I've had a 4 cylinder Giulia for 2 years and it makes pretty much every single day feel like Christmas. Get one while you can because soon they will all be iCars. Installing a $400 JB4 gave me a Draggy clocked 4.5 sec to 60 easy.
Giulia owner here! The steering is jarring at first but you do get used to it. You learn to steer with your fingers and not your arms on the freeway because of how reactive the steering is. Once you've calibrated your brain, it becomes pretty relaxing to drive
This is very interesting subject as I find the fast steering on all Alfas for the past 30 years the best thing about the brand, they are fun even at slow speeds. However after driving the Alfas exclusively for almost two decades I do not see why other manufacturers do not use this setup, especially those who pretend to be a sport car brands like BMW for example. As for the argument that a fast steering can be dangerous at higher speeds, this is really not an issue. My wife drives her small Lancia with a very slow steering rack and when we go to the seaside she drives my Alfa sometimes on a highway at 140kmh, she says nothing but I see that first few kilometres she makes few sharp movements as she need some time to relax and hold the wheel with her fingers instead of grabbing it hard, but few minutes later everything feels normal again. The thing is you buy 400+hp car and you get slow steering as there is a possibility that you will kill yourself while driving fast on autoban. Nonsensical really.
This is why I love Jason, he’s the reason I found the Quadrofolgio and it became my dream car because of his praises of it and it’s drop dead gorgeous looks. He created my love for new cars and the passion that I now have for cars in general! Love the podcast as well!
Jason is a go-to guy for automotive opinion. Entertaining, non-condescending ,enlightening, educating,knowledgeable, and honest. Like that neighbor with a great,multi car,garage you wish you had on a Saturday afternoon. 😊
The show gets better by every episode. Btw I own a 2018 Giulia ti sport Q2 and its the best car I’ve ever driven by far. I also owned an 2000 Alfa 156 2.0 :)
Thank you for talking about electronic brakes. One of the things I tend to do when driving any car is come to so smooth a stop that the "inertial snap" is either imperceptible or nonexistent. Some of these newer brake-by-wire cars make that impossible to do, and it bothers me to no end. Manufacturers really need to work on that.
They update the software and is much much better now. I owned 2016 Giulia and I cant even tell difference now between normal and elek. brakes. But it is true that l used to it :D
23:33- that's the moment Derek nailed the reason to own the Quadrifoglio. I've got one, and it's ABSOLUTELY an emotional roller coaster. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Hi. For me, the show might as well be easily called "95 year old scholar & 12 year old street wise a*** talk cars because they know shit" and I would still watch it like it's my daily prayer. It's so refreshing, educating and passionate that I find myself endlessly craving for more. I only met the same level of passion watching the videos of Chris Harris. You're the only 3 people left around able to talk about cars passionately in an articulate manner, distilling in words complex emotions. And you are geeky mechanics and I love that part too. This is something he doesn't (not on camera, though he seems at least as knowledgeable). The way you complement each other in term of dynamics (I really don't care if there is some sort of a script behind the talk) is very, very, very, very nice. That being said, I congratulate you on the idea, the way you deliver your content and the substance and novelty you still bring to an old subject. THANK YOU! Words cannot express how rewarding it is. It's like going to a veeery fancy restaurant with one item on the menu, never the same, but still the same: extraordinary! A deep, deep feeling of gratitude towards you guys! You're not making me just this day, but all the previous as well.
@@sturdyvw I bought a brand new one (TI), 2 years of ownership 4 things broke: something broke in turbo assembly (took them 2 months to fix), they couldn't figure, waited for a new one from Italy, leather on the dash broke, sunroof broke, sensor cover fell out. Before I had 5 years of ownership of Toyota and Honda - 0 things ever broke. Big difference. But just as big of a difference is the driving experience.
Jason good to hear your comments on the Giulia Quadrofoglio once again. Excellent job on the head to head video with the competition three years ago. Didn't you say in that video review that dynamically the Giulia Quadrofoglio was perfect and the M-3 is a decade behind in dynamics? Jonny Lieberman agreed with you. Derek I relate to your emotional connection to the car. Great hearing you share your thoughts and emotions on the Giulia Quadrofoglio. More importantly, your conclusion that the Tesla Model 3 is what you recommend for others is spot on. It takes a special audience to appreciate the Quadrofoglio. You're in excellent company. (I've driven the Proton Saga. LOL) On that note, I've had zero issues on a 2018 Quadrofoglio two years on. Earlier 2016/2017 models were pre-production models rushed out for the press journalists and had teething problems with their software. These issues have largely been resolved on later models. FCA spent over 5 billion euros on this bespoke car (based on the Giorgio platform) and rushed this car out in 2.5 years so naturally press models did not have all the bugs resolved. It's not a Lexus but the Lexus does not drive like this Italian beauty (or beast in race mode). Another moment of silence for the lack of a manual transmission?
because m3s and c63s have no problems. i worked at rusnak mercedes dealer ships and bmw dealerships and see many ovver 100k miles on many m3s and c63s. the owners always come on time for service thats why. Everytine the computer says oil change and brake and tires as well as service a and B
I cannot bear to buy a new car but if I had to, Alfa Gulia would be it. It stirs my soul. Tesla is cool too but it’s a practical choice, especially if you have a long commute. I am for the Alfa! 2017 Aprilia Factory Tuono 2001 MB E55 AMG 1977 MB 450 SL
I noticed it too. For me who's hearing is not the best from years of working in high noise factory, the eco and the low volume makes it hard to hear what the lads are speaking of, especially when they are whispering to each other.
I'm an old Carmudgeon nice to see Jason give V6 engines some praise, most people hate them. Me being the old & poor carmudgeon that I am has never experienced any of these new/er cars/electric, the newest car I've ever owned/driven was an 06 Toyota Tacoma quadcab 4x4. My Tacoma was a nice truck, but I hated the drive by wire throttle, I could "confuse" the computer by getting on and off the throttle too fast for it, if the right rear tire slipped on ice, a Man Hole cover, etc, while taking a right turn it would confuse the computer and wouldn't let the truck "go" until it had traction again, truck had little computer quirks I didn't like, computers are suppose to be fast, but I sometimes found myself waiting for the computer to make up it's mind. Give me drive by cable throttle, mechanical steering and an 7 speed manual trans, that I can drive, not some computer! YES I said 7 speed manual trans, I want to row them gears! I owned a Suzuki DR 350 dual sport, it was a 6 speed bike, I still found myself wishing I had another gear at highway speeds. I'd probably buy something like an Alfa, I like that turbo V6, if they made it in a manual trans and I could afford it, but I can't afford something like that.... So I drive a 78 Datsun king cab 620 pickup with a built Buick v6 engine swap, 2004r overdrive trans(wished it was manual), 411:1 rear gears, dual exhaust, front/rear anti sway bars, good tires shocks, front air dam, built it myself, it outruns about half of what's out there, surprises many people, sounds good, is a blast to drive, never gets me tickets, cause it seems to "confuse" the cops, It's a total sleeper, they look at it and scratch their heads, they "can't believe it was going that fast" that's good enough for me. ;)
Here in Switzerland I can buy a 40K km (60k miles) MANUAL Giulia Quadrifoglio for 50K Swiss francs ($25k) I only say this for the cruelty of it, yes. 🤣
I drove a Model 3 for my birthday, and I was very surprised on how well it handled and how great the steering was for being epas. It was a fun car to drive.
People who don't understand physics and basic economics often miss why the M3 can be such a great car... It is basicallyva mid-engined saloon, with the best consunption/economy of any car currently on sale. Yes, it is possible a Toyota can be cheaper in your 3-10 years having the car. However the Toyota ain't mid-engined...
My favorite car show on UA-cam. Real car guys who understand cars and can rationally discuss and articulate what they like and why, honestly. Keep it up.
One of the most interesting videos I've ever seen about the importance of emotion in a car. It is probably no coincidence that I own 2 cars that are both extremely emotional, namely a Giulia Quadrifoglio automatic from 2017 and an Abarth 595C Competizione with manual gearbox from 2019. I use the Abarth for short distances (city, B-roads, mountain trips) and the Giulia for longer distances (usually on the highway) and both perform extremely well in their own area. In terms of emotion, the Abarth is certainly not inferior to the Giulia and even superior at slow speeds. There is no problem whatsoever in terms of reliability: nothing has gone wrong with the Abarth, while the Giulia only needed a software update for the fuel pump. Oh yes, I did replace the weak battery (German made...) to avoid electrical problems. However, if I had to drive up and down to a workplace in traffic jams every day, I would not want to use either car but perhaps switch to an electric car.
For those interested in Alfa but leery, do yourselves a favor and either buy or lease a 2018 and on Giulia Ti Sport with the performance package (LSD, road dampers). I've had one for two years and it is utter bliss to drive for a relatively reasonable price (mid-40's, though I got an insane discount). Not so much as one hiccup thus far besides one software recall that took one hour at the dealer. The chassis, the handling/steering, the high-end torque, the seating position and of course the looks come together for a brilliant, brilliant car. Every single time I park and get out, I always have to turn around and look at it when I lock up. Can make a mundane errand or commute enjoyable. I'm also a "fringe" buyer where I care about how emotive the car is and how I feel while driving it or looking at it. What's eye opening is how many people around my age (35) don't care about cars and/or driving experience. It's become a remedial chore. I think they touched upon this in the video where the enthusiasm and passion for cars has slowly been eroding in the last 10-15 years.
