Here is the video of the arguments in the video (stamps start with MATN's argument then Cree's response): 00:10 - Recap of the Previous MATN video that Creetosis responded to. 01:09 - Examples of the Straight-up braindead arguments of MATN's Fallout 3 Video 06:18 - Reddit User in MATN's subreddit misrepresenting Creetosis' video 08:03 - Creetosis's Expectation of MATN's "Fallout 4 is better than you think" when hearing about it 10:30 - Creetosis' first impressions. 12:22 - Jon describes Fallout 4's systems as "elegant" 12:38 - Jon begins the video as he wants to start from the beginning 13:56 - Jon claims the fanbase of Fallout 3 have a higher chance of being more familiar with looter shooters than RPGs. 15:27 - Jon says that if your frame of reference for criticizing Fallout 3's gunplay is the looter shooters in the 90s, than you're correct. 16:27 - Jon doubles down on the moronic argument that fallout 3's gunplay is intentionally bad. 18:39 - Jon claims that boosting gun-related skills will improve the gunplay significantly. 19:34 - fans of the RPG genre were more vocal about Fallout 3's unrefined gunplay. 20:47 - Creetosis explains the simplistic quests of FO3, and how it's inferior to New Vegas. 23:01 - Jon attempts to frame FO4's development as nightmarish. 24:54 - Jon does some serious gold-metal mental gymnastics to try and frame that NV was more the influence of FO4, rather than Skyrim. 25:43 - Jon intentionally makes speculative claims about FO4's development but states it as fact, as if he has insider information or something. 28:12 - Jon, once again, makes a claim without substantiating it with EVIDENCE. 29:04 - Creetosis explains how skyrim would've had more influence on FO4's development than NV. 29:26 - Jon makes another strawman argument. 33:25 - Jon claims that we should've expected the product we got at release because of what Pete Hines said in an interview that hardly anyone watched. 39:18 - Creetosis explains how Fallout 3 & 4's setting is nonsensical. 41:06 - Creetosis explains how to find the nice middle ground between accesible and complex AKA New Vegas. 42:13 - "The Junk System is one of my favourite additions to Fallout 4, it's a brilliant system that adds so much to the game." 43:06 - Jon Starts the actual defence with defending a system that has nothing to do with the critcisms of FO4. 43:28 - Jon attempts to make junk not being valuable to the player a problem. 46:27 - Jon attemptes to prop up an extremely basic system and views it as a net positive. 47:49 - The Junk system, no matter how good or bad it is, doesn't make any game that have it, any less or more well written. 48:35 - Jon gives another non-existenent example in a another attempt to make the previous games' systems look bad. 50:51 - Jon makes another statement without any cited sources beyond "trust me bro" 52:13 - the systems present in FO4 is nothing new and is actually present in many other games like it. 53:16 - "a concerning amount of joy" & "Dynamic Scavenging" 55:49 - "and then it struck me, the game not only to play like a scavenger, but to think like one too." 59:25 - Fallout 4's a game that emphasizes Junk Collecting, in a series that emphasizes role-playing. 1:01:27 - Jon Begins to explain quite literally the progression in almost all of bethesda's games. 1:03:03 - Jon once again, makes the same argument that junk having no value, is a problem. 1:05:55 - "Junk Economy" 1:07:54 - Jon praises the fact that forgetting the main story in a FALLOUT Game, is a good thing. 1:09:19 - Creetosis describes MATN's flowery language and his attempts to title basic stuff with more fantastic names. 1:10:11 - Jon, once a-fucking-gain attempts to prop up a basic system to be bigger than it is. 1:11:15 - Jon props up the same basic system. 1:12:58 - Jon Makes the claim that FO4's weapon modification system fixes the "problem" of the previous game of early-game weapons stagnating. 1:19:09 - Jon Claims that picking a weapon modification is picking a "specialization" 1:20:48 - "I'm about to say a controversial thing." 1:22:28 - Jon claims that the legendary system fixes the "problem" of weapons no longer being useful at a certain point. 1:25:51 - once again, Jon presents another basic opinion, as if it's controversial. 1:27:29 - Jon thinks that making a particular feature good, makes the other features less-important. 1:34:25 - Jon mislabels the criticisms of the game. 1:36:43 - Jon contradicts himself on the whole "looting" argument he made earlier. 1:38:32 - Jon lies about the settlement building feature being optional. 1:40:47 - Jon continues to praise the settlement building feature and claims it's a part of role-playing, while forgetting what role-playing as a character is. 1:44:37 - Jon rightfully praises the reduction in special points, but forgets to mention that it's totally useless. 1:46:16 - Jon Compares the limited amount of special points, to the trait system. 1:51:19 - Jon claims that Skills were never good in controlling the aptitude in key skills. 1:58:52 - Jon claims that skills don't work in a video game. 2:00:01- Jon tries to paint the picture that skills are bad by comparing normal playthrough builds, to SPEEDRUN builds. 2:06:14 - Jon Makes another attempt at making it seem like skills are a bad thing. 2:10:30 - Jon considers his kid-self not understanding the skill system as a problem of how skills work rather than himself not understanding what skill he picked work. 2:12:18 - Jon thinks progressing in skills is a bad thing and makes it seem insignificant. 2:19:06 - "Skills can completely run counter, to role-playing." 2:21:36 - Jon is confused at the anger towards bethesda when they announced they'll be removing skills. 2:23:11 - Jon says that skills being folded into the perk system is a good thing. 2:27:28 - Jon inadvertently praises Skills by praising the fact that NV removed most of the skill-boosting perks from FO3, completely forgetting to mention that FO4 also mostly has skill-boosting perks. 2:31:10 - Jon, Once again, makes an issue of nothing, and props up something basic and calls it "specializing" 2:34:14 - Jon praises the very basic idea of progressing through levels, and Contradicts himself on the whole "min-maxing" thing earlier. 2:36:12 - "You can do a fusion core bombing run, it's amazing!" 2:37:59 - Jon Continues to misunderstand what choice and consequences is. 2:40:09 - Jon makes a series of disingenuous claims about the previous Fallout games. 2:45:32 - Jon, once again, attempts to make the Perk system of Fallout 3 and NV to appear more flawed than it really is. 2:50:01 - Jon thinks FO4 is the best game in the series at letting you build a character that gets to be unique. 2:51:46 - Jon Claims that special being uncapped, and thus being able to manipulate it beyond 10, is specializing. 2:54:59 - Jon Considers the use of chems and food, as further specialization. 3:00:23 - Jon Contradicts himself yet again. 3:10:07 - Jon attempts to defend bethesda reusing enemies, by making a completely different argument. 3:17:20 - Jon Claims that Fallout 4 fully embraced a faction system. 3:20:12 - Jon makes the claim that most of the people who are involved in the main story are more interested in the Institute than Shaun. 3:26:18 - Jon Claims that much of NV's quests have no visible consequences. 3:29:31 - "You'll often find yourself feeling very relieved when you hear the sound of an approaching vertibird" 3:45:32 - Jon Claims that FO4 emphasizes it's story through gameplay rather than dialogue. 3:45:56 - Ludo Narrative Bull-shitery. 3:48:58 - Jon Praises the fact that a quest is written in a way that align with the faction in the game is about. 3:52:46 - Jon attempts to do the same thing with the railroad, while using the only example in the entire game. 3:55:44 - Jon unironically defends the radiant quests of the minutemen, 3:57:52 - Jon Claims that BOS's quests are mostly violent while forgetting that most of the quests of the other factions are also about killing. 4:00:25 - Jon continues to praise the game for doing something that is expected of it. 4:03:16 - Jon Praises the fact that radiation now does a direct subtraction of your health bar. 4:09:24 - Creetosis highlights a condescending tweet made by MATN after the video's release. 4:10:48 - Creetosis finally concludes the video.
@@roopereimi1718 And that's the thing. Despite the fact Obsidian having a time crunch and the gameplay being a little clunky (though it's an improvement from Fallout 3), it's still much better than 3 and even 4. The story, characters, atmosphere and the RPG elements are what makes New Vegas an amazing game despite its flaws. And it's still amazing without applying mods. Fallout 3 will always hold a place into my heart for being the game that introduced me to the franchise, but after playing 1, 2 and New Vegas, 3 and 4 just makes it look like a basic game compared those games.
True. You can tell when you’re invested in an open world game: you can’t actually listen to videos in the background while playing, because you’re trying to concentrate on the world. I always have a background sound of somewhat educational/critique/political type of videos while playing open world RPGs, but I never did it with games like the Witcher 3, because it’s too fucking great to just not admire every second.
That's exactly what I did. It was the first Fallout game that I installed coomer body mesh mods for. It was also the first Fallout game that I played for combat. It's a decent sandbox. And even then, its only decent because its supported by a community stemming from previous titles. It will become a GOOD Fallout game if FNV project succeeds lmao
I do wonder is it just me that roaming around Boston in F4 feels boring af???? I rather roam around Skyrim which is more enjoying because Skyrim is BEAUTIFUL af
Junk is a core aspect of Fallout 4. I can get behind that. There are many things in Fallout 4 I consider junk. Like the dialoge system. Or most of the quests.
@@kunatipsatsomnuk7672 no? you can literally go through the whole game without using junk on- nevermind you have to use it for a specific quest at the end of the game.
Theres not a problem with the junk items in FO4. and the power armor customization is a straight upgrade. I just dont think we should get a power armor handed to us so early. the only real issue with FO4 is the lacking RPG elements. which is an important issue dont get me wrong.
@@zeehero7280 it's factions and dialogue are quite lackluster, and the weaponry (although i love the modification, i wish they just expanded on it more), but the core gameplay is there.
"This mission shows the narrative genius of the writers. You see, Its a mission for a street racing gang. And what so quietly reinforces their core values, is that in this mission, they have you driving a car fast, On the street. Absolute storywriting bliss!"
I like 3 things about Fallout 4. Character customization is the best by Bethesda standards, weapon customization, and turning power armor into a vehicle that you pilot instead of just being an outfit that you wear. Everything else I don't care for.
I "kinda" get the cool factor of F4 power armor, but I have so many gameplay and lore issues with version I could go on a rant about how much I hate it.
@@legion999 With the fact they all use the same internal frame? Or the fusion cores or the T60 and early X01? (Interesting note, I was told that in F76 T60 is ONLY better than T52 at radiation protection, and slightly worse at physical and energy resistance, seeming to lean into the idea that it's actually just an upgrade kit for T45.)
Previous fallout games: T-51 is the pinnacle of pre-war power armor Fallout 4: T-60 goes clunk I'm not even mad about how X-01 suddenly becoming a top secret PRE-WAR power armor. We can believe it was in the early stages and the enclave, being pre-war america remnants, carried on the project. But the T-60??? It looks radically different from the T-51 and unironically similar to the T-45, so perhaps a T-47 or maybe a T-49. It just made 0 sense.
The only ones of these I slightly disagree with is weapon customization. The concept was great but the way it forced you to interact with the shitty scrap collecting system was insufferable. Half of my playtime was spent hauling garbage back to my base to be processed into armor\weapon upgrade parts. I'm aware that you could downgrade dropped weapons and strip the components but that was heavily RNG based and I never got the better upgrades from it.
If I loot a diner I don’t expect to find good loot 100% of the time, there are scavengers in the wasteland so a diner out in the open shouldn’t be full of untouched loot every time
@@whitefatalis2743 like, in underrail there is a junkyard that was ruled by two rivalling gangs and the only place for valuable loot is to enter the more deeper and dangerous part of said junkyard.
57:18 To be fair. The term "RPG" is so watered down by average consumer that almost everything is considered an rpg so long as it has leveling up system and skill trees. Heck on Steam, XCOM of all games has RPG Tag on it.
Yeah anything open world with a skill tree is basically an rpg. They took the r out of rpg and it feels a lot rarer now to find games that let you actually start as a blank slate to customize your character and backstory.
I don’t even know what an RPG is anymore. Fallout 1-NV seemed like RPGs but someone said “No not RPG” and I got confused and Final Fantasy gets called an RPG but I don’t knoe
I think AC Odyssey classifies as a true RPG to some degree because you can actually change the ending and fully embrace the R part of the term. Fallout 3 and 4 both have the problem where you can’t roleplay a pure asshole character because then you can’t do some missions, but Id still classify them as true RPGs. If I can change the ending, make the choices I want for my character’s personality, and modify at least something, then I’d view it as an RPG.
For me RPG is build char like only tank, mlee, sniper or Hybrid, this is what i get from playing CRPG game like PoE not just Roleplay only from dialogue, but if you can make char build can do anything like Skyrim i think term RPG just lose
@@Ultrue87 rpg is more than gameplay choices. While I have similar sentiment with you, i do wish that rpg is *MORE* than just gameplay differences. Being able to play from a goody to shoes samaritan to jack the ripper is something most rpgs dont do. Different builds only get u so far when the outcome is the same.
"Todd Howard's belief that you can get stale, by staying on one spot." Ahhh yess, that's why we have been re-releasing skyrim multiple times a year for the last 11 years. To avoid stagnation...
I mean everyone still playing Skyrim is doing so on such heavily modded setups that they discover things like Merdia is actually an invisible NPC in the sky with a unique Magelight effect because her boner is unaffected by these effects, resulting in you being taken to the great shlong in the sky to recieve divine consultation
I think the fact MATN thinks that the limited choices players have when it comes to weapons and armour in Fallouts 1 and 2, and that one of them will always be the best no matter what, is going to make playthroughs feel the same, really speaks to his mindset. The choices of weapons and armour are not the main focus of the games, it's the choices players make in resolving quests and choosing their path that matter. Also, saying that there is no reason not to use anything other than the best equipment is bullshit, it's an RPG! The reason for a player doing something can be as simple as 'because I wanted to'. For example, I have played a lot of Fallout 1 and 2 and one of my favorite equipment builds is a Leather Jacket and a Shotgun, why? because I think it's cool, I may struggle against some of the tougher enemies but I that's only if I choose to fight in the first place. There is more to an RPG than becoming an unstoppable killing machine and I'm not sure MATN gets that. Sorry, if you make any of these points in your video, I'm only about 1 1/2 hrs in atm. Enjoying it so far though mate, really excellent work.
Just got a little further into the video and MATN claims that in Fallout 4 you can use a weapon for as long a you like, not sure why this couldn't have applied to the previous games as well, and before someone mentions the upgrade system, that just means that using the weapon later in the game won't be as detrimental to your ability in combat. The ability to use whatever weapons you like whether or not they are the best is a choice the player gets in all the fallout games. The ability to upgrade your weapons to maintain their relative effectiveness against the enemies you are likely to face is just far more important in Fallout 4 due to it's over reliance on combat as a means to resolve conflicts. Fallout should be about how a player chooses to resolve conflict and the consequences of that choice, not what gun they use if they choose to fight. Furthermore, from a roleplaying perspective I find it far more interesting to, as a result of my choices, find myself in a combat encounter where I cannot win and have to either lose or run away and then dealing with the consequences of that, rather than trying to decide what sort of stock I put on my rifle.
@@sgt.oddball7556 Based on this video, I have to say it seems like MATN just doesn't like RPGs. He doesn't like that you can be very good at some things, that it's possible to create a build that appeals to you but is powerful, he doesn't like upgrading weapons by swapping them out with better ones because he likes how FO4 allows you to upgrade weapons by keeping them but modifying them... he just *really* doesn't seem to understand what an RPG is. It just seems like he wants to play, like Conan: Exiles or something. Which is cool, but an odd way to approach the FO:NW vs FO4 argument.
@@SimuLord Yeah, it sucks to see. Used to watch his videos years back. He's clearly intelligent which is what makes it obvious to me that he's being disingenuous in his arguments. It's insane how his fans just take what he says for fact even though almost all of his arguments can be objectively proven false with minimal thought. It made me lose respect for him.
I like how the game giving you a turret section against enemies that have been hostile to you the entire game, continue to be hostile during the mission, always fight to the death to the point of regularly using suicide bombers, that has only two individuals that you can interact with peacefully ( one of who is also a stupid, murderous psycho) is supposed to be some sort of awakening moment about how brutal and authoritarian the Brotherhood is. Maybe if Bethesda stopped painting super mutants as blood-crazed orcs, that mission would have given me pause.
Damn, if only Super Mutants weren't always evil bad guys and had a motivation and drive behind their actions. Oh well, I'm sure Bethesda would have used that if it was a thing.
I mean the moment the Brotherhood arrived in that stupid blimp I could instantly feel that I was not gonna be a fan of the change form their Fallout 3 change (cuz I actually LIKED that. It felt like a natural need for adaption to fit a more civilized world rather than the century+ years prior where it was mutated animal monstrosities, radiation-crazed psycho-raiders, etc. that the Brotherhood had to deal with. It's why I fully agree with Veronica in New Vegas and find it hilarious that the Brotherhood's yet to figure out why they lost at Helios-1.... They were fighting a trained, regimented and professional ARMY, not bands of drug-crazed Raiders or overgrown ants.
@@terminator572 Eh. it might be a bit too much, but it was at least a nice change from the prior ways especially since it's decades since fallout 2's timeframe.
Wait really, it's supposed to show you how authoritarian and brutal the BoS is? If that's the intended takeaway it utterly fails, I didn't get that at all, I thought it was just supposed to be some setpiece thing like the deathclaw fight considering all super mutants ever are in Beth games are generic enemies. Hell I don't think I would have cared even if it was human raiders I was shooting, might have been more impactful if you went into act all gestapo to some relatively peaceful ghoul community, but you don't, and I think that would be pretty hard to pull off well.
@@Beowulf-sn8ir I highly, highly doubt that Bethesda intended that quest to paint the brotherhood as zealous extremists. Maxson uses some very harsh language to describe the mutants, but it’s not like there’s a ton of pro-super mutant sentiment being pushed by the other factions. I know Bethesda’s writing in fallout 4 was horrendous, but it might be giving them too little credit to say that this mission was meant as a lesson about the brotherhood’s cruelty. Then again, they did write Kid in a Fridge, so who knows what the fuck they were thinking
Oh man, this was one of the few games I’ve ever preordered and was excited for and I couldn’t have been more disappointed. I never played any of Bethesda’s games on release and only ever got around to them after the fact so I got caught up in the pre release hype which really tarnished my view of Bethesda as developers and Todd in general with how well he sold that game.
@@UnknownName5050 i've seen many reviewers/personalities who were critical of starfield say "it's not bad, just bland" but in today's videogame market bland is bad, and it's really exposed a lot of absolute hacks on youtube which is the only GOOD thing i can say about starfield
2:16:44 He's wrong in even more ways about getting literally nothing when you level up. 1) In New Vegas you gain max hp every time you level, no matter what. 2) I'm pretty sure that every point in lockpick makes it harder for picks to break. Regardless of if you are at a threshold or not. I know for certain it works that way in other Beth games. So you are still getting better at picking locks. 3) Even if you can't get from 25 to 50 lockpick you are still closer to the threshold and can still use magazines or drugs to boost your skill temporarily. You can walk around at 35 lockpick and eat a mentats and a skill magazine to instantly boost your skill to 51 and get through that average lock. He knows this. He is just being dishonest.
It is definitely the case that every point of lockpicking increases the "sweet spot" size on a lock in FO3 and NV. Each point of hacking increases the chance you will get fewer words to pick from, thus making hacking a bit easier because there are obviously fewer "dud" words, but also it means there are more chances to get brackets & parenthesis to remove duds and trigger allowance refreshes.
"You don't get anything from leveling up!!!" is maybe the dumbest game related argument i've heard in, i don't know, years. For one. WRONG!!!! For two. Even if in completely hypothetical case that will never happen where you get a level up without an immidiate benefit, you're still closer to the next level, so wtf.
On the matter of lockpicking/hacking in New Vegas, MATN neglected to mention that there are ways of temporarily boosting those skills, such as certain attire and skill magazines. So while maybe an entire level up's worth of skill points might not be enough to increase lockpick skill from 25 to 50 or 75 or 100, it can increase it enough to where it can put you within reach of those tiers with the help of those other temporary skill boosts, so it is not correct when he says that you don't gain anything from that.
Is nobody going to mention increased odds of passing the force lock check? Or that you get more dud removal/attempt resets and less passwords overall? No? I'll see myself out then. And maybe to one of your MATN videos. He may joke about pitchforks but goddamn he manages to anger me with his stupidity.
@@dividewalker5673 honestly even as a massive fan of lock picking in these games I keep forgetting there was force lock, and I believe I’ve used it exactly once which was by accident, and The lock broke soft locking me a bit.
@@dividewalker5673 Yeah, that's a great point also. It's just that forcing the lock is generally a REALLY bad idea so you should never do that. Bobby Pins are plentiful and the mini game really isn't that hard, so there's no reason to try to force it and the consequence of breaking the lock and being denied entrance is too great to be lazy and skip the mini game. And yeah, there's the infiltrator perk which gives you a second chance on broken locks, but perks are so finite in this game... The only way I'd ever see forcing the locks being worth doing is if you're roleplaying your character that way. There's no logical practical reason for doing so.
@@VimyGlide Quickloading is cheating... if you want to play that way, fine. At that point you might as well be using console commands to give you infinite money, immortality, etc.
I actually despise how overused teddy bears are in FO4 as sight gags. like Bethesda is so uncreative in making funny things out of environmental storytelling that it feels like almost every location has a teddy bear with glasses, or a teddy bear reading a newspaper, or a teddy bear with a hat, or a teddy bear with a helmet, or a teddy bear with a cigar, or two teddy bears in a sex position, or two teddy bears in a different sex position, etc. It's honestly just annoying.
@@Evelyn-qt3hi I've never been clear why they even want the sight gags. They set up a world that has murderous raiders in it and they apparently spend all their free-time posing teddy bears awkwardly. Really undercuts the characterization of their easy enemy.
@@SahiPie Which has always been a bit tone deaf. The old game's humor was less quirky and more darkly absurdist. An odd adaption of people to a world cast in the shadows of humanity's cycle of failures. The conversations and notes between raiders in F4 (one of the very few things I'll compliment in any way) do a far better job of that than any of their superfluous sight gags. (Both bear and skeleton) The other type of humor the original games had was pop-cultural referencing and it was *widely* panned after Fallout 2's overabundance of it, and it often seems like Bethesda wants to unironically replicate it when Wild Wasteland showed that there's a vastly more acceptable way to handle it.
@@lol-cp2eg I feel you. I absolutely love zoning out to Diablo 3, but I understand that it's not all that great of a game and the criticism leveled at it is fair.
I loved the Leprechaun films, not the newer ones - the ones with Warwick Davis in the title role. He's clearly having SO MUCH FUN as this semi-serious horror villain.
Stygian Reign of the old ones is one of my favourite games of all time, yes it's still a disaster of a project that will never be finished. People really can't accept that they can like bad things. It's like they enjoy eating cheesecake so they try to prove with all their effort that cheesecake is healthy for you.
Every time I see a breakdown of fallout 4 I think “now hold on, it wasn’t *that* bad” and have to remind myself that I had like 50 mods installed before I’d even started playing and kept going from there.
I have played it with over a hundred mods and I still think it's pretty bad. I imagine that without mods I wouldn't be able to bear playing the game at all.
@James if you install one of the wasteland overhauls after it you'll get a similar effect, for example fo4 seasons autumn. but removing the snowy textures isn't that hard, you open frost - textures.ba2 with archive2.exe from creation kit, then search for landscape/ and delete everything it shows, then save.
@@kazuya246 Oh don't get me wrong, the plot is still cruddy and the bullet-sponge enemies fill me with righteous indignation, but with the right mods it feels really good to just wander around helping people with minor (in the grand scheme of things) problems and rebuilding infrastructure. If anyone knows a way to make the enemies not scale to the player's level, please tell me.
@@zelculothesquid8201 honestly the easiest way to deal with bullet spongy enemies is to play on survival. Like it’s not perfect 1 shot 1 kill, but it’s very close, and also is a really good experience on its own. Like MATN talks about it in his video, but survival mode is arguable one of the best if not the best survival game a AAA studio has made. Well worth playing, and maybe even a solid reason for getting FO4 in the first place.
And in spite of that, I look forward to choosing to do the NV tutorial on every play. The Oblivion and Fallout 3 tutorials, on the other hand? Loathe them. They suck, they're long, and they're unskippable.
@@logan_wolf the nv tutorial used to be my step 1 always. I wanted those free items. Max durability varmint rifle, after the ultimate edition came out you were pretty much set for the start of the game.
@@ralcogaming7674 Oh yeah, the NV tutorial was mildly interesting, too. More than could be said about the others. And that varmint rifle is beast, especially if you get lucky enough to find Chet with a scope in stock.
@@logan_wolf i check chet first if he's got it i sell off a few things and buy any mods for it. Then I'll get it if he doesn't i run instead and will grab ratslayer from the cave near nipton i believe. God i haven't done a fresh NV playthrough in awhile.
@@logan_wolf Fallout 3s tutorial teaches you how the dialogue works, that you dont have to use violence to solve everything, and teaches you how to defend yourself. How is it not good?
Hand placed "loot" is better for world building and fleshing out the specific area it's in. That's because those items aren't there just for you. They exist even without the player, they're part of that world. Randomized "loot" limits how much depth the world has and how much sense it makes materially. A world with a more static( as opposed to random) item placement will always be more fleshed out and in depth and memorable, than a world where loot is randomized to remind you that this is a game. Especially when that randomization reaches ridiculous levels with boss chests; which are the in-game equivalent of loot boxes. The "dungeons" in KotoR for example are much more memorable partly because of that. The entire dungeons are hand crafted and items are placed with more care. No randomized "boss chest" is memorable and their contents exist separately from the world around them, their contents are mostly dull and repetitive junk and no different than any other chest in the game. Like I said, loot boxes. Same thing goes with legendary enemies and weapons( or for that matter, random enchanted items in Skyrim).
I think the problem is that randomization is used as a solution for everything, when it should be a precision tool. Randomization on it's own isn't a bad thing, if it's used in a limited capacity, but applying it to nearly every aspect of the game, like the way it's done in Fo4 isn't good. The exception is roguelikes, of course, but that's an entirely different genre.
@@Creetosis Well not just roguelikes as I'd not call Forager a roguelike game and then again its randomizing element isn't loot so much as it is land and enemy aswell as resource spawning to a degree
I love digging through some long-forgotten vault or bunker, cracking that super difficult safe, and being rewarded with some crappy pipe gun or some jet or something else that shouldn't realistically be there.
Random stuff should be filling the gaps between handplaced truly unique things and be the viable option. Besides, it should be properly balanced else its some fucking shit moment that one guy said about in that thread about vault having minor junk.
I literally laughed out loud when he said that he hated the skill system cause he couldn't pickpocket people at megaton and didn't understand that INCREASING SNEAK HELPS YOU PICKPOCKETING
He does understand that he just thinks that's stupid. I do too I like how fallout 4 does it where there's a pickpocketing perk and a sneak perk. The two shouldn't correlate they should be their own separate thing.
@@arturfernandes101 My god you are so unbelievably cringe. Do you ever read these comments back and think about just how big of a redditor you sound? It's hilariously pathetic.
Yeah, I was like, a lot of people like Morrowind as much as Skyrim. Morrowind has skill / stat based accuracy like in Fallout 3. Skyrim has player skill-based accuracy and your stats solely deal with how much damage you do. The mechanics themselves don't matter as much as how well they are implemented.
People often conflate "Had fun" and "good", or just can't admit they enjoyed something objectively bad. I played fallout 4 for a good 140 hours and had a ton of fun with it, my favourite bit being repairing broken down power armors I found around the world and collecting them in a settlement/home. But it's a deeply flawed game barely held together by flashy combat and the fallout universe, and there's no way to deny that.
Ngl building Frankenstein suits out of the misc pieces of power armor was fun, but 4 got me into fallout when i was 13 and it has a place in my heart for that, but damn the game has some serious issues.
"People often conflate "Had fun" and "good"" Exactly. And they then follow that up with arguments like "fun is subjective, I had fun therefore the game is good, therefore good is subjective" and like... dude at that point we might as well just ditch quality as a word. Why review anything? Why consider quality at all? If it's all ~subjective~ and any game, no matter how awful, can be enjoyed by _someone_ then... then you thinking the game is _good_ ceases to matter too. If no media can be bad, then no media can be good either and there's no point to any discussion of anything. And that's so obviously bullshit that I'm not going to bother going any further.
@@Shenaldracthere's people who continue to think fallout 76 is actually good, because they get home very tired and play two hours with their friends who are also exhausted and think because their brain dead body produces minimal levels of serotonin, the game is good no matter how brain dead the activities are, to them it's stimulating because the rest of their time awake is daily repetitive tasks. I wouldn't care of these same people weren't the ones driving the industry and the intellectual property in a completely brain dead position.
exactly fallout 4 to me is an okay game i think the power armour makes far more sense than the older titles did i love the settlement building i agree things are lacking but its a game i play constantly because i find it fun and enjoyable
If you made a Fallout game with the integrity of the RPG-story focused driven from 1,2, and New Vegas but keep the crafting, the weapon combat, and textures of 4/76. It would be a good Fallout game.
I'd make it so that you have to put in the work in character build progression to have combat be as good as 4's. Weapons have corresponding skill requirements. The closer we meet them, the better our character uses that weapon. Also use Dying Light 2 style melee combat. That was pretty decent.
@@DJWeapon8I mean Dying Light 2s melee combat is both better and worse than the predecessors. Fighting human opponents feels drastically better but on the other hand the zombie combat feels generally worse.
