Plane Takes Off WHILE ANOTHER ONE is CLEARED TO CROSS the same runway at Las Vegas!

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  • Опубліковано 8 кві 2024
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 536

  • @VASAviation
    @VASAviation  Місяць тому +1271

    KUDOS to that Frontier Pilot for his on top situational awareness... "How is a guy being cleared for takeoff on 26R if I'm about to cross it."

    • @Deionburns114
      @Deionburns114 Місяць тому +8

      1st reply

    • @rodcoulter997
      @rodcoulter997 Місяць тому +12

      F9 did NOT follow instructions. But..to “error on the side of caution” is acceptable. Just not what ATC had planned or expected.

    • @babygrrlpc5057
      @babygrrlpc5057 Місяць тому +26

      I just wish the pilot had identified “26” instead of mistakenly calling it “25”…still, great awareness. Very encouraging.

    • @Nebbia_affaraccimiei
      @Nebbia_affaraccimiei Місяць тому +3

      bit he also got told to HOLD SHORT ? so... yeah

    • @TDOBrandano
      @TDOBrandano Місяць тому +33

      Well, it was runway 25 until August 2017, maybe he's been flying in Vegas for a while.

  • @Xanthopteryx
    @Xanthopteryx Місяць тому +1193

    Pilot in 2517 was Extremely professional.
    First of all, he had situational awareness and reacted to the the conflict.
    Second of all: He did not say anything(!) about this, until he was over and the most important communication was ended. Everything is recorded so no rush to point it out straight away and mess other important things up.

    • @andy_in_colorado7060
      @andy_in_colorado7060 Місяць тому +8

      This. I think (I don't know, I am not involved with aviation) that it's crucial to get past any possible conflict before raising an issue that could have caused an immediate stress reaction in someone who is responsible for many lives. Get everyone on the same page, make sure immediate danger has passed, then when quieter say "hey, we need to raise an issue".

    • @diaphanoux
      @diaphanoux Місяць тому +3

      I do wonder what kind of disciplinary action is taken towards controllers?. This is your typical "Pilot Deviation Scenario" if it was the other way around.

    • @Flies2FLL
      @Flies2FLL Місяць тому +5

      +1!
      But he was also covering his ass. ASAP report time....

    • @Flies2FLL
      @Flies2FLL Місяць тому

      @@diaphanoux Retraining.

    • @AguadillaCGN
      @AguadillaCGN Місяць тому +6

      Hey tower, this is frontier, say when ready to copy a number

  • @ciriak
    @ciriak Місяць тому +759

    I was expecting him to say "Possible Tower deviation"

    • @seanmcnally5560
      @seanmcnally5560 Місяць тому +4

      Ha ha! Never heard that one before.

    • @Kalvarija
      @Kalvarija Місяць тому +44

      Do you have a pen ready to write pilot’s number?😊

    • @encinobalboa
      @encinobalboa Місяць тому +21

      "When ready to copy, I have a number."

    • @rudiklein
      @rudiklein Місяць тому +5

      Tower needed more incoming telephone lines lately. 😅

    • @sailingeric
      @sailingeric Місяць тому +1

      Then followed by the number to Truck Masters😂

  • @joshish9884
    @joshish9884 Місяць тому +446

    Excellent work from the pilot on FFT2517. Situationally aware and took action when something didn't sound right. Potentially lots of lives saved. I suspect the controller thought he'd instructed them to hold-short instead of cross. Altogether seamlessly caught and fixed. Very well done and very professional way to bring it to the controller's attention.

    • @rabidtangerine
      @rabidtangerine Місяць тому +7

      Potentially that, although they did mention the aircraft holding in position. It's possible the controller got mixed up from the other aircraft calling ready at 26L. Or simply the fact that they're at opposite ends of a big runway and the controller simply forgot he told them to cross. It's amazing how quickly past information can leave your mind when you're in a fast-paced environment (and perhaps fatigued or not at your 100%).
      But yes perfect job from 2517.

    • @joshish9884
      @joshish9884 Місяць тому

      @@rabidtangerine yeah, that's a great theory too.

    • @Kalvinjj
      @Kalvinjj Місяць тому +2

      That or moving stuff around as quickly as possible, and thought FFT2517 would have crossed fast enough by that point (an assumption I wouldn't make but well, I'm not the controller either), considering the high speed exit taken, if I'm not wrong on that.
      Too risky in my opinion, glad the crew in FFT2517 was thinking quickly there.

  • @overthetip
    @overthetip Місяць тому +483

    The pilot was clearly shaken. In fact, you can clearly hear him call the runway "25 R" instead of "26 R", twice. That suggests he's quite familiar with LAS because the current runway 26 R was indeed called 25 R until 2017.

    • @cibularas3485
      @cibularas3485 Місяць тому +4

      26 and 25 are 10 degrees difference

    • @MKnew099
      @MKnew099 Місяць тому +155

      @@cibularas3485 They probably changed the name due to the natural change of Earth's magnetic poles, which are used to number the runways. This suggests the pilot has been flying at that airport for a long time.

