Timecodes for the larger points being made: (If anyone has suggestions for additional timecodes, feel free to suggest them!) 0:00 - Intro 17:51 - Vault 101/First area you play in/First thing the game tutorializes is most important/New Vegas starts off with the Gecko Hunt, "skill checks only come in quite a bit down the line" 54:33 - Megaton 1:35:04 - Power of the Atom 2:00:20 - Dealing with Moriarty and Silver, Choice in Fallout 3 2:09:40 - "The vast majority of Fallout 3's quests have choice!"/Little Lamplight/IndigoGaming being taken out of context 2:39:23 - The part where Many A True Nerd takes IndigoGaming's quote and applies it to an entirely different part of the game in order to debunk it 2:48:47 - Return to Megaton 3:00:07 - Super Mutants 3:23:03 - The Brotherhood of Steel 3:41:47 - "You see, disliking Fallout 3 is a game with some crazy rules, like it's totally okay to criticize Fallout 3 for doing something that Fallout New Vegas did and then just politely pretend New Vegas is invisible for a minute." 3:50:21 - "At least Autumn showed up! Lanius is just some guy!" 4:32:01 - Fallout 3's ending 4:49:59 - A tangent completely unrelated to the quality of Fallout 3 about the supposed lack of dungeons in New Vegas 5:10:55 - The story/Jon makes a snide comment about angry comments again 5:43:37 - Jon takes Hbomberguy out of context and strawmans him 6:17:13 - Fallout 3's main story: Not enough solutions, Not enough consequences, Morally Uninteresting 7:32:24 - "New Vegas has too many optimal solutions" 7:42:05 - "Fallout 3 shows off the horror of the post-apocalypse, the previous only had encounters relevant to the current world!" 7:50:12 - The terrible shooting is good, because you're an inexperienced teenager
Timecodes for pretty much every point in the video: 0:00 - Intro 6:45 - Start of MATN's video 17:51 - First area you play in/First thing the game tutorializes is most important 25:07 - "New Vegas started you off with the gecko hunt, skill checks come in quite a bit down the line." 28:34 - "No freedom, no choice, no skill check resolutions, no opportunity for roleplay" 32:34 - "Escape!" choices 35:39 - Can't talk down the guard 39:09 - "I honestly don't know what more people could want!"/Intro too long 46:46 - Fallout 3's post-vault introduction 49:56 - Fallout 3 starts you in the middle of the map 54:33 - Megaton 58:07 - "It's odd to build a town around a nuke." 1:03:21 - Shandification of Fallout/Megaton Eats Molerats 1:23:37 - Megaton's Water 1:35:04 - Power of the Atom 1:43:51 - Lack of Impact for destroying Megaton 1:49:38 - Nukes as a theme 2:00:20 - Dealing with Moriarty and Silver, Choice in Fallout 3 2:09:40 - "The vast majority of Fallout 3's quests have choice!"/Little Lamplight 2:11:49 - Strawmanning about Realism 2:21:28 - Misdirection, Avoiding the actual issue while debunking criticisms that weren't actually made 2:27:03 - Rescue From Paradise 2:33:20 - Is mass murdering slavers morally grey? 2:39:23 - The part where Many A True Nerd takes IndigoGaming's quote and applies it to an entirely different part of the game in order to debunk it 2:43:03 - A Comparison to freeing slaves in Fallout 1 2:45:21 - Comparing child murder to nuking Megaton (spoiler, he's wrong.) 2:48:47 - Return to Megaton 2:50:13 - Starting Replicated Man in Megaton 2:52:17 - Amount of quests in the first town in Fallout 3 VS Fallout 1 2:55:16 - Metro Tunnels 3:00:07 - Super Mutants? In MY Fallout 3? It's more likely than you think! 3:17:47 - Jon draws a false parallel between Vault 13 and Vault 87 3:23:03 - The Brotherhood makes their contractually obligated appearance 3:30:41 - Jon claims the standard Brotherhood arc has always been about opening up 3:41:47 - "You see, disliking Fallout 3 is a game with some crazy rules, like it's totally okay to criticize Fallout 3 for doing something that Fallout New Vegas did and then just politely pretend New Vegas is invisible for a minute." 3:50:21 - "At least Autumn showed up! Lanius is just some guy!" 4:24:41 - "It makes more sense to talk Autumn down, than Lanius." 4:25:17 - "Lanius was obsessed with fighting." 4:32:01 - Fallout 3's ending 4:37:28 - Jon claims Broken Steel fixes Fo3's ending and fails to understand the criticism against it 4:42:17 - Big WOW moments 4:47:17 - Fallout 3 based it's quest around setpieces, entranceway showmanship 4:49:59 - A tangent completely unrelated to the quality of Fallout 3 about the supposed lack of dungeons in New Vegas 4:58:04 - Jon straight up fucking invents an explanation for why there are "few dungeons" in New Vegas, rather than accepting the obvious answer 5:10:55 - The story/Jon makes a snide comment about angry comments again 5:22:43 - A comparison of intros 5:29:56 - "Writing and plot," Jon talks about dialogue 5:43:37 - Jon takes Hbomberguy out of context and strawmans him 6:03:05 - Jon fails to understand the difference between skipping menial tasks and deeply developed quests 6:05:40 - An incredibly pointless comparison of maps in order to make an incredibly contrived argument 6:13:42 - "Fallout 3's story is decentralized" 6:17:13 - Fallout 3's main story: Not enough solutions, Not enough consequences, Morally Uninteresting 6:19:36 - "Quests don't have enough interesting ways to solve them" 6:28:23 - People assumed there weren't enough options because they didn't explore enough to find them 6:35:55 - "There aren't sufficient consequences for your actions" 6:41:15 - "People didn't see the consequences and assumed they weren't there"/Jon uses the random event system to defend a lack of consequences 6:48:10 - Jon mistakes something being missed due to low chances of spawning for extreme subtlety 6:53:11 - Jon completely misses Fallout 4's dumbing down being a continuation of what happened to Fallout 3, blames critics for it 6:58:42 - The Radio: Provides constant feedback, ThreeDog VS Mr. New Vegas 7:09:13 - Morality in Fallout 3 VS New Vegas 7:13:04 - A extremely obvious cherry picked example to attempt to "prove" New Vegas doesn't really have moral questions/"New Vegas only has two quests with a moral question" 7:17:00 - Oasis/Trouble On The Homefront/Tranqulity Lane 7:23:04 - Tenpenny Tower 7:27:49 - The Karma System/Jon makes a self-defeating argument 7:32:24 - "New Vegas has too many optimal solutions" 7:36:57 - "New Vegas is a post-post apocalypse" 7:42:05 - "Fallout 3 shows off the horror of the post-apocalypse, the previous only had encounters relevant to the current world!" 7:50:12 - The terrible shooting is good, because you're an inexperienced teenager 7:53:21 - Fallout 3 turns you into an explorer 8:00:31 - "Everything comes together for a sensation of exploration" 8:06:09 - Jon Concludes his video
Timecodes for the music used, so if there's a track you like, you can find it: 0:00 -- Main Menu -- Fallout 3 2:03 -- Don't Freeze Up -- Rimworld 7:03 -- To A Distant Place -- Breath of Fire III 11:15 -- Valley of Corrupted Gravity/Home of Gigantos -- Legend of Dragoon 14:29 -- Metallic Monks -- Fallout 1 18:58 -- Human 2 -- Warcraft II 24:30 -- Drumbeat of the Dunmer -- Morrowind 27:13 -- Carrion Waves -- Warcraft III 34:39 -- Fighting Man -- Breath of Fire III 36:55 -- Milkyway Battle -- FTL: Faster Than Light 40:24 -- Black Castle/Vellweb -- Legend of Dragoon 48:34 -- Overworld Music 02 -- Dragon Warrior VII 52:35 -- Fall of the Hammer -- Oblivion 53:56 -- Orc 2 -- Warcraft II 58:14 -- Wasteful Anthem -- Mother 3 1:03:58 -- Fancy Meat Computer -- Hylics 2 1:09:12 -- Wingly Forest -- Legend of Dragoon 1:13:35 -- Stormclouds on the Battlefield -- Morrowind 1:15:46 -- Donden -- Breath of Fire III 1:18:31 -- Team Plasma Battle Theme -- Pokemon Black & White 1:21:22 -- Colonial Battle -- FTL: Faster Than Light 1:25:24 -- Forbidden Land Battle -- Legend of Dragoon 1:30:27 -- Natural Killer Cyborg -- Mother 3 1:34:00 -- Boss Theme 1 -- Terraria 1:36:44 -- Chaos Bringer -- Rimworld 1:42:28 -- Battle In The Coming Days -- Breath of Fire III 1:48:52 -- Bright Spears, Dark Blood -- Morrowind 1:52:33 -- Forbidden Land -- Legend of Dragoon 1:58:48 -- Orc 4 -- Warcraft II 2:03:07 -- Porky's Porkies -- Mother 3 2:12:59 -- Turning Point -- Breath of Fire III 2:15:37 -- Battle 1 -- Final Fantasy IX 2:18:11 -- Boss Battle 1 -- Legend of Dragoon 2:23:40 -- Bloody Blades -- Oblivion 2:25:02 -- That's A Big Stick -- Hylics 2 2:32:53 -- The Biggest Little City In The World -- Fallout 2 2:36:20 -- Human 3 -- Warcraft II 2:39:37 -- Unfounded Revenge -- Mother 3 2:45:48 -- Team Magma/Aqua Leader Battle -- Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald 2:49:16 -- Lloyd's Theme -- Legend of Dragoon 2:57:05 -- Here It Comes -- Rimworld 3:05:33 -- Vats of Goo -- Fallout 1 3:10:05 -- Technology -- Breath of Fire III 3:12:33 -- Dance of Swords -- Morrowind 3:15:58 -- Bothersome Guys -- Mother 3 3:20:40 -- Doomhammer's Legacy -- Warcraft III 3:27:34 -- Boss 2 -- Terraria 3:32:20 -- World Map 2 -- Legend of Dragoon 3:38:02 -- City of the Dead -- Fallout 1 3:42:54 -- Battle 2 (Boss) -- Final Fantasy IX 3:47:00 -- Cumbersome Guys -- Mother 3 3:59:39 -- Boss Battle 2 -- Legend of Dragoon 4:08:10 -- Blight -- Warcraft III 4:13:31 -- Battle Theme -- Dragon Warrior VII 4:16:31 -- Odoro -- Breath of Fire III 4:22:24 -- Gold Slouch -- Fallout 2 4:27:45 -- March of the Marauders -- Oblivion 4:32:41 -- Troublesome Guys -- Mother 3 4:39:37 -- Lordaeron Fall -- Warcraft III 4:45:08 -- Moder Battle -- Valheim 4:48:14 -- Close the Gates -- Rimworld 4:53:28 -- Queen Fury -- Legend of Dragoon 4:59:10 -- Military Precision -- Half-Life 5:01:31 -- Khans of New California -- Fallout 1 5:06:18 -- Fighting -- Final Fantasy VII 5:10:22 -- Those Awful Ravenous Rainbows -- Slime Rancher 5:14:06 -- Piggy Guys -- Mother 3 5:22:16 -- World Map 1 -- Legend of Dragoon 5:28:03 -- Heavy Echo -- Breath of Fire III 5:44:36 -- Boss Battle 3 -- Legend of Dragoon 5:56:28 -- Battle Against a Weird Opponent -- Earthbound 6:03:22 -- Dark Cave -- Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal 6:10:41 -- Dining Hall Jazz -- Void Bastards 6:12:45 -- Main Menu Theme -- 7 Days To Die 6:18:41 -- Black Mage Village -- Final Fantasy IX **(Ran out of patience for editing the video at this point. All tracks beyond this point have been used earlier in the video, except the one used in the credits at the end.)** 6:22:45 -- Valley of Corrupted Gravity/Home of Gigantos -- Legend of Dragoon 6:25:33 -- Team Plasma Battle Theme -- Pokemon Black & White 6:29:00 -- Carrion Waves -- Warcraft III 6:36:35 -- Milkyway Battle -- FTL: Faster Than Light 6:39:36 -- Wingly Forest -- Legend of Dragoon 6:46:22 -- To A Distant Place -- Breath of Fire III 6:49:22 -- Natural Killer Cyborg -- Mother 3 6:59:04 -- Forbidden Land -- Legend of Dragoon 7:02:31 -- Fancy Meat Computer -- Hylics 2 7:09:46 -- Battle 1 -- Final Fantasy IX 7:12:27 -- World Map 2 -- Legend of Dragoon 7:18:21 -- Bothersome Guys -- Mother 3 7:26:30 -- Technology -- Breath of Fire III 7:30:21 -- Boss 1 -- Terraria 7:33:38 -- Orc 2 -- Warcraft II 7:38:21 -- World Map 1 -- Legend of Dragoon 7:43:44 -- Porky's Porkies -- Mother 3 7:54:45 -- Chaos Bringer -- Rimworld 7:59:01 -- Battle 2 (Boss) -- Final Fantasy IX 8:04:11 -- Battle in the Coming Days -- Breath of Fire III 8:12:50 -- The Road Most Travelled -- Morrowind
These are some nicely label timestamps... thank you. You can literally go to whatever point you like and see if the arguments are valid. If anyone has a problem they can quickly find where it will be. And for me, its like chapter select of a movie ive watched a few times but this is the directors cut
True you cant like any game these days.People always have to come with 200% logic to tell you that you shouldnt like this game and you are an idiot if you like this game.Whynt use some of ur imagination.Such a pathetic video.Hope True Fallout enjoyers dislike this video.
1:01:50 >Be Pre Megaton Citizen >Be lucky to be near pre build town Springveil with school, houses, , and even gas station >Refuse to rebuild town >Instead decide to stick near a FRICKING B O M B >WASTE your manpower on dismantling airport(which ALSO could've served as a new town) and then spending time relocating all that metal just to build a town around BOMB >POV: You're Post Megaton citizen
I always thought Megaton was stupid for a multitude of reasons, but to see it all put into full perspective like this makes me laugh thinking about how fucking stupid the whole of Megaton is.
And what stopped people from rebuilding Las Vegas into something more than a tiny portion of the strip and a huge pile of ruins around the city? Let's not forget that, canonically, none of the Las Vegas area was nuked.
@sinan sakic, PS3 and Xbox 360 had games with much larger and much more detailed cities. And even with Morrowind, locations where larger and more detailed. But, seeing as they barely could produce a functioning program in 18 months...
Consider the following: Anyone wanting to attack and take over Megaton could just chuck grenades over the walls and they would roll downwards and the guards wouldn't be able to do anything
There may not be an Officer Gomez in the rest of the game to fight for you and hold your hand, but there is Sarah Lyons, Liberty Prime, etc. who fill that same role.
@@fatherelijahcal9620 Absolutely. I just think that the idea of this old man in Vault-Tec gear telling off your enemies is comical. I'm roughly four hours into the video, and hot damn, Jon stretches nothing (sometimes literally) into some deep, "philosophical" nonsense. I understand that Oxhorn does the exact same thing, hence why I don't bother with him. You've most definitely been around this community longer than myself, so I'd like to ask you this: Does this behavior that Jon and Oxhorn exhibit happen to be a trend with bigger Fallout/lore channels? Also, who would you recommend in the community?
@@Creetosis It's been a hot second since I've checked in on him. It was back when he was in that group. The Autclave? Funnily enough, it seems like they beat Oxhorn. He has nearly three hundred times your subscriber count, yet your view count per video is closing the gap (given the type and quality of your work, it won't be long!) I definitely do need to check him out again. While I have your audience, do you have a streaming schedule? I'm not the kind of person to watch streams, but I really enjoy what I've seen through VODs and I'd like to tune in.
Ironically, NV was meant to have a post game where you get to see the effect of your faction choice but was removed due time constraints. Difference is you don't get fucking gassed to death by lanius.
@@Clangokkuner hmm....still feels strange. Maybe they were given time extensions. But why would they turn it down? Did they think using fallout 3s engine would mean less work?
@@anafu-sankanashi8933 their previous games prior to new Vegas also launched with similar symptoms, while I don't dislike obsidian they seem to have a tendency to expand the scope of their project way beyond capacity and then release them in an incomplete/broken state.
One's companions killing for them doesn't make that person a real pacifist, as technical pacifism involves not killing even if it does mean beating your foes into submission
@@TheBreakingBenny exactly..so a pacifist run would actually require use of the weapons and ammo that deal fatigue damage, like the boxing gloves, boxing tape, and beanbag rounds for the shotgun...the latter most of which is tricky to acquire in decent quantities without using console commands
Also regarding the beginning of New Vegas, following the first quest line you’re given and siding with Goodsprings, which does not take long to get to, you get several options to apply stat checks to win over townsfolk’s support against the encroaching gang. What’s more, the moment you enter the bar, which you are guided to by the game, there is immediate quest to try and fix the radio for them, requiring a stat check. Further, on a first run and likely even on the second, you will not have the stats to succeed each check that Goodsprings can throw at you. Chet demands Barter, Judy needs Speech, Pete needs Explosives, Doc needs Medicine. And there are opportunities to lock pick and put terminal skills to use. There’s even an option to learn the game’s crafting mechanics. Further, you are given the first dilemma. Siding with Goodsprings is the morally right decision, but the Powder Gangers are a larger organization with more influence. There is no ethical reason to side with the Powder Gangers, but their is self interest in doing so. They also have more to offer and more opportunities to hurt you. No matter what you do in Goodsprings, anything they can do for or against ends in one location. Goodsprings serves as excellent introduction to New Vegas’s mechanics: Hacking/Lockpick related mini-games, dialogue stat checks, useful interactions with parts of the world tied to stat checks, gear degradation and repair, ammo types (if you talk to Chet about them) Cooking/Crafting, and Faction Reputation. And you don’t have to stick around for any of it. You can dart off first opportunity and never need spare Goodsprings a second thought.
I dont understand why you ppl compare older - first true 3D of fallout to later on version, more perfected version of fallout 3.. makes litterly no sense.. thats why i cant take this video searious either.
@artursobkow2680 Oh man, how disingenous. Stop making excuses for Bethesda. They had the experience of Morrowind and Oblivion on their belts; they were not indifferent to creating 3D worlds and GameBryo was their bread and butter, that means Fo3 would in any case see the improvement of its processes and although they had just acquired the franchise it is not as if they did not have the previous games (FO1,2, tactics, BOS, van Buren prototype) as a base. Not to mention the most important fact: Obsidian was given an absurd deadline of 18 months for development in an engine they didnt knew and they managed to create a rich, balanced and interesting story by perfecting the half-baked mechanics of FO3 (no iron sights, skill check chance, bland unique weapons, serviceable but basic shooting). If I remember correctly, the base game was a disaster of bugs and poor optimization. And despite everything, it came forward critically for the narrative and its other virtues. It's just a very poor argument the one you're offering, not one worth taking seriously.
@@jukkamegido6409 Who the F is unhonest here, its not like bethesda gave engine to obsidian and told them: make something out of it, they gave expierenced develepoers that worked on fallout 3 to.. ima leave at that, coz rest of the comment in same bullshit story that this argument.
Remember how you get to join Brotherhood in F1? Surviving on a suicide mission against all expectations, where an entire squad of Brotherhood's paladins perished? Yeah, very friendly chaps, those Brotherhood boys.
@@KakeiTheWoIf from the perspective of the Brotherhood's paladin - there is no chance some rando from the wasteland will succeed where a team of paladins have failed. It's not a matter of difficulty gameplay wise. It's a matter of difficulty lore wise.
You almost can't escape the main story in New Vegas, it's everywhere. Because it has an impact on everyone. Because it's the main story. That's why the goofy joke DLC for 3 is a disconnected alien romp and the goofy joke DLC for New Vegas is a plot-heavy existential look at the pre-War scientists who repeatedly ignored ethics and abandoned humanity to make things like the Y-17, the Cazador, the Robobrain, the Saturnite warhead, themselves, etc, and how they represent a little bit of all three of the major players of New Vegas in their own way, and how Elijah and Ulysses used the technology there in creative and logical ways to attempt to reforge the world in their image, just as NCR and Legion have done. You leave hyped for Dead Money and Lonesome Road and you leave with a sense of existential sadness but the best solution is maintaining the status quo which is reflected elsewhere in the game.
@@GamerMarine89 It's actually insane how much effort went into making the world feel cohesive, the writing is top-notch. Even my other favorite games like Morrowind and Red Dead can't match it in terms of writing quality imo.
@@kingofthegrill Note: I don't actually disagree with your general point. I just wanted to see if I could come up with 5. Whang Dang Atomic Tango, High Times, A Valuable Lesson, Suits You Sarah, and As you mentioned Bleed Me Dry are what I've got. "Suits You Sarah" CAN interact with the main story if you decide to bring her boomer flightsuits but you don't HAVE to. Edit: Talent Pool definitely counts. And 'Nothin But a Hound Dog has an option that's related to the main story in a really tangential way but said option is also completely missable.
Imagine Springvale being the settlement and Megaton being just an atom church. It's a big crater, so it's full of water, and people in springvale want to use it to drink and irrigate the crops offering part of the food and other goods to the church as exchange. The problem is that the bomb it's still radioactive and its contaminating the water. So Lucas want you to deactivate it, so they can drag it out safely. In the other hand, the atom followers are split, some of them (the less fanatic ones) think that it's a pretty good deal, the others think it's a blasphemy, and at the same time some people in Springvale are ready to take the water by force if necessary. There you go, some depth for a bomb in a crater. I mean, I'm not even smart and I can come with something more interesting for a conflict about Megaton. Imagine being a writer and the only thing you can come up with it's a posh rich bastard trying to blow up a town because he doesn't like the views...
Like how there's an Atom Settlement somewhere in the glowing sea in fallout 4? now that I think about it, it seems like Bethesda learned from that silliness at least.
I understand what your saying and completely agree, but ironically that's basically the plot of Tenpenny Tower's quest. The outsiders (the ghouls), want something the tower residents have (a nice place to live) and thus basically the same conflict. No hate intended, you literally said you came up with the idea without much thought, I just thought I'd point the irony out.
@@thewholehorse7140 ironically you don't know how to write a good story want =/= needs Also "goo goo gaa gaa I'm racist and bigot" is not a good story either
@@grimrapper5202 Sorry, but I don't see where I said Tennpeny Tower's Quest was my idea at all mate. I was pointing the fact the "they want what we've got" situation had already been done, even if it was a very poor execution like you said.
I just realized why they don't have rain in the game. It's because rain water is supposedly clean, fresh, and should be non-radiated after 200 years. Having a clean source of water completely removes the point of the main quest.
Rain was featured as far back as in TES III: Morrowind on Xbox, and could also be seen in the last Gamebryo Elder Scrolls game TES IV: Oblivion. There'd certainly be rain on the East Coast, much more than even California would have I think.
@@clydemarshall8095 That is true, thank you for pointing that out to me. It's still weird it's not mentioned anywhere or by anyone that they even hope for rain
Also, wouldn't it be funny if in a future Fallout game they reference Megaton as having canonically exploded from the bomb? But not because of the Lone Wanderer, just because it finally went off? And that the Lone Wanderer "defusing" the bomb didn't actually do anything? Cause how is it that a 19 year old fresh out of the Vault with an explosives skill equivalent to the threshold by which Easy Pete trusts them with Dynamite can effectively DISARM a NUKE???
That would actually be hilarious and an interesting narrative decision. Like, something you hear in distant hearsay, "Down in D.C., they built a town around a bomb. That didn't end too well for them. They even thought they had it defused at one point, but it wasn't long after when the town was replaced with a crater..."
@@hisholiness4537 it does give you access to ground water, and yeah it's irradiated. But, so it all the other water. As for why the town isn't dead yet? You can trade scrap for caps in the towns water treatment plant. I know what you're thinking, if it's water, and they have a filtration system, why not just settle by the coast, or the Potomac river? Well. There's the mirelurks.
Go off how though? Its not a stick of dynamite. Burke needs you to use the fusion pulse charge for a reason. You think Tenpenny wouldn't just hire talon company to fire a mortar (artillery is available and seen at the capital building and Takoma park) at the town if banging it up made it blow? Nukes are very delicate in that if you do not set them off just right you'll just get a fizzle out of them and break them. Having a smoothbrain moron take random bits out is actually not a horrible way to ensure the bomb will never work. Megaton is flawed for plenty of reasons but the bomb isn't as crazy as people make it out to be.
Calling hin Richard Gray rather than the master is also really dumb by the way because it’s quite clear that the events that caused him to become the master also changed Richard Gray to the point that he’s not really the same person anymore. It’s more like referring to the hulk as Bruce Banner or Mr Hyde as Dr Jekyll. That’s who they used to be.
I also doubt that most that agree with matn have any idea who Richard Grey is, and only can associate him with the master due to context clues. Matn really knows his audience XD
Not even that, calling him Richard Grey instead of The Master is just plain inaccurate because the FEV assimilated him with like 2 other people and the computer systems. He is literally more than just Richard Grey at this point.
Knowing bathesda fallout lore. They probably got it from the enclave while impersonating Dr. Brown. (This is a reference to the badly written lore of vault 51 in fallout 76, where an AI gets some hellfire armor from the enclave, after impersonating Dr. Brown.)
not really. there's clean water in goodsprings, clean water in the colorado, clean water in lake mead and lake las vegas. that game is more about the scarcity of electricity and power, literal and metaphorical power.
Not really? I was actually really surprised by how much clean, clear, non-radiating water there is in NV when I first played it. The downside is, radiated water heals more than clean water. It's already been mentioned, but yeah you can find clean water in large bodies, some towns, and you can purchase it just fine.
@@jacksonelh @BigVorst I mean I think it's pretty obvious that he is referring to the narrative. He means that in FO3 it's never or very rarely mentioned, and in NV although there's much more water in the game there are a lot of quests and places that have water problems
@@katatonikbliss it would also explain why paladin Danse is screaming "remember the citadel" when charging into combat in fallout 4. Long story short: the LW got project purity running and then blew up the brotherhood, because he got bored or something.
You *can* actually backstab the crap Lyons turned his BOS into. You know, after the Enclave is in shambles, and the whole story is said and done. Because at that point, I guess Bethesda gave up and let you turn on them, because why not? Give Fallout 4 credit: You can go after the BOS instantly, or mostly ignore them. Lot like Vegas, funnily enough.
In response to the one guy who talked about the three flowers in the cemetery, they are probably fake plastic flowers. Placing fake flowers at a grave is commonplace, since they require little to no maintenance, unlike real flowers.
It is logical, considering that the flowers should be pollinated, so it's not like such a small population may survive long-term. I think I'm overanalyzing that piece of shit of a game
@@Kackspack0815 its not as common as you would think, a lot of people believe its better to place real flowers. But since the plastic flowers last longer, and, sure, admittedly would be cheaper, some people here in America opt to place those plastic flowers instead.
I wish Autumn and the Enclave could have been a nuanced faction in 3. Autumn leading a new Enclave who actually want to help people while Eden uses his "presidential" sway to gather Enclave members to help him. Make the game a choice between a new Enclave or the old. Autumn or Eden. Genocide or New beginnings.
