Pay attention to the orientation of the plus sign at the tip of the bullet when loading the magazine. Try loading with plus sign up and down, not turned to form an X.
I have had trouble shooting the Bodyguard 2.0 with Underwood Extreme Defender and some hollow points misfeeding. If you look closely at the part of the lower feed ramp that is attached to the frame, you will likely see a small ridge at the end of the ramp. Those bullets will sometimes catch on that ridge, causing a misfeed. Every one of these guns I have seen on UA-cam where I could see clearly inside the breach has that small ridge at the top of the lower feed ramp. Someone at Smith and Wesson got the machining tolerances off a bit. Bullets with rounded ends will usually feed without a problem. Bullets with more blunt ends like Extreme Defenders and some hollow points like the Sierra ones I have will sometimes get stuck on that ridge. I fixed mine by grinding off that ridge and polishing both feed ramps using a Dremel. My Bodyguard 2.0 will now feed any kind of ammunition I load into it without any problems. The ridge is quite small. You have to look closely to see it, but it is enough to cause problems. If you shoot a few rounds of almost any kind of bullets though the gun, you will see copper accumulating on the ridge.
Thanks for this detail. Makes sense. I checked mine out and at this point I don't have the brass catching there nor a line, however, I have polished both feed ramps significantly since this video. I still have issues with this round but it's greatly reduced, last I tested I had 1 malfunction in 40 rounds. I've since buffed it again. I"m using Fitz, a dremel and a polishing tool in the dremel. But it seems this dual feed ramp system is giving a few people issues.
Lots of my friends and leo partners are now carrying the bodyguard 2.0...so your defense ammo videos are VERY relevant...im sending them to your channel...please keep up the GREAT work!!! 🇺🇸 👍
I'm sorry to say that my particular Bodyguard 2.0 has feeding issues with the xtreme defender rounds. My p365 380 has no problems with it but the Bodyguard is not reliable at all with it.
Dang. Mine is having issues too. I did polish both feed ramps and it is now doing better but not perfect yet. I've polished some more but need more testing. Thanks for reporting this!
I hate to say this, but I am glad my bodyguard 2.0. it's not having any of the issues that some other videos are having. I have a 725 rounds through my gun and not 1 hiccup other than me riding the slide stop. and I carry only ball ammo and For deep penetration because it is 380. I also bought another 12 round magazine and it runs flawless.
Thanks so much Ron! The tricky part with 380’s is finding a round that does what it should AND works in your gun! Hahaha. Almost like old 1911’s and hollow point reliability.
I carry this ammo in my Ruger LCPII. It's 100% reliable in it and it shoots well for me. I really like the grips on your Beretta. I love the S&W Bodyguard 2.0 except for the giant notch for the rear site. I hope S&W releases an alternate site as an option as I'd like to have one.
Thanks Frank. Yah it's so weird, I carry it in my kimber sometimes and I often carry them in my 9mm guns so I really like them but from previous testing I knew it didn't work in my Berretta and I'm just frustrated it wont run in my BG2.0. I hear every time I put a video about how this round works great in their BG2.0 so makes me think it's just my gun. Frustrating. I've said it before, maybe I'll take action, but I need to try polishing my feed ramp. Agreed, the rear sight is VERY wide. At least I hope for an aftermarket. With how well I hear this gun is selling, and what a great gun it is, I suspect someone will do it soon.
@@triggerbarPhD There's lots of videos available that show polishing of the feed ramp. Personally, I do not use a Dremel. I like to polish them by hand with Flitz. Doing it by hand eliminates the chance of actually changing the angle of the ramp and just makes the ramp more smooth allowing the bullet easier access to the chamber. With this method if it helps the gun become more reliable great, if not it hasn't hurt anything.
@@frankbrowning328 thanks. Yes I’ve done it a few times just need to actually spend the time and do it in this gun!! Just had my fitz out polishing a new trigger job on a cz I have. Another reason I haven’t jumped is I still feel the federal hydra shok deep still might be a better round and that runs great in my gun.
