Patron Gods in Norse Paganism: What the Sources Say!
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
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How to choose a patron god? Deciding on a patron deity? Knowing if a your patron god is contacting you? These are a few of the very popular questions seen online in various Norse groups that have no basis in historically accurate pre-Christian Scandinavian religion. This goes over what some of the actual ancient sources say about a similar concept so beginners are not misguided.
"How do I know if my patron god is trying to contact me"
You will randomly find a large runestone in your mailbox.
it will seem funny or stupid to you. when I was walking home with a friend, on my road (which is paved with gravel) I was hit in the leg with a stone that has a "rune" that looks like raidho in elder futhark. I still have it, and I keep asking myself why it hit me and hurt my damn ankle🤣🤣🤣
@@mihaialexandrumoldovan1659 dickpics or didn't happen!
Complex topic. Certain people and places definitely 'belonged' to a certain deity. Pythia, the oracle of Delphi, was appointed to Apollon. The warrior class of Norse society was appointed to Tyr, Odense means 'Odin's ve' i.e. Odin's holy place. Thor's hammers are overrepresented in Skåne and Denmark. But that all seems to have been on an institutional level. And tbh also 'fashion'. In general I don't think people in their everyday life belonged to ONE deity like in Christianity. That would be like wanting to win Champion's league in football, but your team only consists of a goalie. Pagans are opportunists. They're like 'Ok, we've got a ghost here. Who you gonna call? GHOSTBUSTERS!'
brilliant
Patron Gods are big in Wicca and eclectic practices. The idea stems from patron Gods of Greek City-States. I think the practice had some validity in the Greco-Roman practices, but not much anywhere else. Yet because Wicca borrowed heavily from Greek concepts and blended it with British witchcraft, and most people are introduced to Paganism through Wicca, now most people think this was the norm for all Pre-Christian European societies.
Exactly this, especially for younger people in American Asatru. There's also American Odinism, which was big in the 1970s-80s and basically just monotheism with Odin - and extremely racist, which came from Rud Mills & Else Christensen and folded into McNallen's and Murray's Asatru groups.
@@johnd5574 yeah true. Odin is a significant figure but he isn’t a monotheistic deity. People should be respectful, but you don’t need to just pray to him.
@@logenvestfold4143 I completely agree. Christensen's Odinism was really bizarre, but unfortunately had a big impact on American Asatru.
Thank you. I was wondering
@@norsemagicandbeliefs8134 you’re welcome. Priests and priestesses usually dedicated themselves to a particular God or Goddess as well but most people just venerated all the Gods their community recognized.
The one thing I have discovered as a former strict Abrahamic monotheist, is that “Odin brings you in..”
When wyrd put myself in other Heathen’s paths and myself in their’s, people who had been Heathen long before myself. I would tell them “Odin brought me to Heathenism!” And they ALL replied; “Odin brings everyone in.” This came from Heathens that knew nothing of each other. So I found this pretty profound myself.. Yet, him being a “Patron god” of mine never made much sense. “Invoking” this Wotanaz entity became a contract after while, it began as “Oow” and “Ahh” with this essence and turned into; “I have given you enough, what can you give me?” And I won’t lie, that kind of frightened me. So I put Wotanaz on the back burner.
When I look in the mirror, I see the image of Thor. “Flaming red hair and beard, intense eyes, loves humans, sacred oath keeper, enjoys combat and violence, loves to drink, loves to show strength feats, prone to angry out bursts..” Yes all me lol. So if any deity is closest to my “Patron” it would be Thurisaz.
With that being said; I follow and believe more heavily in your sourced analysis that the gods are aspects of nature. Primal wild sources of unknown energy that are situational to invoke, at best. I think all of us can see our image in these individual gods, yet we must remember who and what they truly are.
As Above Is So Below. The Earth has consciousness, her son the storm has consciousness, and so her weaker children us the animals of her bosom also have consciousness. Without her, nothing in OUR 3rd dimension has life or consciousness.
The universal life force, may be Heimdalr as you and sources have implied, is the force holding her and all of us together. While Loki is the unknown force connected to adaptation and evolution. Hence, why he “bangs Sif when Thor isn’t around.”
Knowing all of this gives me greater assurance than the new age thought process of Demi-god beings influenced by Christian doctrine.
Im not disagreeing with you, but your beliefs do not match mine, and of course that is ok, better than ok, its wonderful how we each differ
Odin did not bring me in, if anything he kept me away, for years after i declared myself to be a pagan, i blatantly refused to try to speak with him or make any contact with him
I am still very suspicious of him, and suspicious of anyone who calls him "Alfather", because to me that reeks of christianity
To me he is a wanderer and vagabond and not the king or chief of the gods
While i wanted to reject him as a "king" i equally wanted to embrace him as a "sage" and wisdom seeker
Of course thats all stories and myths anyway so it matters not one bit who was, or was not the chief because those are stories, metaphors and not real
Thor and Sfi have always jumped to mind when i think of the gods, for me they are the primal forces of life and nature, and i have always felt a strong connection to them
Curiously i never see Thors hair as red, despite many insisting it is, and of course the sources paint it thus, but for me it never was (but since the gods are forces of energy given form by us, it is likely we dont all see them as the same form)
I have felt similar, though not as strong connections to Freya and Frey (stronger than to other gods, but not as strong as to Thor and Sif)
I always get a warm feeling when i think of Heimdall, whenever i think of him i feel he is smiling warmly at me, frustratingly i have not gotten further connection than that
Again let me say, im not suggesting this is "right" or how everyone should see them, but it is how "I" see/feel them
I rarely bother any of them with prayers or such, i attempt contact with other invisible forces first and foremost, those local to me
Im curious your mention of "As above, so below", which is of course Hellenistic, from the emerald tablet of Hermes
There is of course nothing wrong with having or seeking favours of gods from elsewhere, in fact i encourage it, but it felt odd you mentioned it as if it is related to "nothern european" belief systems
I have made brief delves int Hellenic and Hindu, but never felt much of a connection there myself, however - and this is really not the same thing - but i do observe certain worldviews that might be considered to be Buddhist or Taoist (except i cannot stand vegetables, so not the dietry aspects), i feel i learned a lot from Laozi (Lao Tzu), so believe me when i say i feel there is nothing wrong with spiritual solace and enlightenment where ever you find it, as long as its right for you
All of which is a very long way of saying - *Thank you* for sharing your beliefs, i found them interesting, here are mine :)
@@isty4491 I was 14 years old, normal argumentative teenager .. I was skating around Odin and just spent close to a couple of years focusing on the element nature of what Odin is said to represent. He showed up and chewed my backside and lectured me hard. I learn a whole new meaning to .. fear .. that day. And then I got .. mouth ... So sorry, when you are having an over active imagination that went into strait full blow hallucination , no mount of logic well save you/ me at that time in my life. When it turns out you are seeing you grand mother's .. imaginary friend/ angel .. she prays to, then you know you have problems.
