When Raziel confronts the Elder God in his first chapter in Defiance, Raziel says a line that has stuck with me for years now: Enough of your sermonizing! Are you trying to bore me into submission? Why must this game go on? We both know what you are. You're no better than the vampires you so despise; a voracious parasite, cloaking its appetite in a shroud of righteousness!
I mean imagine telling God *to his face* he's no more than a narcissistic manipulative parasite than he claims humanity to be. And He literally can't do anything to get rid of you because he was never as all powerful as He lead humanity to assume. Catharsis incarnate
@@tuckernutter Conan kind of did the same thing before he went into battle. "Crom, I have never prayed to you before - I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad, Why we fought or why we died. No, all that matters is that two stood against many. That's what's important. Valor pleases you, Crom, so grant me one request - Grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, then the Hell with You!"
Elder God: "You cannot destroy me Kain, I am the engine of life itself. The Wheel will turn, the plague of your kind will be purged from this world... ...and on that inevitable day, your wretched, stagnant soul will finally be mine!" Kain: "In the meantime, you'd best burrow deep."
Now that his vision has been cleansed and he weilds a weapon that's capable of harming a creature as powerful as the Elder God, he can spew all the comebacks he wants. I'm not stopping him. Lol!
Lord Kain is the king of before killing one-liners "But I am dead" "I have live long enough to dispose of you" "You dare imagine what I think" "Then go to him"
@@KatherinaBathory I rank him up there with Duke Nukem in the way of video game one liner pros, although Kain is easily one notch above Duke. While Duke's one liners ("Duke-isms") are usually badass, witty wise guy remarks, which are always good for a laugh, Kain's are just as badass yet also poetic and philosophical at the same time, as well as being serious direct threats. Kain beats Duke by a landslide.
**Raziel enters the Spirit Forge room in the Vampire Citadel, the Elder Gods tentacles burst from the ground** Raziel: I should have known id find you here... Elder God: Here and everywhere. Now and always. I am the wheel and its turning. I am the circle of life and death. Raziel: ...and I am beginning to think the vampires committed suicide only to escape your voice. This exchange near the end of Defiance is even better. Still makes me giggle, even after all these years.
I like the idea of him being some extraterrestrial invader. His selfish desire to feed throws the world out of balance and is the perfect example of a a foreign parasite entities doing
i like thinking that the cycle of life and death was really a reincarnation aspect of the world, till the et invader found it and started leeching off of it
On the other hand, perhaps he really is what he claims. God doesn't equal perfect, just look at Greek gods and their ridiculous levels of hubris. It's entirely possible that the importance of Elder's function and power over the temporally-impaired mortals got to his "head" and his ego spiraled out of control over time.
When raziel is purified he probably fully sheds the elder God's influence, meaning the souls he consumes go directly to directly to the wheel. They do not pass the elder god, and do not give him $200 lol. That could also mean when the soul reaver injures the big squid, it siphons away its spiritual energy back into the world.
"The spiritual structure of the world was based on the philosophy of Gnosticism, the belief that the cosmos is ruled by a malevolent “pretender” god, that humans are prisoners in a spiritual lie, and that mankind’s struggle is a fight for free will in the face of seemingly insurmountable Fate." - Amy Hennig :)
@@madhero9915 Gnosctisc believed that there is real God and false god (demiurge yaldabaoth). In this worldview, God create what is perfect and eternal and 'false god' create material world of imperfection and impermanence. (sorry for my english :) )
I think satanism is when you praise separation from God and reject spiritual realm. Gnostics rejects material world because their goal is to return to God. That's why gnostics were percieved as heretics. Christianity/Islam/Judaism say that God create THIS world. Gnostics says otherwise.
I think the assessment that the Elder God conspired to release the Hylden is incorrect. I do think he stoked the original conflict between the winged race and the Hylden for his benefit but when the winged race was cursed with immortality they became extremely distasteful to him - an anathema to his nature and hunger - and so he rejected them. It is important to remember that the Hylden cursed the winged race with immortality and vampirism at the moment of their defeat and banishment during the raising of the pillars. While these things might seem disjointed they are not and rather keenly intertwined. We know that the war between the Hylden and the winged race was due to their rejection of the religion propagated by the Elder God. They rejected the wheel of fate so worshiped by the race that would become the first vampires that the Elder God used it to spark a holy war between the two factions. He would stamp out those who rejected his faith - the Hylden - while feeding upon the carnage and death it created. When the Hylden "cursed" the winged race with immortality we might surmise that it wasn't just a poetic final blow at their enemy but rather something more. We know that the Hylden are gifted and talented in advancements beyond any other race in Nosgoth, including the winged race. And we know that they rejected the wheel of fate so completely that the Elder God manufactured a war to wipe them out. But why? Why do that if they were just as bound to the wheel of life, death, and rebirth as all other beings? The answer is simple: they weren't. The Hylden had achieved immortality prior to their banishment by the winged race - this is clear by their ability to "curse" others with a weaponized form of it - and this would have been the impetus that sparked the war between them, why the Elder God would have encouraged it so fervently. When the winged race emerged victorious the Hylden literally weaponized immortality against them, proving a horrifying blow against their dogmatic and religious beliefs by stripping the very things they worshiped away from them; mortality and the wheel of fate. It wasn't just 'poetic justice' but a crippling blow against the vampires and their genocidal dogma, making them polluted and abhorrent to themselves and the god they served. Furthermore, this explains why the Elder God turned on them so completely after the war with the Hylden; to him, they were just as abhorrent as the Hylden in their immortality, just as useless. But on top of all that there is something critical and indispensable that must be understood in light of these revelations, something that must be examined in this context that hides a deeper truth which may provide a clearer grasp of what is and has always been going on in the world of Nosgoth; the pillars. Everything - both literally and metaphorically - revolves around the pillars of Nosgoth but what do we know about them? We know that they were raised by the winged race in the final conflict with the Hylden. We know that they act as a lock that keeps the door closed against them, sealing them away in the demon dimension as long as they endure. We know that the health of the land itself is tied to the pillars too, for when they were corrupted and later destroyed Nosgoth withered and decayed. The Elder God would have us believe that Nosgoth's decline was due to Kaine and the rise of the vampires - stagnating the wheel of life - but there is no direct proof of this. Furthermore, the better the standing of the pillars - pre-corruption pillars compared to post-corrupted pillars compared to the fallen pillars - the Elder God seems to fair better the worse the pillar are and Raziel even states as much in Soul Reaver 2. He is larger in the future where the pillars have fallen and physically smaller in the distant past where we see the pillars in their pre-corrupted state. He tries to convince us that this is due to Kaine but I believe that is a lie; I believe the pillars have trapped him. The pillars were described by Janos Audron as a lock, "and the Reaver is the key". But a lock has a two-fold function; to keep things out but also to keep things in. In their war against the Hylden, the winged race devised and implemented a cataclysmic doomsday weapon against their foes - banishment. But why? Why not simply kill them down to the very last? You could argue that they held some ethical qualms about exterminated an entire race, though given their dogma and beliefs that would be very hard to swallow and there is no evidence to support it. A better explanation is that they couldn't because the Hylden had become immortal and were impossible to exterminate completely. This explains the pillars and why they do what they do; they make the barriers between Nosgoth and the other dimensions outside of it impassible. I believe that this goes far beyond just keeping the Hylden out of Nosgoth but prevents any extra-dimensional travel to or from there. This would have been an unforeseen consequence or outcome, the gravity of which no one would realize until far too late, including the Elder God. The Elder God is very much a Cthulhu-like entity - a horrifying extra-dimensional being that is not benevolent but is clearly self-motivated by its hungers. I believe that he is far less omniscient than he would have Raziel believe, especially due to his confinement to the dimension of Nosgoth after the raising of the pillars. I do not believe that the destruction of the pillars is an unfortunate consequence of the events he orchestrated but rather his true and ultimate goal. He seeks escape after his unintentional confinement within the dimension of Nosgoth, a confinement that occurred due to his own greed and shortsightedness. Like a predator confined to too small of an area, the Elder God withers within his confinement due to fewer and fewer souls to feed upon. He stokes conflict which creates more death and sustenance for him but within his confinement it is an unsustainable equation and one that ultimately leads to starvation. But for a being such as the Elder God this does not mean death but rather unending hunger, weakness, and suffering without end eternal. As the pillars keep the Hylden out so too do they trap the Elder God within, to slowly starve inside a prison of his own foolish making and crafted by those he used as ignorant puppets.
I honestly think, the only way to break the cycle of his influence.. is not in The Future. But rather The Past. Show The Vampires The Truth of Their God, before their senseless Purge and Banishment of The Hylden.
So why would the Elder God keep mentioning the pillars and wanting Kain killed? Either the pillars are just a trellis for him to climb out of the earth with and he's just growing over eons, or his machinations run so much deeper than the fanbase thinks and is just using the pillars to justify the pursuit of Kain. Maybe even not wanting Kains life in truth, only the events that result from hunting him in the same way Mortanius did in blood omen. Not really wanting him dead but sending people after him to kick off the events of the story
@@ajohnymous5699 if Kain falls, so do the pillars. He was the last guardian. The elder god wanted the pillars gone so he could be freed. That's why he wanted Raziel to kill Kain.
What I want to know is when the binding is broken why have the Hylden not returned physically? They just posses Janos and during SR2 demons are summoned to attack Raziel from what I assume the demon dimention despite the pillars still standing.
So the Elder God, had an OnlyFans account even before we putrid mortals conceived its creation in our selfish, narcissistic arrogance, for our sociopathic egos to be fed. If that's not a time paradox on a fourth wall level break, I dunno what is.
I always loved how in a way Raziel's journey mirrored young Kain's. He is destroyed only to be raised and manipulated and in the end has to make the ultimate sacrifice The only difference is unlike Kain, Raziel chooses integrity.
Yes, all the voice actors do such an amazing job. I used to replay blood omen on my psp when I was younger. Now I sometimes listen to the voice lines before falling asleep. They dont make games like these anymore.
I really don't think Kain made an unwise choice based on the track record of the characters surrounding him after his death that were asking him to top himself.
If Kain had accepted the sacrifice, things would not have gone better. Aside from the Elder god being able to do as he wished without anyone or anything to get in his way- the pillars had been made by and for vampires. Once there were no more, inevitably the pillars would fail. After that, the hylden show up- which means one giant genocidal war when they realize humans are just as much puppets of the elder as the vampires were. This is more or less exactly what the elder wanted all along. two entire races fighting eachother to extinction, with itself positioned above the wheel, ready to devour their souls as they died.
I think its a Nosgoth native from even much more ancient days. The last of his kind. Full head cannon: his race originally didn't need a lot to survive but over time, one or many wanted more. They began to cannibalize each other. When his race was gone, he searched for more and found the wheel or where the wheel exists. He couldn't eat all of passed through the wheel, but he could grow off of what came through. Thousands of years later, he was spread throughout the world encouraging war.
@@TheOldWarden The voice of Moebius has to be able to give both a harsh and commanding tone; and a sly, manipulative, faux charm tone. Charles Dance can clearly do the former, but I haven't heard him do the latter, and I have trouble imagining it.
I don't know where I got the idea, but always had the impression that the pillars (at least at some point) where actually piercing through the elder god, keeping him in place, preventing him from moving or possibly escaping.
The pillars were the prison of the hylden and the key to Nosgoth rich spiritual energy so it is fair to say that the Elder leeches directly from the wound
There's a SR2 raziel line in which he accuses Elder of looking like he's trying to tear down the pillars single-handedly with entwined tantacles. For a while i had the impression the pillars formed a prison cell for EG, but the "bars" would have only been a semi circle not a full enclosure. Eh.
@@larrymcmacarroon9529 Elder is hungry. He wants the Pillars down, because he wants another species worth of food back on his menu. Imagine how buttblasted he must had been with the outcome of the ancient war - one species effectively became immortal, the other yeet'd from this plane of existence, effectively taking both off his menu.
@@TheKain202 "He wants the Pillars down, because he wants another species worth of food back on his menu." Nope because the Hylden were most likely immortal, they were not bound to the wheel in any way like many other creatures in Nosgoth, even if they weren't immortal.
This video just made my day. I think the Elder God has the same nature as Raziel and all creatures on the Spectral Realm. As we see, beings in this realm are predators that need to feed themselves with souls, he might be the oldest one of those creatures and the “apex predator” in the food chain. Edit: It's interesting to see how many points of view and opinions we do have here. I don't own the truth so feel free to disagree and debate about it. I wish I could have this conversation personally while having a beer LOL.
@marcus24000 Apex means top, nothing further. If you were the top predator and didnt need to hunt why would you? Why waste your energies with effort when you can just manipulate something else to hunt for you. Your conmen analogy is just kinda odd, doesnt really fit at all. If you want an example take the T-Rex. It was an apex predator that usually just scared other dinosaurs away from prey that they already killed. Easy free food is always the goal.
@marcus24000 the elder and all creatures of the spectral realm are soul eaters and that’s why he manipulates the whole Nosgoth, to provide him souls. Raziel said that many times along the game. That’s why he wants Kain dead, but also the vampires, the sluaghs and the hylden. All those creatures were competitors at some point. And you are right about his weak spot. Kain may find it on the Dark Prophecy game. But we might never know.
Fantastic video! Some sides to the Elder God that I never really thought of to be honest. Any time I see something like this I immediately want to play the whole series again xD
In game: underground, beneath the seat of the pillars, there is a phylactery; a colossal urn jug in the Nosgoth caves. In two games, adjacent to this huge unexplained jug is the elder god deeper along the cavern adorned with his sucker marks. The thing squeezing the pillars came from that urn; whoever cooked up it up knows how old the 'elder-god' really is: and that he's an amorphous bored liar.
