What if the Ottomans Remained Neutral in WW1?
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- #possiblehistory #ph
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As an Australian, the significance of the Ottomans cannot be understated. The country's almost entire focus was on the Ottomans from a variety of fronts, with a lot of British supplies being used over and over again. The Ottomans may not have been a fearsome military to rival that of Britain or Germany, but by simply holding out they made themselves a lightning rod for Entente hostility. The Germans needed all of the help they could get to win the war, and it would have been a fair amount shorter without years of naval and cavalry warfare on the far side of the conflict, not even considering the effect this had on the Russians. Great video as always.
As a Swede, yes
'as an Australian' is pointless
Edit: sry
@@SimonDman'as a Swede'. Why say that?
@@barsukascool Since he said: as an Australian
@@barsukascool the ottomans had imense influence over Australia during the finno korean hyper war tho
1:13 “I like playing Byzantium” 🗿💀
💀💀💀 lmao
Pretty much 90% of this channel's audience
@@gb4206 Unfortunate Byzaboos.
@@genovayork2468you’d be surprised to hear that PH liked the ottomans a lot, during the Berlin conference but the viewers do it vote, he personally wanted the ottomans to gain Egypt
"29 MAY 1453"
Scenario Idea: What if Samo managed to make a clear succession to his empire, ensuring a unified medieval west Slavic realm for centuries to come?
That's a great idea
That's a great idea
That's a great idea
That's a great idea
That's a great idea
Alternatively, there's also the similar scenario of Great Moravia not collapsing
What if everything went perfect for Italy?
I NEED THIS
Need this video
We need this
We need this, so much potential. Amedeo of Savoy could stay on the Spanish throne, Italy could take Tunisia before France, etc.
Oh yes!
Suggestion:
What if the good relations of the USA and Russian empire turned into a full on alliance after the sale of Alaska?
interesting but usa and russia were essentially allies pre ussr
A Russo-American alliance with the US possibly influencing and pressuring the Russian empire to become more liberalized and fairer. I like this too. Personally, I think it always made sense. Since Russia's own one continent, it's gigantic, and the United States is on another, and it's also massive. The United States gets this oceanic base in the Pacific and vice versa.
@@josephstalin839not to mention they didn’t have that many conflicting goals really. Maybe some pacific ambitions overlapped but that’s it. But I don’t see any reason why they would trade naval access, maybe in Alaska but that’s it because the U.S. already dominates a lot of the pacific while Russia has 1-2 significant ports depending on whenever we are talking about on the pacific while the U.S. has anchorage, Juneau, the entire western seaboard, Hawaii, and soon to get the Philippines.
@@josephstalin839countries are akin in some aspects, but the one most important stands high above all - ideological reasons. There woulda’ been too many “ifs” for Russia to converse to a proper constitutional republic from a full on absolute monarchy.
1905 Revolution placed Parliament to restrict ruler’s power, but… it got dissolved a year later, as I recall?.. Anyway, not gonna cut it
Okay, why did he put "What if everything went perfect for South Sudan" on the list before italy?☠️
Cause he’s probably gonna make a video about the youngest modern state than the soft underbelly of Europe
The issue with the Italy idea is that it would spiral out of predictability way too quickly
one is the worst country in the world and the other is south sudan
I don't even like italy that much, is because it's by far the most asked video
Italy is to requested, he is just gonna troll us South Sudan
25 minute video lets go!
It's him
Let’s go indeed
Please do what if muslims captured constantinople in 717.
what’s good bro?
Bulgarian
What if everything went PERFECT for the Ottomans?
Bro is delusional if we knew the realism
@@alisinanucerThe Ottomans were a superpower in the 1500s and could've expanded their influence throughout Europe while adapting. I consider it plausible if the Turks play their cards right, perhaps with a federation.
Vienna and persia would fall into our hands, and maybe Rome because we had desired to conqueror the city, Mehmet the conqueror was probably going to conqueror it if he didnt die, he landed in Italy.
@@alisinanucer bro it's a what if it doesn't need to be realistic the only matters is that it's interesting
The industrial revolution never happens. The downfall of the Ottomans started when the Spanish Armada defeated the Ottoman fleet in the Battle of Lepanto, that and colonization along with advancements in trade which give Europe much more options to trade with leaving the Ottomans with trade dominance.
