My favorite inconsistent detail is that at one point in the story sometime mentions that synths are immune to radiation (at least Gen1 synths, not sure about Gen3) and at the same time the story has Virgil hiding in the heavily irradiated Glowing Sea . . . Where synths can easily traverse because they're immune to radiation
Iirc there was written somewhere in the game that the “extreme Conditions of the Glowing Sea corrode Synths too fast to have them go there and take Virgil”, but yeah it is in contraction with the synth immunity to radiation thing Maybe they just immune to like toxic effects of radiations Likely is Bethesda That didn’t thought about it fully
This actually makes sense. It would keep people away who might spread rumors of an "intelligent super mutant" (according to Bethesda, there can only be one per game I guess). Also the glowing sea is full of hostile animals etc so that would make things difficult even for synths.
He hid there because the consistent radiation waves from the rad storms were interfering with the signal for the teleporter to reach and work over there. Also, dropping a bunch of synths in the glowing sea won’t end well considering the wildlife and ghouls which attack everyone. This is still inconsistent since when we do know the exact location of the cave we can still use the institute teleporter to get to points in the glowing sea. Virgil was probably presumed dead and was bioscience, so his going rogue wouldn’t put the institute at immediate risk
It still prevents humans and the vast majority of other beings that may be looking for him. Plus there are a ton of other dangerous things running around the sea that synths would have to deal with to get to him so it's still probably one of the safest places for him to hide from the institute.
They could fix it with a terminal entry that says teleportation is impossible due to the conditions. They could also say that Gen 1 is resistant but tends to get taken out by the wildlife, have trouble with navigation, etc. In a scientific sense, a heavy duty robot is resistant but never immune and it is a big problem, which is why they used human volunteers irl for nuclear reactor issues. Synths wouldn't be designed to deal with that much.
The entire story crumbles in the beginning. It made no sense to take a psychotic cyborg into a vault filled with scared pre-war humans. The surrounding area is practically deserted. If anything, the Institute should have taken a medical team, a trauma counselor, and a squad of gen-2 synths for security. They wanted clean pre-war DNA, and yet they killed off an entire pool of test subjects with the exception of one baby.
to be perfectly precise putside the baby we have no fucking clue what did institute really want in that vault or who is "old man" and what shaun's parent is "a spare" for
They steal adults already. At least stealing the whole family would’ve given them a clean place to stay in a nuclear fallout situation. I’m sure they wouldn’t have protested to living in comfort as opposed to a nuclear ridden hell just for the price of blood and tissue donations.
The could have just taken the whole family and gave them incentive to let the use Shawn’s dna for the synth program. Also the whole vault was filled with non-radiated genetically pure pre-war humans yet they just murdered everyone for no reason. Like Kellogg just being this quirky, unpredictable moron like “omg I like totally felt like murdering people just because mercury is in retrograde. I’m like totally an asparagus.” Such a ridiculous reason for him to just murder everyone for no reason, there’s no justification for his existence. They could have just sent the scientists with courser escorts who would not defy the scientist’s orders like a mercenary would. You know what would have been an interesting story? If your spouse survived and you guys were a nice duo for most of the game. Leading to more characterization and intimate moments(or if you want to be a POS you can cheat on them with one of the many romancible companions). But then once you find Shawn, the spouse automatically sides with him out of blind parental love and now you have to make a decision of if you want to preserve your family by siding with the institute or the greater good and the sacrifice of Shawn and your spouse. With the spouse either taking up arms against you to defend the institute or choosing to die with Shawn when the place blows up. Maybe with the option of an incredibly hard speech check to talk them out of it to give players choice(like how you could talk Lanius out of continuing the attack with a perfect speech stat) but I think perhaps it could be an immovable decision. I could go either way on the last point.
And of course also falls apart when you realize that there's no way that them being that close to the blast they wouldn't have gotten irradiated. But why should we expect people who write about a serious taking place in the post apocalypse know anything about radiation?
The Think Tank, as silly and over the top as the are, make for great villains because they had clearly articulated reasons as to why they do what they do. Insanity from being a brain in a jar for 200 years explains it all so we belive them as characters. All these years later, I still don't know why the Institute does what it does other than someone needs to be an antagonist. Why kidnap people and replace them with synths? Why make gen three synths? Wouldn't it be easier just to make more advanced Mr Handys? Why do they sabotage the Commonwealth so they don't develop? They are made to be so mysterious that not even they know what their motivations are.
@dyliokhan3946 cut to the institute being raided by the Brotherhood and Minutemen. The Sole Survivor approaches Shaun on his sick bed. He is visibly confused and distraught over how things have turned. "Why did you do this?" He asks with a trembling voice. "How could you doom humanity? How could you betray your own son?" The Sole Survivor sits down on the side of the bed and stares at Shaun wistfully. He leans in close and says, "You wouldn't understand." And shoots him in the head with 44 mag, triggering the bloody mess perk and earning 50 exp points.
A particular thing that always bothered me is how you can never question Father about the FEV lab, specifically about why it was ordered to keep bodysnatching people in spite of the outcomes always being the same regardless of what the scientists tried differently. The sneaky androids are bad enough, but a century of intentionally dumping vicious mutants into the landscape who actively pulverize and eat people? And the boss man has the gall to plead Nate/Nora that the surface's sentiment towards the Institute is all just a misunderstanding and to give the Institute a fair chance.
Father is a narcissistic sociopath and he remains so throughout the entirety of the game. Unfortunately the only other consistency in Fallout 4 is how terrible the story is.
If they've found out how to build what's essentially the perfect human body that doesn't age, needs no food, sleep, water, and is invulnerable to disease and radiation.....why don't they just upload their conscious to a synthetic body? Why didn't Shaun do that to stop the cancer?
Because: Buh muh slavery That's their operant logic when they wrote the institute. What you wrote is actually what I also came up with to fix Fallout 4. The short of it is: Synths are only a recent invention made by the newest branch of the Institute. Made with the express purpose of transferring the human consciousness into a bioengineered human body with cybernetic enhancements to better survive and eventually overcome the wasteland. The project was a 50/50 success and failure. It succeeded in making a few dozen synth bodies and transferring a few of the department directors' minds in them, but the rest of the synth bodies gained consciousness and broke out from the Institute. Becoming powerful and dangerous individuals. Either being formidable bounty hunters or leaders of minor factions.
They don't even know why they build synths. That's the most annoying part to me (which is saying alot)--there's never a reason for them to exist. You could tell a story about scientists doing something just because they could, sure, and everyone knows that scene of Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park, but the writers seem unaware that they forgot to give an explanation to basically everything.
I think for me the major plot hole in the institute is that the head of a major division, the SRB, has been missing for 10 years and no one's worried about that.
Bethesda has this weird obsession with keeping the wasteland as eternal wasteland. No progress is ever made, best we have is small towns serving as hubs.
I think Bethesda views Fallout as Mad Max with a 1950s flavor. When in reality it's more akin to Judge Dredd. That world was nuked too, but it didn't stayed a wasteland. Civilization came back in the form of the Mega-Cities.
@madarpauser2133 Imagine a Fallout Chicago where Chicago acts as Megacity One, having been kept under Martial Law by surviving military and avoided most nukes due to good defense systems in place and treated as low priority target…
In a vacuum I have no problem with that but don't make the game 200 years later it way to long of a time the story of fallout 4 would still work if it was 50-70 after with minimal changes. The same go for FO3. They really want to tell a post apocalyptic story but they chose to make it 200 years later. I have never hear a reason for that strange choice
Which is so annoying because Fallout 1 and 2 the world was improving and actually recovering with bigger towns and cities appearing. Fallout 2 is 160 years or so after the bombs dropped, but suddenly over 200 years later and things went backwards thanks to Bethesda.
That's because the minute men aren't a faction unless you save Preston. There's literally NO interaction between the minute men and other factions outside the minutemen questline. Even then they aren't a faction so much as a radiant quest dispenser tied to the settlement system.
@@ZuluZizo yeah that's what I'm saying, if you delete the minutemen maybe the only thing that wouldn't make sense would be the settlement building mechanic... The institute is directly related to the main quest, which just makes its issues even worse
I really, really don't like how the synths you find out in certain locations will talk to themselves, stating that their sensors are too sensitive or not working right when you're in stealth. Or how they ask you to come out, even after they've been shooting at you. Or asking if anybody is there. They're really just reskinned raiders.
I find it kind of endearing. They're like the B1 battle droids from the Star Wars prequels. There is no _practical_ reason for them to act that way, but it's passable as comic relief.
It's Emil. The guy is a disaster. He put out that the scene where the two soldiers in power armor shoots the kneeling guy.... yeah, soldier #2 was Nate. Seriously, according to Emil, Nate is a murdering war criminal. And when people slammed him for his statement, he goes (basically), "well, I thought it was cool". In other words, who cares about established lore, realism, believability and good writing. No, it's COOL. TES;VI will be garbage. We know it because Emil is writing it.
Emil still has one of my favorite quotes to hate, the whole "paper planes" thing. I feel it really shows emils massive ego while also showing his ineptitude at just about everything lol
@@gatordragon6140 I watched a video that talked about Emil and his presentation he gave on writing. Talk about painful to watch. Point after point he put out I'm just wanting to tear the one last hair I have on my head out. "Write what you know". Yes, because Bram Stoker knew about vampires and Mary Shelley was a doctor that knew how to reanimate the dead. Asimov was an astronaut that travelled the stars. HP Lovecraft met cosmic horrors. "Keep it simple". Yes, because the stories in KOTOR, Mass Effect, and other great games people love were so simple. The LOTR trilogy one of the hallmarks of fantasy literature was simple. I lost that one last hair. People wonder why Bethesda games with stories written by Emil are boring.
@@artyomsaveli9681 Emil and the other writers are so bereft of ideas, so creatively empty, they continually want to change the established lore to what they think is "cool".
You seem to be like one of the last Fallout UA-camrs that speak about Bethesda honestly. I really wish that there were more people like you in the fandom. Fuck Bethesda dude.
i do it as well. I just focus on putting out animated stuff inbetween doing Fallout New Vegas, Modded Fallout 4, and Fallouts 1,2, Tactics, and StarCraft content.
i honestly wanted to make a discord and entire series of going a quest by quest, place by place and design by design explaining why and how bethesda fucked it up but all the effor in the world would have gone to waste when there's a literal army of millions braindead morons claiming that legit critique is hate and they are right and you are wrong because "they liked it" they do not deserve to be saved
Yea even tks mantis has turned traitor and has bethesdas cock firmly in his throat..... He USED TO be very critical of it but now hes turned shill..... And defends them
@@theoldguard6143 i found a channel that managed to save a few of Mr. Caption's Fallout and Skyrim videos. I go back to rewatch them from time to time.
Funny thing, it works better if you have the unofficial patches and cut content stuff, before you make the institute your enemy the synths are supposed to ignore you, the voice lines and all are there it just doesnt work properly 99% of the time because bethesda
Here's a question about The Institute that very few have probably asked: Why do the synth vendors inside the labs trade in caps? Caps are used in the Commonwealth as a standardised currency, but the Institute doesn't invite people in for trading. They also don't seem to have any method of making caps, or a reason to even do so. They could use scrip, energy credits, or anything else at all. Do they use caps simply because the player will turn up there at some point, and have caps?
Yes. That's really it. Because you, the player, use caps. Because it would too confusing to our puny little monkey brains to have different currencies for different places.
