What If Czechoslovakia Refuses To Give Up the Sudetenland?
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2024
- #possiblehistory #ph
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Welcome to "PH explains why Czechoslovakia is banned from Hearts of Iron 4 multiplayer"
real
Reminds me of a hoi4 mp game I played which had no rules but historical
UK player denied Sudetenland and Germany invaded the Czech player, Germany lost a lot of equipment and tanks, at the same time forgetting to put troops on the french border (even the German coop didn't noticed) Rhineland fell, by late 1938 Italian player joined the war and pushed southern France, (French player had disjoined government) France was capped by Italy 😭 even though they pushed into half of Germany, at the same time Polish player invaded and capped Germany, for some reason the UK didn't put their navy out and the remaining German divisions sealioned UK, because the UK player was busy, Italy took Gibraltar for free and sent their fleet to the UK, by 1939 Italy was the only existing axis member, meanwhile the only region Germany controlled was the greater London area region in the UK wtf 😭 Canadian players tank divisions was raided by Italian subs before they reached the UK homeland from Egypt, unfortunately Italy took Gibraltar at the same time and they got stuck in the med, then got raided by Italian subs, since Canada's tank left El Alamein, Italy rushed to take Egypt and the Suez, Canadas tanks died in the med. By late 1939, Hungarian, bulgarian and Romanian players joined the axis to invade Poland and retake Germany (it didn't went well) by 1940 UK lost half their country to Italy and Germanies remaining divisions, the US joined the war early, and the Soviet player left a few months later since its obvious the game will be ending soon. At that point no one took the game seriously anymore, Japanese player declared early (1940) and took the British Raj because the player sent all their divisions to the UK 😭 Japan island hopped with amtracs to Wake, Midway and somehow took Pearl Harbor. By late 1941 Bulgarian marines landed in the allied territories in south America and giving more naval range, in early 1942 Japan landed in the US West Coast, and on mid 1942 Italy landed on Florida. At this point, the allies already capped Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary and pushed the axis out of the UK homeland, they were already pushing into Italy, South African tanks also pushed Italy out of Africa. A miracle happened when the Italian civil war occured, and Italy lost all their holdings in the US East coast. In the end the entire caxis capped by late 1942 meanwhile Japan pushed from the West coast to New York and capped the US. The game concluded since there was no axis, and no soviet players, the allies will not win agaisnt Japan without the US, (Not to mention Japan controls all of the Pacific and US industry)
(I was Czechoslovakia 💀)
@@Grasshopper7649Jesus christ that was a roller coaster
@@Grasshopper7649 what a banger game
@@tetradekagon peak hoi mp gameplay
Czechoslovakia:builds defensive line
Britain:That’s a nice defensive line you have, itd be a shame if someone took it
I smiled
@@kubusbeeeI smoled
@@quandangle9397
Smoling is illegal.
@@barsukascool same
funny, did laugh
The fact that the Uk gave Germany the Czech gold is fucking bananas
That's almost on line with the Soviet Union stealing Spain's gold reserves after it was transported there for explicit safekeeping.
I literally yelled: "Are you kidding me BRITAIN!?"
@@henriquemachado9941 nápodobně
Chamberlain might have been actually mentally challenged, I can't
@@milan99cz Not really? this is actually quite a stupid idea that Chamberlain was stupid Chamberlain was one of the greatest pms of all time, appeasement was needed.
You have unlocked an achivement: *Munich Disagreement*
hahahah
Next on the Czechoslovak Focus Tree - The best defense is a good offense
Hitlers 3 day special military operation into Czechoslovakia
Germany was not hesitant to call it a war. The whole nation was revanchist.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 its a joke
@@user-dz9hb3jt1d it's a joke to you? people died because of one dictator.
@@MrEdiossThe comment was a joke
@@MrEdiossbro didn't understand the assignment
Actually Czech war industry was so important for Germany, that the most common tank in Wehrmacht during the French campaign was Pz.35(T) (Czech tank)
Actually the Czech tanks were more relevant for Poland and Fall Gelb had significantly more panzer 2s and even more panzer 3s than either the Czech variants with most 38t being too outdated to use.
Ironically the amount of 38t for Barbarossa was much higher than either Czech tank for fall gelb.
But this is also sometimes misleading- Germany did not invest too much into tanks until 1942 - Kriegsmarine had actually highest resource priority the standard weapons like artillery and then the Luftwaffe and tanks were basically last.
Only tanks being so impactful in France changed Hitler’s mind but German army group B with fewer tanks and in their diversionary attack still smashed the best forces of Britain and France in Belgium…
So number of tanks would probably not have been a deciding factor in Czechoslovakia but more the much larger German forces with very good artillery, infantry weapons and tactics and a strong supporting Air Force
@bingobongo1615 saying that germany smashed the best forces of Britain and france is misleading. They outmanoeuvred them and because of Frances incompetent leadership, the allied forces were unable to properly stop the maneuver, so they fled instead of being "smashed"
@@Battyjso they got smashed but strategically?
@@Dont14-r4k france certainly did, yes
@Battyj weren't Belgium and britsin holding them on a rover line for like 2 weeks and only had to retreat because they git flanked
the day of Czech resistance has finally come hell yea, I have been waiting for this video for 3 years.
I love these enthusiastic comments lol
Same 🇨🇿🇨🇿🇨🇿🇨🇿
Taky
W
*war of resistance begins playing*
This is basically "Blue and White squad (Finland, Nationalist China and Czechslovakia) humiliates great powers" The video
Nice
And greece
Oh wait you'd have to pretend Italy's a great power for that to make sense so u rite
Sequel: Ukraine, South Korea, Taiwan.
@@dorktriogamer2865True on that, I was going to say Greece and Yugoslavia but you're right
Chamberlain knew about the Oster Conspiracy, by the way. He knew Germany was internally weak during 1938, he would have known just like us this was a great time to put pressure on that regime, and yet he _still_ chose to appease. In Britain's specific case, hindsight wasn't necessary to see Germany's internal difficulties, and that brings their Munich conduct beyond simply foolish and into outright contemptible.
