I know a lot of people want information in relation to the situation, but listen up mate, the crew cut you a lot of slack in a tense situation (47 years ATC)
Does the ATC'rs understand that there are hundreds of people in those aircraft? I see better communication systems at a McDonalds drive through. I say what food I want, ONCE, the whole restaurant knows, it works together, rings up a bill, and 60 seconds later, someone else is giving me my food wrapped neatly in a bag with cutlery. And there is 6 cars behind me, and Im probably their 400th customer that day.
Absolutely massive props to this pilot communicating. Working a high stress situation that is being piled onto by keeping track of requests that ATC has somehow forgotten on top of repeatedly answering questions that have already been answered multiple times.
Deep breath. So I am falling for the bait. A quick scan of the comments indicates ATC is a villian in this fairly routine "emergency." 1) the feed you are hearing is not what ATC and pilots hear 2) you have subtitles, ask any pilot/controller what percentage of what they hear and clearly understand. Hint: It is not 100%. 3) the pilot is busy, YES, but original controller who seems to be takkng a shelling is also busy coordinating with NY Tracon (assuming controller is ZBW), his supervisor, controllers in adjacent sectors/facilities by "in the ear" landlines, etc, etc, etc. All literally simultaneously (yes controllers monitor different frequencies especially at this time in the evening) He is chill and composed. He already knows something is up prior to the audio because the aircraft has asked for a highly unusual return to Newark, which at a minimum means several hours of paperwork and a "hot" overweight landing 4)an unruly passenger is a *common* issue on international flights where a few hundred passengers have been chilling for hours with bar access. It's almost routine. 5)Yeah, PAN-PAN-Pan is sort of weird (don't hear it much in US, maybe stressed more ICAO?) but the handful of controllers do their jobs as they do, and it's probably not even dinner talk when they go home to their husbands/wives/whoever, 6) y'all are hearing a linear edited version WITH SUBTITLES. I do go on. I thought pilots/controllers did excellent job (which is a job requirement) in a somewhat routine incident. BTW, I know whereof I speak. I've danced this dance before, and got sucked in. Gotta stop reading social medial comments!
@@Dvy383 that was way more than a deep breath, but I totally agree. People in the comments think the pilots and ATC can read subtitles as we can do in the video when communicating. Best way to show not even this channel got it right? When ATC asks for 3000 or above but the channel puts 2000' or above in the subtitles (6:12).
@@Dvy383 Thank you for the perspective which is clearly informed from much greater inside understanding than the vast majority of us, myself included. The PAN-PAN issue is interesting. My understanding is that "declaring an emergency" has always been the standard phraseology in the USA while elsewhere in the world (and certainly Europe - this is a Swiss flight) PAN-PAN and MAYDAY are standard phraseology. The interesting bit is that, I believe, the USA was supposed to be switching over to the international standard (PAN-PAN and MAYDAY) but old habits die hard and nobody has bothered, basically. I do suggest that differences in accent (speaking as a European, my guess is that the pilot's accent was perhaps easier for me to understand), noisy comms, the workload that both sides were dealing with, and differences in standard terminology (e.g. see above) were actually all contributing factors to the (very minor) confusion that arose here.
@@Dvy383 Looks like you got sucked in again. 6 lengthy bullet points of frustration over a minor critique of ATC seems excessive. The main point was commending the pilot for keeping their cool while answering the same question multiple times while in the midst of a high stress situation.
@@Dvy383while I pretty much agree with a lot of what you had to say. I think the loose informal language when dealing with international flights is a problem in the US. I’m listening with no subtitles and distracted, and the pilot was easier to follow than some of the controllers. Yes I know that what we hear in the recordings isn’t what they hear. In fact in my experience it’s usually clearer for the controllers and pilots. Also if you have to ask specific questions and then do nothing with that information, then that’s a failure of the system that should be addressed. One day the Swiss cheese (pun intended) will line up and either the distraction from being asked the same questions or the answers not being passed on may cost a life. There seem to be cultural issues as to why the US resists moving to ICAO standards that I learned when I first started flying in the 80s, but it should be about safety and efficiency above all else. I feel like training, systems and standards should always be something we look at to improve. Just my 2c.
Swiss Air wins the Award for the most friendly pilot communicating wuth ATC. I am stressed just listening to the ATC in each sector asking the same requests.
I could understand them getting an update on the situation, but it seems that nothing got forwarded. The plane is on the ground and he’s asking where the freaking fire engines are!
Someone posted that this is what happened: "I was on the flight and sitting in row 1. I heard screaming which was followed by the unruly passenger running towards the cockpit with several flight attendants on his heels. They wrestled with him in the forward galley…they had the wherewithal to pull the blinds so we couldn’t really see. He was physically abusing and fighting them and yelling about “being legendary”. Scary stuff! They contained him with what sounded like zip ties to hold him down until we were back at the gate. The flight attendants were naturally shaken but they were real heros in this terrible situation press"
Dude your job as an ATC is to LISTEN!!! The Swiss pilots are way too patient. That ATC is infuriating. It is not like they have nothing else to do in the cockpit! And how much fuel do you have on board in minutes, cups, décalitres, minutes, gallons US, gallons UK, 20 feet diameter outdoor pool, water bomber trips, orange space shuttle reservoirs and mouthfuls?
Man! You can tell the pilot is flummoxed in the situation but he's stayin' right on top of the deaf ATC guy and all future comms and verifying in his brain that nothing gets left out, he's a cool cucumber!
Hi guys, I’m the ATC guy at the tower. I wanted to express how honored I am to be the first deaf ATC working at a tower in history. Thank you whoever hired me for this amazing opportunity, and I’ll try my best!
It's easy to understand him sitting in your QUIET house. You add in all the chatter from the 500 other aircraft on freq., the background noise and a thick foreign accent and it gets hard sometimes.
8 місяців тому
@@dennythomas8887 Are you an ATCO or similar? If so, where in the world?
@@dennythomas8887The 500 other aircraft are definitely not talking at the same time, that’s not how it works 😂😂😂😂 Also, the accent wasn’t bad at all, especially when you compare it to accents of people from other nationalities
"do you require any further assistance?" I was so worried they had forgotten to rally the fire trucks and cops... Sounds like the pilot had the same worry. Come on, guys.
agree, tower was unprofessional. clearly there was important information for tower to communicate -vs- "do you require any further assistance". unbelievable.
I'm very disappointed the UA-cam Flight Sim Academy never taught you Space Cadets about how it is entirely physically possible that a radio transmission that one party hears perfect, another party (especially when that other party is somewhere else) has trouble hearing that same transmission because of noise on the channel. ATC youtube comments have to be the dumbest, most european/pedantic/know it all that I have ever seen on the internet.
@gotacallfromvishal so what brand of headset do you use? Sometimes factors like distance, altitude, weather and terrain can lead to garbled and staticky comms. But if you're regularly having trouble hearing transmissions that are otherwise quite decipherable on low quality live ATC feeds, I'd suggest it's time for an upgrade.
@@gotacallfromvishal usually the tower would say something to the effect of "exit runway when able and the fire trucks will meet you", instead of "need anything else?"...
