Why taking choir kept me from being a Valedictorian: Austin Channell at TEDxColumbus
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- In the spirit of ideas worth spreading, TEDx is a program of local, self-organized events that bring people together to share a TED-like experience. At a TEDx event, TEDTalks video and live speakers combine to spark deep discussion and connection in a small group. These local, self-organized events are branded TEDx, where x = independently organized TED event. The TED Conference provides general guidance for the TEDx program, but individual TEDx events are self-organized.* (*Subject to certain rules and regulations)
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This comes back to the arts blackout day I would like to institute. One day out of the year where theater, music, and art would be 100% unavailable. Radio would be talk radio all day, all pictures would be covered, and all movie theaters would be closed. People don't appreciate things until they can't have it.
My mother was a supervisor of the arts in a K-12 district and I feel that her greatest accomplishment before she left was making sure that all of the arts courses had levels, just like the "academic" classes. In other words: Standard, College Prep, and Honors. In our HS, Honors and AP classes both got a 5 for an A. This allowed everyone to be equal. The music Honors levels classes were tough - make no mistake - very few took them each year, but they were there when she left and remain to this day. Maybe this is something that all schools could start doing.
I had a 3.6 GPA in high school, but being in G/T classes, my GPA was one of the lowest of my peers. It greatly affected my self-esteem. There were a lot of experiences and academic dinners they were invited to but I wasn't. It's weird how this system in place also shuns some students.
Everyone needs to hear this.
This TEDtalk = so much win.
Granted, I was somewhere around 24 in my HS class rank, and from the beginning, I figured that being in choir was more important to me than being valedictorian or even being in the top ten. But SERIOUSLY. This is why I dreaded seeing the guidance counselors and hearing their schpeel about "A-G classes" and "this is what colleges want to see." Mike Rowe also talks about similar problems in "profoundlydisconnected.com/"
He's quite eloquent, has excellent points, well researched. I wonder where he is now. Probably very successful, but more importantly well rounded, better grounded, and happy
Glad to see someone finally speak to this. Taking three choir courses on top of 5 AP classes both senior year semesters took me from top 3 to 16th in my class. I would argue that colleges and (hopefully) most employers do value well-rounded candidates more than those focused purely on academics. They really just need to add the option for arts courses not to count against GPAs if students receive A's in them. Problem solved.
This is an excellent presentation. This really bright young man is a great example for what he is talking about. Hopefully our country's way of doing things will change in the future. Hopefully, education will one day be depoliticized as an issue.
TED is amazing. Learned so much about how to understand how we all inhabit this world of ours.
As a music student who could never jump above the top 25, I can't agree with this more. So, so, so very true.
One of the best TED talks I have had the pleasure of listening to, ever.
This brings up some very good points. As a high school student, I can relate to these problems unfortunately well. The school system is constantly pushing us to be ready for college and want us to do all sorts of things to get into a good college. Furthermore, society as a whole expects us to have out whole lives planned out by the time we graduate. I don't know what I want to do for the rest of my life, I just want to keep learning. It is a tough, competitive world out there, and it scares me.
Extremely insightful !!!!!!! Every educator, parent, and student should see this.
Well said. Academics are important, but the arts, which make us human, are just as important.
Go Austin! So proud of you - a great presentation on an important topic.
Well said, Mr. Channell. Truly, an idea worth spreading.
Wow, America is weird. All my music courses brought my average up! None of this weighting stuff.
And our valedictorian was elected by a vote from the graduating class.
How has this not gone viral yet!?! Educators, artists, drama students, and musicians unite!!!
AMEN. this is fantastic.
Music in my school is huge. I think 9out of the top 10 are in band or chorus. We also have a great music program and if our school tried to pull that on us, there would be am up roar. But what real got to me was the statistic that like 1\3 of the kids going to college were prepared for it and 85% of college kids now have enough anxiety to be diagnosed as mentally I'll in the 30s. Because that's insane. I'm killing myself this year with 4 APs and my only other classes are gym and chorus. If I didn't have chorus, I don't know what I'd do.
Taking AP studio art has been incredibly helpful in ways that I didn't even know at the time in my now marketing career. The concept of drawing, visual spacing, angles, the abstract, and my love for dancing and physical motion and music helped me grow and be creative. This world moves so fast, I wanted to make sure that I was employable, happy and healthy… And I’ve done that.