This episode was timely. I've been looking at used Guilia Ti variants for the last month. They've dropped as low as ~20K. Of course the reason I'm looking for one is that none of my other 6 Alfa run. I've got 3 164, including two 24 valves, and a GTV6 that is about to get a 3.0 12v swap. Oh, and another 4 Busso V6s as spares...It's a sickness. And, yes, I've looked at the Tesla. It's in my future...but not yet.
Update on this, fuck the Tesla. Alfa all the way. I’ve driven a model s P85D and the feeling doesn’t compare, it can do 0-60 in 3 but it doesn’t compare to the joy of my 4 cyl alfa. I didn’t expect to feel this way, but over the past year the alfa has stolen my heart.
It's really not a sports car by any stretch of the imagination. (Personally i really appreciate the GS -as 450h! That's the right "character" for that yacht and a very appealing package. However for a sport sedan, in the true sence of the word, there were only bmws for years [decades] until they fattened up. Luckily as of right now, the king is finally back, with the Giulietta / Giulia from the 50ies and 60ies being regarded as the first "sport sedans" and creator of this class of automobile.)
Think of it this way: For the giulia, the emotional gratification is immediate, while the throttle response is gradual. For the tesla, the throttle response is immediate, but the emotional gratification is gradual. Electrics started out weird to me but damn, I have a model 3 dual motor performance and by the week the thing induces laughs far more than the week before. It's hard to explain, but It's more understanding the different language that electrics use to deliver the thrills. We know where to find the excitement in gasoline vehicles, but for electrics it takes some getting used to. Now I can appreciate both. (The other vehicle is a heavily modded turbo thing running on E85)
Great discussion on how Tesla capitalized on the paradox of choice. I also agree that Jason is correct about California being way ahead technologically but it's California that's killing off manual/ naturally aspirated sports cars with emission regulations.
Thanks for putting this show together guys. I've enjoyed watching through the back catalogue of both the Carmudgeon and Care & Feeding shows. Very informative and the cheekiness is fun.
If these cars were women (or men) Alfa Romeo: Comes from a wealthy family. Has a Bachelor's Degree from USC Sexy af (also in good shape) Sense of humor can offend some people (Not PC) Accustomed to a certain lifestyle (High maintnence) Bad temper (Always will try to get the last word in arguments) Very fashionable Can be classy but they'll pop off if they need to Amazing in bed Loud af Street smart Swears like Samuel L. Jackson Has no problem backing you up in a fight but will also call you out on your bullshit Tesla: Comes from a wealthy and very connected family from Silicon Valley Went to boarding school Very intellegent (Doctorate from Oxford) Started a business at a young age Great in bed Not very emotional and also quite stoic Always knows what to say (Smooth talking) Very refined and classy Struggles to see things through others point of view Vegan Vewy, vewy quiet Guess which one I'd prefer.
I'd also say that the Alfa loves wine (= gas) and gets drunk at times! Write this one on the ''Accustomed to a certain lifestyle (high maintenance)'' point! ;-D
But the Tesla Model 3 is not a pretty car to look at, at least to my eyes. Kinda like Daffy Duck when he got his bill blown off by Bugs. I'd still own one, though, if there were better infrastructure support for EVs in my area. I deal with some very cold temps in the winter, also.
Hey guys just wanted to say I enjoy the videos, great job. I am a service manager at a multi line luxury car dealership. I agree during a new car lease and when a car is under warranty a tesla is cheaper to own maintenance costs are lower when they are new. The common misconception with electric cars is "I will never have to do oil changes, I won't have any maintenance". I worked for Nissan for years and electric cars are only marginally less expensive to maintain than traditional vehicles. Electric cars require brake fluid changes every two years just like traditional vehicles, alignments, tires also they are more complex. When the warranty expired on many Nissan leafs a common issue is the heat stopped working, or the a/c. The electronic grid heater box is over $2000 to repair, we don't see issues like that on regular sedans with under 100,000 miles on them, also electronic a/c compressors required for a/c costs twice as much as it does for a gas vehicle. Another common problem with electric cars in northern states is brake system rust. Most of the time the electric motor stops the car so the brakes rarely get used. We have calipers start sticking and rotors rusting that will not pass state safety inspections. Add the fact that tesla is not a reliable car company to begin with and I think ten years from now you will not be able to give away a used tesla. They know technology not how to build cars. If you want an electric car a safer bet will be an electric Mercedes or BMW, VW or Honda for instance. These car companies have been making door handles, window regulators, seat tracks ect for 50 years and know how to make things last. Teslas are falling apart during the warranty period just wait until the first electric motor gets replaced out of warranty. The cost is over $10,000 on Volvo t8 models and they fail before 100,000 miles. The idea of leasing an electric car is great but if you are going to buy one I would recommend buying from an established car manufacturer like the Bolt or audi E tron etc. Food for thought....
Might i add something: While all other manufacturers provide their spare parts to non-brand/dealership-workshops (i miss the english word for "free workshops") basically anyone who wants to buy a spare part, Tesla refuses to do so in almost all cases.
I am with DTS on this one. I will continue to both commute to work and drive for pleasure with my 30+ year old Sciroccos, 25 year old Miata, and 15 year old carbureted sport bikes. I prefer my vehicles to move my soul, not just my body. No mere appliances for me.
Alfa needs to stand out more than they already do - in typical Alfa fashion they have a perfect recipe but only cook it 90%. They need glorious na engine noise, dump the turbos, and a manual transmission. Not much else needed for the Giulia other than maybe some reliability baked in... Jason is right that all sport sedans are the same these days. AWD/RWD, twin turbo V6/V8, various states of tune, fast shifting automatic transmissions, and lots of tech inside. They are all essentially the same. I drive an Alfa sport sedan - lightweight, Busso V6, direct steering, manual transmission. That is the basic recipe
So include a manual even though less than 8% of there potential customers are willing to buy one. There is a reason why many sporty car manufacturers don't even give the option for manual anymore. It's not financially feasible.
Love that DTS cited Jonny Lieberman’s speculation that the Alfa clutch pedal cut off feet (of test dummy’s) in crash tests. JC reminded me of an article I read in 1988 where the author postulated that the then new NSX and 300ZX twin turbo ushered in a new golden age of cars that we readers would look back on and long for nostalgically.
Hydraulic racks have had variable ratios cut into them for a long time, so when you're on center you get one slow ratio for low speed/parking/cruising stability and another ratio near the ends of the rack that's faster.
True, although as i understand it, he was not talking about the ratio, but the assistance. (how light, heavy you have to work to turn the wheel) But that also was done already with hydraulic steering. I have owned one that did that, and still own another one that has hydraulic power steering with variable assitance depending on the speed.
Absolutely agree w/you guys! I'll always drive a "driver's car". I own a QV Nring, and I'll try to never drive any boring cars today, including all EV's.
Great episode! I have a ‘17 Giulia Ti Lusso, ‘18 Model 3 LR, and a from new ‘92 164S. What I really want is a Giulia with the Busso and manual. That would be sublime!
I am holding onto my 2018 WRX manual simply because there is no other choice in the price range that can replace that. Manual 4door with AWD and good gas millage is very rare these days.
Derek, I don't know which 2 Alfas you had just because of the Busso V6, but my Busso was not the only reason, it was the design as well. You see, a '96 GTV still looks cool and unique. Thanks guys for those nice car talks. "Alfa is the best and the rest is shit" or "It's an Alfa or the new way of driving"...I like that kind of arguments. Rare to find (excluding AR forums). But in the way you put it, they're true.
In a comparison with the 330i Car and Driver did get 0-60 of 4.6 seconds on the Giulia Ti Sport Q4. The benefit of 93 over 91 octane gas perhaps. I recently purchased a 2020 Giulia Ti Sport Q4 and I agree with Derek's driving impression. Very engaging car easy to fall in love with - I did. The Q4 is rear drive biased and works very well in this regard. I live in the Northeast so AWD is a nice to have when the option is Rear or All Wheel drive. You can always get an aftermarket exhaust to make the experience complete.
I feel like in this new era of the next revolution of the car.The way of loving cars and even the character of the car is changing. Issue is, most enthusiasts are still clinging onto the old way and common practices. Its the mindsets that are lagging beyond, cant understand anything outside of whats already known, no intention of progression or change.
I’m passionate cars, and I’ve only driven manual cars all my life. I used to piss on the Model 3 Performance... until I drove it. It definitely feels like the future and it’s still fun in a more “digital” way. Bonus that it doesn’t have a transmission, so I didn’t sell out to automatics. But add in the charging at my house and no maintenance, and it’s so STUPID fast... it is the perfect daily driver even for people passionate about driving. I love tech and the Model 3 still hits my emotions. Still gonna get a Corvette Z51 convertible in the garage for the weekends when I miss exhaust notes and tunnels though...
