Alfa romeo 159 Brera front subframe removal guide
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- Опубліковано 31 жов 2019
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thanks Neil at Italia Autos. - Авто та транспорт
Woa, great job Man, greetings form Poland ;>
For anyone considering doing this job without a vehicle lift...I watched this video a couple of times and I took my Brera subframe off this morning in 5 hours, just me, on my back working on the drive with axle stands and basic hand tools.
This happens with so called "closed profiles". These are ideal to catch moisture, water, debris, salt, etc. Construction of this sort have hard time to dry up or it never does. Best solutions are made so that they dont work like a trap. For instance if a U-channel profile can be used for something it is far better solution than an ordinary (closed) pipe. Corrosion starts from the inside and works it way to the outside.
Thanks for a great video!
Awesome vid! Glad you did this as its my next job! Thanks!
Great, thank you, just discovered a new “through hole” on my Brera subframe, on my to do list :) Seasons greetings!
You make that look so easy and im sure it ain't.. hats off to ya..👍
Welcome back Noel, missed your vids 👍🙂🇦🇺
great job mate, thanks!
Great video man!
The usual brilliant tutorial Ian. Man that was eaten by rust. Cheers from OZ
bellissimo lavoro complimenti sei molto bravo
Great video good editing and very informative thanks
Thank you.
Thank you for this video.
Super job. Amazing what you manage to do working alone!
Thank you!
Thanks again Neil for a super useful video. If you have a 159 you will need to attend to this sooner or later. The E-learn manual makes it sound like rocket science and requires you to make a special frame to remove it, which clearly, is not necessary.
Thanks this is awesome! Great vid keep it up
Thanks.
You make it look so easy... :)
not a fun one to do without the help of a handy forklift.
VERY GOOD JOB...
PERFECT...
Nice job amigo. 👍
Like this channel, seems like a very nice man, good bloke !
I'm coming back to the UK after 21, lost my dogs, the love of my life and my job and just about everything else in-between, and the only thing I've got to look forward to coming back is finally being able to buy myself my own Alfa Romeo 159 or Brera and the thought of Uber eats and door dash 😆😆 in it while playing my switch in one hand and my gear stick in the other in my down time !
We've all got dreams 😊😊
Hope life gets better for you.
It’s good the croma doesn’t suffer from the same problem mine is like new and it’s a 05
great tutorial :) good job :)
thanks.
Great work
thanks
Excellent - thank you!
thanks for watching.
Great job, I did the same on my 159 2.4 but unfortunately without a car lift, your videos are always good guides thanks...grazie è sempre un piacere guardare i tuoi video professionali e dettagliati 🖒
Thanks for watching.
Congratulations! Excellent video! I hope I've got a car elevator like yours (and place to put it) can you make more videos fixing, repairing and replacing parts with simple manual tools? Thanks again!
Great video, but safe to say I won't be doing that in a hurry. Ramp an absolute must I would say for that.
It’s possible without but I wouldn’t fancy it either.
I've made mine by garage(i've just prépare pareil part at my own) this year in 159 sw 1.9 from 2007, it was not so badly as that one .
Count minimum 500€for a Newton part in good condition and all paint job( i've used RUSTOL CIP 2.5L and after high temp resist paint(for max600°))
I counted arround 1000 euro for all with garage job.
Thank you so much :-D
Interesting channel. You should consider wearing eye protection - especially when dealing with flying rusty debris.
always one goody two shoes to sicken everyone's day
We've got NHS no problems !
My 159 Q4 is going in for an MOT on Tuesday (6th May 2021) and I'm positive it'll fail on the front subframe, replacements are stupidly expensive but your guide has helped to reassure me that fitting one isn't too bad...thanks :)
Good luck
wow that is what I call rot !! Don’t see it down in Australia, is the scope similar for the 3.2 ?
great video, thanks so much.
Went ahead and dropped the sub frame regardless, basically the same except for the lower engine mounts which were very awkward to access, thanks for the video great help
Brilliant detailed Video - Masterclass !
So, the big question is; With a Brand New (not refurbished) Subframe installation, how much would it cost from start to finish ?
This is asuming there are no hidden 'nasties' related to the removal of the old, rotton Subframe.
And finally, while the new Subframe Assembly is being rebuilt prior to Installation, is it good practice to renew any/all bushes on the Wishbone Assembly (if they can be replaced that is) ?