Excellent presentation -- I am a teacher and the mother of a valedictorian and could not agree more!
Great talk!
This man is brilliant
thank you so much!
I can't express how much I agree with this. As an academically competitive student, high school honestly isn't enjoyable because of all of the AP classes I'm taking. Luckily, band (mainly marching band) keeps me sane and happy, yet fine arts is the very thing that keeps my GPA low compared to everyone else.
Very, VERY well said. As a music teacher, this makes me very happy :)
Very well said!
Arts teaches both collaboration and strong individuality. If you want control of the masses have them sit and do nothing.
Really well done... thank you. You might also look at the underpinnings of GPA, the grading policies of the individual teachers whose assessments contribute to the final grade which is then used comparatively with the grades of students Most of these students were subject to vastly different grading approaches. There is a puzzling acceptance of the validity of the grading, GPA calculation process.
Austin, if you are not already doing competitive speech and debate, you REALLY should.
I think that it’s a mixture of what Hildie said, and what Austin said. I love to dance, however I am a realist and know that my body type and the dance profession is nearly impossible to break into. I majored in communications because I loved marketing but minored in dance and history. I made sure that I was learning a trade that was more readily employable and then kept pursuing my interests because, ill be honest, they just make me happy.
This happened to me way back in 1982. We didn't have 5.0 AP classes, but I took all advanced weighted classes (our Valedictorains graduated with 4.3 or 4.5 or something like that), but finally chose my senior year to sing in choir but had to take basic senior English to make the schedule work. (Did not get to be in choir up to that point because of the schedule). Had a sense then that my well-roundedness was way more important than being Valedictorian. I graduated 13th in my class of 444, but no one remembers that but me. In the bigger life picture, be yourself, pursue your dreams, remember that each milestone is merely that, a milestone on a long journey....
During the presentation the Austin discusses an article in which an MIT admissions officer laments that students are choosing AP's over extracurricular options.
I would appreciate it if Austin (or someone?) could post a link to this article. I've looked and I can't find it. Thank you.
I run track, always star in my schools theater productions, and I work 25 hours a week on average and I manage to get all a's and occasional b's. And I have all honors classes and one so class. I'm a junior and I've had one so class since I was a freshmen and j do believe I am better than the kids who don't do anything but ap classes. But most of the time those kids end up not doing so well in college cause they have to work and gain a lot more responsibilities on their plate and find themselves stuck because they can't juggle everything. I'm in the top 20% of my class, but I'm worried that my efforts just won't be enough. It sucks to say, but most likely... It won't be enough.
I think you have some valid points, and I'm a big believer in the arts and now teach it to high school students, but I think these ideas are still stuck in the "box" you were taught to think in.
I always said that arbitrary systems are actually just that: arbitrary, and therefore should have no bearing on my decisions. I don't have very high grades but I have learned a great deal of mathematics and music
He makes some good points, but students applying to hyper-competitive colleges are EXPECTED to have strong numbers (i.e., GPA and SAT I and II scores). Once you hit a baseline number, the difference between say a 2300 and a 2350, or a 4.8 and a 5.0 (assuming a 4.0 unweighted), is infinitesimal and trivial. At that point, colleges evaluate you holistically, looking at your achievements outside of the classroom. Taking a choir class over an AP class isn't going to mar your application, but taking that extra AP class and not being able to do anything else because of it could. That being said, while it is unfortunate that students and school counselors are focused on quantity to the point of delusion, we should realize that, if you want a chance at an elite university, you're still going to need that high GPA, high SAT in addition to extracurriculars.
I took choir every semester. It allowed me to go to New York, Chicago, Florida, and West Virginia. It taught me much more than many of the "college level classes" I took. I took summer school to open up my schedule more. I took every college level course I could and walked into college with 58 college credit hours. I got A's in every class but because I took EXTRA classes I dropped from 1 in my class to 4th. I lost a scholarship to the guy who got 2nd. A full ride matters a bit.
I had a 4.0 all throughout high school and took tons of AP classes. But I also took chorus, musical theatre, and at one point music technology also. So I had no shot at being valedictorian.
I agree with adding 10 points on a 100 point scale for AP classes. They're hard, and we should encourage kids to take them. But 90-110 should all still count as 4.0.