Then Odin show up again went I was 15 years old and I was no trying to preform any rituals at that time, I was just arguing with my grand father.
“How do I contact my patron god?”
Eat more mushrooms.
Wicked funny...
This is a breath of fresh air. I hear this stuff a lot from newcomers and it just confuses me. I have a long list of traditions and Gods thst I'm trying to learn about, and I give as much respect to as many of them as I can. When newcomers, usually young ones, ask advice on choosing a patron God, the idea just baffles me. I never heard the concept outside of chatrooms.
Patron must be a new term in the pass few years. Patron wasn't used in my area back in the 1990's. Although when DC comics rebooted their comics into DC52, Wonder Woman regarded the Greek Gods as being her .. Patrons.
Back in the 1990's when I was being , .. well .. what ever someone wants to call it, others in my area just called them " their chosen deities," or The Ones that Answered Back.
The pagans in my area didn't like using the word .. god .. cause of the Christians.
@@krispalermo8133 I'm okay with the idea of a patron God sometimes. Like, my ancestors have a local God called Aibel. Her holy site is on a hill just outside my hometown. So she's a patron God. But she's a patron God because she is directly attached to my home and people, not because I chose her. I groan when I see people "choose" a God as if they're picking a character in Mortal Kombat. I'm okay with the word "God". I think we should claim the word back. It just means a divine spirit. Originally, the Christian God Jehova was one of many Gods in Canaan. But the cult of Yahweh(Jehova) took over and denounced the other Gods. Yahweh wasn't even the original God. His father El was. Son of El, just like Superman, lol.
@@ansionnachbeagrioga5260 King Arthur the Pendragon/ wyrm serpent in a pentagon/ (walled pentagram.)
Kundalini serpent in a pentagram. Sigil of the house of EL.
Superman symbol used in Chaos Magik along with the Green Lantern Ring.
Uh, just stay away from .. Shazam. The six ancient Egyptian gods that gave Black Adam his powers that was later reworked with other legendary people can be a bit cruel in what knowledge they will give you.
As for remotely trying to contact science fiction Kryptoians/ astral beings, they are more stiff neck than Star Trek Vulcans.
There are a few videos out there on how the " science " fantasy of Superman pushed human scientific development over the years. Just taking the way his rocket ship crib works, and the theories of Faster than Light Drive functions. For a small rocket to drag tons of surface rock light years with it/ behind it would mean some form of gravity wrapping field or worm hole generator.
Or how Tibetan monks meditate in cold climate mountains with thin air.
The only animal that creates its own .. energy .. attack is an electric eel. And Superman's heat vision is said to be a byproduct of his infra red night vision, so what type of cold weather environment with consent thunder storms would evolved a humanoid like that. And the scary thing is red stars from dwarf to giant are far more common than our own star type. So what is out there ?
Well, I have heard over the years of stories of dark astral beings that feed off of mass death cause by pride/anger where their totem is the crow/ raven. As soon a copper/ bronze age city state gets large enough to do something stupid, they follow the ripple through space/ time to their newest feeding ground. Or did humans just make up stories of gods/ demon of pride and war to explain their own fail defeats on the battle field ? A battle so ill fated both side fail into defeat and both city states shortly conquered afterwards. -- myths of early bronze age middle east.
As Loki would say, " How is my creative writing ?"
The concept of patrons gods is based on Greco-Roman, and to a slightly lesser extent Egyptian practices. You see association with certain gods through professions as well, but it's primarily due to localization of temples dedicated to a particular deity.
The role of patron gods in the Western Occult Tradition is a bastardization of this classical context with Catholic Saints as you had mentioned. However, the whole system of Saints is a syncretism of pagan beliefs in itself, attempting to preserve a specialized pantheon of sorts, which adherents could appeal to depending on their specific need.
The Romans had a type of household god / spirit, called Lares. I believe this would be more in line with what you were referring to in regards to blots, and dealing with lesser entities.
I'd say the somewhat brazen attitude concerning patron gods is largely attributed to magicians though. We have a tendency to view things as tools and resources (especially Chaoists), as a result of taking a practical approach to magic. This emerges in our use of language, but I think the actual relationship is misinterpreted - mainly by New-Agers who are just taking things at face value. A more accurate description would be to say that one serves a particular god - maintaining the required degree of respect.
*For example, in the Greek Magical Papyrus iirc, there is a formal ritual for obtaining a Paredros. This is usually translated as a "helper god", but it would be more appropriate to say you become the adopted child of that god - thus, they would watch over you as a parent would.
Modern magicians also utilize lesser spirits (depending on what theory you subscribe to) in order to accomplish basic tasks. To inexperienced individuals who are, more or less "dabbling", there is likely a conflation between the two concepts. Over time the misunderstanding has been further perpetuated, to the point it has become standardized.
Nicely written, thank you for posting.
Hope you have a good up coming weekend, and G*D bless.
Patron deities exist in some form in most pagan belief systems. Most obviously in Greek and roman traditions. Your patron/matron is just the god or goddess that has most influence in your livelihood. A midwife may pray more often to Sif. A seamstress may pray to Freya. The Viking man would obviously focus on Tyr and Odin, and all people favoured Thor for his protection. There are towns and cities across Europe dedicated to individual gods, in which the people may have made special dedication to that god.
I'm sure one of the most enduring idea in western occultism is the idea of personal daimon/daemon. It came from Hellenic sources, but mostly took root in Neoplatonism and later Hermeticism via Iamblichus and similar types. And it kinda mixed with local pagan intuition of certain spirit ruling certain space, like house familiars or as we Slavs say "domovnik" or similar spirits dedicated to single function etc. Also later new age spirituality along with western occult ideas in neo-hermeticism certainly influenced the way most people think about this stuff.
I remember the idea of Patron Gods promoted heavily in the late 90s by a website called Spirit Online which was a strange occult portal with huge emphesis on wicca. I don't know if they originated the idea, but they were pushing it hard. Back then there were not too many websites about paganism, so it may jave been a modern hub for this idea.
Thank you. I was wondering.
Also, I think Greek polytheism had patron deities. I could very well be very wrong though, I don't really know a whole lot about the Greeks.
@@fortheeinherjar916 Yes, I was certainly under the impression that the Greeks had patron deities too (though I didn’t think that about the Norse…).
It was much more common for places to have a patron God, particularly Greek city-states where it was nearly a given. But also cities in China, and Babylon claimed Marduk as their patron god. A number of heroes in the Greek myths were considered to have patron gods, whether or not they claimed it themselves; some even took it to the point of not respecting other gods and desecrating their temples. I've always considered Sigmund to have Odin as his patron. Despite the ending.
Been norse pagan for going on 5 years and never stop learning and haven't heard if a Parton God until just recently on a UA-cam thumbnail of all things.. naturally I hit it and so .any things come up. Thanks for the vid man. Skal
"I don't know where you guys got all this load of shit." OK FINE! I'll subscribe! Love the straight talk!
omg YEEESSS I absolutely love this video! I completely agree! The concept of Patron is more associated with Catholicism as Patron Saints. Hearing people say that they have a Patreon God is so weird especially when the god they mention is a part of a religion or faith that believes in multiple gods. To devote to just one knowing that is quite strange.