@@paranoiaproductions1221 from what I've observed. Zombie combat in Dying Light 2 is the melee equivalent of damage-spongey looter shooter. The zombies just aren't dynamic and have unimmersive amounts of HP.
"Poor gunplay to reflect a lack of experience due to your time in the vault." The one single thing we know about what the vault dweller was doing in their spare time was PRACTISING SHOOTING, even shooting live animal moving targets, so yes, that clearly doesn't match up.
Even if it made sense for the player to be bad at using guns, that’s moronic. It’s like saying you shouldn’t be able to run for long or jump high because you lived in a vault and wouldn’t move around much
Well, to be fair... practicing with a BB gun doesnt really prep you for shooting pistols, automatic rifles, shotguns, ect. Thinking playing with your airsoft will make you good handling even a .22, much less something more complicated with a larger round is a little silly
@@fudgeslicer9264 the same except the dramatic difference in spread and accuracy of your shots, sure. Nor is your comment actually responding to a single word of my previous post... so kudos on your oneupsmanship comment I guess? Whatever floats your boat.
@@fudgeslicer9264 the same except the dramatic difference in spread and accuracy of your shots, sure. Nor is your comment actually responding to a single word of my previous post... so kudos on your oneupsmanship comment I guess? Whatever floats your boat.
I like how MATN cherrypicked his example of dumping points into Lockpicking and not being able to open average locks and he's still wrong. Going from 25 to 39 Lockpicking means you're now in range to open an average lock if you use a skill magazine and mentats for the temporary PER boost. It's almost like those items were put in the game for a reason.
Its worse than that. He neglected to mention that Fallout 4 Locksmith perks are arbitrarily level locked. In Fallout 4, master locks can only be picked after reaching level 18. In 3 in new vegas, you'd reach 100 Lockpick at level 9 with the lowest skill point reward every level up
@@DJWeapon8 And having that level locked with mobs becoming more bullet spongy as you level up. Ugh.. The difficulty implementation is so bad, so classic Bethesda. It was the same shit in Oblivion, just no reason to level up except expect more spongey enemies.
57:00 the point he is trying to make really stings me since you aren't playing as a scavenger, your playing as popsicle husband or wife. They never had to scavenge anything before but suddenly become survival experts. Would you know how to build a working generator from scrap metal and junk like our ever precious desk fan?
Game: you need 50 points in this skill to do this thing Player: *levels the skill at 39 points* Game: *doesn't allow you to do this thing* Player: HOW DARE YOU, YOU BROKEN PIECE OF TRASH! BUT I LEVELLED UP!
But it's actually impossible to go from 25 to 50 Lockpicking (or whatever) in a single level. So that means you can have a dead level up, except for HP. I don't think that's a HUGE problem, but he's not wrong that dead levels are quite boring.
@@Sines314if your intelligence is high you have around 12 skill points, if you tag a skill it will have double points, most tagged skills start over 18, you can assign 24 to add up to 42, with a single magazine you reach 52. If you put everything you can reach certain thresholds in a single level as long as the skill is tagged. And you can tag up to 4 with a perk, effectively you can have 96 points in 4 level ups.
The funniest part about his lock picking example was that fallout nv addressed this problem with the lockpick skill magazines for temporary boosts to your skill
He also omits that Fallout 4 is actually much more limiting than 3 or New Vegas when it comes to Lockpicking and the Perks system in general. In 4, perks have level requirements and since abilities that used to be handled by Skills are now turned into perks, lockpicking is also locked behind levels. To get Locksmith 3 to pick Master safes you need to be at least LEVEL 18. Meanwhile in 3 and New Vegas. At the lowest Lockpicking level (15) and the slowest method (10 points per level up) you can reach Lockpicking 100 after 9 level ups at LEVEL 10. 8 levels earlier than Fallout 4. There's also the fact that both 3 and New Vegas have items and equipment that will temporarily boost your Lockpicking level. With New Vegas having the highest boosts with Skill Magazines and Comprehension.
@@DJWeapon8 Don't forget Mentats. For his example of getting to Lockpick 39, Mentats are actually enough to get you to 50. But drugs are specialization, not buffs, so this doesn't count.
That's the funniest part to me, he talks a big game about how important looting is, but doesn't even think about using the loot you gained. I can't go from 25 to 50 lockpicking in a single level up, but i could go from 25 to 35 and get to 50 with items and equipment.
I think it's interesting that many a true nerd mentions how you shouldn't be able to perfectly wield a gun right outside the vault 101 but not a former soldier who's been stuck in ice for 200 years cobbling together screws and glue to make a full auto compensating pistol
You know. When you put it like that it would have been interesting if nate started more combat focused and Nora more speech focused because of their backrounds (Both of which you could ignore of course. just would be starting stats)
the "im roleplaying as a scavenger" argument is beyond dumb, because its going to work the same way every playthrough. If you are playing the same character/role every run, it is not an RPG but a scavenging simulator
@@noobikus5475 not to mention you play that role every single time you play, but now thanks to you, the bob the builder theme will play in my head everytime im slapping down some turrets if i play fo4 again
@@JACKELincorporated you're welcomed XD. The Problem is you can built this turrets like that. It would have been better if ( Example): you could steal a turret by hacking it deactivet it and take it with you. It would be much more work and give it value because it's hard to get one. But for the effort it's a good defense against Enemies. That's exactlly what makes fallout 4 so awful, Nothing hard and creative to do.
Apparently obsidian was originally gonna have a function that would let you continue playing new vegas after taking hoover dam and you would be able to see the consequences and fruits of your choices. for example, if you sided with yes man, after taking hoover dam, freeside becomes a warzone etc
There's a mod that does that, taking the incomplete dialog and left over content plus what the main writer left to the community regarding postgame. It's one of the best mods out there that is just more game
"If you want to run a town, you need high Charisma" - So what about crafting a campfire? The game force me to be level 14 and a Charisma of 6 to do that. Why am I force to be a town leader in order to be able to craft a campfire? Why must a rough anti-social hunter that lives in the wild be Charismiatic?
MATN gripe about Skill Points was also misinformed on the grounds that the games have Stat boosting apparel and drugs/consumables to nudge you to the limit as well. They even have magazines to permanently boost skill levels too, then his avoidance of FONV and its temporary boosting magazines (which is fair because it was about his FO3 experince). Everyone has put on a article of clothing, drank liquor/popped drugs/ate food and wear a hat to try and meet a skill check because they lacked the points and needed that push.
And sometimes it wasn't even a mistake to not have the correct amount of points. By investing just enough so that the temp boosts can achieve your goal, you're able to distribute more points elsewhere for other aspects of your build. You only need 55 and the Comprehension perk + a skill magazine to get you to 75, so you can invest those other points someplace else they can be useful.
The more I think about it the more I feel like Fallout 4 may have secretly had a troubled development cycle. You can tell that entire towns were planned out before being scrapped and replaced with Settlements. There's a ton of areas that feel like they should be interactable but are actually just full of raiders\monsters. There's also a bunch of needless detail under the oceans that implies they were supposed to be explorable at some point. The major factions feel like they were all written and designed in a vacuum and then frankensteined together into the blatantly self contradictory plot that we got at the last minute. Either bethesda just stopped caring after Skyrim (which is a distinct possibility) or there's something deeply wrong with their current project structure. I'm fully convinced at this point that ES6 is going to be an absolute dumpster fire.
For me Bunker Hill is also another kinda-smoking gun. It's one quest where all of the major factions are involved at the same time, and thus can see where the PC's allegiances lie. It feels as if that's the point of the game where you would have to pick which one you want to support and prove your loyalty by helping them win the battle. And yet, that's not it. After you win Bunker Hill for any faction, you still get to double cross whomever and keep doing quests for any faction until you are basically tasked with wiping out another faction. It feels like such a copout that I can't help thinking that they originally intended Bunker Hill to be the end of Act Two of the game (finding/contacting the Institute) but then they created a handful of faction quests they couldn't stick in Act Two, so they put all of them after Bunker Hill and pushed the point of no return for the factions back so that players wouldn't "miss out" on too much content.
@@Delete240 Skyrim wasn't absolutely overflowing with plotholes. Nor did it mass murder my braincells every single time any character opened their mouth like in F4. Not saying Skyrim writing is great, but it did the bare minimum it needed to do.
@@SpadeDracoI have no idea anyone can finish Bethesda made main story. I have tried many times but I had fun doing side quests and exploration in their games. The setup always sucked and I have never got invested in the story. Morrowind had so much side content and design was so eerie I got lost in exploration. Oblivion? You sit in a cell and king walks by freeing you. I jolted out never to do any main quest because why would I? F3, first hour is just an irrelevant slog. And after all went to shit, why would I want to go after father? Is he even alive? Will mutants eat me? How will I survive? And finally F4, slog again but feels shorter and setup makes sense but how story is unfolding is like it was written by half disabled chatgpt's cousin. How protag does not even take into consideration how long he was in stasis is not just beyond me, it's just fucking beyond any creature capable of understanding object permanence.
I was actually astonished by his comparison to ttrpg's. Literally a few minutes before, I was thinking "Clearly, this guy doesn't want an RPG, he just wants a shooter since the element of randomness that stats and skills have are a fundamental part of RPG's on a purely gameplay mechanic." And there he goes talking about how fallout 1 was built around GURPS, which proves to me that he understands what an RPG is, and that he isn't looking for one.
To be fair - you can't just put ttrpg mechanics on top of action game. I wish 3d fallouts used Escape from Tarkov ideas ( skills affect recoil control and reload speed rather than damage ). This was especially bad in New Vegas btw 😅
You absolutely can put ttrp mechanics on top of an action game, in many it would be the correct way of doing it (Werewolf, Exalted, 5e) because those games are not very social. But you can't put ANY ruleset on an action game.
I can't even think of anything Bethesda got right in Fallout 4 other than the gunplay (which they got id software to do for them), and the world itself being a lot more believable (food, water, and electricity sources being thought of for most/all the settlements).
I liked the improvements to creature ai and animations. A couple of the companions- ex. Nick, Curie, Hancock- were pretty neat base concepts, though I wish they had better development. I liked exploring, though I wish there was better environmental storytelling to find.
The fact that the world feels alive? You will finds things happening when you explore it, random and scripted events. And i will say it, Fallout New Vegas world was barely living in comparison to Fallout 4 or even Fallout 3.
Its a win-loss situation with me. Gunplay and animations improved, but it breaks immersion more when your character can wield every single weapon proficiently but deal low damage when you're not spec'd into them. Better and more realistic layouts of settlements due to the settlement system, but barely any memorable civilized locations in terms of named NPCs and stories.
Something that I can say I dont like about the new perk system is how it often forces you to take "dead perks". He doesnt mention that crafting requires perks. Charisma 6 and Local Leader 2 for crafting stations (hate this the most) Science! for energy weapons and settlements Gun Nut for guns Armorer for armor mods At least in NV crafting was based on skill level with some perks adding specific recipes.
I'd be curious to really look at how many of the perks are necessary tax to make a basically functional character. Before you get to the actual abilities that are cool, just the "take these or your character cannot play the game" perks. At least one, probably both of lockpicking and hacking, at least one of the damage boost perks, probably at least 2 or 3 of the crafting/settlement perks. I'm already at like, roughly ten levels of perks that are taken off the top of a character as tax. Also, don't forget, that the... ice gun in the vault is specifically there to motivate players to get those unlocking perks, so the perk tax is deliberately intended that you should be taking them.
Late to this comment but if you start the Automaton DLC with low intelligence and at a later level, the points you have to spend just to be able to build a decent robot are abysmal. That’s why there’s a mod on nexus that removes all requirements. The DLC advertised being able to customize your very own robot, but failed to mention how many levels and how much time you’d have to waste just to get the perks required.
I just want to say I hate the charisma 1 speech 100 argument because it's not that hard to imagine someone who can say something that makes perfect sense but you can't stand being around.
Agreed. Being charismatic and presenting a convincing argument are two different things. Being charismatic just makes it easier for people to believe you.
I think his point was that you can access every opportunity and challenge associated with dialog while having the minimum value for the stat that's supposed to affect dialog. It's still a dumb argument because pretty much every stat works like that. INT 1 Science 100, AGI 1 Sneak 100, PER 1 Guns 100, all of these are perfectly possible in NV. All Fallout 4 does is require you to have enough points in the stat to access the associated perks. So INT 3 Hacking 5, AGI 3 Sneak 5, PER 2 Rifleman 5 (or whatever stat you need to get those perks). Which is basically what NV did. Sure, you can get super high skill with guns while having Perception 1, but you'll want a 5 or 6 to access later perks that make guns really effective. And the perks that make sneaking around easier and more effective have a moderate Agility requirement as well. There just weren't many dialog perks that mattered, so you didn't need Charisma.
@@tannereldred7039 gravity exists moron, not a nice statement but it's a true one and no one can argue that...well they can try. Being nice has nothing to do with being right but people are more likely to accept an uncomfortable truth if its said nicely.
I think it's a valid argument because Speech is tied to the Charisma stat, something you think would be important in using the skill since it's under the Charisma banner of skills. The fact you can just dump it entirely means that Charisma might as well not even exist. I do like your answer though since it is a good way to roleplay it.
I love how in new Vegas there is nothing stopping you from killing many characters such as Caesar and Mr House. One of the most fun moments I had was when I used a bunch of stealth boys to enter the fort and try to kill the entire legion while being a rich, low level, gambling addict, stupid, courier
@Nunya Business nv isnt even old school. It is still an fps. i think people got angry because the games mechanics aged pretty well but bethesda still got rid of them in favor of a water down version that no one asked for. fans of fo3 didnt have a problem with skills either so why did bethesda change it?
@Nunya Business and yeah the industry is changing but old concepts can still work. just look at all the crpgs that started coming out after 2014. its niche and based on an old style but a lot of people are playing them now
MATN goes to great lengths in his second video to condemn this issue as something that was a mistake on the side of the developers of Fallout 4. He separated the videos into two camps, he started with the positives in the video being addressed here and the negative in his part 2. I personally enjoyed both videos but I’m not a game critic or anyone effected by this sort of thing. If you feel Jon’s part one video praises the game to much, the part two will likely be more your speed. Hope you do enjoy 😊
Obsidian literally gave Bethesda a handbook of how to make a widely beloved fallout game with New Vegas and Bethesda took it, tore out the pages, and used it for toilet paper (ironically what Pagliarulo would complain about players doing, the garbage hypocrite). I sincerely hope that they learned their lessons for Elder Scrolls VI, because I dearly want TES to have RPG mechanics again, especially if we're going to Daggerfall and Hammerfell, which are just two RIPE settings for roleplay and intrigue. But Im not holding my breath, and I hate to see one of my alltime favourite settings so dumbed down of its RPG mechanics.
I would like those things as well, but I'm actually expecting a completely classless system with the four skills "Hurty, bonk stick", "Bendy stick with sharp, flying stick", "Magic" and "Stuff making". On a more serious note, I expect the new TES game to be like a Skyrim mod with loads of bad and contradictory lore imported from TESO. There might not even be any differences between the races any more, since that could potentially stop you from getting the "full experience" in a single playthrough. I could also see the choice between red, green and blue on level up being seen as too permanent, and for those attributes to be baked into equipment. If there's a voiced protagonist, and considering the number of race-gender combos, you might not even get the "Sarcastic yes" reply available in dialogue.
2:01:01 I like how he arguing that speed running is bad as if having the CHOICE and freedom to do that is a bad thing , he is actively arguing for Bethesda to strip down the game
If you’re siding with the factions purely for the rewards the minutemen are the worst, ballistic weave is infinitely more useful than the castle or artillery.
@@gollumbeutlin5646 except even that’s not really the case, after you’ve nabbed Deliverer and Ballistic Weave, you can just bail on the faction entirely or even massacre them and go join one of the other factions.
@@Slender_Man_186seriously, you get both so ridiculously early in the Railroad quest line you can get their best rewards and then destroy them right after if you want
I'm 5 minutes in, the entire opening in Goodsprings requires a half dozen skill checks to assemble your army to fight the Powder Gangers. How did they miss that?
@@legion999 I enjoyed building, but even that has disappointments. Like how no one will “attack” your base outside of story missions, and instead maybe a raider or two will spawn in the middle to be immediately destroyed.
a game has many different components: story, gameplay, level design to mention just a few. while new vegas does have a better story than 4, the world itself is pretty dull and most of the dungeons are either uninteresting copy pasted caves or tiny buildings with a few enemies in them meanwhile the dungeons and world map in 4 are objectively better. they make use of verticality, they have a larger variety and more complex designs. not to mention that fallout 4 has better environmental story telling as many locations have notes, holotapes, computer entries and skeletons which make the world feel lived in.
@@666FallenShadow I think one problem I have with the world in fallout 4 is that Bethesda makes everything look like the bombs went off yesterday. Even areas people are actively living in still have skeletons and trash Everywhere, while new Vegas is more “post-post apocalypse” where you’re more likely to find what remains of more recent events, unless you go into areas like vaults where people rarely go into anymore.
It doesn't help that during the interview he referenced, it couldn't have been more vague. I mean they don't give specifics out often. I believe we all knew that they were narrowing the dialogue down to a four-choice wheel, and pitched it like Mass Effect. Well, a lot of people like mass effect and while we're concerned about how you'll handle a previously robust roleplaying system with only four button presses available at a time, we're willing to give it a shot. And then we actually SAW the dialogue system. Four vague choices that didn't represent at all what you were going to say, and at times covered up what was essentially just "press button to continue scene", without any real impactful choice. Playing with that one mod that actually shows the dialogue, and you're in the diner and one choice is different while the other three are "Wait, what?" couldn't have laid bare any clearer the illusion of choice at work in the background, and just how shoddy it was. It isn't about doing this different, it's about doing it well, and there's a prime example of it not being well-done, and that certain choice made to be "different" didn't add anything, and in fact took something away.
@@floridferret4585 I wish we'd just do away with the voiced protagonist in games like this, it adds nothing and usually serves to take something away from the player. We don't lose anything by having more options and the studio not having to pay for more voiced lines.
@@Gakusangi I agree. If the game isn't having the player step into the shoes of a specific character then doing voice lines for the PC is just extra cost and effort for a loss.
@@floridferret4585 And in a game like this, it's well established that we are our OWN character, not someone else's. It's been that way since Fallout 1, in the main title series. We've never had to play anyone but who we wanted to be.
"Kid in a fridge" is probably my least favorite quest in the series, just on the basis of how much it showcases how little of a fuck the writers at Bethesda give. It's like some intern went "wouldn't this be a wacky and wholesome idea?" and the writers were like "yeah sure whatever I guess a child who has been in a dark, cramped space, alone and immobile with nothing to eat or drink for 200 years is going to be running and slinging wisecracks in a matter of seconds after being found and definitely would not be a grimdark example of an utterly mad individual stuck in a child's body whose bones and joints have practically withered down to nothing and whose body has melded in with this hundreds-year-old plastic due to immobility."
@@sithisdawnsend2730 Yeah. This is Fallout. The game series that includes Fallout 2, a title in which a female player character _can be sexually assaulted_ Edit: Or how about Fallout 1, a title where the intro sequence includes a shot of the American government executing a Canadian national in the street. Or how about every vault in the series, save 17 control vaults, where brutal experiments are done on unwitting citizens? Fallout's America is a dystopian hellscape and you're silly for thinking otherwise.
Yeah that was truly immersion breaking, they went a step too far with that one. Honestly most of the dumb story stuff in Fallout 3 I didn't really notice until looking back. But that Fridge moment in 4 was I think the point where most people tabbed out to google because they were so confused. I thought there had to be some secret explanation to that Quest that I was missing, or my game was bugged.
I know it's a bit late but you were slightly wrong about skill checks. There are exactly three in the entire game, all in the quest "Last Voyage of the U.S.S. Constitution". If you have nine intelligence, you can jurt rig the ship to skip three of five looting objectives in the quest. That's literally it though. One quest.
@@Creetosis Ah, I meant Special. If anything it's more insulting to only have those than to have none. Because then it isn't "We chose to remove it for gameplay reasons", it's "We couldn't be arsed."
His whole video could be summed up as "I don't actually understand how RPGs work but this game is a great RPG. Let me tell you why I'm smarter than you."
I was hyped for fallout 4 because I thought I was getting a follow up to new vegas. However F4 wasn't a sequel to new vegas or even a sequel to 3. It was a sequel to skyrim with a mass effect dialogue wheel and base building added.
I thought I was getting a sequel to Skyrim and Fallout 3, which I was happy with. But it just seemed so average even by those standards. I loved Fallout 3 and Skyrim, Fallout 4 was so meh.
@@AVerySillySausage Just then you thought all the most important aspects of the game couldn’t get dumbed down more, they did. And things that were minor problems at most in fallout 3 got expanded upon for some reason.
@@WalterTheWalrus i mainly just called it a mass effect dialogue wheel to imply how clear it was that ripping off ME was the whole idea behind fo4's (nice response, mean response, neutral response, ask question) dialogue system. You're right in the fact the ME does it better and isn't hard locked to 4 responses every time.
"If lengthy discussion on a topic is something that scares you..." If that 4:00:00 didn't tip them off already, I don't know what would. "Gunplay is shit" Whenever there's an issue with something in a piece of media, there's the in-unvierse reason and the meta reason. In pretty much every situation, the meta reason is the actual reason as to why something is the way it is, and people come up with an in universe one after the fact. In this case, the meta reason is that Bethesda has been working on games that involve swordplay for so long and now they're working on a game where the combat is centered around gunplay. It's unfamiliar territory for both them and their game engine so of course they're going to stumble pretty hard. Now considering the in-universe reason, I can't quite buy it. Your character was given a gun on his 10th birthday. Why would he be unfamiliar with firearms? One of the possible outcomes for your character in the game's lore is to become a security officer in the vault, someone who would need to know how to properly use a gun. I understand it's possible that none of these become the case and your character might have not fires a single shot since his 10th birthday, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a possibility. And a big problem is that your character simply does not know how to hold a gun properly. What's the in-universe explanation for that? Everyone in the vault doesn't know how to handle a fire arm? I can understand that upping your skill points making you more accurate, but why is a character able to be at level 100 guns and still not understand what an iron sight it? The only explanation is that Bethesda fucked up. They weren't up to par with implementing shooting mechanics. That doesn't have to mean the game is bad or that you can't like it for what it is, but coming up with a post hoc rationalization is desperate. Like one of my criticisms of New Vegas that Fallout 4 (somewhat) solved was that an explosives character wasn't very viable. Explosives are pretty rare and tend to take a long time to utilize and switch between weapons so you're going to quickly find yourself defenseless and likely will get shot up after you use the two grenades in your inventory. Does this mean that the Courier is just heavy armed when it comes to switching weapons or there's some big lore reason as to why explosives are scarce in the Mojave? I'd say no. I'd say it's that Obsidian just didn't balance things for that build as well as they did for other builds. I don't have to make an excuse for that in order to justify saying New Vegas is still a great game, and MATN shouldn't have to make poor excuses for the gunplay. "Junk and crafting" By removing skill points, Fallout 4 has basically ruined this whole point for me. In order to get higher level crafting things, you need to level up and invest a point into a perk, but since all previous skills have been relegated to perks, I'm going to prioritize things that were once skills such as medicine or lockpicking over anything crafting related. So until I could actually use that fan to get materials that would allow me to make something worthwhile, the fan in Fallout 4 is functionally identical to the fans in Fallout 3 and New Vegas: They do not have a function. But the fact is that Fallout at its core is supposed to be an RPG, and anything you add onto that, even if it's something you want the playerbase to focus more on, is not going to grab everyone's attention. I personally never enjoyed the base building mechanics in Fallout 4 and did them as little as possible. Maybe some things would have a good weight-value ratio, but that just brings everything back to how they were in the previous Fallouts. So one half of crafting, the entire point of junk items, is locked behind a system that doesn't incentivize breaking away from certain builds and another half is a genuine gamble as to if people will like the mechanic in the first place. I'd honestly rather go into a building and see some (non immediately hostile) NPCs I can interact with since that's what I play Fallout for in the first place. "Energy weapons" MATN praises Fallout 4 for doing something previous Fallout games have done: allowing you to invest in energy weapons early. In New Vegas, you can have that as your tag skill or answer Doc Mitchell's questions in a way that will leave you with more skill points in energy weapons than any other means of attack. As a consequence, Doc Mitchell will hand you a laser pistol and some ammo. Granted, there's then a limiting factor based on how much ammo you have, as microfusion cells become more common later in the game, but I don't recall Fallout 4 being any different. Hell, Fallout 4 starts out your character with a baton and a 10mm pistol, neither of which are energy weapons. You normally don't get your first energy weapon until you arrive at Concord outside the museum of freedom in which case you get the laser musket... a gimmicky piece of shit that's more likely to turn players off from energy weapons than anything. So he can say that Fallout 4 did energy weapons better than Fallout 1, but like many things, it's done something that New Vegas has already done but worse. ----- Alright, now just for the record, if you have any stockpiles of explosives and are ready to blow up an orphanage in blind, abject rage fueled by blasphemous words that would cause the ears of sane men to bleed as if they were narrated from the very pages of the Necronomicon itself, now's the time because.... I like this thing in a video game that people have criticized. ---- "Perks/traits/skills" I'm of the opinion that it's more fun to be overpowered than underpowered in events where a balance can't be met. The problem with Fallout 4's system is that there's some things that were skills that people tend to use since it either makes the gameplay easier in some ways (such as medicine or speech) or allowed them more access to places (such as science and lockpicking) and for things that affect the gameplay in much more different ways, there were perks. By making only perks, and making it so that what was once skills are now perks, it severely limits what you can do. Even worse, the perks are level capped. In the previous games, if someone wanted to be a master hacker, then can rush their science skill, but have to face the consequences of having every other skill remain pretty much the same. If they ever come across a lockpick or speech check that's too high for their count, it's touch luck but they might be able to hack a terminal they otherwise wouldn't. With Fallout 4's system, you can't rush any attribute and thus cannot specialize your character. MATN praises Fallout 4 for being set up in a way where you're guaranteed something every level, but if there's a goal you have in mind, like unlocking anything, you're worse off than in New Vegas because you have to wait until Bethesda says you're high enough of a level to access something. Like take that cryogun at the beginning of the game. That's behind a lock that you cannot access until you've leveled up over a dozen times (I do not know the exact amount). In New Vegas or 3, it might take five or six levels and boom, it's yours. You couldn't convince the politest man in the universe to do you a favor or hit the broad side of a barn but you can unlock that thing and get your reward because that's how you built your character. And the problem applies all over. Crafting? Speech? Pickpocketing? Anything? Sorry, you didn't kill enough radroaches and complete enough radiant quests. Come back when you've leveled up 8 times. The funny thing is, for Skyrim, Bethesda implemented a system of passive leveling up of skills. If you sneak around a bunch, you'll become better at sneaking. If you use two handed weapons a bunch, you'll become better at that. While there are some flaws, that would have been a much better system than having everything be relegated to perks because as it stands, it's First playthrough: I'm getting fucked in the ass by radroaches. I should use one of my levels to up my medicine skill. Second playthrough: I'm getting fucked in the ass by radroaches. I should use one of my levels to up my medicine skill. Third playthrough: I'm getting fucked in the ass by radroaches. I should use one of my levels to up my medicine skill. And so on. So rather than having a ton of unique and interesting perks that could alter how one goes about through the game, a bunch of the perk slots are being taken up by things that used to be separate. Less choice. Less freedom. Less fun.
