Why SELF HELP advice DOES NOT work for people in narcissistic relationships
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Self help doesn't work when you're the only one trying to make it better. They want the relationship just the way it is. All you have to do is bend to their will in their mind.
And it leads to such a horrible place where you're doing all of these things and getting no results or the relationship might even be getting worse because the narcissist loves that you're falling over yourself to appease them. Which leads to self-blame. "Maybe I'm not doing this right, maybe I'm not doing good enough." It's game that's rigged against you and will try to convince you that you're just not playing it right
Well said! they will exhaust every cell in your body...You can't bend enough to their will or jumps hoops to solve it.
And then when you do, they get bored and cheat 😂
Some already have them lined up has always been what I have witnessed.
I think the idea of self help is *you* are more aware of options and solutions and coping techniques if you want to stay and endure narcissistic abuse. Since narcissists never change you have hard decisions. Stay or leave. Or cope.
Self-help won’t work with a narcissist because they never think there is anything wrong with them. If anything, they’ll be the ones trying to give advice making you feel like there’s something wrong with you.
Yes, classic narcissist
Freaking spot on!!!
So true! How can a person do better if they can't see responsibility?
Self help is self explanatory. Its for you because they won't change.
@@jokendrick2124 this is so true! Unfortunately this is also the case with heroin addicts.
Do not depend on a narcissist for ANYTHING.
Their power source IS your dependency.
This includes you DEPENDING on them to SOMEDAY CHANGE.
They have NO power over you if you don't RELY on them for ANYTHING.
YOUR complete autonomous 100% independence emotionally, physically, AND financially IS their ULTIMATE KRYPTONITE. They have NO power over you unless you still NEED them or need to cling to the HOPE they will COME AROUND AND SEE YOUR POINT OF VIEW SOMEDAY.
IF they threaten to blackmail you, try to bribe you, threatened physical harm, threaten to get you locked up in a psychiatric care facility or jail after tricking you and provoking you into reactive abuse, PLEASE disentangle quickly BUT QUIETLY. Once a narcissist makes a direct threat to harm you or get you fired from your job or tries to get you locked up after abusing you to the point of insanity you MUST. RUN. QUIETLY. PLEASE. Let them think they have the upper hand whole youvplan your escape because until you DON'T NEED THEM FOR ANYTHING ANYMORE THEY STILL DO HAVE THE UPPERHAND.
PLEASE. STOP. LETTING. THEM. "HELP". YOU. WHEN. YOU. ARE. STRUGGLING. THEY. WILL. USE. THEIR. ACTS. OF. SERVICE. AS. LEVERAGE. TO. KEEP. YOU. FEELING. STUCK. AND INDEBTED. TO. THEM. SO. THAT. YOU. CANNOT. LEAVE. THEM. IT. IS. A. TRAP. IT. IS. A. HOSTAGE. SITUATION. LIKE. T*RRORISM
No advice is helpful because the narcissist doesn't want to work on a relationship or themselves. They aren't self aware & can't admit to mistakes. They can't compromise. One person can't do all the work while the other does nothing & has no interest in improving the relationship. In fact, if you try, they will use your words against you later, mocking you or being offended & angry because you even suggested they do something different. Intimacy is not their goal, control is what they want.
Truth. Well said.
I had to read another comment below in order to return to yours and then grasp what you are saying:
"I read multiple relationship help books, personal growth for myself, techniques to love right etc etc etc, until I realized there are TWO parties involved"
Whoa, I don't understand why this information is so hard for me to understand. I keep on feeling blamed and ashamed and responsible to fix anything that happens in life - regarding anything.
“It’s like blaming someone’s face for being in the way of another person’s fist.” Exact and profound statement, Dr. Ramani.
It's also my favorite line😄
Decades, absolutely...3 of them. 33 yrs actually. I kept "hoping" he'd wake up and see how he was treating me (& our 3, now adult, children) and change...did he? No, it only worsened over the yrs. The physical violence (to me) wasn't really there. "Hey, at least I don't black out your eyes right? So it can't be that bad." The destruction of our things (sorry, mostly my things), the holes in the walls, the food thrown, oh yes. I kept on hoping...to no avail.
The rages kept intensifying, kept getting closer and closer to each other. Then just 5 days after my 52nd birthday (July 20, 2023) and a little over a month away from our 33rd wedding anniversary...he started an "argument," (that of course was all my fault and I apparently started) his rage was beyond terrifying...I told him I wasn't going to engage him in this situation. He then screamed extremely loud "YOU WILL NOT FUCKING IGNORE ME BITCH!" Then proceeded to come out of the bathroom, come to my side of the bed, snatched my cell out of my hand (which was plugged into my charger, it broke off the charger, the charger cord hit my chin...I tried to get up off the bed and leave the room...he shoved me (hard) onto the bed. I tried to get up and vacate again...second time he shoved me back onto the bed (all the while screaming within inches of my face, with the most hatred I ever saw from him, which has been a lot over the yrs)...terrified I reached out for something to protect myself with. It ended up being a power strip that my charger had been plugged into and swung it. I hit him twice with it, to get him away from me. It wasn't my intention to hit him, it was only to get him to move away from me...he did move enough that I was aw to get off the bed. I headed for the bedroom door to get out...he pushed me from behind and I landed on the floor, face down. He then full on punched me twice on the back of my head. I turned and looked up at him and said, "now I am FINALLY fucking done!" To which he said, " yeah, I've heard that a million times before. You deserved that you cunt!" He ended up giving me bruises on the chin (from the charger cord, on my arm where he shoved me, knots on my head and a minor concussion from the punches to the head...I got up, went into the kitchen, he followed still screaming at me. Then he grabbed the truck keys and left...I called the police, signed an emergency protection order and said yes to wanting to press charges. I moved into the 5th wheel that my daughter and son-in-law have (on the same property). Didn't move back into the "main house," again. Then on Dec 8th, moved in with my sister. I am finally getting out and divorcing him. He has yet to believe that this is really it...has told my daughter "if things go to shit here, it's because of your mother and the narcissistic toxicity I have had to put up with all these years." He doesn't see how all 3 of the kids were there for all of this growing up...saw the abuse, dealt with their own abuse from him...and yet it's my fault for all of this. "Everybody is going to see what I've had to put up with all these years!" Oh man, there's so much more that could be said but I've said a lot here already. I'm beyond ready to truly start my healing journey...to finally figure out who I am. Never got the chance, met him at 17, came from an abusive family into his abuse. How do I even begin to figure out who I am. I'm 52, I have NO desire whatsoever to get close to another person like that again. Maybe friends but absolutely nothing more. He had ruined any thoughts of things of that nature. He can go have all "the strange" he wants...to me, he's just another person on the street. I no longer care what happens to him...good, bad or ugly. I know that's a step in the right direction. Now I can only hope and pray that I no longer hear his voice (& words) in my head all the time...the self-gaslighting is horrible, hard to stop...but after being conditioned for so long...how do you stop?! Ok, ok...now I really am shutting up. Those of you that actually read this to the end, thank you for listening. I pray for each and every one of us.