    • @karlosbricks2413
      @karlosbricks2413 Місяць тому +52

      Likewise the old FAA terminology 'position and hold' when explaining the incident to the ground controller. We all revert back to instincts/basic training when under stress.

    • @VASAviation
      @VASAviation  Місяць тому +163

      @@cibularas3485 26 and 25 can be as close as 1º difference only

    • @overthetip
      @overthetip Місяць тому +48

      @@cibularas3485 you round it to the nearest decade. Earth's magnetic field drifts with time, so periodically runway numbers have to be updated accordingly. Let's say that particular runway in 2016 was making an angle of 254.9 degrees with the magnetic nord. The closest decade is 250, so its number would have been 25. Now, in 2017 such angle might have increased to 255.0 deg which must be rounded up to 260, making the proper name 26.

  • @manifestgtr
    @manifestgtr Місяць тому +99

    That was perfection on the pilot’s part. Calling up to let them know they effed up without saying “you effed up” and actually even kind of posing it as a “did I hear everything correctly” inquiry. He likely knew exactly what was happening but that was a good, non-escalating way to frame it for the initial contact. No need to stir the pot on frequency…

  • @blancolirio
    @blancolirio Місяць тому +130

    Classic LAX Nightmare Scenario...
    Great Capture Victor!

    • @manifestgtr
      @manifestgtr Місяць тому +11

      LAS nightmare scenario, as it were ☝️

    • @JGB1990
      @JGB1990 Місяць тому +2

      @@manifestgtrthis exact same scenario could play out in LAX, and is more likely there even though this was LAS

    • @abowden5079
      @abowden5079 Місяць тому +2

      What's our vector, victor?

    • @manifestgtr
      @manifestgtr Місяць тому

      @@abowden5079
      ROGER

    • @schumi246
      @schumi246 Місяць тому

      @@JGB1990it could play out at ORD, ATL, CDG, anywhere that has pairs of parallel runways, like this. Not as likely at DEN, as the runways are laid out and used in a way that you don’t have to cross a runway on your way in. For instance, if two planes are landing on the 16s, the plane on 16R, would taxi down and around the opposite end of 16L. On the other side, landing on 35R, you taxi down and around the end of 35L. Sometimes you’ll have a plane land on 17R, and one take off on 17L, taxi for takeoff on 17L is just the opposite of landing on 35R, going around the end.

  • @737Parkie
    @737Parkie Місяць тому +74

    This is why we don’t blindly cross active runways without checking. Just because a controller crosses you doesn’t mean it’s clear. I did a go-around years ago because an MD80 crossed my landing runway when I was about 300’ from touchdown. Kudos to the Frontier pilot.

    • @TheFamilyman7
      @TheFamilyman7 Місяць тому +1

      Being an aviator is not unlike being a golfer. They self-report ( the honest ones ) their errors and hold other duffers accountable. I like it.

  • @owenmerrick2377
    @owenmerrick2377 Місяць тому +105

    Good thing Frontier 2517 was still on tower freq even after being told to switch to ground, to hear the takeoff clearance and the last moment hold short. "Tower, I have a number for you to call." A lot of voices on here could be reading out the fine print advisories on ED commercials...

    • @edNdr
      @edNdr Місяць тому +26

      I believe that instruction usually meant cross runway THEN contact ground.

    • @KCFlyer2
      @KCFlyer2 Місяць тому +6

      @@edNdr Yep....good job on the Frontier pilot - cross runway and contact ground...so he stayed on frequency until he was across the runway.,

    • @lammie001
      @lammie001 Місяць тому +3

      @@edNdrHere in AMS it is always the instruction ‘after crossing contact’ … you never cross an active runway on ground freq.

  • @guiguigui93
    @guiguigui93 Місяць тому +15

    Las Vegas Tower hold, Hold, HOLD!!!!

  • @der.Schtefan
    @der.Schtefan Місяць тому +37

    At this point they all know this will end up at this channel anyway 😂

    • @KennethAGrimm
      @KennethAGrimm Місяць тому

      ATC gets his "Fifteen minutes of fame"

  • @tomriley5790
    @tomriley5790 Місяць тому +18

    Very well handled from the Frontier pilot, not only did he appreciate what was happening and stop, he waited until all the communications had died down before querying it, most importantly though he stayed on the tower frequency until he'd crossed the runway before switching to ground...

  • @jorgensakshaug
    @jorgensakshaug Місяць тому +64

    I don’t understand why this happened
    I’m a atc for reference, and controller here had no rush to depart the first aircraft as after its departure he lines up a 2nd one.
    If there was a aircraft getting close on final I’d understand.
    But I’d still prioritize “Frontier (callsign) cancel runway crossing clearance, hold short of rwy 26R” then give take-off clearance but as mentioned earlier this doesn’t seem to be the case
    Good on Frontier Pilot listening out on the frequency

    • @nickcarey4566
      @nickcarey4566 Місяць тому +3

      There may be traffic landing the crossing runway, 19R, behind Sun Country. We hear him ask them to exit at Y, which frees up 26R for Spirit to depart. Spirit would need to be through the 19R intersection before the next arrival crosses the threshold. I’m don’t mean to make excuses for the error; he obviously fell for the age-old “hit-the-gap” trap. But there’s obviously context that the clip is missing.

