We’ll do a Q&A next week! Post all your questions here! [EDIT: We're full! We'll answer the first 150 or so! THANKS for the great questions! Stay tuned!]
Hi both, what do you think of diesel cars? Can you enjoy (in your opinions) the performance of a diesel? I'm thinking cars like an E60 530d, the new M550d, Golf GTD, etc etc.
The Pontiac Endurance Test segment LITERALLY had me crying of laughter, buckled over. I fell out of my seat. I woke up my family. Thank you for that Jason / DTS.
Please do a segment in the spirit of mean tweets! 56:11 Jason's ability to do accurate vocal car noises at will is impressive...should show us the noises he practices at home. People "multi-task" while driving highway speed because modern cars are "asleep" at that speed, so people aren't afraid. Maybe cars should be less luxurious for safety?
As a German only thing I can say is - best insights into why German cars are build and drive the way they are and what it is like to drive fast on the Autobahn Mr. Cammisa. What you (have to) do with the years is develop a kind of six sense regarding what the car in the right lane is going to do like 30 seconds before it happens ...
This was one of my favorite episodes. I had the opportunity to ride in an M3 CS last week, and I came away with the same feeling. We hit ungodly speeds on the highway, yet the car felt asleep. The car is so planted and stable at speed. Just ridiculous! Not fun!! I love the Chevy SS for that reason. As soon as you start driving that car, the engine sounds great and the steering comes alive (for an EPAS system). I'd take that car with a manual over an F80 M3 any day!!!
The concealment of speed and acceleration is one of the worst things about modern cars, being able to do triple digits speeds isn’t fun when it feels like your going 40
that why the 2cv was such a great car. did a rally with my boss. we where at 90 kph and it felt like we where gods of the tarmac! hilarious fun on skinny tyres with 2mm thick metal sheet pannels ratling like crazy. for a moment i was ari vatanen coasting a hill in a rally car!
That is why I ADORED my BMW 128i manual: it was "only" 230hp but with a lovely engine with so much more character than a turbo 4. You could revi it to 7000rpm in second and third gear without going straight to jail. Fast enough but not so fast that you could not enjoy the process. My issue is that most modern cars under 350 hp have forgetful engines... Case in point the Alfa Giulia: the base Ti has an engine that sounds like a diesel or the 2.9V6 that is way too fast for the real world, I would love a NA V6 in the 300 hp range (sounding like the venerable busso)...
Lack of a medium-power engine option is precisely why I don't own a Giulia. Don't care for the performance of the QF, don't like the character or abilities of the Ti.
Jason’s commitment to the sound effects this episode is amazing! He raised his own energy to meet hyphens and it made for a great moment during a great story
@@Dtamscott I legitimately laughed so hard that I fell out of my chair, crying, and woke my family. Thank you for bringing that amazing story up. I'm still smiling ear to ear.
This was by far the best episode so far. I've watched every one, and they are a highlight in my work week. The Pontiac Endurance Test had me crying and laughing so hard it hurt. Jason's delivery with Hyphen's uncontrollable giggling was just too much. How did you even end up at this from "0-60 is over too fast now"?? You have a totally valid point on that, but I'm so glad the conversation totally derailed into Jason's crazy rental car stories.
First of all, thanks for your great episodes. I've seen a lot of them and I'm impressed with your expertise and your own experience. It would be nice if you two would continue this sometime. I also live in the land of unlimited highways, in Cologne. But there is more and more traffic and there are many political discussions. It could be that we will get a speed limit in the near future. But ok, things change. The best thing about Cologne is that in 50 minutes I'll be in the Eifel at the Nürburgring. Acceleration is a paradoxical thing. Last year I had an AMG GTC for one weekend. My children gave it to me for my 60th birthday. That was a great gift and I appreciate and enjoyed it so much to make this experience. A very fast car with great acceleration. On the second day I was familiar enough to only drive manually in sport plus mode. But it takes feeling to shift as well as the automatic can to get the same acceleration times. Anyway the manual mode provides a closer feel to the driving experience. But...with such a perfect car you quickly get used to the performance. And then it gets kind of boring because the car is so "good". To be honest, my personal fun car is a small Morgan with 145 HP and 790 kg weight. I used to have other Morgans with more power but also heavier engines. This current small light car with a 1.6 litre engine offers much more driving pleasure. It does 100 km in 7 seconds. That sounds very average. But as I experience it I don't want it to accelerate faster. Because then the fun would unfortunately be over faster as well. And in reality it's all about the agility, the cornering feeling, the way I feel the road. Other cars are much more like insulation. That's why I agree with you. It doesn't always have to be faster. It has to be fun and sensational.
Pro tip. If you want to do the Pontiac challenge, do it in an 83-94 Sunbird. The major difference it had from the Cavalier was it had the same 2.0 OHC Family 2 Motor that Opels were using. It had similar power to the OHV Chevy motor, but it was smoother, and revved better. It could probably take those high rev hijinks much better.
While I agree that the ability of modern cars to mask speed definitely doesn’t help when it comes to pure driving pleasure, as someone who needs to go places quickly and safely (i.e. field workers) you would probably want your car/transportation device to be able to do exactly that. Personally, I hate the fact that Volvo is limiting their cars to 180 kph. A new Volvo definitely isn’t the kind of car I would choose to have a great time in on a drive I do just for the sake of spirited driving and pleasure. As Jason said, I also think that there’s a reason that most cars are limited to 250 kph, since that’s a speed you can do relatively easy and safely in a reasonably motorized modern car. IMO, 180 is just too slow, assuming the Autobahn is 3 lanes wide with little to no traffic. On a side note, I also agree with Uli Büsgen: As somebody who drives fast regularly on the Autobahn, over time a) you develop an understanding as to how others will react in certain situations and b) you learn to judge closing speeds and act accordingly.