My take: Elder was a spectral star child drawn to Nosgoth long before the pillars were built, because he's timeless so he knew they WOULD be built, and once the Pillars were raised he was able to use that dimensional gate to enter the material world and start growing. When he's done growing he'll be everywhere. He'll be the planet. His transition into the physical world complete, he'll be ready to burst forth everywhere, kill all life, AND survive it..... because souls won't need to be reborn anymore into the world if He's replaced the world---souls will just transit through him in a circular buffet path. The planet will be a vampire. Which is why he wants the Pillars gone, because the pillars are the stake that can be driven through the planet's heart to kill him. Kain! Kain killed the world off too early with his necro empire, before Elder God was ready to start the Armageddon himself, effectively starving EG and threatening to Pillar-Gank the god any millennia now. It'd end with Kain hacking through Elder's bodily organs, each the size of New Hampshire. Oh, by the way, ElderGod is the source of the blood curse. As soon as the pillars were functional he came through the dimensional portal, and his touch infected the ancients mentally bound to the pillars. Made them timeless too. Chow.
I suspect that the Elder played both sides of the Hyldan and Vampires and cursed them with the blood curse and immortality, having humans hunting them down as they are a great threat that won't go away. The motive being that Hyldan souls were denied to the Elder due to the Vampires and they are immortal in their banishment according to blood omen 2. He has ways to destroy the vampires which would bring the Hyldan back and their souls sustain him after they return and can die again in Nosgoth. I suspect there is something to your theory but needs Hyldan souls as well as human and vampire for his ultimate plan to come to fruition.
I thought the Hylden cursed the winged beings with the blood curse as a last "fuck you" for banishing them, because they knew their god will stop speaking to them. I mean the Hylden found a way to become immortal and didnt believe in the elder god> so the elder god send the winged beings to banish and destroy them, after the winged beings became immortal > the elder god send the humans to kill them all off.
To me he's not timeless, he's just thrived long enough, so it seems he was always there, but its possible to trace his origin as a mere bug because of the fact he grows, and he's obviously worried about losing his susteaneance or being discovered and possibly killed. He's in fact an apex predator that relies on psychological manipulation of humans and takes advantage of human techologies, such as time travel. And in a sense, all predators are parasites.
@@daccount1994 I'm kind of curious about the relationship it has with the Hylden. You've got him wanting Raziel to kill Kain but you even have the god suggesting to Kain to try and stop this by killing Raziel, who we learn to be the champion of the Hylden in their prophecy. Sure you have Moedbius talking about how they would deal with them but this false god knows they would fail. I wish they made a true final game, I'd have liked to have seen what this beings true deal was.
Oh man I wasn't expecting another character study! Excited to watch this one. My expectation would have been for Kain, purified of Nupraptor's madness, to be able to bring new guardians to serve the pillars and defeat the Elder God
Well.. no. Because the Soul Reaver (with Raziel in it) is the only thing that can truly harm the Elder God. I always hoped in a sequel that he would kill the Elder God though :p
I think Raziel was indeed created by the Elder God or at least corrupted his essence and resurrection simply because Raziel had a strong connection with him, whenever Raziel consumes a soul the Elder also consumes it, in SR1 and SR2 the conduits in which Raziel can manifest himself in the material realm are granted by the Elder, when Raziel openly defiances him, the elder takes away the conduits resulting in Raziel possesing cadavers. Also the Elder wins with him a wild card who can shuffle the game which he tries to shuffle in his benefit.
My theory whether Raziel was revived by the ender god or not, is very simple. A thing that isn't hugely talked about thing about the vampires in the games. Ancients would grow old and die (But over thousands of years) Once they were cursed with what we perceive as a vampire, blood thirst they gained immortality. I'd like to turn everyones attention to the scene in which Janos gets revived, Once the heart is restored into his chest. Did anyone spot how Janos started healing? WITHOUT Raziel's intervention? His chest literally starts recovering almost immediately - and its before the reaver(?) flash of light jump started Janos, his rib cage actually starts closing back up before this. Implying, Vampires are like 'closed circuits' They will continue as long as they are 'complete' When it comes to Kains vampire empire, The vampires in the game could only be killed by : Sunlight/Water/Fire - Impaling. Fire will kill the body outright, but water is a grey zone. I remember if they come into contact with it, they will practically burn up completely. But lets say the bodies in the game engine had a physics rag-doll style, you could push them about a bit. What if you moved them out of the water? Well... Dumahim actually answered this, they directly will come back to life. Sunlight and fire, seem to be the only two real ways for a person to kill a vampire in that age. Other than Raziel and the soul reaver. Let's make an observation. Janos, and the ancient vampires are blue skinned. Vorador and Kain are both green-skinned. Raziel and brothers as well as all offspring* Are all grey/white skinned. Implying their skin colour didnt change from when they were made into a vampire. This easily tells us how the vampire was made. Janos was a natural born vampire. Vorador and Kain were humans, who were ALIVE when they were given the gift, they evolved and became green-skinned. Raziel and co - Were dead before revival. So I come back to the first question, Was Raziel revived? or did he just awaken? Definitively? Well... in the context of SR1, if a vampire dies, and their soul inhabits the underworld long-enough they evolve/adapt to the spectral realm. Raziel was in there for several centuries. Trivia - IF you kill a vampire, but don't feed on their soul, in some areas (It's not a huge advertised feature) they will actually become vampire wraiths. That more than leads me to believe Raziel revived himself. He adapted to the spectral realm. But the Elder god is known (from defiance) he has the ability to grant spectral realm dwellers the ability to go into the material world. through manipulation and control over Raziel. it gets Raziel to commit genicide and single handedly kill every vampire he sees.
I think the first time you come across a wraith is where is where there is preburnt vampire, when you switch realms, to get through the church thing(iirc) it's your first wraith encounter.
Loved this vid. I'm a massive LoK fan, and always love hearing any and all viewpoints and lore that I can. While any hope for a series ending is nearly impossible, I do someday hope for a HD remaster so I can once again trod nosgoth and listen to Simon, Michael, Tony, Rene, and the rest of the amazing voice cast again, and relive the story over and over again. History abhors a paradox, but it cherishes this; one of the greatest game series of all time. (in my humble opinion)
Hey thanks for making this video. While I could easily follow every other characters story it seems I failed to truly comprehend the Elder God and his role in the story. Thank you for shining new light on this series for me.
Oh man i really love your Legacy of Kain Videos - these deep character dives really make me want to play the games again - i forgot how exceptional the writing an voice acting was.
How is this lines, and this writing so fucking good? EVERY single dialog is a fucking masterpiece, I could just play every single cutscene from entire series and just listen to the words this character says. Jesus christ, its actually hurts knowing that any games even will be close to this level of writing.
God.. i love this series and everything about it.. Great video.. I always favoured the idea that when Kain sees raziel's Wings.. he knew he had to sacrifice him for what he knew about the prophecies... i don't know how but in his Centuries of Reign he must've learned about it
The Chronoplast. We don't know when Kain had access to it, maybe it was before he raised his lieutenants and he always knew what had to be done or maybe it was after and he knew that it was his destiny all along.
@@WisteriaNerium Yeah something along the line.. maybe he knew that one of his lieutenants wold fullfill the role of the Prophecies but didn't knew which one it would be... and as Raziel was his right hand.. it must've hurt.. He certainly didn'd care when the others evolved and surpasses hin in some regards... like being able to enter the spirit world to pass solid objects, immunity to water etc.. but raziel growing wings triggered him so much he killed him the most cruel way? seems unlikely
Nice video! I get the H.P.Lovecraft vibe as as well must be the tentacles and living inside the cave. So in other words, that creature is just a lying giant squid claiming to be God and through the entire serie he tries to manipulate Raziel because he comes from the ancient vampire race (same as Janos Audron) which in Soul Reaver 2 we learn about their curse and how they're out of the wheel of fate thus they have a free will; these valuable information about Raziel nature was never revealed to to him by that creature but he found it on his own by going to the past, in other words the curse that was once bestowed upon the ancient vampire race set them free as well which kinda explain why Raziel would've risen without that lying creature anyway.
On a more pop culture level, he could crudely be described as a kind of Unicron, Chthon, and Shuma Gorath rolled into one (the latter two being Marvel villains inspired by HP Lovecraft).
Sorry to reply after a year, but I'd also like to add a tidbit that all discussions about Raziel rising seem to forget. Vampire souls on Soul Reaver 1 turn to wraiths if not devoured. It's even built into the game itself, like by stabbing a vampire and leaving it alone, then coming back later in the spirit realm it's a wraith. Picking up the weapon you stabbed it with, and it rises with the ability to drain your soul. Dumah is the best example of this. Raziel would have risen no matter what, because he's a vampire who's soul becomes a wraith. Being in the Abyss when he rose, he gained all the powers the squid claims to have granted him. The Elder God was lying the whole time.
Theory: I think the Hylden had known about the true nature of the Elder God. They were probably his original worshippers. As they became advanced and unlocked immortality, they were rejected by him, and in turn refused to worship him once they noticed his flaws. As this happened, the Elder God chose to guide Vampire race. Using them to kill the immortal beings that rejected death, and thus his hunger. Unfortunately for the Vampire race, they cursed with immortality and a hunger as revenge before being banished. Seeing this, the Elder God did the exact same thing to the Vampires and instead switched to the humans to repeat the same process of slaughter. One of the things that leads me to this belief is in how advanced each race is prior to these wars. Hylden seem to have had both advanced industrial technology and sorcery. The Vampires were pre industrial and used advanced sorcery, and then humans with their primitive medieval technology and some moderate sorcery. I think he fosters each race with the technology of the prior one. Building the up over centuries so they can topple the der ones. If this is the case, how long has he been playing this game of herding his supply of soul food here?
One small thing they were never immortal hylden either vampires before the war. Hylden cursed vampires by making them not being able to make babies die and they had urge to feast on blood making them human enemies hylden also are immortal due to vampires banishing them to hylden realm it sustains them
@@killert41 You sure? The games didn't really explain the relationship prior to the war. The one thing we do know is that they controlled immense technology and sorcery, being able jumpstart an early medieval society into the industrial age. The technology was not only created before that but it was built before their exile according to the imprisoned inventor that Kain interacted with in in Blood Omen 2. That's part of the reason why I developed this theory. But it is just a theory. based off the interconnected plots of the games.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the elder not being being responsible for raziels resurrection as I remember raziel saying this and the elder going silent and not responding to this and as you said that he instead did latch onto raziel like a parasite and took a portion off each soul that raziel would consume
Fascinating. You could make the case that the Elder God is only omnipresent in temporal paradoxes. Time isn't moving forward it's been essentially hijacked and forced into a perpetual wheel. Yet, entropy can only increase in an isolated system and errors eventually will eventually break the wheel no matter how many timelines are looping.
A cool video man. I hope you continue these. LoK is one of my fave game series. I regards to your theory about Raziel reviving anyway because of his destiny; maybe the power of time, destiny, and fate is what revived him. But because the Legacy of the Reaver can shift around time it's inevitable power source would have to be immutable by time. Which could be why Raziel has free will?
Raziel only gets his free will after encountering Kain at the pillars for the first time. When the Soul Reaver shatters on his skull and the Wraith Blade attaches itself to his arm - he becomes a walking paradox. Two instances of Raziel sharing the same time and space, from that point on, his every step is capable of changing fate.
Just found this channel. I'm not usually onto watching video game lore outside of the video games. But soul reaver has been a gem I forgot about until now. Gonna play it now.
Until Alastair Duncan took over while Tony Jay is still the voice of the Elder God before he died. If Aspyr does remaster all five of the games, I hope Alastair will return to voice Mortanius again while Corey Burton voices the Elder God, And Tony Jay, Paul Lukather, Earl Boen, And Rene Auberjonois will be memorial Easter Eggs.
@@clintjones92515Although I don’t know who will take over for the late Tony Jay as the voice of Zephon in the remastered collection(In the future). Corey Burton is perfect for the Elder God, And Alastair Duncan should return to voice Mortanius.
Clever Hylden.. cursing Vampires with immortality so that the Elder turns on them.. and eventually attempts to return the Hylden back to the world only for a number of souls.
Strictly Fantasy, I just came to know your video about the Elder God (I already saw some of yours before but not this one) and noticed you used one of my pictures in it (The Great War: The Decision of the Council of the 9 by DameKlaudia). I noticed as well you mentioned the origin of it in the description and I am thankful for your respect for others' works !!! You make an excellent job and I am glad you used my stuff for it!! Congratulations!
You've done it again. Amazing! You need to get Squeenix and them to let you voice the documentary series. More , More. So many characters left. I can't wait.
I love these Legacy of Kain videos you are doing. Even after all these years still one of my fav series, and I think it is deserving of a complete remaster. Can just re-use all the dialogue from the previous games
This was a fantastic video. Its great to know there are others who probably used a vcr to record the game stoy betas just to pour over it and understand. But being one man you do not always think of all avenues. Your perspective definitely added to my understanding. I hope someday they finish this story
Man i know you made these 2 years ago but wow @StrictlyFantasy these videos are brilliant! LoK was a big part of my early years, a masterpiece WAY AHEAD of its time in terms of storytelling
I didn't know the story in such *detail* This dude makes an amazing job trying to keep the series alive Maybe 1 day we will get a sequel or remaster or remake hopefully We need more fans to be heard
Loved the video, the only issue with watching these kind of videos about LoK is that I get nostalgic and I remember there's no more games :-) thanks a lot for sharing these.
