Truth is there was option to take it. Sice Kranaja gorka upraisin let soviet fleet to capture whole baltic fleet was about to fall Estonian hands. Russians then had insult that they lost the city and storming it Estonia used whites as defenseand ending war half year later. leavingwar and letting soviets to capture city or giving whole captured territory to finnland. Before war in Petersburg were some 150000 Estonians even more than those lived in Tallinn that time. Fact is Stalin killed about 250000 finno- ugric people in Petersburg and area.Also Jews may have had that cityas autonomus part of Estonia to pump up population since in Estonia before ww2 Jews had cultural autonomy. Estonia would hadborder on Gauja river aswell making Estonia much bigger the same size as Finnland about 2.5M. but Estonians making about 55% of it Russians 20% Finns 10% Jews 10% others less.
Tallin means danish city/fortress already, so Tallingrad would literary mean the danish fortress city; all because Denmark ruled Estonia from 1219-1346 😅 Fun Fact: Helsinki has a fortress which is named Sveaborg (swedish fortress) in swedish, but the finnish government renamed it in finnish from Viapori to Suomenlinna (finnish fortress) in 1918 😅
Also, for language nerds, notice how finns would pronounce Sveaborg, notice especially how soft consonants b, d, g becomes p, t and k in finnic languages (also includes sami); dan->ta, borg->pori. You can also see that in other cities, like Esbo (swedish) becomes Espoo in finnish. It's actually not that the consonants become harder, but that finnic languages has different pressure due to their accent and thus hard and soft consonants sound the opposite to our indo european (germanic?) accent system (see aspiranted and unaspirated consonants for more info) I am norwegian btw and don't actually speak any uralic languages 😅. Though I just really love how sami and kveeni (the north finnish dialect in Norway and Sweden (called Meänkieli in Sweden) can tell us what place names in the north actually means, like we only know the etymology of places like Ibestad because sami hasn't had the same sound changes as norwegian in the last millenium (but different sound changes obvioulsy. Forced danization of both norwegian and sami also played a major role obviously). For example the city of Narvik, which was renamed from Victoriahavn in 1901 (after the swedish crown princess) to Narvik (to sound more norwegian and nationalistic). In norwegian it is still called Narvik (which was just one farm nearby which they thought sounded nice, same happened in southern Norway to with places like Rjukan or Notodden), but kveeni never changed their name and still calls it Victorianhamina. Whilst lulesami calls the city Ákhánjárga indicates that Knarravik probably the original name (not realated to the nearby Ankenes btw). Knarravik means the bay of "knarr"+s. A knarr was a common merchant ship during and after the viking age, like what Erik the red sailed to Greenland in.
@@sofiaormbustad7467 Aint no way I just discovered another linguistics nerd -oh, wait, this is possible history, of course, we're all fucking weird-ass nerds with too much time on our hands
What's interesting is that Finland was actually quite close to marching on to Petrograd, only being stopped by the election of their first president, K.J. Ståhlberg! His opponent, one C.G.E. Mannerheim, was in talks with Winston Churchill before the 1919 elections to invade Soviet territory. He demanded a 15 million pound loan from the Entente along with military and equipment support, a committed political backing from Britain for the operation, and for the White Army to recognize an Independent Finland that was to also annex Petsamo and Eastern Karelia in its entirety. He was also open to couping the government after he had lost the election in July. There were also plans by the newly independent countries of Finland and Estonia to invade the Ingrian lands and annex as much of them as possible during this period, with Ingrian volunteer armies and governments being set up by the advancing Finno-Estonian armies. Along with this, there were the Kindred Peoples' Wars, Finnish funded rebellions and expeditions that went on from 1918 to 1922, where independent military expeditions (with covert state help) advanced into Eastern Karelia and Ingria in the hopes of annexing the majority Finnic regions. This truly is one of those scenarios that are far too outlandish to even believe to had happened, but history tells us otherwise.
Mannerheim even offered to aid kolchak in his offensive and aid denikin’s march on moscow by offering to invade petrograd with 200 thousand men, but kolchak refused to bend and broke
@@Triple_AllianceI mean it does make sense, White forces were strictly against Brest-Litovsk Treaty and used it as one of the justifications of why Bolshevik goverment should not be kept in power. For them to agree to give away lots of Russian territories not just to foreign nation but to recently seceded one from their Empire is unacceptable term.
