Small case I want to make for the white flag: when I'm not going endless, and I see it in the wave 18 or wave 19 shop, I might buy it because I don't need to build my economy anymore and all I'm aiming for is to survive wave 20. Less enemies makes that slightly easier to do.
Scared sausage is used on any character. It applies burning on attacks. You dont want it on elementalist because burning doesn't stack with other burning. Its basically free damage on all non elemental weapons. So I think it is better thay bottom d tier. Also the only burning thay does stack is incendiary turret and regular burn
When doing these tier lists, especially surrounding the more greedy items, a difference between a normal run and a "save scum" run (quitting as you're about to die) becomes pretty important. The piggy bank gives you an ability to buy it, not buy anything else in the shop, hop into a wave, and either 1. Win, gaining bunch of free money or 2. Realise you dont have enough DPS, quit, go back into shop and buy items. S tier for piggy if you're doing that. Ugly tooth should be A tier, if you're going a ranged dmg build then just buy the speed back, and enemies around you will consistently be 10-30% slower
True! You can definitely get an edge by doing that - my ratings assume you're not restarting waves, but if you are then some items will change in value. I would definitely rate ugly tooth higher in retrospect I think, I buy that item basically all the time
Yeah I guess technically by my criteria padding is D tier, since you can buy it on saver and streamer, but I like putting it in F tier mostly because I think it's important to emphasize how bad -speed is
I find Alien Eyes quite powerful. It shows alot of delt damage in the stats after a run. Also Piggy Bank is an S tier. I save not hundreed but a grand, and after that the money is not an issue at all.
Honestly i love alien eyes, since i usually build a lot of health and the damage is always so high. If youre using SMG or any his dps character it really speeds up how fast you can get out of crowds. And if you get a second set of eyes its huge. I feel like the dmg numbers it shows arent lying imo
@@Cephalopocalypse i don't think you lifesteal with it, which def hurts the value overall. I just feel like when I look at the dmg stats in my items, that's almost always the highest one, which has to count for something haha
@@onekidarmy you should be able to! afaik they work exactly like normal projectiles - bounce, pierce, lifesteal etc. One thing to keep in mind though is the damage stats for items show *total* damage across all waves, and the weapon stats just include the previous wave. I'm not sure why it's displayed that way but it's confusing
Alien eyes are interesting because like you said they are usually pretty bad, however if you're going for an endless run they become S tier as you will be using padding to have a ton of HP making them do a ton of damage.
Good call! I should definitely mention in the next video that this tier list is aimed at winning danger 5, and modded, difficulty percent adjusted, and endless runs will all change things.
Love these guides! I just wanted to clarify something about the gambling chip. You say armor scales linearly, and dodge scales multiplicatively, which is not false, but might be misleading. I think of armor as scaling multiplicatively, as the bonus gets smaller and smaller as the 7% reduction gets compounded. To me, the scaling is linear if I'm adding the same amount of bonus each point -- 1% dodge is always worth 1% dodge, but every point of armor is worth a different % of HP. If I think about it in terms of "10 points of dodge is twice as good as 5 points of dodge", then "scaling multiplicatively" makes sense. It depends on what level of calculus you're thinking hehe. So I'm much more likely to take the gambling chip if my armor is high and unlikely to take it if my armor is low.
So it's very counterintuitive and I have a video planned to explain this in more detail, but it's actually the exact opposite of that! 10 points of dodge is *more* than twice as valuable as 5 points of dodge, and 1 point of armor is always exactly the same no matter how much you have. The reason is that it doesn't actually change your HP, it changes incoming damage, and the smaller that gets the more each reduction is worth. Imagine you have 100 hp, and are taking 10 damage instances - 10% dodge makes those 9 on average, so it means you take 11.1 attacks to die, an 11% increase in Effective HP. 20% dodge makes you take 8 on average, or 12.5 attacks (+25% EHP), so the second 10 dodge were worth 14% EHP, more than the first 10. Going from 50% to 60% dodge is worth 50% EHP for only ten points of dodge! The math on armor works out such that each point is always worth 6.66% EHP no matter how much you have. Hope that helps!
@@Cephalopocalypse Its true many people miss the math on how dodge works in games and how much more valuable it is, the higher it gets. You are 100% right on this.
The incendiary turret is actually incredible if you get just a small amount of life steal. With as little as 5% life steal the incendiary turret outheals the medical turret... from across the map. It does area of effect and it burns enemies, each tick of damage capable of triggering life steal. It's really incredible if used as a healing item, since it's basically useless as a damage item - this thing isn't gonna kill anything, which makes it even better as a healing item. Same thing as pocket factory. All those extra turrets allows for more healing, even if you aren't specialized in engineering it still increases your survivability by a substantial margin.
Unfortunately, primary stats like lifesteal don't affect constructs, so you can't lifesteal off incendiary turrets or pocket factory. If you could it would be amazing though!
My god this guy must work in accounting and finance. More worried about making more money🤣 nearly all money making items are in his S tier list. Unfortunately he’s not using his own principle of opportunity cost which would be the case in a lot of cases. Sometimes a damage item would be better off allowing you to kill more enemies and actually gain more money that way AND make your build better.
Small case I want to make for the white flag: when I'm not going endless, and I see it in the wave 18 or wave 19 shop, I might buy it because I don't need to build my economy anymore and all I'm aiming for is to survive wave 20. Less enemies makes that slightly easier to do.
