What is Coercive Control? With Dr. Christine Cocchiola | Season 2; Ep 17
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2023
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Dr. Christine Cocchiola, a trained therapist and social worker specializing in abusive relationships and coercive control, reveals it took decades for her to realize she was trapped in a toxic, controlling and abusive marriage for nearly 30 years.
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Guest Bio:
Dr. Christine M. Cocchiola, DSW, LCSW is a Coercive Control Educator, Researcher & Survivor. She is a college professor teaching social work for the last 20 years and a social justice advocate for a local domestic violence agency, since the age of 19. Her expertise is in the areas of coercive control and the traumatic experiences of adult and child victims, diligently supporting these vulnerable populations. Dr. C., a Founding Member of the International Coercive Control Conference and a Board Member of the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, has supported codifying coercive control, writing numerous policy briefs supporting these efforts.
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Instagram - @dr.cocchiola_coercivecontrol
Twitter - @coercivecontrol
This podcast should not be used as a substitute for medical or mental health advice. Individuals are advised to seek independent medical advice, counseling, and/or therapy from a healthcare professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issue, or health inquiry, including matters discussed on this podcast.
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Narcissists are everywhere and these days it seems like everyone has at least one in their lives! Dr. Ramani Durvasula, a licensed clinical psychologist, will help you spot red flags and heal from the narcissist in your life. Every Thursday, we will hear first-hand accounts from people who know this territory the best, the survivors.
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It is still hard for me to call my marriage abusive because I was never hit. It was the insidious covert Narc manipulations that nearly destroyed me after 19 years of being with him. So thankful for you Dr Ramani. You helped me learn what was really happening to me & to have the courage to finally leave.
It keeps so many people trapped. Good for you leaving!
Mental abuse stays forever , and it’s most likely we had a abusive parent .. when my stepfather beat me w the belt , I’d say I’d rather have that than hear his rage for hours .. sadly that was my thinking as a child .
It’s never the isolated incident it’s the patterns , the mockery , and the minimisation of your feelings , it’s so isolating because it’s never overt , if you raise it with a friend or family it feels trivial , and even to your self . I know I was there for 30 years before I left.
It’s abuse!! Better yet you were kind you were living with a ConMan Mesa better way to describe it, and it caused tremendous mental abuse.
Me too ❤ 14 years in coercive insidious Hell. 😢
I recorded him berating me with my cell phone. It was about 45 minutes of nasty verbal abuse. I played it back to myself every time I thought of answering a message or going back. Worked well for me.
Submit it to police
@@kaceykacey172 It's not a crime. Anyway, he found another victim, so I'm home free.
@@joannebutzerin6448should be a Crime!
Intermittent reinforcement it's like feeding a slot machine, I keep feeding it in the hope I will get the reward. Cohesive control pay back making me do something to pay me back. Trauma bonding is the same old bad stuff he denys so I give him the benefit of the doubt.
She wanted to believe he was a good person. Her husband was thin skinned and has an ott reaction.
Cohesive controller wants to diminish the other people, they have to dominate it is the foundation of oppression.
Please be careful; don't internalize the lies when you replay the abusive message
We don't miss the signs; we provide rational explanations for them.
You are so right about that.
Preach
I was enslaved for 33 years but 10 years ago I decided to make a plan. Sell our house, move out of state, find my own place, then tell him it’s over. In between he got cancer and passed away last year. During his last 4 months I took care of him in hospice, he thought it was a good idea to “come clean” about his wh0re in another city. It was a very painful experience to break the trauma bonds, grieve my marriage and then grieve the death(although I also felt relief), then clean up the mess he left behind. A very tough year, BUT, I’m here to tell you things get soooo much better! I love being on my own, in control of everything and not being in a constant toxic environment. Freedom is incredible!!!
Ding ding the witch is dead. Have a wonderful life! You deserve it!
❤
😢❤️
Wow-very impressive. Im so proud of you.
You are so brave. I'm glad you have your freedom back!
Sad thing is there is all kinds of help for women and their children if there is physical abuse but absolutely nothing for those suffering from the psychological abuse from the coercive control of a narcissist. I have been there.
Me too. It is isolating and my husband teamed up with the kids and turned them against me. My kids are now 28 & 31 and I am now beginning to have a normal relationship with them. I am still married to my husband of 37 yrs but I know now why he works so hard to alienate everyone from me. He financially controls me and tells me I have no value. I have learned not to listen because he is just an insecure narc. I have value!
@@yorkiemom7858do you plan on staying with him?
Two years ago my daughter was told by her psychiatrist that she needed to go to intensive outpatient treatment five days a week for at least a month. There is absolutely nothing in my location for her to go to!
@nancycaracci4707 I have checked myself into the pych unit just for a break. My kids went to their friends'. IOP in rural areas tend to be a joke! Especially if you are being forced to go for no better reason than some arsehat is making crap up. Gentle hugs for you and your daughter!
Very true. No one would help me. I’d have tons of help if I would have lied and said he hit me. I just couldn’t lie.
OMG! You just explained every ruined holiday, vacation, family barbecue, etc. I felt my childhood was the only with every single special occasion ruined to varying degrees. 50 years later, I still dread the lead up to all holidays, events, and special occasions. Thanks for shedding light on this.
My mother ruined every holiday I swear
My narcissistic husband ruined so many holidays for my kids and I. Now I understand why!
There was always someone in my family growing up that ruined the Holiday. I still get childhood ptsd triggers on Holidays and I am 63. It is an anxiety within that something will go wrong.
I can relate. Age 59 and I'm still dreading Holidays
Honestly!!! What about biryhdays?
My narc mom never remembered mine my whole adult life...well once, but the wrong day.
Oh my goodness! Christine's story is exactly my story!! I grew up Catholic, my now husband, a Covert narcissist, told his Mom and friends that "One day, I'll marry Jennifer". He was so charming and sweet with big dimples and that apple pie face that everyone believed he was such a great guy with a big heart. He bent over backwards to impress me and my parents.
The addiction to porn which he PROMISED to get help with but never did. The more good days than bad which in of itself gas lights you. It makes you believe that he is indeed a good guy and I'm over reacting.
The kids....he never disciplined them. Never went to school functions. I did all the dirty work. He did the fun stuff. He wanted them to like him while i had to discipline them when they misbehaved. If they were disrespecting me, he sat there and ignored it happened. He just let them treat me like that.
Your experiences are so familiar to mine. Thank you for sharing. 😊
My story too! Everything she said is my life to a T! The therapists can be conned by these people!
Are you born again? Have you turned your heart to Jesus?
wow my ex said he would try and stop Drinking. Then he would say he wasn't when he clearly was. xx
They usually end up not respecting them later.
I didn't raise kids with mine, they were older, but other than paying for stuff, he wasn't involved. So yes, the minimum. As a result, the only time they show up is when they want something. And the more independent they become as adults, the less they show up.
In coercive control, your abuser abuses you and then is also your savior during the good times (which get shorter and shorter over time). This back and forth causes the confusion also. Even after separation-especially with financial abuse
@forbesgrl707 you nailed it! Exactly! I can relate to all that you stated to s T!