@@Ocelot835 yet kolchak was dictator of the white forces in the east, mannerheim told him that the the lifeline was still open after the white counterattack halted, the white forces knew the situation was desperate and a lifeline in return for recognizing finish independence was acceptable to white forces, but not to kolchak
I must ask, does this mean that "linn", or at least the suffix "-linn" mean "city" in Estonian? I'm aware your capital city is called "Tallinn", so it sounds like it is at least a suffix like "-grad", "-burg", and "-ton". I'd also like to know more about your nation and language, I'm fascinated with learning about lesser known nations and from people who live/were born there as opposed to websites and books. I must admit I don't know much about that region of Europe outside of major powers ie Russia, Germany, and Sweden. I do know what your flag means, at least. If you're willing to educate this American, I guess I'm most curious about the classification of your language (I understand that it is supposedly related to Finnish of the Finno-Ugric group alongside Hungarian), the Estonian quest for Nordic identity, and the current state of your nation.
There is another factor you didn't mention why it didn't happen. When Estonian soldiers got into Russia, they were losing interest. At the end of the day, Estonian soldiers simply wanted independence, they didn't care about conquering Russian lands.
Watch Actually Existing Socialism podcast's episodes on Baltic socialism instead to get a holistic understanding of the class forces involved in these wars for "independence" and liberation
@@obsessivefanboyclass forces what? Sounds like you’re trying to push socialist propaganda to push your idea that classes divide people more than their nationality! I’m not buying it!
Cue music that plays at 10:16. Vilkku, the accident happened 3 years ago, let your girlfriend go. (Short pause) It wasn't your fault. (Another Pause) Let her go, start a new life, fall in love again, that what she would've wanted. (Third pause here jeez) For you to be happy.
No doubt the video is going to be great. Also some video ideas: 1. What if everything went perfect for Serbia 2. What if United Kingdom of Netherlands survived 3. What if everything went perfect for Portugal 4. What if the French Revolution never happened
As someone that's been to Eesti Sõjamuuseum, I can tell you this was not that inconceivable, to be honest. The Estonians had connected up with the Lithuanians near Daugavpils and this flank was mostly handled. Petseri was under control and they had marched towards Pihkva. It was not that crazy to reach the gates of Peterburi.
Some more ideas: What if Udgern-Sternberg remained in power after the civil war? What if history went perfect/terribly for the Dutch? (Dit zou u wel interresant vinden) What if Egypt-Albania came into being (it was a real idea, since they had dynastic ties from the Ottoman Empire)
In such timeline, there's one more scenario very likely to happen, if the unlikely event of capturing st Petersburg happens. Because there would be land border between Estonia and Finland, it wouldn't be too far fetched to have a single country instead of two separate countries. The language, culture and world views are very similar between Estonian and Finns. Having 2 countries like we have in our timeline can be considered a bit of an accidental artifact. As a single country, dealing with st Petersburg would be a little easier, too, and the "winter war" would be a completely different war.
@@NotUselessProductions apparently the reason east Karelians didn't join the independence movements in time was because of famine. Once they didn't have famine independence movements started but the soviets crushed those
@yu8vc1is8z nah, the Finns stayed away from st. petersburg despite the nazis pleads to close in. You'd have a better claim if you'd talked about Petroskoi
No way no way, the one scenario i was ultra hyped for, but i was woried it wouldnt be relased. Even if normal video, i am hyped for entire wekk for next video
that's an incredibly cool idea, yeah. Bohemian control over modern-day Austria at one point is mostly forgotten because it was so brief. Would love to see it spiral into a stronger Czech state overall and see the consequences of a major power there instead of just a regional one
@@maciejbala477 Yea, thats why i want to see it. I even consider making that video by myself. Bad thing is, that this early in history, basically everthing could happend.
As an Estonian, I do think it's unlikely that Estonia would've been able to keep the city until the 1930s, but if it did happen, then Estonia would have been stronger and more confident in its ability to defend. This would've meant that Estonia would've participated in the Winter war, and Latvia would also be involved, since they had a defence pact. Estonia would have lost St. Petersburg in the war, but would've remained independent together with Latvia and possibly Lithuania. During the Cold war, the Baltic states would've probably been neutral similarily to Finland, because the Soviet Union is weaker in this scenario, though this depends on the exact course of WW2.
@@ыцццФццц Baltics have a very similar climate to Finland. The Soviets would be dividing their forces between more fronts in this scenario. The terrain is similar too, meaning that the Soviets would be funneled onto a few small roads surrounded by forests, just like in Finland. Owning St. Peterburg would give more strateegia depth to Estonia, so it could afford falling back onto more advantageous defensive lines.
