Massad Ayoob - Is .380 Enough for Self-Defense? Selecting the correct ammunition. Critical Mas EP 59
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- Опубліковано 25 кві 2023
- Massad Ayoob is answering your questions. One question we received was, "Is .380 enough?" Massad looks at the Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defense Solid Copper Bullet. When it comes to .380, ammunition selection is even more important. The right combination of stopping power and penetration is key.
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Critical Mas(s) with Massad Ayoob is a show that provides expert analysis over a wide range of contemporaneous topics related to civilian and law enforcement self-defense, the use of force, and second amendment issues, provided by a renowned and established author with a career spanning decades in training law enforcement officers and the public at large, who is frequently called upon to provide expert witness testimony.
ABOUT MASSAD AYOOB:
Massad Ayoob has been handgun editor of GUNS magazine and law enforcement columnist for AMERICAN HANDGUNNER since the 1970s and has published thousands of articles in gun magazines, martial arts publications, and law enforcement journals. He is the author of some twenty books on firearms, self-defense, and related topics, including “In the Gravest Extreme” and “Deadly Force,” widely considered to be authoritative texts on the topic of the use of lethal force.
The winner of the Outstanding American Handgunner of the Year Award in 1998, Mas has won several states and regional handgun shooting championships. Ayoob was the first person to earn the title of Five Gun Master in the International Defensive Pistol Association. He is the current President of the Second Amendment Foundation. He served 19 years as chair of the Firearms Committee of the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers, and several years as a member of the Advisory Board of the International Law Enforcement Educators and Trainers Association. In addition to teaching for those groups, he has also taught
for the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors and the International Homicide Investigators seminars.
Mas has received judicial recognition as an expert witness for the courts in weapons and shooting cases since 1979, and served as a fully sworn and empowered, part-time police officer for 43 years, mostly at supervisor rank. Ayoob founded the Lethal Force Institute in 1981 and served as its director until 2009, and now trains through Massad Ayoob Group. He has
appeared on CLE-TV delivering continuing legal education for attorneys, through the American Law Institute and American Bar Association, and has been retained to train attorneys to handle deadly force cases through the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. Ayoob served for two
years as co-vice chair of the Forensic Evidence Committee of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. He also appeared in each episode of Personal Defense TV (Sportsman’s Channel).
#MassadAyoob #WilsonCombat #CriticalMas - Спорт
Have you looked into Xtreme Defense ammunition?
I have, bought some 380 and 9mm. Ran some through my 2 380 pistols, ez and ruger security. Also ran 9mm through my PCC 9mm .
We have a troll…
Yes, I use Xtreme Defence in my primary concealed carry and my backup.
@@stevexracer4309 and why is that?
No I haven’t but I’m going to.🍻
"A .380 in the pocket beats a .45 in the trunk"
-some guy
A baby Browning in the pocket beats the crap out of a .500 Holland and Holland in the gun safe!
That's my motto since I retired from law enforcement. I used to carry a SIG P220 in .45 for several years. I'm not carrying that as a citizen all day. My .S&W Bodyguard 380 in my pocket, and my Glock 19, in a hidden compartment in my truck, makes me feel fine.
A .22 in the shoe beats a .44 in the drawer!
@@FrankCastle187 A gun in the hand is better than none in the bush :)
"Is that a .380 in your pocket or are you not too excited to see me?"
For what it's worth. I went and got a concealed carry permit when I turned 21 back in the mid 80s. I also got some of Massad Ayoob's books on the subject and took his advice. And, sure enough, his advice may well have kept me out of jail. Thanks to him I recognised that I needed to back down from a potential fight when I was carrying as I couldn't risk escalating anything when I was armed. Anyway, he made me actually think about the ramifications of having to shoot in self defense and to think about the moral implications. There are probably a lot of people like me out there and there's no telling how many lives have been saved from Massad Ayoob's good advice.
The best advice I received from my CCL training was that the best case scenario is to never have to use it.
@@bmd1825 I agree with both of you, dad told me if you haven't got into a fight than you've won. I'm proud of both of you, alot of people today don't seem to think of the ramifications of squeezing that trigger!
We've gotten to the point where a lawfully conceal carrier could get jumped, disarmed, then the weapon being used against someone else leading to harm, the victims turn around and sue the carrier.
Don’t think anyone said they are afraid of using their weapons, believe it’s more of the last ditch effort to stop a life threatening situation and not live half-cocked all the time.
@@bobhill3941 The ramifications are all I think about. I'm so terrified of our corrupt legal system in this age, that I'm not sure I could pull the trigger if I had to. I would most certainly hesitate in a situation. But hopefully it will never happen. I avoid going in to public places if I don't have to, and I avoid any conflict like the plague. Even if you win a defensive encounter, you still lose your house and your bank account to lawyers. I think the anxiety of a trial would probably kill me anyway.
Paul Harrell and Massad Ayoob.
Two people that talk sense.
Also Chris Baker
I’ll take mas ayoob, you can keep Paul harrel
Really into bad toupees, huh?@@edt8535
You be the judge.
I have been a Massad Ayoob fan, as well as Bill Wilson fan, since the mid 70s. Only after 25+ years of Internet gun forums and 20 years of UA-cam gun channels, did I just stumble on Paul Harrell's channel 2 days ago. I'm still waiting to get time to check him out more thoroughly - some of his videos are an hour+ in length - but it seems like a good find, too.
This happened way back 2019. My back up is a G42 which is chambered in .380. That thing saved my life! My assailant is a burly, 200 lbs. muscleman with a knife, and just 2 rounds, 2 bloody rounds and it ended the assault. That's based on real life and death situation scenario and guess that was my lucky day indeed.
Glad you’re alright, thanks for sharing I just bought a S&W Bodyguard 380 so it’s good to hear it works when needed
.380 went away after US military fighting in the Philippines in the early 20th century against rebels. They found tribal people who got shot .380 kept coming! That is when they went to John Browning and received the .45 Auto 1911.
that was 38 not 380@@guyfawkesuThe1
MyGlock42 is my do everything pistol
@@user-xb1uk7lv3m Thanks. I was and still am using a .380 ACP Hornady Critical Defense Ammo -90 gr. It's my go to ammo.