-- Concerning your wheel analogy, a more direct comparison would be that the wheel was invented thousands of years ago. Since then we have improved upon it with things like better materials or structural additions like spokes that lessen the weight of the wheel but maintains its structural integrity. Fallout 4's system is basically ditching the wheel all together and just pushing the cart on the floor. They didn't improve upon things. They didn't experiment with and tinker with the skills. They didn't try to find a way to make it more in-line with the universe. It's not like there's any improvement in that regard in Fallout 4. It's still "Hey you reached a level and put a point in a thing so now you're ever bettererest at it!" The only difference is that it's less fun because of all the waiting you have to do. Like it cannot be overstated how shitty Fallout 4's progression system is, and it's something MATN felt the need to defend. "Game master is a dumb machine that's easy to exploit" Is this really that big of a problem? More likely than not, you're going to learn how to minmax after at least one play through of the game. If it's still possible to play as a well rounded balanced character, then what's the problem if someone wants to be a bit overpowered for their own cheeky playthrough? Even if absolutely everyone runs Int 10 Chr 1 Speech 100, that's not in any way going to affect any of MATN's playthroughs. Every single other person for every single one of their playthroughs could be the ultimate shitter, and that will never be able to seep into his game and ruin his fun. So the question is: How does Fallout solve the problem of "You can become a master locksmith because you dump your skill points into it even though you haven't picked a lock in your life"? Because "You can become a master locksmith because you dump a point in the lockpicking perk once a blue moon even though you haven't picked a lock in your life" is not it. In fact, as stated before, it's the same supposed problem that New Vegas and 3 has but far less fun. This is supposed to be a video of "Fallout 4 is better than you think" but this whole section is just "Fallout 3/NV is worse than you think." "Fallout 4 is the best at giving you the ability to play as a unique character in the early game" Fallout 3: Hey, I wanna be a sneaky theif. I'm going to dump all my skill points in sneak and lockpicking and by level 10, I'll be able to break into just about anything. Fallout new Vegas: Hey, I wanna be Clint Eastwood. I'm gonna dump all my points into guns and by level 10, I'll be the most rootist shootist bastard in the west. Fallout 4: Hey I wanna be the master hacker. I'm gonna dump all my level perks into science.... wait. I can't. I have to wait until I'm at like level 12 before I can upgrade that again. Alright, maybe a scientist....who works with animals. Straight up Steve Irwin or Charles Darwin or some shit, so I'm gonna dump all my perk points into the one that affects animals and.... wait, that one is level locked beyond the first point too. Alright, maybe I'll focus on the settlement building so I'll dump all my level perks into the one that lets me set up good shops in my settlement and.... well shit, I can't advance that beyond a single level either. This fucking sucks. I can't specialize at anything early on! "Clothes also help with specialization" In New Vegas, certain outfits and consumables tied into skill points. "If you watch a speedrun" What universe does he come from where speedrunners are an accurate representation of the general player base? These fuckers are flying around the Mojave like air planes because one of them stumbled on a glitch that lets them do that and now the entire route has been changed. "Contradictory demands of shooter and RPG fans" There's 0 contradiction. I'd like an RPG that allows for lots of player choice in how I go about in the world and what factions I help and what the outcomes of my actions are... and for the times I choose to handle things combatively, I don't want the gameplay to be complete ass. --- "All we're going to see are super mutants, death claws, raiders, and the brotherhood of steel" And radscorpions which continues to not make sense when they show up on the East Coast. -- I don't see why he can't just say "Fallout 4 handles integrating factions into the world better than New Vegas in the sense that you can find them operating in the game's map without you being directly involved." And then he could go on to give a more in depth explanation. The statement itself isn't even that controversial since it's not discussing the quality of writing of the factions or even the quality of the factions themselves, just that you can find some members running around.... well, you can find the Brotherhood of Steel running around. But if I were to guess, I assume this is more of a way to prevent criticism. He's out there saying controversial things and he's gonna get attacked for it! You don't wanna be one of the evil hoards sharpening their pitchforks and attacking him, right? Well then maybe you should keep that disagreement to yourself because he's no doubt getting turbo attacked by all the nasty fan boys who simply cannot stand that he has a differing opinion. "I know this is going to be controversial, but hear me out: my opinion." "Now I'm going to go against the grain/consensus here, but I think I have a good reason for it: my opinion." "Now it's the general view that X, but I don't think it's as clear cut as everyone has made it out to be." All of those accomplishes the same thing, acknowledgement that what he's about to say is going to be contentious, but gives the people he's arguing against the benefit of the doubt that they might be persuaded to think more like him after he lays down an argument. He wouldn't immediately be associating them with die hard closed minded angry mobs who'd burn him at the stake for heresy. And while on the subject, for his fans, if someone has made a video called "Fallout 4 is better THAN YOU THINK", it is not just his opinion. He is engaging in the viewer's views and trying to persuade them to change their mind, even if just a little. He's citing facts about the game and forming arguments as to why they're a good thing. If this is just his opinion, why not call it "Why I like Fallout 4"? Why bring what "YOU THINK" into it at all? -- "The Minutement don't want you to do anything. They want you to talk to the settlements and ask what they need." So not only is that specifically the minutement asking you to do something, but the quests always end up being "Hey we're getting our cheeks clapped by these ghouls/raiders/supermutants/roadroaches and need you to kill them. Outside of the fact that the Brotherhood of Steel are technologically superior, how are these quests any different from "Show no mercy"? Like it could have been more political quests. Handle disputes between different settlements, some that might specialize in essential resources. When you build the settlements up more, more people start to join the minute men and you see them actually patrolling around killing super mutants and stuff. Maybe things in general start to cost less at that point since the commonwealth is safer in general and trade is much easier. Unfortunately no. If he really wants "Ludo narrative harmony", how about the game tone down the amount of enemies that appear around every single corner. Why the fuck would anyone settle anywhere in the Commonwealth when they take one step and there's a super mutant running at you with a mininuke he somehow found, and then you go around the corner and there's a bunch of ghouls rising from a grave site (Bethesda just realized they're sort of like zombies and went all in I guess) and when you run down a block, there's a raider encampment and when you turn around another corner, a mirelurk is ready to snap you in two. How is anything actually supposed to get done in this world when it's so damn hostile? New Vegas has the road past quarry junction as the main path people took, and it was only a recent development according to some NPCs that deathclaws settled in the place. The other roads are a bit more dangerous but the danger tends to be spread out so there's still enough plausible deniability that someone who's at least sort of well armed would be able to get through. Then you have places like Bunker Hill where rather than settle in literally any of the buildings surrounding the obelisk, they all decide to erect a wall around the monument and live in open shanty shacks. Don't go in any of the buildings with mostly in-tact windows and walls and ceilings that would shield you from the elements, just sleep on some driftwood. Like they would actually be saving themselves on supplies if instead of building a wall completely surrounding them, they decided to wall off the streets and use the still standing buildings as part of the barrier. For all the small things he notices that provides this "Ludo-narrative harmony", there's dozens of major examples like this that are the case because Bethesda built the game around combat. You have this whole city area, what can you do? Well outside of diamond city you can shoot some raiders, shoot some mirelurks, shoot some super mutants, shoot some ghouls, shoot some super mutant dogs...is that really the best they could come up with? Anyways, this was a good video. You've made a lot of good points and caught mistakes that I didn't in my own response.
Thank you! I haven't heard enough people criticize F4's level system and how it forces generalization. Another thing I noticed is that it basically locks in your character decisions between level 12 and 50. You pick a perk because you want the effect and that means you probably want the next level to improve the effect. And since almost every perk rank opens at different levels, you have to choose between buying an entirely new perk or getting the next rank. As a result, you basically have your entire build planned out by level 12 because every level up until 50 is earmarked for a newly unlocked rank.
I disagree with the point on gunplay. Bethesda also works on FPSs like DOOM and wolfenstein. The major issue isn’t that they know swords more than guns, but that most RPGs have much more to focus on than combat. Iirc, F4’s combat was helped designed by the same one who made DOOM which is one of the reasons its gunplay is actually playable. That in turn took resources away from RPG elements.
I literally have a mod that lets me start at a predetermined level, I choose like 30 and slap all the perks into crafting, hacking and lockpicking. That way, I can bypass the frustrating level-locking, and get to the best part of the game: The quest and weapon mods I installed.
@@Alex-0597 Creetosis mentioned it a bit in his video as well. If you want to get technical about what level you're actually on, I'd say you're perpetually stuck at level 1-10 due to enemies level scaling. While Bethesda probably thought it was a good idea that raiders, super mutants, and the like get stronger and have more powerful variants running around the more you level up as that ensures there's still a lot of challenge in the game, the only actual outcome is that you lose a sense of progression because it's going to take the same amount of bullets to kill a raider in Concord when you're level 50 as when you're level 2. Compare that with many other games such as Pokemon where when you go back to an area you were at early in the game, you can wipe the floor with the enemies there. Suddenly that pokemon that was giving you such a hard time early on is now a one hit KO. That's a sense of progression. I know it's probably a cliche to say they should have done what New Vegas did, but that game had a few "fuck around and find out" enemies that could give you trouble even at level 50 on the map in specific areas, so there was a sort of ecosystem to the Mojave.
Bizarre how he mentions midmaxing being an issue in New Vegas when Fallout 3 and 4’s dice roll speech check system allows the player to clear any speech check regardless of speech level… Essentially breaking the conversational pacing of the experience and allowing the player to skip content because of an exploitation of luck.
@Varsancton with the fo3 and 4 system a 1 charisma no speech character can still sucede every check in the game via savescuming, with the NV system a 1 charisma 100 speech represents a naturally unlikeable person that has studied rhetoric and oratory enough to become excellent at it so they can still convince you in spite of a poor first impression. your SPECIAL are your natural aptitudes, skills are the things you choose to study and train, higher natural aptitude means it will take less effort (fewer points allocated on levelup) to master the skill but you can still get there in spite of low natural talent if you train hard enough.
@@Creetosis MATN may be wrong, but at least he's good-faith and well-intentioned about it. Hard to take criticism seriously when you're being an absolute jerk about it. I get no sense of pleasant intention from you, not even a drop of respect out of your presentation. He's out to make the world seem better, you're out to fucking depress everyone. Nothing will ever be good enough, you elitist prick.
@@Mega-Brick Right, I'm the bad guy for pointing out someone's dishonest bullshit. You can lie and twist the facts, misrepresent the content and use bad faith fallacious arguments and it's all fucking fine and dandy, _because you're being positive,_ but anyone who reasonably, fairly, accurately and honestly points out the dishonest bullshit is the villain. A lie to make people happy makes you a good guy, telling the truth makes you the bad guy. What a fucking joke.
Lol, matn is the type of player that just hoards random items and has to navigate through a mess of an inventory and wonders why he cant find his favorite weapon
>Enter room >Kill everything in glorious melee combat >Mash the loot button >Teleport to base >Run from Preston Garvey to the bench >Deposit all Junk button >Once every three or four dungeons throw all the crap weapons in the pile >Teleport to next dungeon
Haven't watched your entire video yet (4 hours, what a mad lad!), but I agree on your assessment of what I said vs. what MATN straw-manned me to say. I'm not a sicko who wants to kill kids, I'm an RPG player who doesn't like being railroaded into a scenario with disabled combat and immortals. Bethesda was likely trying to dodge controversy and perhaps an AO rating, but in doing so they made an incredibly linear sequence which made me want to quit the game when I first played, that's all. Nobody FORCED them to make a camp full of immortal boy scouts, that was a decision they made.
Oh hey, wasn't expecting you to even find this video, let alone comment! Thank you! And yeah, if they really, _really_ wanted a town of immortal children, they could have put it literally anywhere else in the game and _not_ force you to earn their trust in the main quest (though, that would only solve _part_ of the problem.) What bugged me was just how much he took you out of context, too, to the point of applying your quote to an entirely different part of the game and ignores the substance of what you said. He does something similar with Hbomberguy twice later on in the video, too, referring to facing Autumn and following Liam Neeson, in which Hbomb explained quite clearly that previous antagonists were fleshed out better and were a culmination of many of the things you had to face during the games and following Liam Neeson around the map was a matter of mindlessly following quest markers without having to really think about how you approach and deal with the next objective. All three times he directly quotes someone else, he ignores the point they were actually making in order to strawman the arguments and that's the kind of thing that leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
It was basically an annoying Mad Max 3 reference they turned into an integral part ic the main story. If they made interacting with them an optional part of a quest, I think there wouldnt have been nearly as many complaints.
Man, I'm having some serious Mandela Effect with this original comment. I could have sworn Indigo commented on the Fo3 video and not this one, but the UA-cam Studio is showing the Fo4 video.
The amount of mods for FO4 that most people would call "must-haves" are staggering. The level to which i have modded that game to make it a good and entertaining time is in itself proof of how ridiculous the base game is. I will admit that after A LOT of mods, i have now made a damn good tactical shooter out of it. Fixing the writing is still impossible of course. So as a Fallout game, its still complete trash.
Enderal (the Skyrim mod) is a far better game than anything made by Bethesda since FO3 (I haven't played Morrowind and Oblivion, so I can't compare it to them). The biggest issue with Enderal is that it shares an engine with Skyrim... Similarly, the biggest issue with New Vegas is that it shares the engine with FO3... On that note, all obsidian games are full of technical issues, I find it hilarious how some people (like Razorfist, love his stuff, but he has quite a few shit takes) will disregard them because of it, nevermind Avellone's phenomenal writing, but they are perfectly okay with Bethesda's games having tons of issues. Similarly with CDPR and Witcher 3 (on release) and CP2077.
@@WildBandit300 I'd switch "near unplayable" with "barely playable". It's a glass half full/half empty situation, but I think in this case the half full is more important, since both Skyrim, FO3 and FO4 are complete experiences. Lackluster, half-assed, full of technical issues, but complete.
Indeed. In order to get the game out of the dumpster fire and back into something playable and entertaining takes a whole ton of mods. It's ridiculous and offputting to have to redownload and sort dependencies at every reinstall of the game because the base game can't stand on its own in the slightest.
@@carolinasleeper4484 Please refer to my second comment in this thread to which I add: New Vegas is absolutely complete and replayable in its current state, the content has the required depth. For New Vegas you will find that mods on the Nexus page are mostly new content, minor fixes, and one major overhaul. By comparison, if you search for Skyrim mods you will find a lot of major overhauls... New Vegas is not unfinished, it lacks polish.
"You can't level up and open a new lock immediately because you lack the skill points" - The game explicitly gives you magazines (usually near locked objects) to temporarily boost your lock picking skill by less than a full level. Can he put two and two together and to the intent of this system? No, of course not.
Damn next you'll tell me there's even a perk to make those skill boosters more effective that you can take early? Nah game bad bc you don't get to increase lockpick by 25 per level
@brekenwallar8144 im not sure what context ya missed, but yeah sarcasm aside the not being able to level things up a full 25 isnt that bad with all the tools you get.
Fusion cores feel like a game play idea to balance out power armor. But in testing they were told it's critical to raise the drop rate for them which trivialized fusion cores. So now power armor is just a choice of what HUD you want.
Fallouts are not games that were designed to be balanced.. and wanting to balance classic RPG is a stupid idea anyway Power armor in the first two games are described as ultimate weapons capable of being functional for a whole century, they are law of the strongest's embodiment
@@loc27gth44 also, in 'realtors comparing a generator to an engine - a vehicle is a few hundred kgs or tonnes of steel, and can get a few hours out of a large tank of fuel, or the same fuel could run a generator feeding a few kilowattsimilarly for a few hours. The power armour is a few hundred kgs of steel to shift about, fusion cores last a few ingame hours, but can seemingly power a few kilowatts of lighting, idling machinery etc. for over 2 centuries and still have enough juice to run armour for a few hours?
the funny thing is, he is completely wrong about the perk thing. there are way more amazing perks in new vegas than one character could have. even in my disgustinly optimized playthroughs, where I only pick the best perks, I can only be absolutely overpowered in a very specialized role. just an example: I have three different builds that are just focused on sniping. one uses "atomic!" and other AP boosting perks to get the most shots possible in vats, in combination with the "eye for an eye" perk to get +60% damage. this ends up making a character that is extremely slow and has terrible accuracy but can one shot every enamy n the game if I score a sneak hit, which is made possible with slow mo-chem turbo and spread reducing steady. another has completely neglected AP, but instead focuses on criticals and having the highest shot rate. it´s made to be the most reliable, fast-acting sniper possible. this basically turns the game into a fast-pace FPS and the third is built to be absolutely accurate and uses heavy weaponry like miniguns or plasma casters that has no business being used at long range to melt targets at the edge of render distance. all of these builds are min-maxed to hell with the same goal, yet they all play completely different because even when all perks in the game are available, you can only get 25. and between these three, only like 7 perks overlap between any two of them, 4 at most between all three. this is simply a testament to how great the perks in new vegas are. all of this is just for sniper-type gameplay and I haven´t even made every possible build for THAT. i haven´t even gotten to min-maxing other builds besides these and melee builds(which admittedly have much less variety) I am absolutely not exxagerating when I say I have never made even vagely the same build twice in thirteen complete and 5 ongoing playthroughs of this game. that´s how much perk synergy matters in NV. edit: sadly the same cannot be said for fallout 3. even though you get 30 perks instead of 25, there are only 58 nperks in the entire game with add-ons that do something other than raise skills or modify karma. less than 40 of those you would even consider for an optimized playthrough. and because most of them have very low requirements, it´s entirely possible to get all the best perks on one playthrough. I know because that´s exactly what I did on my first playthrough. I now have a character that is good at everything, has no flaws, all skills at 100, all special at 10 and all that without picking any skill perks. Jack of all trades, master of all. I´m never going to be able to make a different opitimzed playthrough because because this is THE ONLY optimal build you can make. 3 does the exact same thing that he said new vegas does terribly.
@@kingdonut8272 i made no statement about fallout 4. I have not played fallout 4. I just said that matn's comment about the new vegas perks was wrong. Edit: perks that only increase the base effectiveness of something(more damage with guns/fists/other weapons, better protection with armor etc. Aren't unique. Same goes for any perks performing functions that used to be covered by skills. I don't know how many fo4 perks this applies to, but it's something for you to keep in mind Edit edit: I looked it up and there are a measely 83 perks you can get from levelling up in fo4(yes, extra ranks are still the same perk) in fo4 with all expansions. A lot of them are just "do more damage with x weapon grouping" or "unlock the next tier of crafting recepies" most of them are simple number bonuses. quantity does not equal quality. And I wholeheartedly disagree with the underhanded incinuation that fo4 has a more in-depth perk system than fnv.
@@cillianthestupendous6093 Well, most of the perks that just flat increase damage also give unique benefits like staggering enemies or disarming them. I didn't count the basic resistance increasing ones, though, since they're basically worthless anyways.
@@cillianthestupendous6093 I never said that there were 130 perks. I said that there were 130 unique effects granted by perks. Also, your argument of them just being "do more damage with x weapon grouping" is incorrect, since they give unique effects at each level, and saying that that they're just "unlock the next tier of crafting recipes" is not a simple increase. The new tiers offer extra benefits to your weapons, like adding a recon scope that marks enemies through walls, or a targeting system to your missile launcher that literally guides the missiles to their targets, or making your minigun fire much slower, but deal more damage per shot, saving ammo, or turning your fat man into a MIRV, or making your shotgun automatic. Seriously, there are _so_ many ways you can upgrade just a combat shotgun alone.
@@kingdonut8272 that's no change to your character. It just increases the pool of weapons you have access to. Nothing about getting more weapons is unique. They cojld have done the exact same thing by scattering blueprints throughout the game world and it would have made no difference.
Also on the subject of leveling. What MATN claims to be an improved and more rewarding character progression system is actually the very opposite. Not just because of all the obvious reasons that other mentioned here in the comments but because of how level scaling works in FO4. Not only does the game spawn more powerful enemies as you level it also scales their HP based on the players level. Problem is that your level is going up constantly but only a handful of perks actually directly contribute to your damage, so unless you are intentionally min-maxing combat perks your character will actually get weaker the higher your level is because the HP scaling only checks your character level. It does not care if you invested in settlement or crafting perks. Your level is the only relevant factor in the equation. And even if you were to min-max a top tier combat character you will still hit the same problem just later as the ceiling for damage is far lower than the ceiling for HP scaling(which is technically infinite) so by design the higher level you are the weaker is your character(relative to the enemies you encounter). So if anything its FO4 that is deceiving the player with its level ups as pretends they are a net gain when in fact they can and will become a net loss.
The leveling system in FO4 is beyond stupid. The only major choice you make during the whole process is "Am I going to sneak or am I going to use VATS?". Damage perks, lockpicking\hacking perks and crafting perks are all necessary to engage with the basic systems of the game. Getting the most out of these perks is expensive too so EVERY SINGLE non challenge character will ALWAYS spend their first 30-50 levels focusing on these perks. And because the game is so shallow to begin with you'll quickly find that attempting to create an interesting, specialized build will just bar you from engaging with what minimal token complexity Bethesda tried to inject.
Because the entire point of the skill points was to do the "boring" damage increase, so that perks would do the unique stuff. But since Fallout 4 removed them, now perk slots have to be wasted on damage increase and everyone has to take them if they want to counteract the health increase of the enemies.
A roleplay Character that could have 1 Charisma and 100 speach is a person that is not found attractive but knows there way around words and how to convice others of something.
100 speech 1 CHA is literally Grima Wormtongue. Like, these types that everyone finds creepy innately but are REAL good at honeyed words *do* exist so I dont know where this complaint is rooted...
And the same applies with the rest, you have natural gifts and knowledge and experience in a certain skill. Just because I am legally blind (low perception) doesn't mean I can't accumulate experience dealing with locks or knowledge about how they work. Not because I am bad at math or have memory issues (Low intelligence) I wouldn't be able to repair guns I'm familiar with or hack terminals which I only need to learn the tricks to break in the console and guess a password.
2:55:27 Being OP and minmaxing is bad and you should feel bad. Also Many: Praises a system that allows you to essentially do the same OP stuff but worse
Yeah isnt that interestting, first he's like being able to minmax/powergame is a failure of game design and the hyperspecialised 1CHR 100SPEECH is a monstrosity. When talking about F4 suddenly super minmaxing ludicrous builds and pumping SPECIAL to 20 is awesome. And he complained that SPECIAL was too generous and now gushes how you can get STR to 30 and thats awesome...
@@legion999 It's always the mark of a great argument when you immediately counter yourself in the same presentation. I always find it hilarious, because people do this a lot, if you pay attention.
@@legion999 The difference is that in f4 theres tons of different possible builds that allow you to play very differently and not have a singular best option or useless attribute. In something like F1 you ALWAYS want high intelligence and high aqility if you don't want a massive challenge. F4 lets you build a powerful character around many different options
@@VadelmahilloVideotuotanto my first ever NV build was without any knowledge of the game and was very low intelligence and luck and very high charisma and perception I found the game to be an absolute blast my character was a sneaky rogue sort Your “you HAVE To do this or it will be hard” argument is plain dumb You can play how ever you want in all of the fallout games pretty much any build is viable
Honestly my biggest problem with Fallout 4, is how little I used my brain to actually think about things when playing. Playing a game like Disco Elysium was like an awakening. Morrowind even more so.
I always used to make fun of morrowboomers, but having played Morrowind (which transformed into my favourite Elder Scrolls game within 2 hours of playtime), I now realize that they're right. _they're right._
2:16:34 I also wanna point out a bit of missed dishonesty. MATN levels up to gain 14 skill points and frames this as the maximum amount he could be gaining from a high intelligence build. He chooses 14 because it specifically leaves him at the 39 point threshold where a magazine can't be used to boost to 50 lockpick. However as someone who plays exclusively science and intelligence characters, I can say with confidence that 17 skill points per level is very achievable, which means at level 3 with a magazine you can absolutely pick that average lock.
An addendum to my previous comment: Fallout 4 is also more of a "looter shooter" than an RPG, much like the Borderlands games. Some people (mostly people who DON'T typically play RPG's) can't tell the difference.
Yeah seems like anyone who plays tabletop RPG and isn’t thinking about the very literal meaning of those words (role playing game) would say this because if you have the right attitude fallout 4 is undeniably a role playing game that has some bad story elements, doesn’t mean you can’t roleplay
@@brekenwallar8144 I don't bother with tabletop games. I only play video games. Maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself next time so you don't confirm to others that you're an idiot. Try to avoid making assumptions in the future. I'll stick to REAL RPG's such as Fallout: New Vegas. I also plan to get other real RPG's such as the Pathfinder video games, Pillars of Eternity, & the Wasteland series.
Hey Creetosis. I wanted to throw in a personal anecdote in regards to "power gaming" in tabletop RPG's (TTRPG) versus in video games. Not a "critique" of your video, just some food for thought. I've been running tabletop games for close to 5 years now, with my current game going for close to a year now, and I've seen a number of instances where one of the players in my games built their character in a way that could be seen as "power-gaming" or "min-maxing". Usually the concern is that if one player character (PC) is too powerful in some areas (or too weak) in comparison to the other PC's in the group, and whether that can affect how the dynamics of the game will affect the characters involved. In general, it is not really a problem because in most cases (usually depending on the rule system being used) it just makes a character really good or really bad in ways that don't severely damage the game, but there are ways where it can severely damage the balance of the game when it comes to the rest of the party. I have 2 examples that can illustrate both of these from my game experiences. 1) Where power-gaming can be fun and interesting: In my current game there is a skill for gambling. The high the skill value, the higher the PC's roll will be against a determined check value, and thus the better chance of beating that check value. One of my players built his PC to always max his gambling skill anytime he levels up. Currently his gambling skill is ridiculously high, but it means that other skills suffer. Essentially all this does for his PC is that when he partakes in a game of chance he has a very high chance of success and will get very high returns. If there was a situation where the entire party was gambling, chancres high that he is the only one who would do very well as a result of this. This is certainly the possibility that the party use him exclusively in those circumstances to maximize their chance of success, but I would see that as the party recognizing the strengths of the different members and using them accordingly, which is something that I try to heavily encourage, and reward when I can, because it makes the game more enjoyable. 2) Where power-gaming goes horribly wrong in the very first campaign that I ran I had a player that wanted to use a character built with a "homebrew" class based on Warhammer 40K Lore. Homebrew basically meaning that it isn't in the published rule book and is created by people who play the game, but has to be given approval for use by the game master. Homebrew stuff is used very frequently in TTRPG's, though will depend largely on the game master and the group. This class would create a character that had very high bonuses to hit with weapons, bonuses to damage inflicted on enemies, reduction to damage inflicted by enemies and a very high allotment of hit points. The flip side, was that his other skills (social, bargaining, knowledge, crafting, etc.) were at their minimum values. So he was essentially building a character for just fighting and nothing else. Being a n00b game master the trade-offs seemed reasonable and I said OK. What i didn't realize is that in non-combat portions of the game his character was not as good as the other PC's (which is no big deal, that isn't uncommon for combat oriented characters), while in combat encounters, he could deal at least twice as much damage to enemies as the other PC's, had about a 75% higher change of hitting enemies, he would take roughly 60% of the damage that the other PC's would, and had twice as many hit points as the other PC's. Essentially, in combat he had a power level probably on par with 3 - 4 other PC's combined, at a minor cost to his non-combat skills. As a result of this, I could have combat encounters that go one of three ways. 1) enemies that are at a similar level to the other PC's so they are roughly matched, while this PC is in literally no danger at all. 2) the enemies are a good challenge for the other PC's and they are in danger, but the other PC is still a step above the enemies and in no serious danger. 3) the enemies will give the other PC a challenge, but be so dangerous to the rest of the party that it's basically a suicide encounter for them. Now as a final thought on the second scenario, having PC's who are heavily leaned towards combat versus other things isn't a problem, but this particular instance was so cartoonishly egregious that I'm convinced it was starting to ruin the game for the other players. Luckily that campaign died after only 3 session though. I think in a cooperative setting, like with TTRPG's power gaming can be a concern, but aside from the insane examples generally doesn't ruin the balance of the game. In a video game setting, especially when you are talking about single-player video games, at that point power gaming is basically not a thing that is really an issue. Partly because the game is not needing to be reasonably balanced between multiple PC's, but also because the fun of a single-player game is not strictly tied to how much of a challenge it is. To be honest, most of the time Fallout games are not a challenge, beyond the first two, but they are still fun. I think the primary issue that Jon is confusing balance within cooperative games often having a strong effect on how fun the game is, versus balance in single-player games which is not directly related to whether the game is fun.
There can definitely be balance issues in single player games. XCOM EU is a game where you control soldiers that can be four different classes, each with very different abilities. One of them, Sniper, was horrifically unbalanced. They could shoot any enemy they had line of sight on, even if only their squadmates could see, with no maximum range and an accuracy bonus the farther away the target was. It took away a lot of challenge when a soldier can shoot basically any enemy for a ton of damage with little chance of missing. And it encouraged strategies where you inched forwards one guy to reveal enemies, then shot them all with snipers. And if you didn't do that, you were deliberately not engaging with game mechanics, because everything was working as intended. The sequel fixed that by removing the accuracy bonus as well as giving a max range. And also buffing other soldiers to make them more competitive. But I cannot go back and play the first game anymore because of how much better snipers are than your other soldiers.
"Unique from the very early game" only in Fallout 4 is a pretty awful argument. I've been playing through New Vegas using 4 different characters, going back and forth every so often for variety exactly because they play so wildly differently. Even my two characters that largely focus on melee combat have a different feel- one is extremely tanky and powerful, but is constantly thwarted by locks and computers because hes got like 3 int and doesnt have many skill points to work with, wants to play nice but usually has to resort to utter savagery, and follows orders unquestioningly. The other is basically "be gay, do crimes" the character, is a glass canon who can just as easily kill in one hit as he can go down in one hit, and is a borderline anarchist while generally being a good guy to whoever he sees as the "little guys." Are the min maxed? Yep. Are they optimized? God no. They each manage to be at times frustrating to play, but that makes areas where they shine all that much better. On the other hand, I do think that Fallout 4 added some interesting enemies, particularly in far harbor. Assaulttrons, mirelurk queens, gulpers, anglers, fog crawlers, blood bugs, sting wings, and synths are all pretty neat and at times terrifying. I think my favorite addition in far harbor was the gigantic hermit crabs that used old trucks for shells- like that struck me as genuinely pretty cool and creative creature design.
A singular perk (Wild Wasteland) in NV offers enough bonkers shit and changes to content to warrant a replay, and that's just a fucking Easter-Egg Perk...
@@nillynush4899 Also the solution to the issues that the stupid "kid in the fridge" quest, among others, introduces. Every solution FNV handed them Bethesda ignored to remake mistakes that Fallout 2 made.
@@legion999 The first time there was a consequence to my taking too long and a guy died over it made me love Far Harbor. There was an actual goddamn consequence to my messing up. I missed out on stuff even. I left it in purposely because it was such an unexpected and impactful concept in a game devoid of them. (Even if there were no *long term* ramifications really, a drop of water is a ambrosia to the thirsty)
@@NewbOoyNS I've done my research as I'm trying to start a cyberpunk group with some friends and co-workers. He completely ignores that the "probability" isn't just a dice roll you also add any relevant stat or skill as raw numbers. It becomes less about chance if you min max since you have such an absurdly specialized character even a roll of 2 can be a winning throw. This also ignores that every character even npcs ran by the GM must do rolls to determine their actions so dice roll+ stat or skill vs dice roll+ stat or skill sounds far more balanced than just a dice roll determining everything.