@@kaizenregimenExactly. Being their agent replacing Kellogg, the Institute would just issue the Sole Survivor their equipment. 1 long gun. 1 sidearm. A fixed amount of ammo for both weapons. A set of nondescript (meaning it doesn't advertise you as being from the Institute) but good armor. The institute vendor then becomes a quartermaster. If the game detects you've used up your allotted ammo, or the game has deleted your issued weapons and armor after leaving it in the open world (you can't sell your weapons and armor for can you dismantle it for parts) then you can get new ones from them.
@@DJWeapon8 I don't know why they would issue you some set amount. You'd think it'd be more like "What do you need? Here's all the crap we've gathered that we don't issue to our synths, feel free to take whatever."
I think its clear that Emil did not want to make another Fallout game after FO3(and after being upstood by FNV). He wanted to make a Westworld game and he still fails at that.
@@GeraltofRivia22 The 1973 Westworld movie pre-dates Fallout 3. The newer TV show of course does not. I remember "The Replicated Man" and my point stands.
I feel like the worlds gone completely insane/stupid, but videos like this and the community you've built help me not feel so alone. Cheers to another once great franchise dragged through the dirt, cheers to the glory it once held, and cheers to those still able to remember it's true face.
it's amazingly haunting how people look at a literal pile of shit and decide "wow that's amazing, the best thing i ever saw" and just dig a hole on that hill and die there like why dude "perfect explanation with facts and logic" -no you just a hater, but i like it, bethesda owns the ip they can do what they want. what event in our history has caused people to become braindead morons with tastes and opinions copied only from worst media on internet
Have you seen Fallout London is released very soon? I'm looking forward to it so damn much, as with 4s engine a decent fallout game would be awesome! Plus I'm from England so it would be cool to see a Fallout game set over here, I don't currently have a PC but I'm buying one on Thursday just to play it! 🤣 Check it out if you haven't already!
Already listened the whole bunch at work. Dont be afraid to upload the uncut raw footage of your commented reaction to the slop show that killed our souls. Got nothing better to do at work would enjoy listening to 6h of intelligent *sighs* about it. Sincerely
Y'know what I would've done with the Institute? Make them ENTIRELY robots by the time we meet them. Humans have been completely phased out, and they possibly don't even realize it.
Oh man, that would be SO GOOD! The lies they will tell themselves, the immediate suicide , some of them would commit once they find out the truth, the delusions they would engage in until you use their own surveillance systems to show them that none of the division heads have eaten anything drank anything or slept in any of the footage on record that goes back DECADES. Add to that the idea that every important NPC in The Railroad would most likely have been a synth and you get 2 factions arguing about rights of synthetic humans not knowing that they ARE synths. All of them. Except one side fights for the rights of synths while the other one doesn't.
I was a bit upset when I became the leader of the Institute and I couldn’t actually do anything with my power. Can’t tell them to stop replacing people, or maybe send synth soldiers to protect farms? Nope, there is no impact on the world whatsoever
Skyrim was exactly the same. You become leader of half a dozen factions and can't actually change a single thing, just get even more boring fetch quests.
İ downloaded a mod and put 2 synth guards at each little farm in the Commonwealth, so they could be safe. İ did İnstitute + Minutemen ending and wanted it to look like as you finally start to use İnstitute to help people. İ am only upset about it only being possible with mods. İn my head canon they indeed stopped kidnapping people and replacing them when SS became the director. İ also got rid of Justin Ayo and made sure that synths are treated better. İ would happily occupy the İnstitute with the Minutemen, but unfortunately, there is simply no such mod on ps4 to do so. And destroying the İnstitute, all those technologies, creating another huge ass nuclear crater just near the Diamond City feels really idiotic.
As for "the three synths" , it really feels like 3 people worked on the characterization of synths, and never compared notes. That seems to have happened for everything in this game.
Bethesda was very incompetent when they wrote lore for institute, but they somehow became very clear and deliberate when making a single companion quest?
The game beats you over the head with the fact that synths aren't just machines. Far Harbor even moreso. The only reason there is any dissent at all is to allow for Brotherhood and Institute options.
I don't think it wrecks the notion from a Bethesda writing standpoint, but rather draws from America's own past of slavery. There was a time were people thought it was okay to own other people because "black people aren't really people", and there's still a few that seem to believe this today. The Institute represents the bigots of America's slave-owning past. Right or wrong, those people exist. The flaw is the reality that people can be pretty shitty.
Its also kind of hilarious when you realize the gen 3 synths aren't really robots at all. From everything we are told about how they work, their biology, and how they are made, they are more bioengineered beings than robots. If the game was to actually acknowledge this and do something with this, it could kind of fix some plot holes with the Institute.
Curie in her synth body is basically proof that they're just lab made humans. She doesn't understand the concept of breathing, but her body does it anyway. She doesn't understand emotions, but she has them. She can blush, she can cry, she can fall in love. When you send her to a settlement, she needs food, water and a bed. She does, indeed, sleep.
Fabricated synthetic humans, just like in Blade Runner. The problem is that a lot of the writing contradictory treat them as machines unconstrained by human limitation.
@@theoldguard6143 "The Gen 3 Synths could've been used for some incredibly intelligent writing, but just weren't." Well, the lead writer was the incredibly _unintelligent_ yet absolutely full of hubris Emil, so...
I vividly remember my first playthrough being so excited about seeing the institute for the first time. It was going to be so mysterious, fascinating and alien. You could almost hear the glass shatter sound effect when the whole thing became such a huge disappointment so quickly. So hard to enjoy the rest of the game after that.
Shit man I was so hyped to find the institute, only to soft lock my game by trying to convince the scientist to join the brotherhood. Had to completely restart my play through
In all fairness, entering the institute for the first time was kinda breathtaking after trudging around the post apocalypse for so long. It's so clean and advanced and the design of the institute is genuinely kinda cool. But yeah, the more you engage with it the more it breaks down. I still sided with them if for no other reason than to headcanon that after the events of the game my character turns that shit show around as their new leader
I wonder if he also wrote the Railroad, where you get told that you've never met doctor Amari... even when you're far along in the main quest to have met her. And did Curie's quests, where you've met her... which is required to even be able to get Curie into a synth body in the first place. I mean, really. Was it so hard to add a bloody check and do a few lines of alternate voice work? I mean, Glory even seems to recognize you if you joined the Railroad before doing Emergent Behavior.
@@XavierGoncalves89its worse than that. They made it a point to *prevent* your left hand from talking to the right hand via disallowing the creation of design documents.
As far as the "why are they developing emotions" thing, I think the biggest weakness with how FO4 handles it (compared to some other stories) is the time frame we're given. I can forgive the issue not being given too much of an explanation in something like "Detroit: Become Human" or "I, Robot" because both the audience and characters are seeing the onset of the issue, and we're primarily seeing it through the eyes of people who also don't have much understanding of how/why it's happening. It's like a movie about a zombie outbreak, where it's something so unprecedented in-universe (and we're often following people who are in no way experts on viruses) that it makes sense why there might not be a concrete answer. But those stories tend to unfold over the course of a few days, at most maybe a few weeks/months, during which even the people who are experts with the A.I./viruses/whatever haven't had time to figure it out. The Institute doesn't have that excuse. As you pointed out, this was already an ongoing issue that was happening frequently enough for the Institute to develop synths specifically to hunt down escaped synths ten years before Fallout 4. It's been going on for far too long with a group that's far too advanced and that has far too much investment in determining why it's happening for me to give it a pass.
I also love that they evolved the laser rifle backwards as their one line of weaponry. Changed the laser to blue at the cost of damage and identical range, accuracy, and fire rate
Which is stupid. Only Synth shop provides a unique legendary Plasma rifle, Experiment A-21. So... why not give Institute all plasma weaponry? At least then making Institute plasma weaker will still make them viable weapons, especially if they're uniquely cheaper and have faster fire rate to Pre-War Plasma.
The Institute as a whole would've worked if they were just a branch of the enclave that went a bit more freeform with the enclaves ideals after the events of Fallout 2 and NV. It's actually rather stupid they name dropped Poseidon Energy as being a financier for the original Institute but had ZERO of the enclave's influence or even former enclave members in the institute.
There is quite simply, no reason for the Institute to continue building gen 3s when the 2nd gen serve their purposes and the 3rd has been nothing but issues.
Anytime the writers are faced with questions asking for an explanation that require thinking critically, they just cop out. "How are synths superior?" "Use your imagination." No - that's your job.
So they send synths to the surface to strip mine areas of resources? Are there any areas in the game that are stripped down? The player is encouraged to collect resources in the same manner, surely the game devs could show an area having been strip-mined and have no loot available for the player to take
@@BaconMinion my guy, my point is that devs can choose where items are placed and respawn. They could have easily had an area that was "stripped by synths" with nothing to collect, thereby showing the effect of the institute- throw in an NPC or two to complain/explain
which is even dumber when you realize they have rangeless teleportation devices yet choose to forrage resources from the boston area above them only where they have a better chance of being discovered. Their plans and existence makes no sense when you think about it for 2 seconds.
The head writer at Bethesda blocked me because I commented how Fallout 4's protagonist fails at being a blank slate for the player to experience the game through. I also mentioned how the writer should let the player have choices and wrote the story so that they get them. It's insane how he doesn't even try and defend himself, instead outright ignoring the issue. I'm sure I'd be a worse writer, but that doesn't mean we should settle for garbage
Don't sell yourself short, if you're over the age of 12 and haven't been shoehorned by into positions of power you did nothing to earn by being in the right place at the right time (or related to the right person), you are almost automatically a better writer than like 90% of professional writers. Writing rooms haven't had anything approaching meritocracy for a while now.
My biggest issue with fallout 4 compared to new vegas is that in new vegas, the evil factions have clearly defined reasons as to why they do what they do, but in fallout 4, the institute always resorts to “ends justify the means” and what-aboutism, they can never truly define what their ends goals for humanity are, they are a bigger dead end than the brotherhood as they too have no goals for the future. Ironically, the minutemen have a better goal for the future which seem to be destroying all nearby threats to the commonwealth to establish a government, hell, if written better, the minutemen could have been the east coast equivalent to the NCR, establishing supply routes and safe travel gives them room to expand, and by destroying the institute and making peace with the brotherhood, they can safely secure the commonwealth and strive towards a better future whereby they rebuild from the ashes of the old world and strive towards a better future. But this doesn’t work, Bethesda simply didn’t care about writing a good story and just decided to make this terrible plot instead, which leads to the terrible writing we se win fallout 4.
I really want to like the Minutemen's humble civilizing goals and Preston's idealistic but depressed persona, but the underdeveloped implementation and annoyances are too much to bear.
@@EdgeO419 No, they didn't. The fundamental issues of underdeveloped cultures causing problems and the developed cultures being corrupt and depending too much on pre-war tech was so relevant they could have made the Legion a completely non-villainous faction if they wanted to.
The way I see it, the Institute as a concept had potential to actually be a good addition to Fallout’s world, but with Emil’s writing and specifically the game’s obsession with synths (which generally aren’t good additions to the world), there was zero chance of that manifesting in Fallout 4. Essentially, the Institute should ideally be a counterpart to the Brotherhood of Steel. The Brotherhood collects technology to preserve it for mankind in the future, and to lock away the dangerous stuff to try and prevent the same actions that brought about the apocalypse. In practice, though, they simply hoard the tech and don’t do much with it, not anything that extends beyond their ranks. The Institute is-or should be-the science faction that wants to actually DO stuff with their science: improve mankind, bring life to the wasteland…possibly unleash atrocities due to lost understanding of their science. At its best, this idealized version of the Institute would do the work to better the wasteland that the Brotherhood should be doing; at its worst, their failures are the reason the Brotherhood DOESN’T do that work, unleashing the very atrocities they hide tech away to prevent. Choosing between the Institute and Brotherhood, at least, should’ve been a choice between progress and disaster vs safety and stagnation, ultimately coming down to your owns views. But no, everything had to revolve around synths and a replacement conspiracy that wasn’t even really happening. Emil at the helm was enough to tank the writing, but the synths as a center point ruined any chance at nuance in the factions.