Jason is the ONLY person on UA-cam that gets to call me a dumbf@ck and I keep watching. I'm not sure why. I met him at a car show in Monterey a few years back where he was showing his MB 190 2.3 16V and he was just as much of a curmudgeon.
you guys should check out mountainpass performance. they do some really cool things with tesla. No engine noise still, but drifting in silence is still pretty cool :)
I know this was from 2020. But hey, most of America can't afford a $74k car. Coming from a 2008 Mazda 3 with 131k on it... So I can relate here. Love my Alfa 2021 Ti Sport and you've explained why. I was drooling over M3s. But got the Alfa instead. Totally wanted a Tesla, but I really wanted something a bit more fun. EV will be next, I'm sure. So this review was great to hear and helped justify my decision.
I have owned 2 Giulia's, (2017 & 2019) both of them have had ZERO issues. They are great cars. Super performance out of a 2.0 and great gas mileage. I would never buy a model 3 Tesla, they are extremely unreliable. Far worse than Alfa Romeo, which does not deserve the reputation for their new cars that they have been getting.
I'm really surprised that you didn't have any issue with 2017 model. I personally own 2018 Giulia TI and had radiator and turbo replaced due to leaking (17k miles). I heard 2017 ones have way more problems. And I think this is why I don't recommend buying Alfas as much as I love driving them.
@@225lee99 I owned the 2017 and had zero issues, my best friends family owns a 2017 without any issues. We are now leasing a 2019 and have had no issues with it as well. I can only speak to the reliability of the Giulia's we've owned and know about. Yours obviously had issues. I'm sure every car brand has issues, no brand is absolutely perfect.
Truly honest feelings, insight and discussion. I think it can be summed up in Jason's description of the current M3 i.e. " the 3-Series can go FUCK itself". I really appreciate such visceral and succinct quantification of the vehicle, Thanks Jason.... and Derek too.
I have to say that you hit the nail on the head. These are the only two sedans that I would ever consider. I've, so far, put off swapping my manual Grand Sport for one...so far.
This whole episode is literally a recap of my last 3 months of car searching, and coming to pretty much the same conclusions. Heart is in Giulia,with Model 3 or C63 being the others. And with the Giulia, total tossup on Quad vs Ti, leaning to the Ti, already looking to spec an exhaust. The only other item I’ve looked at is the Stelvio, and it’s great for utility, but don’t know if I like the gunslit back window. My brain is currently on used 2018/2019 Ti Sport, since I don’t see taking the hit on new, and I prefer the drive selector to be the physical clock wheel, not the virtual wheel that resets to Normal every start. And agree, this will probably be my last gas car, so make it count. As for the cheap Quads, check the car fax and see how many service/lemons there are, pretty much all of them have had 12-17 service records and/or are buybacks.
I leased an 18 Ti Sport Q4 with LSD and have run it with a JB4 for 18k miles. It's been an absolutely incredible car and in my opinion has no peers in the class. Makes every day feel special, unlike any modern German car.
@@frumpd63 Lease is the way to go, to my mind RWD is a bit more fun though. I test drove more powerful Germans (CLS550, 235, 440, S5) - even with extra power the drive wasn't that enjoyable.
They are spot on about the tesla 3p. No servicing and for a tech nerd, those OTA updates are like a xmas every month! No regrets about buying one. Having said that, from a pure driving point, I’d still rate the ‘98 manual mx5 as my favourite. More fun than my last 3 series or any other car that I’ve driven
I found what you said about the GTI’s steering very interesting. I had a type S Acura before and I always felt like the steering was a little darty at really high speeds compared to the GTI I now which feels rock solid at very high speeds. The weird part is that the gti feels like it’s steering is just as quick on twisty backroads.
So I have a manual E90 335i (hydraulic steering) and found that the 16:1 steering ratio felt slow. Swapped in the 12.5:1 rack from the M3. Even though the steering is heavier, having the quick ratio and the feel of hydraulic is divine. It's heavier than the M3 one would be. The M3 includes a servotronic system that adjusts assistance based on vehicle speed. So you can have adjustable assistance hydraulic steering.
@@dielaughing73 it probably is. Not sure how common it is in hydraulic racks. I know it was available as an option on e90's but I'd prefer consistent steering feel. You can also code the assistance curve if you have an experienced coder.
The Quad electrics were solved when this video was done. I laugh out loud when I drive my QV. My QV is my fav car ever, over several Ferraris, AMG, BMW M, and while I still own two Porsches including a 997.2 GT3 and a 991.1 GTS I would pick the QV over everything, ever.
Not sure if it's just this video, but the sound was very hard to hear. It's a talk show, I can't hear the talk. So it's just a show.
9 місяців тому
Interesting point as to why people are not buying them. I am considering an Alfa Quad as may next car. I find it interesting that when I look through the classifieds there are low mileage fairly new cars with quite a few owners sometimes as much as 4 for a car under 2 years old.
Love watchin these episodes but come on Jason. Torque converters are more then fluid couplings. Fluid couplings do not have a stator and thus can not multiply torque. Torque convertors with their stator provide torque multiplication right up to the point where impeller speed meets turbine speed (also known as coupling speed). At this point the "lock up" torque convertor "locks up". Plus a DCT is NOT an "automatic transmission". DCT's are a form of automated manual transmission. Love all the stuff you guys do. Wish you would do more "Head 2 Head" type stuff. Loved your H2H episodes! All the best to you guys and your future projects!
I have a Tesla Model 3 Performance. Jason is right. I have 2013 Audi S5 Cabriolet for some fun and a 2001 BMW 540i 6 Speed for the anachronism. I have to say, I'm starting to see into the emotional quotient of the Tesla which is more subtle. Things like track mode and other factors evolve in the Tesla, the car has been becomes more individualistic. The aftermarket for this car has exploded and that is part of the emotional quotient.
Buying my second Giulia TI sport tmrw. First car was low optioned awd, this new car is fully loaded except advanced drivers assistance and rwd. LSD and adaptive dampers.
Problem is that every real car enthusiast loves how the Quadrifoglio drives, apparently everyone also knows it's the best driverfocust car and the car to buy but nobody really buy's it. That's a shame because the M3's and C63's of the world are selling like pancakes these days. Guess your viewers don't really listen to your advice. I believe the future will reward the ones who took the jump.
because m3s and c63s have no problems. i worked at rusnak mercedes dealer ships and bmw dealerships and see many ovver 100k miles on many m3s and c63s. the owners always come on time for service thats why. Everytine the computer says oil change and brake and tires as well as service a and B
Ignore this troll "David Pineda". He is just copying and pasting this reply multiple times. He is also a liar since I am a BMW Level 1 Master Technician for the past 7 years. If what he says is true I would be out of work. Also the new M3 platform is coming out this year and I guarantee you it's going to have lots of issues being a first year new model.
To be honest, I find DCTs too complicated for their benefit of fast shifting. Especially since someone who knows can play with the locking of the torque converter to make a classic automatic transmission be as fast-shifting. That's why the ZF 8HP is so good, because its simplicity along with its versatility allow it to be used in an extremely wide range of cars, from 3-cylinder RWD BMWs to RAMS and even SRT Demons, with the extra transbrake feature! edit: just discovered that the MCT 9-speed automatic transmission of the AMGs has a set of gears for engaging and another one for disengaging each of the 9 gears! Too effin' complicated just for fast shifts!
People are definitely scared of buying the Alfa from a reliability standpoint. I brought up the urge to get one and the spam of articles people posted telling me not to buy it was insane. I'm still teeter tottering on buying one.
Alfa unreliability is an old school myth. I owned a E39 540i and it was so much more less reliable than my QV. Took the plunge on a QV last year. Just do it, you won’t regret it, if you like spirited canyon driving.
Thought about getting a Q4 from copart for my wife, but biggest concern is parts availability. Rockauto.com doesn't even have spark plugs listed for the Ti. You can make that three people that would buy a manual Ti that sounds like an Abarth.
Without a doubt the Model 3 is literally the best daily driver EVER made. I’m a Model X owner and I’ve had a blast with mine. I will forever have a Tesla in some form in my garage. Then I will wash my GT3 with gasoline and go to the mountains on the weekend because I’m a gear-head/tech/engineering nerd. Not a “Green” lover. Love what you like, drive what you love!
I owned a base 2017 Giulia until recently. It was very good. I sold it only due to time for a change and my distrust of Stellantis and poor resale value. I replaced it with a GTI, now modded.
we got a model 3. the instant torque is cool, the indicator stalk is just wierd (why did they feel they needed to reinvent that?). i dont like the autopilot, something about the way it drives just feels wrong and uncomfortable. performance and the way it drives is about the same as our tuned mk 7 golf R (ECU and DSG flash), the biggest improvement the golf had was from the DSG tune so the shift mapping is not always hunting for 1000-1500rpm. personally they are both about the same to me, i dont have a preference for one over the other.