I’m a 98lb, 73-year-old woman with arthritic hands. I carry the Glock 42 .380. I do have larger caliber hand guns, long guns and shot guns. These are for home protection but I pray to God I never have to use them🙏🏼
You have a good head on your shoulders. None of us ever want to use weapons against people. But we also recognize this is an evil world, with evil people that can't have their minds changed. Better to have a society that can defend itself.
You rock !
You really can't make this kind of thing up.
Any thoughts on the .327 magnum round?
You should carry two .380s so you can double fist em in a defense situation 😁
I spent 30 years as a police officer in one of the most dangerous cities in the country. About 13 of those years, I worked as a Crime Scene Investigator. Which means I worked a lot of Homicides. I can tell you this, I saw many dead bodies that got that way with a .380 slug in them. I also worked many police involved shootings, many involving the use of .357 revolvers or 9mm. On many occasions when I talked to the officer they would tell me they thought they were missing the suspect. I myself have been in deadly force incidents. The bottom line is if you can’t put the round where it needs to go, a LAWS rocket will do you no good. I sometimes carry a .380 when my 9mm or .45 acp are just to big for the circumstances. But I also know that I can and WILL put the rounds in the right place. It’s all about training and practice.
You're pretty sure of yourself. Please don't overlay your confidence on those of us who train, in class, at the range and never miss one of Mr. Ayoob's Wilson Combat Videos.
However, when a "Trained" Novice who finds themselves confronted with an imminent life or death threat requiring an immediate action response for the first time, the composure to draw, breathe, relax, AIM, slack and squeeze goes out the window for most who have never experienced such an event, the only things they have to consider is how to control the adrenaline, calm down, quickly assess the situation, carefully draw your weapon and (if you possess a 1911) release the safety with your thumb, aim at center mass and empty the magazine. Attempting to AIM and shoot a single round just above the heart where the Aorta branches should not be an immediate action for anyone who is experiencing a deadly attack for the first time.
@@WayneBell-ls8od Don't police officers train? Pretty sure you think you know this guy's qualification, without knowing him.
I agree practice Makes Perfect . I do know Police people- have To Qualify every so often ..
And don't forget keeping calm
I'm just curious what city?
You don't need a 76mm cannon to defend yourself in a street situation, or in a home invasion. The important thing is your reaction time, accuracy and, above all, your ability to stay cool in rough situations. Where I was born, in South America, it was common for gentlemen to carry a .22 short revolver or a .25 auto pistol and many a mugger were dropped by these bullets.
@Dan sounds like you’re in a war zone!
@Dan as long as the mugger is down and out for the count, it's a win in my books. do they necessarily have to die??
@@hellotheremyolfriendYou already know the answer to that. The bad guy doesn't necessarily have to die, but he does have to be stopped. All other things being equal, a small caliber won't stop a bad guy as often as a larger caliber. If stopping a bad guy from doing bad things happens to cause the bad guy to die then that's unfortunate.
Stopping power is key, of course a .22 caliber can kill the threat but it does not have the same stopping power as a 9mm
@@LeChuck.x17 When will this myth of "stopping power" finally die? LOL
.380 ACP does have issues, but it is better than nothing. The main things is as Massad stated, get the best ammo you can for it, and make sure you practice to ensure you know that weapon and ammo will function if the time comes when you need it.
Does anyone else recognize the incredible speech fluency of Massad Ayoob? Few people you'll come across can string along informational sentences that long but also able to speak in such a way that people can take in the information and not zone out
"If you can't explain something simply then you simply don't understand it enough" what you said is a testament to his experience and expertise
One can literally diagram a sentence from his spoken words. You can see commas and period. You can see semi colons. I saw the same verbal fluency with Christopher Hitchens debating religious idiots. Hitchens had facts and figures right off the top if hid head and blasted his verbal dexterity at anyone less educated than he. Mas shares similar eloquence.
Well said, both of you
Yea, he's almost as good and motivational a speaker as Biden
@@tehpurplepills your joke is dumb and embarrassing almost as much as Biden
"Life is a compromise and so is the .380 ACP." Love your sayings!
.32 acp is even more of a compromise, but also so concealable that you can have it in your pocket and most people wouldn't recognize it. Better to have something than nothing. Cricket guns are the something.
@@eventhisidistaken As long as it's not .25 ACP you should be okay...
IDK if I've just shot particular low quality .25s but all the ones I've shot were incredibly unreliable.
@@BlooCollaGal Nah. 25 ACP is just substandard in just about every way.
It's been shown time and time again that .25 ACP is less effective ballistically than .22 LR. Any nurse or trauma surgeon in an ER will attest to that.
Rubbish
.327 Fed magnum. Now that's a .32 that isn't borderline. You get six of them in a pocket snub. Nothing to cry about.
The .380 Hornady Critical Defense ranked extremely close to the 9mm in the FBI ballistic report, so its just fine!
I like how you confuse "extremely close" with "doesn't meet the fbi minimum standards." There is no test on youtube that shows it passing the fbi penetration test. With something like an LCP you would be averaging 9-10.5 inches of penetration. Almost 50% worse than the 9mm. That isn't "extremely close"
@@hks956
It's not on UA-cam, some of us read!!
And I did specify the round.
Hornady XTPs are good too.
I used those in an actual gunfight and I used all 7 but it got me through it alive.
That's what I carry. RUGER LCP MAX 10 + 1 and a spare mag 21 rounds of .380
I feel comfortable.
Never to doubt your expertise.....John Hinckley did a helluva lotta damage to a few folks with a .22.
But he used exploding bullets, which are now illegal of course.
You know what else is illegal? Attempted murder of a president@@stephenklugewicz2714
All I know is I never want to be shot with anything including a BB!
@@stephenklugewicz2714 yeah but they didn't explode. If they had, Reagan would have died.
Best firearms quote of 2023
"Life is a compromise. And so is the 380 ACP."
Absolutely. But the .380 someone is actually carrying beats whatever bigger/better pistol they aren't. I generally fall into that category, myself.
be right back, need some aloe for that burn.
@@Gildragil70 I was quoting Massad from the end of the video.
Clint Smith is not a big fan of .380 pistols. He suggests using snub J frame or Ruger LCR brand revolvers. I've owned both styles & in practical purposes, agree with Smith. .380acp isn't bad overall but not ideal in 2023.
