3 groups of people we encounter when healing from narcissistic relationships
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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
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The enablers are as harmful as the narcs to our health and well-being. Our healing journey should be on our own terms.
100% !
Hell, sometimes they are even more harmful. The enablers are even bigger healing thwarters!
Totally agree! everyone has to heal on their terms it's same as losing a loved one...Just get over it is harming words to say.
They're self absorbed as hell, if you probe a little bit into their motives and intentions. The enablers I mean.
Enablers don't accept the truth. They do or say everything to deny the reality. 😮 I avoid them at any cost.
From my experience, these are the three groups : 1 - 75% don't care about your problems.
2 - 20% are happy you have them.
3 - 5% are the ones, here on this channel who understand and give advice and support.
Agreed. And for those who "don't care about your problems" might try for a bit to understand, but cannot comprehend it since it doesn't fit into their experiences and therefore their interpretation of "reality" and finally give up and not "waste any further time" with you.
And these are the ones I waste the most time on, trying to explain narcissism, and try to explain the situation in hopes they'd someday understand. And that I'm afraid to open up about the narcissistic abuse because if I do so, they'll either minimize it, blame me for it, think I'm lying and making it up, or that I'm "nuts". And yet, I foolishly TRY to explain it to them, realizing in the end that it doesn't matter what I say to them, or how I explain it to them, they'll NEVER understand it and CANNOT comprehend it. And in the end, either I stop trying to explain it and just cut ties, or they get tired of me and just cut ties. Proving it's just a waste of time of trying to explain it to those who have not experienced it.
The good are far less than 5%
@@WinterWarlock261 This hits a bit too close to home, I've definitely alienated a few people while trying to explain all of this in a (frankly) misguided attempt at looking for answers and support, I feel that public consciousness is becoming more and more aware of these things in general, but really unless someone has seen it and felt it first hand they can't / won't understand, and I feel selfish that I tried.
@@WinterWarlock261I tried to explain for years how my narc sibling and enabling family treated me. They couldn't understand but we often avoided the subject until the family broke the final straw which caused me to go no contact. Then, they understood what being in contact with the 'terrorists' was like over decades.
I'd add at least 1% who aren't only happy you have problems, but will actively go out of their way to cause you problems.
People that haven't experienced this type of abuse are fortunate and they can't wrap their head around it ,so you can't expect them to understand it. Thank you again Dr. Ramani for your intelligence and insightfulness on this subject.
You would think that after hearing about it, learning from experts, listening from those who have been through would open some kind of compassion in their hearts. I haven't been in some situations but still can be angered by injustice or by the entitlement and arrogance of perpetrators.
Narcissistic abuse can ruin someone's life and have effect on the children that I feel is so unnecessary and preventable by educating people and creating more legal protection that is none existing today.
Maybe I am unreasonable, but I do expect people to do the right thing and not to be ok with abuse. Mental abuse included. What kind of world would we be living in if we only can see suffering when we suffered from the same treatment? It definitely makes you feel deeper if you have shared experience, but I don't think listening to people who suffered from it is not enough to feel their pain.
@@tahwsisihtExcellently stated 🎯🎯🎯👏🏼💯💯💯
The hardest for me was my closest family denying that anything bad even happened to me after 5 years of abuse and they still do 5 years later.
Could always go no contact just for your own sanity.
So sorry, praying for your continued healing ❤🙂🙏
Unfortunately, they will NEVER acknowledge the abuse so don't expect it. If they admitted the truth...their house of cards would come tumbling down... and that can't be allowed.
I'm so sorry. You are not alone. The 6 women and 2 men (adults) who confided in me about the sexual/psychological/emotional abuse they endured when they were kids/late teens were invalidated by their own families who tried to bury the shame and guilt (for not protecting them) and were afraid of the turbulence that it would cause if they faced the truth/pursue justice (defamation, loss of financial support, loss of status, fear of revenge, etc).
The abusers were: a father/psychiatrist/rich French men (my friend is his daughter) , an American stepfather (the Uruguayan mother allowed him to discipline her boy, my friend, but not her 2 girls. She still denies she didn't know. The biological father lived in a different state and only found out when he was an adult and believed his son/feels guilty for not protecting), the Brazilian male friend/hairdresser of the single mother who was a police chief (the friend offered to help and babysit my male friend when he was a kid. His biological father was absent. My friend never told his mom or sister), the Indonesian uncle of my friend (who carried an immense shame and I met her at a healing house of Joao de Deus, who 2 months later was arrested for abusing abused women for the past 4 decades), the Brazilian son of the neighbours who my friend and family knew from childhood (they insisted that she was mistaken and imagined things. she moved to another country when she grew up and kept family at arms length since.), the Kazakhstani boyfriend (my friend was rejected by her biological parents and raised by other relatives and they didn't believe her. they saw the disclosure as an inconvenience), the male older friend of the family of my Indian friend who is married (the family and husband said she had to let go, she was/still is depressed and live on medication and quit studying medicine because she is traumatised and feels stuck).
They are all in their healing path, some have more support them others and were able to build a healthy life, family, home and career, a few of them I know are still in deep grief and trouble (prescription/drug abuse, unstable relationships, debt, still in contact with enablers, one of them joined the army/went to Iraq war and returned with PSTD).
Please consider professional help and a combination of talking therapy and somatic therapy. And also find support outside your circle. Stay on your healing path. Only show your vulnerability to the people you know and trust OR the people in a professional capacity.