@kieran finney you're right! Maintenance is a huge problem with teslas for now. But in the future it won't be. You're also right that you shouldn't be hauling horses across country with a Tesla. You're also right that you'd have to stop to charge from illinois to Florida. In the last case I'd argue that if you're driving alone in that time, you should probably pull over and sleep. And even if you're not, maybe you should go to the bathroom or grab some food. Anyway everything you've said has nothing to do with my original comment. Thanks!
@kieran finney I stated that there have been lots of teslas in illinois and ohio since the model s was released. Nothing you said changes that...and I'm not sure why you think it does. To call it a city car must be a joke. Yes it is better for people who LIVE in cities (because theres better access to super chargers). But their use goes far beyond the city given 300 miles of range. Yes you would have to stop and charge, which may result in longer stops than you, in particular, are used to. But to say that prevents their use in road trips is a very narrow view. A person who owns a tesla can spend less money over the life of the vehicle than someone who buys something else. Here's a somewhat bad example one of my friends recently thought through: he makes payments in a Tacoma. If he bought a tesla at the same time, paying the same interest rate, he'd have paid for the difference in price through the money saved in gas by the time the 5 year loan was done. Now obviously this varies depending on what you drive, and how much you drive, but it is not always more expensive to own a tesla. I spend a lot of time driving through the countryside, past tens of thousands of acres of farms. Yes, most people in these areas own pickup trucks, but they also own sedans. Why not a Tesla instead?
kieran finney very long road trips definitely take longer in an EV, but don’t generally require much extra driving distance, given the number of Superchargers along major highways.
You did hit a nail on head...giulia ti with an abarth sound. And miata like manual. I,ust bought anew ti with18000 discount for less then accord sport 2.0. Great CaR. Wish it had abarth sound and the manual.
Ironically, the best sports sedan I can think of that's not a Giulia, is the Honda Civic Si in my driveway. When I bought it at the end of '18 I was shopping for 3 months for a sporty car that had at optimally at least 4 doors. I was immediately disappointed by the BRZ/86. Ford's hatchbacks were quick but didn't feel good to drive (and the RS costs waaayyyy too much for my budget), besides Alfo Romeo's Giulia QV (which I couldn't afford) the only other place I could think of was Honda which at the time I despised. I finally gave up and test drove the only Manual transmissioned car on their lot which was a 2018 Civic Si sedan in Black (I ordered Red). I was surprised at the roominess of it being a tall 6' 3" and the practicality of the car. Big trunk, space for 5 adults (as long as the back seaters are less than 6'), a highway rating of 38mpg (currently averaging 40-42mpg/per tank) and the shifter is so much fun to row, it's light, nimble, and handles just as well as the Type R. Yes I have driven a Type R, amazing to drive, but with $1700 of wheels and tires, I know have a lighter, wider set of traction than the Type R, which performs better. I'm only missing the extra 100 horsepower which is not worth an extra $10,000.
Ive thought about this but i think it would just another 'terrible driver' episode if they did, and the guy who does the beep over expletives would earn overtime.
Such a shame that its uploaded right before im going to bed! Now i have to think the whole night about what youve talked! But now tomorrow is going to be a good day!
To answer Derek's question "Why would anyone buy anything but a Tesla?" Simple, loads of people live in situations where they cannot charge their car at home, and Tesla starts sending you nasty emails if you use the Superchargers too much. I live in apartments. I currently have a large garage next to my apartment, which is unusual. My garage actually has power outlets, but I have no control over the circuit breakers, and I have no doubt using those outlets to charge an electric car would get me in trouble. So no electric cars for me.
Don't spread the BS. You MIGHT get those emails, when charging your Model S with unlimited supercharging only from your closest supercharger. The Model 3 doesn't come with free supercharging, so you won't be getting those emails regardless on what Supercharger you charge. You would only get credit card charges with the Model 3. Then again, charging with residential electricity rates is a big part of the cost savings in an EV, so it is understandable for people who cannot charge at home. Especially goes for countries with expensive electricity or cheap fossil fuels.
@@rkan2 Where did I complain about the cost? I said I have nowhere to reliably plug it in. And loads of people live in dwellings without any way to install charging equipment. You Tesla freaks always get bent out of shape about the most trivial shit. It is 100% true that they have sent emails to lots of owners about using the Supercharger too much. How is it BS if you admit that they do it? insideevs.com/news/328361/tesla-sends-out-supercharger-abuse-emails-many-model-s-owners-not-impressed/
Next episode: Personally, I don’t get the hype that super cars such as Lambos and Ferrari’s get. Without a single manual transmission in any super car manufacturers lineup, I feel like modern super car manufacturers don’t prioritize the fun of driving anymore. I’m 13, I’ve never driven any car before, so maybe I am wrong. I’m basing my information on reviewers thoughts with a heavy bias towards Cammisa’s reviews. Most reviewers say that their mouths hurt from smiling while driving a super car such as a Huracán, but I feel like they smile because they know they CAN go fast, but aren’t ACTUAL going fast. I think that you’d have more fun in a simple sports car such as a mx5 or a Toyota 86. Could you explain to me the hype behind modern super cars?
A Balakrishnan I can definitely see what you mean. To say that those cars are not exciting to drive because they don’t have a manual is a little far fetched, but you have a point.
Also even though you’re not old enough to drive, I feel that your opinion is still valuable just because our generation(ish, I’m 18) is going to have a huge effect on car culture.
ive had a w202, w203, w204, X204 and a W211 and i gotta say the W211 E class had the slowest feeling steering from all of them. it felt solid and isolating but it just wasnt great. Also i think the w211's had a steering rack leak issue which was like $1,100+ to fix which is not worth it unless its an E55 amg
Interesting, i too had a W202, X204(still have) and W211 (i also had a W123 and still have another W212 but that one is an AMG so it's different) and i could not say that it was slower than any of the others. If felt really precise but heavy compared to the others. I had the W211 for around 200 000km and 8 years, and no leak at the steering (and from the forums i don't remember reading anything bothering). The W211's steering even felt more precise and faster than the variable assistance steering of a W212 i had later. (My comparisson is a part of a road where there is a speed limit of 130 km/h with curves)
Hey I like my M340i! The Model is so soulless in my opinion, but I get it's appeal. My G20 might be a fast luxo barge now, but I still enjoy my commute. FYI - you see quite a few M cars in the Phoenix metro. Almost the same amount as Teslas.
They not selling any because of depreciation and poor interior compared to competitors. I'm going to wait another 3 years and then buy one for 20k. I'm not worried about reliability, that's a modern myth.
Count me in for the manual Giulia.....
I've had a 4 cylinder Giulia for 2 years and it makes pretty much every single day feel like Christmas. Get one while you can because soon they will all be iCars. Installing a $400 JB4 gave me a Draggy clocked 4.5 sec to 60 easy.
Giulia owner here! The steering is jarring at first but you do get used to it. You learn to steer with your fingers and not your arms on the freeway because of how reactive the steering is. Once you've calibrated your brain, it becomes pretty relaxing to drive
Just get a Tesla and hold your hand(s) lightly on the wheel.
@@rkan2 Tesla's suck
I maxed my Giulia TI, the steering gets super tight above 130. It works well, not twitchy.
This is very interesting subject as I find the fast steering on all Alfas for the past 30 years the best thing about the brand, they are fun even at slow speeds. However after driving the Alfas exclusively for almost two decades I do not see why other manufacturers do not use this setup, especially those who pretend to be a sport car brands like BMW for example.
As for the argument that a fast steering can be dangerous at higher speeds, this is really not an issue. My wife drives her small Lancia with a very slow steering rack and when we go to the seaside she drives my Alfa sometimes on a highway at 140kmh, she says nothing but I see that first few kilometres she makes few sharp movements as she need some time to relax and hold the wheel with her fingers instead of grabbing it hard, but few minutes later everything feels normal again.
The thing is you buy 400+hp car and you get slow steering as there is a possibility that you will kill yourself while driving fast on autoban. Nonsensical really.
@@rkan2
Depends on why you buy a car.
If you buy a car to drive, buy the Alfa.
If you buy a car to be driven, buy the Tesla.
2017 Giulia QV, not a single problem over 3 years! Rev limiter hits at 7100 rpm btw.
Quick steering can help a lot when catching oversteer.
This is why I love Jason, he’s the reason I found the Quadrofolgio and it became my dream car because of his praises of it and it’s drop dead gorgeous looks. He created my love for new cars and the passion that I now have for cars in general! Love the podcast as well!
ISSIMI is hands down in my top 3 favourite UA-cam channels
same here!
Jason is a go-to guy for automotive opinion. Entertaining, non-condescending ,enlightening, educating,knowledgeable, and honest. Like that neighbor with a great,multi car,garage you wish you had on a Saturday afternoon. 😊
The show gets better by every episode. Btw I own a 2018 Giulia ti sport Q2 and its the best car I’ve ever driven by far. I also owned an 2000 Alfa 156 2.0 :)
That's my boy!! Nice pizzas, by the way!! 😋
Also own a 2018 Ti Sport. It is sublime.