@@ralcogaming7674 Modern D&D is very based around this, considering you have things like advantage, special maneuver dice, feats like Lucky... there's like a dozen ways to put a roll into your favor with a carefully crafted build.
MATN calling Charisma 1, Speech 100 an “exploit” is so wrong and dumb lol. Charisma refers to a characters natural likeability and genetic predisposition to being a leader, while speech refers to a LEARNED set of skills related to the use of language. Someone can absolutely be an uncharismatic, unlikeable person genetically but through study and practice gain a masterful grasp of the use of language
Charisma 1 Speech 100 always made sense to me as I could see courier as someone cunning, cold and probably mentally impaired, but with enough smarts to exploit people through knowledge of psychology. Even the process of leveling up Speech with low CHR made sense, because I had to FORCE it(via spending more points), instead of naturally being good at it. Low CHR also locks you out of CHR related skills, so its not like you get ALL the benefits of CHR out of speech.
Perfect explanation. Tho it does make you wonder how they can fix it. Potentially some NPC would just not talk with you or think you're less "trustworthy" if you have too low Charisma, aka meaning high Charisma is very preferred for Speech oriented character. Also they should totally return the ability of having a companion per 2 Charisma points.
@@danielsurvivor1372 some dude already made a mod that compares your charisma and NPCs CHR/INT when you go for speech checks. It doesn't REPLACE the skills used for the check, just considers CHR on top.
1:16:20 there's a laser pistol in Doc Mitchell's house right at the start of the game. Theres also a free plasma rifle in the coyote cave just outside of goodsprings On a side note, maybe its just me, but energy weapons in Fallout 4 seemed weaker compared to normal guns.
They feel lackluster. It's because of the resistances system and the merging of all gun skills into perks based on firing modes or pistol/rifle. There needed to be a laser/plasma weapons perk in Fallout 4. Maybe not 25% - 100% scaling like the other perks, but these weapons needed something more. But one of the absolute best non-radiation weapons is Maxson's gatling laser. Other than that they just suck.
They are AWFUL. I went from playing an energy weapons build in FNV, annihilating everything in sight, to endlessly plinking away with a fully upgraded plasma rifle. Once you hit a certain level (like 50ish?) they give the enemies so much health that combat stops being enjoyable and just becomes a slog. Especially if you’re in power armour, because enemy damage does not scale up as much as their health, so there’s no way most enemies can possibly threaten you
The ONLY energy weapon worth using is the laser musket, it's insanely OP since bethesda thought literal multiplication damage was balanced, so take whatever it's damage value is and multiply it by however many cranks you use, (can't remember if it's 6 or 8 as max) but with the right perks that gun is a one hit killer even through to the end game. God help us if it can have the unending effect for infinite cranks.
2:43:30 And there's the crux of the matter, John is arguing that the unless you specifically design your SPRPG so it can't be minmaxed, or at least so it's extremely difficult the design is crap. Which can also be understood as, "Min-Maxers shouldn't get to have their own fun." which is ridiculous. Underrail and Age of Decadence are two of the best RPGs released in the last decade and they nearly require you to specialize and min-max to get the most out of it. But they also have varied quest with a variety of outcomes afected by your actions and choice and almost every situation can be resolved without a bloodshed. Age of Decadence especially since it doesn't have random combat ecounters. In fact I fully recomend it, it's a diplomacy focused game and you can talk, intimidate, bargain or bullshit your way out of almost every situation.
To anyone that thinks min-maxing is bad, why even have stat based progression in the first place? Yes, when you play an RPG like this, you should have a general build in mind and try to play that way.
I've played mobile rpgs that almost required min-maxing, one called toram comes to mind where I realized after level 100 that if you went from one sword to two your stats were worthless, you had to respec into agility instead of dex or you weren't doing enough damage. I maxed out my agility the next moment and had 1 in most other stats.
Idk how skills confused him. In fallout since the originals, I've ALWAYS seen the skills from 1 to 100 as a percentage. Thinking roughly 1 meaning you've literally no experience in something, 25 meaning someone who has a passing knowledge or is dabbling, 50 being half as good as something can be, competent like someone who has a bachelors in a subject, 75 to be someone who can be considered a professional in that field specifically, and 100 as someone who has a masters degree,/PHd level skill in something, plus their own innovation going into it. It's not that hard to conceptualize and it's easy to guess how much of a benefit you get around those thresholds
How could it be a percentage o 1 to 100 if 100 isnt even the cap and in a lot of cases you actually need skills above 100 to pass certain skill checks and even hit your shots with decent percentages? And it is confusing because the originals should come with a manual like all the old RPG's used to
@@d.p.mlsgnrqtrsratm5793 in 1 and 2 it was displayed as a percentage to define how you rated to average. 100% meant you were 100% familiar with that skill... but you could train a skill up to 300% suggesting meaning you are 3x mastered in that skill (being basicly the best in t he world at when with a skill at 300). i was disapointed that new vegas didnt bring back quite as much emphasis on skills but i guess you cant make an FPS like that. fallout was more fun as a tabletop simulator where the computer is the DM.
@@danielbou-assy446 they're worse than Fallout 3's factions. They're just raiders in different clothes and weapons. The only one that's "different" is the Gunners.
He seems to have played quite a bit of New Vegas so I can't understand why he thinks 10 INT is the power build. With the DLC and grabbing the skill books you can easily get 100 in every skill having 4 INT.
9 Endurance is the way to go so you can select every available implant. Intelligence like you pointed out is not impressive. You don't need to max every skill e.g. don't need both guns and energy weapons.
@@wsmiles8677 Get banned from every casino in new vegas! god I wish NV was playable on modern OS and hardware... I've tried for weeks to make it work. it does not.
@ZeeHero Don't think there have ever been issues with NV running on modern hardware. Even if there are, a quick read-through of a mod guide like Viva New Vegas would teach you how to fix and improve the game.
I like how MATN claims master skills with low special attributes is unrealistic, yet ignores that a male character, who is a soldier, doesn't know how to shoot a gun well at the start of the game, or a female character who has a law degree doesn't know how to charm people or convince them with low Charisma. You'd think with the reliance on perks, they'd have replaced tagged skills with starting perks, so your character isn't completely inept at the start of the game.
@@AdityaKumar-qk9xo Given we see him with a gun, fully armored, and marching into battle alongside other soldiers, it's safe to say he has combat training, medics typically are more lightly equipped to make room for medical supplies. Given she managed to get a law degree, I doubt that's the case, and if so, she'd still be skilled at persuasion to convince them to give it to her LOL.
@@risso2309 he's just marching, no where does it say into battle. Infact, there's a power armored guy with him, meaning he probably isn't the most combat oriented anyway. And even with zero weapon skills he can still kill a raider easy enough. The wife can also pass easy skill checks with lowest charisma. You're trying to mix up roleplaying and skills. That will never make sense, as they are given general backgrounds, no specifics. I can find flaws like that in literally every fallout game to date
Speaking of grenades. MATN is the kind of guy who uses grenades when his character is *"nice and close, nice and close, nice and close, nice and close"* to an enemy and uses VATS (which lock his character in place) to throw said grenade. I don't have any formal military training. But I'm pretty sure "nice and close" is the last thing you want to be when using a grenade of any kind.
700 hours in fallout 4, know the game inside out, and I have to say, fallout 4 is actually *insanely* shallow, more than you realize. For example, the junk system is only useful for settlements and not much else. Oh sure, you can use junk to attach a powerful receiver to your hunting rifle, but why do that when you can grab a free combat rifle from the start of the game and upgrade its damage with 0 points into gun nut. Hell, why even use the "junk system" to upgrade weapons at all, when you can powerlevel your way to the point where even a common mutie drops a fully upgraded assault rifle for you to use? Oh and sneak and sneak attack criticals are so overpowered, you could play nearly the entire game with a combat knife, 0 junk and crafting involved. There are no tactics involved just retardedly op mechanics, very badly balanced. At level 33 you become a god that can kill behemoths with a single knife attack and no armor and that's with 3 fucking perks. You try doing that in NV on a high tier enemy like a deathclaw or cazadores, and you will get your crap demolished instantly. No, you actually need to be prepared to fight these enemies by buying appropriate weapons and ammo. Cazadores are very weak to hollow point ammunition and high dps weapons, so an automatic weapon loaded with hollow points is the optimal way to deal with them. For deathclaws, you either go for sneak attacks with a long ranged, high damage weapon, or raw dps weapons with armor piercing properties (minigun, assault rifle, tri-beam with overcharged ammo etc.). Actual tactics and planning bolstered by good perk and weapon design vs brainless sneak attack crits with dumbass op blitz perk dealing upwards of 700 damage with a switchblade. Also, NV has an antimateriel rifle with explosive ammo, fallout 4 doesn't (the creation club crap doesn't count). Checkmate.
I played Fallout NV only recently and I am not looking at it with rosy glasses as you all do, so I really think you are giving it way too much credit. Sure, it has the better story but the AI and the gameplay sucks. They can not duck behind the cover, and the run at you in a straight line even if the are not melee. Also I didn't feel it's much harder then Fallout 4, rarely died from Dethclaw or Cazadores etc. and overall it was more buggy and crashed a lot towards the end of the game. Just my experience.
>"you need ackcthual tactics to fight deathclaws!!1!" Let me remind you how insanely OP melee/unarmed builds are in FNV. I can simply stunlock/knock over every deathclaw and maul it to death with little to no planning whatsoever. As easy as that, and I was playing on Hard, mind you. A bit harder with Cazadores, but only if I haven't completed OWB, where I can get poison immunity. I will never, ever stop saying that FNV (basically, FO3) SPECIAL system is incredibly broken. I also second the buggyness and instability of FNV, only got it stable after modding the absolute hell out of it in my latest playthrough, which is still ongoing
@@pug-aloentertainment3801 Cool, now play on very hard where your damage goes from 75% to 50% and damage taken goes from 150% to 200% and proceed to get one-shot mauled by a deathclaw mother/alpha. Your only chance of winning with melee is high stealth + stealth boy + a weapon with a high enough damage to one shot with sneak attack crits, or a boatload of chems, preferably anything that gives DR and slows time (turbo, implant GRX, slasher, med-x, battle brew). Meanwhile in fallout 4 sneak attack crits are so busted (x10! melee damage multiplier @rank 3), that you can one hit kill nearly everything with a combat knife, with the blitz perk making gameplay even more braindead. So yeah, preparation is needed in FNV, whereas in Fo4 all you need is a high enough level, no consumables, no good equipment, just sneak + ninja.
@@meropticon_1651 first of all, very hard in GameBryo games is idiotic in a way. Second of all, even lower damage won't stop me from knocking deathclaws over. Also, most deathclaws were perfectly capable of one shotting me on Hard already, so your advice about very hard makes no point. And before you tell me to try gun build, there are shotgun perks that turn Quarry clearing a laughable endeavor, which I already tried myself
@@pug-aloentertainment3801 1. 🤓 2. Try hardcore and very hard 3. Fallout 4 crashed on startup for me, i had to use F4SE and the unofficial patch to even get in the game
Obsidian literally handed Bethesda a cheat sheet on how to make a great fallout with mass appeal but they still fumbled fo4. Matn uses new vegas as an excuse for why fo4 had troubled development when in reality it SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE REFERENCE POINT TO IMPROVE UPON. WHY BETHESDA!?
Something I thought you could have brought up when John was saying new Vegas had weapons becoming obsolete by mid game was the specialized perks and more importantly skill points. Sure, your 9mm smg isn’t great, but every 25 skill points it’ll get a damage boost, plus the grunt perk will give you an additional 25% damage, something you can do if really feel like putting the investment into guns. If you don’t want to engage with this mechanic in new Vegas, you have a brand new weapon: 9mm smg to 10 mm smg to 12.7mm smg, plus the Thompson if you have honest hearts and the silenced .22 if you want a specialized weapon. Putting a new receiver that doesn’t even have a visual change on your combat rifle is not the same. Edit: just realized something as well. The greater weapon selection makes a weapon more “yours” than renaming the same weapon. I’ve never talked with or seen somebody play with the same 7 selected weapons as I have. Weird special weapons like the multiplas or 5.56 pistol are much cooler than your legendary weapon with a unique name
12.7 MM SMGs and Thompsons mostly compete with the 5mm and 5.56mm rifles and the LMG. Since they're two handed and some perks draw a distinction between one and two handed.
2:14:00 Skill threshold is evil and must be condemned. Specifically for lockpicking. Because it effectively turns a 0-100 scale into 0-4 scale. In the world where Skyrim exists. In the game where you can (less effectively) use guns with higher skill requirement that you currently have. Where MaTN does lose his point is the fact that in FO4 you can't go from one level of lockpicking to another in one levelup too. Because they have level restrictions that prevent you from picking it.
IMO Lockpick should be integrated into Sneak. Since lockpick is very linear and singular, compared to its counterpart Science where you can hack terminals, pass dialogue and practical skill checks, and create powerful items. With that out of the way. Lockpicking and hacking shouldn't be level locked. They'd still have levels, but meeting that level makes the minigame easier. Locks and terminals have 0, 25, 50, 75, and 100 levels. As you level up sneak or science; Locks' "sweet spot" gets wider and bobby pins become harder to break. Terminals "dud removers" show up more and "replenish attempts are guaranteed to show up if you meet the terminal's level. And personally to make lockpicking a bit more challenging, 75 and 100 level locks have 1 and 2 more additional "sweetspots", respectively, that the bobby pin must get to while holding the screwdriver in place before you can resume turning the tumbler
The fact that--to him--"specialization" means "have maximum everything in every category such that nothing is 'weak'" says he has no idea what character building or specialization mean. By definition, a specialty is something you are ESPECIALLY good at, which means there must be something you are especially average or mediocre at. You don't "gain specialization" by just bulking your stats, th that's just leveling up.
I don't watch MATN myself but the more I listen to him, the more it sounds like he just doesn't play RPGs, or is the worst example of a powergamer if his statements are anything to go by.
What Many described is being GENERALIST. Completely different word. Sometimes generalists are jack of all trades, sometimes generalists are good at everything
@@danielsurvivor1372 Still sorta raises the question as to why he thinks people shouldn't make specialized characters and that an RPG's mechanics should discourage this, when its a very common and possibly even fundamental aspect of both tabletop and digital RPGs.
@@averymicrowave1713 EX ACTLY! Honestly that's one of the reasons I prefer FNV compared to F3. Tho NV also has a problem where you get to lvl up almost all your skills to 100 but it's less severe and I atleast can alwaya just ignore dialogue options that don't fit my character.
@@averymicrowave1713 the funny part that popped into my head just now is cyberpunk was criticized for not being much of an rpg yet I find myself stating at my perks more than my weapons because I have to make sure I don't accidentally spec wrong and ruin my build.
It’s so eery to see how similar MatN’s defense is compared to HBomberguy’s Dark Souls 2 defense. Not talking about the game’s strong points but about how the actually best game in the series is secretly the worst, the broken systems are genius the world building, enemies, even the freaking speedrun comparison is in there.
I've played demon souls up to dark souls 3, even bloodborne. Out of all the souls games..I really enjoyed dark souls 2..bloodborne was my most played though..but I absolutely love ds2
@@dreadmonkey6811 I think DS2 has just more interesting and volatile level design than all the others. I think if you enjoy that, it's probably the best Fromsoft title.
Honestly, it's always been my opinion that the junk/weapon mod system makes the game *worse*. There is now very little reason to loot enemies for weapons because you are better off crafting weapon mods yourself. Since weapon durability is no longer a thing, you can't loot a weapon to use to repair and improve your own weapon. Also, you can't loot several of the same kind of weapon from enemies and jury-rig them into a single high-quality weapon as a way to increase the amount of loot you are carrying without increasing the weight.
Bruh the crafting and scraping is time consuming and awful. I can't have fun with 4, i really try but end up spending my time with Immersion breaking Settlement building crap.
@@LordMegatron818 Sure but my point is that it's often not worth looting their *weapons* since they have a bad caps-to-weight ratio. F3 and FNV didn't have this problem because of the durability system.
@@lewispascoe1145Yeah I guess so, I noticed that too and it's really grating. I mean if you really wanted to you could just slap on some power armor and have your companions lug around that stuff, but I guess it really doesn't solve the issue.
@@LordMegatron818 IIRC, most weapons in Fallout 4 didn't sell for much unless they had tons of mods on them. I remember specifically avoiding double barrelled shotguns because they had a value/weight ratio of 2.
Correction for Many. Perks WERE fun. Now they kind of aren't. I recall 1 and 2 having perks that scaled with levels and had some amazing effects. Who remembers the unarmed perks from 2 that let you play the whole game with zero weapons?
Yeah, the perks in FO4 are just your check markers for what used to be skill levels. They don't allow for any interesting change in gameplay, they don't add any cool mechanics or interactions.
@@Gakusangi not all perks are like that, like blitz allowing you to teleport with your melee weapon, or the mysterious stranger showing up. but yeah the majority of perks aren't very interresting
How about my choice to never interact with the dog at all? Oh wait! That's not possible, because after you and Nick find the hidden room (which is only possible if you have Nick with you when you go there, because the button literally doesn't appear), you HAVE TO follow the trail with Dogmeat to find the building Kellogg is held up in. If you don't do that, then the elevator is blocked off, and you can't access the area the boss is in.
@@Gakusangi Yes... and funny about it is that Nick suggest to you using Dogmeat even when you left the dog in Sanctuary Hills and he never met him and the dog magically appears in front of Diamond City....
@@MirecU Yeah, that really bugged me too! How did Nick know Dogmeat? That would imply they met. Nick lives and works out of Diamond City, so Dogmeat left the city, traversed all the way past several other towns, some including raiders (who do use dogs, btw), and then ended up at Red Rocket for...reasons? It's like no thought went into this at all, Bethesda just wants you to use the dog.
2:05:30 absolutely correct. just recently, i was playing new vegas. i hadn't been putting skill points into speech, and so when i reached boulder city, and rather than being able to do the speech check to get the khans out of there, my only immediate peaceful option was to bribe the NCR preventing their escape, something i wasn't even aware was an option at that point. whereas in fallout 4... in truth i can't think of a comparable example.
Now that you mention it, there isn't an option to use a different "Skill Check" in 4. Because the "Skill Check" option only occupies the Triangle/Y button during dialogue. Its only either "Speech" or "Barter". PS I used "" because there's no Skills in 4. Its just Charisma checks.
He sounds like such a spoiled brat when saying "If I go to a place it should always have loot" it's like a kid always wanting an award for just showing up. The empty spots make the good finds more valuable. I prefer it over having literal garbage everywhere lol.
I was at the midnight release of Fallout 4. This was back in the day when Bethesda still garnered a lot of respect from their player base. We were so excited about getting a new fallout game that we didn't ask for anything or expect anything. Then, when I got to playing it, I had a nagging feeling in the back of my head that I really wasn't having fun and that there were crucial game elements missing. A fucking disgrace of an RPG and I regret spending as much time playing it as I did. There is no replayability.
@PrinceJingim I don't play games with an agenda. I play games that are fun, for fun. I understand feeling betrayed if a game doesn't feel true to its roots or just feels like a slap in the face from the devs, but I just don't get that vibe from 4 tbh. It feels different, but it still did alot of things right, is the most player friendly, has the biggest if not best modding community of any fallout, not necessarily good graphics, but still good looking, and certainly better than all the others, and is really big. I think fallout fans should be hating on 76, not 4. Even if you think 4 was a bad game, that's nothing in comparison to 76, even if you like 76. All the terrible things Beth did with that game, I'm sure you've seen "The Fall of 76". Beth has made alot of mistakes in the past, but in my opinion, 4 wasn't one, at least as a whole. But 76, not only was a mistake, it almost felt intentional. Hate on it.
@@raygetard3444 Fallout 4 doesn't feel like Fallout, *to me*. I appreciate the civility and your thoughts on the matter. For me, fallout is about the consequences of human arrogance. In Fallout 4, there are very few choices that matter, even less so in 76. It's important to me that I have an impact on the communities around me via my actions.
@@DarthHellion2 yeah, I agree with that, and of course the story wasn't as good as in NV, and the factions felt weird, how they all sorta had the end goal of just killing each other. But, I liked it overall, and I appreciate the level headed approach too. Many people are so one sided, you know? It's my side or your side. They are just games, and though different, I'd say both NV, 3, and 4 all have their ups and downs, despite NV being the best.
Had the epiphany that in FO4 you're basically Barbie when you said "Nora the mayor-prospector-mercenary." Thanks for adding another notch on the board of reasons why FO4 isn't a good RPG.
Oh boy. Did MaTN really say that making highly specialized character builds in older Fallout games was a bad thing, but making highly specialized character builds in Fallout 4 was a good thing? I can't comprehend this logic. Maybe my build is not specialized enough to truly appreciate this olympic level of mental acrobatics. Also, his rant against using numerical values for skills in computer RPGs was utterly bizarre. Does he know how digital computers work? It's in the name - "digital". Numbers are unavoidable because to a computer everything is represented with numbers. Of course, some games are too coy about the exact mechanics and formulas used to calculate the outcome of various interactions, but that's not an argument against using numerical values for skill proficiency in general. Great video! I'm glad that it popped up in my YT recommendations today. You've got a new subscriber.
It is also funny how MATN made a point about how bad it in in FO3 and NV to make a character that has access to all perks, but think the perks in FO4 where you can literally get 10 in everything AND get all perks is just fine.
On "junk economy". This sounded familiar and then I remembered Mandalore's video on Pathologic where he described its bartering system as "hobo economy". And there it made sense as it was an intricate net of different people bartering only specific items for other specific items (that you mostly find in garbage). It was its own economic system. Just selling junk to vendors for money isn't.
Here is the video of the arguments in the video (stamps start with MATN's argument then Cree's response):
00:10 - Recap of the Previous MATN video that Creetosis responded to.
01:09 - Examples of the Straight-up braindead arguments of MATN's Fallout 3 Video
06:18 - Reddit User in MATN's subreddit misrepresenting Creetosis' video
08:03 - Creetosis's Expectation of MATN's "Fallout 4 is better than you think" when hearing about it
10:30 - Creetosis' first impressions.
12:22 - Jon describes Fallout 4's systems as "elegant"
12:38 - Jon begins the video as he wants to start from the beginning
13:56 - Jon claims the fanbase of Fallout 3 have a higher chance of being more familiar with looter shooters than RPGs.
15:27 - Jon says that if your frame of reference for criticizing Fallout 3's gunplay is the looter shooters in the 90s, than you're correct.
16:27 - Jon doubles down on the moronic argument that fallout 3's gunplay is intentionally bad.
18:39 - Jon claims that boosting gun-related skills will improve the gunplay significantly.
19:34 - fans of the RPG genre were more vocal about Fallout 3's unrefined gunplay.
20:47 - Creetosis explains the simplistic quests of FO3, and how it's inferior to New Vegas.
23:01 - Jon attempts to frame FO4's development as nightmarish.
24:54 - Jon does some serious gold-metal mental gymnastics to try and frame that NV was more the influence of FO4, rather than Skyrim.
25:43 - Jon intentionally makes speculative claims about FO4's development but states it as fact, as if he has insider information or something.
28:12 - Jon, once again, makes a claim without substantiating it with EVIDENCE.
29:04 - Creetosis explains how skyrim would've had more influence on FO4's development than NV.
29:26 - Jon makes another strawman argument.
33:25 - Jon claims that we should've expected the product we got at release because of what Pete Hines said in an interview that hardly anyone watched.
39:18 - Creetosis explains how Fallout 3 & 4's setting is nonsensical.
41:06 - Creetosis explains how to find the nice middle ground between accesible and complex AKA New Vegas.
42:13 - "The Junk System is one of my favourite additions to Fallout 4, it's a brilliant system that adds so much to the game."
43:06 - Jon Starts the actual defence with defending a system that has nothing to do with the critcisms of FO4.
43:28 - Jon attempts to make junk not being valuable to the player a problem.
46:27 - Jon attemptes to prop up an extremely basic system and views it as a net positive.
47:49 - The Junk system, no matter how good or bad it is, doesn't make any game that have it, any less or more well written.
48:35 - Jon gives another non-existenent example in a another attempt to make the previous games' systems look bad.
50:51 - Jon makes another statement without any cited sources beyond "trust me bro"
52:13 - the systems present in FO4 is nothing new and is actually present in many other games like it.
53:16 - "a concerning amount of joy" & "Dynamic Scavenging"
55:49 - "and then it struck me, the game not only to play like a scavenger, but to think like one too."
59:25 - Fallout 4's a game that emphasizes Junk Collecting, in a series that emphasizes role-playing.
1:01:27 - Jon Begins to explain quite literally the progression in almost all of bethesda's games.
1:03:03 - Jon once again, makes the same argument that junk having no value, is a problem.
1:05:55 - "Junk Economy"
1:07:54 - Jon praises the fact that forgetting the main story in a FALLOUT Game, is a good thing.
1:09:19 - Creetosis describes MATN's flowery language and his attempts to title basic stuff with more fantastic names.
1:10:11 - Jon, once a-fucking-gain attempts to prop up a basic system to be bigger than it is.
1:11:15 - Jon props up the same basic system.
1:12:58 - Jon Makes the claim that FO4's weapon modification system fixes the "problem" of the previous game of early-game weapons stagnating.
1:19:09 - Jon Claims that picking a weapon modification is picking a "specialization"
1:20:48 - "I'm about to say a controversial thing."
1:22:28 - Jon claims that the legendary system fixes the "problem" of weapons no longer being useful at a certain point.
1:25:51 - once again, Jon presents another basic opinion, as if it's controversial.
1:27:29 - Jon thinks that making a particular feature good, makes the other features less-important.
1:34:25 - Jon mislabels the criticisms of the game.
1:36:43 - Jon contradicts himself on the whole "looting" argument he made earlier.
1:38:32 - Jon lies about the settlement building feature being optional.
1:40:47 - Jon continues to praise the settlement building feature and claims it's a part of role-playing, while forgetting what role-playing as a character is.
1:44:37 - Jon rightfully praises the reduction in special points, but forgets to mention that it's totally useless.
1:46:16 - Jon Compares the limited amount of special points, to the trait system.
1:51:19 - Jon claims that Skills were never good in controlling the aptitude in key skills.
1:58:52 - Jon claims that skills don't work in a video game.
2:00:01- Jon tries to paint the picture that skills are bad by comparing normal playthrough builds, to SPEEDRUN builds.
2:06:14 - Jon Makes another attempt at making it seem like skills are a bad thing.
2:10:30 - Jon considers his kid-self not understanding the skill system as a problem of how skills work rather than himself not understanding what skill he picked work.
2:12:18 - Jon thinks progressing in skills is a bad thing and makes it seem insignificant.
2:19:06 - "Skills can completely run counter, to role-playing."
2:21:36 - Jon is confused at the anger towards bethesda when they announced they'll be removing skills.
2:23:11 - Jon says that skills being folded into the perk system is a good thing.
2:27:28 - Jon inadvertently praises Skills by praising the fact that NV removed most of the skill-boosting perks from FO3, completely forgetting to mention that FO4 also mostly has skill-boosting perks.
2:31:10 - Jon, Once again, makes an issue of nothing, and props up something basic and calls it "specializing"
2:34:14 - Jon praises the very basic idea of progressing through levels, and Contradicts himself on the whole "min-maxing" thing earlier.
2:36:12 - "You can do a fusion core bombing run, it's amazing!"
2:37:59 - Jon Continues to misunderstand what choice and consequences is.
2:40:09 - Jon makes a series of disingenuous claims about the previous Fallout games.
2:45:32 - Jon, once again, attempts to make the Perk system of Fallout 3 and NV to appear more flawed than it really is.
2:50:01 - Jon thinks FO4 is the best game in the series at letting you build a character that gets to be unique.
2:51:46 - Jon Claims that special being uncapped, and thus being able to manipulate it beyond 10, is specializing.
2:54:59 - Jon Considers the use of chems and food, as further specialization.
3:00:23 - Jon Contradicts himself yet again.
3:10:07 - Jon attempts to defend bethesda reusing enemies, by making a completely different argument.
3:17:20 - Jon Claims that Fallout 4 fully embraced a faction system.
3:20:12 - Jon makes the claim that most of the people who are involved in the main story are more interested in the Institute than Shaun.
3:26:18 - Jon Claims that much of NV's quests have no visible consequences.
3:29:31 - "You'll often find yourself feeling very relieved when you hear the sound of an approaching vertibird"
3:45:32 - Jon Claims that FO4 emphasizes it's story through gameplay rather than dialogue.
3:45:56 - Ludo Narrative Bull-shitery.
3:48:58 - Jon Praises the fact that a quest is written in a way that align with the faction in the game is about.
3:52:46 - Jon attempts to do the same thing with the railroad, while using the only example in the entire game.
3:55:44 - Jon unironically defends the radiant quests of the minutemen,
3:57:52 - Jon Claims that BOS's quests are mostly violent while forgetting that most of the quests of the other factions are also about killing.
4:00:25 - Jon continues to praise the game for doing something that is expected of it.
4:03:16 - Jon Praises the fact that radiation now does a direct subtraction of your health bar.
4:09:24 - Creetosis highlights a condescending tweet made by MATN after the video's release.