I gave them a chance to reconnect after 20 years. Nope... Still the same madness. Don't have any more nerves to burn for this. Family should be there to support you, not be there to drive you off the bridge by siding with abusers, liars they don't even know and not even give testimony over things they admit under 4 eyes. And not even anything special but just whether the heaters functioned or not. The excuse? "I don't want to mess with the work of your lawyer!" - that was the final straw. Still the insistence that "We always had your back! We never let you down!" remains. My family lives in a fantasy world.
I've gotten a lot of "you should forgive her, it'll make you feel better" which is BS because I'm not going to forgive someone who's entirely unrepentant. There's also the "you did bad things too" which is stupid because yes, I yelled a couple times and I wasn't a perfect girlfriend but she was abusive and gaslighing. Whenever someone says that, I get so mad. Like, you try being isolated, degraded, and gaslit for half of your life and see if you yell back eventually.
Forgiving someone who is unrepentant does nothing. I think it’s a stupid suggestion.
I agree. I won't waste my time or energy forgiving the unrepentant. Not my job-its God's, if you believe in God. I also don't buy into the ol "Forgiveness isn't for them, it's for you."
this is also my experience, the girl is the one who staged it all and was evil and I should forgive. I forgave myself
this just allows the person to keep abusing you. Narcissists laugh when they get away with hurting someone. It makes them so happy its disgusting.
Narcissistic abuse is very real.
Thank you Dr. Ramani for all your knowledge and wisdom.
1:00 - "It's not a small number of folks in position of power and decision making such as therapists, healthcare professionals, teachers, judges, lawyers, policy makers, who don't only get this, they don't want to get this, and they make decisions that can re-harm the people, who are already having to navigate the mess raised by relationship with narcissistic people."
It's the ones who don't WANT to get this that I have no patience for. If so, then they shouldn't be involved in the conversation about this subject. We don't need that negativity & they should move on to topics they are more familiar & comfortable with. Don't just sit & complain & criticize about Narcs, words, Survivors, descriptive terms or anything else on the matter. Go to another channel or topic. Excellently said 🎯🎯🎯©️
Enablers are worse than Narcs in my opinion. It's one thing to be a horrible person, it's another to turn a blind eye to horrible people hurting somone
It is truly galling. Moral weakness at its worst.
Worse when narcissists gang up on you. Enablers are often willing to retract their ways when they "see the light".
@@rosieE121 My grandmother turned a blind eye to my mother abusing me for 17 years, despite being a "Good Hearted Christian Woman". Enablers are worst to me.
@@fandomphantom319she didn't see what was wrong and how it could be helped. I went through that myself for a while and then realized I was hurting someone else too.
@@rosieE121 Oh, she saw ways she could help. Don't pretend you know the whole story, you are just one example. Many enablers DONT "see the light", ever. Instead, mine avoided the very obvious ways that they could have done anything, but instead they made excuses and diminished how much it ruined me. Because the family reputation was more important.
A lot of enablers don't actually care, and there is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise because IVE SEEN IT. You apparently haven't.
The heartbreak when your best friend becomes an enabler…
I’m definitely a member of the second group. My late husband’s family directly told me that they “don’t want to hear anything negative” about their uncle and my reply was “So you’re saying that I don’t need to talk to you.” For decades my husband, who died in November of 2023, turned every single one of my family and friends against me. I have no friends, my large family is estranged from me and I have two people who are willing to listen to what I have to say. I sometimes struggle to find a positive attitude but I do have good days and I like being able to acknowledge them.
You may have escaped a whole group of narcissistic types.
I recently overheard two millennial women talking and one said to the other about someone else, "She has a negative mindset" and I resonated with that description. I hate that I resonated with it - but it's true - there is a lot of negative processing that must occur to heal. I've started a support group for parents of narcs who've discarded their parents; for the reason of having a safe place to talk and process and learn you are not alone. Unfortunately, I think the second group Dr. Ramani talks about is growing in this new reality we find ourselves in.🤍
@@badomaji Thanks for that. I’m the tenth of eleven siblings and my father was a raging narcissist who abused us all physically, mentally, emotionally, and sexually. I’m number ten. My mother was extremely depressed and gave birth to us two years apart because my father wouldn’t beat her when she was pregnant.
We were created to protect her and I understand why now but knowing it when I was a child just left me lonely in a sea of people. I don’t know how I survived that. My husband didn’t reveal his narcissism until twenty years into our thirty two union. A psychiatrist once told me that my siblings and I survived a concentration camp. I realize that the statement was hyperbolic. It was bad but I was never pushed into an oven.
I am sad that this has been the outcome. Whether you loose connection to 2 or 20 people…. Suffering happens. And we are not in a competition to see who suffers the most. Hope those two that you have appreciated make up some of the damaged done😊
It will get better ❤
I am 63 years old and both of my parents and 2 siblings were extremely narcissistic. My parents are both deceased and I have no contact with my siblings. My healing has been long and very difficult BUT I am now in a place where I trust my gut and my feelings implicitly. I know my subtle and sometimes not so subtle body sensations and emotions that give me information that let me know when I am being disrespected, minimized, invalidated, misunderstood, gas lit, etc. I can then set a boundary, walk away, not engage, engage further, or whatever seems right for me at the moment. It is a constant practice but I love the feeling of trusting myself implicitly no matter what. My body knows the truth❤❤❤
Having similar experience, I am very happy for you. ❤
@@morebirdsandroses I am very happy for you too. It's really hard work, isn't it? ❤❣❤
I@@pammyb.7853It's actually been a lifetime! So thankful that there are sources for truth now, and to hear and respond to others who know! Happy day to you 🎉❤️
Awesome 👍🏼💯💯❤️❤️❤️
I am 67 years old, and have spent a lifetime solo (with intermittent narcissist partners), having grown up in a large family of narcissists (2 parents + 4 older siblings), (and being the empathetic scapegoat caretaker). 67 years old and I've never had any friends my entire life. Here's to being a survivor, anyway! I totally get what you are saying, and am in the same boat. Geesh, they can ruin our entire lives, don't they...