    • @georgeforall
      @georgeforall Місяць тому +3

      You're " a ATC" ??? right! 🤣

    • @happycanayjian1582
      @happycanayjian1582 Місяць тому

      True. You obtain the hold short instruction first, then you clear the other guy for takeoff….

    • @NICU_Guy
      @NICU_Guy Місяць тому +1

      @@nickcarey4566 There was no "hitting the gap". He clears Frontier 2517 to cross 26R, clears the Spirit 396 for takeoff, then tells Frontier 2517 to hold short. After the Spirit 396 takes off and clears Frontier 2517 to cross 26R, he tells Spirit 2123 to line up and wait. Nowhere after he clears Spirit 396 for takeoff do you hear about any aircraft landing on the crossing runway, unless they trimmed the audio.

    • @jorgensakshaug
      @jorgensakshaug Місяць тому +1

      @@NICU_Guywell yes while we don’t hear a mention of inbound traffic, I find it interesting the “No delay” in take of clearance as usually in my tower use that only if we really need to depart someone. It could’ve been that the atc wanted to depart both of the Spirits prior to a arrival and for that to work the first had to expedite its departure
      Buuuut it’s also America and some things are very different compared to the EU

  • @tastysnivel
    @tastysnivel Місяць тому +108

    Sometimes it is better not to hurry crossing runways.

    • @JMcC64
      @JMcC64 Місяць тому +4

      Isn't it SOP to look both ways before crossing a runway?

    • @LeTangKichiro
      @LeTangKichiro Місяць тому +8

      @@JMcC64 Yes, but if traffic is lining up and holding on the runway while you start crossing, you can't just make your plane disappear when holding traffic gets a takeoff clearance.

    • @RetreadPhoto
      @RetreadPhoto Місяць тому

      Especially when your last command was to hold short, and your copilot acknowledged it.

    • @amg2022
      @amg2022 Місяць тому

      Ideally and I do it but there’s a bad culture of folks that will give you a TON of grief for it. The FAA needs a revamp just like Boeing.

    • @Wolfeson28
      @Wolfeson28 Місяць тому +3

      @@RetreadPhoto Frontier was only told to hold short *after* the other plane was cleared for takeoff. They had initially been told to cross the runway, then Spirit Wings 396 was cleared for takeoff on the same runway, and THEN the tower remembered Frontier was there and told them to hold short (which they'd already done on their own because they heard the takeoff clearance issued).

  • @carygutnick8284
    @carygutnick8284 Місяць тому +78

    I’m sure the controller got a discussion with the supervisor about that. It’s good thing he did stop the frontier or if he didn’t, spirit would have had to cancel take off clearance quickly.

    • @MarkPentler
      @MarkPentler Місяць тому +38

      Frontier already was stopping before being told to. He says this in the video you've just watched.

    • @carygutnick8284
      @carygutnick8284 Місяць тому

      @@MarkPentlerno the controller told him to hold short once he cleared spirit to take off

    • @XJRSuper
      @XJRSuper Місяць тому +29

      @@carygutnick8284by that point the frontier had already stopped of its own accord. Listen to the pilot at the end again.

    • @marcellkovacs5452
      @marcellkovacs5452 Місяць тому +4

      ​@@carygutnick8284 literally just watch the video and you'll first hear the takeoff clearance and then the hold-short instruction, then the pilot will repeat what happened to the ground.

    • @4ndr_s
      @4ndr_s Місяць тому

      The pilot at the end said that he had already breaked when he was told to hold short of runway ​@@marcellkovacs5452

  • @enricomosca4674
    @enricomosca4674 Місяць тому +14

    In the past decades we saw nasty shit happening after saying "cross the runway and contact ground". That's why now we keep the tfc in contact on TWR frequency 'till he vacates the runway. Main EU airport ATC here.

  • @Pbairsoftman
    @Pbairsoftman Місяць тому +40

    Hey, maybe the Frontier x Spirit merger woulda happened anyway!

    • @boctopus9823
      @boctopus9823 Місяць тому

      Oh shit

    • @Astro95Media
      @Astro95Media Місяць тому

      Damn lol. And this one would've technically been FAA approved!

  • @kennyr5906
    @kennyr5906 Місяць тому +33

    Low key they tried to sweep it under the rug. You can hear the controller issue a new holding clearance at 0:46. He messed it but fixed it later. Now if FFT2517's cap wouldn't have been proactive and would've actually followed the first instruction they would've been in the middle of the runway by the time they stopped. Kudos on those guys for monitoring tower and stomping on the brakes.