4:10:48 - Creetosis finally concludes the video.
feel free to correct me on any mistake in the timestamps
thank you for taking the time
@@rxvenge90 no problem, it's great to provide viewers with easy ways to get to the arguments they want.
Shouldn't it be "Here are the times of the arguments in the video" Instead of "Here is the video of the arguments in the video" Grammar is important .
@@erikscott1049 oh yeah, extremely sorry.
Well it's clear what this comment is about because of the timestamps.
"Fallout New Vegas is worse than you think" - For your overwhelmingly monstrous behavior, you have been vilified by the community
@@IMBREISGAU woah, is that a video he's actually working on?
@@IMBREISGAU I think the pitchforks and bonfires will actually come out for that video.
@@freshjones6962 I'm hoping... Sarcasm.
@@downwithputinsaveukraine1313 as am i
@@roopereimi1718 And that's the thing. Despite the fact Obsidian having a time crunch and the gameplay being a little clunky (though it's an improvement from Fallout 3), it's still much better than 3 and even 4.
The story, characters, atmosphere and the RPG elements are what makes New Vegas an amazing game despite its flaws. And it's still amazing without applying mods.
Fallout 3 will always hold a place into my heart for being the game that introduced me to the franchise, but after playing 1, 2 and New Vegas, 3 and 4 just makes it look like a basic game compared those games.
Fallout 4 is the kind of game I would be playing and enjoying (with mods), while listening to a video like this about how bad it is.
Like cyberpunk
True. You can tell when you’re invested in an open world game: you can’t actually listen to videos in the background while playing, because you’re trying to concentrate on the world. I always have a background sound of somewhat educational/critique/political type of videos while playing open world RPGs, but I never did it with games like the Witcher 3, because it’s too fucking great to just not admire every second.
It’s a fun game to turn your brain off and play
That's exactly what I did. It was the first Fallout game that I installed coomer body mesh mods for. It was also the first Fallout game that I played for combat. It's a decent sandbox. And even then, its only decent because its supported by a community stemming from previous titles. It will become a GOOD Fallout game if FNV project succeeds lmao
I do wonder is it just me that roaming around Boston in F4 feels boring af???? I rather roam around Skyrim which is more enjoying because Skyrim is BEAUTIFUL af
Junk is a core aspect of Fallout 4. I can get behind that. There are many things in Fallout 4 I consider junk. Like the dialoge system. Or most of the quests.
For me the junk in this game is just design to waste your time to play this game more. (sorry for my poor english)
@@kunatipsatsomnuk7672 Your english is pretty good man 👍
@@kunatipsatsomnuk7672 no? you can literally go through the whole game without using junk on- nevermind you have to use it for a specific quest at the end of the game.
Theres not a problem with the junk items in FO4. and the power armor customization is a straight upgrade.
I just dont think we should get a power armor handed to us so early. the only real issue with FO4 is the lacking RPG elements. which is an important issue dont get me wrong.
@@zeehero7280 it's factions and dialogue are quite lackluster, and the weaponry (although i love the modification, i wish they just expanded on it more), but the core gameplay is there.
"This mission shows the narrative genius of the writers. You see, Its a mission for a street racing gang. And what so quietly reinforces their core values, is that in this mission, they have you driving a car fast, On the street. Absolute storywriting bliss!"
I like 3 things about Fallout 4. Character customization is the best by Bethesda standards, weapon customization, and turning power armor into a vehicle that you pilot instead of just being an outfit that you wear. Everything else I don't care for.
I "kinda" get the cool factor of F4 power armor, but I have so many gameplay and lore issues with version I could go on a rant about how much I hate it.
@@legion999 With the fact they all use the same internal frame? Or the fusion cores or the T60 and early X01? (Interesting note, I was told that in F76 T60 is ONLY better than T52 at radiation protection, and slightly worse at physical and energy resistance, seeming to lean into the idea that it's actually just an upgrade kit for T45.)
Previous fallout games: T-51 is the pinnacle of pre-war power armor
Fallout 4: T-60 goes clunk
I'm not even mad about how X-01 suddenly becoming a top secret PRE-WAR power armor. We can believe it was in the early stages and the enclave, being pre-war america remnants, carried on the project. But the T-60??? It looks radically different from the T-51 and unironically similar to the T-45, so perhaps a T-47 or maybe a T-49. It just made 0 sense.
The only thing I don’t like is the fusion core because I’m a lazy piece of shit
The only ones of these I slightly disagree with is weapon customization. The concept was great but the way it forced you to interact with the shitty scrap collecting system was insufferable. Half of my playtime was spent hauling garbage back to my base to be processed into armor\weapon upgrade parts. I'm aware that you could downgrade dropped weapons and strip the components but that was heavily RNG based and I never got the better upgrades from it.
If I loot a diner I don’t expect to find good loot 100% of the time, there are scavengers in the wasteland so a diner out in the open shouldn’t be full of untouched loot every time
Especially if said diner has been around for 200+ years after the nuclear apocalypse.
Especially when you find a Location called Waste disposal Site with No fucking loot, not even an empty bottle.
@@whitefatalis2743 I kinda expect waste disposal to be highly guarded because of abundance of valuable pre-war trash.
@@whitefatalis2743 like, in underrail there is a junkyard that was ruled by two rivalling gangs and the only place for valuable loot is to enter the more deeper and dangerous part of said junkyard.
Also if someone’s living in said Diner MAYBE THEY SHOULD GET RID OF THE SKELETON SITTING IN THE BOOTH.
57:18 To be fair.
The term "RPG" is so watered down by average consumer that almost everything is considered an rpg so long as it has leveling up system and skill trees.
Heck on Steam, XCOM of all games has RPG Tag on it.
Yeah anything open world with a skill tree is basically an rpg. They took the r out of rpg and it feels a lot rarer now to find games that let you actually start as a blank slate to customize your character and backstory.
I don’t even know what an RPG is anymore. Fallout 1-NV seemed like RPGs but someone said “No not RPG” and I got confused and Final Fantasy gets called an RPG but I don’t knoe
I think AC Odyssey classifies as a true RPG to some degree because you can actually change the ending and fully embrace the R part of the term. Fallout 3 and 4 both have the problem where you can’t roleplay a pure asshole character because then you can’t do some missions, but Id still classify them as true RPGs. If I can change the ending, make the choices I want for my character’s personality, and modify at least something, then I’d view it as an RPG.
For me RPG is build char like only tank, mlee, sniper or Hybrid, this is what i get from playing CRPG game like PoE not just Roleplay only from dialogue, but if you can make char build can do anything like Skyrim i think term RPG just lose
@@Ultrue87 rpg is more than gameplay choices. While I have similar sentiment with you, i do wish that rpg is *MORE* than just gameplay differences. Being able to play from a goody to shoes samaritan to jack the ripper is something most rpgs dont do. Different builds only get u so far when the outcome is the same.
"Todd Howard's belief that you can get stale, by staying on one spot."
Ahhh yess, that's why we have been re-releasing skyrim multiple times a year for the last 11 years. To avoid stagnation...
I mean everyone still playing Skyrim is doing so on such heavily modded setups that they discover things like Merdia is actually an invisible NPC in the sky with a unique Magelight effect because her boner is unaffected by these effects, resulting in you being taken to the great shlong in the sky to recieve divine consultation
Haha I said the same thing a year later
and why the brotherhood of steel is always in the games
I think the fact MATN thinks that the limited choices players have when it comes to weapons and armour in Fallouts 1 and 2, and that one of them will always be the best no matter what, is going to make playthroughs feel the same, really speaks to his mindset. The choices of weapons and armour are not the main focus of the games, it's the choices players make in resolving quests and choosing their path that matter.
Also, saying that there is no reason not to use anything other than the best equipment is bullshit, it's an RPG! The reason for a player doing something can be as simple as 'because I wanted to'. For example, I have played a lot of Fallout 1 and 2 and one of my favorite equipment builds is a Leather Jacket and a Shotgun, why? because I think it's cool, I may struggle against some of the tougher enemies but I that's only if I choose to fight in the first place. There is more to an RPG than becoming an unstoppable killing machine and I'm not sure MATN gets that.
Sorry, if you make any of these points in your video, I'm only about 1 1/2 hrs in atm. Enjoying it so far though mate, really excellent work.
Just got a little further into the video and MATN claims that in Fallout 4 you can use a weapon for as long a you like, not sure why this couldn't have applied to the previous games as well, and before someone mentions the upgrade system, that just means that using the weapon later in the game won't be as detrimental to your ability in combat. The ability to use whatever weapons you like whether or not they are the best is a choice the player gets in all the fallout games. The ability to upgrade your weapons to maintain their relative effectiveness against the enemies you are likely to face is just far more important in Fallout 4 due to it's over reliance on combat as a means to resolve conflicts. Fallout should be about how a player chooses to resolve conflict and the consequences of that choice, not what gun they use if they choose to fight.
Furthermore, from a roleplaying perspective I find it far more interesting to, as a result of my choices, find myself in a combat encounter where I cannot win and have to either lose or run away and then dealing with the consequences of that, rather than trying to decide what sort of stock I put on my rifle.
@@sgt.oddball7556 Based on this video, I have to say it seems like MATN just doesn't like RPGs. He doesn't like that you can be very good at some things, that it's possible to create a build that appeals to you but is powerful, he doesn't like upgrading weapons by swapping them out with better ones because he likes how FO4 allows you to upgrade weapons by keeping them but modifying them... he just *really* doesn't seem to understand what an RPG is.
It just seems like he wants to play, like Conan: Exiles or something. Which is cool, but an odd way to approach the FO:NW vs FO4 argument.
Something MATN doesn't realize is a couple disconnected RPG mechanics don't make Something an RPG
@@SimuLord Yeah, it sucks to see. Used to watch his videos years back. He's clearly intelligent which is what makes it obvious to me that he's being disingenuous in his arguments. It's insane how his fans just take what he says for fact even though almost all of his arguments can be objectively proven false with minimal thought. It made me lose respect for him.
GTA-5 has more significant choices in it's main-story and it's not a facking RPG.
I like how the game giving you a turret section against enemies that have been hostile to you the entire game, continue to be hostile during the mission, always fight to the death to the point of regularly using suicide bombers, that has only two individuals that you can interact with peacefully ( one of who is also a stupid, murderous psycho) is supposed to be some sort of awakening moment about how brutal and authoritarian the Brotherhood is.
Maybe if Bethesda stopped painting super mutants as blood-crazed orcs, that mission would have given me pause.
Damn, if only Super Mutants weren't always evil bad guys and had a motivation and drive behind their actions. Oh well, I'm sure Bethesda would have used that if it was a thing.
I mean the moment the Brotherhood arrived in that stupid blimp I could instantly feel that I was not gonna be a fan of the change form their Fallout 3 change (cuz I actually LIKED that. It felt like a natural need for adaption to fit a more civilized world rather than the century+ years prior where it was mutated animal monstrosities, radiation-crazed psycho-raiders, etc. that the Brotherhood had to deal with.
It's why I fully agree with Veronica in New Vegas and find it hilarious that the Brotherhood's yet to figure out why they lost at Helios-1.... They were fighting a trained, regimented and professional ARMY, not bands of drug-crazed Raiders or overgrown ants.
@@terminator572 Eh. it might be a bit too much, but it was at least a nice change from the prior ways especially since it's decades since fallout 2's timeframe.
Wait really, it's supposed to show you how authoritarian and brutal the BoS is? If that's the intended takeaway it utterly fails, I didn't get that at all, I thought it was just supposed to be some setpiece thing like the deathclaw fight considering all super mutants ever are in Beth games are generic enemies. Hell I don't think I would have cared even if it was human raiders I was shooting, might have been more impactful if you went into act all gestapo to some relatively peaceful ghoul community, but you don't, and I think that would be pretty hard to pull off well.
@@Beowulf-sn8ir I highly, highly doubt that Bethesda intended that quest to paint the brotherhood as zealous extremists. Maxson uses some very harsh language to describe the mutants, but it’s not like there’s a ton of pro-super mutant sentiment being pushed by the other factions. I know Bethesda’s writing in fallout 4 was horrendous, but it might be giving them too little credit to say that this mission was meant as a lesson about the brotherhood’s cruelty.
Then again, they did write Kid in a Fridge, so who knows what the fuck they were thinking
Cannot wait to hear MaTN try to defend Starfield removing attributes entirely and locking basic game mechanics behind perks.
Oh man, this was one of the few games I’ve ever preordered and was excited for and I couldn’t have been more disappointed. I never played any of Bethesda’s games on release and only ever got around to them after the fact so I got caught up in the pre release hype which really tarnished my view of Bethesda as developers and Todd in general with how well he sold that game.
@@dawsong5208I’m so glad they didn’t win any awards at the game awards this year
It’s such a bad game. Just on every level.
@@UnknownName5050 i've seen many reviewers/personalities who were critical of starfield say "it's not bad, just bland" but in today's videogame market bland is bad, and it's really exposed a lot of absolute hacks on youtube which is the only GOOD thing i can say about starfield
@@dawsong5208 A sucker born every minute, eh?
2:16:44 He's wrong in even more ways about getting literally nothing when you level up.
1) In New Vegas you gain max hp every time you level, no matter what.
2) I'm pretty sure that every point in lockpick makes it harder for picks to break. Regardless of if you are at a threshold or not. I know for certain it works that way in other Beth games. So you are still getting better at picking locks.
3) Even if you can't get from 25 to 50 lockpick you are still closer to the threshold and can still use magazines or drugs to boost your skill temporarily. You can walk around at 35 lockpick and eat a mentats and a skill magazine to instantly boost your skill to 51 and get through that average lock. He knows this. He is just being dishonest.
It is definitely the case that every point of lockpicking increases the "sweet spot" size on a lock in FO3 and NV. Each point of hacking increases the chance you will get fewer words to pick from, thus making hacking a bit easier because there are obviously fewer "dud" words, but also it means there are more chances to get brackets & parenthesis to remove duds and trigger allowance refreshes.
and we all know buffs are specilizations lol. MATN points are so bad he defeats himself..
The thing about using magazines and mentats to temporarily reach the threshold I was almost screaming at my screen while watching the video.
"You don't get anything from leveling up!!!" is maybe the dumbest game related argument i've heard in, i don't know, years. For one. WRONG!!!! For two. Even if in completely hypothetical case that will never happen where you get a level up without an immidiate benefit, you're still closer to the next level, so wtf.
@@TheodoreSign Or something a simple mind like MATN could understand, increasing guns increases gun damage.
On the matter of lockpicking/hacking in New Vegas, MATN neglected to mention that there are ways of temporarily boosting those skills, such as certain attire and skill magazines. So while maybe an entire level up's worth of skill points might not be enough to increase lockpick skill from 25 to 50 or 75 or 100, it can increase it enough to where it can put you within reach of those tiers with the help of those other temporary skill boosts, so it is not correct when he says that you don't gain anything from that.
Is nobody going to mention increased odds of passing the force lock check? Or that you get more dud removal/attempt resets and less passwords overall? No? I'll see myself out then. And maybe to one of your MATN videos. He may joke about pitchforks but goddamn he manages to anger me with his stupidity.
@@dividewalker5673 honestly even as a massive fan of lock picking in these games I keep forgetting there was force lock, and I believe I’ve used it exactly once which was by accident, and The lock broke soft locking me a bit.
@@dividewalker5673 Yeah, that's a great point also. It's just that forcing the lock is generally a REALLY bad idea so you should never do that. Bobby Pins are plentiful and the mini game really isn't that hard, so there's no reason to try to force it and the consequence of breaking the lock and being denied entrance is too great to be lazy and skip the mini game. And yeah, there's the infiltrator perk which gives you a second chance on broken locks, but perks are so finite in this game...
The only way I'd ever see forcing the locks being worth doing is if you're roleplaying your character that way. There's no logical practical reason for doing so.
"there's no logical reason to force lock"
me, force lock-ing every lock to save time and quickloading if it fails: hm...
@@VimyGlide Quickloading is cheating... if you want to play that way, fine. At that point you might as well be using console commands to give you infinite money, immortality, etc.
I actually collected Teddy Bears and stacked them on my bed in any Fallout game I've played.
I actually despise how overused teddy bears are in FO4 as sight gags. like Bethesda is so uncreative in making funny things out of environmental storytelling that it feels like almost every location has a teddy bear with glasses, or a teddy bear reading a newspaper, or a teddy bear with a hat, or a teddy bear with a helmet, or a teddy bear with a cigar, or two teddy bears in a sex position, or two teddy bears in a different sex position, etc. It's honestly just annoying.
@@Evelyn-qt3hi I've never been clear why they even want the sight gags. They set up a world that has murderous raiders in it and they apparently spend all their free-time posing teddy bears awkwardly. Really undercuts the characterization of their easy enemy.
@@ryanjones_rheios it’s like a shitty way to tie the new series’s with the olds “quirky humor”
@@SahiPie Which has always been a bit tone deaf. The old game's humor was less quirky and more darkly absurdist. An odd adaption of people to a world cast in the shadows of humanity's cycle of failures. The conversations and notes between raiders in F4 (one of the very few things I'll compliment in any way) do a far better job of that than any of their superfluous sight gags. (Both bear and skeleton) The other type of humor the original games had was pop-cultural referencing and it was *widely* panned after Fallout 2's overabundance of it, and it often seems like Bethesda wants to unironically replicate it when Wild Wasteland showed that there's a vastly more acceptable way to handle it.
I collect 3 thing gnomes, for my tables and chairs, pre war money for me bed and abroaxo cleaner for every where else
It’s crazy that so many people can’t admit, or can’t accept, that you can just say, “I like this game, I don’t care if it’s not good.”
I agree. I like plenty of bad things. Just because I like something doesn't mean it has to be good.
I enjoy Conan Exiles, an objectively bad and boring survival game that for some reason I would play for hours a day
@@lol-cp2eg I feel you. I absolutely love zoning out to Diablo 3, but I understand that it's not all that great of a game and the criticism leveled at it is fair.
I loved the Leprechaun films, not the newer ones - the ones with Warwick Davis in the title role. He's clearly having SO MUCH FUN as this semi-serious horror villain.
Stygian Reign of the old ones is one of my favourite games of all time, yes it's still a disaster of a project that will never be finished.
People really can't accept that they can like bad things. It's like they enjoy eating cheesecake so they try to prove with all their effort that cheesecake is healthy for you.
Every time I see a breakdown of fallout 4 I think “now hold on, it wasn’t *that* bad” and have to remind myself that I had like 50 mods installed before I’d even started playing and kept going from there.
I have played it with over a hundred mods and I still think it's pretty bad. I imagine that without mods I wouldn't be able to bear playing the game at all.
@James if you install one of the wasteland overhauls after it you'll get a similar effect, for example fo4 seasons autumn. but removing the snowy textures isn't that hard, you open frost - textures.ba2 with archive2.exe from creation kit, then search for landscape/ and delete everything it shows, then save.
@@kazuya246 Oh don't get me wrong, the plot is still cruddy and the bullet-sponge enemies fill me with righteous indignation, but with the right mods it feels really good to just wander around helping people with minor (in the grand scheme of things) problems and rebuilding infrastructure. If anyone knows a way to make the enemies not scale to the player's level, please tell me.
I've beat the game amny many times no mods had a joy. Sorry you can't enjoy it.
@@zelculothesquid8201 honestly the easiest way to deal with bullet spongy enemies is to play on survival. Like it’s not perfect 1 shot 1 kill, but it’s very close, and also is a really good experience on its own. Like MATN talks about it in his video, but survival mode is arguable one of the best if not the best survival game a AAA studio has made. Well worth playing, and maybe even a solid reason for getting FO4 in the first place.
Everything in Fallout NV Tutorial is optional. That why Fallout NV Tutorial is so good
And in spite of that, I look forward to choosing to do the NV tutorial on every play. The Oblivion and Fallout 3 tutorials, on the other hand? Loathe them. They suck, they're long, and they're unskippable.
@@logan_wolf the nv tutorial used to be my step 1 always. I wanted those free items. Max durability varmint rifle, after the ultimate edition came out you were pretty much set for the start of the game.
@@ralcogaming7674 Oh yeah, the NV tutorial was mildly interesting, too. More than could be said about the others. And that varmint rifle is beast, especially if you get lucky enough to find Chet with a scope in stock.
@@logan_wolf i check chet first if he's got it i sell off a few things and buy any mods for it. Then I'll get it if he doesn't i run instead and will grab ratslayer from the cave near nipton i believe. God i haven't done a fresh NV playthrough in awhile.
@@logan_wolf Fallout 3s tutorial teaches you how the dialogue works, that you dont have to use violence to solve everything, and teaches you how to defend yourself. How is it not good?
Hand placed "loot" is better for world building and fleshing out the specific area it's in. That's because those items aren't there just for you. They exist even without the player, they're part of that world. Randomized "loot" limits how much depth the world has and how much sense it makes materially. A world with a more static( as opposed to random) item placement will always be more fleshed out and in depth and memorable, than a world where loot is randomized to remind you that this is a game. Especially when that randomization reaches ridiculous levels with boss chests; which are the in-game equivalent of loot boxes.
The "dungeons" in KotoR for example are much more memorable partly because of that. The entire dungeons are hand crafted and items are placed with more care. No randomized "boss chest" is memorable and their contents exist separately from the world around them, their contents are mostly dull and repetitive junk and no different than any other chest in the game. Like I said, loot boxes. Same thing goes with legendary enemies and weapons( or for that matter, random enchanted items in Skyrim).
I think the problem is that randomization is used as a solution for everything, when it should be a precision tool. Randomization on it's own isn't a bad thing, if it's used in a limited capacity, but applying it to nearly every aspect of the game, like the way it's done in Fo4 isn't good.
The exception is roguelikes, of course, but that's an entirely different genre.
@@Creetosis Well not just roguelikes as I'd not call Forager a roguelike game and then again its randomizing element isn't loot so much as it is land and enemy aswell as resource spawning to a degree
I love digging through some long-forgotten vault or bunker, cracking that super difficult safe, and being rewarded with some crappy pipe gun or some jet or something else that shouldn't realistically be there.
@@markdavis180 right? that always bugs me...
Random stuff should be filling the gaps between handplaced truly unique things and be the viable option. Besides, it should be properly balanced else its some fucking shit moment that one guy said about in that thread about vault having minor junk.
I literally laughed out loud when he said that he hated the skill system cause he couldn't pickpocket people at megaton and didn't understand that INCREASING SNEAK HELPS YOU PICKPOCKETING
OH MY GOD HE SAID THAT GIVING DOGMEAT NEW MOVES LIKE HES A FUCKING POKEMON IS A GOOD THING ABOUT FO4 HAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHA
He does understand that he just thinks that's stupid. I do too I like how fallout 4 does it where there's a pickpocketing perk and a sneak perk. The two shouldn't correlate they should be their own separate thing.
@@arturfernandes101 TBH companions are one of the great things about 4.
@@arturfernandes101 My god you are so unbelievably cringe. Do you ever read these comments back and think about just how big of a redditor you sound? It's hilariously pathetic.
....what? Pickpocketing requires you to BE sneaky. It's like making Big Guns and Small Guns seperate.@@philo2189
"Fallout 4 is better than you think."
"Now let me tell you why min-maxing in table-top RPGs is bullshit"
Yeah, I was like, a lot of people like Morrowind as much as Skyrim. Morrowind has skill / stat based accuracy like in Fallout 3. Skyrim has player skill-based accuracy and your stats solely deal with how much damage you do.
The mechanics themselves don't matter as much as how well they are implemented.
People often conflate "Had fun" and "good", or just can't admit they enjoyed something objectively bad. I played fallout 4 for a good 140 hours and had a ton of fun with it, my favourite bit being repairing broken down power armors I found around the world and collecting them in a settlement/home. But it's a deeply flawed game barely held together by flashy combat and the fallout universe, and there's no way to deny that.
Ngl building Frankenstein suits out of the misc pieces of power armor was fun, but 4 got me into fallout when i was 13 and it has a place in my heart for that, but damn the game has some serious issues.
"People often conflate "Had fun" and "good""
Exactly. And they then follow that up with arguments like "fun is subjective, I had fun therefore the game is good, therefore good is subjective" and like... dude at that point we might as well just ditch quality as a word. Why review anything? Why consider quality at all? If it's all ~subjective~ and any game, no matter how awful, can be enjoyed by _someone_ then... then you thinking the game is _good_ ceases to matter too. If no media can be bad, then no media can be good either and there's no point to any discussion of anything.
And that's so obviously bullshit that I'm not going to bother going any further.
@@Shenaldracthere's people who continue to think fallout 76 is actually good, because they get home very tired and play two hours with their friends who are also exhausted and think because their brain dead body produces minimal levels of serotonin, the game is good no matter how brain dead the activities are, to them it's stimulating because the rest of their time awake is daily repetitive tasks.
I wouldn't care of these same people weren't the ones driving the industry and the intellectual property in a completely brain dead position.
@@lasarousi Strong Agree.
exactly fallout 4 to me is an okay game i think the power armour makes far more sense than the older titles did i love the settlement building i agree things are lacking but its a game i play constantly because i find it fun and enjoyable
If you made a Fallout game with the integrity of the RPG-story focused driven from 1,2, and New Vegas but keep the crafting, the weapon combat, and textures of 4/76. It would be a good Fallout game.
I'd make it so that you have to put in the work in character build progression to have combat be as good as 4's.
Weapons have corresponding skill requirements. The closer we meet them, the better our character uses that weapon.
Also use Dying Light 2 style melee combat. That was pretty decent.
Ew
Alternatively, just make more niche isometric games.
@@DJWeapon8I mean Dying Light 2s melee combat is both better and worse than the predecessors. Fighting human opponents feels drastically better but on the other hand the zombie combat feels generally worse.
@@paranoiaproductions1221 from what I've observed. Zombie combat in Dying Light 2 is the melee equivalent of damage-spongey looter shooter. The zombies just aren't dynamic and have unimmersive amounts of HP.
The most “choice” one has in Bethesda’s Fallout games is having the choice to play it or not.
worst is no matter how many mods you put, you are still a whiny WHERES MAH BABY BOI!! parent .
That's pretty meta...
Not true.
Thanks to the power of mods, you can also make a choice about how much sex appeal the Deathclaws should have.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 How could I have forgotten. My apologies
I mean, Objectively, thats true for every game.
"Poor gunplay to reflect a lack of experience due to your time in the vault." The one single thing we know about what the vault dweller was doing in their spare time was PRACTISING SHOOTING, even shooting live animal moving targets, so yes, that clearly doesn't match up.
Even if it made sense for the player to be bad at using guns, that’s moronic. It’s like saying you shouldn’t be able to run for long or jump high because you lived in a vault and wouldn’t move around much
Well, to be fair... practicing with a BB gun doesnt really prep you for shooting pistols, automatic rifles, shotguns, ect. Thinking playing with your airsoft will make you good handling even a .22, much less something more complicated with a larger round is a little silly
@@wjmackenzie955 You can get your gun skill to 100 in the game and the gunplay is still the same lol
@@fudgeslicer9264 the same except the dramatic difference in spread and accuracy of your shots, sure. Nor is your comment actually responding to a single word of my previous post... so kudos on your oneupsmanship comment I guess? Whatever floats your boat.
@@fudgeslicer9264 the same except the dramatic difference in spread and accuracy of your shots, sure. Nor is your comment actually responding to a single word of my previous post... so kudos on your oneupsmanship comment I guess? Whatever floats your boat.
I like how MATN cherrypicked his example of dumping points into Lockpicking and not being able to open average locks and he's still wrong. Going from 25 to 39 Lockpicking means you're now in range to open an average lock if you use a skill magazine and mentats for the temporary PER boost. It's almost like those items were put in the game for a reason.
As the meme goes with MATN: -1 Perception. He has a tendency to miss the immediately obvious, so of course he'd forget about that. Lol
Its worse than that.
He neglected to mention that Fallout 4 Locksmith perks are arbitrarily level locked.
In Fallout 4, master locks can only be picked after reaching level 18.
In 3 in new vegas, you'd reach 100 Lockpick at level 9 with the lowest skill point reward every level up
@Siberian With Science, you get access to a good amount of perks. And with Lockpicking, you get a lot of important loot
@Siberian For lockpicking sure it's not very useful outside of getting loot. But science can actually be useful for crafting, and dialogue.
@@DJWeapon8 And having that level locked with mobs becoming more bullet spongy as you level up. Ugh.. The difficulty implementation is so bad, so classic Bethesda. It was the same shit in Oblivion, just no reason to level up except expect more spongey enemies.
57:00 the point he is trying to make really stings me since you aren't playing as a scavenger, your playing as popsicle husband or wife. They never had to scavenge anything before but suddenly become survival experts. Would you know how to build a working generator from scrap metal and junk like our ever precious desk fan?
I could make a dynamo charger like artyom uses in metro those are simple, can I do it in an apocalypse? probably not. I need electric.
Game: you need 50 points in this skill to do this thing
Player: *levels the skill at 39 points*
Game: *doesn't allow you to do this thing*
Player: HOW DARE YOU, YOU BROKEN PIECE OF TRASH! BUT I LEVELLED UP!
That feel when a deathclaw shreds you, so you level up once and put on new armor and a deathclaw shreds you.
Gee it's almost like one of the game's many mechanics is balancing your skill points
But it's actually impossible to go from 25 to 50 Lockpicking (or whatever) in a single level. So that means you can have a dead level up, except for HP. I don't think that's a HUGE problem, but he's not wrong that dead levels are quite boring.