@@apostolostvable I own a 2017, I agree.
you should try a 156 with busso-engine ;-)
@@norbertkowalski8453 my first car was an Alfa 156 2.0. Then I had a 2.5 v6. It was glorious
Thank you for talking about electronic brakes. One of the things I tend to do when driving any car is come to so smooth a stop that the "inertial snap" is either imperceptible or nonexistent. Some of these newer brake-by-wire cars make that impossible to do, and it bothers me to no end. Manufacturers really need to work on that.
They update the software and is much much better now. I owned 2016 Giulia and I cant even tell difference now between normal and elek. brakes. But it is true that l used to it :D
23:33- that's the moment Derek nailed the reason to own the Quadrifoglio. I've got one, and it's ABSOLUTELY an emotional roller coaster. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Hi. For me, the show might as well be easily called "95 year old scholar & 12 year old street wise a*** talk cars because they know shit" and I would still watch it like it's my daily prayer. It's so refreshing, educating and passionate that I find myself endlessly craving for more. I only met the same level of passion watching the videos of Chris Harris. You're the only 3 people left around able to talk about cars passionately in an articulate manner, distilling in words complex emotions. And you are geeky mechanics and I love that part too. This is something he doesn't (not on camera, though he seems at least as knowledgeable). The way you complement each other in term of dynamics (I really don't care if there is some sort of a script behind the talk) is very, very, very, very nice. That being said, I congratulate you on the idea, the way you deliver your content and the substance and novelty you still bring to an old subject. THANK YOU! Words cannot express how rewarding it is. It's like going to a veeery fancy restaurant with one item on the menu, never the same, but still the same: extraordinary! A deep, deep feeling of gratitude towards you guys! You're not making me just this day, but all the previous as well.
Cammisa Content = day made
Thanks! :)
One thing about the Quadrifoglio is the depreciation is insane. You can buy a 2-3 year old low miles in the low 40s.
2018 is great to buy now, it has apple car play
most of them are buybacks though so idk, it's risky.
@@sturdyvw I bought a brand new one (TI), 2 years of ownership 4 things broke: something broke in turbo assembly (took them 2 months to fix), they couldn't figure, waited for a new one from Italy, leather on the dash broke, sunroof broke, sensor cover fell out.
Before I had 5 years of ownership of Toyota and Honda - 0 things ever broke.
Big difference. But just as big of a difference is the driving experience.
@@Vampire_born_in_2006 But then you have to drive a toyota or a Honda....
Jason good to hear your comments on the Giulia Quadrofoglio once again. Excellent job on the head to head video with the competition three years ago. Didn't you say in that video review that dynamically the Giulia Quadrofoglio was perfect and the M-3 is a decade behind in dynamics? Jonny Lieberman agreed with you. Derek I relate to your emotional connection to the car. Great hearing you share your thoughts and emotions on the Giulia Quadrofoglio. More importantly, your conclusion that the Tesla Model 3 is what you recommend for others is spot on. It takes a special audience to appreciate the Quadrofoglio. You're in excellent company. (I've driven the Proton Saga. LOL)
On that note, I've had zero issues on a 2018 Quadrofoglio two years on. Earlier 2016/2017 models were pre-production models rushed out for the press journalists and had teething problems with their software. These issues have largely been resolved on later models. FCA spent over 5 billion euros on this bespoke car (based on the Giorgio platform) and rushed this car out in 2.5 years so naturally press models did not have all the bugs resolved. It's not a Lexus but the Lexus does not drive like this Italian beauty (or beast in race mode).
Another moment of silence for the lack of a manual transmission?
because m3s and c63s have no problems. i worked at rusnak mercedes dealer ships and bmw dealerships and see many ovver 100k miles on many m3s and c63s. the owners always come on time for service thats why. Everytine the computer says oil change and brake and tires as well as service a and B
I cannot bear to buy a new car but if I had to, Alfa Gulia would be it. It stirs my soul.
Tesla is cool too but it’s a practical choice, especially if you have a long commute.
I am for the Alfa!
2017 Aprilia Factory Tuono
2001 MB E55 AMG
1977 MB 450 SL
Audio level seemed very low in this episode.
I noticed it too. For me who's hearing is not the best from years of working in high noise factory, the eco and the low volume makes it hard to hear what the lads are speaking of, especially when they are whispering to each other.
Please fix this!
I'm an old Carmudgeon nice to see Jason give V6 engines some praise, most people hate them. Me being the old & poor carmudgeon that I am has never experienced any of these new/er cars/electric, the newest car I've ever owned/driven was an 06 Toyota Tacoma quadcab 4x4. My Tacoma was a nice truck, but I hated the drive by wire throttle, I could "confuse" the computer by getting on and off the throttle too fast for it, if the right rear tire slipped on ice, a Man Hole cover, etc, while taking a right turn it would confuse the computer and wouldn't let the truck "go" until it had traction again, truck had little computer quirks I didn't like, computers are suppose to be fast, but I sometimes found myself waiting for the computer to make up it's mind. Give me drive by cable throttle, mechanical steering and an 7 speed manual trans, that I can drive, not some computer! YES I said 7 speed manual trans, I want to row them gears!
I owned a Suzuki DR 350 dual sport, it was a 6 speed bike, I still found myself wishing I had another gear at highway speeds.
I'd probably buy something like an Alfa, I like that turbo V6, if they made it in a manual trans and I could afford it, but I can't afford something like that....
So I drive a 78 Datsun king cab 620 pickup with a built Buick v6 engine swap, 2004r overdrive trans(wished it was manual), 411:1 rear gears, dual exhaust, front/rear anti sway bars, good tires shocks, front air dam, built it myself, it outruns about half of what's out there, surprises many people, sounds good, is a blast to drive, never gets me tickets, cause it seems to "confuse" the cops, It's a total sleeper, they look at it and scratch their heads, they "can't believe it was going that fast" that's good enough for me. ;)
Here in Switzerland I can buy a 40K km (60k miles) MANUAL Giulia Quadrifoglio for 50K Swiss francs ($25k)
I only say this for the cruelty of it, yes. 🤣
I've got a 2.5 24v busso on my 166 and i can say the between 6 and 7k rpm it has an incredible sound even with stock exhaust.
I drove a Model 3 for my birthday, and I was very surprised on how well it handled and how great the steering was for being epas. It was a fun car to drive.
People who don't understand physics and basic economics often miss why the M3 can be such a great car... It is basicallyva mid-engined saloon, with the best consunption/economy of any car currently on sale. Yes, it is possible a Toyota can be cheaper in your 3-10 years having the car. However the Toyota ain't mid-engined...
fun compared to a Corola?
My favorite car show on UA-cam. Real car guys who understand cars and can rationally discuss and articulate what they like and why, honestly. Keep it up.
One of the most interesting videos I've ever seen about the importance of emotion in a car. It is probably no coincidence that I own 2 cars that are both extremely emotional, namely a Giulia Quadrifoglio automatic from 2017 and an Abarth 595C Competizione with manual gearbox from 2019. I use the Abarth for short distances (city, B-roads, mountain trips) and the Giulia for longer distances (usually on the highway) and both perform extremely well in their own area. In terms of emotion, the Abarth is certainly not inferior to the Giulia and even superior at slow speeds. There is no problem whatsoever in terms of reliability: nothing has gone wrong with the Abarth, while the Giulia only needed a software update for the fuel pump. Oh yes, I did replace the weak battery (German made...) to avoid electrical problems. However, if I had to drive up and down to a workplace in traffic jams every day, I would not want to use either car but perhaps switch to an electric car.
For those interested in Alfa but leery, do yourselves a favor and either buy or lease a 2018 and on Giulia Ti Sport with the performance package (LSD, road dampers). I've had one for two years and it is utter bliss to drive for a relatively reasonable price (mid-40's, though I got an insane discount). Not so much as one hiccup thus far besides one software recall that took one hour at the dealer. The chassis, the handling/steering, the high-end torque, the seating position and of course the looks come together for a brilliant, brilliant car. Every single time I park and get out, I always have to turn around and look at it when I lock up. Can make a mundane errand or commute enjoyable.
I'm also a "fringe" buyer where I care about how emotive the car is and how I feel while driving it or looking at it. What's eye opening is how many people around my age (35) don't care about cars and/or driving experience. It's become a remedial chore. I think they touched upon this in the video where the enthusiasm and passion for cars has slowly been eroding in the last 10-15 years.
This episode was timely. I've been looking at used Guilia Ti variants for the last month. They've dropped as low as ~20K. Of course the reason I'm looking for one is that none of my other 6 Alfa run. I've got 3 164, including two 24 valves, and a GTV6 that is about to get a 3.0 12v swap. Oh, and another 4 Busso V6s as spares...It's a sickness. And, yes, I've looked at the Tesla. It's in my future...but not yet.
Good effort. You need a 166, and a 156 V6 manual. Need. You can thank me later.
A Tesla will be my next car, but rn I have a Giulia TI 2017. Got it used for 25k. I love it so much.
Update on this, fuck the Tesla. Alfa all the way. I’ve driven a model s P85D and the feeling doesn’t compare, it can do 0-60 in 3 but it doesn’t compare to the joy of my 4 cyl alfa. I didn’t expect to feel this way, but over the past year the alfa has stolen my heart.