Hugs, you're not alone! Better late than never, start living your true life.
@@ly5142 now I just need to learn how to forgive myself for what I put my kids through...what I taught them to accept and that no matter what, you stay...so many wrong things I taught them... how do I learn to forgive me? They have all said they understand now and are thankful I made our house a home, that at least I was there for them...
Narcissists have a bottomless well of needs that you couldn't fill if you worked at it 24 hours a day. If their coping strategy is picking fights and creating chaos, it will happen no matter what you do or don't do
Exactly. You can never be perfect enough. They just won’t let there be peace in the relationship.
A physical therapist once told me to stop being a "victim" while I was trapped living with a malignant narcissist. They didn't understand, so I dropped out of therapy.
Physical therapists should not be involved in emotional therapy.
OMG THANK YOU! Somebody needed to call this out, because it is crazy-making when well-meaning therapists, friends, or family all keep giving the same generic platitudes about love and life. Not only is it not helpful at all, it shames the victim and keeps them stuck thinking that if they could just figure out how to be good enough or conduct themselves in just the right way, then they would have a loving, respectful, caring relationship. Like cracking a code or solving a riddle. But, NO! The whole point is the abuse! Their idea of love is getting you to continue to accept their abuse.
Whenever you find yourself trying to convince someone to treat you with kindness and respect, STOP.
You deserve kindness and respect from the git. People are worthy of being treated with kindness and respect no matter how flawed.
Narcs get in your head. They convince you that you deserve their disdain, betrayal, dismissal, bullying etc. They use triangulation, gaslighting, whataboutism, exaggerate your words to distort the point, shaming put-downs, silent treatment, you name it. They are a hydraheaded manipulation machine. The only way to win is to not play the game.
Leave. Quietly. Do not give them any emotional reaction at all. You tears and rage only feed them.
I promise, they do not feel bad for hurting you no matter how well you explain it to them. It is pointless to continue to exhaust yourself trying to explain something to someone who is absolutely COMMITTED to not understanding. You will not inspire them to see you or feel for you. If they are sad, they are only sad for themselves.
And because they cannot truly feel for another, they cannot love. It's sad but true. Love without empathy is just want. They "love" you only as far as what you add to their life. Like you'd love a car or any other object. Real love is caring for and valuing another's well-being.
Ironically, the truth in narcissists not being capable of love might bring you some peace as you work through the rage over all the ways they took advantage of you, betrayed you, and used you. They are pathetic, miserable, and small behind the smoke and mirrors. I mean, imagine waking up every morning having to be a sack of shit like them. Take comfort that you are not them. They are their own punishment. You can take solace in that.
Sve sto ste napisali je istina.Hvala na ovom komentaru,predobar je.❤
Thank you, this is so well articulated and really puts a lot of the realities into clear perspectives.❤
I'm in tears reading comments right now after the latest blowout with a narc, and your comment, 'I mean, imagine waking up every morning having to be a sack of shit like them.' gave me a genuine chuckle - I wish I had a real life friend like you, I have no friends right now. I've called him a POS and it was used against me like the worst offense in the world, when the things he did are too despicable for me to even mention.... thanks for the laugh.
@@MarinaLifeAnimal oh my heart hurts for you. I’ve been there. What he’s doing when he acts like you are the shittiest B to walk the earth for calling him a POS- it’s called “reactive abuse”. It’s a common tactic. And it is very effective in keeping people in a miserable fog of pain and self doubt.
If you allow him to talk, he has power. You’ll think that if you can see past his manipulation, you’ll be immune, but that’s not how it works. Gaslighting is POWERFUL 😵💫. Even when you know what he’s doing, it still takes hold in your mind. Don’t let him speak. Ya know that thing about vampires, how you have to let them in? It’s like that. Don’t let them in. Don’t let them speak. And don’t speak to them.
If he apologizes, notice how he never gets specific about what he’s sorry for. Never acknowledges his wrongdoing specifically. That’s when you know it’s just another means to end. A ploy to hook you in. He’ll say things like “ sorry I’m not perfect” 🙄
Make a list of every betrayal. A real list with pen and paper. You will need this list. When you’re in so much heartache and pain and he’s offering to help you up and lick your wounds, it’ll be very hard not to let him be so caring and nice again and treat you like he loves you. But you must remember who kicked you down into the mud! And now he’s a white knight for helping you back up ? And that’s how they get you. The abuse cycle continues. Over and over.