WHAT
At this point i start to think that Chamberlain was under influance by people conected to Abwer (like FDR was under influance by agents of Soviet Union)
@@gengarzilla1685 he knew that Germany was internally weak, but he was also told by the French that the German army was also pretty powerful.
And again *Britain’s rearmament was not complete yet, war was not popular at home or dominions either, and the war was still in memory*
*The diplomat said their job with the what intel they were given*
There was more to that, German Propaganda in Sudetenland manipulated British expeditions there, which had the task to see how Germans are doing in Czechoslovakia. Not only it was manipulated by Germans, but black monday inflicted some instability, which made somehow recovered germany much better for Those Sudeten Germans.
Chamberlain decided poorly, they underestimated Czechoslovakia, but Germans planted a lot of negative information about Czechs in Sudetenland...
@@CrisisHedgehog the thing is, he just needs to threaten war, he doesn’t have to go through with it.
If the allies declared unconditional support for Czechoslovakia, Hitler would back down or, more likely, gets couped immediately or once the war drags out for a few months. He just needs to commit Air Force and navy. Poland and France would squeeze Germany in
from britain's perspective "what if we went to the pub to wait for ww2 to blow over"
this was usa´s perspective in the real world
@@borekminer i dont wanna get into an internet argument, but the 2nd half of the war was really supercharged by the americans, and the pacific theatre really was carried by them, with thousands of americans dying for japanese islands.
Oh also just D-day...
@@SpahGaming yes the war effort was in there once you were forcefully dragged into it
the west was already slow at a response and in general letting germany get exactly what they want(example: britain and france gives up czechoslovakia in conference it was not invited to, then when czechoslovakia transfers its gold reserves to britain so germany doesnt get them britain gives them to germany)
this beating around the bush and letting germany do whatever it wanted is what caused the war to be as terrible as it was, but the usa was even more adamant on staying out of the conflict that even when their allies were attacked they stayed out of the conflict until japan attacked
im not denying the fact that the war mayve looked significantly differently if USA aid didnt come(there were also supplies given to britain and the soviets) its just that you didnt really want to join in and so you dont deserve to brag over other countries for them needing your help
tldr: dont brag about winning ww2 when you did everything in order to avoid it
As a Czech, I have been waiting for this video for a long time!!! :D
Just by the way, this topic still resonates a lot in our society today, and the question of whether we should have defended ourselves is often asked in history.
Hungary in 1938 had extremely small army of around 70 000 men peacetime, maybe being able to mobilize some more, but in case of them invading/presuring czechoslovakia, they'd be in disadvantage, since they'd stand against more soldiers than they could possibly deploy (more than 100 000). And USSR supposedly warned Poland, that by invading Czechoslovakia, they'd end their non-agression pact, basically warning them with direct by war.
So counter suggestion: Poland offers direct support in exchange for territorial concessions.
@@user-uo6ss4np9mIt's possible, but if you mean direst support by intervening in war on behalf of Czechoslovakia, then it would be extremely controversial for Poles since: They had a non-agression agreement signed in 1934, which they'd break by invading Germany. They had simmilar part signed with Soviets which would make Soviwts paranoid, since when the Poles can break the non-agression with Germans, they could do the same with them. Their army was also outdated and military production wasn't very high so there could only be limited mobilisation of their army. But it's surely possible. Doing this would definitely stretch the German lines to their maximim and the Oster conspiracy afterward would have been definitely a success.
@@ovca410 Fair point, but sending 'volunteers' and a bunch of equipment isn't out of the question. Doing so would also benefit the Polish with experience.
@@user-uo6ss4np9min the best case scenario the Poles would send volunteers, some equipment, maybe some resources and then also allow the Soviets to send their equipment and maybe even "volunteers" through Poland
Also ppl underestimate czechoslovakia, the day before they ceded the sudetenland they had 1.5 million soldiers, they could wreck the hungarians within a month I reckon with help from the yugoskavs and romanians
Idea: what if everything went perfect for the polish lithuanian commonwealth
Great Idea
the east would speak polish
It's already gonna happen.
Yes
Perfect timeline
You forgot to mention that without ww2 really kicking off in Europe, the USSR would've had nearly 30 million more people by 1945.
Oh no. It's red alert again
@@simonx760 Yeah... the timeline is fuked 💀
What do you mean "without WW2"?
USSR was a cult. It craved a good expansionist war and only waited for a good opportunity.
Sudet crisis was supposed to be such opportunity, USSR was fully prepared to invade Poland and Baltic states.... But then the war just didn't happen, because France and UK gave everything
@@simonx760 A RED SPY IS IN THE BASE
even without domination over eastern europe, this alternate USSR would be in a great place. 30 million not killed by the germans, land and industry intact and able to grow without only being war focused, this russia would be beastly
In our timeline the Germans got stupendously lucky. As mentioned the Czech were prepared until they were betrayed by their allies. Political difficulties in France and Belgium interrupt their defensive plans. Poland has the strategic depth to make the blitzkrieg unlikely to make it all the way through the nation without over straining their supply lines. If the Soviets didn't join in the invasion of Poland Germany likely would have faced substantial losses.
Our timeline is the "what if everything went right for Germany" timeline, and they still lost.
We at least have the silver lining in that Czech cities survived the War largely intact, especially Prague. Had Czechia gone to War, Prague would have met Rotterdam's fate. Ironic considering the few cities able to compare to Prague's rich architectural Heritage (like Dresden) were themselves flattened. Every scenario had its costs.
@@serebii666a scenario where the Checks get devastated is arguably better than the entire world being devastated
@@whitezombie10 Not for the Czechs, obviously, and a World War would be happening regardless, Japan was already being very naughty in Nanking and wider China for some years, and even if Germany would have been defeated relatively quickly (which is unlikely), the Soviet Union would likely have been a major adversary, due to their imperialist aims in the East.