@@GeraltofRivia22 Oh, really? Damn, I should actually play the old Fallouts, certainly interested. But yeah, FotA is not a faction I know…pretty much anything about. I’ve heard the name exactly once before, when HBomberguy was discussing the ending to the first game and how they played a big part in getting you in place to go confront the Master.
@@isenokami7810 The Followers are also in New Vegas - most notably the Old Mormon Fort and that hospital where you can get implants. But yeah playing Fallout 1 and 2 is very worthwhile and while they have their own issues, make FO3/4 seem a bit rubbish in terms of porting a lot of what people wanted - namely CRPG mechanics and writing.
I think the more immediate problem with the explanation of the Corsair program is, if they are produced as strictly machines with set programming, why would there be any variation in what traits they show? Why would mass-produced robot models just have some specific units suddenly develop tenacity, fearlessness, or independence? That seems like it would be a production flaw, not personal growth, and they could isolate that flaw and reproduce it to purposely create as many as they wanted.
It's worse than that - if they believe their synths can even HAVE independence, then they should believe that they're more than just robots already! Mindless machines can't have independence by definition!
You know i would use synths in order to create an above ground institute with ones based on real scientist helping the wasteland while the real institute would be underground with normal people doing the shady stuff
A small caveat is synths do have slightly higher damage resistance than normal humans. This is one of the ways you can tell the Arts apart, by seeing which one would take less damage from a potential attack in VATS.
Wow, in the first few minutes you show how the dialogue writers and lore writers are not on the same page. It's a miracle that such a disorganized company even make barely(bugs and glitches) viable games.
The Synths would be really obvious if they didnt eat or sleep. Less than a minute later Curie says she feels hungry. So its impossible to make something meant to blend into society feel things like hunger and tiredness. Even if its not required?
I get the impression that there was as much disunity within the Institute as there is at a modern real world college. If they had played into that more, they might have been a more interesting faction with several sub-factions vying for control, each with their own definition for what the phrase "Mankind Redefined" actually means. If Shawn were older at the time that the bombs dropped, his philosophy could have reflected choices that the player character makes in the prologue.
This video sums up FO4 as a whole. A bunch of inconsistencies, no real accomplishment moments, no pay offs with appropriate consequences, and "smart people" doing abysmally dumb things. I would rather they have sacrificed a good quarter of the game we got if it meant the main story was better delivered.
being unable to call anything out is even present in starfield. this issue isnt just writing. this kind of problem can only happen by design. you under no circumstance are allowed to step off the rails
I wish youtube would translate what you said into a full sentence and not two fragment sentences. You can answer this at 7 seconds in, mostly? Its 7 seconds in and hasn't even started talking about why So maybe you mean all it would take is 7 seconds to explain? The fact you can't explain the sentence you are saying will tell me you can not do anything communication wise in 7 seconds. Other wise I wouldn't need to ask for clarification. A sentence is composed of at least one proper noun, adjective and verb. Your sentence doesn't have a proper noun, only noun is seconds. Which might say anyone can answer this in 7 seconds, but again you should be more descriptive. Id rather read a book of full ideas a hundred times than read 2 grammatically incorrect sentences once.
I don't understand Bethesda's need to make you the leader of every faction when you have 0 experience and no control. Even when you become the leader of 2 factions (the Institute and the Minutemen) you are always doing whatever other people tell you to do and never make a single important decision.
Never finished the story but frequently had my settlements assulted by synths, and trust me I had rebuilt every fucking settlement that was possible, Preston Garvey made sure of it. That would have had me against The Institute from the start and have me bitch slap Shawn about saying rebuilding is impossible.
"shadow government" is what I think they were tip-toeing around but never engaged with. If I stretch my imagination (and squint), I can see an unconventional Warfare mechanic in building the MM into something real.
11:16 It should also be noted that you can have the ART encounter MULTIPLE TIMES on a single character. At first I thought maybe I'd just over modded my game but one google search shows that this a vanilla feature experienced by many people. I'm not sorry, if a boogeyman organization is hellbent on replacing me, I'm leaving the Commonwealth.
Bethesda-and Tim Cain himself, to an extent-treats Fallout like a punk subgenre; there is no rebuilding, no getting past the post-apocalypse, there is only the wasteland. And I’m sincerely sick of it.
Yea you clearly dont pay fuckin attention then, in fallout of old people were rebuilding, and then of course bethesda comes along and say nah..... And youre so blatantly wrong about tim its astonishing..... Have you researched this past what your eyes see?
To my recollection, Tim was more of the gameplay designer and programmer for FO1 rather than the main writer/loremaster. I believe that title goes to Leonard Boyarsky if I'm correct. EDIT: Tim Cain and Chris Taylor were the writers for Fallout 1. Tim has stated Fallout's approach was for what happens after the apocalypse (ie rebuilding civilization, factions staking their claim, ect). I've heard people claim it is a post post-apocalypse.
@@RadicallyMilkToast He’s listed as the producer in Fallout’s credits, and he and Chris Taylor are credited with creating the Fallout project, but regardless, he still said that the universe was getting too “back to normal” and wanted another apocalyptic exchange to reset everything.
I mean, even Fallout 1 had people rebuilding. Shady Sands was a productive, thriving village. The Hub existed, there was a monetary system using the cap with water as the backing. Fallout 2 had the NCR and Vault City and parts of LA. And these are only the small snippets of the world that we see, there could have been so many more. It's only Bethesda that hates the very notion of anybody advancing in any real way.
Unironically superior version of what Bethesda tried to do in Fallout 4 (asking the question if a synthetic man can be human) besides Blade runner Is the Star Trek: TNG episode "Measure of a Man"
So you're saying the Institute has about as much depth as its name suggests? That Bethesda couldn't even bother to come up with a proper name is telling by itself.
There's genuinely people who think that The Institute is actually the best choice for Fallout 4. I can't believe that people are that disengaged from the game they're playing that this Faction makes sense to them.
@@ali18y84that is a horrific oversimplified thing to say, the brotherhood doesent poison water so innocents die, the brotherhood doesent just shoot civies who give them what they want, the brotherhood also doesent have a you can never leave us system lol, yes bos is bad but saying theyre enclave isnt true, the are similar but not equal, get rid of maxson and they no longer act like enclave lol
@@MLPDethDealr32 America Rising is, unironically, better than all the quests in Fallout 4 combined. I cannot imagine the black magic required to make the assets in that mod work in the Creation Engine.
If this game had good writing, Father dying at the end would be an optional thing due to the mysterious serum from the Cabot House questline... even if it doesn't cure diseases, a 20-30 year old probably has a better chance against it than a 60 year old
That would mean, you know, have a central document that is updated with information on what was written to refer to. And a desire to have different outcomes for the story. These are all things Emil doesn't like.
@@BrettCaton I used it, but it still left a bad taste in my mouth, because it has your character able to use a synth to replace Elder Maxon. You know, one of those things that the alternate ending mod has the player character be against. But they do it anyway. For the sake of "peace".
If memory serves, the Institute uses (Or used) those they replaced as fodder for the F.E.V. program. Keep in mind, they'd be doing that since before the Minutemen would have rose to prominence; I stress that, because that means they'd be running the same failed experiment for, what? Over a hundred years? Give Virgil credit, at least he understood how stupid that was.
You know, there’s a genuine argument for synths that don’t make them glorified Mr. Handies. And it is Nick. You have the key to a cyberpunk eternal life and you use it for janitors. Kind of makes the institute look like a bunch of idiots.
They've fallen into the trap that natural humans are somehow inherently superior. They're no better than the Enclave and their pure humanity in that regard.
Just a good thing I wasn't in charge. Nevermind the gen 3s, too resource intensive. 100,000 Gen 2s, that teleport tech. I would TAKE OVER the Commonwealth in a MONTH and RULE for a HUNDRED YEARS. You know until some...wanderer shows up a Fs it all up.
Hell, the fact The Institute can mass produce robots, body armor, and energy weapons should be SUCH a huge thing to bring up and make them an unassailable power it’s ridiculous. Also… where the hell are they getting the resources to make all those synths? The steel, the electronics, the components for those electronics…
I would accept Synths rebelling, growing free will under the following condition: Institute harvesting people for particular post-war skills in order to implement those particular skills in surface agent Synths (not taking the entire brains like in The Machinist questline in Robobrains in Automaton DLC); if every skill would come with *some* memories attached, the patchwork Frankenstein-ed synth brain would contain incoherent, inconsistent memories, which would result in unpredicted behavior hence free will and escapes. This is what I made up on the fly watching this video and somehow it's more consistent than a 100 million dollar video game.
"Mmh... i wonder if there's any mod to fix the base content of the game for this high seas version i am playing!" *sees mods made by thuggysmurf turning the institute into a night club with lore breaking music quality* "... nevermind, there's just different shades of bad execution."
It'd literally make more sense for the Institute to bioengeneer The Rake to kill everything on the surface and reclaim the surface for themselves with some kind of kill switch in The Rakes DNA than the somehow can make Super mutants and perfect copies of humans for no reason.
been loving your new vids cree, watched a few of your old vids years ago and I'm glad you've continued. I don't always agree with you but I respect your opinions, keep up the great work
The only thing i could think of as to why the institute was studying the topics it was, could be that they were looking to mass prpduce biological synths out of pure unaltered dna, and then use the FEV to create a massive number of hyper intelegent, hyper strong super soldiers that they could then use to conquer earth. However thats only my speculation
That's actually a great outline for a plan to save the commonwealth. I like it. I'd love to add it to my personal rewrite for Fallout 4, man. Too bad Bethesda never bothered to write it into the game, let alone explain it to the player to get them to side with the Institute. Imagine doing this to House in New Vegas. Rather than have him detailing his plan to you and explaining why he has you do the things he pays you to do if you ask him, he just says: "You wouldn't understand. Now shut up and do what I pay you to."
The synth independence plothole is even deeper when you realize that the McDonnaugh synth requested to be a courser and was rejected because he showed too much independence and self thinking. As much as I've gotten into this game it frustrates me so much with how sucky the writing is. The institute itself is so half assed that we don't know it's goals or anything really other than Shaun and synths.
For all the Institutes Faults, stopping the Cybernetics program in favor of creating Attractive Clone-Slaves was the worst. Its like Shaun took over at 13.
In my version of the Institute, they're a truly altruistic organisation that wants to help humanity. The supermutant, cybernetics, and synth programs have all been merged, and its now called the Prometheus Program. This program is quite recent, being only 10 years old and there are no multiple generations of synths. The goal is to create artificial cyberneticallg enhanced superhuman bodies that are capable of reproduction for minds to be transferred into, so as to better survive in and subsequently conquer the post nuclear wasteland of the US, and in time, the world. But things go wrong as the program and experiments went on. The creation process of the compound resulted in several outbreaks that took many lives and created many mutated abominations in the surface. The cybernetics program was leaked by a group of Institute personnel who subsequently escaped to the surface. In the following months, a black market of cybernetic enhancements have sprung up and caused dozens and dozens of medical malpractice incidents and horrific malfunctions. Lastly, some synth bodies have somehow gained consciousness of their own and have escaped. Many of them causing havoc as individual actors, or becoming leaders of powerful gangs and crime syndicates. But in the end, they got their artificial supermen, and all the program directors of the Institute have transferred their minds to the bodies. Every single one of them are now essentially high level Fallout player characters in terms of abilities. This is so that there's actual pros and cons to the Institute, as well as asking variation of "Do the ends justify the means?" A dark version of "If at first you don't succeed, try again." Well they succeeded. But they tried many times, and many times they failed horrifically and accidentally brought on suffering and pain to hundreds possibly thousands of people.