@@Sines314not necessarily true. Use consumables to temporarily make up the difference.
@@Sines314if your intelligence is high you have around 12 skill points, if you tag a skill it will have double points, most tagged skills start over 18, you can assign 24 to add up to 42, with a single magazine you reach 52.
If you put everything you can reach certain thresholds in a single level as long as the skill is tagged. And you can tag up to 4 with a perk, effectively you can have 96 points in 4 level ups.
The funniest part about his lock picking example was that fallout nv addressed this problem with the lockpick skill magazines for temporary boosts to your skill
He also omits that Fallout 4 is actually much more limiting than 3 or New Vegas when it comes to Lockpicking and the Perks system in general.
In 4, perks have level requirements and since abilities that used to be handled by Skills are now turned into perks, lockpicking is also locked behind levels. To get Locksmith 3 to pick Master safes you need to be at least LEVEL 18.
Meanwhile in 3 and New Vegas. At the lowest Lockpicking level (15) and the slowest method (10 points per level up) you can reach Lockpicking 100 after 9 level ups at LEVEL 10. 8 levels earlier than Fallout 4.
There's also the fact that both 3 and New Vegas have items and equipment that will temporarily boost your Lockpicking level. With New Vegas having the highest boosts with Skill Magazines and Comprehension.
@@DJWeapon8
Don't forget Mentats.
For his example of getting to Lockpick 39, Mentats are actually enough to get you to 50.
But drugs are specialization, not buffs, so this doesn't count.
That's the funniest part to me, he talks a big game about how important looting is, but doesn't even think about using the loot you gained. I can't go from 25 to 50 lockpicking in a single level up, but i could go from 25 to 35 and get to 50 with items and equipment.
I think it's interesting that many a true nerd mentions how you shouldn't be able to perfectly wield a gun right outside the vault 101 but not a former soldier who's been stuck in ice for 200 years cobbling together screws and glue to make a full auto compensating pistol
Nate wasn't a soldier in the Chinese War. He was a soldier in the Hobo Wars
Or how the soldier man and lawyer woman are both exactly equally capable of doing these things
@@CErra310io
@@aprinnyonbreak1290mi
You know. When you put it like that it would have been interesting if nate started more combat focused and Nora more speech focused because of their backrounds (Both of which you could ignore of course. just would be starting stats)
the "im roleplaying as a scavenger" argument is beyond dumb, because its going to work the same way every playthrough. If you are playing the same character/role every run, it is not an RPG but a scavenging simulator
Scavenger/architect/ Bob the Builder/ Experte for scraping plastic and Metal XD. The whole scraping and Settlement System is Immersion breaking.
@@noobikus5475 not to mention you play that role every single time you play, but now thanks to you, the bob the builder theme will play in my head everytime im slapping down some turrets if i play fo4 again
@@JACKELincorporated you're welcomed XD. The Problem is you can built this turrets like that. It would have been better if ( Example): you could steal a turret by hacking it deactivet it and take it with you. It would be much more work and give it value because it's hard to get one. But for the effort it's a good defense against Enemies. That's exactlly what makes fallout 4 so awful, Nothing hard and creative to do.
@@noobikus5475 sorry sir this is bethesda, we don't do good ideas anymore
@@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384 so how are you going to make that teleporter?
Apparently obsidian was originally gonna have a function that would let you continue playing new vegas after taking hoover dam and you would be able to see the consequences and fruits of your choices. for example, if you sided with yes man, after taking hoover dam, freeside becomes a warzone etc
There's a mod that does that, taking the incomplete dialog and left over content plus what the main writer left to the community regarding postgame.
It's one of the best mods out there that is just more game
"If you want to run a town, you need high Charisma"
- So what about crafting a campfire? The game force me to be level 14 and a Charisma of 6 to do that. Why am I force to be a town leader in order to be able to craft a campfire? Why must a rough anti-social hunter that lives in the wild be Charismiatic?
And apparently you cannot rule by force rather than through charismatic leadership.
@@kinagrill I feel like Nuka world DLC really made it fun
@@kinagrill cant make a comune either. No one is happy.
Don't you know? The flames of a campfire are powered by red hot burning love. XD
Lame joking aside, I do find that odd now that you pointed it out.
"I role-play as a rough anti-social hunter."
You're definitely ngmi.
MATN gripe about Skill Points was also misinformed on the grounds that the games have Stat boosting apparel and drugs/consumables to nudge you to the limit as well. They even have magazines to permanently boost skill levels too, then his avoidance of FONV and its temporary boosting magazines (which is fair because it was about his FO3 experince). Everyone has put on a article of clothing, drank liquor/popped drugs/ate food and wear a hat to try and meet a skill check because they lacked the points and needed that push.
And sometimes it wasn't even a mistake to not have the correct amount of points. By investing just enough so that the temp boosts can achieve your goal, you're able to distribute more points elsewhere for other aspects of your build. You only need 55 and the Comprehension perk + a skill magazine to get you to 75, so you can invest those other points someplace else they can be useful.
The more I think about it the more I feel like Fallout 4 may have secretly had a troubled development cycle. You can tell that entire towns were planned out before being scrapped and replaced with Settlements. There's a ton of areas that feel like they should be interactable but are actually just full of raiders\monsters. There's also a bunch of needless detail under the oceans that implies they were supposed to be explorable at some point. The major factions feel like they were all written and designed in a vacuum and then frankensteined together into the blatantly self contradictory plot that we got at the last minute. Either bethesda just stopped caring after Skyrim (which is a distinct possibility) or there's something deeply wrong with their current project structure. I'm fully convinced at this point that ES6 is going to be an absolute dumpster fire.
For me Bunker Hill is also another kinda-smoking gun.
It's one quest where all of the major factions are involved at the same time, and thus can see where the PC's allegiances lie. It feels as if that's the point of the game where you would have to pick which one you want to support and prove your loyalty by helping them win the battle.
And yet, that's not it. After you win Bunker Hill for any faction, you still get to double cross whomever and keep doing quests for any faction until you are basically tasked with wiping out another faction. It feels like such a copout that I can't help thinking that they originally intended Bunker Hill to be the end of Act Two of the game (finding/contacting the Institute) but then they created a handful of faction quests they couldn't stick in Act Two, so they put all of them after Bunker Hill and pushed the point of no return for the factions back so that players wouldn't "miss out" on too much content.
“After” Skyrim? The writing quality in Skyrim wasn’t all that great either.
@@Delete240 Skyrim wasn't absolutely overflowing with plotholes. Nor did it mass murder my braincells every single time any character opened their mouth like in F4.
Not saying Skyrim writing is great, but it did the bare minimum it needed to do.
@@SpadeDracothere’s fantastic, there’s functional and then there’s failure.
@@SpadeDracoI have no idea anyone can finish Bethesda made main story. I have tried many times but I had fun doing side quests and exploration in their games. The setup always sucked and I have never got invested in the story.
Morrowind had so much side content and design was so eerie I got lost in exploration.
Oblivion? You sit in a cell and king walks by freeing you. I jolted out never to do any main quest because why would I?
F3, first hour is just an irrelevant slog. And after all went to shit, why would I want to go after father? Is he even alive? Will mutants eat me? How will I survive?
And finally F4, slog again but feels shorter and setup makes sense but how story is unfolding is like it was written by half disabled chatgpt's cousin. How protag does not even take into consideration how long he was in stasis is not just beyond me, it's just fucking beyond any creature capable of understanding object permanence.
I was actually astonished by his comparison to ttrpg's. Literally a few minutes before, I was thinking "Clearly, this guy doesn't want an RPG, he just wants a shooter since the element of randomness that stats and skills have are a fundamental part of RPG's on a purely gameplay mechanic." And there he goes talking about how fallout 1 was built around GURPS, which proves to me that he understands what an RPG is, and that he isn't looking for one.
To be fair - you can't just put ttrpg mechanics on top of action game. I wish 3d fallouts used Escape from Tarkov ideas ( skills affect recoil control and reload speed rather than damage ).
This was especially bad in New Vegas btw 😅
You absolutely can put ttrp mechanics on top of an action game, in many it would be the correct way of doing it (Werewolf, Exalted, 5e) because those games are not very social.
But you can't put ANY ruleset on an action game.
I can't even think of anything Bethesda got right in Fallout 4 other than the gunplay (which they got id software to do for them), and the world itself being a lot more believable (food, water, and electricity sources being thought of for most/all the settlements).
and people have modded some of those gameplay changes into new vegas. so why even play 4?
I legit love how power armor functions. Not the fusion cores, but the general feel of power armor and how it works.
I liked the improvements to creature ai and animations. A couple of the companions- ex. Nick, Curie, Hancock- were pretty neat base concepts, though I wish they had better development. I liked exploring, though I wish there was better environmental storytelling to find.
The fact that the world feels alive? You will finds things happening when you explore it, random and scripted events.
And i will say it, Fallout New Vegas world was barely living in comparison to Fallout 4 or even Fallout 3.
Its a win-loss situation with me.
Gunplay and animations improved, but it breaks immersion more when your character can wield every single weapon proficiently but deal low damage when you're not spec'd into them.
Better and more realistic layouts of settlements due to the settlement system, but barely any memorable civilized locations in terms of named NPCs and stories.
Something that I can say I dont like about the new perk system is how it often forces you to take "dead perks".
He doesnt mention that crafting requires perks.
Charisma 6 and Local Leader 2 for crafting stations (hate this the most)
Science! for energy weapons and settlements
Gun Nut for guns
Armorer for armor mods
At least in NV crafting was based on skill level with some perks adding specific recipes.
The "required" perks pretty much take all the fun out of level progression. Even at level 50, I barely feel like I've built my character.
I'd be curious to really look at how many of the perks are necessary tax to make a basically functional character. Before you get to the actual abilities that are cool, just the "take these or your character cannot play the game" perks.
At least one, probably both of lockpicking and hacking, at least one of the damage boost perks, probably at least 2 or 3 of the crafting/settlement perks.
I'm already at like, roughly ten levels of perks that are taken off the top of a character as tax.
Also, don't forget, that the... ice gun in the vault is specifically there to motivate players to get those unlocking perks, so the perk tax is deliberately intended that you should be taking them.
Late to this comment but if you start the Automaton DLC with low intelligence and at a later level, the points you have to spend just to be able to build a decent robot are abysmal. That’s why there’s a mod on nexus that removes all requirements.
The DLC advertised being able to customize your very own robot, but failed to mention how many levels and how much time you’d have to waste just to get the perks required.
I just want to say I hate the charisma 1 speech 100 argument because it's not that hard to imagine someone who can say something that makes perfect sense but you can't stand being around.
Agreed. Being charismatic and presenting a convincing argument are two different things. Being charismatic just makes it easier for people to believe you.
I think his point was that you can access every opportunity and challenge associated with dialog while having the minimum value for the stat that's supposed to affect dialog. It's still a dumb argument because pretty much every stat works like that.
INT 1 Science 100, AGI 1 Sneak 100, PER 1 Guns 100, all of these are perfectly possible in NV. All Fallout 4 does is require you to have enough points in the stat to access the associated perks. So INT 3 Hacking 5, AGI 3 Sneak 5, PER 2 Rifleman 5 (or whatever stat you need to get those perks).
Which is basically what NV did. Sure, you can get super high skill with guns while having Perception 1, but you'll want a 5 or 6 to access later perks that make guns really effective. And the perks that make sneaking around easier and more effective have a moderate Agility requirement as well. There just weren't many dialog perks that mattered, so you didn't need Charisma.
Being logical isn't charismatic
@@tannereldred7039 gravity exists moron, not a nice statement but it's a true one and no one can argue that...well they can try. Being nice has nothing to do with being right but people are more likely to accept an uncomfortable truth if its said nicely.
I think it's a valid argument because Speech is tied to the Charisma stat, something you think would be important in using the skill since it's under the Charisma banner of skills.
The fact you can just dump it entirely means that Charisma might as well not even exist.
I do like your answer though since it is a good way to roleplay it.
I love how in new Vegas there is nothing stopping you from killing many characters such as Caesar and Mr House. One of the most fun moments I had was when I used a bunch of stealth boys to enter the fort and try to kill the entire legion while being a rich, low level, gambling addict, stupid, courier
you can kill every faction in fallout 4 as soon as you meet them
@@pemioi minutemen
@@pemioi Ah yes, you kill them, make them take a knee and tell you about those settlements
@Pemio! You can't kill the railroad at first because they're essential. You also can't kill the minute men
@@pemioi you're funny guy, allot of characters in fallout 4 are invincible
I don't know how someone can defend an 'RPG' with speech options that are literally
Yes
Yes
Yes but "funny"
Yes
hey dude some of the funny options are fucking hilarious
@@mav9987 they're hilarious sure but they're not sarcastic it's just the character being rude but doing the quest anyway
@Nunya Business nv isnt even old school. It is still an fps. i think people got angry because the games mechanics aged pretty well but bethesda still got rid of them in favor of a water down version that no one asked for. fans of fo3 didnt have a problem with skills either so why did bethesda change it?
@Nunya Business and yeah the industry is changing but old concepts can still work. just look at all the crpgs that started coming out after 2014. its niche and based on an old style but a lot of people are playing them now
MATN goes to great lengths in his second video to condemn this issue as something that was a mistake on the side of the developers of Fallout 4. He separated the videos into two camps, he started with the positives in the video being addressed here and the negative in his part 2. I personally enjoyed both videos but I’m not a game critic or anyone effected by this sort of thing. If you feel Jon’s part one video praises the game to much, the part two will likely be more your speed. Hope you do enjoy 😊
Obsidian literally gave Bethesda a handbook of how to make a widely beloved fallout game with New Vegas and Bethesda took it, tore out the pages, and used it for toilet paper (ironically what Pagliarulo would complain about players doing, the garbage hypocrite). I sincerely hope that they learned their lessons for Elder Scrolls VI, because I dearly want TES to have RPG mechanics again, especially if we're going to Daggerfall and Hammerfell, which are just two RIPE settings for roleplay and intrigue. But Im not holding my breath, and I hate to see one of my alltime favourite settings so dumbed down of its RPG mechanics.
I would like those things as well, but I'm actually expecting a completely classless system with the four skills "Hurty, bonk stick", "Bendy stick with sharp, flying stick", "Magic" and "Stuff making". On a more serious note, I expect the new TES game to be like a Skyrim mod with loads of bad and contradictory lore imported from TESO. There might not even be any differences between the races any more, since that could potentially stop you from getting the "full experience" in a single playthrough. I could also see the choice between red, green and blue on level up being seen as too permanent, and for those attributes to be baked into equipment. If there's a voiced protagonist, and considering the number of race-gender combos, you might not even get the "Sarcastic yes" reply available in dialogue.
I'm pretty sure they confirmed the next game is in highrock
@@MrVeps1 Unfortunately, that's probably how it will turn out. "A game so bland that it makes British cuisine seem spicy in comparison".
2:01:01 I like how he arguing that speed running is bad as if having the CHOICE and freedom to do that is a bad thing , he is actively arguing for Bethesda to strip down the game
@@amannamedsquid313 isn't starfield that already no?
If you’re siding with the factions purely for the rewards the minutemen are the worst, ballistic weave is infinitely more useful than the castle or artillery.
You still get both, you just cant have the brotherhood or the institute from a certain point onwards if you pick the railroad
@@gollumbeutlin5646 except even that’s not really the case, after you’ve nabbed Deliverer and Ballistic Weave, you can just bail on the faction entirely or even massacre them and go join one of the other factions.
@@Slender_Man_186seriously, you get both so ridiculously early in the Railroad quest line you can get their best rewards and then destroy them right after if you want
@@Slender_Man_186literally that’s all I ever did whenever I had another run. Get the weave and dip, as a faction they suck booty.
I'm 5 minutes in, the entire opening in Goodsprings requires a half dozen skill checks to assemble your army to fight the Powder Gangers. How did they miss that?
*makes popcorn* *checks length* *makes a whole LOT of popcorn*
this gon be good
I made way too much popcorn
always fun to see him make a fool of himself in an attempt to try and mock Jon
Please I'm way too high for you to not use commas
I got a pack of cream cheese and chives crackers there pretty good edit: I got gummys I'm not eating anymore for now
Things I liked about fallout 4: building, weapon mods and the color variety in the world.
What I liked about new Vegas : the actual game
I too liked the color, and the combat. But I hated the building and didnt care for the crafting because it forced to scavenge for garbage.
@@legion999 I enjoyed building, but even that has disappointments. Like how no one will “attack” your base outside of story missions, and instead maybe a raider or two will spawn in the middle to be immediately destroyed.
a game has many different components: story, gameplay, level design to mention just a few. while new vegas does have a better story than 4, the world itself is pretty dull and most of the dungeons are either uninteresting copy pasted caves or tiny buildings with a few enemies in them meanwhile the dungeons and world map in 4 are objectively better. they make use of verticality, they have a larger variety and more complex designs. not to mention that fallout 4 has better environmental story telling as many locations have notes, holotapes, computer entries and skeletons which make the world feel lived in.
@@666FallenShadow I think one problem I have with the world in fallout 4 is that Bethesda makes everything look like the bombs went off yesterday. Even areas people are actively living in still have skeletons and trash Everywhere, while new Vegas is more “post-post apocalypse” where you’re more likely to find what remains of more recent events, unless you go into areas like vaults where people rarely go into anymore.
@M G I just wish there was more “normal weapons” like how fallout nv had a lot of normal looking guns. Instead we get a lot of pipe weapons.
It doesn't help that during the interview he referenced, it couldn't have been more vague. I mean they don't give specifics out often. I believe we all knew that they were narrowing the dialogue down to a four-choice wheel, and pitched it like Mass Effect. Well, a lot of people like mass effect and while we're concerned about how you'll handle a previously robust roleplaying system with only four button presses available at a time, we're willing to give it a shot. And then we actually SAW the dialogue system. Four vague choices that didn't represent at all what you were going to say, and at times covered up what was essentially just "press button to continue scene", without any real impactful choice. Playing with that one mod that actually shows the dialogue, and you're in the diner and one choice is different while the other three are "Wait, what?" couldn't have laid bare any clearer the illusion of choice at work in the background, and just how shoddy it was. It isn't about doing this different, it's about doing it well, and there's a prime example of it not being well-done, and that certain choice made to be "different" didn't add anything, and in fact took something away.
Yes, Angry yes, Sarcastic yes, Get paid to say yes
@@floridferret4585 I wish we'd just do away with the voiced protagonist in games like this, it adds nothing and usually serves to take something away from the player. We don't lose anything by having more options and the studio not having to pay for more voiced lines.
@@Gakusangi I agree. If the game isn't having the player step into the shoes of a specific character then doing voice lines for the PC is just extra cost and effort for a loss.
@@floridferret4585 And in a game like this, it's well established that we are our OWN character, not someone else's. It's been that way since Fallout 1, in the main title series. We've never had to play anyone but who we wanted to be.
He acts like the minor radiation damage you get from a Rad Storm is as dangerous as an emission in STALKER lol
"Kid in a fridge" is probably my least favorite quest in the series, just on the basis of how much it showcases how little of a fuck the writers at Bethesda give.
It's like some intern went "wouldn't this be a wacky and wholesome idea?" and the writers were like "yeah sure whatever I guess a child who has been in a dark, cramped space, alone and immobile with nothing to eat or drink for 200 years is going to be running and slinging wisecracks in a matter of seconds after being found and definitely would not be a grimdark example of an utterly mad individual stuck in a child's body whose bones and joints have practically withered down to nothing and whose body has melded in with this hundreds-year-old plastic due to immobility."
Bro this is fallout. Not fucking dark souls. Lmfao
@@sithisdawnsend2730 Yeah. This is Fallout. The game series that includes Fallout 2, a title in which a female player character _can be sexually assaulted_
Edit: Or how about Fallout 1, a title where the intro sequence includes a shot of the American government executing a Canadian national in the street.
Or how about every vault in the series, save 17 control vaults, where brutal experiments are done on unwitting citizens? Fallout's America is a dystopian hellscape and you're silly for thinking otherwise.
@@cheeto.burrito I mean yeah, but this dude went full on Miyazaki
Yeah that was truly immersion breaking, they went a step too far with that one. Honestly most of the dumb story stuff in Fallout 3 I didn't really notice until looking back. But that Fridge moment in 4 was I think the point where most people tabbed out to google because they were so confused. I thought there had to be some secret explanation to that Quest that I was missing, or my game was bugged.
@@cheeto.burrito or what about fallout, where you send several ghouls to space... and then it goes south.
new vegas: 5 ways of resolving a quest
4: 500 ways of shooting the quest´s gad guy.
ergo, fallout 4 as 100 times as much choice as new vegas
But 1 way of quests, right?
100 times not10
@@gabrieledavidepavan2459 lol right.
but new vegas has multiple ways to do every quest
Senator Armstrong Not to mention more options if you want to shoot the objective too. Especially with Gun Runners arsenal installed.
I know it's a bit late but you were slightly wrong about skill checks. There are exactly three in the entire game, all in the quest "Last Voyage of the U.S.S. Constitution". If you have nine intelligence, you can jurt rig the ship to skip three of five looting objectives in the quest. That's literally it though. One quest.
Well, that's also a SPECIAL check, but yes, they are the closest to a skill check the game has.
@@Creetosis Ah, I meant Special. If anything it's more insulting to only have those than to have none. Because then it isn't "We chose to remove it for gameplay reasons", it's "We couldn't be arsed."
His whole video could be summed up as "I don't actually understand how RPGs work but this game is a great RPG. Let me tell you why I'm smarter than you."
I was hyped for fallout 4 because I thought I was getting a follow up to new vegas. However F4 wasn't a sequel to new vegas or even a sequel to 3.
It was a sequel to skyrim with a mass effect dialogue wheel and base building added.
I thought I was getting a sequel to Skyrim and Fallout 3, which I was happy with. But it just seemed so average even by those standards. I loved Fallout 3 and Skyrim, Fallout 4 was so meh.
@@AVerySillySausage Just then you thought all the most important aspects of the game couldn’t get dumbed down more, they did. And things that were minor problems at most in fallout 3 got expanded upon for some reason.
@@The60FOVDemon Literally the only thing I prefer in Fallout 4 to FNV is the leveling system... and that certainly isn't without issue either
Nitpick I know, but mass effect had like 6 possible options and some of those were morality locked(paragon/renagade)
@@WalterTheWalrus i mainly just called it a mass effect dialogue wheel to imply how clear it was that ripping off ME was the whole idea behind fo4's (nice response, mean response, neutral response, ask question) dialogue system.
You're right in the fact the ME does it better and isn't hard locked to 4 responses every time.
"If lengthy discussion on a topic is something that scares you..."
If that 4:00:00 didn't tip them off already, I don't know what would.
"Gunplay is shit"
Whenever there's an issue with something in a piece of media, there's the in-unvierse reason and the meta reason. In pretty much every situation, the meta reason is the actual reason as to why something is the way it is, and people come up with an in universe one after the fact. In this case, the meta reason is that Bethesda has been working on games that involve swordplay for so long and now they're working on a game where the combat is centered around gunplay. It's unfamiliar territory for both them and their game engine so of course they're going to stumble pretty hard.
Now considering the in-universe reason, I can't quite buy it. Your character was given a gun on his 10th birthday. Why would he be unfamiliar with firearms? One of the possible outcomes for your character in the game's lore is to become a security officer in the vault, someone who would need to know how to properly use a gun. I understand it's possible that none of these become the case and your character might have not fires a single shot since his 10th birthday, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a possibility.
And a big problem is that your character simply does not know how to hold a gun properly. What's the in-universe explanation for that? Everyone in the vault doesn't know how to handle a fire arm? I can understand that upping your skill points making you more accurate, but why is a character able to be at level 100 guns and still not understand what an iron sight it? The only explanation is that Bethesda fucked up. They weren't up to par with implementing shooting mechanics. That doesn't have to mean the game is bad or that you can't like it for what it is, but coming up with a post hoc rationalization is desperate.
Like one of my criticisms of New Vegas that Fallout 4 (somewhat) solved was that an explosives character wasn't very viable. Explosives are pretty rare and tend to take a long time to utilize and switch between weapons so you're going to quickly find yourself defenseless and likely will get shot up after you use the two grenades in your inventory. Does this mean that the Courier is just heavy armed when it comes to switching weapons or there's some big lore reason as to why explosives are scarce in the Mojave? I'd say no. I'd say it's that Obsidian just didn't balance things for that build as well as they did for other builds. I don't have to make an excuse for that in order to justify saying New Vegas is still a great game, and MATN shouldn't have to make poor excuses for the gunplay.
"Junk and crafting"
By removing skill points, Fallout 4 has basically ruined this whole point for me. In order to get higher level crafting things, you need to level up and invest a point into a perk, but since all previous skills have been relegated to perks, I'm going to prioritize things that were once skills such as medicine or lockpicking over anything crafting related. So until I could actually use that fan to get materials that would allow me to make something worthwhile, the fan in Fallout 4 is functionally identical to the fans in Fallout 3 and New Vegas: They do not have a function.
But the fact is that Fallout at its core is supposed to be an RPG, and anything you add onto that, even if it's something you want the playerbase to focus more on, is not going to grab everyone's attention. I personally never enjoyed the base building mechanics in Fallout 4 and did them as little as possible. Maybe some things would have a good weight-value ratio, but that just brings everything back to how they were in the previous Fallouts.
So one half of crafting, the entire point of junk items, is locked behind a system that doesn't incentivize breaking away from certain builds and another half is a genuine gamble as to if people will like the mechanic in the first place. I'd honestly rather go into a building and see some (non immediately hostile) NPCs I can interact with since that's what I play Fallout for in the first place.
"Energy weapons"
MATN praises Fallout 4 for doing something previous Fallout games have done: allowing you to invest in energy weapons early. In New Vegas, you can have that as your tag skill or answer Doc Mitchell's questions in a way that will leave you with more skill points in energy weapons than any other means of attack. As a consequence, Doc Mitchell will hand you a laser pistol and some ammo. Granted, there's then a limiting factor based on how much ammo you have, as microfusion cells become more common later in the game, but I don't recall Fallout 4 being any different.
Hell, Fallout 4 starts out your character with a baton and a 10mm pistol, neither of which are energy weapons. You normally don't get your first energy weapon until you arrive at Concord outside the museum of freedom in which case you get the laser musket... a gimmicky piece of shit that's more likely to turn players off from energy weapons than anything. So he can say that Fallout 4 did energy weapons better than Fallout 1, but like many things, it's done something that New Vegas has already done but worse.
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Alright, now just for the record, if you have any stockpiles of explosives and are ready to blow up an orphanage in blind, abject rage fueled by blasphemous words that would cause the ears of sane men to bleed as if they were narrated from the very pages of the Necronomicon itself, now's the time because....
I like this thing in a video game that people have criticized.
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"Perks/traits/skills"
I'm of the opinion that it's more fun to be overpowered than underpowered in events where a balance can't be met. The problem with Fallout 4's system is that there's some things that were skills that people tend to use since it either makes the gameplay easier in some ways (such as medicine or speech) or allowed them more access to places (such as science and lockpicking) and for things that affect the gameplay in much more different ways, there were perks. By making only perks, and making it so that what was once skills are now perks, it severely limits what you can do.
Even worse, the perks are level capped. In the previous games, if someone wanted to be a master hacker, then can rush their science skill, but have to face the consequences of having every other skill remain pretty much the same. If they ever come across a lockpick or speech check that's too high for their count, it's touch luck but they might be able to hack a terminal they otherwise wouldn't. With Fallout 4's system, you can't rush any attribute and thus cannot specialize your character. MATN praises Fallout 4 for being set up in a way where you're guaranteed something every level, but if there's a goal you have in mind, like unlocking anything, you're worse off than in New Vegas because you have to wait until Bethesda says you're high enough of a level to access something.
Like take that cryogun at the beginning of the game. That's behind a lock that you cannot access until you've leveled up over a dozen times (I do not know the exact amount). In New Vegas or 3, it might take five or six levels and boom, it's yours. You couldn't convince the politest man in the universe to do you a favor or hit the broad side of a barn but you can unlock that thing and get your reward because that's how you built your character.
And the problem applies all over. Crafting? Speech? Pickpocketing? Anything? Sorry, you didn't kill enough radroaches and complete enough radiant quests. Come back when you've leveled up 8 times.
The funny thing is, for Skyrim, Bethesda implemented a system of passive leveling up of skills. If you sneak around a bunch, you'll become better at sneaking. If you use two handed weapons a bunch, you'll become better at that. While there are some flaws, that would have been a much better system than having everything be relegated to perks because as it stands, it's
First playthrough: I'm getting fucked in the ass by radroaches. I should use one of my levels to up my medicine skill.
Second playthrough: I'm getting fucked in the ass by radroaches. I should use one of my levels to up my medicine skill.
Third playthrough: I'm getting fucked in the ass by radroaches. I should use one of my levels to up my medicine skill.
And so on.
So rather than having a ton of unique and interesting perks that could alter how one goes about through the game, a bunch of the perk slots are being taken up by things that used to be separate. Less choice. Less freedom. Less fun.
--
Concerning your wheel analogy, a more direct comparison would be that the wheel was invented thousands of years ago. Since then we have improved upon it with things like better materials or structural additions like spokes that lessen the weight of the wheel but maintains its structural integrity. Fallout 4's system is basically ditching the wheel all together and just pushing the cart on the floor. They didn't improve upon things. They didn't experiment with and tinker with the skills. They didn't try to find a way to make it more in-line with the universe.