@@jordansean18 You're right USA ATC really needs to hold the hands of the average under trained EU pilot. There is absolutely no room for common sense we need to have the tower drop everything cancel the other dozen approaches they have and hold their hand and tell them to taxi up to the fire trucks off the runway on the way to their gate so other planes in the most congested airport in the world can also land
@@munchmaIt’s a priority aircraft. Almost all focus is on it. And air traffic controllers’ primary job is to communicate. This scenario was handled poorly concerning communications, period. Another example besides the constant request of the pilot to repeat himself, is the annoying request for the exact same information between hand-offs of ATC’s. There was WAY more radio workload for the pilots than necessary.
@@munchmaunacceptable to ask four times from the same controller for fuel quantities. Especially for priority aircraft. It doesn’t matter what’s going on on the other side of the microphone on the controller’s side
@@munchma - Yet here we are in the 21st century where we have the technology available to provide substantially better communications, yet we still have to contend with bugs bunny doing daffy duck impressions underwater while the waves crash overhead?
@@rileysteveYou've ingested too many memes. ATC at JFK is the hardest job in the world to obtain, and nobody who isn't proven in experience gets in there. They did just fine; you don't know what the feed sounded like in their headphones in the tower judging off a third-party radio capture.
8 місяців тому+3
@@lkaven Tower at that altitude? That should be the approach controller's job. If the audio isn't at least as clear as what we're hearing, it needs to be rectified.
@Oh I agree that the audio needs to be rectified; and I'm certain it was attended to. I was here to counter the ridiculous "DEI" dude. EVERY controller who sits in that seat is proven in extreme circumstances.
Just because the connection on the person recording this is super good doesn't mean the connection between ATC and the pilot is good. Sometimes there's interference on the channel.
@@gotacallfromvishal completely agree however there shouldn’t have been confirmation for a PAN-PAN unless policy. Even with a weak receiver, id bet I could’ve heard that clear, concise and slow PAN-PAN at ATC’s end. Hard to mistake that for anything else!
@@AushumanoidEspecially for a pan-pan, what’s the harm in confirming? Id rather have someone confirm what they just heard and then proceed to take appropriate action than have someone assume they heard something and take immediate action without confirming.
OMG ATC is a total looney bin. Pilot mentioned it in Kg and then converted for tons as well. And the lady asking do you need further assistance when they requested what they need exactly before landing. Her response should be fire brigade is standing by for your go ahead and police is at the gate for you. Pilot had super calm nerves. Captain cool :)
ATC briefly tripped over the "brigade" englishism, which is not used in US, but recovered quickly. In ATC/pilot phraseology, you use the same hundred or so words (excluding fixes, locations, etc) 99% of the time. Obviously, Swiss air did not know local fixes/waypoints, etc, so ATC spelled them out phonetically.
this return to base made the news in Switzerland. Imagine the cost of this. The unruly passenger should have to pay for everything, including passenger overnight costs.
The controller appears never to have heard of metric units. What is this "kilos" you speak of? I expect number of pounds. Also, the pilots are totally unfamiliar with all the waypoints -- at one point they say, "just give us vectors" -- perhaps because they don't usually land at this airport?
Holy shit the controllers are being quite incapable. The pilots have an accent but are perfectly understandable. Having them repeat everything because the controller didn’t understood is ridiculous, and well as not understanding them saying ‘PAN-PAN’, literally one of the most easily recognisable phrases in aviation. Also not notifying the next controller. Being asked 4 times if you need to dump fuel is absolutely unnecessary. The pilots are busy with a passenger trying to get into the cockpit & being an acute danger to everyone’s safety. Controllers being frustratingly counterproductive isn’t something they need.
LMAO no. The pilot gave non-standard measurements and difficult to understand! Why would anyone give fuel in kilos rather than hours?? Or for that matter, break up souls on board between pax and crew???? Swiss really needs to train their pilots better.
@@BadJellyman100because the WHOLE world (except us of course) use the metric system🤦♂️… what good is fuel in hours gone do in this case?? Ok he could have given souls an board as a total I give you that. But seriously, ATC performance in this case is poor. Their job is to provide vectors and assistance to aircraft and not ask the same questions over and over again. As a pilot I am constantly baffled why us controllers think answering their (repeated) questions somehow helps save lives. Their life is not in danger…Worst thing that will happen to the controllers is falling off their chair…
My dude in ATC. It’s Swiss air. You are not gonna get that fuel in pounds, they probably don’t even have a gauge for that. Maybe he couldn’t hear the other stuff well, but if the plane is not American they will be using the metric system. Every time, every time, every time.
@@placiaffect8679 Ha! Yeah, I had a math professor that would say that when teaching and making a point about an equation, and I always had to pay really close attention in math so it’s kinda stuck with me.
The funny (and annoying thing) about a lot of US controllers is that they don't understand English unless it's in a US accent. Anyone around the world who speaks English understood those Swiss pilots easily. And the radio quality is better than what is captured on these videos.
Most Americans in these comments understood the pilots. I certainly did. Newark is an international airport and they hear all kinds of accents. I don't think it was the accent. The ATC just wasn't listening.
@@cliveramsbotty6077 I would guess that he's a native speaker of German, one of the main languages of Switzerland, but it took me some time to decide on German or French. His English is outstanding for a non-native speaker.
The irony is ... your actually the stupid one... bet neither of you guys are controllers nor know anything about being a controller in the second busiest Aircraft sector there is in the world. They have to ask these information for safety reasons and for crews on the ground.. This was perfect by both crews
They do. To people on the ground. The pilot was speaking with three different towers who (generally)have no communication with each other. You will notice at the end, that the woman said that the fire brigade and police were already waiting for him when he landed.
@@patricklora4434yeah, but if it’s like the CDL or pre-employment physical, that test is usually someone rubbing their fingers next to your ear and asking if you hear it. I’m not sure ATC has bad hearing, though. I think he was struggling with the Swiss accent. At an airport like Newark, it might not be bad to play recordings of various accents for ATCs so they can get used to them.
I’m an AME (Aviation Medical Examiner). ATC physicals do include a formal audiogram assessment. Pilots only have to demonstrate normal “conversational hearing”.
Even the news article on the incident got the number of passengers wrong. What on earth? "Okay, so you have 801 kilos of passengers on board and seven cabbages of fuel?" -- Air Traffic Circus.
What an absolute clusterf-ck with ATC in relaying critical information down the line. “Do you need further assistance at this time?” “Yeah, we need that fire brigade to look at our brakes so that the aircraft doesn’t burn down on the way to the gate. Oh, yeah and don’t forget the police to take the lunatic into custody.”
Some people say that foreigners have bad pronunciation, but what if US ATC experienced ATC work abroad? They would understand how US ATC does not follow the internationally defined grammar and terminology that ATC should use, and how they use terms and units that are only used in the US. The pilot's English and pronunciation in this video are not bad, and there are no mistakes in the grammar, terms, and units used, and the explanation of what is required is easy to understand. People who make fun of the English ability of people from overseas and use that as an excuse should try going to a country where English is not spoken and studying the local language.
It was easy to mishear the pilot's first couple attempts to state fuel in particular, because he tripped a little bit over seemingly deciding what units he wanted to use, and his accent, but I'd think someone working Newark would have good familiarity with accents. In any event, they did work it out, but perhaps some accent familiarization training would be helpful to speed things along in tense or emergency situations.
@@don_5283 the pilot had a French accent, however not really heavy. Controller though seemed to understand pounds only. Well maybe ounces, as he didn't need education for that.