Every pistol is a compromise to some extent. If you knew you were getting into a gun fight would your first choice be a pistol? I know mine wouldn't be one. That said, I've carried everything from 22wmr, 32acp, 380 and up for self defense depending upon the situation.
Excellent video and Mas described exactly why I recommended the .380 to a family friend who is very frail. I took her to the gun store and she tried several firearms in .380 and 9mm. The .380 was the one she could "handle". She later got her concealed carry with that firearm and is much safer today as an elderly woman who lives alone. Mas is always on target!
I'm reminded of what Elmer Keith said many years ago about the best gun for personal protection:
"Get the biggest thing you can carry comfortably and hit with under any and all circumstances."
That elderly friend of yours made a choice that ol' Elmer would approve of.
I often suggest to new CCW license users or new gun owners: buy the smallest gun in the largest caliber you feel you can properly carry, shoot. Many gun owners don't consider field strip, cleaning, loading; "manual of arms" proper storage, ammunition selection etc. Guns are not props, toys or fashion statements. Be ready to know what is required.
@@DavidLLambertmobile I believe you are correct certain people will buy a certain gun as a fashion statement to say look at me “ see what I have got “ and never enjoy shooting it! I do like your though buy the smallest gun you feel comfortable with that shoots the biggest diameter bullet! Everyone needs to be bond with your gun when you pick it up to shoot, just like pointing your finger at something .
Yeah, I worry about my older relatives. All except my mom's mom. She keeps a .357 within reach, and she will absolutely blast with that thing. She has a Smith model 66? It's stainless and beautiful. We just put some lead down range the other day. She is 80 years old. Lol She also keeps a beat up Arminus (.357) in her car. That one makes me nervous, but she is hardheaded. It functions, but I just don't trust it.
If the shooter isn't 100% comfortable with the weapon, it's next to useless. A .380 they aren't scared to shoot is far, far better than the 9mm that makes them hesitate.
Mas introduced me to the world of consequences, and the concept of "The Reasonable Man" with which a jury of my peers would evaluate my responses to an armed confrontation, if it should result in a trial.
It was a sobering experience & I learned a lot. I stopped loudly saying what I would do "if."
I started looking much more closely at my ammunition selection.
I got training.
I got a CCW.
I kept reading his advice in the magazines.
I stopped listening to blowhards, know-nothings, and fear mongers.
I stopped going places where I knew I needed a gun to be safe.
And I'm still learning.
Thank you, Mr. AYOOB.
DOUG out
Indeed, sir. Indeed. I grew up in a rough tough town about pop 70,000. I learned street smarts. Definition: knowing when not to be somewhere.
Having a reliable functioning pistol in any caliber will be better than a stick or bat. Great advice from a professional and always be aware of the situation you have walked/driven or been lead to.
Mr. Mas, I’ve been reading You since the early eighties (I believe). I broke my back and spent a year in a year in a body cast. My Brother drove 900 miles, back when the speed limit was 55, and brought me every book or magazine related to guns for me to read. You are a legend. I read everything He brought at least three times. You, Col. Cooper, Mr. Skelton and P.O. Ackley became very important to me. Thank You for all the years if wisdom! Sincerely, Jeff
Hey Jeff, I hope you've fully recovered.
Heal up Jeff
@@nealskelton1425 ... Are you closely related to Skeeter?
@J W
He was my Uncle. But I knew him as Uncle Chuck.
@@nealskelton1425 ... Cool as heck! Thank you!
Massad is like gun grandpa! Timeless and time tested wisdom
I wouldn't listen to his advice
@@waholoopesorry74 would you explain why?
Y R U here then ??
Ya can't fix toopid,,, no use trying to give a fool advice
Hickok 45 is gun Grandpa; but Massad is a well informed Great uncle.
Love Mr. Ayoob’s depth of knowledge and gifted ability to explain deadly force self defense topics so objectively and thoroughly. Thank you!
Even though I am an instructor, I listen to HOW he does his "lectures" and try to duplicate the same outline and phrasing.
MY instructor was/is a student of Massad's
I am an unarmed UK citizen,but I find these videos fascinating,and I am learning a lot...even though I will never use it! This guy is amazing!
You're country folded and took the guns and you can't get those rights back shameful
2nd amendment rights God given! Fight to the death for your rights!
Shadow banded again\
@@williamharris5957 we folded quicker than a dime store picnic table 😔
I know it's easy to say, but you really might look into migrating to America. (Choose a free state).
My Rugar LCP 380 is with me always, simply because it is small and lightweight. Whereas my S&W M&P Shield 45 stays home quite often because it is just too big and heavy.
Completely agree
Shield 45 kicks like a damned mule too. I have one as my car defense for glass penetration, but I pray I never have to discharge that thing in close quarters. It’ll probably result in permanent hearing damage 🙁
A Walther 380 ACP saved my life. Three rounds, expansion hollow point. The key is no print, training, and moving target proficiency. If a person requires more rounds, carry extra magazines, but round placement is crucial.
THE 380 ACP has more puissance than a 22 Caliber and yet the 22 Caliber has killed many a perp. To Wit: The only gun that does you any good is the one you have in your hand when you need it to defend yourself. 🤠
The only time I ever had to pull a gun out on somebody they decided they had better things to do the instant they saw it. Dude ran and I didn't shoot.
Basically I was getting mugged by a hobo with a knife and I pulled out a revolver instead of my wallet.
@@BlooCollaGal
So you let other people get killed because you lost your man card.
Good job 👍
@@thisismagacountry1318 oh also, you can't claim self defense if you shoot a dude in the back who's running away.
@@thisismagacountry1318 Easy for you to say. Some states, cities, dependent upon attorney general or district attorney. State, county, city law. They might decide to charge you with a crime.
Better to avoid rather than cause. In some places it is an outright crime to defend yourself. Some places in the case of a knife, you must take so many steps backing up, before firing. Others, you can stand your ground.
Your comment sounds like a boisterous little boy. Attempting to claim manhood.
I appreciate your reviews - no promotions, just honest opinions. Thank you.
He promotes Wilson combat.... Wilson makes good crap, but, not friendly to our pocket books.
A .380 in hand is better than a .45 in the glove compartment.