In short, take out industrialization, colonization, both of which led to the Ottomans loosing major trade influence and military power relative to Europe.
Also the Ottomans are harsher on converting people to Islam and try to assimilate their conquered peoples.
What if Henry the Eighth had a male heir with Catherine of Aragon?
The following will likely happen and potentially cause big changes in Europe:
*No Anglican church
*Weaker ties with Prussia
*Closer ties with Spain
*A likely more united British Isles
@@lynxfresh5214 if the King of France still dies the heir could marry Mary Queen of Scots.
@@lynxfresh5214 Spain didn't exist before 1707. England didn't have ties with Prussia.
@@maxomat4319 So a consolidation of an Anglo-Spanish vs Franco-Scottish alliance.
@@genovayork2468 Uh, then who sent Columbus to the Americas in the 1490s if it wasn't Isabella, Queen of Spain?
It's amazing how much of history is empire and nation fighting a war that they would have been far better off avoiding.
To be fair, this probably applies to literally all war (except possibly eg to liberate extremely oppressed people (eg jews in nazi germany), etc)
That’s just imperialism for you lol
As a Turk interested in history, I can guarantee it to you that we wouldn't be better off without a war. It is not mentioned always that just because of the humiliating defeat we got after WW1, we had more reasons to have an independence war. We probably would have gotten a more methodical dissolution of Ottoman Empire had we have not joined the war, since we would literally have no one to back us up. The faster and less methodical dissolution of rhe empire resulted in the public being more proactive in wanting to be more sovereign. Therefore, I think that WW1 brought us a lot of casualties which might have set the country back a lot, but we have at least gained a chance for total independence. Had we have not joined the war and eventually dissolved methodically, I highly doubt the general public would have had the urge to fight for independence.
Scenario idea: What if the Chetniks won in Yugoslavia?
Mass Sbrenica
Pretty much Impossible
Yeah lets not do that...
Bad shit, that's what
Why would you want that?
What if Ea-Nasir became King of Sumeria?
Copper scammer uguyaheee
He'd take all the copper
Sumeria becomes the first corporatist state, under which Ea-Nasir’s copper company becomes a monopoly and through their influence over the government they prevent the start of the Iron Age.
@@lordedmundblackadder9321 Wouldn't it bring forward the start of the Iron Age? If all available copper was Ea-Nasir's, it would be such poor quality that people would desperately seek an alternative...
I really really like this new editing style in videos! It makes things more clearer while also having some jokes sprinkled in.
Yeah this is really cool!
Agreed.
Yeah I loved the tiny bits of music when showing the German ship and when PH was discussing how the collapse of the Russian Empire was delayed
0:24 The capital of Russia back then was St. Petersburg
Ok Let’s kiss
English or Spanish
@@TwosidedytSpanish 😂
Gay
I subbed when this dude was at like 170 something subs, whatta guy to bring it this far, great to see how far you have come.
I saw him when he had less than 100 subs. Still not subbed.
good for you bubba
good for you
And he still can't edit properly.
@@lempereurcremeux3493 bubba the guy does just fine, this ain''t a documentary
This video was basically “The war wasnt as bad” for most of its length until you brought up the fact that the genocide would be far, far worse
Suggestion: What if everything went perfectly For Napoleón III starting when he became Emperor?
So you are saying that the USSR exists because the Ottomans joined the central powers?
Yup, pretty much.
damn, yet another Turkish L
@@manwithoutahorse thanks for the confirmation, we Turks will be cautious in the upcoming war against Russia to not have them become something cringe again.
@lordedmundblackadder9321 it is an L, but we Turks don't have many L's in warfare. As weird as it sounds, we Turks won half of the 12 Russo-turkish wars(1571, 1681, 1711, 1739, 1856, and 1918).
@@AbubekirYalcin14 Best time is now, Turkiye is young while pigstan is old and embroiled in war with Ukraine
What if the Ottoman Empire colapse in the Oriental Crisis? In the war with Egypt I mean
i think 1877-1878 war with russia would be more realistic choice
@@manwithoutahorse Well, the Ottoman Empire was so desperate that it asked for help from Russia, its greatest enemy, so I think that without any external help the Ottomans would have lost much of their control over the Levant and Mesopotamia, as well as authority over the Kurdish regions.