Great video all around! I do think that as the Soviets approached St. Petersburg that the resident Finns, Estonians, and Ingrians would have fled west into Estonia or north into Finland to escape them, as did the Finns and Karelians when the Soviets approached Finland from the south and east in the Winter/Continuation wars.
Great video! i find it interesting on how Estonia and Finland worked together against the bolsheviks in the scenario. SUGGESTIONS: What if the UK and Netherlands remained in a union? What if Sweden won the Great Northern War? What if the crusades succeeded? What if the League of Three Emporers was successful? What if the Arabs won the Reconquista? What if the Ottomans modernised? What if the Holy League survived? What if Italy was a confederation after Napoleon? What if the Confederacy won the American Civil War?
These are all interesting hypotheticals. I would also point out to all those saying X would’ve happened differently or Y. Alternate history by its very nature is fiction, we can make educated guesses sure but aside from that it’s just a single theory or viewpoint. Still possible history does do a very good job of explaining why he’s crafted the story the way he does and it’s one of the reasons I enjoy watching this.
while also having small populations, the votians and izhorians should also be accounted for when using population estimates. since votians are so close to estonians linguistically (and considering the pan-finnic sentiments of that time), i could see estonia annex a bit more of the autonomous area where votians historically lived
@@NotUselessProductions yes. not meant to be confused with ingrian finns. ingrian finns are finnish (savonian actually) immigrants to ingria, whilst izhorians are the more indigenous finnic people of ingria, along with votians
You had the Heimosodat happening during the Interwar, where Finland was fighting the USSR using volunteers, either directly or indirectly where volunteers fought for East Karelia, Ingria and Estonia. I feel like a successful Heimosodat would result in a Greater Finland, where all Baltic Finns form a union.
PH, can you make a video about a Palaiologid Byzantium that survives in Southern Italy that eventually conquers much of the peak Roman Empire? I would like it to be over the top, so stuff like early population booms from an agricultural/industrial revolution from discovering the four-crop rotation system early in Flanders with Britain after helping the Dutch secure it in their revolt; discovering the New World alongside Genoa, their allies (Columbus was Genoese), creating a Roman-settled FAR west; and ethnic supremacy from a great population, planting Greek Romans in the former Western Roman Empire, which had lost much of its population in wars and plagues. The great Serbian Migrations into Hungary would include Hellenized Serbs and Greeks too, now, and in greater quantities from the early population booms, eventually securing Pannonia. It’s over the top
I think it would be much brighter to how you depict it. Sankt Petersburg would have become a free enclave for all opposers of communist rule and a safe heaven for white emigrees, who would have at least a piece of their native land for themselves. They would probably reach some sort of agreement with the Estonians, even though tensions would still occur. Heck, we might even see a surge of repressed peasants and workers escaping from nearby region if Stalin comes to pover and enacts collectivization and Great Terror, and an earlier version of Berlin Wall erected around it.
Or it never comes to that given there are high chances Appeasement ends up less appeasement and more the Allies requiring Germany contributing to supporting efforts to check the looming specter of war with the Soviets, for their land grabs, which potentially butterflies away WW 2 as we know it, since it would put the fascists into a situation, where they can't say no, since communists are supposed to be their enemy too.
It’s pretty misleading to say that the population of Petrograd was entirely loyal to the Soviets by the time the Estonian advance had occurred. By this point in the russian civil war, something called the “Bolshevik disillusionment” was occurring, where the Bolsheviks lost a lot of their popularity among the general masses which they once held a large degree of support from - this was due in large part to their authoritarian tendencies. Using only the city of Petrograd as an example, the Bolsheviks barred opposition parties in the local Soviet from running on the grounds of “anti-revolutionary activity,” but it was clear to everyone then that they feared losing the city in local Soviet elections in the same way they lost other cities like Niznhy Novgorod and Rostov. In response to this, the workers of the city organized against the Soviets and were met with harsh repression by local authorities. In the city of Rostov, the local socialist political infighting and Bolshevik repression had been so bad that when the Germans arrived in 1918, they were viewed as being a stabilizing force more than invaders. With the dissolution of opposition parties in the city, which very much had been growing in popularity, it’s likely that many in the city would be apathetic to the Bolshevik’s plight much like how the population of Rostov was when they were met with German soldiers.