@@triggerbarPhD I do love Flitz. I use it on guns and also for all sorts of stuff around the house. It's made in Waukesha, WI just 20 minutes from my house and the people there are very friendly and helpful. Sometimes it's hard to find and I've been able to just drive there and buy it from them. Yes, that Federal round is interesting. Maybe well see something on that in the future?
Thanks for the review! I load my LCP Max with these rounds and it seems decent. I purchased it for "deep concealment," but practically speaking I never actually need to do that. Still fun at the range though! The BG2.0 is almost certainly an improvement over the LCP
Thanks! I end up carrying it a lot just because I need that deep concealment more but man I wish these were reliable in this gun. That’s my knock against the ruger, the ruger runs everything.
@triggerbarPhD it's definitely not a particularly good gun. I've heard other people have that issue but it's been fine for me. Always groups low though no matter what I do
Maybe you have plans to test it later, but if you have chosen .380 for deep concealment, and not for recoil reduction, the +P version of this round is a no brainer. Would have liked to have seen the 2 side by side, rather than using your gel space for a bunch of guns that no one is going to buy anymore.
@@triggerbarPhD I think thats a more realistic test range for short barrel .380s. 👍 And I agree with the part regarding clogged or unexpanded hollow points always having more penetration. I suppose there’s a point to testing them with the barrier cloth in order to determine which JHPs will expand reliability, as well as how deep they will or won’t penetrate. I believe that’s the concept (but not always the reality) of the Critical Defense design, reliable expansion and penetration, the elusive holy grail of the defensive .380.
Check the lower feed ramp in the frame of the gun, a lot of these are shipping with a noticeable burr on the top lip which causes feeding issues on anything but standard ball ammo. I knocked mine down with a diamond file and polished it and it solved all of my feeding issues.
Awesome, thanks for that! It’s really just a couple of self defense rounds that I’ve had issues with (this one of them). Most have worked. But thanks for setting in on the issue, I’ll look closer at that lower feed ramp for sure!!
Have had the worst luck with all brands and styles of ammo I have used in my BG 2.0 except for Magtech 95gr FMJ. Underwood is my normal go to, but after 1 round I’m jammed every time
@talega1 yes for sure. So far my two favorite self defense rounds that I have found are federal hydra shok deep and Fiocchi defense dynamics. But all regular FMJ rounds run fine for me!
Underwood also makes a "Platinum" version of this round. Same exact round that you tested, only has a gray coating. It's supposed to add lubricity which is supposed to help with feed issues, and cut down on barrel wear. Maybe the Platium version might run better in your Bodyguard?
that's a good point. I have the platinum rounds in 9mm but not in 380. I did polish the feed ramp it and is running better but I did a good test of 40 rounds and I had 1 malfunction sadly. I've polished it some more so hoping my next test it will pass! I've got videos on the +p version coming out in the next couple of weeks and the 90 gr. xtp +p from underwood right behind it.
So far my Bodyguard is 100% with all ammo including Underwood. many different kinds except flat nose. I have not tried that as of yet. Around 250 to 300 mix rounds total. Stay safe.
My bodyguard 2.0 had multiple failures to feed but only with Fiocchi ammo. This gun is really weird. I have about 200 rounds through it and it's loosing up some (slide and loading magazines). Any other ball tip brands went fine. It seems to be very picky. Just as an aside, my Ruger LCP Max with it's looser tolerances feeds anything. I dunno....I'm not carrying this yet for self defense.
I’ve always used the 68 grain underwood in my gen 1 bodyguard. I’ve had many issues in my 2.0. I’m about to run a couple hundred fmj rounds to break in the pistol and try them again. Until then I’ll be carrying gold dot.
Thanks Grey Shooter! Yes it really is. But, I’d for sure test it in your BG2.0 as I’ve heard many other owners saying it works great in their gun. 🤷♂️
Last comment got deleted. Apparently because I used a DC phrase that antigun UA-cam reviewers don’t understand. Would have liked to have seen standard pressure and +P versions of this ammo side by side out of the bodyguard rather than the same round through guns that the bodyguard made obsolete.