Good on you for seeking info on abuse. Keep it up. Trust yourself. And it sounds weird, but stick by yourself like you are a daughter that you believe in, that you’ll never abandon, and that you’ll fight for no matter what . We’re all rooting for you 🖤
@@SM-jw5si You are right about not letting them speak, it's finally clear that every word out of their mouths is manipulation or just simply meaningless. Usually though it's just silence, so there's never real communication. The sorry I'm not perfect line had me stop - that's exactly what he says instead of apologizing or even acknowledging my hurt feelings! Except he didn't even say sorry, it's "I know I'm not perfect" which drove me crazy because I never expected or asked for perfection as I'm fully aware none of us are perfect! ugh!
We're past the point of him even pretending to come pick me up, he's in full contemptuous revenge mode even though he won't properly end the relationship but has ran away from the apartment we share. It's a huge mess, I'm trying to claw my way out of the ditch.
To top it off, your line about treating myself as a beloved daughter I would do anything for really resonates with me, more than when people suggest imagining your inner child (like that's some sort of other entity, I'm still that child!). It really packs a punch too, because it's what I lack from my highly narcissistic family - the father in charge, enabler mother and golden child sister who is atrociously narcissistic and acts like a third parent, over me, the youngest, the scapegoat. Thank you for letting me share 🖤
The only thing that ever works is asking the simple question, "Do you want to live the rest of your life in this living hell?"
At some point, the victim will make a decision. Hopefully, sooner than later.
I thought I'd found a friend to share the tragedy of my narcissistic relationship that I'm stuck in. After a few weeks of sharing my stories, they began to tell me how I've contributed to my situation. I no longer consider them a friend. Period.
Re-read first sentence from his/her perspective. 🤯
@@nolagirlhomestead Yep. There are people who are not able to see other people as friend or anything close. They simply see other people as nuisance that they must endure in order not to be alone in this world and they force themselves to mimic being friendly - with horrible results when their mask slips off and they expose their zombie real face
Wise decision. Those who enable aren't friends.💪👍
💯💯💯💯
Being independent and indifferent is how you should deal with this inconsiderate individual. It's not like the usual healthy relationships.
Exactly it might be hard at first but gods the universe is with us .
Especially the independence in every way because you then don't see them as necessary in your life and healing acceptance will be easier.
That's why I don't do unhealthy relationships any longer. Narcs have ruined my mind to a point where I don't think I'll ever be the same. With intensive therapy I hope to conquer and be better though.
when I see her now at the gym, I notice the guys..plural...she surrounds herself with and they are ALL very indifferent ACTING. I know the truth..they secretly are panting inside, but they know the drill and game....OR...it could be that they are in fact, indifferent scumbags, which is exactly what she really wants. She values them more than decent people. I get it now why.
Yes. But first getting out safely and understanding narcissism are the priorities. Self help never cuts it at this stage of realization.
Self help advice is unfortunately not going to work on a person that has a toxic personality and concrete belief that they are owed and deserve the world endlessly; whilst feeling entitled to destroy others in whatever, whenever, however type of ways.
the excuses i got was "it takes 2 to tango" and "ignore it, it will go away" , 20 years later and no, its still carrying on.
Financial independence is the only way to free from narcissistic relationship. Self-help, motivation advices don't work if you have no opportunity to work with small kids or disabled kids for example. And also if you have a physical illness or old to get a job. At that times outside support is essential. Thanks Dr. Ramani❤
This is very true. Hence why my malignant narcissistic adoptive mother layered on HEAVY infantilization of me in my teens, crippled my self esteem to make money in my own and was financially abusive by docking my allowance for ANY reason at ALL just because she could. And now, as a 38 year old I have difficulty creating financial stability. I had so much entrepreneurial drive when I was younger and determination to be financially independent. After I courageously left her at 17, I met my first "boyfriend" who was 57 and exploited me out of all of my money and resources. He was a great financial burden and isolated me from ALL of the resources that I had in order to make me financially dependent on HIM. I felt so betrayed. Now that ALL of these vampires and parasites are out of my life, I am currently trying to restore my relationship with money that was tempered with from youth.
If I could like your comment 1 million times, I would. Financial independence is the key. Unfortunately people (especially women) are steered towards financial dependency, i.e. getting married or getting diagnosed with a condition and getting prescribed drugs so that they can get on benefits. In the UK, according to the Guardian, we have half a million of people under the age of 30 on benefits for medical conditions. Over one third of them for mental health problems, often diagnosed when they were teenagers... As a survivor of child sexual and physical abuse, and someone who has been living with cancer for a decade, it is super difficult to convince other people that I do not need drugs (or any other kind of medical treatment) and that I have the right to refuse drugs and treatment (I have insight) and that I do need is a job, so that I can pay my bills and live independently. I do see a physiotherapist (private sector) and an ophtalmologist (private sector again) and a dentist and travel overseas to see my GP of 20 + years and to have tests for cancer... but I pay for it out of my own pocket and my healthcare providers know that I need to remain financially independent is the key to me not falling back in the clutches of my narc family of origin... so being sick is not an option. It's perfectly possible for most people living with cancer to carry on working but you have to find a healthcare facility which sees patients in the evenings and at the weekend (for MRIs, biopsies, surgery, chemo etc.) and which does not cancel appointments... and that is not the way the NHS works! It also makes me mad how they always want your next of kin's contact details. I now give them the contact details of a bogus cousin. The phone number is a phone number I once used, it is still valid. Of course if a real 'next of kin' turned up at the hospital asking to see me, they wouldn't prevent them from entering... even if I had told them I didn't want to see them... so I end up not having any kind of treatment in the UK because I know I cannot trust them to protect me from my narc family.
Best place for a narcissist - in your rear view mirror !!!
I’ve been gaslit shamed and blamed so much for the abuse and harassment I experienced that I barely trust anyone and tend to isolate. Learning to find safe people and not take on the shame/blame. Thank you Dr Ramani❤
I'm in the exact same boat.
