[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Back Scatter
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- Download Opera GX here: mtchm.de/66hj5
Have you ever looked at a weapon and wondered "How am I even supposed to use this piece of shit?" You shouldn't for this weapon. It tells you exactly how to use it.
Take a shot every time I say "Flank" or "Any other scattergun/Scout primary."
Rebalance Servers: badweaponrehab.tf/
Twitter: / fsoas_
Patreon: / fishstickonastick
Main Channel: / @fishstickonastick
Discord - / discord
Music used: DMC 5 - Devil Trigger
Doom Eternal - The Only Thing They Fear Is You
TF2 OST - Magnum Force
Ratchet and Clank OST - Novalis, Metropolis, Eudora, Umbris
Oahu Beach Stroll - • Oahu Beach Stroll - n...
Clips used:
Jerma985 - Scout Backstabber Gun
American Psycho
Timestamps:
0:00 Sponsor
1:35 Introduction
2:35 Stats Breakdown
3:19 Just Flank
4:48 "But You Can One Shot Light Classes (Snipers)"
8:17 Lack Of Impact
10:18 The Back Scatter Is Pointless
12:50 Not Terrible, Not Terrific
13:55 What Did You Expect
15:33 MvM
16:00 Potential Fixes And Conclusion
17:28 Credits
18:29 Bonus Clip - Ігри
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Sandman](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cWkZP-V2oEw/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Sandman](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Candy Cane](/img/n.gif)
Download Opera GX here: mtchm.de/66hj5
The worlds first gaming browser lmao
no
*Gaming Yahoo*
Promotion Skip Button: 1:36
Glad you're getting paid for your work, but no only no, but hell the fuck naw.
You know a weapon is bad when the hard counter is to just look at the guy using it.
spy bad
True
Hello
*Sad Spy noises*
Yes
It's kinda comical that the Back Scatter has this big drum mag but can only hold 4 rounds.
2 shells in either side of the mag
And I thought the panic attack was weird
Demoman is kinda worse on that point but still true.
Plus, it's in a ♾ shape, so that should grant it infinite ammo. MGS3's Patriot has taught me nothing.
Backscatter is a obvious candidate for a Airstrike like "killing foes increases magazine size by 1, up to a max of 4" meaning 8 shot Backscatter. This makes it more intersting and less boring to use.
Panic attack could actually use the Drum Mag for a 12 shot mode but you are locked to using the PA until the mag is empty.
Demoman, make the stock nade launcher have the ability to load two more shots, make the lochnload have two shot again. the Sticky bomb launchers need either a Johnson 1941 like side loader or open up the mag to the side and load the stickies into it there.
edit: removed extra word and fixed a typo.
“You’re _never_ going to get behind an engineer”
-He says over footage of him getting behind an engineer
you are a fake
The Dr Brights are spies!
“You’re never going to get behind an engineer safely”
-he says over footage of him getting behind an engineer and getting obliterated
@@chair803 That's a separate clip from the one I'm referencing.
@@purplehaze2358 my mistake, when I had read this comment I had very conveniently just seen the part I am quoting
Fun fact: a 20% increase in spread radius is equivalent to a 31% decrease in accuracy.
Can I see those calculations boss
@@ryanhernandez8324 probably 1-(1^2*pi)/(1.2^2*pi) which is 30.56%
@@spikycode4823 Hmm... Incredible, thanks!
why 31, out of every number?
@@denekhesab.2527rounding exists
Scout’s equipping the back-scatter: “I am the spy here!”
That Scout is a bloody Spy!
rework concept: makes you invisible for sentries when held, deals no dmg to buildings. Would enhance both engineer and scout experience by a new matchup
Heavy: scout stop trying to using that weapon to be more like your dad.
@@antonikudlicki1100 wouldn't it then just be a "fuck engineers" weapon?
-And then they die…
…Just like the Spy!
back weapon academy
also the Back Scatter just generally suffers from the fact that it has a relatively niche upside with VERY noticeable downsides. You don't always feel that a mini crit saved you or guaranteed a kill, but you always feel the *dogshit* accuracy and reduced clip size. As much as I like using it to mess around with it and one shot Snipers with god tier aim and braindead awareness, a Scattergun also nearly guarantees the kill if you have the flank.
The accuracy penalty really cripples the only upside. I’ve shot so many backs only to deal 10 damage.
I use it with fish and milk, so im a memelord(soundsmith wannabe)
Back in the day I remember it felt more accurate. Really feels like it should have that
@@LordVader1094
I'm not sure if one is rewarded slightly if you have terrible aim, because instead of missing, you can at least get chip damage.
With mini-crits, no falloff is often as impactful as the extra damage. The wider spread completely eliminates this upside.
One thing that always confused me about this gun is it's design. It's stats make it so it has a reduce ammo capacity but visually IT LITERALLY HAS 2 DRUM MAGS CONNECTED TO IT I DON'T UNDERSTAND?! Like if this gun is supposed to encourage a flank play style specifically, why don't you give it the same stats the old Panic Attack had were you could load all your shots and then unload them all. You'd obliterate a single target with incredibly high dps and it encourages it's actual design because it HAS 2 DRUM MAGS CONNECTED TO IT?!
You did it. You made the backscatter not boring.
