"William dies a martyred saint and I, his vampire assassin, become the author of my own species extinction and Moebius profits from it all. I destroyed a tyrant only to create one far worse."
@@strictlyfantasy CONTINUE TO DO LOK CLIPS I WATCH YOU EVERY TIME. FIRST GAME IS BEST STORY IN GAMING HISTORY. I LOVED THIS GAME IN CHILDHOOD SAME NOW. IT IS BEST STORYPLOT EVER CREATED IN INDUSTRY OF VIDEO GAMES.
And Kain. And also, arguably, Raziel... although in his case it would be "Die a villain enough times and you will eventually see yourself become a hero".
I mean, it sounds pretty good, but it really means "You will either change or you will die before you change", which is a very obvious statement. Also, as the video pointed, it was entirely possible Will would be nice to the end, if not for evil schemes.
Let's take a moment to truly appreciate the wicked game of 4D chess Moebius was playing. He set a new time-line into being, just so he could manipulate Kain into going back and undoing it, thereby birthing a new time-line where Moebius got what he truly wanted.
@@strictlyfantasy Was he a Mastermind, or merely a vital part of a delicate machination that would lead to his own demise. After All, being a Pillar Guardian he had to know the reasons behind their creation.
My theory on the first timeline change is that Mobius killed the previous monarch thus making William become king at a young age where he can be manipulated easily. Perhaps if he was supposed to become king aged 30 or 40 he wouldn't have bought what Mobius was saying
Ive allways felt the interesting thing about LOK is its use of two types of time travel. Where all characters operate on the default fixed timeline method. Meaning people who travel back in time cant change the future becuase those events in the past already happened by them. Mobius had allwyas met with William and set him towards the nemasis path. The only exception to this is Raziel or his soul, is the only being who funtions on the Dynamic Timeline method which means he actually can alter history. So due to his presence in the sword, an in my personal headcannon is what ever resonince of conciousness remaining in his long trapped future version of his soul, chose to alter history at that moment. In anycase i dont think there was any timeline where william made it to old age as a kind king.
This makes sense. A boy king being manipulated by his advisor is something that has happened many times in history. This was the case with the last emperor of China.
I’ve got an interesting idea. What if Kain was able to rally the Army of Hope and actually defeated the Nemesis? How would that change things? I personally could see vampires becoming heroes instead of villains in the eyes of the people. Champions of good who triumphed over evil. Which would really mess with Moebius plans lol. But what else would change?
"But I am dead." Proceeds to chop his head off. "As are you." So badass especially since it is said that people retain consciousness for a few seconds after being decapitated. So Moebius heard Kain say that before he died.
@@strictlyfantasy Works both ways sadly, imagine the scene Moebius, beheading Vorador, seeing Kain, last surviving Vampire in Nosgoth before *dead*. Albeit the mind would be immensely confused at the time of death so I doubt that's somewhat relevant, in a way.
"I destroyed a tyrant only to create one far worse" I find this statement from Kain interesting, as it seems that he laments his pursuit of being Nostogth's "Solitary Monarch"
Mobius took over the government and launched a genocide. As interesting as it would be if Kain was offering a bit of self-reflection, he was referring to how his own naivete had allowed Mobius to take totalitarian power.
I mean his goal is to undo everything he did and die back in blood omen 1, to "fulfill his destiny". To me it rings that he has a level of self loathing. While showing that he has his own twisted morality/logic, that no matter who he kills it doesn't matter since if he can fulfill his plan, time is undone and they never died to begin with. I find it interesting to think about
@@kylepeters8690 It kinda plays into a concept that goes somewhat unheard but is fundamental to Kain's character: the corruption of the Pillars and the madness of the Circle. Being a Guardian, Kain was affected since his birth by the very same madness that affected the Guardians he hunted and massacred in Blood Omen. That makes him very much a tragic character, because he lived the entirety of his human life and then centuries of vampiric unlife in this state of mental impairment. He is only ever cured of his madness when Raziel sacrifices himself and heals his mind. For the first time in his existence, Kain allows himself to hope...
@@kainslegacy78618 that is something I found odd, they talk about how he was corrupted and mad, but we never really see any truth to this, the most we see is a power hunger, a quick adaption to his new vampiric unlife (like saying a life without blood is a fate worse than death, even while he seeks his cure). The only thing I can think is his form of corruption was lessened by only just being born or perhaps being the balance guardian, instead of driving him mad, leaving him with a disregard for all life and maybe a general melancholic nature when not killing (since he seems to enjoy it while being a bit more mopey outside battle) but even that doesn't line up as he mentions in blood omen that where he lived taught survival of the fittest and had king Otmar ruled where he lived, he would have been long dead and replaced. It's hard to really figure out what Kain's corruption is
It's really crazy to me how good the voice acting in BO1 considering so many other games had terrible voice acting at the time. Man the time travel logic throughout this whole series is crazy yet it's not that confusing.
"Mobius propelled William and me together, but ensured FIRST, that we were BOTH armed with the Soul Reaver. The Reaver is the key, Raziel. Two incarnations of the blade, meet, in the exact same moment in time and space. A paradox is created; a temporal distortion powerful enough, to derail history."
After all what is happened, Kain at first was mostly just a man interested in solve his own problems, but the more he tries, the more he saw the consequences his and other people's actions. William is a reflection of Kain, Kain at the begining of his quest isn't nothing more than a pawn in a bigger game, at the end he was the central piece, while William, desíte be a central peice at the begining, ended up as a pawn of Moebius.
@@trollilol3819 I disagree. Kain is constantly providing advice and lessons to Raziel in Soul Reaver 2 and from both games and Defiance we know he was taught of Kain's journey as a fledgling. Kain clearly cares for Raziel hence his shock twice in Defiance when Raziel is being absorbed by the Reaver.
@@cultist1762 I ment in his vampire form he was looked at as a God why would he tell his fledglings of a time he was weak when raziel is recounting kains deification in soul reaver its a look back after he'd gained more Knollege and became kains ally and apparent at least near equal in power I know Kain didnt wanna kill him but raziel was someone Kain had to defend himself from
Hell yeah, more Legacy of Kain content. One of the greatest franchises of all time, certainly the best left unfinished. Thank you for these videos which carry the torch of rememberance.
In a odd way you can say it does have a ending. After all we are left with kain with clear vision as he can see what truly going on. And as long as the current kain does influence anything till the time he left in Soul Reaver. He wins. As the wheel can't do anything to him. And if he is found by kain... kain can hurt or kill him. Kain literal existence is the balance and has accept it.
@@zid9611 the point of all five games was to find a way to restore the pillars of nosgoth. The "coin landing on it's side" was the only way for Nosgoth to win, as both alternatives were rigged so as to destroy the pillars and allow the Hylden to return. Kain living or dying, and the same with the Elder God, is moot, when the moment Kain does finally die, with no proper heirs, vampires, left to become pillar guardians, the last remaining shreds of power contained in the crumbled pillars will allow the Hylden back to violently subjugate what is left of the corrupted Nosgoth. Kain doesn't fight to survive, he fights to restore Nosgoth to an uncorrupted state, and that wasn't wrapped up at all. Please do not disrespect the series by proclaiming it as finished. This is tantamount to claiming that if the Lord of the Rings ended after two movies, it was wrapped up because we could assume in our imaginations that Frodo would never give up. It makes no sense, leaves a bitter memory, and true fans deserve to witness the conclusion of the journey, including yourself.
@@zid9611 the literal "Legacy of Kain" is supposed to be a restored Nosgoth, not just a fancy name for the series. There was supposed to be meaning in the title, and without a conclusion, there is none.
We got the moment that mattered most. The coin flip thing was resolved. The latest paradox was vampire engineered, and Raziel chose to put vampires back in the driver's seat at the close. History now points to them becoming ascendent and Elder being forced into decline. The turning point of history was what we got. Kain is free of the trap. He is clear to spawn new vampires free of the devolving mess that happened in SoulReaver. He can now heal the balance pillar without sacrificing himself & raise new pillars at last. So we didn't get that conclusion in a movie but we got the roadblock removed that was preventing it from happening. The rest is "easy" clean up (just win, baby) as the new timeline of vampire victory unfolds and is fulfilled without need of any more paradox cheating. The legacy of kain all along was the broken world he broke. So they didn't fail to deliver on a promise there. They gave you his legacy in every game. It would be nice to see a conclusion where he offers the world a better destiny, though.