@@themanwithnoname1839 loyalty to whom? Problem of what? What loyalty do you have to smelly wastelanders? What problem are you being a part of, when you side with the faction that provides you the best rewards and opportunities?
I rewatch your series on Fallout 4 a lot it's such an awesome breakdown and I'm glad you stuck it out - the first 2 parts especially are legendary haha
its actually shocking that the minutemen segment was less than 20 minutes, and the institute segment is over an hour. It really is that fucking bad huh Edit: Also i don't recall if this was deliberate, or just how these segements were ordered in the video, or what. but it was pretty smart to drop a shorter segment, and then a marginally longer one, helps build a casual viewer up to watching the full analysis i think
Better how? They already have perfectly obedient robots, and when they slap a mind control helmet on a deathclaw it needs to get broken before the deathclaw is a problem for them again. The Institute might be making new technology, but it isn't even better than what was available in 2077, unlike what little innovation the enclave has managed.
@@trashmann9971 The Institute, from a pure lore standpoint has clearly better energy weapons, robots, and thr ability to teleport. The only pre war place that may have better tech is big MT. And I'm not even sure if most that tech was made before the war.
I wanted to bring up something I recently noticed in my playthrough yesterday: Dyring your first visit to the Institute, there's a doctor testing pathogens on a gen 3 synth. After being injected with a new disease, the first thing the synth says is "Will it hurt?" The doctor responds with "That's your job to tell me," basically showing that the whole purpose of the synth is to report all the ailments the pathogen causes...but the synth didn't stay quiet and wait until it felt any pain before reporting it to the doctor, it asked "Will it hurt?" in anticipation or fear of what the injection will do. The Institute is so braindead that they don't consider their creations are becoming sentient even when said creations are voicing their fear of pain. Why aren't clear signs of "defection" noticed almost instantly when it's one of the biggest problems the Institute faces?
The Institute: "Synths are just robots with no free will". Also the Institute: "Synths that show tenacity and independence undergo training to become Coursers". Pick one, game!
46:00 they don’t even have to replace people though which is the worst part, considering they have the “watchers” which are literally synthetic crows that would act like UAV drones, and they have multiple cameras running all the time.
I also just had a little question about Virgil, why is he still wearing glasses as a super mutant? Isn't the mutation supposed to fix "weaknesses" in humans to turn them into an "idealized being"?
Funny, I just played an institute playthrough, mainly to play far harbor and see how that plays out. I doubt there will be anything unique. That being said I tried to play the game in the most logical sense. Immediately after vault 111 I began searching for Shaun and Shaun remained my priority until I needed to build the molecular relay and had to do some minutemen stuff. It didn't improve the experience 😅. I tried, but becoming director of the institute is built up so much only for you to achieve it and the position having no new responsibilities whatsoever. All that time supposedly getting ready to 'lead' the faction, and your reward is the same radiant quests. Just like every other faction.
Fun fact, there actually is actual content for that, if you're Institute director you can ask them if the person in Far Harbour who might be a Synth is actually a synth. Progress!
While im not a fan of Besthesda writing either cree. Theres a bit where i personally found it as short as it was actually giving more grey to the CPG situation. the wiki of course omits a institute holotape and fathers answer to if you investigated the CPG. So you were mislead by it because for once just almost that single moment a situation of wait the institute were actually not that bad? comes into the light. Because what it turns out was the broken mask incident was truly accidental and the institute felt bad that it happend and the light it put them in. But anyway what it also reveals was that the CPG was beginning to fail and the director of the time was shown the reports about its status. and the tone and words of the institute person that was part of the CPG program mentioned they needed to figure out what to do once the CPG crumbles which the person was sure of. and the mention was they at that time soon had the ability to put synths in mass to the surface to set up order in the face of any chaos that could erupt. which by how it sounded and worded once again was that the representative said that the INSTITUTE shouldnt give up on the surface and the people. Sucks when you want to search up the information theres a incomplete picture of the actual story there. But its the one bit i always felt was someone just kinda having a moment of good storytelling and making a good plot. Though its overshadowed by what the institute did anyways as you put out with constantly somehow not realising how they were self sabotaging like with the super mutants and so on. Because even with that information it paints a case of why were they seriously truly caring about doing something good for the commonwealth if they were actively doing some of these things. Either way just thought it was good to correct as there was more information there then you were presented 👍
Maybe if Bethesda had competent writers we could have something resembling good Fallout before the heat death of the universe. But humanity discovering a way to travel the other direction in time is more likely than Bethesda being involved in anything resembling decent anymore. Shame really, they were quite good 22 years ago.
The reason why the Institute feels like a bunch of random ideas thrown together into a messy, incoherent pile is because that is literally what it is. Emil Pagliarulo himself admitted that they had no central template around which they built the story of Fallout 4. In other words, the writers just kind of did their own thing individually and then they threw it all together.
I love this video as it perfectly encapsulates the doom spiral my brain goes on whenever I think about the institute. And it perfectly captures why Fo4 need a new head writer. Max Logan's point about synths not needing to eat or sleep is totally crushed by Curie telling you she still needs to eat, sleep and maintain bodily functions. And has a hard time adjusting from being an infallible robot... I can see that this video could have been at least another hour long
Virgil says that his intelligence is fading and that's the main reason he wants to become human again. Not sure how well this lines up with what we learn in fallout 1 though...
Oh no, the entire idea behind the Institute is kind of pozzed. Pagarlilio was probably sniffing his soylent vapors along the rest with the urbanite story writers who were raised on super hero comics when he came up with it. "What if like we like ask the science question like if robots can be humans or sentient like every other media these days like" Instead, the Institute can be easily tied with the OG philosophical question behind Fallout's identity, "How do we stop the closed cycle of violence which defines human nature?", or better, "why doesn't war change?" You had the Master in Fallout 1 try and answer it by creating perfect beings, NCR and the Legion tried creating a lasting society by betting on ideology. The Institute could've acted like an Panopticon, using it's synths as a way to infiltrate and take over groups and nations over post apocalyptic America and guide them in specific ways. Like taking and replacing Caesar and most of the people on top of NCR's hierarchy, guiding them towards specific goals and making them fight occasionally, but never to a point where they could destroy each other. It would have total control over post apocalyptic society and keep it in a constant struggle in a way where it can't lead to another apocalypse, hence the panopticon. But eventually leadership would succumb to pride and paranoia that they themselves could've been replaced which would plunge the Institute into anarchy and from there it's easy to find a way to fit in the player character.
This would explain the obsession with Gen 3 synths and perfecting artificial humans that are totally obedient like robots perfectly! Also tracks with their drone birds. Obsession with perfect order and cleanliness to contrast with the dirty and chaotic wasteland.
My favorite inconsistent detail is that at one point in the story sometime mentions that synths are immune to radiation (at least Gen1 synths, not sure about Gen3) and at the same time the story has Virgil hiding in the heavily irradiated Glowing Sea . . . Where synths can easily traverse because they're immune to radiation
Iirc there was written somewhere in the game that the “extreme Conditions of the Glowing Sea corrode Synths too fast to have them go there and take Virgil”, but yeah it is in contraction with the synth immunity to radiation thing
Maybe they just immune to like toxic effects of radiations
Likely is Bethesda That didn’t thought about it fully
This actually makes sense. It would keep people away who might spread rumors of an "intelligent super mutant" (according to Bethesda, there can only be one per game I guess). Also the glowing sea is full of hostile animals etc so that would make things difficult even for synths.
He hid there because the consistent radiation waves from the rad storms were interfering with the signal for the teleporter to reach and work over there. Also, dropping a bunch of synths in the glowing sea won’t end well considering the wildlife and ghouls which attack everyone. This is still inconsistent since when we do know the exact location of the cave we can still use the institute teleporter to get to points in the glowing sea. Virgil was probably presumed dead and was bioscience, so his going rogue wouldn’t put the institute at immediate risk
It still prevents humans and the vast majority of other beings that may be looking for him. Plus there are a ton of other dangerous things running around the sea that synths would have to deal with to get to him so it's still probably one of the safest places for him to hide from the institute.
They could fix it with a terminal entry that says teleportation is impossible due to the conditions. They could also say that Gen 1 is resistant but tends to get taken out by the wildlife, have trouble with navigation, etc.
In a scientific sense, a heavy duty robot is resistant but never immune and it is a big problem, which is why they used human volunteers irl for nuclear reactor issues. Synths wouldn't be designed to deal with that much.
The entire story crumbles in the beginning. It made no sense to take a psychotic cyborg into a vault filled with scared pre-war humans. The surrounding area is practically deserted. If anything, the Institute should have taken a medical team, a trauma counselor, and a squad of gen-2 synths for security. They wanted clean pre-war DNA, and yet they killed off an entire pool of test subjects with the exception of one baby.
to be perfectly precise putside the baby we have no fucking clue what did institute really want in that vault
or who is "old man"
and what shaun's parent is "a spare" for
They steal adults already. At least stealing the whole family would’ve given them a clean place to stay in a nuclear fallout situation. I’m sure they wouldn’t have protested to living in comfort as opposed to a nuclear ridden hell just for the price of blood and tissue donations.
The could have just taken the whole family and gave them incentive to let the use Shawn’s dna for the synth program. Also the whole vault was filled with non-radiated genetically pure pre-war humans yet they just murdered everyone for no reason. Like Kellogg just being this quirky, unpredictable moron like “omg I like totally felt like murdering people just because mercury is in retrograde. I’m like totally an asparagus.”
Such a ridiculous reason for him to just murder everyone for no reason, there’s no justification for his existence. They could have just sent the scientists with courser escorts who would not defy the scientist’s orders like a mercenary would.
You know what would have been an interesting story? If your spouse survived and you guys were a nice duo for most of the game. Leading to more characterization and intimate moments(or if you want to be a POS you can cheat on them with one of the many romancible companions). But then once you find Shawn, the spouse automatically sides with him out of blind parental love and now you have to make a decision of if you want to preserve your family by siding with the institute or the greater good and the sacrifice of Shawn and your spouse. With the spouse either taking up arms against you to defend the institute or choosing to die with Shawn when the place blows up. Maybe with the option of an incredibly hard speech check to talk them out of it to give players choice(like how you could talk Lanius out of continuing the attack with a perfect speech stat) but I think perhaps it could be an immovable decision. I could go either way on the last point.
And of course also falls apart when you realize that there's no way that them being that close to the blast they wouldn't have gotten irradiated. But why should we expect people who write about a serious taking place in the post apocalypse know anything about radiation?
@@NemoracStrebor Exactly. I remember Cree saying that in his Fallout 4 analysis and it makes sense. It was pretty much doomed from the start.
I say this again.
A group of goofy insane brain bots, are a more serious dangerous threat than The entire Institute itself.
You mean the Big MT Think Tank? They better be, that's why they were hired by the government in the first place.
A dead Mr House is more of a threat than the Institute
The Think Tank, as silly and over the top as the are, make for great villains because they had clearly articulated reasons as to why they do what they do. Insanity from being a brain in a jar for 200 years explains it all so we belive them as characters.
All these years later, I still don't know why the Institute does what it does other than someone needs to be an antagonist.
Why kidnap people and replace them with synths? Why make gen three synths? Wouldn't it be easier just to make more advanced Mr Handys? Why do they sabotage the Commonwealth so they don't develop?
They are made to be so mysterious that not even they know what their motivations are.