No, an everything going right would be usa staying neutral entirely and not messing with axis to provoke an attack.
Or also Britain agreeing to negotiate a ceasefire after fall of france.
Or countless others, a lot did go right but far from everything.
Not really prepared, tbh, the "anschluss", or the invasion of Austria, got us by suprise a bit, we didn't have the defensive line ready on our southern border. So Germany would just have to use a small detour.
What If Norway Gained The Sudetenland?
(Please do a what if everything went perfect for Norway scenario)
Why norway? Norway is 1000km away from Sudetenland
Why would Norway need an exclave in Central Europe of all places?
@@meatycitadel lil bro its a joke
@@meatycitadel thats what i m saying
what if everything went wrong for norway instead? (still occupied by sweden or denmark maybe?)
You know, It's kinda depressive to see all the different ways that WW2 could've been avoided. One decision here or there and all the tragedies never would've happened.
It's also a bit of a miracle that the Germans didn't win the WW2 we did get, considering all the luck they did get before it and the mistakes made by Germany's opponents early in the war itself. The amount of advantages they had was scary.
Chamberlain should have never taken power in the UK. He was the weak link in everything
Possible history! Love your content! Thanks For this! Suggestion: All goes perfectly for Napoleón III
Germany: give me your land
Czechoslovakia: NUH UH
Germany: THE FRICK YOU MEAN NUH UH?
Czechoslovakia: NUH UH
Germany: YUH HUH
Czechoslovakia: NUH UH
Germany: YUH HUH
Czechoslovakia: NUH UH
Germany: YUH HUH
Czechoslovakia: NUH UH
Lol
Rest of Europe: Goodnight Kids!
Germany: THAT´S FRICKING IT, I INVADE YOU
Literally 99,9% of world countries: HERE´S SOME SWEET SANCTIONS, BON APPETIT
Their Land ? IT was Made Country by the allies after the war from ww1 in Versailles
this was the unfunniest thing ive genuinely seen in a while
love that you included info on the oster conspiracy, it is not mentioned a lot in alt history at all and its such an interesting part of ww2 germanys history
Valkyrie gets all the attention, but Oster is very much worth talking about too.
What if everything went perfect for Italy
Bro is back again, stronger than ever!
Yes but people have been requesting this for months now😭
what if everything went perfect for the etruscans because rome is overrated
ROMAN EARTH
yeees
Glory to Czechoslovakia!
Sorry I just wanted to write it, I just love my former motherland😅
1:39 but you ignore the fact that Ukraine got massive aid,while Czechoslovakia was isolated and surrounded by enemies
the fact still stands that small countries can fend off great powers
@@twix-official7329 Ukraine isn't even that small,it's one of the largest countries in Europe,it's not small as Czechia and Slovakia
A country fights against another country 4x its population and resources size but has 1)military aid of 50ish states, including a superpower 2)10 years long buildup of defense lines all across the most densely populated region in the whole of east Europe 3)mobilisation so severe that common men are left rightless in their own state just to keep the meatgrind from stopping.
And still, Ukraine is heavily loosing its war. Imagine what will happen once west stops supporting them or men just... end? Total collapse within weeks.
Chechz had much better situation overall then Ukraine does today
@@twix-official7329 It doesnt stand if the situation is completely different.
@@jokekopter2509 its economy is still smaller though
3:59 that is veeeeery incorrect. There was no such sentiment to join the germans among the slovak population as they feared being dominated by hungarians again.
They'd have done it to seek German protection against Hungary. Let's not pretend that Germany wasn't holding Hungary's leash.
there was though, they also declared independance IRL after consulting the germans and before the germans announced they would break the munich agreement and occupy all of czechia.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 of course. They had two options: be a german puppet, or get directly annexed by Germany or Hungary. That is not in any way even similar situation.
To be fair, Slovaks were quite loyal to Tiso, which has been to meetings in berlin.
Slovaks had 2 options, either get consumed by Hungary, or help Germans to get some Autonomy and protection from Hungary.
They hadnt got better Options, sadly its true that Slovaks didnt want to be part of the Republic
@@arkeliuscz On top of that Hlinka's party collaborated and was financed by the SdP in early 1938 too, with Hlinka himself coordinating with Henlein.
Video Idea: What if everything went perfect for the Axis, but on the way they make so many enemys that they finally still lose.
I like this idea.
I mean... it is what happento some sort. Axis powers seemed unstoppable, but firstly Italy invaded Grece, then Germany backstabed Soviet and Japan got to full on war with USA after there victories with China and Europeans.
Yeah kinda like reallife but 10× more extrem. For example Germany concers Britian and the Soviets. Thought that would be pretty unrealistic.
@moderpiglin2174 Britan and Soviets? Then who would left? Or is it... the might and wrath of Paraguay that concers them?!
And USandA, apparently, too...
@@koperekhabsburdzki43 there would still be a lot of people left like India, some south American countrys, Resistance fighters in the occupied countrys and ofcourse the USA
munich agreement is often called "about us, without us" everyone (including kids) sees this as the biggest betrail of our "allies" till today and for many it is the reason they trust Rusiia more.