14:40 that part always gets me... because of kain characterization, im never really sure if when he says "in my wisdom" hes being sarcastic about his younger self or he's dead serious
There's a kind of parallel between Willam and Kain besides their similar hairstyle and shared possession of the Soul Reaver. Both were manipulated by Moebius in their youths, both went on to conquer Nosgoth as elders, and both were eventually targeted by younger foes also directed by Moebius, and by extension, the Elder God once their purpose was served. Where they diverge however is Kain actively became aware of the great plots of those who'd decide both Nosgoth's fate and his own and resistant them, while William died their pawn. Perhaps Kain took William's example as a cautionary tale to avoid and what might have inspired his search to avert the destiny ordained for him in the first place?
I specifically remember playing through the brief, albeit tense battle between the armies of The Last Hope and The Nemesis. The (by today's standards) dated graphics and limited sound design may have made it seem like a run of the mill fantasy PS1 game at first glance but to be actively be playing through such a ubiquitous moment in the game's story really took me aback in the best way possible. I remember I got cornered by some Nemesis troops when I took a wrong turn, so I took out the Soul Reaver, activated an Energy Bank and desperately started hacking them to pieces. It was such a moment of uneasy triumph.
The series may be over, but the lore is far from exhausted. The William plot was a great way to explore the consequences of time travel, and how actions reverberate through time.
William is the perfect example of what happens when time manipulation is able to run unchecked. Back when the Pillars were first designed, I imagine there were supposed to be checks on each of the Pillar Guardians. Mobius, being largely the architect of the twisted timelines we see in-game, probably had strong incentives to do away with the other Guardians, the individuals intended to check his influence. I think that is why he was so callous when Vorador attacked, and really, they were probably not the first set of Guardians he destroyed either directly or indirectly. The timeline is too precious to put into the hands of a single custodian, and this above everything else is what led to Nosgoth's dark fate. Willian the Just was just one more casualty of causality.
The greatest irony of it all is that, in the end, power-thirsty Mobius was none but a pawn in the Elder God's game. He literally sold out Nosgoth's fate, time and soul for power, a power that never truly belonged to him in the first place. That's a Faustian character if I've ever seen one.
@@Gnamut Well said. Mobius, who is always so smug in his deeply internalized confidence that he is the master of time and fate, only to be made the biggest fool of them all. Who knows how many souls he has funneled down the Elder God's gullet? Probably millions of beings. The infernal crime he has played across who knows how many timelines only ever gets one reckoning, and terrible though it is, part of me thinks it isn't enough.
@@daniell1483 Well, to me Mobius receiving the same fate as the many thousand souls that were assimilated by the Elder God was as much of a karmic punishment as you can expect for a character like him. While we don't know for sure, I usually imagine the souls still being conscious and aware of their existence while they're devoured by the Elder, in a rather unsettling "I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream" kind of scenario. Mobius having the same fate, a man who ultimately seeked to become everlasting, being reduced to nothing but ethereal self-aware dust, is just the perfect punishment for his crimes in my opinion.
@@Gnamut You may be right, but ultimately everything we know about the Wheel which the EG is parasitizing has been fed to us by the Elder God. Perhaps Mobius gets the "I have no mouth and must scream" treatment in the end, but what we know for certain is that the EG grows with every feeding of a soul, and it has described the ordeal as as reincarnation or rebirth. I guess it depends on what degree we trust its word on the matter. I personally imagine souls get broken down and stripped down to only their power to feed the EG. So I see Mobius' soul as being dissolved, essentially.
@@daniell1483 Yeah it breaks it down and refreshes it, but steals some of the energy from the souls while they pass through it (similar to how Raziel works, Raziel gets a tiny bit of the energy of each soul he devours while the rest is sent to the elder god who also takes a cut (same with the Elder God's other cleaners). Likely creating the gradual entropy that is destroying the world as after thousands of years, souls are becoming too weak to sustain life and the cycle is breaking down.
Perhaps being the Time Streamer gives Moebius the ability to see possible timelines. And in his study of them, he likely discovered that carefully-laid crafted traps for Kain would alter history and lead to the vampire genocide. But these plans might not have been conceived if not for Nupraptor's corruption of the Pillar Guardians upon Ariel's murder. This story has so many levels.
FINALLY!!! Whenever someone mentions LoK content, no one ever talks about the Nemesis even though he is a bad ass character. A warlord so powerful that Kane' s only option was to go into the past to stop him. A super underrated character indeed.
I’d say that given what we know about time in LoK, William was always going to cause a lot of death and Moebius just set the course for why. If he lives and is manipulated by Moebius, then it’s because he’s a conqueror; if he’s killed by Kain, then he inspires people to go after vampires. If neither of those circumstances had happened, then maybe he’s given another reason to start stomping about.
It's possible that the origin of the Nemesis was him killing an assassin in a soul reaver duel set up by Moebius, in that time line the assassin would have most likely been a human from a neighboring kingdom or someone trying to take William's crown and not a vampire which would explain why William became obsessed with conquest instead of vampire extermination.
I remember a theory I heard in this very channel about the moment in which the Nemesis timeline was created, and that was again at the moment when both young William and Kain fought each other wielding the Soul Reaver. In another timeline, it was Kain the one who got defeated and slained by William's hand, an event that Mobius profit to push the young king further into his suspicions of treason behind every corner, thus driving him into the path that would turn him into the Nemesis. What it's obvious about that theory is that in both cases, Nemesis and martyr timelines, it was not only the presence of two Soul Reavers in the same time and space what forced the timeline alteration, but Mobius' schemes to ensure that alteration took place exactly as he wished. William's fate wasn't even death or becoming a tyrant, but turning into the fair good-willed monarch Nosgoth needed; but we all know well about Mobius' power and tendency for taking people's real fates away from them and altering them to fulfill his own agenda.
Interesstingly, Moebius influence to William explains quite clearly, how he became the nemesis. Not only through weapons, but also through his warning of the assasin. Maybe Meobius send another vampire to kill Wiliam, which the latter defeated and not only boosted his confidence into his rulership, but also that Moebius even gained more of his trust, so he could manipulate him even better. Or the vampire assasin escsped, or never came, but Wiliam growing more and more paranoid, became more and more tyranical, wherever thanks to the time streamers whisperings or not. It's also worth mentioning that the Soul reaver maybe had an indirect corrupting influence on the king. I mean, that weapon was clearly not made for human hands.
This was a great analysis and summary of William. He's easily one of the most overlooked characters in the series despite having as much impact as the protagonists.
I always felt like Mobius's connection to the Time Pillar is what gave him the ability to travel through and manipulate time, and it was his manipulations that lead to the paradox of the Reaver which Kain discovered while using the Chrono machine in the distant future in Mobius's lair That is where he realized he could use that paradox to change the flow of time like Mobius innately did due to his gifts from the Pillar.
As I understand, Moebius part of "Aye, you've seen my plan" is nothing but another of his tricks. Moebius too has a destiny to follow on Nosgoth, who is to say that every machination of his, excluding the ones with Raziel, were too always meant to happen, like, corrupting William?
What's even more interesting is that the way time is described to work. William the Just was likely meant to conquer all of Nosgoth originally and Mobius just change how he went about it, but not that he actually did. So picture that, William the Just, ruler of Nosgoth. A kind king to rule the land of suffering and death. I feel like that would of been the happy ending for the entire affair had it gotten one.
I wish we could've fight William as the Nemesis. Sure he was older but I'm sure that Moebius would've empower him somehow. Or maybe the Hylden Lord(through Mortanius) would've corrupted him, explaining the demonic appearance of his armor.
No, thank you for these wonderful videos. It’s so cool that someone can delve so deep into a game series with such a rich but complicated lore. And then present it in such a well narrated story. Keep them coming.