This!!! Exactly 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
I used to say to myself, "OMG, no one can see this horrible abuse unless the bruises and cuts are on the outside. And no one will listen long enough to see the pattern." That was when I knew I was alone. I needed to get out ASAP and suffer whatever I had to until he's gone. Now, still, 17 years later I find myself reality checking.
You are a survivor and you are brave. Never go back. ❤
God will help you to heal from the abuse I am now healing from physical and mental abuse people don't realize that toxic words can kill your body you can't see the scars that is why people don't think a person can be abuse I have lived through this I am now in the healing process thanks to Jesus Christ being in my life I now know I must love myself never be a victim by not moving forward sign Cynthia Smith
Obviously, all these narcissists tend to refer to the healthy person as THE CRAZY ONE and badmouth them to others, I have heard this many times. Now we know that this is the quintessence of the narcissistic character.
They have absolutely no respect for anyone but themselves. My husband still pits the kids against me and they are 28 and 31. This just happened over July 4th. I am labeled this crazy one because I have talked with them about getting a divorce
This is one of the main things that a person has to be careful of because finally You'll have enough and then people will see you screaming and hollering. And since We are so embarrassed and keep it to ourselves most of the time, others will say o k, he's right, she is crazy.
Creating flying monkeys, turn all slowly away from you, he prob will read this later. As monitors All! Wish his soul the best. And hope this is more known and help especially!
Brains are rewired as if an addict. Sadly. And control of power, n all, it's all so familiar
@@susannec659 Yes, the abused person finally reacts and they seem like the out of control one.
This was my life! Always always always fights before vacations. He would stay out late or not come home the day before we would be leaving on family vacations. He was not happy unless I was unhappy. Eggshells, punishments, silent treatments...on and on and on.
Me too 😢 Anything I wanted to do or anything that was important to _me,_ he'd shit on it with his rage....
I am sorry! 😢 My mother is like that.
It’s amazing how predictable ppl with NPD are. @whalesshark, I agree with your list eggshells, never ending punishment, silent treatments, push pull and ultimately ghost! After 38 years I filed for divorce. I’m out, no contact free!
I couldve written this .
I can’t believe that after nearly 30 years (I’m out finally!) someone is literally telling me my real story!!!! I’m sorry you went through this-I can’t believe this happened even though I lived it
Me too. Every day.
50 years for me of hell...6 yrs free. Loving life now.
Congrats! What an incredible feat! I am out, just over a year. Have never looked back but am still unpacking and detangling the thought processes and self-worth challenges that this cunning and treacherous conditioning creates. Be well ma dear 🌺
I’m finding out after all these years that, even though I didn’t have a name for it, this is exactly, to the tee, what I’ve dealt in my relationship for 25 plus years. It’s crazy making. She never hit me physically, but sometimes I wish she had instead of the confusion of manipulation in everything!
@@rdsimmons5887 I’m sorry you’ve endured this for so very long. 1) Indeed. So many of us don’t have a name or definitive grasp of the horrendous mistreatment we experience. I guess that is a large component of such abuse. We’re forever at attention, on the alert and treading water, awaiting the next onslaught. So we don’t get a skerrick of a chance to find our feet and gain some clarity.
2) Sadly your take on wishing the abuse left a physical mark and tangible evidence of what years of emotional abuse did not, is a conclusion that we both and so many others have also pondered.
Wishing you strength and courage.
OMG!!
I couldn't understand why my husband wanted me to keep working.
He was so needy and wanted to have me so much of the time, he would message me while I was at work wanting me to regulate him.
It felt like he was sabotaging me working, but when I talked about quitting, he said, "Keep working - you love your job."
I was the only one working.
I paid for the majority of our wedding and honeymoon.
The only reason he paid for anything was because I put my foot down about it, and I guess he was still working on winning me.
I didn't realise that this was a form of financial abuse.
But thanks to this conversation, I now understand what was happening!
My work did 2 jobs: kept me busy and too tired to think straight about the relationship, especially with him messaging me all the time; created a financially better existence for him.
I was working and cooking all the meals, doing all the grocery shopping and meal planning, driving 40 minutes each way to get our fresh produce.
I was soooo exhausted.
That’s a great comment. I’ve noticed more than ever women being the significant bread winner. I would say half of the couples I know. My husband tried very hard to get me to work full time but I refused because I was already doing everything. More money is not a temptation for me-peace and sanity is my goal.
That my 27 years of marriage😢
Our daughter told me 2 years after I left my now-ex, once the divorce was final, that he had started badmouthing me to her when she was a toddler, and continued all her life up to then. Among other things, he told her I was "neurotic" and that she did not need to listen to me. I played into his narrative unwittingly, by being the parent who tried to give loving limits and guidance, and by presenting a united front with him to her, making it easier for her to see me as The Bad One. It never occurred to me that he could do something so evil. After we agreed to separate and before we sold the house, he told me he was going to get a gun and teach our daughter to shoot. She did not tell me at the time, but he tried to buy her a gun as soon as we separated. She went no contact with him after that, and still has not spoken to him 6 years later. He stalked her for years, until we moved out of the area. The harm he did to her, neglecting her needs, and using her to harm me, is immeasurable and sickening. Thank you for doing this show.
Narcissists and guns are potentially a terrifying combination.
@@SamStone1964 Indeed. I believe that terrorism was the point of saying and doing what he did.
I was called a neurotic mess today bc I refused to have yet another conversation about why I'm unhappy in the relationship (you know, bc they never change so what's the point?).
This is sick. My mom did the same thing to me in my siblings convinced us that dad was the problem. None of us still have a relationship with him other than realizing mom was the problem.
@@justint.kennerly5780 I'm sorry hon. I hope you can find some peace, and if it is what you want, a relationship with your alienated parent.
This hits home for me. There are so many similarities to my story. Narcissists ridicule you in front of your kids from a very early age, but they can really alienate your kids from you when they are in high school. They counter-parent them instead of co-parenting them at that time because they know kids are more defiant in the adolescent phase. When you try to make the kids accountable for doing their homework or their chores, they overrule you and tell them that they don't have to do it. They don't care about making the kids better and responsible. They only care about are making alliances with them against you.
True!
Well put. I never realized that is exactly what was happening at our house. Every step I made to help our daughter succeed in school he was right there countering me. It was ridiculous to say the least.
Oh so T R U E,
Exactly what happened. He told my daughter she didn't have to help out with housework. She refused to do anything, or say she would but not do it. One of many many things he did, that I know of. There's a lot more that I don't. He turned everybody against me. I had to leave the whole family.
My story except that I am still stuck after 52 years.
My father did this exact thing to my mother. I caught him beating my mother up. Instead of owning up to beating her, he told me she was cheating on him. Mind you, his mistress used to call our house and keep my mother and I up all night while my father worked the night shift. I was seven. He then started to coercively controlling me. This is so my story as a child.