  • @JohnLemieux
    @JohnLemieux Місяць тому +9

    Pilot was right, he got cleared to cross 26r, then ATC told the other pilot to takeoff, and only THEN did ATC tell frontier to hold short (which it could have been too late to do). Good looking out pilot

    • @GigglesClifton9
      @GigglesClifton9 Місяць тому +3

      It's even worse. He told him to hold short on a frequency he'd already told the pilot to leave (to cross over to ground)! This was so nearly an accident.

  • @allaboutaviation787
    @allaboutaviation787 Місяць тому +3

    Excellent job by the Frontier pilot listening out on the frequency for potential conflicts.

  • @a_goblue2023
    @a_goblue2023 Місяць тому +4

    100% on the tower, he told 2517 to cross 26R, then cleared the plane holding in position on 26R to take off, luckily 2517 was paying attention

  • @cageordie
    @cageordie Місяць тому +51

    Yup. Nothing wrong with his ears.

  • @JH-in5oq
    @JH-in5oq Місяць тому +130

    Controller knew he messed up. He was trying to keep it under the radar hoping nobody would say anything.

    • @rodcoulter997
      @rodcoulter997 Місяць тому +6

      Nope…ATC instructions to “keep it rolling,cross 26R, and contact ground …point 1=121.1 does NOT mean stop and hold short at the A6 Hold Short Line. 80% of the time, you HOLD SHORT right there with the Tower.
      Done that EXACT Runway crossing 100s of times. F9 stopped when he should have “kept it rolling” and crossed 26R then contact LAS GRD in 121.1. No harm, no foul. ATC is very good in KLAS and keep ‘em rolling.” Classic “Expectation Bias”

    • @jonesjones7057
      @jonesjones7057 Місяць тому +21

      ​@rodcoulter997 I don't know, if the pilot kept rolling but hadn't made it to the crossing runway yet and then heard a clearance for the other plane to takeoff, that's definitely worthy of stopping. Maybe he slow rolled it and threw off the cadence of the flow but whatever, it's been a S show out there lately (everywhere).

    • @TheCatAliasTNT2k
      @TheCatAliasTNT2k Місяць тому +20

      @@rodcoulter997I am not a pilot, but if a plane got permission to cross, not other plane should have permission for takeoff at the same time.
      Sometimes, you get a landing clearance while another plane is on the runway, that is ok, because when you reach the runway, it will be clear (or your clearance will be revoked).
      But takeoff clearance in this situation? I do not think, this was the correct way to do it...

    • @johnbidwell2393
      @johnbidwell2393 Місяць тому +17

      @@rodcoulter997 Are you sure about that? FFT2517 pilot said he was about to cross the hold short line when the other aircraft was given takeoff clearance. What if he hadn't jumped on the brakes when he did and ATC had instructed him to hold short while he was halfway across?

    • @rodcoulter997
      @rodcoulter997 Місяць тому +2

      @@jonesjones7057100% agree..80% of the time, end up stopping and HoldShort at A6 or A7 with the Tower. Better on the side of caution. Not faulting either ATC or the FlightCrew. “Expectation bias on both sides”…

  • @andrewdavidson7656
    @andrewdavidson7656 Місяць тому +10

    ATC did clear frontier to cross before clearing spirit to take off and changing frontier's instructions. Good job on the frontier crew catching that before spirit started rolling and avoiding a dangerous conflict.

  • @hatpeach1
    @hatpeach1 Місяць тому +38

    The different voices for 2517 make this a bit tricky to understand. Sounds like maybe the first officer was handling the communications, 2517 did the right thing by holding short when instructed to "keep it rolling," then the captain called the tower to point out the conflict?

    • @VASAviation
      @VASAviation  Місяць тому +38

      Definitely the Captain having that conversation with Ground

    • @TheSoaringChannel
      @TheSoaringChannel Місяць тому +1

      That's what I'm gathering. It's what I would've done. "Hey man... I got ATC for a second I want to ask him exactly what happened."

    • @rinleez
      @rinleez Місяць тому +3

      The controller realized he messed up and told the 2517 to hold short after letting the other plane roll, but dear lord. He just muttered out the hold short instruction and didn't seem to say it with any urgency whatsoever, like it was just another Tuesday for him. Quite shocking. Usually in situations like this, when controllers spot a conflict late, they'd at least raise their voice and yell at one of the crew to stop.

    • @qwerty112311
      @qwerty112311 Місяць тому +2

      @@rinleezF9 had already stopped, urgency was 0, CYA was not 0.

    • @rinleez
      @rinleez Місяць тому

      @@qwerty112311 What the hell is CYA? F9 may have stopped, but you can't read minds and you don't know what they're gonna do next.

  • @xVoLxPaYnE
    @xVoLxPaYnE Місяць тому

    Great situational awareness by that pilot 🎉

  • @MBourner
    @MBourner 26 днів тому

    By stark contrast to the recent New York incident of a similar nature, this is a perfect example of why all runway movements MUST be given on the same frequency. It allows one hole in the Swiss cheese to be closed when pilots can be situationally aware what is taking place.
    Mistakes happen, we're all human. Allowing an opportunity for those mistakes to be spotted is vital, as demonstrated here by an extremely professional and observant flight crew. Kudos to them for the way they handled it.