It's not like there's any improvement in that regard in Fallout 4. It's still "Hey you reached a level and put a point in a thing so now you're ever bettererest at it!" The only difference is that it's less fun because of all the waiting you have to do. Like it cannot be overstated how shitty Fallout 4's progression system is, and it's something MATN felt the need to defend.
"Game master is a dumb machine that's easy to exploit"
Is this really that big of a problem? More likely than not, you're going to learn how to minmax after at least one play through of the game. If it's still possible to play as a well rounded balanced character, then what's the problem if someone wants to be a bit overpowered for their own cheeky playthrough? Even if absolutely everyone runs Int 10 Chr 1 Speech 100, that's not in any way going to affect any of MATN's playthroughs. Every single other person for every single one of their playthroughs could be the ultimate shitter, and that will never be able to seep into his game and ruin his fun.
So the question is: How does Fallout solve the problem of "You can become a master locksmith because you dump your skill points into it even though you haven't picked a lock in your life"? Because "You can become a master locksmith because you dump a point in the lockpicking perk once a blue moon even though you haven't picked a lock in your life" is not it. In fact, as stated before, it's the same supposed problem that New Vegas and 3 has but far less fun.
This is supposed to be a video of "Fallout 4 is better than you think" but this whole section is just "Fallout 3/NV is worse than you think."
"Fallout 4 is the best at giving you the ability to play as a unique character in the early game"
Fallout 3: Hey, I wanna be a sneaky theif. I'm going to dump all my skill points in sneak and lockpicking and by level 10, I'll be able to break into just about anything.
Fallout new Vegas: Hey, I wanna be Clint Eastwood. I'm gonna dump all my points into guns and by level 10, I'll be the most rootist shootist bastard in the west.
Fallout 4: Hey I wanna be the master hacker. I'm gonna dump all my level perks into science.... wait. I can't. I have to wait until I'm at like level 12 before I can upgrade that again. Alright, maybe a scientist....who works with animals. Straight up Steve Irwin or Charles Darwin or some shit, so I'm gonna dump all my perk points into the one that affects animals and.... wait, that one is level locked beyond the first point too. Alright, maybe I'll focus on the settlement building so I'll dump all my level perks into the one that lets me set up good shops in my settlement and.... well shit, I can't advance that beyond a single level either. This fucking sucks. I can't specialize at anything early on!
"Clothes also help with specialization"
In New Vegas, certain outfits and consumables tied into skill points.
"If you watch a speedrun"
What universe does he come from where speedrunners are an accurate representation of the general player base? These fuckers are flying around the Mojave like air planes because one of them stumbled on a glitch that lets them do that and now the entire route has been changed.
"Contradictory demands of shooter and RPG fans"
There's 0 contradiction. I'd like an RPG that allows for lots of player choice in how I go about in the world and what factions I help and what the outcomes of my actions are... and for the times I choose to handle things combatively, I don't want the gameplay to be complete ass.
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"All we're going to see are super mutants, death claws, raiders, and the brotherhood of steel"
And radscorpions which continues to not make sense when they show up on the East Coast.
--
I don't see why he can't just say "Fallout 4 handles integrating factions into the world better than New Vegas in the sense that you can find them operating in the game's map without you being directly involved." And then he could go on to give a more in depth explanation. The statement itself isn't even that controversial since it's not discussing the quality of writing of the factions or even the quality of the factions themselves, just that you can find some members running around.... well, you can find the Brotherhood of Steel running around.
But if I were to guess, I assume this is more of a way to prevent criticism. He's out there saying controversial things and he's gonna get attacked for it! You don't wanna be one of the evil hoards sharpening their pitchforks and attacking him, right? Well then maybe you should keep that disagreement to yourself because he's no doubt getting turbo attacked by all the nasty fan boys who simply cannot stand that he has a differing opinion.
"I know this is going to be controversial, but hear me out: my opinion."
"Now I'm going to go against the grain/consensus here, but I think I have a good reason for it: my opinion."
"Now it's the general view that X, but I don't think it's as clear cut as everyone has made it out to be."
All of those accomplishes the same thing, acknowledgement that what he's about to say is going to be contentious, but gives the people he's arguing against the benefit of the doubt that they might be persuaded to think more like him after he lays down an argument. He wouldn't immediately be associating them with die hard closed minded angry mobs who'd burn him at the stake for heresy.
And while on the subject, for his fans, if someone has made a video called "Fallout 4 is better THAN YOU THINK", it is not just his opinion. He is engaging in the viewer's views and trying to persuade them to change their mind, even if just a little. He's citing facts about the game and forming arguments as to why they're a good thing. If this is just his opinion, why not call it "Why I like Fallout 4"? Why bring what "YOU THINK" into it at all?
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"The Minutement don't want you to do anything. They want you to talk to the settlements and ask what they need."
So not only is that specifically the minutement asking you to do something, but the quests always end up being "Hey we're getting our cheeks clapped by these ghouls/raiders/supermutants/roadroaches and need you to kill them. Outside of the fact that the Brotherhood of Steel are technologically superior, how are these quests any different from "Show no mercy"?
Like it could have been more political quests. Handle disputes between different settlements, some that might specialize in essential resources. When you build the settlements up more, more people start to join the minute men and you see them actually patrolling around killing super mutants and stuff. Maybe things in general start to cost less at that point since the commonwealth is safer in general and trade is much easier.
Unfortunately no. If he really wants "Ludo narrative harmony", how about the game tone down the amount of enemies that appear around every single corner. Why the fuck would anyone settle anywhere in the Commonwealth when they take one step and there's a super mutant running at you with a mininuke he somehow found, and then you go around the corner and there's a bunch of ghouls rising from a grave site (Bethesda just realized they're sort of like zombies and went all in I guess) and when you run down a block, there's a raider encampment and when you turn around another corner, a mirelurk is ready to snap you in two.
How is anything actually supposed to get done in this world when it's so damn hostile? New Vegas has the road past quarry junction as the main path people took, and it was only a recent development according to some NPCs that deathclaws settled in the place. The other roads are a bit more dangerous but the danger tends to be spread out so there's still enough plausible deniability that someone who's at least sort of well armed would be able to get through.
Then you have places like Bunker Hill where rather than settle in literally any of the buildings surrounding the obelisk, they all decide to erect a wall around the monument and live in open shanty shacks. Don't go in any of the buildings with mostly in-tact windows and walls and ceilings that would shield you from the elements, just sleep on some driftwood.
Like they would actually be saving themselves on supplies if instead of building a wall completely surrounding them, they decided to wall off the streets and use the still standing buildings as part of the barrier. For all the small things he notices that provides this "Ludo-narrative harmony", there's dozens of major examples like this that are the case because Bethesda built the game around combat. You have this whole city area, what can you do? Well outside of diamond city you can shoot some raiders, shoot some mirelurks, shoot some super mutants, shoot some ghouls, shoot some super mutant dogs...is that really the best they could come up with?
Anyways, this was a good video. You've made a lot of good points and caught mistakes that I didn't in my own response.
Thank you! I haven't heard enough people criticize F4's level system and how it forces generalization. Another thing I noticed is that it basically locks in your character decisions between level 12 and 50. You pick a perk because you want the effect and that means you probably want the next level to improve the effect. And since almost every perk rank opens at different levels, you have to choose between buying an entirely new perk or getting the next rank. As a result, you basically have your entire build planned out by level 12 because every level up until 50 is earmarked for a newly unlocked rank.
I disagree with the point on gunplay. Bethesda also works on FPSs like DOOM and wolfenstein. The major issue isn’t that they know swords more than guns, but that most RPGs have much more to focus on than combat. Iirc, F4’s combat was helped designed by the same one who made DOOM which is one of the reasons its gunplay is actually playable. That in turn took resources away from RPG elements.
I literally have a mod that lets me start at a predetermined level, I choose like 30 and slap all the perks into crafting, hacking and lockpicking. That way, I can bypass the frustrating level-locking, and get to the best part of the game:
The quest and weapon mods I installed.
@@Alex-0597 Creetosis mentioned it a bit in his video as well.
If you want to get technical about what level you're actually on, I'd say you're perpetually stuck at level 1-10 due to enemies level scaling. While Bethesda probably thought it was a good idea that raiders, super mutants, and the like get stronger and have more powerful variants running around the more you level up as that ensures there's still a lot of challenge in the game, the only actual outcome is that you lose a sense of progression because it's going to take the same amount of bullets to kill a raider in Concord when you're level 50 as when you're level 2.
Compare that with many other games such as Pokemon where when you go back to an area you were at early in the game, you can wipe the floor with the enemies there. Suddenly that pokemon that was giving you such a hard time early on is now a one hit KO. That's a sense of progression.
I know it's probably a cliche to say they should have done what New Vegas did, but that game had a few "fuck around and find out" enemies that could give you trouble even at level 50 on the map in specific areas, so there was a sort of ecosystem to the Mojave.
You can both enjoy Fallout 4 and at the same time recognize that is not a RPG.
Bizarre how he mentions midmaxing being an issue in New Vegas when Fallout 3 and 4’s dice roll speech check system allows the player to clear any speech check regardless of speech level… Essentially breaking the conversational pacing of the experience and allowing the player to skip content because of an exploitation of luck.
No, no, you see it's fine when Bethesda does it.
@Varsancton with the fo3 and 4 system a 1 charisma no speech character can still sucede every check in the game via savescuming, with the NV system a 1 charisma 100 speech represents a naturally unlikeable person that has studied rhetoric and oratory enough to become excellent at it so they can still convince you in spite of a poor first impression.
your SPECIAL are your natural aptitudes, skills are the things you choose to study and train, higher natural aptitude means it will take less effort (fewer points allocated on levelup) to master the skill but you can still get there in spite of low natural talent if you train hard enough.
@@Creetosis MATN may be wrong, but at least he's good-faith and well-intentioned about it. Hard to take criticism seriously when you're being an absolute jerk about it. I get no sense of pleasant intention from you, not even a drop of respect out of your presentation. He's out to make the world seem better, you're out to fucking depress everyone. Nothing will ever be good enough, you elitist prick.
@@Mega-Brick Right, I'm the bad guy for pointing out someone's dishonest bullshit. You can lie and twist the facts, misrepresent the content and use bad faith fallacious arguments and it's all fucking fine and dandy, _because you're being positive,_ but anyone who reasonably, fairly, accurately and honestly points out the dishonest bullshit is the villain.
A lie to make people happy makes you a good guy, telling the truth makes you the bad guy. What a fucking joke.
As someone who plays survival difficulty f04 without save-scumming capability, a 1 charisma character = no speech checks passed
"You have to look so closely at the environments for resources!"
*walks into room, mashes E, walks out*
G A M E P L A Y
Lol, matn is the type of player that just hoards random items and has to navigate through a mess of an inventory and wonders why he cant find his favorite weapon
Even better if you mark all your components for search so EVERYTHING gets highlighted.
you end up getting 3 bobby pins a nuka cola bottle and like a note very much good resources
>Enter room
>Kill everything in glorious melee combat
>Mash the loot button
>Teleport to base
>Run from Preston Garvey to the bench
>Deposit all Junk button
>Once every three or four dungeons throw all the crap weapons in the pile
>Teleport to next dungeon
Haven't watched your entire video yet (4 hours, what a mad lad!), but I agree on your assessment of what I said vs. what MATN straw-manned me to say. I'm not a sicko who wants to kill kids, I'm an RPG player who doesn't like being railroaded into a scenario with disabled combat and immortals. Bethesda was likely trying to dodge controversy and perhaps an AO rating, but in doing so they made an incredibly linear sequence which made me want to quit the game when I first played, that's all. Nobody FORCED them to make a camp full of immortal boy scouts, that was a decision they made.
Oh hey, wasn't expecting you to even find this video, let alone comment! Thank you! And yeah, if they really, _really_ wanted a town of immortal children, they could have put it literally anywhere else in the game and _not_ force you to earn their trust in the main quest (though, that would only solve _part_ of the problem.) What bugged me was just how much he took you out of context, too, to the point of applying your quote to an entirely different part of the game and ignores the substance of what you said. He does something similar with Hbomberguy twice later on in the video, too, referring to facing Autumn and following Liam Neeson, in which Hbomb explained quite clearly that previous antagonists were fleshed out better and were a culmination of many of the things you had to face during the games and following Liam Neeson around the map was a matter of mindlessly following quest markers without having to really think about how you approach and deal with the next objective. All three times he directly quotes someone else, he ignores the point they were actually making in order to strawman the arguments and that's the kind of thing that leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
It was basically an annoying Mad Max 3 reference they turned into an integral part ic the main story.
If they made interacting with them an optional part of a quest, I think there wouldnt have been nearly as many complaints.
Man, I'm having some serious Mandela Effect with this original comment. I could have sworn Indigo commented on the Fo3 video and not this one, but the UA-cam Studio is showing the Fo4 video.
Are you talking about the lamp light cave settlement that only has kids in it?
Because you can skip ever going there.
How so? As far as I've seen, it's impossible to skip unless you're not doing the main story.
The amount of mods for FO4 that most people would call "must-haves" are staggering. The level to which i have modded that game to make it a good and entertaining time is in itself proof of how ridiculous the base game is. I will admit that after A LOT of mods, i have now made a damn good tactical shooter out of it. Fixing the writing is still impossible of course. So as a Fallout game, its still complete trash.
Enderal (the Skyrim mod) is a far better game than anything made by Bethesda since FO3 (I haven't played Morrowind and Oblivion, so I can't compare it to them). The biggest issue with Enderal is that it shares an engine with Skyrim... Similarly, the biggest issue with New Vegas is that it shares the engine with FO3...
On that note, all obsidian games are full of technical issues, I find it hilarious how some people (like Razorfist, love his stuff, but he has quite a few shit takes) will disregard them because of it, nevermind Avellone's phenomenal writing, but they are perfectly okay with Bethesda's games having tons of issues. Similarly with CDPR and Witcher 3 (on release) and CP2077.
@@WildBandit300 I'd switch "near unplayable" with "barely playable". It's a glass half full/half empty situation, but I think in this case the half full is more important, since both Skyrim, FO3 and FO4 are complete experiences. Lackluster, half-assed, full of technical issues, but complete.
Indeed. In order to get the game out of the dumpster fire and back into something playable and entertaining takes a whole ton of mods. It's ridiculous and offputting to have to redownload and sort dependencies at every reinstall of the game because the base game can't stand on its own in the slightest.
new vegas is the same. less so, for sure, but gamebryo engine games nearly always ship unfinished
@@carolinasleeper4484 Please refer to my second comment in this thread to which I add: New Vegas is absolutely complete and replayable in its current state, the content has the required depth. For New Vegas you will find that mods on the Nexus page are mostly new content, minor fixes, and one major overhaul. By comparison, if you search for Skyrim mods you will find a lot of major overhauls... New Vegas is not unfinished, it lacks polish.
"You can't level up and open a new lock immediately because you lack the skill points" - The game explicitly gives you magazines (usually near locked objects) to temporarily boost your lock picking skill by less than a full level. Can he put two and two together and to the intent of this system? No, of course not.
Damn next you'll tell me there's even a perk to make those skill boosters more effective that you can take early? Nah game bad bc you don't get to increase lockpick by 25 per level
He does it repeatedly in almost every play through
@@spectralpyrewas that the intent in the context of the argument?
@brekenwallar8144 im not sure what context ya missed, but yeah sarcasm aside the not being able to level things up a full 25 isnt that bad with all the tools you get.
Fusion cores feel like a game play idea to balance out power armor. But in testing they were told it's critical to raise the drop rate for them which trivialized fusion cores. So now power armor is just a choice of what HUD you want.
Most my fallout 4 runs result in my having so many fusion cores, I usually could use power armour as basic armour back like in the other games Lmao
I mean why did we need them at all? Never mattered before. Now to be fair, I would horde them like nuts and then have late game mayhem and fun.
Fallouts are not games that were designed to be balanced..
and wanting to balance classic RPG is a stupid idea anyway
Power armor in the first two games are described as ultimate weapons capable of being functional for a whole century, they are law of the strongest's embodiment
@@loc27gth44 also, in 'realtors comparing a generator to an engine - a vehicle is a few hundred kgs or tonnes of steel, and can get a few hours out of a large tank of fuel, or the same fuel could run a generator feeding a few kilowattsimilarly for a few hours.
The power armour is a few hundred kgs of steel to shift about, fusion cores last a few ingame hours, but can seemingly power a few kilowatts of lighting, idling machinery etc. for over 2 centuries and still have enough juice to run armour for a few hours?
the funny thing is, he is completely wrong about the perk thing. there are way more amazing perks in new vegas than one character could have. even in my disgustinly optimized playthroughs, where I only pick the best perks, I can only be absolutely overpowered in a very specialized role. just an example: I have three different builds that are just focused on sniping.
one uses "atomic!" and other AP boosting perks to get the most shots possible in vats, in combination with the "eye for an eye" perk to get +60% damage. this ends up making a character that is extremely slow and has terrible accuracy but can one shot every enamy n the game if I score a sneak hit, which is made possible with slow mo-chem turbo and spread reducing steady.
another has completely neglected AP, but instead focuses on criticals and having the highest shot rate. it´s made to be the most reliable, fast-acting sniper possible. this basically turns the game into a fast-pace FPS
and the third is built to be absolutely accurate and uses heavy weaponry like miniguns or plasma casters that has no business being used at long range to melt targets at the edge of render distance.
all of these builds are min-maxed to hell with the same goal, yet they all play completely different because even when all perks in the game are available, you can only get 25. and between these three, only like 7 perks overlap between any two of them, 4 at most between all three. this is simply a testament to how great the perks in new vegas are.
all of this is just for sniper-type gameplay and I haven´t even made every possible build for THAT. i haven´t even gotten to min-maxing other builds besides these and melee builds(which admittedly have much less variety) I am absolutely not exxagerating when I say I have never made even vagely the same build twice in thirteen complete and 5 ongoing playthroughs of this game. that´s how much perk synergy matters in NV.
edit: sadly the same cannot be said for fallout 3. even though you get 30 perks instead of 25, there are only 58 nperks in the entire game with add-ons that do something other than raise skills or modify karma. less than 40 of those you would even consider for an optimized playthrough. and because most of them have very low requirements, it´s entirely possible to get all the best perks on one playthrough. I know because that´s exactly what I did on my first playthrough. I now have a character that is good at everything, has no flaws, all skills at 100, all special at 10 and all that without picking any skill perks. Jack of all trades, master of all. I´m never going to be able to make a different opitimzed playthrough because because this is THE ONLY optimal build you can make.
3 does the exact same thing that he said new vegas does terribly.
In Fallout 4 there are about 130 unique effects that are granted by perks.
@@kingdonut8272 i made no statement about fallout 4. I have not played fallout 4. I just said that matn's comment about the new vegas perks was wrong.
Edit: perks that only increase the base effectiveness of something(more damage with guns/fists/other weapons, better protection with armor etc. Aren't unique. Same goes for any perks performing functions that used to be covered by skills. I don't know how many fo4 perks this applies to, but it's something for you to keep in mind
Edit edit: I looked it up and there are a measely 83 perks you can get from levelling up in fo4(yes, extra ranks are still the same perk) in fo4 with all expansions. A lot of them are just "do more damage with x weapon grouping" or "unlock the next tier of crafting recepies" most of them are simple number bonuses. quantity does not equal quality. And I wholeheartedly disagree with the underhanded incinuation that fo4 has a more in-depth perk system than fnv.
@@cillianthestupendous6093 Well, most of the perks that just flat increase damage also give unique benefits like staggering enemies or disarming them. I didn't count the basic resistance increasing ones, though, since they're basically worthless anyways.
@@cillianthestupendous6093 I never said that there were 130 perks. I said that there were 130 unique effects granted by perks. Also, your argument of them just being "do more damage with x weapon grouping" is incorrect, since they give unique effects at each level, and saying that that they're just "unlock the next tier of crafting recipes" is not a simple increase. The new tiers offer extra benefits to your weapons, like adding a recon scope that marks enemies through walls, or a targeting system to your missile launcher that literally guides the missiles to their targets, or making your minigun fire much slower, but deal more damage per shot, saving ammo, or turning your fat man into a MIRV, or making your shotgun automatic. Seriously, there are _so_ many ways you can upgrade just a combat shotgun alone.
@@kingdonut8272 that's no change to your character. It just increases the pool of weapons you have access to. Nothing about getting more weapons is unique. They cojld have done the exact same thing by scattering blueprints throughout the game world and it would have made no difference.
Also on the subject of leveling. What MATN claims to be an improved and more rewarding character progression system is actually the very opposite. Not just because of all the obvious reasons that other mentioned here in the comments but because of how level scaling works in FO4. Not only does the game spawn more powerful enemies as you level it also scales their HP based on the players level. Problem is that your level is going up constantly but only a handful of perks actually directly contribute to your damage, so unless you are intentionally min-maxing combat perks your character will actually get weaker the higher your level is because the HP scaling only checks your character level. It does not care if you invested in settlement or crafting perks. Your level is the only relevant factor in the equation.
And even if you were to min-max a top tier combat character you will still hit the same problem just later as the ceiling for damage is far lower than the ceiling for HP scaling(which is technically infinite) so by design the higher level you are the weaker is your character(relative to the enemies you encounter).
So if anything its FO4 that is deceiving the player with its level ups as pretends they are a net gain when in fact they can and will become a net loss.
Not to mention if a player is dedicated enough and gets all the perks then there is no point in leveling up outside of making your HP go up
@@thetrophygamer3606 yep the reason why I install skill and perks overhaul mods
The leveling system in FO4 is beyond stupid. The only major choice you make during the whole process is "Am I going to sneak or am I going to use VATS?". Damage perks, lockpicking\hacking perks and crafting perks are all necessary to engage with the basic systems of the game. Getting the most out of these perks is expensive too so EVERY SINGLE non challenge character will ALWAYS spend their first 30-50 levels focusing on these perks. And because the game is so shallow to begin with you'll quickly find that attempting to create an interesting, specialized build will just bar you from engaging with what minimal token complexity Bethesda tried to inject.
at least its not oblivion :)
Because the entire point of the skill points was to do the "boring" damage increase, so that perks would do the unique stuff. But since Fallout 4 removed them, now perk slots have to be wasted on damage increase and everyone has to take them if they want to counteract the health increase of the enemies.
A roleplay Character that could have 1 Charisma and 100 speach is a person that is not found attractive but knows there way around words and how to convice others of something.
Literally Tyrion Lannister
Me irl
100 speech 1 CHA is literally Grima Wormtongue.
Like, these types that everyone finds creepy innately but are REAL good at honeyed words *do* exist so I dont know where this complaint is rooted...
Do you know what the word charisma means?
And the same applies with the rest, you have natural gifts and knowledge and experience in a certain skill. Just because I am legally blind (low perception) doesn't mean I can't accumulate experience dealing with locks or knowledge about how they work.
Not because I am bad at math or have memory issues (Low intelligence) I wouldn't be able to repair guns I'm familiar with or hack terminals which I only need to learn the tricks to break in the console and guess a password.
2:55:27 Being OP and minmaxing is bad and you should feel bad.
Also Many: Praises a system that allows you to essentially do the same OP stuff but worse
Well. That is what double standards are after all.
Yeah isnt that interestting, first he's like being able to minmax/powergame is a failure of game design and the hyperspecialised 1CHR 100SPEECH is a monstrosity. When talking about F4 suddenly super minmaxing ludicrous builds and pumping SPECIAL to 20 is awesome. And he complained that SPECIAL was too generous and now gushes how you can get STR to 30 and thats awesome...
@@legion999 It's always the mark of a great argument when you immediately counter yourself in the same presentation.
I always find it hilarious, because people do this a lot, if you pay attention.
@@legion999 The difference is that in f4 theres tons of different possible builds that allow you to play very differently and not have a singular best option or useless attribute. In something like F1 you ALWAYS want high intelligence and high aqility if you don't want a massive challenge. F4 lets you build a powerful character around many different options
@@VadelmahilloVideotuotanto my first ever NV build was without any knowledge of the game and was very low intelligence and luck and very high charisma and perception I found the game to be an absolute blast my character was a sneaky rogue sort
Your “you HAVE To do this or it will be hard” argument is plain dumb
You can play how ever you want in all of the fallout games pretty much any build is viable
Honestly my biggest problem with Fallout 4, is how little I used my brain to actually think about things when playing. Playing a game like Disco Elysium was like an awakening. Morrowind even more so.
Not gonna lie though.
Games where I, the player, roll 1 Intelligence, 10 Luck are sometines incredible
I always used to make fun of morrowboomers, but having played Morrowind (which transformed into my favourite Elder Scrolls game within 2 hours of playtime), I now realize that they're right.
_they're right._
@@JRexRegisWe Morrowind enjoyers are superior to all others, just as the dark elves are superior to filthy N'wah!
(Not serious.)
2:16:34 I also wanna point out a bit of missed dishonesty. MATN levels up to gain 14 skill points and frames this as the maximum amount he could be gaining from a high intelligence build. He chooses 14 because it specifically leaves him at the 39 point threshold where a magazine can't be used to boost to 50 lockpick. However as someone who plays exclusively science and intelligence characters, I can say with confidence that 17 skill points per level is very achievable, which means at level 3 with a magazine you can absolutely pick that average lock.
He also forgot about Mentats
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 chems...
An addendum to my previous comment: Fallout 4 is also more of a "looter shooter" than an RPG, much like the Borderlands games. Some people (mostly people who DON'T typically play RPG's) can't tell the difference.
Yeah seems like anyone who plays tabletop RPG and isn’t thinking about the very literal meaning of those words (role playing game) would say this because if you have the right attitude fallout 4 is undeniably a role playing game that has some bad story elements, doesn’t mean you can’t roleplay
@@brekenwallar8144 I don't bother with tabletop games. I only play video games. Maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself next time so you don't confirm to others that you're an idiot. Try to avoid making assumptions in the future. I'll stick to REAL RPG's such as Fallout: New Vegas. I also plan to get other real RPG's such as the Pathfinder video games, Pillars of Eternity, & the Wasteland series.
@@brekenwallar8144 you can roleplay in any game, Gmod isn't an RPG just because the 1942rp server exists.
Hey Creetosis. I wanted to throw in a personal anecdote in regards to "power gaming" in tabletop RPG's (TTRPG) versus in video games. Not a "critique" of your video, just some food for thought.
I've been running tabletop games for close to 5 years now, with my current game going for close to a year now, and I've seen a number of instances where one of the players in my games built their character in a way that could be seen as "power-gaming" or "min-maxing". Usually the concern is that if one player character (PC) is too powerful in some areas (or too weak) in comparison to the other PC's in the group, and whether that can affect how the dynamics of the game will affect the characters involved. In general, it is not really a problem because in most cases (usually depending on the rule system being used) it just makes a character really good or really bad in ways that don't severely damage the game, but there are ways where it can severely damage the balance of the game when it comes to the rest of the party. I have 2 examples that can illustrate both of these from my game experiences.
1) Where power-gaming can be fun and interesting:
In my current game there is a skill for gambling. The high the skill value, the higher the PC's roll will be against a determined check value, and thus the better chance of beating that check value. One of my players built his PC to always max his gambling skill anytime he levels up. Currently his gambling skill is ridiculously high, but it means that other skills suffer. Essentially all this does for his PC is that when he partakes in a game of chance he has a very high chance of success and will get very high returns. If there was a situation where the entire party was gambling, chancres high that he is the only one who would do very well as a result of this. This is certainly the possibility that the party use him exclusively in those circumstances to maximize their chance of success, but I would see that as the party recognizing the strengths of the different members and using them accordingly, which is something that I try to heavily encourage, and reward when I can, because it makes the game more enjoyable.
2) Where power-gaming goes horribly wrong
in the very first campaign that I ran I had a player that wanted to use a character built with a "homebrew" class based on Warhammer 40K Lore. Homebrew basically meaning that it isn't in the published rule book and is created by people who play the game, but has to be given approval for use by the game master. Homebrew stuff is used very frequently in TTRPG's, though will depend largely on the game master and the group. This class would create a character that had very high bonuses to hit with weapons, bonuses to damage inflicted on enemies, reduction to damage inflicted by enemies and a very high allotment of hit points. The flip side, was that his other skills (social, bargaining, knowledge, crafting, etc.) were at their minimum values. So he was essentially building a character for just fighting and nothing else. Being a n00b game master the trade-offs seemed reasonable and I said OK. What i didn't realize is that in non-combat portions of the game his character was not as good as the other PC's (which is no big deal, that isn't uncommon for combat oriented characters), while in combat encounters, he could deal at least twice as much damage to enemies as the other PC's, had about a 75% higher change of hitting enemies, he would take roughly 60% of the damage that the other PC's would, and had twice as many hit points as the other PC's. Essentially, in combat he had a power level probably on par with 3 - 4 other PC's combined, at a minor cost to his non-combat skills. As a result of this, I could have combat encounters that go one of three ways. 1) enemies that are at a similar level to the other PC's so they are roughly matched, while this PC is in literally no danger at all. 2) the enemies are a good challenge for the other PC's and they are in danger, but the other PC is still a step above the enemies and in no serious danger. 3) the enemies will give the other PC a challenge, but be so dangerous to the rest of the party that it's basically a suicide encounter for them.
