Why Does This Soundproof Room Suck?
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- Опубліковано 3 гру 2021
- We Build a soundproof room for the CNC in the dream shop, and it doesn't really work. With the huge space we're trying to make sure we keep noise under control so we can keep working while Jordan is messing around on the CNC!
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#SoundproofRoom #DreamShop #CNCRoom - Навчання та стиль
Just an FYI from a professional audio engineer. For soundproofing, the rockwool insulation was a good step to take BUT it's not nearly enough by itself to soundproof that room, even with the door that you'll put on. Typically what we do when we build recording studios is we build a room inside of another room. Sound waves are able to travel indirectly through many of the materials that we use to build. That's called flanking noise. So the best way to truly make a room soundproof is by having a layer of dead air in the walls that acts as a "decoupler" from what's going on inside. I can especially foresee that concrete floor being a big culprit of flanking noise.
Not only that but the "density" of the materials they used. And a very distinct lack of baffling materials and materials that will bounce the sound back into the center of the room. Most of the room is plywood and 2x4s made from spruce or pine. Which are very consistently and historically terrible for anything related to sound.
I wonder if gymnastics type sprung floors or basketball court style isolators work best?
It's amazing how much two sets of double glazed windows with 6 inches of air in between will attenuate noise.
You alluded to it, but an air gap is an excellent method of reducing sound. I would also suspect that the room being sheathed in plywood would create more of an echo effect, therefore allowing more sound to escape out of the non-insulated sections of the room, where as couple layers of drywall would have deadened the sound more effectively
I have a party wall with all the goodies, decoupled, air gap etc. However fibreglass insulation is used rather than Rockwell. Think it’s worth it the fear the wall out and change it?
A little FYI, from someone who has been framing homes in Alberta, Canada for the past 10 years. Traditionally the 4x8 sheets of tongue and groove plywood run perpendicular to your framing members. So in the case of wall framing it would have been more beneficial to run the sheets horizontally. That way all the butt joints land on a stud, and the tongue and groove lock the sheeting together between the studs.
Still, you guys did an awesome job and that room looks amazing!! Keep up the great work!!
Real advice is always in the comments
Must be from Edmonton.
and same for the ceiling sheeting. i was cringing terribly when i saw that going up
@@timthompson7205 lmao I was like I didn’t write this? I have the same name just without the P in Thomson.
YES! Of course it is that simple! I was doing all kinds of stupid calculations in my head as I watched... and it never occured to me to just turn the 4x8 sheet. A bit more waste on a 6' wall but problem solved.
As a safety measure, I put pressure treated for the bottom plates going over concrete floors to prevent moisture from wicking up and rotting the plate.
Yea that’s a good call. We ordered materials and needed to build. Thought of that too late
Was my first thought as well
Yup! That's what is needed. White wood cannot touch concrete.
@@John_Maleckihow's it holding up? I figure that shops pretty dry
One thing I noticed is that you don’t have any jack studs under each end of the header for your door. Not sure how much it will matter since I don’t know the amount of weight it will have to handle. If you do decide to go back and put in jack, then your bottom plate needs to be redone as well and it looks like you’re already past the point of no return. Just something to keep in mind. Love your videos and can’t wait to see the new shop transformation
Ahhh, the late night, before bed binge of John and company...and now a new video?! Let's go!!
I hope you guys make videos for every single build step for your dream shop! SO FREAK'N COOL!
Love the vid. Just a tip from the Netherlands (the way we work over here) try to always cross your materials! So If your 2/4s are standing up your sheets should be laying horizontally and your if it’s what the job asks for it should be standing up this is the strongest way to build! And always stagger your tongue and groove sheets💪 great vid though!
Oh yea enjoying this late night drop!!!
"Don't you become a house cat on me... Stay hungry" is my new inspiration go to line.
Jordan, don’t worry about the 84”=7’
It’s called learning, your working with a couple of good guys there! That’s one thing I really like about this channel, not afraid to show your not perfect. “When you think you know everything you’ve actually lost the ability to learn”
Or you just use the superior metric system...