I´m working on a thesis about czechoslovak military fortification and the more I found out hte more fascinating it is. The insane level of detail, how everything was tought ou in context is something I never tought possible. And the fact that you can visit them today-even after almost a century where most of them have been abandonen and left without any use (some bigger ones are museums but the smaller 2 stories ones and smaller are just left to its own without any usage) and they stiill look exactly the same as they did and could be used (the only thing that wopuld be needing replacing is exuipment inside and doors that were stolen as they were metal and these fortifications are in socially weaker regions (well, regions that became socially weak after expulsion of germans and forced colonization of people who lets put it mildly were not part of the ellity by the communist regime). Fun fact-it was extremly difficult to restroy these bunkers, when germans wanted to show off they dig under it and put a lot of bombs under it and when it exploded the whole bunker flew few meters in the air and landed back in its place...basically without any structural damage (all thanks to the special kind of concrete used to bulid it)...so how did germans decomisioned it? They removed metal bells and poured low quality concrete to the shooting tower that was already missing the bell
and as a last point...I wonder if we EVER get WW2 reparations (as german said few years ago they have no plans or even intentions to pay them)
On a merdé. Sincèrement désolé.
senario idea: what if egypt won the egyptian-ottoman wars?
That would require no intervention from the other powers as they did almost win
Wouldn't Muhammad Ali just conquer the Ottoman Empire in this scenario?
@@Finn_the_Catwhich would not happen. The only realistic option for Egypt is for a more limited, less threatening to the ottomans, peace deal.
6:26 I wheezed so hard.
How spineless can one be?
The sad part is that Britain can't even be realistically made to pay it back now, because neither Czechia nor Slovakia claim to be the legal continuation of Czechoslovakia in the way Russia does with the USSR. The two halves are both de-facto and de-jure new entities with no legitimate claim on the interwar Czechoslovak gold reserves. Meaning, Britain's gotten clean away with giving Czechoslovakia's gold to the German illegitimate occupiers.
I have truly never been more ashamed to be British than in this moment. Screw Chamberlain.
@@gengarzilla1685 But Russia is legaly the succesor. They still followed teaties made between the ussr and usa
I'd like to see a "what if everything went perfect for Hungary" video sometime in the future...
Day 34 of asking for 'what if everything went perfect for Australia'.
Everything as is, but no repeals of the white australia policy.
Oceanian federation, weakened Britain and China
Great union of everything in south hemisphere?
@@unknown12367 A stronger Britain, but we're not under them. Ideally America and China are both weakened and we're either an equal partner with the Brits within the commonwealth (as well as probably Canada, which would, again, weaken the Americans while propping up Britain) or we're just a completely independent nation. Which we actually aren't right now.
@@isaacskinner5565 a weakened britain means no influence in Oceanian federation. Weakened China and america means less influence in the west pacific, which means that there will be Oceanian influence instead. The commonwealth won't do any good, it's the Britain's way of trying to regain their influence and power.
Make a “What if everything went perfect for Italy”
I think that accepting the Munich Agreement was best for Czechoslovakia as I don't think Allies would do much to help us. The best scenario would be if Britain and France didn't accept Munich.
Yeah, seems it was the choice being annexed after a war with much bloodshed, or without that.
Resisting would have helped the allies, who themselves did nothing to help, but not Czechoslovakia itself.
If the allies supported Czechoslovakia in denying then, well Germany isn’t going to even make it to Paris this time line
In this timeline Hitler falls much faster, and Czechoslovakia is never a Soviet puppet, so in the long term it’s probably much better off.
Nah the leaders should have told the Germans to come and take it
@@kylezdancewicz73461.Germany would bomb Czech industry to the ground.
2.The Sudetenland which the majority of the forts are located on, have a majority German population which overall had pro German sentiments, 25% of the total Czech population was German, 16% Slovak discluding the other minorities which could revolt. It is very feasible for portions of the forts to be sabotaged by the local people, and that is only including sabotage on the forts not anywhere else.
3. The Czechslovak border with the recently annexed Austria was heavily lackong in terms of forts and defenses. They did not have enough time to plug up the massive gap with easy access to the Czech heartlands. The defenses there would be exploited and the Czech army would be on the backrun especially with German air superioirty and their better management of planes and ground support (CAS).
4. Close air support would devestate Czechslovakia which has it's core surrounded by Germany and within easy strking distance. The logistical blow to this alone should guarantee that Czechslovakia in a one on one confrontation cannot survive past a month optimisically, the logistics collapsing would quickly result in a collapse of the defenses due to lack of supply and that is without mentioning the local sabotage from the Sudeten Germans.
5. The Siegfried line was already completed so even if France went on the offensive it would not fare well with little ground gained and exposing themselves to be flanked this time without their heavy defenses protecting them. While Czechslovakia would inevitably be pacified within less than a month and at worst optimistically within 2 months.
These are the military aspects and I've given Czechslovakia the benefit of the doubt by several things in that scenario some of them being that Poland would not intervene like they did historically to take back Zaolzie which Czechslovakia itself invaded to take from Poland when it was fighting in the Russian civil war, similiarly Hungary could've sabtoaged and made things very difficult for Czechslovakia and the local Slovaks, Germans and other minorities could've straight up revolted. The only friendly country on the Czechslovak border was Romania with a small corridor towards it.
The international community would alao not look favourably towards Czechslovakia as Czechslovakia itself invaded German-Austria and took the Sudetenland by force without a referendum like how self determination was supposed to be.
This would've only further expressed how hypocritical the former entente and Czechslovakia were in their rules making thus further isolating it and the nazis would play this up making propaganda.
Czechslovakia falling was inevitable and no it would not have taken anything more than 2 months at most while it is very likely Czechslovakia could've folded in just a week. After all even the allies were shocked at how fast Poland fell, the allies were not at all prepared for the tactics which the Germans utilised heavily involving air support and air superiority which only Britain would be able to contest with in western Europe a few years later that is.