When you have c PTSD from narcissistic abuse the bubblegum pop culture advice from people who've never been physically, emotionally or financially harmed by their partner or parent do not help but serve as a reminder that making it through another day is a victory.
Well said! Amen🙏
This is so true. Nothing worked until I realised I was in an abusive relationship.
When the narcissist is in a raging fit, I don’t get “ONE” word in!
If I’m in the car with him, all Hell breaks and I’m trapped, so now I tape him and play it back for him. I am saving his raging fits on a drive for the future when I’m accused of being the crazy one. I can’t go on anymore and I’m looking for my way out! It’s the only thing I have left for freedom. Walk away!!!❤
Thank you for all you do for the narcissist survivors. You are the only one I go to for advice and logical solutions.
Which is alarming - because most therapists use discipline and shame instead of listening and compassion.
Unless the self-help is saying "Go full no-contact", it's not useful advice. Going full no-contact with the narcissist is the best possible solution
The narcissist who was in my relationship was a literal soul destroyer. He obviously never had one! My sister said ' I am fed up with you, you're like a long playing record, when you gonna learn to take the rough wth the smooth you cant have it all your own way......pfft. I am now estranged from my sister, and this, was during the most vulnerable time in my relationship with the evil swine I was living with.
Usually I 'pause' because I am gobsmacked and trying to make sense the word salad and gaslighting being thrown at me. The pause only gives him space to throw something new at me before I have even had time to process the previous statements. Crazy making.
As a survivor of narcissistic abusive relationship and someone who specializes in working with mothers of narcissistic abuse, I want to provide some guidance on this topic.
First and foremost, it's important to understand that narcissists often lack the capacity for empathy and genuine self-reflection, making it incredibly difficult for them to change their behavior. Instead of trying to fix or change the narcissist, it's crucial for individuals in these relationships to prioritize their own well-being and safety. This may involve seeking professional help, setting boundaries, and ultimately considering leaving the relationship for their own mental and emotional health.
In addition, it's important for victims to seek support from trusted friends, family, or mental health professionals who understand the dynamics of narcissistic abuse and can provide tailored guidance and support.
I hope this helps shed some light on this complex and challenging issue. If you or someone you know is struggling in a narcissistic relationship, please know that there is help and support
For a price.
Thank you.
@@yukio_saito you are certainly welcome..
@@Healingconsciously444LOL, I'm a man with NPD, what's your best advice other than go to therapy
That's the key one that you NEVER think of; take care of YOU. I'm still having a hard time doing that after 8 years out.
I've read relationship advice and often wondered what it would be like to be in a relationship where life was that nice and with problems that easy to solve.
Yes I wonder too , how a normal relationship would be ?!
I feel envious when I see “ normal “ couples 😢
Yeah that's the problem with it. I think people mean well when they say this but they really don't get it. It causes more harm to people than they realize.
@@surayalalloo8667 There is a healthy normal for you too. But the best healthy normal is with yourself first. After a narc you're better to have a relationship with a pet goldfish than a narc 👍
@@michellegirau8136 💯💯There needs to be more awareness of toxic relationships, and the harm ignorance on the subject can cause in the hands of people of influence.
I was, but her Narcissist 'friend' was jealous and sabotaged it.
It's hard enough getting good advice on narcissistic relationships. In my case the two people that have tried to "help" with my narcissistic family and narcissistic abuse were themselves narcissists. An absolute total nightmare.
That's what I say: must ppl who offer advice, not support, are usually an enabler or part of the toxicity. Decide internally it's not you.
@@nolagirlhomestead 💯 Agreed 👍
I just posted a question that you maybe quite qualified to answer! I hope that you do.. I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed by my new realizations … woah it’s a LOT!
I agree 100% because this is the main source of my anger when the topic is "self love and self help" because the more I tried to understand their side and give them space the more it was stolen from me and I was taught to give all of me and accept whatever I could get, so this kind of self help talk drains us more than helps us. And to somene who's been taught to be a neverending well to others, but never a well to yourself, thus kind of advice and "self help/everyone changes for the better" talk actually makes us try to dig a well out of a grave/dry soil. Nothing grows out of it.
23:20 you cannot look within yourself until you are educated about what it's also outside of you, so you can make an informed decision. The 'positivity' folks leave that rather important bit out.
All the positivity in the entire universe cannot help one who is experiencing narcissistic abuse
And the only thing that gets on pause in a narc relationship...
is your own life, your sanity and wellbeing....😥
Being a healthcare professional myself, am quite skeptical of therapists in general~ having observed clients left needing therapy to get over therapy, being many therapist are wackos themselves. BUT, finding myself duped by a master narc, I got so tired of being 'the strong one' & finally did reach out for help. Thank goodness I did & am ALIVE today to share this with all of you. Wow, I ate some crow & literally saved my life.
Therapy at the hands of a wacko therapist was the biggest mistake of my life. The impact of bad therapist is rarely acknowledged. Thank you for posting about it.
I’ve definitely had BOTH! But a good therapist can be a HUGE positive changing factor… as well as the whacko! Most people do not look at Dr or therapist as “average “ or “normal “ they put them on a pedestal and assume they will be what is expected!
More people need to understand that they are just like friends… you meet them and like them… get to know them… and might change your mind! Because you discover something about them that dowjive with you.
All relationships need a little time and some “reservations “ before we can trust them with extremely important information!
When we treat these people like people and stop giving them more room than we do to the new friends in our life … well, I think more would not just say therapy is BS BECAUSE “therapist are wackos” or “I hate doctors” (I’ll admit that has been me even recently “
Just saying sometimes we could really use a GOOD therapist and or doctor and it sucks that we struggle because there are well. Wackos out there😊
@@Soibottleditup People need what is right for them. For some people that isn't therapy. In my case I did the therapy I needed after the wacko was gone. It's a bit presumptuous to say every one needs therapy. People are individuals. It's not one size fits all.