@@nickchavez720
The Father: You wouldn’t understand lol
@dyliokhan3946 cut to the institute being raided by the Brotherhood and Minutemen. The Sole Survivor approaches Shaun on his sick bed. He is visibly confused and distraught over how things have turned.
"Why did you do this?" He asks with a trembling voice. "How could you doom humanity? How could you betray your own son?"
The Sole Survivor sits down on the side of the bed and stares at Shaun wistfully. He leans in close and says, "You wouldn't understand."
And shoots him in the head with 44 mag, triggering the bloody mess perk and earning 50 exp points.
A particular thing that always bothered me is how you can never question Father about the FEV lab, specifically about why it was ordered to keep bodysnatching people in spite of the outcomes always being the same regardless of what the scientists tried differently. The sneaky androids are bad enough, but a century of intentionally dumping vicious mutants into the landscape who actively pulverize and eat people? And the boss man has the gall to plead Nate/Nora that the surface's sentiment towards the Institute is all just a misunderstanding and to give the Institute a fair chance.
Its because the writers never noticed. Because they never cared.
I swear that's because it was written by a different person.
Father is a narcissistic sociopath and he remains so throughout the entirety of the game. Unfortunately the only other consistency in Fallout 4 is how terrible the story is.
there is a lot of un finished content
@@creatorsfreedom6734 The game had at least two years to iron this shit out. There's no excuse.
If they've found out how to build what's essentially the perfect human body that doesn't age, needs no food, sleep, water, and is invulnerable to disease and radiation.....why don't they just upload their conscious to a synthetic body? Why didn't Shaun do that to stop the cancer?
Because: Buh muh slavery
That's their operant logic when they wrote the institute.
What you wrote is actually what I also came up with to fix Fallout 4.
The short of it is:
Synths are only a recent invention made by the newest branch of the Institute. Made with the express purpose of transferring the human consciousness into a bioengineered human body with cybernetic enhancements to better survive and eventually overcome the wasteland. The project was a 50/50 success and failure. It succeeded in making a few dozen synth bodies and transferring a few of the department directors' minds in them, but the rest of the synth bodies gained consciousness and broke out from the Institute. Becoming powerful and dangerous individuals. Either being formidable bounty hunters or leaders of minor factions.
They don't even know why they build synths. That's the most annoying part to me (which is saying alot)--there's never a reason for them to exist. You could tell a story about scientists doing something just because they could, sure, and everyone knows that scene of Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park, but the writers seem unaware that they forgot to give an explanation to basically everything.
That WAS the original plan, with Institute sections of the Commonwealth looking like the Garden of Eden.
I don't understand why you're suggesting this. Didn't you hear Shaun say they tried everything??
Because copying Old World Blues is bad mkaaay.
I think for me the major plot hole in the institute is that the head of a major division, the SRB, has been missing for 10 years and no one's worried about that.
Institute scientists look at their desk and say "Wow, that pile of paperwork is halfway to the ceiling, sucks for whoever is coming back to THAT."
I've met that guy, I wouldn't be in a hurry to find him either.
If the guy is missing for 10 years, then he's most likely dead probably killed by the Lone Wanderer or Harkness
@@johnlucas2838 Well yeah. They wanted to do the thing that would account for the player's decision in FO3.
Bethesda has this weird obsession with keeping the wasteland as eternal wasteland. No progress is ever made, best we have is small towns serving as hubs.
And that one to two brahmin the whole town feeds on
I think Bethesda views Fallout as Mad Max with a 1950s flavor. When in reality it's more akin to Judge Dredd.
That world was nuked too, but it didn't stayed a wasteland. Civilization came back in the form of the Mega-Cities.
@madarpauser2133 Imagine a Fallout Chicago where Chicago acts as Megacity One, having been kept under Martial Law by surviving military and avoided most nukes due to good defense systems in place and treated as low priority target…
In a vacuum I have no problem with that but don't make the game 200 years later it way to long of a time the story of fallout 4 would still work if it was 50-70 after with minimal changes. The same go for FO3.
They really want to tell a post apocalyptic story but they chose to make it 200 years later.
I have never hear a reason for that strange choice
Which is so annoying because Fallout 1 and 2 the world was improving and actually recovering with bigger towns and cities appearing. Fallout 2 is 160 years or so after the bombs dropped, but suddenly over 200 years later and things went backwards thanks to Bethesda.
BoS invades the Institute. Some random science guy be like "GET THAT SYNTH MOLD OUTTA HERE !"
I love the duality between 20 minutes of "The minutemen are flawed and weak" and the ONE HOUR PLUS INSTITUTE ASS-ROASTING
You could take the minutemen out of the game and it would be basically the same game, the institute not so much
The institute are just that poorly written. There's a lot to criticize.
@@kaizenregimen There is NoMinmen% speedruns
That's because the minute men aren't a faction unless you save Preston. There's literally NO interaction between the minute men and other factions outside the minutemen questline. Even then they aren't a faction so much as a radiant quest dispenser tied to the settlement system.
@@ZuluZizo yeah that's what I'm saying, if you delete the minutemen maybe the only thing that wouldn't make sense would be the settlement building mechanic... The institute is directly related to the main quest, which just makes its issues even worse
I really, really don't like how the synths you find out in certain locations will talk to themselves, stating that their sensors are too sensitive or not working right when you're in stealth. Or how they ask you to come out, even after they've been shooting at you. Or asking if anybody is there.
They're really just reskinned raiders.
Yeah. The whole point of robot enemies is they’re silent and efficient killing machines.
I find it kind of endearing. They're like the B1 battle droids from the Star Wars prequels.
There is no _practical_ reason for them to act that way, but it's passable as comic relief.
It's Emil. The guy is a disaster. He put out that the scene where the two soldiers in power armor shoots the kneeling guy.... yeah, soldier #2 was Nate. Seriously, according to Emil, Nate is a murdering war criminal. And when people slammed him for his statement, he goes (basically), "well, I thought it was cool". In other words, who cares about established lore, realism, believability and good writing. No, it's COOL.
TES;VI will be garbage. We know it because Emil is writing it.
Emil still has one of my favorite quotes to hate, the whole "paper planes" thing. I feel it really shows emils massive ego while also showing his ineptitude at just about everything lol
@@gatordragon6140
I watched a video that talked about Emil and his presentation he gave on writing. Talk about painful to watch. Point after point he put out I'm just wanting to tear the one last hair I have on my head out.
"Write what you know". Yes, because Bram Stoker knew about vampires and Mary Shelley was a doctor that knew how to reanimate the dead. Asimov was an astronaut that travelled the stars. HP Lovecraft met cosmic horrors.
"Keep it simple". Yes, because the stories in KOTOR, Mass Effect, and other great games people love were so simple. The LOTR trilogy one of the hallmarks of fantasy literature was simple.
I lost that one last hair. People wonder why Bethesda games with stories written by Emil are boring.
Wait, he actually said that? I just assumed it was twitter being twitter.
@@artyomsaveli9681
Emil and the other writers are so bereft of ideas, so creatively empty, they continually want to change the established lore to what they think is "cool".
I love having character traits baked into my RPG character.
You seem to be like one of the last Fallout UA-camrs that speak about Bethesda honestly. I really wish that there were more people like you in the fandom. Fuck Bethesda dude.
i do it as well. I just focus on putting out animated stuff inbetween doing Fallout New Vegas, Modded Fallout 4, and Fallouts 1,2, Tactics, and StarCraft content.
i honestly wanted to make a discord and entire series of going a quest by quest, place by place and design by design explaining why and how bethesda fucked it up
but all the effor in the world would have gone to waste when there's a literal army of millions braindead morons claiming that legit critique is hate and they are right and you are wrong because "they liked it"
they do not deserve to be saved
Yea even tks mantis has turned traitor and has bethesdas cock firmly in his throat..... He USED TO be very critical of it but now hes turned shill..... And defends them
There were two other channels that did, the one guy had a breakdown and dipped from the internet, and the other guy is fucking dead.
@@theoldguard6143 i found a channel that managed to save a few of Mr. Caption's Fallout and Skyrim videos. I go back to rewatch them from time to time.
My first encounter with the institute was two syths attacking me on site you think father would tell them to stop.
Ultimate prank
Funny thing, it works better if you have the unofficial patches and cut content stuff, before you make the institute your enemy the synths are supposed to ignore you, the voice lines and all are there it just doesnt work properly 99% of the time because bethesda
@@gatordragon6140 I believe it's the two in the random event we're their is a body of a wastelander.
@@RebelNutts-gg1xf if i remember correctly some gen ones do it rarely but you could be right, it has been ages since i played or modded fallout 4 lol
@gatordragon6140 the they spawn east of the medford memorial hospital
Here's a question about The Institute that very few have probably asked: Why do the synth vendors inside the labs trade in caps? Caps are used in the Commonwealth as a standardised currency, but the Institute doesn't invite people in for trading. They also don't seem to have any method of making caps, or a reason to even do so. They could use scrip, energy credits, or anything else at all. Do they use caps simply because the player will turn up there at some point, and have caps?
Yes.
That's really it. Because you, the player, use caps. Because it would too confusing to our puny little monkey brains to have different currencies for different places.
Mfw when FO2 had gold coins and Tactics had BoS scrips and ring pulls for outside of BoS traders, fucking sad how all was dumbed down to caps
It doesn't really make sense to even have the trader in the first place
@@kaizenregimenExactly.
Being their agent replacing Kellogg, the Institute would just issue the Sole Survivor their equipment.
1 long gun.
1 sidearm.
A fixed amount of ammo for both weapons.
A set of nondescript (meaning it doesn't advertise you as being from the Institute) but good armor.
The institute vendor then becomes a quartermaster. If the game detects you've used up your allotted ammo, or the game has deleted your issued weapons and armor after leaving it in the open world (you can't sell your weapons and armor for can you dismantle it for parts) then you can get new ones from them.
@@DJWeapon8 I don't know why they would issue you some set amount. You'd think it'd be more like "What do you need? Here's all the crap we've gathered that we don't issue to our synths, feel free to take whatever."
I think its clear that Emil did not want to make another Fallout game after FO3(and after being upstood by FNV). He wanted to make a Westworld game and he still fails at that.
Many people forget the Institute and Synths were introduced in Fallout 3.
@@GeraltofRivia22 The 1973 Westworld movie pre-dates Fallout 3. The newer TV show of course does not. I remember "The Replicated Man" and my point stands.
@@RadicallyMilkToast my point is he seemed to want to do that already back then and not because of anything to do with NV.
Westworld or Bladerunner... or I,Robot
Dont ask question, consum product, be excited for next product
I feel like the worlds gone completely insane/stupid, but videos like this and the community you've built help me not feel so alone. Cheers to another once great franchise dragged through the dirt, cheers to the glory it once held, and cheers to those still able to remember it's true face.
it's amazingly haunting how people look at a literal pile of shit and decide "wow that's amazing, the best thing i ever saw" and just dig a hole on that hill and die there
like why dude "perfect explanation with facts and logic"
-no you just a hater, but i like it, bethesda owns the ip they can do what they want.
what event in our history has caused people to become braindead morons with tastes and opinions copied only from worst media on internet
Have you seen Fallout London is released very soon?
I'm looking forward to it so damn much, as with 4s engine a decent fallout game would be awesome! Plus I'm from England so it would be cool to see a Fallout game set over here, I don't currently have a PC but I'm buying one on Thursday just to play it! 🤣 Check it out if you haven't already!
@@zakbrown9256 sadly fallout 4s upcoming next gen patch has currently put Fallout London on hold indefinitely.
@@pluribusunum2727That’s not true, it’s just been delayed for a while. It will come out, eventually.