I don't think Mobius altered the past to turn William into the Nemesis, rather he seems to be mocking Kain to enrage him and keep him from thinking too much about what he had just done. Also, based on the events in Defiance, one can even take it as Mobius having zero fear of getting killed by Kain since he knows him his god will revive him to carry out his next task. Mobius is merely spitting in the face of one he views as a simple pawn in a chess game.
About Mobius's death in Defiance... was he really resurrected to die again? I had always assumed that the temporal manipulations of the other games had lead to a timeline where Mobius escaped Kain... only for Kain to coincidentally find and kill him at the vampire citadel instead... which is 1.) hilarious, and 2.) fits well with how Raziel's own death by the Reaver is similarly delayed by time travel but not avoided.
Blood Omen is so rich with lore and character. I have no hesitation saying it along with Soul Reaver 2 (which I consider the true sequel) are my favourites by far.
I never thought there was a previous timeline -- Mobeius was always going to corrupt William. That was his play. At least until Kain came into the picture...
6:07 This is one of my absolutely favourite scenes in the game; the unmistakable voice of Tony Jay and his delivery of the lines of William. That hesitant yet haughty, confident and powerful tone. And later when you face him in battle, that "Ahhh yes, the Vampire. Moebius told me you would come . . "
Mobius is unable to directly alter history. To alter history a paradox needs to be triggered to disrupt the time stream. Also Mobius’s death is a fixed point, the only time in SR2 where Mobius is genuinely scared is at the beginning when Raziel comes at him with the conjoined reavers
There was a king of England a lot like William. A boy king turned tyrant who was manipulated by people around him, could have been killed during a revolt but was spared because the people saw him as an innocent child being manipulated. Richard the second of England.
Thank you so much for creating this amazing content, about a little known and almost forgotten franchise, that is without doubt one of the most interesting pieces of fiction ever devised. From a longtime and die-hard fan, thank you so much kind sir.
To set him up as the Nemesis, he likely killed his father younger than in the original timeline. Thus setting up a young boy who was still well educated and with a kind mind set, but with enough time to give him a tyrannical bent. So if William's father hadn't been killed early, he likely would have seen his father and learned how to rule from him, but been old and experienced enough to not easily be manipulated by Moebius. Just a thought
man, i never thought about the concept of a 1st paradox. i think that it is possible that much the same as the first time guardian saw into the future and came up with the prophecy of the hilden and vampire champions (possibly also looking at the different timelines that other paths might lead to) mobius could have seen the ripples of his actions through time and carefully elaborate a plan using the reaver from 2 points in history when it wasn't being used by anyone and just taking one and placing it next to the other, thus enabling a paradox at will.
This is just a thought, but I thought that the involvement of Moebius’ with King William’s downfall into the Nemesis isn’t necessarily describing an alternate timeline, but the first timeline in itself, with the implication being that, had he not been there to poison his mind, he would’ve had a just and fair kingdom, but it was always meant to be so that Moebius would poison his mind. Tl;dr: Moebius poisoning William’s mind was the first time; should anyone stop him, William would have been just, and THAT would’ve been the alternative timeline.
I will never tire of legacy of kain's lore and history, even in 2022 it's story still tops most recent games, it really does transcends time, fantastic vid will look forward to the next one 👍
A very intriguing look into the life of William the Bloody, The Nemesis. Have to admit, the one game I haven't tried yet is the original Blood Omen, but it really cool to understand more of its characters backstory. Time travel is such a unique concept, and the Legacy of Kain series did extremely well utilizing it. Cannot thank you enough for these videos. Legacy of Kain is still my favorite story-based game. Thank you again.
Mobius always turns William into the Nemesis, arming him with the Reaver. The Reaver is always at the Cathedral for Kain to find. A younger Kain only needs to run after the distortion of the blades clashing is felt, leaving the battle for another day. Markings on Kain's armor hinted at his origin, so William begins his conquest to search for the masters of his would-be assassin. Everything plays out as it did. That Kain completes his quest, refusing the sacrifice. With no crusade taking his life, Blood Omen 2 taking place in the prime timeline explains why Vorador is still alive. Keep in mind, Raziel didn't kill Mobius when he had the chance, so it's possible to maintain events even if the conditions for change are met. While Kain wouldn't know what the distortion was the first time the blades clashed, a Mobius watching from the shadows would. All Mobius has to do is one minor change in the visions he gives Kain, to fuel him with enough wrath to override his fear. The next time it happens, Kain swings a second time to sunder William's blade. It would fit Mobius the Schemer so perfectly to make only one subtle change using the same plan, yet having a drastically different effect.
Could you imagine a game where you play a game where youre a young king and provided weapons in a vague and nameless land, you slowly get older and darker and it progresses centuries ahead. Your army defeats a "last stand" army and after you win and see a man in black armor fleeing, you black out. When you wake up youre back at the begining of the game when you get your weapons and suddenly the person in black armor appears and you have an impossible boss fight and die...then it says the title of the game then and only then appears "Legacy of Kain" under the title.
The paradox is major moments that shatter the stream, but Mobious slowly manipulating William is just gently guiding the stream. Thus no need for the paradox, he just simply needed to correctly guide the stream to heading he wished.
I love your LOK videos. For me it's a better story than Lord of the rings or Star Wars but nobody I talk to has ever heard of it sadly. Keep up the great work man.
Man I love these videos, so much nostalgia. I remembered playing Nosgoth (the PVP Steam game ) with a friend of mine that unfortunately passed away while on service. Thanks
I think William was always the tyrant, and Mobius' line is more of a sarcastic eye roll to Kain, like a "oh.. you got me .. yep that was always my plan, now cut my head off and go resurrect the instrument of your own destruction" kind of a thing.
Love your content. A friend suggested i get Soul reaver and I was hooked straight away. I've played them all except for Blood omen I, although emulating it is definitely on my to do list. It's weird because I was 14 when I played soul reaver and most of the lore went completely over my head. I enjoyed it but I didn't understand it, but it was by discussing it with my friend and replaying and paying proper attention whilst older did I come to realise how great the story is and it's a real shame that the story was left unfinished. I feel it had huge potential, but then again it could have been a flop, who knows. Your video is well researched, your editing is great, the sound mix is very good (for me at the very least) and it's impressive how you add thoughts and inspire discussion on this very old and forgotten franchise. Again, thanks for making these, they're amazing :)
LoK is so deep, you can use it for self-exploration instead of Bible i dare you start looking for personal signs and insights in these games - you will find them i thoroughly followed and identified with Raziel in his journey, but as i grow old with every revisit Kain gets more and more attention from me it's like my life is more influenced by a character i didn't understand, didn't want to and kinda ignored i get what Raziel is, but Kain is only starting to uncover for me... i get more valuable lessons from exploring his path stay true to the series and revisit it once in a while, you can always grow analyzing this shit p.s. THANK YOU DUDE, KEEP EM COMING! the vampire/hylden champion video changed my life
That's right. Raziel is much like a naïve youth who makes plenty of mistakes but he develops and learns overtime. He's relatable because we can sympathize with his plight as many of us when we were younger also made mistakes. Kain on the other hand, embodies the older wiser veteran. It's interesting that as we grow older a lot of us end up relating more to Kain.
So good. All the coverage of the game and details really revitalizes the memory of it all as a young teen getting sucked into soul reaver series long after playing Blood Omen. Thank you so much.
Awesome. Loving the references - which just goes to show its well researched. I think the only thing I might've added was the explicit confirmation from the SK faq that William was 'just' "in a previous timeline". Top notch.
I don't think Moebious needed a paradox to turn William into a bloodthirsty tyrant. I don't think History cares enough about a bunch of cities being ravaged. If Raziel and Kain are pebbles in the stream of History without a paradox, then so is the Nemesis or William. The significant thing that needed a paradox, William's martyrdom, lead to the extermination of an entire species. That is significant. A mortal human ruler taking over another kingdom or two, however bloodily, doesn't compare. The amount of mortal souls in the Wheel of Fate remain the same. Another thought, I wonder if things like this, a just king turning into a warmongering tyrant, is what a Conflict Guardian is supposed to manage. If so, that's a cool little detail that we first hear from the Nemesis when looking for a solution to Malek.