Don’t have much trouble ordering wood but when it comes to plumbing I’ve never made it a one trip job and probably got enough spare’s to plumb a house,gotta love it.
In a sawmill setting 16 ' are the most stable as they come from the bottom of the tree !
14-12-10-08 are from the top of the tree and are still twisting & cupping ! Cut your own studs.
Good stuff !
Never did a project without at least three trips to the HD or HF. Glad I am not the only one!
Should have laid the plywood horizontally, and staggered, It makes the wall stronger.
Would have alleviated the issue with scant faced plywood also.
While this is not a sound proof room, it's not like it's not going to help cut down on the noise from the CNC. Once you get the doors on, it may just be good enough.
The biggest problem you're likely to have is that the plywood may transfer the sound out of the room (think of a drum)... You could probably add some mass loaded vinyl to the inside walls as a easy fix. Not sure what's on the other side of that wall you attached the framing to, but now it's now coupled to the CNC room and sound will transfer no matter what, unless you de-couple it (which means tearing it down and rebuilding.
If you did decide to refactor the whole thing, assuming you have the space to sacrifice, consider re-building it as room inside a room. Basically one set of walls and then another set of walls with an (as large as you can manage) air gab between them. Don't attach any of the walls to any structure (except the floor), the entire thing should be freestanding/self-supporting. You could also consider filling the walls with sand, you'd probably only need to do that to the inner wall, rockwool would be fine on the outer walls. I suspect that drywall would be better than plywood for actual sound proofing, but if you have the air-gapped wall, plywood is probably ok. If you're just using rockwool though, don't sheet the opposing faces (the air-gapped sides) of the walls, just the outside. You'd also need two sets of doors, one for each "room" and they'd need to be well sealed to not allow air to escape (if air can get in/out so can sound). And if you go this far, the room will need supplementary ventilation. There are considerations for that as well (ducts would couple the room to the rest of the structure) but in this case, running ducting to the room is probably OK.
Again, what you did is probably good enough. It's a shop after all if you're not running the CNC constantly, what you've done will probably work good for when it is.
Thort the same, I once made an awesome sound proof room with no insulation. Used 27mm MDF cover plates I got cheap and foam carpet underlay in between those and the wall frame. The foam stop vibration and the rubberish layer created an airtight membrane, worked awesome, also had double doors tho as well.
Glad to see that Miss Piggy has made the transition to her new pig pen!!!! Hey, you can name that room the pig pen!!!! I'll let you take the credit for naming her room. Good work guys, no Dammit Jordan's!!!!
16" on center would leave a 14.5" gap between the studs, did you space them with 16" gaps?
To me it looks like they did 16” between each stud not 16” on center
Exactly what I thought when watching it.
You said it before I did. I was thinking maybe he just messed up his explanation, but once I saw the sheet up, I’m going to have to agree with you.
came here to bring this up lol. when pulling 16" centers starting at the end of a wall they need to fall back 3/4" every 16". looks like they missed that part lol
If that was the case, the insulation wouldn't fit.
2:23 was a great lil moment. Jordan's tired ass being like "I don't wanna be on camera right now" john recognizing that and just laughing to himself.
I love the tape on the floor. Reminds me of the old WKRP in Cincinnati tv show and Les Nessman tape on the floor for his office
Great stuff! Can't wait for you guys to get the shop fully operational and do more awesome projects!
Come and see the SEE AND SEE machine. Your new workshop is taking a really nice shape my friends. Looking forward to see more videos on you guys building out the establishment.
Keep up the good work guys
The sheets on the ceiling was put on the wrong way, they should go long ways across the joists. Lol
Very nice job. This turned out very well there. Hopefully you guys are getting great use of it. Can't wait to see more videos boys. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friends. Keep making. Stay squirrely. God bless.
Awesome job. Love the new shop
2:18 Jordan making the point for the metric system.
Should have put the sheets perpendicular to the studs and ceiling joists. Pressure treated bottom plate.
Congratulations on the new location John and crew -- it looks like it should have plenty of room to grow! I was just in Pittsburgh over the weekend but unfortunately I didn't notice the shop off to the side of the road on my travels! ;-) I did get in a stop at Rockler though!