@@josh....... The problem is, if the plane has a direct line of sight to the ATC antenna, then the ATC has a direct line of sight to the plane, and they should hear each other fine. That communication should always be at least as good as the recording, if not better. If you can understand this, then the ATC should be able to hear it just fine, barring tech problems on his side, either hardware or wetware.
Not going to explain it all, but the first ATC did all the work. The other controllers just had a routine aircraft with what they knew was a non-emergency (save for the hot landing)
One of the main differences between US and European ATC is US, in particular New York ATC it seems, asks a question with a statement e.g. “No further assistance required” rather that “ Is any further assistance required”? It is much clearer to ask a direct question rather than rely on the interpretation of a statement, particularly when dialects are involved.
I'm curious: in everyday language, answering negative questions is often ambiguous, e.g. "[do you need] no further assistance?" - "no"/"yes" (both meaning "we do not", possibly). I imagine this doesn't get better with "affirmative"/"negative", does it? Avoiding negated questions obviously solves this. (For language nerds: In addition to yes/no (ja/nein), German has a third word for exactly this purpose, "doch", meaning "actually yes", which rejects a statement containing a negative.)
Everyone commenting on the first controller being deaf but I'm much more concerned with whether his difficulty tracking the convo is actually a sign of that ATC being understaffed for the workload they're facing (having too many radios transmissions to monitor).
I think one is a consequence of the other: stating one is as correct as the other, because they're linked. If understaffed => overworked => more stressed => less good at communicating
This video (recording) is a fine example of the problem that exists at the FAA and at contracted controller companies getting competent ATC's on the job. We really have an acute problem in this area and many more withing the air transportation industry.
After the PANPAN PANPAN PANPAN and asking a confirm I couldn't take this ATC anymore. Watching any further would just have me tossed in the rage cage. WTF
"How much fuel do you have?" "48,400kg" "how much fuel do you have?" "48,300kg or 48.3 tons" "248lbs?" "Yes we have approximately one minute of fuel remaining!"
Controller: "You want the fire what???...Brigade??...huh?? " Also Controller with headset off : "Hey Joe get a load of how these Swiss guys speak!! It's like a foreign language or something."
Another brilliant case if US ATC going „oh, so someone is in danger? Stop what your doing and answer all my very important questions right now! Multiple times please, i was not paying attention. Can you give me that in football fields or Olympic pools? And just for fun, tell the next four controllers the exact same thing again, because why not. It’s not like you got other stuff to do….“ Don’t get me wrong ATC mostly does a great job (and NY is particularly stressful), but PLEASE when it comes to emergencies: LISTEN UP, PAY ATTENTION, DO NOT ASK NON CRITICAL QUESTIONS AND FOR GOD SAKE PASS ALONG THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE!
Rumour has it that ATC still has no clue about how much fuel were remaining on that jet. Pilot should've just responded with: Asked and answered, and then proceeded to enjoy a choccolate before landing, because that what swiss pilots do in an emergency.
Like others posting comments, I was dismayed at the lack of real listening by all the ATC folks. It's like they don't talk to one another or pass the info on. The pilot must think Americans are deaf, incompetent, or at least not focused on their jobs.
I understand that this is not an everyday procedure for ATC or the pilots involved but the fact that ATC even got the call sign wrong (it’s SWISS not Swissair, they went bankrupt in 2002) makes it even worse.
Metric vs imperial strikes again. This also sounds like an opportune situation for one of those discrete frequencies the Dutch ATCs pull out at the whiff of an emergency.
New York Area controllers should be better than this. They handle so much international traffic that they ought to be better with foreign accents and language barriers.
I'm not sure whether it was only about the accent. ATC wasn't able to recognize the words "kilograms" and "tons" even though pilot repeated those. "248 pounds", to me that sounded like the controller hasn't got a clue about airliners, either. I'm sure he'd be aware though that a 33oz meal is too little for him.
Its seemed like such efffffing hard work to get ATC and tower to get him down and all sorted with backup it makes me wonder how many pilots/crew don't bother with PAN PANs if its so hard to get appropriate back up form ATC and Tower.
Pilot did great, not so much for ATC. They did their job but engaged a busy pilot too much and did not communicate clearly what was going on, requiring the pilot to have to make repeated requests to confirm. Also, when dealing with pilots where English is not their primary language, spell out points, especially when they are in stressful situations.
I often get a sense that whenever something outside the ordinary happens US ATC just start going zombie mode on some checklist shaking in their boots about pleasing head office and just completely forget how to actually accommodate the emergency and help the pilots
UA-cam, really? You delete a comment about that day? I will try again. On that day in September on the 11th in 2001, air traffic controllers all across America managed to reroute and ground literally hundreds of flights. Not a single one was lost, except the ones that were taken by the ones who say Hi, Jack, er... I would say that they did a phenomenal job for an unprecedented event with no warning. May those who lost their lives RIP.
He's free roaming the cabin and can't be restrained? "This is your Captain speaking. Please remain seated with your belts on and be prepared to use your oxigen masks, we're gonna ventilate some pest..." Then open a door. Easy way to deal with these kind of idiots. (Just in case anyone has a broken irony detector or something, it's a joke... but man, wouldn't it be nice to do it!) Also, give all those ATC new ears, please!!!
omg the communication between the two of them was ridiculous! I don't know about those guys in the tower, but the poor pilot had to repeat and correct them sooo many times. I wouldn't have been so calm with them.
NO! The pilot gave the worst possible answers dude who the hell uses Kilos??? Or souls on board being broken up between passengers and crew? Swiss needs to train their pilots better in communications. END OF.
@@BadJellyman100EVERYONE EXCEPT THE US FUCKING DOES, BECAUSE IT IS THE SUPERIOR MEASUREMENT. Pilot training in Switzerland is excellent and pilots in Europe generally have to go through considerably more examinations in order to obtain the same privileges FAA pilots have. Educate yourself next time.
@@donramown2495 educate YOUR self genius. Fuel is measured in hours. As in how many hours can you stay in the air. No matter the unit weight doesn't mean jack to someone who doesn't know the burn rate of that craft. As for "excellent" training why would they communicate in such confusing manner? Tell me you've never worked in aviation without saying you've never worked in aviation
@@BadJellyman100 Alright in easy words for you :) The unit of measurement for fuel remaining doesn't matter. This report is primarily for the fire department and to have it recorded on the tapes. It is not to determine how much longer the aircraft will be able to stay airborne, therefore time it DOES NOT have to be reported in time. Every ATC is familiar with kgs or at least should be. The only person involved messing up communication is the first ATC. While talking to a pilot who was clearly in a urgency/distress situation he managed to miss the information he asked for himself multiple times. They were reported clearly understandable despite the accent. The ATC even managed to miss the PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN which is honestly astounding. But yeah the swiss guys are the ones in need for communication training, for sureeee! Oh and I hate to mention stuff like that but I am a commercial pilot under FAA & EASA as well as a CFII, since you had to bring up the qualifications dick comparison ;)
For real the atc is completely incompetent. They should really send their atc in training to Europe for some proper training on how to handle these situations instead of constantly bothering pilots with idiotic questions…
I looked this up and was appalled to find out that I can fly from New Jersey to Zürich, Switzerland, for 700 bucks, but it costs 600 bucks just to get from Tucson, Arizona, to DFW. What gives?