"You think you have defeated me, Kain? I exist in places you cannot find." This line speaks volumes I feel. It teems with power and there is a definite lovecraftian feel to it I think.
the EG is Atemporal(Doesnt exist in a single point in time) meaning that defeating him at any point in history is ultimately pointless unless you cna sever his connectino ot the wheel. the Purified Reaver thru being the only thnig that can actually hurt him is the only menas that have a chance at doing this.
@@Teixas666 I also took it to mean he exists in many, if not all realms of existence, most of which Kain wouldn't be able to touch him in. The Soul Reaver, imbued with Raziel's soul allows him to kill things from the spectral plane, as well as the physical one, but I think there may be more than just two realms.
It think that The Elder God is a part of the wheel of fate. However I think he in his many years of timeless and deathless existence has made him start undercutting his returns. He is the master of his facet of the world and he could do as he pleases with the wheel only because he is "above" Mortality.
I always thought that the Elder God was also trying to change its own fate. But despite its power and control over time, there are some things that even if can't change.
Definitely subscribed after this video. I'd like to have a conversation with you regarding my thoughts on the series, namely my opinion that Defiance was in fact the exact ending that the series deserved, and does wrap up the entire series very well despite never seeing the final confrontation.
I agree with this. I thought it was so cool that the final death of Hasha Gick (spelled wrong) was in Blood Omen 2 when young Kain kills him and closes the Hilden portal.
You've got it half right raziel was resurrected as a vampire wraith. Remember in the first soul reaver game it is explained that. When a vampire dies it's soul goes to the underworld. And if the vampires soul adapts to the underworld it becomes an eater of souls. But if you take out a spear from the dead vampire it's soul reaquires it's body. And can cyphon energy from raziel. The same thing happens to Dumah if you choose to. Shift to the spirit world in Dumahs throne room. You will see Dumah and he is indestructible in the spirit world. So yes Raziel is a vampire wraith and based on the logic. Put in place during the first game. Theoretically if Raziel's body was present he could re-enter his body. And have the same soul cyphoning ability.
If nothing else, the Elder God would likely be expending power to resurrect Raziel, so it makes sense that he would be hesitant to do so himself. But... personally, I think he probably did revive Raziel because he adheres to "fate" as long as it serves his purpose, and he knows that Raziel is fated to fight Kain. He probably saw an opportunity for something that benefited him and willingly spent the energy needed to keep Raziel from deteriorating further in the hopes of more meals along the way (which is exactly what he got by latching onto the unfortunate wraith).
this is unlikely as it doesnt actually benefitthe EG is any way to directly raise a creature he cannot control nor kill. Raziel was raised as a Wraith due ot Causality. Raziel Cannot perish before he can ensure he will be raised as a Vampire and then be consumed by the reaver and become the Spirit of the Soul Reaver. this is because if RAziel were ot perish before that one of 2 things would happen: 1: Raziel was never Raised as a Vampire; this is a problem because this would mean Raziel never had the opportunity to become a Wraith and be at the historical position of killing his Sarafan brother and himself in order ot provide Kain qith the bodies ot later be raised. 2: the Reaver was Never forged, as this is the only way Raziel would avert his ultimate fate both outcomes are Fatal paradoxes and for this reason when raziel wasexecuted at the abyss, History had ot intervene and REsolve this paradox: the soultion was to " Expel the irritant" aka: remove RAziel from the cycle of Life and Death. this made him Immortal but also made him the only creature in Nosgoth with True Free will.
Soul reaver was such an Amazing experience.. the voice of the elder good... after so many years Hearing it again my good... this game defined me... plz. Do more content.🙌🏻 grat job thank you for that 🙌🏻
I couldn’t agree more. So I hope Aspyr and Embracer Group will do that since there’s a Tomb Raider remastered collection coming in 2024. Update: Soul Reaver 1 & 2 are getting remastered.
So many look pass Defiance's Inner Chamber "designed not to keep those out, but rather to trap something within" the pillars are a weapon/defence against the elder too. He's not all about bringing the pillars down just for laughs. So far the elder displays the same powers as the pillar guardians that betrayed their duties for him he has a power over death like Mortanius we might see with Raziel's resurrection, but we definitely saw with Mobeius in defiance and Mobeius full timeline awareness we saw toward the end of Soul Reaver 2 when Mobeius youngest self referred to their future encounters in past tense... The elder doesnt really display anything other than their powers and a possible corruption that only a purified reaver can touch
In answer to where the elder god came from I think that given he is a squid like creature, it may have just been a small squid in the lake of the dead, who, at some point got sucked into the abyss & thus the spectral realm and changed like Raziel so that he had to feed on souls & so bound itself to the wheel like a barnacle - a plentiful food source. Remember how he describes himself as 'the hub of the wheel'. The spectral realm exists outside of time, which is how he is able to be omnipresent. With an inexhaustible food supply, he eventually grew bigger & bigger & more parasitic to the point where he was able to manipulate the wheel & all in the spectral realm. His influence thus then extended to the physical realm. Just my personal theory.
I wish we got a final chapter for this series. I think the Elder God was a predator like the Sluagh, but not from Nosgoth. I think it wouldn't have ever been explained where exactly it came from, but my feeling is that it would move through the spiritual plane and consume souls until it has exhausted its supply. Then move on, or enter some kind of hibernation or something and give life a chance to return to the corporeal realm. If we had gotten a final game, the main gimmick would be unlocking the new abilities of the Soul Reaver. In the second game, you unlocked elemental powers and at the end of Defiance, it gave Kain the power of true sight. Kain's original Soul Reaver didn't have any of these abilities because in every other version, the blade forcefully devoured Raziel. Only in Defiance does he sacrifice himself, thereby returning to Kain's service, and allowing Kain to uncover previously unknown facets of the blade. One of which, would be the ability to plane shift into the spiritual realm. I think you'd use the newfound abilities to hunt down the Elder God and in an attempt destroy it. There would be more time shenanigans, and you would end up at the beginning of the series where Ariel is murdered and Nuprator goes mad. I think it would be revealed that the elder God was the reason his madness infected the other pillars. Like he used his connection to the spirit plane and was the reason Ariel's soul was bound to the pillars in the first place, which caused the connection to happen. So, the idea would present itself that if you can kill the Elder god before he meddles in the corporeal plane this one time, then you restore balance like you were always meant to and set the time stream back the way it was originally supposed to be. The twist, though, is that if you do it this way, baby Kain would never be corrupted. Thus, this version of Kain you play as would cease to exist, because he was never supposed to in the first place. The Elder God wasn't supposed to exist. Nothing after Ariel's murder was supposed to exist the way it does. You, the player would be given the choice; Do you make the selfish choice and allow the creature to live? Thus condemning Nosgoth to the current cycle of time? Or do you kill it, and sacrifice yourself like the guardian of balance you're supposed to be? I'm sure the game would do a better job of building up to the final decision than I can. The story tellers were clever and did an excellent job of making you feel the weight of what was at stake. I dunno. Those are my thoughts.
I love that Raziel quips about telling Mobius he's worshipping a giant squid and whether or not that would shake his faith. In Defiance, he does just that and yep, it does.
I had ideas of the Elder God on story ideas in my imagination on how the Legacy of Kain story continued and concluded. In my imagination after Defiance. Kain is visited by the voice of a new oracle who tells Kain to meet him at the pillars. There this new Oracle who teleports Kain thousands of miles high above Nosgoth's atmosphere where a floating temple floats right above to where the pillars used to be. There Kain meets the Watcher. Nosgoth's first and last Guardian. The Guardian is the combination of thousands of souls from the predecessor to the successor for each generation it merges with. Though he has the form of a Human, he is not. For he merged with his successor as his means to live throughout the millions upon millions of years. He tells Kain that the Elder God is a celestial beast from the darker regions from the outermost regions fo the universe that drains the spiritual essence of each world it leeches off of and then moves to the next one. The Elder Guardian was chosen by the relic that will one day become the soul reaver blade to be its planets guardian and the powers gifted upon him by the powerful divine Virgin Mothers who each birthed the divine races of Nosgoth. The Humans, The Hylden, The Sluagh, and the Vampires. Each Race was brought down from grace and forgotten their powers entirely. The Guardian fought against the Elder with the powers of the relic gifted to him and with the help of the four Divine Mothers sacrificing their souls to the relic. The Guardian was given enough power to destroy the Lovecraftian alien and its Demons that it brought forth into the world, though the Guardian thought he destroyed the parasite. He was gravely mistaken when the beast left its essence onto Nosgoth's spectral plane where the creature will hide in the spectral world to grow and feed to regain the form that it once lost and with every soul it feeds it becomes more omniscient every time. As time went on the Guardian felt that his time as Nosgoth's guardian was done and so relinquished the powers of the Guardianship to seven Vampires that he entrusted the relic to. Little did he know that when he left the world to explore his spirit across the cosmos. Only to find that the beast did not die, and it is his duty to come back to Nosgoth to help Kain finish the beast off with whatever knowledge and power he's got. That is how I imagine a continuation of Kain's story after Defiance.
I will let you know, that right now, the reaver exists in a condition, that is neither one or the other. As Raziel is in the last temple, the biggest of the all, hidden inside the soul reaver itself. Trapping Kain inside a time loop, that can only be broken by destroying the wheel on its axis.
Some detail to this is that the corruption and decay of the land might be the cause to the Elder God rather then the Pillars, since the Pillars were clearly build to keep the Hylden banished, so Kains choice never mattered apperently, the Elder God wants Kains death so the Hylden can return, a new race to feed on for there Souls, the Vampires were immortal, so they were not useful anymore as food since they stopped feeding him due the immortality. Soul Reaver 1 Era is a dead land, and with the Hylden coming back it would fill the land again with new life he can feed on. He uses he Pillars once again as excuse like with many other things, this is clear in how it is presented in Soul Reaver 2, how he keeps growing seemingly the more the Pillards decay, like he himself crushed and destroyed them. The Hylden not believe in him and his wheel but still are food to him due his Soul Reaver and Hunters he has like seen in Defiance. A parasite that clinged intself to the Pillars and the Wheel and feeds on it, no God, just a parasite as Raziel called him. Sad that we never goten a full conclusion to the series, that horrible Nosgoth game and that Dead Sun attempt which gladly never came to be not exist for me, i really hope somewhat we get a good conclusion or even a good reboot of the series, even that i am not a fan of reboots normally. It should stay close to the originals and fix and adjust outdated gameply really at best.
9:43 He absolutely was not responsible for Raziel's transformation. Raziel brings it up in Soul Reaver 2 saying something like, "Or did you simply discover me? Somehow indestructible and ethereal?" Raziel, being descended from the Hilden, is an indestructible soul. Just because he's killed doesn't mean he's gone.
Actually, the idea that he was in any way related to the Hylden was a misconception planted, for Raziel to take the bait. Prophecy muddied and made so vague, as to make it seem quite plausible that it was him. And a creature like the Elder God would do this. No. We see that the kind of power of the Reaver, and the ties of fate that surround it, are not something that is in the Elder God's Domain. Just the opposite infact. And it is that subtle divinity that makes Raziel's soul truly immortal. A power that exists outside of the understanding of the races that comprise Nosgoth. Even the keeper of the Reaver, Janos Audron, did not become affected by the Blood Thirst that ravaged the Ancient Vampires.
Interesting thoughts regarding the Elder God being a gigantic parasite. Frankly, I never trusted that gigantic wall of eyes and tentacles when I played Soul Reaver in the late nineties. It just gave me really bad vibes... Thanks for the video!
If u think about it hermaous mora from the elder scrolls series looks very similar to the elder God theure both green colored tentacle monsters with many eyes and they're both omnipresent gods of knowledge.
Just wow, i have watched your four Soul Reaver videos with great interest and can't wait for more about the other characters. Plus adding some fan art to your videos (i have never seen quite a few of them) gives the whole little project its own charm. =3
@Strictly Fantasy First I think Raziel was to rise without the "help" of the Elder "god" because of the Paradox of the Soul Reaver. Think about it since the beginning the Blade was firstly created as a Blood Reaver, and then it it was taken from a Time line by Moebious when it already had Raziel's soul imprisoned within. Then It was given to William the Just, followed by Moebius to repeat the action and give another to Kain and have them face each other. When Kain killed William, William's blade shattered because of the 2 coming from different timelines and having Raziel's soul simultaneously. When Kain had risen Raizel and Co, again Raziel and the blade were present at the same time and when he had Raziel cast out to the Lake, meant that Raziel was never to die because of simultaneously existing. THIS is what set him out of time, and it is the same with Janos Audron and his Heart which when Raziel ripped it off Kain and cast him out to the Demonic realm it kept him alive as the Hylden where Janos was thrown in BO2. Kain, Janos and Raziel were timeless paradoxes that transcended death. Also one thing that was overlooked in the rest of the games following SR was that Vampires when they die, they turn into soul wraiths seen in SR1, which was the fate of Raziel if he lingered in the Nether realm. Maybe the Elder god was one of these wraiths that overtime grew and grew in power, like being a dominant parasite. But yes also possible that it too came from space or another part of the nether realm. There are Pillars shown where Raziel arose, and the pillars show 3 images of a Multi eyed octopus creature seemingly arriving/appearing, followed by the creature seemingly morphing a humanlike appearance, and on the last image a Human like image. This pillar clued me in the 1st SR that the Elder god was not whom he was. Other pillars showed as if the Octupus creature grew, like a tumor or something. I always thought that Moebeius' tattoo was an hourglass but it was the Elder god's eye and that made me think that this time thing might be the Elder god siphoning the powers of the Time pillar from Moebious or sadly by accident Raziel fed the Elder god and provided him with the powers of time, essentially giving him his timeless powers smh
I always thought Raziel adapted the same way his brothers did to outside pressures. The fall into the abyss forced his evolution ahead, and if the Razelim still existed they would be blue and able to jump from material to spectral too. Also the Elder God doesn't seem able to see ahead, i think his mind and timeframe is bound to Raziels present even if his body is not.
nah , its only revealed later on but the reason why raziel was raised a wraith is because history could not allow him ot die otherwise it would go into a Paradox it could not recover from..