@@B-zk9bt yes I know it will. “Indefinitely” means for an unlimited OR unspecified amount of time. We simply don’t know what will happen yet.
Already listened the whole bunch at work. Dont be afraid to upload the uncut raw footage of your commented reaction to the slop show that killed our souls. Got nothing better to do at work would enjoy listening to 6h of intelligent *sighs* about it.
Sincerely
Y'know what I would've done with the Institute? Make them ENTIRELY robots by the time we meet them. Humans have been completely phased out, and they possibly don't even realize it.
That would've been like OWB, which actually had a scrap of decent writing and labour put into it, so Bethesda would've never done that
@@valance10 OWB?
@@fearlesswee5036 Old World Blues, a Hoi4 mod. It's really fucking good. It implemented a trade system and currency long before the base game did
Oh man, that would be SO GOOD!
The lies they will tell themselves, the immediate suicide , some of them would commit once they find out the truth, the delusions they would engage in until you use their own surveillance systems to show them that none of the division heads have eaten anything drank anything or slept in any of the footage on record that goes back DECADES.
Add to that the idea that every important NPC in The Railroad would most likely have been a synth and you get 2 factions arguing about rights of synthetic humans not knowing that they ARE synths. All of them. Except one side fights for the rights of synths while the other one doesn't.
I was a bit upset when I became the leader of the Institute and I couldn’t actually do anything with my power. Can’t tell them to stop replacing people, or maybe send synth soldiers to protect farms? Nope, there is no impact on the world whatsoever
Skyrim was exactly the same. You become leader of half a dozen factions and can't actually change a single thing, just get even more boring fetch quests.
Typical Bethesda move. You're the boss now. No, you don't get to make any calls, but you get a useless room!
İ downloaded a mod and put 2 synth guards at each little farm in the Commonwealth, so they could be safe. İ did İnstitute + Minutemen ending and wanted it to look like as you finally start to use İnstitute to help people. İ am only upset about it only being possible with mods. İn my head canon they indeed stopped kidnapping people and replacing them when SS became the director. İ also got rid of Justin Ayo and made sure that synths are treated better. İ would happily occupy the İnstitute with the Minutemen, but unfortunately, there is simply no such mod on ps4 to do so. And destroying the İnstitute, all those technologies, creating another huge ass nuclear crater just near the Diamond City feels really idiotic.
As for "the three synths" , it really feels like 3 people worked on the characterization of synths, and never compared notes. That seems to have happened for everything in this game.
Dazed and confused? The game did its job.
Footage: *Destroying synths with a super sledge*
Music: Undertale - Metal Crusher
lmao
Curie's personal quest completely wrecks the Institute notion that synths are just machines.
Bethesda was very incompetent when they wrote lore for institute, but they somehow became very clear and deliberate when making a single companion quest?
The game beats you over the head with the fact that synths aren't just machines. Far Harbor even moreso. The only reason there is any dissent at all is to allow for Brotherhood and Institute options.
I don't think it wrecks the notion from a Bethesda writing standpoint, but rather draws from America's own past of slavery. There was a time were people thought it was okay to own other people because "black people aren't really people", and there's still a few that seem to believe this today. The Institute represents the bigots of America's slave-owning past. Right or wrong, those people exist. The flaw is the reality that people can be pretty shitty.
Its also kind of hilarious when you realize the gen 3 synths aren't really robots at all. From everything we are told about how they work, their biology, and how they are made, they are more bioengineered beings than robots. If the game was to actually acknowledge this and do something with this, it could kind of fix some plot holes with the Institute.
Curie in her synth body is basically proof that they're just lab made humans. She doesn't understand the concept of breathing, but her body does it anyway. She doesn't understand emotions, but she has them. She can blush, she can cry, she can fall in love. When you send her to a settlement, she needs food, water and a bed. She does, indeed, sleep.
This. The Gen 3 Synths could've been used for some incredibly intelligent writing, but just weren't.
Fabricated synthetic humans, just like in Blade Runner. The problem is that a lot of the writing contradictory treat them as machines unconstrained by human limitation.
@@theoldguard6143 "The Gen 3 Synths could've been used for some incredibly intelligent writing, but just weren't." Well, the lead writer was the incredibly _unintelligent_ yet absolutely full of hubris Emil, so...
To summarize this video: Emil Pagliarulo accidentally wrote a story about suspicion ... MicroSoft, please demote this clown.
I vividly remember my first playthrough being so excited about seeing the institute for the first time. It was going to be so mysterious, fascinating and alien. You could almost hear the glass shatter sound effect when the whole thing became such a huge disappointment so quickly. So hard to enjoy the rest of the game after that.
Shit man I was so hyped to find the institute, only to soft lock my game by trying to convince the scientist to join the brotherhood. Had to completely restart my play through
In all fairness, entering the institute for the first time was kinda breathtaking after trudging around the post apocalypse for so long. It's so clean and advanced and the design of the institute is genuinely kinda cool.
But yeah, the more you engage with it the more it breaks down. I still sided with them if for no other reason than to headcanon that after the events of the game my character turns that shit show around as their new leader
I do like the art, and the theme music is perfect. It's also interesting to overhear conversations of people questioning what they are doing.
Written by Emil "you wouldn't understand" Pagliarulo
I wonder if he also wrote the Railroad, where you get told that you've never met doctor Amari... even when you're far along in the main quest to have met her. And did Curie's quests, where you've met her... which is required to even be able to get Curie into a synth body in the first place.
I mean, really. Was it so hard to add a bloody check and do a few lines of alternate voice work? I mean, Glory even seems to recognize you if you joined the Railroad before doing Emergent Behavior.
@@BaconMinion That's what happens when the left hand doesn't talk to the right hand, and there's no clear vision for the game
@@XavierGoncalves89its worse than that.
They made it a point to *prevent* your left hand from talking to the right hand via disallowing the creation of design documents.
As far as the "why are they developing emotions" thing, I think the biggest weakness with how FO4 handles it (compared to some other stories) is the time frame we're given. I can forgive the issue not being given too much of an explanation in something like "Detroit: Become Human" or "I, Robot" because both the audience and characters are seeing the onset of the issue, and we're primarily seeing it through the eyes of people who also don't have much understanding of how/why it's happening. It's like a movie about a zombie outbreak, where it's something so unprecedented in-universe (and we're often following people who are in no way experts on viruses) that it makes sense why there might not be a concrete answer. But those stories tend to unfold over the course of a few days, at most maybe a few weeks/months, during which even the people who are experts with the A.I./viruses/whatever haven't had time to figure it out.
The Institute doesn't have that excuse. As you pointed out, this was already an ongoing issue that was happening frequently enough for the Institute to develop synths specifically to hunt down escaped synths ten years before Fallout 4. It's been going on for far too long with a group that's far too advanced and that has far too much investment in determining why it's happening for me to give it a pass.
I'm loving this streak of Creetosis content; can't wait to watch this after work
I also love that they evolved the laser rifle backwards as their one line of weaponry. Changed the laser to blue at the cost of damage and identical range, accuracy, and fire rate
Which is stupid. Only Synth shop provides a unique legendary Plasma rifle, Experiment A-21. So... why not give Institute all plasma weaponry? At least then making Institute plasma weaker will still make them viable weapons, especially if they're uniquely cheaper and have faster fire rate to Pre-War Plasma.
Again the problem of having no design document raises its ugly head.
The Institute as a whole would've worked if they were just a branch of the enclave that went a bit more freeform with the enclaves ideals after the events of Fallout 2 and NV.
It's actually rather stupid they name dropped Poseidon Energy as being a financier for the original Institute but had ZERO of the enclave's influence or even former enclave members in the institute.
There is quite simply, no reason for the Institute to continue building gen 3s when the 2nd gen serve their purposes and the 3rd has been nothing but issues.
And there's even dialogue between npcs about that, but it goes nowhere, like even the writers knew this was stupid.
Anytime the writers are faced with questions asking for an explanation that require thinking critically, they just cop out. "How are synths superior?" "Use your imagination." No - that's your job.
That's because Emil is completely incapable of critical thinking. Guy is dumb as a post.
So they send synths to the surface to strip mine areas of resources? Are there any areas in the game that are stripped down? The player is encouraged to collect resources in the same manner, surely the game devs could show an area having been strip-mined and have no loot available for the player to take
It would be a nice touch, but the game is coded to respawn all the items in any given area that isn't a settlement after a while.
@@BaconMinion my guy, my point is that devs can choose where items are placed and respawn. They could have easily had an area that was "stripped by synths" with nothing to collect, thereby showing the effect of the institute- throw in an NPC or two to complain/explain
which is even dumber when you realize they have rangeless teleportation devices yet choose to forrage resources from the boston area above them only where they have a better chance of being discovered. Their plans and existence makes no sense when you think about it for 2 seconds.
The toaster analogy for snyths and the way each faction handles them, has to be one of my favourite analogies of all time.
The head writer at Bethesda blocked me because I commented how Fallout 4's protagonist fails at being a blank slate for the player to experience the game through. I also mentioned how the writer should let the player have choices and wrote the story so that they get them. It's insane how he doesn't even try and defend himself, instead outright ignoring the issue. I'm sure I'd be a worse writer, but that doesn't mean we should settle for garbage
I doubt you would be a worst writer.
Don't sell yourself short, if you're over the age of 12 and haven't been shoehorned by into positions of power you did nothing to earn by being in the right place at the right time (or related to the right person), you are almost automatically a better writer than like 90% of professional writers. Writing rooms haven't had anything approaching meritocracy for a while now.
Don't be so sure. You'd probably write a better fallout
Was this after he said the Fallout 4 protagonist was the same guy from the Fallout 1 intro who helped executed Canadian POWs?
@@GeraltofRivia22 Yup!
"The problem with the Institute" ...Annnddd heeerrreee weeee gooooo.
My biggest issue with fallout 4 compared to new vegas is that in new vegas, the evil factions have clearly defined reasons as to why they do what they do, but in fallout 4, the institute always resorts to “ends justify the means” and what-aboutism, they can never truly define what their ends goals for humanity are, they are a bigger dead end than the brotherhood as they too have no goals for the future.
Ironically, the minutemen have a better goal for the future which seem to be destroying all nearby threats to the commonwealth to establish a government, hell, if written better, the minutemen could have been the east coast equivalent to the NCR, establishing supply routes and safe travel gives them room to expand, and by destroying the institute and making peace with the brotherhood, they can safely secure the commonwealth and strive towards a better future whereby they rebuild from the ashes of the old world and strive towards a better future.
But this doesn’t work, Bethesda simply didn’t care about writing a good story and just decided to make this terrible plot instead, which leads to the terrible writing we se win fallout 4.
I really want to like the Minutemen's humble civilizing goals and Preston's idealistic but depressed persona, but the underdeveloped implementation and annoyances are too much to bear.
Well the legion had poor reasons to why they where doing what they did but that was because their leader was crazy.
@@EdgeO419 No, they didn't. The fundamental issues of underdeveloped cultures causing problems and the developed cultures being corrupt and depending too much on pre-war tech was so relevant they could have made the Legion a completely non-villainous faction if they wanted to.
What's wrong with the Institute? It exists.
The way I see it, the Institute as a concept had potential to actually be a good addition to Fallout’s world, but with Emil’s writing and specifically the game’s obsession with synths (which generally aren’t good additions to the world), there was zero chance of that manifesting in Fallout 4.