It is well known that czechoslovakia was the only country to actually democratically choose communism, only because of the western betrayal, so it's possible that if czechoslovakia was protected by the allies at Munich, WWII may have been much shorter and communism would spread so much, or atleast czechoslovakia would remain democratic
Sorry I was drunk asf
The Czechoslovak mounted a coup by forcing Benes the president of Czechoslovakia to resign and hand power over
The only country to democratically elect a plurality of communists, maybe (though I haven't checked any other postwar elections either)
As mentioned by someone before me, definitely _not_ a democratic *transition* to communist leadership
"democrarically chose Communism"
Laughs in 1948 coup d'état
Not really. The communists won in 45 but they didnt have a majority. They were losing in the 1948 polls HARD so they just couped the shit out of the country
@@zsombortelek8411it was kinda democratic coup,
18:00 since the West wouldn't be distracted by Germany, they would be able to more effectively aid Finland. France and Britain actually had a plan to aid Finland in our timeline, going through Norway and Sweden so it shouldn't be surprising if that aid was actually implemented. Britain can just sail with their navy and transports through the baltic sea and aid Finland there instead of invading neutral countries. This could result in the Soviets exhausting themselves or gaining less territory in a peace deal.
Stalin knew about the aid, however. The armistice of the Winter War was signed right before it was scheduled to arrive, so as to prevent the possibility if it escalating to a larger-scale conflict.
So if there was aid in this timeline, Stalin would know about it and react accordingly.
@@whitehawk4099Ok. Even so, I would assume that the aid could come earlier than 1940, probably around the start of the Russo Finnish war (Nov. 1939). This is because, since the UK was not exactly directly involved in this alternate war and Germany was on the backfoot, the allies would be more capable to help Finland. The UK could better focus on this conflict.
In that case, Stalin might have had to end the Winter war even earlier than in our timeline or risk allied aid, maybe even more aid than our timeline since the UK wouldn’t be busy anywhere else. The video shows that France would be the only great power involved in the alternate WW2.
We were given the choice between war and dishonor. We chose dishonor and we got war. - Winston Churchill
What if the French Revolutionary government under Robespierre defeated the Habsburgs and continued the revolutionary government.( Also remember that this scenario isn’t about the Revolutionary government surviving but rather it winning against the Habsburgs which could lead to a Pro-Borubon coup as they were gaining back power and the Army was with them as seen in the Paris before Napoleon)
Suggestion: what if everything went perfect for Brazil
@@bobesponjaagiota7640 he basically already did that with what if Brazil wasn’t poor.
great video, clealy very well thought out
Idea : what if the black October of 1993 never happened and Russian democracy survived?
7:40 “considering the French, I doubt it” lmfaoooo😂
But it's true, though.They are the French, after all.
Your pronunciation of Škoda is killing me (Š reads like Sh)
No one can say Ě ,Š ,Č ,Ř ,Ž...
@@Quinyyy sh, ch and zh all exist in English.
@@hugo57k91you left out almost half of the letrers 😂
@@cisarovnajosefina4525 idk what those e and r are, never saw them before and I'm a Slav
@@hugo57k91 yeah... Maybe becouse they are Czech
Idea: What if Italy was prepared for ww2 and entered in 1942? How staggering would Germany's victories be without Italian support? Would they declare on the Soviets? Would a prepared Italy confirm German victory in Europe and end the war?
Awesome question. We gotta get PH to do this.
@@fiertruck14 Yeah its a decent idea plus a common question
@Sxnator Italy didn't do much during that period anyway the lack of Italian units may actually help germany in barbarossa as not relying as much on its allies help might mean they hold the flanks and prevent the soviet encirclement of Stalingrad. Would that mean germany wins? Maybe if they can take the Caucasian oil fields but who knows
@@Finn_the_Cat Exactly thats why this idea is what if Italy was good enough for Germany to actually rely on as an ally, and if so would they be able to take down the soviets together. Italy didnt do much due to massive shortages of equipment and being 3 years underprepared.
@@Finn_the_CatItaly not being involved would certainly help initially. Italy's neutrality would force forces to be maintained against Italian East Africa and Libya, which would tie up more forces there than historically, as IEA was overrun fairly easily. Without Italy, the Axis also wouldn't have to guard against the Mediterranean, and wouldn't be forced to invade Yugoslavia to secure their southern flank. Instead, they would likely sign the treaty of friendship and nonaggression that they supported the Hungarians to make. Germany wouldn't be forced to intervene against Greece, so they wouldn't have to invade Yugoslavia, which would speed up the timetable on Barbarossa by about a month, giving them more of the spring. Also they would have less wear and tear on the vehicles, artillery, etc, so would perform better from that. Because of these Leningrad would likely fall, which would free up a million men to march on Moscow and Stalingrad.
Not sure about the end of this, but with more, less worn down equipment and troops, with all of what would historically be used for the Afrika Korps still in Europe, the campaign against the Soviets would have gone better, and it would have been more difficult for the western allies to affect a landing in Normandy or anywhere else for that matter.
Great video. One remark, we did not choose dishonor. Our former (and current funny enough) allies chose it for us.
11:33 I knew my boy Oster will appear in this video, and I was waiting for him all time
As someone from the Czech Republic I can't laugh at some of the comments. This is here considered to be the biggest failure in our history. We should have fight no matter what.
On this video I waited my whole life
Idea: What if everything went PERFECT for the Czechia
Germany would likely tear itself apart before they could conquer Czechoslovakia, Czech industry was i believe just that high
one factor not considered is the people on the land fought over. The border regions are inhabited by germans, many of whom wanted to join germany. Constant sabotage of czech defenses might be a pretty big problem
But as was said in the video by this time nazis didn´t show that much and many Germans were supportive, but still had doubts, which vanished just after Munich and invasion to France. Germans in Sudetenland weren´t different in that, they were happy to attack and kill defenseless civilians and sometimes smaller police force of few officers, more radical ones even tried some sabotages, but most of them weren´t eager to risk their lives for their cause, so this all basically stopped when we mobilized and the army showed up. There probably would be some sabotages, but not on scale that would influence anything that much, they just weren´t that radical to risk their lives in some massive numbers. Also Germans already tried to take Sudetenland in 1919, then the government planned 20 years how to defend against Germany and they knew that there might be problems with local german population and as such planned with this in consideration.
@@tefky7964 there is a difference between the scenarios.