If they'd done the same thing with the BoS, leadership crisis and conflicts over where to take the faction, you'd essentially have four factions in the game too.
I feel like the frontier tried this with the “liberal” legion and it just fails because its the antithesis of the faction. The enclave arent interested in winning the hearts and minds of the people, theyre interested in ruling over them as menial subjects. They inherently view themselves as the superior un mutated people vs the mutants of the wasteland
@@Stormeris Bethesda has bad writing? What about Ghouls in Fallout 1/2? Your telling me that's realistic to radiation as well? Sorry I gotta go, I just found out from a UA-cam comment that radiation can make me immortal and glow like a lightbulb.
Don’t forget about The Talon Company. There is practically not a single entity in the entire wasteland they could be possibly working for. It’s a very large organization with bases and outposts and patrols all over the wasteland that are described in the game as mercenaries. They have more territory, more soldiers and hold more strategic points than almost any faction in the game. Other factions should offer their services to THEM, not the other way around.
Not just that but they also have some serious firepower, they have a motar set up in the DC ruins, they've taken over numerous points that if they can utilize they have more power than any group including the BoS and the outcasts.
talon company was essentially just a way to punish players with good karma. i spent so much time trying to find the Talon Company HQ or whatever so that i could just kill em off and be done with them. but nope.
@@boarfaceswinejaw4516 even if they did have an HQ and you wiped it off the map, they'll probably keep respawning and go after you. Since their appearance is tied to RNG.
Oh, but they are! They are working for an unnamed person in the shadows who we never get to learn about or interact with at all because fuck you and your world building.
There's one thing that always bothered me with his vid. Lanius required many speech checks, each increasing with skill, to convince him to leave. It felt like you were talking him down by "increasing your argument". Autumn at most requires 2. If Raven Rock is destroyed (which is the scenario MATN is presenting), it can be done in 1. Although him leaving makes sense, it makes him come off weak as if with one sentence I convinced him to leave. New Vegas did it better with Oliver. 2 speech checks, one confirming there's a way to escape, and one saying he has a duty to his men. Oliver doesn't leave because you said to, he sees it's lost and realizes he has a duty to his men; he won't fight a losing battle for them go die. And he says point blank that they will return. Like Lanius, he's not surrendering forever. Nice vid btw
The thing I always liked about Lanius is the Speech check is an absolute bad ending. Lanius straight up says he's coming back with dramatically more troops, meaning speech checking your way through him is signing Vegas up for an even worse round 2. More games need to narratively punish speech checking your way out of actually having to do anything.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 the only other example I know of where a game "punishes" the player for taking the shortcut (Skill check in this case) is FNV Dead Money. Using Skill checks on Dean Domino ticks him off as you're manipulating him, causing him to betray you at the end.
@@DJWeapon8 I recall the the lonesome road expansion, when talking to Ulysses at the end, you have to actually pay attention to what you say to him and remember what it is that motivates him. There was one high level speech skill option that I met the requirements for and then when I chose it, he basically went "Wait a second, you're trying to trick me, aren't you? This conversation is over." Begin boss fight.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 I think you're making a lot of assumptions there to make it a "bad ending." It would be neat if there was such a punishment, but if that was the intent, frankly it would have been in the ending slide. Because New Vegas and the Mojave is not in a great state when the Legion invade, the Legion actually has a chance even with their extremely bad equipment by comparison. Any other ending leaves the Mojave in a position to prepare very quickly, with perhaps only the NCR ending being ambiguous, because they suck at defending their fringe territory lol But I really don't think it's as cut-and-dry as you present; I think you fell for some of Lanius' mythology.
Legate Lanius never doing anything to the player directly argument made me chuckle. Travelling Mojave and seeing all horrors Legion does to people of the land and especially if you're playing a female courier, you have big enough picture to realize what kind of person Lanius is and what will happen if you fail. One of the moments where death would be a preferable outcome.
Because Courier 6 isn't the chosen one, it isn't a story of good or evil. Courier 6 is just a wildcard that stacks the deck, a jinx in all the plans of all of the major players. New Vegas is about the NCR, Mr House and the Legion. Listen to the radio sometime.
"seeing all horrors Legion does to people of the land" Ok, but in-lore their lands are more peaceful and people aren't beset by raiders all the time Maybe sometimes a bit of violent authoritarianism is required- a firm hand to tame the savage land. Plus, do you know how to end primitive wars quickly with the least amount of bloodshed? Be terrifying and brutal to those who oppose you. Provided you can actually win the wars, other tribes will think "yeah, it's better to submit" and thus not fight. That's how countries are formed. We're tribal by nature, and only by instilling in us the fear that resistance is very, very, very much not worth it can we have a society better than petty tribes and squabbling families.
@@UnsoberIdiot You don't need to have raiders when you are ruled by ones. There are places in the world of Fallout that offer protection and order without enslaving and torturing you for slight disagreement with their childish beliefs or being born as a woman. The Legion is a colossus on clay feet, as soon as Ceaser dies civil war between it's ranks going to tear the entire structure apart.
It's probably been mentioned before but I got pretty annoyed when John complained that there is little radiation in New Vegas. Is he forgetting that in the lore Mr House stopped most of the nukes from hitting the Mojave? So obviously there wouldn't be as much radiation in most areas. Every area that has radiation has a reason for it. Vault 34 has it because the reactor is leaking, The Nuclear Test Site has it for obvious reasons and Searchlight has it because of the Legions attack.
@@ArcAngle1117 while this is mostly correct, it's also not... and the issue is way worse than that. You're not just dealing with the bombs here, literally everything ran on nuclear power. It got so bad, for example, that they were just dumping barrels of waste willy nilly because the storage facilities were (presumed) full. They had fusion batteries powering pretty much anything that was too small for a reactor. ALL of them exploded (except the ones that didn't). The real issue is that after only 200 years, the countryside would be _TOO_ irradiated for anyone to live for more than a few hours. So you're right, the fallout wouldn't be an issue, but you're wrong in that the environment would be crazy deadly still.
@@iami3rian394 if it’s radioactive and explodes then it’s likely discharged it’s stored energy and it’s radiation should dissipates if a few weeks or months to a safe level. The nuclear waste barrels will be deadly for centuries but the smaller radioactive appliances should be rendered non dangerous within a couple of decades. Realistically speaking such low yield miniature reactors shouldn’t be that dangerous if your not wearing them as a necklace for months.
@@scorchercast8366 that's just it, though. Radaway is a thing, and it's STILL everywhere 200 years AFTER the great war irradiated everything. I don't think they used shielding AT ALL on anything. I feel like it would be like a flu shot. Once a year, pop over to the doc and get injected, as compared to shielding everything (like... literally everything) that runs on power. I mean, like I said they had irradiated children's toys. Not much besides lights actually plug into the power grid, and they've got robots trapsing around living in people's houses. On top of that, the food and water thing kinda destroys any way to gauge just what "1 rad" of radiation even is in Fallout. 200 can kill you, and 1,000 WILL kill you in hours IRL. There's also the rather strong possibility that they're using something entirely different than uranium and plutonium for warheads... and fuel in general. I mean, they've got fat boys, for example. We've had nuclear artillery weapons (and still do as far as I'm aware), but they're nowhere NEAR that small, and necessarily cannot be. No matter what, you MUST hit critical mass, or nothing happens. That's just the nature of nuclear physics. To do that with less mass, you need more force, and thus more conventional explosives as a trigger (and a larger though lighter warhead). Meaning, who knows WHAT isotopes are leftover after a nuke goes off... which means it could be dangerous for MUCH longer than the weapons we use, which are mostly harmless after 200 years. They could be using stuff that leaves isotopes with a half life into the millions of years, that's ALSO releasing high levels of radiation. But yeah, I think that's the idea... Like even watches ran on RTGs. You don't think that pipboy is safe to wear, do ya. = ) They essentially do walk around with reactors on their necks.
You are arguing realism in a game where a faction of psychopaths wearing football pads is the biggest threat to the surviving world and their second in command fights people with an oversized sword. Nobody is playing these games for realism.
3:46:00 Yup. I was going to say that the truce between the NCR and The Brotherhood was not because The Brotherhood suddenly learned that "isolationism is bad", but a step they saw as necessary to their own survival, since their numbers were dwindling. They realized that NCR control of Hoover Dam/New Vegas would mean the NCR becoming even more powerful as a faction, and the Brotherhood already lost their battle at Helios One due to being laughably outnumbered, despite having superior firepower. They're literally just trying to get on the NCR's good side so they don't become a target. It's also worth pointing out that Veronica's quest involves Brotherhood members slaying a few Followers of the Apocalypse just out of the fear that Brotherhood secrets "might" have been leaked (which they weren't), strictly because of Veronica's continued interaction with them. They're just as paranoid towards outsiders as before.
most definitely, I did enjoy the feel of the Mojave chapter of the BoS, though with the route they're taking, their survival just wouldn't happen, they made too many enemies
Hell there's even the dangers of 'being a good person' in Fallout New Vegas. If you use the favor from The King to have The Kings make peace with the NCR:.. and you pick Mister House or Caesar for the faction to support... The Kings get utterly exterminated for their 'positive relation with the NCR'... which YOU had them do because 'cooperation is good'. Asking Arcade to help at Hoover Dam for the final mission when supporting the NCR Ending, he ends up recognized by the armor as an Enclave Remnant afterwards and he gets booted from the Followers, he gets hunted by bounty hunters and eventually flees from known areas and is never heard from again. Fallout New Vegas tells you there's consequences for your choices. And dun sugar coat it. Like if you tell Lilly to stop taking her medicine... she ends up going insane and rage-filled... the sweet granny drowned beneath the insanities of being a super mutant nightkin. Fallout 3 just gives me that.... Mass Effect 3 ending feel of rainbow colored 'samey ending'. about every single quest in New Vegas gives you a choice of two or more results... some has skill checks as well for a whole extra choice to do, perhaps giving you a chance for a GOOD choice rather than picking between the rock and the hard place.
I always thought Beagle's journal was a sort of a fail safe and a detail or his character. My friend went in to save Beagle and an idiot of an AI got stuck, threw a dynamite and killed Beagle. This can happen even if the player doesn't kill Beagle. I also used him as a temp companion for clearing out the Bison hotel and had more than one 'near-death' encounters. The journal is there to enhance Beagle's character as a somewhat incompetent deputy and as a fail safe in case he dies, thus possibly soft locking the whole game. So I would argue FNV is way more planned and thought out for it's narrative and main quest.
"The skill checks don't come in until quiet a bit down the line" Unless you walk back into the saloon after shooting some bottles and are immediately placed into a multi-sided situation which gives you several chances for skill checks. But yeah I guess 8 seconds is quiet a bit down the line.
The tutorial has an optional section about crafting which uses the survival skill. Technically you are using a skill there and it’s the game informing you about the skill and how it works
The whole "There's no other instance of you persuading an NPC to go take care of their mess in the Fallout series" is just plain wrong, you can persuade the NCR Ranger inside Vault 3 to go fight Motor-Runner and get killed
Even within FO3, I was exploring around the Ranger Base in the DC ruins and found a man being held captive by a crazy preacher. One of the options to resolve the situation is to use charisma to convince him to talk things out with the preacher. The preacher is beyond the point of reason and kills him and himself with explosives. You can alternatively snipe the man or sneak in and pocket all the explosives you can see and leave him to his fate. In FNV you can push Deputy Beagle to grow a pair and fight or just have him flee while you do all the work.
You can also do a similar thing with one of the male civillians inside the Omertas' casino in NV: he's largely incompetent, and very likely to die in an unsuccessful attempt to destroy the Omertas' gun stash, but it's an option.
Also it's hilarious how it's argued that you cannot convince slavers to hand over a slave for free, but you can apparently convince an enclave AI supercomputer to destroy itself cuz 'reasons'. Imagine if you could use your barter skill as a dialogue option here a la Fallout New Vegas style that allows you to point out the troubles of dealing with child slaves, how they are weaker than the average adult slave, they are more whiney, they have an overall higher maintenance due to being at the growing age, etc.... and maybe you can convince if not getting the slave for free, at least at a discount. But no that's way unrealistic that you can BARTER with a business man (slaver or not, still a business man in the end, yes?), yet can convince an AI-President to blow itself and the whole base it's at into pieces just cuz you told it to do so cuz 'enclave bad'.
I find it funny he mentions murdering slavers as a morally grey choice. They are all one dimensional villains. In FNV when I made the choice to destroy the brotherhood of steel I feel slightly bad because there is multiple characters in that faction that are likable, unlikable or somewhere in between. I still stand by the decision to kill them but I'm never convinced I'm fully making the right choice. Same with the boomers or heck even the legion. Fallout 3's factions have no understandable motivations or interesting personalities. Like the enclave has 2 dumb leaders and and army of faceless stormtroopers. The super mutants in fallout 1 are interesting, intimidating and also kind of tragic and in Fallout 3 their just there. They could have been cut and not much would have changed. I've played fallout 3 for ages and I still know nothing about the Talon company. The Brotherhood of steel and the outcasts both exist. (also quick side note since the Outcast are following the BOS's original mission shouldn't they not be called the outcasts?) Anyway I think I've rambled enough. I do still enjoy fallout 3 though.
Three Dog even *calls* them "Stormtroopers" in one of his broadcasts. The one that happens after you finish Broken Steel by blowing up the Base Crawler at Adams AFB.
29:56 A great example of declining a reward with future consequences is in Fallout 2, my favorite Fallout game to date. In The Den, you are tasked with taking some coins from someone who is in debt. When confronting this debtor, he will ask if you can cover half of his debt. You can still take all of the money you were tasked to, but you have the choice of covering half the debt out of pure kindness. If you do. he will ask again for you to cut his debt in half, meaning he only pays 25% of what he needs to, with you covering the rest. Keep in mind, money is very hard to come across in bulk early-game, and the Den is one of the first locations you will stumble across. If you choose to cover 75% of his debt, you can return to the Den far later in the game to find a surprising result. The man used the money you let him keep to get rich, heavily implied to be via gambling. As a reward for your previous unsanctioned kindness, he will reward you with a variety of valuable equipment, such as late-game ammo. Fallout 3 is not the only game to experiment with this sort of delayed-reward or butterfly-effect-style consequences. And I'd say Fallout 2 was far, far better at rewarding the player for their deeds than any other Fallout game.
I was just reading about a similar quest in Morrowind involving a wood elf named Gaenor. Only in that scenario, the result is funding the rise to power of a powerful foe alongside the loss of the money. A double gut punch for kindness (Very Bethesda vibe lol). Interesting the only way to avoid a foul outcome is to avoid the dude entirely.
"I remember the tutorial town that you never need to revisit less than the most central hub that contains one of two player houses in the entire game" is a hell of an argument.
Sending other people to do your killing for you, definitely doesn't make you pacifist, and definitely shows a misunderstanding of the philosophy of pacifism.
Attempting to apply pacifism to a video game that isn't explicitly built with it in mind is a failure of understanding. You can technically beat Bloodbourne without attacking any enemies, but it's not pacifism. The technique requires you to use rolling to poison enemies, which is still you killing them.
@@nottherealpaulsmith his defense was mainly that he didn't send anyone to be killed, not that his followers did it for him and he should be excluded. Additionally Bugliosi made this stuff up about a race war around Helter Skelter Manson never actually talked about to sensationalize the trial which succeeded
Knocking Fallout New Vegas for having the cazadore brick wall is...so silly? Like, it's genuinely fantastic game design because NV is basically saying "you shouldn't go this way" without ever actually putting up an invisible barrier. You are STILL open to walking that way, and it never takes away that freedom of choice, it's just that the developers are nudging you along a certain path *if you want* because they believe you'll have a narratively satisfying path by going around the way you do. It's providing an example of how to pace your own story while *still* allowing the player to ignore that and forge their own (very difficult!) path. Like, that's a brilliant way of handling the open-world story pacing problem. What a silly thing to knock against NV!
@@iancoots4394 except you can literally find a way past them? You can make it to New Vegas within an hour of gameplay. They nudge you in a specific way so you can find key locations and learn about the world, which is good for, I dunno, new players? Wouldn't you want to learn about the factions and different locations the first time around? No? Good, because if you know how to evade Cazador attacks and can play to your characters skills, you can make your past the Cazadors, by killing them or making your way past. Don't wanna go that way? Cool, take a alternate path and go around some deathclaws. Don't want to go that way? Cool, take a slightly different path and go around/through some supermutants, find the body of a dead soldier of a faction you haven't met before, evade a falling rock trap and make your way past all those other obstacles. Don't want to go that way? Cool, you can follow the recommended path for new players and simply follow the main route to learn about a bunch of different locations and their predicaments, save a town by finding them a sheriff, find a town burned to the ground with dozens of people being crucified, talk to a patrol of soldiers who caused this, and literally spread the word of what happened to a nearby outpost, which also leads to finding a new companion, new quests, new characters and helping you along the exact same path you were going to go along anyways. You can complain that a game is linear, but it isn't if you know what to do or simply put your mind to it, whilst the main path is meant to intertwine and teach the player to all the factions and people that could be useful down the road.
When the wall can be climbed with a stealth boy fairly easily, I completely agree it makes an excellent illusory barrier in the earliest part of the game. Think I found my first one in Primm or Mojave Outpost.
@@blackhat4206 You can actually find a Stealth Boy in the Goodsprings school building, so with like, five minutes of exploration once you've left Doc Mitchell's, you can get into New Vegas within half an hour of starting the game.
@@SaulGoodman3D2049 hell. I just ran. Cazadores can be tricky to get past since the road north of Goodsprings is narrow, so you gotta time it so the death bugs are as far away from you as possible before booking it. Its even easier if you take the road to Sloan. Hug the rightmost rocks, or even better try to jump and climb on them, to avoid the deathclaws.
Why do people always bring up "oh they just hunt for animals" when the food question is brought up? Yes, you can live off the land by hunting and gathering, but you will not be able to establish any permanent settlements because you will constantly be traveling to get food, nor could you ever support the large populations of the town. You can't just live off of the same couple of square miles, you'll run out of food by overhunting. Civilizations farm for a reason, because animals don't respawn in real life. If everyone in Fallout 3 supplies themselves by hunting, then the Capital Wasteland should be nothing but small nomadic tribes chasing brahmin herds, giant ants, and molerats.
Exactly. In only very rare cases in history did hunter/gatherer societies not have to move, because food was so abundant where they were. With how sparsely the Capital Wasteland is populated, permanent settlements wouldn't be able to be established and that's before we even consider the entire "all plant life is dead" issue.
Megaton as a whole disproves the whole "hunting for food" headcanon. IIRC molerat meat isn't even offered in the diner in Megaton. Nor does anyone explicitly mention hunting for food, let alone hunting the molerats outside. Then there's Moira's quest where she wants to make a weapon that *repels* molerats. You don't want to *repel* your main food source. Even more is at the end of that quest is how she mentions a desire for domesticating them, further confirming that mole rats aren't even considered as a source of food.
i wouldn't eat any of these animals cosidering that there aren't that many anyway i'd say they are living on the code of the game because there's no way they get enough food from hunting
@@DIEGhostfish You could say Pre-War weapons either accidentally or intentionally altered weather patterns so the area has a harsh, prolonged dry season where the green dies out. It is summer canonically in game. But with fall/winter rains it greens up until the dry season the next year. But that requires more effort than Bethesda wanted to put in.
Addressing True Nerd's contention with "too many" outcomes, I once did a playthrough of New Vegas where I was roleplaying as Mike Tyson, and I ONLY fought using unarmed damage, and being single mindedly focused on beating up people who were against me. When Mike got to Boulder City, he immediately recognized one of the Khans with Benny, punched him and all his friends to death, and proceeded to side with the NCR because they didn't like who he didn't like. Some of my most fun roleplay, but I guess I shouldn't have had that choice, since clearly only the peaceful option that satisfies both sides is worthwhile.
@@garretteckhardt8036 I've heard both pronunciations are correct, it's just how you use them. Nuclear places or things are "nuke-yoo-ler" Nuclear actions like nuclear attacks, bombings, blasts, etc are "noo-clear" I don't know. This stems from Homer Simpson correcting someone the pronunciation of a nuclear submarine.
@@kylehyde215CA As far as I can tell, this is not the case, not that it's important but I did look it up just cz I was interested. New-klee-ar is the correct way to say the word full stop. However, New-kyu-lar is now seen as an acceptable alternative pronunciation in most american dictionaries and has been used by prominent figures such as presidents in the past. So at the end of the day, they are technically both correct but one (new-klee-ar) is the original correct pronunciation. I couldn't find anything that suggests that this the pronunciation is different based on how the word is used. This is only meant as a fun fact cz I find things like this to be neat. I actually was kind of hoping that your explanation was correct though as I have never heard this explanation before and it's always fun to learn little tidbits like such.
He is "that guy who died in 6 seconds after talking like he wasn't a jabroni, then in fact was a jabroni" Praise Dr. Mobius' Giant Robo-Scorpion for being an adequate boss. Praise the random deathclaws infesting the quarry for being cathartic bliss to beat up.
Scientifically speaking, 200 years after a nuclear apocalypse, most radiation would've likely largely faded by the time Fallout 3 takes place, even in a heavily-bombed location like the Capitol Wasteland. The climate also wouldn't have changed much either, yeah a lot of the plants would've died initially, but it would've still rained, maybe a bit less than before, but it wouldn't be as desert-like in Fallout 3. A lot of the plants would've also likely come back due to either some seeds surviving, or through humans planting saved seeds. Fallout has never been completely scientifically-accurate, but it acknowledged that without rain NOTHING CAN LIVE, and that a nuclear war wouldn't turn the world into a giant desert.
@@pennydime4562 Oh yeah, The Glowing Sea. It's weird it's still like that from ONE bomb detonating in the area, yet the rest of Boston is still somehow fine, in spite of there being MULTIPLE having supposedly struck the area. That's not even getting into every other part of the Wasteland not being NEARLY as bad, even during periods closer to the Great War. There's also the complete insanity of Radstorms, if those were a regular thing even in the modern day NOTHING should be alive. We also weirdly don't see any other bomb craters like the one at the edge of it, in spite of there definite being more than one that struck the area.
@@pennydime4562 Well, the fallout universe nuclear weapons might be dirtier than real life one (less efficient), but still the most radioactive isotopes got the shortest half life period and lose their potency quickly.
It's writing for the writers, but it would have been interesting to have Col. Autumn injecting himself with a strain of F.E.V. (Which he intended to put into the purifier like Eden wants the player to do) to survive the immense radiation. But, later it's revealed that the reason he survived was that the FEV turned him into a radiation-immune sapient Super Mutant (First Gen), and the Enclave has him held captive with all rights and rank removed too. Then the both of you can either work together to escape or you can take your revenge on him for essentially killing your father. It'd show the Enclave has no loyalty past nepotism, and will even betray their own high-ranking officials for really any reason. Even have Autumn make reference to Frank Horrigan for those early FO fans, but also show that even Horrigan was only tolerated because he was big and terrifying. Show that even the Enclave knows their mission is completely based on ultranationalism and greed, essentially feel-good patriotic bullshit, and their only real goal is to dominate others and take/do whatever they want. They're no better than the conniving, scheming pre-war Gov't that they spawned from. Just a thought.
7:13:15 I love how MATN tries to say that Nelson doesn't have a moral question or scenario, but Ranger Milo literally orders you to put down the trooper that are crucified, and its up to you to follow his orders or not.
I killed them my first playthrough. Boone told me it's standard practice I didn't learn till much later you can actually save them. I was just a soilder following orders. Now, screw your orders I'm doing what's right! We got a dead Ranger surrounded by snipers hope they enjoy my .308 rounds to the face because he's coming back with me, what's that? A bomb revenge can wait I gotta save the monorail, share cropper still screws me I cant decide what's better, on one hand I have several lives in my hand, on the other I have an entire farm that feeds tons of refugees. I tend to save the farm since saving the people just makes more mouths to feed anyway, it makes the problem significantly worse.
and nothing happens if you dont follow his orders. saving them is one of the easiest things in the game, and there are no negative consequences to it whatsoever. there’s no reason *not* to save them unless you just wanna be a dick or you didn’t know it was an option. that’s not a moral question because there is an objectively correct answer.
What do you think is more humane? Mercy kill 3 dying soldiers who have been tortured, so they are able to get into the camp, OR save them, amd force them to live out their painful mentally and physically scarring PTSD filled lives.
@@Lance-The-BoS-Lancer You do realize you're advocating for involuntary euthanasia, right? Even if what you're saying is true, that's a decision they can make on their own after they got rescued. I hate to prove godwin's law right, but i just can't help myself.
Personally I don’t see an issue with low Charisma high speech Knowing how to talk to someone rationally and convince them to do things is an absolute skill so much so that there are courses you can take to learn to do these things better Where as being charismatic doesn’t even require you to be verbal as is easily proven by the mass absorption of silent movies despite no words being uttered there are hugely famous characters and actors created thru the medium Characters like forest Gump also prove to me that good speech ability is not required to be a likable charismatic person Conversely you can e very good at speaking and have the personality of a doorknob A good example is Neil degrasse Tyson who is extremely eloquent but I would rather rip my hair out than be in his company
@@balmorrablue3130 lol, no. If some paralized dude rolled up to a chick in a club he ain’t going to rationalize his way into sleeping with her. If some scrawny ugly nerd stutters *intimidation* at you you won’t really buy it, would you?
2:17:34 "Comparing the choice and consequence in Fallout 3 to Fallout 2 is like comparing the amount of water in a small pond to a large lake. Yeah, it's there, but one is clearly Superior." I choose to interpret that as a pun.
Another way I feel like you can tell the differences between FO3 and NV is imagine hypothetically how both would approach the Old World Blues DLC. In NV it seems like a whacky and zany romp through sci-fi land with the funny brain-scientists and the stereotypically-evil genius trying to zap your intelligence to nothing with robo-scorpions, but at the end you realize the evil-genius guy is actually the most sane one there and it's all an act to keep his actively insane former colleagues from leaving Big Mountain and ushering in another dark age upon the Wasteland through things even worse than nightstalkers and cazadores, which are both things they made and blighted upon the land, and in the end before you leave you have to deal with them, either by talking them down or killing them all. If this DLC was done for Fallout 3 there wouldn't have been any deeper idea behind it like in New Vegas, it literally would've just been you help the whacky brains-in-jars kill the evil brain-in-a-jar and afterwards you would've just walked out without further explanation. I feel like Fallout 3 comes up with a lot of weird and whacky ideas but never really explores them in-depth or gives them any real meaning behind them, which is how you end up with stuff like a town just built around an active nuclear warhead or the exact same super-mutants from 1 and 2 just somehow showing up from across the damn continent.