You mentioned the endless supply of new pagans. It does seem like relatively few actually stick around for a while. I think you kind of have to be a nerd and an information sponge to make it in heathenry.
Indeed, the only person I know that has stuck with it and isn’t a scholar by heart is a guy that was born into it.
I have been an animist all my life. But i acknowledged my Pagan belief when i was 16. I am 48 now. That's well over 30 yrs and in that time i have seen thousands come and go. In my experience, 3/4's of people who claim to be Pagan today will not be so in 5 yrs. Sadly.
@@frekitheravenous516 Fascinating. I think it's a novelty or a fun phase for some people, the same way being into astrology or witchcraft is for a lot of folks, before they "settle down" or "find themselves." I don't try to gatekeep but I believe a pagan will stick around if they are A) very well read or B) been in a path for around 10 years or more
I love the straight talk in all your videos. The "how do I know my Patron God wants to contact me" part made me laugh. xD
Fun fact: not every norse people was "Viking" (in fact most old norse people would feel offended by being called a Vikingr) and not every norse people was religious. Most people were just regular folk doing their thing, atheism was very common too and "the norse" were known to be very open and tolerant when it came to different believes. The more religious ones may have smiled on you or made some jokes but nobody was outcast for not believing in the gods or even for practicing some other believes and nobody was forced in a believe system.
They valued men and women by their deeds and the way they carried themselfes rather than their believes and religions. (unlike the barbaric modern times we live in today)
Yeah a newly found out big part of the norse faith is actually believing that all gods in all faiths actually exist but only hold dominion in their respected lands. So many norse who were quoted/recorded as 'becoming catholic' actually were just adding Abrahamic god to their list of deities to call on. I mean if you make friends with the gods of the places you fight in, then you will have them on your side in battle
As a Christian with gnostic tendencies I Love your channel. The truth lies somewhere between our egos and practices.
Lol I’m very glad you made this, Cause I was thinking about this today and I agree 100%
Absolutely love your channel! Your down to earth and matter of fact style is a welcome change from a lot of the other "fluff" out there. Keep up the great work!
i found something that could be of interest a while ago but had nowhere to share it until now. i offer this piece of info from rudolf keyser's "religion of the northmen" p. 169 that states king vikarr seems to have been "consecrated" or "given" to odin at birth.
it´s kind of the same in uralics.. witches
definately have their own unique path, that often
includes a patron spirit, but even with them
it´s much more complicated because there´s all kinds
of helper spirits and animal spirits.. also
the patron spirit themselves is a complicated
concept, either a local (often totemic) deity
or a sort of re-incarnating witch soul.. it could
never be mistaken for any form of monotheism..
for the "regular folks" it´s more like keeping
the different spirits happy.. i guess it depends
how close you are with a particular spirit.. for
something like fishing or hunting it would be enough
to give an offering once or twice a year.. on
the other hand you might have a closer relationship
with an ancestral spirit that actually visited you
regularly or slept in you hut or something.. or
you might be close to the spirit of the fire or
the spirit of the water.. those kinds of relationships
can become very inclusive, just like real human
relationships..
so i´d say yes, (for us) it can be either, or both
(one more important, many others), depending
on the situation.. it´s always more complicated
because human life is such a long process..
there´s the spirits you may inherit (like the
sami have the kaddz-spirits), spirits you may find
yourself, spirits that may find you.. like i myself
follow the sun but i´ve never been contacted
directly by her.. it´s ok, i´m just a guy and
she´s a star you know.
Very interesting. Thank you. Yes I think the Norse had much more similarities to the Uralic beliefs than anything else really
i would lik to thank you for your informative comment. I have read somewhere once that finns were the best at sorcery! can i ask your thoughts on these questions: would a person only need to make a claim that theyve been chosen by a spirit in order to have true insights from it? what signs would be considered true/honest is there a process for authenticity?
@@YamiPoyo Absolutely. I have a perfect video answering that. This is the scandinavian magic tradition. I am not sure if the Finnish is the same.
ua-cam.com/video/1wVG79haAeQ/v-deo.html
there´s a lot of info on uralic witches / shamans
in the interwebs, there´s even a full model how they
trained in seven year cycles.. maybe use search words
like sami, nganasan, selkup, nenets, khanty.. you know
it´s the northernmost peoples that have the best info,
because they got to live the longest without being
bothered.
finnish and estonian are the most "corrupted" by
western (mainstream) influence even if there might
be more active witches nowadays.
if you put words like selkup mythology you might get a
whole book.. like we all know the best results are
at the end of a google search, at least for whole
books :)
i have to add that it´s very different to
IE peoples.. you should only read it as
in how this compares to mine.. like that´s
how i listen to norse stuff, how this
compares to my tradition..
also finns definately not the best witches..
we work hard all year to be the second best
(cultural joke).
"dedicated his horse"- well...that was a good way to keep someone from stealing your horse.
My grandma moved from Norway to u.s when she was about 25 years old and she has stories that have been pasted down from the Viking age from around the mid 800s and they were farmers/raiders in the Trondheim area (where my ancestors are from) I know in there case my grandparents and me like to pray to some deity’s by season for example me and my grandpa and dad always like to make a offering to skaldi and ullr for a favorable and successful hunt or a good winter and I’m proud to say that I have family on both sides of the pond considering I’m half Irish and half Norwegian my moms family settled in Ireland after Olaf Tryggvason came to power
I think for a lot of Americans who are usually familiar with some native American faiths the idea of a "patron god" might be influenced by the idea of spirit animals which you get a specific spirit guide throughout life you can sort of pray to? I'm not too knowledgeable on it but I know some Americans liken it to that. May not be the cause but could be a contributing factor
And each Greek god along with Jewish/ Christian angel was tied to a given animal. So gods/ angels rose from totem animal guides.
The Gods all had different areas of life that were important to them, thus a northman or woman might chose a particular God to pray to for intercession in that matter. They might go to a priest who specialised in worshipping that particular deity or even go to a particular shrine dedicated to that God or Goddess. But it would rarely lead to a lifetime's devotion. The next problem requiring divine assistance might be better dealt with by another deity.
Without wishing to profane belief it could be thought of like needing medical help. A smallish illness can be treated by one's regular doctor. Something more serious, however, needs the attention of a specialist in that particular field. But even if the heart specialist cured a heart problem and you are grateful for that, you don't go to them with a neurological issue or a gastric problem.
This is so cool!!!! I'm hella loving your channel and the cool insight on stuff about this as outside of Abrahamic influenced shenanigans as you can get!
