Bmw N54 load, boost, traction, gear change are done with huge timing drops- like 30deg swing, throttle reduction if needed. Throttle stays 100% open during gear change so BOV dont work unless overboost spike on upshift. An intertwined balancing act
Hi good afternoon! GPS style is for sure great in some applications. What we wanted to highlight in this video is more aimed towards those wanting to utilize speed sensors and wheel / driveshaft speed control. Maybe we can touch on that subject in another video :)
I like the idea of retrofitting the hall effect into the factory ABS sensor location. My E36 has VR sensors in the front and rear for the ABS. I will not be using the ABS as my car is also being run in land speed events. I was going to use the factory sensors but the FuelTech ECU I am using has to use a VR to hall / analog to digital converter. Not sure why I didnt think about using a universal hall sensor like you showed in the video but I appreciate the info. I think I will set this up similar on my car just to avoid the failure point of using a converter. I also like that using that universal sensor you can fine tune the sensor gap with the threaded sensor and lock nut in that custom bracket. Now I just need to find a fabricator willing to build a set of brackets for my car. I really enjoy these videos a lot, thanks for the time and effort.
This is something we're working on putting together :) Once we have ready to go i'll come back and find this comment to reply with a link and we'll get a release video out for it as well !
Thanks for sharing. Using two types of traction control strategies I see. Driveshaft target until 2 seconds and then slip percentage after. That is great. Which motec firmware package offers driveshaft aim traction control?
In rear engine transaxle setups (aircooled VWs and Porsches) where are the drive shaft sensors supposed to go? On each rear tire-side CV joint? I’d assume they need to go on both driver and passenger side if the car is running an open diff or a limited slip versus some sort of locking differential?
Jay - it wasn't clear to me why you wouldn't use the same tooth count on your non-driven wheel? I understand that higher tooth count is more important on the driven wheel, but is there any disadvantage to running it on the non-driven wheel?
There wouldn't be any disadvantage, it just isn't necessary. The reason is, on a 2wd vehicle you are only using the non driven wheel speed as a control, and wont be applying any correction to it via timing or fuel cut as it is not connected to the powertrain. Therefore the lower resolution isn't much of a concern as the front wheels are not going to be losing traction in a straight line as they are not "driven." So if it was doing 50mph 30 degrees ago on the non driven wheel, it wont be making a change large enough in those 30 degrees before the next tooth, that the control would cause an unwanted correction at the driven wheel. Now if the front and rear are the same tooth count, then the control wheel speed (non driven wheel) and the driven wheel speed will track together, meaning the control speed and the driven wheel speed would occur at the same time at the ECU, so corrections could occur in real time (although we are splitting milliseconds here). I don't have data to prove this, but I would think that a tooth difference front to rear would cause a slight (but possibly unmeasurable) issue where the ECU would have corrections that would not be needed. For example, if the front wheel had 2 teeth we would only know the speed at every 180 degrees of rotation as our control, and if the vehicle had a 5 mph increase in speed as measured at the higher resolution/tooth count driven wheels over that same 180 degrees rotation, then it could make unwanted corrections as the front and rear would have a large enough difference in that time. Most aftermarket traction control will allow you to set up the allowed wheel slip though and I imagine this could be tuned out as a base correction through testing in good conditions. But again this would likely only be a major concern if using a high resolution rear with a VERY low resolution front. On a control wheel (non driven) id guess anything over about 10 to 12 teeth would be fine as there aren't many cars that will have a large enough increase in speed over 30 to 35 degrees of rotation to cause any unwanted corrections. This all goes out the window in an AWD vehicle though as now you don't have a "control wheel speed" to use for corrections.
Great video- I presume you have good luck with ignition retard then? I just remember some turbo V8 guys saying retard didn't work for them as the retarded ignition would spool the turbos harder so cancelled it out. I know of some systems that do fuel cut, and as its a full cut it's meant to be safe, but it still scares me a bit that it wouldn't be full...
It would depend heavily on the application. Some engines react different than others to ignition retard or cutting, so its important to test different methods until you iron out the best version for your exact setup. Thanks for watching!
I love the way Jay explains things where even someone as dumb as me can still understand.
Bmw N54 load, boost, traction, gear change are done with huge timing drops- like 30deg swing, throttle reduction if needed.
Throttle stays 100% open during gear change so BOV dont work unless overboost spike on upshift.
An intertwined balancing act
Those engines are pretty sweet! Its cool to see the differences needed between platforms.
@@realstreetperformance
would love to hear "jays" thought about this: "can engine be damaged internaly with adding oil while the engine is hot?"
Thanks for your time Jay , important info. For sure !
Thank y’all! I am installing 4 wheel speed sensors on an 87 F-250 with a modified 460 Haltech. All for safety while towing and inclement weather.
Thats awesome! Can never have enough data :)
I have to learn how to do all this soon. It will be a process but I want to learn it. Just went to a standalone.
Love the videos. I think the GPS style traction control would have been worth mentioning since it’s still around.