Thanks and l wait with interest for your reply.
5:07 was waiting for that answer. Engine support
TOP!!!!
Very good guide!
Can you do anti-roll bar bushes replacement guide for 156 and 159?
i take requests on patreon. head over to www.patreon.com/italiaautos thanks
Taking a subframe out is relatively easy with the correct tools and lifts. Disconnect suspension bits, remove bolts and drop gingerly. Just be careful not to shear any bolts
Great video chap. Watched this twice this morning and then went to tackle it on the driveway. It was going quite well, but then the 2 big torx bolts at front, both sides, the captive nut has come loose inside the chassis leg. I'd say apart from that doesn't seem a really bad job.
Yeah that's a nightmare if that happens
.
Tbh, I got this car for basically nothing. This might be it's doom. But I'll have a sit and calm down first before I just scrap it 😂
Everything else came off fine, just the rack bolts that are a bit tricky (and bloody tight!).
All in I'd say any competent DIY mechanic could do this easy so if your daunted don't be, just crack on and work safe.
@@blu73 you need to cut hole in leg.to.access the.top.of the.bolt
Yes I thought when it happened it looks doable.. it's more a it's become a bigger job on a car that's so far not cost anything and finding the time between all the normal life stuff.
Don't get me wrong, it's a lovely car, it's actually 3rd time I've owned it. But I already had 2 cars and the toy car in garage when I got this so not got much space as a result. It's been shall we say donated back to me as a non runner, few people had looked at it, they'd tried changing injectors etc but I knew from what I was told it had most likely eaten swirl flaps, which is confirmed, 2and half flaps to be precise.
So to fix this "free" car that I don't really need but would nonetheless quite like to keep, I'm a replacement engine, probably new flywheel and clutch band associated parts as the cars done fair few miles and that's all original, I'd probably get a new turbo cartridge as there's a little play, plus all the service stuff to build back up, belts, etc etc. Starting to get expensive for a car I never planned to get.
But I'll sleep on it, won't have chance to touch it for at least another week so I dunno which way I'll go, but it's only sensible to consider breaking and scrapping. Tis nice car, full ti spec sportwagon with tan interior etc.
So it's more a choice of can I afford to spend the time and money and have the car or actually make a little bit and scrap what's left?? Decisions decisions
Just FYI, subframes off now without cutting any holes in car 👌 and it looks totally fine to be cleaned up too. Yes it's taken me a month 🤣
Top video Neil- please can you kindly advise is the subframe the same template for both the petrol & diesel.
As my petrol gts one needs doing & found an available diesel one available locally. Your experienced assistance would be most appreciated.
Yes
Does the subframe has to come off to be able to remove the engine and gearbox?
I haven't owned al Alfa in over 7 years, but I love watching your videos (and browsing trough the classifieds afterwards). One thing thou: is the replacement subframe powdercoated? If not, wouldn't that be a better option? Just curious.
Personally think powder coating chips very easily.
Bloody Alfa’s! The only reason I haven’t pulled the trigger on a Brera or 159 is because of the subframe issue...and the fact they are GM based, which kind of puts me off....
Nice LE in the background, had eight of those Coupes including an LE and a Plus. Thought I’d try to rekindle my love for them and bought a 1 owner Sprint blue turbo with 77k 3 weeks ago...love wasn’t there so I sold it on, probably one to keep mind as it was literally brand new!
If only I could find a 1 owner 145 QV with no rust loo
rezaq1 What infuriates me is not only do they make so many parts substandard they then have the audacity to charge crazy money for the replacement junk. The mind boggles to how many customers they’ve lost through this policy. Alfa parts which are basically Fiat should cost 30% of what they charge. They might actually keep some customers then! Crazy.
Great Video! Is it the same for the 939 Spider?
Thanks again
yes
weightgain 3 kg , stengthgain 160 percent, perfect job 100 percent
The problem lies more in the lack of protection by the cheap paint. This problem has existed for years as Some of the lancia subframe tended to rot even worse.
Very helpful. Can that be done on axle stands or only with the clearance a lift provides?
NOT EASY BUT POSSIBLE
very helpful video, thanks . but please omit the annoying music
It's an old video. I use music a little better now.
Invaluable video Neil, many thanks. I got everything removed yesterday save for the main bolts holding the subframe to the chassis - ready to drop down today. This was a great help.