My heart goes out to you and your mother no one has the rights to put their hands on another human being I myself when through physical and mental abuse Jesus Christ in my life is helping me iam not a victim because I chose to move forward I must love myself before I can love someone else Sign Cynthia Smith I got to learn to trust
Me too. My father did this ruined my siblings lives and my life. Says he feels zero regrets or guilt over his actions. We are still trying to run away and I’m 38!! The financial abuse has been so bad and recessions etc I could never completely get away. Pray for our safe departure soon! 🙏🏽
I had a female psychiatrist tell me " you had a child with him and now you have 2 of them " why did you have a child ? I felt like I was being shamed . I didn't go back to this so psychiatrist . Hello , I didn't know what he was . I want to say this video helps me a lot .
THIS!! This is the best interview yet. Her explanation of coercive control being the umbrella was brilliant.
Thank you - such a nuanced abuse and how much it compromises is.
Any woman he's involved with for any length of time is watching this and they are getting validated for everything he's putting them through.
Fall in love with yourself, treat yourself , take the time to heal . Nothing wrong with being single for the mean time. Not rushing into any situation. What you were giving to the difficult person , give it to yourself. You are lovable , you are enough, validate yourself , God loves you more than you think. Be well, treat yourself, you deserve the best!🌹🌹🌹🌹❣️💝💝
Awesome wisdom. Thank you for sharing. I really needed your message today!!!
You are right on healing must take place before moving on Jesus Christ in my life is showing me to love myself I am not a victim because I chose to move forward these toxic people are led by a evil spirit it's ok to be by myself there is nothing like peace sign Cynthia Smith
They always get worse as they get older. They do not get better. Get out as soon as you can. Go NO Contact and never look back. This is the only way.
With the exception of having children, I've experienced the exact same abuse...right down to the bullets and I have the pictures still on my phone so I don't forget...Nobody should ever have to be subject to this kind of treatment but my abuse only lasted 2 and a half years... After a year and a half I discovered Dr Ramani and realized what was going on... I thank God for her
And just 2 years with a narc .. it’s literally like dog years .. 7/1 for real ppl I know I’ve discovered recently that I’m married too a narc for 40 yrs .. that is 40 dog yrs 😵💫 and I thought it was bipolar .. silly 🙃 me
@@victoriavitoroulis3273 I thought maybe my husband was bipolar.... I was looking for excuses for his behavior.... Literally, trying to excuse his treatment of me
@@aprilwilcox5065I thought it was high functioning autism (which he was diagnosed with)...but regardless, he still had all the traights fir toxic narcissist stuff anyhow!!
I remember one Easter holiday, my oldest daughter came to me and asked, “why does Daddy always ruin holidays?”. All I could tell her was “I don’t know.”, because at the time, I didn’t know why.
Some kids see straight through this nonsense and sadly, it can put them in grave danger.
Four weeks before our wedding, my now husband made a suicide attempt because I was in need of some breathing space and felt suffocated.
He didn't like it and tried to force me into a conversation with him.
When I held my ground, he went home and took an overdoes and drank an entire bottle of whiskey.
He then contacted someone else who messaged me.
I was never given time to process this event and when he came out of hospital he pretended like it never happened.
When I ended up breaking down and exploding about it, he said he wanted to make it easier for me and that's why he acted like it was no big deal.
Looking back, it's so easy to see all the narcissistic abuse and the development of a trauma bond.
But inside of it, it was impossible to see clearly.
The manipulation of my emotional state so thorough and intense!!
Every time I tried to gain some space by myself, he would bombard me with insecurities and demand that I coddle him.
The depersonalisation is harder for me to face.
And the intense objectification of me is too painful for now.
He would regularly tell me that I was more than an object to him.
He also talked about wanting to fully own me - seeing anal sex (a hard no for me) as the ultimate act of ownership of me, saying he just wanted it once.
I'm scared to think what would have happened if I had stayed with him.
I think he would have forced that act on me.
He always painted himself as the victim and had the most horrific stories about his ex emasculating him.
But now I doubt that it is true.
I'm messed up from the little abuse I did endure.
I can't imagine years or decades of this sort of treatment, let alone the escalation of it.
And it escalated so quickly in our dynamic that it's terrifying.
Thank u for sharing. This is so relatable. Also, the conditioning..they tell you about their past so that u prove to them that you would never do that to them. More control and manipulation....giving sob stories which were probably fables.
Narcs always act like their exes are terrible and theyre victims. They play with our empathy. Same with friends. My ex friend always complained on how no one understood her, on how people cut her off. I found out why the hard way. She has no empathy, is very toxic just like my ex fiancé who also told me a couple of sob stories. He mistreated me psychologically. So glad i didnt marry him.
My mother was a vulnerable narcissist, and I remember clearly how much abuse I suffered in childhood and high school. On one particular week she was yelling and screaming and criticizing and judging and ignoring me all at various times like she had always done, but this week was BAD. And I just couldn’t take it anymore. I packed a bag to leave home, but the night before I was to leave home without her knowledge, she was just so loving and kind all of a sudden….that evening she sat down with my younger brother and me and was funny and hugging us…and I almost didn’t leave because I almost got sucked back in. But in the end, I just knew what she was really like (even though it makes you feel like you’re crazy) and I called my friends and I did leave. I ran away at age 16 for three days…left the state with friends. Told no one. Although she called the police, she didn’t have me arrested and she didn’t make a big deal about it because she was afraid it would look bad for the family and her father. I had to come back home because the people I was with wanted to come back home, and I had no money. So what else could I do. She did not punish me, but she never spoke to me much again for the rest of my life except she was always critical and judgmental of me but behind closed doors with other people behind my back. She was my abusive mother. And I both loved and hated her and that caused me a lifetime of pain and trauma.
Sorry you had to live through that. Hope you can heal and find happiness.
Been there. Done that. Mine passed away but the trauma goes on. For several years I was afraid to die for fear I'd have to see her again.
I really feel for you.
I'm so sorry to hear about the ups and downs with your mom. It's great that you are tuning in and learning how to take care of and protect yourself. I wish you all the very best! With hugs & prayers!🤗
My mother is exactly the same
Heckling in the midst of a 'panic attack' to manipulate the situation is a good example of coercive control especially if the recipient can't see through the drama.
This spoke to me more than any video I’ve watched on narcissism and/or control. My soon to be ex-husband stole and hid my anxiety medication and helped me look for it, took my car keys from me numerous times, turned the hot water off so I couldn’t shower, shut the electric off when I would ignore his tantrums, take the internet cords away so I couldn’t work and couldn’t speak to my family, etc. The control and manipulation is enough to kill you from the inside. I have been terrified of my husband 3 out of the 4 years we’ve been married. I’ve taken the first step and left a week ago. It’s hard, it’s so emotional, but I’m done. I have to keep telling myself, “I’m done. Never again”
I hope you’re doing better now and free. ❤
Oh. So relatable. As soon as I react strongly he immediately reverted back to a very nice person.... Intermittent reinforcement?