Honestly i think you have it exactly backwards. Fallout 3 explores the many of the same themes that New Vegas and it's dlc's did. Only fallout 3 didn't tell the player about it straight up. It excepted and allowed the player to notice and understand it on their own. Its my one gripe with fallout new vegas. It breaks the number one cardinal rule of visual media so many times. Far too often It doesn't show. It tells. Through dialogues terminal entries and narration information dumps it tells the player what is happening, and what important characters are thinking. Instead of letting the player work things out through studying the scenery or subtleties in dialogue. All to often robbing you of the joy of discovery and analyzing. Most information that you will ever need will be told to you with no ambiguity or subtlety if you just find the right terminal or npc. Dead money and its narrative that it crams down your throat is the most horrible example of this. If only I could let go of the memory of that monstrosity.
mobious history is sad, the guy couldn't kill his friends so he brainwashed them and locked them up, but he couldn't handle the pressure, so he used drugs until he was an junkie that's only an shadow of his past self
7:21:00 Jon attempting to present tranquility lane as a "moral dillema" is trumped by the fact the karma system straight up tells you you're being evil for helping braun and being good for trapping him in the simulation forever. Ignoring how the game is actually written and presented in an attempt to pretend like it's somehow actually smart. There is literally 0 consequence to the world around you for your choice in the quest outside of "Dad isn't happy I tortured innocent people for fun"
I'm actually wrong. Dad doesn't even react to the Evil route of Tranquility Lane. I was getting mixed up with the single quest in the game that opens any kind of unique dialogue with him - Power Of The Atom. He goes "I'm disappointed but we'll talk about it later" or you can just lie about it. Then the Big Bad shows up and kills him. Good writing!
@@dadiscoverychannel I hate that shit, if you are a new player who doesn't immediately turn east and run to Smith Casey's garage you will spend more than half the game looking for your dad, only for him to just fucking die after 20 minutes.
@@dadiscoverychannel Liam Neeson actually kills him self by making the water purifier flood the room with radiation. How and why a water purifier would be able to do something like that is never explained.
Same with blowing up Megaton. Your dad just goes "Wow, that was really messed up, son/daughter. Anyway, take these fuses and take care of the mutants in the basement."
I love how he compares entering Project Purity which is either occupied by orcs or by your allies with entering El Dorado Substation which is occupied by NCR and might be the action that causes you to break favor with them and wipe their whole faction out. It's literally the point in the game where you have to pick your line in the sand regarding NCR if you haven't done so already. The point of no return.
@@spookydonutghosthouseNo. Fallout 1, Fallout 2, and Fallput New Vegas has supermutants. Bethesda in their games reduced them into generic no-name eternally hostile enemies. They've become bland bad guys, but yellow-green and bigger. Nothing more.
In terms of having something to show that there is a food source even in a tiny settlement was done in the very first settlement you visit in the very first game in the series. In Shady Sands, there are too many people wandering around for the 4 buildings that make up the town. But, travel to the eastern part of the town and you will find several rows of farmed foods, and a well to get water from.
I like how his video is titled "Fallout 3 is Better Than You Think", but it seems like half the video he's putting down New Vegas instead of talking about Fallout 3.
He's not putting down New Vegas just to put it down, it's literally his favourite game. He's just saying this is a shortcoming in New Vegas and it's not necessarily the same in Fallout 3, or if it is the same it doesn't get any flak for being in NV while it does in 3.
A funny anecdote I want to share. So in a recent run of Fallout 3 I did, I went straight to Rivet city from vault 101, just to see if I can. And yes I can do that. However, for some inexplicable reason, the moment I talked the guard standing before the entrance, I have the option to ask "Where is Dr Li?" despite the fact at this point in time my character should have no idea who Dr Li is or why are we looking for her. This goes to show how shallow Bethesda quest design philosophy is
In new Vegas you can also side skip about 60% of the primary quest, 90% if you go yes man. There's plenty of shallowness and half thoughts in new Vegas to
@@gofuckthyself420 yes, but the progression in New Vegas makes sense in terms of quest designs. You go to a location, explore for information and the quest will progress accordingly. You can't suddenly gain knowledge your character was not supposed to have. The courier needs to be in Benny's suite in order to have access to the yesman route and the quest will go from there. You don't just suddenly have the option in a dialogue to ask Victor "Where is Yesman?" like in the example I gave in my anecdote
@@SaintKuro except you can cheese plenty of quests in new Vegas the same way. In yes man you automatically know a tribe, what they believe and to make a decision on the end game result simply by walking within range of their settlement, don't even need to make actual contact.
@@SaintKuro hell you can go straight to Vegas from good springs and be able to tell swank that Benny is going against house, without any knowledge but that Benny shot you and took your package. You don't even know house yet you know Victor a securtion sure but not house.
As bad as Skyrim is, and I'm very aware of the massive flaws, i still have a deep love for the game. I play tons of different games spanning many different genres. I'm NOT a casual gamer by any measurement but i still love Skyrim. I even have objective reasons for liking it not just opinions. I feel no anger when i hear criticisms about the game. Why do fallout fans get mad?
It's not just Fallout fans, you get this for literally everything. Star Wars, MCU, DCEU, etc. A lot of people can't handle the things they love being criticized, even _if_ that criticism is entirely accurate and justified. Many seem to take it as a personal attack on themselves, as though by criticizing something, you're telling them they can't or aren't allowed like the thing, or something...It's really strange behavior.
@@Creetosis Aye. I didn't word the end of my comment very well. My main complaint with apologists is that without enough critics and criticisms we won't get good products. I'm completely expecting Elder Scrolls 6 to be shit. Bethesda know they can put in the bare minimum and still make a profit. "Rule of cool" and all that. Maybe Microsoft will put the boot to them but i won't get my hopes up.
@@Creetosis As long as the person criticizing isn't a jerk to people who like the thing under criticism, I'm completely fine with it. Taking criticism against something you like as a personal attack is just childish.
Same I really like Skyrim, on my first playthrough I liked it so much that I directly wanted to get all achievments (which I only do in games I like) sadly Im german so not able to get all achievments which is shit xD
@@thebuddah1253 I agree with your point but criticism in the gaming industry means very little and rarely ends up actually changing things. Bathesda is a prime example of this. Screw the critics, just keep releasing the same game for nearly a decade...
*_Fallout 3 is full of morally-interesting, multiple-solution quests, with hidden choices, in the main plot_* _(And by morally-interesting, I mean you can be a normal person, or cartoonishly evil)_ _(And by multiple-solution, I mean you can do a dungeon/fetch-quest, or not)_ _(And by hidden choices, I mean one alternative dialogue option locked behind in-universe knowledge)_ _(And by the main plot, I mean the combination of the main questline, and a specific sidequest that fits my current argument)_ _((And by combination, I mean only the latter))_ I think that's what InnuendoStudios would call a "ship-of-Theseus argument"
New Vegas did the "mutants on a doomed mission" idea mentioned at 3:14:29 better in Come Fly With Me. A band of nightkin searching for stealth boys, learning that there was a shipment sent to the REPCONN test site and getting violent when they couldn't find it. The outcomes for them are that either the player kills them, or the player sneaks past to avoid violence and gives their leader evidence that the stealth boys aren't there.
It's so funny how he fails to remember that killing Caser in New Vegas has consequences around the mojave. A bunch of new characters get new lines and you get new dialogue options. Compared to the dialogue option that lets the player not have a gun.
Not to mention killing Caesar is (SPOILERS FOR NV SIDEQUEST) the only way to make Chief Hanlon stop making false reports and convince him he was wrong WITHOUT Hanlon committing suicide. I ALWAYS thought that was some amazing writing, here's this old veteran so demoralized by the situation that he secretly sabotages his own country in an attempt to make the NCR pull out of this fiasco of a 'war'. He's in fact so certain of his beliefs due to his own experiences that the only way to convince him that he's truly wrong and that the Legion will fail, without killing himself, is by killing Caesar. Which in one motion proves how vulnerable the Legion is, but also puts the final nail in the Legions coffin, since Caesar was as integral to the Legion and Genghis Khan was to the real life Mongol Empire. Which also made me realize how similar those two leaders were which is really interesting to think about.
@@SOGTheGamer is that true? I missed that. See, THIS is an example of something being done so good and hidden well enough that a player could overlook it, and I've put over 1k hours into NV personally
@@Lezzy5829 it is true in base game, there is however, a cut option that isn't properly implemented in the game files, in camp mcarran, you can interrogate a legion centurion called Silus, if you have high intelligence you can convince him that you are working for the legion and get him to spill the beans about Ceaser's illness early in the game, but again, sadly it isn't implemented properly so it doesn't appear, you either need an specific mod or iirc John sawyer's directors cut mod for it to be enable
@@lonelyandrudeguy3594 yeah I remember seeing Silus in a cut content video. I guess I never paid attention to dialogue like that till recently. Playing games young will do that to you
I will readily admit that I’ve got rose tinted glasses when it comes to fallout 3. It’s the game that got me started in the fallout series and I would not of had the connection to it as I do now had I not played it. I will admit that the game is not as great as I remember, but the game holds a dear place in my heart.
Just don't let disingenuous points try and validate your feeling about something. It's damn disappointing that Many a True Nerd is just as terrible as HHBomberGuy with his strawmanning...
@@doomdimensiondweller5627 It matters cos it proves that John is straight up lying for some of his points. He knows where everyone lives when lots of the population are unamed NPCs? Sure, John.
@@doomdimensiondweller5627because in those games the cities were relatively huge so obviously not every individual could be name, it was also made 10 years prior. Fallout 3 has like 20 npcs in its big cities and the majority are unnamed, isn't that odd?
I enjoyed the time I spent with Fallout 3. I don't feel compelled to contrive and contort my way into defending its technical or structural shortcomings. Apparently this is a hard thing for people to grapple with, so they have to desperately assert that something is basically perfect to justify why they like it. It's okay to admit things like worldbuilding in Fallout 3 or dungeon design in Skyrim are mediocre at best. That doesn't mean you're an asshole for liking the flawed piece of media you like, because basically every piece of media has flaws. But angrily defending the flawed media as not actually flawed with flimsy and increasingly emotional reasoning _does_ make you an asshole.
Skyrim is a bordeline broken, often times shallow, and severely flawed game. And yet, it's still one of my favorite games ever and I'll play it again someday. Every piece of media ever is flawed, games more so than just about any other. it's perfectly fine to absolutely adore a game, but still recognize that at some level it's flawed
Hey, you know what else makes you an asshole? Acting like Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas are nothing short of the second coming of Christ and that ANYTHING made by Bethesda, regardless if it's really truly flawed or not, is the worst thing since cancer. Just throwing that out there.
Also gonna have to strongly disagree with you both on Fallout 3 and Skyrim having bad worldbuilding. Sure, they don't do the best of showing off the world or tying it and the story together. A good example of that is the Civil War in Skyrim, but the lore and the world it's self, as in geography, are literally Bethesda's biggest strength. Unless you are an absolutely militant hater of Bethesda, pretty everyone agrees that Bethesda's worldbuilding is stellar. Fallout 3 in particular is one of the most atmospheric and immersive games I've ever played. You can argue whether that atmosphere is correct for the franchise or the timeperiod, but to say it's bad on it's own, is just not correct. The train tunnels in 3 annoy most and I can understand why, but I actually thoroughly enjoy exploring them. I would say New Vegas's tendency to put gates everywhere in the city and surrounding areas is more annoying then the tunnels ever word. But that is subjective and the it isn't really Bethesda or Obsidian's fault because both, at least from what I am to understand, were answers to console/engine limitations at the time. The Gamebryo engine, ugh, don't get me started. Dungeon design in Skyrim, yeah, okay, fair enough.
@@TheHulk1850 When you're so triggered by a moderate opinion that mentions how stupid it is to emotionally fly off the handle about a video game, you emotionally fly off the handle about a video game.
Note: Lanius was always meant to have a facial scar to match the stories but engine limitations prevented it. He IS the guy of legends. You were never meant to really see his face as a player.
@@Synkronist Aye, Joshua Sawyer said it on a twitch stream they did. Lanius is the genuine article through-and-through. The same apply to Graham who has a piece of bandage headgear the player can’t remove - if you console it away or otherwise reveal his face, he’s just got a normal face underneath.
Yeah I couldn’t believe he tried to use that as part of his argument for why Lanius probably isn’t the original guy in the story. Not once do we see him without his helmet so why would they waste time designing that
No, we need to see his face to get any serious character emotion or development from him. How else can you get good reactions? /s /s /s Halo TV defenders, your defenses will be memed into oblivion.
I will never get over how Jon argues that Legate Lanius is "just some guy" compared to Colonel Autumn. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of how both characters are portrayed as antagonists: Lanius being a mythic figure Caesar uses to scare everyone, Autumn being a hunting dog for President Eden. It just highlights how ill-constructed his whole video turned out.
@Varsancton It's not easy per se, it takes quite a bit of checks to convince him to stand down and realize that the Legion can't hold onto the Dam for long
@Varsancton 90 speech is really high, the only other check i can think of off the top of my head that's that high allows you to talk down a group of jonesing nightkin from stealing the mk2 stealthboy and using it to upgrade all the others to feed their addiction to the fullest extent. In the case of Lanius he's also definitely not just a brute, both from the conversation with him and what Vulpes and Ulysses say.
@@elijahvelasco8963 But would Lanius care? Lanius does not care about the Legion in the slightest, he just wants to fight and conquer, so I have a very hard time believing that he would be able to be talked down and leave peacefully, just because the Legion wouldn't be able to hold it.
@@morganfitch8325 But he does care about the Legion at least somewhat. It's shown through those speech checks that he doesn't want the Dam to be the place where the Legion dies and falls apart. He'd rather go back and deal with everything happening there first than to stretch the Legion thin. Plus it takes quite a bit of convincing to talk him down in the first place
@@elijahvelasco8963 it's still the whole "you can talk the final boss into acting in the opposite way of what he has done for his whole life" thing that plague many CRPGs. In FO1 makes sense, in arcanum for example is forced as fuck. I'd say that on a sliding scals from The Master to Khergan Lanius is way closer to the latter.
I appreciate all your Fallout 3 footage during this response is your character going on a bloody murdering rampage in every region depending on the topic the response is covering 😂
The reason Lanius works is because he doesn't really represent one person. He is the combined ideology of the legion, something you have been fighting against (or with) and debating the entire game. It doesn't matter that he poofs into existence. The fact that other people wear the hat IS THE EXACT FUCKING POINT OF THE CHARACTER. HE is the quintessential definition of "an idea, not a person", and the ideology is what's important, not the individual man. That was the EXACT point New Vegas was trying to make. What a fucking STUPID argument by john. Sorry for caps, it just makes me so angry seeing people just utterly misunderstand a work they are criticising. Also if you have to tear down another work to defend one, it's not a good work.
This is the exact point I argued with my Discord. Lanius is the representation of the ideal legionarie and it subsequently doesn't matter who he is under the mask just what he represents with that mask on. I am so glad other people realized this and praise NV for this.
you can't argue with fallout 3 fans, they're low iq enough to play fallout 3, but not high enough to not get filtered in the starting area of new vegas.
It's actually a bit more literal with Lanius. When you ask around, try and put together his story, and compare everything to the man you meet? He's definitely not the tribal monster that championed the name to start. He's not a man, but a symbol for the Legion to rally behind, and enemies to fear. The actual Lanius is likely long dead, with you meeting the current successor to the armor.
But if those are supposed to be the CORE ideals of the legion. Why is it so easy to convince them to drop them, and run? IF he really is meant to be an idea not a person. Then the players interaction with him makes a mockery of the entire legion, and the game itself. Oh the legion are these completely crazy psychos with spears that don't even bow to machinegun fire, and are hellbent into making the rest of the world their slaves. But you can send them running with their tail between their legs if your 1 charisma having ass can blurt out the right consonants. The essential villain faction of the game drops any and all ideology at encountering resistance in favor of pragmatism, so their ideology was in the end null and void.
you know what i agree, not seeing Lanius once until end game is a much smarter execution. Because after hearing stories from Legion and Ulysses you know what kind of man he was but not by appearance, making it mysterious enough to know he could be a threat to you. Autumn shows up one scenario to another but hasn't done anything meaningful or feel as threatening to the player.
I also think that it was a smart way to have an "essential NPC" for himself to be there only when it was meant for you to fight him, that not only helped you know how he was and what he did by the words of the others like the Legion seems to use it as an intimidation strategy when you meet Vulpes, but it's way better than himself just being there in the legion compound being immortal until he isn't anymore.
I never heard of him cuz i didn't talked to chief Hanlon and Ulysses or any other legionary so his appearance was a surprise. Even more surprising was him one-hitting Boone in power armor and with anit-material rifle
You know something that would have made the Enclave seem more threatening, real, and legitimately dangerous? A scene where you return to a town you had to go to for a main quest and some side missions (maybe with a companion living there), only to find Autumns and his men dragging civilians from their homes and executing them in the streets, burning down homes, and destroying everything. Perhaps a cutscene type thing happens where Autumns drags the mayor/the optional companion out from their home by their hair, throws them down into the mud, and shoots them in the back of the head without batting an eye. Kinda like what Vulpes did to Nipton, but after letting you get to know these characters and town. An emotional gutpunch for those that cared, and a sign that the Enclave truly is a deadly and ruthless force. Make them a real presence that actually changes the face of the map permanently.
I find it laughably ironic he is going to critisize players for wanting to murder the children in Lamplight, but then questions the morality of killing slavers because "theyre people too"; lol ok "Sorry Penny, you may be enslaved, but mass murdering all these slavers is a bit mean"
In the "can't talk down the guard" section, he presents "running pass the guard as" a legitimate choice, but admonishes it in fallout 1 as illegitimate with the rats.
John Kendall is treated like those cave rats and the creatures in FO2's Temple of Trials, which is pretty awful. I guess it's because Bethesda feels a compulsion to have players start out as prisoners in their games, whereas in this instance he could've been a counterpart to Cameron whom you could at least pickpocket for the key or talk out of fighting. …How very contrived, especially if Amata's treated like dirt but is perfectly willing to tell her "backstabber" their dad left and indirectly killed Jonas.
I think my main problem with MATN's video is that so little of it is actually about trying to prove that Fallout 3 is better than you think. I think his video would be so much better if he never referenced New Vegas at all. Instead of focusing on what Fallout 3 does well and lifting it up, his strategy seems to be to criticize New Vegas and bring it down so that 3 and New Vegas don't seem to be that different in quality. I honestly think that there is some great untapped potential for a video that actually shows the things that Fallout 3 did well, because I do think that there are some parts of 3 that are fantastic and deserve more recognition. But such a video would have to acknowledge the shortcomings of Fallout 3, just like any honest critique of any game should do.
I can think of several things that make Fallout 3 "Better than you think" if you think that its a game that is not fun at all. I find a lot of Fallout New Vegas fans (Myself included,) do enjoy what Fallout 3 and 4 fans enjoy about those games. If I don't feel like doing the same quests I did in New Vegas and if I can turn my brain off, both those games suffice. The issue is many Fallout New Vegas fans that actually have thought about which game is their favorite instead of just simply jumping on "the one for smart people" already accept that Fallout 3 and 4 are fun, just not good RPGs.
@@Elitex62 Right. I am a huge FONV fan but I still played plenty of FO4 and FO3. When you’re a fan of the older FO games and you want to play the newer ones, you just have to accept that what you’re playing isn’t really fallout. It’s more of a dungeon crawling looter shooter, especially FO4. I can still enjoy these games. Not every game needs to be the best game you’ve ever played. The world of Fallout and the little stories and mysteries in each of the games allow me to play the more disappointing entries into the series. I can do all of that, while also believing that FO3 and FO4 don’t hold a candle to FONV. Which in my opinion is one of the best games ever made.
The reason why Lanius works and Autumn doesn't... Even though we SEE more of Autumn, he's not an effective villain. He isn't the guy in charge, he doesn't seem particularly bright or well spoken, physically he's no more intimidating than any other soldier we've seen (not even in power armor, for some reason)... he's just a grunt, that does things for Eden. The times we see him, HE doesn't actually do anything. His men capture us, he's almost killed by our father poisoning him with radiation, he pontificates to us before being called off by Eden so we can meet with him, then he just shows up at the end for us to blow his head off like he's no other common raider we've encountered. He's a boob. He's not effective as an opponent. As for Lanius, even without seeing the man for the majority of the game, his legend is built up. We see the things the Legion does that are brutal and horrific, they use terror tactics to demoralize their enemies. All of them idolize, almost deify Lanius. They talk about him, clearly scared, but also inspired by his conquests. Without ever seeing Lanius, we know this man is going to be an immense obstacle for us if we oppose the Legion, and when we finally meet him, he lives up to his reputation. He has a striking appearance, a commanding presence, a powerful voice and speaks clearly, confidently, if a bit bluntly. He doesn't seem stupid, certainly doesn't seem incompetent. He feels like a figure that the Legion would follow if Caesar fell, and wouldn't be at a total loss. He can even be reasoned with, because he's not strictly a one-dimensional henchmen for the guy that's actually in charge. THAT is why Autumn is just some guy, and Lanius is an adversary.
the virgin _"yOu aGaIn?"_ VS The Chad *"We shall see how brave you are when nailed to the walls of Hoover Dam, your body facing West so you may watch your world die."*
And yet, even after all that. Even after learning what kinda guy he is, that he KILLED his own men for surrendering...you can make him surrender...that doesn't make sense. Also Eden was never really the one I charge. Notice how every human in the base disobeyed Eden when Autumn said to kill you?
@@ORIGINALFBI If you call it a surrender or a retreat, he fights you anyway. He's not surrendering, he's not admitting defeat, and he's not retreating. You convince him to just leave, that Hoover Dam and the Mojave aren't important compared to keeping the Legion's conquered homeland maintained. You've convinced him that this is a losing battle of attrition, where the Legion would die off not from defeat by a enemy, but because the land can't support them if they attempt to spread out and hold it, and you use the previous failures at the dam and the NCR's failings as evidence of supporting that idea. So no, you don't convince him to "surrender", you convince him that win or lose, the dam and the Mojave aren't worth it to the Legion.
@@Gakusangi If he runs away from you, that's a surrender. And Lanius was described as the guy who would never surrender. You're just coming up with excuses. This is even worse than getting the proof to get The Master to surrender. Because at least he was the kind guy who would realize his plan is doomed. There's a reason Ceaser uses the bull as a symbol. Whe. Bulls see red, they don't stop.
@@ORIGINALFBI That's not an excuse, there's context. If you want to ignore all the context then you can make up whatever you want, but it doesn't make it true. Just because you disregard the dialogue doesn't change why Lanius leaves or why you were able to convince him to and what the means. Next time, try coming up with an argument that isn't immediately countered by what's in the script that anyone can read for themselves, it just makes you look stubbornly dismissive.
Megaton being a crater lake in rainy DC honestly sounds like a much more interesting idea than what Megaton is in-game. Maybe some settlers found a little settlement at the crater lake, not knowing there was a literal bomb at the bottom of it. Then the bomb started leaking radiation, and the people didn't find out until it was too late. Turning many into corpses, while turning others into feral ghouls. Now it sits as a permanent reminder and lesson to all those who remember the town's story: Make sure your water is fucking clean.
Megaton doesn't make sense to begin with, either. The water pipes are leaking for one, even Shamus Young points out in The Blistering Stupidity of Fallout 3 how and why that town is so nonsensical.
Because you don't need 8 hours to say a game is bad. NV fans lose their minds when you enjoy 3 over NV or say "I think it's better." This guy is literally the type of NV fan everyone makes fun of
I think the complaint of the video length is pretty valid. That's an entire work shift's worth of time for a lot of people, and I'm sure Creetosis could of trimmed a lot of what was said, left out a lot of the less imperative counter points to MAAD' s video, and so on. "Brevity is the soul of wit."
@@idontexist1086 also that's not what MATN(Many a True Nerd) or Creetosis said or did. MATN misrepresented his opposition as those who wanted the roleplay ability to KILL CHILDREN(camp searchlight) based on them wanting "violent solutions." Now personally I don't consider murder the only violent thing possible, in fact I'd go as far to say that you can be violent and not directly hurt anyone. Such as, I don't know, detonating a gate with explosives? Creetosis was calling MATN out on his terrible arguments, misrepresentation of the facts, and lying. Calling out nonsense takes an extra order of time as it does to make stuff up so when Creetosis called out MATN on ALL(2 hour video) of it, it took 4x as long (8 hours). Now to be fair, he could've made a shorter video with more time and effort, something like 6 or maybe 4 hours. Creetosis also could've fragmented the video into multiple parts to make the excessively long video less daunting to watch.
@@idontexist1086 You are a typical bethesda fanboy. You refuse to hear the actual arguments someone is saying instead you make shit up and insult because you lack the capacity for rational discussion.
For your dungeon listing, you didn't mention the two other outdoor areas infested with deathclaws: Gypsum Trainyard, and the unmarked one north east of Cottonwood Cove: Deathclaw Promontory. That specific area is unmarked but has level-based Deathclaws (blinds, young, adults, etc all based on your level when you enter to spawn the enemies in the cell) and it has the only suit of Remnant Power Armor in the game not being worn by a member of the Enclave Remnants. So while New Vegas has maybe fewer 'dungeons' than Fallout 3's actual dungeons, they all feel more meaningful, most cases anyway. Obsidian's New Vegas is all about quality over Bethesda's Fallout 3's quantity and set-piece design.
@@gh05tnoh24 Would you be surprised if I told you that even after all these years, I have yet to discover every last side quest? I know a few still elude me to this day.
@@gh05tnoh24 ok but you gotta understand fallout 3 was the first 3d fallout. so duh its not gonna be as good as later fallout games. fallout 3 is and will forever be my favorite fallout game
you're allowed to enjoy whatever you want because you are you and only you can judge the feeling it imparts. Just because something is bad by societal standards to keep quality high doesn't mean that you can't have a personal opinion or even argue that it's good from a more emotional standpoint. and I have to say all of this because one of my favourite horror games is called. "A poop in the dark"
I can actually agree that the NV intro didn't need everything contained in it, because the game does give you all that info anyway. However, I think it's a good hook, and it's nice to lay the groundwork. The problem with 3 is that it's so simple because there's nothing to tell us; there's a blasted wasteland, and the BoS is fighting muties, and there might be some Enclave around somewhere doing who-knows-what. There's no depth to it, so the game has no need to share anything, as it's all about style and big reveals. In NV, even though the intro information might be redundant, it's just a very basic primer; there's so much more to learn about these factions, how they operate, their history, this conflict, the future of the Mojave.
I like it because it tells a neutral story of what's happening whereas anyone you talk to will have their own take on the various factions so it's not really redundant
Also notice how the rest of the game barely acknowledges the BoS and the Enclave and even the 200 year long water crisis in Fallout 3. Meanwhile, *damn near everyone* is worried about the NCR and the Legion and their years long war in the Mojave and has something to say about it in New Vegas.
@@Creetosis It’s the first time I’ve heard an argument and thought the person being purposefully disingenuous would make them a better person than if they actually believed their bullshit. I can’t believe this man can’t see the optics of that argument lol.
I just want to say I disagree heavily with the idea that Goodsprings isn't visually interesting. It immediately comes across as a unique location within the world of Fallout because it's styled like an Old Western town, which is a perfect introduction for a game that can be effectively called a Western post-apocalypse game.
Well since good springs is based heavily on the actual town of goodsprings, as are a fuckton of other towns , city's and landmarks in mojave/ Nevada, that is why they actually look good. I don't think the capital wasteland is anything but random gamer assets. Also,, There really is a giant helios one you can see on the north side of I-15 I mean Long 15 on the way to Las, I mean New Vegas.