German austria (not germany) was to small and weak in 1919 to hold the land. Only after that year it was transferred by versailles.
That radicalized ethnic minorities would be far more a problem with an army backing them should be obvious
@@AP-kw9ip I don´t claim that it was the same, I just say that Germans tried to take Sudetenland in 1919 and as such the government was very aware of the situation and that they will probably be hostile to Czechoslovakia in next conflict.
@@tefky7964 being aware of something doesnt make up for 3-4 Million Hostile people at the frontline which you try to hold. And "tried to take" is wrong. more like tried to keep. It was administered by german austria till 1919
@@AP-kw9ip But as I said they didn´t try to really sabotage the republic that much and there would be really many soldiers around, they wouldn´t have enough strength to influence the war that much. Also "administered by German Austria" isn´t really how it looked, they basically claimed it, had assemblies, but realistically their power was limited just inside Austria and most of the Sudetenland was administered by Czechoslovakia for most of that time anyway.
What if everything went perfect for Czechia when!!!
"What if everything went perfect for Romania". I do not know how WW2 could have worked in Romania's favor in any timeline. It was either going German puppet and losing land to them or Soviet puppet and losing land to them.
thank you for this information
finally i was expecting this for very long great video
At the time, Czechoslovakia was actually of similar force compared to Germany, they were prepared for war too, my money is on some type of draw, definitely slowing German advances
1) The Benes line in Sudetenland was weak from Austrian border. Austria was annexed half a year before Sudeten crisis, so Czechoslovak government has no ways to predict German invasion from it - so the border was not as fortified as the Germna one.
So Wehrmacht could explote it to invade Czechia from south, occupying Brno (second populated city of the country) and separate Slovakia. That will lead to a fast collapse of Czech defernce.
2) Almost half of Czechoslovakia was not happy to live in that country. It is better to call it CzechoGermany - there were many Germans, far many than Slovaks. And it was the Party of the Sudeten Germans that was the biggest party of Czechoslovak state.
So Germans, lived in Sudetenland would sabotage the Czech defence, while Slovak, Hungarians, Poles and Ukranians rebelled against the Czeck government. This will inevitabily lead to the fast and full collapse of the Czech government.
The Polish state was far more stable than the Czech but it will fall after a month. Why on Earth less populated and less stable government of Czechoslovakia would performed better? Even against weaker Germany.
3) You forgot about the Soviets. Stalin needed the full European war started by Germany for his own bisness. There are many signes of that.
For example, Soviets enspired Czechs to fight till the bitter end cause Soviets promissed the support even after the Munich agreement. But when Benes asked for help before give up to the Munich dictate, Soviets were silent - the Soviet answer "you should have resisted cause we would help in that case" came a week after the Czechoslovakia surrendered the Sudetenland. It's difficult to see it other way than the try to provoque a war.
Even on a Moscow negotiations with the French and the english Summer 1939 Stalin demands to interpretate the term "indirect agression" to such extend that almost any action of Baltic, Finnish, Polish and Romanian governments did can be interpretate as "Greman indirect agression" (as a cause for sovietisation of these countries).
No way Stalin allowed this war to started and not use it to conquer all of Eastern Europe.
This
Stalin would have obviously provided aid to Germany, yes, similar to how he aided the Kuomintang historically. He would give a slow trickle of aid to Chiang Kai-Shek, just enough to stave off the Japanese while not enough to accomplish a decisive Chinese victory.
His plan in Europe was to cause a war between the capitalist powers until they grind down one another so he can just roll over them. Obviously, historically this was unsuccessful as Germany defeated France more rapidly than anyone had expected, but the intention was there.
In this scenario, when Poland joined, the Soviets might have intervened against them as they did historically, gaining a border with the Germans which enables them to trade much more easily.
@@whitehawk4099 also point that Romania rejected Soviet troops the passage is irrelevant. Karol I may agree on Soviet troops passing his nation if Stalin abandon his claims on Bessarabia. But Soviets didn't do that.
Precisely
You do not however realize that majority of Germans did not support Hitler - and many were even willing to fight for Czecho-Slovakia. Slovaks and Ruthenians also didn't want independence, they wanted autonomy, so there wasn't a reason for them to rebel.
Edit: Plus even after the annexation of Austria, Czecho-Slovak military predicted attack from south.. Czecho-Slovak defensive plan to defend was literally "made" to counter the German offensive one..
My great grandfather Carl (mütterlicherseits) was drafted at 26 into Czechoslovakian army back in Sept. 1938. He told my mother he had thought he'd have never come back to his family because of the terrorists from Freikorps and Ordner groups attacking Czech people and soldiers in general. It was that bad really.
What if A.H. was somehow removed from power in Germany in 1938 and WW2 never happened? What would the 1940s and 1950s would've looked like?
Removing Hitler would have likely not prevented WW2. It was bound to happen after the resolution of WW1.
It might have even gone better for Germany (less alienating of top scientists, better military decisions etc).
@@Clayne151 From what I've read it seems that no one else in the German leadership was willing to take the risks that A.H. would. So in this alternate Europe it would be more likely that the Soviets would start a war.
WW2 would've probably started by Soviet Union. Maybe starting from attacking Finland.
@@peterfighter This war might've not been a world war if it was limited to Europe. It certainly would've been very different compared to our timeline WW2 especially if the alternate German leadership was smart enough to keep good relations with Britain and France.
What a wonderful world.
Also I dont think Baltija would accept soviet invasion while Poland stands.
But it makes sense, people not being scared or apathetic and instead doing the right thing does make the world a better place.
The year between Čekoslovakija and Poland was used much more effectively by the Germans while the french didnt mobilize at all. Forcing war on Germany sooner would mean they hadnt even integrated the austrian army yet, it was on paper under german command but it wasnt indivisable for the rest of the german army.
I literally did this in HoI4. It didn't go well for the Germans...
omgg thank u for this vid
Hey, I'm from Czechia and our history teacher gave us many interesting facts about the Munich Agreement.