I love your channel the shock that most people get is priceless
I myself at the very beginning of coming into this heathenry thought that, quite ignorant of most of these things at the time, I might ask this to perhaps Oden? Anyways so I asked my question which was if I will find a woman some day? My feeling however was that a woman answered my question. I then thought to myself of course! What an idiot I am. Of course it must be Freja and not Oden. The answer was also quite interesting. The sentence "She is far away" just sort of materialised in my mind and it just felt right. I interpreted it as actual physical distance at first but then some time later I realized that it could also be interpreted as me not being quite ready yet, or perhaps both at the same time of course. Then I thought that keeping Freja close in worship might be wise. I had been very lonely and shy all my life but now after some three years later I can at least contact women and hold some sort of conversation at least. I also fell in love one time and actually had the guts to acknowledge my feelings to first myself, then reveal it to her and when she was not into me I took it well enough. Even though I was sad about it I could talk to my friends about these things for the first time. It helped. I have much to thank her for and I think I'm on my way there!
It makes me think how very fortunate I am that this happened at all.
However at times I have had the feeling that this god or gods are toying around with me and must be laughing. I then laugh with them in all good fun!
In Alexanderian and Gardrnarian Wicca, covens would have a pairing of Male and Female deities, Frigg and Wodan, for example. This is where I think, in the neo-pagan movement, we see selections of specific deities out of many, involving the norse pantheons. Also, patron deities are coming for many faiths, pagan or otherwise... However, I have never actually read anything denoting patronage in the norse paths. It never occured to me that patronage might not apply the same.
Thank you!
Thank you, this needed to be said.
Immidiately makes me think of dungeons and dragons... you choose a patron god when making a character that aligns with your character and can get special things based on which you pick. At least back in the 70s and 80s alot of American people were introduced to Norse gods through the game.
That is where I heard that before. I was baffled by hearing this also
I think there's at least an argument to be made, based on stanza's 22, 23, & 24 of Sonatorrek, for Egill Skallagrímsson having something like a "patron god" type relationship with Óðinn.
It's clearly not the exact thing that's usually meant by "patron god" these days, and Egill himself seems to doubt that Grímnir held up his side of things ("sigrhǫfundr | um sleit við mik"), but I still think there's at least an argument there.
What I will say, is that when I needed a branch from a tall ash in my yard, and could not reach high enough, we had an ice-storm that brought 2 branches down. One I used for my rune set, the other is being turned into a staff, slowly.
To me, I'd say Skadi froze those branches so I would have them. We have a lot weaker trees, and no other branches broke, only the two I needed.
Hey mate! Just found your channel and its really great! Keep it up! Greetings from hungary! Cheers!
Perfect explanation. Perhaps a lot of these brand new folks who come in with ideas about fulltrui or patron gods/goddesses are carrying ideas with them from other places. It may be the christian idea of a direct and personal relationship with Divinity, or it might be ideas introduced to them within their local pagan circuit. There was a lot of mingling of ideas in the 1970's-1980's, with solitary Asatruars/Heathens falling into mixed spiritual company. Even today, finding a group that is purely Norse-pagan/Heathen/ Asatru-Vanatru can be challenging-- and when we are new to a road, it is only natural to be influenced by our communities and their ways. Are there certain people out there who maybe do have mutual Fulltrui relationships with deities? Sure. But like you said-- they're the vast minority, and that relationship implies exclusivity/community consent. There was one author that wrote about a concept called the Astvinr, or "beloved friend"-- which basically is just a favored god or goddess that one likes to work with. We can choose to work with whichever being we choose. I actually really love this channel. Subscribed!
I have been pagan for a little over 2 years now. Late December of 2019/Early January 2020 was when I had my awakening. I had went through some traumatic events back in 2014/2015 that caused be to have severe nightmares and later no dreams at all. Then in the winter of 2019 I started dreaming again, the contents of such drawing me closer and closer to the Norse faith. I never claimed to be visited by any god, nor that I lay claim to levy favor from any. But as I've gone through my journey I have felt a similarity and calling to Tyr, and so he has been my focus of learning and of deepening my understanding of him. I do say that Tyr is my Patron God but I do not mean it so literally, it is shorthand when interacting with my christian family or with outsiders to paganism. It gets my point across without having to sit down and explain everything to everyone who asks such questions. Whether or not I will be devoting my life to Tyr I cannot say, as I do not think in absolutes nor do I plan for them. I just know that I am new, that I know little, and that for now my heart feels closest to Tyr and what he represents. I have much to learn and I would be foolish to believe that I could ever fully absorb and understand the weight of a faith so ancient in so short a span of time.
I am sure to many of you who have walked this path longer than I, I must seem a fool.
And to those of you who do, I humbly ask for your wisdom, your patience, and your guidance.
If I had the land I would dedicate it to hel and I would study modern and ancient funerary practices and help those with loss after spending the first half of my life so afraid of what was beyond her hall I'd like to help some of us walk her road unafraid
I am currently drawing up high detail multi acre map of a burial mound cemetery that can be used in Dungeon & Dragon theme games.
( myth telling with oracle cards & dice.)
Art style is late 1800's wood cut print artwork.
a.) South East Asians have a custom where they burry the dead for three years in the local cemetery raised dirt bed. Afterwards the eldest family members create a stained wooden box, ritually removes the bones from the grave and cleans them. Afterwards the deceased is placed in a shrine in the family's home.
b.) The old burial mounds in England, with a stone monolith core was used for contacting the spirits of the dead. The dead were buried in the dirty mound, and later dug up and had their skulls placed within the stone monolith vault and the rest of the bones burnt and crushed to ash/ dust. Either to be let loose on the wind or plastered on the vaults inter walls.
" Due to current USA/ Christian burial custom laws there will be some problems with these two traditions, yet you can have your body dump/ place in a crime science fields to track decay and what season bugs like rotting human bodies."
c.) Roman catacomb/ mausoleum, pagan Rome was into cremation and the ashes were placed into an urn and placed in a ground vault that had a garden growing over the structure, or the roof of the vault was a walkway. The urns were kept in a guild/ family niche shrine, the mausoleums were more like small temples dedicated to ancestor worship. Incense and spilling wine/ olive oil on hot coals/ rocks were normal offerings along with small cheap items, nothing worth grave robbing.
d.) Middle East Jewish burial crypt box. After three to five years when the body has dried/ broken down enough, they crush the corpse and mix your bone dust with that of your ancestors. Most boxes are large enough to hold five to seven .. fresh .. bodies. Old mine tunnels or catacombs carved out of the local soft stone. It is not uncommon on given holydays for people to visit their ancestors box and make offering of incense.
e.) Palermo, Sicily ... They dry bodies out in the local old salt mine under this given church and put the copse up on display for people to spiritual meditate their mortality.
It went from, pilgrims doing charcoal drawings, to tourist taking .. selfies. If you could hear the dead talk, some of them are just out right attention wh0res. Other places in Italy that are not open to tourist, they go down to the crypts and put fresh clothes on the deceased relatives, talk about family affairs and read to them their favorite Bible verses.
2.) Big art project, .. City of the Dead. ( 50ft x 200ft) " Greek Theme " to the gods & goddess of the underworld and magik.