This is my story and it’s been 7 years since I left. I still can’t tell it properly without crying. Our youngest is nonverbal special needs. He wants nothing to do with her as she’s a “less than perfect”reflection of him. My oldest son was the scapegoat and has anxiety that’s off the charts (according to his therapist). I can’t stop the rumination of this and how the f*%k this happened to me. I was 22 when I met him and was overseas at the time, away from family and friends. Also a musician - ugggh. I’ll forever be so sad for my kids that I didn’t choose better and sad for the naive young girl in me with a heart full of love to give that was conned out of the most precious things in life - healthy children and time that we’ll never get back.
🫂😿💙 I'm so sorry for your pain.
God can redeem "the years the locusts have eaten". There is always hope in Jesus. I'm a living testament to the faithfulness of God to heal and restore.
Indescribably valuable. Powerfully summed up with, " it's more than missing the signs, more like your nervous system is taking you on a bit of a ride that is almost under the level of consciousness" - Dr Romani, the healing master...❤
Bless you women for telling this story.. These same things happened to me as I was too trusting and now I am separated after enduring 33 years of this type of abuse..
Praying that my relationship with my children to be restored..
Hearing Christine’s story transports me right back to my narcissist, and my experience was literally 10 times less than Christine’s. My heart goes out to her.
This made me realize all of the little small controlling things that my ex did on a daily basis that I didn't realize were happening. Even just taking forever to get ready, even though I managed to do my hair, makeup, shower, take care of the house....somehow he needs more time.
I know this behavior very well. Always making everything revolve around themselves at your expense… so manipulative and exhausting.
They have to make a late entrance to remain the center of attention.
Even on my wedding day!
This is so similar to my story.
Not wanting to disappoint ✔️
Financial abuse ✔️
Mocking ✔️
Threats to end his life ✔️
Every holiday, birthday, or other big event ruined ✔️
Telling our child awful things about me ✔️
Being the fun parent ✔️
Post separation abuse with thousands of messages ✔️
I had no idea any of this was abuse till after I left. I also feel the need to be a therapist for my child and am definitely going to look into her program.
I didn't realize until after I left either. I was researching narcissism for his mom but not him. Holy crap.
Same with me…. 🙁
I’m finally out of a 17 year divorce with a narcissist or abusive person
@@starlingswallow Hugs ♥️
💙💯🙋i thought i was the only one to marry a devil! I am sad so many have lived this nightmare.😿
This is the most difficult video I've seen in your series because it describes how I lost my children. For 30 years after my split from my family, I was kicked out for the 6th time and finally chose not to come back. To do so meant suicide at that point. The ensuing flying monkeys and made it impossible for me to live close by so I had to start over in another town. My relationship with my children was one of me always apologizing for not being a good enough mother. I've never found healing between them and me only some sort of sad peace with myself. Thank you for sharing this. It is healing.
Heartbreaking. Also disturbing is that the Dr's ex is a school social worker.
It should not be disturbing. Many abusive types are psychologists even, doctors, etc
She's literally speaking of my life...only difference is she was smart enough to get out...30 years later and I'm still living this hell day to day. Don't know how to escape...
study concsiousness study self love and u will find your way out. Study trauma bond. Be Well.🎉
Tell yourself how much you are loved. Be kind to yourself. You are enough! Repeat keep repeating. You are worth it.❤
When you’re ready you will just get up and go
I found out about womens aid etc because I would have rater gave up my house than staying in it xx
💙😿🫂your life is precious and you are worthy of protection so You can be safe and live free from an abuser. Best wishes to you. I've been there too and hope you know that you are not alone. 🌻
I didn't get away from my narcissist husband until he died. I took he's mental, emotional, and spiritual abuse for 16 years. My husband has been gone 8.5 years, and I'm still not completely myself, I don't know if I ever will😢
I think healing is very individual. You go at your own speed. I'm praying for you.
It would be incredibly helpful for us if you could detail some of the things that your husband did to you. Thank you
I’ve JUST added some details, so you know you’re NOT crazy … I didn’t get either and I’m 56 have a Masters in Communications but now am a PT❤❤
OMG -EVERY SINGLE occurrence happened to me !! Seriously, from the Stag Party + 22+ years of marriage to the “big house” & keeping all my personal items !!
He wouldn’t let me be part of move out of marital home of 20+ years with kids.
My young adult kids ‘see it’ but he’s paying for all 3 college tuitions- so they have to placate! The post divorce abuse has been psychologically brutal .Wow .Thank You !!!
It’s so important that children have at least one parent or family member who protects them in the home. It’s not easy for a judge, teacher, lawyer, or police to take the role of counselor; they really haven’t been trained on trauma, and narcissistic abuse. Even many psychologists, and psychiatrists are not trained to understand those evil dynamics..
10:05 Betrayal blindness and covert/ vulnerable narcissism, 14:14, 17:30 Triangulation, 20:40 Financial abuse 24:48 Triangulation, diminishing and minimising behaviour and other abuses, 33:58 Power and Control Wheel, 43:20, 1:01:00, 1:10:00
I was the therapist in my family too. We would sit down every time he would rage and the kids would tell him how they felt about him but nothing would change. He admitted he was a narcissist but didn’t care. We were very aware what we were living with but there was things he hid. When my son stood up to him at 17 I said that is enough. They are old enough to know they do not like their father and don’t want to be in the home with him. I stayed due to finances, health problems, and I thought they were better with him than without, I was wrong. I told him all the time that I was leaving as soon as they finished college, that was my main goal. We started video taping our conversations in the last month too. He left 2 months ago and hasn’t spoken to them. He bad mouths us to anyone who will listen. Your show is now therapy for us and I am so incredibly grateful for you.
While my husband of 29 years is not at the extreme hers was, I deal with the almost constant confusion, manipulation, the quiet ways he gets our kids to think I’m the one with all the problems, and lies big and small (but almost daily).
I never know which way is up or down when we have a complication in life and we NEVER come to a conclusion or agreement in “arguments “. He either blows me off or mocks me when I bring something unpleasant up or confront him in anyway or sometimes even when I ask for clarification on something I’m confused about (he recently did that to me in front out his step mom and our kids, I was so glad she saw it).
Also, he NEVER has any problems with me. It’s weird. I’ve told him that if I didn’t try to see my own faults I’d think I was perfect as he NEVER confronts me with anything. In 29 years, NEVER!!! The only time he’ll say I’m doing something or not is when he’s really mad because I’ve either confronted him about something he’s done or not done.
It doesn’t matter how I present it; nicely, truthfully, humbly, aggressively, etc., his response is always the same,; I’m either over reacting or he has no response and he mocks me or doesn’t allow the argument to continue.
He’s great to be around as long as we have no stress or hardships, I love being around him when things are good( is this trauma bonding?)
But if a hardship is thrown at us or he causes one (which is the majority of our hardships) he turns into this MAJOR passive aggressive jerk because I either call him out on it or he doesn’t want to tackle the problem and I do.
He’s very good at ignoring our problems with money (which he causes) our marriage, our children, until I say something. He also takes the kids side (in most disagreements) either by not defending me or gas lighting me in front of the kids. This doesn’t happen as often as it used to but it still happens occasionally.
And a Therapist?! They’re over a $100/hr and not all therapists are created equal.