  • @bd5289
    @bd5289 Місяць тому +30

    Frontier was 100% right!

  • @DirectorOfFUN1
    @DirectorOfFUN1 Місяць тому +1

    Your vids are great. Thanks for all your hard work

  • @Wolfenkuni
    @Wolfenkuni Місяць тому

    If unsure, hold short. Good awareness by frontier.

  • @pauljones6321
    @pauljones6321 Місяць тому +31

    ATC, formerly, rarely screwed up. Now it is a several times/day occurrence. Be on your A game at all times pilots! Only a matter of time until the chain breaks.

    • @commerce-usa
      @commerce-usa Місяць тому +2

      Why do you think this is happening? Dependence on tech? Training? Something else? Curious to get insights from someone who has done the job.

    • @elcheapo5302
      @elcheapo5302 Місяць тому +2

      @@commerce-usa The standards are much lower than they used to be. I'll leave it at that.

    • @icedandcorrectedchannel1236
      @icedandcorrectedchannel1236 Місяць тому +9

      I mean, with the FAA understaffing, mandatory over time, 6 day work weeks, ofc there are gonna be problems. Controllers aren’t able to take breaks like they used to, barely having any time to rest, especially in busier airspace. Until the problem is resolved you’re gonna see the evidence of the burnout. Unfortunately the FAA won’t care until people really get hurt.

    • @anthonyd5189
      @anthonyd5189 Місяць тому +11

      @@icedandcorrectedchannel1236 This is it right here. Controllers are working 6 day weeks, sometimes all of them 10 hour days. Facilites are short staffed so breaks are short and don't come as often as they should. Because of the staffing issue some facilities are just "pushing" people through even though they may not be ready yet. The schedule they work isn't great, 9 hours between the quick turn shifts which realistically you might get 6-7 hours of sleep between. There are a lot of "issues" but the FAA/NATCA refuses to address them.

    • @RegularItemShow
      @RegularItemShow Місяць тому +7

      I also think you just didn't hear about it as often because no one had a channel like this dedicated to every little (or huge) mishap. 😊

  • @fikipilot
    @fikipilot Місяць тому +1

    He sure did. Pilot was correct and was great at being proactive!

  • @ravagetalon
    @ravagetalon Місяць тому +6

    Really heads up awareness by that flight crew. It takes a village. Controllers can make mistakes too. Turn an avoided tragedy into a learning experience.

  • @tchevrier
    @tchevrier Місяць тому +2

    pilot: "tower, when you have a moment I have a number for you to call"

  • @ropersonline
    @ropersonline Місяць тому +3

    I wonder if ATC screw-ups were always this common, and if it's only because of UA-cam and VASAviation, etc. that we're finding out about scary situations like this.

  • @TheFlyingZulu
    @TheFlyingZulu Місяць тому

    Local controller for sure got in trouble for that one... Ouch. Good job on the pilot for active listening right there.

  • @PhillyMotoXTS
    @PhillyMotoXTS Місяць тому

    I was waiting for that pilot to say "Tower, Frontier 2517, standby to copy down a phone number". Very well handled by the Frontier crew!

  • @CapStar362
    @CapStar362 Місяць тому +38

    Kudos to 2517, saw the conflict, reacted to the conflict, verified his instructions AFTER critical events, didn't argue it excessively, to me, missed one important step - "Please Pull the Tapes" this tells them get a Super Involved because that was clearly an ATC Error.
    Otherwise nice job

  • @bigphilnyc
    @bigphilnyc Місяць тому +2

    I would love to get a follow up on this.

  • @tenpiloto
    @tenpiloto Місяць тому

    Listen to ALL communications!!! Those who do, like this crew who did, save lives!!

  • @RR-zq3mk
    @RR-zq3mk Місяць тому +2

    Well if the plane animation is correct that frontier pilot taxied slow AF. It’s called a high speed. Tower says keep going you keep going. Once tower found how how slow they were going he told them to just hold short. Freaking pay by the hour airline guys. Always freaking slow.

    • @VASAviation
      @VASAviation  Місяць тому +4

      The animation being correct or not, the high-speed is the exit (to squeeze landing traffic behind) but not for the following taxiways. Mi aircraft, my taxi speeds. No way I am putting my aircraft in danger because ATC says "keep it rolling"

  • @craig7083
    @craig7083 Місяць тому

    I once was cleared to land on 18 in a C152, 1 mile final. Then they cleared a Piper to land to 36. I called back and they confirmed my landing instructions. At a half mile out I saw the Piper Turbine Meridian exiting the runway! They had plenty of time to get that fast plane ahead of me.

  • @Hartbreak1
    @Hartbreak1 Місяць тому

    Wow some people here arguing just for arguing’s sake. Frontier was given a clearance by ATC to keep going and cross rwy 26R. Then ATC cleared the other flight for takeoff on rwy 26R without first telling the Frontier plane to hold. It was after the takeoff clearance was given that the Frontier plane was told to stop which is incredibly dangerous. The correct action was to tell Frontier to hold first and make sure they weren’t past the hold line before clearing the other plane for takeoff. Like the pilot said to ATC that was a conflict because for the time it took between the takeoff clearance and the hold short instruction there were two aircraft cleared to be on the same runway.