I just gotta say as an old guy who like many others back in the day carried a .38 Snubby, the modern .380 is every bit as much gun as the .38 with modern ammo. I upgraded from the .38 Model 60 S&W to a .380 Walther PPK back in the early 80's and never felt under armed. It's about you not the gun _ you must become proficient with the weapon and be able to hit what you are aiming to end the fight. No matter what caliber you are carrying, shot placement is the key. A couple solid hits to the chest with a .380 are far better than a miss with the latest Ultra-Magnum Super-Boomer Deluxe.
.38 special in an airweight anyone?
@@MattByrne I have a 38 special S&W Airweight internal hammer. Single action only.
Pocket carry workhorse.
To me there's no real comparison with a .38 special & .380.
The 38 special is a longer cartridge that hits way harder, gives the expansion with hollow points & the 380 DOESN'T do any of this.
Add in +p ammo & 38 special runs away with the win. I'd never carry 380 unless something happened to me & that's what my limit was at.
Still better than NOTHING any day of the week. Shot placement drives EVERYTHING.
True so True
I would hope this is true, but when you listen to most self defense stories, it's often chaotic and terrifying. The shooter often doesn't even remember seeing their sights or a red dot on their gun. I'm not saying training is useless, I'm just saying those of us who aren't soldiers probably won't even be able to process "shot placement" if we're unlucky enough to be in a self defense shoot. Most self defense shooting stories tend to suggest you will be in a shocked, numb state while you spray bullets in front of you.
@@JeremyBell There is no easy way to gain the skill you need. Shot placement and indexing the sights, just like learning the proper grip, manual of arms and trigger squeeze are a function of training. To be proficient you must train and establish the muscle memory that will take over even when you are in a high stress encounter. Red Dot's can help and I like them, but they are no different _ they are not magic. You must train with them.
I carried a Colt Combat Commander for years and did not have to think about getting a high grip, swiping off the safety during a draw, placing my finger properly on the trigger or getting a sight picture before firing the weapon. I did not have to think about those things because I had spent the time drawing the weapon and sending rounds down range so those actions were automatic. There was no need to think about them. That is the edge training gives you. With Muscle Memory - it is beyond thought, your body just does it.
Proper Training gives you mastery of the fundamentals so you can react to the threat and focus on the target... not worry about the sights, trigger or safety.
Google Hand Gun Drills and spend the time and ammo you need to become proficient. If you have the time and can afford it schools like GunSite or Shoot To Live can help you get up to speed. But you can do a hell of a lot to up your game and skill level on your own with a bit of research- lots of videos and information out there to help.
Self Defense and the tools needed for survival start with what's in your head, not whats on your hip. Spend the time and ammo needed to master your weapon, whatever it is. It all starts in the big head.
I've always been told there are two schools of thought concerning the .380:
1. It's just enough to do the job.
2. It's just enough NOT to do the job.
My experience in emergency services:
Across the bedroom range, it'll work.
It'll work, but not very quickly. Consider it an eye, ear, nose and throat gun.
I guess there is a third school of thought: it’s better than nothing.
@@828enigma6wrong
@Nicholas Ashton this is exactly my thoughts, its probably bare minimum in terms of the smallest caliber i would consider for a edc gun. But if for some reason 9mm is just too much for someone 380 is a good lighter recoil option and is definitely better than nothing at all.
reloading, testing, shooting, experience has taught me much.rarely do I get decent expansion of 380. so I reload missouri bullets 355 Dia hardcast rn.listed special agent 95 gr with a brinnel hardness factor of 18 to shoot through the offender.i also reload berry,s 356 Dia 100gr horn both 850_ 900 fps.papa
It's videos like this! That keeps me coming back, time after,time after, Time !love y'all!
When I got my carry permit back in the early '90s, I read many of the gun magazines, and of all the writers, I felt that Mr. Ayoob was the best. This gentleman knows what he's talking about, and anyone who is interested in learning more about firearms would do well to read Mr. Ayoob's books.
Many thanks to Mr. Ayoob and Wilson Combat for this continuing series.
The 380 is a compromise indeed, yet better to put those shots on target quickly than miss with bigger calibers. Age-related or medical-related disability need to be considered; Granny won't handle a 45 ACP , but she might survive thanks to sub-optimal calibers like 22, 25, 32, or 380. As someone who has suffered some disability at a younger age (late 40's until today at 57), while I can still shoot my 40 S & W fairly well, frankly the pounding is making me look hard at 9mm and even 380 to carry in a gun-hating state and county (Illinois/Cook) as crime increases and laws let felons roam freely.
Take a look at Ruger's Security .380 Lite Rack. I have one and have probably close to 300 rounds through her already she hasn't had any failures even with Hollow Points such as Norma MHP 85 grain. Takes same holsters as the Security 9 too.
@@ivehaditidontcareanymore.6326 Thanks for your suggestion; I never heard of that version. I can actually rack and handle my G22 very well; it's the soreness in my hands after 30-40 rounds of 40 S & W that have me looking at 9mm and 380.
Would you consider a heavier platform? Smith & Wesson puts out a revolver chambered for the 10 mm. I don't know if another cylinder would be required though. I suppose that it would handle the 40 quite well. And the weight of the revolver would absorb much of the recoil. So something to consider since you like your 40.
You misspelled Crook County😊
@@markh.6687 Although I can still shoot my Full-size M&P 40 S&W, I carry a compact in 9mm. My recommendation would be to use the gun and caliber that you can shoot in enough quantity to remain proficient.
.380 is enough for self defense with the right load. Hornady 90gr XTP, or loads from Buffalo Bore and Underwood would be good choices. Check out Lucky Gunner's .380 ballistics tests.
Agreed. Lucky Gunner is my go-to survey of ammo performance.
😂
Banana Ballistics is great, too.
And the legendary, mythical beast that is Paul Harrell.
@Guns&cars is a great channel for gel tests
Buffalo bore plus p in 380 have same muzzle energy as 38 special
Love listening to Mr. Ayoob. Very thorough and thoughtful.
You want to hang onto every word that comes out of this gentleman’s mouth. So much knowledge
I love listening to Massad speak - always well spoken, educational and entertaining.