Hi good afternoon! GPS style is for sure great in some applications. What we wanted to highlight in this video is more aimed towards those wanting to utilize speed sensors and wheel / driveshaft speed control. Maybe we can touch on that subject in another video :)
I like the idea of retrofitting the hall effect into the factory ABS sensor location. My E36 has VR sensors in the front and rear for the ABS. I will not be using the ABS as my car is also being run in land speed events. I was going to use the factory sensors but the FuelTech ECU I am using has to use a VR to hall / analog to digital converter. Not sure why I didnt think about using a universal hall sensor like you showed in the video but I appreciate the info. I think I will set this up similar on my car just to avoid the failure point of using a converter. I also like that using that universal sensor you can fine tune the sensor gap with the threaded sensor and lock nut in that custom bracket. Now I just need to find a fabricator willing to build a set of brackets for my car. I really enjoy these videos a lot, thanks for the time and effort.
Thats cool to hear youre also venturing into the Land Speed racing side of things. Good luck with the build and thanks for sharing!
Teacher Jay good evening.
Great video guys! Lots of good info here
Thanks for watching!
Jay! Great vid, could u do one specific to FWD?
Hi jay, do you offer the sensors and mounts on your supra as a kit? I cant see on your website
This is something we're working on putting together :) Once we have ready to go i'll come back and find this comment to reply with a link and we'll get a release video out for it as well !
Thanks for sharing. Using two types of traction control strategies I see. Driveshaft target until 2 seconds and then slip percentage after. That is great. Which motec firmware package offers driveshaft aim traction control?
Is there a Reluctor ring for the DSS drive shafts to fit in the factory position so I can remain using the ABS sensor?
Can you create a "how to build a high performance engine for a VG30DETT" course for purchase?
Could you cover a powering, wiring and getting signal from a magneto resistive sensor?
In rear engine transaxle setups (aircooled VWs and Porsches) where are the drive shaft sensors supposed to go? On each rear tire-side CV joint? I’d assume they need to go on both driver and passenger side if the car is running an open diff or a limited slip versus some sort of locking differential?
Hi Jay, with a modern standalone ecu (haltech/motec etc) is wheel speeds coming in via CAN bus from the ABS system fast enough to be effective?
What ecu runs traction control and if I have a terminator x max how can the 2 ecu’s communicate
Please make a video for AWD 😢
Interesting. What sort of traction control method is typically used for high powered rwd street cars? Presumably front to rear wheel comparison?
maximum 10% of slip
Jay - it wasn't clear to me why you wouldn't use the same tooth count on your non-driven wheel? I understand that higher tooth count is more important on the driven wheel, but is there any disadvantage to running it on the non-driven wheel?
There wouldn't be any disadvantage, it just isn't necessary. The reason is, on a 2wd vehicle you are only using the non driven wheel speed as a control, and wont be applying any correction to it via timing or fuel cut as it is not connected to the powertrain. Therefore the lower resolution isn't much of a concern as the front wheels are not going to be losing traction in a straight line as they are not "driven." So if it was doing 50mph 30 degrees ago on the non driven wheel, it wont be making a change large enough in those 30 degrees before the next tooth, that the control would cause an unwanted correction at the driven wheel. Now if the front and rear are the same tooth count, then the control wheel speed (non driven wheel) and the driven wheel speed will track together, meaning the control speed and the driven wheel speed would occur at the same time at the ECU, so corrections could occur in real time (although we are splitting milliseconds here). I don't have data to prove this, but I would think that a tooth difference front to rear would cause a slight (but possibly unmeasurable) issue where the ECU would have corrections that would not be needed. For example, if the front wheel had 2 teeth we would only know the speed at every 180 degrees of rotation as our control, and if the vehicle had a 5 mph increase in speed as measured at the higher resolution/tooth count driven wheels over that same 180 degrees rotation, then it could make unwanted corrections as the front and rear would have a large enough difference in that time. Most aftermarket traction control will allow you to set up the allowed wheel slip though and I imagine this could be tuned out as a base correction through testing in good conditions. But again this would likely only be a major concern if using a high resolution rear with a VERY low resolution front. On a control wheel (non driven) id guess anything over about 10 to 12 teeth would be fine as there aren't many cars that will have a large enough increase in speed over 30 to 35 degrees of rotation to cause any unwanted corrections. This all goes out the window in an AWD vehicle though as now you don't have a "control wheel speed" to use for corrections.
Jay again with the Sigil of Lucifer hand sign in the thumbnail
Great video- I presume you have good luck with ignition retard then? I just remember some turbo V8 guys saying retard didn't work for them as the retarded ignition would spool the turbos harder so cancelled it out.
I know of some systems that do fuel cut, and as its a full cut it's meant to be safe, but it still scares me a bit that it wouldn't be full...
It would depend heavily on the application. Some engines react different than others to ignition retard or cutting, so its important to test different methods until you iron out the best version for your exact setup. Thanks for watching!
Traction control is a nanny and should be considered cheating