  • @zorro4962
    @zorro4962 Місяць тому

    Props to the Frontier pilot. Situational awareness

  • @maydayay
    @maydayay Місяць тому +3

    Intelligent pilot.

    • @RT-qd8yl
      @RT-qd8yl Місяць тому

      Hopefully there won't be some sort of retribution against him by the feds in the future

  • @smartguy96
    @smartguy96 Місяць тому +8

    One probable contributing factor to this is that LAS is overcrowded and gets very congested several times every day. It's entirely conceivable that the tower controller was trying to clear a backlog of 10+ departures while approach is handing him arrivals with minimum separation. Throw in the clearance referencing taxiway Y which indicates the crossing runways are also in use (and being worked by the same controller!) to further complicate things, and that's a lot of pressure to keep everyone moving.

    • @YouveBeenMiddled
      @YouveBeenMiddled Місяць тому +2

      Gotta do it right. Getting it done quickly is secondary and optional.

    • @bosshog8844
      @bosshog8844 Місяць тому +1

      These are problems that managers and companies need to worry about. ATC needs to slow things down and not fold under pressure by suits.

    • @davedoe6445
      @davedoe6445 Місяць тому +1

      this is why humans should be removed from the loop, controller computers should talk directly to aircraft autopilots

  • @z33511
    @z33511 Місяць тому +33

    It's only a matter of time...

    • @soccerguy2433
      @soccerguy2433 Місяць тому

      that saying is always correct. it's functionally useless. ITs only a matter of time someone wins the lottery. It's only a matter of time until X event happens

  • @lammie001
    @lammie001 Місяць тому +3

    Yet when a pilot makes a mistake ATC cant wait to talk about it lengthy on frequency in a condescending way and finish with giving a telephone number

  • @youngypaul
    @youngypaul Місяць тому +2

    Tower I have a number for you when you’re ready to copy.

  • @ragheadand420roll
    @ragheadand420roll Місяць тому

    Kudos to the SPIRIT pilots to remain professional while passengers are relieving themselves in the aisles 😂

  • @thomascharlton8545
    @thomascharlton8545 Місяць тому +2

    Keep’n aircraft from sharing the same space at the same time in a high density environment with verbal communications is beyond its limit. Got’a figure out a better way sooner rather than later.

    • @asdfssdfghgdfy5940
      @asdfssdfghgdfy5940 Місяць тому

      At some point in the future AI will definitely be involved. There will be a lot of kickback from people, but AI is more than capable of this, especially if it's just handling ground traffic and maybe tower. Obviously humans will still be involved but having a computer to say no, bad idea to think a like this would save a lot of incidents from happening.

  • @Naamenrugnummerbekend
    @Naamenrugnummerbekend Місяць тому +2

    We hebben een nummer voor de toren 😂

  • @hannespretorius7988
    @hannespretorius7988 Місяць тому +36

    Possible ATC deviation . Should have asked for the guy’s phone number .

  • @FrankRuiz66
    @FrankRuiz66 Місяць тому

    Good job by that aviator..

  • @cmenting
    @cmenting Місяць тому

    What that Frontier pilot did was maintained 'listening watch'.
    He was the one who stopped short of the rwy (even before ATC told him to hold short) having heard ATC giving Spirit take off clearance.
    Seems like ATC forgot that he told FFT to cross and quickly tried to correct it by telling him to hold short, after clearing Spirit for take off.
    ATC should have ensured FFT was clear of rwy or give that hold short instruction prior to clearing spirit for takeoff.
    Kudos to the FFT pilot.

  • @Towert7
    @Towert7 Місяць тому

    Seems the controller forgot he cleared Frontier to cross 26R. Glad the pilot caught it! Sometimes two heads in the game are better than one.

  • @pal2011
    @pal2011 Місяць тому +4

    100% tower deviation

  • @CMDRFandragon
    @CMDRFandragon Місяць тому

    Pilot version of: Tower, I have a number for you to call!

  • @AceofWaters819
    @AceofWaters819 Місяць тому

    hes expecting you to keep it rolling a bit faster

  • @fourmobro6214
    @fourmobro6214 Місяць тому

    Was on Alaska #738 on 4/7 trying to land at LAS when we had to go around right before touching the ground due to a plane on the runway. Anybody got ATC on that?

  • @svscared
    @svscared Місяць тому

    Sounds to me like the tower initially messed up but then caught their mistake by telling Frontier to hold instead? Unless the controller gave two conflicting instructions without realizing it?

  • @reb1175
    @reb1175 Місяць тому

    Well done to to the pilot, I was waiting for him to to tell the tower I have a phone number for you when your ready for possible tower deviation

  • @rc300xs
    @rc300xs Місяць тому

    Seems like twr could see they weren’t close to crossing so cleared the takeoff then said to hold short. Definitely not proper process for sure but it does seem like the twr was watching. They should have first said to hold short, waited for read back, then gave the takeoff clearance.