1. If Czechoslovakia refused to give up Sudetenland, Great Britain said that CZECHOSLOVAKIA is RESPONSIBLE for the war in Europe.
2. Our president Edvard Beneš knew that we were weaker than the Germans, although our soldiers wanted to fight till the end with the fortifications to protect our Czechoslovak nation and their families, Beneš didn't want any deaths as we would probably stand alone against Germany. (we would only last a couple of weeks maybe a month)
3. After the Munich Agreement happened, Czechoslovakia was not invited, because Hitler knew Czechoslovakia would disagree right away. That's why we say "About us, without us".
4. After the Munich Agreement happened, president Edvard Beneš abdicated and left Emil Hácha in charge of Czechoslovakia, about 6 months later, he left the rest of Czechoslovakia to Germany. A lot of people take that as a betrayal of the Czechoslovak nation, although he didn't have any choice.
5. Czechoslovak's neighbors took some land from Czechoslovakia, Romania was the only neighbor nation that didn't take any land from Czechoslovakia.
Czechoslovokian industrial was massiva.
People forget how their tanks were even better than the german ones
Czechoslovakia was the heartland of Austria-Hungary and after ww1 expanded even more
@@cisarovnajosefina4525 Bohemia had the best industry of eastern europe, even better than belgium
"Baby don't give up (the Sudetenland)" hits number 1 in the 1938 charts throughout central Europe.
Our timeline was truly the best timeline for the WW2 germans.. it literally couldn't have gotten better for them
7:58 “What if Everything Went PERFECT for South Sudan?” Sounds pretty interesting.
That would be on border of Alt-history and political foreseeing
Maybe. But they had also tried to gain their independence before. Maybe in a timeline that goes better, they get their independence earlier?
There was a big problem.. Even if Czechoslovakia refused Munich, they would bee seen as agressors... YES in the Munich agreement it said : If Czechoslovakia refuses, they would be looked upon as agressors, and it would be their fault of starting a war... And i honestly think there would be no support, cuz you know.. Appeasement...
What if everything went PERFECT for Bohemia/Czechoslovakia?
If everything went Perfect for Bohemia (post 1800) the fundamentální články / Fundamentalartikel of 1871 would have passed, Austria-Hungary would have become Austro-Bohemo-Hungary and the Empire likely would not have collapsed in WW1, since it was Czech political agitation for independence and negotiations with the Entente especially from 1916 that largely broke up the empire.
0:40 When all your defensive is at the border, and germany takes that border, so you are left with defenceless inside country
Video idea: What if Ireland rebelled against Britain sooner and became a Kingdom (A Spanish noble had a somewhat legitimate claim to the Irish/Celtic throne) and joined the Central Powers in WWI.
I dont see scenario Ireland succeed in their rebellion without world war
The british would have to lose a big war to make it posible
They had a great defensive line. I've read a German general saying that if the Czechs called his bluff and Hitler ordered an invasion anyway, the generals would have overthrown him.
The funny thing is, the Czechs did actually almost do that, the only reason they 11:42 didnt was that they thought that france and uk would join up with germany against them if they fought back
Could you maybe do "what if the stauffenberg coup d'etat succeded"?
Great topic!
I actually had this happen in a hoi4 game, and thus the puppet wasn't slovaka but instead German Czechoslovakia, which meant the event to give Slovakia to poland for Danzig didn't work.
You have omitted an important detail - the fortifications were not finished, they were only placed on the borders with Germany, but not Austria. That was a major setback, as German troops could simply evade them.
someone says "Ukraine is if Czechoslovakia had not surrendered in 1939" so it was always interesting to see this scenario.
*in ww2 germany did not declare war on Poland. They just invade them without any diplomatic “lubrication”.
Video suggestion: what if Hannibal Barca took Rome after the battle of Cannae
He basically couldn´t, but it might be very interesting scenario anyway.
@@tefky7964 yeah he didn’t have the resources and time
As a Czech I feel like everyone but the USSR betrayed us in WWII. Romania turned to the Axis, Germany annexed us, Poland was supposed to be our ally but instead annexed part of our country when we were in need, Hungary invaded, Carpatho-Ukraine split with us (but now want our money for their war with Russia), Slovakia split with us and joined the Axis, and the Great Powers let Germany consume us. It hurts to be surrounded by fake friends.
Poland only took back land stolen by Czechoslovakia 20 years earlier when Poland couldn't protect it during the war with the Soviet Union. Czechoslovakia also blocked the help Hungary wanted to send to Poland at that time. Between the wars, Poland never considered Czechoslovakia a friend. Poland made similar mistakes in the past
>Carpatho-Ukraine split with us
So according to wiki they were promised autonomy but instead got nothing. What do you think would happen?
@@marcinkusmierzak991 We took it AFTER Poland ignored the treaty.
@@tefky7964 Do you mean Spa conference where Poland was forced to give up this land for help in the Soviet war. In exchange for the land, Czechoslovakia agreed to allow the transport of weapons to Poland through their territory but later blocked all transports. It was Czechoslovakia who broke the treaty, making it null and void. You can't have just half the treaty
@@marcinkusmierzak991 No, that was later, I was talking about events before Seven-day war.
Even though I don’t understand English well, your videos are really nice to watch
As a czech... We got so fucked over, we were so powerful and then it just became worse and worse
Nice video! I always wondered what would happen if czecheslovika resisted the germans, now i got my answer!
One thing not really mentioned is how Italy would react watching all this go down. This is pre-pact of steel with both the allies and little entente jumping Germany. Considering Italy wasn’t opposed to being in the allies, wanted some Austrian land, and would be horrified to get the Germany treatment here… I think we may see another Italy betrayal.
This isn’t even including the US and USSR, who both after immediately after hearing war, are gonna be seeing dollar signs.