@@lucius_fox9393 i mean as fierce as the war was, Muhammad Ali of Egypt was still a subject of of the Sultan, we can see this in his act after the war. Even without foreign intervention i don't think Egypt would gain anything more, maybe they would be completely independent which was defacto true in their Khedivate title and a bit of Levant too but I don't think this would end the Ottomans on the contrary would benefit their economy in the long run.
You gotta do "what if everything went perfect for the ottomans ?"
There are a bunch of videos for that on UA-cam already
@@heenthousiast383none of them are good
@@Pipripfat its really not gonna be much different, its just gonna be "oh wow the ottomans didnt lose and have a bunch of land and stuff now"
the opening shot made me thing this was an emperortigetstar video lol
8:22 what if every thing went perfect for South Sudan? Now that’s a video I can’t wait to see even if takes month like umm…… every modern empire
or everything perfect entente...
Nice work with the music and the sound effects.
An actual Greek civil war might happen here, with the monarchists fully joining the central powers instead of wanting to stay neutral and eventually giving up
i really liked this, the editing has improved a lot compared to older videos
Loved the editing and music for this video, felt very engaging! Looking forward to more of this style.
Thanks For this! Never miss a video! Love your maps! They keep getting better!
Maps...
I love how much your maps and videos have improved
Okay, that smooth camera movement is something I've never seen here, but I love it!
PART 2 WITH A SCENARIO WHERE THE OTTOMANS BECOME AN OIL EMPIRE
YES PLEASE
If Gallipoli had never happened then the slaughter of ANZAC troops would never had happened. Several things occurred because of this usage of colonial troops by the British. One of them was that ANZAC troops were allowed to have their own generals, these generals were treated with more respect and lenience than most other generals. This meant that requests made by these generals would be far more likely to considered and approved than other generals even if the requests they made were against certain rules or objectives. One famous incident of a request that should've been denied but wasn't was in WW2, when New Zealand general Sir Bernard Freyberg requested that the Abbey at Monte Cassino be bombed because recon had falsely reported that there were Germans inside. This request went against specific orders to not damage important Italian works but it was approved anyway because Sir Bernard Freyberg was leading a colonial force.
TL;DR: If the Ottomans remained neutral, the Abbey of Monte Cassino would still be the original structure. The butterfly effect is a crazy thing.
I think that in this world the ottomans would have to walk a very tight rope not to anger the entente, so maybe their attacks against minorities would be somewhat mitigated. The entente may be occupied, but I wouldn't rule out them pressuring constantly the ottomans to keep in line. Also, as a little sidenote, it's a shame you didn't mention how this scenario affects zionism. It would be far more difficult to create a jewish state under ottoman rule, but the zionist movement was already getting pretty strong, and I wouldn't discard the British pressuring the ottomans to stablish some sort of autonomous state. Maybe even the French do the same with the Lebanese christians. Overall, I think that once the war is over, the entente would go back to pressure the ottomans, and they wouldn't really have all that much freedom to push for turkification.
the ottomans were already allowing massive jewish settlement. they wanted the educated jews.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 yes, but I highly doubt they would let them have any sort of autonomy without outside pressure. It's one thing to receive highly qualified immigrants that add value to the land. It's very different to abandon your own power in favour of those immigrants, especially when this puts the people of your own religion at a disadvantage.
Problem with this scenario is if the Ottomans to stay neutral, there shouldn't be a triumvirate dicatorship in the government but a democratic parliamentery which there was before this three idiots took power.
So without three pashas there wouldn't be major problems with minorities because these atrocities were their brainchild.
I don't think Brits would let Ottomans control their own oil, like they did in Iran and in future we would have a delayed Arab Revolt and maybe even a proxy war in the oil lands.
@@oihanlarranegi472 Giving away Jerusalem would serve a death blow to the Caliph title. So all of Palestine as Israel would have to be taken from Enver's cold, dead hands at the cost of millions of dead Brits or French. I can imagine a scenario where Enver makes the British and French help in conquering Turan in exchange for Israel but I doubt they would accept that either.