Two points. First the manual says not to use +p ammo in this gun. That said, I’ll still test it. I don’t want to shoot it a lot but I understand why people want to see it and shoot it but I always say that so people make their own informed decision. Second, just highlighting why this gun is so good. For example, to my knowledge others aren’t covering that the 1:10 twist is making a big difference with the BG2.0. This highlights that. I’ll get to the +p though.
Awesome testing👍 I saw another fluted round that may have some feeding advantages. The Norma NXD is a copper and polymer matrix that is a non expanding defensive load with the same theory. It appears to have smoother edges than the Underwood projectiles have. I can't say for sure, but the Norma NXD appear to be a casting of some kind where the Underwood appears to be cut or stamped, resulting in smoother, more rounded edges on the Norma. My BG 2.0 has ran both with no issues, but I could see the bullet itself make a difference in feeding maybe.🤷♂
@@Disastrous.Affect great idea DA. I’ve seen those before but I haven’t had a chance to try them. I have some rounds directly made by Lehigh Defense I will try in the near future and some solid copper S&B ammo on tap (also some G2 ammo but that’s a hollow point). I also want to see if there isn’t something in my feed ramp causing the issue. But see, this is what mean that this round runs great for others and as such is a great round.
I love your videos. Short, to the point and informative. As for the Extreme Defender bullets, I'm not sure what to think. According to what I've read, in order for hydrostatic shock to cause tissue damage, the bullet must be travelling at over 2200 fps. That would seem to indicate that the "wound channel" we see in ballistics gel from this type of "external hollow point" does not represent damage to actual living flesh. That would then seem to mean that these bullets are no better than FMJs (other than the fact that they stop quicker and don't over penetrate). Yes, they do dump energy quicker than an FMJ, but other than what the bullet actually hits, does that energy dump cause any actual damage in living tissue?
Living thanks for much for this thoughtful addition. That’s the $$$ question right there. I have seen videos with folks using 9mm, 40 S&W, and 10mm rounds in hogs where the tissue damage in an animal is significantly more. But…as you point out, those rounds are much closer (and with 10mm over) to rifle speed. Some swear by these and say the proof is there, and others say like you it’s just gel. This gel is a simulation of a simulation of real life. They claim it mimics real gel perfectly but I’ve seen videos disproving that. I’d also argued that the famous meat target (which I love) isn’t perfect because that’s meat that doesn’t have the blood in it any more. Sigh. And to make matters worse these rounds haven’t been around enough to really have cadaver studies, so we are left with these guesses. I will point at the army recently picking black hills to make 9mm ammo for them that looks like it has these Lehigh defense bullets in them. Interesting? Or the army just testing things. What I can say is other than cost, I’d like these for areas I can’t use a hollow point. And if you are worried about over penetration of the 380 or other round perhaps this is better because those flutes do slow it down. Finally the big question is around the 380acp round which is frankly too slow. What self defense round should you use with a slow cartridge. What I believe is you want something with great penetration but not over penetration. Expansion is great but most important is getting deep enough to hit what you are shooting at. In other words I don’t have the answer either 😂🤣😂🤷♂️
Another good one TB. Every time I see Lehigh bullets, I think wow, but fairly often there are comments about something that might have done a bit better, or could have been a bit different. On the other hand, you walk the walk and bring it to us. At just a bit over two hundred ft-lbs., there’s a common thought(assumption) about people using FMJs, because of penetration problems. Maybe, stick one or two of those in gel to see what happens. But, this isn’t a request, just comment. I think great shooting. If I stuck aim points 4-5 inches apart, things would get mixed up, more often than not. Lol, I think you should burn up six or eight fifty buck boxes of ammo from the hip🤣.
Hahahaha thanks Craig. Yah all these aint cheap and the gel at $90 a block…I try to do as many different ammos in the same gel block and only get 2 boxes for testing. If I were in this to make money or break even I’d be an idiot. 😂🤣. So I do what I can. I agree these rounds are highly debated. I for sure want to compare them to FMJ and some flat nose rounds. I’ll get to that after I get though more of the “defense rounds”. Many people who carry 380, carry FMJ for these reasons. Thanks Craig!!
a gel is good to see how the bullet expands, but any gel test should consider a human body that can further stop the bullet travel once it expands and starts interacting with the bone structure.