Healing from narc abuse may not be a post apocalyptic landscape, but it can feel like it.
So true!😂
SOOO True. 🎯💯🎯
I once had an appointment with a clinician who said to me "what's gaslighting?" I told her to look it up and that the appointment was now over.
Oh dear… I truly feel some in the mental health field maybe don’t live in the real world. I have asked my therapist when any terminology that I refer to, is it called that in the official field, just in case we are on crossed wires but actually still discussing the same topic. Some I feel spend their space in a work space as a worker…. People like myself or others that do self therapy via UA-cam, books etc see and experience another different world. Most people don’t want to be ‘uncomfortable’ full stop. Therefore don’t want to encourage discussion… and that is some therapists as well
It makes sense tho. You need to have some sort of privilege to get there. If a narc ruins your life it's going to be less likely that u become a psychologist.
@@edayavuz1667 and that in a nutshell is why the therapy industrial complex is so harmful to our mental health. It's about socal reproduction and maintaining the status quo. Any time someone is actually helped by it happens completely by accident or the work of an apostate clinician.
Thank-you Dr. Ramani. I went no contact with my mother 10 months ago after 54 years and some people have discarded me. However those that have been on the receiving end of her wrath over the years have stayed and supported me. I am grateful to these people however I’ve come to realise that I don’t need anyone’s validation except my own. No more gaslighting! Living in truth and light! God bless you Dr. Ramani.
Finding who is safe in your reality and life is paramount. Especially whilst healing. Its the mistake I made with my therapist at the time and when seeking community. I'm not making that mistake. Anything that doesn't feel safe from the reality of my life isnt safe.
Thank you for devoting your career to this group. Its much needed and horribly under researched. 38 years of narcissistic abuse and I can't let it be my whole life. Insightful video. Great stuff.
🙏👍💕👑
@@allthingsnewlife 🙏🙌🙌👍😊
They're sick. You're not ❤
@@denisegreenhoe1758 Thank you 🙏💝
Correct to whoever said that “they are sick”, and the victims of narcissism are not sick. Actually living alongside a narcissist can create illness. The difference is whoever has the motivation to heal, can get better. But narcissists generally do not have motivation to heal whereas victims of narcissistic abuse may have motivation to heal… or they may succumb to the abuse and subsequently become abusers or fall into psychological despair, etc.
The group four people is my siblings. They accept that we had a dysfunctional family, but aren't willing to acknowledge that there was abuse and emotional neglect. Abuse and neglect comes in a variety of forms.
They can't admit it. It's too shameful.
Their invalidating blindness just further isolates us from the help we need
There ain't a lot of resources available to help victims of narcissist abuse and domestic violence abuse in Texas. Damn shame
I just love the way you don’t hold back and tell it how it is you are 100% right
Narcissism exists in the mental health profession as well.
The thing that was most driving me insane was people not believing me, no one on my side. Then, you go to a therapist and they're also not on the your side??? This person shouldn't even be in psychology. Thank you Dr Ramani for all the life changing work, despite all the obstacles 🙏
Fantastic, Dr. Ramani! I am 74, and you have just described about 68 years of my life! I no longer try to talk to anyone about it. Not friends ( I really don't have many anymore, because I realized that they didn't want to hear it anymore; not family for all the reasons that you stated,that we all were involved in different ways with our mother; and really not even my therapist, because he doesn't want me to dwell in the past,but wants me to live the best life I can in the time that I have left. So, with your help, introspection, and self- healing I have done a lot of lonely healing, but I will forever be scarred by a narcissistic mother, husband of 42 years, and mother-in-law, all now RIP. I am now able to breathe freely without any impact from them anymore. Thank you, Dr. R🙏🙏
Yes, my therapist said that the only narcissism that exist is NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). I tried to explain to her that it is a personality trait like agreeableness and she got mad at me and told me I needed to find a new therapist, which I happily did so.
So glad you listened to yourself 😊
@@morebirdsandroses thank you ❤️
A couples counselor actually said this to me when ex-narc started smear campaign: "You can be the villain today, but you'll be the hero tomorrow." WTAF? For the most part my friends have come through, but they often don't understand the grief and shame that comes from a shattered nervous system.
I've spent so much time on my own because of these groups of people. And I give myself kudos every day for taking on the bulk of my own healing. 😍 Thank you for the friendly reminder.
It felt awful but I had to cut off communication with my enabling sister. After one last attempt to express how my relationship with our mother and older sister is tearing at my soul, she literally responded “I can listen but I don’t know what to say.” This wasn’t the first incident she’s minimized or deflected… she uses “perspective” and “that’s how they are” or “you all always had a bad relationship”
I knew then I couldn’t be in contact with her as I go through my healing.