Video idea: What if the Ottoman Empire collapsed in 1912?
Peter Griffin: Boy this is worse than the time I became sultan of the Ottoman Empire…
I doubt the Ottomans would actively commit genocide while at peace. They could go the medium to long term goal of assimilation, kinda how the Germans, French, and Russians (although they did commit the 70 year circassian genocides killing up to 4million)
Its not a genocide it was a relocations but there was war , famine and disaeses at that time ,for turks its either us or them situation cause armenians work with russian army and killing turkish backlines
"What If The UK And US United After WW2?"
I'm sorry, what what now?
united anglo-sphere lets go
literally 1984
Suggestion: What if everything went perfect for Romania?
I like that first Russian scenario with a constitutional establishment most. A serious Anglo-German rapprochement after WW1 against the wishes of Russia and France is rather interesting. Assuming, of course, that the ex-painter doesn't take power in Germany, which I feel would be thankfully unlikely after this far more moderate Versailles treaty.
man, im so happy to see your channel really take off
This is a great channel! Keep up the good work!
What if everything went perfect for the Ottoman Empire
I'm an australian, and I don't think it can really go much without saying just how much this would affect australian history as well. Without the disasterous campeign, pushes for self-sovereignty would be weaker here, as one of the key things that made us begin to distance ourselves with britain was realising they saw our men as _nothing_ but expendable soldiers they could throw at unwinnable battles. This would directly lead to the rise of australian nationalism and contribute to the rise of a significant fascist minority in our state during the 1930s. With this altered, the pushes for australian statehood would likely emerge sometime after an alternate second world war if japan was our enemy, since if that was the case we'd likely see something like the Burma Road or Singapore to further make use feel disdain towards britain. All-in-all, without Gallipoli, it's perfectly reasonable to expect australian dominion status to continue into the 70 or 80s.
Scenario idea: what if Gallipoli succeeded and Britain secured the Dardanelles
"Actually, I was totally wrong about the reason I gave for why Russia would never catch up with the West last time, but I have discovered a newer and better reason why they wouldn't. Special discount on offer!"
please keep adding the minecraft icons when making these videos lol
I was looking for a video like this for days. Just last week I created my own scenario surrounding this concept. Glad to see you create one.
I find the new editing style a little odd but definitely interesting. Gives a bit more humor to the videos and some of the new editing gives better visualization to the military strategy side of the conflicts.
I like maps
I have enjoyed Possible History, especially the viewer votes, but the newer style is bordering on "brainrot".
@@Cannon530YTYeah I'm really not a fan of it at all
I would love to see a second part. Great video 👍
the fact that youre using memes more frequently now is killing me,great job! keep up the great work
why do you like memes? small question.
7:16 amogus
Not funny
When the Ottomans are sus 😳
Wait isnt Ottomans actually tried to join entente but it got rejected by britain? Thats kinda the reason why Ottomans military bombed russia and put the empire to war by force because there was a great fear of britain turning its eyes to ottomans after finishing germany... Ottomans at least had a chance to survive in war.
Britain supporting rebels against Ottomans kinda proves this. They wanted middle eastern oil fields. THEY NEEDED middle east oil fields...
they wants it… THEY NEEDS IT 😂
Yeah and also russia bringed their troops to eastern boarder when Ottomans asked for guarante they reject it there were not a way to get way from this war
@@user-ih5uk1tj3u I mean they really needed it because of new diesel engines. The oil was new gold :P all new machines was working with it
Enver Pasha was the one that wanted to join the central powers
i'm happy. I need video about "If italy win first italo-ethiopian war"
Scenario idea: What if everything went perfect for the UK?
It pretty much did already
Damn I love the zooming in the video it makes everything seem very contiguous not choppy like the cutting between places before
God damn you have reached new heights with this editing style. Keep it up.
The awkward pauses now and then in videos are funny
This is one of your best videos, i really enjoyed it, keep them up.