Watching and loving every one of these dream shop vids! Keep it up!
That room looks awesome!!
hello john, I live in southern Brazil, I watch your videos and hear about the construction techniques used in America and above all, I have a lot of fun!!!! a hug!
Very nice! I would love to work in that shop! And I have learned the hard way to always buy a couple extra boards for any job...lol
Hell of a nice shop !!
Been There! And the second trip is always longer than you expect!
Love it guys! Great work!
Idk if someone or 100 people have commented already, but subfloor sheeting is typically slightly smaller than 4x8 because the manufacturers call for a 1/8" gap between sheets to accommodate for movement.
One more recommendation, if I may be so bold: Cilica from concrete is crazy bad to breathe. Over time, too much exposure can cause Cilicosis, which is on my top 5 worst ways to die. Milwaukee had a FANTASTIC cordless hammer drill with an attachable HEPA vac which does a great job extracting the dust.
Can't wait for the new course!!! Just started my own woodworking business. I love it and want to make it my career. I'm ok on the woodworking side, terrible on the business side. I'll take all the help I can get 🙃😋😛😁
Pretty interesting process indeed! 😃
Fantastic work, guys!!!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Home renovations, I plan out an entire project, get all the supplies, and end up making multiple runs to Lowes, Home Depot and whoever else has what I suddenly fine that I need during the week(end) project. Redoing an alcove tub/shower surround in subway tile. Measured 3 times, added 10-15% "just to be sure I didn't come up short on materials" ... back to store for one more piece of hardi-backer. I can't win. Love the first room, looking forward to more squirrelly goodness.
I like how yall measured and put the heights on the 2x4 before covering it up. I wish I had the ability to just build whatever I wanted. (Not for lack of skill)
Congrats on 600k guys. Deserve it all and more
Yep, have been there and did that too many times with framing projects. If I don't have to run for more or the correct lumber, something is not right 😅
Love your videos. Also glad to see Steve from Blue's Clues still doing educational media.
hahahah
That echo will come back when you sheet the inside.. You could have saved money using fiberglass which has the same STC.. Also add 5/8" type x drywall over the plywood if you don't feel like it reduced the noise enough...
At the end of the video you already hear it return.
They could do since sort of acoustical ceiling cloud
Anytime I don't know how to do something, I just watch a UA-cam video lol!!
That makes two of us Josh
As someone who has done a little diy framing I always order 4x2 bigger than what I need and cut back and use offcuts as noggins
HELLL YEAH BRUTHUERS, looks like fun. Exactly the same problems I run into at home doing my own projects lol. Glad I'm not the only one.
Far from the only one bud!
Congrats on 600k!
Cried laughing at that math mishap joke
3/4" for walls!? Good thing the lumber yard is a sponsor!
Shop is looking good!!!! You guys should build a vacuum table on big Bertha.
You can also take off the forklift “guard”on the back of the forks. You can lift higher, and clear the same spaces. At work they’re all off because in order to get sheet metal off our racks the guard would hit the ceiling lights
So cool, I love you guys so much your uploads are always amazing keep it up thanks!
Another cool vid boys!! I absolutely enjoy how you show your mistakes... makes the vid so much more relatable. I don't know much but I would have ran the plywood horizontally and staggered, much like drywall installation (nothing vertical;) and the tongue/groove would lock it in better. But fantastic work and I have to say John... I'm a little jelly of the new workshop... crap... a lot jelly, lol. Keep CRUSHING it!
I like when John punches Jordan. The best work environments include physical intimidation 😂😂 Love you guys.
i like how you guys make me feel more professional
Yup. Been there. Actually there right now with the 2x4 conundrum
Leonardo, turtle forklift, will come in handy to feed Miss Piggy. You could call him Kermit too, but Kermi doesn’t has Swords.
I think you should use pressure treated 2x4 when in contact with concrete
Yes you for sure should
Great videos by the way love watching you guys.
its good that i sub on this channel. saw the down and up on woodworking and process of getting new place. try the forklift if it goes in.