Archaeology/ bone dig site are located and have a dirt bag boarder set up to divert water and a barn sheet metal roof covering to keep the site dry, and later a water pump to keep ground water under control. Please look up the YT channels of " Easy Craft DIY " and " Mr.Heang Update " for concept work.
I am not a speed drawing comic book artist, so this will be over a three year project for me. So keep your hope up and practice drawing, if you can get over fifty drawings then who knows what may come your way.
Hope you have a good up coming weekend, and G*D bless.
well said
Several reasons for this in the U.S. Early on, "Odinism" (via Else Christensen) was big and infected American Asatru with a weird, heavily racist Odin-monotheism. Later, Norse-flavor Wiccans brought it with them from Wicca (getting it from ancient Rome & Greece which had patron deities for cities). Patron deities for cities & villages were also common in early Mesopotamian cultures.
I assumed it might have been a wicca thing. Makes sense
Nonsense, Else was not a monotheist. Where do you silly kids get these ideas? Else had a different approach to heathenry then is common today, but she did not preach Odin monotheism!
@@riddickriddick9520 I'm not a kid. In the old days before McNallen and Murray, Else spread her "views" with snail mail, and not just in America. She also interacted personally with a number of early proto-heathen groups that have since died out. Quite a few veteran heathens still have some of her writings.
@@johnd5574 I am more then aware of what Else did and what she didn't do. And as I said she DID NOT preach Odin monotheism!
@@riddickriddick9520 I wonder. Else was an neo-fascist Aryan separatist who hated Judaism and Jews, and thought Odin was a good "tool" for spreading her vision of white nationalism. Her husband was a Danish Nazi. If you're saying that she wasn't particularly spiritual, I'd probably agree; but early on her focus was on replacing the Judeo-Christian deity with Odin, mainly as a vehicle to get white people away from Christianity. That's just a different flavor of monotheism, with Nazi flavoring (at least, early on). Some in her Odinist Fellowship were more spiritual and actually tried to be heathen, but she herself wasn't as interested in practicing the ancient religion.. except, of course, using it as a tool for her racist politics. Her organization survives, and is perhaps nominally heathen depending on who you speak with, and they consider her the "Folk Mother" of the völkisch movement. Most heathens would not care to claim her.
You are very wise in what u have to say!!! Skàl💀🍻 yes, keep making more videos on this subject.
Love your channel, long time watcher/first time commenter. Legitimate question, how would this relate to say berserkers & Úlfhéðinn? Did they solely worship Þór & Óðinn respectively? Or did they still venerate the rest of the pantheon? Asking as a born & raised Christian dipping his feet into what feels more natural
Great viedo as aways brother would love to see a viedo on njord. what the sources say and ur thoughts . Also the norse concept of drowning and or the special type of draugr who died at sea...
Great video, I would add to what you say at the end-that the knowledge of how to access the gods is achieved over the dedicated lifetime of a priest-it was more likely over many lifetimes no? Generational knowledge is passed down and a young dedicated priest or priestess would undoubtedly start off their own spiritual journey with rich insights and understanding from those that came before. So to reconstruct a meaningful relationship with the gods or a specific god today will likely take many generations to begin to achieve since so much he been lost and most pagans today are “converts” raised by Christians/Atheists/etc and have a non-pagan worldview informed by enlightenment-scientific-monotheistic ideas
No dedication alone will get You to have such a connection. It is Faithed.
To understand this. We'll need to look at shamanism.
First, Shamanism is a survival tool. There is no other way it would be present in every old tribe, society and ethnicity.
Its function is for the Spiritual survival of Humans. As well as the Worldly survival of the Spiritual.
Dedication alone will never make You a Shaman. These things are Faithed.
One is either thought by the Currant Shaman. Through apprenticeshipp and initiation. In the hope, the Shaman did pick someone Faith, able and willing.
Or if not possible for any reason - old Shaman dead, new tribe, Shaman burnt out and got too mad & other reasons - a Human would be thought through the Spirits. Think Ancestor Shaman Spirits, but others too. Through inspiration, possession and more.
This is described as a lot harsher than being thought by another Human. Spirits, after all, do not fully get what it means to be embodied as a human.
I invite You to not get hung up By the word Shaman. It's simply the category We nowadays use as an umbrella term.
Animistic cultures Always had and will have Shamans. The Spirits will make sure of that.
Spirits/ astral beings can only teach .. humans .. what they are willing and able to comprehend, which is why our understanding of religion & magik has grown and change over the pass two thousand years. Some spirits just love their own stories and bull crap way too much. I rattle people by telling them that not all humans carry .. human souls. Then if you really stop and watch how ill adjusted some people are to life, you start to see where the phrase comes from, " That person doesn't fit in their own skin very well."
Then there are examples I have had read over the pass year on YT and people I had met over my 43 years of life.
a.) Most people just coming into Wicca/ witchcraft in their thirties or forties were building alters as small children in their early grade school years, and kept up with it as just a form of house decorating. They never mention that their childhood .. imaginary .. friends help them build their alters. I have yet to meet a child under eight years old that doesn't have imaginary friends.
b.) Artwork, sculptures out of playdoo/ clay, some children just name their stuff animals others create figures and some how keep track of other few dozen names and of each figure and how they interact with each other. Yeah, some children & young teenagers have really over active imaginations.
c.) Drawings and paintings. Instead of penning a magik spell onto a scroll they are drawing the energy into a picture of an angel, fairy, troll, gnome, or some other creature.
Ask yourself, is that person at a " fair " really able to draw someone's spirit guide/ guardian angel ?
Hope you have a good up coming weekend, and G*D bless.
Reconstruction is very difficult. To be able to filter the little information available through centuries of other models of the world. Two of the most significant models are the christian cosmology and the scientific cosmology. The church and science divided the world between them so that science developed with a phobia for anything spiritual, and the church took their steps to make their teachings seperate from the material science.
While these two views of the world struggle to integrate they are deeply set in our basic mental framework, so moving towards paganism there is a tendency to create bridges to the scientific and christian structures. I don't see how you can avoid this without being aware of what these structures are like, and this entails just as much study of recent cultural history as the ancient ones.
In my first years in university I studied philosophy, which have been the most satisfying studies for me personally, but the teachings are also founded on the idea of development stages. That paganism is a stage, and that monotheism took over because it was superior and more evoloved way of perceving life. Today science-ism is usually perceived as more advanced than monotheism.
All this history in between that have created the world we grow up in can not be unlearned as we try to look back into history, so part of the process must be to be very aware about what we have been learning since then, that the ancient people had no knowledge about. We can't erase what we know, and what we believe now and see the ancient world with a blank slate.
Anyways I think you have a more sane approach than many who just want to fit a new set of gods into basically christian structues and practices, only with different colors and aestethics and a wider spectrum of gods, and maybe some female gods to create balance in their minds.
I have myself spent many years on the subject of nordic mythology, but I think I have used a different approach than you have, allthough maybe similar in some ways. I look forward to hearing more from your viewpoint, and share my own when appropriate.