I destroyed three Cavaliers in a week in california. Engine exploded. Front suspension kind of torn off.. and a rock slide in the mountains kind of removed the rear suspension ...
As a Quadrifoglio owner, I agree on the brakes, but not in the shifts. I think you hit the rev limiter because when the turbos are fully spooled, it revs up so damn quickly that you can't keep up with it. In normal driving, I have no problems using auditory cues to shift, it's only when I'm on it do I miss a shift and that's mostly because of the gearing/how quickly it revs up. Also- Jason's right about the MPG. It's impossible to drive efficiently in Dynamic or Race. Ps: The motor wobble is the best, lol.
I think the maximum speed to make kilometers quick and still feel ok is about 270-280 km/h. Everything above is really stressful even on an Autobahn with three lanes. Especially when you have some curves in it. I needed to brake once down from over 300 km/h and that was not a good feeling at all. - Great and entertaining Video again!
Bmw has been abducted and we need to rescue them. I’m afraid that Forced Induction has forced itself on us far too aggressively and now we have Stockholm Syndrome
The last M engines were the very best and proper kin to the M49 & M88 that the mark was built on (in modern times). Everything that was great about BMW for its old time admirers. Excitement level is at 100%. Neutered to sale, decat/sport cat and a tune and simba turns into mufasa.
I agree with this podcast. The fastest I have ever been was 130mph, but the fastest I ever felt was going 55mph in a 60 on a small slow bike at night at 9k rpm. Its more about the experience as a whole than the raw numbers
A friend and I did a nit of an endurance test on an old Fiesta XR2 1.6L (here in the UK). We hit the engine limit on that thing over and over again. Which was somewhere around 9000 rpm. The recline was somewhere around 6000 to 6500 and the rev indicator went all the way up to 7000. At an indicated 7000 rpm the speedo read 40mph in first. We took it to 50 in first and 90 in second. The maths worked it out to be hitting the limit at 9000. We were on private land on a very rutted 'road' in which we would drive down, screaming the nutts off 1st and second gear. Turn around and repeat the screaming routine on the way back. Things did get a little hot. What killed our fun in the end was part of the acceleration/throttle system got itself stuck open. Popping the bonnet and having a nose also showed oil having released itself from containment. Unsure where and how we decided to pack it in while we were ahead. That car sounded mean as hell reving through its normal standard redline of 6500 all the way upto 9000. If I could I would take a standard one and fix it up to be able to withstand hitting 8500 / 9000 rpm. It must be possible to make it reliable, given the abuse we did to what was at the time a pretty old car anyway.
I had a 1997 150 hp DOHC Neon Sport with the manual. That thing was quick and handled amazingly. The stereo was also surprisingly good. Got 43 mpg on a 53 hour roadtrip from San Francisco to Philadelphia. I loved that thing.
Jason is not wrong about the 5sec to 60mph thing. I had an FR-S with a few mods, a little faster than 5 seconds to 60, and had a blast with that vehicle on public roads... Now I have a 6th Gen Camaro SS that does 0-60 in about 3.2 seconds; it’s loads of fun, just not the same type of fun because I know there’s so much more I can’t use on the street.
The older Sciroccos before the 1986 16 valve would do also do 120. I had an '83, I put the pedal on the floor for a pretty long run on a stretch of highway between Destin and Fort Walton Beach, Florida, on spring break in 1988. I hit 120, I do not recall it being a pleasant experience though. 😃
The comment about the QF’s engine sounding like two 3cyls in parallel is also the way I felt about the S55 in the F80 M3. It doesn’t even sound like other BMW turbo 6s because the downpipes are unequal length.
10:52 that's the same problem we have with our 1.0L 3cyl Toyota hatchback. Not because it has a brake by wire system but it seems the brake pads we replaced to was counterfeit 😅
Holy shit Jason you had me laughing like a little girl, such great story. Also, I swear I feel like I'm the only other person in the world who feels that cars are too fast. I'm apparently the only owner of an Audi RS3 who feels that it's fast enough stock. IMO 300hp on the street is really the sweet spot for exciting performance without getting too deep into scary death speeds.
Another great episode! I really could relate to the portion of discussion about driving on the Autobahn . I have been fortunate enough to drive a few relatively fast cars on the Autobahn including my 900 hp GTR that I ship to Europe a couple of years ago. I can tell you, that’s the least favorite experience that I’ve had, was indeed driving a 2014 M6 there. Not only did it have a speed limit her right around 169MPH, but it also was way too big in my opinion, for the many portions off the Autobahn that are subject to roadworks in the summertime all over Germany. my GTR felt better probably because it’s got better steering then the similarly sized M6. Getting the GTR up to 196MPH also fun. But, the most fun I had in a car on the Autobahn was my M2 competition last year. even though the car was limited to 174 mph, it felt right at home and exciting enough going fast without going too fast. And the size was right for Europe. Just my $0.02.
Jason you keep forgetting there are other kinds of car enthusiasts :P The folks who go out every week to their local drag strip care 100% about acceleration and 0% about driving back roads (or 90/10, 80/20 etc.) I worked at a shop for awhile where everyone there were horsepower guys while I was the one guy who cared about handling. I hadn't spent much time around enthusiasts like that, but they exist, and we still got along fine!
That's some car world reality. There's much more joy in something that handles nice, but many don't like turns- a matter of driving capabilities. A road with curves is like a woman with curves (to me), so I love every bent. And a straight road, well... needless to say. But many like the thrill that's short lived- 1/4 and 1/2 mile runs. Whatever, I'll seem them all at the first turn... in the rear-view mirror. I still like to play the drag-race game, sometimes, just not in something that belongs on a drag strip... just because we're all car people.