One thing about the The Elder God's size and influence in the first Soul reaver game. He is clearly struggeling at this time to gain enough sustenance, as the land is barren and that most of the souls that remain, are tied up in vampiric bodies. So how can he be so influential at this age, and actually have grown so much larger than in earlier ages? My best theory would be that he grew "fat" from the vampires culling and war aginst the humans, that happened before and after Kain established his empire. Anyone else have any other ideas for how he could have grown so large in an era(SR1) clearly defined by a lack of souls/sustenance?
I don't believe the Elder God wanted to free the Hylden per se, especially with the reason given here, to feed on their souls. He can't feed on Hylden souls, they are outside of the "wheel", that's precisely why there was a war with the vampires in the first place. His objective was much simpler: he wanted Kain dead. To pursue that goal he wouldn't mind the cost he would have to pay later. Moebius said this himself in his last scene at the forge, he said that the Hylden were just a minor inconvenience now that Kain (they thought) was dead.
I kinda agree, I have a different theory. The Elder God appears to thrive with the collapse of the pillars. Raziel notes this and he suspects that the Elder must have had something to do with it. He must have known that if the Hylden ever got out of the demon dimension they wouldn't have posed much of a threat to his plans because a young Kain was destined to be the ruler of Nosgoth so he would've dealt with them before making his empire. He might have not wanted to get them out per se but now that they got out he didn't had any problem with it because Kain and Raziel are just handing over their immortal souls to him and his archons.
Though I have a feeling that the Hylden would've been a lot more craftier than both Moebius and the Elder God might have anticipated, oh we shall never known because Dark Prophecy the sequel to Defiance was cancelled.
I think extended life, or use of life force, mutates life. Kain and his vampires mutate over millennia, and Raziel may have survived as a mutation - I know it's not canon but in Dead Sun the main vampire trained himself to re-make his corporeal form (in the trailer), maybe this process became known. If that is the case, how come the non-human vampires survived without mutations? Well, Janos's body created the black heart that Kain later used, his body remained imperishable and could be brought back to life once his heart was returned, so vampires mutate differently than humans or human-vampires. That's what solves the problem of what The Elder God is, a life form that feeds on life force mutated over time.
Gud stuff Was thinking u should do elder god vid after last one :3 Met ur channel some days ago on kain vid . I love lok saga & everthing about it & when people do stuff on it always made me happy , by meeting fans :) Mb do hylden next but then u needed 2 play bo2 or get footage somewhere. & dat game has more problems. I believe razeal just woke up after 500 years of burning next to the elder god and he took advantage it of it of his naivitie. Cuz my head cannon real vampire r imortal & need to hv their soul destroyed , like how dumah soul was in spetral realm until razeal remove the stakes on his body to kill him & take his soul. But dats my head cannon.
Yes, as you guessed Raziel was not resurrected by the Elder God, he was simply there when Raziel awoke and pretended to be his maker to control him. In SR2 Raziel unknowingly frees himself from the restrains of time and fate, and therefore from the omniscience of Moebius and the Elder God, by stabbing both his human self and blue self in the past with the Soul Reaver. By killing his human self he becomes his own maker and the architect of his own destiny. At the same time he creates a double time paradox since there are two Raziels and two Soul Reavers (the physical blade and the spiritual one in Raziel) in the same point in history. This means that he is successfully freed by the constraints of time, and even if he is still compelled by his nature as the Soul Reaver's soul to reunite with the blade at one point in the future, he cannot be foreseen. I think the reason Raziel could awake in the Abyss is because he was always (destined to be) the Soul Reaver's soul even before Kain shattered the blade on him, so by time he was simply not destined to die there. The fact he created a double time paradox made it so that he has always been free since the beginning so he could therefore create the time paradox that would free him. The Elder God could not be omnipresent in Nosgoth when the pillars were intact, but since he is simultaneously present in different time periods, he always knew that Raziel could free himself from his paths in time, and therefore not follow the moves that the Elder God knew Raziel would be making. The only moment in time Raziel was certain to be there and unaware of his time travels was his awakening in the Abyss, because that's a necessary main event. While he is in the future Nosgoth of SR1 he can track him at all times because the Pillars are not limiting his sight, but every other time in the past and present I think the opportunity to meet Raziel becomes only a probability, so the Elder God always seeks to control Raziel because he knows he is the only one who can escape from his sight at any moment. That is why in SR2 he waits at the base of the Pillars, since he knew Raziel had to go there. I think the Elder God always knew that Raziel will be reunited with the blade in Defiance and so he tries in different timelines to change the course of history every time he can meet Raziel by exercising his control over him. After all the Elder God is not so omnipotent as he wants to appear, like how the gnostic demiurge is said to be ignorant and blinded by his arrogance. The irony, for a being that has eyes everywhere, he can't see everything
I just found your channel and am so happy you're revisiting this series. Its a personal favorite of mine. And as for the elder God i believe he came from the stars and merely become locked here
I always liked the idea that the Hylden, in their search for immortality somehow brought the alien Elder God (or a piece of it) into Nosgoth, either from the demon dimension or some alien place. not understanding what it was either by accident or to used it to understand how to avoid death which is why it hated them. Thus in their quest for immortality, they sewed the seeds of their doom. It would also give a good reason as to how the first war started. The Hylden were summoning demons, all the Elder God needed to do was communicate that fact to the Vampires, warn them of a demon attack (that he may have been able to cause) and point the finger at the Hylden and their experiments. I also like the idea that because it is omnipresent, it doesn't quite grasp the linear nature of time is or has a strange perception of it, as only he and maybe Moebius seem to be able to "remember" the events of the already completed future, while existing in the past. I always found it strange that this omnipresent being, who exists in the dying future of Nosgoth, doesn't grasp that in somehow making Raziel, or trying to talk Raziel into killing Kain, it doesn't seem to change the end result. In every timeline (save maybe the last one) Nosgoth is condemned to decay. It's almost like the Elder gods perception of time, after the initial run of the timeline, follows the narration of the events. Thus, it doesn't grasp the finite nature of Nosgoth and that it's constant growth and devouring of life energy (if only to survive) over time is what is causing the world's decay, not the vampires who are existing apart from it. That maybe wherever it came from, the world keeps expanding infinitely and thus more keep dying, and it's growth matches the expansion that yes, balance is maintained, but on Nosgoth, it is an every growing cancer that will kill the host, by it's very nature. That it honestly thinks it is the way things are supposed to be.
My vote goes to that Elder God is some star faring creature who came long ago to Nosgoth as a parasite, almost as a locusts . When he devour all souls moves to another realm or planet and do the same thing
From reading Daniel Cabuco's forum posts and thinking about the games for years, the Elder god is the final form of a sluagh. "But the sluagh are dumb easy enemy fodder!" Yes, I know just hear me out. According to Daniel Cabuco, the Elder is still a very natural part of nosgoth, likening them to being more of a barnacle on a boat. It's stuck to Nosgoth and isn't really inclined or maybe even capable of going anywhere else. The sluagh are just like the Elder, in that they too can devour souls and, while yes being mostly dumb, are be capable of some intellegence. They have enough brains to hunt in groups, to ambush, and to even run away when they get too low on health. Perhaps the longer they're around and the bigger they get, the smarter they become as well. Growing all the way up to becoming the near omnipresent and omniscient Elder we know and love/hate today. "But the Elder brought Raziel back to feed on souls and destroy the vampires, what if he just made the sluagh?" 1) I'm kinda dubious to the idea that the Elder truly brought Raziel back to "life". Other vampires before him have come back as vampiric wraiths themselves, so it's not as if Raziel is really all that unique. Only the circumstances leading up to his resurrection are, as any vampire that was dead for a sufficient enough time could just pop back into their bodies if said bodies weren't destroyed. 2) It doesn't really dissuade my theory, namely because if the sluagh and the Elder are one and the same type of creature, then the Elder would just be propagating the species. I could see a lot of cannibalism taking place among them as well, which would explain why it's so rare to see one as big as the Elder is and why there isn't another one (if there ever were at all). Mind you, this is just a fan theory and with the series probably never getting any form of continuation or remake we'll probably never know. It's still fun to think and daydream about the series though.
The elder God has been the puppeteer and orchestrator of all this since day one. Edit: It is probably a human vampire itself that mutated over time and is bound to the pillars. So in theory, it could well be Raziel himself. Hence why it says so to raziel all the time that Raziel is bound to it for eternity. Could be mutated Raziel from tbe past that eventually found a way to revive its own corpse and use itself to get to kain. But perhaps didn't expect raziel animated corpse to have his own will. This could be an interesting theory to pursue and explore.
1111, a frequent number I see and also a number that represents our thoughts becoming reality. I believe this series will continue either as a reboot or a sequel to the previous games and will return with action/adventure gameplay.
I'm not sure that a reboot would do the game justice - unless it contained all the original dialogue with of course improved graphics & playability. I would love to see them wrap it up with Dark Prophecy (the unfinished final game) & then maybe go off on a few tangents, perhaps giving Vorador a game, telling the story of the vampire Raziel or going right back to the time of the ancient vampires. With the iconic Tony Jay having passed away, I don't know if it could ever be the same again.
It is worth noting that the biggest thing the Elder God incites across time is wars of genocide, both the Hyldin-Vampire war and then the various Sarafan purges, in order to create conflict and megadeaths which will release an untold amount of souls into the Spectral Realm. If we were to go back further with Kain to peer into the Ancient Vampire History before their curse, would we see more races and entities the Elder God trampled and lapped up around the wheel? The Vampire were already willing to enact a bloody crusade once against the Hyldin. How many creatures, cultures and deities died by their claws unknowingly championing a Parasite? I also wonder how ignoble of the Elder God's origin was before he attached himself to the Wheel of Life. Considering his particular hatred for the Sluagh as vermin, I'd like to think he isn't just furious that they exist without feeding him - but that he once was just one of those lowly feral soul scavengers that got lucky and found a source of food with little competition. And then just grew, mentally and physically over eons.
"Go now ! Play out your pitiful rebellion, and take your place among the destroyed, the used and the damned. But know this - you are mine for eternity. You have always been, and will always be, my soul reaver ..." This line always give mad chills 🥶
When Raziel confronts the Elder God in his first chapter in Defiance, Raziel says a line that has stuck with me for years now: Enough of your sermonizing! Are you trying to bore me into submission? Why must this game go on? We both know what you are. You're no better than the vampires you so despise; a voracious parasite, cloaking its appetite in a shroud of righteousness!
I mean imagine telling God *to his face* he's no more than a narcissistic manipulative parasite than he claims humanity to be. And He literally can't do anything to get rid of you because he was never as all powerful as He lead humanity to assume. Catharsis incarnate
The script to these games were top notch. We will never get anything like this ever again.
@@tuckernutter Conan kind of did the same thing before he went into battle.
"Crom, I have never prayed to you before -
I have no tongue for it.
No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad,
Why we fought or why we died.
No, all that matters is that two stood against many.
That's what's important.
Valor pleases you, Crom, so grant me one request -
Grant me revenge!
And if you do not listen, then the Hell with You!"
Sounds a lot like career politicians.
@@sirdark1381 my thoughts exactly
Elder God: "You cannot destroy me Kain, I am the engine of life itself. The Wheel will turn, the plague of your kind will be purged from this world...
...and on that inevitable day, your wretched, stagnant soul will finally be mine!"
Kain: "In the meantime, you'd best burrow deep."
Kain is always great with the comebacks.
Now that his vision has been cleansed and he weilds a weapon that's capable of harming a creature as powerful as the Elder God, he can spew all the comebacks he wants. I'm not stopping him. Lol!
his response is so Nietzschean LOL
Lord Kain is the king of before killing one-liners
"But I am dead"
"I have live long enough to dispose of you"
"You dare imagine what I think"
"Then go to him"
@@KatherinaBathory I rank him up there with Duke Nukem in the way of video game one liner pros, although Kain is easily one notch above Duke. While Duke's one liners ("Duke-isms") are usually badass, witty wise guy remarks, which are always good for a laugh, Kain's are just as badass yet also poetic and philosophical at the same time, as well as being serious direct threats. Kain beats Duke by a landslide.
"And if I tell Mobius he is worshipping a giant squid... do you think his faith will falter?" That line makes me laugh every time I hear it. :D
It's pretty cool foreshadowing too.
I absolutely love this line as well.
Turns out yes, yes it will
**Raziel enters the Spirit Forge room in the Vampire Citadel, the Elder Gods tentacles burst from the ground**
Raziel: I should have known id find you here...
Elder God: Here and everywhere. Now and always. I am the wheel and its turning. I am the circle of life and death.
Raziel: ...and I am beginning to think the vampires committed suicide only to escape your voice.
This exchange near the end of Defiance is even better. Still makes me giggle, even after all these years.
Why did it make you laugh?
RIP Tony Jay
Amen to Tony jay
Beyonder from Spider-Man proves you don’t need a million voices just one great voice that works perfectly for omnipotent super beings
#dicksout
Best Voice Actor to ever lived
I don’t think they can do a remake simply because of Tony. He can’t be replaced. No one can play the elder god better.