Question - do you support the radiator at all? Just don't want to end up all wet if it decides to fall on me!
You can able tie it up but it should be ok
@@ItaliaAutos Aces, thank you!
Ratchet strap around the top brace worked a charm, it's on the deck now. Many thanks again Neil!
Thanks for the vid. One thing I'm still not sure of is the reason for the subframe rot- water sitting against them from the outside, or getting inside and causing the damage from there. Seriously considering getting a 159, and wondering how best to prevent the problem. Coating the outside obviously, but the inside as well maybe? Cheers
Starts on the outside. But no harm in waxoilingn the inside
Thanks for that, much appreciated:)@@ItaliaAutos
Is it still possible in 2023 to find a spare subframe in goog condition?
Do you have a video on removing the q2 diff?
I’ve got one installing one on one of my gtv Resto episodes.
I tried to remove today and it is not as easy as a though. 2 front bolt i cant remove, they are spinning in place. I removed front bomper and window washing water tank. And behind this throu a hole i see spinning the nut :D tomorrow will be continued...
Good thing ye olde 156 rear subframe is cast aluminum :)
early ones are steel.
Brilliant videos...How much is a brand new subframe or can they be got?
some listed on ebay last time i looked.
I have a 159 the rear window is snapping the cable, do you know where is the stop relay for the widow electric motor?
Ecu controlled
Thank you It’s only the N/S rear window that brakes the cable the rest of the window work well,
Does the ECU controller control each window Separate? And where is it located please, the car was sitting for 3 years with no battery
All the best
Neil, I have a 61 plate TI that visually looks awful with surface rust. Was this issue ever identified and rectified on later models?
gaffnaldo1 after 2011, with new 1750 TBi engines?
@@rvcasa sadly not, it's the diesel which at 130k miles..... Still feels new and tight. The engine that is 🤣
Is the procedure different on the Brera Q4 3.2?
Similar
Hi, Whats the best way to do preventative rust removal from the underside of a car and are there any products you recommend?
grinder with a wire brush attachment
Italia Autos Thanks. Stay safe.
I'm removing my Brera Q4 front subframe for blast and powder coat. Even though I'm an experienced mechanic with a full set of tools I followed your video and it's actually really helpful, especially the tips for spanners instead of female torx sockets. I found my torx socket too tall for the steering rack and used the 16mm spanner. The nearside released but the offside bent the spanner like a banana. The alternator prevents me getting a socket on the steering rack bolt and it's so tight it's bending my spanners! I found all the bolts incredibly tight, and one of the lower ball joints so tight it broke my ball joint splitter!
I'm still stuck with the steering rack bolt and am waiting for a heavy duty replacement spanner arriving. I tried heating the boss on the underside of the subframe that the bolt screws into, penetrating oil, you name it. Any tips for the stubborn offside rack bolt? At this point I'm contemplating cutting off the head which I really don't want to do!
It's the hardest bolt to do on the q4. Tempting to cut off and use a threaded rod with nuts 9n each end for when you Refit.
@@ItaliaAutos The issue I'm having is because of the limited space the correct E20 socket is impossible to use. This means an E20 or M16 spanner is the only tool that fits, but in the limited space the spanner bends without turning the bolt. There's too much spring in the spanner and not enough rotation space available. The answer I found was an E20 'slogging' spanner which has no spring at all and a long ratchet with the square drive fitted to the square drive hole in the spanner. This gets it cracked off then your 16mm spanner technique finishes it off. I don't understand why it wasn't designed with the thread in the rack, not the sunframe!
How many km on the clock?
Is the subframe the same for all engines? I have a tbi and i will change it do i need to look specificly for a tbi subframe?
Apart from q4 version
Great video! What is your view on using the car, without that terrible undertrey ?
Take it off and leave it off. ;-)
What's the benefits of it off?
@@gaffnaldo1 water doesn't sit against the subframe making it got.
Agree great video! Neil, your a grafter, actions always speak loader ;).
Looking at replacing my worn out awful under tray (but when re-fitting - thinking of spacing it away/ from the sub-frame using 10mm stainless steel nuts? just to keep that long-term driving protection./ ramped from front maybe? Would you recommend this rather than leaving it exposed to the driving elements long-term,? with our uk weather... would appreciate your experienced opinion on this, kind regards Paul
Hey Neil how are you , are the subframe for 1.9 JTDM and 2.4 JTDM same ?