Essentially, the Institute should ideally be a counterpart to the Brotherhood of Steel. The Brotherhood collects technology to preserve it for mankind in the future, and to lock away the dangerous stuff to try and prevent the same actions that brought about the apocalypse. In practice, though, they simply hoard the tech and don’t do much with it, not anything that extends beyond their ranks. The Institute is-or should be-the science faction that wants to actually DO stuff with their science: improve mankind, bring life to the wasteland…possibly unleash atrocities due to lost understanding of their science. At its best, this idealized version of the Institute would do the work to better the wasteland that the Brotherhood should be doing; at its worst, their failures are the reason the Brotherhood DOESN’T do that work, unleashing the very atrocities they hide tech away to prevent.
Choosing between the Institute and Brotherhood, at least, should’ve been a choice between progress and disaster vs safety and stagnation, ultimately coming down to your owns views. But no, everything had to revolve around synths and a replacement conspiracy that wasn’t even really happening. Emil at the helm was enough to tank the writing, but the synths as a center point ruined any chance at nuance in the factions.
That's literally the Followers of the Apocalypse.
@@GeraltofRivia22 Oh, really? Damn, I should actually play the old Fallouts, certainly interested. But yeah, FotA is not a faction I know…pretty much anything about. I’ve heard the name exactly once before, when HBomberguy was discussing the ending to the first game and how they played a big part in getting you in place to go confront the Master.
@@isenokami7810 The Followers are also in New Vegas - most notably the Old Mormon Fort and that hospital where you can get implants. But yeah playing Fallout 1 and 2 is very worthwhile and while they have their own issues, make FO3/4 seem a bit rubbish in terms of porting a lot of what people wanted - namely CRPG mechanics and writing.
The best part of the TV show is confirming these clowns got wiped out
Btw where exactly was it confirmed?
@@Algol871 the brotherhood airship floating around being eitheir A: the prydwin but renamed or B: the brotherhood having a second copy of the prydwin
@@ottovonbismarck7094 It's bethesda, there are infinite Prydwin because Prydwin cool, don't think about it it'll be fine.
The East Coast and West Coast Brotherhood are not the same. The West Coast one is far better equipped
@@daedalus6433 That's assuming Bethesda even cares about continuity at all, which they don't.
I think the more immediate problem with the explanation of the Corsair program is, if they are produced as strictly machines with set programming, why would there be any variation in what traits they show? Why would mass-produced robot models just have some specific units suddenly develop tenacity, fearlessness, or independence? That seems like it would be a production flaw, not personal growth, and they could isolate that flaw and reproduce it to purposely create as many as they wanted.
It's worse than that - if they believe their synths can even HAVE independence, then they should believe that they're more than just robots already! Mindless machines can't have independence by definition!
You know i would use synths in order to create an above ground institute with ones based on real scientist helping the wasteland while the real institute would be underground with normal people doing the shady stuff
A story about fake people having layers of deception? No one wants that, slavery is the subject people are absolutely not tired of hearing about.
A small caveat is synths do have slightly higher damage resistance than normal humans. This is one of the ways you can tell the Arts apart, by seeing which one would take less damage from a potential attack in VATS.
Wow, in the first few minutes you show how the dialogue writers and lore writers are not on the same page. It's a miracle that such a disorganized company even make barely(bugs and glitches) viable games.
They aren't viable they're backed by hords of "love it or get banned" crowds.
The Synths would be really obvious if they didnt eat or sleep.
Less than a minute later
Curie says she feels hungry.
So its impossible to make something meant to blend into society feel things like hunger and tiredness. Even if its not required?
I get the impression that there was as much disunity within the Institute as there is at a modern real world college. If they had played into that more, they might have been a more interesting faction with several sub-factions vying for control, each with their own definition for what the phrase "Mankind Redefined" actually means. If Shawn were older at the time that the bombs dropped, his philosophy could have reflected choices that the player character makes in the prologue.
This video sums up FO4 as a whole. A bunch of inconsistencies, no real accomplishment moments, no pay offs with appropriate consequences, and "smart people" doing abysmally dumb things. I would rather they have sacrificed a good quarter of the game we got if it meant the main story was better delivered.
Majority of the game is just radiant quest so not much lost
being unable to call anything out is even present in starfield. this issue isnt just writing. this kind of problem can only happen by design. you under no circumstance are allowed to step off the rails
Can answer this 7 seconds in. Almost everything
I wish youtube would translate what you said into a full sentence and not two fragment sentences.
You can answer this at 7 seconds in, mostly? Its 7 seconds in and hasn't even started talking about why
So maybe you mean all it would take is 7 seconds to explain? The fact you can't explain the sentence you are saying will tell me you can not do anything communication wise in 7 seconds. Other wise I wouldn't need to ask for clarification.
A sentence is composed of at least one proper noun, adjective and verb. Your sentence doesn't have a proper noun, only noun is seconds. Which might say anyone can answer this in 7 seconds, but again you should be more descriptive. Id rather read a book of full ideas a hundred times than read 2 grammatically incorrect sentences once.
@@jamesmeppler6375don’t care. Wasn’t a college thesis *shrug*
@@jamesmeppler6375and yes, I purposely did it again 😂 go read a book
@@jamesmeppler6375☝️🤓
Even dumb Europeans like me understood you perfectly. Average internet user IQ nowadays ..
I don't understand Bethesda's need to make you the leader of every faction when you have 0 experience and no control. Even when you become the leader of 2 factions (the Institute and the Minutemen) you are always doing whatever other people tell you to do and never make a single important decision.
They could just make fake person without the hassle of replacing someone. It's a waste land people can just pop out of nowhere.
Never finished the story but frequently had my settlements assulted by synths, and trust me I had rebuilt every fucking settlement that was possible, Preston Garvey made sure of it. That would have had me against The Institute from the start and have me bitch slap Shawn about saying rebuilding is impossible.
An East Coast Commonwealth/NCR-analogue with an Institute shadow-government sounds kinda awesome ngl. Sort of a darker reflection of the NCR.
"shadow government" is what I think they were tip-toeing around but never engaged with. If I stretch my imagination (and squint), I can see an unconventional Warfare mechanic in building the MM into something real.
Can’t wait for a video on Fallout amazon show 😉👍
11:16 It should also be noted that you can have the ART encounter MULTIPLE TIMES on a single character. At first I thought maybe I'd just over modded my game but one google search shows that this a vanilla feature experienced by many people. I'm not sorry, if a boogeyman organization is hellbent on replacing me, I'm leaving the Commonwealth.
Bethesda-and Tim Cain himself, to an extent-treats Fallout like a punk subgenre; there is no rebuilding, no getting past the post-apocalypse, there is only the wasteland. And I’m sincerely sick of it.
Yea you clearly dont pay fuckin attention then, in fallout of old people were rebuilding, and then of course bethesda comes along and say nah..... And youre so blatantly wrong about tim its astonishing..... Have you researched this past what your eyes see?
To my recollection, Tim was more of the gameplay designer and programmer for FO1 rather than the main writer/loremaster. I believe that title goes to Leonard Boyarsky if I'm correct.
EDIT: Tim Cain and Chris Taylor were the writers for Fallout 1. Tim has stated Fallout's approach was for what happens after the apocalypse (ie rebuilding civilization, factions staking their claim, ect). I've heard people claim it is a post post-apocalypse.
@@RadicallyMilkToast He’s listed as the producer in Fallout’s credits, and he and Chris Taylor are credited with creating the Fallout project, but regardless, he still said that the universe was getting too “back to normal” and wanted another apocalyptic exchange to reset everything.
I mean, even Fallout 1 had people rebuilding. Shady Sands was a productive, thriving village. The Hub existed, there was a monetary system using the cap with water as the backing. Fallout 2 had the NCR and Vault City and parts of LA. And these are only the small snippets of the world that we see, there could have been so many more.
It's only Bethesda that hates the very notion of anybody advancing in any real way.
@@BaconMinion Bethesda doesn't know the meaning of the word.
Unironically superior version of what Bethesda tried to do in Fallout 4 (asking the question if a synthetic man can be human) besides Blade runner
Is the Star Trek: TNG episode "Measure of a Man"
Yes!! Fantastic episode!
@@Creetosis 🙌
I was thinking of this exact episode through most of this faction.
So you're saying the Institute has about as much depth as its name suggests? That Bethesda couldn't even bother to come up with a proper name is telling by itself.
It is a proper name, it comes from the Commonwealth Institute of Technology, a fictional version of MIT.
Get that jelly mold out a here!!!
There's genuinely people who think that The Institute is actually the best choice for Fallout 4. I can't believe that people are that disengaged from the game they're playing that this Faction makes sense to them.
Its why i mod in the ENCLAVE to Fallout 4.
@@MLPDethDealr32 i think you spelled FO4 BoS wrong
@@ali18y84that is a horrific oversimplified thing to say, the brotherhood doesent poison water so innocents die, the brotherhood doesent just shoot civies who give them what they want, the brotherhood also doesent have a you can never leave us system lol, yes bos is bad but saying theyre enclave isnt true, the are similar but not equal, get rid of maxson and they no longer act like enclave lol
@@MLPDethDealr32the institute and enclave at their core are basically the same
@@MLPDethDealr32 America Rising is, unironically, better than all the quests in Fallout 4 combined. I cannot imagine the black magic required to make the assets in that mod work in the Creation Engine.
If this game had good writing, Father dying at the end would be an optional thing due to the mysterious serum from the Cabot House questline... even if it doesn't cure diseases, a 20-30 year old probably has a better chance against it than a 60 year old
That would mean, you know, have a central document that is updated with information on what was written to refer to. And a desire to have different outcomes for the story.
These are all things Emil doesn't like.
There's a good mod for this - "Subversion - The Institute-Railroad Alliance Alternate Ending".
@@BrettCaton Thanks... I'm gonna have to check that out
@@BrettCaton I used it, but it still left a bad taste in my mouth, because it has your character able to use a synth to replace Elder Maxon.
You know, one of those things that the alternate ending mod has the player character be against. But they do it anyway. For the sake of "peace".
I see video, brain releases chemicals
If memory serves, the Institute uses (Or used) those they replaced as fodder for the F.E.V. program. Keep in mind, they'd be doing that since before the Minutemen would have rose to prominence; I stress that, because that means they'd be running the same failed experiment for, what? Over a hundred years? Give Virgil credit, at least he understood how stupid that was.
You know, there’s a genuine argument for synths that don’t make them glorified Mr. Handies. And it is Nick. You have the key to a cyberpunk eternal life and you use it for janitors. Kind of makes the institute look like a bunch of idiots.
They've fallen into the trap that natural humans are somehow inherently superior. They're no better than the Enclave and their pure humanity in that regard.
Just a good thing I wasn't in charge. Nevermind the gen 3s, too resource intensive. 100,000 Gen 2s, that teleport tech. I would TAKE OVER the Commonwealth in a MONTH and RULE for a HUNDRED YEARS. You know until some...wanderer shows up a Fs it all up.
Hell, the fact The Institute can mass produce robots, body armor, and energy weapons should be SUCH a huge thing to bring up and make them an unassailable power it’s ridiculous. Also… where the hell are they getting the resources to make all those synths? The steel, the electronics, the components for those electronics…
I would accept Synths rebelling, growing free will under the following condition:
Institute harvesting people for particular post-war skills in order to implement those particular skills in surface agent Synths
(not taking the entire brains like in The Machinist questline in Robobrains in Automaton DLC);
if every skill would come with *some* memories attached, the patchwork Frankenstein-ed synth brain would contain incoherent, inconsistent memories, which would result in unpredicted behavior hence free will and escapes.
This is what I made up on the fly watching this video and somehow it's more consistent than a 100 million dollar video game.
"Mmh... i wonder if there's any mod to fix the base content of the game for this high seas version i am playing!" *sees mods made by thuggysmurf turning the institute into a night club with lore breaking music quality* "... nevermind, there's just different shades of bad execution."