Now, Jason, I _know_ you are aware of the distinction between (and ramifications of) "fast" versus "quick," "power" versus "torque" -- _I watched your video!_ In addition, the considerations of final drive ratio, gearing, and traction, _etcetera,_ have even more relevance to practical driving than the above. Or, as Jeremy Clarkson said of the 731 hp Ferrari F12, "You don't have to use _all_ of the power, _all_ the time." So, a Master's degree in law, is it? You've heard of a _language lawyer,_ perhaps? Precision in speech!
Trucks in Europe do something between 80 to 95 kmh - depends on a model or spec, so the difference between the fastest car on the highway is even bigger
37:52 agreed, and some leaders do. However for the most part leaders are a subset of human intelligence, and the distribution of power is rarely based on intelligence and ethics. way more often that it should be the distribution is based on luck. which means engineers, to some degree, if the know something is possible and it can hurt people, they are morally obligated not to bring it into existence. Admittedly that puts all the burden of moral responsibility on one person (not a great or fair thing), and there's always the fear of parallel advancement (where societies facing the same problem come up with similar solutions) could make that engineers efforts pointless. but still, it's the best answer I got right now.
I would add: not just luck, but also greed for power, lack of choice, ruthlesness, or simply promotion by the Dilbert principle, or the Peter principle.
Derek, it's simple - (@ 9:35) Rich Dickhe@ds buy "aspirational" cars, because of the way they think the car makes them appear. They are told by the world that these are the cars to which they should aspire, so these are the cars that they buy, regardless of their driving experience. (btw) Your subsequent comments about the relative excitement and dangers of driving at 110, 120, 130 and 140 mph were exactly spot-on! As a long-time fan, I think that section of the conversation was the most perceptive, 'grown-up' thing I've ever heard you say. Bravo!
many good points...i have a 69 911 and a 2011 911...the older car is very different to drive fast within its capabilities...speeds which would be ho hum in the newer car are much more exciting in the older one
Fun fact: the AAA used to sanction auto races in the US in the middle of the last century, until the 1955 LeMans disaster. As a child of the 80s, I remember my parents getting the TripTik maps for vacations in those dark days pre-GPS.
The ADAC Derek is speaking about at 42:30 is actually now in favor speed limits. But it still extremely big with about 22 million members and speak for many people
I view how quick a car is and how fast a car is as different metrics that can be somewhat unrelated depending on the vehicle; I've driven quick cars with short gearing that run out of steam not much over 140mph and high top end speed cars that aren't super quick to 60. 0-60 - I need to happen in under 6 seconds, but anything quicker than 4 seconds is unnecessary. Top speed - I don't need more than a capability to hit 150mph. Cruising speed - I want comfortable cruising in the 70-80mph range. I've pinned a 140mph speedo in a 66 mustang with a modified drivetrain and brake system; that car was not designed for speed, to say the front end is floating at those speeds is an understatement.
I've done 150MPH in a 1979 Trans am and it's terrifying the ducktail and front splitter starts to actually do some work and it squats I've got a TH350 and a 455 Olds motor and gas saver rear gears so it's only turning 1750rpm at 60mph It's an 85mph speedo too and it was wrapped all the way around
No joke I clicked on the thumbnail so fast that I thought it was about a mustang. Then when you brought up the M8 I had to go back and there enough... not a mustang. Just goes to show the originality in design there.
In a Mustang you get to enjoy more the speed than in a new 8-series/M8... even though it's slower. Germans tend to overengineer their cars... and that makes them a bit unexciting in feel when travelling at high speeds.
33:30 .....and I thought I was just too fearful when concerning higher speeds on the Autobahn. I once went over 280 km/h and had 2 thoughts: "I wonder if I reach 300", but the dominant thought was "what is if something goes wrong now?" (thought about if I bolted the wheels on correctly and if the tire is allright)
Where else can you meet online such thinking, such knowledge, and such entertainment, about the world of cars - and yet all they are doing is talking about them!
There is a bit of irony in the heavy M8 having a "Competition" label, as it is the car they actually do use in GT competition! 🤷♂️ I guess "wings and slicks on an M8" is the car equivalent of "lipstick on a pig". In regards to "slow car on the autobahn", I drove a 1.5L MX-5 in Germany for a weekend, and to drive it on the unrestricted sections of autobahn required constantly planning head for momentum management 😅.
9:34. I can't afford any of these rockets but I would say an additional appeal would be that the same power that gets you to 60 in 2.5 seconds will also take you from 30 to 70 in a very very quick manner. Nothing illegal about that but also fun. Whether it is overtaking, merging or just the luxurious feeling of having a seemingly endless amount of power under your right foot, it all feels fun/good. That effortless power FEELS luxurious to me and adds an additional dimension to a sports car. You can contrast that to a Miata..sporty, hell yes, zero luxury from its powertrain.
Love it back in 1979 my all crap Renault 5 / le car would drive hours with the throttle full on 95 mph/ 155 kilometres Following my rich friend in a Porsche, I was 17
Sounds like you are talking about a Q50S hybrid... lol. Has the same brake system. I agree with Hyphen, the overall experience is more important than a 0-60 run.
I know exactly where that is in San Francisco!!! I bottomed our my 01 Audi A6 when I was 19. I blamed the cracked oil pan on a small boulder on the freeway.......