@@Soibottleditup Also the simple fact is that some therapists exploit their power. Especially if they are narcs.
@@HJustme855 don’t believe everyone needs therapy..would never presume to say everyone needs or should .. anything!
But that’s just me… I don’t believe in making assumptions that my opinion is more important than someone else’s… I’m ok with my knowing what’s good for me
… never assuming my opinion or r experience is something everyone should agree to..
People with Complex PTSD especially ones raised with a narcissistic parent(s) have one heck of time dealing with narcissistic partners. It’s a crazy pants life! Living life always waiting for the other shoe to drop 😳
The “pick your battles.” Advice definitely turned me into a doormat.
I was just thinking about this last night. I have always been a proponent of counseling and it has helped me grow and learn so much about myself. But it just hit me that what sent me to counseling the majority of the time was the confusion of my marriages. 😳 I was with my first husband 22yrs and my second for 15yrs and I had never heard of narcissism until a few years ago. It made so much sense that I was dealing with that. 😢❤️🙏 But I am happily single and have love and peace in my home.
Oh yes I couldn't agree more. There's nothing that worse than somebody who 'plays psychogist' with a relationship they don't understand and where what they advising doesn't fit.
Thank you for saying this. It’s like when you’re divorcing the narcissist and people start advising you to try couples counseling.
@jayeharrison4533 👍I understand. Getting the wrong help and advice is worse than no help. The right advice about how to get the right help is what's needed. Keep strong 💪🙌
Biggest mistake I ever made was going to a marriage counselor. All she did was sell me further down the river.@@jayeharrison4533
And when you confront them online - they make false complaint to you tube and then I receive warning that I am spreading hate content comments.
@ranc1977 I've received online bullying at the hands of my narc and his enablers. Online platforms support them too often and the targeting can be relentless. It's still going on now so I do understand.
So glad you talk about this!
I tried it all and learned that I'm not good enough/not worth it. I kept trying until I tried to end my life.
I'm at a much better place right now. Divorce 2022 and healing!
Thank you so much for all your help!
Greetings from Austria! 💜 💜💜💜💜
OMG how true. I read multiple relationship help books, personal growth for myself, techniques to love right etc etc etc, until I realized there are TWO parties involved. Thank You Dr. Ramani 🙏it took me 30 years to find you ❤
There's two wires in the narcissist's brain that shouldn't be touching. That explains their behavior and there is nothing you can do, even Dr. Ramani can't pop their hood and give them a tune up. 😅😂🤣
I cannot be the only person picturing Batty from Fern Gully here… 😂
Frickin’ CLASSIC!!!
Years ago in my decades long marriage to a narcissist, our therapist taught me to place my back against a wall, seated, and make a "container" for my then husband when he raged. Him seated, his back to my chest and my arms to be around him he would shake and tremble and complain and rage. Now I know it was abusive. It fed the narcissist a supply of me, my love and kindness. So very very dysfunctional and I later learned and witnessed how he was astute at turning this on and off. Sick. I cradled him to feel safe and be heard and he played me and the therapist like a fiddle.
This really resonates with me after a long marriage of 40 years. Could just never believe that it wasn't something that I could fix. Wish that I knew then what I know now!
Self-help advice often falls short for those in narcissistic relationships as it may overlook the unique dynamics of manipulation and emotional abuse. Narcissists undermine self-esteem, making it challenging to implement empowering strategies. The complex power imbalances and psychological tactics employed by narcissists require specialized support beyond general self-help guidance. Effective intervention often involves professional assistance and understanding the nuances of narcissistic behavior.
So true!
I love this video. Your information on narcissism and how to deal with. It has enlightened me to a point where I am happy for the first time in my life. I’m 75 years old. And I can’t thank you enough.❤
I feel good for you gold man keep it up and God bless you and youre family.take care and all the luck you can get i pray for that.
I had a friend who was toxically positive. HAD a friend. Discussing anything with her was brutal, trying to get me to accept another narcissistic relationship I wanted to leave. So, I left both the relationship and the friendship. I am at peace over all of it. Ridiculous.
For many years we have heard about looking within, being nice and good, and that our thoughts cause things to happen, that we neglected ourselves in how others treat us. There is nothing wrong with my energy. And I see that we need to pay attention to what we think and how we feel. Some relationships need to be left behind us. Period.
I never like to encourage the culture of suing and medical malpractice because it adds to the cost for all of us. However, I believe the jury is in, and the knowledge is prevalent regarding the effects toxic people have on others, especially in a relationship. For 27 years, I attended marriage counseling off and on, trying to fix my relationship with a narcissistic husband. I was given so much input to try harder, be the instigator of goodness, stand by my man😂 etc, and it cost thousands of dollars. It further damaged my mental health by making me feel I was the problem, plus it encouraged me to hang in there and try to mend a toxic relationship.
At one time in the dark ages of medical history, leeches were used to bleed people out to "cure" them. The mental health equivalent is therapy that fails to take into account the reality and effect of narcissism on family members. Maybe if mental health realized this for what it is, malpractice, outcomes would improve for patients.
So spot on!
Attempts at conventional self-help results in the shouting narcissist's obstinacy: "I AIN'T changin' for nobody!", "You CAN'T tell me what to do!", "You can't STOP me from doing anything!"
In a "battle of wills": It's nearly-impossible to lead that (narcissistic, bucking) horse to water, let alone, I dare anyone, to try to "make it drink it!"
"Listen, you cannot look within yourself until you are educated about what is also outside of you, so you can make an informed decision. The positivity folks leave that rather important bit out "
Me giving him the benefit of doubt was the worst 😢
I love you your the best therapist on you tube. You understand thank you for letting me feel I'm not crazy.everyday.......