I like the idea of him being some extraterrestrial invader. His selfish desire to feed throws the world out of balance and is the perfect example of a a foreign parasite entities doing
i like thinking that the cycle of life and death was really a reincarnation aspect of the world, till the et invader found it and started leeching off of it
On the other hand, perhaps he really is what he claims.
God doesn't equal perfect, just look at Greek gods and their ridiculous levels of hubris. It's entirely possible that the importance of Elder's function and power over the temporally-impaired mortals got to his "head" and his ego spiraled out of control over time.
The "Elder God" was something else still haven't figured it out
Parasites like Kain?
What if it's not extraterrestrial but extradimensional?
When raziel is purified he probably fully sheds the elder God's influence, meaning the souls he consumes go directly to directly to the wheel. They do not pass the elder god, and do not give him $200 lol. That could also mean when the soul reaver injures the big squid, it siphons away its spiritual energy back into the world.
Hmmm, never thought of that possibility!
😂
"The spiritual structure of the world was based on the philosophy of Gnosticism, the belief that the cosmos is ruled by a malevolent “pretender” god, that humans are prisoners in a spiritual lie, and that mankind’s struggle is a fight for free will in the face of seemingly insurmountable Fate." - Amy Hennig
:)
That sound almost like spiritual satanism, witch god is a lie etc.
@@madhero9915 Gnosctisc believed that there is real God and false god (demiurge yaldabaoth).
In this worldview, God create what is perfect and eternal and 'false god' create material world of imperfection and impermanence.
(sorry for my english :) )
I did not even know what Gnosticism was.
I think satanism is when you praise separation from God and reject spiritual realm. Gnostics rejects material world because their goal is to return to God.
That's why gnostics were percieved as heretics. Christianity/Islam/Judaism say that God create THIS world. Gnostics says otherwise.
Interesting topic: ;)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism
I think the assessment that the Elder God conspired to release the Hylden is incorrect. I do think he stoked the original conflict between the winged race and the Hylden for his benefit but when the winged race was cursed with immortality they became extremely distasteful to him - an anathema to his nature and hunger - and so he rejected them. It is important to remember that the Hylden cursed the winged race with immortality and vampirism at the moment of their defeat and banishment during the raising of the pillars. While these things might seem disjointed they are not and rather keenly intertwined.
We know that the war between the Hylden and the winged race was due to their rejection of the religion propagated by the Elder God. They rejected the wheel of fate so worshiped by the race that would become the first vampires that the Elder God used it to spark a holy war between the two factions. He would stamp out those who rejected his faith - the Hylden - while feeding upon the carnage and death it created. When the Hylden "cursed" the winged race with immortality we might surmise that it wasn't just a poetic final blow at their enemy but rather something more. We know that the Hylden are gifted and talented in advancements beyond any other race in Nosgoth, including the winged race. And we know that they rejected the wheel of fate so completely that the Elder God manufactured a war to wipe them out. But why? Why do that if they were just as bound to the wheel of life, death, and rebirth as all other beings? The answer is simple: they weren't.
The Hylden had achieved immortality prior to their banishment by the winged race - this is clear by their ability to "curse" others with a weaponized form of it - and this would have been the impetus that sparked the war between them, why the Elder God would have encouraged it so fervently. When the winged race emerged victorious the Hylden literally weaponized immortality against them, proving a horrifying blow against their dogmatic and religious beliefs by stripping the very things they worshiped away from them; mortality and the wheel of fate. It wasn't just 'poetic justice' but a crippling blow against the vampires and their genocidal dogma, making them polluted and abhorrent to themselves and the god they served. Furthermore, this explains why the Elder God turned on them so completely after the war with the Hylden; to him, they were just as abhorrent as the Hylden in their immortality, just as useless.
But on top of all that there is something critical and indispensable that must be understood in light of these revelations, something that must be examined in this context that hides a deeper truth which may provide a clearer grasp of what is and has always been going on in the world of Nosgoth; the pillars. Everything - both literally and metaphorically - revolves around the pillars of Nosgoth but what do we know about them? We know that they were raised by the winged race in the final conflict with the Hylden. We know that they act as a lock that keeps the door closed against them, sealing them away in the demon dimension as long as they endure. We know that the health of the land itself is tied to the pillars too, for when they were corrupted and later destroyed Nosgoth withered and decayed. The Elder God would have us believe that Nosgoth's decline was due to Kaine and the rise of the vampires - stagnating the wheel of life - but there is no direct proof of this. Furthermore, the better the standing of the pillars - pre-corruption pillars compared to post-corrupted pillars compared to the fallen pillars - the Elder God seems to fair better the worse the pillar are and Raziel even states as much in Soul Reaver 2. He is larger in the future where the pillars have fallen and physically smaller in the distant past where we see the pillars in their pre-corrupted state. He tries to convince us that this is due to Kaine but I believe that is a lie; I believe the pillars have trapped him.
The pillars were described by Janos Audron as a lock, "and the Reaver is the key". But a lock has a two-fold function; to keep things out but also to keep things in. In their war against the Hylden, the winged race devised and implemented a cataclysmic doomsday weapon against their foes - banishment. But why? Why not simply kill them down to the very last? You could argue that they held some ethical qualms about exterminated an entire race, though given their dogma and beliefs that would be very hard to swallow and there is no evidence to support it. A better explanation is that they couldn't because the Hylden had become immortal and were impossible to exterminate completely. This explains the pillars and why they do what they do; they make the barriers between Nosgoth and the other dimensions outside of it impassible. I believe that this goes far beyond just keeping the Hylden out of Nosgoth but prevents any extra-dimensional travel to or from there. This would have been an unforeseen consequence or outcome, the gravity of which no one would realize until far too late, including the Elder God.
The Elder God is very much a Cthulhu-like entity - a horrifying extra-dimensional being that is not benevolent but is clearly self-motivated by its hungers. I believe that he is far less omniscient than he would have Raziel believe, especially due to his confinement to the dimension of Nosgoth after the raising of the pillars. I do not believe that the destruction of the pillars is an unfortunate consequence of the events he orchestrated but rather his true and ultimate goal. He seeks escape after his unintentional confinement within the dimension of Nosgoth, a confinement that occurred due to his own greed and shortsightedness. Like a predator confined to too small of an area, the Elder God withers within his confinement due to fewer and fewer souls to feed upon. He stokes conflict which creates more death and sustenance for him but within his confinement it is an unsustainable equation and one that ultimately leads to starvation. But for a being such as the Elder God this does not mean death but rather unending hunger, weakness, and suffering without end eternal. As the pillars keep the Hylden out so too do they trap the Elder God within, to slowly starve inside a prison of his own foolish making and crafted by those he used as ignorant puppets.
I honestly think, the only way to break the cycle of his influence.. is not in The Future. But rather The Past. Show The Vampires The Truth of Their God, before their senseless Purge and Banishment of The Hylden.
I'm high as shit and this was just beautiful to read.
So why would the Elder God keep mentioning the pillars and wanting Kain killed? Either the pillars are just a trellis for him to climb out of the earth with and he's just growing over eons, or his machinations run so much deeper than the fanbase thinks and is just using the pillars to justify the pursuit of Kain. Maybe even not wanting Kains life in truth, only the events that result from hunting him in the same way Mortanius did in blood omen. Not really wanting him dead but sending people after him to kick off the events of the story
@@ajohnymous5699 if Kain falls, so do the pillars. He was the last guardian. The elder god wanted the pillars gone so he could be freed. That's why he wanted Raziel to kill Kain.
What I want to know is when the binding is broken why have the Hylden not returned physically? They just posses Janos and during SR2 demons are summoned to attack Raziel from what I assume the demon dimention despite the pillars still standing.
"I serve no one. Not you, Kain, or your SIMP Mobius."
*"Mobius is my top subscriber. I have many..."*
You are my right hand.... My Sword.
My SIMP REAVER.
So the Elder God, had an OnlyFans account even before we putrid mortals conceived its creation in our selfish, narcissistic arrogance, for our sociopathic egos to be fed. If that's not a time paradox on a fourth wall level break, I dunno what is.
@@infernalstryfe "I am the hub of the porn, the eternal thirst shared by all men. To deny me is to deny life itself."
Lmao what have you done to the franchise
@@TOUGHEYES nice…
The writers of the LoK games are geniuses.
I always loved how in a way Raziel's journey mirrored young Kain's. He is destroyed only to be raised and manipulated and in the end has to make the ultimate sacrifice The only difference is unlike Kain, Raziel chooses integrity.
I found out really late by watching a video about legacy of kain 1 (I never play it)
Also Mortanius is voiced by Tony Jay, the voice actor for the elder god.
Yes, all the voice actors do such an amazing job. I used to replay blood omen on my psp when I was younger. Now I sometimes listen to the voice lines before falling asleep. They dont make games like these anymore.
I really don't think Kain made an unwise choice based on the track record of the characters surrounding him after his death that were asking him to top himself.
If Kain had accepted the sacrifice, things would not have gone better. Aside from the Elder god being able to do as he wished without anyone or anything to get in his way- the pillars had been made by and for vampires. Once there were no more, inevitably the pillars would fail. After that, the hylden show up- which means one giant genocidal war when they realize humans are just as much puppets of the elder as the vampires were.
This is more or less exactly what the elder wanted all along. two entire races fighting eachother to extinction, with itself positioned above the wheel, ready to devour their souls as they died.
Raziel: "An ironic condemnation, given this guilty scene. One would think that you tore down the pillars single-handedly!"
I think its a Nosgoth native from even much more ancient days. The last of his kind. Full head cannon: his race originally didn't need a lot to survive but over time, one or many wanted more. They began to cannibalize each other. When his race was gone, he searched for more and found the wheel or where the wheel exists. He couldn't eat all of passed through the wheel, but he could grow off of what came through. Thousands of years later, he was spread throughout the world encouraging war.
This is cool
I love that the legacy of Kain series is finally getting some more content around youtube.
Charles Dance would be my pick to take over as the voice of the Elder God.
Ooh yes, so much this!!
Good suggestion but i personally think charles dance would be a very good mobius
@@TheOldWarden The voice of Moebius has to be able to give both a harsh and commanding tone; and a sly, manipulative, faux charm tone. Charles Dance can clearly do the former, but I haven't heard him do the latter, and I have trouble imagining it.
Or.... or.......just hear me out. How about...
ICE CUBE as the Elder the God
@@neilsy8299 nah big smoke
Tony Jay, one of the greatest voice actors of a generation, Rip! Will always remember him for soul reaver but also Megabyte from reebot.
And Virgil from Mighty Max
For me, Tony Jay before Soul Reaver was the conniving Lex Luthor's repugnant manservant Nigel in the first season of Lois And Clark.
@@davidstowers1964 For me, Virgil in Mighty Max, though I didn't realize that until years later
The Narrator from The Bard's Tale for me.
Frollo from Disney’s version of The Hunchback of Notre Dame.
I don't know where I got the idea, but always had the impression that the pillars (at least at some point) where actually piercing through the elder god, keeping him in place, preventing him from moving or possibly escaping.
The pillars were the prison of the hylden and the key to Nosgoth rich spiritual energy so it is fair to say that the Elder leeches directly from the wound
There's a SR2 raziel line in which he accuses Elder of looking like he's trying to tear down the pillars single-handedly with entwined tantacles. For a while i had the impression the pillars formed a prison cell for EG, but the "bars" would have only been a semi circle not a full enclosure. Eh.
Yes, Raziel refers to it as a “guilty scene” and the EG reacts like he’s been caught with his pants down too.
@@larrymcmacarroon9529 Elder is hungry. He wants the Pillars down, because he wants another species worth of food back on his menu.
Imagine how buttblasted he must had been with the outcome of the ancient war - one species effectively became immortal, the other yeet'd from this plane of existence, effectively taking both off his menu.
@@TheKain202 "He wants the Pillars down, because he wants another species worth of food back on his menu." Nope because the Hylden were most likely immortal, they were not bound to the wheel in any way like many other creatures in Nosgoth, even if they weren't immortal.
This video just made my day. I think the Elder God has the same nature as Raziel and all creatures on the Spectral Realm. As we see, beings in this realm are predators that need to feed themselves with souls, he might be the oldest one of those creatures and the “apex predator” in the food chain.
Edit: It's interesting to see how many points of view and opinions we do have here. I don't own the truth so feel free to disagree and debate about it.
I wish I could have this conversation personally while having a beer LOL.
Maybe the spectral realm itself is the actual parasite that feeds on Nosgoth.
@marcus24000 Apex means top, nothing further. If you were the top predator and didnt need to hunt why would you? Why waste your energies with effort when you can just manipulate something else to hunt for you.
Your conmen analogy is just kinda odd, doesnt really fit at all. If you want an example take the T-Rex. It was an apex predator that usually just scared other dinosaurs away from prey that they already killed. Easy free food is always the goal.
@marcus24000 the elder and all creatures of the spectral realm are soul eaters and that’s why he manipulates the whole Nosgoth, to provide him souls. Raziel said that many times along the game.
That’s why he wants Kain dead, but also the vampires, the sluaghs and the hylden. All those creatures were competitors at some point.
And you are right about his weak spot. Kain may find it on the Dark Prophecy game. But we might never know.
That was the plan of the false god.. for his own greedy means. Bastard.
@@Azazreal you got it ❤️
Fantastic video! Some sides to the Elder God that I never really thought of to be honest. Any time I see something like this I immediately want to play the whole series again xD
In game: underground, beneath the seat of the pillars, there is a phylactery; a colossal urn jug in the Nosgoth caves. In two games, adjacent to this huge unexplained jug is the elder god deeper along the cavern adorned with his sucker marks. The thing squeezing the pillars came from that urn; whoever cooked up it up knows how old the 'elder-god' really is: and that he's an amorphous bored liar.