Conflict Guardian idea totally works--Malek was out to lunch, allowing conflict to spread unchecked because nupraptor-insane....... AND because Moe and Mort had demoted him into their whipping boy, so Moe could have just ordered Malek to let the Nemesis take over the world, like Moe needed to happen as part of his plan.
"Fear" can make even the most kindest of people turn ugly. Imagine living in fear each and every day of your life knowing an event will come to pass, but when exactly it will is not answered. That would drive you into fear, then madness, then cold, and finally you become someone who was the complete opposite of who you once were. That was what Mobius did to William the Just.
Blood omen is the first game I purchased with my own money, I remember being so excited to play it. Many years later I still revisit as it remains a classic. Thank you for this video.
Poor william indeed...is incredible how he is the beloved figure between the human folk and the impulse to get the most violent massacre across Nosgoth...but also the notion he is only the tool of the weaver and the match to provoque the storm againts all vampires...and how humanity is unkown of the truth and the crokked hidden manipulations from beyond...
In a Legacy full of twists and turns, this was the one that when as a kid playing for the first time, left my mouth completely agape. I couldn't believe I'd been manipulated like that by Moebius, and could not believe that video games were able to tell a story like this. The series went on to grander things in the SR series, but as you say, the ripples of this moment are felt throughout the rest of the millenia that the series covers. Amy's later weaving this into the SR games and Defiance was absolutely masterful. We'll never see the like of this in gaming again.
I really like your videos on LOK series. I remember i played Soul Reaver 2 when i was a kid, and because of not understaning english back then, i never understood what's going on in the game. Your videos explain everything with additional context, and that makes me wanna play entire series, and explore those games on my own. Thanks for that!
It shows how good a manipulator Moebius is that he convinced Kain to kill William in the past so he wouldn't become The Nemesis in the future knowing that the humans would go after the vampires anyway for Kain's killing of a good man.
I want a remake of this series so badly :( thank you so SO much for continuing to show love to this world and these characters. This series was so formative in my younger years and I would absolutely love to be able to play it again and experience it in its true glory as an adult. We appreciate you!
I think Moebius turned William into a cruel tyrant by simply giving him the Soulreaver. Before the jump back in time we encounter a huge statue depicting William wielding a serpentine greatsword, i think that was the SR given to him by Norbius even in the iriginal timeline. Besides, the SR contains Raziel's soul, made insane by centuries of imprisonment, i think it's enough to drive to madness anyone who owns the sword for extended periods of time.
This has been the single greatest game I've ever played. There are rumors that it could make a comeback, as happy as that makes me, I prefer things remain as they are. If the original cast and developers are not involved with it, we run the risks of damaging this remarkable piece of work "LIKE THE HALO SERIES" after 343 studios took the helm of the series, the franchise lost its magic. Dennis Dyak and Daniel Cabuco need to be involved with the project as well as the cast, if possible. This is only my humble opinion, thanks for these amazing videos.
Simply Amazing. Your continuing coverage of Nosgoth Lore should not go down into the annals of obscure fantasy lore without inspiring the thousands of ears you touch. If this humble, fellow, Nosgothian historian may make a suggestion for future topics? He may die happy. Please, Grand Sire, cover the Corruption Nupraptor infected the circle of nine with. Also known as the Blood Curse which caused Kain’s legion’s of vampires to Devolve…or Evolve as they called it. Thank you…Kindly.
Is always a pleasure to spend my time hearing such a wonderful and deep analysis in the lore that I fell in love. I have questions that apparently you alone can answer. I've always wandered why Janos knows Raziel's name before hand.
My theory: The Ancient Vampires had some access to Time Magic, given they created the Pillars which includes one for Time. Likely not enough to travel forwards and backwards, but probably enough to divine prophecies like those of the Champions. Perhaps they learned the name of the one chosen for the Reaver that way. The end of Soul Reaver 1 is at a place where Mobius could view certain scenes of past and future, so Time Magic covers more that travel.
@@Watcher40K9 that makes a lot of sense, somehow in all these years I've never realized something so obvious, in that scene when Raziel meets Janos for the first time a part of me was always like "but for real how do you know him??"... they literally created the pillar of Time, such a simple but effective explanation.
I loved this game when i was like 10 years old. I would even go so far to say, it had a impact on my personality. In 6th grade, me and 4 friends made a puppet play about the story. We narrowed it down a bit, and it was mainly focused around Mortanius and Kain. I remember the Parents watching beeing really shocked. Still got it on tape, cause my father recorded it. Poor quality though. When Soul Reaver, and later Blood Omen 2 came out, it broke my heart. I know, some people love that games, but i felt like they where something totally different. That feeling from Legacy of Kain was gone, and i felt like they were messing with the world and the lore. To this day, im still waiting for a Legacy of Kain remake, or a proper reboot.
I like to imagine that right after the events of Blood Omen2 and before the events of Soul Reaver. Kain goes into Vampiric Hibernation to undergo his evolutionary change. When he wakes up again he finds his cities are in ruin, and his kind nearing extinction once again finding out that during his torpor the descendent of William the Just gathers an army and kills nearly all of Voroador's surviving Vampire children. Allied with another Disciple of the Elder God and wielding Moebius's Staff and the Hylden's Glyph Magic. William the Just's descendent lays siege onto Nosgoth giving Kain the motivation to raise Raziel and his brothers for the purpose of building a new Vampire Legion that is strictly loyal to him.
It may be overly simplistic, but all Mobius might have done was take a reaver from somewhere in time, then go to William and give him the reaver from that time while he carries the other one in a backpack or something and afterwards return the second reaver from whenever he took it. It might have been enough to just carry it around for a bit to alter the timeline.
I LOVE the voice clips from the original blood omen game! I believe there is a website to download multiple voice files, however I noticed that some files were missing or were just not uploaded yet...
"William dies a martyred saint and I, his vampire assassin, become the author of my own species extinction and Moebius profits from it all. I destroyed a tyrant only to create one far worse."
The dialogue is so rich. I love listening to it and showing it off in these vids as much as I can.
thats such a nice way to finde the right words to describe the situation
@@strictlyfantasy CONTINUE TO DO LOK CLIPS I WATCH YOU EVERY TIME. FIRST GAME IS BEST STORY IN GAMING HISTORY. I LOVED THIS GAME IN CHILDHOOD SAME NOW. IT IS BEST STORYPLOT EVER CREATED IN INDUSTRY OF VIDEO GAMES.
It remind us how chaotic it would be if we meddle with time.
Kain really got played like a fiddle.
"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." is a perfectly fitting quote for William.
And Kain.
And also, arguably, Raziel... although in his case it would be "Die a villain enough times and you will eventually see yourself become a hero".
I mean, it sounds pretty good, but it really means "You will either change or you will die before you change", which is a very obvious statement.
Also, as the video pointed, it was entirely possible Will would be nice to the end, if not for evil schemes.
Let's take a moment to truly appreciate the wicked game of 4D chess Moebius was playing. He set a new time-line into being, just so he could manipulate Kain into going back and undoing it, thereby birthing a new time-line where Moebius got what he truly wanted.
Yeah, he's a next level mastermind.
@@strictlyfantasy Was he a Mastermind, or merely a vital part of a delicate machination that would lead to his own demise. After All, being a Pillar Guardian he had to know the reasons behind their creation.
@@TwiceStruck he was both. he was use but he is still a genius manipulator
he was a pawn of a parasite, nothing more. True VIP goes to Mortanius for essentially being Snape
@@ProffessorYellow in what way?
My theory on the first timeline change is that Mobius killed the previous monarch thus making William become king at a young age where he can be manipulated easily. Perhaps if he was supposed to become king aged 30 or 40 he wouldn't have bought what Mobius was saying
I never thought of that, but that fits into Moebius' character perfectly
I like that one!
Great idea.
Ive allways felt the interesting thing about LOK is its use of two types of time travel. Where all characters operate on the default fixed timeline method. Meaning people who travel back in time cant change the future becuase those events in the past already happened by them. Mobius had allwyas met with William and set him towards the nemasis path. The only exception to this is Raziel or his soul, is the only being who funtions on the Dynamic Timeline method which means he actually can alter history. So due to his presence in the sword, an in my personal headcannon is what ever resonince of conciousness remaining in his long trapped future version of his soul, chose to alter history at that moment. In anycase i dont think there was any timeline where william made it to old age as a kind king.