Why doesn’t the Lexus GSF come up in conversation regarding sport sedans? The NA V8, Toyota reliability and oodles of old school character.
It's really not a sports car by any stretch of the imagination.
(Personally i really appreciate the GS -as 450h! That's the right "character" for that yacht and a very appealing package.
However for a sport sedan, in the true sence of the word, there were only bmws for years [decades] until they fattened up. Luckily as of right now, the king is finally back, with the Giulietta / Giulia from the 50ies and 60ies being regarded as the first "sport sedans" and creator of this class of automobile.)
Hit the nail on the head. Tesla as a Daily + Manual, Naturally Aspirated Weekend car = Perfect 2 car garage.
Unless you need a truck - that can complicate things. I like the truck + Miata combination with some motorcycles on the side.
Think of it this way: For the giulia, the emotional gratification is immediate, while the throttle response is gradual. For the tesla, the throttle response is immediate, but the emotional gratification is gradual. Electrics started out weird to me but damn, I have a model 3 dual motor performance and by the week the thing induces laughs far more than the week before. It's hard to explain, but It's more understanding the different language that electrics use to deliver the thrills. We know where to find the excitement in gasoline vehicles, but for electrics it takes some getting used to. Now I can appreciate both. (The other vehicle is a heavily modded turbo thing running on E85)
"I'm dreaming of a [CENSORED.]" Heh, you guys get to guess what I said... 😈
I think I'd get flagged with an honest response
This thread is gonna go 0 to racist in 1.4 seconds.
Not gonna go there.
I think it's just "White Christmas" but because you've been in SoCal for so long you find the idea of snowy roads offensive
Sean Taylor SoCal?! How dare you?! Never!!
Watching this a year later as a new Alfa Giulia QV owner and am clapping and cheering every sentence! Cheers guys!
Great discussion on how Tesla capitalized on the paradox of choice. I also agree that Jason is correct about California being way ahead technologically but it's California that's killing off manual/ naturally aspirated sports cars with emission regulations.
Love my Alfa! It’s incredible to drive.
Thanks for putting this show together guys. I've enjoyed watching through the back catalogue of both the Carmudgeon and Care & Feeding shows. Very informative and the cheekiness is fun.
If these cars were women (or men)
Alfa Romeo:
Comes from a wealthy family.
Has a Bachelor's Degree from USC
Sexy af (also in good shape)
Sense of humor can offend some people (Not PC)
Accustomed to a certain lifestyle (High maintnence)
Bad temper (Always will try to get the last word in arguments)
Very fashionable
Can be classy but they'll pop off if they need to
Amazing in bed
Loud af
Street smart
Swears like Samuel L. Jackson
Has no problem backing you up in a fight but will also call you out on your bullshit
Tesla:
Comes from a wealthy and very connected family from Silicon Valley
Went to boarding school
Very intellegent (Doctorate from Oxford)
Started a business at a young age
Great in bed
Not very emotional and also quite stoic
Always knows what to say (Smooth talking)
Very refined and classy
Struggles to see things through others point of view
Vegan
Vewy, vewy quiet
Guess which one I'd prefer.
I'd also say that the Alfa loves wine (= gas) and gets drunk at times! Write this one on the ''Accustomed to a certain lifestyle (high maintenance)'' point! ;-D
You forgot to state that the tesla prefers to play polo at the country club
But the Tesla Model 3 is not a pretty car to look at, at least to my eyes. Kinda like Daffy Duck when he got his bill blown off by Bugs. I'd still own one, though, if there were better infrastructure support for EVs in my area. I deal with some very cold temps in the winter, also.
@@wisdomntshalintshali3296 Good suggestion
The Alfa sounds like the prefect girl for me (wife material). The Tesla on the other hand sounds lame and boring.
Hey guys just wanted to say I enjoy the videos, great job. I am a service manager at a multi line luxury car dealership. I agree during a new car lease and when a car is under warranty a tesla is cheaper to own maintenance costs are lower when they are new. The common misconception with electric cars is "I will never have to do oil changes, I won't have any maintenance". I worked for Nissan for years and electric cars are only marginally less expensive to maintain than traditional vehicles. Electric cars require brake fluid changes every two years just like traditional vehicles, alignments, tires also they are more complex. When the warranty expired on many Nissan leafs a common issue is the heat stopped working, or the a/c. The electronic grid heater box is over $2000 to repair, we don't see issues like that on regular sedans with under 100,000 miles on them, also electronic a/c compressors required for a/c costs twice as much as it does for a gas vehicle. Another common problem with electric cars in northern states is brake system rust. Most of the time the electric motor stops the car so the brakes rarely get used. We have calipers start sticking and rotors rusting that will not pass state safety inspections. Add the fact that tesla is not a reliable car company to begin with and I think ten years from now you will not be able to give away a used tesla. They know technology not how to build cars. If you want an electric car a safer bet will be an electric Mercedes or BMW, VW or Honda for instance. These car companies have been making door handles, window regulators, seat tracks ect for 50 years and know how to make things last. Teslas are falling apart during the warranty period just wait until the first electric motor gets replaced out of warranty. The cost is over $10,000 on Volvo t8 models and they fail before 100,000 miles. The idea of leasing an electric car is great but if you are going to buy one I would recommend buying from an established car manufacturer like the Bolt or audi E tron etc. Food for thought....
Might i add something: While all other manufacturers provide their spare parts to non-brand/dealership-workshops (i miss the english word for "free workshops") basically anyone who wants to buy a spare part, Tesla refuses to do so in almost all cases.
I am with DTS on this one. I will continue to both commute to work and drive for pleasure with my 30+ year old Sciroccos, 25 year old Miata, and 15 year old carbureted sport bikes. I prefer my vehicles to move my soul, not just my body. No mere appliances for me.
Alfa needs to stand out more than they already do - in typical Alfa fashion they have a perfect recipe but only cook it 90%. They need glorious na engine noise, dump the turbos, and a manual transmission. Not much else needed for the Giulia other than maybe some reliability baked in...
Jason is right that all sport sedans are the same these days. AWD/RWD, twin turbo V6/V8, various states of tune, fast shifting automatic transmissions, and lots of tech inside. They are all essentially the same.
I drive an Alfa sport sedan - lightweight, Busso V6, direct steering, manual transmission. That is the basic recipe
Manual trans in the 4C. Rich man's Miata. Who would be up for that?
@@dougrobinson8602 I would for sure. True Alfas are manual. My 155 V6 ONLY came in a manual, as God intended.
So include a manual even though less than 8% of there potential customers are willing to buy one. There is a reason why many sporty car manufacturers don't even give the option for manual anymore. It's not financially feasible.
Love that DTS cited Jonny Lieberman’s speculation that the Alfa clutch pedal cut off feet (of test dummy’s) in crash tests. JC reminded me of an article I read in 1988 where the author postulated that the then new NSX and 300ZX twin turbo ushered in a new golden age of cars that we readers would look back on and long for nostalgically.
Hydraulic racks have had variable ratios cut into them for a long time, so when you're on center you get one slow ratio for low speed/parking/cruising stability and another ratio near the ends of the rack that's faster.
True, although as i understand it, he was not talking about the ratio, but the assistance. (how light, heavy you have to work to turn the wheel) But that also was done already with hydraulic steering. I have owned one that did that, and still own another one that has hydraulic power steering with variable assitance depending on the speed.
You're 100% right about a manual for the Giulia. I'm not buying one only because it's automatic only. I'm an Alfisti and love the Giulia otherwise.
Absolutely agree w/you guys! I'll always drive a "driver's car". I own a QV Nring, and I'll try to never drive any boring cars today, including all EV's.
I own a Giulia TI q4 ‘19 and I couldn't have made a better choice.
La meccanica delle emozioni, it’true.
Great episode! I have a ‘17 Giulia Ti Lusso, ‘18 Model 3 LR, and a from new ‘92 164S.
What I really want is a Giulia with the Busso and manual. That would be sublime!
I am holding onto my 2018 WRX manual simply because there is no other choice in the price range that can replace that. Manual 4door with AWD and good gas millage is very rare these days.
Why would you want a manual when yoy can get a car with one gear?
@@rkan2 you wouldnt get it.
Derek, I don't know which 2 Alfas you had just because of the Busso V6, but my Busso was not the only reason, it was the design as well. You see, a '96 GTV still looks cool and unique.
Thanks guys for those nice car talks. "Alfa is the best and the rest is shit" or "It's an Alfa or the new way of driving"...I like that kind of arguments. Rare to find (excluding AR forums). But in the way you put it, they're true.
New listener and the first 13 min of Jason translating what he felt driving into why he felt it is 10/10 good listenin.
In a comparison with the 330i Car and Driver did get 0-60 of 4.6 seconds on the Giulia Ti Sport Q4. The benefit of 93 over 91 octane gas perhaps. I recently purchased a 2020 Giulia Ti Sport Q4 and I agree with Derek's driving impression. Very engaging car easy to fall in love with - I did. The Q4 is rear drive biased and works very well in this regard. I live in the Northeast so AWD is a nice to have when the option is Rear or All Wheel drive. You can always get an aftermarket exhaust to make the experience complete.