Lack of competition amongst US carriers and they all adjust prices up together. There’s no incentive to to undercut the competition, what little they have. Europeans travel around Europe much more than Americans do around the US because of the plentiful affordable flights not to mention airlines are also competing with convenient rail service.
@@cruisinguy6024 sounds about right. $0.70 per mile (AZ to TX) doesn't sound unreasonable, but knowing I could fly for $0.10 per mile, if I go overseas, it is.
Can’t understand why giving fuel in different measurements is such an issue? That information is for the Fire Services right? In which case, just pass it on and let them do the conversion while they’re staging 🤷♂️ why should it be on the pilots to convert it, they’ve got enough to deal with. Comes across as almost vindictive - you’re in our airspace, you’ll use our measurement system sort of thing. Totally agree with the other comments, first controller was atrocious. Also the Tower controller with “no further assistance required”?! That must have spooked the Pilot, thinking nothing had been passed on (which wouldn’t have been all that surprising given the listening skills of the first Controller we hear) and that no-one was waiting. Maybe try saying “Fire Service waiting to meet you and Police are at the Gate, any other services required?”
I feel like if they just left and came back there’s not a real need to ask for it in time. Get the weight, and if it sounds seriously low, get it in time then. Let them report the weight however it shows up for them.
The first incompetent controller needs to lose his job. I understood every single word the pilot said and he made the poor guy repeat nearly every transmission. Ridiculous.
I don't know whether it's the radio or the accent but I feel the communication should be a LOT smoother in such a critical field. In my country they only fix things when people die, I thought aviation is better.
There are some crazy people in this world!!! Great job on the pilot's remaining calm even when it seemed ATC was having trouble understanding the gravity of the situation...usually is the opposite!
I seriously take breaks from these clips because ATC is so stressful to listen to. The Swiss pilot is speaking PERFECT English and the ATC has $800 headphones on.
![[REAL ATC] An UNRULY AIR MARSHAL forces emergency landing!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/esZVVXXZaLc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[REAL ATC] An UNRULY AIR MARSHAL forces emergency landing!](/img/tr.png)
The level of the injury is unknown, but we wish a nice recovery to that crew member that was injured during the incident.
One flight attendant in first class got beaten up by the passenger and has been taken to a local hospital.
I know a lot of people want information in relation to the situation, but listen up mate, the crew cut you a lot of slack in a tense situation (47 years ATC)
@@philstanton231 The ATC was deplorable.
Does the ATC'rs understand that there are hundreds of people in those aircraft? I see better communication systems at a McDonalds drive through. I say what food I want, ONCE, the whole restaurant knows, it works together, rings up a bill, and 60 seconds later, someone else is giving me my food wrapped neatly in a bag with cutlery. And there is 6 cars behind me, and Im probably their 400th customer that day.
Absolutely massive props to this pilot communicating. Working a high stress situation that is being piled onto by keeping track of requests that ATC has somehow forgotten on top of repeatedly answering questions that have already been answered multiple times.
Deep breath. So I am falling for the bait. A quick scan of the comments indicates ATC is a villian in this fairly routine "emergency." 1) the feed you are hearing is not what ATC and pilots hear 2) you have subtitles, ask any pilot/controller what percentage of what they hear and clearly understand. Hint: It is not 100%. 3) the pilot is busy, YES, but original controller who seems to be takkng a shelling is also busy coordinating with NY Tracon (assuming controller is ZBW), his supervisor, controllers in adjacent sectors/facilities by "in the ear" landlines, etc, etc, etc. All literally simultaneously (yes controllers monitor different frequencies especially at this time in the evening) He is chill and composed. He already knows something is up prior to the audio because the aircraft has asked for a highly unusual return to Newark, which at a minimum means several hours of paperwork and a "hot" overweight landing 4)an unruly passenger is a *common* issue on international flights where a few hundred passengers have been chilling for hours with bar access. It's almost routine. 5)Yeah, PAN-PAN-Pan is sort of weird (don't hear it much in US, maybe stressed more ICAO?) but the handful of controllers do their jobs as they do, and it's probably not even dinner talk when they go home to their husbands/wives/whoever, 6) y'all are hearing a linear edited version WITH SUBTITLES. I do go on. I thought pilots/controllers did excellent job (which is a job requirement) in a somewhat routine incident. BTW, I know whereof I speak. I've danced this dance before, and got sucked in. Gotta stop reading social medial comments!
@@Dvy383 that was way more than a deep breath, but I totally agree.
People in the comments think the pilots and ATC can read subtitles as we can do in the video when communicating. Best way to show not even this channel got it right? When ATC asks for 3000 or above but the channel puts 2000' or above in the subtitles (6:12).
@@Dvy383 Thank you for the perspective which is clearly informed from much greater inside understanding than the vast majority of us, myself included.
The PAN-PAN issue is interesting. My understanding is that "declaring an emergency" has always been the standard phraseology in the USA while elsewhere in the world (and certainly Europe - this is a Swiss flight) PAN-PAN and MAYDAY are standard phraseology. The interesting bit is that, I believe, the USA was supposed to be switching over to the international standard (PAN-PAN and MAYDAY) but old habits die hard and nobody has bothered, basically.
I do suggest that differences in accent (speaking as a European, my guess is that the pilot's accent was perhaps easier for me to understand), noisy comms, the workload that both sides were dealing with, and differences in standard terminology (e.g. see above) were actually all contributing factors to the (very minor) confusion that arose here.
@@Dvy383 Looks like you got sucked in again. 6 lengthy bullet points of frustration over a minor critique of ATC seems excessive. The main point was commending the pilot for keeping their cool while answering the same question multiple times while in the midst of a high stress situation.
@@Dvy383while I pretty much agree with a lot of what you had to say. I think the loose informal language when dealing with international flights is a problem in the US. I’m listening with no subtitles and distracted, and the pilot was easier to follow than some of the controllers. Yes I know that what we hear in the recordings isn’t what they hear. In fact in my experience it’s usually clearer for the controllers and pilots.
Also if you have to ask specific questions and then do nothing with that information, then that’s a failure of the system that should be addressed. One day the Swiss cheese (pun intended) will line up and either the distraction from being asked the same questions or the answers not being passed on may cost a life.
There seem to be cultural issues as to why the US resists moving to ICAO standards that I learned when I first started flying in the 80s, but it should be about safety and efficiency above all else. I feel like training, systems and standards should always be something we look at to improve.
Just my 2c.
Swiss Air wins the Award for the most friendly pilot communicating wuth ATC.
I am stressed just listening to the ATC in each sector asking the same requests.
And calling them Swissair despite its only Swiss for years now
@@lessi_lexthey call themselves Swiss air for me sometimes.
The Swiss are experts in neutrality after all.
I could understand them getting an update on the situation, but it seems that nothing got forwarded. The plane is on the ground and he’s asking where the freaking fire engines are!
"we'll pass it on"
Plot twist, the pilots decided the ATC was a bigger risk than the unruly passenger and continued on to Zurich.
😂
Or just EWR in general.
"Uh, we're gonna need a few minutes to dump the body, then we'll get out of your hair."