9:55 Big doubt on Poland supporting Czechoslovakia, they wanted a piece of the cake for themselves, afterall.
My guess is that they would just invade Zaolzie and maybe even further than that in this timeline..
Sad that the Czech and Polish governments weren't on better terms before WW2, it could have helped us a lot, but alas it is our fault for fighting the Seven-Day War.
Well there would be risk the ussr would invade poland in return
It's not as absurd as it seems. The major dispute between Poland and CzS was in Zaolzie, a very tiny bit of Teschen Silesia - keep in mind, the annexation of Zaolzie was not coordinated with the Reich in our timeline, there even were skirmishes between the two invading armies.
Meanwhile, the tensions between Germany and Poland were worked out only on surface level. Germany and Poland claimed huge chunks of eachother's lands from north to south, the Polish commander-in-chief even proposed France a preemptive attack on Germany before 1936.
In my opinion, Poland could've done one of two things:
1) invade Zaolzie at the start of the war, as in the video. Poland had no ambition or need for a prolonged conflict, therefore I doubt they would try to enter Bohemia proper. A bad press could, just as in our timeline, harm Polish relations with the west for a short spell, but the prolonged failure of the Germans in the Sudetenlamd could very much embolden Poland and the west, just as in the video.
2) Poland could propose a defensive pact to Czechoslovakia in exchange for Zaolzie. I've heard a few times of similar plans in our timeline, but I don't know how true these were. Either way, in the case of Czechoslovakia agreeing, the German situation would instantly become more precarious because of the potential Polish front. If they refused, it would likely work out similarly to point 1) or real life.
When Germany annexed Austria it shook up Czech defense planning because the border with Austria was assumed to be safer and was thus lightly defended. They made efforts to fortify the area following the annexation, but it was nowhere near the levels of fortifications on the German border
Another thing to consider is that in 1938 the most experienced German pilots were still in Spain fighting for Franco along with the German tanks and weapons that were given to the Nationalists. When Germany has to fight a war against Czechoslovakia the Condor Legion would be ordered to leave Spain and German military help for Franco would stop immediatley. What would that mean for the Spanish Civil War? I personally think that it is not unlikely that in such a scenario the Spanish Republic could at least be able reach a stalemate and caesefire resulting in a Korea situation.
Idea:What if the first Chinese republic under sun yat sen survived?
What if Austria refused to give up Sudentenland to Czechoslovakia in 1919?
Scenario 3 Summary: *Wars are won by those who are willing to sacrifice everything.*
The whole story is one of the biggest fuckups in history:
1. The Germans in Bohemia - a vast majority in large parts - were never asked if they want to join Austria and/or Germany after WW1 (Austria was denied to join Germany)
2. The Czech weren't even invited to the Munich talks
3. UK and France backstabbed Czechia and gave away Sudetenland as if it'd their country
4. ...and again, after Germany invaded the rest of Bohemia/Moravia
5. The Czech could have been integrated into the Reich as in Austria-Hugary, but the Nazis stupid race ideology threated them as inferior and conquered, not as reunified equals
6. And most important: You can ever appease a bully that wants to go to war... it's said Hitler was furious that the Czech crisis didn't start WW2 and that he had to attack Poland.
8:35 neither the poles nor hungarians very anywhere ready or willing to go to war. For Poland, attacking CSK would mean being possibly attacked by Soviets. For Hungary, being atatcked by Romanians and Yugoslavians without any proper military.
But Hungary and Poland attacked czechoslovakia irl
@@RadekLazokthey just occupied not attacked
@@RadekLazok you mean that after western allies demanded Czechoslovakia to give up to demands, AFTER THAT WAS DECIDED, Poland send troops to take a piece of land that was promised to Poland during Versallies (but Czechs invaded it when Poland was withing for survival against Red Army) to not let that industrial potential to go to the Nazi Germany?
About "Soviets wanted to defend Czechoslovakia" - nobody sane would belive that russians would leave Poland after everything. Less than 20 years ago Poland was fighting agaisnt them (also in hindsight considering how Stalin hated Poles for that defeat (its kinda Stalins fault that Miracle of Vistula happened), declining them wasnt a bad decision). Also ask Baltic countries how 'inviting' Soviet troops ends.
@@k0ziolRD dont say me my comment get deleted I repaet that:
I mean in Munich thing (idk how to say in english i m not native) Germany occupied Sudetenland, POLAND occupied CIESZYN SILESIA, HUNGARY occupied SLOVAKIAN BORDERLAND.
And Czechoslovakia want Cieszyn silesia bc Bohemia part of Austria-Hungary have that and Poland want it bc they speak there Polish, so they split it but Poland want it still so thats why they occupied it. And Hungary occupied Slovakian borderland bc they speak there Hungarian.
Im czech and I know hystory of my country
@@k0ziolRD why r you speak about sssr and baltic? I didnt say anything about it
Idea: what if everything went perfect for the Netherlands
Outcome: Entire world is now terrestrial, the Dutch have won. The seas are no more
@@amacsizbirkisi lol
In which century? Could be several moments in time.
Day 3 of asking for “the ottomans reforming”, or “everything goes perfectly for the ottomans”
two history scenarios which I think would be interesting are: what if the crusade of Nicopolis succeeded? And what if the U.S. was more of a direct empire like Britain? (in contrast to our America which was more of an indirect empire, with "friendly governments" and such). Then again, it's not a question of "if" but "could"
Day 2 of asking for “what if everything went perfectly for the Ottoman Empire”, or “what if the Ottoman Empire successfully reformed”
"THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT BY SAYING ANSHLUTZ!"
idea: what if everything went well for georgia
Which one
@@lightdrgn20 why would it be the state
cool
What if Imperial Iran joined the Central Powers?.
what if Everything went perfect for Argentina? What if Everything went Perfect for South Africa??.
Video Idea: What if the Qing modernised like the Japanese.
No opium? 😢