I think my boyfriend used to be in group 3b. His ex was a narcissist and he has said until he met her he never would have believed people like her existed. For awhile he thought if he gave her enough time, was kind enough, understanding enough, she would learn how to be a better person- that she just wasn't taught what was right or didn't get it growing up.
Yes, and I think also it's like Dr. Ramani said....they probably don't work in professions where there are a lot of them. They have little contact with them. I worked in the court system and let me tell you, they are prevalent there. When I first began working in that environment, I felt as though I had fallen into a shark tank. I had to learn to be harsh (I dealt with criminals) but within my group of a supervisor and close colleagues, I survived because, while they were harsh with me, I never doubted their support and respect for me. They wanted me to succeed. But I am slowly trying to get back to being the person I was before working in that environment because I don't like being harsh. It hurts some people and that's not my intention....but they don't know it. Anyway, glad your boyfriend was able to recognize the abuse. You live and learn.
I come across 3 types:
o) The wounded (the victim of narcissistic abuse)
o) The obnoxious (the narcissist themselves)
o) The ignorant (those who are either NOT victim or villain but do not understand narcissism)
And the ignorant is broken down further into 2 subgroups:
o) The arrogant (those who think narcissism isn't a thing, or those who blame the victim, or those who side with the narcissist and claim the narcissist is the TRUE victim)
o) The indifferent (those who don't understand narcissism, might briefly try, but who will NEVER get it and finally give up and choose to "not get involved" and move on)
And of the "wounded", these break down into further 3 groups:
o) Denial (those who refuse to believe it is happening, or blame themselves, or have hope it can change)
o) Recovery (those who acknowledge it, have started the grieving process, and work on the "acceptance" (I prefer the term "acknowledgement") that it DID happen, and have somewhat come to terms with it, who are not IMMEDIATELY triggered by thinking about it or deep into flashback - or if they are triggered or into flashback, can manage it)
o) Grieving (those who are just STARTING to process the pain, and as a fellow victim, I'm afraid of mentioning ANYTHING, including my OWN trauma, because it will send them further into meltdown- so it becomes walking on "broken glass" around them, unable to talk about ANYTHING)
there's another group; those who have done the healing and fully rebuilt themselves and their lives, who are examples of post-traumatic growth
You might need to do your own video on this. It's alot of important info.
Well said. I'm of the opinion that in the general populace, 10% are empathic, 10% are sociopaths (or narcissists - I don't make a distinction, same results), and 80% are apaths (flying monkeys, and the ignorant who don't want to learn - I don't have an opinion on the breakdown on that). So, it's 10% of us not supported, or directly attacked by the other 90%.
What's Also noteworthy is that it's possible to leave a group. It depends on your lack of knowlegde
@@kimwarburton8490 you don't heal from this horror completely. You can achieve 40-50% of the healing. That's it. Nobody can recover fully from gang rape. No one. Narcissistic abuse is a kind of gang rape. The narcissist abuses you in multiple ways emotionally, financially, physically, psychologically and spiritually.
Thank you for being there for us.
We must be carefully discerning who we let into our lives. Enablers are often responsible for a lot of damage especially at the beginning of our healing journey. Thank you for your help and support dr Ramani ❤
My first therapist believed narcissistic abuse isn't a thing and that narcissism is a fashionable concept. (Next!) That's how little education the general population has on the subject. The potential damage for long-term survivor is enormous.
The therapist was probably a narcissist.
I must admit if it didn't happen to me I would very much be the 'how do people let this happen to them?'.... I still am asking myself that question these days years later in the neutral zone
For years I told myself that I had grown out of my expressive outgoing loud colorful ethnic roots 'wow, I have matured & mellowed over the years" [group 2? maybe all the groups?!! LOL] HA! WOW~ after thirty years woke up one day and realized I had been in a coping coma! I'm back ! IT IS NEVER TOO LATE to heal. My insight for all of you [not advice! just an insight] TRUST YOURSELF! TY, Ramini & all fellow followers.
The last group are often the worst because they are so smug and make you feel worthless.
You are priceless! When you said “Well you shouldn’t diagnose someone you’re not a Doctor” you sounded just like a regular person - a Psychologist sounding like a regular person - priceless! Thanks for devoting your practice to the convoluted ins and outs of narcissism - totally priceless!❤
I’ve heard that comment too many times from my Narc and narc adult daughter. They go into a rage I dare to diagnose them. I’ve been a Pastoral counselor for 29 years and I have to trust my own assessment of the realities I’ve had to deal with. To silence the doubt in mind, I go through my Eeeek lists, all twelve journals, and I use that as proof to back myself that I’m not wrong. I’m getting stronger every day after separating and living in my own apartment. I was a prisoner for 44 years and I’ve chosen to remain married but to live apart. I’m still a work in progress and I’ve lost the best bulk of family. I don’t even miss them. They are all her enablers.
Looking good as usual, but looking especially pretty in this vid, dr. 🙂💙
Dr. Ramani , Thank you for restoring our sanity , from us victims and targets of hard core narcisistic abuse, we Love you !
After having my life derailed by a narcissistic relationship, imagine the added layer of grief I felt when I discovered how difficult it was to find support. What hurt me the most was the therapist who was pathologizing me and normalizing him. It is a deeply isolating experience and for a while I saw the world as full of either abusers or enablers. Grateful for this community. I feel seen.