I have a BG 2.0 and not had any feeding issues. But I have had feeding issues with my old TCP. Try a similar fluted round from G9 Defense. It runs more reliable. I love the BG 2.0 so much I made a leather holster to carry on my hip. I made a video short on my channel of the holsters.
Did a couple bullets flip around in the gel? That's something I have routinely seen in tests all over the internet and that's the biggest reason I won't use these bullets. We know that the flutes must be travelling forward in order to do work, and they very often fail to do this in testing. I put my faith in Hornady's XTP and FTX bullets for .380.
1) there were other bullets in the gel. Again, that’s on me but I just can’t afford so many new gel blocks. 2) these absolutely tumble. In my opinion tumbling is good as long as you get deep enough penetration. You are right about the flutes but also when a bullet tumbles it’s doing wider damage like a hollow point. I just don’t know if that is consistent in the real world. I’ve got the FTX coming up! I love them for 9mm and more but they seemed borderline in 380 ACP as their penetration was not super great. Penetration in gel is a whole other rabbit hole to go down as to how important that is.
@triggerbarPhD Reusing blocks is understandable, I've seen how much those cost. I didn’t want to jump to conclusions. I personally don't find tumbling to be desirable for a bullet that costs as much as the Lehigh. It reminds me of the old Remington 88 gr JHPs. Sometimes, they would expand a little, but most of the time, they would act like ball. That was acceptable for the time because some .380s wouldn't feed any other JHP and the 88s didn't cost more than FMJ. As always, thank you for the videos. I'll be looking forward to your findings on the Hornady loads.
@ got it and that makes sense. Hahaha thanks for understanding. I tried to get 3 tests out of these blocks before I clean them and remelt. But sometimes I have to throw out so much it’s like 2:1 on new blocks to reheated blocks. That was my thought on the JHPs. Thanks again!!
@@triggerbarPhD I've heard it called the churro of death, the way it opens and cuts through. I'm not entirely sure of the twist rate on my 84bb but it would be interesting to see it out of the 1:10 barrel.
@@Millzspec I’ll give it a shot. Looks like it gets 8” of penetration but maybe that’s enough. I always look for rounds that get 12” but dang that petal is nasty. That would do a LOT of damage!
@@triggerbarPhD thats always been a concern for me as well. Like you say with bones and tendons and muscle in the way that 8 inches could quickly become 4 or less. Look forward to more of your testing!
@@wastool that’s what I’m carrying. I have a federal punch testing coming up and I compare it with the Hydra Shok deep with it too. And I’m still carrying hydra Shok deep!
I’ve done some love on them. They do better in more recent tests but the bg2.0 still struggles a bit with underwood extreme defender even after polishing both feed ramps with flitz and a dremmel!
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Pay attention to the orientation of the plus sign at the tip of the bullet when loading the magazine. Try loading with plus sign up and down, not turned to form an X.
I’m interesting. I’ll have to try that again in the future
I have had trouble shooting the Bodyguard 2.0 with Underwood Extreme Defender and some hollow points misfeeding. If you look closely at the part of the lower feed ramp that is attached to the frame, you will likely see a small ridge at the end of the ramp. Those bullets will sometimes catch on that ridge, causing a misfeed. Every one of these guns I have seen on UA-cam where I could see clearly inside the breach has that small ridge at the top of the lower feed ramp. Someone at Smith and Wesson got the machining tolerances off a bit. Bullets with rounded ends will usually feed without a problem. Bullets with more blunt ends like Extreme Defenders and some hollow points like the Sierra ones I have will sometimes get stuck on that ridge. I fixed mine by grinding off that ridge and polishing both feed ramps using a Dremel. My Bodyguard 2.0 will now feed any kind of ammunition I load into it without any problems. The ridge is quite small. You have to look closely to see it, but it is enough to cause problems. If you shoot a few rounds of almost any kind of bullets though the gun, you will see copper accumulating on the ridge.
Thanks for this detail. Makes sense. I checked mine out and at this point I don't have the brass catching there nor a line, however, I have polished both feed ramps significantly since this video. I still have issues with this round but it's greatly reduced, last I tested I had 1 malfunction in 40 rounds. I've since buffed it again. I"m using Fitz, a dremel and a polishing tool in the dremel. But it seems this dual feed ramp system is giving a few people issues.