I'm suggestion to make a video about what if "the reconcista never happend" i find this senario interessting because it cant lead morocco to discover the americas and becaming a major power for some years that will make an african alternative history video which is very rare
if russia has made st petersburg into such a big city, i cant even imagine what hard working estonians could have made it. It would have also saved our ingrian brothers 🇫🇮 ❤🇪🇪
Eesti mentioned 🗣🗣🗣🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪‼️‼️‼️
holy moly
Estonia on top 🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪
Võinas Eestii Riigitüüri!
Greetings to super alko i mean Estonia from Finland.
Impossible
You have used the forbidden spell of summoning every Estonian ever to your video
🤣
Jah
Thats like, 2 people total
😂
That is like 5 ppl
0:12 "this scenario is based" damn right it is
Based on facts
Based beyond levels
Based as in low born?
Based? Based in what?
Truth is there was option to take it. Sice Kranaja gorka upraisin let soviet fleet to capture whole baltic fleet was about to fall Estonian hands. Russians then had insult that they lost the city and storming it Estonia used whites as defenseand ending war half year later. leavingwar and letting soviets to capture city or giving whole captured territory to finnland. Before war in Petersburg were some 150000 Estonians even more than those lived in Tallinn that time. Fact is Stalin killed about 250000 finno- ugric people in Petersburg and area.Also Jews may have had that cityas autonomus part of Estonia to pump up population since in Estonia before ww2 Jews had cultural autonomy. Estonia would hadborder on Gauja river aswell making Estonia much bigger the same size as Finnland about 2.5M. but Estonians making about 55% of it Russians 20% Finns 10% Jews 10% others less.
When Leningrad becomes Tallinngrad
Tallin means danish city/fortress already, so Tallingrad would literary mean the danish fortress city; all because Denmark ruled Estonia from 1219-1346 😅
Fun Fact: Helsinki has a fortress which is named Sveaborg (swedish fortress) in swedish, but the finnish government renamed it in finnish from Viapori to Suomenlinna (finnish fortress) in 1918 😅
Talliningrad
Also, for language nerds, notice how finns would pronounce Sveaborg, notice especially how soft consonants b, d, g becomes p, t and k in finnic languages (also includes sami); dan->ta, borg->pori. You can also see that in other cities, like Esbo (swedish) becomes Espoo in finnish. It's actually not that the consonants become harder, but that finnic languages has different pressure due to their accent and thus hard and soft consonants sound the opposite to our indo european (germanic?) accent system (see aspiranted and unaspirated consonants for more info)
I am norwegian btw and don't actually speak any uralic languages 😅. Though I just really love how sami and kveeni (the north finnish dialect in Norway and Sweden (called Meänkieli in Sweden) can tell us what place names in the north actually means, like we only know the etymology of places like Ibestad because sami hasn't had the same sound changes as norwegian in the last millenium (but different sound changes obvioulsy. Forced danization of both norwegian and sami also played a major role obviously). For example the city of Narvik, which was renamed from Victoriahavn in 1901 (after the swedish crown princess) to Narvik (to sound more norwegian and nationalistic).
In norwegian it is still called Narvik (which was just one farm nearby which they thought sounded nice, same happened in southern Norway to with places like Rjukan or Notodden), but kveeni never changed their name and still calls it Victorianhamina. Whilst lulesami calls the city Ákhánjárga indicates that Knarravik probably the original name (not realated to the nearby Ankenes btw). Knarravik means the bay of "knarr"+s. A knarr was a common merchant ship during and after the viking age, like what Erik the red sailed to Greenland in.
@@Abraxium stables 💀
@@sofiaormbustad7467 Aint no way I just discovered another linguistics nerd -oh, wait, this is possible history, of course, we're all fucking weird-ass nerds with too much time on our hands
Average Hoi4 multilayer game
average hoi4 non hist game
Normally, it is either Lithuania or Latvia
Nah lithuania becomes poland lithuania takes the baltics and invades russia gets to moscow and gets invaded by germany is the average Baltic mp game
Russia is a small province of Estonia 🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪
No, it's east east prussia lol
(Good pun by you)
@@ThePlanet_7may I intrest you with "Eesti piir käib vastu Hiinamüüri"?