My experience has been that I have to go from therapist to therapist and start all over, again and again as many therapists I’ve dealt with have a screw loose or have a god complex. But I definitely need someone to talk to. It’s so hard
They can be very charming and therapists don’t see it. It’s really sad. My husband actually told me that the therapists took his side. A responsible therapist does not diagnose until they have done diagnostic assessments so I find this to be highly unlikely.
I agree with you concerning the therapists. It takes money and time and it is exhausting.....to find the right person...They often call it " the right fit"..But I have encountered therapists who were harmful.....
@@yorkiemom7858 My ", so-called"assessment " is still a Joke 5+ Years, later.
@@dml4539 This is Alanon. This is for families of those struggling with addiction to drugs and alcohol, is it not? How do I show up and announce my husband is a narcissist? 🤷♀️
@@donnaroffey7680 I’m so sorry you are having to go through this.
When there is no trust, you question everything. Can anyone blame us?
My first thought about the networking was an affair, especially if he’s done it before.
We had that issue earlier in our marriage 25 years ago (before I knew he was a narcissist). It’s a story too long to tell but I have played detective for years and found no evidence of it again but he still lies A LOT.
We have massive money problems because of his secrecy and deceit. I gave all that to God for years andstopped looking at the $ as long as he made sure me and the kids were taken proper care of.
He did until about 2 years ago. It’s been getting progressively worse and he’s not taking care of his responsibilities toward us as he should any more.
I would play detective regarding the “networking” if I were you, but I would be very low key about it. If he’s up to something nefarious, you need to stay calm and think through your next move very carefully.
Keep watching videos like this. Look up “neglectful narcissist “ videos.
I’ll be praying for you.
It was re-assuring for me to hear that the financial coercive control can take the form of the parent who works way more to not be permitted to spend money on things like getting hair done occasionally. I also had two jobs to support my family yet got told off for buying things that saved me time. It was as if my time had no value to him.
So many strong and clever women and mothers out there - cheers for you ❤
This is so familiar! For the last year I was verbally assaulted by my 17 year old daughter, who by that time had been coached into hating me. It was the most horrible life changing experience I have been through. There was not a word or, an action taken, by her father, it was almost like “wow” your a shitty mom!’ I was working on that relationship also,
She is 18 now, we have been doing better and if it keeps going that way GREAT.. but now someone wants me to change my mind about staying, he’ll change , he’ll give me $$, he’ll not be dark etc……..he’s sorrrry! For what????
32 yrs same crap, I have my sanity and I will take my freedom! Slow process but worth it
What a miserable relationship. Singleness is far more sane than that torture.
Finding out about more betrayals years after the relationship was over, is flabbergasting. 😮
“I lived a life with so much to manage”
Speaks volumes …
Fantastic interview 🙏 It’s been 7 years since I left my narcissistic abusive relationship and emotionally I am still putting the pieces together. There are so many similarities with my relationship and Dr. Cocchiola’s experience. My EX, who is not my son’s biological father (he passed away when my son was 4 1/2,)has not spoken to me since 2020. I put the narcissist on the deed of my home and almost lost everything including my own life due to so much self hatred and blame. My Ex, has painted me as a crazy, cheating and unstable parent when none of that is true. I have even been called an abuser. I would be further along in my healing if I had a loving relationship with my son, his absence is a daily reminder of the abuse and the residual damage caused by a 17year long abusive relationship and than 3 more years of abuse through the legal system. It’s like living an grief everyday. My 3 children all have emotional issues and struggle and anxiety and self hatred. Thankfully I have a loving relationship with 2 of my children. This interview gives me hope that one day my so will see the truth. The manipulation is so deep seeded within him.
My mother is bipolar and definitely on the narcissistic spectrum. I was rejected at birth by her. My brother was the golden child. He was sweet and I was a “little bitch.” Our mother controlled my brother’s life and destroyed all of his loving relationships. In 2012, my brother ended his life. She blamed me for not being there for my brother, but truly, I know she destroyed him piece by piece.
Thank you so much for another great interview.
The damage the narcs do! I am so sorry to read this, you lost your brother!
I totally understand. When they alienate your precious child, they inflict an agony that never ends. 🫂💙😿
My Father hates my girlfriend and refuses to speak to her. He thinks she is stupid. My father is a covert needy narcissist. He sees me as an extension of himself, which I am not. I hate him. I am not uncomfortable in saying that. I hate this man. He has abused, criticized, and diminished me my entire life. I have dated my girlfriend for over 3 years and my father has never spoken more than 2 words to her. If I ‘go against his wishes’ then he does everything in his power to manipulate me. I have been in constant verbal fights with him. His eyes go black, his face gets red, and he laughs at me to mock me.
OMG!!!!! This is my story!!! This is sooo insidious!!! People don’t understand!!!!!!!! I’ve lost EVERYTHING except myself!!!!!
Excellent interview. So many warning signs that get excused. I just learned from this video that mockery is abusive. It’s not meant to be funny. It’s cruel and you are told you can’t take a joke. I always felt confused. The ex covert Narc, no longer in my life, used this constantly. He used mockery to abuse me without me realizing what it was. But it made me feel bad. If I became annoyed he said I couldn’t take a joke. That I took things too seriously. That I was too sensitive. Classic disguised abuse. His adult daughter has major anxiety issues and insecurity from the mockery he used against his wife. Can’t take a joke?
Thank you Doctor Ramani. These informative videos have really helped me. I’m healing slowly and trying to rebuild myself.
Exactly, daughters observe the treatment on their mothers and internalize with much seriously negative effects on self esteem or it trains subservience (to abusers) or body dysmorphia and a host of damaging feelings about their gender or leads them to more masculine traits. Sons process it outwards and feel justified in aggression or mockery, and cheating as a norm or that lying and controlling is what men are expected and supposed to do, ie treat women badly, or in some cases both childrens gender understanding is now predisposed to become unhealthy by becoming over emeshed or collaborating with the abused or feeling defensive with the targeted one and in alliance with the abuser. In truth, a pattern of coersive control especially those cases where it becomes dystructive or dangerous to the family units over healthy functioning should be called Family Violence or Family Assaultive Violence. Domestic Abuse is not clear enough or taken serious enough for other to see that the familky has become a dangerous (to all the members) cult like harmful entity. I say all as violence or violent ends are quite common in these cases ie Gabby P, and many, many others where even the abuser has a violent end, by self harm or death by outside intervention etc.
The part about the harm this does to children was really poignant. First of all I had narcissistic parents and ultimately ended up being mobbed when my sociopathic ex weaponized my narcissistic family against me. The part of not really being able to be a mom and I get that because it feels like all you can do is try to undo the damage their father was doing to them . Just consistently being a good person and a stable loving parent is the best thing you can do ; Kids don't want to I had been defending myself on and off for years from my ex's allegations and lies about substance abuse, which family court is very biased against and yet they did nothing at my ex being diagnosed with ASPD and NPD even with years of proven history in court. My sons and I were always very close . My ex took everything and everyone from me and he couldn't stand that he never turned my kids against me, but when he drove my eldest son to a tragic death at 20 years old his dad could barely conceal his glee as if he was thinking, "She lost him after all." He loved all the narcissistic supply he got as a grieving father, all while I watched him do everything in his power to destroy all three of us, and he got pretty damn close.