Ty for the video 👍🏽
Thank-you!!
Lots of my friends and leo partners are now carrying the bodyguard 2.0...so your defense ammo videos are VERY relevant...im sending them to your channel...please keep up the GREAT work!!! 🇺🇸 👍
Wow that’s awesome Kevin!! Thanks a ton!! I’ve got 3 more already to go over the next 2 weeks! Sig is coming up on Thursday!
@triggerbarPhD thanks so much trigger...much appreciated 🙏 my friend
I'm sorry to say that my particular Bodyguard 2.0 has feeding issues with the xtreme defender rounds. My p365 380 has no problems with it but the Bodyguard is not reliable at all with it.
Dang. Mine is having issues too. I did polish both feed ramps and it is now doing better but not perfect yet. I've polished some more but need more testing. Thanks for reporting this!
I hate to say this, but I am glad my bodyguard 2.0. it's not having any of the issues that some other videos are having. I have a 725 rounds through my gun and not 1 hiccup other than me riding the slide stop. and I carry only ball ammo and For deep penetration because it is 380. I also bought another 12 round magazine and it runs flawless.
That is awesome!
Terrific testing! You have me considering a .380 now. Very interesting ballistics. 🤠👍
Thanks so much Ron! The tricky part with 380’s is finding a round that does what it should AND works in your gun! Hahaha. Almost like old 1911’s and hollow point reliability.
thanks for video, the bodyguard 2.0 has definitely peeked my interest.
Hi Ram! Thanks yes, it's a good one for sure. If you haven't held one try one at a shop sometime. Fantastic ergonomics.
I carry this ammo in my Ruger LCPII. It's 100% reliable in it and it shoots well for me. I really like the grips on your Beretta. I love the S&W Bodyguard 2.0 except for the giant notch for the rear site. I hope S&W releases an alternate site as an option as I'd like to have one.
Thanks Frank. Yah it's so weird, I carry it in my kimber sometimes and I often carry them in my 9mm guns so I really like them but from previous testing I knew it didn't work in my Berretta and I'm just frustrated it wont run in my BG2.0. I hear every time I put a video about how this round works great in their BG2.0 so makes me think it's just my gun. Frustrating. I've said it before, maybe I'll take action, but I need to try polishing my feed ramp.
Agreed, the rear sight is VERY wide. At least I hope for an aftermarket. With how well I hear this gun is selling, and what a great gun it is, I suspect someone will do it soon.
@@triggerbarPhD There's lots of videos available that show polishing of the feed ramp. Personally, I do not use a Dremel. I like to polish them by hand with Flitz. Doing it by hand eliminates the chance of actually changing the angle of the ramp and just makes the ramp more smooth allowing the bullet easier access to the chamber. With this method if it helps the gun become more reliable great, if not it hasn't hurt anything.
@@frankbrowning328 thanks. Yes I’ve done it a few times just need to actually spend the time and do it in this gun!! Just had my fitz out polishing a new trigger job on a cz I have. Another reason I haven’t jumped is I still feel the federal hydra shok deep still might be a better round and that runs great in my gun.
@@triggerbarPhD I do love Flitz. I use it on guns and also for all sorts of stuff around the house. It's made in Waukesha, WI just 20 minutes from my house and the people there are very friendly and helpful. Sometimes it's hard to find and I've been able to just drive there and buy it from them. Yes, that Federal round is interesting. Maybe well see something on that in the future?
What do you use flitz with a rag????@@frankbrowning328
Thanks for the review! I load my LCP Max with these rounds and it seems decent. I purchased it for "deep concealment," but practically speaking I never actually need to do that. Still fun at the range though! The BG2.0 is almost certainly an improvement over the LCP
Thanks! I end up carrying it a lot just because I need that deep concealment more but man I wish these were reliable in this gun. That’s my knock against the ruger, the ruger runs everything.
@triggerbarPhD it may be the goofy rattling of the LCP Max that everyone complains about. Loose tolerance lets it handle everything perhaps
I had one and for me it just was painful to shoot. It kept pinching my trigger finger. Maybe just that gun.