This makes sense. A boy king being manipulated by his advisor is something that has happened many times in history. This was the case with the last emperor of China.
I’ve got an interesting idea. What if Kain was able to rally the Army of Hope and actually defeated the Nemesis? How would that change things? I personally could see vampires becoming heroes instead of villains in the eyes of the people. Champions of good who triumphed over evil. Which would really mess with Moebius plans lol. But what else would change?
The arc of the Nemesis could have easily been the focus of an entire game.
It really should have. The time traveling paradox storyline between Kain and Razy is just too long and weird
it almost is I mean, blood omen 1 is like 75 percent william the just plot, with some vae victus and vorador
That is Blood Omen 1.
I will never forget the scene when Kain beheads Moebius. That was the first ever bad ass video game cut scene I saw at that time.
"But I am dead." Proceeds to chop his head off. "As are you." So badass especially since it is said that people retain consciousness for a few seconds after being decapitated. So Moebius heard Kain say that before he died.
@@strictlyfantasy Works both ways sadly, imagine the scene Moebius, beheading Vorador, seeing Kain, last surviving Vampire in Nosgoth before *dead*. Albeit the mind would be immensely confused at the time of death so I doubt that's somewhat relevant, in a way.
"I destroyed a tyrant only to create one far worse" I find this statement from Kain interesting, as it seems that he laments his pursuit of being Nostogth's "Solitary Monarch"
Mobius took over the government and launched a genocide. As interesting as it would be if Kain was offering a bit of self-reflection, he was referring to how his own naivete had allowed Mobius to take totalitarian power.
I mean his goal is to undo everything he did and die back in blood omen 1, to "fulfill his destiny". To me it rings that he has a level of self loathing. While showing that he has his own twisted morality/logic, that no matter who he kills it doesn't matter since if he can fulfill his plan, time is undone and they never died to begin with. I find it interesting to think about
@@MajorJakas I never thought about that!
@@kylepeters8690 It kinda plays into a concept that goes somewhat unheard but is fundamental to Kain's character: the corruption of the Pillars and the madness of the Circle. Being a Guardian, Kain was affected since his birth by the very same madness that affected the Guardians he hunted and massacred in Blood Omen. That makes him very much a tragic character, because he lived the entirety of his human life and then centuries of vampiric unlife in this state of mental impairment. He is only ever cured of his madness when Raziel sacrifices himself and heals his mind. For the first time in his existence, Kain allows himself to hope...
@@kainslegacy78618 that is something I found odd, they talk about how he was corrupted and mad, but we never really see any truth to this, the most we see is a power hunger, a quick adaption to his new vampiric unlife (like saying a life without blood is a fate worse than death, even while he seeks his cure). The only thing I can think is his form of corruption was lessened by only just being born or perhaps being the balance guardian, instead of driving him mad, leaving him with a disregard for all life and maybe a general melancholic nature when not killing (since he seems to enjoy it while being a bit more mopey outside battle) but even that doesn't line up as he mentions in blood omen that where he lived taught survival of the fittest and had king Otmar ruled where he lived, he would have been long dead and replaced. It's hard to really figure out what Kain's corruption is
It's really crazy to me how good the voice acting in BO1 considering so many other games had terrible voice acting at the time.
Man the time travel logic throughout this whole series is crazy yet it's not that confusing.
Yup, Blood Omen came out in 1996. Voice acting was way ahead of its time.
Wanna know something crazy? Ariel is voiced by Anna Gunn, also known as Skylar White.
@@Xarfax321
Yeah, I am aware of that.
"Mobius propelled William and me together, but ensured FIRST, that we were BOTH armed with the Soul Reaver. The Reaver is the key, Raziel. Two incarnations of the blade, meet, in the exact same moment in time and space. A paradox is created; a temporal distortion powerful enough, to derail history."
After all what is happened, Kain at first was mostly just a man interested in solve his own problems, but the more he tries, the more he saw the consequences his and other people's actions.
William is a reflection of Kain, Kain at the begining of his quest isn't nothing more than a pawn in a bigger game, at the end he was the central piece, while William, desíte be a central peice at the begining, ended up as a pawn of Moebius.
Raziel never learned the lessons of Kain's journey throughout Blood Omen. The rush into everything recklessly makes you easily manipulated.
He was never ment to he was kains manipulatee
@@trollilol3819 I disagree. Kain is constantly providing advice and lessons to Raziel in Soul Reaver 2 and from both games and Defiance we know he was taught of Kain's journey as a fledgling. Kain clearly cares for Raziel hence his shock twice in Defiance when Raziel is being absorbed by the Reaver.
@@cultist1762 I ment in his vampire form he was looked at as a God why would he tell his fledglings of a time he was weak when raziel is recounting kains deification in soul reaver its a look back after he'd gained more Knollege and became kains ally and apparent at least near equal in power I know Kain didnt wanna kill him but raziel was someone Kain had to defend himself from
As a vampire the lieutenants of pains army where just glorified goons at least as far as Kain was concerned remember he's not a very loving creature
I just dont remember raziel recounting kains story but I may be misremembering time for a replay! Lol
Hell yeah, more Legacy of Kain content. One of the greatest franchises of all time, certainly the best left unfinished. Thank you for these videos which carry the torch of rememberance.
In a odd way you can say it does have a ending. After all we are left with kain with clear vision as he can see what truly going on. And as long as the current kain does influence anything till the time he left in Soul Reaver. He wins. As the wheel can't do anything to him. And if he is found by kain... kain can hurt or kill him. Kain literal existence is the balance and has accept it.
@@zid9611 I Regret never ever Both Soul Reavers before my PSX blow
@@zid9611 the point of all five games was to find a way to restore the pillars of nosgoth. The "coin landing on it's side" was the only way for Nosgoth to win, as both alternatives were rigged so as to destroy the pillars and allow the Hylden to return. Kain living or dying, and the same with the Elder God, is moot, when the moment Kain does finally die, with no proper heirs, vampires, left to become pillar guardians, the last remaining shreds of power contained in the crumbled pillars will allow the Hylden back to violently subjugate what is left of the corrupted Nosgoth. Kain doesn't fight to survive, he fights to restore Nosgoth to an uncorrupted state, and that wasn't wrapped up at all. Please do not disrespect the series by proclaiming it as finished. This is tantamount to claiming that if the Lord of the Rings ended after two movies, it was wrapped up because we could assume in our imaginations that Frodo would never give up. It makes no sense, leaves a bitter memory, and true fans deserve to witness the conclusion of the journey, including yourself.
@@zid9611 the literal "Legacy of Kain" is supposed to be a restored Nosgoth, not just a fancy name for the series. There was supposed to be meaning in the title, and without a conclusion, there is none.
We got the moment that mattered most. The coin flip thing was resolved. The latest paradox was vampire engineered, and Raziel chose to put vampires back in the driver's seat at the close. History now points to them becoming ascendent and Elder being forced into decline. The turning point of history was what we got. Kain is free of the trap. He is clear to spawn new vampires free of the devolving mess that happened in SoulReaver. He can now heal the balance pillar without sacrificing himself & raise new pillars at last. So we didn't get that conclusion in a movie but we got the roadblock removed that was preventing it from happening. The rest is "easy" clean up (just win, baby) as the new timeline of vampire victory unfolds and is fulfilled without need of any more paradox cheating.
The legacy of kain all along was the broken world he broke. So they didn't fail to deliver on a promise there. They gave you his legacy in every game. It would be nice to see a conclusion where he offers the world a better destiny, though.
14:40 that part always gets me... because of kain characterization, im never really sure if when he says "in my wisdom" hes being sarcastic about his younger self or he's dead serious
There's a kind of parallel between Willam and Kain besides their similar hairstyle and shared possession of the Soul Reaver.
Both were manipulated by Moebius in their youths, both went on to conquer Nosgoth as elders, and both were eventually targeted by younger foes also directed by Moebius, and by extension, the Elder God once their purpose was served.