My God, I am so sorry for your loss. The anxiety that never leaves & only gets worse even intermittently rotated with so called good times!! My story is almost identical to Dr. Cocchiolla. My prayers to every woman & child is that they come back to one another and heal & love each other deeply! It can happen to anyone!
So sorry this happened to your family. It sure is a shocker to realize you are living with the devil. Been there. Done that.
What an evil person he is....I am sorry that you went through this.I am sorry for your loss.
Same kind of ex in my life weaponizing my own (narc) family against me and doing Patental.Alienation on me with my kids. Jesus Christ has been my faithful friend. ❤
My parents had a marriage with coercive control, and I didn't fully realize that until I visited them one time many years after leaving home. Being in their 70's, and now seeing them in person over a few days and not just talking on the phone, I could really see the scary dynamics that played out with my father and his controlling behavior towards my mother. It was heart breaking, and she was totally brainwashed by his abuse. My father also left a gun on the counter that time, when I essentially let him know that I saw and knew what he was doing. Therapy had given me an authentic self, and it could hold that space of honesty when I was around them.
That experience helped me to see some of the dangerous dynamics in one of my relationships, and helped me to leave and heal for myself.
Good for you calling out your father.
i enjoyed your post and see a similar dynamic when visiting some of my own relatives. Its unnerving to witness. I pointed some things out that i just couldn't endure one more minute of and things went nuclear. Maybe it was the way i said it. How did your dad respond when you called him out?
It would be much more helpful for the rest of us if you could detail what you saw your dad doing to your mom that you called coercive control.
@@bookbeing it's weird because I was still afraid of him on a deep gut level from being a child, and rightly so. But he became very angry in a silent, simmering way. Rageful, and the implied threat of physical violence was right there at the surface. He didn't hit me, but he implied or acted like he would or could hit me and it would be bad.
I think, this coercive control trains us over time to anticipate the rage and/or violence, so that we fill in the blanks of what could happen in our own minds. This way, the abuser doesn't have to work so hard after a while and we work overtime freaking ourselves out. In the end, I chose my own reality and stood in my own, adult integrity and with my body language let him know I wasn't afraid of him anymore. He shrank back and avoided me until I left.
But the gun on the counter was definitely a message, "I could shoot and kill you.". You know, I think the truth is what abusive people hate most of all. That's why we need to be so very careful when we make plans to leave. Lundy Bancroft's book "Why Does he Do That" is life saving.
@@beaglerescue5281 thank you, it helped me in recovering emotionally and freeing myself from his historical hold over me. I wasn't afraid of him anymore, once I could see and accept who he truly was.
This podcast is so healing for those of us who have been through this! Thank you both 🙏
It’s incredibly validating. I realize I am not alone in this. There are many who share the same story
My partner who is always late to everything thats about other people, was actually early once, it was my mothers surprise birthday party, and he was tasked with collecting her and bringing her to the event... needless to say he arrived with mum early, before we were all there, and definitely ruined the surprise!
What an excellent guest. Dr Christine is so genuine and candid with a pleasant, soothing voice that allows the message to sink gently in and settle where it's needed. Thank you both ladies, you are part of an important movement, doing consequential work and you are appreciated by thousands upon thousands of people. ❤
It's always a trap. Loyalty is being demanded= abused and they threaten.
Yep. Reinforcement on a variable ratio schedule. It’s happening to me and I’m a behavior analyst. Happens to all of us. Because of bias and co-dependency
I'm a behavior analyst as well. I was in an abusive relationships before I started my career (grew up with a narcissistic father) and even after I started my career, I got into another one. I could recognize many of the tactics she was doing since it wasn't my first experience with abuse, but she also some tactics that were new to me. I even secretely started taking data on some of her behaviors lol. The thing that helped me start to detach from her control was when her intermittent reinforcement got lazy and she was doing way more punishment.
Heart breaking and almost all of it happened in my marriage too. So glad to be out and glad this woman is out as well and the daughter sees the truth.
I would love to see Lundy Bancroft as a guest! His book was pivotal in helping me heal from my experiences with my narcissistic, first husband♥️
I've experience so much of this..still with him.. adjusting my income, critiquing my cooking, critiquing how I clean, how I wrote the budget, subtly threatening suicide, turning my kids against me, criticizing my hobbies, and more..and I'm still there
I'm sorry, it's difficult and painful situation to be in. My heart goes out to you. Take care of yourself and your kids because when we neglect ourselves we are unable yo thrive and flourish which is exactly how they want it. By the grace of god you will find a way out. Keep strong and know you matter. Your thoughts and feelings matter. After 7/8 years of abusive relationships god gave me a chance to find peace and harmony. Things take time but just work on yourself and your situation. Everyday your one step closer to where you want to be. That goes to all my brothers and sisters struggling.
I remember having the conversation where I was done and he said he would end his life. And I told him to go for it. Lawd, the drama that ensued after that 😅. The things we live through.
Recently some random woman from social media started coercing me into a professional relationship of sorts and my gut wasn't having it. After weeks of 3 hour phone calls, I was just so confused as to why this grown woman was invading my life so forcibly, why she had so much time for me. She said all the things a mother would say and just manipulated her way into every conversation. Once I told her that her behavior is intrusive, she flipped like a switch. It was so wild. As soon as I cut off the calls, I felt so free.
I agree that everyone can encounter these types of personalities, but after experiencing 3 narcissistic relationships back to back, I can honestly say, that being too naive, submissive and wanting to look for the best in people, can make you stay with these types of people for way longer than you should…One I stayed for 7 years, the other one for almost 3 and the last one for 1 1/2 years. I think my biggest mistake was compromising some of my boundaries because they didn’t relate to physical abuse or cheating. I have very clear set of boundaries, but I noticed that I was willing to bend some of them for fear of losing the person I love. I rationalize this by constantly telling myself, no one is perfect, people make mistakes and I would give them a “second” chance just to realized that it was slowly getting worse… I think what I’ve learned is that it is okay to give chances, but we have to be willing to leave the relationship if their behavior doesn’t improve but escalates. In the beginning everyone will show you their best in themselves, but narcissists can’t really maintain it for very long. They are incapable of taking accountability for their wrong doings (saying sorry without change behavior.) they think they know it all, and when you show them proof that they’re wrong, they get angry and walk away from the conversation. They’ll comeback like nothing ever happened and when you try to bring it back up, they’ll accused you of liking drama. If you tell them that the comment they made was hurtful, they’ll accused you of not being able to take a joke. jokes. Always listen to your gut feeling, don’t let anyone make you feel like maybe you’re overreacting or being paranoid or crazy. If it is a one way street, meaning when they get mad when you do something that they have been doing for a long time. If they start trying to control how you dress, who you hang out with, who you can talk to and can’t talk to, or try to isolate you from your family… I realized now that it is no coincidence why I keep attracting these types of personalities into my life. Please people do the inner work, and don’t be afraid to have clear set boundaries. The right person will respect them, the wrong ones will think you’re too much, and that’s how you’ll really know who deserves to be in your life and who doesn’t…
Oh and by the way, they all cheated on me in the end… the more time I spend with them, the more cheating I endured. It’s definitely true that they will look for “supply” specially when things are rocky.