Labels aside it is entirely a possible for specific aspects of Deity to call a person. The engagement with those aspects, even if such is not done in a patron sense, it’s still deeply personal, meaningful, and can still respect the individuality of both human soul and god or goddess, without invoking neopaganism as filtered through the lens of Wicca. edit: I would add that nothing precludes any god or goddess from having a relationship with a human being on terms of their own, whether such a relationship has been historically documented or not. I do not understand the obsession with modern pagans gate-keeping the personal experiences of others.
I love this guy.
The best being to develop a relationship/understanding is yourself. The writer and scholar Joseph Campbell states that, “All the gods, all the heavens, all the hells, are within you.“
It's definitely Wicca with the patron god. I've been into paganism since I was 21 or so. That was in the 90s and there was no internet in every home. I learned quickly about Wicca because it filled the bookstore shelves.
I have had an experience with Odin. I was a Christian at the time and he came to me in a really crazy way. Long story. I didn't realize it was even Odin for years. But, no, Odin doesn't talk to me. That I'm aware of. It'd be awesome, but, no.
At your intro, I wondering "what in the shit are you saying?", and then I thought about the German I know and then I realized it was similar to "Welkommen alle zusammen" or "welcome everyone". I think I'm right.
The modern idea of patron gods comes from other European traditions, specifically Greek and Roman cults which focused specifically on one deity.
I've never picked a specific God to follow. I've always seen a patron God as gods you who's attributes you associate with. That would be weird only working with one God.
Oh interesting! In ancient Egypt each Nome had a patron God- and sometimes proph. as special callings or worked in a certain temple. I could also see wanting to feel “adopted “ by a certain God. I certainly wouldn’t turn it down.
I think where the confusion comes in to play is that people have a god that they can correlate and learn from better. Newcomers might be under the assumption that a god was born connected to them. But whenever I here patron deity/god, I just assume that is the deity they work with more due to the god reaching out more than others, or they can learn better through a certain gods teachings.
Patron deities are common in paganism in general not just norse mythology
I've had similar dreams whoa
It might have come from the practices of Egyptian Royalty, younger sons of the Pharaoh would become priests as it was a better lifestyle. I believe they were allowed to choose where (As in which Gods temples) they became priests. However as has been the norm in history (& today) there's one rule for royalty & another for everyone else.
I do believe the Greeks did this. If you lived in a costal town you'd see a lot more temples dedicated to Peseidon. Athens, --> Athena, there's a whole story of how she and Peseidon competed to be the patron god of Athens. Sparta, --> Aries. As well as your career choice, if you were a merchant you'd worship Hermes. But if you wanted to be rich I'd think you'd worship Hades, since he was the richest god. The Romans had the same concept just different names, if you were a legionary you'd mainly worship Mars. There are so many different directions you could go with their abundance of gods but that seems like a lot of typing. I'm no Professor, but there you go.
Thank you. I don't know so much about the greek world.
@@norsemagicandbeliefs8134 my pleasure, anytime 😉
@@norsemagicandbeliefs8134 only a pleasure
Tik tok advertises these patron gods, a lot of it is from eclectic practitioners using various tools in their practice that allows them to believe that a Norse deity is trying to contact/work with them. I'm unsure about it too, although I'm semi new to this sort of work.
They formulate these ideas through associations, like seeing two ravens, or various other signs that would connect with Odin, and that would be their sure sign that Odin is trying to work with them or something.
I don't know if the idea of this is christianized but for some people it's seemingly very real for them (not discrediting their practice) but it's interesting.
Yes make that video about it please because 1 it would be nice to learn about and 2 me myself I like to just DO stuff and see where it goes.so yes please knowing more about how to do it become a priest so to say to give it a label. Would be nice to get more knowledgable
So I am completely new to all this, I was brought up Christian but I have always felt pulled to the Norse history, I also am really big on ancestry, and I have been able to follow my ancestry to the Danish Norse men and the early Norse settlement in northern Scotland. Which only made my interest in Norse history stronger.
Anyways...
I want to get all the info I can, I understand not having a patron god, but I have a question, is it ok to have a altar set up for the gods for offerings, and if so would u have to have one for every god, or could u only have a few?
Nice! Yea not at all. Do your own thing. I use one alter for all the purposes. Depending on which blot of the year. Alter inside is cool. But for offerings, definitely outdoors so nature has some way of taking it. These two videos speak about the historical sources. Good luck :)
ua-cam.com/video/0KHKZXNT7kY/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/8Zr9-chRd9c/v-deo.html
Thank u I am working my way through ur videos, I have tooled into some other channels but I find u seem to really know the info. And have facts to back it up.
@@bridgetmartin3896 I have what is basically an ancestral alter/shelf inside my home . This video sort of explains the idea behind the practice which is very old indeed. ua-cam.com/video/7Z-hKEEd6MQ/v-deo.html
@@whispersinthedark88 yeah I have a few altars in my house i have my main one which is where I do most of my rituals and spells, then I have a altar for the Gods/Goddesses, and then I also have an ancestral altar as well.
Do not fear saying others are disrespecting the traditions..they are...
I've only ever heard of patron Gods or Goddesses in Wicca.
Explanation patrion gods:
Patrion gods were a thing in antient rome, some romans had 1 god primary amonst all the others that they would prey too, and if they deemd themselves “ sinner” or lacking in their duties as a practitioner of that religion, they would something specifically, or first and formost, offer to their patrion god as a sign of their devotion to appease that god or all gods in question, but in that last case, u bet that most of the times that offer was directed at their patrion god
Sorry for this might be a stupid question.. could u link if u answered this in some of ur vids.
Where did the pagen belifs come from?
The language in the Norse? Did it got lost when the christian burned all the pagen books or?
I just wonder, cuz it seems u talk kinda island ish language..
Was the norse simular??
Once I was done with research, I went out and experienced the transcendent without definitions. I think every pagan should do so as well. The humbling experience of nature is such a ubiquitous analogy in almost every attestation of the divine for a reason. The guarantor of the transcendent is mind that is experiencing it, not the other way around. Pagan is a practice. Christianity is a better club.
i like how no bullshit you are. thank you
It may just be a psychological issue of being raised one god and growing up trying to find their way in a many god lifestyle. Creating a patron feels familiar
Exactly bro
Most of the time it is bullcrap, the. But, as one who has been initiated into a closed Traditional coven, (Traditional not as in old but, as in a created Tradition) not wiccan in any way, many years ago. ( I did leave that Tradition) I can say that what the meaning is very different within those particular occult practices. It was picked up, I assume by someone who overheard a conversation and misinterpered that conversation and wanted to be extra special and different to stand out to others. It is NOT picking a God/Goddess to be a Patron/Patroness but being Claimed by a Spirit, in ritual. Most people do not wok in this manner. Most people have no reference to this type of practice. Most would think it Fantasy . It is very different than some Tic Toc New Age Fantasy.
I very much enjoy your Norse Magic and Beliefs channel. It makes me relook at myself. A lot of pragmatic and sensible reality with critical thinking.