I picked up NV a long time ago since it was on sale and I loved Fallout 3. I played for maybe 30 minutes and stopped BECAUSE I found Goodsprings boring as hell. I just didn't really have much interest in it and the tutorial. Just a year ago I finally picked it up again and I forced myself to play until I reached Vegas itself (since I wanted to give it an honest attempt) and I really enjoyed it. Now I play it off and on whenever I want to goof around and discover some new town I never knew existed. Anyways my point is I disagree. Goodsprings was the worst part about my NV experience and I personally feel the game would have been better off with a different starting area. But that's just my opinion.
its sad to think that there are actual people out there who make a claim on a topic and then when someone rebuttals it, they turn around are like "im not reading all that lol i won just face it"
@@myyoutube4906 no it was a comment shown somewhere in the video where someone says “while you have a wall of text, I have actual proof” and links 3 flowers at Arlington cemetery to life in the wasteland
There's a difference between "I'm not reading all that" and not being up for watching something that is longer than the original Lord of The Rings Trilogy (and nearly as long as the combined extended versions).
thats such a chad thing to do, completely reduces the opposing argument to pretentious autistic ramblings "im not reading that" is so powerful also i cant read
The part where MATN rambles about how brilliant FO3 is for putting shit off the beaten path makes no sense to me. In NV you can absolutely just run past 90% of that content. I kept finding new stuff on said path I had never seen before like 5 playthroughs in. In FO3 once you run through everything on your first go that's pretty much it. I think I only missed like 2 locations in the DC ruins on my first run of FO3. I have a feeling that the people that say "well NV just feels so much more empty" are actually braindead, because NV literally has tons of content centered around different hubs across the map. FO3 has Megaton, Rivet City and then like 5 Megaton-lite places and super mutant camps 10 meters from every settlement. It's just a post apocalyptic map filled with dungeons and no replayability.
Broc flower cave was only good for Ratslayer, and a bit of caps, the shack was good for a BB gun, the shack that you get the Chopper from is only good for that.
@@Lance-The-BoS-Lancer And a nice reference to ROUS' if you have wild wasteland on, and if you find the caravan there you can find the lincolnn memorial head strapped to it's back. And those things weren't really dungeons. They were quick entry caves and/or a small shack.
29:40 Is he forgetting Arcade Gannon in New Vegas? If you convince him to fight with the enclave you don't get his power armor and he uses it in the battle at hoover dam
@@AgentDanielCross that when his character model legit walks through the ending cards? Had that happen twice and didn't know why an npc that was dead was walking through the ending slides
Fallout 3 would have been so much better if they just set it soon after the war. Maybe even sooner after the war than fallout 1 and 2. They had it on the other side of the world anyway. Then they could have their abundance of prewar tech, weapons, scavenged food. See how the first people to come out of vaults barely managed to scrape by on scavenged food, the vaults food sources or stores would be competed for, desperate people resort to radioactive creatures. Bethesda could have even kept the enclave in. It would make sense for them to be on the east coast and for no one in fallout 1 or 2 to know about it. It would be some fanfic stuff but it would be feasible that they have an east coast refuge in the apocalypse like the oil rig but on the east coast. Or they could have missions sent out from the oil rig to other parts of the wasteland before they get blown up in fallout 2. Hell I would even be okay if F.e.v. is in one of the vaults or with the enclave thing. Id it such a stretch that the government could have two military bases with f.e.v.? But Bethesda wanted to keep the brotherhood of steel in the game. Some other faction besides the big baddies that had been out getting prewar tech before normal wastelanders. So they made it set way afterword but then kept the world design in recent apocalypse mode.
Setting Fallout 3 early after the great war seems to address many of the problems it has. I'd be fine with this version of the game, but on several other conditions: * No brotherhood of steel * The world must be consistent in showing and telling you about the lack of clean water. Which means more sidequests related to it (settlements trying to dig wells, create small improvised inefficient purifiers of their own, etc) and making Hardcore mode mandatory. * Multiple factions (that are not wacky and weird jokes like in vanilla F3) are vying for control of the purifier. * Enclave can be joined. But joining them is a difficult process.
Honestly, that would be interesting..the BoS could be replaced with US army remnants and their descendants/recruits, which would still fill the role the BoS did
@@DJWeapon8 couple problems: Mandatory hardcore mode sounds awful. I think there’s a good reason why NV made it optional, which is to make it a fun little challenge for players. Joining the enclave shouldn’t be possible unless they’re starved for people. Enclave members see themselves as pure and the last members of American society, so I honestly agree with colonel autumn’s stance of killing the mongrel player after they give him the purifier code. Even in Fallout 2 there wasn’t a way to join the enclave because they’re an extremely inclusive faction.
Dungeons in RPGs is one of the laziest dumb shit ever. I get the use of a "dungeon" to tell a contained story, but just because NV doesn't have that many "classic dungeons" as in "linear bs filled to the brim with damage sponge enemies" doesn't mean it doesn't tell it's own stories in different locations. Locations that actually make sense not "way too elaborate metro service station #267 filled with more super mutants".
5:43:03 "It ends up feeling like Fallout themed amusement park" THIS is what have been on my tongue. I couldn't say what exactly was wrong with F3 besides lack of stuff to do. The (one of) biggest problem is that the world feels so... Dull, raw, static. Like a cheap carnival attraction.
@@potbem5333 but one would rightfully expect a drastic improvement after a decade instead of trying to justify "eh if it was like that earlir then it will be okay now". Besides, Morrowind atleast has a good story and lore background.
That’s how I feel about 3 and 4. 4 while a very pretty game just feels like a shooter game with fallout thrown on top. The weak dialogue options and the Perks! just feel overused. Dialogue in the game and 3 is more of hassle than anything else. I don’t feel like I have much of a choice in 3 or 4. It’s very black and white as to what to do and who to side with. Feels weak
"Lack of stuff to do" The game was never made to be an elder scrolls, there's only a hand full of missions and things to do, because it was tightly designed The game is more story focused. People judge fallout 3 through the frame of it being a Bethesda game, and not what its actually doing. A tight narrative driven RPG light, with exploration and choices.
At least you can actually JOIN THE LEGION in NV, whereas the closest you can do to “aiding the Enclave” is poisoning the water for absolutely no reason. Imagine if cooperating with Autumn from the very beginning allowed you to work for/join the Enclave? Would have added a LOT more replayability and could have lead to a lot of interesting bonuses and negatives (easy access to the best tech with trade offs being most of the capital wasteland hates your guts/having to deal with the brotherhood as basic ideas) It’s laughable for Jon to compare Lanius and Autumn on any level, given that the way each game handles interacting with those factions is so astronomically different. I’d argue you can’t even really call the Enclave in Fallout 3 a “faction”. They’re basically raiders with power armor and better weapons with how they’re treated outside of the final push to purity and raven rock.
@@zekun4741 Yeah, this applies to every nearly every faction in the game, save the Kings and the Brotherhood. But that is effectively what happens with the Legion, the semantics of what joining strictly means aren't important, same with the NCR. You never "join" them but you might as well be the most important member they have, given what you end up doing for them if siding with them.
@@danielgorbun9507 This. I see people say they would like to have been able to join the Enclave so you can get more choices, and I definitely understand that, but the lore of the series is that if you aren't already a part of the Enclave, then you are seen as not human/pure/etc. If you had been able to join the Enclave, you'd see criticism for that for not being lore friendly.
I actually have strong feelings about outer New Vegas. I spent a lot of time there, watching the NPCs, the rat chasing children, the junkies, the raiders, the Followers of the Old Mason Fort. It had an odd charm to me.
You’re thinking of Freeside, he was talking about the area just outside of that. The issue is, he’s still wrong, that’s where the Gun Runners, Crimson Caravan, and New Vegas Clinic are, basically the three best vendors in the game.
Hilarious that literally every single criticism of this video boils down to "bro why do you care so much" and big ol' strawmen. Super predictable, but hilarious.
Somehow the "Why do you care so much?!" never happens when people agreed in MATN's Fallout 3 video. Guess this completely arbitrary time limit they put on themselves only works one way.
His argument about NV not having "rewards at the end of the dungeon" is precisely the mentality that, when implemented, is what made fallout 4 and Skyrim so much worse. Bethesda sacrificed actually good writing and mechanics in favor of material rewards for everything the player does
And also, most unique weapons are indeed tied to dungeons, but most of em are from dungeons that have quests (such as the Euclid C finder or that unique laser rifle in the plant vault) but, when there are unique items on the world it can be like A: Gobi sniper rifle, a cool item tied in with a nice tidbit of lore wich explains why it is thrown around B- things like the Paladin toaster, that make sense on the worldbuilding: it is in a cave near HELIOS 1, where the former brotherhood ocupation justifies the presence of an weapon fashioned to deal with Power Armor So , even with the fact that there are less reward lying around, New Vegas actually makes the rewards have a sensible place in the world
Also, what does he mean? A lot of Dungeons have rewards at the end of them/inside of them. Just because there isn't a LOOTBOX9000 Chest doesn't mean there aren't rewards. Vault 34 literally has an Armory at the bottom of it. Vault 22 has the AER14 Prototype. Love and Hate drop off a Raider Boss. Blade of the East comes from defeating the final boss. Oh Baby! comes from Charleston Cave. Beating The Thorn gets you Dinner Bell. The Q-35 Matter Modulator is in the REPCONN HQ. (One of the first main dungeons) There's a lot of places where you're rewarded for reaching, or hitting the end. It's just factually incorrect. Did he even play the game?
@@gumhoy5054 apparently not, or if he did, he didn't stray much off the beaten path. Apparently he wants the clearly denoted fallout 4 or Skyrim style unique chest model at the end of the dungeon, in every dungeon, to be full of some kind of reward..like "you won the dungeon, here's your prize"
It's also weird of him to say that, considering New Vegas has a host of unique weapons, armor, skill books, snow globes scattered throughout the world. Just about every location the game doesn't direct you to through a quest at the very least has one of those things, usually a skill book, which is obviously a reward. And a big enough at that, that the player will always seek out random locations just in the hopes of finding these skill books since that's the only way to max out your skills. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, could be that Educated is also enough.
@@markusala-turkia3079 it's not the only way to max out your skills, since you can hit 100 across multiple skills pretty easily. The books do, however, make it faster to do so, or allow you to start funneling points into secondary or tertiary skills sooner. You're right on there being skill books, magazines, snow globes, and unique weapons off the beaten path though. The marksman carbine in the vault 34 armory, as well as Lucky and the unique 9mm SMG in Primm stand out as good examples. The carbine and Lucky are in areas where quests will take you, but still require deviating from the direct path, and investing in lockpicking, and the SMG is an unmarked quest that requires investment in science and examining the case it's supposed to be in, as well as legwork to actually track it down. Tbh, I'd like to see *more* side adventures requiring the use of one's brain like that, and the one in fo3 for the unique Chinese assault rifle, not less
Even as a teenager I didn’t find Fallout 3 very interesting despite being my first Fallout, same with Skyrim on the elder scrolls series. It was not until Fallout NV came out that I found interest in the series. My friends were playing Skyrim and I was playing Fallout NV. I started to notice little things in the NV like the legion attacking wandering merchants, gangs ambushing me throughout the main roads, etc. All of these things built the world, adding to realism of the world which added to my immersion. I noticed quests like whitewash, that lucky old sun, and wang dang atomic added more choice but also had creative outcomes to the quest. Caesar is a great example of making a complex faction that is based heavily on Roman history, and makes sense in the world because of the world building.
when he said he can't find another example during the tutorial bit, I just bursting laughing the quest about the omereta in new vegas quite literally done everything he complain about 1) when you and cachino going to meet up with big sal and nero, he's going to give you a gun so you can shoot them, but with speech check, you can convince him to keep the gun and be the element of surprise so he will join the shootout 2) after you found out troike smuggle the omereta with weapons, he will give you thermite so you can destroy the weapon cache in the basement, but you could "convince" him to do it himself, and he'll do it, he won't survive it, but you can 3) making cachino start talking require to gain any information about him, which having you to hold his ledger, that could be obtained with 2 ways, having a high enough lockpick skill or talk to the receptionist and get his room key it's funny all of that actually still in one omereta quest, it's not even beyond the beef where you could have at least 7 ways to complete it
Not to mention the fact that Amata needing that gun in the first place is a colossal reach anyway. I mean think about it. She says your dad left the vault and that there's security guards hunting you down everywhere. She gives you a gun and says you're gonna need it. Why would you say "No, keep it, you'll need it more"? No one would expect The Overseer to forcefully interrogate his own daughter that he loves more than the entire rest of the vault and we had nothing to tip us off that his head of security is a nut case that would beat a 17 year old girl!
Honestly it took me many replays of fallout 3 and new vegas to change my mind and realise the New Vegas was the better game for me. Its far more replayable and had a richer world with more depth to characters etc. I originally loved the 'emptiness' of the Fallout 3 world, as it felt more like a barren post-apocalyptic wasteland but I then realised its too empty...you can have a barren nuclear wasteland and still have it feel rich with lore, characters with depth and meaningful choices. Thats what New Vegas was. It was only on my second or third playthrough of NV that I realised what I once thought was an overly settled and 'busy' wasteland was simply a world that felt more 'alive' with characters who felt more real.
@@TTTT-pn3ly Thanks! I've found myself revisiting new vegas time and time again over FO3. I'm actually only just getting round to completing every DLC as on my first playthroughs I gave up on Dead Money because of how hard it was. Every playthrough feels different. I played The Outer Worlds and while I liked it, it was too short to be a AAA RPG
The tragic part is, with 2 main antagonists for the Enclave there is alot they could have done to make them significantly less generic for fairly little additional effort. They could have easily played off the man vs computer dynamic they had going to give 2 completely different viewpoints on the same issue. With Eden being representative of the Enclaves cruel unfeeling pragmatism, with him being a ZAC, he could justify his actions not with morality,but with pure,cold mathematics to prove his point, Quoting the extremely high rates of miscarriages, the fact that the mutant's are just like, objectively negative for the east coast,high infant death rates in the wastelands etc. Mathematically speaking, nothing that he's saying is incorrect. In terms of pure numbers wiping the slate clean would, in the long run, be better for humanity and likely cause less fatalities and suffering than letting a radiation infested humanity trudge on with all it's defects. Autumn meanwhile would be the Human face of the Enclave, representing there blind patriotic values. Somebody who genuinely wants a better future for America, And is not above doing horrible things to innocent people in order to do his "Duty" to his nation, be it due to childhood indoctrination, or even just simple fanaticism. 2 sides of the same coin, Both complicit in the attempted destruction of the wasteland, but for different reasons. This set-up alone gives them so much more room to give the enclave depth, fuck if they want more endings they could have easily lined up the domino's for an Enclave cival war over the morality of project purity, with the player being allowed to decide if they will side with the reformists to make a more compassionate enclave, or the purists, should they beleive that the ends ALWAYS justify the means. Leaving the player to decide what price is too high to pay for a better future, or to reject the enclave entirely. Obviously this is just a very rough draft I made up rn, but a couple of weeks of story Boarding, and you could make a genuinely decent conflict out of the enclave Instead of making them generic bad guy faction 77798546225
This was absolutely amazing, me and my friend spend hours rewriting fallout 4 to be better, and you adding a simple dynamic made Fallout 3 infinitely better, and I just want you to know that I absolutely love what you've written
I reinstall Fallout 4 after watching Many True Nerds, but I find myself installing vampire mod and become excited about the mod more than the game itself. I enjoy Fallout 4 as a playground for fan mods, but get bored incredibly quick playing it vanilla. If they make dialogue interesting like previous mainline Fallout games, I may let all the quest issues go with no complain. I enjoy the combat system, but that's not the point of why I love the franchise at all.
Yeah, I think the best take I've seen on it is "If you NEED mods to enjoy the game, then the game probably isn't very good." I think a lot of people defending these games also mistake their modded experience for what the vanilla games actually are.
@@JonnieColeits your opinion to say both games are incredible, its also his opinion to say fallout 3 sucks. He gives out many of the reason he thinks this way during his critic of many a true nerd’s video. I could say it’s ridiculous that you think fallout 3 is incredible but I don’t because that’s your opinion so don’t call someone else’s opinion ridiculous just because it doesn’t aline with yours.
I'm usually a supporter of "rule of cool", but when it completely shatters all sense of suspension of disbelief or hinders player freedom then we're dealing with something that needs some fixing. Rule of cool isn't an excuse for something that just can't work or impedes the player in an irritating way.
@@elecman748 Rule of cool can work if it breaks a minor rule or two, but if it's a high amount of things that suddenly do make sense or something huge that wouldn't allow it to work, then it's just not a good idea. No-one will be able to dismiss the things it goes against if take it that far.
7:30:43 you forgot to mention that under Mr House or Independent Vegas endings you CAN do only certain faction quests and it will make sense. Many pretends like it makes no sense for you to do quests outside of your faction, ignoring the fact that Mr House doesn't actually hate NCR and in independent ending you decide whatever you wanna do.
Even on a much broader end of that topic you can actually successfully play through a large portion of the game leveling your character without actually committing in any real direction. You can even commit to the extent of eliminating Mr. House and still remain "Accepted" by both NCR and Legion, so yes you absolutely would do quests outside of your eventual preferences because the game doesn't lock you in that quickly. If you utilise your faction pardon you get after killing off Benny you can actually push this pretty far too, but of course as Jon said, you definitely must focus on one faction.
@@thomaswf7284 not even that, you can literally be liked by EVERY faction in the game if you so chose. You can role-play as a character who doesn't want to make an enemy of anybody. I'm at a stage in my main story where I've just killed Mr. House and because of the way I've played the game, I'm Acceped by Goodsprings, I'm liked by the Powder Gangers and BOS, and I'm Idolised by NCR, Legion, Followers, Khan's, Boomers and White Gloves (also idolised by all other locations like the Strip and Novac) Eventually you'll make an enemy of the NCR or Legion, but the game makes it possible to be liked by 7/8 factions by the endgame. On the flipside, it's incredibly easy to be vilified by them all. That's what gives New Vegas so much replayability. It still baffles me how you can never side with the Enclave and take over the purifier alongside them. It would have given fallout 3 twice as many options, albeit still only 2
@@jonathanday5647 Woah hold it right there pal how you got accepted by Goodsprings and liked by Powder Gangers? How to even get such positive rep with both factions that hate each other?
@Daniel Survivor you can save the goodsprings settler during Sunnys tutorial to get accepted. Then instead of helping Ringo, just head to the NCRCF to help out thr powder gangers or the powder gangers in the Vault
@@jonathanday5647 Does Goodsprings even get faction ending if you never do their quest?(by faction ending I mean NCR end slide where they get taxed or Mr House end slide where Victor comes to Goodsprings etc)
Timecodes for the larger points being made:
(If anyone has suggestions for additional timecodes, feel free to suggest them!)
0:00 - Intro
17:51 - Vault 101/First area you play in/First thing the game tutorializes is most important/New Vegas starts off with the Gecko Hunt, "skill checks only come in quite a bit down the line"
54:33 - Megaton
1:35:04 - Power of the Atom
2:00:20 - Dealing with Moriarty and Silver, Choice in Fallout 3
2:09:40 - "The vast majority of Fallout 3's quests have choice!"/Little Lamplight/IndigoGaming being taken out of context
2:39:23 - The part where Many A True Nerd takes IndigoGaming's quote and applies it to an entirely different part of the game in order to debunk it
2:48:47 - Return to Megaton
3:00:07 - Super Mutants
3:23:03 - The Brotherhood of Steel
3:41:47 - "You see, disliking Fallout 3 is a game with some crazy rules, like it's totally okay to criticize Fallout 3 for doing something that Fallout New Vegas did and then just politely pretend New Vegas is invisible for a minute."
3:50:21 - "At least Autumn showed up! Lanius is just some guy!"
4:32:01 - Fallout 3's ending
4:49:59 - A tangent completely unrelated to the quality of Fallout 3 about the supposed lack of dungeons in New Vegas
5:10:55 - The story/Jon makes a snide comment about angry comments again
5:43:37 - Jon takes Hbomberguy out of context and strawmans him
6:17:13 - Fallout 3's main story: Not enough solutions, Not enough consequences, Morally Uninteresting
7:32:24 - "New Vegas has too many optimal solutions"
7:42:05 - "Fallout 3 shows off the horror of the post-apocalypse, the previous only had encounters relevant to the current world!"
7:50:12 - The terrible shooting is good, because you're an inexperienced teenager
Timecodes for pretty much every point in the video:
0:00 - Intro
6:45 - Start of MATN's video
17:51 - First area you play in/First thing the game tutorializes is most important
25:07 - "New Vegas started you off with the gecko hunt, skill checks come in quite a bit down the line."
28:34 - "No freedom, no choice, no skill check resolutions, no opportunity for roleplay"
32:34 - "Escape!" choices
35:39 - Can't talk down the guard
39:09 - "I honestly don't know what more people could want!"/Intro too long
46:46 - Fallout 3's post-vault introduction
49:56 - Fallout 3 starts you in the middle of the map
54:33 - Megaton
58:07 - "It's odd to build a town around a nuke."
1:03:21 - Shandification of Fallout/Megaton Eats Molerats
1:23:37 - Megaton's Water
1:35:04 - Power of the Atom
1:43:51 - Lack of Impact for destroying Megaton
1:49:38 - Nukes as a theme
2:00:20 - Dealing with Moriarty and Silver, Choice in Fallout 3
2:09:40 - "The vast majority of Fallout 3's quests have choice!"/Little Lamplight
2:11:49 - Strawmanning about Realism
2:21:28 - Misdirection, Avoiding the actual issue while debunking criticisms that weren't actually made
2:27:03 - Rescue From Paradise
2:33:20 - Is mass murdering slavers morally grey?
2:39:23 - The part where Many A True Nerd takes IndigoGaming's quote and applies it to an entirely different part of the game in order to debunk it
2:43:03 - A Comparison to freeing slaves in Fallout 1
2:45:21 - Comparing child murder to nuking Megaton (spoiler, he's wrong.)
2:48:47 - Return to Megaton
2:50:13 - Starting Replicated Man in Megaton
2:52:17 - Amount of quests in the first town in Fallout 3 VS Fallout 1
2:55:16 - Metro Tunnels
3:00:07 - Super Mutants? In MY Fallout 3? It's more likely than you think!
3:17:47 - Jon draws a false parallel between Vault 13 and Vault 87
3:23:03 - The Brotherhood makes their contractually obligated appearance
3:30:41 - Jon claims the standard Brotherhood arc has always been about opening up
3:41:47 - "You see, disliking Fallout 3 is a game with some crazy rules, like it's totally okay to criticize Fallout 3 for doing something that Fallout New Vegas did and then just politely pretend New Vegas is invisible for a minute."
3:50:21 - "At least Autumn showed up! Lanius is just some guy!"
4:24:41 - "It makes more sense to talk Autumn down, than Lanius."
4:25:17 - "Lanius was obsessed with fighting."
4:32:01 - Fallout 3's ending
4:37:28 - Jon claims Broken Steel fixes Fo3's ending and fails to understand the criticism against it
4:42:17 - Big WOW moments
4:47:17 - Fallout 3 based it's quest around setpieces, entranceway showmanship
4:49:59 - A tangent completely unrelated to the quality of Fallout 3 about the supposed lack of dungeons in New Vegas
4:58:04 - Jon straight up fucking invents an explanation for why there are "few dungeons" in New Vegas, rather than accepting the obvious answer
5:10:55 - The story/Jon makes a snide comment about angry comments again
5:22:43 - A comparison of intros
5:29:56 - "Writing and plot," Jon talks about dialogue
5:43:37 - Jon takes Hbomberguy out of context and strawmans him
6:03:05 - Jon fails to understand the difference between skipping menial tasks and deeply developed quests
6:05:40 - An incredibly pointless comparison of maps in order to make an incredibly contrived argument
6:13:42 - "Fallout 3's story is decentralized"
6:17:13 - Fallout 3's main story: Not enough solutions, Not enough consequences, Morally Uninteresting
6:19:36 - "Quests don't have enough interesting ways to solve them"
6:28:23 - People assumed there weren't enough options because they didn't explore enough to find them
6:35:55 - "There aren't sufficient consequences for your actions"
6:41:15 - "People didn't see the consequences and assumed they weren't there"/Jon uses the random event system to defend a lack of consequences
6:48:10 - Jon mistakes something being missed due to low chances of spawning for extreme subtlety
6:53:11 - Jon completely misses Fallout 4's dumbing down being a continuation of what happened to Fallout 3, blames critics for it
6:58:42 - The Radio: Provides constant feedback, ThreeDog VS Mr. New Vegas
7:09:13 - Morality in Fallout 3 VS New Vegas
7:13:04 - A extremely obvious cherry picked example to attempt to "prove" New Vegas doesn't really have moral questions/"New Vegas only has two quests with a moral question"
7:17:00 - Oasis/Trouble On The Homefront/Tranqulity Lane
7:23:04 - Tenpenny Tower
7:27:49 - The Karma System/Jon makes a self-defeating argument
7:32:24 - "New Vegas has too many optimal solutions"
7:36:57 - "New Vegas is a post-post apocalypse"
7:42:05 - "Fallout 3 shows off the horror of the post-apocalypse, the previous only had encounters relevant to the current world!"