Where they diverge however is Kain actively became aware of the great plots of those who'd decide both Nosgoth's fate and his own and resistant them, while William died their pawn. Perhaps Kain took William's example as a cautionary tale to avoid and what might have inspired his search to avert the destiny ordained for him in the first place?
I completely forgot Tony Jay voiced the boy king William, that's actually pretty funny. They really got a lot out of old Tony in this series.
I specifically remember playing through the brief, albeit tense battle between the armies of The Last Hope and The Nemesis. The (by today's standards) dated graphics and limited sound design may have made it seem like a run of the mill fantasy PS1 game at first glance but to be actively be playing through such a ubiquitous moment in the game's story really took me aback in the best way possible. I remember I got cornered by some Nemesis troops when I took a wrong turn, so I took out the Soul Reaver, activated an Energy Bank and desperately started hacking them to pieces. It was such a moment of uneasy triumph.
I love memorable moments like that in gaming. Seems to happen less oftern now with games these days...
The series may be over, but the lore is far from exhausted.
The William plot was a great way to explore the consequences of time travel, and how actions reverberate through time.
William is the perfect example of what happens when time manipulation is able to run unchecked. Back when the Pillars were first designed, I imagine there were supposed to be checks on each of the Pillar Guardians. Mobius, being largely the architect of the twisted timelines we see in-game, probably had strong incentives to do away with the other Guardians, the individuals intended to check his influence. I think that is why he was so callous when Vorador attacked, and really, they were probably not the first set of Guardians he destroyed either directly or indirectly. The timeline is too precious to put into the hands of a single custodian, and this above everything else is what led to Nosgoth's dark fate. Willian the Just was just one more casualty of causality.
The greatest irony of it all is that, in the end, power-thirsty Mobius was none but a pawn in the Elder God's game. He literally sold out Nosgoth's fate, time and soul for power, a power that never truly belonged to him in the first place. That's a Faustian character if I've ever seen one.
@@Gnamut Well said. Mobius, who is always so smug in his deeply internalized confidence that he is the master of time and fate, only to be made the biggest fool of them all. Who knows how many souls he has funneled down the Elder God's gullet? Probably millions of beings. The infernal crime he has played across who knows how many timelines only ever gets one reckoning, and terrible though it is, part of me thinks it isn't enough.
@@daniell1483 Well, to me Mobius receiving the same fate as the many thousand souls that were assimilated by the Elder God was as much of a karmic punishment as you can expect for a character like him. While we don't know for sure, I usually imagine the souls still being conscious and aware of their existence while they're devoured by the Elder, in a rather unsettling "I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream" kind of scenario. Mobius having the same fate, a man who ultimately seeked to become everlasting, being reduced to nothing but ethereal self-aware dust, is just the perfect punishment for his crimes in my opinion.
@@Gnamut You may be right, but ultimately everything we know about the Wheel which the EG is parasitizing has been fed to us by the Elder God. Perhaps Mobius gets the "I have no mouth and must scream" treatment in the end, but what we know for certain is that the EG grows with every feeding of a soul, and it has described the ordeal as as reincarnation or rebirth. I guess it depends on what degree we trust its word on the matter. I personally imagine souls get broken down and stripped down to only their power to feed the EG. So I see Mobius' soul as being dissolved, essentially.
@@daniell1483 Yeah it breaks it down and refreshes it, but steals some of the energy from the souls while they pass through it (similar to how Raziel works, Raziel gets a tiny bit of the energy of each soul he devours while the rest is sent to the elder god who also takes a cut (same with the Elder God's other cleaners). Likely creating the gradual entropy that is destroying the world as after thousands of years, souls are becoming too weak to sustain life and the cycle is breaking down.
6:07 - It's so strange, in hindsight, hearing Richard Doyle's character using Tony Jay's as a pawn...
Really Simons voice is amazing… the way he speaks is just… speachless.. I cannot imagine someone else doing kains voice
Yeah, Simon Templeman is one of the greatest voice actors to ever live.
Bill Nighy comes close
Perhaps being the Time Streamer gives Moebius the ability to see possible timelines. And in his study of them, he likely discovered that carefully-laid crafted traps for Kain would alter history and lead to the vampire genocide. But these plans might not have been conceived if not for Nupraptor's corruption of the Pillar Guardians upon Ariel's murder. This story has so many levels.
FINALLY!!! Whenever someone mentions LoK content, no one ever talks about the Nemesis even though he is a bad ass character. A warlord so powerful that Kane' s only option was to go into the past to stop him. A super underrated character indeed.
I’d say that given what we know about time in LoK, William was always going to cause a lot of death and Moebius just set the course for why. If he lives and is manipulated by Moebius, then it’s because he’s a conqueror; if he’s killed by Kain, then he inspires people to go after vampires. If neither of those circumstances had happened, then maybe he’s given another reason to start stomping about.
It's possible that the origin of the Nemesis was him killing an assassin in a soul reaver duel set up by Moebius, in that time line the assassin would have most likely been a human from a neighboring kingdom or someone trying to take William's crown and not a vampire which would explain why William became obsessed with conquest instead of vampire extermination.
I remember a theory I heard in this very channel about the moment in which the Nemesis timeline was created, and that was again at the moment when both young William and Kain fought each other wielding the Soul Reaver. In another timeline, it was Kain the one who got defeated and slained by William's hand, an event that Mobius profit to push the young king further into his suspicions of treason behind every corner, thus driving him into the path that would turn him into the Nemesis.
What it's obvious about that theory is that in both cases, Nemesis and martyr timelines, it was not only the presence of two Soul Reavers in the same time and space what forced the timeline alteration, but Mobius' schemes to ensure that alteration took place exactly as he wished. William's fate wasn't even death or becoming a tyrant, but turning into the fair good-willed monarch Nosgoth needed; but we all know well about Mobius' power and tendency for taking people's real fates away from them and altering them to fulfill his own agenda.
Interesstingly, Moebius influence to William explains quite clearly, how he became the nemesis. Not only through weapons, but also through his warning of the assasin. Maybe Meobius send another vampire to kill Wiliam, which the latter defeated and not only boosted his confidence into his rulership, but also that Moebius even gained more of his trust, so he could manipulate him even better. Or the vampire assasin escsped, or never came, but Wiliam growing more and more paranoid, became more and more tyranical, wherever thanks to the time streamers whisperings or not. It's also worth mentioning that the Soul reaver maybe had an indirect corrupting influence on the king. I mean, that weapon was clearly not made for human hands.
This was a great analysis and summary of William. He's easily one of the most overlooked characters in the series despite having as much impact as the protagonists.
I always felt like Mobius's connection to the Time Pillar is what gave him the ability to travel through and manipulate time, and it was his manipulations that lead to the paradox of the Reaver which Kain discovered while using the Chrono machine in the distant future in Mobius's lair That is where he realized he could use that paradox to change the flow of time like Mobius innately did due to his gifts from the Pillar.
As I understand, Moebius part of "Aye, you've seen my plan" is nothing but another of his tricks.
Moebius too has a destiny to follow on Nosgoth, who is to say that every machination of his, excluding the ones with Raziel, were too always meant to happen, like, corrupting William?
thats a bingo!
These events would also fashion Kain’s worldview and his desire to find an alternate path to fate itself. The coin landing on its side…
I think that Mobius used the paradox of the reaver to change time; by having Kains' Soulreaver break Williams' one.
What's even more interesting is that the way time is described to work. William the Just was likely meant to conquer all of Nosgoth originally and Mobius just change how he went about it, but not that he actually did. So picture that, William the Just, ruler of Nosgoth. A kind king to rule the land of suffering and death. I feel like that would of been the happy ending for the entire affair had it gotten one.
I wish we could've fight William as the Nemesis. Sure he was older but I'm sure that Moebius would've empower him somehow. Or maybe the Hylden Lord(through Mortanius) would've corrupted him, explaining the demonic appearance of his armor.
No, thank you for these wonderful videos. It’s so cool that someone can delve so deep into a game series with such a rich but complicated lore. And then present it in such a well narrated story. Keep them coming.
I never knew the lore and story of the LoK saga was so fascinating. Boy, did I miss out.
I don't think Mobius altered the past to turn William into the Nemesis, rather he seems to be mocking Kain to enrage him and keep him from thinking too much about what he had just done.