I hear that when I read articles from him too. 😄
He’s soothing, like Joe Kenda 😊
I fit that .380 acp criteria (hand damaged from botched carpal tunnel surgery). I have watched many videos on the newer ammunition. The performance of the Lehigh Underwood Extreme Defender in multiple gel block, barrier, simulated torso (Paul Harrell) videos convinced me that it is my best option. The wound channels and penetration are exceptional.
I LOL'd @ simulated torso (Paul Harrell). The meat target!! Love Paul.
@@rexlr695 don’t forget the large soda bottles.
I carry a Sig P238 in .380. I carry everywhere, work, store, Church, any place I am legally allowed to. I have small hands, no Glocks, 70 years old. It is in a holster in my right front pocket. 2 extra mags. Defence ammo. I live in a small rural town in Texas. I do have a P365 and a P226 which I will carry if I go to the big cities. Depends on the situation and where I am going to. I do occasionally carry a S&W Airweight too.
Underwood ammo has a load in .380 also that uses the same bullet from Lehigh Defense. It seems to be loaded a bit hotter than the Lehigh loading. Seems to have slightly better performance. Is one better than the other? As Paul says, you be the judge.
But the point being, Underwood or Buffalo Bore or another small ammo brand isn't going to be the vast majority of what people find or know at their local ammo stores.
Mas I've followed your advice since the 80's and also have your books on my shelf. Your info is always spot on.
In a case where laws change or new products or ideas are developed you are always one of the first to come out and say "hey when I wrote this it was correct but now it's changed to this and here's what you need to know now".
I recently purchased the LCP Max due to the higher round count and slightly fatter grip compared to the regular LCP or LCP2. I tried the Lehigh XD 68 grain 380 round which I purchased from you guys over at Wilson combat. It functions flawlessly in my pistol and is very accurate. I'm going to have that as my EDC round for that particular pistol.
Mas is always intelligent, well spoken and practical.
I tested this stuff a week or two ago in my Shield EZ. I haven't released the video yet, but the .380 ACP in the Lehigh bullet here, outperformed both the Fort Scott TUI and the NovX Engagement Extreme .380 ACP. The NovX was even a +P, but the Lehigh one caused damage that looked like hollow point cutting as where the others just looked like FMJ wound tracks that happened to not over-penetrate.
Can you run it against the Critical Defense .380? The ballistic gel wound track looks really good on Critical Defense but the penetration is an issue with .380. This looks promising but I don't know yet.
Can’t wait for the video !
Nice. Can't wait to see
Thank you, Gun Sam. You/your channel is one of my favorites.
@firstchevalier I have the Barnes Tac-XPD Defense 80gr. I have shot at a couple old refrigerators, and it will go clean out through both sides with pretty impressive damage.
"Life is a compromise and so is the .380 ACP"
😂😂
One of the truest statements ever
Was thinking the same exact thing!
All duty handgun rounds are a compromise.
One of those lines that half the people probably skipped over, Massad thinks on a deeper level than most. .380 ACP is still lethal so while a compromise it still has it's place, personally I'm in agreement with his minimum being 9mm, provided you can handle it, and conceal it properly. He highlighted his arguments for it though which make sense.
That stament is from somebody who never shoot a Gun.
380 is life, 380 is love
I love my Ruger LCP. I call it the original point and click device. I hope I never have to use it, but at 72 it gives me a sense of security if I have to be in a place where bad things could happen. Here in AZ that could be a hungry mountain lion on the timeshare property while walking back form a restaurant, which has happened.
Your spoken language is pristine and well-received. Semper Fi
Very well presented and accurate. Retired State Trooper here. In Florida I can usually be found wearing a T shirt and shorts. I pocket carry the Ruger LCP 380 with Hornady Critical Defense ammo. On occasion I also carry another compact gun the Diamondback DB9. Neither one is a range gun. Neither one is comfortable to shoot but they are very concealable while wearing very light clothing. When I lived in New Hampshire I had the luxury of being able to carry a compact 45 ACP. I realize that I'm at the bottom end of the power curve but these two handguns fit the bill for my current lifestyle. Stay safe everyone.
I also carry an LCP 380 with HCD ammo.. Like it's been said a million times before, a 380 in the pocket is better than a 45 in the glove box. Shot placement is more important than most people may think.
Get one with a laser. A good laser.
LEO in St. Louis. I carry the same setup as my backup gun, Ruger LCP 380 with the Hornady Critical Defense ammo. I added the plus one mag for 7+1 capacity and the Hogue grip, love it. Shoots surprisingly well too.
Another reason for a .380 that was not mentioned was the size of a shooter. My late fiancée was barely 5' tall, and she could not comfortably hold anything larger than a single stack .380. So for her we selected a Walther PK clone because it was the largest she could comfortably and accurately use. For a small shooter, having too large of a pistol can hamper them because they can not use it accurately.
She did try my .45 M1911 at a range once. She fired three rounds, and set it back on the bench and would never pick it up again.
A carry gun that stays at home is worse than one that's actually carried. I love how light and small the original LCP is.
What i enjoy about Massad is he talks "facts" & real life experance...!..any video with Massad in it is never a waist of time...u always learn something...!.thank u Massad..
I love listening to this guy's experiences and recommendations.
As a recently retired physician, discreet carry was a major concern. Two handguns filled the bill. A 380 Walther Ppk, and atwo inch 38 revolver, usually a Colt D frame. I later replaced the Ppk with the much lighter Colt Mustang Pocketlite fitted with a C&S ambi safety for southpaw carry. I started out with Super Vel 380 , and then , finishing up with Hornady Critical Defense. Even better are the Buffalo Bore 100 grain flat nose hard cast , that hit at 1050 to 1150 fps out of the Colt and Walther. This brings out another salient point . The 380 acp is sensitive to barrel length. The difference from 2 3/4,to 3 1/2,or 3 3/4,can be 75 to 100 fps, making a big difference in expansion and penetration. Not my first choice , but with the ability to place shots on target , it will get the job done. It is also not a 25 yd plus battle pistol, it is what follows the rule of three for ccw. 3 shots or less , 3seconds or less at 3 yards or less.
Ditto....like the .380 and my G42 handles extremely well and accurately.