Maybe the pilot should try to lose his French accent a bit? 😂
@@CryptocurrencyInsider Come on! It wasn' that bad! Either com issues or a controller who's weirdly bad at listening
Someone posted that this is what happened:
"I was on the flight and sitting in row 1. I heard screaming which was followed by the unruly passenger running towards the cockpit with several flight attendants on his heels. They wrestled with him in the forward galley…they had the wherewithal to pull the blinds so we couldn’t really see. He was physically abusing and fighting them and yelling about “being legendary”. Scary stuff! They contained him with what sounded like zip ties to hold him down until we were back at the gate. The flight attendants were naturally shaken but they were real heros in this terrible situation press"
ATC: You saw what running where? The flight attendants did what?
@@rustyshackelford3371 ATC: You saw flight attendants running?
Replies are legendary.
@@OCinneideyour engines aren't running?
Your fridge is running?
Dude your job as an ATC is to LISTEN!!! The Swiss pilots are way too patient. That ATC is infuriating. It is not like they have nothing else to do in the cockpit!
And how much fuel do you have on board in minutes, cups, décalitres, minutes, gallons US, gallons UK, 20 feet diameter outdoor pool, water bomber trips, orange space shuttle reservoirs and mouthfuls?
Do ATC have captions?😂
😂😂
Your comment wins the internet today!
What's that 20ft dia outdoor pool in pinky toes? Asking for a friend.. 😋
what is the number of passengers in football fields?
No. I said non-stick pan. We're making lunch and forgot our non-stick PAN. OF COURSE I'M SAYING PAN PAN PAN!!
The correct call in that case is PAM-PAN, PAM-PAN, PAM-PAN.
😂
Lol, Pam cooking spray ad bros!
@@lawrencewestby9229 PAN-AM, PAN-AM, PAN-AM
You win the internet today 😂
Rumor has it that the controller is still asking for the fuel level!
Are you saying ‘Pan Pan?’.
He's an American controller. Of course he'd have trouble understanding kilograms
"we're declaring PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN" ... "you're saying PAN-PAN?" lol, looks like some comms issue
I think he was saying PAN-PAN
“PANPAN, PANPAN, PANPAN”
“Roger you’re declaring a Captain Hook?”
If the US would get on board with the rest of the world, we wouldn’t have this issue.
What you guys talkin' about, he said Panda Panda Panda Panda, obviously the captions are wrong or something!
Wasn’t he saying SCAM SCAM SCAM ?
Extremely patient and professional pilot.
Man! You can tell the pilot is flummoxed in the situation but he's stayin' right on top of the deaf ATC guy and all future comms and verifying in his brain that nothing gets left out, he's a cool cucumber!
Hi guys, I’m the ATC guy at the tower. I wanted to express how honored I am to be the first deaf ATC working at a tower in history. Thank you whoever hired me for this amazing opportunity, and I’ll try my best!
Too funny! Sad in real life how many times the poor pilot was asked the same things over and over. Ugh!
Total respect to the pilot for not getting frustrated with the ATC poor receiving audio or hearing problems! That would make me rage!
It's easy to understand him sitting in your QUIET house. You add in all the chatter from the 500 other aircraft on freq., the background noise and a thick foreign accent and it gets hard sometimes.
@@dennythomas8887 Are you an ATCO or similar? If so, where in the world?
@@dennythomas8887The 500 other aircraft are definitely not talking at the same time, that’s not how it works 😂😂😂😂 Also, the accent wasn’t bad at all, especially when you compare it to accents of people from other nationalities
Audio quality here is not representative of quality for ATC & plane - this is just what a receiver could pickup.
@@dennythomas8887 What absolute nonsense.
"do you require any further assistance?"
I was so worried they had forgotten to rally the fire trucks and cops... Sounds like the pilot had the same worry. Come on, guys.
agree, tower was unprofessional. clearly there was important information for tower to communicate -vs- "do you require any further assistance". unbelievable.
I'm very disappointed the UA-cam Flight Sim Academy never taught you Space Cadets about how it is entirely physically possible that a radio transmission that one party hears perfect, another party (especially when that other party is somewhere else) has trouble hearing that same transmission because of noise on the channel. ATC youtube comments have to be the dumbest, most european/pedantic/know it all that I have ever seen on the internet.
@gotacallfromvishal so what brand of headset do you use? Sometimes factors like distance, altitude, weather and terrain can lead to garbled and staticky comms. But if you're regularly having trouble hearing transmissions that are otherwise quite decipherable on low quality live ATC feeds, I'd suggest it's time for an upgrade.
@@gotacallfromvishal usually the tower would say something to the effect of "exit runway when able and the fire trucks will meet you", instead of "need anything else?"...
@@jordansean18 You're right USA ATC really needs to hold the hands of the average under trained EU pilot. There is absolutely no room for common sense we need to have the tower drop everything cancel the other dozen approaches they have and hold their hand and tell them to taxi up to the fire trucks off the runway on the way to their gate so other planes in the most congested airport in the world can also land
Kudos to pilots patience, they burnt 1 ton of fuel by the time they could get the fuel remaining number understood by ATC!
More ATC just asking the same damn questions over and over and over.
@@munchmaIt’s a priority aircraft. Almost all focus is on it. And air traffic controllers’ primary job is to communicate. This scenario was handled poorly concerning communications, period. Another example besides the constant request of the pilot to repeat himself, is the annoying request for the exact same information between hand-offs of ATC’s. There was WAY more radio workload for the pilots than necessary.
@@munchma well, we all heard both parties perfectly. From a remote radio. Radios are not so terrible as you may think. Take that from a CFI.
@@munchmaunacceptable to ask four times from the same controller for fuel quantities. Especially for priority aircraft. It doesn’t matter what’s going on on the other side of the microphone on the controller’s side
@@munchma - Yet here we are in the 21st century where we have the technology available to provide substantially better communications, yet we still have to contend with bugs bunny doing daffy duck impressions underwater while the waves crash overhead?
wow it's almost as if they don't have captions inside the ATC tower....
Thank you for this. As always your work is highly appreciated.
Thank you for watching!
Get the controller new headphones or have his hearing checked.
Another DEI hire.
@@rileysteveYou've ingested too many memes. ATC at JFK is the hardest job in the world to obtain, and nobody who isn't proven in experience gets in there. They did just fine; you don't know what the feed sounded like in their headphones in the tower judging off a third-party radio capture.
@@lkaven Tower at that altitude? That should be the approach controller's job. If the audio isn't at least as clear as what we're hearing, it needs to be rectified.
@Oh I agree that the audio needs to be rectified; and I'm certain it was attended to. I was here to counter the ridiculous "DEI" dude. EVERY controller who sits in that seat is proven in extreme circumstances.
@@rileysteveWhy don't you just go ahead and use the N word. We know you want to.
19C: "... we declare PANPAN, PANPAN, PANPAN."
ATC: "You're saying panpan?"
19C: "Affirm Swiss 19C heavy, PANPAN."
19C communications were clear, calm, and not rushed. ATC seemed to have difficulty listening.
"You only said it three times. How many does it take to make an Emergency?".
What's wrong with the ATC?!?!?!?!?! Dear Lord!
America.
Just because the connection on the person recording this is super good doesn't mean the connection between ATC and the pilot is good. Sometimes there's interference on the channel.
@@gotacallfromvishal completely agree however there shouldn’t have been confirmation for a PAN-PAN unless policy. Even with a weak receiver, id bet I could’ve heard that clear, concise and slow PAN-PAN at ATC’s end. Hard to mistake that for anything else!
