Viking Overview Update (April Patch)
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- This is a followup to the recent Viking Overview, diving into the four major changes Vikings received in the April 2023 patch.
0:35 Vikings pre-patch
0:50 Swordsmen-line buffs
2:20 Berserk overhaul
4:55 Arbalesters +1 attack
8:02 Longboats +1 attack
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
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Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition
The true nerf is removing berserkergang for 256x tech games
Omg 11
instead killing a single trade cart now gives you 5k gold :D
Although i think it didn't stacked in x256
@@pabloduarte1722yes it did.
@@pabloduarte1722 it worked even better than expected. It multiplied healing by two each time so after 3 researching it was 160 HP/minute
Definitely loving these infantry buffs. Too many knight strats are making the game stale.
Hera just made a video explaining that Knight civs are struggling.. Maybe super good low level, but high ladder Camel is king and Monk is super bsuted.
@@akunight1019 Idk maybe just give Vikings more infantry spaces!
BBBUT MY META
@@akunight1019 top 0.1% of players are literally irrelevant to the overall health of a game. they will solve a meta regardless of what changes are made to it. cavalry is insanely strong at basically every level below 1500
@@hahaureadmyname agreed, devs should focus on 90% of the player base.
I'm surprised the raiding mechanic wasn't also given to the longboat because it would let them raid trading convoys, or even against fishing ships.
I though the same thing.
That's a really good idea
Like you pointed out, their ship are not great to face actually armed ships, viking used ships more for transport than for actually combat.
Maybe they felt it would be too strong on hybrid maps? It would be very fitting tho
Probably because Vikings are already a good water civ.
It's time for a Viking campaign, i may suggest the "Viking crussade" (or Norse crussade), one of the most cool events of the middle ages
Ooh, that is a good one! A lot of diversity in missions and enemies. My immediate idea was "the Great Heathen Army" of the 9th century, but the Norse Crusade sounds even better.
I just read about the Norse Crusade because of your comment. Interesting stuff! It would make a cool campaign. Maybe they could really roll with the new raiding mechanic. Also, this comment thread gave me flashbacks to Spanish class and learning the difference between "por" y "para" lol.
@@marcushertz4434 the great heathen army already has a scenario. york.
Man they do need to add more full fledged campaign for civilization that still doesn't have one, (Turks, Chinese, Japanese, Persian, Koreans, Vikings, etc) so many historical stories to be told
@@marcushertz4434 why not both
I agree wholeheartedly that unique techs targeting both land and water simultaneously is a great idea. I feel like so much of AoE2 has left water behind
It'll be better when they eventually add the Rome at war water system.
Every time i see a sotl vikings video i simply forgot all my worries and get happy. Thank you man
the combination of good archer civs that get gambesons seems to be hard to stop from what I see on the ladder. Not only Vikings with higher Hp Champs and +1dmg Arbs, but also Japanese are extremely tough to stop with their faster attacking Champions and fully upgrades Arbs. Other Civs that can unleash this combo reasonably well are Malay (no gold 2h swordsmen), Portuguese (20% less gold on Arbs and Champs + all upgrades), Dravidians (ignore armor + all upgrades), Saracens ( All upgrades), Byzantines (All upgrades), and to an extend Koreans (no blast furnace)
Great comment, I want to try those out
Byzantines don’t have Blast Furnace either. Their strength is in their defense.
Byzantines don’t have blast furnace
I mean, if you're gonna fight the same combo then maybe, but if it's any civ, i don't think it's that hard to stop, since champions are not really very good units
Thanks for the correction on byzantines! I'm only 1200 elo, but it is quite difficult to stop (for me) especially in castle age where the best counter to champions is xbows and they do 25% less dmg with gambesons. I played a bit today and I would add teutons(+2 melee armor) , Burmese (free infantry armor upgrades) and malians(+1 armor per age) to the list with a very strong timing with this combo in early castle age. What worked well for me against it was eagles + slingers, scorpions, shakram throwers + cav, orjan guns + skirms, ghbeto + skirms, steppe lancers (not the best but kind of OK). Defensive castle or rush a siege workshop and hope for the best was the way to go for me. Things I didn't try that I think could maybe work are seargants, obuch, axe throwers, bohemian hand canoneers. I think a player better than me can abuse the low mobility of the champ + xbow comp.
So the spear line can now at least in theory generate gold without costing gold?