Hi Dr Ramani, I just wanted you to say thank you so much for your recognition of NPD and validation. ive been the scapegoat all my life and realised im heavily SURROUNDED by narcissists. I dissociate more often on educating myself about npd and what actually happened in my childhood was so dark and sinister, but i come to your channel for relief and sanity because it feels like you’re the only sane person in my life and you inspire me to raise awareness ❤
My narcissist ex loved buying self-help books. Too bad he literally never opened them. He just liked to spend money so he could pretend he was working on himself!
Narcs use self help and psychiatry to learn how to harm people and how to justify and normalize their abuse. CBT doing amazing job in this by explaining us that toxic people do not really exist and that all our problems are caused by our cognitive distortions which we can easily remove through ABC method.
The term narcissist doesn't really exist.. Well, only in China and America. A " narcissist " is a psychopath, borderline, sociopath and every other cluster personality disorder. I highly recommend researching how Europe views personality disorders
For me, it is when is the next rage going to start 😢
My friend's wife has NPD. He's been with her for 10 years. He recently endured a very abusive event. I've been hearing about these incidents for the entire relationship and have witnessed many of them. I told him a few days ago that he is in a narcissistic abusive relationship. He got extremely anxious, upset at me, and then left. I don't know how much longer I can stay friends with him anymore. He said he'll never leave her. I can't continue to sit back and hear these stories. To witness someone I care about being abused. It's also heartbreaking to see how it's impacted his children.
Back for the daily Ramani shot. It keeps me from forgetting my goal is Radical Acceptance. Thank you, can't wait for my pre-ordered book.
Brilliant compilation. So many of us in this community are suffering from tested relationship advice that does not work in toxic relationships. Thank you so much for the level of detail you go into in your explanations. You are so good at this, Dr. Ramani.
My narcissist is my adult daughter who 'punishes' me by withholding my only grandchildren from me. They are my only family so it's very painful. I tried everything for decades: therapy, self help, even Al-anon - because I wanted to have a relationship with my grandkids. I finally decided to walk away - and just process through the feelings of guilt, grief, my powerlessness in this situation - which tooks months. I'm now on the other side. I feel stronger. I'm 63 and I just couldn't take the stress anymore. After decades of wrangling with my daughter - I'm finally free of that trauma bond which I found was generational. Thanks for the public service of these videos.
I wish I knew any of this when leaving the narc family & marriage. It feels so naive & shameful as an adult in my 20’s & early thirties. I followed self help books, couples counseling, and bad advice from friends until I was physically in so much danger.
Your guidance is so helpful. Living with this for 36 years.awarnesse is life changing 😮
@@dawnmaestascowell6930I was about 36 years in it too. Both my parents are narcs, one is likely a sociopath. I had normalized everything at home and my husband’s narcissism was subdued by comparison. It took so much abuse escalation & therapy to believe the abuse was real and to get out. I’m still learning everyday about basic things.
The self help told me to basically stop giving attention, which actually enrages these narcs until they become violent.
I also had about 36 years in total bc both my parents are narcs, one is sociopathic. That gives me perspective. Now I’m narc free but it’s gutted me on every level.
DamN them All do what you feel is right out of self love deep down our got feeling still work that is why we are waking up and you choosed to leave , those who don't experience your pain their advice is not for you period.
Thank you, Dr Ramani. So many of your videos are full of valuable information and expressed in a easily digestible manner. This video is no exception and is needed by many for a simple validation of our experiences. This video along with your vids on Betrayal Trauma, explains all of the things that no matter how many times you may try to explain to others, they cannot understand.
Thank you Dr. Ramani.
You will never get the praise or feedback necessary to know how many people you have helped and how much you have helped. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the world.
As soon as I figured out that person was a narc, and it took a few months, I decided that evil had no place in my life. Not allowed to affect my mental health, my peace.
Same here... My favorite internal mantra is "Nope, not today (tomorrow or ever), Satan!" 😅
I'm a professional Psychic Medium, and I've given countless readings in which the advice was to accept that the other person is toxic/narcisstic, etc and get out as soon as realistically possible. My readings do not give false hope
Seriously, the best thing I learned to do was walk away. It seemed counter productive, but it is the only thing that works with someone who is NOT looking for resolution. Really sad how well it works to walk away when you feel like there's a way to solve the conflict. It's not about the conflict.
This is another great topic of life lessons learned 😅. I cannot count how many self help books I have read over 21 years of marriage, but the last two were the ones that made me realize I can't fix this.
One of them was called Love and Respect, and the other one was for spicing up up your love life.
I thought he would stop having affairs if I were better in bed. It suggested a two day weekend of doing nothing but giving your partner love, touch, affection and attention.
( I knew from experience he would not go for that and would make me miserable trying to get out of it.)
The Love and Respect book threw me into complete and utter hopelessness after trying those suggestions.
My marriage lasted 21 years with me thinking I was doing it wrong and trying every suggestion.
23:38 When a person's reality is being denied, or they are not being shown basic human empathy, or they're being invalidated, exactly how are they supposed to take responsibility and control?
It's like blaming someone's face for being in the way of another person's fist.
Friends and self help books mean well, but you don’t want them doing brain surgery on you.
Allmost everyday you upload new video,this Doc. is hardworking.thanks alot.20 days ++ learning from you min. 1 video a day and im 60% recover.God bless you and youre family.
So real! I share your frustration with this kind of advice. After some 20 years of avoiding my malignant narcissist mother, I'm so fed up with this kind of advice.