@triggerbarPhD it's definitely not a particularly good gun. I've heard other people have that issue but it's been fine for me. Always groups low though no matter what I do
Thanks for the review on this TBP! This seems like a great round. I'll see if it runs in my Bodyguard 2.0!
Awesome! Let me know how it goes.
Maybe you have plans to test it later, but if you have chosen .380 for deep concealment, and not for recoil reduction, the +P version of this round is a no brainer. Would have liked to have seen the 2 side by side, rather than using your gel space for a bunch of guns that no one is going to buy anymore.
Great demo. 👍How far away from the gel block are you in this video? Thanks!
Thanks! Only about 3 yards.
@@triggerbarPhD I think thats a more realistic test range for short barrel .380s. 👍 And I agree with the part regarding clogged or unexpanded hollow points always having more penetration. I suppose there’s a point to testing them with the barrier cloth in order to determine which JHPs will expand reliability, as well as how deep they will or won’t penetrate. I believe that’s the concept (but not always the reality) of the Critical Defense design, reliable expansion and penetration, the elusive holy grail of the defensive .380.
Check the lower feed ramp in the frame of the gun, a lot of these are shipping with a noticeable burr on the top lip which causes feeding issues on anything but standard ball ammo. I knocked mine down with a diamond file and polished it and it solved all of my feeding issues.
Awesome, thanks for that! It’s really just a couple of self defense rounds that I’ve had issues with (this one of them). Most have worked. But thanks for setting in on the issue, I’ll look closer at that lower feed ramp for sure!!
Have had the worst luck with all brands and styles of ammo I have used in my BG 2.0 except for Magtech 95gr FMJ. Underwood is my normal go to, but after 1 round I’m jammed every time
Dang that sucks. I did just polish my feed ramp yesterday. I'm gonna retry this and see if it made a difference.
Send that shit back bruh
under ext penetrator ran in sw380 well; (doesn't in others)
Glad to hear it works for you!
@@triggerbarPhD I still will probably not use them.....maybe standard rounds are better?
@talega1 yes for sure. So far my two favorite self defense rounds that I have found are federal hydra shok deep and Fiocchi defense dynamics. But all regular FMJ rounds run fine for me!
Underwood also makes a "Platinum" version of this round. Same exact round that you tested, only has a gray coating. It's supposed to add lubricity which is supposed to help with feed issues, and cut down on barrel wear.
Maybe the Platium version might run better in your Bodyguard?
that's a good point. I have the platinum rounds in 9mm but not in 380. I did polish the feed ramp it and is running better but I did a good test of 40 rounds and I had 1 malfunction sadly. I've polished it some more so hoping my next test it will pass! I've got videos on the +p version coming out in the next couple of weeks and the 90 gr. xtp +p from underwood right behind it.
Right on, man. Hopefully, you're good.
If not, spend the few extra bucks for the Platinum .380s and see how that goes.
So far my Bodyguard is 100% with all ammo including Underwood. many different kinds except flat nose. I have not tried that as of yet. Around 250 to 300 mix rounds total. Stay safe.
That’s great to hear thanks for sharing!!
My bodyguard 2.0 had multiple failures to feed but only with Fiocchi ammo. This gun is really weird. I have about 200 rounds through it and it's loosing up some (slide and loading magazines). Any other ball tip brands went fine. It seems to be very picky. Just as an aside, my Ruger LCP Max with it's looser tolerances feeds anything. I dunno....I'm not carrying this yet for self defense.
Yah you have to find a round it works with. Some people have no issues with any rounds. I’m sure it’s tolerances…
I’ve always used the 68 grain underwood in my gen 1 bodyguard. I’ve had many issues in my 2.0. I’m about to run a couple hundred fmj rounds to break in the pistol and try them again. Until then I’ll be carrying gold dot.
Seems like a good idea. I just polished my feed ramps, I’ll see if that makes a difference.