@@AushumanoidEspecially for a pan-pan, what’s the harm in confirming? Id rather have someone confirm what they just heard and then proceed to take appropriate action than have someone assume they heard something and take immediate action without confirming.
Answer: not paying attention
OMG ATC is a total looney bin. Pilot mentioned it in Kg and then converted for tons as well. And the lady asking do you need further assistance when they requested what they need exactly before landing. Her response should be fire brigade is standing by for your go ahead and police is at the gate for you. Pilot had super calm nerves. Captain cool :)
ATC briefly tripped over the "brigade" englishism, which is not used in US, but recovered quickly. In ATC/pilot phraseology, you use the same hundred or so words (excluding fixes, locations, etc) 99% of the time. Obviously, Swiss air did not know local fixes/waypoints, etc, so ATC spelled them out phonetically.
Metric tones
this return to base made the news in Switzerland. Imagine the cost of this. The unruly passenger should have to pay for everything, including passenger overnight costs.
These people must be banned from every airline! Also, what was the difficulty in ATC hearing the pilot? I was yelling at my phone, 48.2 tonnes 😂
1 ton = 2000 pounds
1 tonne = 1000Kg ~2205 pounds ~ 1 long ton. We need a better word.
A metric ton is a unit of weight that is equal to 1,000 kilograms or 2,204.6 pounds. It is also known as a tonne.
@@ricm96 FYI: A metric ton is a unit of weight that is equal to 1,000 kilograms or 2,204.6 pounds. It is also known as a tonne.
The controller appears never to have heard of metric units. What is this "kilos" you speak of? I expect number of pounds. Also, the pilots are totally unfamiliar with all the waypoints -- at one point they say, "just give us vectors" -- perhaps because they don't usually land at this airport?
Holy shit the controllers are being quite incapable. The pilots have an accent but are perfectly understandable. Having them repeat everything because the controller didn’t understood is ridiculous, and well as not understanding them saying ‘PAN-PAN’, literally one of the most easily recognisable phrases in aviation.
Also not notifying the next controller. Being asked 4 times if you need to dump fuel is absolutely unnecessary.
The pilots are busy with a passenger trying to get into the cockpit & being an acute danger to everyone’s safety. Controllers being frustratingly counterproductive isn’t something they need.
Seemed to be mostly N90 T, the first ATC.
LMAO no. The pilot gave non-standard measurements and difficult to understand! Why would anyone give fuel in kilos rather than hours?? Or for that matter, break up souls on board between pax and crew???? Swiss really needs to train their pilots better.
Give him a number to call!
@@BadJellyman100non standard measurements? 😂
@@BadJellyman100because the WHOLE world (except us of course) use the metric system🤦♂️… what good is fuel in hours gone do in this case?? Ok he could have given souls an board as a total I give you that. But seriously, ATC performance in this case is poor. Their job is to provide vectors and assistance to aircraft and not ask the same questions over and over again. As a pilot I am constantly baffled why us controllers think answering their (repeated) questions somehow helps save lives. Their life is not in danger…Worst thing that will happen to the controllers is falling off their chair…
My dude in ATC. It’s Swiss air. You are not gonna get that fuel in pounds, they probably don’t even have a gauge for that. Maybe he couldn’t hear the other stuff well, but if the plane is not American they will be using the metric system. Every time, every time, every time.
~Can you repeat, did you say...~
Edit:
You’re saying every time?
@@placiaffect8679Also each time, all the time, and always.
It’s a simple conversation that ATC should have just done if they wanted the exact fuel I’m pounds so bad. It’s so simple
Pilot should have said, "We have 7621 stone in fuel remaining ."
@@placiaffect8679 Ha! Yeah, I had a math professor that would say that when teaching and making a point about an equation, and I always had to pay really close attention in math so it’s kinda stuck with me.
Must've been a rare case where the third-party receiver we're hearing had a better signal than ATC.
Newark approach needs to get some additional training for understanding radio communications, that was painful to listen to.
The funny (and annoying thing) about a lot of US controllers is that they don't understand English unless it's in a US accent. Anyone around the world who speaks English understood those Swiss pilots easily. And the radio quality is better than what is captured on these videos.
Most Americans in these comments understood the pilots. I certainly did. Newark is an international airport and they hear all kinds of accents. I don't think it was the accent. The ATC just wasn't listening.
@@elizabeth5985 Or ATC's workload was too high. I agree, I had zero difficulty in understanding what the Swiss pilot was saying.
I only know US English, have trouble with accents, and I had no trouble understanding the pilots. Sometimes easier than ATC!
i'm from england. the swiss pilot was speaking perfect english. total clarity.
@@cliveramsbotty6077 I would guess that he's a native speaker of German, one of the main languages of Switzerland, but it took me some time to decide on German or French. His English is outstanding for a non-native speaker.
Is it just me, or was the entire ATC team completely off their game that night...
Yeah, the first was the most egregious, but the following two were also definitively subpar.
They were all TERRIBLE
Not just that night... a few weeks later a Swiss flight was cleared for take off and at the same time FOUR others were cleared to cross that runway.
Do American controllers just not pass on any special info? My goodness the amount of times the pilot had to repeat himself on his requests.
They all seemed pretty stupid.
The irony is ... your actually the stupid one... bet neither of you guys are controllers nor know anything about being a controller in the second busiest Aircraft sector there is in the world. They have to ask these information for safety reasons and for crews on the ground.. This was perfect by both crews
They do. To people on the ground. The pilot was speaking with three different towers who (generally)have no communication with each other. You will notice at the end, that the woman said that the fire brigade and police were already waiting for him when he landed.
That ATC has me screaming, and I'm lying on my bed in a quiet room. I can't imagine how the pilot stayed so calm.
"We're going to relay that information." Are you really? The last guy didn't. This ATC comms is infuriating. Props to the pilots for being so patient.
I had to pause and walk circles around my living room whenever ATC fumbled. It was so frustrating to watch
Serious question - are ATC's required to do yearly physicals that include HEARING TESTS?! If not, it's time to start!
Air Traffic Controllers are required to maintain a class II medical, valid for one year, which includes a hearing test.
@@patricklora4434yeah, but if it’s like the CDL or pre-employment physical, that test is usually someone rubbing their fingers next to your ear and asking if you hear it.
I’m not sure ATC has bad hearing, though. I think he was struggling with the Swiss accent. At an airport like Newark, it might not be bad to play recordings of various accents for ATCs so they can get used to them.
I’m an AME (Aviation Medical Examiner). ATC physicals do include a formal audiogram assessment. Pilots only have to demonstrate normal “conversational hearing”.
@@davidgreer1785 that’s interesting, and very smart.
@@FireandbubblesOn the other hand, that was the mildest French/Swiss accent I have ever heard.
I love how the fuel quantity goes down every time he reports it.
Even the news article on the incident got the number of passengers wrong. What on earth? "Okay, so you have 801 kilos of passengers on board and seven cabbages of fuel?" -- Air Traffic Circus.
That ATC is unacceptable
That ATC man.. jeez.
They are controlling aircraft movements???? Oh dear.
What an absolute clusterf-ck with ATC in relaying critical information down the line.
“Do you need further assistance at this time?”
“Yeah, we need that fire brigade to look at our brakes so that the aircraft doesn’t burn down on the way to the gate. Oh, yeah and don’t forget the police to take the lunatic into custody.”