Every word that you wrote is so accurate. They use the same patterns.All of them.
We are not alone because even Dr R. Rossenberg admitted to experiencing narcissistic abuse. Sadly, this happens too often & can happen to anyone! Great podcast & very helpful in my long journey of healing❤. Thank you to both of you for sharing with us all of these valuable information. Take care & peace everyone👍.
I spent 30 years in a narcissist relationship… he would never commit to marriage but never said NO. It it so hard to understand how I didn’t know or see what was going on. Eventually I did and leave him with nothing, and lost my home due to his behaviour and control.
Therapy, therapy all the way when listening to the above, I had no idea to the extent of the abuse… until I left him. Trauma bonding, financial abuse and cheating. Very interesting to listen to.
What do you mean he never said no? You mean he never said no to getting married?
.
@@007nadineL I wanted to get married but he would always make an excuse - he never said he didn’t want to and never said No it wasn’t for him.
This is very insightful. I am post divorced and the coercive control continues, indoctrinated my children against me, recorded the children and now using the recordings in children custody case to diminish me. I hear some people say the abuser is "clever" but I think this individual is severely mentally ill. Thank you. I hope all survivors are able to learn the processes of this insidious pattern of behaviour.
My ex-narc triangulated my children for 5 years while he had an affair with his friend's wife. It created a confusing distance between myself and our children. The cruelty of hurting our children like that is so damaging. I didn't know about this until many years after our divorce.
Dr. Ramani I have shared with hundreds of women to do the work that Meridith Miller suggests. The sobriety list does work and it forever changed how I see everyone.
That wonderful quote,
When someone shows you who they are, believe them the "first" time...
became my life goal. I don't judge others, I don't expect perfection (of course), but I do make a mental note about what they say or do. Enough pauses and I know to take a deeper look and shift.
When she said she couldn’t watch a show or listen to music in her home, that struck a chord! My ex would find fault with everything I did, said, liked, etc. He’d tell me my music was “weak” or the shows I like were “mundane”. No matter what I wore, he’d tell me that I had no sense of style. He’d mock how I wore my hair, & if I had any friends, he would tell me they were idiots or other derogatory terms.
EXACTLY.My ex did the same thing! He said his taste in music was superior to mine because he had more"culture".
Your story is so similar to mine, it is oddly comforting to know someone else has lived through similar circumstances. The suicide threat in the beginning of the relationship, the triangulation with the kids, saying our son will never love me, telling my kid I cheated-the lies lies and more lies. Jokes at my expense. Making me feel as though I could not survive without him. Only getting worse after the divorce
Turning off the wifi and phones. The insane email rants. The intermittent reinforcement. All of it. Hacking into social media and email, sending me screen captures of messages with friends. So messed up and terrifying. The post separation abuse!
@@AnonymousAnaThey are predators. I am not sure why these types of abusers are not being referred to as such. I am sorry for everything you have been through. Everyone has the right to a good life in which they can thrive. The railroading and the steamrolling over people's lives is what these abusers do best. They infect the lives of others. It feels like battling a deadly infection, because it is the same. The worst is how they believe they are entitled to cause the endless damage.
And please also be aware of the dangers of leaving a coiercive controlling relationship and how vindictive and relentless there revenge is towards you for even thinking of leaving after all they were and have done for you . They even capable of harming there own children quite often gravely to see it effects your life forever . So please put in saftey plans when moving forward I say track them with trackers so you know when they are near by because you know you can never prepare for what chaos they will be conflicting
I felt this, literally brought back how I felt at the time with the narcissist in my and my children's life. I almost shut it off but thought I really needed to hear this to remind myself that I wasn't crazy and that my children and I really lived through this. When you try to explain this to someone they think you are the crazy one..To the public and his family he could do know wrong. I'm so sad that she went through this and I thank her for sharing her story. This was a great interview.
This was EXCELLENT! If only they taught this in junior high and high school. And women had to pass a test every year thereafter. I love the idea of writing an "ick" list.
I identify so much with this episode. I was married for 31 years to a malignant narcissist. The only difference is that my child knew who he was at a very early age and distance from him as much as my child could. I am so glad for my child. I could not believe this man that I loved was so evil. The more I listened the more I most identify with this. Even police was on his side because he was a law enforcement individual. I was not allowed to use the dishwasher or hire somebody to help me. These monsters are all the same. Thank you Dr Ramini because you were one of the professionals I listened to in 2018 when I started to see I was in a crazy relationship and it was getting even worse by the minute. Thank you Dr Ramani
He stole my jewelry, my passport and all my child ‘s baby pictures. So horrible. I am at peace now but always cautious because he is evil.
Thank you so much for this discussion. I recognise so many of the things that my first husband did to me and my children.
It's very difficult in the beginning because you love your husband, you love your children, and you don't want them to experience a broken home.
A mother will always try and protect her children and home, even to the detriment of herself.
I stayed for 26 years. Mine was also a heavy drinker, which adds further trauma.
I thank God that my children are all well adjusted and happy even though they suffered emotional abuse from him as well. He would praise one and defame the other.
Also had electricity turned off, phone hidden, clothes thrown out, locked out of the home.
Just so many similarities.
He would go out drinking on his own, leaving me to look after the children.
Lie to my family about me.
Just so much.
I left him at age 51, which was difficult financially as I was not earning much, but God has been there for me.
I would like to add that there was infidelity as well and this made me very wary of men that I never went out with any man for 8 years until I met a man from our church whom I married and live a peaceful happy life.
Ladies, you can overcome and build a life for yourselves.
Thank you Dr. Ramani and Dr. Cocchiola for sharing and educating the public about Narcissism.
Her every word resonates with me. Even electricity switch off.
Same!
"It's not about missing the signs, it's about understanding the processes". Thank you for that, Dr Ramani! I haven't shared my story with very many people, because the times I have I have been mostly invalidated. I have ended up feeling worse, rather than better, for opening up to someone about what I went through.
My story began with a malignant narcissist mother, who mentally and emotionally tortured me my entire life, until I finally went no contact 3 years ago at the age of 60. I am finally free of her abuse, but the pain and grief remain.
I have also unfortunately ended up in a number of abusive relationships with men throughout my life. A few of them were narcissists, a few of them were just emotionally immature and maladjusted, without any relationship or communication skills.
Thank you Dr. Cocchiola, for sharing your story! So often we victims get blamed for our own abuse, with accusations that we "should have just left". Unless one has been in a relationship with a narcissist, it is impossible to understand the intricate and complicated dynamics of it.
My ex ruined my brother's wedding for me, my sister's 40th birthday, etc.... so this video was very insightful because I've never thought of it the way it's been presented here. This story is so much like mine.