7:50:12 - The terrible shooting is good, because you're an inexperienced teenager
7:53:21 - Fallout 3 turns you into an explorer
8:00:31 - "Everything comes together for a sensation of exploration"
8:06:09 - Jon Concludes his video
Timecodes for the music used, so if there's a track you like, you can find it:
0:00 -- Main Menu -- Fallout 3
2:03 -- Don't Freeze Up -- Rimworld
7:03 -- To A Distant Place -- Breath of Fire III
11:15 -- Valley of Corrupted Gravity/Home of Gigantos -- Legend of Dragoon
14:29 -- Metallic Monks -- Fallout 1
18:58 -- Human 2 -- Warcraft II
24:30 -- Drumbeat of the Dunmer -- Morrowind
27:13 -- Carrion Waves -- Warcraft III
34:39 -- Fighting Man -- Breath of Fire III
36:55 -- Milkyway Battle -- FTL: Faster Than Light
40:24 -- Black Castle/Vellweb -- Legend of Dragoon
48:34 -- Overworld Music 02 -- Dragon Warrior VII
52:35 -- Fall of the Hammer -- Oblivion
53:56 -- Orc 2 -- Warcraft II
58:14 -- Wasteful Anthem -- Mother 3
1:03:58 -- Fancy Meat Computer -- Hylics 2
1:09:12 -- Wingly Forest -- Legend of Dragoon
1:13:35 -- Stormclouds on the Battlefield -- Morrowind
1:15:46 -- Donden -- Breath of Fire III
1:18:31 -- Team Plasma Battle Theme -- Pokemon Black & White
1:21:22 -- Colonial Battle -- FTL: Faster Than Light
1:25:24 -- Forbidden Land Battle -- Legend of Dragoon
1:30:27 -- Natural Killer Cyborg -- Mother 3
1:34:00 -- Boss Theme 1 -- Terraria
1:36:44 -- Chaos Bringer -- Rimworld
1:42:28 -- Battle In The Coming Days -- Breath of Fire III
1:48:52 -- Bright Spears, Dark Blood -- Morrowind
1:52:33 -- Forbidden Land -- Legend of Dragoon
1:58:48 -- Orc 4 -- Warcraft II
2:03:07 -- Porky's Porkies -- Mother 3
2:12:59 -- Turning Point -- Breath of Fire III
2:15:37 -- Battle 1 -- Final Fantasy IX
2:18:11 -- Boss Battle 1 -- Legend of Dragoon
2:23:40 -- Bloody Blades -- Oblivion
2:25:02 -- That's A Big Stick -- Hylics 2
2:32:53 -- The Biggest Little City In The World -- Fallout 2
2:36:20 -- Human 3 -- Warcraft II
2:39:37 -- Unfounded Revenge -- Mother 3
2:45:48 -- Team Magma/Aqua Leader Battle -- Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald
2:49:16 -- Lloyd's Theme -- Legend of Dragoon
2:57:05 -- Here It Comes -- Rimworld
3:05:33 -- Vats of Goo -- Fallout 1
3:10:05 -- Technology -- Breath of Fire III
3:12:33 -- Dance of Swords -- Morrowind
3:15:58 -- Bothersome Guys -- Mother 3
3:20:40 -- Doomhammer's Legacy -- Warcraft III
3:27:34 -- Boss 2 -- Terraria
3:32:20 -- World Map 2 -- Legend of Dragoon
3:38:02 -- City of the Dead -- Fallout 1
3:42:54 -- Battle 2 (Boss) -- Final Fantasy IX
3:47:00 -- Cumbersome Guys -- Mother 3
3:59:39 -- Boss Battle 2 -- Legend of Dragoon
4:08:10 -- Blight -- Warcraft III
4:13:31 -- Battle Theme -- Dragon Warrior VII
4:16:31 -- Odoro -- Breath of Fire III
4:22:24 -- Gold Slouch -- Fallout 2
4:27:45 -- March of the Marauders -- Oblivion
4:32:41 -- Troublesome Guys -- Mother 3
4:39:37 -- Lordaeron Fall -- Warcraft III
4:45:08 -- Moder Battle -- Valheim
4:48:14 -- Close the Gates -- Rimworld
4:53:28 -- Queen Fury -- Legend of Dragoon
4:59:10 -- Military Precision -- Half-Life
5:01:31 -- Khans of New California -- Fallout 1
5:06:18 -- Fighting -- Final Fantasy VII
5:10:22 -- Those Awful Ravenous Rainbows -- Slime Rancher
5:14:06 -- Piggy Guys -- Mother 3
5:22:16 -- World Map 1 -- Legend of Dragoon
5:28:03 -- Heavy Echo -- Breath of Fire III
5:44:36 -- Boss Battle 3 -- Legend of Dragoon
5:56:28 -- Battle Against a Weird Opponent -- Earthbound
6:03:22 -- Dark Cave -- Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
6:10:41 -- Dining Hall Jazz -- Void Bastards
6:12:45 -- Main Menu Theme -- 7 Days To Die
6:18:41 -- Black Mage Village -- Final Fantasy IX
**(Ran out of patience for editing the video at this point. All tracks beyond this point have been used earlier in the video, except the one used in the credits at the end.)**
6:22:45 -- Valley of Corrupted Gravity/Home of Gigantos -- Legend of Dragoon
6:25:33 -- Team Plasma Battle Theme -- Pokemon Black & White
6:29:00 -- Carrion Waves -- Warcraft III
6:36:35 -- Milkyway Battle -- FTL: Faster Than Light
6:39:36 -- Wingly Forest -- Legend of Dragoon
6:46:22 -- To A Distant Place -- Breath of Fire III
6:49:22 -- Natural Killer Cyborg -- Mother 3
6:59:04 -- Forbidden Land -- Legend of Dragoon
7:02:31 -- Fancy Meat Computer -- Hylics 2
7:09:46 -- Battle 1 -- Final Fantasy IX
7:12:27 -- World Map 2 -- Legend of Dragoon
7:18:21 -- Bothersome Guys -- Mother 3
7:26:30 -- Technology -- Breath of Fire III
7:30:21 -- Boss 1 -- Terraria
7:33:38 -- Orc 2 -- Warcraft II
7:38:21 -- World Map 1 -- Legend of Dragoon
7:43:44 -- Porky's Porkies -- Mother 3
7:54:45 -- Chaos Bringer -- Rimworld
7:59:01 -- Battle 2 (Boss) -- Final Fantasy IX
8:04:11 -- Battle in the Coming Days -- Breath of Fire III
8:12:50 -- The Road Most Travelled -- Morrowind
Dear god you really need to break this up into parts
These are some nicely label timestamps... thank you. You can literally go to whatever point you like and see if the arguments are valid.
If anyone has a problem they can quickly find where it will be. And for me, its like chapter select of a movie ive watched a few times but this is the directors cut
@@matthewlachance3362 you can more easily pause and come back to watch it in parts, can you not?
When someone asks me why I'm afraid to have an opinion on the internet I'll just show them the 8 hour fallout 3 response video
And yes I know you don't just shit on the video the whole time I'm aware, I just thought it was funny
@@guykrawinkel4500 read the second comment you Neanderthal
@@guykrawinkel4500 It's fucking 8 hours long
There's a fine line between disagreeing and "holy shit it's not that deep shut the fuck up"
True you cant like any game these days.People always have to come with 200% logic to tell you that you shouldnt like this game and you are an idiot if you like this game.Whynt use some of ur imagination.Such a pathetic video.Hope True Fallout enjoyers dislike this video.
@@ggomlet6519 it was funny lol
Pro tip- in New vegas, if you piss off enough factions, almost every building is a dungeon.
Fun times
dungeon? Fallout isn't Elder scrolls!
@@fatman1288 tell that to bugthesda.
Ah yes i remember my first time destroying the ncr embassy with OH BABY! and pushy
@@fatman1288 clearly you’ve never played fallout 4 after playing Skyrim
1:01:50
>Be Pre Megaton Citizen
>Be lucky to be near pre build town Springveil with school, houses, , and even gas station
>Refuse to rebuild town
>Instead decide to stick near a FRICKING B O M B
>WASTE your manpower on dismantling airport(which ALSO could've served as a new town) and then spending time relocating all that metal just to build a town around BOMB
>POV: You're Post Megaton citizen
I always thought Megaton was stupid for a multitude of reasons, but to see it all put into full perspective like this makes me laugh thinking about how fucking stupid the whole of Megaton is.
>refuse to elaborate further
>POV: you are one of the biggest fools on the continent
And what stopped people from rebuilding Las Vegas into something more than a tiny portion of the strip and a huge pile of ruins around the city? Let's not forget that, canonically, none of the Las Vegas area was nuked.
@sinan sakic, PS3 and Xbox 360 had games with much larger and much more detailed cities. And even with Morrowind, locations where larger and more detailed.
But, seeing as they barely could produce a functioning program in 18 months...
Consider the following: Anyone wanting to attack and take over Megaton could just chuck grenades over the walls and they would roll downwards and the guards wouldn't be able to do anything
I'm not getting close enough to throw a grenade at the nuclear warhead tho 😂
@@7thdayproductions330 That's smarter than any single NPC and faction in Fallout 4.
But no because bomb
Nukes don't work like that. There has to be a lot going wrong for the bomb to explode that way
i doubt the grenades could activate the trigger for the warhead and it would kill whoever threw the grenade if it could.
“There is no Officer Gomez in the rest of the game to end fights for you”
Can someone make that a mod?
There may not be an Officer Gomez in the rest of the game to fight for you and hold your hand, but there is Sarah Lyons, Liberty Prime, etc. who fill that same role.
@@fatherelijahcal9620 Absolutely. I just think that the idea of this old man in Vault-Tec gear telling off your enemies is comical.
I'm roughly four hours into the video, and hot damn, Jon stretches nothing (sometimes literally) into some deep, "philosophical" nonsense. I understand that Oxhorn does the exact same thing, hence why I don't bother with him.
You've most definitely been around this community longer than myself, so I'd like to ask you this:
Does this behavior that Jon and Oxhorn exhibit happen to be a trend with bigger Fallout/lore channels? Also, who would you recommend in the community?
I recommend TKS-Mantis, he's a good dude.
@@Creetosis It's been a hot second since I've checked in on him. It was back when he was in that group. The Autclave? Funnily enough, it seems like they beat Oxhorn. He has nearly three hundred times your subscriber count, yet your view count per video is closing the gap (given the type and quality of your work, it won't be long!)
I definitely do need to check him out again. While I have your audience, do you have a streaming schedule? I'm not the kind of person to watch streams, but I really enjoy what I've seen through VODs and I'd like to tune in.
No streaming schedule, my work schedule doesn't allow for it, unfortunately
Ironically, NV was meant to have a post game where you get to see the effect of your faction choice but was removed due time constraints. Difference is you don't get fucking gassed to death by lanius.
Those "time constraints" were obsidian refusing an offer to an extended contract and release date.
@@Clangokkuner they were given time extensions? This I haven't heard before.
@@anafu-sankanashi8933 recently read up on some of the stuff Josh Sawyer and Chris Avellone said.
@@Clangokkuner hmm....still feels strange. Maybe they were given time extensions. But why would they turn it down? Did they think using fallout 3s engine would mean less work?
@@anafu-sankanashi8933 their previous games prior to new Vegas also launched with similar symptoms, while I don't dislike obsidian they seem to have a tendency to expand the scope of their project way beyond capacity and then release them in an incomplete/broken state.
“You can be a pacifist by having your companions kill people” yeah like Charles Manson the famous pacifist with no blood on his hands. 😂
Or hitler the famous pacifist with absolutely no blood on his hands.
@@hideakiakio6698 Literally thought this exact thing when he said that, lol. What an actual clown.
One's companions killing for them doesn't make that person a real pacifist, as technical pacifism involves not killing even if it does mean beating your foes into submission
@@TheBreakingBenny exactly..so a pacifist run would actually require use of the weapons and ammo that deal fatigue damage, like the boxing gloves, boxing tape, and beanbag rounds for the shotgun...the latter most of which is tricky to acquire in decent quantities without using console commands
@@kazumablackwing4270 Bludgeoning weapons that wear the target out are helpful to begin with for these cases.
Also regarding the beginning of New Vegas, following the first quest line you’re given and siding with Goodsprings, which does not take long to get to, you get several options to apply stat checks to win over townsfolk’s support against the encroaching gang.
What’s more, the moment you enter the bar, which you are guided to by the game, there is immediate quest to try and fix the radio for them, requiring a stat check.
Further, on a first run and likely even on the second, you will not have the stats to succeed each check that Goodsprings can throw at you. Chet demands Barter, Judy needs Speech, Pete needs Explosives, Doc needs Medicine. And there are opportunities to lock pick and put terminal skills to use.
There’s even an option to learn the game’s crafting mechanics.
Further, you are given the first dilemma. Siding with Goodsprings is the morally right decision, but the Powder Gangers are a larger organization with more influence.
There is no ethical reason to side with the Powder Gangers, but their is self interest in doing so. They also have more to offer and more opportunities to hurt you.
No matter what you do in Goodsprings, anything they can do for or against ends in one location.
Goodsprings serves as excellent introduction to New Vegas’s mechanics: Hacking/Lockpick related mini-games, dialogue stat checks, useful interactions with parts of the world tied to stat checks, gear degradation and repair, ammo types (if you talk to Chet about them) Cooking/Crafting, and Faction Reputation.
And you don’t have to stick around for any of it. You can dart off first opportunity and never need spare Goodsprings a second thought.
This is why I'll keep saying, unless I play something better, that New Vegas' Goodsprings is the best "RPG starter town" I've experienced.
I dont understand why you ppl compare older - first true 3D of fallout to later on version, more perfected version of fallout 3.. makes litterly no sense.. thats why i cant take this video searious either.
@@artursobkow2680You should learn how to structure your thoughts into a sentence before speaking. Then you wouldn't look so moronic.
@artursobkow2680 Oh man, how disingenous.
Stop making excuses for Bethesda.
They had the experience of Morrowind and Oblivion on their belts; they were not indifferent to creating 3D worlds and GameBryo was their bread and butter, that means Fo3 would in any case see the improvement of its processes and although they had just acquired the franchise it is not as if they did not have the previous games (FO1,2, tactics, BOS, van Buren prototype) as a base.
Not to mention the most important fact: Obsidian was given an absurd deadline of 18 months for development in an engine they didnt knew and they managed to create a rich, balanced and interesting story by perfecting the half-baked mechanics of FO3 (no iron sights, skill check chance, bland unique weapons, serviceable but basic shooting). If I remember correctly, the base game was a disaster of bugs and poor optimization. And despite everything, it came forward critically for the narrative and its other virtues.
It's just a very poor argument the one you're offering, not one worth taking seriously.
@@jukkamegido6409 Who the F is unhonest here, its not like bethesda gave engine to obsidian and told them: make something out of it, they gave expierenced develepoers that worked on fallout 3 to.. ima leave at that, coz rest of the comment in same bullshit story that this argument.
Remember how you get to join Brotherhood in F1? Surviving on a suicide mission against all expectations, where an entire squad of Brotherhood's paladins perished?
Yeah, very friendly chaps, those Brotherhood boys.
How bad were you at that game that you thought that was a suicide mission? Getting TO the Glow is harder than getting THROUGH the Glow.
@@KakeiTheWoIf from the perspective of the Brotherhood's paladin - there is no chance some rando from the wasteland will succeed where a team of paladins have failed.
It's not a matter of difficulty gameplay wise. It's a matter of difficulty lore wise.
@@MrRavellon. you have a good point. I mistook your statement as a comment on gameplay difficulty.
BoS in FO3: *go go Power Brothers!*
BoS in FO4: *God bless America and the-- wait, are we still the Brotherhood?*
@@TR33ZY_CRTM, still not as bad as BoS in BoS.
You almost can't escape the main story in New Vegas, it's everywhere. Because it has an impact on everyone. Because it's the main story. That's why the goofy joke DLC for 3 is a disconnected alien romp and the goofy joke DLC for New Vegas is a plot-heavy existential look at the pre-War scientists who repeatedly ignored ethics and abandoned humanity to make things like the Y-17, the Cazador, the Robobrain, the Saturnite warhead, themselves, etc, and how they represent a little bit of all three of the major players of New Vegas in their own way, and how Elijah and Ulysses used the technology there in creative and logical ways to attempt to reforge the world in their image, just as NCR and Legion have done. You leave hyped for Dead Money and Lonesome Road and you leave with a sense of existential sadness but the best solution is maintaining the status quo which is reflected elsewhere in the game.
@@dylanhudec979 Name five quests that have nothing to do with the main story in New Vegas. I'll give you Bleed Me Dry, that's one. Name four others.
@@kingofthegrill holy shit. I never realized till now that all the quests damn near have some sort of tie to the main story.
@@GamerMarine89 It's actually insane how much effort went into making the world feel cohesive, the writing is top-notch. Even my other favorite games like Morrowind and Red Dead can't match it in terms of writing quality imo.
@King of the Grill I always enjoyed in the DLCs hearing and or seeing how they in turn effected the mojave and or fit in with the larger story
@@kingofthegrill Note: I don't actually disagree with your general point. I just wanted to see if I could come up with 5.
Whang Dang Atomic Tango, High Times, A Valuable Lesson, Suits You Sarah, and As you mentioned Bleed Me Dry are what I've got.
"Suits You Sarah" CAN interact with the main story if you decide to bring her boomer flightsuits but you don't HAVE to.
Edit: Talent Pool definitely counts. And 'Nothin But a Hound Dog has an option that's related to the main story in a really tangential way but said option is also completely missable.
Imagine Springvale being the settlement and Megaton being just an atom church. It's a big crater, so it's full of water, and people in springvale want to use it to drink and irrigate the crops offering part of the food and other goods to the church as exchange. The problem is that the bomb it's still radioactive and its contaminating the water. So Lucas want you to deactivate it, so they can drag it out safely. In the other hand, the atom followers are split, some of them (the less fanatic ones) think that it's a pretty good deal, the others think it's a blasphemy, and at the same time some people in Springvale are ready to take the water by force if necessary. There you go, some depth for a bomb in a crater. I mean, I'm not even smart and I can come with something more interesting for a conflict about Megaton. Imagine being a writer and the only thing you can come up with it's a posh rich bastard trying to blow up a town because he doesn't like the views...
Like how there's an Atom Settlement somewhere in the glowing sea in fallout 4? now that I think about it, it seems like Bethesda learned from that silliness at least.
I understand what your saying and completely agree, but ironically that's basically the plot of Tenpenny Tower's quest. The outsiders (the ghouls), want something the tower residents have (a nice place to live) and thus basically the same conflict. No hate intended, you literally said you came up with the idea without much thought, I just thought I'd point the irony out.
Emil Pagliarulo is a terrible writer and anyone who thinks otherwise probably has never read a book.
@@thewholehorse7140 ironically you don't know how to write a good story
want =/= needs
Also "goo goo gaa gaa I'm racist and bigot" is not a good story either
@@grimrapper5202 Sorry, but I don't see where I said Tennpeny Tower's Quest was my idea at all mate. I was pointing the fact the "they want what we've got" situation had already been done, even if it was a very poor execution like you said.
I just realized why they don't have rain in the game. It's because rain water is supposedly clean, fresh, and should be non-radiated after 200 years. Having a clean source of water completely removes the point of the main quest.
Rain was featured as far back as in TES III: Morrowind on Xbox, and could also be seen in the last Gamebryo Elder Scrolls game TES IV: Oblivion. There'd certainly be rain on the East Coast, much more than even California would have I think.
Holy shit lmao
Bravo!
Rain water doesn’t necessarily satisfy all the needs of people, livestock, or crops though.
@@clydemarshall8095 That is true, thank you for pointing that out to me. It's still weird it's not mentioned anywhere or by anyone that they even hope for rain
Also, wouldn't it be funny if in a future Fallout game they reference Megaton as having canonically exploded from the bomb? But not because of the Lone Wanderer, just because it finally went off? And that the Lone Wanderer "defusing" the bomb didn't actually do anything? Cause how is it that a 19 year old fresh out of the Vault with an explosives skill equivalent to the threshold by which Easy Pete trusts them with Dynamite can effectively DISARM a NUKE???
That would actually be hilarious and an interesting narrative decision. Like, something you hear in distant hearsay, "Down in D.C., they built a town around a bomb. That didn't end too well for them. They even thought they had it defused at one point, but it wasn't long after when the town was replaced with a crater..."
The very idea that there's a town built around a fucking nuke is dumb by itself.
@@hisholiness4537 it does give you access to ground water, and yeah it's irradiated. But, so it all the other water. As for why the town isn't dead yet? You can trade scrap for caps in the towns water treatment plant. I know what you're thinking, if it's water, and they have a filtration system, why not just settle by the coast, or the Potomac river? Well. There's the mirelurks.
Go off how though? Its not a stick of dynamite. Burke needs you to use the fusion pulse charge for a reason. You think Tenpenny wouldn't just hire talon company to fire a mortar (artillery is available and seen at the capital building and Takoma park) at the town if banging it up made it blow? Nukes are very delicate in that if you do not set them off just right you'll just get a fizzle out of them and break them. Having a smoothbrain moron take random bits out is actually not a horrible way to ensure the bomb will never work. Megaton is flawed for plenty of reasons but the bomb isn't as crazy as people make it out to be.
Wouldnt that mean moira would be a ghoul? What if she becomes an npc?!
Calling hin Richard Gray rather than the master is also really dumb by the way because it’s quite clear that the events that caused him to become the master also changed Richard Gray to the point that he’s not really the same person anymore.
It’s more like referring to the hulk as Bruce Banner or Mr Hyde as Dr Jekyll. That’s who they used to be.
Also there's how his voices change eratically, he has no one voice.
Is he one or is he many?
I also doubt that most that agree with matn have any idea who Richard Grey is, and only can associate him with the master due to context clues. Matn really knows his audience XD
Not even that, calling him Richard Grey instead of The Master is just plain inaccurate because the FEV assimilated him with like 2 other people and the computer systems. He is literally more than just Richard Grey at this point.
The Hulk always transforms back into Bruce Banner... same with Mr. Hyde.
Although, if you convince the master to stand down, you do get a glimpse of Richard
Where did the Tunnel Snakes get their leather jackets? 🤔
I think we need a 6 hour video essay on this subject
From their rooms
That was the deal for James to get into the vault. Three fine Brahmin Pelts.
They stole them in the vaults storage. Pretty sure they mentioned it.
Knowing bathesda fallout lore.
They probably got it from the enclave while impersonating Dr. Brown.
(This is a reference to the badly written lore of vault 51 in fallout 76, where an AI gets some hellfire armor from the enclave, after impersonating Dr. Brown.)
Ironically, water scarcity is more of an issue in New Vegas than in Fallout 3.
Especially on hardcore mode lol
not really. there's clean water in goodsprings, clean water in the colorado, clean water in lake mead and lake las vegas. that game is more about the scarcity of electricity and power, literal and metaphorical power.
"you take a sip from your trusty vault 13 canteen"
Not really? I was actually really surprised by how much clean, clear, non-radiating water there is in NV when I first played it.
The downside is, radiated water heals more than clean water.
It's already been mentioned, but yeah you can find clean water in large bodies, some towns, and you can purchase it just fine.
@@jacksonelh @BigVorst I mean I think it's pretty obvious that he is referring to the narrative.
He means that in FO3 it's never or very rarely mentioned, and in NV although there's much more water in the game there are a lot of quests and places that have water problems
“Double crossing a side is often an option “
Yeah remember when we could chose anything but the brotherhood
technically you can double cross the brotherhood in broken steel
its completely pointless, granted, but somehow it's still the most satisfying option
@@katatonikbliss you can double cross them in the end of the base game too, adding the virus to the water.
@@katatonikbliss it would also explain why paladin Danse is screaming "remember the citadel" when charging into combat in fallout 4.
Long story short: the LW got project purity running and then blew up the brotherhood, because he got bored or something.
@@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290 what an absolute chad
You *can* actually backstab the crap Lyons turned his BOS into. You know, after the Enclave is in shambles, and the whole story is said and done. Because at that point, I guess Bethesda gave up and let you turn on them, because why not?
Give Fallout 4 credit: You can go after the BOS instantly, or mostly ignore them. Lot like Vegas, funnily enough.
I sure love these short and quick video responses, great work.
Same, this was as fast as a tic tok
8 hours, why
@@spartanshadow90oficial that's the joke
@@spartanshadow90oficial to elaborate in a thorough thought out way rather than addressing everything with "ur wrong me right"
would have love a 36 hour video tho
In response to the one guy who talked about the three flowers in the cemetery, they are probably fake plastic flowers. Placing fake flowers at a grave is commonplace, since they require little to no maintenance, unlike real flowers.
😳 In Germany that’s not commonplace. I NEVER saw this or heard about it. Where are you from, if I may ask?
@@Kackspack0815 America.
@@daedriccheddar
Man, people are different. ☺️
It is logical, considering that the flowers should be pollinated, so it's not like such a small population may survive long-term. I think I'm overanalyzing that piece of shit of a game
@@Kackspack0815 its not as common as you would think, a lot of people believe its better to place real flowers. But since the plastic flowers last longer, and, sure, admittedly would be cheaper, some people here in America opt to place those plastic flowers instead.
I wish Autumn and the Enclave could have been a nuanced faction in 3. Autumn leading a new Enclave who actually want to help people while Eden uses his "presidential" sway to gather Enclave members to help him. Make the game a choice between a new Enclave or the old. Autumn or Eden. Genocide or New beginnings.
If they'd done the same thing with the BoS, leadership crisis and conflicts over where to take the faction, you'd essentially have four factions in the game too.
This would be really sweet.
I feel like the frontier tried this with the “liberal” legion and it just fails because its the antithesis of the faction. The enclave arent interested in winning the hearts and minds of the people, theyre interested in ruling over them as menial subjects. They inherently view themselves as the superior un mutated people vs the mutants of the wasteland
Plus the names could be exceptionally symbolic and heavy-handed.
They missed a lot of great opportunities for great storytelling.
Tbh robots shouldn't be immune to radiation. Radiation in high concentration completely fucks electronics
so robco has damn good plating, codsworth survived basically being nuked and he is stlll working
@@terrariangolden6985 That, or Bethesda is just bad at writing and don't understand radiation at all.
@@Stormeris considering that mr homes literally predicted the war, i see that the robots being fine would make sense
@@Stormeris Bethesda has bad writing? What about Ghouls in Fallout 1/2? Your telling me that's realistic to radiation as well? Sorry I gotta go, I just found out from a UA-cam comment that radiation can make me immortal and glow like a lightbulb.
“Surely you don’t think a little radiation can deter the pride of General Atomics International?”
Don’t forget about The Talon Company. There is practically not a single entity in the entire wasteland they could be possibly working for. It’s a very large organization with bases and outposts and patrols all over the wasteland that are described in the game as mercenaries. They have more territory, more soldiers and hold more strategic points than almost any faction in the game. Other factions should offer their services to THEM, not the other way around.
Not just that but they also have some serious firepower, they have a motar set up in the DC ruins, they've taken over numerous points that if they can utilize they have more power than any group including the BoS and the outcasts.
talon company was essentially just a way to punish players with good karma. i spent so much time trying to find the Talon Company HQ or whatever so that i could just kill em off and be done with them. but nope.
@@boarfaceswinejaw4516 even if they did have an HQ and you wiped it off the map, they'll probably keep respawning and go after you. Since their appearance is tied to RNG.
Maybe the Enclave paid them??
Oh, but they are! They are working for an unnamed person in the shadows who we never get to learn about or interact with at all because fuck you and your world building.
There's one thing that always bothered me with his vid. Lanius required many speech checks, each increasing with skill, to convince him to leave. It felt like you were talking him down by "increasing your argument".
Autumn at most requires 2. If Raven Rock is destroyed (which is the scenario MATN is presenting), it can be done in 1. Although him leaving makes sense, it makes him come off weak as if with one sentence I convinced him to leave.
New Vegas did it better with Oliver. 2 speech checks, one confirming there's a way to escape, and one saying he has a duty to his men. Oliver doesn't leave because you said to, he sees it's lost and realizes he has a duty to his men; he won't fight a losing battle for them go die. And he says point blank that they will return. Like Lanius, he's not surrendering forever.
Nice vid btw
The thing I always liked about Lanius is the Speech check is an absolute bad ending.
Lanius straight up says he's coming back with dramatically more troops, meaning speech checking your way through him is signing Vegas up for an even worse round 2.
More games need to narratively punish speech checking your way out of actually having to do anything.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 the only other example I know of where a game "punishes" the player for taking the shortcut (Skill check in this case) is FNV Dead Money. Using Skill checks on Dean Domino ticks him off as you're manipulating him, causing him to betray you at the end.