Some people say that foreigners have bad pronunciation, but what if US ATC experienced ATC work abroad?
They would understand how US ATC does not follow the internationally defined grammar and terminology that ATC should use, and how they use terms and units that are only used in the US.
The pilot's English and pronunciation in this video are not bad, and there are no mistakes in the grammar, terms, and units used, and the explanation of what is required is easy to understand.
People who make fun of the English ability of people from overseas and use that as an excuse should try going to a country where English is not spoken and studying the local language.
It was easy to mishear the pilot's first couple attempts to state fuel in particular, because he tripped a little bit over seemingly deciding what units he wanted to use, and his accent, but I'd think someone working Newark would have good familiarity with accents. In any event, they did work it out, but perhaps some accent familiarization training would be helpful to speed things along in tense or emergency situations.
@@don_5283 the pilot had a French accent, however not really heavy. Controller though seemed to understand pounds only. Well maybe ounces, as he didn't need education for that.
"Newark, we've changed our mind. We'll take our chances at JFK"
Not sure they’re much better over there.
Most likely "Newark, we've changed our mind and would like to divert to Toronto"
What is up with ATC's audio quality? That was absolutely painful to listen to and glad it wasn't something more pressing (although serious)
Exaggerating is also a skill
@@josh....... The problem is, if the plane has a direct line of sight to the ATC antenna, then the ATC has a direct line of sight to the plane, and they should hear each other fine. That communication should always be at least as good as the recording, if not better. If you can understand this, then the ATC should be able to hear it just fine, barring tech problems on his side, either hardware or wetware.
@@josh.......if the pilot can hear ATC loud and clear, ATC can hear the pilot loud and clear: these stations have a send and receive capability.
Wow. This first ATC there was the most unprofessional I’ve heard and one of them seemed deaf. Excellent behavior by the pilot.
I'd like to believe there were some technical difficulties 'cause the ATC were just too comical
Not going to explain it all, but the first ATC did all the work. The other controllers just had a routine aircraft with what they knew was a non-emergency (save for the hot landing)
One of the main differences between US and European ATC is US, in particular New York ATC it seems, asks a question with a statement e.g. “No further assistance required” rather that “ Is any further assistance required”? It is much clearer to ask a direct question rather than rely on the interpretation of a statement, particularly when dialects are involved.
I'm curious: in everyday language, answering negative questions is often ambiguous, e.g. "[do you need] no further assistance?" - "no"/"yes" (both meaning "we do not", possibly). I imagine this doesn't get better with "affirmative"/"negative", does it?
Avoiding negated questions obviously solves this.
(For language nerds: In addition to yes/no (ja/nein), German has a third word for exactly this purpose, "doch", meaning "actually yes", which rejects a statement containing a negative.)
OMG That Pilot was so Patient. Wanted to Scream at the Atc Man. Really kept his Cool. Respect to Pilot. 😊😊
"48,400kg, 48.4 tonnes" "is that pounds"
ffs
Everyone commenting on the first controller being deaf but I'm much more concerned with whether his difficulty tracking the convo is actually a sign of that ATC being understaffed for the workload they're facing (having too many radios transmissions to monitor).
I think one is a consequence of the other: stating one is as correct as the other, because they're linked. If understaffed => overworked => more stressed => less good at communicating
Swiss pilot is so polite. ATC needs hearing aids.
ATC needs to upgrade their mic/headphones from a potato.
I think it has more to do with IQ
The atc people were a bit of a worry! 😢 Thank you for the video. All the best from Sydney Australia 🇦🇺
This video (recording) is a fine example of the problem that exists at the FAA and at contracted controller companies getting competent ATC's on the job. We really have an acute problem in this area and many more withing the air transportation industry.
After the PANPAN PANPAN PANPAN and asking a confirm I couldn't take this ATC anymore. Watching any further would just have me tossed in the rage cage. WTF
That is one patient and clearly exhausted/exasperated pilot.
Pilot: PANPAN PANPAN PANPAN
ATC: Did you say pan pan?
*facepalm*
Right?! I'm mildly surprised that ATC didn't come back and ask if he wanted a frying, sauce, or gold pan.
this first fucking controller man
"How much fuel do you have?"
"48,400kg"
"how much fuel do you have?"
"48,300kg or 48.3 tons"
"248lbs?"
"Yes we have approximately one minute of fuel remaining!"
Each engine runs about 11 lb per second at cruise so that's about 10 seconds of fuel.
Controller: "You want the fire what???...Brigade??...huh?? " Also Controller with headset off : "Hey Joe get a load of how these Swiss guys speak!! It's like a foreign language or something."
Another brilliant case if US ATC going „oh, so someone is in danger? Stop what your doing and answer all my very important questions right now! Multiple times please, i was not paying attention. Can you give me that in football fields or Olympic pools? And just for fun, tell the next four controllers the exact same thing again, because why not. It’s not like you got other stuff to do….“ Don’t get me wrong ATC mostly does a great job (and NY is particularly stressful), but PLEASE when it comes to emergencies: LISTEN UP, PAY ATTENTION, DO NOT ASK NON CRITICAL QUESTIONS AND FOR GOD SAKE PASS ALONG THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE!
Rumour has it that ATC still has no clue about how much fuel were remaining on that jet.
Pilot should've just responded with: Asked and answered, and then proceeded to enjoy a choccolate before landing, because that what swiss pilots do in an emergency.
ATC is still busy trying to figure out how to convert kg to lbs.
Like others posting comments, I was dismayed at the lack of real listening by all the ATC folks. It's like they don't talk to one another or pass the info on. The pilot must think Americans are deaf, incompetent, or at least not focused on their jobs.
Pilot: "We have 7621 stone in fuel remaining."
ATC: "Understood loud and clear."
Didnt copy, how much is that in washing machines?
Pilot: "We have 48t of fuel remaining"
ATC: "You have 250 PAN PAN for fuel"
Will there be a crossover video to the police body cam when arrest the passenger?
That woulds be sweet, I was curious also if this may be from anything else I've watched, lol
Can you please convert your fuel onboard to equivalent sized Olympic swimming pools
nice to hear SWISSAIR again ;-)
Came to say the same 😂 they still not know in the US that Swissair doesn't exist anymore for more than 20 years 😂
So What It's Still Swissair 😜
What is the issue with ATC's ears? And why doesn't information get relayed? Awesome comms on the pilots' part; ATC was embarrassing.
I can understand everything the pilot said, despite his accent. Maybe I should be an ATC.
His accent and phraseology was awesome
You would most definitely do a better job than ATC #1. That was brutal.
I understand that this is not an everyday procedure for ATC or the pilots involved but the fact that ATC even got the call sign wrong (it’s SWISS not Swissair, they went bankrupt in 2002) makes it even worse.
Listening to this, I'm wondering which of the ATC and pilot is the native English speaker !!!
The pilot was speaking clearly and patiently...
Props to the pilot, talk about stressfull.
So Swissair19c are you in an airplane?
This should be training in how not to handle an emergency as ATC. I can’t believe how often the pilot had to repeat himself.
Pilot: Passenger is being extremely loud and is trying to enter the cockpit.
Passengers: Whelp, time to beat someone's ass.
"Thank you for your support."
/sarc
Metric vs imperial strikes again.
This also sounds like an opportune situation for one of those discrete frequencies the Dutch ATCs pull out at the whiff of an emergency.