My public school system has a different GPA system. You average the number of class one takes with their grades in those classes(A=4, B=3, etc). Such as person with 5 A's and 2 B's would have a GPA of 3.7. For every honors/AP class you make above a B in, you get an extra .025 added to your total GPA(Weighted GPA). Although this system does not penalize the other classes, it makes it extremely hard to get a 5.0 GPA. Only one person has done that, and she took around 27 AP/Honors classes her high school life. She was also not involved in any extracurricular activity.
Yes yes yes, a million times, yes!!!
Current senior here. This took me 3 whole years of high school to realize, and many of my peers are still stuck in the obsession... I just hope I won't have to see my kids deal with this ridiculous system.
Finally found it!
They applaud, the problem still exsist
This is so true. Our school doesn't rank us but if they did the two smartest kids who have the same GPA in my grade wouldn't be valedictorian because they take band. At least the way our class is they would become salutatorian but it is not the same.
Mini ted talks
This is a great point.
My problem was that my chorus teacher (don't get me started on the pathetic nature of my high school's only "choir" class) gave me a D- because I was absent the school day that they pushed the piano down the school hallways and sang off-key during fourth period.
(And yes, I did have a chance at hitting an academic honor in my class . . . )
I wish I could think of a funny comment. Oh well. Great speech, naturally. Austin frickin' Channell...
I had the same problem in high school. I took band as a study hall
Problem is arts classes can vary in rigor quite a lot and may not necessarily be at a college lite level like AP/IB/AICE classes.
But in high school I made sure that my grades were good, I was captain of track and cross country, and I took AP studio art. I basically did it all, but i had a great time and while my GPA was not near the top, I got into a great college.
GPA is overrated. I've never had any employers say in my college job interviews, "You don't have the skills in x or y that we're looking for, but with that superb GPA we'll take you anyways."
Yeah but they look at the college you went to
I hate to say this, but this was the case back in the 70's when I graduated high school. Our AP classes were weighted the same. Our valedictorian didn't take any extra classes. I took orchestra. I was the salutatorian.
I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm taking Journalism, so I write for the newspaper, but it's only a 4.0 scale. I write a news story every week and get penalized for it, while some people take AP Engineering just for the 5.0 scale. It's the same way with my theatre class, and it's ridiculous.
I assure you that I completely grasped the point; in fact, I wrote a small essay on the point to a friend of mine who sent me the link to the video. The comment I made above was intended as a joke.
If I remember correctly, by the end of my H.S. years 1996-97, if you had been in band, orchestra or choir for 4 years, you would receive honors credit for it (weighted grading). Soon after I left, my high school started to offer AP music theory. I'm pretty sure that was besides band (for me), but, I would've taken it. This is not really the answer, but at least it was trying to address this good talk's problems.
This is the worst travesty to justice, I've ever heard.
The other side of the issue is that students can earn Valedictorian status taking simpleton classes like Culinary Arts, Computer Applications, and the like... our school did not have weighted grading and because of it, we had like 12 Valedictorians and 2 Saludatorians, and not many of them were extraordinary students. This is the same reason the unweighted male GPA's are lower: because AP/Honors courses consist of a male majority
Wonderful subject, and you made some excellent points - you seemed really nervous though. Next time you get on stage - constantly remind yourself that you are a badass with 18,000 views on your TED Talk.
I dont think I've ever agreed with anyone more.
One could point the obvious out to this guy and say that it doesn't matter if you get valedictorian either...lol He should have added that to the list at the end. ;) Looking back at my high school though, the people in the top 10 were all in either chorus or band.
"Just because they can do something doesn't mean they should" - AMEN! This mentality has always confused me, but I suppose it's being enforced by the system.
Only if the college or your major lets you - or accepts it. My son had received 5's and the science dept said nope -
Yo yes this is my problem. This is why I'm not doing choir next year.
I don't think the point was what not to major in or even pursue as a career. I'm a music teacher and hardly ever tell kids to major in music. That isn't the point. It is about enrichment and what the arts can bring to everyone.
That wasnt the point of his argument, his point is that we are obssessed with standard education over all other aspects of life, when life has more to do with school for a student.
The point of honors credit is to inflate your GPA.
This is important for the average student, who is trying to get into a good college. The schools are strategically implementing policies that help ALL their students, at the expense of the top 1% of students that are already getting into great colleges.
For instance, more high schools are refusing to rank their students. Rankings help the top 10% of students, and harm the rest. So by refusing to release rankings, they give a boost to the students who need it, and perform a minor disservice to students who will do well in spite of it.