@@bmd1825 Same here. Before purchasing the G42, I was looking for something to pocket carry. I tried out a friend's S&W Bodyguard, but that thing was so snappy it made practice downright miserable.The G42 has been perfect for my EDC. Honestly, I wouldn't want to carry anything larger on my person. Here in Georgia, it is extremely hot and humid for the majority of the year. Lugging around a huge firearm all day isn't for me. When leaving the house, the G42 makes concealed pocket carry easy. Just grab and go.
Take care BMD #1
@@ChrisfromGeorgia totally agree....I’ve owned S&W’s, LCP and a KelTec trying to find that “ fit and function “ you’ve described. I live in Mississippi and can contest to the heat and humidity! The G42 to me is the sweet spot for my EDC, even though I have (4) G23’s, they usually ride in the car for travel and camp out in the house. in my humble opinion the advancement in ammunition has pulled the .380 much closer to the 9mm while admitting that it’s still a lesser caliber.
Plan and simple is I like the way it feels, the round is very manageable and I have confidence in it.
@@bmd1825 Exactly. I don't have many firearms, but the 9mm Ruger Ec9s I have isn't too much larger than the G42, but it's large enough to where it's not comfortable for pocket carry. I like the Ruger LCP2 22lr I have too. Even though it's smaller than the G42, I don't trust it in emergency situations. Like you said, the advancements in .380 ammunition really make the difference, especially when ran through the smooth shooting G42.
Wishing you and yours all the best.👍
The rule of 3 doesn't usually apply anymore, the cretins travel in packs.
Ruger LCP Max 13 rounds with the 68 grain Underwood extreme defender Platinum edition monolithic, I'm pretty happy with this setup for concealed carry.
Extremely light and comfortable
I got one as well.👍
I like shooting it. The problem for me is that my hands are just a bit too big to quickly get inside the guard and acquire the trigger. Still, I do carry it because it's so easy to conceal.
Took me a while to get used to the lcp max trigger. Now that I have 300 plus down range I am hitting consistently at 10 yards in the bullseye effortless. It's a great deep conceal get off me pistol, but train train train! The LCP max is anything but tame. Looking into defensive ammo choices now.
@@gkott78 that is awesome accuracy, what holster are you running?
I appreciate the dispassionate evaluation and commentary. I choose to carry my .380 ACP when discretion requires my most concealable handgun, but I have not considered using ammunition that might have better results. Thanks for making me think about it.
Thank you for this informative video. I have carried or kept near a 380 for decades. I do have a 9mm for a main handgun, the 380 has been easier to conceal for the reasons you mentioned, location, etc. The increase in active shooter situations made me question if I should get mid-size 9mm to replace the 380 for discrete carry. Your video answered my questions and also gave me more information to be able to make an informed choice.
The frustrating part for 380 is the cost per round compared for 9mm. IF one is going to practice a lot, those cost differences do add up and those on a limited income do have to think about costs.
learn to reload and cast & PC bullets - you'll be under 15 cents a round if you save your brass to reload it, and scrounge scrap lead for bullets
Bob Diaz, you don't have to practice that much with a .380. Besides, it is for very close combat encounters. Don't burn up your ammo. Save it for self-defense, not the range.
@@anthonydouglascontares3471 Exactly. Most people practice shots at distances, trying to be as accurate as possible. They should be practicing with targets within 3 yards and shooting as you're taking a gun from a holster and shooting from the waist and some other awkward positions to just know how the gun will handle, etc.
@cchavezjr7 exactly, most gun fights happen within 7 to 15 feet. Most perpetrators will back off at 20 feet upon seeing or knowing you're armed.
@@anthonydouglascontares3471 The key word here is "Most", yes most, but not all. That's why practice is so important; there's no time to think what to do during a gunfight.
I like the way Mas uses the word "murder" rather than "harm" or "kill", because it is a more accurate way of describing what is happening and carries with it connotations that help drive home the message to any anti-gun listener that an attacker intends to grievously harm the potential victim. It has to be a deliberate word selection. I've been following Mas for years and what a tremendous resource he has been. With respect to .380 ACP, not my first choice; but, it beats the .45 ACP that someone left at home because of weight, bulk, etc.
I think the language matters too because if you need to shoot someone in self defense and want to walk away with your freedom, you'd better be sure they could be trying to kill you.
Hard to believe someone would leave a slim, slick S&W Shield45 at home.
Don't say anti gun. Say hoplophobic because it hurts their ego and makes them think you called them homophobic
Massad, you have been my mentor, my Guru ever since I first picked up In The Gravest Extremes. Yo're a LIVING LEGEND and Thank You for all that you've done and contributed to increasing the safety of the civilian populous. Go Blue !
I guess all I can say is I've trained extensively with my S&W M&P .380 bodyguard and I am more than confident it would do what I expected of it.
Your Bodyguard has shown that it is reliable, and practicing a lot is the best thing you can do to try and make yourself ready should the time come. Trouble is none of us can be 100% certain of how we will react and perform when suddenly woken up with a sound and believing that a home invasion is under way. In just a second or two you have to clear out your groggy head, grab the gun, and determine that the person entering your bedroom is an actual intruder and not your wife coming back in from checking on your kids. That's a lot of things to cover in a couple of split seconds when you are still suffering from not being completely aware and awake. Scares the hell out of me.
@@wilycoyote9091Advice: Practice PID. (Positive identification.) In other words, don't just practice your weapon draw for defensive situations; practice lighting up the area with a flashlight, or WML. Never shoot into the dark.
My favorite round 380, ball or defensive. and as we know, placement is everything no matter what Calibur. Another great informative review! Thanks.
Just curious, but what .380 pistol would you recommend?
@@Isaac_5.56x45 recommending a firearm to a person is complicated and involves thought. many variables, age, gender, experience, mode of carry or reason, and even physical condition of the wearer. but if it answers your question KAHR.
@@Isaac_5.56x45 I can recommend the LCP 2. I'm very pleased with it. It's my "gym/beach/exercise/deep concealment" gun. The trigger is a HUGE improvement over the original LCP. The hard part is figuring out what holster to use, but that's true of all guns I guess.
@@Isaac_5.56x45 browning 1911-380
I have bought a couple of 389's and only found one to be what I wanted and that was the Glock 42
I used my .380 (P3AT) in a SD situation and the two rounds I fired did keep me from getting stabbed. A short time after this incident I switched to a Kahr PM9 for pocket carry. It is now about 13 years later and at soon to be 79 years old I'm giving serious consideration to switching back to a .380 - LCP MAX is what I'm considering. What with some arthritis developing in my hands my Khar is getting a bit difficult to comfortably rack.