I think the main problem you two mentioned at 43mins isn't that oh Germany has no speed limit awesomeness why can't we as well? Well, Germany has much more strict Driver's License requirements, tests, driving tests, schools, etc. Here in the USA you could get your DL from a cereal box, at 15 years old. I think it'd be awesome to have no speed limit highways here in the US that also push our technology I dread at the thought of a 18 year old with no experience that paid $100 and drove around a parking lot for his DL suddenly getting into daddy's Porsche and pushing 140mph on a legal highway, with NO IDEA of how to control a car like that, at those speeds. Lets fix the latter so we can have the former lol
Couldn't agree more. I had this thought while Jason was talking during the episode and meant to mention it but then we got sidetracked or something. De-restriction in the US would be an absolute disaster without also changing licensing requirements which the US automotive/oil lobby would never allow, I am sure.
Would you guys consider doing a 'Thelma and Louise' style film together including elements of your crazy driving history?? Episode 1 would be the American road trip. Episode 2 would be a European road trip............. Would LOVE to see those.
I've had sports cars all my life, presently M3 ZCP, and in my mind my 1987 Mustang GT was the quickest. All were stock and the numbers ( horsepower, 0-60) aren't even close. Not sure what that phenomenon is? Maybe the exhaust note, or that I could routinely max out the power of the Mustang or even my perception of what was considered quick back then. 🤔
I think the perfect amount of power/speed is an engine in the mid 300 hp range with a 0-60 time in the mid 4's. All the power you need when you want it but not terribly boring when you are just driving around, like a normal human being, not like Jason
do you guys remember the 2 seater from ligier? comcept car which basically had F1 style accelerations and decelerations but was limited to 60 mph. super fun to drive.
correction, I tried to find it, got it wrong. it was a Matra M25, a prototype, here's the link : rarefrenchsportscars.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/matra-m25-final-8.pdf Saw it on a french tv show with a guy called jérome Bonaldi, who at the time always was showing people new stuff, new ideas. The idea was to create excitement from 0 to 60 mph. when asked why, the designer said : why not? why not have the acceleration of an F1 car but not the top speed which is the problem, what happens from 0 to 60 and back is exciting if done really "vigorously" . add to that lightweight, thin wheels, low center of gravity, small nervous engin, open views to all those objects which are not moving (lol) and you have a really "fun" car.
You talked about collectability last time. Would you consider a 981 GT4 being the first GT4 an important factor in collectability even if the 718 GT4 has many of the same traits and is arguably a better car?
So on the pitch of engine to shift topic., I know this is weird ., my M6 is my least favorite sound of my collection (of the actual engine exhaust note )yet the fake sounds coming thru the speakers make it Gt3ish and I do shift early enough and have never hit red limiter although it’s still pulling very hard
You guys are a motoring penn and teller. Or US Clarkson and May. luv it. Question for next week - bmw f85 or f95? Is the f95 worth it compared to a 2yr old f85 at half the price.
As a long time guitarist let me say... today's country music is the new R&B,and there is a new genre of country music called CLASSIC COUNTRY which is also "white" country music.
We’ll do a Q&A next week! Post all your questions here! [EDIT: We're full! We'll answer the first 150 or so! THANKS for the great questions! Stay tuned!]
Favourite car of all time?
when will Mr volkwagen drive the ultimate rally homologation golf, the G60, the original golf R ?
If you had to buy one car on sale today, no budget limit, what would it be? *Given that you prefer pure analogue experiences*
Even with the crazy aircooled prices, purchase & rebuild repair, are they still worth considering to own?
Hi both, what do you think of diesel cars? Can you enjoy (in your opinions) the performance of a diesel? I'm thinking cars like an E60 530d, the new M550d, Golf GTD, etc etc.
48:31 Prelude to the Pontiac Endurance Test
53:53 Pontiac Endurance Test
Goated comment 😍
@SenecaFTW
Thank you so much.
Saw a Murano CrossCabrio yesterday, it was amazing to be in the presence of a future 7 figure classic
😂, so did I oddly enough
You sir or madam, win one Carmudgeonly Internets.
Ahahahaha snort
😂
They made so little of the CrossCabrio, rarer than a Mclaren F1…
The Pontiac Endurance Test segment LITERALLY had me crying of laughter, buckled over. I fell out of my seat. I woke up my family. Thank you for that Jason / DTS.
No s 899 91x101 6 et t y8tt7t7 yy7 67 et 7 y8tt7t7 y998 tohutust sss 6t
No y8tt7t7 yy7 yy u9 8 y998 tee 899 utoopia y toyotat uut
Feel like maybe Jason's rental car stories should be put in to some cartoons for sharing purposes?
That's a great idea!
“It was on older tires so I didn’t wanna do anything too crazy, so I maxed it out” this had me dead🤣🤣🤣
Nice bimmer dude. Whatcha think of the new BMW M3 M4
55:25 Watching D T-S cry on camera has been the highlight of this series
made my day
Please do a segment in the spirit of mean tweets!
56:11 Jason's ability to do accurate vocal car noises at will is impressive...should show us the noises he practices at home.
People "multi-task" while driving highway speed because modern cars are "asleep" at that speed, so people aren't afraid. Maybe cars should be less luxurious for safety?
great timestamp. now if only I can find the video of his cat hairball impression...
@@wesleyrice2138 ep 38
As a German only thing I can say is - best insights into why German cars are build and drive the way they are and what it is like to drive fast on the Autobahn Mr. Cammisa. What you (have to) do with the years is develop a kind of six sense regarding what the car in the right lane is going to do like 30 seconds before it happens ...
This is the only channel I allow to send me push notifications when episodes drop. Must watch immediately!
,
On a backroad I still shift at redline. I always shift at redline.
I get mad at exhaust videos that don't take it to redline. What's the point?
Whew, your wallet wouldn't last as an rx7 owner
TheImperfectGuy
RX-7s like being redlined....