Good thanks yes they are
I didn't like the music too much except for the one at 10:45 it was great and appeasing.
Long video so had to mix it up a bit.
Hello, been following your videos for a while :)
I own 1x159 2.2 JTS, 1x159 2.4 JTDM, 1x MiTo, 1x Spider 916 2.0 TS Lusso Edition :)
Now I have a question for you regarding this video :)
I also have to replace this carrier on my 159 2.2 JTS.
Did you somehow additionally support the engine or simply unscrew the old support? I'm afraid that the engine will drop down a bit and then I won't be able to mount the carrier!!
Would be great if you could answer my question. :)
Greetings from Austria :)
It will be left on the 2 main mounts
@@ItaliaAutos Thank you for your information :)
Are all 159 front subframes the same? Looking to replace one on my 2.0 ti.
Yeah.
@@ItaliaAutos Thanks very much
How come this 159 doesn't have the 4 pot calipers?
It's 2.2 jts.
Niel...I'm trying to lose my lockdown belly but the ads are all for food!😅
Nothing to do with me mate. You must be googling food a lot. Haha
@@ItaliaAutos 😅damn search history!..rumbled😅
Whats the sort of cost for this work on a non exchange basis? (159 1.9 sportwagon).
it all depends on what i need to pay for a used subframe. if you want a proper quote please email me
Did that car live in the water!?
Can you do this for a 916 GTV
you can and its a lot easier
@@ItaliaAutos Thanks looking forward to seeing it.
did you need to support the radiator?
Not really as it well supported. But you can if you want.
@@ItaliaAutos I supported radiator with cable ties at the top as advised by Alfaworkshop guide. Cars has been up on stands for a couple of days.Was working under it today. Cable ties snapped and the radiator fell down about 4 inches, broke a couple of pipe clips but doesn't look like there is serious damage. I lifted it back up and secured with bungees. Radiator only appears to be supported by the two lower radiator brackets on the subframe. I'm doing the clutch/dmf/csc, finally got the gearbox off today. I don't need to but it looks like it would be pretty easy to change the radiator with the subframe off.
Good Job! But a pig to do pfff 💪👍
easy with a ramp
@@ItaliaAutos thats wy I Hamerite the hole underside of my New 147 2.0 😉💪👍
How much would you charge for an exchange replace ?
I've got no spare subframes left now. I'd have to see yours and refurbish that if possible
@@ItaliaAutos Thanks for the reply, I just bought a Brera online which has turned up with a bunch of undisclosed issues i'm looking to get sorted, I just moved away from your area but might be worth bringing it down for a few jobs; Clutch, DMF, timing chain...
how much does the subframe weigh?
Got to be 25kilos plus
@@ItaliaAutos ah, no so much then!. I'm preparing for when the times comes an alfa 159 clutch change.
Looks like my alfasud 1992. rusty lower wishbones and front subframe.
Wow! Was this car parked daily with its nose into the North Sea, or what?
I've never seen a subframe this rotten! Alfa or any other brand.
My 06 Brera last year started to develop a rust spot on it's subframe which had to be repaired. I then got the whole subframe replaced for a like new looking refurbished one. It was like an exchange programme as my subframe was in a pretty good nick too apart from that small rust repair job but if I had left it alone, I was afraid it would have rotten away. It's possibly the most important job on the Alfa to keep the subframe in good nick as replacements (especially good ones which haven't rotted away themselves) are difficult to come by and your car is scrap without a good subframe!
That's good but it I can't see anyone doing this on their drive way or on the side of the road. It's a workshop job.
its possible but you def need to people and a couple of jacks plus a whole day.
My was rusted too, but i put metal primer gray paint for protect rust, so i dont know how long it will protecting ,see photos
imgur.com/a/Dze86Uo
Great job
gaffnaldo1
Rust will come back:)
That’s nothing you should see mine I have holes everywhere
I orderd mine from Italy the dealer wanted 1300€ brand new so with 200€ and 100€ shiping all done
Well if that wasn't enough evidence to rid me of my Alfa 159 owning aspirations then I don't know what is !!! what appalling piles of Sh## they really are, subframes rotting almost in half in 2021 no thankyou.