My little world resembles nothing like it was before the religious abuse. But God has been so close to me, I feel His presence in me every day, He's so faithful.
This group loves you Dr Ramnie ❤️
Thank you Dr. Ramani. Currently , I am gone from the verbal and mental abuse (of 3 years ) I do see people who are enabling narcissistic behavior. A friend that used to make me feel not relaxed just told me, “ I think you are both narcissistic and that to just admit it, you both care about each other .” I told her please don’t start making me feel bad about this. Long story short, I realize that I have to block her number because it’s so early in my journey to heal . I just left the narcissist’s house to stay in a shelter. I also just found out that because my body was in so much internal stress, I have shingles right now and UTI and high cholesterol for the first time. Thank you for listening.
That is not a friend. She is in the group that is happy you are having issues.
@@BeeBeeBell I realize it now
Just what I needed to hear today. I've been trying to understand why others don't get it, and are blaming me.
Thank you
Thank you Dr. Ramani, anyone healing from narcissistic abuse is confused enough and it helps that you break down those that will either support the healing journey or throw some marbles on the path (whether they mean to or not).
The family system I was so grateful to have has been torn apart by my narcissistic parent. My parent taught me to value unity and then chose to gaslight and divide us with lies before he “conquered us.” The division makes it easier to indoctrinate, manipulate, control the narrative, etc. it’s unlike anything I’ve experienced and far from what I’d ever imagined. I walked away and thought the truth would come out, but before I’d had the chance to walk away, the abuse grew so severe and I lost my credibility. These narcissistic people know damn well what they’re doing and it kind of makes me sick to my stomach to think about all the time and love I put into him and his wellbeing. The cost was heavy and it fell upon me. I don’t know if I can fix it. I’d love to have family in my life again but can the gaslight be undone? Sometimes we have to build our own family…gaslighting is a thing and it can be horribly painful and heartbreaking and harmful, etc. it just stinks to go through and can be really destructive and devastating to our health and wellness.
This makes so much sense. It can be frustrating when seeking support from people who just don’t get what you’re going through when dealing with narcissists. But it’s so helpful being able to recognise who can or will actually be there for you.
It's an eerie experience to not have ANY narc-ish or self absorbed people in my life. It's like catching green lights all the time when driving, or the bus ariving at the exact time.. It's new for me but I also became aware of how f*cking strange of a story must feel for those who never experience any of this sh*t... Those people seemed like aliens to me growing up, I could spot them, but the psychological distance was like between Mars and Earth.. 🤦♀️ It's a strange experience.
Hi,
Group 2 member here.
Fortunately, my wife and I have the luxury if encountering the "it's not a thing" crowd of saying. "Thanks for your feedback" and moving on.
As a public figure and professional in the field, when attending some formal event or conference, you don't have that luxury.
I suspect in some situations you KNOW you have a target on your back.
Never forget how incredibly helpful you have been to SO MANY. Your channel may have saved my marriage, family, sanity. We, I'm the scapegoat of FOO, are thriving, and the knowledge and compassion we've gleaned from your channel is a MASSIVE part of being able to break through that toxic generational stranglehold.
Please never stop.
We know that, credentialed and prominent as you are, you can't escape those who, possibly earnestly, possibly out of envy or need to be contrarian, possibly out of earnest differences on definition of key terms, take you to task. It must be exhausting.
Please never stop.
Think of it like the end of "It's a Wonderful life". Remember, whenever a bell rang, an angel got its wings.
Instead... Think this ...
Whenever you suffer the unavoidable and public slings and arrows... A sufferer of narcissistic generational abuse breaks the pattern.
You must have suffered a sling and arrow about a year ago. I was two years into a TOTAL family communal betrayal and discard, complete with unfathomable court papers, etc
In that day a year ago, I was the one who "got my wings". from Dr. Ramani.
It all finally clicked. The epiphany and truth was complete in our eyes, and there wasn't a church in sight.
Just an outstanding and gifted professional reaching a million plus with a VERY necessary message.
Please never stop.
From very very deep in my heart, and on behalf of my marvelous 💕 and empathetic wife and child, and extremely understanding family dog.
Thank you
The doubters enablers and toxic positivity peeps who say ‘be the bigger person and take the high road’ and ‘there’s two sides to every story’ and ‘they can change if we love them lots’ or ‘be positive and manifest good things’ drive me bonkers. I know they care but they don’t realize how hurtful and damaging their thoughtless words can be. I keep my boundaries and disengage with discernment. So grateful for this community. Taking myself back piece by piece. Staying strong in my truth. 💪🏼 Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
One thing I like about you is your feistiness. As a fellow feisty person, I appreciate that trait (when necessary).
Hi Dr. Ramini. Thank you again for your insight. I like to lump together a group of people that just don't get it for whatever reason, ignorance, denial or fear of their fairytale world falling apart. I admit to the latter. I like to remember that empathy is a gift that must be balanced with discernment. I learned the hard way that not everyone deserves or has earned my trust. Everyone in the world is not like me. There are givers and there are takers. I'm a giver. So I have to discern who the takers are.
Thanks Dr. Ramini💕
You get the name wrong.
It can be overwhelming at first, but once you understand it, it becomes easier to grasp. I had to learn that my opinions and thoughts are important, even if I don't have proof to back them up. I belong to group 2 and have been married for 30 years, but I still feel the need to express myself. aware, but nope! Now I see it all like a movie!