Guys another great video!
John FYI-I myself always determine the success of a job by how many times I have to go back-and-forth to the big box store🤷🏼♂️
I just screwed up with tongue and groove subfloor yesterday. I tore out the old subfloor to repair some plumbing so it's at least 20 yr old t&g. I cut the tongue part off since it gave me a clean line to follow on top of the runner. I cut my piece length leaving the sheet width whole thinking it was 48in and there was a huge gap on both sides! So t&g was originally 48in plus tongue and our crap now is barely 47 with the tongue!
This should be a TV show.
Lookin good gents! It’s gettin there
Nice build! roof with rock wool and drywall would have helped on the noise as well - 3/4" Plywood will just make the sound bounce around and is crazy expensive. If you wanted more isolation, could build with 2x6 framing for more depth for more rock wool.
I built a shed last year, ordered about 20 extra 2x4s... Turns out the maths is hard and I needed about 35 more... then I had to drive a whole 1.5 miles to the lumber yard to get more.
Lol always running back to the lumber yard!!
You guys crack me up. As an ex framer this was a lot of fun to watch. You can still make the room better. I have also done sound proofing where I used 5/8 drywall, z channel and a few other options. The plywood will reflect sound and while it will help you can do it better. Sound loses energy everytime it has to transfer materials when it travels. Still great work.
YEa we just hate drywall mud! and wanted to be able to mount to the walls, so we figured it was a good compromise. Great input Michael thank you!
I would recommend some foam sound barrier on the inside wall
@@pmapaez kinda like (in the shape of) egg cartons however the dust would build up I’m sure because it’s not a smooth surface which was why I never suggested it. But yes it would a great improvement.
It’s hilarious how many framing sins were committed in this course of this video. Floating headers and no GRKs or nails… screws suck at shear
@@s0berlin we could do a video on the sins alone.
Lets goooooo, been waiting on another vid of the next workshop
I have always ordered exactly the right amount of the exact correct material /s
Make sure you put a couple of strongbacks across the top of the joists to prevent the ceiling from sagging.
should have stacked the sheets from floor to ceiling instead of standing them up
👍👍👍👍👍👍getting there
This guys aré awesome . I love your videos
Love the truck. Dying to know what bed cover and rack system you have on that bad boy....
gotta add more mass to the walls and caulk the perimeters. Also you gotta get the doors in. bons tip is to add absorption panels to the inside of the booth so that sounds is not as annoying and reverberant as it is now
I've been into Menards so many times during a Saturday project I started selecting different cashier's so that I would be less embarrassed haha
When doing 16 in on center your sheeting goes down horizontal and that’s why you usually put the sheeting up when the wall is still on the ground.
Err...... John...... you do know that you will still be able to hear Miss Piggy even once the doors are on? It's going to be more like sound dampening then total sound proof. If you want to get "totally" sound proof you will need to have something soft on the inside walls instead of ply wood. A trick I've used in the past was to make a frame, fill with insulation (basically a wall so far), but cover it with fabric instead of wood. We were using this for a PA setup for a live band to try to cancel out the huge echo we had going on in the hall we were using. When we turned sideways and had one ear towards the wall it felt like we had gone deaf in that ear!!!! Really freaky but effective 👍👍👍👍
I know you previously stated that you hated drywall work in a comment on here, but quiet rock on both sides of the walls, and the ceiling will bring down that noise a lot. You can still mount things through it to the 3/4" plywood. Just make sure there are no gaps or holes for the room and door, and it'll be as best as possible. They also make vinyl mat you can line the walls and ceiling with. Jeff from home renovision has a good video detailing this.
When you layout your studs you want to hook your tape and measure 15 1/4 and then put your x if you go straight 16 your stud will be on the edge or not covering the plywood.
i died a little bit on the inside when you proved some woodworkers are not carpenters LOL
Quick tip: Use acoustical caulk at the joints (wall to slab and wall to ceiling). This will help the sound from escaping when running the CNC. 3M makes a good product
16" on center doesn't mean there's a 16" gap between studs. It's 16" from the center of one stud to the center of the next. The gap between studs should be 14.5"
I saw that too. I normally mark at 15 1/4 or 16 3/4 with an x on the stud side. I'm not a framer though
LOL! with that said I enjoy this channel and your carpentry skills are outstanding. Maybe hangout with a framer get some layout tips, and the tongue and grove would've hit layout if you put the 8' perpendicular to the studs. great video keep'm coming!