@@galacticgamer6635 your welcome- it's just the design makes no sense and from the very limited time I got to use the old Panic attack I feel like those stats would be more beneficial, hell if you wanna balance it you could make it that the reload takes awhile so in order to effectively use this idea of mine it'll be best for single targets. Load all your shots, charge into battle with your speedy legs and jumping ability fucking murder the medic and dip or just die cause usually such an act makes you the biggest target in existence but at least then the design would be supported with the stats and it would encourage a different play style that I suppose is more nooby? Really good scouts use the scattergun cause it's just genuinely superior to every other gun he has but If you suck like me at least then I can charge my gun and have a chance in killing a important target. Plus the idea also seems fun imagine watching 3 or more scouts with a full charge running towards a heavy. He would be absolutely obliterated
@@SamuLie It would be an amazing meme strategy. Squad of scouts one-shotting a specific guy then all dying immediately afterwards.
@BradynLee09 no
A small burst of shotgun blasts similar to a 3 round burst from a rifle/pistol, mini-crits when behind, and maybe a tight spread and low individual pellet damage so it can just barely kill heavies from behind with perfect aim, and it might just work
Edit: spelling
Here's my idea of a rework:
When you get a kill, the gun automatically unequips itself and you are left with stock scattergun for the rest of that life.
why
I actually want a real rework of it being useful
@@renozz1308 same
@@renozz1308 That would require a complete weapon rework or just completely delete it.
@@renozz1308 Critical hits from behind, 25% damage penalty, 15% explosive damage vulnerability
“The narrative going around is that sniper players are robots”
Me, playing on VAC servers: “you mean there are snipers who aren’t?”
@G- -stef are you God? Why did you bless us?
@@azrieldawson7377 lol
After playing on Valve servers for Halloween earlier this year, I can easily say that hearing "You Spin Me Right Round" now triggers me when seeing whirling sniper aimbots who would also copy the names of other players and instantly votekick them.
Don't mind fish, he's a sniper main.
@@FelipeJaquez Always remember kids, if you use the thing people complain about and disagree, your opinion isn't valid.
Back Scatter so far just seems like Spy bringing Scout to work and teaching him how to fight like a Spy. Scout just changes things to do it his way.
and dissapoints his father by not even doing it well XD
@@racker6081 like father like son ?
@@vivelespatat2670 yes but actually no
More like the opposite effect. Scout tries too hard to impress his father with this thing, ending up as a disappointment.
“Spy, Spy look I tried your way, I prefer to get random crits. Okay?” “Jeremy...what the hell is a random crit?” “...”
How to fix the Backscatter: full crits instead of mini-crits. If your weapon is only going to do one thing, make it exceptional at it.
I feel like that would make the spy kind of obsolete though. You're basically giving the scout the ability to do what the spy can do except from a range and much more easily because flanking with the scout is effortless and relatively low risk due to his mobility.
@@degiguess scout already makes spy obsolete.
Sniper makes them both obsolete.
@@TheMuffinman191 Scout and Spy fill different roles. Spy is better at disabling the enemy team to prevent pushes or setup his own team for pushes. Scout is better for general harassment. Sniper does make Spy obsolete because he's poorly designed but I wouldn't say he makes Scout obsolete since Scout is still better at covering the flanks where the sniper would normally have blind spots.
@@degiguess Disagree on that assessment. Spy will not stop a push made by people who turn around. At best he picks off stragglers on the edges of the fight and occasionally he can get into a better position to kill the enemy sniper. Scout in those same situations will do even better considering he does more dps with his ranged hitscan shotgun. Getting spy into these positions is a little easier, but 100% easily shit down by a flank pyro.
@@TheMuffinman191 people don't often turn around when they're actively pushing. If you know when to go for the backstab you can get them way more reliably than you'd think. Spy can actually cripple pushes pretty reliably if you have the game sense for it. He's an underpowered class but he has his strengths nonetheless.
BFB: here's an entire set you can use that allows you to have a high skill ceiling playstyle and become a nightmare to deal with
Shortstop: This weapon can be used with a variety of builds depending on what role you want to take as scout but encourages a specific playstyle.
Backscatter: flank
backscatter: i am ze (bad) spy.
*enemy turns around
nonono- AAAAAAAAA
flanquè
Stock: really good, probably the best
Soda popper: HERE WE GO OFF THE RAILS DON'T YOU KNOW IT'S TIME TO RAISE OUR SAILS
@@cristinagomez3283 it's freedom like you never knew
@@cristinagomez3283 FaN: I'm the Soda Popper with fundamental differences!
This weapon could be compared to the Backburner, which also deals more damage from behind. Except the Backburner's upside is better while its downside is situational, unlike the Back Scatter, which has a constant downside and a situational upside.
Bleh, the back burner is alright for that one purpose, but I haaaaate the air blast penalty. It’s like that i between of the phlog and stock where it excels at nothing.
@@azrieldawson7377 I love the Backburner for this. It encourages a playstyle but it doesn't force it upon you. You're supposed to flank (which is not that easy) and get insanely rewarded. But if you run across situations where you need to airblast, you can still safe your ass. That's how good and balanced weapondesing looks. Unlike the Phlog which forces you to go W+M1 making you either totally overpowered or underpowered.