I am a little disappointed with the scenarios. For one, if the central powers would be unable to recruit the ottomans, they would probably get Italy to join them through large concessions (austria ceding adratic coast & promising tunisia, corsica, and french land across the alps) because they would be desperate. From there, they would be able to recruit bulgaria also, and maybe even get to keep romania and greece at the very least neutral through supporting/appealing to the respective pro-german factions. From there, they could put diplomatic pressure on the ottomans to join their side, or at the very least pressure them to restrict trade through the straits. Basically, an ottoman neutrality would have resulted in a more desperate central powers that is more likely to make diplomatic deals/concessions their neighbours. This is a likely scenario, and I would have loved to see this being explored.
Also, nazi ottoman empire scenario is extremely unlikely, as the empire would have collapsed before it could ever happen. The turks were very much a minority in the empire. Not to mention that the more radical ideas would be kept in check by more liberal counter movements, especially since neutrality would have resulted in better economic conditions and standard of living. Such an extreme geno.cide scenario requires extreme turmoil and years of indoctrination (as evident by post ww1 germany), where a large portion of the population would participate/enable such malice or at the very least remain silent/complacent to it. In the event that the people fail to prevent such malice to rise, then the entente would certainly have intervened as they would have had such an advantage over the central powers, and could recruit the help of the greeks, bulgars, or even persians to support the various ethnicities that are being mistreated. Basically, this part of the video essay is most unrealistic, and, if not outright biased/xenophobic, it is most certainly ignorant. The ottoman state at the time was not evil, just incompetent, which allowed evil people to rise to prominence (pashas). But even they were kept in check (to some extant) by those groups/individuals that were more caring.
Circassian Genocide and Genocide of the Balkanian Muslims primed the Ottoman state/population for a genocidal paranoia and pretty much sealed the fate of Christians in Anatolia and Ottoman middle east. With the loss of European holdings, Turks became a majority in the Empire that decided it had no place for non-Muslims, while the office of the Caliph would keep Muslim non-Turks like Kurds and Arabs in line.
The discovery of oil would turn the Ottoman state into an industrial powerhouse backed by endless stream of oil money. Sadly warcrimes do pay off, be it the genocidal extermination of Native Americans by the Anglos or Russian planned starvations of Tatars.
@@amarjamakovic1297
I would think that the discovery of oil would add a greater incentive for surrounding powers to carve the ottoman empire while they are still weak, poor, and divided before geno.cide could happen. Would greece, bulgaria, russia, france, britain, or italy stand idly by when they have an opportunity to expand their empire and win the hearts of the local christians to rule over them more easily thereafter? I dont think so. Even if some of these nations become war weary bc of ww1, i dont think theyd miss an opportunity like this.
If it were to happen during ww1, i dont think entente intervention is unlikely either. In that scenario, the central powers would welcome the distraction, but i find it hard for them to justify an alliance with a pariah state.
Also im unsure just how much muslim ottomans would react to the geno.cide of people they lived next to for hundred of years and how strong it would be, and maybe this is the optimist and humanist in me, but i think a lot would resist as not all would share the same paranoia.
Regardless, i dont think that the ottomans would get away with it (as they did in this video). At least i hope not.
Great video I couldn't give a thumbs up because UA-cam removed its thumbs-up
I like the addition of memes to the video (or if they've been there already then the higher frequency of them), it's a little weird at first but definitely enjoy it
Amazing video! Love your channel!
What do you think of what if everything went perfect for Indonesia?
I really like the new memes/effects added to the video !
The editing is getting really polished, kept up!
subscribed, liked! what a epic video! thank you for making this masterpiece!
Thank You So Much For Always Having Great Videos And Never Missing A Single One, Youre One Of My Favourite Content Creators, Youre Single Handedly Saving Alternate History Community
Turks would still deny those crimes 😂
Love your videos!!!!
"What if John Brown was President" We NEED this, please! Also, amazing memes. This was, as usual, a great video.
Gigachad Brown would destroy Slavery
The new editing style tried out in this video is interesting, but I still kinda prefer the older more simplistic style. This style in comparison to the old style feels almost over edited, and there was a lot of power that the older, simpler editing style had that feels lost with the injection of extra editing and memes/jokes. The jokes work, and they likely landed well with a lot of people, but they feel a little out of place compared to the tone of the video as a whole. However, none of this is to say the video is bad by any stretch of the imagination. It is a very high quality video with a fascinating premise, and I absolutely love the work you do man! Keep it up, you rock!