@@M67v always implies no proper warm up in my brain.
Which is a dumb perspective, yes but also its what I was trying to communicate
TheImperfectGuy
I didn’t say always
This was one of my favorite episodes. I had the opportunity to ride in an M3 CS last week, and I came away with the same feeling. We hit ungodly speeds on the highway, yet the car felt asleep. The car is so planted and stable at speed. Just ridiculous! Not fun!! I love the Chevy SS for that reason. As soon as you start driving that car, the engine sounds great and the steering comes alive (for an EPAS system). I'd take that car with a manual over an F80 M3 any day!!!
That seems to be the reason for the Mustang sales worldwide, especially Germany. You get to feel more in a car that is not overly engineered.
The concealment of speed and acceleration is one of the worst things about modern cars, being able to do triple digits speeds isn’t fun when it feels like your going 40
ervin In an internal combustion engine car, yes. In an electric car, insane acceleration in silence is uncanny and very exhilarating.
that why the 2cv was such a great car. did a rally with my boss. we where at 90 kph and it felt like we where gods of the tarmac! hilarious fun on skinny tyres with 2mm thick metal sheet pannels ratling like crazy. for a moment i was ari vatanen coasting a hill in a rally car!
@AM G which universe?
That is why I ADORED my BMW 128i manual: it was "only" 230hp but with a lovely engine with so much more character than a turbo 4. You could revi it to 7000rpm in second and third gear without going straight to jail. Fast enough but not so fast that you could not enjoy the process. My issue is that most modern cars under 350 hp have forgetful engines... Case in point the Alfa Giulia: the base Ti has an engine that sounds like a diesel or the 2.9V6 that is way too fast for the real world, I would love a NA V6 in the 300 hp range (sounding like the venerable busso)...
Lack of a medium-power engine option is precisely why I don't own a Giulia. Don't care for the performance of the QF, don't like the character or abilities of the Ti.
Jason’s commitment to the sound effects this episode is amazing! He raised his own energy to meet hyphens and it made for a great moment during a great story
Best episode yet. I laughed so hard my ribs hurt. ✌🤣
My god me too.
@@Dtamscott I legitimately laughed so hard that I fell out of my chair, crying, and woke my family. Thank you for bringing that amazing story up. I'm still smiling ear to ear.
This was by far the best episode so far. I've watched every one, and they are a highlight in my work week. The Pontiac Endurance Test had me crying and laughing so hard it hurt. Jason's delivery with Hyphen's uncontrollable giggling was just too much. How did you even end up at this from "0-60 is over too fast now"?? You have a totally valid point on that, but I'm so glad the conversation totally derailed into Jason's crazy rental car stories.
"11 5ths". quote of the week.
Best long format car show out there. Keep it up, thank you.
First of all, thanks for your great episodes. I've seen a lot of them and I'm impressed with your expertise and your own experience. It would be nice if you two would continue this sometime.
I also live in the land of unlimited highways, in Cologne. But there is more and more traffic and there are many political discussions. It could be that we will get a speed limit in the near future. But ok, things change. The best thing about Cologne is that in 50 minutes I'll be in the Eifel at the Nürburgring.
Acceleration is a paradoxical thing. Last year I had an AMG GTC for one weekend. My children gave it to me for my 60th birthday. That was a great gift and I appreciate and enjoyed it so much to make this experience. A very fast car with great acceleration. On the second day I was familiar enough to only drive manually in sport plus mode. But it takes feeling to shift as well as the automatic can to get the same acceleration times. Anyway the manual mode provides a closer feel to the driving experience. But...with such a perfect car you quickly get used to the performance. And then it gets kind of boring because the car is so "good".
To be honest, my personal fun car is a small Morgan with 145 HP and 790 kg weight. I used to have other Morgans with more power but also heavier engines. This current small light car with a 1.6 litre engine offers much more driving pleasure. It does 100 km in 7 seconds. That sounds very average. But as I experience it I don't want it to accelerate faster. Because then the fun would unfortunately be over faster as well. And in reality it's all about the agility, the cornering feeling, the way I feel the road. Other cars are much more like insulation. That's why I agree with you. It doesn't always have to be faster. It has to be fun and sensational.
Next T-Shirt, simply:
11/5
or
"Eleven Fifths"
How about "Pontiac Endurance Test" underneath a picture of an auto trans shifter being flung from drive to reverse?
The rental car story is probably the funniest story I’ve heard in a long time. I’m holding back tears in the office 48:59
This. This was one of the funniest episodes ever. I can't remember the last time I have laughed that hard. I love all of your stories Jason!
Do love this show a lot and always look forward to seeing each week! Keep up the great content guys?
My first car was a 2004 Neon. It loved to do neutral drops! I’m glad I never slipped it into Reverse while driving.
Pro tip. If you want to do the Pontiac challenge, do it in an 83-94 Sunbird. The major difference it had from the Cavalier was it had the same 2.0 OHC Family 2 Motor that Opels were using. It had similar power to the OHV Chevy motor, but it was smoother, and revved better. It could probably take those high rev hijinks much better.
While I agree that the ability of modern cars to mask speed definitely doesn’t help when it comes to pure driving pleasure, as someone who needs to go places quickly and safely (i.e. field workers) you would probably want your car/transportation device to be able to do exactly that. Personally, I hate the fact that Volvo is limiting their cars to 180 kph. A new Volvo definitely isn’t the kind of car I would choose to have a great time in on a drive I do just for the sake of spirited driving and pleasure. As Jason said, I also think that there’s a reason that most cars are limited to 250 kph, since that’s a speed you can do relatively easy and safely in a reasonably motorized modern car. IMO, 180 is just too slow, assuming the Autobahn is 3 lanes wide with little to no traffic. On a side note, I also agree with Uli Büsgen: As somebody who drives fast regularly on the Autobahn, over time a) you develop an understanding as to how others will react in certain situations and b) you learn to judge closing speeds and act accordingly.