I am making their own up to what they’re doing
Personally, I feel that this belief is brought in by Christianity, and the idea of having 'A' God.. Rather conscious, or not.
David Price speak of the concept of Fylgia?
Where'd the idea come from that the lower class more often worshipped Þórr and the upper class Óðinn?
Cant remember if I said that in this video........but it probably changed with time depending on the class of people. Like the Adam of bremmen source I went over, Odin was sacrificed to for war and thor for famine/plague and Freyr for harvest(in the late viking age). The upper class was the war class in the viking age but before in time it was the regular class of people and the high class were the religious leaders. We see the same thing in Greece and Rome
I always found some truth in David Icke's perspective on extra-dimensional entities. I like that you worked that into Paganism. What do you think about the Gnostic writings?
The idea of patron gods could have come from some accounts of Ragnar Lothbrok being the son of Odin. This would then be interpreted by Christians in a Jesus type manner as in not just related, but out right devoted to Odin. This would further gain traction after the TV show Vikings reached its peak popularity with their emphasis in the first season on Ragnar's relationship to Odin possibly leading many to believe in the patron god thing.
the Patron God concept only work if said God chooses the individual not the other way around?
Respect all the gods, for they are the forces of nature. I do not believe in Thor. I do believe in thunder.
Does anyone know where I can find a knowledgeable guy like this that makes videos about Celtic paganism? I'm Irish guy and have Norse ancestry but I would like to learn more about Celtic paganism
You can learn and make UA-cam videos on the topic. I’d subscribe!
Fortress of Lugh is a great channel.
I am connectet with the horned god (since I was a kid), but also with other gods like Odin, Cerridwen and Anubis. I am not special but I can feel this gods and they send me signals and signs for example.
OMG you use a picture of Maria Franz from Heilung! 👏😆🌱🌳💚
Interesting. But how do you know that you are not simply in contact with a minor entity or entities instead of the gods you listed?
@@riddickriddick9520 I can never quite know. I protect myself from negative entities. That's all i can do.
As for Cernunnos, hardly a day goes by when I don't see deer, antlers, symbols of hunting and things like this. And that in a big city like Berlin. When I was in dire financial straits, I sacrificed 10 euros, and a little later, "by chance", I received 5k euros. There are many such events, but I will probably never know 100%. Same with Anubis, Odin and Cerridwen.
@@Cernunnos_83 I see. So you communicate with deities from three ancient almost forgotten religions. And they answer back by granting you wishes. I must say, I fail to see connection between any of these deities and and such pedestrian thing as money. Or deer and antler for that matter. But, hey, what do I know, I've been following the old germanic gods for only 30 years.
@@riddickriddick9520 It's not about wishes and greed. It is a connection I felt since my childhood. I never liked the christian god or Jesus, but I tried to find my place in this world. I always felt connected to the norse and celtic gods, and even to the ancient egyptian gods like Ra, Bastet and so on. It makes me happy that there are so many deities out there in the infinite universe. I am just a litte soul in this whole thing, but I love the Fae, many mystic entities and the old gods. I am 38 now, but I know nothing. Nothing about life and death, but I search for answers and the connection to the other worlds and realms behind our world.
Everyone of us follow a unique path in this life and I love to learn more. Because of this I read a lots of books about ancient gods, magic, witchcraft (Völva) and follow wise UA-camrs. We pagans are not a group of people like the Christians for example. We are more like buddhistic people, which learn very much but they never follow blind traditions and rules. I think this makes us special. 😉
@@Cernunnos_83 Well said my friend stay on your path learning never ends unless you get into it for the wrong reasons and 30 years latter you are as judgemental as a christian and can't see the connections between ancient religions :) By the way you do know a lot , your calm response to some one trying to put you down proves this . May Odin guide you on your path
There's no doubt it comes from Wicca. They typically pick a patron god and a patron goddess. It's gotta be Wicca
I'm really new Norse ... I like Odin and Freya. I'm starting with them. 🙂 I might only wanna follow like 4 deities is that ok
What happened to gullvieg how come no one talks about her The Norse Witch? Can you talk about her in future videos.
Thank you for clearing things up I am new to norse paganism and I was thinking that you have to chose a patren God that you connect with more then others. Because of the wisdom of Odin you tube channel. But now I see that they have a lot of Wiccan beliefs or ways of doing things. That are not considered norse pagan.
One word of advice is to NOT rely on any one channel/person/organization. Keep doing you while you continue to see what everyone else has to say.
I won't speak negatively about Jacob's channel, but I see that some of his videos could potentially be misleading to beginners (and his channel is primarily directed at "newbies")
You will come to see that much of neopaganism has adopted tropes from both Christianity and Wicca (who share many things themselves - IMO).
I think the idea of a “patron” god comes from the fact that the god represent different things. Because of that I don’t think a person should spend all their time on one god. I don’t like calling them gods, I prefer entity, but if you are trying to have a baby and have had a miscarriage, their is a few specific entities you could spend time focusing on and if it’s your thing, pray to them or make a sacrifice. Odin says he made a sacrifice of himself to himself in order to learn the Runes and their meaning. None of us are going to cut out an eye because that was a metaphor. I think the sacrifice of time reading or meditating and spending time focusing on a specific entity is the kind of sacrifice that would suffice in becoming more knowledgeable and “closer” to whatever “patron god” a person wants. Furthermore spending all your time with one entity is like wanting to get buff but the only thing you change in your diet is eating more protein, there are many vitamins and minerals and fat is also very Important to becoming physically fit and strong. At the end of the day I think it is important to spend time with each entity trying to learn what they represent and how we can use that in our daily lives.
Can anyone tell me the connection between Njörd and Nerthus and why they are often thought to be the same thing? Njörd is clearly a god being father to bother Freyr and Freyja, yet Nerthus is stated as being literally “Mother Earth”. I have read that they could be considered an almost “divine” pair.
Interested to know anyones thoughts/theories the seemingly interchangeable sex of this god/goddess or if there’s any reliable source material on the matter.
Probably Patron god came from near East, in near East each nation have their own supreme god, they have Covenant with that deity, they give him burnt offering, in exchange the deity will help the nation or the people who sign the covenant , even help in the war.
Could be pre misconception from dnd and stuff, that is where I know patron gods from.
Have you read the book of Enoch? If you have, do you think there is a connection between the Watchers and the pagan gods Zeus and Odin?
@@user-qj3cm4go4s my question was about the watchers from the book of enoch being connected to the pagan gods. The watchers were fallen angels that lusted for humans and taught them how to use weapons and magic.
No. I have not hear of it. I will see if I can take a look when I get a chance.
@@user-qj3cm4go4s they werent supposed to interact with humans but they started lusting for human women. So they were considered fallen angels. Some of their kids were giants as well.
@@tatumergo3931 ive never heard of that book but ill definitely take a look. Just for the record im a Norse Pagan and think that Christianity was the worst thing to ever happen to Europe. I just enjoy finding connections between religions.