@Markus Lorence it’s balanced, but it’s really too situational for me to use. It’s like, I’m either focused on doing quick high damage in close range as Pyro or I’m defending chokes and teammates with air blast and home wrecker. Many maps don’t have many areas to really flank properly as Pyro and that’s pretty much what hurts it for me. Payload is often the best mode I’ve found for it and Phlog’s major problem imo is the fact that you can be übered with phlog activated and it charges with the stupid Scorch Shot. I’m a big fan of airbasting stuff, so I never really use either...rarely play Pyro either though tbh.
the backburner's great for enemies trying to retreat since they just get gibbed. That doesn't work with scout because he fires in discrete intervals (not continuously) and nobody's going to try to run away from a scout once they're engaged (you can't).
Also the airblast penalty can helpful in a handicap way, as it means you can’t spam airblast and go w+m2. It teaches you to be more careful with airblast in a tough love way
I'm amazed more people voted for the Back Scatter than the SOAS. That thing is so incredibly situational and terrible that I often forget it's even in the game.
Yet the Sandman is worse than them.
The fire resistance can come in handy sometimes.
What's the SOAS? I've been playing for about 200 hours but I don't know all of the weapons in the game soooooooooooooooooooooooooo pls tell me.
@@britishaxolotl Sun On A Stick
+While active : 25% fire damage resistance, guaranteed critical hits on burning players
-25% less damage on non burning players
Mostly for countering afterburn
@@britishaxolotl Sun on a Stick. It's exactly how you imagine it, except it's the weakest sun in history.
"I think the only reason people like it, is the mini-crit sound and the slightly bigger numbers give stheir brains that tiniest dopamine rush."
As someone with 2310 kills on my Strange Back Scatter. This is precisely why. It's just pure fun to use for me!
I use it because of the firing sound
you fucking masochist or the word people use for someone that likes to torture himself
My first time using it I was shooting from the side of the enemy and the bigger spread made it barely hit the back and instantly kill the enemy
I think it could be a great with just a simple buff: 200% ramp-up instead of the normal 175%. You'd deal 120 with a meatshot if they're facing you and 162 damage from behind. Suddenly the weapon is great for medic and heavy picks all while not becoming a complete downgrade the moment somebody turns around
This is perfect
Tf2s interpretation of what "behind" is so weird that this weapon feels inconsistent.
The mean "back" for backscatter only 90° behind your enemy, lesser than spy with 180°. Thats why it feels so inconsistent because of how small your window opportunity for dealing mini-crit damage
And idk why they not make it more bigger radius like 120° or heck make it same as spy 180° so it feels not-to-literally behind someone. Its not like you can chain infinitely your kill because that clip size
Welcome to spy! Now suffer.
Lazypurple has a good interpretation of "IS THIS YOUR BACK?" in Extras of how it feels to play pyro where he couldnt do crits until the enemy was dead
46 years ago? Sounds right to me, Jerma is truly an insane 50 year old man
Jermas been playing tf2 since he was 4
I still question why they put an MG 34 double drum on an old western-style lever-action repeater, and decided that the stats should make it a stealth weapon.
Having it be a pseudo-machinegun would‘ve been better.
It has 50% better accuracy, but the pellets are fired one at a time with a 0.08 second delay between each.
You could keep your distance but would have to get good at tracking.
Could be useful against sentries when you don‘t have a pistol.
Would also make slightly more sense that it being a 4-shot shotgun.
Maybe just change the back scatter to marked for death if you hit a person in the back, rewarding the flank and allowing your next shots to minicrit, would make the reward much higher and also help your team, allowing you to easily ambush any class besides heavy I suppose.
Only problem is that would remove fan o wars purpose but meh its all I can think of.
I don't know what i think of that balence change. Ppl already think the fan o war is painfly meh and this balence change makes it complty usles in mvm
@@lootbox1157 no it wouldnt because damage scout is a legitimately good strategy
How about giving scout a projectile included in his primary?
Here's my rework:
-33% clip size
-10% dmg per pellet
-mini crits when hitting enemy back
Upon killing from behind, gain 1 scatterbomb(Maximum of 3)
Upon right click, consume 6 reserve ammo and throw an explosive that deals 60-72 dmg with large falloff after 40%. After that it will ignite those for 4 seconds.
@@dylannguyen7910 Jesus, that sounds crazy
@@susragejr477 yeah, but fun
The Back Scatter is the inverse of LazyPurple's "Come to think of it, wouldn't most classes be better if the enemy had their back turned?"
How is it the inverse? Wouldn't it be the prime example?
Nuclear Potato He likes using words he doesn't understand
@@nuclearpotato4073 SnivyTries to sound smart
H a m b u r g e r
@@castlecrashed7700 damn
The moment when FishStickOnAStick recommends The Shortstop over the backscatter is when you realize that the backscatter is redundant
The reload of the shortstop screws with me too much to a point where I do better with backscatter because sometimes I’ll think I reloaded and go to fire two shots and then I’m out after the first shot and I get killed during the animation
I wonder if movement speed on a successful back hit could be interesting, would make it a really good dueling weapon but worse at normal fights.
Big Earner for Scout sounds hilarious
How would that be good for a 1v1 fight?
You're already behind an enemy, you're landing at least 2 shots before they turn... which means you've already won the fight.
That’s literally the Baby Face’s Blaster but bad but sometimes good.
The change in movement speed would be more likely to fuck up your aim.
I think the backscatter would benefit from a phlog-like charge meter where you deal damage, and then when it's full you get full crits on the back, or mini crits everywhere, or something to that effect. I know the crit-a-cola does the latter, but I'm just trying to think of anything good for this thing.