Now as a final thought on the second scenario, having PC's who are heavily leaned towards combat versus other things isn't a problem, but this particular instance was so cartoonishly egregious that I'm convinced it was starting to ruin the game for the other players. Luckily that campaign died after only 3 session though.
I think in a cooperative setting, like with TTRPG's power gaming can be a concern, but aside from the insane examples generally doesn't ruin the balance of the game.
In a video game setting, especially when you are talking about single-player video games, at that point power gaming is basically not a thing that is really an issue. Partly because the game is not needing to be reasonably balanced between multiple PC's, but also because the fun of a single-player game is not strictly tied to how much of a challenge it is. To be honest, most of the time Fallout games are not a challenge, beyond the first two, but they are still fun.
I think the primary issue that Jon is confusing balance within cooperative games often having a strong effect on how fun the game is, versus balance in single-player games which is not directly related to whether the game is fun.
There can definitely be balance issues in single player games. XCOM EU is a game where you control soldiers that can be four different classes, each with very different abilities. One of them, Sniper, was horrifically unbalanced. They could shoot any enemy they had line of sight on, even if only their squadmates could see, with no maximum range and an accuracy bonus the farther away the target was. It took away a lot of challenge when a soldier can shoot basically any enemy for a ton of damage with little chance of missing. And it encouraged strategies where you inched forwards one guy to reveal enemies, then shot them all with snipers. And if you didn't do that, you were deliberately not engaging with game mechanics, because everything was working as intended.
The sequel fixed that by removing the accuracy bonus as well as giving a max range. And also buffing other soldiers to make them more competitive. But I cannot go back and play the first game anymore because of how much better snipers are than your other soldiers.
"Unique from the very early game" only in Fallout 4 is a pretty awful argument. I've been playing through New Vegas using 4 different characters, going back and forth every so often for variety exactly because they play so wildly differently. Even my two characters that largely focus on melee combat have a different feel- one is extremely tanky and powerful, but is constantly thwarted by locks and computers because hes got like 3 int and doesnt have many skill points to work with, wants to play nice but usually has to resort to utter savagery, and follows orders unquestioningly. The other is basically "be gay, do crimes" the character, is a glass canon who can just as easily kill in one hit as he can go down in one hit, and is a borderline anarchist while generally being a good guy to whoever he sees as the "little guys." Are the min maxed? Yep. Are they optimized? God no. They each manage to be at times frustrating to play, but that makes areas where they shine all that much better.
On the other hand, I do think that Fallout 4 added some interesting enemies, particularly in far harbor. Assaulttrons, mirelurk queens, gulpers, anglers, fog crawlers, blood bugs, sting wings, and synths are all pretty neat and at times terrifying. I think my favorite addition in far harbor was the gigantic hermit crabs that used old trucks for shells- like that struck me as genuinely pretty cool and creative creature design.
A singular perk (Wild Wasteland) in NV offers enough bonkers shit and changes to content to warrant a replay, and that's just a fucking Easter-Egg Perk...
Far Harbor is the only good part of F4, although its more to do with dialogue and characters imo
@@nillynush4899 Also the solution to the issues that the stupid "kid in the fridge" quest, among others, introduces. Every solution FNV handed them Bethesda ignored to remake mistakes that Fallout 2 made.
@@legion999 The first time there was a consequence to my taking too long and a guy died over it made me love Far Harbor. There was an actual goddamn consequence to my messing up. I missed out on stuff even. I left it in purposely because it was such an unexpected and impactful concept in a game devoid of them. (Even if there were no *long term* ramifications really, a drop of water is a ambrosia to the thirsty)
As a religious D&D player, it's very obvious that he doesn't understand how dice probability and TTRPGs work
He being MATN, not Creetosis
Hello fellow religious DnD player
I find that is the case with most people arguing those points. Like they know the concept of TTRPGs but they have no idea how they actually work.
@@NewbOoyNS I've done my research as I'm trying to start a cyberpunk group with some friends and co-workers. He completely ignores that the "probability" isn't just a dice roll you also add any relevant stat or skill as raw numbers. It becomes less about chance if you min max since you have such an absurdly specialized character even a roll of 2 can be a winning throw. This also ignores that every character even npcs ran by the GM must do rolls to determine their actions so dice roll+ stat or skill vs dice roll+ stat or skill sounds far more balanced than just a dice roll determining everything.
@@ralcogaming7674 Modern D&D is very based around this, considering you have things like advantage, special maneuver dice, feats like Lucky... there's like a dozen ways to put a roll into your favor with a carefully crafted build.
Fallout 4 is the definition of modders carrying games once again
MATN calling Charisma 1, Speech 100 an “exploit” is so wrong and dumb lol. Charisma refers to a characters natural likeability and genetic predisposition to being a leader, while speech refers to a LEARNED set of skills related to the use of language. Someone can absolutely be an uncharismatic, unlikeable person genetically but through study and practice gain a masterful grasp of the use of language
Charisma 1 Speech 100 always made sense to me as I could see courier as someone cunning, cold and probably mentally impaired, but with enough smarts to exploit people through knowledge of psychology. Even the process of leveling up Speech with low CHR made sense, because I had to FORCE it(via spending more points), instead of naturally being good at it. Low CHR also locks you out of CHR related skills, so its not like you get ALL the benefits of CHR out of speech.
Perfect explanation.
Tho it does make you wonder how they can fix it.
Potentially some NPC would just not talk with you or think you're less "trustworthy" if you have too low Charisma, aka meaning high Charisma is very preferred for Speech oriented character.
Also they should totally return the ability of having a companion per 2 Charisma points.
@@Poppenheimer69 Wait are there any Charisma based perks???
@@danielsurvivor1372 yeah, not a lot though, if I remember correctly one is animal friend and another is ferocious loyalty.
@@danielsurvivor1372 some dude already made a mod that compares your charisma and NPCs CHR/INT when you go for speech checks. It doesn't REPLACE the skills used for the check, just considers CHR on top.
1:16:20 there's a laser pistol in Doc Mitchell's house right at the start of the game. Theres also a free plasma rifle in the coyote cave just outside of goodsprings
On a side note, maybe its just me, but energy weapons in Fallout 4 seemed weaker compared to normal guns.
They feel lackluster. It's because of the resistances system and the merging of all gun skills into perks based on firing modes or pistol/rifle. There needed to be a laser/plasma weapons perk in Fallout 4. Maybe not 25% - 100% scaling like the other perks, but these weapons needed something more. But one of the absolute best non-radiation weapons is Maxson's gatling laser. Other than that they just suck.
They are AWFUL. I went from playing an energy weapons build in FNV, annihilating everything in sight, to endlessly plinking away with a fully upgraded plasma rifle. Once you hit a certain level (like 50ish?) they give the enemies so much health that combat stops being enjoyable and just becomes a slog. Especially if you’re in power armour, because enemy damage does not scale up as much as their health, so there’s no way most enemies can possibly threaten you
@@BlueSkullFish The biggest threat that FO4 enemies pose is “how much ammo and or time am I willing to waste in a fight”
@@miloflaze literally. A significant portion of play time is me fast travelling settlement to settlement to buy 4 fusion cells and 1 railgun round
The ONLY energy weapon worth using is the laser musket, it's insanely OP since bethesda thought literal multiplication damage was balanced, so take whatever it's damage value is and multiply it by however many cranks you use, (can't remember if it's 6 or 8 as max) but with the right perks that gun is a one hit killer even through to the end game. God help us if it can have the unending effect for infinite cranks.
2:43:30
And there's the crux of the matter, John is arguing that the unless you specifically design your SPRPG so it can't be minmaxed, or at least so it's extremely difficult the design is crap. Which can also be understood as, "Min-Maxers shouldn't get to have their own fun." which is ridiculous.
Underrail and Age of Decadence are two of the best RPGs released in the last decade and they nearly require you to specialize and min-max to get the most out of it. But they also have varied quest with a variety of outcomes afected by your actions and choice and almost every situation can be resolved without a bloodshed.
Age of Decadence especially since it doesn't have random combat ecounters. In fact I fully recomend it, it's a diplomacy focused game and you can talk, intimidate, bargain or bullshit your way out of almost every situation.
To anyone that thinks min-maxing is bad, why even have stat based progression in the first place? Yes, when you play an RPG like this, you should have a general build in mind and try to play that way.
I've played mobile rpgs that almost required min-maxing, one called toram comes to mind where I realized after level 100 that if you went from one sword to two your stats were worthless, you had to respec into agility instead of dex or you weren't doing enough damage. I maxed out my agility the next moment and had 1 in most other stats.
Idk how skills confused him. In fallout since the originals, I've ALWAYS seen the skills from 1 to 100 as a percentage.
Thinking roughly 1 meaning you've literally no experience in something, 25 meaning someone who has a passing knowledge or is dabbling, 50 being half as good as something can be, competent like someone who has a bachelors in a subject, 75 to be someone who can be considered a professional in that field specifically, and 100 as someone who has a masters degree,/PHd level skill in something, plus their own innovation going into it.
It's not that hard to conceptualize and it's easy to guess how much of a benefit you get around those thresholds
I genuinely can't understand how dense you have to be to not get something as fundamentally simple as a skill from 0-100.
@@thebreadbringer I think he understands it perfectly fine but acted ignorant to further his point
How could it be a percentage o 1 to 100 if 100 isnt even the cap and in a lot of cases you actually need skills above 100 to pass certain skill checks and even hit your shots with decent percentages?
And it is confusing because the originals should come with a manual like all the old RPG's used to
@@d.p.mlsgnrqtrsratm5793 in 1 and 2 it was displayed as a percentage to define how you rated to average. 100% meant you were 100% familiar with that skill... but you could train a skill up to 300% suggesting meaning you are 3x mastered in that skill (being basicly the best in t he world at when with a skill at 300). i was disapointed that new vegas didnt bring back quite as much emphasis on skills but i guess you cant make an FPS like that. fallout was more fun as a tabletop simulator where the computer is the DM.
it's literally "big number gud", how does one not understand that
I think i almost had a stroke when he said the skill points had to go
Okay i thought that was bad but him saying the fallout 4 factions were better than new vegas killed me
@@danielbou-assy446 they're worse than Fallout 3's factions. They're just raiders in different clothes and weapons. The only one that's "different" is the Gunners.
@@kylehyde215CA they're literally just the talon company
Why
at least theres Horizon
He seems to have played quite a bit of New Vegas so I can't understand why he thinks 10 INT is the power build. With the DLC and grabbing the skill books you can easily get 100 in every skill having 4 INT.
I like to have Intelligence at 7 so you get the Voracious reader perk to get unlimited True Police Stories magazines
9 Endurance is the way to go so you can select every available implant. Intelligence like you pointed out is not impressive. You don't need to max every skill e.g. don't need both guns and energy weapons.
Luck is a much more useful stat. It is very easy to almost max every single skill with the dlc and 1 or 2 int perks
@@wsmiles8677 Get banned from every casino in new vegas! god I wish NV was playable on modern OS and hardware... I've tried for weeks to make it work. it does not.
@ZeeHero Don't think there have ever been issues with NV running on modern hardware. Even if there are, a quick read-through of a mod guide like Viva New Vegas would teach you how to fix and improve the game.
I like how MATN claims master skills with low special attributes is unrealistic, yet ignores that a male character, who is a soldier, doesn't know how to shoot a gun well at the start of the game, or a female character who has a law degree doesn't know how to charm people or convince them with low Charisma. You'd think with the reliance on perks, they'd have replaced tagged skills with starting perks, so your character isn't completely inept at the start of the game.
Or better yet, some random lawyer lady can use power armor with zero training, something that is super rare and difficult to obtain in the wasteland.
Maybe the male was a medic/technician? Maybe the female wasn't actually a very good lawyer?
@@AdityaKumar-qk9xo Given we see him with a gun, fully armored, and marching into battle alongside other soldiers, it's safe to say he has combat training, medics typically are more lightly equipped to make room for medical supplies.
Given she managed to get a law degree,
I doubt that's the case, and if so, she'd still be skilled at persuasion to convince them to give it to her LOL.
@@risso2309 he's just marching, no where does it say into battle. Infact, there's a power armored guy with him, meaning he probably isn't the most combat oriented anyway. And even with zero weapon skills he can still kill a raider easy enough.
The wife can also pass easy skill checks with lowest charisma.
You're trying to mix up roleplaying and skills. That will never make sense, as they are given general backgrounds, no specifics. I can find flaws like that in literally every fallout game to date
@@AdityaKumar-qk9xo even someone who never faces direct combat gets combat training in the military, you’re just making excuses
It' official: MATN is only interested in RPG when it's a Rocket-Propelled Grenade.
Speaking of grenades. MATN is the kind of guy who uses grenades when his character is *"nice and close, nice and close, nice and close, nice and close"* to an enemy and uses VATS (which lock his character in place) to throw said grenade.
I don't have any formal military training. But I'm pretty sure "nice and close" is the last thing you want to be when using a grenade of any kind.
700 hours in fallout 4, know the game inside out, and I have to say, fallout 4 is actually *insanely* shallow, more than you realize. For example, the junk system is only useful for settlements and not much else. Oh sure, you can use junk to attach a powerful receiver to your hunting rifle, but why do that when you can grab a free combat rifle from the start of the game and upgrade its damage with 0 points into gun nut. Hell, why even use the "junk system" to upgrade weapons at all, when you can powerlevel your way to the point where even a common mutie drops a fully upgraded assault rifle for you to use? Oh and sneak and sneak attack criticals are so overpowered, you could play nearly the entire game with a combat knife, 0 junk and crafting involved. There are no tactics involved just retardedly op mechanics, very badly balanced. At level 33 you become a god that can kill behemoths with a single knife attack and no armor and that's with 3 fucking perks. You try doing that in NV on a high tier enemy like a deathclaw or cazadores, and you will get your crap demolished instantly. No, you actually need to be prepared to fight these enemies by buying appropriate weapons and ammo. Cazadores are very weak to hollow point ammunition and high dps weapons, so an automatic weapon loaded with hollow points is the optimal way to deal with them. For deathclaws, you either go for sneak attacks with a long ranged, high damage weapon, or raw dps weapons with armor piercing properties (minigun, assault rifle, tri-beam with overcharged ammo etc.). Actual tactics and planning bolstered by good perk and weapon design vs brainless sneak attack crits with dumbass op blitz perk dealing upwards of 700 damage with a switchblade. Also, NV has an antimateriel rifle with explosive ammo, fallout 4 doesn't (the creation club crap doesn't count). Checkmate.
I played Fallout NV only recently and I am not looking at it with rosy glasses as you all do, so I really think you are giving it way too much credit. Sure, it has the better story but the AI and the gameplay sucks. They can not duck behind the cover, and the run at you in a straight line even if the are not melee. Also I didn't feel it's much harder then Fallout 4, rarely died from Dethclaw or Cazadores etc. and overall it was more buggy and crashed a lot towards the end of the game. Just my experience.
>"you need ackcthual tactics to fight deathclaws!!1!"
Let me remind you how insanely OP melee/unarmed builds are in FNV. I can simply stunlock/knock over every deathclaw and maul it to death with little to no planning whatsoever. As easy as that, and I was playing on Hard, mind you. A bit harder with Cazadores, but only if I haven't completed OWB, where I can get poison immunity.
I will never, ever stop saying that FNV (basically, FO3) SPECIAL system is incredibly broken.
I also second the buggyness and instability of FNV, only got it stable after modding the absolute hell out of it in my latest playthrough, which is still ongoing
@@pug-aloentertainment3801 Cool, now play on very hard where your damage goes from 75% to 50% and damage taken goes from 150% to 200% and proceed to get one-shot mauled by a deathclaw mother/alpha. Your only chance of winning with melee is high stealth + stealth boy + a weapon with a high enough damage to one shot with sneak attack crits, or a boatload of chems, preferably anything that gives DR and slows time (turbo, implant GRX, slasher, med-x, battle brew). Meanwhile in fallout 4 sneak attack crits are so busted (x10! melee damage multiplier @rank 3), that you can one hit kill nearly everything with a combat knife, with the blitz perk making gameplay even more braindead. So yeah, preparation is needed in FNV, whereas in Fo4 all you need is a high enough level, no consumables, no good equipment, just sneak + ninja.
@@meropticon_1651 first of all, very hard in GameBryo games is idiotic in a way. Second of all, even lower damage won't stop me from knocking deathclaws over.
Also, most deathclaws were perfectly capable of one shotting me on Hard already, so your advice about very hard makes no point.
And before you tell me to try gun build, there are shotgun perks that turn Quarry clearing a laughable endeavor, which I already tried myself
@@pug-aloentertainment3801 1. 🤓
2. Try hardcore and very hard
3. Fallout 4 crashed on startup for me, i had to use F4SE and the unofficial patch to even get in the game
Obsidian literally handed Bethesda a cheat sheet on how to make a great fallout with mass appeal but they still fumbled fo4. Matn uses new vegas as an excuse for why fo4 had troubled development when in reality it SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE REFERENCE POINT TO IMPROVE UPON. WHY BETHESDA!?
@@SkullkeeperVSK I was JUST about to say that
New Vegas sold less than fallout 3.
@@mangutero12 Sales figures are useless since people typically don't play a game until after they've already bought it.
Fallout new vegas fucking sucked
@@mangutero12 and the community agrees nv is better than 3
Something I thought you could have brought up when John was saying new Vegas had weapons becoming obsolete by mid game was the specialized perks and more importantly skill points. Sure, your 9mm smg isn’t great, but every 25 skill points it’ll get a damage boost, plus the grunt perk will give you an additional 25% damage, something you can do if really feel like putting the investment into guns. If you don’t want to engage with this mechanic in new Vegas, you have a brand new weapon: 9mm smg to 10 mm smg to 12.7mm smg, plus the Thompson if you have honest hearts and the silenced .22 if you want a specialized weapon. Putting a new receiver that doesn’t even have a visual change on your combat rifle is not the same.
Edit: just realized something as well. The greater weapon selection makes a weapon more “yours” than renaming the same weapon. I’ve never talked with or seen somebody play with the same 7 selected weapons as I have. Weird special weapons like the multiplas or 5.56 pistol are much cooler than your legendary weapon with a unique name
12.7 MM SMGs and Thompsons mostly compete with the 5mm and 5.56mm rifles and the LMG. Since they're two handed and some perks draw a distinction between one and two handed.
>something being old is bad
Jon must hate the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. It's way older than skill points.
2:14:00 Skill threshold is evil and must be condemned. Specifically for lockpicking. Because it effectively turns a 0-100 scale into 0-4 scale. In the world where Skyrim exists. In the game where you can (less effectively) use guns with higher skill requirement that you currently have.
Where MaTN does lose his point is the fact that in FO4 you can't go from one level of lockpicking to another in one levelup too. Because they have level restrictions that prevent you from picking it.
I still think that the Leveling of Hacking and LockPick suck
IMO Lockpick should be integrated into Sneak. Since lockpick is very linear and singular, compared to its counterpart Science where you can hack terminals, pass dialogue and practical skill checks, and create powerful items.
With that out of the way.
Lockpicking and hacking shouldn't be level locked. They'd still have levels, but meeting that level makes the minigame easier.
Locks and terminals have 0, 25, 50, 75, and 100 levels.
As you level up sneak or science;
Locks' "sweet spot" gets wider and bobby pins become harder to break.
Terminals "dud removers" show up more and "replenish attempts are guaranteed to show up if you meet the terminal's level.
And personally to make lockpicking a bit more challenging, 75 and 100 level locks have 1 and 2 more additional "sweetspots", respectively, that the bobby pin must get to while holding the screwdriver in place before you can resume turning the tumbler
The fact that--to him--"specialization" means "have maximum everything in every category such that nothing is 'weak'" says he has no idea what character building or specialization mean.
By definition, a specialty is something you are ESPECIALLY good at, which means there must be something you are especially average or mediocre at. You don't "gain specialization" by just bulking your stats, th that's just leveling up.
I don't watch MATN myself but the more I listen to him, the more it sounds like he just doesn't play RPGs, or is the worst example of a powergamer if his statements are anything to go by.
What Many described is being GENERALIST.
Completely different word.
Sometimes generalists are jack of all trades, sometimes generalists are good at everything
@@danielsurvivor1372 Still sorta raises the question as to why he thinks people shouldn't make specialized characters and that an RPG's mechanics should discourage this, when its a very common and possibly even fundamental aspect of both tabletop and digital RPGs.
@@averymicrowave1713 EX ACTLY!
Honestly that's one of the reasons I prefer FNV compared to F3.
Tho NV also has a problem where you get to lvl up almost all your skills to 100 but it's less severe and I atleast can alwaya just ignore dialogue options that don't fit my character.
@@averymicrowave1713 the funny part that popped into my head just now is cyberpunk was criticized for not being much of an rpg yet I find myself stating at my perks more than my weapons because I have to make sure I don't accidentally spec wrong and ruin my build.
43:42 YOU CAN HOLD DOWN SHIFT TO HIGLIGHT ITEMS!?
This would have made my Fallout 2 playthrough alot less painful.
If I'm not mistaken, it's sfall addition and wasn't in original game.
@Lovegrip Symposium I had to look in the WIKI for where ONE METAL ROD was...
Yeah it's a mod feature
Your profile pic fits perfectly
If you don't set yourself to auto-run, you notice it really quickly while you're trying to run places
It’s so eery to see how similar MatN’s defense is compared to HBomberguy’s Dark Souls 2 defense. Not talking about the game’s strong points but about how the actually best game in the series is secretly the worst, the broken systems are genius the world building, enemies, even the freaking speedrun comparison is in there.
I've played demon souls up to dark souls 3, even bloodborne. Out of all the souls games..I really enjoyed dark souls 2..bloodborne was my most played though..but I absolutely love ds2
@@dreadmonkey6811 I think DS2 has just more interesting and volatile level design than all the others. I think if you enjoy that, it's probably the best Fromsoft title.
i dont remember him saying ds3 was bad
Honestly, it's always been my opinion that the junk/weapon mod system makes the game *worse*. There is now very little reason to loot enemies for weapons because you are better off crafting weapon mods yourself. Since weapon durability is no longer a thing, you can't loot a weapon to use to repair and improve your own weapon. Also, you can't loot several of the same kind of weapon from enemies and jury-rig them into a single high-quality weapon as a way to increase the amount of loot you are carrying without increasing the weight.
Bruh the crafting and scraping is time consuming and awful. I can't have fun with 4, i really try but end up spending my time with Immersion breaking Settlement building crap.
I'd argue to keep looting enemies in order to sell off their stuff to buy resources to mod weapons.
@@LordMegatron818 Sure but my point is that it's often not worth looting their *weapons* since they have a bad caps-to-weight ratio. F3 and FNV didn't have this problem because of the durability system.
@@lewispascoe1145Yeah I guess so, I noticed that too and it's really grating. I mean if you really wanted to you could just slap on some power armor and have your companions lug around that stuff, but I guess it really doesn't solve the issue.
@@LordMegatron818 IIRC, most weapons in Fallout 4 didn't sell for much unless they had tons of mods on them. I remember specifically avoiding double barrelled shotguns because they had a value/weight ratio of 2.
Correction for Many. Perks WERE fun. Now they kind of aren't. I recall 1 and 2 having perks that scaled with levels and had some amazing effects. Who remembers the unarmed perks from 2 that let you play the whole game with zero weapons?
Yeah, the perks in FO4 are just your check markers for what used to be skill levels. They don't allow for any interesting change in gameplay, they don't add any cool mechanics or interactions.
@@Gakusangi not all perks are like that, like blitz allowing you to teleport with your melee weapon, or the mysterious stranger showing up.
but yeah the majority of perks aren't very interresting
@@Gakusangi cyberpunk also has this problem.
@@gennoble6934 CP'77 has MANY problems. It's mostly uninteresting perk systems is definitely one of them. The loot system in that game is a CRIME!
FO1 had that too. I made a high luck high agility unarmed only character it was hillarious.
You can choose a perk to make your dog do limb damage = meaningful choice and consequences WTF XDDDDDDDDDDDD
You know what had (or the lack of) consequences? Clearing Gunners plaza, killing captain Wez...
How about my choice to never interact with the dog at all? Oh wait! That's not possible, because after you and Nick find the hidden room (which is only possible if you have Nick with you when you go there, because the button literally doesn't appear), you HAVE TO follow the trail with Dogmeat to find the building Kellogg is held up in. If you don't do that, then the elevator is blocked off, and you can't access the area the boss is in.
@@Gakusangi Yes... and funny about it is that Nick suggest to you using Dogmeat even when you left the dog in Sanctuary Hills and he never met him and the dog magically appears in front of Diamond City....
@@MirecU Yeah, that really bugged me too! How did Nick know Dogmeat? That would imply they met. Nick lives and works out of Diamond City, so Dogmeat left the city, traversed all the way past several other towns, some including raiders (who do use dogs, btw), and then ended up at Red Rocket for...reasons? It's like no thought went into this at all, Bethesda just wants you to use the dog.
@@Gakusangi the dog went to look for Nick, sense he was gone for weeks.
2:05:30 absolutely correct. just recently, i was playing new vegas. i hadn't been putting skill points into speech, and so when i reached boulder city, and rather than being able to do the speech check to get the khans out of there, my only immediate peaceful option was to bribe the NCR preventing their escape, something i wasn't even aware was an option at that point. whereas in fallout 4... in truth i can't think of a comparable example.
Now that you mention it, there isn't an option to use a different "Skill Check" in 4. Because the "Skill Check" option only occupies the Triangle/Y button during dialogue.
Its only either "Speech" or "Barter".
PS I used "" because there's no Skills in 4. Its just Charisma checks.
He sounds like such a spoiled brat when saying "If I go to a place it should always have loot" it's like a kid always wanting an award for just showing up. The empty spots make the good finds more valuable. I prefer it over having literal garbage everywhere lol.
I was at the midnight release of Fallout 4. This was back in the day when Bethesda still garnered a lot of respect from their player base. We were so excited about getting a new fallout game that we didn't ask for anything or expect anything. Then, when I got to playing it, I had a nagging feeling in the back of my head that I really wasn't having fun and that there were crucial game elements missing. A fucking disgrace of an RPG and I regret spending as much time playing it as I did. There is no replayability.
It has the most replayability of any fallout lmao
@@raygetard3444 maybe for generated questlines, but not for real questlines
@PrinceJingim I don't play games with an agenda. I play games that are fun, for fun. I understand feeling betrayed if a game doesn't feel true to its roots or just feels like a slap in the face from the devs, but I just don't get that vibe from 4 tbh. It feels different, but it still did alot of things right, is the most player friendly, has the biggest if not best modding community of any fallout, not necessarily good graphics, but still good looking, and certainly better than all the others, and is really big. I think fallout fans should be hating on 76, not 4. Even if you think 4 was a bad game, that's nothing in comparison to 76, even if you like 76. All the terrible things Beth did with that game, I'm sure you've seen "The Fall of 76". Beth has made alot of mistakes in the past, but in my opinion, 4 wasn't one, at least as a whole. But 76, not only was a mistake, it almost felt intentional. Hate on it.
@@raygetard3444 Fallout 4 doesn't feel like Fallout, *to me*. I appreciate the civility and your thoughts on the matter. For me, fallout is about the consequences of human arrogance. In Fallout 4, there are very few choices that matter, even less so in 76. It's important to me that I have an impact on the communities around me via my actions.
@@DarthHellion2 yeah, I agree with that, and of course the story wasn't as good as in NV, and the factions felt weird, how they all sorta had the end goal of just killing each other. But, I liked it overall, and I appreciate the level headed approach too. Many people are so one sided, you know? It's my side or your side. They are just games, and though different, I'd say both NV, 3, and 4 all have their ups and downs, despite NV being the best.
Had the epiphany that in FO4 you're basically Barbie when you said "Nora the mayor-prospector-mercenary." Thanks for adding another notch on the board of reasons why FO4 isn't a good RPG.
my favorite ludo narrative harmony is when you can buy items in shops
Oh boy. Did MaTN really say that making highly specialized character builds in older Fallout games was a bad thing, but making highly specialized character builds in Fallout 4 was a good thing? I can't comprehend this logic. Maybe my build is not specialized enough to truly appreciate this olympic level of mental acrobatics.
Also, his rant against using numerical values for skills in computer RPGs was utterly bizarre. Does he know how digital computers work? It's in the name - "digital". Numbers are unavoidable because to a computer everything is represented with numbers. Of course, some games are too coy about the exact mechanics and formulas used to calculate the outcome of various interactions, but that's not an argument against using numerical values for skill proficiency in general.
Great video! I'm glad that it popped up in my YT recommendations today. You've got a new subscriber.
It is also funny how MATN made a point about how bad it in in FO3 and NV to make a character that has access to all perks, but think the perks in FO4 where you can literally get 10 in everything AND get all perks is just fine.
It's an honor to be followed by Sheev Palpatine! Thanks a ton!
Funny to see virgins like you get mad this is comedic
On "junk economy". This sounded familiar and then I remembered Mandalore's video on Pathologic where he described its bartering system as "hobo economy". And there it made sense as it was an intricate net of different people bartering only specific items for other specific items (that you mostly find in garbage). It was its own economic system. Just selling junk to vendors for money isn't.
Never stop Creetosis, this is liquid gold... in video form.
I'm not a chemist.
you're 2 dum dingus
Do you at least have a theoretical degree in physics?
Should've "specialised" in Intelligence dumbo.
Neither is Creetosis. He's an alchemist. He took the shit that was MATN's video and turned it into gold.