THIS IS GOOD.
However, the general idea of the talk is sound.
A bit pitchy, but overall a solid showing Mr. Chanel.
My school is similar even though it's a middle school but you can have all A's in your academic classes and if you do choir you get much better grades than you would if you had A's in all your classes and if you did band but your grades wouldn't be as good. My school thinks the choir is better than band which also happens in the high school. It has been embedded into the brains of choir kids so they make fun of us band kids.
Did the guy who got 2nd get to go to New York, Chicago, Florida, and West Virginia? How much of a price are you willing to put on those experiences?
That's not the point of his presentation. He's just showing how the current generation, strives to achieve to the point of obsession. Most students do not see AP classes as a mean to save money but rather as a means for college admission. Students know that good AP scores will higher their chances at a better school. Students are just focusing more and more on grades rather their actual strengths. This is the consequence of blind ambition that will be harmful in the long run.
The crazy thing about this is he doesn't mention that being involved in the arts will make you a better student in other areas as well. Music is constant problem solving.
This is ridiculous! When did this start?
Did it not bother anyone else that he didn't use a/an correctly in his talk.
Maybe they shoulda offered AP Choir
AP classes are not always harder than fine arts.
EXACTLY!!!
I agree that it absolutely sucks that taking a study hall is better for your GPA than choir, but I think this kid is kinda ignoring the truths that don't suit his argument.
He bashes the theory behind AP classes, says that they're thwarting an education in the arts, but he completely ignores the fact that there are such classes as AP Music Theory, AP Art History, and *three different types* of AP Studio Art. There are literally more AP Art classes than AP Math classes. Sure, taking choir isn't the same weight as taking AP Calculus, because taking Grade-Level Algebra I is not the same weight as taking AP Photography.
Also, it is certainly possible to take a balance of classes, Choir and Video Production along with AP Biology and AP English Literature, and come out as valedictorian. Even then, class rank is one facet of life. The fastest swimmer in the area is probably going to get the gold medal in backstroke, even if other swimmers are also good at soccer. It doesn't mean anything is wrong with the system, it just means that society shouldn't value one accolade as the end-all and be-all.
And I don't think they do. Colleges, as highlighted by the quote from MIT, don't care about valedictorians nearly as much as people think they do. Every single admissions seminar I've been to has explicitly stated that they look at the student holistically. As in every single counselor I've listened to has actually said the word "holistically."
I think Austin exaggerated some problems, and ignored the solutions already in place.
+Lexi Galantino I'm a Music Major in college right now and I would have killed for an AP Music Theory class when I was in high school but that would have cost money...
+Trista Noelle I don't think I'm quite understanding your point here. All AP tests charge a fee unless the student has a waiver. It's not different between STEM and non-STEM APs.
I'm not talking about AP tests. I'm talking about the funds for a a school to even have an AP class. It costs money to hold any AP class. The teacher has to go to special training for the AP course, in some cases a new teacher might actually have to be hired. Then there's materials and curriculum's that need to be paid for. Every AP course that a high school has costs thousands of dollars, so of course they're not going to pick AP Music Theory or Art as one of the options.
Lexi Galantino what if your zchool doesn't offer any AP arts classes? i go to a high school that just last year got one AP class, AP US history the first ap class ever offered at that school. My school doesn't have many students or much money and what little support the school gives to its students is in the form of sports. what do I do if I want to take AP music? I don't, it's not an option.
avid*
I wish that today's school system was based heavily off of this talk. Taking a career in music is automatically seen as less successful than working to the point of insanity on arguably meaningless tasks to achieve the GPA required to even enter a certain college. This in and of itself makes me sick.
The scholarship that he beat me out for put him in a research group which has allowed him to publish a scientific paper. How much of a price are you willing to put on that experience, when you are striving to become a scientist?
Easy solution: offer AP art courses.
Why are you determining your own educational value by what the school tells you? Why does being a valedictorian matter? Why are you allowing your success to be measured by GPAs? I think the bigger problem here is the standardization of education, it's not what you know it's what your score is. Not what you learn in college, it's where you went and what degree you had. I understand the reality that GPA and what college you go to does matter, but I think that is the problem.
If a school penalizes a student's GPA for taking an art over study hall, that's on the student and the school for bad calculations, not on the "system." If it really mattered to the student he could petition to not count his music class into his GPA (i.e. schedule it as a "study hall"). Many colleges do something similar with ensemble classes (e.g. mass choir, concert band), sometimes even giving a 1 hour tuition-free credit to non-majors that take ensembles as a way to encourage participation.