That's just the old soda popper
10:07 he didnt used the backscatter so much that he got an achivement about it
Watching you get that kill streak with the back scatter is the only enjoyment that has 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳 come out of this weapon.
Respect for getting 19 mins out of this utterly dull item. Looking forward to the baseball-bat Natascha-knockoff video, good work Fish!
This thing is awesome for playing really sneaky
Backscatter is great
More than 19 minutes, he did a stream dedicated to it, and the force a nature.
@@clipso9061 so spy with extra steps
@@Utter_Disc spout
One minor thing to mention that I noticed... the bigger spread, while being a downside, can actually help you hit shots more often if you are bad at aiming. Of course the solution there is to get better at aiming, but ya know... easier said than done
Honestly if you made it have a TIGHTER spread instead of a wider one, I feel like the weapon would be perfect. 2 shots is already a lot to give up for scout so having it be at least a little better by having a tighter spread would be the best/only thing they could do for the weapon
what pisses me off the most is the noticeably two extended ammo drums which apparently only holds 2 shells each
Technically, they hold all of Scout's reserve ammo.
He's just working the lever to reload, he doesn't actually put in any new shells.
You would think a gun with 2 ammo drums would have a +66% clip size
@@potatoslayer69420 You would, yes.
0:00 Sponsor
1:35 Starting Clip
1:43 Intro
2:35 Stat Analysis
4:48 Yooo The Mini-Crits!!!
6:41 The Back-Scatter is WORTHLESS
8:35 Jerma Sums Up The Whole Weapon
8:45 (Cont.) The Back-Scatter is WORTHLESS
9:44 Must. Flank. Always.
10:33 Just Use Something Else
12:54 It's Just Dull
13:55 Fish Has A Mental Breakdown And It's Your Fault
15:22 MvM
16:00 """Rebalance""" """Ideas"""
16:35 Conclusion
17:28 Outro
18:29 Ending Clip
sorry for asking for back scatter too much, heres the timestamps
edit - fish added his own timestamps anyway, gee i love wasting my time
Why do this there's the chapters already there
@@badasscrusader there were no chapters when he wrote this comment
@@mysoncrumphaseveryinjury3853 fair enough,I doubt it but ok
5:48 „you’re never going to get behind an engineer“ *is behind engineer*
The only reason i have ever heard to use this weapon, is to literally nerf yourself to force you to have to get good at aiming with a scattergun, and then switching to anything else. In other words, use this to "train", and once you can reliably do something decent with this weapon, switch to anything else to get much better results.
I watched the stream of getting the footage this man was broken because of it. Thank you for sacrificing your sanity for our enjoyment.
I don't know if it was worth it, purely for his sake...
Like, I genuinely feel bad for him...
@@some_goomba for that reason this was the most depressing BWA so far. You can physically feel his infirmity to make this thing worth using at all.
The Back Scatter's design is especially confusing when you remember the existence of the Back Burner. Like, they already made a balanced flanking-from-behind side-grade for Pyro, so why'd they have so much trouble doing the same for Scout?
See, I feel like the mindset is based on the classes movement capabilities. Scout can jump around people easily, while pyro is pretty slow and has few mobility options that would work well with the Backburner. I think the Backscatter was supposed to give less reward as it's easier to use
@@user-bo6vy5eg8g Give a lot of “Bad” weapons to scout and the game gets insane. Holiday punch, Warrior’s spirit, KGB, Third degree, sharpened Volcano fragment, Equalizer, All would be great if scout could use them.
@@Skullhawk13 Oh yeah, scout is the most capable of getting out of control with his movement capabilites. A Third Degree Scout could ambush a medic, kill him and cut the heavy he was healing down to half health for an easy kill. Or using the equalizer to wipe light classes from the face of the earth. I had the chance to join in a youtuber's event a while back where any class could use any weapon. The meta became Phlog and Direct Hit scouts. I much preferred Sniper-spy and Heavyknight, but the whole thing proved Scout was the most likely to become out of control OP
@@user-bo6vy5eg8g Reminds of another game with a speedy terror, made in heaven. Unlike scout it does little DMG, but the speed is so good you can barely ever hit the player. Now if that had some of the high DMG tools...oh boy.
Scout's built to flank,Pyro isn't.
I would like to see a silly buff like +100 pellets +71% spread -34% damage (per pellet) -3 reload clip size .
Basically shots two weaker stock scatter shots but with times 3 spread area .
This probably won't be seen, but I have an idea for the back scatter, this is experimental but it would be cool, the idea is when you killed someone by shooting them in the back it gave you a small speed boost to either get away or close in on the next target. That and removing one of the downsides would make it more fun and interesting.
On that poll a while ago, I was astounded everyone chose the backscatter. The theoretical sandman or sun on a stick episode would've been far more interesting. How could you possibly make the sandman a good tool after it was old yeller'd (deservedly) by Valve, and I would've loved to see you be rightfully miffed that the with the damage penalty on top of scout's stock bat doing less damage than other melees, the SoaS crits only does 79 damage (a whopping 14 more damage than other classes' stock melees). But for some reason, people really like the back scatter. I kinda forgot this weapon existed, honestly.