True, it would be interesting to see how much it affects longer games.
i think the new tech bonus is mostly a "win more" thing. because when you get to kill enough eco units for that gold to actually be a decent number, you are probably winning.
but it's awesome flavour wise
@@jurgnobs1308
It would have to effect killing military units as well. But that would make it more like the bounties in AoE3 where resources specifically aren't limited in the first place.
@@Alias_Anybody no, i think it's fine being a relatively small bonus. it comes with the old bonus of chieftains still. it's just a bit extra on top. and i think now that vikings got berserker gang for free and a new UT on top, i think they are in a good spot, they don't need to get a ton of gold from fighting enemy armies. that would very quickly render them OP.
they now have one of the brst ecos, plus decent (not the best) arbalests plus buffed infantry. they have a lot going for them.
If the vills don't react, of course
Hmm. Considering how the devs rush in to change a civ after a civ overview, could you consider making a civ overview for the Byzantines? 😁
The one major nerf is that Berserks in 10x shared civ bonus games will no longer have insane healing and only get the standard amount
Love these overviews. It's helpful to see your testing to get an idea about how impactful the change are.
words that instantly improve my day, "Hey guys, Spirit of the law here .."
Their archers seem pretty strong now in the late game, but I am more excited about trying out those berserks!
is +1 damage really good enough to outdo the missing thumb rings?
@@jurgnobs1308 No, unless you put them in towers.
@@jurgnobs1308 Vikings were good archers; but with thumb ring made them too good, and this is from someone who loves the viking Civ, them now having an actual raiding option makes them even more interesting that i'd love to see a campaign related to the Nords in someway eventually.
@@CallofDutyBlackOps28 yea but i dom't think that will happen. they largely use campaigns to sell DLC (single player players are a huge chunk of the player base) and as a showcase for new civs
@@jurgnobs1308 either way; there's still money to be made from campaigns that never did; but i guess if AoE4 exists, maybe we see some campaigns we didn't in 2 in 4.
Getting gold back from raiding is one of the coolest mechanics I have ever seen. I remember back when AoC was announced I thought Hun Tarkans would have a feature like this when they'd burn houses.
Personally, I like to think that the new unique tech is the Vikings’ Arbalesters just picking all the javelins off their champions and firing them back at the enemy.
Hello Spirit of the law, I have been following your Channel for a while and I want to congratulate you for your excellent content.
Thinking about the unique tecnologies, they might have removed +1 attack from the elite longboat, but they got berserker healing for free!
Thank you and congratulations.
love the viking longswords. 72 hp 3/4 armor is great in castle age
I always loved the viking. Maybe because I'm a Dane... but also because I love not having to think about whether to develop a wheelbarrow. It's like... wheelbarrows are just in my DNA or something. I'm down with that.
I read this comment a few months ago and haven’t been able to stop thinking about it since. May I ask where you live?
@@Stewart1499 Copenhagen, good sir :)
@@MadsBoldingMusic okay nice, I wrote down a list of guesses and that was my 30th guess
@@Stewart1499 Haha! That makes me curious as to the upper 29 ^^
@@MadsBoldingMusic thank you for responding. It’s been driving me crazy for months thinking about it. Got fired from my job because I was too distracted
Can't wait for the Incas overview. Since I don't think you'll do a 'Through the Ages' overview with them, as they're not really one of the 'OGs', they at least got enough changes to warrant a new look at them. After all, they've received quite a few changes since Forgotten (and so did Indians 11). Could be interesting to see how much they've changed since the launch, especially when we can cover the amount of changes OG civs have received from a much larger timeframe.
Still find it funny how they keep "buffing" the Sword Line by adding more techs to research, consuming more time and resources to make them good enough to consider using, as opposed to just buffing the Sword line stats directly where it might make them worth the effort.
I always, for example, questioned the point of Militia when they have stats barely better than villagers with Loom, but cost 60 food and 20 gold.
Always felt that Militia should be its own special unit that is trained at the Town Center and costs something like 75 Food only, to better reflect their status as little more than armed commoners.
Meanwhile, Barracks should create Men-at-Arms in Dark Ages, Longswords in Feudal, and Two-Handed in Castle. That alone would make them very competitive because imagine Men-at-Arms an age earlier without an upgrade cost. They'd still struggle to chop down a TC on their own, but the defenders would have to still work to defend themselves.