I like how throughout every episode of this wonderful show, Derek seems as if he’s in a perpetual state of just barely tolerating Jason.
I destroyed three Cavaliers in a week in california. Engine exploded. Front suspension kind of torn off.. and a rock slide in the mountains kind of removed the rear suspension ...
Carmudgeon HYPE!! DTS and Jason should go on the Smoking Tire podcast. That would be so dope. Love the work! Jason you're the man.
I f**kin love this stuff! Great format!
Tesla Plaid laughs in 2.0seconds
As a Quadrifoglio owner, I agree on the brakes, but not in the shifts. I think you hit the rev limiter because when the turbos are fully spooled, it revs up so damn quickly that you can't keep up with it.
In normal driving, I have no problems using auditory cues to shift, it's only when I'm on it do I miss a shift and that's mostly because of the gearing/how quickly it revs up. Also- Jason's right about the MPG. It's impossible to drive efficiently in Dynamic or Race.
Ps: The motor wobble is the best, lol.
I looove how hyphen laughs
I think the maximum speed to make kilometers quick and still feel ok is about 270-280 km/h. Everything above is really stressful even on an Autobahn with three lanes. Especially when you have some curves in it. I needed to brake once down from over 300 km/h and that was not a good feeling at all. - Great and entertaining Video again!
Bmw has been abducted and we need to rescue them. I’m afraid that Forced Induction has forced itself on us far too aggressively and now we have Stockholm Syndrome
The last M engines were the very best and proper kin to the M49 & M88 that the mark was built on (in modern times). Everything that was great about BMW for its old time admirers. Excitement level is at 100%. Neutered to sale, decat/sport cat and a tune and simba turns into mufasa.
I agree with this podcast. The fastest I have ever been was 130mph, but the fastest I ever felt was going 55mph in a 60 on a small slow bike at night at 9k rpm. Its more about the experience as a whole than the raw numbers
A friend and I did a nit of an endurance test on an old Fiesta XR2 1.6L (here in the UK).
We hit the engine limit on that thing over and over again. Which was somewhere around 9000 rpm. The recline was somewhere around 6000 to 6500 and the rev indicator went all the way up to 7000.
At an indicated 7000 rpm the speedo read 40mph in first. We took it to 50 in first and 90 in second. The maths worked it out to be hitting the limit at 9000.
We were on private land on a very rutted 'road' in which we would drive down, screaming the nutts off 1st and second gear. Turn around and repeat the screaming routine on the way back.
Things did get a little hot. What killed our fun in the end was part of the acceleration/throttle system got itself stuck open. Popping the bonnet and having a nose also showed oil having released itself from containment. Unsure where and how we decided to pack it in while we were ahead.
That car sounded mean as hell reving through its normal standard redline of 6500 all the way upto 9000. If I could I would take a standard one and fix it up to be able to withstand hitting 8500 / 9000 rpm. It must be possible to make it reliable, given the abuse we did to what was at the time a pretty old car anyway.
I had a 1997 150 hp DOHC Neon Sport with the manual. That thing was quick and handled amazingly. The stereo was also surprisingly good. Got 43 mpg on a 53 hour roadtrip from San Francisco to Philadelphia. I loved that thing.
Here's my current two car solution: a 1998 Volvo V70 Cross Country (218k miles) and a 2009 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.
Jason is not wrong about the 5sec to 60mph thing. I had an FR-S with a few mods, a little faster than 5 seconds to 60, and had a blast with that vehicle on public roads... Now I have a 6th Gen Camaro SS that does 0-60 in about 3.2 seconds; it’s loads of fun, just not the same type of fun because I know there’s so much more I can’t use on the street.
This one of my favorite episodes. Disliking raw acceleration and top speed without an organic sensation, true carmudgeon.
The older Sciroccos before the 1986 16 valve would do also do 120. I had an '83, I put the pedal on the floor for a pretty long run on a stretch of highway between Destin and Fort Walton Beach, Florida, on spring break in 1988. I hit 120, I do not recall it being a pleasant experience though. 😃
PET 🤣🤣🤣 55:00 min. I was laughing hysterically right along with the both of you. Haven't laughed that hard in forever. You guys are awesome!!!
The pair of you giggling like little children over the PET story is absolutely gold!! 😂
Thanks Jason for making me feel old born in 1978...
The comment about the QF’s engine sounding like two 3cyls in parallel is also the way I felt about the S55 in the F80 M3. It doesn’t even sound like other BMW turbo 6s because the downpipes are unequal length.
10:52 that's the same problem we have with our 1.0L 3cyl Toyota hatchback. Not because it has a brake by wire system but it seems the brake pads we replaced to was counterfeit 😅
Jason: "What are we chasing?"
Me: Bragging rights.
Holy shit Jason you had me laughing like a little girl, such great story.
Also, I swear I feel like I'm the only other person in the world who feels that cars are too fast. I'm apparently the only owner of an Audi RS3 who feels that it's fast enough stock. IMO 300hp on the street is really the sweet spot for exciting performance without getting too deep into scary death speeds.
12:47 Hey Hyphen, it's pronounced 'tamber'. TAMM-ber - like your name. Finally all those years in marching band are paying off!