After a long time I have enjoyed your video ❤
I love the new editing style. The footage combined with the mapping and memes is perfect
Video Idea: What if Gallipoli Succeded
Yuo are my favorite youtuber
@@thetoscunymapper Early Ottoman capitulation, Allies help Russia, no Bolshevik revolt in the short run, lighter sanctions on Ottomans by allies, better manpower and mindpower for Ottos with less casualties and with CUP gone, many minority revolts could have been prevented so more stability for Ottomans.
No communists so millions of people live, Germans prob early capitulate too same as this video.
Middle eastern oils prob would be under British control as in Iran, Brits would have a much higher stability and continue their global domination and USA wouldn't enter the war and prob get fewer benefits off of it.
@@manwithoutahorse thank yuo
@@thetoscunymapper🧐🤨
What if everything went perfect for Scotland?
i love this new editing
What If China and Japan were neutral in WW2 🇨🇳🇯🇵
What if everything went perfectly for the Ottomans, or what if the Ottomans managed to modernise? I feel like the second one is more interesting, as it has a more focused time line.
I love the new video style
Nice finally a good video
22:10 “The tsar could lose power to a revolution that removes him from power” those certainly are words
Idea for a longer scenario:
What if everything went perfect for the Axis. Like for example Germany takes Britian over and Japan deafets China. But ultimatly they still lose to the Allies
Love your content🎉🎉🎉
Nice editing dude!
The memes really make the watching experience a lot better bro
Honestly, i love the editing style of this video. I'm only half way through the video and i already like the style it's going for! Really like your videos possible history.
a ph video with the ottomans in where they dont immediately die, suprising. also the new editing style with memes is very intresting
Very nice video, good job👍
Can you please do a "what if 1953 iranian coup d'état failed" video. It is a very important part of iran modern history, and most people doesn't even know about this event
I very appreciate if you do this video😊
wow your editing is improved a lot!
Decline and collapse of the Ottoman Empire was dramatic and tragedic but it had to happen in some point. And it was inevitable.
Do a video on Texas remaining Independent plz!
8:12 was very funny and subverted my expectations
Cool! I liked your use of memes here, it helped get across the ideas you were trying to communicate. Also, a What if Everything Went Perfect for South Sudan video sounds pretty cool!👍
Damn I was looking this up just yesterday
I think instead of making more scenarios you should make continuations of your other videos like for example I would really like to see a pt 3 for what if everything went perfect for the central powers. Also 14:15 I think a what if everything went perfect for the entente would be really boring because they won the war anyways
Nice I could added this to my personal otto Turkish Federation lore. Keep up the good work. BTW what if everything went perfect for Yugoslavia
Idea for a video - "What If Bulgaria captured Constantinople during the 1st Balkan War"
One of your best videos yet. WW1 is one of the great turning points of history and Turkey vs Russia one of the great rivalries, especially when it comes to who the west chooses to support.
Somehow the west has always chosen Turkey; which I personally think was always the wrong choice, except when Russia was communist. Coincidentally both are occupying neighbouring countries today.
The general idea was to keep Russia out of the Mediterranean and prevent them getting a Black Sea monopoly via taking the straits. This growing and modernizing and ambitious Russian Empire was a far more pressing bugbear for the west than anything the 19th century Ottoman state could put out.
It was impossible, few countries in the entente were already planning to separate and invade the Ottomans anyway.
Ottoman empire: doesn't join ww1
Russia: collapsing
When in Possible History's domain, remember the cardinal rule:
POD: exists
Russia: no Ws
Totally not biased at all.
Britain and France shocked that the Ottomans joined the central powers (everyone else saw it coming)
Suggestion:
What if the Warsaw uprising succeeded leading to more pressure for the pre-war polish government to return possibly leading to a pro west Poland or neutral Poland in the Cold War?
What if the Hussites won the Hussite Wars?
they already won
@@podcastler No, they did not. I know the history of my country, and they lost.
they won@@pejsek204
@@pejsek204average hungarian nationalist
@@pejsek204yes and no, cause hussites split up and 1 win and other lost. Then the king Zikmund Lucemburský created a contract Basilejská kompaktáta that allowed to be Hussie
This is fire