I carry the Max. It’s so light I forget it’s there. I feed it Inceptor ARX Ammo. So far I am happy with it. A good pocket holster is a must.
I really appreciate your honesty. That is very refreshing in this world. Sometimes trends and reality just do not coincide
This is probably the best explaination of the .380 I've ever heard. I'd only use/carry that round if it was the only one I could use in a given situation. I agree with Mr. Ayoob, that 9 mm is my minimum for safety and .45 ACP is my carry pistol at home and in the car.
Can’t wait until Massad makes his appearance in SC.
My favorite part of GWLE in the early 90s was the monthly contribution from Mr. Ayoob. By 1993, I had a badge and a few classes with Robert Smith, whom Mr. Ayood certainly knows 😉. 5-6 times in my career (usually after a lucky perfect score), I get the comment, "Where did you learn to shoot?" I like to think it was embracing "expert" advice from Mr. Ayoob and his friends 😊
I am glad that you emphasize "stopping power". Many UA-cam gun/ammo reviewers discuss and demonstrate "penetrating power", which is really much less important for self defense.
I have commented on your videos before. This is another concise, clear message about an important topic that many of us older people have grappled with as we consider the exact hand issues that you describe. Fortunately I can still handle the recoil of my 1911 in 45 acp but this video is still important to me. I have older friends who carry a 380 but have the benefit of lots of training so that shot placement may be better for them than a person who approach the carrying of a. Firearm in a bit more casual fashion. Again, a great presentation.
Retired LASD. S&W Bodyguard 380 (no laser) and Federal HST, 99gr hollow points. Great combo for your discrete pocket carry option.
Sure, if your assailant is only 3 feet distant. The Bodyguard has a horrible, gritty trigger. It is a piece of crap. I would rather carry six rocks in my pocket and throw them.
@@gregorydamario7977 how about you stand there and I’ll put 7 rounds of 380 into you and tell me what you think dummy.
I prefer a Shield 9 plus. 13 in the mag or 10 if you have small hands.
@@gregorydamario7977 I purchased a Bodyguard 380 from an LA Deputy Sheriff and found it quite accurate but certainly NOT an all day range gun; it is a belly gun and certainly not a competition gun...
Is 99gr high for .380?
I love the 380. Very easy to carry and shoot. I have bursa 380 15 round magazine. Great little gun
Thank you.
You're information was helpful.
I've been carrying a 380 ruger for
10 years. Never had to use it But I have something to defend myself.
I am 71. I’ve followed Mr Ayoob for years. He is a Master.
For a little while I was a little unsure about the 380 and its effectiveness. That is until I was accidentally shot with one almost 2 years ago. Thankfully it was only a grazing wound to my outer thigh and not a straight on shot. I'm also thankful that it was a round nose flat tip projectile instead of a hollow point because it would have torn out a larger chunk of flesh instead of being a clean entrance and exit wound. That being said, I know it would have shattered my femur if it was a straight shot, so when people mock the penetration or the lack of power of the 380 I know that if you do your part with proper shot placement the 380 can very much be lethal.
Man that socks but glad you are ok. Was it an accident or do you not want to say? Sorry if I sound nosey. Not meant to be.
@@fuzfire Thanks and yes was an accident
Underwood Extreme Defender...excellent penetration to 12 to 14 inches out of a 3 inch barrel AND BETTER wound channel than a hollowpoint... the 380 problem has been solved by this type of bullet design. Watched DOZENS of video tests thru heavy clothing into gel and ALL the results were outstanding.
380 is plenty in a personal defense situation. The critical factor isnt really the caliber, it is the type of ammo and the shot placement. Proper ammo in a good handgun in 380 will protect you just fine in just about any self defense situation that most will find themselves in. Keep in mind, if you are talking small frame pistols, keep in mind that subcompact 9mm arent much larger than many 380's on the market. Ammo and shot placement are the key.
Very helpful. Thanks soooooo much for your researched and experienced information. So grateful.
Great analysis as usual! Well done!
I carry a 380 ACP Ruger LCP as a landlord working on houses. I find that I will carry it because it is light vs leaving a gun behind before I owned a LCP. My thought is that one should carry the most powerful cartridge that will actually be carried. Mouse gun beats no gun. Ammo selection will be something I re-examine. Thanks again for a great Mossad for great advice!
Wait till you discover the LCP Max!
HST makes a good round
@Golfer Pro12 my last 2 boxes of HST (my favorite round) have both shed their jackets in jugs of water while testing my gun and the ammo out. Not saying all will but it consistently happened with first a 9mm then my .45 after that.i still have them in a drawer. I got mushroomed bullets and the mushroomed jackets beside them. It could be from mass produced in a hurry pandemic ammo or maybe just a bad batch, but 2 different calibers of the same brand is hard to get that lucky with. It's made me really consider Gold Dots for now on and I hate that cuz HSTs have always performed great on video tests, but I do it myself and bam jacket separation happens.
This video is a great example of why Mas is considered the best. Fact driven data applied to real world life situations create the most relevant discussions. Thanks Mas for all you have and continue to offer to society.
Best what? Gun rag writer? Easy to do, when you have the drop 😂😂 between rhevreiedb 5:05 compromise
Massad is a trusted voice in my opinion, thank you 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
The best explanation I’ve seen, period. Concise, facts, relevant experience, perfect.
Summertime is coming which means the Ruger LCP in 380 ACP goes into high use. Good news is it'll cycle anything in hollowpoint. I hear the Norma MHP (Monolythic Hollow Point) is making a big splash.
Plus in the summer time any potential adversary should not be wearing layers of heavy winter clothing.
I carry an lcp alot.
I can't make the gun malfunction.
But I'm not too crazy about the .380.
But it's just too convenient to put in my pocket
@@jefftracystoutenburg5315 buy the 32 rd drum mag for it! That'll make it malfunction.
I've never had a malfunction with a magazine that came with the gun.
That's the same way I feel...concerned about it being underpowered but it's so dam convenient, especially in warm weather (and as a backup).