Another great episode! I really could relate to the portion of discussion about driving on the Autobahn . I have been fortunate enough to drive a few relatively fast cars on the Autobahn including my 900 hp GTR that I ship to Europe a couple of years ago. I can tell you, that’s the least favorite experience that I’ve had, was indeed driving a 2014 M6 there. Not only did it have a speed limit her right around 169MPH, but it also was way too big in my opinion, for the many portions off the Autobahn that are subject to roadworks in the summertime all over Germany. my GTR felt better probably because it’s got better steering then the similarly sized M6. Getting the GTR up to 196MPH also fun. But, the most fun I had in a car on the Autobahn was my M2 competition last year. even though the car was limited to 174 mph, it felt right at home and exciting enough going fast without going too fast. And the size was right for Europe. Just my $0.02.
Jason you keep forgetting there are other kinds of car enthusiasts :P The folks who go out every week to their local drag strip care 100% about acceleration and 0% about driving back roads (or 90/10, 80/20 etc.)
I worked at a shop for awhile where everyone there were horsepower guys while I was the one guy who cared about handling. I hadn't spent much time around enthusiasts like that, but they exist, and we still got along fine!
That's some car world reality. There's much more joy in something that handles nice, but many don't like turns- a matter of driving capabilities. A road with curves is like a woman with curves (to me), so I love every bent. And a straight road, well... needless to say. But many like the thrill that's short lived- 1/4 and 1/2 mile runs. Whatever, I'll seem them all at the first turn... in the rear-view mirror.
I still like to play the drag-race game, sometimes, just not in something that belongs on a drag strip... just because we're all car people.
Now, Jason, I _know_ you are aware of the distinction between (and ramifications of) "fast" versus "quick," "power" versus "torque" -- _I watched your video!_
In addition, the considerations of final drive ratio, gearing, and traction, _etcetera,_ have even more relevance to practical driving than the above. Or, as Jeremy Clarkson said of the 731 hp Ferrari F12, "You don't have to use _all_ of the power, _all_ the time."
So, a Master's degree in law, is it? You've heard of a _language lawyer,_ perhaps? Precision in speech!
Trucks in Europe do something between 80 to 95 kmh - depends on a model or spec, so the difference between the fastest car on the highway is even bigger
First time i went significantly quickly was in a turbo 240 sx I had years ago. It was all good until 120. 120-166 was COMPLETELY different. So loud.
37:52 agreed, and some leaders do. However for the most part leaders are a subset of human intelligence, and the distribution of power is rarely based on intelligence and ethics. way more often that it should be the distribution is based on luck. which means engineers, to some degree, if the know something is possible and it can hurt people, they are morally obligated not to bring it into existence. Admittedly that puts all the burden of moral responsibility on one person (not a great or fair thing), and there's always the fear of parallel advancement (where societies facing the same problem come up with similar solutions) could make that engineers efforts pointless. but still, it's the best answer I got right now.
I would add: not just luck, but also greed for power, lack of choice, ruthlesness, or simply promotion by the Dilbert principle, or the Peter principle.
Derek, it's simple - (@ 9:35) Rich Dickhe@ds buy "aspirational" cars, because of the way they think the car makes them appear. They are told by the world that these are the cars to which they should aspire, so these are the cars that they buy, regardless of their driving experience. (btw) Your subsequent comments about the relative excitement and dangers of driving at 110, 120, 130 and 140 mph were exactly spot-on! As a long-time fan, I think that section of the conversation was the most perceptive, 'grown-up' thing I've ever heard you say. Bravo!
Every young guy should have a friend like Mike.
I love the musical references. I'm an Aussie and I remember that song by the Pointer Sisters. But I'm also a bit older than Cammisa.
If it lasted 2.5 seconds.... it REALLY GOOD.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
many good points...i have a 69 911 and a 2011 911...the older car is very different to drive fast within its capabilities...speeds which would be ho hum in the newer car are much more exciting in the older one
I love the musical part at the beginning. I could listen and watch for longer. Almost like watching James May make a sandwich.
Fun fact: the AAA used to sanction auto races in the US in the middle of the last century, until the 1955 LeMans disaster. As a child of the 80s, I remember my parents getting the TripTik maps for vacations in those dark days pre-GPS.
The ADAC Derek is speaking about at 42:30 is actually now in favor speed limits. But it still extremely big with about 22 million members and speak for many people
Pour one out for the person who ended up with that pontiac 😂
I view how quick a car is and how fast a car is as different metrics that can be somewhat unrelated depending on the vehicle; I've driven quick cars with short gearing that run out of steam not much over 140mph and high top end speed cars that aren't super quick to 60.
0-60 - I need to happen in under 6 seconds, but anything quicker than 4 seconds is unnecessary.
Top speed - I don't need more than a capability to hit 150mph.
Cruising speed - I want comfortable cruising in the 70-80mph range.
I've pinned a 140mph speedo in a 66 mustang with a modified drivetrain and brake system; that car was not designed for speed, to say the front end is floating at those speeds is an understatement.
Yup
Can you do one on modern muscle?
I love these talks, especially the stories 🤗
You get use to the brake by wire brakes. I’ve had mine for three years and I got used to it haha.
I really hope ISSIMI channel to grow big
That was a really fun one, thanks !
love the pontiac story.... too good.. :)
I've done 150MPH in a 1979 Trans am and it's terrifying the ducktail and front splitter starts to actually do some work and it squats I've got a TH350 and a 455 Olds motor and gas saver rear gears so it's only turning 1750rpm at 60mph It's an 85mph speedo too and it was wrapped all the way around
No joke I clicked on the thumbnail so fast that I thought it was about a mustang. Then when you brought up the M8 I had to go back and there enough... not a mustang. Just goes to show the originality in design there.
In a Mustang you get to enjoy more the speed than in a new 8-series/M8... even though it's slower. Germans tend to overengineer their cars... and that makes them a bit unexciting in feel when travelling at high speeds.