@@DJWeapon8 Vanilla NV has a speech check that does nothing and Motor Runner laughs at you, it's not punishment per say, but still funny 😂
@@DJWeapon8 I recall the the lonesome road expansion, when talking to Ulysses at the end, you have to actually pay attention to what you say to him and remember what it is that motivates him. There was one high level speech skill option that I met the requirements for and then when I chose it, he basically went "Wait a second, you're trying to trick me, aren't you? This conversation is over." Begin boss fight.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 I think you're making a lot of assumptions there to make it a "bad ending." It would be neat if there was such a punishment, but if that was the intent, frankly it would have been in the ending slide. Because New Vegas and the Mojave is not in a great state when the Legion invade, the Legion actually has a chance even with their extremely bad equipment by comparison. Any other ending leaves the Mojave in a position to prepare very quickly, with perhaps only the NCR ending being ambiguous, because they suck at defending their fringe territory lol But I really don't think it's as cut-and-dry as you present; I think you fell for some of Lanius' mythology.
Legate Lanius never doing anything to the player directly argument made me chuckle.
Travelling Mojave and seeing all horrors Legion does to people of the land and especially if you're playing a female courier, you have big enough picture to realize what kind of person Lanius is and what will happen if you fail. One of the moments where death would be a preferable outcome.
I agree, but it's what you imagine what he could do. Lanius still does nothing to you directly if we're getting into semantics.
Because Courier 6 isn't the chosen one, it isn't a story of good or evil. Courier 6 is just a wildcard that stacks the deck, a jinx in all the plans of all of the major players.
New Vegas is about the NCR, Mr House and the Legion. Listen to the radio sometime.
@spaceboy.digital I’m not arguing anything. I’m making a factual observation.
"seeing all horrors Legion does to people of the land"
Ok, but in-lore their lands are more peaceful and people aren't beset by raiders all the time
Maybe sometimes a bit of violent authoritarianism is required- a firm hand to tame the savage land.
Plus, do you know how to end primitive wars quickly with the least amount of bloodshed? Be terrifying and brutal to those who oppose you. Provided you can actually win the wars, other tribes will think "yeah, it's better to submit" and thus not fight.
That's how countries are formed. We're tribal by nature, and only by instilling in us the fear that resistance is very, very, very much not worth it can we have a society better than petty tribes and squabbling families.
@@UnsoberIdiot You don't need to have raiders when you are ruled by ones. There are places in the world of Fallout that offer protection and order without enslaving and torturing you for slight disagreement with their childish beliefs or being born as a woman. The Legion is a colossus on clay feet, as soon as Ceaser dies civil war between it's ranks going to tear the entire structure apart.
It's probably been mentioned before but I got pretty annoyed when John complained that there is little radiation in New Vegas. Is he forgetting that in the lore Mr House stopped most of the nukes from hitting the Mojave? So obviously there wouldn't be as much radiation in most areas. Every area that has radiation has a reason for it. Vault 34 has it because the reactor is leaking, The Nuclear Test Site has it for obvious reasons and Searchlight has it because of the Legions attack.
Not to mention after two hundred year there would be very little residual radiation.
@@ArcAngle1117 while this is mostly correct, it's also not... and the issue is way worse than that.
You're not just dealing with the bombs here, literally everything ran on nuclear power. It got so bad, for example, that they were just dumping barrels of waste willy nilly because the storage facilities were (presumed) full.
They had fusion batteries powering pretty much anything that was too small for a reactor. ALL of them exploded (except the ones that didn't).
The real issue is that after only 200 years, the countryside would be _TOO_ irradiated for anyone to live for more than a few hours.
So you're right, the fallout wouldn't be an issue, but you're wrong in that the environment would be crazy deadly still.
@@iami3rian394 if it’s radioactive and explodes then it’s likely discharged it’s stored energy and it’s radiation should dissipates if a few weeks or months to a safe level. The nuclear waste barrels will be deadly for centuries but the smaller radioactive appliances should be rendered non dangerous within a couple of decades. Realistically speaking such low yield miniature reactors shouldn’t be that dangerous if your not wearing them as a necklace for months.
@@scorchercast8366 that's just it, though. Radaway is a thing, and it's STILL everywhere 200 years AFTER the great war irradiated everything. I don't think they used shielding AT ALL on anything. I feel like it would be like a flu shot. Once a year, pop over to the doc and get injected, as compared to shielding everything (like... literally everything) that runs on power. I mean, like I said they had irradiated children's toys.
Not much besides lights actually plug into the power grid, and they've got robots trapsing around living in people's houses.
On top of that, the food and water thing kinda destroys any way to gauge just what "1 rad" of radiation even is in Fallout. 200 can kill you, and 1,000 WILL kill you in hours IRL.
There's also the rather strong possibility that they're using something entirely different than uranium and plutonium for warheads... and fuel in general. I mean, they've got fat boys, for example. We've had nuclear artillery weapons (and still do as far as I'm aware), but they're nowhere NEAR that small, and necessarily cannot be. No matter what, you MUST hit critical mass, or nothing happens. That's just the nature of nuclear physics. To do that with less mass, you need more force, and thus more conventional explosives as a trigger (and a larger though lighter warhead).
Meaning, who knows WHAT isotopes are leftover after a nuke goes off... which means it could be dangerous for MUCH longer than the weapons we use, which are mostly harmless after 200 years. They could be using stuff that leaves isotopes with a half life into the millions of years, that's ALSO releasing high levels of radiation.
But yeah, I think that's the idea... Like even watches ran on RTGs. You don't think that pipboy is safe to wear, do ya. = )
They essentially do walk around with reactors on their necks.
You are arguing realism in a game where a faction of psychopaths wearing football pads is the biggest threat to the surviving world and their second in command fights people with an oversized sword. Nobody is playing these games for realism.
3:46:00 Yup. I was going to say that the truce between the NCR and The Brotherhood was not because The Brotherhood suddenly learned that "isolationism is bad", but a step they saw as necessary to their own survival, since their numbers were dwindling. They realized that NCR control of Hoover Dam/New Vegas would mean the NCR becoming even more powerful as a faction, and the Brotherhood already lost their battle at Helios One due to being laughably outnumbered, despite having superior firepower. They're literally just trying to get on the NCR's good side so they don't become a target.
It's also worth pointing out that Veronica's quest involves Brotherhood members slaying a few Followers of the Apocalypse just out of the fear that Brotherhood secrets "might" have been leaked (which they weren't), strictly because of Veronica's continued interaction with them. They're just as paranoid towards outsiders as before.
most definitely, I did enjoy the feel of the Mojave chapter of the BoS, though with the route they're taking, their survival just wouldn't happen, they made too many enemies
Hell there's even the dangers of 'being a good person' in Fallout New Vegas. If you use the favor from The King to have The Kings make peace with the NCR:.. and you pick Mister House or Caesar for the faction to support... The Kings get utterly exterminated for their 'positive relation with the NCR'... which YOU had them do because 'cooperation is good'.
Asking Arcade to help at Hoover Dam for the final mission when supporting the NCR Ending, he ends up recognized by the armor as an Enclave Remnant afterwards and he gets booted from the Followers, he gets hunted by bounty hunters and eventually flees from known areas and is never heard from again.
Fallout New Vegas tells you there's consequences for your choices. And dun sugar coat it. Like if you tell Lilly to stop taking her medicine... she ends up going insane and rage-filled... the sweet granny drowned beneath the insanities of being a super mutant nightkin.
Fallout 3 just gives me that.... Mass Effect 3 ending feel of rainbow colored 'samey ending'. about every single quest in New Vegas gives you a choice of two or more results... some has skill checks as well for a whole extra choice to do, perhaps giving you a chance for a GOOD choice rather than picking between the rock and the hard place.
@@supergenius6256 that's why elijah went to the madre, he could see there was no chance of survival for the mojave chapter as they were.
@@bryane727 Should have went to the Midwest then lol
@@kinagrill house ending also makes gannon be banned from the followers of the apocalypse?
I always thought Beagle's journal was a sort of a fail safe and a detail or his character. My friend went in to save Beagle and an idiot of an AI got stuck, threw a dynamite and killed Beagle. This can happen even if the player doesn't kill Beagle. I also used him as a temp companion for clearing out the Bison hotel and had more than one 'near-death' encounters. The journal is there to enhance Beagle's character as a somewhat incompetent deputy and as a fail safe in case he dies, thus possibly soft locking the whole game. So I would argue FNV is way more planned and thought out for it's narrative and main quest.
I mean, he is a fucking idiot to the point he lets a robot boss him around
@@AgentDanielCross I mean i would let Primm Slimm boss me around too.
He’s precious.
@@kajetanzajac9940 I... can't argue that.
@@AgentDanielCross I mean Primm Slim makes a awesome sheriff with that hat, the finest officer in the desert
@@victorhugofranciscon7899 Sure, but can he guarentee you discounts at the Mojave Express?
"The skill checks don't come in until quiet a bit down the line"
Unless you walk back into the saloon after shooting some bottles and are immediately placed into a multi-sided situation which gives you several chances for skill checks. But yeah I guess 8 seconds is quiet a bit down the line.
The tutorial has an optional section about crafting which uses the survival skill. Technically you are using a skill there and it’s the game informing you about the skill and how it works
A lot of the f3 fans have child like patience to play a real RPG
@@CrackanutBar It also sends you to the school which will have you using either science or lockpick to open a safe.
@@jackross8075 And also shows you skill boosting magazines
The whole "There's no other instance of you persuading an NPC to go take care of their mess in the Fallout series" is just plain wrong, you can persuade the NCR Ranger inside Vault 3 to go fight Motor-Runner and get killed
Even within FO3, I was exploring around the Ranger Base in the DC ruins and found a man being held captive by a crazy preacher. One of the options to resolve the situation is to use charisma to convince him to talk things out with the preacher. The preacher is beyond the point of reason and kills him and himself with explosives. You can alternatively snipe the man or sneak in and pocket all the explosives you can see and leave him to his fate. In FNV you can push Deputy Beagle to grow a pair and fight or just have him flee while you do all the work.
You can also do a similar thing with one of the male civillians inside the Omertas' casino in NV: he's largely incompetent, and very likely to die in an unsuccessful attempt to destroy the Omertas' gun stash, but it's an option.
Man I'm just gonna say if you put it in quotation marks it should probably be what the man actually said.
He doesn't take care of shit on his own then, now does he?
Statement is valid
Also it's hilarious how it's argued that you cannot convince slavers to hand over a slave for free, but you can apparently convince an enclave AI supercomputer to destroy itself cuz 'reasons'. Imagine if you could use your barter skill as a dialogue option here a la Fallout New Vegas style that allows you to point out the troubles of dealing with child slaves, how they are weaker than the average adult slave, they are more whiney, they have an overall higher maintenance due to being at the growing age, etc.... and maybe you can convince if not getting the slave for free, at least at a discount.
But no that's way unrealistic that you can BARTER with a business man (slaver or not, still a business man in the end, yes?), yet can convince an AI-President to blow itself and the whole base it's at into pieces just cuz you told it to do so cuz 'enclave bad'.
I find it funny he mentions murdering slavers as a morally grey choice. They are all one dimensional villains. In FNV when I made the choice to destroy the brotherhood of steel I feel slightly bad because there is multiple characters in that faction that are likable, unlikable or somewhere in between. I still stand by the decision to kill them but I'm never convinced I'm fully making the right choice. Same with the boomers or heck even the legion. Fallout 3's factions have no understandable motivations or interesting personalities. Like the enclave has 2 dumb leaders and and army of faceless stormtroopers. The super mutants in fallout 1 are interesting, intimidating and also kind of tragic and in Fallout 3 their just there. They could have been cut and not much would have changed. I've played fallout 3 for ages and I still know nothing about the Talon company. The Brotherhood of steel and the outcasts both exist. (also quick side note since the Outcast are following the BOS's original mission shouldn't they not be called the outcasts?) Anyway I think I've rambled enough. I do still enjoy fallout 3 though.
This mfer just said heck lmao grow up cry baby
Bad people don't exist of course. Very unrealistic fallout 3. Oh hey there's Cesar's Legion.
Three Dog even *calls* them "Stormtroopers" in one of his broadcasts. The one that happens after you finish Broken Steel by blowing up the Base Crawler at Adams AFB.
The Legion? The murdering, raping slavers? You felt bad about killing them?
@@RankaZer0You actively ignored the point of the comment. It is about depth and nuance in the writing, not "bad people don't exist".
29:56 A great example of declining a reward with future consequences is in Fallout 2, my favorite Fallout game to date. In The Den, you are tasked with taking some coins from someone who is in debt. When confronting this debtor, he will ask if you can cover half of his debt. You can still take all of the money you were tasked to, but you have the choice of covering half the debt out of pure kindness. If you do. he will ask again for you to cut his debt in half, meaning he only pays 25% of what he needs to, with you covering the rest.
Keep in mind, money is very hard to come across in bulk early-game, and the Den is one of the first locations you will stumble across.
If you choose to cover 75% of his debt, you can return to the Den far later in the game to find a surprising result. The man used the money you let him keep to get rich, heavily implied to be via gambling. As a reward for your previous unsanctioned kindness, he will reward you with a variety of valuable equipment, such as late-game ammo.
Fallout 3 is not the only game to experiment with this sort of delayed-reward or butterfly-effect-style consequences. And I'd say Fallout 2 was far, far better at rewarding the player for their deeds than any other Fallout game.
I was just reading about a similar quest in Morrowind involving a wood elf named Gaenor. Only in that scenario, the result is funding the rise to power of a powerful foe alongside the loss of the money. A double gut punch for kindness (Very Bethesda vibe lol). Interesting the only way to avoid a foul outcome is to avoid the dude entirely.
@@GreyOatmeal reward is luch amulet tho, no? if you actually manage to beat the lucky bastard =____= damn the luck stat in morrowind is insane
A super nintendo gambling game did the exact same thing
"I remember the tutorial town that you never need to revisit less than the most central hub that contains one of two player houses in the entire game" is a hell of an argument.
I freaking love my trailer. It’s got multiple containers a bed and a self a door opening and windows
Sending other people to do your killing for you, definitely doesn't make you pacifist, and definitely shows a misunderstanding of the philosophy of pacifism.
Attempting to apply pacifism to a video game that isn't explicitly built with it in mind is a failure of understanding. You can technically beat Bloodbourne without attacking any enemies, but it's not pacifism. The technique requires you to use rolling to poison enemies, which is still you killing them.
YMFAH disagrees.
i think someone else has already commented on this, but that's literally the legal defense that charles manson tried to give at his murder trial
@@nottherealpaulsmith his defense was mainly that he didn't send anyone to be killed, not that his followers did it for him and he should be excluded. Additionally Bugliosi made this stuff up about a race war around Helter Skelter Manson never actually talked about to sensationalize the trial which succeeded
@@Xahnel you can pacifist elden ring every enemy either kills themselves or just despawns and you get a success
Knocking Fallout New Vegas for having the cazadore brick wall is...so silly? Like, it's genuinely fantastic game design because NV is basically saying "you shouldn't go this way" without ever actually putting up an invisible barrier. You are STILL open to walking that way, and it never takes away that freedom of choice, it's just that the developers are nudging you along a certain path *if you want* because they believe you'll have a narratively satisfying path by going around the way you do. It's providing an example of how to pace your own story while *still* allowing the player to ignore that and forge their own (very difficult!) path. Like, that's a brilliant way of handling the open-world story pacing problem. What a silly thing to knock against NV!
Nothing like the first time you play a linear open world game. am I right?
@@iancoots4394 except you can literally find a way past them? You can make it to New Vegas within an hour of gameplay. They nudge you in a specific way so you can find key locations and learn about the world, which is good for, I dunno, new players? Wouldn't you want to learn about the factions and different locations the first time around? No? Good, because if you know how to evade Cazador attacks and can play to your characters skills, you can make your past the Cazadors, by killing them or making your way past. Don't wanna go that way? Cool, take a alternate path and go around some deathclaws. Don't want to go that way? Cool, take a slightly different path and go around/through some supermutants, find the body of a dead soldier of a faction you haven't met before, evade a falling rock trap and make your way past all those other obstacles. Don't want to go that way? Cool, you can follow the recommended path for new players and simply follow the main route to learn about a bunch of different locations and their predicaments, save a town by finding them a sheriff, find a town burned to the ground with dozens of people being crucified, talk to a patrol of soldiers who caused this, and literally spread the word of what happened to a nearby outpost, which also leads to finding a new companion, new quests, new characters and helping you along the exact same path you were going to go along anyways. You can complain that a game is linear, but it isn't if you know what to do or simply put your mind to it, whilst the main path is meant to intertwine and teach the player to all the factions and people that could be useful down the road.
When the wall can be climbed with a stealth boy fairly easily, I completely agree it makes an excellent illusory barrier in the earliest part of the game. Think I found my first one in Primm or Mojave Outpost.
@@blackhat4206 You can actually find a Stealth Boy in the Goodsprings school building, so with like, five minutes of exploration once you've left Doc Mitchell's, you can get into New Vegas within half an hour of starting the game.
@@SaulGoodman3D2049 hell. I just ran.
Cazadores can be tricky to get past since the road north of Goodsprings is narrow, so you gotta time it so the death bugs are as far away from you as possible before booking it.
Its even easier if you take the road to Sloan. Hug the rightmost rocks, or even better try to jump and climb on them, to avoid the deathclaws.
Why do people always bring up "oh they just hunt for animals" when the food question is brought up? Yes, you can live off the land by hunting and gathering, but you will not be able to establish any permanent settlements because you will constantly be traveling to get food, nor could you ever support the large populations of the town. You can't just live off of the same couple of square miles, you'll run out of food by overhunting. Civilizations farm for a reason, because animals don't respawn in real life. If everyone in Fallout 3 supplies themselves by hunting, then the Capital Wasteland should be nothing but small nomadic tribes chasing brahmin herds, giant ants, and molerats.
Exactly. In only very rare cases in history did hunter/gatherer societies not have to move, because food was so abundant where they were. With how sparsely the Capital Wasteland is populated, permanent settlements wouldn't be able to be established and that's before we even consider the entire "all plant life is dead" issue.
Megaton as a whole disproves the whole "hunting for food" headcanon.
IIRC molerat meat isn't even offered in the diner in Megaton. Nor does anyone explicitly mention hunting for food, let alone hunting the molerats outside. Then there's Moira's quest where she wants to make a weapon that *repels* molerats. You don't want to *repel* your main food source. Even more is at the end of that quest is how she mentions a desire for domesticating them, further confirming that mole rats aren't even considered as a source of food.
i wouldn't eat any of these animals
cosidering that there aren't that many anyway i'd say they are living on the code of the game because there's no way they get enough food from hunting
@@Creetosis Is till think the grass is alive but ugly, there's no way it would hold to the soil if it were truly dead.
@@DIEGhostfish You could say Pre-War weapons either accidentally or intentionally altered weather patterns so the area has a harsh, prolonged dry season where the green dies out. It is summer canonically in game. But with fall/winter rains it greens up until the dry season the next year.
But that requires more effort than Bethesda wanted to put in.
Addressing True Nerd's contention with "too many" outcomes, I once did a playthrough of New Vegas where I was roleplaying as Mike Tyson, and I ONLY fought using unarmed damage, and being single mindedly focused on beating up people who were against me.
When Mike got to Boulder City, he immediately recognized one of the Khans with Benny, punched him and all his friends to death, and proceeded to side with the NCR because they didn't like who he didn't like. Some of my most fun roleplay, but I guess I shouldn't have had that choice, since clearly only the peaceful option that satisfies both sides is worthwhile.
MATN is a 40 some year old with the mind of a child. Do the exact opposite of what he would if you want to be a normal person
Imagine having "too many outcomes" as a complaint lmao. Why the f people take anything that guy says seriously
"Big Iron" Mike biting off legionnaire ears while yelling "fuck Theethar" has me dying
Big Iron Mike, beating the thit out of every thon of a bitsh he could find
Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.
It's pronounced "noo-clear"
@@kylehyde215CA depends on which voice actor you get
@@garretteckhardt8036 I've heard both pronunciations are correct, it's just how you use them.
Nuclear places or things are "nuke-yoo-ler"
Nuclear actions like nuclear attacks, bombings, blasts, etc are "noo-clear"
I don't know. This stems from Homer Simpson correcting someone the pronunciation of a nuclear submarine.
Ncr trooper strikes again
@@kylehyde215CA As far as I can tell, this is not the case, not that it's important but I did look it up just cz I was interested. New-klee-ar is the correct way to say the word full stop. However, New-kyu-lar is now seen as an acceptable alternative pronunciation in most american dictionaries and has been used by prominent figures such as presidents in the past.
So at the end of the day, they are technically both correct but one (new-klee-ar) is the original correct pronunciation. I couldn't find anything that suggests that this the pronunciation is different based on how the word is used.
This is only meant as a fun fact cz I find things like this to be neat. I actually was kind of hoping that your explanation was correct though as I have never heard this explanation before and it's always fun to learn little tidbits like such.
Lanius isn't just "some guy"
he is "that guy"
So he's Elijah Wood from Spy Kids 3?
He is literally just some random slave as told by Ulysses and Antony.
He is "that guy who died in 6 seconds after talking like he wasn't a jabroni, then in fact was a jabroni"
Praise Dr. Mobius' Giant Robo-Scorpion for being an adequate boss.
Praise the random deathclaws infesting the quarry for being cathartic bliss to beat up.
Courier: [Shittalk 100] Trust me pal, you aren't that guy
He’s him
Scientifically speaking, 200 years after a nuclear apocalypse, most radiation would've likely largely faded by the time Fallout 3 takes place, even in a heavily-bombed location like the Capitol Wasteland. The climate also wouldn't have changed much either, yeah a lot of the plants would've died initially, but it would've still rained, maybe a bit less than before, but it wouldn't be as desert-like in Fallout 3. A lot of the plants would've also likely come back due to either some seeds surviving, or through humans planting saved seeds.
Fallout has never been completely scientifically-accurate, but it acknowledged that without rain NOTHING CAN LIVE, and that a nuclear war wouldn't turn the world into a giant desert.
yeah places like bostons nuclear desert dont make sense as the radiation wouldve dispursed from the entire world decades ago.
most of the short lived and the most radioactive isotopes would be largely decayed after 200 years, that's true.
@@tastethecock5203 what ever the chinese used in there bombs in the fallout univerese must have been super fuck radioactive
@@pennydime4562 Oh yeah, The Glowing Sea. It's weird it's still like that from ONE bomb detonating in the area, yet the rest of Boston is still somehow fine, in spite of there being MULTIPLE having supposedly struck the area. That's not even getting into every other part of the Wasteland not being NEARLY as bad, even during periods closer to the Great War. There's also the complete insanity of Radstorms, if those were a regular thing even in the modern day NOTHING should be alive. We also weirdly don't see any other bomb craters like the one at the edge of it, in spite of there definite being more than one that struck the area.
@@pennydime4562 Well, the fallout universe nuclear weapons might be dirtier than real life one (less efficient), but still the most radioactive isotopes got the shortest half life period and lose their potency quickly.
It's writing for the writers, but it would have been interesting to have Col. Autumn injecting himself with a strain of F.E.V. (Which he intended to put into the purifier like Eden wants the player to do) to survive the immense radiation. But, later it's revealed that the reason he survived was that the FEV turned him into a radiation-immune sapient Super Mutant (First Gen), and the Enclave has him held captive with all rights and rank removed too. Then the both of you can either work together to escape or you can take your revenge on him for essentially killing your father. It'd show the Enclave has no loyalty past nepotism, and will even betray their own high-ranking officials for really any reason. Even have Autumn make reference to Frank Horrigan for those early FO fans, but also show that even Horrigan was only tolerated because he was big and terrifying. Show that even the Enclave knows their mission is completely based on ultranationalism and greed, essentially feel-good patriotic bullshit, and their only real goal is to dominate others and take/do whatever they want. They're no better than the conniving, scheming pre-war Gov't that they spawned from.
Just a thought.
This mad man actually remade the whole thing and ADDED like 2 hours. You "F"ing go Creetosis, already love the new directors cut.
7:13:15 I love how MATN tries to say that Nelson doesn't have a moral question or scenario, but Ranger Milo literally orders you to put down the trooper that are crucified, and its up to you to follow his orders or not.
I killed them my first playthrough. Boone told me it's standard practice I didn't learn till much later you can actually save them. I was just a soilder following orders. Now, screw your orders I'm doing what's right! We got a dead Ranger surrounded by snipers hope they enjoy my .308 rounds to the face because he's coming back with me, what's that? A bomb revenge can wait I gotta save the monorail, share cropper still screws me I cant decide what's better, on one hand I have several lives in my hand, on the other I have an entire farm that feeds tons of refugees. I tend to save the farm since saving the people just makes more mouths to feed anyway, it makes the problem significantly worse.
and nothing happens if you dont follow his orders. saving them is one of the easiest things in the game, and there are no negative consequences to it whatsoever. there’s no reason *not* to save them unless you just wanna be a dick or you didn’t know it was an option. that’s not a moral question because there is an objectively correct answer.
What do you think is more humane? Mercy kill 3 dying soldiers who have been tortured, so they are able to get into the camp, OR save them, amd force them to live out their painful mentally and physically scarring PTSD filled lives.
@@Lance-The-BoS-Lancer You do realize you're advocating for involuntary euthanasia, right? Even if what you're saying is true, that's a decision they can make on their own after they got rescued. I hate to prove godwin's law right, but i just can't help myself.
After watching all 8 hours I see now that the real point was to prove that it IS possible to have a 0 Charisma score while maxing out the Speech stat.
Do you talk about nerd or cretosis
Autism build
I thought the same thing.
Personally I don’t see an issue with low Charisma high speech
Knowing how to talk to someone rationally and convince them to do things is an absolute skill so much so that there are courses you can take to learn to do these things better
Where as being charismatic doesn’t even require you to be verbal as is easily proven by the mass absorption of silent movies despite no words being uttered there are hugely famous characters and actors created thru the medium
Characters like forest Gump also prove to me that good speech ability is not required to be a likable charismatic person
Conversely you can e very good at speaking and have the personality of a doorknob
A good example is Neil degrasse Tyson who is extremely eloquent but I would rather rip my hair out than be in his company
@@balmorrablue3130 lol, no. If some paralized dude rolled up to a chick in a club he ain’t going to rationalize his way into sleeping with her. If some scrawny ugly nerd stutters *intimidation* at you you won’t really buy it, would you?
2:17:34
"Comparing the choice and consequence in Fallout 3 to Fallout 2 is like comparing the amount of water in a small pond to a large lake. Yeah, it's there, but one is clearly Superior."
I choose to interpret that as a pun.
Ha.
Another way I feel like you can tell the differences between FO3 and NV is imagine hypothetically how both would approach the Old World Blues DLC.
In NV it seems like a whacky and zany romp through sci-fi land with the funny brain-scientists and the stereotypically-evil genius trying to zap your intelligence to nothing with robo-scorpions, but at the end you realize the evil-genius guy is actually the most sane one there and it's all an act to keep his actively insane former colleagues from leaving Big Mountain and ushering in another dark age upon the Wasteland through things even worse than nightstalkers and cazadores, which are both things they made and blighted upon the land, and in the end before you leave you have to deal with them, either by talking them down or killing them all.