FREE OUTER MONGOLIA FROM RUSSIA, PUPPET OF ESTONIA 🇹🇼🇲🇳🤜🏻🇷🇺🇪🇪
@@User-o8nFinland and Estonia are just West Mongolia in the first place. ÖÖÖÖÖÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÖÖÖÖÖÖ
Based
What's interesting is that Finland was actually quite close to marching on to Petrograd, only being stopped by the election of their first president, K.J. Ståhlberg! His opponent, one C.G.E. Mannerheim, was in talks with Winston Churchill before the 1919 elections to invade Soviet territory. He demanded a 15 million pound loan from the Entente along with military and equipment support, a committed political backing from Britain for the operation, and for the White Army to recognize an Independent Finland that was to also annex Petsamo and Eastern Karelia in its entirety. He was also open to couping the government after he had lost the election in July.
There were also plans by the newly independent countries of Finland and Estonia to invade the Ingrian lands and annex as much of them as possible during this period, with Ingrian volunteer armies and governments being set up by the advancing Finno-Estonian armies.
Along with this, there were the Kindred Peoples' Wars, Finnish funded rebellions and expeditions that went on from 1918 to 1922, where independent military expeditions (with covert state help) advanced into Eastern Karelia and Ingria in the hopes of annexing the majority Finnic regions.
This truly is one of those scenarios that are far too outlandish to even believe to had happened, but history tells us otherwise.
Mannerheim even offered to aid kolchak in his offensive and aid denikin’s march on moscow by offering to invade petrograd with 200 thousand men, but kolchak refused to bend and broke
@@Triple_AllianceI mean it does make sense, White forces were strictly against Brest-Litovsk Treaty and used it as one of the justifications of why Bolshevik goverment should not be kept in power. For them to agree to give away lots of Russian territories not just to foreign nation but to recently seceded one from their Empire is unacceptable term.
@@Ocelot835 yet kolchak was dictator of the white forces in the east, mannerheim told him that the the lifeline was still open after the white counterattack halted, the white forces knew the situation was desperate and a lifeline in return for recognizing finish independence was acceptable to white forces, but not to kolchak
Ståhlberg, Mannerheim.....all the most successful Finnish politicians back in the day were sneaky Swedes lol
this should have a video on its own
As an Estonian I think the most likely Estonian name for St. Petersburg would be Neevalinn meaning Neva (river) city.
Lihtsalt Neeva nagu Keila ja Narva, sobib ka Laadoga
Pätsburg
@@treokas Laidonerburg, Tõnnisonburg
@@aurorauskas Lihtsalt Neeva kõlab hästi.
I must ask, does this mean that "linn", or at least the suffix "-linn" mean "city" in Estonian? I'm aware your capital city is called "Tallinn", so it sounds like it is at least a suffix like "-grad", "-burg", and "-ton". I'd also like to know more about your nation and language, I'm fascinated with learning about lesser known nations and from people who live/were born there as opposed to websites and books. I must admit I don't know much about that region of Europe outside of major powers ie Russia, Germany, and Sweden. I do know what your flag means, at least. If you're willing to educate this American, I guess I'm most curious about the classification of your language (I understand that it is supposedly related to Finnish of the Finno-Ugric group alongside Hungarian), the Estonian quest for Nordic identity, and the current state of your nation.
The soviets would just... Take it back?
Yeah…
Yes, but that wouldn't make for an interesting video.
That's what the video said
No, Estonia is too strong
Estonian will just sing back
it's barely been a few videos but the new style is already normal
There is another factor you didn't mention why it didn't happen. When Estonian soldiers got into Russia, they were losing interest. At the end of the day, Estonian soldiers simply wanted independence, they didn't care about conquering Russian lands.
For those who want more info on the Estonian War for independence, I highly suggest Eastory's video on the topic. It's very informative and detailed.
this comment!
W
Watch Actually Existing Socialism podcast's episodes on Baltic socialism instead to get a holistic understanding of the class forces involved in these wars for "independence" and liberation
"Socialism" probably soviet propaganda @@obsessivefanboy
@@obsessivefanboyclass forces what? Sounds like you’re trying to push socialist propaganda to push your idea that classes divide people more than their nationality! I’m not buying it!
Baltic conflicts post ww1 are some of my favourite to learn abt. Happy to see them covered too
Specifically estonia is my favourite of the baltics
And in this time line, with near four times the population. How much stronger has the Estonian football team become?
THE AMOUNT OF EXITEMENT THE DECONF I SAW THIS POP UP MAN (I am an Estonian)
Babe wake up, new possible history video just dropped
Cue music that plays at 10:16. Vilkku, the accident happened 3 years ago, let your girlfriend go. (Short pause) It wasn't your fault. (Another Pause) Let her go, start a new life, fall in love again, that what she would've wanted. (Third pause here jeez) For you to be happy.