The second subgroup sounds like the people in the Barbie movie.
I’m so grateful to have moved from #4 to #2. It’s not easy but it’s the only way to sanity.
I’ve endured the pain of these “friends” that couldn’t and didn’t want to get it. And yes, I often see in them their own dysfunction that they don’t want to see. Being the scapegoat as well as the fixer has been weird. Now I’m not so much of either anymore and I’ve finally getting a better at having better discernment. It’s been such a long long road but the best one.
Thank you for your work.
Once again it’s very important to recognize and “manage our expectations”
It always amazes me how these people talk and devalue.Its the new twighlight zone, and they are stuck in that role😊
Dr Ramani I pray for you. After 30 years, you taught me the evil i endured with narcissist Melford Edgar Morris and his adulteress, the flying monkeys, the smear campaign. You are here to help. God bless you . Continued success and God be your fortress Psalm 91 and 118🙏❤️🇯🇲👑👍
Babezzz... when Dr. R passes there will be thousands to carry her torch 🔥🔥🔥 we already are
Right?! We have her back!
Melford Edgar Morris
the name itself sounds sinister.
Right on for naming the ba$tard! This is good. You are moving beyond fear❤
Thank you Dr. Ramini! Thank YOU for taking a stand against those who literally deny the reality of these situations. When you are being abused in more ways than one (& when it doesn’t show up as bruising or cuts), and YOU are telling the truth, but the abusive manipulator is being validated by people in mental health and/or leadership positions, life is COMPLETELY disorienting. Thank you for speaking out! Thank you for shedding light on these patterns that are actually going on! When you put out a new video (most recently the hug video) you often blow my mind. Like, oh my GOSH! That’s a thing!? My gut was right… Survivors, you are not alone. We can learn to cope. We can learn to communicate effectively. We can source energy from each other and make ripple effects for change! 💗💕
I must say that I have very few friends. Most of the people I was close to seemed to support the narcissist. I don't give the human race much of a chance of a future. And really when I look at most of the suffering and wars and crap, I see forms if narcissism at the core. Look at terrorists etc etc. Of course I've had my own issues. My own factors that made me vulnerable. Not just to shared fantasy but also to not choosing good friends.
What an incredible breakdown. So spot on! Great advice at the end too. You've been a huge help in my healing journey. I didn't understand so very much when I first started down this road but you've made a huge difference and have helped me understand and heal. You're so right about the betrayal and the grief. So much grief. Much love and thanks.
My best friends told me:
„You have to lower your expectations. He is from a small town, he is newly outed and has just moved. This is all too much for him. You have been single for far too long. Why don’t you just relax and stop looking for faults“
The most horrific things happened to me while they were saying all of that!
I can’t imagine the perpetual torture that some victims of narcissistic abuse that fail to accept their situation for what it is, and educate and empower themselves through knowledge of the type of abuse suffered, and or how to heal from it must suffer. There is nothing blissful about choosing to stay ignorant. I believe the self-denial of your own experience will be more harmful than the past abusive experience as it keeps you in a continuous state of being a supply for future narcs that you encounter- and that is a scary thought.
I'm on my spiritual healing journey and was hoping to share it with my adult children, but I have noticed that they continue with the narcissist behavior and are not supportive. My family suffers generational narcissism. My mom's father was a narcissist, mom was narcissist, I'm the scapegoat, and I had two beautiful children who adore their grandmother. I guess they are flying monkeys. I appreciate your videos very much. Thank you ❤
Once, having messed up picking up my mother's medication, I went to the pharmacy to beg a couple of pills, while the prescription came through. My anxiety about my mother's reaction to my "failure" was obvious. "Oh," said the pharmacist she's a lovely, little old lady (as in you don't need to have this worry about her response). At this the assistant (who had seemed to "get me") rounded on him and said with strong emphasis, "YOU, have never been on the receiving end!" Clearly she had. It was an important moment of validation for me. Fascinating who the vulnerable narcissist decides to "pick on".
Group 2 Representative here. I've been invalidated my entire life, being raised in a narc family. Full circle: I now recognize my adult daughter as narc and have been discarded by her as our realities clash, So very sad for us Group 2 Representatives - the color of my life has dulled and I am now working to brighten it up again. Blessings to us Group 2 members❤
Thank you, thank you, thank you Dr.Ramani!!! This was a much needed video. I was born into this toxicity. My mother was covert/borderline. Father Codependent. As confusing growing up was...I finally got out, 5 decades later. Grateful to be healing and unlearning much of the damage. Since being out, I've experienced each group you've mentioned. It is so important to understand that most people will only understand this to their perception. That's ok. Your truth is your truth. That's what matters most ❤
The father of my son is completely trapped by his deeply narcissistic mother. He's under heavy medication and for a time many years ago he became really scary. Having as he does quite a few narcissistic traits himself, he snapped during that time, it's difficult to explain.
Nowadays he is aware his mother is a narcissist, but he does nothing about it because the concept of a mother not loving her son is too painful for him. That's what he tells me. He prefers to not fight for himself and let her abuse him.
It's not in my hands to solve it and I'm not even trying. Of course it's damaging for my son to see his father like this, but the narcissists in the current household are enough for us to deal with.