@@jefftracystoutenburg5315 Hit the head or the groin in any caliber and you'll achieve excellent results. I train myself to go for the groin first, then head. If you miss you still have the femoral arteries and/or hips so the perp either bleeds to death or stops dead in his tracks.
@@Jaden48108 The Mozambique drill. 🤔
I truly appreciate Mr. Ayoob’s videos, and I think his sense of humor is the icing on the cake!
Thanks Massad - appreciate your feedback!
Man is an expert ,just listening to him gives me a more sense of security.
His wig kills it for me. Anyone wearing that toupee is missing a level of self-awareness. 😂
You are an incredibly articulate expert. Thanks. I am glad I discovered your channel!
Good vid friend. I've been reading you for years. I've tested the penetrators and defenders from lehigh in .380 ACP due to my wife's lack of hand strength. I cannot speak speak to effects on humans, but ribs on watermelons, shrouded in leather, was surprisingly effective. The cavitator, by Lehigh, got the .32 ACP to pass FBI ballistic test. I wish they would make it in .380.
Mr. Massad... Thank you so much for answering this question. I'm Retired, but former Federal Law Enforcement. My Wife and I recently passed our CCW Course and received our Carry Conceal Permits. She shot a S&W . 380 on the range to qualify and shot well. She's really wanting the same Carry gun. But as this Course was mostly for her protection. I've been getting her to hold off. I just didn't think the . 380 was enough to drop a Drugged Assailant. Again, thank you.
Solid info from Mas, as always. Thank you, sir.
I took LFI1 with Mas in the 90s; possibly the single most important training I ever obtained! (100 on the written test, 291 on the shooting test). Terrific.
Excellent content sir, thank you. Like most everything in life, managing compromises and trade offs is the name of the game.
I had followed Mr. Ayoob in print for many years and am very happy to learn I can watch him on UA-cam. My go-to self defense concealed carry handgun will probably remain the 5 round revolver .38 cal. +p with expanding hollow point.
Good choice.
Only 5 rounds? That's not a good idea.
@@Philmoscowitz Be honest Phil. What gun do you carry (if at all), and what % of the time do you carry it? I carry one and sometimes two Ruger LCR J frames loaded with 38 ++P every day, and only take them off if a restricted area has an x-ray machine as in a court room or airport.
@Philmoscowitz Unless someone lives a sketchy lifestyle, lives in a high crime hood or some other factors, a 5 shot 38 is fine. In the 80s, Bernard Goetz famously shot 4 guys attempting to rob him on a NYC subway. He had a 5 shot 38. Up until the 90s, several Feds & police agencies carried 6 shot 38s. They're no less effective today for most people's protection needs.
Yes, l also Carry a 38spc.2"-Snub nose 5 shot Rev. I use For Scott ammo. 90gr. Very Pointed Round TUI(Pat.) at 1350 fps. Very Effective.Try it you will be Astounded. I also Carry a Ruger EC9s-7+1 with Fort Scott-115gr.TUI ammo in it. at a proven 1175fps. It is Also Astounding Ammo. Superb !
You guys are great. That’s the best explanation I’ve ever heard about stopping power
My grandfather successfully defended himself and his establishment multiple times over the years with his Colt .38 snub nosed Police Special. Multiple wounds and more…
It’s a great shooter, pocket ready and one of the more accurate pistols I have ever used.
Bigger ain’t always better!
There are at least two .380 revolvers.
Always informative, thank you being there on so many topics, calibres and issues
Love you Massad! I've been reading your articles since the early 90's and you were way ahead of your time! Nearly everything you talked about in your magazine articles has either been found absolutely true or is current police practice! God bless you my friend and know that in this life you've probably saved hundreds of lives! -Kevin B. Arizona
You have my highest respect and admiration. As one of the most qualified people . I want to thank you for your time and expertise on the subjects. Thank you again.
If your going to take any advice on this subject, this is the man to listen to.
Thank you for the video and the real-life situational confirmation.
Great video. This guy has a wealth of knowledge to share.
I love the videos. All are great for that extra bit of information we need to help protect ourselves. Here is something to pass on.
"If you look for a fight you will find it." "If you can't remain calm and level headed then you've already lost." These are some of the quotes I've heard over the years from my various martial arts instructors. Carrying for self defense is no different. All of the same philosophies apply. While we want to protect ourselves, our family and our property, we must not be eager to have a confrontation that will end another's life. Doesn't mean we don't train for it. Self defense in any form is just that. Defense. To give yourself enough time to survive, escape, and get help. And yes that includes your attacker. Unless out number. Either way you get what I mean. You brain is the best weapon we have. Train hard and often. Stay safr.
Subscribed. This was absolutely on point. Not many "experts" on YT who talk like all the old heads at the academy who actually know what they're talking about.
I carry a Bersa thunder 380 with the underwood extreme defender ammunition. I have complete faith, no FTF or FTE, no malfunctions so far.
Me too, I’ve carried it for a decade and I use hydra-shocks ….I have a smaller hand size and not to mention it’s comfortable concealed. Love that weapon and because I’ve had it so long I can act without thinking too technical .
I suppose the follow up should be "Is a standard pressure 38 Special enough?"
I agree 100%
Thanks a lot for the good work on to clear what is a good gun for self defense. I'm following you since 1993 and I'm very satisfied with your training experience and videos.
Great show! My wife has just recently shot a 9mm. She asked me about next size down from that
380! Perfect timing
Thank you
Excellent video with Massad, as always. And I fully agree with the opinion of the 380 ACP. On situations, I will carry it, but for the most part 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, 357 Magnum, 10mm and 44 Magnum, are my go to calibers for self defense and duty pistols. The 380 can do the job, but ammo choice, bullet placement and being fully aware of its limitations are all key factors. I still confidently carry my Sig Sauer P238 380 ACP, from time to time for self defense when extra discrete carry is necessary.
Most of the time I carry the Glock 42 due to some of the issues you mention including back, hip and joint issues including shoulders as well.
A fellow LEO much younger than I carried a .380 and said he felt quite comfortable carrying it. His key was trading with it working on shot placement.
Being on the “fluffy” side now, it’s also easier to conceal. I appreciate your expertise and comments on the aspects of the .380. I currently use Hornady Critical Defense. I will be very selective about ammo.