I love your videos. Thank you so much for creating such fun and interesting videos consistently.
I really like these butterfly effect scenarios. Keep up the great videos!
You have used the forbidden spell of summoning every Estonia to your video😂😂🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
No doubt the video is going to be great. Also some video ideas:
1. What if everything went perfect for Serbia
2. What if United Kingdom of Netherlands survived
3. What if everything went perfect for Portugal
4. What if the French Revolution never happened
What if Serbia shunk into the ocean
The French Revolution not happening might be the most impactful change possible to modern history.
For no2 there would need to be some reasons behind it. Same with no4
When I think about it Portugal it haven't had the alternate history scenario.
As an Estonian I've wanted to hear this what if? scenario for soooo fricking long, let's gooooo!
Based alternative history, greetings to the uralic people from the altaic people
Day 1 ansking for: South africa was colonized by dutchs (uk dont colonized), sorry for my english
Thank you I love Türkiye as well 🇫🇮❤️🇹🇷
Love your content! Thanks For this
I swear I had a dream or watched a youtube video about this or something today....
(also great video once again)
OMG WHAT ESTONIA MENTIONED IN PH 🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅
As someone that's been to Eesti Sõjamuuseum, I can tell you this was not that inconceivable, to be honest. The Estonians had connected up with the Lithuanians near Daugavpils and this flank was mostly handled.
Petseri was under control and they had marched towards Pihkva.
It was not that crazy to reach the gates of Peterburi.
Some more ideas:
What if Udgern-Sternberg remained in power after the civil war?
What if history went perfect/terribly for the Dutch? (Dit zou u wel interresant vinden)
What if Egypt-Albania came into being (it was a real idea, since they had dynastic ties from the Ottoman Empire)
Egypt-Albania kinda sounds like it was ripped straight out ck2... but somehow still plausible???
He already did a video somewhat about the mad baron in everything went perfect for Mongolia
Hello to our dear brothers in the south from a random Finn ❤
Hi from Estonia 🇪🇪!
i would love to see this expanded upon in a “what if everything went perfect for estonia?” video!
Same man
Suggestion: What if everything went perfect For italy?
Ooooooo i like this
Starting from the classical period? The resorgimento?
@@benjaminnickerson3961 probably make unification earlier so Risorgimento period
Complete South Italian replacement with North italians or germans
THIS IS THE GREATEST VIDEO EVER YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Video idea: What if history went perfect for Czechslovakia?
EVERY MODERN EMPIRE VID LETS GOOOOO 😊
Steiner but he leads a counter attack against red army forces in estonia
Cool, but now make an alt history where Latvia got more land c:
In such timeline, there's one more scenario very likely to happen, if the unlikely event of capturing st Petersburg happens. Because there would be land border between Estonia and Finland, it wouldn't be too far fetched to have a single country instead of two separate countries. The language, culture and world views are very similar between Estonian and Finns. Having 2 countries like we have in our timeline can be considered a bit of an accidental artifact.
As a single country, dealing with st Petersburg would be a little easier, too, and the "winter war" would be a completely different war.
A Finnic Union like that would probably also want Karelia because Karelians are Finnic along with Finns, Estonians, and Ingrians
definitely a good idea, yeah. Kind of like a Czechoslovakia of the North
@@NotUselessProductions apparently the reason east Karelians didn't join the independence movements in time was because of famine. Once they didn't have famine independence movements started but the soviets crushed those
@yu8vc1is8z nah, the Finns stayed away from st. petersburg despite the nazis pleads to close in. You'd have a better claim if you'd talked about Petroskoi
@yu8vc1is8z good joke, there is no merit to capturing the city. They advanced to pre-winter war positions and that's all
YES! HE REMEMBERED THE MODERN EMPIRES! THANK YOU!
This is THE video of all time
No way no way, the one scenario i was ultra hyped for, but i was woried it wouldnt be relased. Even if normal video, i am hyped for entire wekk for next video
Rakastan sinua Viro! 🇫🇮❤️🇪🇪
Watching this right before the live
I love this video so much
Great video mayby not too much realistic but fun
Alt-alt history: What if Finland and Estonia united after the capture of St Petersburg?
I was thinking about that as well
Finland had about 3 million people at the time, so that would balance the Russian population
The most based scenario ever. St. Petersburg has always been Finnic land .