If this DLC was done for Fallout 3 there wouldn't have been any deeper idea behind it like in New Vegas, it literally would've just been you help the whacky brains-in-jars kill the evil brain-in-a-jar and afterwards you would've just walked out without further explanation.
I feel like Fallout 3 comes up with a lot of weird and whacky ideas but never really explores them in-depth or gives them any real meaning behind them, which is how you end up with stuff like a town just built around an active nuclear warhead or the exact same super-mutants from 1 and 2 just somehow showing up from across the damn continent.
Honestly i think you have it exactly backwards. Fallout 3 explores the many of the same themes that New Vegas and it's dlc's did. Only fallout 3 didn't tell the player about it straight up. It excepted and allowed the player to notice and understand it on their own.
Its my one gripe with fallout new vegas. It breaks the number one cardinal rule of visual media so many times. Far too often It doesn't show. It tells. Through dialogues terminal entries and narration information dumps it tells the player what is happening, and what important characters are thinking. Instead of letting the player work things out through studying the scenery or subtleties in dialogue. All to often robbing you of the joy of discovery and analyzing. Most information that you will ever need will be told to you with no ambiguity or subtlety if you just find the right terminal or npc. Dead money and its narrative that it crams down your throat is the most horrible example of this. If only I could let go of the memory of that monstrosity.
mobious history is sad, the guy couldn't kill his friends so he brainwashed them and locked them up, but he couldn't handle the pressure, so he used drugs until he was an junkie that's only an shadow of his past self
@@generictotheextreme2566 do you know who is festus?
@@terrariangolden6985 The animatronic sasparilla dude? what relevance does he have in this discussion?
@@generictotheextreme2566 the fucking hidden lore about star caps
7:21:00 Jon attempting to present tranquility lane as a "moral dillema" is trumped by the fact the karma system straight up tells you you're being evil for helping braun and being good for trapping him in the simulation forever. Ignoring how the game is actually written and presented in an attempt to pretend like it's somehow actually smart. There is literally 0 consequence to the world around you for your choice in the quest outside of "Dad isn't happy I tortured innocent people for fun"
I'm actually wrong. Dad doesn't even react to the Evil route of Tranquility Lane. I was getting mixed up with the single quest in the game that opens any kind of unique dialogue with him - Power Of The Atom. He goes "I'm disappointed but we'll talk about it later" or you can just lie about it. Then the Big Bad shows up and kills him. Good writing!
@@dadiscoverychannel I hate that shit, if you are a new player who doesn't immediately turn east and run to Smith Casey's garage you will spend more than half the game looking for your dad, only for him to just fucking die after 20 minutes.
You get passive negative karma by helping the Legion, amd positive from helping NCR in NV.
@@dadiscoverychannel Liam Neeson actually kills him self by making the water purifier flood the room with radiation. How and why a water purifier would be able to do something like that is never explained.
Same with blowing up Megaton. Your dad just goes "Wow, that was really messed up, son/daughter. Anyway, take these fuses and take care of the mutants in the basement."
8 hours? Well, I'm stuck at home with a hurt back today, might as well get comfy and watch this all the way through.
Don't forget to eat and drink! Thanks for watching!
holy dude, i'm literally in the exact same scenario currently
I hope you and Fernando got better, I had similar problems when I worked in construction, back pain is a b*tch.
@@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290 Yeah, I recovered just fine, thank you.
@@Creetosis instructions unclear, ended up forgetting to sleep the whole night.
I love how he compares entering Project Purity which is either occupied by orcs or by your allies with entering El Dorado Substation which is occupied by NCR and might be the action that causes you to break favor with them and wipe their whole faction out. It's literally the point in the game where you have to pick your line in the sand regarding NCR if you haven't done so already. The point of no return.
They're not orcs they're super mutants
@@spookydonutghosthouseYeah, orcs. New Vegas has super mutants, Fallout 3 has orcs
@@spookydonutghosthouseNo. Fallout 1, Fallout 2, and Fallput New Vegas has supermutants.
Bethesda in their games reduced them into generic no-name eternally hostile enemies. They've become bland bad guys, but yellow-green and bigger. Nothing more.
@@DJWeapon8Minus Fawkes and Uncle Leo
In terms of having something to show that there is a food source even in a tiny settlement was done in the very first settlement you visit in the very first game in the series. In Shady Sands, there are too many people wandering around for the 4 buildings that make up the town. But, travel to the eastern part of the town and you will find several rows of farmed foods, and a well to get water from.
Basic 'make a house with hydroponics' would have fixed it. They have a full building to explain how water access is a thing after all.
I like how his video is titled "Fallout 3 is Better Than You Think", but it seems like half the video he's putting down New Vegas instead of talking about Fallout 3.
Its like Hbomberguys video in defense of dark souls 2 which was the same except he just attack dark souls 1
He's not putting down New Vegas just to put it down, it's literally his favourite game. He's just saying this is a shortcoming in New Vegas and it's not necessarily the same in Fallout 3, or if it is the same it doesn't get any flak for being in NV while it does in 3.
Except any time he cites a negative of NV, he's either wrong or being disingenuous to try to make Fo3 look better.
@@TheShinyShow did you watch the video or did you just ignore every point creetosis brought up
@@Regularguy220 That was half, the other half was strawmanning MathewMatosis' critique of Dark Souls 2. God I hate that video so much.
A funny anecdote I want to share. So in a recent run of Fallout 3 I did, I went straight to Rivet city from vault 101, just to see if I can. And yes I can do that. However, for some inexplicable reason, the moment I talked the guard standing before the entrance, I have the option to ask "Where is Dr Li?" despite the fact at this point in time my character should have no idea who Dr Li is or why are we looking for her.
This goes to show how shallow Bethesda quest design philosophy is
Holy moley...
In new Vegas you can also side skip about 60% of the primary quest, 90% if you go yes man.
There's plenty of shallowness and half thoughts in new Vegas to
@@gofuckthyself420 yes, but the progression in New Vegas makes sense in terms of quest designs. You go to a location, explore for information and the quest will progress accordingly. You can't suddenly gain knowledge your character was not supposed to have. The courier needs to be in Benny's suite in order to have access to the yesman route and the quest will go from there. You don't just suddenly have the option in a dialogue to ask Victor "Where is Yesman?" like in the example I gave in my anecdote
@@SaintKuro except you can cheese plenty of quests in new Vegas the same way. In yes man you automatically know a tribe, what they believe and to make a decision on the end game result simply by walking within range of their settlement, don't even need to make actual contact.
@@SaintKuro hell you can go straight to Vegas from good springs and be able to tell swank that Benny is going against house, without any knowledge but that Benny shot you and took your package. You don't even know house yet you know Victor a securtion sure but not house.
"AUGH BEEDIO 2 LONG."
(Same individual possibly gorging same amount of hours of media anyway)
worse yet, he's consuming eight straight hours of goyslop, porn and endless TikToks
As bad as Skyrim is, and I'm very aware of the massive flaws, i still have a deep love for the game. I play tons of different games spanning many different genres. I'm NOT a casual gamer by any measurement but i still love Skyrim. I even have objective reasons for liking it not just opinions. I feel no anger when i hear criticisms about the game. Why do fallout fans get mad?
It's not just Fallout fans, you get this for literally everything. Star Wars, MCU, DCEU, etc. A lot of people can't handle the things they love being criticized, even _if_ that criticism is entirely accurate and justified. Many seem to take it as a personal attack on themselves, as though by criticizing something, you're telling them they can't or aren't allowed like the thing, or something...It's really strange behavior.
@@Creetosis Aye. I didn't word the end of my comment very well. My main complaint with apologists is that without enough critics and criticisms we won't get good products. I'm completely expecting Elder Scrolls 6 to be shit. Bethesda know they can put in the bare minimum and still make a profit. "Rule of cool" and all that. Maybe Microsoft will put the boot to them but i won't get my hopes up.
@@Creetosis As long as the person criticizing isn't a jerk to people who like the thing under criticism, I'm completely fine with it. Taking criticism against something you like as a personal attack is just childish.
Same I really like Skyrim, on my first playthrough I liked it so much that I directly wanted to get all achievments (which I only do in games I like) sadly Im german so not able to get all achievments which is shit xD
@@thebuddah1253 I agree with your point but criticism in the gaming industry means very little and rarely ends up actually changing things. Bathesda is a prime example of this. Screw the critics, just keep releasing the same game for nearly a decade...
*_Fallout 3 is full of morally-interesting, multiple-solution quests, with hidden choices, in the main plot_*
_(And by morally-interesting, I mean you can be a normal person, or cartoonishly evil)_
_(And by multiple-solution, I mean you can do a dungeon/fetch-quest, or not)_
_(And by hidden choices, I mean one alternative dialogue option locked behind in-universe knowledge)_
_(And by the main plot, I mean the combination of the main questline, and a specific sidequest that fits my current argument)_
_((And by combination, I mean only the latter))_
I think that's what InnuendoStudios would call a "ship-of-Theseus argument"
Your pfp make this comment even better
>Lamplight
Just give us an option to sneak around or climb over the wall and force our way past the children (even if we can't kill them)
The whole place should have been hidden and optional, a place you'll have to find after talking to other people in Big Town.
@@Duchess_Van_Hoof Lamplight as a concept shouldn't even exist in Fallout.
New Vegas did the "mutants on a doomed mission" idea mentioned at 3:14:29 better in Come Fly With Me. A band of nightkin searching for stealth boys, learning that there was a shipment sent to the REPCONN test site and getting violent when they couldn't find it. The outcomes for them are that either the player kills them, or the player sneaks past to avoid violence and gives their leader evidence that the stealth boys aren't there.
It's so funny how he fails to remember that killing Caser in New Vegas has consequences around the mojave. A bunch of new characters get new lines and you get new dialogue options. Compared to the dialogue option that lets the player not have a gun.
Not to mention killing Caesar is
(SPOILERS FOR NV SIDEQUEST)
the only way to make Chief Hanlon stop making false reports and convince him he was wrong WITHOUT Hanlon committing suicide. I ALWAYS thought that was some amazing writing, here's this old veteran so demoralized by the situation that he secretly sabotages his own country in an attempt to make the NCR pull out of this fiasco of a 'war'. He's in fact so certain of his beliefs due to his own experiences that the only way to convince him that he's truly wrong and that the Legion will fail, without killing himself, is by killing Caesar. Which in one motion proves how vulnerable the Legion is, but also puts the final nail in the Legions coffin, since Caesar was as integral to the Legion and Genghis Khan was to the real life Mongol Empire. Which also made me realize how similar those two leaders were which is really interesting to think about.
I lov kil kaser from kazare's legon
@@SOGTheGamer is that true? I missed that. See, THIS is an example of something being done so good and hidden well enough that a player could overlook it, and I've put over 1k hours into NV personally
@@Lezzy5829 it is true in base game, there is however, a cut option that isn't properly implemented in the game files, in camp mcarran, you can interrogate a legion centurion called Silus, if you have high intelligence you can convince him that you are working for the legion and get him to spill the beans about Ceaser's illness early in the game, but again, sadly it isn't implemented properly so it doesn't appear, you either need an specific mod or iirc John sawyer's directors cut mod for it to be enable
@@lonelyandrudeguy3594 yeah I remember seeing Silus in a cut content video. I guess I never paid attention to dialogue like that till recently. Playing games young will do that to you
Content creators having nerd fights is honestly kind of amusing.
I completely agree I’m praying we get a 36 hour response to this response
I don’t get this comment
@@AuXiiLia 8 hours on youtube.
@@drycomplimentary6363 ^
@@tomguglielmo9805 long man bad cry more
I will readily admit that I’ve got rose tinted glasses when it comes to fallout 3. It’s the game that got me started in the fallout series and I would not of had the connection to it as I do now had I not played it. I will admit that the game is not as great as I remember, but the game holds a dear place in my heart.
Just don't let disingenuous points try and validate your feeling about something. It's damn disappointing that Many a True Nerd is just as terrible as HHBomberGuy with his strawmanning...
Megaton has literal unnamed filler NPC's, but guy knows where everyone lives.
Fallout 1 and 2 had unnamed filler NPCS you couldn't talk to. I don't know why this matters.
@@doomdimensiondweller5627 It matters cos it proves that John is straight up lying for some of his points. He knows where everyone lives when lots of the population are unamed NPCs? Sure, John.
@@grandempressvicky6387 any person with ab rain cant be this bad faith. he was very clearly talking about the named characters
@@doomdimensiondweller5627because in those games the cities were relatively huge so obviously not every individual could be name, it was also made 10 years prior. Fallout 3 has like 20 npcs in its big cities and the majority are unnamed, isn't that odd?
@@grandempressvicky6387 What an idiotic take. He is clearly talking about named NPCs. To pretend he means something diffrent is just plain dumb.
I enjoyed the time I spent with Fallout 3. I don't feel compelled to contrive and contort my way into defending its technical or structural shortcomings. Apparently this is a hard thing for people to grapple with, so they have to desperately assert that something is basically perfect to justify why they like it.
It's okay to admit things like worldbuilding in Fallout 3 or dungeon design in Skyrim are mediocre at best. That doesn't mean you're an asshole for liking the flawed piece of media you like, because basically every piece of media has flaws. But angrily defending the flawed media as not actually flawed with flimsy and increasingly emotional reasoning _does_ make you an asshole.
Skyrim is a bordeline broken, often times shallow, and severely flawed game. And yet, it's still one of my favorite games ever and I'll play it again someday.
Every piece of media ever is flawed, games more so than just about any other. it's perfectly fine to absolutely adore a game, but still recognize that at some level it's flawed
Hey, you know what else makes you an asshole? Acting like Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas are nothing short of the second coming of Christ and that ANYTHING made by Bethesda, regardless if it's really truly flawed or not, is the worst thing since cancer. Just throwing that out there.
Also gonna have to strongly disagree with you both on Fallout 3 and Skyrim having bad worldbuilding. Sure, they don't do the best of showing off the world or tying it and the story together. A good example of that is the Civil War in Skyrim, but the lore and the world it's self, as in geography, are literally Bethesda's biggest strength. Unless you are an absolutely militant hater of Bethesda, pretty everyone agrees that Bethesda's worldbuilding is stellar. Fallout 3 in particular is one of the most atmospheric and immersive games I've ever played. You can argue whether that atmosphere is correct for the franchise or the timeperiod, but to say it's bad on it's own, is just not correct. The train tunnels in 3 annoy most and I can understand why, but I actually thoroughly enjoy exploring them. I would say New Vegas's tendency to put gates everywhere in the city and surrounding areas is more annoying then the tunnels ever word. But that is subjective and the it isn't really Bethesda or Obsidian's fault because both, at least from what I am to understand, were answers to console/engine limitations at the time. The Gamebryo engine, ugh, don't get me started. Dungeon design in Skyrim, yeah, okay, fair enough.
@@TheHulk1850 tldr
@@TheHulk1850 When you're so triggered by a moderate opinion that mentions how stupid it is to emotionally fly off the handle about a video game, you emotionally fly off the handle about a video game.
Note: Lanius was always meant to have a facial scar to match the stories but engine limitations prevented it. He IS the guy of legends. You were never meant to really see his face as a player.
Is this said by the devs?
@@Synkronist Aye, Joshua Sawyer said it on a twitch stream they did. Lanius is the genuine article through-and-through. The same apply to Graham who has a piece of bandage headgear the player can’t remove - if you console it away or otherwise reveal his face, he’s just got a normal face underneath.
Yeah I couldn’t believe he tried to use that as part of his argument for why Lanius probably isn’t the original guy in the story. Not once do we see him without his helmet so why would they waste time designing that
No, we need to see his face to get any serious character emotion or development from him. How else can you get good reactions? /s /s /s
Halo TV defenders, your defenses will be memed into oblivion.
@@The60FOVDemon I do get that they couldn't do it, but I did get very disappointed after I pulled his mask off his corpse and saw a regular corpse
I will never get over how Jon argues that Legate Lanius is "just some guy" compared to Colonel Autumn. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of how both characters are portrayed as antagonists: Lanius being a mythic figure Caesar uses to scare everyone, Autumn being a hunting dog for President Eden. It just highlights how ill-constructed his whole video turned out.
@Varsancton It's not easy per se, it takes quite a bit of checks to convince him to stand down and realize that the Legion can't hold onto the Dam for long
@Varsancton 90 speech is really high, the only other check i can think of off the top of my head that's that high allows you to talk down a group of jonesing nightkin from stealing the mk2 stealthboy and using it to upgrade all the others to feed their addiction to the fullest extent. In the case of Lanius he's also definitely not just a brute, both from the conversation with him and what Vulpes and Ulysses say.
@@elijahvelasco8963 But would Lanius care? Lanius does not care about the Legion in the slightest, he just wants to fight and conquer, so I have a very hard time believing that he would be able to be talked down and leave peacefully, just because the Legion wouldn't be able to hold it.
@@morganfitch8325 But he does care about the Legion at least somewhat. It's shown through those speech checks that he doesn't want the Dam to be the place where the Legion dies and falls apart. He'd rather go back and deal with everything happening there first than to stretch the Legion thin. Plus it takes quite a bit of convincing to talk him down in the first place
@@elijahvelasco8963 it's still the whole "you can talk the final boss into acting in the opposite way of what he has done for his whole life" thing that plague many CRPGs. In FO1 makes sense, in arcanum for example is forced as fuck. I'd say that on a sliding scals from The Master to Khergan Lanius is way closer to the latter.
I appreciate all your Fallout 3 footage during this response is your character going on a bloody murdering rampage in every region depending on the topic the response is covering 😂
The reason Lanius works is because he doesn't really represent one person. He is the combined ideology of the legion, something you have been fighting against (or with) and debating the entire game. It doesn't matter that he poofs into existence. The fact that other people wear the hat IS THE EXACT FUCKING POINT OF THE CHARACTER. HE is the quintessential definition of "an idea, not a person", and the ideology is what's important, not the individual man. That was the EXACT point New Vegas was trying to make. What a fucking STUPID argument by john. Sorry for caps, it just makes me so angry seeing people just utterly misunderstand a work they are criticising. Also if you have to tear down another work to defend one, it's not a good work.
This is the exact point I argued with my Discord. Lanius is the representation of the ideal legionarie and it subsequently doesn't matter who he is under the mask just what he represents with that mask on. I am so glad other people realized this and praise NV for this.
you can't argue with fallout 3 fans, they're low iq enough to play fallout 3, but not high enough to not get filtered in the starting area of new vegas.
It's actually a bit more literal with Lanius. When you ask around, try and put together his story, and compare everything to the man you meet? He's definitely not the tribal monster that championed the name to start. He's not a man, but a symbol for the Legion to rally behind, and enemies to fear.
The actual Lanius is likely long dead, with you meeting the current successor to the armor.
It was why he was recruited by caesar cuz of how he was like the idea-in-person.
But if those are supposed to be the CORE ideals of the legion. Why is it so easy to convince them to drop them, and run? IF he really is meant to be an idea not a person. Then the players interaction with him makes a mockery of the entire legion, and the game itself.
Oh the legion are these completely crazy psychos with spears that don't even bow to machinegun fire, and are hellbent into making the rest of the world their slaves. But you can send them running with their tail between their legs if your 1 charisma having ass can blurt out the right consonants. The essential villain faction of the game drops any and all ideology at encountering resistance in favor of pragmatism, so their ideology was in the end null and void.
you know what i agree, not seeing Lanius once until end game is a much smarter execution. Because after hearing stories from Legion and Ulysses you know what kind of man he was but not by appearance, making it mysterious enough to know he could be a threat to you. Autumn shows up one scenario to another but hasn't done anything meaningful or feel as threatening to the player.
I also think that it was a smart way to have an "essential NPC" for himself to be there only when it was meant for you to fight him, that not only helped you know how he was and what he did by the words of the others like the Legion seems to use it as an intimidation strategy when you meet Vulpes, but it's way better than himself just being there in the legion compound being immortal until he isn't anymore.
I never heard of him cuz i didn't talked to chief Hanlon and Ulysses or any other legionary so his appearance was a surprise. Even more surprising was him one-hitting Boone in power armor and with anit-material rifle
He's like that annoying villain that's just evil to annoy you and be the weak and un-climactic final villain
You know something that would have made the Enclave seem more threatening, real, and legitimately dangerous? A scene where you return to a town you had to go to for a main quest and some side missions (maybe with a companion living there), only to find Autumns and his men dragging civilians from their homes and executing them in the streets, burning down homes, and destroying everything. Perhaps a cutscene type thing happens where Autumns drags the mayor/the optional companion out from their home by their hair, throws them down into the mud, and shoots them in the back of the head without batting an eye. Kinda like what Vulpes did to Nipton, but after letting you get to know these characters and town. An emotional gutpunch for those that cared, and a sign that the Enclave truly is a deadly and ruthless force. Make them a real presence that actually changes the face of the map permanently.
I find it laughably ironic he is going to critisize players for wanting to murder the children in Lamplight, but then questions the morality of killing slavers because "theyre people too"; lol ok
"Sorry Penny, you may be enslaved, but mass murdering all these slavers is a bit mean"
also, the children are essentially LARPing
if you want to act like adults, then I should have the right to shoot you as if you were an adult :P
In the "can't talk down the guard" section, he presents "running pass the guard as" a legitimate choice, but admonishes it in fallout 1 as illegitimate with the rats.
John Kendall is treated like those cave rats and the creatures in FO2's Temple of Trials, which is pretty awful. I guess it's because Bethesda feels a compulsion to have players start out as prisoners in their games, whereas in this instance he could've been a counterpart to Cameron whom you could at least pickpocket for the key or talk out of fighting.
…How very contrived, especially if Amata's treated like dirt but is perfectly willing to tell her "backstabber" their dad left and indirectly killed Jonas.
I think my main problem with MATN's video is that so little of it is actually about trying to prove that Fallout 3 is better than you think. I think his video would be so much better if he never referenced New Vegas at all. Instead of focusing on what Fallout 3 does well and lifting it up, his strategy seems to be to criticize New Vegas and bring it down so that 3 and New Vegas don't seem to be that different in quality. I honestly think that there is some great untapped potential for a video that actually shows the things that Fallout 3 did well, because I do think that there are some parts of 3 that are fantastic and deserve more recognition. But such a video would have to acknowledge the shortcomings of Fallout 3, just like any honest critique of any game should do.
I can think of several things that make Fallout 3 "Better than you think" if you think that its a game that is not fun at all. I find a lot of Fallout New Vegas fans (Myself included,) do enjoy what Fallout 3 and 4 fans enjoy about those games. If I don't feel like doing the same quests I did in New Vegas and if I can turn my brain off, both those games suffice.
The issue is many Fallout New Vegas fans that actually have thought about which game is their favorite instead of just simply jumping on "the one for smart people" already accept that Fallout 3 and 4 are fun, just not good RPGs.
@@Elitex62 Right. I am a huge FONV fan but I still played plenty of FO4 and FO3.
When you’re a fan of the older FO games and you want to play the newer ones, you just have to accept that what you’re playing isn’t really fallout. It’s more of a dungeon crawling looter shooter, especially FO4.
I can still enjoy these games. Not every game needs to be the best game you’ve ever played. The world of Fallout and the little stories and mysteries in each of the games allow me to play the more disappointing entries into the series.
I can do all of that, while also believing that FO3 and FO4 don’t hold a candle to FONV. Which in my opinion is one of the best games ever made.
The reason why Lanius works and Autumn doesn't...
Even though we SEE more of Autumn, he's not an effective villain. He isn't the guy in charge, he doesn't seem particularly bright or well spoken, physically he's no more intimidating than any other soldier we've seen (not even in power armor, for some reason)... he's just a grunt, that does things for Eden. The times we see him, HE doesn't actually do anything. His men capture us, he's almost killed by our father poisoning him with radiation, he pontificates to us before being called off by Eden so we can meet with him, then he just shows up at the end for us to blow his head off like he's no other common raider we've encountered. He's a boob. He's not effective as an opponent.
As for Lanius, even without seeing the man for the majority of the game, his legend is built up. We see the things the Legion does that are brutal and horrific, they use terror tactics to demoralize their enemies. All of them idolize, almost deify Lanius. They talk about him, clearly scared, but also inspired by his conquests. Without ever seeing Lanius, we know this man is going to be an immense obstacle for us if we oppose the Legion, and when we finally meet him, he lives up to his reputation. He has a striking appearance, a commanding presence, a powerful voice and speaks clearly, confidently, if a bit bluntly. He doesn't seem stupid, certainly doesn't seem incompetent. He feels like a figure that the Legion would follow if Caesar fell, and wouldn't be at a total loss. He can even be reasoned with, because he's not strictly a one-dimensional henchmen for the guy that's actually in charge.
THAT is why Autumn is just some guy, and Lanius is an adversary.
the virgin _"yOu aGaIn?"_
VS
The Chad *"We shall see how brave you are when nailed to the walls of Hoover Dam, your body facing West so you may watch your world die."*
And yet, even after all that. Even after learning what kinda guy he is, that he KILLED his own men for surrendering...you can make him surrender...that doesn't make sense. Also Eden was never really the one I charge. Notice how every human in the base disobeyed Eden when Autumn said to kill you?
@@ORIGINALFBI If you call it a surrender or a retreat, he fights you anyway. He's not surrendering, he's not admitting defeat, and he's not retreating. You convince him to just leave, that Hoover Dam and the Mojave aren't important compared to keeping the Legion's conquered homeland maintained. You've convinced him that this is a losing battle of attrition, where the Legion would die off not from defeat by a enemy, but because the land can't support them if they attempt to spread out and hold it, and you use the previous failures at the dam and the NCR's failings as evidence of supporting that idea. So no, you don't convince him to "surrender", you convince him that win or lose, the dam and the Mojave aren't worth it to the Legion.
@@Gakusangi If he runs away from you, that's a surrender. And Lanius was described as the guy who would never surrender. You're just coming up with excuses. This is even worse than getting the proof to get The Master to surrender. Because at least he was the kind guy who would realize his plan is doomed. There's a reason Ceaser uses the bull as a symbol. Whe. Bulls see red, they don't stop.
@@ORIGINALFBI That's not an excuse, there's context. If you want to ignore all the context then you can make up whatever you want, but it doesn't make it true. Just because you disregard the dialogue doesn't change why Lanius leaves or why you were able to convince him to and what the means.
Next time, try coming up with an argument that isn't immediately countered by what's in the script that anyone can read for themselves, it just makes you look stubbornly dismissive.
Megaton being a crater lake in rainy DC honestly sounds like a much more interesting idea than what Megaton is in-game. Maybe some settlers found a little settlement at the crater lake, not knowing there was a literal bomb at the bottom of it. Then the bomb started leaking radiation, and the people didn't find out until it was too late. Turning many into corpses, while turning others into feral ghouls. Now it sits as a permanent reminder and lesson to all those who remember the town's story: Make sure your water is fucking clean.
Megaton doesn't make sense to begin with, either. The water pipes are leaking for one, even Shamus Young points out in The Blistering Stupidity of Fallout 3 how and why that town is so nonsensical.
I mean, all the water in DC is radioactive so it really doesn’t matter to wastelanders
The amount of comments here that resort to mocking the videos length instead of the arguments made is just funny.