Exactly, this was painful to hear. I guess Swiss19C was about to cut his cheese with a Swiss army knife, he must be that annoyed!
Pilot patience grandmaster level.
New York Area controllers should be better than this. They handle so much international traffic that they ought to be better with foreign accents and language barriers.
I'm not sure whether it was only about the accent. ATC wasn't able to recognize the words "kilograms" and "tons" even though pilot repeated those. "248 pounds", to me that sounded like the controller hasn't got a clue about airliners, either. I'm sure he'd be aware though that a 33oz meal is too little for him.
Usually it's me who can't hear well, this time it seems it was the ATC.
Its seemed like such efffffing hard work to get ATC and tower to get him down and all sorted with backup it makes me wonder how many pilots/crew don't bother with PAN PANs if its so hard to get appropriate back up form ATC and Tower.
Pilot did great, not so much for ATC. They did their job but engaged a busy pilot too much and did not communicate clearly what was going on, requiring the pilot to have to make repeated requests to confirm. Also, when dealing with pilots where English is not their primary language, spell out points, especially when they are in stressful situations.
The pilot was one fuel repeat request away from breaching the control tower. Yes sir, 248 pounds of fuel onboard our A330.
Even you got it wrong: he said 48,200 kilograms of fuel or 48.2 tonnes.
@@peterparker219 ATC at one point asks 248 kg?
That pilot was probably thinking: I'm already having a shitty day, I am not converting Kg to pounds for you.
I often get a sense that whenever something outside the ordinary happens US ATC just start going zombie mode on some checklist shaking in their boots about pleasing head office and just completely forget how to actually accommodate the emergency and help the pilots
UA-cam, really? You delete a comment about that day? I will try again. On that day in September on the 11th in 2001, air traffic controllers all across America managed to reroute and ground literally hundreds of flights. Not a single one was lost, except the ones that were taken by the ones who say Hi, Jack, er... I would say that they did a phenomenal job for an unprecedented event with no warning. May those who lost their lives RIP.
This whole encounter with ATC is incredibly disconcerting. Terrible communication across controls. Training video for the FAA me thinks.
ATC has earwax problem?
He's free roaming the cabin and can't be restrained?
"This is your Captain speaking. Please remain seated with your belts on and be prepared to use your oxigen masks, we're gonna ventilate some pest..."
Then open a door. Easy way to deal with these kind of idiots.
(Just in case anyone has a broken irony detector or something, it's a joke... but man, wouldn't it be nice to do it!)
Also, give all those ATC new ears, please!!!
omg the communication between the two of them was ridiculous! I don't know about those guys in the tower, but the poor pilot had to repeat and correct them sooo many times. I wouldn't have been so calm with them.
ATC didn’t even ask if the cockpit was secure. Somebody needs to give this controller phone number.
Had something similar onboard SWISS on their A340s enroute Hong Kong, had to make an amergency landing in Khazakstan!
Terrible ATC. VERY DISAPPOINTING. AWESOME PILOTS❤
NO! The pilot gave the worst possible answers dude who the hell uses Kilos??? Or souls on board being broken up between passengers and crew? Swiss needs to train their pilots better in communications. END OF.
@@BadJellyman100EVERYONE EXCEPT THE US FUCKING DOES, BECAUSE IT IS THE SUPERIOR MEASUREMENT.
Pilot training in Switzerland is excellent and pilots in Europe generally have to go through considerably more examinations in order to obtain the same privileges FAA pilots have.
Educate yourself next time.
@@donramown2495 educate YOUR self genius. Fuel is measured in hours. As in how many hours can you stay in the air. No matter the unit weight doesn't mean jack to someone who doesn't know the burn rate of that craft. As for "excellent" training why would they communicate in such confusing manner? Tell me you've never worked in aviation without saying you've never worked in aviation
@@donramown2495AH
@@BadJellyman100 Alright in easy words for you :)
The unit of measurement for fuel remaining doesn't matter. This report is primarily for the fire department and to have it recorded on the tapes. It is not to determine how much longer the aircraft will be able to stay airborne, therefore time it DOES NOT have to be reported in time. Every ATC is familiar with kgs or at least should be.
The only person involved messing up communication is the first ATC. While talking to a pilot who was clearly in a urgency/distress situation he managed to miss the information he asked for himself multiple times. They were reported clearly understandable despite the accent. The ATC even managed to miss the PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN PAN which is honestly astounding. But yeah the swiss guys are the ones in need for communication training, for sureeee!
Oh and I hate to mention stuff like that but I am a commercial pilot under FAA & EASA as well as a CFII, since you had to bring up the qualifications dick comparison ;)
Pilot declared Panpan THRICE! and ATC still can ask, you Panpan?
For real the atc is completely incompetent. They should really send their atc in training to Europe for some proper training on how to handle these situations instead of constantly bothering pilots with idiotic questions…
"Passenger trying to get into cockpit". I think that's enough of a red flag, open a damn runway for him.
I looked this up and was appalled to find out that I can fly from New Jersey to Zürich, Switzerland, for 700 bucks, but it costs 600 bucks just to get from Tucson, Arizona, to DFW. What gives?
Lack of competition amongst US carriers and they all adjust prices up together. There’s no incentive to to undercut the competition, what little they have. Europeans travel around Europe much more than Americans do around the US because of the plentiful affordable flights not to mention airlines are also competing with convenient rail service.
@@cruisinguy6024 sounds about right. $0.70 per mile (AZ to TX) doesn't sound unreasonable, but knowing I could fly for $0.10 per mile, if I go overseas, it is.
Can’t understand why giving fuel in different measurements is such an issue? That information is for the Fire Services right? In which case, just pass it on and let them do the conversion while they’re staging 🤷♂️ why should it be on the pilots to convert it, they’ve got enough to deal with. Comes across as almost vindictive - you’re in our airspace, you’ll use our measurement system sort of thing.
Totally agree with the other comments, first controller was atrocious. Also the Tower controller with “no further assistance required”?! That must have spooked the Pilot, thinking nothing had been passed on (which wouldn’t have been all that surprising given the listening skills of the first Controller we hear) and that no-one was waiting. Maybe try saying “Fire Service waiting to meet you and Police are at the Gate, any other services required?”
I feel like if they just left and came back there’s not a real need to ask for it in time. Get the weight, and if it sounds seriously low, get it in time then. Let them report the weight however it shows up for them.
The first incompetent controller needs to lose his job. I understood every single word the pilot said and he made the poor guy repeat nearly every transmission. Ridiculous.
How are American ATC always so overwhelmed when crews tell them the fuel remaining in tons 😂
Just like Americans get overwhelmed by hearing Km/hr instead of Mp/hr. 🤣
That controller needs his medical evaluated with his audiologist
I don't know whether it's the radio or the accent but I feel the communication should be a LOT smoother in such a critical field. In my country they only fix things when people die, I thought aviation is better.
Cant wait to see the bodycam footage for this one
There are some crazy people in this world!!! Great job on the pilot's remaining calm even when it seemed ATC was having trouble understanding the gravity of the situation...usually is the opposite!
Is the ATCs headset broken or something? Jesus Christ, I was yelling 48.2 tonnes at my Tv 😂
I seriously take breaks from these clips because ATC is so stressful to listen to. The Swiss pilot is speaking PERFECT English and the ATC has $800 headphones on.