Ohhh how all of these stories are identical. Sometimes I think all of them attended the same school and read from the same book. This story is so similar to mine. Thanks God he finally decided to leave the US and can no longer harm my kids psychologically. I feel bad for his new wife who has no idea yet what is in store for her. Sad sad!
Such a great episode. Thank you so much Dr. Ramani and Dr. Cocchiola. This was incredibly insightful and validating in so many ways 👏🏽. Thank you.
No one would threaten to lose his life if they really love you. They would want you to live a good life even if it means the step out of your life.
Well said! 💯
No one would do any of theses cruel behaviors if they love you. Narcissists are incapable of love, sadly.
20:53 wow! I so relate. The financial abuse when you are the one earning the money is so confusing. Especially when they try to make you feel like you are being the controlling one just because you don't have enough cash after bills to appease them.
This interview and Dr. Christine’s experience is immensely helpful in instructing and explaining how we can slowly become tangled in another person’s sick behavior patterns. I’ll never forget this because it’s deeply upsetting, yet outlines her path of escape and healing, explaining why it’s a long process, yet can be done. I’m almost relieved that he got so bad, because as as Dr. C said, it took that to make her face it. These people are sneaky and calculating, to say the least. Deeply thankful to you both!
I understand. My ex was also a monster like yours BUT he spent no time with the kids...and he was additionally physically & sexually abusive on top of the rest.
Narcissist CAN'T change!!!
Dr Ramani 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 i am just so grateful I found you. I cannot even fully explain how much you helped me.
My therapist for years while I was married said I was “lucky to have him” it confirmed to me that I was wrong..I knew nothing about narcissism at the time.
Please, please talk about how to handle this situation when your children don’t see it. They get old enough to have kids if their own. I am part of your healing program. THiS holds me back. We hear all about letting toxic people go (I understand this), but how, how do you let your toxic children go even though they don’t believe you and yes treat you with contempt, when they were trained from a young age yo do this? Is there a point that regardless of what they have been through you hold them responsible for their behaviors when the narc is still spreading lies about you? Please please advise. Or have a part 2 of this podcast. Thank you!!
Teaching your children self-love, self - respect and boundaries are a few ways to protect them from these relationships. Never silence their voice and encourage them to identify deal breakers with friends, family, and romantic interests.
Excellent advice from the coach.
Never keep any abuse a secret.
Resources: Personal development.
Safe People by Henry Cloud
The Gift Of Fear by Gavin De Becker
Why Does He Do That? Lundy Bancroft
What The Heck Is Self Love? Jonathon Aslay
Getting The Love You Want by Harville Hendrix
Attached by Amir Levine
The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer
The Hoffman Process by John and Julie Gottman
Non Violent Communication by Marshall B Rosenberg PhD
Emotional Intimacy by Robert Masters
Codependent No More - Pia Mellody
8 Dates by John and Julie Gottman
If The Budda Dated by Charlotte Kasi
Thank you for bringing up children who are coercively controlled. I feel like we are sort of the forgotten victims in all this. I'm thankful that more people are becoming aware of coercive control, but the general discussion always seems to be centered on coercive control in romantic relationships and it's rare that people acknowledge that this type of abuse occurs amongst parents and children. I definitely experienced this with my dad. There were soooo many things that I now recognize were abusive, and his favorite tactic was to take away my car keys, which oftentimes occurred for no reason whatsoever. Or, he would take my car keys, then insult me relentlessly or beat me up and the second I reacted, he'd say to everyone, "See? Obviously, she's out of control and can't be trusted to drive. I'm doing this for her own safety." Ughhhh. And people always believed it! I've often been told, even by professionals, that my dad is just "protecting" me and that I'm ungrateful. I had an ex who was the same way. When I left my ex, people were so supportive and validated me when I expressed how abusive he was towards me. When I severed ties with my dad, I was shamed for being a spoiled brat who just didn't understand that my dad was simply trying to look out for my best interest. Heck, even when I was a kid and CPS was called on my dad, they didn't do anything because they felt that the marks and bruises I had from my dad didn't look "severe" enough to be considered serious. I'm not even kidding. It's sad what little resources kids have when it comes to dealing with abusive parents, so thank you for acknowledging that children are affected by this too.
I am so sorry. These are terrible things to endure. 😿💙🫂
I definitely know men and women who fit this, and the ruining-of-special- occasions thing where they have to ruin it for the partner (and sometimes for others, but we tend to smooth things over for the others). The narc litmus test for me is to observe if they can/not enjoy celebrating anyone else or celebrating a holiday or family event!
Oh and I have 2 psychology degrees 1 sociology one and 1 social work. Just wow the level of work this man put into snowing me
Wow! The lowest level of humor is mocking someone. Wow
This hit me hard
100% accurate on the kids. This has happened to me too. Very, very, similar stories and NO ONE talks about it!! I spent years trying to figure out what was going on with my kids. I read everything, researched everything. In my case my kids are old enough now to have kids of their own. The pain of losing my children, the grief (and self blame) of not knowing enough to get them out since I did not understand, but seeing these behaviors now being used with my grandchildren is unbearable. Yes, there needs to be more awareness. The kids are abused also in this! Please see Dr. Craig Childress’s videos too! Thank you for sharing your story
His work is excellent, but it is too soft on accepting the abuser back into the circle of influence after reunification between the targeted parent and the alienating one, rather than charging them with spousal and child abuse. He also seems to give credence that this is done by the abuser not knowing the harm they are doing rather genuine deliberate attempts for achieving power and control or seeing the coersion as evil and in itself a dangerous behavior from a mentallyl disordered perpetrator.
This is so sad , I am out of same kind of marriage, married at age 16 and 2 months, 18 years of his abuse 2 sons they stayed with me, 5 years of restraining order renewed he was in jail for making treats, breaking the order and more I was in ER with bytes was the enough… I survived because the Grace of God 🙏 thank you for this discussion HOPE someone to understand and get out NOW NOT AFTER 18 years of hell .
I appreciate your guests finally we are talking about these topics without shame. I have gone back four times myself over a 17 year period. I didn’t know why so I’m just so grateful this is exactly what has happened to me also.❤ once they have us set up in their rat cage they abandon us without money, food, utilities, etc…
Love the “ick list” Do it with a friend who is the history keeper of the things that were done to you. A BFF will remember what you forgot.
“Is there a pattern of diminishing/diminishment of you”!?
In and out of a relationship for four years with more of a sociopathic, grandiose narcissist. He had a long arrest record and had done time. Listening to this video helped me with some key points. I am finally cycling out of the relationship for real, but it has not been easy. I would always want to go back because of the charm and intelligence. Thankfully, I truly believe I am out of it. Helpful video.
Thank you for sharing this video. My mother is a vulnerable narcissist. I can see now that my ex husband is one, too. The financial abuse really hits home, because I have always funded everything. My son has special needs, and now that he is an adult, his father has been keeping him from me. Listening to this podcast, I can see the pieces fitting into place.
I left also after thirty years… this is like my story exactly 🙏
It's been 30 yrs for me too. I need to get out!!