Because you don't need 8 hours to say a game is bad. NV fans lose their minds when you enjoy 3 over NV or say "I think it's better."
This guy is literally the type of NV fan everyone makes fun of
@@idontexist1086 You are literally the guy this comment is pointing out
I think the complaint of the video length is pretty valid. That's an entire work shift's worth of time for a lot of people, and I'm sure Creetosis could of trimmed a lot of what was said, left out a lot of the less imperative counter points to MAAD' s video, and so on.
"Brevity is the soul of wit."
@@idontexist1086 also that's not what MATN(Many a True Nerd) or Creetosis said or did.
MATN misrepresented his opposition as those who wanted the roleplay ability to KILL CHILDREN(camp searchlight) based on them wanting "violent solutions." Now personally I don't consider murder the only violent thing possible, in fact I'd go as far to say that you can be violent and not directly hurt anyone. Such as, I don't know, detonating a gate with explosives?
Creetosis was calling MATN out on his terrible arguments, misrepresentation of the facts, and lying.
Calling out nonsense takes an extra order of time as it does to make stuff up so when Creetosis called out MATN on ALL(2 hour video) of it, it took 4x as long (8 hours). Now to be fair, he could've made a shorter video with more time and effort, something like 6 or maybe 4 hours. Creetosis also could've fragmented the video into multiple parts to make the excessively long video less daunting to watch.
@@idontexist1086 You are a typical bethesda fanboy. You refuse to hear the actual arguments someone is saying instead you make shit up and insult because you lack the capacity for rational discussion.
7:31:00 it isn't even that hard, just donate water repeatedly for good karma and open someone's computer repeatedly for bad karma
Or
How I achieved 23.8 GigaHitlers by borrowing someone's computer
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 You wouldn't download a car
@@flyingsky1559yes, yes I would.
For your dungeon listing, you didn't mention the two other outdoor areas infested with deathclaws: Gypsum Trainyard, and the unmarked one north east of Cottonwood Cove: Deathclaw Promontory. That specific area is unmarked but has level-based Deathclaws (blinds, young, adults, etc all based on your level when you enter to spawn the enemies in the cell) and it has the only suit of Remnant Power Armor in the game not being worn by a member of the Enclave Remnants. So while New Vegas has maybe fewer 'dungeons' than Fallout 3's actual dungeons, they all feel more meaningful, most cases anyway. Obsidian's New Vegas is all about quality over Bethesda's Fallout 3's quantity and set-piece design.
Even tho New Vegas actually had more quests and more memorable ones.
@@gh05tnoh24 Would you be surprised if I told you that even after all these years, I have yet to discover every last side quest? I know a few still elude me to this day.
@@Valkod23 I’m NV? I have to say yeah same. I’m not surprised.
i thought i had explored a major chunk of the map. then i hit the explorer perk and saw i wasnt even 1/5ths done.
@@gh05tnoh24 ok but you gotta understand fallout 3 was the first 3d fallout. so duh its not gonna be as good as later fallout games. fallout 3 is and will forever be my favorite fallout game
Is it weird that I can just enjoy my bad games without injecting lethal doses of copium?
Great vid, what a complete destruction of poor argumentation.
Nothing wrong with enjoying bad/poorly made games. Thanks!
Nope, you understand the difference between objective and subjective is all.
I like The Room and know damnwell it's...well, THE ROOM!
It's not weird we all do it
you're allowed to enjoy whatever you want because you are you and only you can judge the feeling it imparts.
Just because something is bad by societal standards to keep quality high doesn't mean that you can't have a personal opinion or even argue that it's good from a more emotional standpoint.
and I have to say all of this because one of my favourite horror games is called. "A poop in the dark"
@@vapid6311 poop in the dark ain't bad
I can actually agree that the NV intro didn't need everything contained in it, because the game does give you all that info anyway. However, I think it's a good hook, and it's nice to lay the groundwork. The problem with 3 is that it's so simple because there's nothing to tell us; there's a blasted wasteland, and the BoS is fighting muties, and there might be some Enclave around somewhere doing who-knows-what. There's no depth to it, so the game has no need to share anything, as it's all about style and big reveals. In NV, even though the intro information might be redundant, it's just a very basic primer; there's so much more to learn about these factions, how they operate, their history, this conflict, the future of the Mojave.
I like it because it tells a neutral story of what's happening whereas anyone you talk to will have their own take on the various factions so it's not really redundant
Also notice how the rest of the game barely acknowledges the BoS and the Enclave and even the 200 year long water crisis in Fallout 3.
Meanwhile, *damn near everyone* is worried about the NCR and the Legion and their years long war in the Mojave and has something to say about it in New Vegas.
The idea of someone thinking that letting the Tenpenny Tower folk die for a rare item is a hard moral choice is horrifying.
Yeah, it was a really weird argument for him to make.
@@Creetosis It’s the first time I’ve heard an argument and thought the person being purposefully disingenuous would make them a better person than if they actually believed their bullshit. I can’t believe this man can’t see the optics of that argument lol.
I kill npc's walking in the street for the lulz
@@moonman2051 enjoy yourself Saint Pepsi. I know which ones you really like to kill.
@@moonman2051 ooooh look out we got a badass over here. Watch that edge, might cut yourself.
I just want to say I disagree heavily with the idea that Goodsprings isn't visually interesting. It immediately comes across as a unique location within the world of Fallout because it's styled like an Old Western town, which is a perfect introduction for a game that can be effectively called a Western post-apocalypse game.
Goodsprings is one my favorite locales bc of how quiet and out of the way it is. The quaint, old west style is just icing on the cake.
Well since good springs is based heavily on the actual town of goodsprings, as are a fuckton of other towns , city's and landmarks in mojave/ Nevada, that is why they actually look good. I don't think the capital wasteland is anything but random gamer assets.
Also,, There really is a giant helios one you can see on the north side of I-15 I mean Long 15 on the way to Las, I mean New Vegas.
I picked up NV a long time ago since it was on sale and I loved Fallout 3. I played for maybe 30 minutes and stopped BECAUSE I found Goodsprings boring as hell. I just didn't really have much interest in it and the tutorial. Just a year ago I finally picked it up again and I forced myself to play until I reached Vegas itself (since I wanted to give it an honest attempt) and I really enjoyed it. Now I play it off and on whenever I want to goof around and discover some new town I never knew existed.
Anyways my point is I disagree. Goodsprings was the worst part about my NV experience and I personally feel the game would have been better off with a different starting area. But that's just my opinion.
@@william4996 You sound like you have ADD/ADHD and a double-digit IQ.
its sad to think that there are actual people out there who make a claim on a topic and then when someone rebuttals it, they turn around are like "im not reading all that lol i won just face it"
Did MATN say that?
If it works at their universities, why not try it everwhere else?
@@myyoutube4906 no it was a comment shown somewhere in the video where someone says “while you have a wall of text, I have actual proof” and links 3 flowers at Arlington cemetery to life in the wasteland
There's a difference between "I'm not reading all that" and not being up for watching something that is longer than the original Lord of The Rings Trilogy (and nearly as long as the combined extended versions).
thats such a chad thing to do, completely reduces the opposing argument to pretentious autistic ramblings
"im not reading that" is so powerful
also i cant read
The part where MATN rambles about how brilliant FO3 is for putting shit off the beaten path makes no sense to me. In NV you can absolutely just run past 90% of that content. I kept finding new stuff on said path I had never seen before like 5 playthroughs in. In FO3 once you run through everything on your first go that's pretty much it. I think I only missed like 2 locations in the DC ruins on my first run of FO3.
I have a feeling that the people that say "well NV just feels so much more empty" are actually braindead, because NV literally has tons of content centered around different hubs across the map. FO3 has Megaton, Rivet City and then like 5 Megaton-lite places and super mutant camps 10 meters from every settlement. It's just a post apocalyptic map filled with dungeons and no replayability.
If the only thing of importance in a throwaway dungeon was a slightly better plasma pistol then there was no importance.
Broc flower cave was only good for Ratslayer, and a bit of caps, the shack was good for a BB gun, the shack that you get the Chopper from is only good for that.
@@Lance-The-BoS-Lancer And a nice reference to ROUS' if you have wild wasteland on, and if you find the caravan there you can find the lincolnn memorial head strapped to it's back.
And those things weren't really dungeons. They were quick entry caves and/or a small shack.
29:40 Is he forgetting Arcade Gannon in New Vegas? If you convince him to fight with the enclave you don't get his power armor and he uses it in the battle at hoover dam
Did not know that
And there’s multiple consequences depending on what route you go after that
@@TheLastRegnadian My favorite being the Yes Man ending, where he is a lot more assertive
@@AgentDanielCross that when his character model legit walks through the ending cards? Had that happen twice and didn't know why an npc that was dead was walking through the ending slides
@@Leotheleprachaun That would likely be cannibal Johnson, fucker always walks through the ending slides if you bring him to the dam
Fallout 3 would have been so much better if they just set it soon after the war. Maybe even sooner after the war than fallout 1 and 2. They had it on the other side of the world anyway. Then they could have their abundance of prewar tech, weapons, scavenged food. See how the first people to come out of vaults barely managed to scrape by on scavenged food, the vaults food sources or stores would be competed for, desperate people resort to radioactive creatures. Bethesda could have even kept the enclave in. It would make sense for them to be on the east coast and for no one in fallout 1 or 2 to know about it. It would be some fanfic stuff but it would be feasible that they have an east coast refuge in the apocalypse like the oil rig but on the east coast. Or they could have missions sent out from the oil rig to other parts of the wasteland before they get blown up in fallout 2. Hell I would even be okay if F.e.v. is in one of the vaults or with the enclave thing. Id it such a stretch that the government could have two military bases with f.e.v.?
But Bethesda wanted to keep the brotherhood of steel in the game. Some other faction besides the big baddies that had been out getting prewar tech before normal wastelanders. So they made it set way afterword but then kept the world design in recent apocalypse mode.
Setting Fallout 3 early after the great war seems to address many of the problems it has.
I'd be fine with this version of the game, but on several other conditions:
* No brotherhood of steel
* The world must be consistent in showing and telling you about the lack of clean water. Which means more sidequests related to it (settlements trying to dig wells, create small improvised inefficient purifiers of their own, etc) and making Hardcore mode mandatory.
* Multiple factions (that are not wacky and weird jokes like in vanilla F3) are vying for control of the purifier.
* Enclave can be joined. But joining them is a difficult process.
Fun fact, it was originally going to be set a few years after the Bombs. Unfortunately, Emil happened.
@Joe Brown If I remember correctly, it was cited in some developer commentaries. I'll try to find them, and link them if I do.
Honestly, that would be interesting..the BoS could be replaced with US army remnants and their descendants/recruits, which would still fill the role the BoS did
@@DJWeapon8 couple problems:
Mandatory hardcore mode sounds awful. I think there’s a good reason why NV made it optional, which is to make it a fun little challenge for players.
Joining the enclave shouldn’t be possible unless they’re starved for people. Enclave members see themselves as pure and the last members of American society, so I honestly agree with colonel autumn’s stance of killing the mongrel player after they give him the purifier code. Even in Fallout 2 there wasn’t a way to join the enclave because they’re an extremely inclusive faction.
Dungeons in RPGs is one of the laziest dumb shit ever. I get the use of a "dungeon" to tell a contained story, but just because NV doesn't have that many "classic dungeons" as in "linear bs filled to the brim with damage sponge enemies" doesn't mean it doesn't tell it's own stories in different locations. Locations that actually make sense not "way too elaborate metro service station #267 filled with more super mutants".
5:43:03 "It ends up feeling like Fallout themed amusement park"
THIS is what have been on my tongue.
I couldn't say what exactly was wrong with F3 besides lack of stuff to do. The (one of) biggest problem is that the world feels so... Dull, raw, static. Like a cheap carnival attraction.
Someone might say: like morrowind’s open world?
@@potbem5333 but one would rightfully expect a drastic improvement after a decade instead of trying to justify "eh if it was like that earlir then it will be okay now". Besides, Morrowind atleast has a good story and lore background.
That’s how I feel about 3 and 4. 4 while a very pretty game just feels like a shooter game with fallout thrown on top. The weak dialogue options and the Perks! just feel overused. Dialogue in the game and 3 is more of hassle than anything else. I don’t feel like I have much of a choice in 3 or 4. It’s very black and white as to what to do and who to side with. Feels weak
"Lack of stuff to do"
The game was never made to be an elder scrolls, there's only a hand full of missions and things to do, because it was tightly designed
The game is more story focused. People judge fallout 3 through the frame of it being a Bethesda game, and not what its actually doing.
A tight narrative driven RPG light, with exploration and choices.
@@potbem5333 morrowind was made in 2002 and still had more to offer than fallout 3
At least you can actually JOIN THE LEGION in NV, whereas the closest you can do to “aiding the Enclave” is poisoning the water for absolutely no reason.
Imagine if cooperating with Autumn from the very beginning allowed you to work for/join the Enclave? Would have added a LOT more replayability and could have lead to a lot of interesting bonuses and negatives (easy access to the best tech with trade offs being most of the capital wasteland hates your guts/having to deal with the brotherhood as basic ideas)
It’s laughable for Jon to compare Lanius and Autumn on any level, given that the way each game handles interacting with those factions is so astronomically different. I’d argue you can’t even really call the Enclave in Fallout 3 a “faction”. They’re basically raiders with power armor and better weapons with how they’re treated outside of the final push to purity and raven rock.
You can't join the Legion. You always remain an outsider associate
@@zekun4741 Yeah, this applies to every nearly every faction in the game, save the Kings and the Brotherhood. But that is effectively what happens with the Legion, the semantics of what joining strictly means aren't important, same with the NCR. You never "join" them but you might as well be the most important member they have, given what you end up doing for them if siding with them.
Enclave ending would have been cool, infact that would have made it almost exactly as good as NV, except in NV you get like 3 or 4 options lol
You can’t join the Enclave. On top of being an outsider, they very literally consider wastelanders to not be human.
@@danielgorbun9507 This. I see people say they would like to have been able to join the Enclave so you can get more choices, and I definitely understand that, but the lore of the series is that if you aren't already a part of the Enclave, then you are seen as not human/pure/etc. If you had been able to join the Enclave, you'd see criticism for that for not being lore friendly.
I actually have strong feelings about outer New Vegas. I spent a lot of time there, watching the NPCs, the rat chasing children, the junkies, the raiders, the Followers of the Old Mason Fort. It had an odd charm to me.
You’re thinking of Freeside, he was talking about the area just outside of that. The issue is, he’s still wrong, that’s where the Gun Runners, Crimson Caravan, and New Vegas Clinic are, basically the three best vendors in the game.
Free side is so cool idk why but it just is, one of my fav areas in any video game. It feels so real and organic to me
@@Slender_Man_186 there's also aerotech office park and the sharecropper farms, and their associated quests
@@nottherealpaulsmith Eh, the Sharecropper farm does lead you to Vault 34, but I honestly forget that the other place exists.
@@Slender_Man_186 aerotech only has like two quests but it takes you to westside, which most people forget about
Hilarious that literally every single criticism of this video boils down to "bro why do you care so much" and big ol' strawmen. Super predictable, but hilarious.
It’s because they have no real defense.
Somehow the "Why do you care so much?!" never happens when people agreed in MATN's Fallout 3 video. Guess this completely arbitrary time limit they put on themselves only works one way.
His argument about NV not having "rewards at the end of the dungeon" is precisely the mentality that, when implemented, is what made fallout 4 and Skyrim so much worse. Bethesda sacrificed actually good writing and mechanics in favor of material rewards for everything the player does
And also, most unique weapons are indeed tied to dungeons, but most of em are from dungeons that have quests (such as the Euclid C finder or that unique laser rifle in the plant vault) but, when there are unique items on the world it can be like A: Gobi sniper rifle, a cool item tied in with a nice tidbit of lore wich explains why it is thrown around
B- things like the Paladin toaster, that make sense on the worldbuilding: it is in a cave near HELIOS 1, where the former brotherhood ocupation justifies the presence of an weapon fashioned to deal with Power Armor
So , even with the fact that there are less reward lying around, New Vegas actually makes the rewards have a sensible place in the world
Also, what does he mean? A lot of Dungeons have rewards at the end of them/inside of them. Just because there isn't a LOOTBOX9000 Chest doesn't mean there aren't rewards.
Vault 34 literally has an Armory at the bottom of it.
Vault 22 has the AER14 Prototype.
Love and Hate drop off a Raider Boss.
Blade of the East comes from defeating the final boss.
Oh Baby! comes from Charleston Cave.
Beating The Thorn gets you Dinner Bell.
The Q-35 Matter Modulator is in the REPCONN HQ. (One of the first main dungeons)
There's a lot of places where you're rewarded for reaching, or hitting the end. It's just factually incorrect. Did he even play the game?
@@gumhoy5054 apparently not, or if he did, he didn't stray much off the beaten path. Apparently he wants the clearly denoted fallout 4 or Skyrim style unique chest model at the end of the dungeon, in every dungeon, to be full of some kind of reward..like "you won the dungeon, here's your prize"
It's also weird of him to say that, considering New Vegas has a host of unique weapons, armor, skill books, snow globes scattered throughout the world. Just about every location the game doesn't direct you to through a quest at the very least has one of those things, usually a skill book, which is obviously a reward. And a big enough at that, that the player will always seek out random locations just in the hopes of finding these skill books since that's the only way to max out your skills. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, could be that Educated is also enough.
@@markusala-turkia3079 it's not the only way to max out your skills, since you can hit 100 across multiple skills pretty easily. The books do, however, make it faster to do so, or allow you to start funneling points into secondary or tertiary skills sooner. You're right on there being skill books, magazines, snow globes, and unique weapons off the beaten path though. The marksman carbine in the vault 34 armory, as well as Lucky and the unique 9mm SMG in Primm stand out as good examples. The carbine and Lucky are in areas where quests will take you, but still require deviating from the direct path, and investing in lockpicking, and the SMG is an unmarked quest that requires investment in science and examining the case it's supposed to be in, as well as legwork to actually track it down. Tbh, I'd like to see *more* side adventures requiring the use of one's brain like that, and the one in fo3 for the unique Chinese assault rifle, not less
Even as a teenager I didn’t find Fallout 3 very interesting despite being my first Fallout, same with Skyrim on the elder scrolls series. It was not until Fallout NV came out that I found interest in the series.
My friends were playing Skyrim and I was playing Fallout NV. I started to notice little things in the NV like the legion attacking wandering merchants, gangs ambushing me throughout the main roads, etc. All of these things built the world, adding to realism of the world which added to my immersion.
I noticed quests like whitewash, that lucky old sun, and wang dang atomic added more choice but also had creative outcomes to the quest.
Caesar is a great example of making a complex faction that is based heavily on Roman history, and makes sense in the world because of the world building.
when he said he can't find another example during the tutorial bit, I just bursting laughing
the quest about the omereta in new vegas quite literally done everything he complain about
1) when you and cachino going to meet up with big sal and nero, he's going to give you a gun so you can shoot them, but with speech check, you can convince him to keep the gun and be the element of surprise so he will join the shootout
2) after you found out troike smuggle the omereta with weapons, he will give you thermite so you can destroy the weapon cache in the basement, but you could "convince" him to do it himself, and he'll do it, he won't survive it, but you can
3) making cachino start talking require to gain any information about him, which having you to hold his ledger, that could be obtained with 2 ways, having a high enough lockpick skill or talk to the receptionist and get his room key
it's funny all of that actually still in one omereta quest, it's not even beyond the beef where you could have at least 7 ways to complete it
thats so fucking funnyyyyy help how does fhis not have 100000 likes bc that statement bothered me so much as well..
Not to mention the fact that Amata needing that gun in the first place is a colossal reach anyway.
I mean think about it. She says your dad left the vault and that there's security guards hunting you down everywhere. She gives you a gun and says you're gonna need it. Why would you say "No, keep it, you'll need it more"? No one would expect The Overseer to forcefully interrogate his own daughter that he loves more than the entire rest of the vault and we had nothing to tip us off that his head of security is a nut case that would beat a 17 year old girl!
I love how all the background footage is everything that Jon talks about getting murdered lol
Honestly it took me many replays of fallout 3 and new vegas to change my mind and realise the New Vegas was the better game for me. Its far more replayable and had a richer world with more depth to characters etc. I originally loved the 'emptiness' of the Fallout 3 world, as it felt more like a barren post-apocalyptic wasteland but I then realised its too empty...you can have a barren nuclear wasteland and still have it feel rich with lore, characters with depth and meaningful choices. Thats what New Vegas was. It was only on my second or third playthrough of NV that I realised what I once thought was an overly settled and 'busy' wasteland was simply a world that felt more 'alive' with characters who felt more real.
Great words.
@@TTTT-pn3ly Thanks! I've found myself revisiting new vegas time and time again over FO3. I'm actually only just getting round to completing every DLC as on my first playthroughs I gave up on Dead Money because of how hard it was. Every playthrough feels different. I played The Outer Worlds and while I liked it, it was too short to be a AAA RPG
The tragic part is, with 2 main antagonists for the Enclave there is alot they could have done to make them significantly less generic for fairly little additional effort. They could have easily played off the man vs computer dynamic they had going to give 2 completely different viewpoints on the same issue.
With Eden being representative of the Enclaves cruel unfeeling pragmatism, with him being a ZAC, he could justify his actions not with morality,but with pure,cold mathematics to prove his point, Quoting the extremely high rates of miscarriages, the fact that the mutant's are just like, objectively negative for the east coast,high infant death rates in the wastelands etc. Mathematically speaking, nothing that he's saying is incorrect. In terms of pure numbers wiping the slate clean would, in the long run, be better for humanity and likely cause less fatalities and suffering than letting a radiation infested humanity trudge on with all it's defects.
Autumn meanwhile would be the Human face of the Enclave, representing there blind patriotic values. Somebody who genuinely wants a better future for America, And is not above doing horrible things to innocent people in order to do his "Duty" to his nation, be it due to childhood indoctrination, or even just simple fanaticism. 2 sides of the same coin, Both complicit in the attempted destruction of the wasteland, but for different reasons.
This set-up alone gives them so much more room to give the enclave depth, fuck if they want more endings they could have easily lined up the domino's for an Enclave cival war over the morality of project purity, with the player being allowed to decide if they will side with the reformists to make a more compassionate enclave, or the purists, should they beleive that the ends ALWAYS justify the means. Leaving the player to decide what price is too high to pay for a better future, or to reject the enclave entirely. Obviously this is just a very rough draft I made up rn, but a couple of weeks of story Boarding, and you could make a genuinely decent conflict out of the enclave Instead of making them generic bad guy faction 77798546225
My bad writting Tangent aside though,great video man, I'm going to check out your fallout 4 video
What last numbers are?nuclear warhead setoff code?
@@berikkalimz4195 try em and find out
This was absolutely amazing, me and my friend spend hours rewriting fallout 4 to be better, and you adding a simple dynamic made Fallout 3 infinitely better, and I just want you to know that I absolutely love what you've written
Or they could make a new faction that wasnt wiped from the face of the earth !
I reinstall Fallout 4 after watching Many True Nerds, but I find myself installing vampire mod and become excited about the mod more than the game itself.
I enjoy Fallout 4 as a playground for fan mods, but get bored incredibly quick playing it vanilla.
If they make dialogue interesting like previous mainline Fallout games, I may let all the quest issues go with no complain.
I enjoy the combat system, but that's not the point of why I love the franchise at all.
Yeah, I think the best take I've seen on it is "If you NEED mods to enjoy the game, then the game probably isn't very good." I think a lot of people defending these games also mistake their modded experience for what the vanilla games actually are.
@@Creetosis I hope someone make Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines remake mod for Fallout 4 someday...
@@occultdog2717 sanguis vampire Mod is pretty neat
Basically the reason I still play Skyrim to this day. I did the main quest line once or twice during my 1k+ hours of playing.
Fallout new Vegas is the same, literally no one ever plays new Vegas anymore unmodded.
John’s entire point here reads like, “Fallout 3 caters to my taste, but Fallout New Vegas doesn’t, so Fallout 3 is better.”
That’s an entirely okay opinion though.
Both are incredible games and do come down to taste.
But for this guy to say fallout 3 sucks is ridiculous
@@JonnieColeits your opinion to say both games are incredible, its also his opinion to say fallout 3 sucks. He gives out many of the reason he thinks this way during his critic of many a true nerd’s video. I could say it’s ridiculous that you think fallout 3 is incredible but I don’t because that’s your opinion so don’t call someone else’s opinion ridiculous just because it doesn’t aline with yours.
that's what an opinion is you low IQ individual.
I'm usually a supporter of "rule of cool", but when it completely shatters all sense of suspension of disbelief or hinders player freedom then we're dealing with something that needs some fixing. Rule of cool isn't an excuse for something that just can't work or impedes the player in an irritating way.
The Rule of Cool works only when logic and/or good explanations holds his back
@@elecman748 Rule of cool can work if it breaks a minor rule or two, but if it's a high amount of things that suddenly do make sense or something huge that wouldn't allow it to work, then it's just not a good idea. No-one will be able to dismiss the things it goes against if take it that far.
7:30:43 you forgot to mention that under Mr House or Independent Vegas endings you CAN do only certain faction quests and it will make sense. Many pretends like it makes no sense for you to do quests outside of your faction, ignoring the fact that Mr House doesn't actually hate NCR and in independent ending you decide whatever you wanna do.
Even on a much broader end of that topic you can actually successfully play through a large portion of the game leveling your character without actually committing in any real direction. You can even commit to the extent of eliminating Mr. House and still remain "Accepted" by both NCR and Legion, so yes you absolutely would do quests outside of your eventual preferences because the game doesn't lock you in that quickly. If you utilise your faction pardon you get after killing off Benny you can actually push this pretty far too, but of course as Jon said, you definitely must focus on one faction.
@@thomaswf7284 not even that, you can literally be liked by EVERY faction in the game if you so chose. You can role-play as a character who doesn't want to make an enemy of anybody. I'm at a stage in my main story where I've just killed Mr. House and because of the way I've played the game, I'm Acceped by Goodsprings, I'm liked by the Powder Gangers and BOS, and I'm Idolised by NCR, Legion, Followers, Khan's, Boomers and White Gloves (also idolised by all other locations like the Strip and Novac)
Eventually you'll make an enemy of the NCR or Legion, but the game makes it possible to be liked by 7/8 factions by the endgame. On the flipside, it's incredibly easy to be vilified by them all.
That's what gives New Vegas so much replayability. It still baffles me how you can never side with the Enclave and take over the purifier alongside them. It would have given fallout 3 twice as many options, albeit still only 2
@@jonathanday5647 Woah hold it right there pal how you got accepted by Goodsprings and liked by Powder Gangers? How to even get such positive rep with both factions that hate each other?
@Daniel Survivor you can save the goodsprings settler during Sunnys tutorial to get accepted. Then instead of helping Ringo, just head to the NCRCF to help out thr powder gangers or the powder gangers in the Vault
@@jonathanday5647 Does Goodsprings even get faction ending if you never do their quest?(by faction ending I mean NCR end slide where they get taxed or Mr House end slide where Victor comes to Goodsprings etc)
“Stop, stop! He’s already dead!”