Also, based on the events in Defiance, one can even take it as Mobius having zero fear of getting killed by Kain since he knows him his god will revive him to carry out his next task. Mobius is merely spitting in the face of one he views as a simple pawn in a chess game.
About Mobius's death in Defiance... was he really resurrected to die again? I had always assumed that the temporal manipulations of the other games had lead to a timeline where Mobius escaped Kain... only for Kain to coincidentally find and kill him at the vampire citadel instead... which is 1.) hilarious, and 2.) fits well with how Raziel's own death by the Reaver is similarly delayed by time travel but not avoided.
Blood Omen is so rich with lore and character. I have no hesitation saying it along with Soul Reaver 2 (which I consider the true sequel) are my favourites by far.
I love these videos. Theres so much lore in the lok universe, so many characters to explore.
Keep up the LoK content I'll always watch this series.
Youre legacy of Kain content is top tier. Love them all
I never thought there was a previous timeline -- Mobeius was always going to corrupt William. That was his play. At least until Kain came into the picture...
6:07 This is one of my absolutely favourite scenes in the game; the unmistakable voice of Tony Jay and his delivery of the lines of William. That hesitant yet haughty, confident and powerful tone. And later when you face him in battle, that "Ahhh yes, the Vampire. Moebius told me you would come . . "
Mobius is unable to directly alter history. To alter history a paradox needs to be triggered to disrupt the time stream. Also Mobius’s death is a fixed point, the only time in SR2 where Mobius is genuinely scared is at the beginning when Raziel comes at him with the conjoined reavers
There was a king of England a lot like William. A boy king turned tyrant who was manipulated by people around him, could have been killed during a revolt but was spared because the people saw him as an innocent child being manipulated. Richard the second of England.
just love how efficient and brutal kain is that scene where he beheads mobius is jsut amazing
Thank you so much for creating this amazing content, about a little known and almost forgotten franchise, that is without doubt one of the most interesting pieces of fiction ever devised. From a longtime and die-hard fan, thank you so much kind sir.
THIS. this should have been the Legacy of Kain storyline. William the Just paradox with Raziel as the time traveling hero
To set him up as the Nemesis, he likely killed his father younger than in the original timeline. Thus setting up a young boy who was still well educated and with a kind mind set, but with enough time to give him a tyrannical bent.
So if William's father hadn't been killed early, he likely would have seen his father and learned how to rule from him, but been old and experienced enough to not easily be manipulated by Moebius.
Just a thought
man, i never thought about the concept of a 1st paradox. i think that it is possible that much the same as the first time guardian saw into the future and came up with the prophecy of the hilden and vampire champions (possibly also looking at the different timelines that other paths might lead to) mobius could have seen the ripples of his actions through time and carefully elaborate a plan using the reaver from 2 points in history when it wasn't being used by anyone and just taking one and placing it next to the other, thus enabling a paradox at will.
Legacy of Kain is by far one of the best stories told through video games; love your videos man.
I wish this franchise will get continuation or a reboot. People are missing such a gem of a franchise.
Sure
It's rumored that Soul Reaver is getting a remaster for ps5 that is already being worked on.
This is just a thought, but I thought that the involvement of Moebius’ with King William’s downfall into the Nemesis isn’t necessarily describing an alternate timeline, but the first timeline in itself, with the implication being that, had he not been there to poison his mind, he would’ve had a just and fair kingdom, but it was always meant to be so that Moebius would poison his mind.
Tl;dr: Moebius poisoning William’s mind was the first time; should anyone stop him, William would have been just, and THAT would’ve been the alternative timeline.
I will never tire of legacy of kain's lore and history, even in 2022 it's story still tops most recent games, it really does transcends time, fantastic vid will look forward to the next one 👍
Love these in depth lore videos on the Legacy of Kain series 👌
A very intriguing look into the life of William the Bloody, The Nemesis. Have to admit, the one game I haven't tried yet is the original Blood Omen, but it really cool to understand more of its characters backstory. Time travel is such a unique concept, and the Legacy of Kain series did extremely well utilizing it. Cannot thank you enough for these videos. Legacy of Kain is still my favorite story-based game. Thank you again.
Mobius always turns William into the Nemesis, arming him with the Reaver. The Reaver is always at the Cathedral for Kain to find. A younger Kain only needs to run after the distortion of the blades clashing is felt, leaving the battle for another day. Markings on Kain's armor hinted at his origin, so William begins his conquest to search for the masters of his would-be assassin. Everything plays out as it did. That Kain completes his quest, refusing the sacrifice. With no crusade taking his life, Blood Omen 2 taking place in the prime timeline explains why Vorador is still alive. Keep in mind, Raziel didn't kill Mobius when he had the chance, so it's possible to maintain events even if the conditions for change are met. While Kain wouldn't know what the distortion was the first time the blades clashed, a Mobius watching from the shadows would. All Mobius has to do is one minor change in the visions he gives Kain, to fuel him with enough wrath to override his fear. The next time it happens, Kain swings a second time to sunder William's blade. It would fit Mobius the Schemer so perfectly to make only one subtle change using the same plan, yet having a drastically different effect.
I'm totally adding this to my playlist.
Could you imagine a game where you play a game where youre a young king and provided weapons in a vague and nameless land, you slowly get older and darker and it progresses centuries ahead. Your army defeats a "last stand" army and after you win and see a man in black armor fleeing, you black out. When you wake up youre back at the begining of the game when you get your weapons and suddenly the person in black armor appears and you have an impossible boss fight and die...then it says the title of the game then and only then appears "Legacy of Kain" under the title.
Existential crisis, here we come. Just like I like them.
The paradox is major moments that shatter the stream, but Mobious slowly manipulating William is just gently guiding the stream. Thus no need for the paradox, he just simply needed to correctly guide the stream to heading he wished.
I love your LOK videos. For me it's a better story than Lord of the rings or Star Wars but nobody I talk to has ever heard of it sadly. Keep up the great work man.
Freaking woot! Loving the lok vids, good sir. Keep up the amazing work.
Man I love these videos, so much nostalgia. I remembered playing Nosgoth (the PVP Steam game ) with a friend of mine that unfortunately passed away while on service. Thanks
I think William was always the tyrant, and Mobius' line is more of a sarcastic eye roll to Kain, like a "oh.. you got me .. yep that was always my plan, now cut my head off and go resurrect the instrument of your own destruction" kind of a thing.
Love your content. A friend suggested i get Soul reaver and I was hooked straight away. I've played them all except for Blood omen I, although emulating it is definitely on my to do list.
It's weird because I was 14 when I played soul reaver and most of the lore went completely over my head. I enjoyed it but I didn't understand it, but it was by discussing it with my friend and replaying and paying proper attention whilst older did I come to realise how great the story is and it's a real shame that the story was left unfinished. I feel it had huge potential, but then again it could have been a flop, who knows.
Your video is well researched, your editing is great, the sound mix is very good (for me at the very least) and it's impressive how you add thoughts and inspire discussion on this very old and forgotten franchise.
Again, thanks for making these, they're amazing :)
Thank you. As for Blood Omen. You should consider getting it on GoG. It's cheap and you'll have a better time, then emulating it.
This game has the potential to be the soul reaver of every big game title in our modern era, a true legacy led by kain
"But I am dead ,as are you" savage kain
LoK is so deep, you can use it for self-exploration instead of Bible
i dare you start looking for personal signs and insights in these games - you will find them
i thoroughly followed and identified with Raziel in his journey, but as i grow old with every revisit Kain gets more and more attention from me
it's like my life is more influenced by a character i didn't understand, didn't want to and kinda ignored
i get what Raziel is, but Kain is only starting to uncover for me... i get more valuable lessons from exploring his path
stay true to the series and revisit it once in a while, you can always grow analyzing this shit
p.s. THANK YOU DUDE, KEEP EM COMING!
the vampire/hylden champion video changed my life
That's right. Raziel is much like a naïve youth who makes plenty of mistakes but he develops and learns overtime. He's relatable because we can sympathize with his plight as many of us when we were younger also made mistakes. Kain on the other hand, embodies the older wiser veteran. It's interesting that as we grow older a lot of us end up relating more to Kain.