I assume it's either beacuse they wanted to test FSOAS or just thought "But you can 1 shot these eeeeeeviiiil Snipers so it must be great!"
the soas isnt a bad weapon though. It’s fire resistance can save you from afterburn. Everyone only focuses on the critting burning player part, but that is indeed useless.
Sandman should add where it will mark players through walls or something and do more damage at full range or something...as if anyone will make changes to this game anymore lol
@@stroopwafelenjoyer just use the mad milk if you dont want after burn. Also your speed can get you access to med packs, the respawn room, or dispensers much quicker than other classes. There’s also the candy cane which give you mini med packs after a kill and the pretty boy’s pocket pistol which can you heal you every shot you hit. These options cover the SOAS upside of afterburn resistance while also having other benefits
@@Ekoa192 candy cane and pocket pistol require enemy players to attack. Mad milk needs to be off cooldown and ready to use. Soas just needs to be pulled out, so it will always be available to use.
Fun fact: The Backscatter is based off of an Advanced Weaponizer weapon called “The Perceptionist” It has very similar stats except it also has a larger clip size and faster reload (so it’s a back scatter + family business). I used it back in 2014 and I remember it being situational but still more interesting and useful than the Back Scatter.
Oooo ya know, a faster reload would actually balance the thing out a lil bit to be more useful to pepper one last shot if you get to fighting another guy.
one buff that can make it interesting is hitting that mini crit gives you 1 ammo so it rewards hitting those backs by not having to reload which counters the low ammo size by hitting your shots
what i can say? i am not dissapointed and this exactly what i expected. the pool was suspicious and that the video started without an introductory clip was also weird. i am still surprised that the video longed nearly 19 minutes, nineteen minutes about flank, people who are dead if they are flanked, if you don't flank you died and flank, etc.
but as the proud owner of the backsatter level 69, i am glad to see that you made it. and the next episode its gonna look better next to this so it wasn't that bad(?)
Any weapon that has a mechanic that involves hitting someone from behind is automatically wack where using any other weapon would be significantly better overall
I don’t know, the Backburner can be utterly terrifying when used right.
@@Shaun_Jones Well yes but actually no. You see, Back burner has like the most bullshit hitbox out of all backstabing based weapons, you have to be like almost perfectly lined up behind the enemy, which in a game like TF2 is hard because you're able to do little movements to the sides all the time. If you had the Dragon's Fury here you'd be able to melt people anyhow, or like the Phlog if you are a Scorch Shot abuser
@@Breakaway-ic5gj yes, and that’s a fair argument, but even then it still does have its moments
Ig I have to stop playing spy 😔
yea spy sucks
Idk how but you always make every video entertaining, regardless of subject matter
TF2 content is the art of talking about one idea about a very stupid subject and stretching it to +15 minutes to get """""content""""$"
Agreed! Fish has some stellar video composition skills.
True
@@leonardo9259 20 minet videos go brrrrr
@@leonardo9259 being able to stretch 15 minutes out of a single subject that can be explained in maybe a minute while also keeping the video entertaining is just pure skill
Backscatter on King of the Hill maps like Harvest is where this gun truly shines
An interesting buff idea I’ve had for the Backscatter is giving it a stat similar to the Panic Attack’s spread with consecutive shots.
The first shot in the clip will have a +20% increased accuracy, second shot will have a +10% increase in accuracy, etc.
The only idea that comes to my mind is to get rid off spread downside and add this small new mechanic:
For each kill (from any weapon), you instantly reload one shell in your clip
I know it doesn't match with Backscatter's design that well, but i just was thinking about a Scout primary that has this sort of mechanic, so i thought it would make sense to give this stat to a weapon that has a reduced clip
Sure sounds fun. The massive ammo drum definitely needs something to justify its model. Temporary Firing speed increase could be funny too.
heh, that could also work as a MVM upgrade.
what about a Airstrike like "kills increase magazine size" ability?
Backscatter
+ any kill adds two shells to current clip (maximum of 12)
+ extra 75% pellets per shot
+ mini-crits targets from back
- clip size reduced by 84%
- deploys 20% slower
- weapon does not reload
I feel like the downsides for it are fine, but it just needs a better upside, and idea i had was to give it more pellets that way at the very least you still do close to stock damage when facing soemone and deal substantialy more than stock from behind, either that or give it a speed boost after a kill from behind kinda like the axestinguisher.
Why on kill? Just getting the boost on a back-hit would take enough effort as is.
@@AlphaSquadZero yeah i could also see that if the boost on back kill ends up being to weak.
@@AlphaSquadZero Speed boost on back hit, temporary mini crits on back kill (on top of the already existing mini crit on back shots)?
Weapons Stereotypes and Bad Weapon Academy is what defined my late 2010s-early 2020s TF2 content creator experience. Good to see great TF2 content creators even now.
I like the firing sound the back scatter makes. It sounds so good.
"its consistently terrible, but its consistent"
story of my life
Here’s two Different ideas:
1. Up the damage slightly, so that it can one-shot Medics from close behind (maybe like 160 max damage) and add a buff on kill to help with getaways. Maybe a little damage resistance? Make it basically the “Scout plays Spy” scattergun.