After age 19, no one cares who is valedictorian. Really not that important.
And if it is that important to you, you should know how to work the system and take the classes you need.
First :D
While I agree that an additional class like arts shouldn't pull down a GPA, he lost me at "subpar" when referring to his choir class grade as the equivalent of a B. Sub par? Seriously? There is far too much focus on grades and competition for valedictorian. Kids need to understand that there is so much more to success than GPA. He will get into a great colleague regardless of this perceived "flaw" in the system. To suggest that he's at some major disadvantage is plain silly...and not very smart.
His complaints and suggestions are often confused and at cross purposes, made for effect, not logical coherence. For example, he laments that most entering college students are not adequately prepared, but then he complains that some high schools (and U.S. News) push AP classes too much. Sorry, but you can’t have it both ways. Extracurriculars are great, but they also have “opportunity costs.” Every hour spent on them is an hour not spent broadening your education to psychology or biology or human geography. You can’t have it both ways. (And students seeking admission to elite universities know full well the importance of extracurriculars.) Yes, it would be nice if our high school lives were less anxious, but then we as a society will ultimately lose out internationally to those countries where the students are more willing to sacrifice. Again, you can’t have it both ways. And there are much simpler solutions to some of his gripes. Our high school allows students to take a couple of courses pass/fail, for example, so that their GPAs are not penalized for taking choir or art (or gym). And being a former valedictorian myself, I was not upset when my daughter’s high school simply dropped announcing a valedictorian.
Sid, do you know how well AP students do in college compared with non-AP students? That would be a good study.
+Sid Nelson Awesome. We can start playing psychology, biology, and geography lectures on movies, radios, and sport events. Take all music out of your life and see how you feel about it.
+Sam Vimes
Ummm, I didn’t say to take all music out students’ lives, did I? (I kinda remember saying “Extracurriculars are great,” and “students seeking admission to elite universities know full well the importance of extracurriculars.”)
However, TED talks should be about advice, not bitching. Just allow each high-schooler to take one elective class pass/fail each year. Problem mostly solved. My own daughter had eight years of piano. She got two high school pass/fail course credits of music for her time spent independently studying piano and electric guitar. Fixing mis-aligned incentive structures doesn’t have to be rocket science.
+Sid Nelson My annoyance is more at the insinuation that music isn't academic. I'm not directing this at you, because it's much larger than you. There is a general devaluation of music in our schools. Some of the greatest minds of our time have said if you want children to perform better in all fields, they need to learn the lessons taught in music.
+Donald Tinney
A study by the College Board found that 56% of AP-Exam-takers graduated from college in four years compared with 36% of non-AP students. Moreover, those who did the best on AP tests (a score of “5”) were twice as likely to graduate from college in 4 years compared to those who did the worst (score of “1”), 72% versus 36%. It could be that AP-takers are more likely to enter college with more college credits, or it could be that AP students have already been exposed to college-level work and are therefore more comfortable with managing this work. Or it could be that some of them are brighter. Most likely it is a combination of all these reasons.Search for: “Are AP Students More Likely to Graduate from College on Time?”
Umm umm umm umm
This is a very closed minded argument that ignores the larger picture.
One more reason to homeschool. You can't fix a system that is so backwards....
You're right!
Except being valedictorian at home school means nothing and colleges don't care much for homeschooling
Actually the opposite is true in my experience!
Because if you major in the arts or humanities as I DID you are not relevant and it is a hobby insofar as getting a PhD. I have more education that any lawyer or doctor including neurosurgeons....i worked much harder than either as going to grad school is harder for you don't go as a 'class' you are very much on your own with your own topic. Lonely. I loved it. Not fair that I dont command $500 an hour or the $25K bill for late husband's one hour brain surgery. This is WHY you lost.
you need to do so much less like just stop please
4:37 This is obviously misleading. The kid who skips music to take another AP to become valedictorian is not very likely to become a kid placed in remedial classes. Instead, they are the kids who are taking and acing the hardest classes on campus. So attributing decline in college readiness to a culture of "appearance of success" isn't that accurate.
No one cares about your high school GPA after you get to college. I think you could explain to a college why you "failed" by getting a 4.83 instead of a 5.00... The system is fine.
that's not what the argument is here...