I see nothing minor here. This is a great series I'm thankful to have played from start to finish.
Please keep the videos running.
So good. All the coverage of the game and details really revitalizes the memory of it all as a young teen getting sucked into soul reaver series long after playing Blood Omen. Thank you so much.
As always, a really well put video! Especially appreciate the effort to produce an essay about a character that's often overlooked in LoK content.
Awesome. Loving the references - which just goes to show its well researched. I think the only thing I might've added was the explicit confirmation from the SK faq that William was 'just' "in a previous timeline". Top notch.
You’re videos are amazing, I played these games as a teenager and they mean the world to me.
I don't think Moebious needed a paradox to turn William into a bloodthirsty tyrant. I don't think History cares enough about a bunch of cities being ravaged. If Raziel and Kain are pebbles in the stream of History without a paradox, then so is the Nemesis or William. The significant thing that needed a paradox, William's martyrdom, lead to the extermination of an entire species. That is significant. A mortal human ruler taking over another kingdom or two, however bloodily, doesn't compare. The amount of mortal souls in the Wheel of Fate remain the same.
Another thought, I wonder if things like this, a just king turning into a warmongering tyrant, is what a Conflict Guardian is supposed to manage. If so, that's a cool little detail that we first hear from the Nemesis when looking for a solution to Malek.
Conflict Guardian idea totally works--Malek was out to lunch, allowing conflict to spread unchecked because nupraptor-insane....... AND because Moe and Mort had demoted him into their whipping boy, so Moe could have just ordered Malek to let the Nemesis take over the world, like Moe needed to happen as part of his plan.
The villains of this series are such masterful tacticians.
"Fear" can make even the most kindest of people turn ugly. Imagine living in fear each and every day of your life knowing an event will come to pass, but when exactly it will is not answered. That would drive you into fear, then madness, then cold, and finally you become someone who was the complete opposite of who you once were. That was what Mobius did to William the Just.
I am so happy you're doing the legend of Kain videos I can't get enough of them thank you bro
Blood omen is the first game I purchased with my own money, I remember being so excited to play it. Many years later I still revisit as it remains a classic. Thank you for this video.
So William is "Bram Stoker's Dracula." This is why this game is so cool because it uses a lot of old school vampire references.
There hasn’t been a vampire game that satisfies in a long time. Legacy of Kain the original should be rebooted
Poor william indeed...is incredible how he is the beloved figure between the human folk and the impulse to get the most violent massacre across Nosgoth...but also the notion he is only the tool of the weaver and the match to provoque the storm againts all vampires...and how humanity is unkown of the truth and the crokked hidden manipulations from beyond...
In a Legacy full of twists and turns, this was the one that when as a kid playing for the first time, left my mouth completely agape. I couldn't believe I'd been manipulated like that by Moebius, and could not believe that video games were able to tell a story like this. The series went on to grander things in the SR series, but as you say, the ripples of this moment are felt throughout the rest of the millenia that the series covers. Amy's later weaving this into the SR games and Defiance was absolutely masterful. We'll never see the like of this in gaming again.
I really like your videos on LOK series. I remember i played Soul Reaver 2 when i was a kid, and because of not understaning english back then, i never understood what's going on in the game. Your videos explain everything with additional context, and that makes me wanna play entire series, and explore those games on my own. Thanks for that!
These games have possibly the best use of the English language I've seen in the video game medium.
Awesome i love these legacy of kain video's! Thanks for yet another outstanding video!🙂👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
It shows how good a manipulator Moebius is that he convinced Kain to kill William in the past so he wouldn't become The Nemesis in the future knowing that the humans would go after the vampires anyway for Kain's killing of a good man.
I want a remake of this series so badly :( thank you so SO much for continuing to show love to this world and these characters. This series was so formative in my younger years and I would absolutely love to be able to play it again and experience it in its true glory as an adult. We appreciate you!
Amazing video again. Thanks for making them. Cheers
I think Moebius turned William into a cruel tyrant by simply giving him the Soulreaver. Before the jump back in time we encounter a huge statue depicting William wielding a serpentine greatsword, i think that was the SR given to him by Norbius even in the iriginal timeline. Besides, the SR contains Raziel's soul, made insane by centuries of imprisonment, i think it's enough to drive to madness anyone who owns the sword for extended periods of time.
This has been the single greatest game I've ever played. There are rumors that it could make a comeback, as happy as that makes me, I prefer things remain as they are. If the original cast and developers are not involved with it, we run the risks of damaging this remarkable piece of work "LIKE THE HALO SERIES" after 343 studios took the helm of the series, the franchise lost its magic. Dennis Dyak and Daniel Cabuco need to be involved with the project as well as the cast, if possible. This is only my humble opinion, thanks for these amazing videos.
Simply Amazing. Your continuing coverage of Nosgoth Lore should not go down into the annals of obscure fantasy lore without inspiring the thousands of ears you touch.
If this humble, fellow, Nosgothian historian may make a suggestion for future topics? He may die happy.
Please, Grand Sire, cover the Corruption Nupraptor infected the circle of nine with. Also known as the Blood Curse which caused Kain’s legion’s of vampires to Devolve…or Evolve as they called it. Thank you…Kindly.
Thanks. I'm sure I'll cover that topic at some point 😀.
Another one smashed out the park, my friend. Keep it up, these are incredible.
Thank you 😀
I love Legacy of Kain, and I tune in to all of your videos. Thank you!
Is always a pleasure to spend my time hearing such a wonderful and deep analysis in the lore that I fell in love. I have questions that apparently you alone can answer. I've always wandered why Janos knows Raziel's name before hand.
My theory:
The Ancient Vampires had some access to Time Magic, given they created the Pillars which includes one for Time. Likely not enough to travel forwards and backwards, but probably enough to divine prophecies like those of the Champions. Perhaps they learned the name of the one chosen for the Reaver that way.
The end of Soul Reaver 1 is at a place where Mobius could view certain scenes of past and future, so Time Magic covers more that travel.
@@Watcher40K9 Perhaps! That's a very convincing theory! 👍
@@Watcher40K9 that makes a lot of sense, somehow in all these years I've never realized something so obvious, in that scene when Raziel meets Janos for the first time a part of me was always like "but for real how do you know him??"... they literally created the pillar of Time, such a simple but effective explanation.
This channel is out here doing the Lord's work
I loved this game when i was like 10 years old. I would even go so far to say, it had a
impact on my personality. In 6th grade, me and 4 friends made a puppet play about the story.
We narrowed it down a bit, and it was mainly focused around Mortanius and Kain.
I remember the Parents watching beeing really shocked. Still got it on tape, cause my
father recorded it. Poor quality though.
When Soul Reaver, and later Blood Omen 2 came out, it broke my heart. I know, some people love
that games, but i felt like they where something totally different. That feeling from Legacy of Kain was gone,
and i felt like they were messing with the world and the lore. To this day, im still waiting for a Legacy of Kain remake,
or a proper reboot.
I like to imagine that right after the events of Blood Omen2 and before the events of Soul Reaver. Kain goes into Vampiric Hibernation to undergo his evolutionary change. When he wakes up again he finds his cities are in ruin, and his kind nearing extinction once again finding out that during his torpor the descendent of William the Just gathers an army and kills nearly all of Voroador's surviving Vampire children. Allied with another Disciple of the Elder God and wielding Moebius's Staff and the Hylden's Glyph Magic. William the Just's descendent lays siege onto Nosgoth giving Kain the motivation to raise Raziel and his brothers for the purpose of building a new Vampire Legion that is strictly loyal to him.
Thank you for your great work! I am amazed of quality of your videos about LoK.
It may be overly simplistic, but all Mobius might have done was take a reaver from somewhere in time, then go to William and give him the reaver from that time while he carries the other one in a backpack or something and afterwards return the second reaver from whenever he took it. It might have been enough to just carry it around for a bit to alter the timeline.
I LOVE the voice clips from the original blood omen game! I believe there is a website to download multiple voice files, however I noticed that some files were missing or were just not uploaded yet...
Thanks for making this, LOK is the best video game series of all time, and underrated. Raziel is also a walking paradox because he is an INFJ.