2. Instantly reloads on kill. Reward skilled play with a low-damage weapon by letting you go on a rampage until killed.
If you do the reload on kill then make it so you get a free reload on minicrit kill, or even whenever you land a minicrit so people like heavies just get pummeled with hellfire of minicrits if they dont react or you run circles around them, Also remove the spread thing and replace that downside with less pellets but fixed spread. Pretty much make it kinda a backstab version of the panic attack and widowmaker
Actually i feel like the reload on minecrit is all you really need, but it would force players to constantly try for that widowmaker gimmick with the extra damage so idk. Back scatter is dumb lol
I think a solid idea is number 2, incentivising the flank-and-go playstyle that I think the gun should have. Either that insta-reload, or a speed boost/short mini Soda Popper effect on kill would do wonders for making the weapon feel more rewarding.
Mix the two ideas utilizing two of the concepts, instant reload on kill, and a buff after kill.
I'd imagine a 25%damage reduction buff for 4 seconds would be fine.
I imagine that maybe it should get the benefit of adding an extra clip after every kill like the airstrike because of it's design but maybe that would be too much.
Something to note from backscatter:
The mean "back" for backscatter only 90°(i forgot where i heard this) behind your enemy, lesser than spy with 180°. Thats why it feels so inconsistent because of how small your window opportunity for dealing mini-crit damage
And idk why they not make it more bigger radius like 120° or heck make it same as spy 180° so it feels not-to-literally behind someone. Its not like you can chain infinitely your kill because that clip size
i once saw someone who said they should make this like the old panic attack, letting you load up 4 shots, and spray your load all over a group of enemies back.
i think thats the best direction to take this weapon.
I think the issue with the back scatter is that it's designed like one of those "training wheels" weapons you talked about but because of the high skill floor needed to play scout effectively, the back scatter ends up needing *more* skill to use than it's "non-training wheels" counterparts.
It's not that the upsides don't justify the downsides, it's that the weapon no matter what can't be strong because otherwise it just makes you better at the thing scout is already supposed to be doing.
4:02 im sorry for the roler pipe death
The back scatter can also be used to finish off retreating or fleeing enemies.
You could increase it's fire rate substantially for like 2 seconds whenever it gets a minicrit. Would give it some extra oomph with it's original use case and give it synergy with things like jirati and (I think) the fan-o-war.
This weapon is the definition of: "Okay, I have it. Now what?"
I just want to say for the record I'm here for the Renegade Nuzloke and have never requested a weapon on this series to my memory, please don't torture yourself with using unfun weapons for content please, there are in fact some people who actually care for others mental health on the internet despite what most people would tell you.
How does using weapons in a video game effect mental health
@@Breakaway-ic5gjuh talking about a weapon does, not using it (except for the gas passer, rip zesty.
@@hiei7682 Fair enough
Especially since a lot of other people (from what I've seen) are pretty down in the dumps around this time.
Maybe choose the next weapon for yourself instead of going to the audience for suggestions.
The Back Scatter honestly just turns you into a discount spy, most situations you can deal damage with it is a target spy can just instakill, and he can go on larger streaks and destroy engine nests.
the Irony is I feel like it's "Mini-Crits from behind" mechanic would be way more useful on something like the Cleaners Carbine, where the boosted damage and the consistent range it can get makes filling the Crit meter more doable
the best thing that I can come up for the Back Scatter is just to generally leave it's current stats intact, maybe significantly increase the damage penalty for non-back shots, while adding the same on-hit effects of the Widowmaker and Dragons Fury's for hitting an enemy in general (i/e instantly reload a shell from your reserve ammo on hit, while RoF increases with each consecutive hit). or don't increase the damage penalty and instead something like the health drain of the GRU, so that it forces you to commit to cut and run tactics alongside flanking
Personally I'd love to see bigger damage / more pellets per shot on this thing. That would increase the viable range for one-shotting light classes from a bigger range or one-shot Pyros or Demos at fart distances assuming you can successfully flank. If you want to make it a flanking weapon, at least have fun with the concept! Go nuts! Might aswell make that niche upside more extreme for the heck of it. At least flanking would be much more rewarding than what we have now.
At this point why not just give it full crits when you hit the enemy's back?
@@davisdf3064 One shotting a Heavy point-blank and then taking out someone else within seconds sounds pretty busted to me, hence why I weren't so sure about the crits idea.
@@TheMikirog
I see
2:38 Dead Simple you say? So there's a chance for it to spawn mancubi and arachnotrons for you to fight against, eh?
Also real talk for a sec but I will say this: The Back Scatter sounds super satisfying to shoot, even if it's definitely not.
Ah, a man of culture I see.
My ol boi, Jerma! Such a classic! Still watch him to this day! Good stuff! 😁👍🏻
Rework
Back scatter
+66% damage when firing at the back of an enemy from close range
+34% clip size
+15% faster movement speed when facing towards an enemies back
Alt-fire: perform a fast turn that recharges with damage
(100 damage)
-33% damage per pellet
-25% reloading speed
Can’t shoot while reloading
+15% damage vulnerability
Honestly if were to buff the back scatter I would add a speed boost on kill that lasts abt 3 seconds and maybe remove the 20% less accuracy
I would do that but for reload speed. That way it's better or equal to stock if you only use two or three shots, which is all you need against unwary players.
Honestly I don’t think the backscatter is bad. Its just outclassed by much better options (ie stock, soda popper, and force-of-nature.)
You just repeated exactly what he said
Thats the reason why syringe guns are bad they are outclassed ..