❤thank you ❤truly we are all lucky to have you for this life changing education and insight
A psychologist who doesn't believe narcissistic abuse and gaslighting are a thing?😲😲😲 Sounds like he/she (probably a he) must be the narcissist and gaslighter in the group. Stay strong, Dr. Ramani.♥
It's really difficult to accept that some friends & members from my family
of origin continue to have contact with malignant ex Narrcissist & knowing exactly the degree of suffering, violence, cheating that I & my children experienced I find shocking & very hurt as to how easily t
hey do that
I am so grateful for your supportive daily videos and from members from this community who share similar experiences
Thank you Dr.Ramini
I'm starting therapy, because I have no one to talk to about the horrible experience I went through with a close friend. I believe she is a covert narcisist, but I'm not a doctor... Let's just say my experience with her was up one minute, down the next. It was a very contentious relationship. Long story short...after each falling out, she'd tell my secrets, and it would cause people to turn against me ...I feel so foolish!! But would keep forgiving her... It has been a year since I've spoken to her. I have finally decided to walk away. Feeling more at peace now....but no close friends ..afraid & lost trust
A loud shout out of amen to every word. Spoken in truth. I recently separated from my covert narc wife after 44 years and no one in our circle of friends or family want to hear my side. So I cut all ties with them. If anyone is not willing to even listen to my silent suffering they are no longer in my inner circle. I only share my life with truth seekers. For years my bipolar challenges have been used as a gaslighting mask for her to hide behind. The past 8 months of freedom to live on my own has been traumatic and extremely blissful at the same time. Even though I remain married I’m never going back to experiencing trauma bonding 4 to 6 times per day. Her love bombing and breadcrumbing has gone into overdrive and I find it laughable. She has shape shifted from bully to victim and all her deceived supporters are buying her lies hook line and sinker. Get out whilst you can. Your mental health is calling out to you to save yourself. 😢
When I think I've heard the best episode, then another one comes along and blows me out of the water. I was listening to this while puttering around, then I realized I had to go back to the beginning and sit down to take notes. You have explained so much, so well, I can feel the freedom! Painful freedom, but freedom none the less. I have always understood my daughter to be type number 4. She cannot hear the truth about her daddy because she's clinging to her fantasy and her hope. That fantasy and hope was the very thing that kept me in the relationship with him for decades. Thank you Dr. Ramani. ❤
The hardest ones I encountered were the ones, usually professionals, who blamed me entirety for the abuser's behavior. They criticized me harshly for marrying and allowing someone to hurt me. I would feel humiliated beyond words and I was already in place of low esteem where I later learned that the narcissist wanted me to be for control. After so many years of Jekyll and Hyde it occurred to me thst I couldn’t make amends in marriage because he didn’t want that at all. He wanted me to be constantly on edge.
I could never really understand what i was going through when I was in the relationship but I knew it was really bad and my life was Hell with fleeting moments of bliss. I learned what it was from you. I've finally gotten away and have a lot of pieces to pick up, but at least i can move forward now and remember who I was.
Thanks Dr Ramani, you have helped me, and presumably lots of other people, so much. So glad you are raising awareness of narcissism, and the toll it has on individual and social health and well-being.
My mother (80) is in that last group. Screwed up by her own antagonistic mother, screwed up big time by my narcissistic father, but she is in full denial. If I say anything I am being "mean." She is both a victim and an enabler. So sad, by her enabling my father she pushes me away and I am the only person in the family who (thanks to Dr Ramani!!) understands what is going on... It's heartbreaking, like watching a dear one who is addicted. You can do nothing.
Great video. I love this kind of breakdown mostly because I still function out of a very innocent and young version of myself that can't seem to wrap my head around why others can't seem to be present with my experiences, the way I think I am with theirs
My sister definitely falls into group 4. She knows of the abuse I have encountered and is empathetic but she does not see that she has reacted strongly (more than myself) to the narcissist abuse in our family. She is slightly aware of her reactions but it’s like she doesn’t want to admit how much it has affected her life and the choices she’s made. I’ve listened to her experiences with the narcissists and now that I know about narcissism, I wish she would reach out for professional help.
Thank you to Dr. Ramani and all the folks here who have been offering support and understanding to those of us who are healing and learning. It is a Godsend to find a channel like this, and realize that there is a community somewhere out there where you can be heard and understood by empaths. God bless us all.
I really appreciate your channel, I have seen very few people that decipher all components as good as you, thank you
I recently returned to my neighborhood of 15 years. My neighbors are now in their 80ties and 90ties. The husband I always knew was a covert, communal narcissist, what I didn't know was just how abusive he was to her until I shared space with them. It was AWFUL. She shook and coalesced to his demands, the coercive control nauseating. Having said this, she is in group 4, a loving, decent, kind and intelligent 80 year old having never been free herself, makes excuses for and stoutly defends narcissistic leaders having never faced her own abuse.
Thank you for devoting your career to group 2 people. I am in group 2, 24 yrs with a narcissist and I’m so beaten down and exhausted and mentally unwell.
As far as group 3 I attempt to identify the person and either keep my thoughts to myself or pull back from the conversation. I avoid more pain and invalidation that way. I sometime dont even attempt to engage and explain. Surface level convos with them instead.
I’m choosing to not allow myself to interact with anyone regarding what I’m going through. I met a wonderful person just recently who went through a horrible experience with a narcissistic partner and I feel for him. I wasn’t expecting him to open up to me about his past, we ended up validating what happened to each other. He has a better life now. 🥰I’m hoping that we can become friends. I think he has a better boyfriend now ❤
You are the best ❤ You "get it" in such detail it's amazing. Thank you!