One hallmark of bad advice is that the advisor charges a lot of money for it. Charging for research, writing a book, or hourly attention is often necessary to pay the bills, but anyone who knows how to alleviate suffering knows it is not for sale, but shared with grace. Otherwise, the wealthy would all be happy and whole, instead of insatiable frantic hoarders of excess anything. Another hallmark of bad advice is avoiding the hard truth. You can do a lot more with a hard truth than with an easy lie. Is it almost February? I pre-ordered your new book months ago. Bravo to you for your courage and wisdom to illuminate the path of life with narcissists, and for doing it freely. Take good care of yourself, Dr. Ramani as you proceed down the road less taken. Love and lightning from Holland, namaste🌷🙏🌈
these past few months as I am being hunted by such a creature, (i can not swat in clarity a fly), you have been a straight talking embrace. I have felt affirmed and buttressed in my unnatural firmness after watching many, many of your freely offered videos on youtube, my goodness you are a special human. But also i see the residuals of eureka, your life so far, you share so well , Translation from respect to your quality videos gifted to all in these few months after finding your sharing's and becoming part of your audience. The strength of your truth and your annoyance cojoined , I love ya girl, well done
When I finally decided to speak on my experiences with my mother and older sister, I sought help from my college free counseling services.
The first time speaking with the counselor he listened and immediately said that I was the scapegoat. Upon ending our call he said to be careful of not adapting a victim mindset.
I really don’t like the shaming of people expressing their angst. I wasn’t sure how I was being a victim, I just wanted someone to tell me if I was crazy or not.
However, the counselor wanted me to believe if I changed, they, as in my mom and sister in return would change.
I was not convince. I have jumped through hoops, minimize my feelings, appeased them, tolerated their hurtful comments for 20+ years.
I have not scheduled another session since. I rather read and become knowledgeable about narcissism and learning how to set stronger boundaries and heal from the emotion strain these relationships has caused.
A good friend of mine pointed out that the ruminating desperation to understand what happened and why was the cart before the horse. His advice was to accept that until events can be reflected on dispassionately, it would be dwelling, and the lessons would escape me. Great advice, as one often caught up in my monkey brain, this gave me the insight to let things go until I could see clearly.
Yes, yes, yes! This is a distinction with a difference. Thank you for taking the time to share this😊
For me, it was my church that was the enabling system that kept me in it so long. ( 27 years). They did not have the discernment to see through my narcissist and really help me.
Even though it was my pastor that finally helped define that he was a narcissist and he supported our separation, ultimately I had to leave that church because I couldn’t trust them any longer.
My religion also harmed me by teaching that God hears and answers the prayers of the righteous. No amount of pleading for God’s help or trying to live worthily made anything better. The Biblical teaching to endure to the end and the belief that this life is only a test to earn a reward in eternity kept me trapped in an unhealthy relationship. My unanswered prayers left me feeling unloved and uncared for. I finally stopped waiting for a miracle and left the relationship. I’m so glad I didn’t waste the rest of my life waiting for a miracle that would never come!
Individual problems are not relationship problems, they are individual problems. Choose a loving, honest, transparent partner who admits their part and grows. Only accept healthy individuals into your inner world. Take your time getting to know a person slowly based on actions over time. Wishing you well! 💖
Disclaimers on advice articles is a very good idea. Psychology has kind of turned into a blind-faith cult of an industry. I’ve seen it be dangerous to friends.
Thank God many people have never experienced narcissistic abuse! Of course, how can they validate the person who has been abused by a narcissist?
So many of the toxically positivity and other negatives were deployed by the therapist that was supposed to be helping me with narcissistic abuse. And she would do all of that right before devaluing me and being classically narc.
Absolutely! What doesn’t help is that people misuse terms like narcissism so when it is genuinely used, people don’t believe you because “oh that term again.” It takes away from the dialogue around narcissism.
When I began watching you videos on Narcissism I was done with trying to fix myself (life long effort). I was just trying to understand the world we live in and the word narcissism was being thrown around a lot. What a rabbit hole! Turns out it explained so much of my past relationships. Thank you for this channel. ❤
I was also the worst toxic positivity, self-gaslighting person in these past relationships. Constantly trying to reframe their behavior because being a victim isn’t something I ever wanted to be.
Dr Ramani - I've been in Alcoholics Anonymous since 1986. I've always been pushed to reconcile and subjugate my needs for my adult narcissistic child in the program based on 12 Step language. I was encouraged to stay engaged with her and just 'use the steps' to manage the abuse. Wrong wrong wrong! I've had to reprogram myself and I lost some recovery friends who kept gaslighting me on this situation. Since a lot of narcissistic abuse survivors self-medicate on drugs or alcohol - many of them end up in recovery when their lives bottoms out and are often pushed to AA by the narcissist - and then they end up trapped into being gaslit on both ends. Always forced to look at 'my part' when insanity ensues IS insanity. God I wish you could address this thorny topic which nobody wants to address.
Thank you for pointing out that "self-care" can be more problematic than helpful. I've been working out hw friends can support my self-care without inadvertently shaming me.
WHOA. I've always been a self-help girlie and I've been beating myself up why I always end up in square one, no matter how much self-will I muster up and start doing things. Thank you for this vid. I'm only 1 second in, but the title alone took away so much burden from myself. I'll continue watching now. 😇
I feel this episode is so relevant to the harm that can be caused by therapists who don't' consider the dynamics of people with personality disorders - especially in couples therapy. I visited a couples therapist who follows and ascribes to the guidelines of Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) based on the book Hold Me Tight. EFT is all the rage in couples therapy today. Try as we did (or didn't) - things never really improved. My advice to anyone in couples therapy who is not experiencing relationship improvements after 6 months is to become EDUCATED ABOUT NARCISSISM - especially covert passive aggressive narcissism - to explore whether this could be the source of you and your partners/troubles issues. Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissism seems to be something that slips by the couples therapists and therapists in general. For the people pleasers of the world , becoming educated about NPD this could change the trajectory of your life.
My narc ex had boxes of self-help books and used them as weapons on all her exes and baby daddies.