Good test, Trigger Bar. It's a shame the Underwood isn't more reliable in the BG 2.0. 👊👍🇺🇲
Thanks Grey Shooter! Yes it really is. But, I’d for sure test it in your BG2.0 as I’ve heard many other owners saying it works great in their gun. 🤷♂️
Works great in my Bodyguard 2.0 and my choice for edc
Last comment got deleted. Apparently because I used a DC phrase that antigun UA-cam reviewers don’t understand.
Would have liked to have seen standard pressure and +P versions of this ammo side by side out of the bodyguard rather than the same round through guns that the bodyguard made obsolete.
Two points. First the manual says not to use +p ammo in this gun. That said, I’ll still test it. I don’t want to shoot it a lot but I understand why people want to see it and shoot it but I always say that so people make their own informed decision.
Second, just highlighting why this gun is so good. For example, to my knowledge others aren’t covering that the 1:10 twist is making a big difference with the BG2.0. This highlights that. I’ll get to the +p though.
Awesome testing👍
I saw another fluted round that may have some feeding advantages. The Norma NXD is a copper and polymer matrix that is a non expanding defensive load with the same theory. It appears to have smoother edges than the Underwood projectiles have. I can't say for sure, but the Norma NXD appear to be a casting of some kind where the Underwood appears to be cut or stamped, resulting in smoother, more rounded edges on the Norma.
My BG 2.0 has ran both with no issues, but I could see the bullet itself make a difference in feeding maybe.🤷♂
@@Disastrous.Affect great idea DA. I’ve seen those before but I haven’t had a chance to try them. I have some rounds directly made by Lehigh Defense I will try in the near future and some solid copper S&B ammo on tap (also some G2 ammo but that’s a hollow point). I also want to see if there isn’t something in my feed ramp causing the issue. But see, this is what mean that this round runs great for others and as such is a great round.
I wonder if the Beretta would run the +P more reliably.
That’s a great question, I’ll have to try that out!
I love your videos. Short, to the point and informative. As for the Extreme Defender bullets, I'm not sure what to think. According to what I've read, in order for hydrostatic shock to cause tissue damage, the bullet must be travelling at over 2200 fps. That would seem to indicate that the "wound channel" we see in ballistics gel from this type of "external hollow point" does not represent damage to actual living flesh. That would then seem to mean that these bullets are no better than FMJs (other than the fact that they stop quicker and don't over penetrate). Yes, they do dump energy quicker than an FMJ, but other than what the bullet actually hits, does that energy dump cause any actual damage in living tissue?
Living thanks for much for this thoughtful addition. That’s the $$$ question right there. I have seen videos with folks using 9mm, 40 S&W, and 10mm rounds in hogs where the tissue damage in an animal is significantly more. But…as you point out, those rounds are much closer (and with 10mm over) to rifle speed. Some swear by these and say the proof is there, and others say like you it’s just gel. This gel is a simulation of a simulation of real life. They claim it mimics real gel perfectly but I’ve seen videos disproving that. I’d also argued that the famous meat target (which I love) isn’t perfect because that’s meat that doesn’t have the blood in it any more. Sigh. And to make matters worse these rounds haven’t been around enough to really have cadaver studies, so we are left with these guesses. I will point at the army recently picking black hills to make 9mm ammo for them that looks like it has these Lehigh defense bullets in them. Interesting? Or the army just testing things. What I can say is other than cost, I’d like these for areas I can’t use a hollow point. And if you are worried about over penetration of the 380 or other round perhaps this is better because those flutes do slow it down. Finally the big question is around the 380acp round which is frankly too slow. What self defense round should you use with a slow cartridge. What I believe is you want something with great penetration but not over penetration. Expansion is great but most important is getting deep enough to hit what you are shooting at. In other words I don’t have the answer either 😂🤣😂🤷♂️
Another good one TB. Every time I see Lehigh bullets, I think wow, but fairly often there are comments about something that might have done a bit better, or could have been a bit different. On the other hand, you walk the walk and bring it to us.
At just a bit over two hundred ft-lbs., there’s a common thought(assumption) about people using FMJs, because of penetration problems. Maybe, stick one or two of those in gel to see what happens. But, this isn’t a request, just comment.