  • @ON-O
    @ON-O Місяць тому

    Frontier should’ve given ATC a number to call, possible tower deviation

  • @Chezburger8
    @Chezburger8 Місяць тому

    I was on the Frontier flight LMAO. I was wondering why we slammed on the brakes

  • @leligeour
    @leligeour Місяць тому

    "Tower, I have a phone number for you when you are ready"

  • @TheSoaringChannel
    @TheSoaringChannel Місяць тому

    Oh that was an insidious one! Yikes!!!!

  • @Anotherfunnyword
    @Anotherfunnyword Місяць тому +1

    "Hey ground, can you pass on a number over to tower? Thanks, 2517"

  • @ctadam12
    @ctadam12 Місяць тому +1

    Do these get sent to the FAA??

  • @AS-oz6ep
    @AS-oz6ep Місяць тому

    Let me know when you can copy a phone number. Possible ATC deviation.
    What’s good for the goose is good for the gander?

  • @simaonsunda4547
    @simaonsunda4547 Місяць тому +1

    Delta 67 had to go to Paris not alnta takeoff from Rome now just landed in paris

  • @BSTREEEEEET
    @BSTREEEEEET Місяць тому +4

    He should have said, "Possible ATC deviation, I got a number for you when you're ready.".

  • @OppositeOpinion
    @OppositeOpinion Місяць тому

    1) why spirit started takeoff roll? He didn't hear about rwy crossing?
    2) what about stop bars again?

  • @weaselworm8681
    @weaselworm8681 Місяць тому

    I assume this the equivalent of a ATC possible deviation? When this happens do they get a warning or are they taken off the system for a while?

  • @Art-Dean
    @Art-Dean Місяць тому +17

    When ATC says proceed without delay, they mean it.😊

    • @VASAviation
      @VASAviation  Місяць тому +12

      So if the airplane delays for whatever reason, rethink your sequence or change instructions. But don't have 2 airplanes with clearance onto the runway

    • @ea7654
      @ea7654 Місяць тому

      Well said

    • @A.J.1656
      @A.J.1656 Місяць тому +1

      And it means don't delay, it doesn't mean taxi fast.

  • @Robbie06261995
    @Robbie06261995 Місяць тому +1

    Possible controller deviation.

  • @Charon58
    @Charon58 Місяць тому +1

    Well he did stop when he heard the conflict developing and that was good. But he didn’t “keep it rolling” which might have avoided the whole thing

    • @VASAviation
      @VASAviation  Місяць тому +3

      Keep it rolling doesn't mean anything to us pilots.

  • @Darkalchohol
    @Darkalchohol Місяць тому

    They almost merged 😂

  • @randomgeocacher
    @randomgeocacher Місяць тому

    Eh. I didn’t know of this one. So at least 2 eerily similar close calls in two weeks. Ensuring ATC is rested is a good start but maybe there needs to be a system for Ground/Tower sync. Both incidents seem so similar: Ground has claimed runway with clearances, Tower appear completely unaware of Ground’s claim. This could be managed by bricks on a model if they sit physically next to each other; or some IT support system… these functions being unaware of each other’s clearances is insanely dangerous.

  • @d.nutter4950
    @d.nutter4950 Місяць тому

    That's why you never leave tower until you are clear of ALL runways..

  • @quintuscrinis8032
    @quintuscrinis8032 Місяць тому +1

    I have seen a genuinely terrifying number of new videos from this channel in the last week or so.
    What is going on in avaition at the moment or is it just the algorithm?

    • @frenchchicken2799
      @frenchchicken2799 Місяць тому +1

      Mainly algorithm stuff like this happens surprisingly often, well maybe not stuff like whats in the video but problems on aircrafts.

  • @BrandonNater
    @BrandonNater Місяць тому

    Frontier, only fly me with this captain, please and thank you.

  • @silverwings1843
    @silverwings1843 Місяць тому +1

    This happens more often then you think. The only SAVE is by very observant Pilots. At the end of all my first leg of a trip Briefings
    I add: " As far as ATC....They Work For Us at All Times...That Goes Double in South America!!!!" Many times I have had ATC try to
    dig my grave!!!! And many times I Flatly REFUSED DIRECTION and Saved Myself!! If I am OK....Then all The PAX are OK !!! There
    is a Magic Word in dealing with ATC. And that Magic Word is: "NO!!!!!" Followed by requesting a Time Check and Tel Number!!!!

    • @VASAviation
      @VASAviation  Місяць тому

      I will post more of these if I find out more. This one was reported by a witness.