I have a lot against the self help industry in general it being only for neurotypicals , people who haven’t been abuses and generally for wealthy people not really for those who struggle. Not to mention the about of grifting and people who probably are narcissists themselves in that field ( if you call it that). But at the end of the day i think we can give people pointers on how to better themselves but it isnt linear and at the end of the day self help people need to point out these methods worked for them but they may not be for everyone
Yes, the last few years of our 25 year marriage I totally went into toxic positivity land. It ate me alive.
The expression "It takes two to fight" is very abusive when thrown at victims of narcissist abusers. People blame women for staying with batterers and ultimately getting beaten to death but when they reach out for help they are blamed for not doing enough to keep their abuser happy.
When my now ex boyfriend finally did get physically violent I didn't bother reporting him as I knew that if I showed people the bruise he would probably take me to court claiming that it was self defense even though it clearly wasn't. Whatever happened it would have been my fault.
I went through the evil court system before with my abusive ex father and they blamed me instead of him even though I was under nine years old and witnesses agreed he was abusive to me.
I don't want to go through that with any boyfriend. So when I was hit I waited patiently and left and refused to come back. Then I tried to breakup. He didn't want to so I went through couples therapy with him and acted like I was suffering from a mental version of obcessive compulsive disorder until he couldn't handle it and finally agreed to break up. At least I don't have to go through a cage fight with my ex boyfriend as I convinced him I was too exhausting and more trouble than I'm worth! If you want the narcissist to leave you alone you must convince them to dump you. The best way I found is verbally arguing and obcessing over nothing like the Rainman. These abusers do get tired quickly. Once they dump you thank a higher power and go no contact.
Hugs to all survivors of narcissistic abuse.
Real love is like a favourite piece of clothing; it fits so well, it's comfortable and you hardly notice it.
Yes, if I stop and just listen, he says I'm being the victim, and it is me that manipulates all situations.
I've been hollering about toxic positivity since my 1st massive illness over 2 decades ago. It's rampant in cancer support communities. It is so damaging.
Of topic, but I just want to tell you that I just got hooverd by my ex after two years of no contact and thanks to all these videos I knew exactly why he called and never even considerd buying in to his bullshit!
Thanks for sharing your experience - I never thought that after two years of no contact NC would try hoovering. It is good to be prepared and be alert. Good luck! ❤
@@kayumari486 Thank you! Yeah, it's always good to be prepared. And when you can se patterns it almost become comically... 😉😇
From my experience. They use your love against you.
When that love is finally exhausted they lose control over you.
If for whatever reason you decide to stay, from that point onward you can take back control.
Hobbies, education, career training, friendship's and eventually escape plans.
Life takes on meaning again after years / decades of being lost to yourself.
You experience a spiritual awakening so profound that you won't even recognise yourself.
A deep sensation of calm positive self belief descends upon you.
I so want this, am in a very dark low place today, please pray for me
I remember the attempted date night fix. After the 2nd one, I recall, after 2 hours of non-stop criticism, calmly saying that this wasn't working for me and that I had no desire to continue doing these 'belittle my spouse' pretend dates and that something needed to change. Last date night that we did together, although not her last date, lol. The cheating escalated then, even to the point of taking her then boyfriend to a company xmas party, presenting him as me. Classic.
Toxic positivity hits home. I actually feel more shame coming from the smiling people at church quoting scriptures about rejoicing and having the joy of the Lord as their strength, reminding me to smile around them (proving I am in the faith), than I do when the "Christian" Narcs in my home rage at me for lying about how I say I am carrying them by paying all the bills while they bread-crumb me with handfuls of coins a couple times a year.
Self help to narcissistic abuse is like anti poison to poison, it doesn't work when the poison is still coming. We have to get away from the cause before we can see a healthy affect.
Narcs stomp on gratitude and kindness. They destroy. None of this stuff works with narcs.
I bought and read Dr Laura's book on the proper care and feeding of husbands but her disclaimer that stated it was not applicable for certain situations (i.e. abuse) went right over my head because I didn't know he was a narcissist and I certainly did not think I was being 'abused' because he never hit me. SMH
This is true l learnt the hard way.
I can't tell you how much you have helped me. 💕💕
Just the validation alone has been such a healing part. Thank you for being such an insightful and encouraging mentor. May you be blessed abundantly.🙏🙏🙏
Take-aways that I have needed to hear:
Nothing is ever enough for the narcissist.
Do not feel guilty for self-care, or for not being able to do it.
We cannot change other people regardless of how "positive" we are.
Many counselors believe both partners are "healthy" and that if we just "look within ourselves and be accountable" things will change. THAT is not applicable with narcissistic abuse.
Life it what it is - look at it in reality and make your moves accordingly. YOU are worth it.
💕💕💕
My friend recommended the love languages book to me. I bought it and he agreed he would also read it. So, I read it first. Then, when it was his time to read it, he read a few pages, then he stopped reading. He said he already knew about all of this, but of course, he didn't change. It wasn't a waste of time for me to read the book, though. My current partner and I are both physical touch people, and it is really wonderful.
I have to delight in the delicious irony of the segment on manifesting and personal responsibility being interrupted by an ad for… a manifesting program touting that he alone has the secret to manifesting properly. 😂
Bad therapists are so damaging. Marriage counselors who assume both parties are going to do the work and then blame the person who IS doing the work when they get frustrated, therapists who claim to be trauma trained who ignore every discussion of abusive behavior and tell the victim that they are responsible for their emotions/anxiety/panic attacks… these people just compound the ptsd.
We all need more videos on how to advise people stuck in these relationships, burned-out, exhausted, still willing to sacrifice their health, their homes, their kids in order to fix an impossible relationship... Only their new sense of hopelessness is the first possible opening for them to hear some real facts and real solutions to their future. Not ideal, but better than what they are enduring.