And they manage to liberate eastern Karelia too to form Estonian-Finnish-Ingrian-Karelian federal state.
Suggestion: What if the Hungarian Soviet Republic wasn't overthrown
OOOOOOOOOO IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS
history is not boring) well done)
This was a scenario I was thinking of too a while ago!
What if Habsburgs never rose to power? (What if Habsburgs lost to Premysl Otakar II at battle of marchfield 1278, thus never getting Austria)
That would be so cool
I want this video!
@@mariosgame516 Bohemia would be pretty strong in this timeline
that's an incredibly cool idea, yeah. Bohemian control over modern-day Austria at one point is mostly forgotten because it was so brief. Would love to see it spiral into a stronger Czech state overall and see the consequences of a major power there instead of just a regional one
@@maciejbala477 Yea, thats why i want to see it. I even consider making that video by myself.
Bad thing is, that this early in history, basically everthing could happend.
Imagine how despised Estonia would be in modern Russian propaganda
My country has a good video finally
As an Estonian, I do think it's unlikely that Estonia would've been able to keep the city until the 1930s, but if it did happen, then Estonia would have been stronger and more confident in its ability to defend. This would've meant that Estonia would've participated in the Winter war, and Latvia would also be involved, since they had a defence pact. Estonia would have lost St. Petersburg in the war, but would've remained independent together with Latvia and possibly Lithuania. During the Cold war, the Baltic states would've probably been neutral similarily to Finland, because the Soviet Union is weaker in this scenario, though this depends on the exact course of WW2.
How? Finland was able to defend due to harsh climate conditions, I very much doubt that little baltics had such an advantage
@@ыцццФццц Baltics have a very similar climate to Finland. The Soviets would be dividing their forces between more fronts in this scenario. The terrain is similar too, meaning that the Soviets would be funneled onto a few small roads surrounded by forests, just like in Finland. Owning St. Peterburg would give more strateegia depth to Estonia, so it could afford falling back onto more advantageous defensive lines.
Please tell me more about the Estonian-Latvian defensive pact.
This is an alt. History scenario thwt Really interests me
Great video all around! I do think that as the Soviets approached St. Petersburg that the resident Finns, Estonians, and Ingrians would have fled west into Estonia or north into Finland to escape them, as did the Finns and Karelians when the Soviets approached Finland from the south and east in the Winter/Continuation wars.
EESTI MENTIONED!?!?!🇪🇪🇪🇪
6:22 looks like every modern empire is back on the menu boys!
Great video! i find it interesting on how Estonia and Finland worked together against the bolsheviks in the scenario.
SUGGESTIONS:
What if the UK and Netherlands remained in a union?
What if Sweden won the Great Northern War?
What if the crusades succeeded?
What if the League of Three Emporers was successful?
What if the Arabs won the Reconquista?
What if the Ottomans modernised?
What if the Holy League survived?
What if Italy was a confederation after Napoleon?
What if the Confederacy won the American Civil War?
I like the Reconquista one
Bro USSR can’t catch a break in your videos😭
These are all interesting hypotheticals. I would also point out to all those saying X would’ve happened differently or Y.
Alternate history by its very nature is fiction, we can make educated guesses sure but aside from that it’s just a single theory or viewpoint.
Still possible history does do a very good job of explaining why he’s crafted the story the way he does and it’s one of the reasons I enjoy watching this.
Finally someone remembers the Finnish civil war!
while also having small populations, the votians and izhorians should also be accounted for when using population estimates.
since votians are so close to estonians linguistically (and considering the pan-finnic sentiments of that time), i could see estonia annex a bit more of the autonomous area where votians historically lived
Izhorians?
@@NotUselessProductions yes. not meant to be confused with ingrian finns. ingrian finns are finnish (savonian actually) immigrants to ingria, whilst izhorians are the more indigenous finnic people of ingria, along with votians
@@dasarath5779 oh I see
We'd probably make the place multiple times better than the russians could, instead of syphoning the area
thanks
Eastory also Estonia has more land on its southern Russian border in the zoomed out map then the zoomed In one
May you please make the video about every empire in late modern history? 😢
You had the Heimosodat happening during the Interwar, where Finland was fighting the USSR using volunteers, either directly or indirectly where volunteers fought for East Karelia, Ingria and Estonia. I feel like a successful Heimosodat would result in a Greater Finland, where all Baltic Finns form a union.