Ben Crowe of Crimson Guitars has a phrase: "Measure, measure, cut, cry." Yep. Been there done that. Multiple trips to the lumber yard on one day...
There is so much freedom in this channel hahahaha.
Every home improvement project you DIY (unless you do it professionally or have lots of experience) goes this way. Even if you measure carefully and get 10% extra, there's always something you have to go back to the orange or blue store for, return/exchange, get more etc.
John: "have you been there?" Me: "I Don't want to talk about it..."
I won a shirt from you guys on your black Friday giveaway but I missed where I was supposed to email my info to absolutely love your videos keep up the great work
Let us get a tour of your truck my dude. Saw that platinum logo. UA-cam been kind to you.
Awesome builds! Quick question, is there are reason to use screws over nails for the framing?
They want the door header to slowly fail..
@@s0berlin nails are the preferred choice for framing, correct?
@@Justforfun-ek7et Typically, nails and screws both handle how forces move through them differently. But if you ever see structural drawings nails and nailing patterns are almost always called up. "Screws" are generic terms where GRK fastners, nails and bolts all have an associated grading process. I mean screws that are not taking the forces in a shearing direction would be ok, but as most people know snapping a screw and snapping a nail that is holding framing together require totally different levels of effort.
When I am asked how long it will take me to do something I figure it out in my head for the labor and double it for trips to the store and looking for tools that I sat down or are in the wrong pocket.
Don't you need to use PT studs for direct concrete contact due to moisture wicking?
Yes for the sill plate, not the studs though.
John: please practice forklift safety- before you dismount, forks down on the ground and pointed downwards so that they aren’t a trip hazard or walk into hazard. :) forklift training can maybe be skipped, but also note the offset center of balance when load less. Source: I’ve flipped one ;)
Lmao
Turn around when you get off and remember to put it in neutral and put the e brake on
Also keep the forks about 6 inches off the ground and pointed slightly down while driving. And turn around when you get off, get off like a ladder.
I’ve been driving forklifts for over a decade. I lied about my certification when I started out. Didn’t know a thing about driving lifts. I never flipped one or came close. You are definitely trying hard to flip one if you flipped one.
@@Daddy_Potaytoe just telling it like it is. I was going too fast load less (busy warehouse, I was new, young, and stupid) and took a corner too fast. Side came up and I leaned the wrong way.
I thought you guys turned off most of your shop lights to show the new lights is miss piggys room lol.
so you got the rockwool from 84 lumber?
The tongue and groove give the plywood strength when spanning across the joists. Subfloor plywood runs perpendicular/90° to the floor joists.
Typically when framing walls, put the crown up, or you'll be fighting the crown against the floor to flush it up with the plates.
And headers should be at least 3" longer then the rough opening. The header should sit on jack studs, to transfer the weight to the floor, otherwise you're relying on the sheer strength of the screws/nails.
An opening that big should have at least 2 jacks on each side. But it's not load bearing, but it is carrying the weight of the ceiling.
Run the plywood horizontal. 16 center with factory edges. Damn.
Why didn’t you bone heads sheet the top side of the framing for the ceiling?
When you use 3/4 tongue and groove plywood it is not 48X96 inches. You loose about 3/4 of an inch in width when the cut the tongue and groove into it giving you a sheet that will cover 47 1/4 inches by 96 inches. Lay your sheets down to solve your problem.
We realized this while watching the edit hahaha figures right ?!? Thank
You my friend
"Terrorist that's who!" totally lost it about 3 mins into the video lmfao...
T and G plywood should be turned 90 degrees so the ends of the sheets land centered on the studs. Love your builds though!
Yep, we figured that out when watching the edit hahahah