I feel like in this new era of the next revolution of the car.The way of loving cars and even the character of the car is changing. Issue is, most enthusiasts are still clinging onto the old way and common practices. Its the mindsets that are lagging beyond, cant understand anything outside of whats already known, no intention of progression or change.
I’m passionate cars, and I’ve only driven manual cars all my life. I used to piss on the Model 3 Performance... until I drove it. It definitely feels like the future and it’s still fun in a more “digital” way. Bonus that it doesn’t have a transmission, so I didn’t sell out to automatics. But add in the charging at my house and no maintenance, and it’s so STUPID fast... it is the perfect daily driver even for people passionate about driving. I love tech and the Model 3 still hits my emotions. Still gonna get a Corvette Z51 convertible in the garage for the weekends when I miss exhaust notes and tunnels though...
Jason is the ONLY person on UA-cam that gets to call me a dumbf@ck and I keep watching. I'm not sure why. I met him at a car show in Monterey a few years back where he was showing his MB 190 2.3 16V and he was just as much of a curmudgeon.
PREACH IT !! Your best episode ever !! It's like listening to my inner most thoughts - the ones l rarely speak out loud.
you guys should check out mountainpass performance. they do some really cool things with tesla. No engine noise still, but drifting in silence is still pretty cool :)
I know this was from 2020. But hey, most of America can't afford a $74k car. Coming from a 2008 Mazda 3 with 131k on it... So I can relate here. Love my Alfa 2021 Ti Sport and you've explained why. I was drooling over M3s. But got the Alfa instead. Totally wanted a Tesla, but I really wanted something a bit more fun. EV will be next, I'm sure. So this review was great to hear and helped justify my decision.
I have owned 2 Giulia's, (2017 & 2019) both of them have had ZERO issues. They are great cars. Super performance out of a 2.0 and great gas mileage. I would never buy a model 3 Tesla, they are extremely unreliable. Far worse than Alfa Romeo, which does not deserve the reputation for their new cars that they have been getting.
I'm really surprised that you didn't have any issue with 2017 model. I personally own 2018 Giulia TI and had radiator and turbo replaced due to leaking (17k miles). I heard 2017 ones have way more problems. And I think this is why I don't recommend buying Alfas as much as I love driving them.
@@225lee99 I owned the 2017 and had zero issues, my best friends family owns a 2017 without any issues. We are now leasing a 2019 and have had no issues with it as well. I can only speak to the reliability of the Giulia's we've owned and know about. Yours obviously had issues. I'm sure every car brand has issues, no brand is absolutely perfect.
shout out for Jason's always spot on engine sounds
That VR6 sound was shockingly good
Truly honest feelings, insight and discussion. I think it can be summed up in Jason's description of the current M3 i.e. " the 3-Series can go FUCK itself". I really appreciate such visceral and succinct quantification of the vehicle, Thanks Jason.... and Derek too.
I have to say that you hit the nail on the head. These are the only two sedans that I would ever consider. I've, so far, put off swapping my manual Grand Sport for one...so far.
4:56 fluid dynamics *and* thermogoddamnits?!
Is ISSIMI an accredited university?
This whole episode is literally a recap of my last 3 months of car searching, and coming to pretty much the same conclusions. Heart is in Giulia,with Model 3 or C63 being the others. And with the Giulia, total tossup on Quad vs Ti, leaning to the Ti, already looking to spec an exhaust. The only other item I’ve looked at is the Stelvio, and it’s great for utility, but don’t know if I like the gunslit back window. My brain is currently on used 2018/2019 Ti Sport, since I don’t see taking the hit on new, and I prefer the drive selector to be the physical clock wheel, not the virtual wheel that resets to Normal every start. And agree, this will probably be my last gas car, so make it count.
As for the cheap Quads, check the car fax and see how many service/lemons there are, pretty much all of them have had 12-17 service records and/or are buybacks.
lease a quadropholio
I leased an 18 Ti Sport Q4 with LSD and have run it with a JB4 for 18k miles. It's been an absolutely incredible car and in my opinion has no peers in the class. Makes every day feel special, unlike any modern German car.
@@frumpd63 Lease is the way to go, to my mind RWD is a bit more fun though. I test drove more powerful Germans (CLS550, 235, 440, S5) - even with extra power the drive wasn't that enjoyable.
As a person who’s currently shopping for a used Giulia, the wait for a fun to drive electric car that is not an isolation tank continues.
They are spot on about the tesla 3p. No servicing and for a tech nerd, those OTA updates are like a xmas every month! No regrets about buying one. Having said that, from a pure driving point, I’d still rate the ‘98 manual mx5 as my favourite. More fun than my last 3 series or any other car that I’ve driven
I found what you said about the GTI’s steering very interesting. I had a type S Acura before and I always felt like the steering was a little darty at really high speeds compared to the GTI I now which feels rock solid at very high speeds. The weird part is that the gti feels like it’s steering is just as quick on twisty backroads.
Thanks, I love this channel!
So I have a manual E90 335i (hydraulic steering) and found that the 16:1 steering ratio felt slow. Swapped in the 12.5:1 rack from the M3. Even though the steering is heavier, having the quick ratio and the feel of hydraulic is divine. It's heavier than the M3 one would be. The M3 includes a servotronic system that adjusts assistance based on vehicle speed. So you can have adjustable assistance hydraulic steering.
I thought speed-sensing steering was common. My 370Z has it but it's a popular mod to defeat it for track or drifting use
@@dielaughing73 it probably is. Not sure how common it is in hydraulic racks. I know it was available as an option on e90's but I'd prefer consistent steering feel. You can also code the assistance curve if you have an experienced coder.
The Quad electrics were solved when this video was done. I laugh out loud when I drive my QV. My QV is my fav car ever, over several Ferraris, AMG, BMW M, and while I still own two Porsches including a 997.2 GT3 and a 991.1 GTS I would pick the QV over everything, ever.
Not sure if it's just this video, but the sound was very hard to hear. It's a talk show, I can't hear the talk. So it's just a show.
Interesting point as to why people are not buying them. I am considering an Alfa Quad as may next car. I find it interesting that when I look through the classifieds there are low mileage fairly new cars with quite a few owners sometimes as much as 4 for a car under 2 years old.
Love watchin these episodes but come on Jason. Torque converters are more then fluid couplings. Fluid couplings do not have a stator and thus can not multiply torque. Torque convertors with their stator provide torque multiplication right up to the point where impeller speed meets turbine speed (also known as coupling speed). At this point the "lock up" torque convertor "locks up".
Plus a DCT is NOT an "automatic transmission". DCT's are a form of automated manual transmission.
Love all the stuff you guys do. Wish you would do more "Head 2 Head" type stuff. Loved your H2H episodes! All the best to you guys and your future projects!
I have a Tesla Model 3 Performance. Jason is right. I have 2013 Audi S5 Cabriolet for some fun and a 2001 BMW 540i 6 Speed for the anachronism. I have to say, I'm starting to see into the emotional quotient of the Tesla which is more subtle. Things like track mode and other factors evolve in the Tesla, the car has been becomes more individualistic. The aftermarket for this car has exploded and that is part of the emotional quotient.
Buying my second Giulia TI sport tmrw. First car was low optioned awd, this new car is fully loaded except advanced drivers assistance and rwd. LSD and adaptive dampers.
Fantastic discussion. I think you nailed the reasons people choose one type of car over the other. I'd like to see more like this
Problem is that every real car enthusiast loves how the Quadrifoglio drives, apparently everyone also knows it's the best driverfocust car and the car to buy but nobody really buy's it. That's a shame because the M3's and C63's of the world are selling like pancakes these days. Guess your viewers don't really listen to your advice. I believe the future will reward the ones who took the jump.
because m3s and c63s have no problems. i worked at rusnak mercedes dealer ships and bmw dealerships and see many ovver 100k miles on many m3s and c63s. the owners always come on time for service thats why. Everytine the computer says oil change and brake and tires as well as service a and B
Ignore this troll "David Pineda". He is just copying and pasting this reply multiple times. He is also a liar since I am a BMW Level 1 Master Technician for the past 7 years. If what he says is true I would be out of work. Also the new M3 platform is coming out this year and I guarantee you it's going to have lots of issues being a first year new model.
To be honest, I find DCTs too complicated for their benefit of fast shifting. Especially since someone who knows can play with the locking of the torque converter to make a classic automatic transmission be as fast-shifting. That's why the ZF 8HP is so good, because its simplicity along with its versatility allow it to be used in an extremely wide range of cars, from 3-cylinder RWD BMWs to RAMS and even SRT Demons, with the extra transbrake feature!
edit: just discovered that the MCT 9-speed automatic transmission of the AMGs has a set of gears for engaging and another one for disengaging each of the 9 gears! Too effin' complicated just for fast shifts!
Jason we need a review on the GTA when it comes out
Exactly
I feel when this was recorded the Giulia GTA wasn't announced
Better and better every show! Thanks guys!