My take: Elder was a spectral star child drawn to Nosgoth long before the pillars were built, because he's timeless so he knew they WOULD be built, and once the Pillars were raised he was able to use that dimensional gate to enter the material world and start growing. When he's done growing he'll be everywhere. He'll be the planet. His transition into the physical world complete, he'll be ready to burst forth everywhere, kill all life, AND survive it..... because souls won't need to be reborn anymore into the world if He's replaced the world---souls will just transit through him in a circular buffet path. The planet will be a vampire. Which is why he wants the Pillars gone, because the pillars are the stake that can be driven through the planet's heart to kill him. Kain! Kain killed the world off too early with his necro empire, before Elder God was ready to start the Armageddon himself, effectively starving EG and threatening to Pillar-Gank the god any millennia now. It'd end with Kain hacking through Elder's bodily organs, each the size of New Hampshire. Oh, by the way, ElderGod is the source of the blood curse. As soon as the pillars were functional he came through the dimensional portal, and his touch infected the ancients mentally bound to the pillars. Made them timeless too. Chow.
Nope
I suspect that the Elder played both sides of the Hyldan and Vampires and cursed them with the blood curse and immortality, having humans hunting them down as they are a great threat that won't go away. The motive being that Hyldan souls were denied to the Elder due to the Vampires and they are immortal in their banishment according to blood omen 2. He has ways to destroy the vampires which would bring the Hyldan back and their souls sustain him after they return and can die again in Nosgoth.
I suspect there is something to your theory but needs Hyldan souls as well as human and vampire for his ultimate plan to come to fruition.
I thought the Hylden cursed the winged beings with the blood curse as a last "fuck you" for banishing them, because they knew their god will stop speaking to them.
I mean the Hylden found a way to become immortal and didnt believe in the elder god> so the elder god send the winged beings to banish and destroy them, after the winged beings became immortal > the elder god send the humans to kill them all off.
To me he's not timeless, he's just thrived long enough, so it seems he was always there, but its possible to trace his origin as a mere bug because of the fact he grows, and he's obviously worried about losing his susteaneance or being discovered and possibly killed. He's in fact an apex predator that relies on psychological manipulation of humans and takes advantage of human techologies, such as time travel. And in a sense, all predators are parasites.
@@daccount1994 I'm kind of curious about the relationship it has with the Hylden. You've got him wanting Raziel to kill Kain but you even have the god suggesting to Kain to try and stop this by killing Raziel, who we learn to be the champion of the Hylden in their prophecy. Sure you have Moedbius talking about how they would deal with them but this false god knows they would fail. I wish they made a true final game, I'd have liked to have seen what this beings true deal was.
Oh man I wasn't expecting another character study! Excited to watch this one.
My expectation would have been for Kain, purified of Nupraptor's madness, to be able to bring new guardians to serve the pillars and defeat the Elder God
need a good video explaining Nupraptor's madness
Well.. no. Because the Soul Reaver (with Raziel in it) is the only thing that can truly harm the Elder God. I always hoped in a sequel that he would kill the Elder God though :p
I think Raziel was indeed created by the Elder God or at least corrupted his essence and resurrection simply because Raziel had a strong connection with him, whenever Raziel consumes a soul the Elder also consumes it, in SR1 and SR2 the conduits in which Raziel can manifest himself in the material realm are granted by the Elder, when Raziel openly defiances him, the elder takes away the conduits resulting in Raziel possesing cadavers. Also the Elder wins with him a wild card who can shuffle the game which he tries to shuffle in his benefit.
My theory whether Raziel was revived by the ender god or not, is very simple.
A thing that isn't hugely talked about thing about the vampires in the games.
Ancients would grow old and die (But over thousands of years) Once they were cursed with what we perceive as a vampire, blood thirst they gained immortality.
I'd like to turn everyones attention to the scene in which Janos gets revived, Once the heart is restored into his chest. Did anyone spot how Janos started healing? WITHOUT Raziel's intervention?
His chest literally starts recovering almost immediately - and its before the reaver(?) flash of light jump started Janos, his rib cage actually starts closing back up before this. Implying, Vampires are like 'closed circuits' They will continue as long as they are 'complete'
When it comes to Kains vampire empire, The vampires in the game could only be killed by : Sunlight/Water/Fire - Impaling. Fire will kill the body outright, but water is a grey zone. I remember if they come into contact with it, they will practically burn up completely. But lets say the bodies in the game engine had a physics rag-doll style, you could push them about a bit. What if you moved them out of the water?
Well... Dumahim actually answered this, they directly will come back to life. Sunlight and fire, seem to be the only two real ways for a person to kill a vampire in that age. Other than Raziel and the soul reaver.
Let's make an observation.
Janos, and the ancient vampires are blue skinned.
Vorador and Kain are both green-skinned.
Raziel and brothers as well as all offspring* Are all grey/white skinned. Implying their skin colour didnt change from when they were made into a vampire.
This easily tells us how the vampire was made. Janos was a natural born vampire. Vorador and Kain were humans, who were ALIVE when they were given the gift, they evolved and became green-skinned.
Raziel and co - Were dead before revival.
So I come back to the first question, Was Raziel revived? or did he just awaken? Definitively?
Well... in the context of SR1, if a vampire dies, and their soul inhabits the underworld long-enough they evolve/adapt to the spectral realm. Raziel was in there for several centuries.
Trivia - IF you kill a vampire, but don't feed on their soul, in some areas (It's not a huge advertised feature) they will actually become vampire wraiths. That more than leads me to believe Raziel revived himself. He adapted to the spectral realm.
But the Elder god is known (from defiance) he has the ability to grant spectral realm dwellers the ability to go into the material world. through manipulation and control over Raziel. it gets Raziel to commit genicide and single handedly kill every vampire he sees.
I think the first time you come across a wraith is where is where there is preburnt vampire, when you switch realms, to get through the church thing(iirc) it's your first wraith encounter.
This is the most interesting take on here...I love it
"Tell me old one, did you truly resurrect me, or were you simply THERE when I awakened from my torment?" - Raziel SR2
Loved this vid. I'm a massive LoK fan, and always love hearing any and all viewpoints and lore that I can. While any hope for a series ending is nearly impossible, I do someday hope for a HD remaster so I can once again trod nosgoth and listen to Simon, Michael, Tony, Rene, and the rest of the amazing voice cast again, and relive the story over and over again. History abhors a paradox, but it cherishes this; one of the greatest game series of all time. (in my humble opinion)
Hey thanks for making this video. While I could easily follow every other characters story it seems I failed to truly comprehend the Elder God and his role in the story. Thank you for shining new light on this series for me.
Oh man i really love your Legacy of Kain Videos - these deep character dives really make me want to play the games again - i forgot how exceptional the writing an voice acting was.
UA-cam randomly recommended me one of your videos and now I watched all your blood omen videos, great job
How is this lines, and this writing so fucking good? EVERY single dialog is a fucking masterpiece, I could just play every single cutscene from entire series and just listen to the words this character says. Jesus christ, its actually hurts knowing that any games even will be close to this level of writing.
"I know you Strictly Fantasy...you are worthy..."
God.. i love this series and everything about it.. Great video..
I always favoured the idea that when Kain sees raziel's Wings.. he knew he had to sacrifice him for what he knew about the prophecies... i don't know how but in his Centuries of Reign he must've learned about it
The Chronoplast. We don't know when Kain had access to it, maybe it was before he raised his lieutenants and he always knew what had to be done or maybe it was after and he knew that it was his destiny all along.
@@WisteriaNerium Yeah something along the line.. maybe he knew that one of his lieutenants wold fullfill the role of the Prophecies but didn't knew which one it would be... and as Raziel was his right hand.. it must've hurt.. He certainly didn'd care when the others evolved and surpasses hin in some regards... like being able to enter the spirit world to pass solid objects, immunity to water etc.. but raziel growing wings triggered him so much he killed him the most cruel way? seems unlikely
Nice video! I get the H.P.Lovecraft vibe as as well must be the tentacles and living inside the cave. So in other words, that creature is just a lying giant squid claiming to be God and through the entire serie he tries to manipulate Raziel because he comes from the ancient vampire race (same as Janos Audron) which in Soul Reaver 2 we learn about their curse and how they're out of the wheel of fate thus they have a free will; these valuable information about Raziel nature was never revealed to to him by that creature but he found it on his own by going to the past, in other words the curse that was once bestowed upon the ancient vampire race set them free as well which kinda explain why Raziel would've risen without that lying creature anyway.
Great summary!
Yeah, I feel Yog Sothoth was the inspiration for the Elder God.
On a more pop culture level, he could crudely be described as a kind of Unicron, Chthon, and Shuma Gorath rolled into one (the latter two being Marvel villains inspired by HP Lovecraft).
Sorry to reply after a year, but I'd also like to add a tidbit that all discussions about Raziel rising seem to forget.
Vampire souls on Soul Reaver 1 turn to wraiths if not devoured. It's even built into the game itself, like by stabbing a vampire and leaving it alone, then coming back later in the spirit realm it's a wraith. Picking up the weapon you stabbed it with, and it rises with the ability to drain your soul. Dumah is the best example of this.
Raziel would have risen no matter what, because he's a vampire who's soul becomes a wraith. Being in the Abyss when he rose, he gained all the powers the squid claims to have granted him. The Elder God was lying the whole time.
@@Takesis so the elder God never gave him power? Raziel would have gotten the power himself?
Theory:
I think the Hylden had known about the true nature of the Elder God. They were probably his original worshippers. As they became advanced and unlocked immortality, they were rejected by him, and in turn refused to worship him once they noticed his flaws.
As this happened, the Elder God chose to guide Vampire race. Using them to kill the immortal beings that rejected death, and thus his hunger. Unfortunately for the Vampire race, they cursed with immortality and a hunger as revenge before being banished.
Seeing this, the Elder God did the exact same thing to the Vampires and instead switched to the humans to repeat the same process of slaughter.
One of the things that leads me to this belief is in how advanced each race is prior to these wars. Hylden seem to have had both advanced industrial technology and sorcery. The Vampires were pre industrial and used advanced sorcery, and then humans with their primitive medieval technology and some moderate sorcery.
I think he fosters each race with the technology of the prior one. Building the up over centuries so they can topple the der ones. If this is the case, how long has he been playing this game of herding his supply of soul food here?
Really good take my dude
One small thing they were never immortal hylden either vampires before the war. Hylden cursed vampires by making them not being able to make babies die and they had urge to feast on blood making them human enemies hylden also are immortal due to vampires banishing them to hylden realm it sustains them
@@killert41
You sure? The games didn't really explain the relationship prior to the war.
The one thing we do know is that they controlled immense technology and sorcery, being able jumpstart an early medieval society into the industrial age. The technology was not only created before that but it was built before their exile according to the imprisoned inventor that Kain interacted with in in Blood Omen 2.
That's part of the reason why I developed this theory. But it is just a theory. based off the interconnected plots of the games.
Can we get a dive into the character of Vorador? He seems a good candidate for a Character Study
I think you hit the nail on the head with the elder not being being responsible for raziels resurrection as I remember raziel saying this and the elder going silent and not responding to this and as you said that he instead did latch onto raziel like a parasite and took a portion off each soul that raziel would consume
These LOK videos are tight as hell. Also really nice job putting the art in the descretion!
Excellent voice acting. That alone sets the whole mod for the game. Great storyline. I really hope Epic would do the last game in the series.
Fascinating. You could make the case that the Elder God is only omnipresent in temporal paradoxes. Time isn't moving forward it's been essentially hijacked and forced into a perpetual wheel. Yet, entropy can only increase in an isolated system and errors eventually will eventually break the wheel no matter how many timelines are looping.
A cool video man. I hope you continue these. LoK is one of my fave game series.
I regards to your theory about Raziel reviving anyway because of his destiny; maybe the power of time, destiny, and fate is what revived him. But because the Legacy of the Reaver can shift around time it's inevitable power source would have to be immutable by time. Which could be why Raziel has free will?
Raziel only gets his free will after encountering Kain at the pillars for the first time.
When the Soul Reaver shatters on his skull and the Wraith Blade attaches itself to his arm - he becomes a walking paradox. Two instances of Raziel sharing the same time and space, from that point on, his every step is capable of changing fate.
Well... Raziel has free will basically because he is a walking paradox
@@KatherinaBathory hahaha! That's the best description of Raziel I've ever heard.
Exceptional video! Thanks for keeping the lore alive!
So true, much appreciation.
Just found this channel. I'm not usually onto watching video game lore outside of the video games. But soul reaver has been a gem I forgot about until now. Gonna play it now.
"Kain is a sinuous beast" I've always loved that line.
Wow. Mind Blown. I've never understood the true nature of the Elder God. Thats great storytelling!
Tony Jay also voiced the Necromancer Mortanius in blood omen.
For failing the circle, Malek of the seraphim, you are hereby damned!
Zephon
Until Alastair Duncan took over while Tony Jay is still the voice of the Elder God before he died.
If Aspyr does remaster all five of the games,
I hope Alastair will return to voice Mortanius again while Corey Burton voices the Elder God,
And Tony Jay, Paul Lukather, Earl Boen, And Rene Auberjonois will be memorial Easter Eggs.
@@clintjones92515Although I don’t know who will take over for the late Tony Jay as the voice of Zephon in the remastered collection(In the future).
Corey Burton is perfect for the Elder God,
And Alastair Duncan should return to voice Mortanius.