Scared sausage is used on any character. It applies burning on attacks. You dont want it on elementalist because burning doesn't stack with other burning. Its basically free damage on all non elemental weapons. So I think it is better thay bottom d tier. Also the only burning thay does stack is incendiary turret and regular burn
When doing these tier lists, especially surrounding the more greedy items, a difference between a normal run and a "save scum" run (quitting as you're about to die) becomes pretty important. The piggy bank gives you an ability to buy it, not buy anything else in the shop, hop into a wave, and either 1. Win, gaining bunch of free money or 2. Realise you dont have enough DPS, quit, go back into shop and buy items. S tier for piggy if you're doing that.
Ugly tooth should be A tier, if you're going a ranged dmg build then just buy the speed back, and enemies around you will consistently be 10-30% slower
True! You can definitely get an edge by doing that - my ratings assume you're not restarting waves, but if you are then some items will change in value.
I would definitely rate ugly tooth higher in retrospect I think, I buy that item basically all the time
the padding is for the saver, you run around with 10k+ material at some point, you can easily reach 15-20k at wave 20, that's a lot of life
Yeah I guess technically by my criteria padding is D tier, since you can buy it on saver and streamer, but I like putting it in F tier mostly because I think it's important to emphasize how bad -speed is
I use it when I'm using thief knife.
Material adds up so fast yhe extra hp from the padding is grear
I find Alien Eyes quite powerful. It shows alot of delt damage in the stats after a run.
Also Piggy Bank is an S tier. I save not hundreed but a grand, and after that the money is not an issue at all.
Honestly i love alien eyes, since i usually build a lot of health and the damage is always so high. If youre using SMG or any his dps character it really speeds up how fast you can get out of crowds. And if you get a second set of eyes its huge. I feel like the dmg numbers it shows arent lying imo
That probably comes down somewhat to playstyle! I think I rate max hp lower than many players, so I have alien eyes correspondingly lower as a result
@@Cephalopocalypse i don't think you lifesteal with it, which def hurts the value overall. I just feel like when I look at the dmg stats in my items, that's almost always the highest one, which has to count for something haha
@@onekidarmy you should be able to! afaik they work exactly like normal projectiles - bounce, pierce, lifesteal etc. One thing to keep in mind though is the damage stats for items show *total* damage across all waves, and the weapon stats just include the previous wave. I'm not sure why it's displayed that way but it's confusing
Alien eyes are interesting because like you said they are usually pretty bad, however if you're going for an endless run they become S tier as you will be using padding to have a ton of HP making them do a ton of damage.
Good call! I should definitely mention in the next video that this tier list is aimed at winning danger 5, and modded, difficulty percent adjusted, and endless runs will all change things.
Love these guides! I just wanted to clarify something about the gambling chip. You say armor scales linearly, and dodge scales multiplicatively, which is not false, but might be misleading. I think of armor as scaling multiplicatively, as the bonus gets smaller and smaller as the 7% reduction gets compounded. To me, the scaling is linear if I'm adding the same amount of bonus each point -- 1% dodge is always worth 1% dodge, but every point of armor is worth a different % of HP.
If I think about it in terms of "10 points of dodge is twice as good as 5 points of dodge", then "scaling multiplicatively" makes sense. It depends on what level of calculus you're thinking hehe.
So I'm much more likely to take the gambling chip if my armor is high and unlikely to take it if my armor is low.
So it's very counterintuitive and I have a video planned to explain this in more detail, but it's actually the exact opposite of that! 10 points of dodge is *more* than twice as valuable as 5 points of dodge, and 1 point of armor is always exactly the same no matter how much you have.
The reason is that it doesn't actually change your HP, it changes incoming damage, and the smaller that gets the more each reduction is worth. Imagine you have 100 hp, and are taking 10 damage instances - 10% dodge makes those 9 on average, so it means you take 11.1 attacks to die, an 11% increase in Effective HP. 20% dodge makes you take 8 on average, or 12.5 attacks (+25% EHP), so the second 10 dodge were worth 14% EHP, more than the first 10. Going from 50% to 60% dodge is worth 50% EHP for only ten points of dodge!
The math on armor works out such that each point is always worth 6.66% EHP no matter how much you have. Hope that helps!
@@Cephalopocalypse Its true many people miss the math on how dodge works in games and how much more valuable it is, the higher it gets. You are 100% right on this.
The incendiary turret is actually incredible if you get just a small amount of life steal. With as little as 5% life steal the incendiary turret outheals the medical turret... from across the map. It does area of effect and it burns enemies, each tick of damage capable of triggering life steal. It's really incredible if used as a healing item, since it's basically useless as a damage item - this thing isn't gonna kill anything, which makes it even better as a healing item. Same thing as pocket factory. All those extra turrets allows for more healing, even if you aren't specialized in engineering it still increases your survivability by a substantial margin.
Unfortunately, primary stats like lifesteal don't affect constructs, so you can't lifesteal off incendiary turrets or pocket factory. If you could it would be amazing though!
yes you can? am i tripping? I definitely notice a difference@@Cephalopocalypse
My god this guy must work in accounting and finance. More worried about making more money🤣 nearly all money making items are in his S tier list. Unfortunately he’s not using his own principle of opportunity cost which would be the case in a lot of cases. Sometimes a damage item would be better off allowing you to kill more enemies and actually gain more money that way AND make your build better.