@@InfamousInvictis look my phone died before I got to that part
@@mysticaltree4875 honestly blutsauger isn’t terrible. Its pretty okay in some situations
I trhink an idea to rework this would be something like where if you hit a back, it completly fills a meter that drains over time, whiler that meter is filled you get crits or increced damage or something
You will NOT be able to get behind the engineer, as he just gets behind a engineer. 6:06
Same thing happened with the spy clip where he says that you will mostly accidentally kill a spy whilst hunting down a spy.
Tbh I prefer Scout's unlockable melee, the Scat Batter; it's like the Sandman but the projectiles are brown and sticky.
That is honestly horrible why
@@empdisaster10 "Splatter up, chucklenuts!"
I love the backscatter and it’s tied with the shortstop for my most used scout primary. Can’t wait to see how the video tears it up
I have the solution. Give it all the same stats as the shortstop minus the shove and instant reload. Then give it mini crits from behind. Also let it minicrit from any distance.
Or just flip the accuracy debuff to an accuracy buff.
I'd say using either the Stock Pistol, PBPP or even the Guillotine work well with the Back Scatter, since they're still good ranged weapons to compensate for both the accuracy and clip reduction. And if one of the pistols is in your secondary slot, you could go with the Wrap Assassin for extra damage if you shot someone from the front.
This could make your play just as effective and just gives you a slight bonus if you're a good flanker
Agreed, the bleed effect weapons like Guillotine and Wrap Assassin could work with this one. If they are far away from any healing sources, that is.
@@SkyBlitz64 I suppose those would work. Hit and run kind of things, but at that point just run the bfb because you're banking on dealing a ton of damage and either chasing them down or running away instantly. The speed would work for both over the Backscatters minicrits
10:51 I have like 40 hours on sniper and I can say that getting shots like what that guy got on fish is easier than any non-sniper thinks. Just scope in and if you have enough game sense you can just zoom onto their head, not worry much about tracking since Fish was walking in an unwavering line, and click. And then I get soyraged at with people saying "OMG YOU ARE JUST ABUSING AN OP CLASS WITH YOUR .2 QUICKSCOPES REEEE" anyone who can rub three braincells together can kill you when you are moving in such a dumb way, get real
Losers like to complain 🤷
I feel like what could help the Back Scatter is giving it some sort of boost on kill, making the weapon better for flanking groups but not so good for duels. Perhaps a speed boost to close the gap between targets or knockback resistance to ensure you'll get your next kill.
Hooray, a new episode in exactly December 1
The way you capped this video reminds me of something Yoshiyuki Tomino allegedly said to the creator of Neon Genesis Evangelion. "Kill'em All" Tomino is the guy behind Mobile Suit Gundam, and when someone told him that Gundam inspired them to make NGE, he responded along the lines of "don't blame this piece of shit on me".
FSOAS: says backscatter is boring
Also FSOAS: makes 18 minute video on the backscatter
I enjoy his anger in this episode.
Fish PLEASE if this series is starting to feel more like a job then PLEASE take a break I don't want this to turn into you're hat stereotypes
The man did it. Are you happy now? No? Of course not.
Also you got my name right this time :D
This is probably my favorite scattergun because I play offense on payload + attack/defense often. It's perfect for picking off retreating enemies after a failed push so you can fight with your team normally and get that extra bonus damage when they turn tail and run. The most effective way to use this scattergun is to actually stay with your team and keep an eye on who may be mid health which I'll admit other scatterguns will do just as good or better at this but larger damage number = more dopamine. Watching a soldier try to blast away and fly off as a cadaver is hilarious and I seem to be able to kill heavies with pocket medics much more consistently because getting behind a heavy and dropping him in 3 back shots vs 4 with stock is safer and then the medic is easy pickings with the heavy down.
Rework for the backscatter: let it have sentry resistance or """counter""" to sentries instead of the mini crits and give it a down side to a different class or hurt the scouts mobility
I absolutely love that you use the ratchet and clank ost for these video’s
If I were to rework the back scatter, I'd say switch the wider spread with a narrow spread, decrease the usually monstrous damage fall off to a mild extent, and maybe switch mini-crits for full at the cost of a 5-10% damage decrease on each pellet. Not necessarily making it a viable weapon, but making it something generally different and not just "it's stock but boring".
the shortstop
@@millios3592 Yes and no. Plus if I'm being honest, the shortstop should probably be a secondary considering how bad it is. Also just for the sheer level of cheese to have in a strat that involves shortstop and something like the scattergun or the force of nature, I just think it'd be fun.
how to fix the backscatter:
1. remove random bullet spread on it
2. change it to 15% more bullet spread
I don't know why everyone is pining for the removal of the accuracy penalty. It's a shotgun weapon. You're going to be using it at short range anyway. It's pretty much unnoticeable.
Wtf is bullet speed? It's hitscan, it's instant
in this episode, fish is just angry. and rightfully so.
A good way to fix it would be to replace the wider spread with a tighter spread
It's a shame, since the Backscatter's design is my favorite, right behind the Force-A-Nature.
Edit: I was thinking of some sorta mechanic where the Backscatter can make you go invisible like Spy if you get enough kills or something.
Note: The Backscatter has one use in MVM; IF damage is maxed, it will one shot medics. Why do I know this? In Wave 666, it was the weapon I used when I got 100% of the credits. Yes, it was painful, but the weapon was satisfying.
The backscatter could be amazing if it was turned into a glass cannon weapon, specifically turning you into more of a stealth class.