I cannot... CANNOT believe this has 33k views. It should be twenty times this number.
People are definitely scared of buying the Alfa from a reliability standpoint. I brought up the urge to get one and the spam of articles people posted telling me not to buy it was insane. I'm still teeter tottering on buying one.
Alfa unreliability is an old school myth. I owned a E39 540i and it was so much more less reliable than my QV. Took the plunge on a QV last year. Just do it, you won’t regret it, if you like spirited canyon driving.
Thought about getting a Q4 from copart for my wife, but biggest concern is parts availability. Rockauto.com doesn't even have spark plugs listed for the Ti.
You can make that three people that would buy a manual Ti that sounds like an Abarth.
Make it four. Damn, that would be a really good car!!
Thank you Jason for being honest about the fact that you (like the majority of car drivers) oppose lane splitting because you are jealous
God I hope you lads do the episode on SUVs/crossovers. I'd be so pumped
Without a doubt the Model 3 is literally the best daily driver EVER made. I’m a Model X owner and I’ve had a blast with mine. I will forever have a Tesla in some form in my garage. Then I will wash my GT3 with gasoline and go to the mountains on the weekend because I’m a gear-head/tech/engineering nerd. Not a “Green” lover. Love what you like, drive what you love!
I owned a base 2017 Giulia until recently. It was very good. I sold it only due to time for a change and my distrust of Stellantis and poor resale value. I replaced it with a GTI, now modded.
we got a model 3. the instant torque is cool, the indicator stalk is just wierd (why did they feel they needed to reinvent that?). i dont like the autopilot, something about the way it drives just feels wrong and uncomfortable. performance and the way it drives is about the same as our tuned mk 7 golf R (ECU and DSG flash), the biggest improvement the golf had was from the DSG tune so the shift mapping is not always hunting for 1000-1500rpm. personally they are both about the same to me, i dont have a preference for one over the other.
I've lived in illinois and Ohio. There are teslas everywhere and there have been since the company launched the model s.
@kieran finney you're right! Maintenance is a huge problem with teslas for now. But in the future it won't be. You're also right that you shouldn't be hauling horses across country with a Tesla. You're also right that you'd have to stop to charge from illinois to Florida. In the last case I'd argue that if you're driving alone in that time, you should probably pull over and sleep. And even if you're not, maybe you should go to the bathroom or grab some food. Anyway everything you've said has nothing to do with my original comment. Thanks!
@kieran finney I stated that there have been lots of teslas in illinois and ohio since the model s was released. Nothing you said changes that...and I'm not sure why you think it does. To call it a city car must be a joke. Yes it is better for people who LIVE in cities (because theres better access to super chargers). But their use goes far beyond the city given 300 miles of range. Yes you would have to stop and charge, which may result in longer stops than you, in particular, are used to. But to say that prevents their use in road trips is a very narrow view. A person who owns a tesla can spend less money over the life of the vehicle than someone who buys something else. Here's a somewhat bad example one of my friends recently thought through: he makes payments in a Tacoma. If he bought a tesla at the same time, paying the same interest rate, he'd have paid for the difference in price through the money saved in gas by the time the 5 year loan was done. Now obviously this varies depending on what you drive, and how much you drive, but it is not always more expensive to own a tesla. I spend a lot of time driving through the countryside, past tens of thousands of acres of farms. Yes, most people in these areas own pickup trucks, but they also own sedans. Why not a Tesla instead?
I live in Western NY and there are a ton of Teslas all over the place.
@kieran finney you must be a troll. Goodbye
kieran finney very long road trips definitely take longer in an EV, but don’t generally require much extra driving distance, given the number of Superchargers along major highways.
You did hit a nail on head...giulia ti with an abarth sound. And miata like manual. I,ust bought anew ti with18000 discount for less then accord sport 2.0. Great CaR. Wish it had abarth sound and the manual.
Min 5:34: Jason, next time please in engineers german: "Wandlerüberbrückungskupplung"
Ironically, the best sports sedan I can think of that's not a Giulia, is the Honda Civic Si in my driveway. When I bought it at the end of '18 I was shopping for 3 months for a sporty car that had at optimally at least 4 doors. I was immediately disappointed by the BRZ/86. Ford's hatchbacks were quick but didn't feel good to drive (and the RS costs waaayyyy too much for my budget), besides Alfo Romeo's Giulia QV (which I couldn't afford) the only other place I could think of was Honda which at the time I despised. I finally gave up and test drove the only Manual transmissioned car on their lot which was a 2018 Civic Si sedan in Black (I ordered Red). I was surprised at the roominess of it being a tall 6' 3" and the practicality of the car. Big trunk, space for 5 adults (as long as the back seaters are less than 6'), a highway rating of 38mpg (currently averaging 40-42mpg/per tank) and the shifter is so much fun to row, it's light, nimble, and handles just as well as the Type R. Yes I have driven a Type R, amazing to drive, but with $1700 of wheels and tires, I know have a lighter, wider set of traction than the Type R, which performs better. I'm only missing the extra 100 horsepower which is not worth an extra $10,000.
You guys should do a show talking while driving a car sometime.
Ive thought about this but i think it would just another 'terrible driver' episode if they did, and the guy who does the beep over expletives would earn overtime.
Such a shame that its uploaded right before im going to bed! Now i have to think the whole night about what youve talked! But now tomorrow is going to be a good day!
This is my favorite episode ever!
To answer Derek's question "Why would anyone buy anything but a Tesla?" Simple, loads of people live in situations where they cannot charge their car at home, and Tesla starts sending you nasty emails if you use the Superchargers too much. I live in apartments. I currently have a large garage next to my apartment, which is unusual. My garage actually has power outlets, but I have no control over the circuit breakers, and I have no doubt using those outlets to charge an electric car would get me in trouble. So no electric cars for me.
Don't spread the BS. You MIGHT get those emails, when charging your Model S with unlimited supercharging only from your closest supercharger. The Model 3 doesn't come with free supercharging, so you won't be getting those emails regardless on what Supercharger you charge. You would only get credit card charges with the Model 3.
Then again, charging with residential electricity rates is a big part of the cost savings in an EV, so it is understandable for people who cannot charge at home. Especially goes for countries with expensive electricity or cheap fossil fuels.
@@rkan2 Where did I complain about the cost? I said I have nowhere to reliably plug it in. And loads of people live in dwellings without any way to install charging equipment. You Tesla freaks always get bent out of shape about the most trivial shit. It is 100% true that they have sent emails to lots of owners about using the Supercharger too much. How is it BS if you admit that they do it? insideevs.com/news/328361/tesla-sends-out-supercharger-abuse-emails-many-model-s-owners-not-impressed/
Would the ats-v sedan 6mt not compare to the Giulia or is the way it drives too different.
Next episode: Personally, I don’t get the hype that super cars such as Lambos and Ferrari’s get. Without a single manual transmission in any super car manufacturers lineup, I feel like modern super car manufacturers don’t prioritize the fun of driving anymore. I’m 13, I’ve never driven any car before, so maybe I am wrong. I’m basing my information on reviewers thoughts with a heavy bias towards Cammisa’s reviews. Most reviewers say that their mouths hurt from smiling while driving a super car such as a Huracán, but I feel like they smile because they know they CAN go fast, but aren’t ACTUAL going fast. I think that you’d have more fun in a simple sports car such as a mx5 or a Toyota 86. Could you explain to me the hype behind modern super cars?
A Balakrishnan
I can definitely see what you mean. To say that those cars are not exciting to drive because they don’t have a manual is a little far fetched, but you have a point.
Also even though you’re not old enough to drive, I feel that your opinion is still valuable just because our generation(ish, I’m 18) is going to have a huge effect on car culture.
Washing machine and/or dryer that texts you with an alert that the cycle is nearing its end - just take my money already, I want this!
ive had a w202, w203, w204, X204 and a W211 and i gotta say the W211 E class had the slowest feeling steering from all of them.
it felt solid and isolating but it just wasnt great.
Also i think the w211's had a steering rack leak issue which was like $1,100+ to fix which is not worth it unless its an E55 amg
Interesting, i too had a W202, X204(still have) and W211 (i also had a W123 and still have another W212 but that one is an AMG so it's different) and i could not say that it was slower than any of the others. If felt really precise but heavy compared to the others. I had the W211 for around 200 000km and 8 years, and no leak at the steering (and from the forums i don't remember reading anything bothering). The W211's steering even felt more precise and faster than the variable assistance steering of a W212 i had later. (My comparisson is a part of a road where there is a speed limit of 130 km/h with curves)
Hey I like my M340i! The Model is so soulless in my opinion, but I get it's appeal. My G20 might be a fast luxo barge now, but I still enjoy my commute. FYI - you see quite a few M cars in the Phoenix metro. Almost the same amount as Teslas.
This is the best carmudgeon episode.
We need the GTA and/or GTAm here in the US.
They not selling any because of depreciation and poor interior compared to competitors. I'm going to wait another 3 years and then buy one for 20k. I'm not worried about reliability, that's a modern myth.
Hard not to agree with you guys on this one.