Clever Hylden.. cursing Vampires with immortality so that the Elder turns on them.. and eventually attempts to return the Hylden back to the world only for a number of souls.
Strictly Fantasy, I just came to know your video about the Elder God (I already saw some of yours before but not this one) and noticed you used one of my pictures in it (The Great War: The Decision of the Council of the 9 by DameKlaudia).
I noticed as well you mentioned the origin of it in the description and I am thankful for your respect for others' works !!!
You make an excellent job and I am glad you used my stuff for it!!
Congratulations!
And thank you for making such great art. 🙂
@@strictlyfantasy My pleasure :)
@@strictlyfantasy , I made this video as "fan", featuring the Ancient Vampires : ua-cam.com/video/4U9tJMXJiQM/v-deo.html
You've done it again. Amazing! You need to get Squeenix and them to let you voice the documentary series. More , More. So many characters left. I can't wait.
It’s sold to Embracer Group now.
I love these Legacy of Kain videos you are doing. Even after all these years still one of my fav series, and I think it is deserving of a complete remaster. Can just re-use all the dialogue from the previous games
love your videos so much, no matter how many times i watch them, I've always enjoy them
I love how there is no connection between the elder god and the Hylden. Both are just doing what is good for them.
This was a fantastic video. Its great to know there are others who probably used a vcr to record the game stoy betas just to pour over it and understand. But being one man you do not always think of all avenues. Your perspective definitely added to my understanding. I hope someday they finish this story
Man i know you made these 2 years ago but wow @StrictlyFantasy these videos are brilliant! LoK was a big part of my early years, a masterpiece WAY AHEAD of its time in terms of storytelling
I didn't know the story in such *detail*
This dude makes an amazing job trying to keep the series alive
Maybe 1 day we will get a sequel or remaster or remake hopefully
We need more fans to be heard
Love these LoK character studies of yours. Great work!
Loved the video, the only issue with watching these kind of videos about LoK is that I get nostalgic and I remember there's no more games :-) thanks a lot for sharing these.
"You think you have defeated me, Kain? I exist in places you cannot find." This line speaks volumes I feel. It teems with power and there is a definite lovecraftian feel to it I think.
the EG is Atemporal(Doesnt exist in a single point in time) meaning that defeating him at any point in history is ultimately pointless unless you cna sever his connectino ot the wheel. the Purified Reaver thru being the only thnig that can actually hurt him is the only menas that have a chance at doing this.
@@Teixas666 I also took it to mean he exists in many, if not all realms of existence, most of which Kain wouldn't be able to touch him in. The Soul Reaver, imbued with Raziel's soul allows him to kill things from the spectral plane, as well as the physical one, but I think there may be more than just two realms.
@@exowarrior Probably other dimensions, rather than realms.
It think that The Elder God is a part of the wheel of fate. However I think he in his many years of timeless and deathless existence has made him start undercutting his returns. He is the master of his facet of the world and he could do as he pleases with the wheel only because he is "above" Mortality.
Soul Reaver 2 was my favourite game in my teen age. Thanks for revivung the series
I always thought that the Elder God was also trying to change its own fate. But despite its power and control over time, there are some things that even if can't change.
Definitely subscribed after this video. I'd like to have a conversation with you regarding my thoughts on the series, namely my opinion that Defiance was in fact the exact ending that the series deserved, and does wrap up the entire series very well despite never seeing the final confrontation.
I agree with this. I thought it was so cool that the final death of Hasha Gick (spelled wrong) was in Blood Omen 2 when young Kain kills him and closes the Hilden portal.
That was a fantastic character study to watch/listen to
Id love to see a video on Janos Audron
You've got it half right raziel was resurrected as a vampire wraith. Remember in the first soul reaver game it is explained that. When a vampire dies it's soul goes to the underworld. And if the vampires soul adapts to the underworld it becomes an eater of souls. But if you take out a spear from the dead vampire it's soul reaquires it's body. And can cyphon energy from raziel. The same thing happens to Dumah if you choose to. Shift to the spirit world in Dumahs throne room. You will see Dumah and he is indestructible in the spirit world. So yes Raziel is a vampire wraith and based on the logic. Put in place during the first game. Theoretically if Raziel's body was present he could re-enter his body. And have the same soul cyphoning ability.
If nothing else, the Elder God would likely be expending power to resurrect Raziel, so it makes sense that he would be hesitant to do so himself. But... personally, I think he probably did revive Raziel because he adheres to "fate" as long as it serves his purpose, and he knows that Raziel is fated to fight Kain. He probably saw an opportunity for something that benefited him and willingly spent the energy needed to keep Raziel from deteriorating further in the hopes of more meals along the way (which is exactly what he got by latching onto the unfortunate wraith).
this is unlikely as it doesnt actually benefitthe EG is any way to directly raise a creature he cannot control nor kill.
Raziel was raised as a Wraith due ot Causality.
Raziel Cannot perish before he can ensure he will be raised as a Vampire and then be consumed by the reaver and become the Spirit of the Soul Reaver. this is because if RAziel were ot perish before that one of 2 things would happen:
1: Raziel was never Raised as a Vampire; this is a problem because this would mean Raziel never had the opportunity to become a Wraith and be at the historical position of killing his Sarafan brother and himself in order ot provide Kain qith the bodies ot later be raised.
2: the Reaver was Never forged, as this is the only way Raziel would avert his ultimate fate
both outcomes are Fatal paradoxes and for this reason when raziel wasexecuted at the abyss, History had ot intervene and REsolve this paradox: the soultion was to " Expel the irritant" aka: remove RAziel from the cycle of Life and Death.
this made him Immortal but also made him the only creature in Nosgoth with True Free will.
Soul reaver was such an Amazing experience.. the voice of the elder good... after so many years Hearing it again my good... this game defined me... plz. Do more content.🙌🏻 grat job thank you for that 🙌🏻
If ever there was a franchise that needed a remaster, it's this!
I couldn’t agree more.
So I hope Aspyr and Embracer Group will do that since there’s a Tomb Raider remastered collection coming in 2024.
Update: Soul Reaver 1 & 2 are getting remastered.
So many look pass Defiance's Inner Chamber "designed not to keep those out, but rather to trap something within" the pillars are a weapon/defence against the elder too. He's not all about bringing the pillars down just for laughs. So far the elder displays the same powers as the pillar guardians that betrayed their duties for him he has a power over death like Mortanius we might see with Raziel's resurrection, but we definitely saw with Mobeius in defiance and Mobeius full timeline awareness we saw toward the end of Soul Reaver 2 when Mobeius youngest self referred to their future encounters in past tense... The elder doesnt really display anything other than their powers and a possible corruption that only a purified reaver can touch
That sentence at the begining sums up all the races of nosgoth. The destroyed vampires, the used humans and the damned hylden
In answer to where the elder god came from I think that given he is a squid like creature, it may have just been a small squid in the lake of the dead, who, at some point got sucked into the abyss & thus the spectral realm and changed like Raziel so that he had to feed on souls & so bound itself to the wheel like a barnacle - a plentiful food source. Remember how he describes himself as 'the hub of the wheel'. The spectral realm exists outside of time, which is how he is able to be omnipresent. With an inexhaustible food supply, he eventually grew bigger & bigger & more parasitic to the point where he was able to manipulate the wheel & all in the spectral realm. His influence thus then extended to the physical realm. Just my personal theory.
I wish we got a final chapter for this series. I think the Elder God was a predator like the Sluagh, but not from Nosgoth. I think it wouldn't have ever been explained where exactly it came from, but my feeling is that it would move through the spiritual plane and consume souls until it has exhausted its supply. Then move on, or enter some kind of hibernation or something and give life a chance to return to the corporeal realm.
If we had gotten a final game, the main gimmick would be unlocking the new abilities of the Soul Reaver. In the second game, you unlocked elemental powers and at the end of Defiance, it gave Kain the power of true sight. Kain's original Soul Reaver didn't have any of these abilities because in every other version, the blade forcefully devoured Raziel. Only in Defiance does he sacrifice himself, thereby returning to Kain's service, and allowing Kain to uncover previously unknown facets of the blade. One of which, would be the ability to plane shift into the spiritual realm. I think you'd use the newfound abilities to hunt down the Elder God and in an attempt destroy it.
There would be more time shenanigans, and you would end up at the beginning of the series where Ariel is murdered and Nuprator goes mad. I think it would be revealed that the elder God was the reason his madness infected the other pillars. Like he used his connection to the spirit plane and was the reason Ariel's soul was bound to the pillars in the first place, which caused the connection to happen. So, the idea would present itself that if you can kill the Elder god before he meddles in the corporeal plane this one time, then you restore balance like you were always meant to and set the time stream back the way it was originally supposed to be. The twist, though, is that if you do it this way, baby Kain would never be corrupted. Thus, this version of Kain you play as would cease to exist, because he was never supposed to in the first place. The Elder God wasn't supposed to exist. Nothing after Ariel's murder was supposed to exist the way it does.
You, the player would be given the choice; Do you make the selfish choice and allow the creature to live? Thus condemning Nosgoth to the current cycle of time? Or do you kill it, and sacrifice yourself like the guardian of balance you're supposed to be? I'm sure the game would do a better job of building up to the final decision than I can. The story tellers were clever and did an excellent job of making you feel the weight of what was at stake.
I dunno. Those are my thoughts.
I love that Raziel quips about telling Mobius he's worshipping a giant squid and whether or not that would shake his faith.
In Defiance, he does just that and yep, it does.
I had ideas of the Elder God on story ideas in my imagination on how the Legacy of Kain story continued and concluded. In my imagination after Defiance. Kain is visited by the voice of a new oracle who tells Kain to meet him at the pillars. There this new Oracle who teleports Kain thousands of miles high above Nosgoth's atmosphere where a floating temple floats right above to where the pillars used to be. There Kain meets the Watcher. Nosgoth's first and last Guardian. The Guardian is the combination of thousands of souls from the predecessor to the successor for each generation it merges with. Though he has the form of a Human, he is not. For he merged with his successor as his means to live throughout the millions upon millions of years. He tells Kain that the Elder God is a celestial beast from the darker regions from the outermost regions fo the universe that drains the spiritual essence of each world it leeches off of and then moves to the next one. The Elder Guardian was chosen by the relic that will one day become the soul reaver blade to be its planets guardian and the powers gifted upon him by the powerful divine Virgin Mothers who each birthed the divine races of Nosgoth. The Humans, The Hylden, The Sluagh, and the Vampires. Each Race was brought down from grace and forgotten their powers entirely. The Guardian fought against the Elder with the powers of the relic gifted to him and with the help of the four Divine Mothers sacrificing their souls to the relic. The Guardian was given enough power to destroy the Lovecraftian alien and its Demons that it brought forth into the world, though the Guardian thought he destroyed the parasite. He was gravely mistaken when the beast left its essence onto Nosgoth's spectral plane where the creature will hide in the spectral world to grow and feed to regain the form that it once lost and with every soul it feeds it becomes more omniscient every time. As time went on the Guardian felt that his time as Nosgoth's guardian was done and so relinquished the powers of the Guardianship to seven Vampires that he entrusted the relic to. Little did he know that when he left the world to explore his spirit across the cosmos. Only to find that the beast did not die, and it is his duty to come back to Nosgoth to help Kain finish the beast off with whatever knowledge and power he's got. That is how I imagine a continuation of Kain's story after Defiance.
I will let you know, that right now, the reaver exists in a condition, that is neither one or the other. As Raziel is in the last temple, the biggest of the all, hidden inside the soul reaver itself. Trapping Kain inside a time loop, that can only be broken by destroying the wheel on its axis.
Some detail to this is that the corruption and decay of the land might be the cause to the Elder God rather then the Pillars, since the Pillars were clearly build to keep the Hylden banished, so Kains choice never mattered apperently, the Elder God wants Kains death so the Hylden can return, a new race to feed on for there Souls, the Vampires were immortal, so they were not useful anymore as food since they stopped feeding him due the immortality. Soul Reaver 1 Era is a dead land, and with the Hylden coming back it would fill the land again with new life he can feed on.
He uses he Pillars once again as excuse like with many other things, this is clear in how it is presented in Soul Reaver 2, how he keeps growing seemingly the more the Pillards decay, like he himself crushed and destroyed them.
The Hylden not believe in him and his wheel but still are food to him due his Soul Reaver and Hunters he has like seen in Defiance. A parasite that clinged intself to the Pillars and the Wheel and feeds on it, no God, just a parasite as Raziel called him.
Sad that we never goten a full conclusion to the series, that horrible Nosgoth game and that Dead Sun attempt which gladly never came to be not exist for me, i really hope somewhat we get a good conclusion or even a good reboot of the series, even that i am not a fan of reboots normally. It should stay close to the originals and fix and adjust outdated gameply really at best.
9:43
He absolutely was not responsible for Raziel's transformation. Raziel brings it up in Soul Reaver 2 saying something like, "Or did you simply discover me? Somehow indestructible and ethereal?"
Raziel, being descended from the Hilden, is an indestructible soul. Just because he's killed doesn't mean he's gone.
Actually, the idea that he was in any way related to the Hylden was a misconception planted, for Raziel to take the bait. Prophecy muddied and made so vague, as to make it seem quite plausible that it was him. And a creature like the Elder God would do this.
No. We see that the kind of power of the Reaver, and the ties of fate that surround it, are not something that is in the Elder God's Domain. Just the opposite infact. And it is that subtle divinity that makes Raziel's soul truly immortal. A power that exists outside of the understanding of the races that comprise Nosgoth. Even the keeper of the Reaver, Janos Audron, did not become affected by the Blood Thirst that ravaged the Ancient Vampires.