I have an idea.
How about when you deal damage from behind but would get minicrits anyway because they are marked for death or something you deal *crits* instead?
So you could combo The Back Scatter with Fan O'War or Crit-a-Cola.
Bushwacka for scout sounds cool
Looking forward to "In Defense of the Fan o' War" and BWA on the Sandman. I used to love the Sandman when it was an overpowered menace, and after it got practically removed from the game I switched to the Fan. I honestly think that the Fan is perfectly balanced. On its own it's a funny meme weapon, but when paired with a shotgun or your teammates, it becomes a very cheeky hit and run tool.
Fan o War is going to be a BWA I believe, since why slap an enemy for mini crits when you can just shoot them twice. I'm going to guess the strategy is to use it against classes you can't reliably two shot, like heavies, soldiers, and demoknights.
I friggin love the Fan O War man, just flanking some overconfident heavy with overheal, dumping milk and hitting him with the fan before watching your team shred him to bits is so satisfying. It, like the Backscatter, relies on flanking, but in my opinion tapping a target and running in exchange for a few seconds of minicrits for all damage he takes is much better.
I’ve actually been using the FOW pretty frequently, and honestly it’s one of the most mixed bag weapons in the game, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Fish puts it on the BWA list
Don’t get me wrong, what you said is true: it's a fun and satisfying hit-and-run tool, and whether it’s just yourself or your team, setting the mini-crit up to bulldoze that specific (group of) enemy(/ies) is great!… but the amount of times *that* happens is so low compared to an enemy being too preoccupied to safely hit them with the weapon, or just outright die while trying to do so. It’s as Nicholas and even Fish himself said: why bother to set up a mini-crit, when you have other options to eliminate the enemy ASAP? There’s little incentive and reward for doing it cause the risk is greater.
What I propose is make it so that if you hit an enemy with the FOW, you get a speed boost that lasts about 5-8 secs, just long enough to either get away from that enemy, or be cheeky and run around them to kill them more effectively. My thought is that, since it’s supposed to be in the niche of flank scouts, this would be enough to reward them for being able to do so, while still giving them the risk of potentially failing.
As for pairs, it’s down to whether you want to be damage-reliant, or movement-reliant:
- Force-A-Nature & PBPP: With the FAN’s knockback effect, you can essentially say “fuck you” to the enemy even more by pushing them away from you, or hell even directly to your team’s line of fire, and the PBPP being as it is makes it easy to pick away at them and get some health back in the process.
- Soda Popper & Winger: Pretty self-explanatory, but since the SP already does good damage, you’re able to be as effective if you don’t have the opportunity for a FOW pick, and the Hype meter allowing for multiple jumps can make ambushing an enemy even easier since you can hop around to different points. The Winger is also like that as well, since the extra jump height allows for a bit more positioning and sneaky plays to get near an enemy for the pick.
Man, you can easily feel FSOAS's frustration in this video. It really says a lot about this weapon, lol.
Unlike the video
While i wasn't one of them who requested this weapon, i do enjoy just listening to you talk about it.
I've already had the vibe that this scattergun is the worst, while the shortstop is weaker, the shortstop has a respectable niche that makes it distinct. Back Scatter has a upside that can be replaced with the Crit-a-Cola and Fan-o-War for too much as a downside.
Actually i would prefer making it do a normal crit instead of removing a downside if this can do 150 to 200 in one shot from behind i think this could be viable with the 2 downsides being valid compensation
medic mains are shaking in their boots at this comment
@@LoraLoibu they have to turn around constantly for spies anyways
@@jknifgijdfui might as well have a constant +right going god damn
the back scatter is a gun i used in my early scout days, boy do i regret it.
an idea i had for the gun as a rework, is to add a alt fire that unloads the entire clip at once, giving you a mega powered up shot that will one shot most light classes at close range, the downside being the reload takes a lot longer, meaning if you miss, your in trouble, or you'd be forced to retreat.
or instead of longer reloads it could have a charge meter like the phlog, or gas passer, and you can expend the charge to use this powerful shot.
just a thought, also good work man, sorry you had to bear this awful gun.
Rework wise I can think of two things.
Number 1 is maybe add a fear effect? Not the most useful thing in the world considering the other scatter-gun's effects of being dead far outweighs just a temporary slow and inability to shoot but it would compliment the sandman's stun effect. The optimal target I guess would be heavy-medic pairs that have their wits about them (I.e. will pop uber or the heavy will turn around and krump you if the medic charging button disappears) or other targets that you can't afford to not kill on the first shot (I.e. Direct hit soldier a.k.a. the better demoknight).
The other thought is do something with those drum magazines it has and make it like the beggars bazooka and have it fire off large amount of ammo at once, devastating groups/targets who don't notice you but leaving you without a primary if your try and attack from the front (which, as scout, leaves you with a bat and a pistol or drink. Good fucking luck with that heavy-medic combo now) rewarding you for attacking unaware targets, also, this would change the scout from "That bastard who steals all my fucking health kits" to "That bastard who steals all my fucking ammo boxes". A possibly? better tradeoff for your team considering being out off ammo tends to be easier to rectify then having to wait 15 seconds to respawn.
Either way, current backscatters only value is scrap, piece o' shit aint even typically fun to meme with.
The best thing to come out of this episode was FSoaS getting another sponsorship roll which most of us skipped.