Estonia mentioned💪🇪🇪
Estonia is awesome
Can you make a video of "what if croatia became independent in 1915"
absolutely based
PH, can you make a video about a Palaiologid Byzantium that survives in Southern Italy that eventually conquers much of the peak Roman Empire? I would like it to be over the top, so stuff like early population booms from an agricultural/industrial revolution from discovering the four-crop rotation system early in Flanders with Britain after helping the Dutch secure it in their revolt; discovering the New World alongside Genoa, their allies (Columbus was Genoese), creating a Roman-settled FAR west; and ethnic supremacy from a great population, planting Greek Romans in the former Western Roman Empire, which had lost much of its population in wars and plagues. The great Serbian Migrations into Hungary would include Hellenized Serbs and Greeks too, now, and in greater quantities from the early population booms, eventually securing Pannonia.
It’s over the top
Sounds like a fun Ck3->Eu4->vk3 game
I have a video idea: What if the Kingdom of Dacia survived?
just me or does he often just do whatever idea pops into his head that week/day instead of the planned videos?
Every Modern Empire finally?!
Video idea: What if the Ottoman Empire collapsed in 1912?
Will you do a What if everything goes perfect for japan? (Pls do it)
My great grandfather fought against the soviets in the Winter War
i was WATING for this one
St Petersburg was called Petrograd until 1924
I think it would be much brighter to how you depict it. Sankt Petersburg would have become a free enclave for all opposers of communist rule and a safe heaven for white emigrees, who would have at least a piece of their native land for themselves. They would probably reach some sort of agreement with the Estonians, even though tensions would still occur. Heck, we might even see a surge of repressed peasants and workers escaping from nearby region if Stalin comes to pover and enacts collectivization and Great Terror, and an earlier version of Berlin Wall erected around it.
Nice
Lets go Estonia mentioned
What if Norway and Denmark went to war in 1933?
(Please do a what if everything went perfect for Norway scenario)
I think that in this timeline the Germans would have restored Estonia as an independent nation under their influence during Barbarossa
Or it never comes to that given there are high chances Appeasement ends up less appeasement and more the Allies requiring Germany contributing to supporting efforts to check the looming specter of war with the Soviets, for their land grabs, which potentially butterflies away WW 2 as we know it, since it would put the fascists into a situation, where they can't say no, since communists are supposed to be their enemy too.
I was waiting for this
A topic that i am actually educated in
It’s pretty misleading to say that the population of Petrograd was entirely loyal to the Soviets by the time the Estonian advance had occurred. By this point in the russian civil war, something called the “Bolshevik disillusionment” was occurring, where the Bolsheviks lost a lot of their popularity among the general masses which they once held a large degree of support from - this was due in large part to their authoritarian tendencies. Using only the city of Petrograd as an example, the Bolsheviks barred opposition parties in the local Soviet from running on the grounds of “anti-revolutionary activity,” but it was clear to everyone then that they feared losing the city in local Soviet elections in the same way they lost other cities like Niznhy Novgorod and Rostov. In response to this, the workers of the city organized against the Soviets and were met with harsh repression by local authorities. In the city of Rostov, the local socialist political infighting and Bolshevik repression had been so bad that when the Germans arrived in 1918, they were viewed as being a stabilizing force more than invaders. With the dissolution of opposition parties in the city, which very much had been growing in popularity, it’s likely that many in the city would be apathetic to the Bolshevik’s plight much like how the population of Rostov was when they were met with German soldiers.
I'm suggestion to make a video about what if "the reconcista never happend" i find this senario interessting because it cant lead morocco to discover the americas and becaming a major power for some years that will make an african alternative history video which is very rare
I did this on hoi 4
Pietari is actually Nevanlinna. PERKELE
Also a funny note is that Petersburg was at the time the second largest estonian city.
Suggestion: what if the united nations federalized?
Estonian Lebensraum 🗿
You dont know how happy i was to see this. my calls were heard. ESTONIAN ENLARGMENT!!!!!!!!!!!! GREATER ESTONIAN STATE OORAH OORAH OORAH!!!
Potential goofy scenario idea:what if the neatherlands conqures japan
if russia has made st petersburg into such a big city, i cant even imagine what hard working estonians could have made it. It would have also saved our ingrian brothers 🇫🇮 ❤🇪🇪
Those 5 estonians must be very happy to see todays video
Lol my history teacher uses your vids @Possible History
To be honest Estonia fought for Latvias freedom not for their land.
Honestly that's pretty based of them.