Even therapists, as you indicate, don't seem to acknowledge abuse...even physical abuse. And you are also right about whole narcissist- prone industries. I'm a professor, and my world is rife with them.
Thank you, this makes so much sense!
And when one start to get back into some sort of own inner voice, they cant stand it, and bulldoze themselves, over every boundary, they cant stand when we start to stand up for ourselves, and our inner values again. To find balance from within, without dancing after some angry/aso, persons pipe. Takes some time. Which we all need to heal more.
Some will never see it for what it is.
Met therapists, who just lay all fault on the one who says something about it, or how it was to live with this, its not an individual "problem" its a terrible state to live "under".
Not typing a lot of babble, since I've been watching the Dr's videos, I understand more, of what a true narcissist is.
I always thought it was simply a man/woman who stand in front of the mirror, and gaze at themselves, every chance they get.
I am in group 2. Your videos are brilliant. I’ve had lots of therapy and you are saying the things that help the most. I love your direct clear thorough information. 💪🏻♥️💪🏻
Hi Dr Ramani- thank you for all that you do. I've had runs ins with 4 narcs in my life- one was a 15 yr 'friendship' that I ended after i realised what the hell was going on. Once, I saw the Narcissism, It changes YOUR WHOLE VIEW on things. I've had to tangle with 3 more Narcs in recent years- and have gotten really good at reading their energy over their words. And sadly- Ive had to leave a Marriage as well as a great working relationship of 14yrs with a company that I trusted- because of two different Narcs. - Only ONE person in that company believes what i have to say about the Narc. And as for my Marriage- my ex reacts angrily at me whenever I talk about the Narc she is in a 30yr trauma bond with. Everyone else, has done the expected- minimised, been angry at me for raising concerns and/or flat out covered up the abuse and not believed me. It is heartbreaking to say the least. Sadly, there are only 4 people in my life that trust me. Happily, though -the forth person, is myself. Love from Australia.
Thanks a lot for this. I begin to doubt about how many people I don't engage much, or at all with. As a survivor of narc family and relationships, it's a long road of recovery. But I sure seem to benefit by giving wide space to doubters and the very widest to the narcs! Time for peace of mind and soul ❤❤
On point Dr. Ramani! I have members in my family in the #3 class B who remind me that I am not a clinician, doctor, etc... even though they are close enough to see my Narc husband in action. He checks off the boxes if a behavioral test was given by means of observation and interaction with them and his interaction with me. Crazy, though, it may actually call into accountability for them to speak on it or make changes. Somewhere transactions are being made for their benefit. And the probability is high, that they just don't want to get involved because they think it is not their problem and it is none of their business.
Thank you so much for this video. It's the perfect time! Today I saw my therapist and talked for the first time about my "covert narcissist" ex girlfriend of 12 years (I live with her and I don't yet have a job) and she enabled my experience saying a lot of people come into my office saying they have a narcissistic people in their life. I understand that I can't label her officially a narcissist and it was not my point but my therapist enabled my experience and didn't ask me anything about it. She also said maybe the people that tell you directly something are more genuine. She understood nothing of what i said. I understand now, I will talk to her about my problems without saying the cause of them. I will journal hoping it will be enough for now. Thank you Dr. Ramani ❤ I'm healing thanks to you
Group 3, if they had very good parents, they developed a secure attachment, an alignment where good behavior was familiar. It could be that group 3 people, subsconsciously distance themselves from insecure narcissistic people, minimizing interactions with them, but not fully conscious that they are selecting these people out, likewise, insecure attachment styles do the opposite, and feel attracted to other insecure styles, and uncomfortable getting close to secure styles.
Thank you for bringing all this up, Dr. Ramani. I've experienced the whole gamut, so far: close friends who've personally experienced it, KNOW I'm not exaggerating and are protective of me; ex in-laws who know and avoid him too; ex in-laws who are defending him to me and dismissing how bad it is; ex in-laws and ex-friends whom he's poisoned against me and know ME to be the evil one. You learn quickly who to avoid and who to cherish.
I love your messages because they are SO. VALIDATING. This group breakdown (& hi, i'm in group #2) seems REALLY accurate.
I wondered if group4 gains membership from ex-members of groups 3a & 3b. What all 3 of these groups seem to have, like you said, is the tendency towards holding onto they fallacy of, "This isn't my reality, therefore I've not done anything to bring such misfortune on myself." I think upon these folks VERY ruefully because it is only a factor of Time, or someone from group1 flexing new narc muscles, before they start falling into group2.
Healing is a life long journey, wish I'd watched this at the start but I definitely learnt from experience! Agree with every word of this, thanks Dr Ramani :)
My brother who is two years older than I am, is in deep denial about our mother. He cannot face the fact that she hated him and, in turn, he hates her. Instead, like the”good” Christian he is, he forgives her. I call BFS on this.
Watching your videos have really helped me in healing. I was in back to back familial and “friend” narc relationships. So I have a LONG way to go, but I really am starting to get a handle on learning myself and enjoying myself.
Good stuff to hear. It's so good to talk about. It's nice to know that we're not crazy. Thankyou
DR. RAMANI,
YOU’RE THE BEST!
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
You still save my life. Dr Ramani. Thank you so much. I am now 5 months out and I feel the transformation is doing its work now ... Thanks to the Universe or God or Whatever ...