  • @renzanfortineri196
    @renzanfortineri196 Місяць тому

    So 2517 was cleared to cross runway, and then he was instructed by tower to change channel to ground
    after that, tower cleared 396, cleared for take off
    after that, tower told 2517 to hold short of runway
    ----
    2517 "supposedly" should already not in that channel, they should already contacted ground
    so in bad scenario, 2517 could not hear the hold short command from tower, and possible plane crash
    That was really close call.... He also waited until all is clear and then report

  • @calirambo7896
    @calirambo7896 Місяць тому

    Frontier vs Spirit: guaranteed brawl to ensue

  • @hotlavatube
    @hotlavatube Місяць тому

    "Tower, I've got a number for you to call. Possible ATC deviation. Do you have a pen ready?"

  • @kjemad
    @kjemad Місяць тому +1

    frontier was taking his sweet a** time though. I can see why the tower assumed he was instructed to hold short....

    • @SusanWSucks
      @SusanWSucks Місяць тому

      I had to make sure I wasn't the only one amidst the collective.
      I didn't realize Frontier was told to hold, I was sure tower told him to keep it rolling.
      Maybe tower should have told Frontier to expedite crossing but still seemed like Frontier was preoccupied.

    • @kjemad
      @kjemad Місяць тому

      @@SusanWSucks tower initially told frontier to keep it rolling cleared to cross. but he seems to stop for some reason....? and at that point I think the controller thought he instructed frontier to hold short....

  • @brandondevahl552
    @brandondevahl552 Місяць тому

    Possible controller deviation , i have a number for you to copy when ready

  • @wturn5354
    @wturn5354 Місяць тому +1

    Unfortunately the controller clearly made a serious error. He cleared an aircraft for takeoff as another aircraft was also cleared to cross the same runway. He only told the crossing aircraft to hold short AFTER issuing takeoff clearance to the other. Not good.

  • @perkelix
    @perkelix Місяць тому +1

    I'm really counting the days until a pilot blurts out "possible tower deviation" and demands the tape be submitted for investigation.

  • @RyanJ_
    @RyanJ_ Місяць тому +13

    It feels like we're counting down the days until a major accident in the US, caused by poor ATC

    • @jamescollier3
      @jamescollier3 Місяць тому +1

      that won't be the root cause

    • @bosshog8844
      @bosshog8844 Місяць тому +1

      When white men are allowed to be hired again, and all the other riff raff is purged, then safety incidents will go down in frequency.

    • @iain8837
      @iain8837 Місяць тому

      @@jamescollier3that’s the attitude that will cause an accident.

    • @andrewlorenzo6611
      @andrewlorenzo6611 Місяць тому

      @@iain8837 still be waiting

  • @flightTime123
    @flightTime123 Місяць тому +3

    This is how a pilot should be. Not emotional, just prepared and professional. Something that’s fading quickly away

    • @grizzomble
      @grizzomble Місяць тому

      Today's pilots have a better safety record than at any point in history.

  • @thibault5484
    @thibault5484 Місяць тому +7

    Pilots should also be able to say "we got a number for you to call." :D

    • @JelMain
      @JelMain Місяць тому

      "Can I have a number to call?" "Yup, 911"

  • @WNCHIGH
    @WNCHIGH Місяць тому +1

    Sterile cockpit … a great concept of safety, that had to have contributed to this + outcome

  • @georgewchilds
    @georgewchilds Місяць тому

    And aviation is a team sport.

  • @marcellkovacs5452
    @marcellkovacs5452 Місяць тому +1

    It feels like the ATC thought Frontier was further out and he could quickly squeeze in Spirit ("no delay"), then told Frontier to hold short. He sounded pretty calm in the "hold short" call, so he probably didn't even understand that he made a mistake.

    • @VASAviation
      @VASAviation  Місяць тому +6

      The order of instructions is wrong anyways. You first tell someone to hold, then you clear the other one to take off

    • @marcellkovacs5452
      @marcellkovacs5452 Місяць тому

      @@VASAviation Yep, no doubt about that. I was more trying to understand his thinking rather than criticising it because I think we can agree that the result was pretty bad.

    • @JohnnieV
      @JohnnieV Місяць тому

      Wrong either way. You can’t clear someone to cross 26 RIGHT & give another 26 R takeoff clearance. lol.

    • @cgtbrad
      @cgtbrad Місяць тому

      @@JohnnieV I mean, it's not much different than busy airports issuing 'cleared to land' while another airplane is still on the runway. Happens all the time! (Just playing the devils advocate).

    • @JohnnieV
      @JohnnieV Місяць тому

      @@cgtbrad I never thought about that.

  • @TheGospelQuartetParadise
    @TheGospelQuartetParadise Місяць тому

    I'm sure the CVR would be quite helpful in validating the pilot's claim. Kudos to the pilot of Frontier 2517 for being alert on the ground. At these airports out West nothing is routine.

  • @josephroberts6865
    @josephroberts6865 Місяць тому +1

    Seems like entirely too many of these situations lately. Are we critically short ATC personnel and have lowered standards to get people in the control tower?

  • @MADHIKER777
    @MADHIKER777 Місяць тому

    Frontier pilot earned his pay. He should be given the controller's pay for that day too!

  • @Rhinozherous
    @Rhinozherous Місяць тому +1

    Awesome pilot work, poor ATC work here.