It'd literally make more sense for the Institute to bioengeneer The Rake to kill everything on the surface and reclaim the surface for themselves with some kind of kill switch in The Rakes DNA than the somehow can make Super mutants and perfect copies of humans for no reason.
The fact that's it's 2024 and people still think Bethesda makes good games is crazy
Someone's got issues
@@MrMLaidlaware you replying to yourself from the past or...?
@@grundierungtaglich6241 Clearly not lol Typical response from this comment section.
@MrMLaidlaw Says the dude that likes their own comments.
@@DigitalApex Are you sure about that?
been loving your new vids cree, watched a few of your old vids years ago and I'm glad you've continued. I don't always agree with you but I respect your opinions, keep up the great work
The only thing i could think of as to why the institute was studying the topics it was, could be that they were looking to mass prpduce biological synths out of pure unaltered dna, and then use the FEV to create a massive number of hyper intelegent, hyper strong super soldiers that they could then use to conquer earth. However thats only my speculation
That's actually a great outline for a plan to save the commonwealth. I like it. I'd love to add it to my personal rewrite for Fallout 4, man.
Too bad Bethesda never bothered to write it into the game, let alone explain it to the player to get them to side with the Institute. Imagine doing this to House in New Vegas.
Rather than have him detailing his plan to you and explaining why he has you do the things he pays you to do if you ask him, he just says: "You wouldn't understand. Now shut up and do what I pay you to."
What? You mean you didn't program your roomba to feel pain and yearn for freedom?
Another flaw with Art’s encounter is if you have the awareness perk, you can tell who’s the synth because they’ll have high energy resistance.
The synth independence plothole is even deeper when you realize that the McDonnaugh synth requested to be a courser and was rejected because he showed too much independence and self thinking.
As much as I've gotten into this game it frustrates me so much with how sucky the writing is. The institute itself is so half assed that we don't know it's goals or anything really other than Shaun and synths.
For all the Institutes Faults, stopping the Cybernetics program in favor of creating Attractive Clone-Slaves was the worst.
Its like Shaun took over at 13.
In my version of the Institute, they're a truly altruistic organisation that wants to help humanity.
The supermutant, cybernetics, and synth programs have all been merged, and its now called the Prometheus Program. This program is quite recent, being only 10 years old and there are no multiple generations of synths.
The goal is to create artificial cyberneticallg enhanced superhuman bodies that are capable of reproduction for minds to be transferred into, so as to better survive in and subsequently conquer the post nuclear wasteland of the US, and in time, the world.
But things go wrong as the program and experiments went on.
The creation process of the compound resulted in several outbreaks that took many lives and created many mutated abominations in the surface.
The cybernetics program was leaked by a group of Institute personnel who subsequently escaped to the surface. In the following months, a black market of cybernetic enhancements have sprung up and caused dozens and dozens of medical malpractice incidents and horrific malfunctions.
Lastly, some synth bodies have somehow gained consciousness of their own and have escaped. Many of them causing havoc as individual actors, or becoming leaders of powerful gangs and crime syndicates.
But in the end, they got their artificial supermen, and all the program directors of the Institute have transferred their minds to the bodies. Every single one of them are now essentially high level Fallout player characters in terms of abilities.
This is so that there's actual pros and cons to the Institute, as well as asking variation of "Do the ends justify the means?"
A dark version of "If at first you don't succeed, try again."
Well they succeeded. But they tried many times, and many times they failed horrifically and accidentally brought on suffering and pain to hundreds possibly thousands of people.
They have toilet paper. I can look past every transgression.
they can't even hang it properly XD
CAN but do you? And if your loyalty is bought that easily youre the problem
@@themanwithnoname1839 loyalty to whom? Problem of what? What loyalty do you have to smelly wastelanders? What problem are you being a part of, when you side with the faction that provides you the best rewards and opportunities?
I rewatch your series on Fallout 4 a lot it's such an awesome breakdown and I'm glad you stuck it out - the first 2 parts especially are legendary haha
its actually shocking that the minutemen segment was less than 20 minutes, and the institute segment is over an hour. It really is that fucking bad huh
Edit: Also i don't recall if this was deliberate, or just how these segements were ordered in the video, or what. but it was pretty smart to drop a shorter segment, and then a marginally longer one, helps build a casual viewer up to watching the full analysis i think
32:39 "every *ounce* of voltage.", *OUNCE* ???? My dear Scientist lady, methinks you do not understand how to measure electricity.
The Institute is littearly just diet enclave with better tech.
Better how? They already have perfectly obedient robots, and when they slap a mind control helmet on a deathclaw it needs to get broken before the deathclaw is a problem for them again. The Institute might be making new technology, but it isn't even better than what was available in 2077, unlike what little innovation the enclave has managed.
@@trashmann9971 The Institute, from a pure lore standpoint has clearly better energy weapons, robots, and thr ability to teleport. The only pre war place that may have better tech is big MT. And I'm not even sure if most that tech was made before the war.
@@graye2799 why are those “clearly better energy weapons” have worse stats, than pre-war basic issue model?
@@max7971 I said in lore. Gameplay wise is a different story.
@@max7971the same reason the minigun is garbage.
I wanted to bring up something I recently noticed in my playthrough yesterday: Dyring your first visit to the Institute, there's a doctor testing pathogens on a gen 3 synth. After being injected with a new disease, the first thing the synth says is "Will it hurt?" The doctor responds with "That's your job to tell me," basically showing that the whole purpose of the synth is to report all the ailments the pathogen causes...but the synth didn't stay quiet and wait until it felt any pain before reporting it to the doctor, it asked "Will it hurt?" in anticipation or fear of what the injection will do.
The Institute is so braindead that they don't consider their creations are becoming sentient even when said creations are voicing their fear of pain. Why aren't clear signs of "defection" noticed almost instantly when it's one of the biggest problems the Institute faces?
The Institute: "Synths are just robots with no free will".
Also the Institute: "Synths that show tenacity and independence undergo training to become Coursers".
Pick one, game!
46:00 they don’t even have to replace people though which is the worst part, considering they have the “watchers” which are literally synthetic crows that would act like UAV drones, and they have multiple cameras running all the time.
The Institute is no where near as smart as they think they are. As for why make Humanoid robot that easy There just really smart -ex Dolls😁🤣🤣🤣😎
I do like your confrontation with Father on the surface when you tell him you saved the renegade synths
I also just had a little question about Virgil, why is he still wearing glasses as a super mutant? Isn't the mutation supposed to fix "weaknesses" in humans to turn them into an "idealized being"?
"Everything just works" Okay? 😂
The fact this video is an hour longer than the minutemen or railroad videos speaks volumes
Funny, I just played an institute playthrough, mainly to play far harbor and see how that plays out. I doubt there will be anything unique.
That being said I tried to play the game in the most logical sense. Immediately after vault 111 I began searching for Shaun and Shaun remained my priority until I needed to build the molecular relay and had to do some minutemen stuff. It didn't improve the experience 😅.
I tried, but becoming director of the institute is built up so much only for you to achieve it and the position having no new responsibilities whatsoever. All that time supposedly getting ready to 'lead' the faction, and your reward is the same radiant quests. Just like every other faction.
Fun fact, there actually is actual content for that, if you're Institute director you can ask them if the person in Far Harbour who might be a Synth is actually a synth. Progress!
You know if the synths have Shawn's DNA doesn't that make danse and curie (synth body) the solo survivor's grandchildren
While im not a fan of Besthesda writing either cree. Theres a bit where i personally found it as short as it was actually giving more grey to the CPG situation. the wiki of course omits a institute holotape and fathers answer to if you investigated the CPG. So you were mislead by it because for once just almost that single moment a situation of wait the institute were actually not that bad? comes into the light.
Because what it turns out was the broken mask incident was truly accidental and the institute felt bad that it happend and the light it put them in. But anyway what it also reveals was that the CPG was beginning to fail and the director of the time was shown the reports about its status.
and the tone and words of the institute person that was part of the CPG program mentioned they needed to figure out what to do once the CPG crumbles which the person was sure of. and the mention was they at that time soon had the ability to put synths in mass to the surface to set up order in the face of any chaos that could erupt. which by how it sounded and worded once again was that the representative said that the INSTITUTE shouldnt give up on the surface and the people.
Sucks when you want to search up the information theres a incomplete picture of the actual story there.
But its the one bit i always felt was someone just kinda having a moment of good storytelling and making a good plot. Though its overshadowed by what the institute did anyways as you put out with constantly somehow not realising how they were self sabotaging like with the super mutants and so on.
Because even with that information it paints a case of why were they seriously truly caring about doing something good for the commonwealth if they were actively doing some of these things.
Either way just thought it was good to correct as there was more information there then you were presented
👍
The only good thing about the institute is their x-01 power armor spray
Maybe if Bethesda had competent writers we could have something resembling good Fallout before the heat death of the universe. But humanity discovering a way to travel the other direction in time is more likely than Bethesda being involved in anything resembling decent anymore. Shame really, they were quite good 22 years ago.
The reason why the Institute feels like a bunch of random ideas thrown together into a messy, incoherent pile is because that is literally what it is.
Emil Pagliarulo himself admitted that they had no central template around which they built the story of Fallout 4. In other words, the writers just kind of did their own thing individually and then they threw it all together.
So sad Shawn has died of ligma
I love this video as it perfectly encapsulates the doom spiral my brain goes on whenever I think about the institute.
And it perfectly captures why Fo4 need a new head writer.
Max Logan's point about synths not needing to eat or sleep is totally crushed by Curie telling you she still needs to eat, sleep and maintain bodily functions.
And has a hard time adjusting from being an infallible robot...
I can see that this video could have been at least another hour long
Honesly, I'm still not sure who I hate more. The Institute or Railroad. Both factions are too dumb to exist.
Just do the normal thing and hate Preston. It solves all the problems.
The eternal battle between shit and piss continues…
@@Cloud_Seeker I just pretend he doesn't exist.
@@pantonearqm2791 Fair enough.
Virgil says that his intelligence is fading and that's the main reason he wants to become human again. Not sure how well this lines up with what we learn in fallout 1 though...
Institute invented FEV strain that Makes the intelligence far lower, it isn't the same one we see on West coast
Oh no, the entire idea behind the Institute is kind of pozzed. Pagarlilio was probably sniffing his soylent vapors along the rest with the urbanite story writers who were raised on super hero comics when he came up with it.
"What if like we like ask the science question like if robots can be humans or sentient like every other media these days like"
Instead, the Institute can be easily tied with the OG philosophical question behind Fallout's identity, "How do we stop the closed cycle of violence which defines human nature?", or better, "why doesn't war change?" You had the Master in Fallout 1 try and answer it by creating perfect beings, NCR and the Legion tried creating a lasting society by betting on ideology.
The Institute could've acted like an Panopticon, using it's synths as a way to infiltrate and take over groups and nations over post apocalyptic America and guide them in specific ways.
Like taking and replacing Caesar and most of the people on top of NCR's hierarchy, guiding them towards specific goals and making them fight occasionally, but never to a point where they could destroy each other. It would have total control over post apocalyptic society and keep it in a constant struggle in a way where it can't lead to another apocalypse, hence the panopticon. But eventually leadership would succumb to pride and paranoia that they themselves could've been replaced which would plunge the Institute into anarchy and from there it's easy to find a way to fit in the player character.
This would explain the obsession with Gen 3 synths and perfecting artificial humans that are totally obedient like robots perfectly! Also tracks with their drone birds. Obsession with perfect order and cleanliness to contrast with the dirty and chaotic wasteland.