Interesting thoughts regarding the Elder God being a gigantic parasite. Frankly, I never trusted that gigantic wall of eyes and tentacles when I played Soul Reaver in the late nineties. It just gave me really bad vibes... Thanks for the video!
I couldn't even see that it was a giant tentacle (on the PS1 graphics).
If u think about it hermaous mora from the elder scrolls series looks very similar to the elder God theure both green colored tentacle monsters with many eyes and they're both omnipresent gods of knowledge.
I really love your narrative. Beautiful words, very mesmerizing.
Just wow, i have watched your four Soul Reaver videos with great interest and can't wait for more about the other characters. Plus adding some fan art to your videos (i have never seen quite a few of them) gives the whole little project its own charm. =3
@Strictly Fantasy First I think Raziel was to rise without the "help" of the Elder "god" because of the Paradox of the Soul Reaver. Think about it since the beginning the Blade was firstly created as a Blood Reaver, and then it it was taken from a Time line by Moebious when it already had Raziel's soul imprisoned within. Then It was given to William the Just, followed by Moebius to repeat the action and give another to Kain and have them face each other. When Kain killed William, William's blade shattered because of the 2 coming from different timelines and having Raziel's soul simultaneously. When Kain had risen Raizel and Co, again Raziel and the blade were present at the same time and when he had Raziel cast out to the Lake, meant that Raziel was never to die because of simultaneously existing. THIS is what set him out of time, and it is the same with Janos Audron and his Heart which when Raziel ripped it off Kain and cast him out to the Demonic realm it kept him alive as the Hylden where Janos was thrown in BO2. Kain, Janos and Raziel were timeless paradoxes that transcended death.
Also one thing that was overlooked in the rest of the games following SR was that Vampires when they die, they turn into soul wraiths seen in SR1, which was the fate of Raziel if he lingered in the Nether realm. Maybe the Elder god was one of these wraiths that overtime grew and grew in power, like being a dominant parasite. But yes also possible that it too came from space or another part of the nether realm. There are Pillars shown where Raziel arose, and the pillars show 3 images of a Multi eyed octopus creature seemingly arriving/appearing, followed by the creature seemingly morphing a humanlike appearance, and on the last image a Human like image. This pillar clued me in the 1st SR that the Elder god was not whom he was. Other pillars showed as if the Octupus creature grew, like a tumor or something. I always thought that Moebeius' tattoo was an hourglass but it was the Elder god's eye and that made me think that this time thing might be the Elder god siphoning the powers of the Time pillar from Moebious or sadly by accident Raziel fed the Elder god and provided him with the powers of time, essentially giving him his timeless powers smh
I always thought Raziel adapted the same way his brothers did to outside pressures. The fall into the abyss forced his evolution ahead, and if the Razelim still existed they would be blue and able to jump from material to spectral too. Also the Elder God doesn't seem able to see ahead, i think his mind and timeframe is bound to Raziels present even if his body is not.
nah , its only revealed later on but the reason why raziel was raised a wraith is because history could not allow him ot die otherwise it would go into a Paradox it could not recover from..
One thing about the The Elder God's size and influence in the first Soul reaver game. He is clearly struggeling at this time to gain enough sustenance, as the land is barren and that most of the souls that remain, are tied up in vampiric bodies. So how can he be so influential at this age, and actually have grown so much larger than in earlier ages?
My best theory would be that he grew "fat" from the vampires culling and war aginst the humans, that happened before and after Kain established his empire.
Anyone else have any other ideas for how he could have grown so large in an era(SR1) clearly defined by a lack of souls/sustenance?
Legacy Of Kain has such a good story
I don't believe the Elder God wanted to free the Hylden per se, especially with the reason given here, to feed on their souls.
He can't feed on Hylden souls, they are outside of the "wheel", that's precisely why there was a war with the vampires in the first place.
His objective was much simpler: he wanted Kain dead. To pursue that goal he wouldn't mind the cost he would have to pay later. Moebius said this himself in his last scene at the forge, he said that the Hylden were just a minor inconvenience now that Kain (they thought) was dead.
I kinda agree, I have a different theory. The Elder God appears to thrive with the collapse of the pillars. Raziel notes this and he suspects that the Elder must have had something to do with it. He must have known that if the Hylden ever got out of the demon dimension they wouldn't have posed much of a threat to his plans because a young Kain was destined to be the ruler of Nosgoth so he would've dealt with them before making his empire. He might have not wanted to get them out per se but now that they got out he didn't had any problem with it because Kain and Raziel are just handing over their immortal souls to him and his archons.
Though I have a feeling that the Hylden would've been a lot more craftier than both Moebius and the Elder God might have anticipated, oh we shall never known because Dark Prophecy the sequel to Defiance was cancelled.
I think extended life, or use of life force, mutates life. Kain and his vampires mutate over millennia, and Raziel may have survived as a mutation - I know it's not canon but in Dead Sun the main vampire trained himself to re-make his corporeal form (in the trailer), maybe this process became known. If that is the case, how come the non-human vampires survived without mutations? Well, Janos's body created the black heart that Kain later used, his body remained imperishable and could be brought back to life once his heart was returned, so vampires mutate differently than humans or human-vampires. That's what solves the problem of what The Elder God is, a life form that feeds on life force mutated over time.
Gud stuff
Was thinking u should do elder god vid after last one :3
Met ur channel some days ago on kain vid .
I love lok saga & everthing about it & when people do stuff on it always made me happy , by meeting fans :)
Mb do hylden next but then u needed 2 play bo2 or get footage somewhere. & dat game has more problems.
I believe razeal just woke up after 500 years of burning next to the elder god and he took advantage it of it of his naivitie.
Cuz my head cannon real vampire r imortal & need to hv their soul destroyed , like how dumah soul was in spetral realm until razeal remove the stakes on his body to kill him & take his soul. But dats my
head cannon.
Yes, as you guessed Raziel was not resurrected by the Elder God, he was simply there when Raziel awoke and pretended to be his maker to control him. In SR2 Raziel unknowingly frees himself from the restrains of time and fate, and therefore from the omniscience of Moebius and the Elder God, by stabbing both his human self and blue self in the past with the Soul Reaver. By killing his human self he becomes his own maker and the architect of his own destiny. At the same time he creates a double time paradox since there are two Raziels and two Soul Reavers (the physical blade and the spiritual one in Raziel) in the same point in history. This means that he is successfully freed by the constraints of time, and even if he is still compelled by his nature as the Soul Reaver's soul to reunite with the blade at one point in the future, he cannot be foreseen. I think the reason Raziel could awake in the Abyss is because he was always (destined to be) the Soul Reaver's soul even before Kain shattered the blade on him, so by time he was simply not destined to die there. The fact he created a double time paradox made it so that he has always been free since the beginning so he could therefore create the time paradox that would free him. The Elder God could not be omnipresent in Nosgoth when the pillars were intact, but since he is simultaneously present in different time periods, he always knew that Raziel could free himself from his paths in time, and therefore not follow the moves that the Elder God knew Raziel would be making. The only moment in time Raziel was certain to be there and unaware of his time travels was his awakening in the Abyss, because that's a necessary main event. While he is in the future Nosgoth of SR1 he can track him at all times because the Pillars are not limiting his sight, but every other time in the past and present I think the opportunity to meet Raziel becomes only a probability, so the Elder God always seeks to control Raziel because he knows he is the only one who can escape from his sight at any moment. That is why in SR2 he waits at the base of the Pillars, since he knew Raziel had to go there. I think the Elder God always knew that Raziel will be reunited with the blade in Defiance and so he tries in different timelines to change the course of history every time he can meet Raziel by exercising his control over him. After all the Elder God is not so omnipotent as he wants to appear, like how the gnostic demiurge is said to be ignorant and blinded by his arrogance. The irony, for a being that has eyes everywhere, he can't see everything
I would pay sooo much money for a well made final chapter to the Soul Reaver story.
Good video. There is a fan video making a very fine end to the series plus tie up all lose ends
Oh how I would love to see this franchise come back.
Excellent stuff! Keep the good work coming!
I just found your channel and am so happy you're revisiting this series. Its a personal favorite of mine. And as for the elder God i believe he came from the stars and merely become locked here
I always liked the idea that the Hylden, in their search for immortality somehow brought the alien Elder God (or a piece of it) into Nosgoth, either from the demon dimension or some alien place. not understanding what it was either by accident or to used it to understand how to avoid death which is why it hated them. Thus in their quest for immortality, they sewed the seeds of their doom. It would also give a good reason as to how the first war started. The Hylden were summoning demons, all the Elder God needed to do was communicate that fact to the Vampires, warn them of a demon attack (that he may have been able to cause) and point the finger at the Hylden and their experiments.
I also like the idea that because it is omnipresent, it doesn't quite grasp the linear nature of time is or has a strange perception of it, as only he and maybe Moebius seem to be able to "remember" the events of the already completed future, while existing in the past. I always found it strange that this omnipresent being, who exists in the dying future of Nosgoth, doesn't grasp that in somehow making Raziel, or trying to talk Raziel into killing Kain, it doesn't seem to change the end result. In every timeline (save maybe the last one) Nosgoth is condemned to decay. It's almost like the Elder gods perception of time, after the initial run of the timeline, follows the narration of the events.
Thus, it doesn't grasp the finite nature of Nosgoth and that it's constant growth and devouring of life energy (if only to survive) over time is what is causing the world's decay, not the vampires who are existing apart from it. That maybe wherever it came from, the world keeps expanding infinitely and thus more keep dying, and it's growth matches the expansion that yes, balance is maintained, but on Nosgoth, it is an every growing cancer that will kill the host, by it's very nature. That it honestly thinks it is the way things are supposed to be.
My vote goes to that Elder God is some star faring creature who came long ago to Nosgoth as a parasite, almost as a locusts . When he devour all souls moves to another realm or planet and do the same thing
From reading Daniel Cabuco's forum posts and thinking about the games for years, the Elder god is the final form of a sluagh.
"But the sluagh are dumb easy enemy fodder!" Yes, I know just hear me out.
According to Daniel Cabuco, the Elder is still a very natural part of nosgoth, likening them to being more of a barnacle on a boat. It's stuck to Nosgoth and isn't really inclined or maybe even capable of going anywhere else. The sluagh are just like the Elder, in that they too can devour souls and, while yes being mostly dumb, are be capable of some intellegence. They have enough brains to hunt in groups, to ambush, and to even run away when they get too low on health. Perhaps the longer they're around and the bigger they get, the smarter they become as well. Growing all the way up to becoming the near omnipresent and omniscient Elder we know and love/hate today.
"But the Elder brought Raziel back to feed on souls and destroy the vampires, what if he just made the sluagh?"
1) I'm kinda dubious to the idea that the Elder truly brought Raziel back to "life". Other vampires before him have come back as vampiric wraiths themselves, so it's not as if Raziel is really all that unique. Only the circumstances leading up to his resurrection are, as any vampire that was dead for a sufficient enough time could just pop back into their bodies if said bodies weren't destroyed.
2) It doesn't really dissuade my theory, namely because if the sluagh and the Elder are one and the same type of creature, then the Elder would just be propagating the species. I could see a lot of cannibalism taking place among them as well, which would explain why it's so rare to see one as big as the Elder is and why there isn't another one (if there ever were at all).
Mind you, this is just a fan theory and with the series probably never getting any form of continuation or remake we'll probably never know. It's still fun to think and daydream about the series though.
The elder God has been the puppeteer and orchestrator of all this since day one.
Edit:
It is probably a human vampire itself that mutated over time and is bound to the pillars.
So in theory, it could well be Raziel himself.
Hence why it says so to raziel all the time that Raziel is bound to it for eternity.
Could be mutated Raziel from tbe past that eventually found a way to revive its own corpse and use itself to get to kain. But perhaps didn't expect raziel animated corpse to have his own will.
This could be an interesting theory to pursue and explore.
1111, a frequent number I see and also a number that represents our thoughts becoming reality. I believe this series will continue either as a reboot or a sequel to the previous games and will return with action/adventure gameplay.
I'm not sure that a reboot would do the game justice - unless it contained all the original dialogue with of course improved graphics & playability. I would love to see them wrap it up with Dark Prophecy (the unfinished final game) & then maybe go off on a few tangents, perhaps giving Vorador a game, telling the story of the vampire Raziel or going right back to the time of the ancient vampires. With the iconic Tony Jay having passed away, I don't know if it could ever be the same again.
11:12 for me
I now understand the lore a bit better ( I only played Soul Reaver on the PS1). Thanks for your LoK videos!! They are awesome!!
It is worth noting that the biggest thing the Elder God incites across time is wars of genocide, both the Hyldin-Vampire war and then the various Sarafan purges, in order to create conflict and megadeaths which will release an untold amount of souls into the Spectral Realm. If we were to go back further with Kain to peer into the Ancient Vampire History before their curse, would we see more races and entities the Elder God trampled and lapped up around the wheel? The Vampire were already willing to enact a bloody crusade once against the Hyldin. How many creatures, cultures and deities died by their claws unknowingly championing a Parasite?
I also wonder how ignoble of the Elder God's origin was before he attached himself to the Wheel of Life. Considering his particular hatred for the Sluagh as vermin, I'd like to think he isn't just furious that they exist without feeding him - but that he once was just one of those lowly feral soul scavengers that got lucky and found a source of food with little competition. And then just grew, mentally and physically over eons.
"Go now !
Play out your pitiful rebellion, and take your place among the destroyed, the used and the damned.
But know this - you are mine for eternity.
You have always been, and will always be, my soul reaver ..."
This line always give mad chills 🥶
I only recently found this channel and now I'm hooked.