33:30 .....and I thought I was just too fearful when concerning higher speeds on the Autobahn. I once went over 280 km/h and had 2 thoughts: "I wonder if I reach 300", but the dominant thought was "what is if something goes wrong now?" (thought about if I bolted the wheels on correctly and if the tire is allright)
can't belive i paused joe rogan for this, you guys are that good, keep it up
WOO!
Yeah, I remember when six seconds was fast too... my two car garage solution is your Dino GT4 and a Urraco.
Where else can you meet online such thinking, such knowledge, and such entertainment, about the world of cars - and yet all they are doing is talking about them!
There is a bit of irony in the heavy M8 having a "Competition" label, as it is the car they actually do use in GT competition! 🤷♂️ I guess "wings and slicks on an M8" is the car equivalent of "lipstick on a pig".
In regards to "slow car on the autobahn", I drove a 1.5L MX-5 in Germany for a weekend, and to drive it on the unrestricted sections of autobahn required constantly planning head for momentum management 😅.
9:34. I can't afford any of these rockets but I would say an additional appeal would be that the same power that gets you to 60 in 2.5 seconds will also take you from 30 to 70 in a very very quick manner. Nothing illegal about that but also fun. Whether it is overtaking, merging or just the luxurious feeling of having a seemingly endless amount of power under your right foot, it all feels fun/good. That effortless power FEELS luxurious to me and adds an additional dimension to a sports car. You can contrast that to a Miata..sporty, hell yes, zero luxury from its powertrain.
Love it back in 1979 my all crap Renault 5 / le car would drive hours with the throttle full on 95 mph/ 155 kilometres Following my rich friend in a Porsche, I was 17
Sounds like you are talking about a Q50S hybrid... lol. Has the same brake system.
I agree with Hyphen, the overall experience is more important than a 0-60 run.
The 4th gen GTI, the one everybody loves to hate: Rock steady at the 130something. For 8+ hours straight. Quiet too. Yes, it was new when I did that.
I know exactly where that is in San Francisco!!! I bottomed our my 01 Audi A6 when I was 19. I blamed the cracked oil pan on a small boulder on the freeway.......
I think the main problem you two mentioned at 43mins isn't that oh Germany has no speed limit awesomeness why can't we as well?
Well, Germany has much more strict Driver's License requirements, tests, driving tests, schools, etc.
Here in the USA you could get your DL from a cereal box, at 15 years old.
I think it'd be awesome to have no speed limit highways here in the US that also push our technology
I dread at the thought of a 18 year old with no experience that paid $100 and drove around a parking lot for his DL suddenly getting into daddy's Porsche and pushing 140mph on a legal highway, with NO IDEA of how to control a car like that, at those speeds.
Lets fix the latter so we can have the former lol
Couldn't agree more. I had this thought while Jason was talking during the episode and meant to mention it but then we got sidetracked or something. De-restriction in the US would be an absolute disaster without also changing licensing requirements which the US automotive/oil lobby would never allow, I am sure.
Great show guys.
Best. Episode. Ever.
Would you guys consider doing a 'Thelma and Louise' style film together including elements of your crazy driving history?? Episode 1 would be the American road trip. Episode 2 would be a European road trip............. Would LOVE to see those.
Can you give your thoughts on the new AMG GT Black Series?
I've had sports cars all my life, presently M3 ZCP, and in my mind my 1987 Mustang GT was the quickest. All were stock and the numbers ( horsepower, 0-60) aren't even close. Not sure what that phenomenon is? Maybe the exhaust note, or that I could routinely max out the power of the Mustang or even my perception of what was considered quick back then. 🤔
I know you guys have driven a lot of classic cars, but have you guys driven classic race cars? Like a 935k3, DTM e30 m3,etc?
I think the perfect amount of power/speed is an engine in the mid 300 hp range with a 0-60 time in the mid 4's. All the power you need when you want it but not terribly boring when you are just driving around, like a normal human being, not like Jason
do you guys remember the 2 seater from ligier? comcept car which basically had F1 style accelerations and decelerations but was limited to 60 mph. super fun to drive.
correction, I tried to find it, got it wrong. it was a Matra M25, a prototype, here's the link : rarefrenchsportscars.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/matra-m25-final-8.pdf
Saw it on a french tv show with a guy called jérome Bonaldi, who at the time always was showing people new stuff, new ideas. The idea was to create excitement from 0 to 60 mph. when asked why, the designer said : why not? why not have the acceleration of an F1 car but not the top speed which is the problem, what happens from 0 to 60 and back is exciting if done really "vigorously" . add to that lightweight, thin wheels, low center of gravity, small nervous engin, open views to all those objects which are not moving (lol) and you have a really "fun" car.
Derek laughs like Tim the gate guard from the movie Robots
bronco discussion? 👀👀
I think this is the first time I've ever seen Hyphen truly go on a rant!
Something wrong Hypen?
You talked about collectability last time. Would you consider a 981 GT4 being the first GT4 an important factor in collectability even if the 718 GT4 has many of the same traits and is arguably a better car?
So on the pitch of engine to shift topic., I know this is weird ., my M6 is my least favorite sound of my collection (of the actual engine exhaust note )yet the fake sounds coming thru the speakers make it Gt3ish and I do shift early enough and have never hit red limiter although it’s still pulling very hard
You guys are a motoring penn and teller. Or US Clarkson and May. luv it. Question for next week - bmw f85 or f95? Is the f95 worth it compared to a 2yr old f85 at half the price.
As a long time guitarist let me say... today's country music is the new R&B,and there is a new genre of country music called CLASSIC COUNTRY which is also "white" country music.
Well, that's the hardest I've laughed this year.