I think great shooting. If I stuck aim points 4-5 inches apart, things would get mixed up, more often than not. Lol, I think you should burn up six or eight fifty buck boxes of ammo from the hip🤣.
Hahahaha thanks Craig. Yah all these aint cheap and the gel at $90 a block…I try to do as many different ammos in the same gel block and only get 2 boxes for testing. If I were in this to make money or break even I’d be an idiot. 😂🤣. So I do what I can.
I agree these rounds are highly debated. I for sure want to compare them to FMJ and some flat nose rounds. I’ll get to that after I get though more of the “defense rounds”. Many people who carry 380, carry FMJ for these reasons. Thanks Craig!!
a gel is good to see how the bullet expands, but any gel test should consider a human body that can further stop the bullet travel once it expands and starts interacting with the bone structure.
yup.
I have a BG 2.0 and not had any feeding issues. But I have had feeding issues with my old TCP. Try a similar fluted round from G9 Defense. It runs more reliable. I love the BG 2.0 so much I made a leather holster to carry on my hip. I made a video short on my channel of the holsters.
Awesome that’s great! I’ll check it out!
Did a couple bullets flip around in the gel?
That's something I have routinely seen in tests all over the internet and that's the biggest reason I won't use these bullets. We know that the flutes must be travelling forward in order to do work, and they very often fail to do this in testing. I put my faith in Hornady's XTP and FTX bullets for .380.
1) there were other bullets in the gel. Again, that’s on me but I just can’t afford so many new gel blocks. 2) these absolutely tumble. In my opinion tumbling is good as long as you get deep enough penetration. You are right about the flutes but also when a bullet tumbles it’s doing wider damage like a hollow point. I just don’t know if that is consistent in the real world. I’ve got the FTX coming up! I love them for 9mm and more but they seemed borderline in 380 ACP as their penetration was not super great. Penetration in gel is a whole other rabbit hole to go down as to how important that is.
@triggerbarPhD Reusing blocks is understandable, I've seen how much those cost. I didn’t want to jump to conclusions.
I personally don't find tumbling to be desirable for a bullet that costs as much as the Lehigh.
It reminds me of the old Remington 88 gr JHPs. Sometimes, they would expand a little, but most of the time, they would act like ball. That was acceptable for the time because some .380s wouldn't feed any other JHP and the 88s didn't cost more than FMJ.
As always, thank you for the videos. I'll be looking forward to your findings on the Hornady loads.
@ got it and that makes sense. Hahaha thanks for understanding. I tried to get 3 tests out of these blocks before I clean them and remelt. But sometimes I have to throw out so much it’s like 2:1 on new blocks to reheated blocks.
That was my thought on the JHPs.
Thanks again!!
Have you ever used the 75g interceptor round from the ballistic machinist?
I have not, seems like an interesting round, I’ll check it out!
@@triggerbarPhD I've heard it called the churro of death, the way it opens and cuts through. I'm not entirely sure of the twist rate on my 84bb but it would be interesting to see it out of the 1:10 barrel.
@@Millzspec I’ll give it a shot. Looks like it gets 8” of penetration but maybe that’s enough. I always look for rounds that get 12” but dang that petal is nasty. That would do a LOT of damage!
@@triggerbarPhD thats always been a concern for me as well. Like you say with bones and tendons and muscle in the way that 8 inches could quickly become 4 or less. Look forward to more of your testing!
@@Millzspec thanks again!
I just picked up a Bodyguard 2.0 and I'm planning on feeding it Hydra-Shok Deeps. Seems like the best available combination to me.
@@wastool that’s what I’m carrying. I have a federal punch testing coming up and I compare it with the Hydra Shok deep with it too. And I’m still carrying hydra Shok deep!
Definitely the wind. At 5 yards the 380 is highly susceptible to outside influences. You should consider a 50 Desert Eagle or 460 Rowland.
😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤦♂️😂
Interesting that you are having issues feedeng, maybe needs more love? No you use your tools... I don't know. I mean for 380 did ok, I don't hate it.
I’ve done some love on them. They do better in more recent tests but the bg2.0 still struggles a bit with underwood extreme defender even after polishing both feed ramps with flitz and a dremmel!
@@triggerbarPhD that may fix some stuff