As a small comparison, modern day patron saints of Slavic households originate from Christianised ancestral worship.
Patrón gods usually comes from Catholic?
Sounds like Greek and Roman traditions, and Romanized Christianity.
The WORST MISTAKE Humanity has made in its entire existence, is to accept without understanding.
I am actually a Buddhist/ Druid.
In my opinion what the Roman's did to Human spirituality is a crime!
I think it's a wonderful idea at this point to resarect all of the old ways, They should be made available to all . So everyone can choose the system that resonates with them. We shouldn't be forces by anything
to think or believe anything that we do not wish.
I don't know about patron gods. Maybe they have a U tube account ?
In the Celtic The Tathua de Dannan, are the children of Dannu, the River Goddess of the Danube. This is who I am.
In Irish Mythology there are many gods and many stories. The Gods I belive in! The stories are fiction. The point of all of this is to better understand!
Who we all are!
What our purpose is.
What our path is.
What it is to be fair and kind.
What we are when we quit dragging these heavy bodies around and are free of them.
The Definition of the Universe is Everything both matter and space.
We are the Universe no matter what else we are. The Universe is knowledge! It's a giant brain more or less. Our conciousness. That thing that we keep calling our subconscious. That's our spirit!
Instead of ignoring it , to wake up we need to accept it's advise, in other words listen to it. Becausd when your awake and you ponder a question, (it dosen't matter the question) when your subconscious beings you the answer, check it. Investigate it.
Find out that your concisness and the Universe tell the truth.
You or anyone else can fool a Druid in the short term but not for very long.
This is the power of the Druid it stems from being soft hearted, having empathy.
When Humanity suffers you suffer right along with it.
1000 Druids no one can keep a secret that they can't discover through pondering.
57 AD, NOT 60 AD The Roman's murdered over 1000 Druids at Ynnys Mon, and Holy Head. I was there!
This I learned from a Oak tree.
The conundrum is that the truth of our existence and reality are so very different from the lies we have been told.
My memory of this life is next to non existent. I was given enough to realize it's true. I was given a vision of a path and a chamber. I tried unsuccessfully to have someone search the Snowdonia for the chamber, but no one will.
Is it there or did the mining that came later destroy it?
This is where I am with my Druidry,
I hope this is some picture of what it's really like to be reincarnated. It had its difficulties but I would never give it up!
22 years later Vesuvius had Empthy for 1000 Druud's who were murdered by the Roman's.
Good by Pompei and Herculaneum.
Empthy, Caring for what's good and Right and kind in this world whether or not it benefits you or not! This is the most powerful magic I know of.
Patron deity’s are a legit thing just maybe not in the Norse pantheon but with the infernal and others, your patron” deity is the one you usually work with first and they guide you along your path. But ya
So, my thoughts are this: what if Christianity didn’t destroy Norse paganism? What would that look like today, a thousand years later? If our ancestors lived today how would the belief have changed? I want modern Norse paganism that isn’t based off of fake information but, I still think my ancestors would have added a lot more to it and probably taken some things away. If modern day Norse pagans want a helmet with horns on the side then sure why not? So long as we all understand that this isn’t how it was done in the past then what’s wrong with it becoming something we can do today? Even Christianity has went through it’s evolutionary stages in time.
What I need is a Patreon god!
Problem is that our modern age societies aren't governed by a Priest class unless maybe you live by the Vatican? So in a sense we individually are our own "priests". Does that still discount dedicating oneself to one particular entity? or would that be shortcutting yourself to the rest of what might be available? Idk i'm only speculating. This whole thing makes the mind hurt.
I think that patron god thing comes from dnd
I thought it came from Asatru, which, not to bash them, but to my mind is just a rebranding of christianity anyway, with norse themes
@@isty4491 To hid their gods history/ stories, the pagans had to change them to Christian saints and angels with the same attributes, short History of Christianity in Japan, the Christians hid Mother Marry behind their Japanese goddess of Mercy in public prayer.
@@krispalermo8133 Pretty sure "Asatru" didnt have to hide their worshipping of pagan gods from the christians as its a very recently formed "religion", much like Wicca, (re)invented around the same time, 1850s if my memory serves me - which it often doesnt)
But i once looked into Asatru, and im fairly sure it said you you should choose a patron. To be fair it was just some random website and may not have reflected all Asatru devotees
Ive considered myself a pagan for 30+ years now, and only heard of Asatru relatively recently (within last 10 years), so i had already chosen my path, was just looking into their take on things... wasnt impressed :)
Interesting point you make about the japan/Mary thing, not something i knew of, so glad to have learned it, not really sure what it has do with Patrons.
Hiding and disguising of pagan deities withim the christian mythos is fairly well known (though not a theory i cimpletely buy into), but not the same thing at all as choosing a "favourite" among a group of deities
@@isty4491 Nice reply, .. not a big word block.
a.) From your first post, just set my mind ringing, from what I read back in the early 1990's, when Christianity was really swiping Europe, weather it was the Christians missionaries bastardizing pagan folk tales into their slant of view to seek mass converts, or pagans trying to save what history they had by encoding their lore into Christianized stories before they were burnt or hung. I spent more than a few years search for " norse themes" in early medieval Northern German stories. After I reached around 19, .. I just didn't care anymore.
Sorry for my miss understanding, I don't sleep well at night.
b.) When I was into what ever you want to call it, " practicing world religions" .. maybe, Patron was not a word used .. it was Chosen deity. Honestly I haven't read
" Riding the Silver Broomstick," in over 25 years. Also I have only start to read up and watch YT covering pagan stuff for barely the pass year. I though I was dealing with some bad mental illness problems so " spiritual visualization " was just another word for hallucination. When I was in grade school I would toss pennies at people who I was not sure were really there, still did that in my 20's.
c.) Some nice videos to pass the time on due to background music and just learning more about how other national cultures dealt with Christian missionaries YT is the place. Start with " History of Christian in Japan, " just nicer to listen to then follow with China. It cover some of that Roman concept of gods being of one being but just have different names in other cultures. But in my view despite Odin and Mercury sharing similar cultural duties those two gods are very different personality wise.
d.) I think other people have covered on this page that Patron is a Greek word that Wicca borrowed. .
The whole patron Gods came from Wisdom Of Odin I do believe or thats where I first heard it from.
No, it has unfortunately been around for decades. I think a lot of it came from people crossing over from other pagan belief systems and those leaving Christianity.
The idea came from Percy Jackson and the lightning thief 💀 got gonna lie I’m 22 now, and because of that movie and other things of it’s category I grew up in love with the idea of a patron god. As I got older and picked apart wrong from right on my journey in learning the history of my ancestors I realized how much of bs that is lol
i see it all as metaphors, everyone can become immortal (divine) by ettermæle, people speaking shit about you after you die is better than none at all, not leaving an impact good or bad is a wasted life and not worthy of valhall :-) also i believe to die fighting (not giving up) is not exclusive to a battlefield for a worthy death :-)