Issue with directly buffing thr sword-line is that there are quite a few inf civs that would have to have their bonus changed in order to acomodate it. Take for example supplies, if instead of it being a tech it was a flat reduction, Goths would suddenly get a big buff to their swordsman. How do you vounter balance it? Decrease the inf discount and adjust the Huskarl price? But what about the spear-line then? Have different discount for each unit? Thats just one civ.
They don't needs to buff infantry to the point of being as strong as cav. They need to make infantry more unique. Such as what you suggested about moving the upgrades down one age. Add a sprint mechanic to infantry (something like double their movement speed for 3 seconds every 8 seconds, or for 5 second every 10, and maybe do 20 or 25% less damage for the first 2 seconds of the cooldown) Or being able to make them 2 at a time but maybe slightly increase the cost. Make cav take up 2 (or 1.5) pop instead of 1. Make archers and crossbows separate/different. Archers fire faster (or the same as now) with less damage, crossbows fire slower with the same damage as now (or more depending on how much you slow them down). But I don't think buffing infantry directly needs to happen anymore.
Until this update, I would have suggested to either buff infantry with 1 pierce armor or to nerf knights/archers by lowering their attack by 1😅
Here's a fun trivia about Berserkergang:
It does not mean "a gang of berserkers". Gang here comes from the Germanic word for "going", so the word means "going berserk".
Bonus trivia: The word berserk, or bärsärk, means "bear pelt" - "bär" being bear, and "särk" being a type of garment. Because that's what they wore in combat.
I don't like it. It may be true, but I don't like it. Why? In the phrase "going berserk", "going" is not the same word as moving somewhere (which is "gehen". Root word of gegangen which means "went" (though, that's a bit complicated). "Going", here, is the same word as "becoming" which is "werden". As in "Berserker werden" (going/becoming berserk). To clarify, I'm not arguing that it IS or SHOULD be a gang of berserks. But the translation doesn't sit well with me.
It's not directly related to the word "going". The -gang comes from from Old Norse gangr, meaning "a walk/act of walking", see gang in Danish or gång in Swedish. While the word does refer to the rage/fury experienced by berserks (though not to the process of becoming enraged), rather than to a group of berserks (though the English word "gang" is a cognate), a closer translation of berserkergang would be something like "berserk movement". Both "go" and "gang" ultimately come from a Proto-Indo-European word for "step", though the verb and noun took different forms in Proto-Germanic and by Old Norse were already very different. Also, importantly as mentioned above, the word "going" as in "going berserk" means "to become", not "to walk", and the Norse verb for go wasn't used to mean become.
@@Xiphiidae "Berserker Movement" is exactly what came to mind if I wanted to translate it more closely/literally.
@@curlywhites That's because it's not German, but Old Norse. So the word has Germanic roots, but you can't expect it to be exactly the same as in modern German. :)
@@IAmBael sure, I don't expect it to be exactly the same. But I do expect there to be a difference between going (as in movement) and going (as in becoming). But after looking up some Old Norse dictionary they do seem to use that ganga word for just about every situation involving either definition.
Two comments here:
1) I think raiding should be changed to become a core feature of the militia/swordie line. That is, swordsmen generate gold when they damage non-defensive structures at a trickle rate. (that is, non-walls/castles/towers)
The Chieftains Raiding tech should remain unique to the Vikings, of course. But attacking buildings with swordsmen to generate gold is something that could help the grossly underused swordsman line.
The rate should be fairly low since infantry are meant to be massed. (1 gold per X amount of damage per unit, with a total per/second generation cap to keep it from getting out of hand)
Since the Swordsmen line is intended to be anti-building in part, this provides an incentive to supplement attacks with swordsmen raids instead of just doing the same-old Archers+Cav+Siege that dominates 90% of the metagame. This way, every civ gets SOME potential benefit out of their swordsman line if nothing else.
If we don't want to punish House Walling too much maybe make it a Castle Age tech. Just thinking here.
2) IMO, Bogsveigar was a mistake. The meta needs to move further away from Archer+Cavalry, not towards it (outside of bow and cav specialist civs, naturally). I get that they wanted to keep the Vikings from being Goths 2.0 by giving them a strong secondary unit, but people already play vikings as an archer-main civ rather than an infantry one, just because of how strong massed ranged units are.
Giving them late game arbs that hit harder might be a bit too much.
Probably hard to balance but imo the longboat should be able to transport units and the number of arrows fired should be based on the number of military units garrisoned. It'd be so cool raiding with that on an islands map and would fit well with the new gold generation for killing vils and trade as well as fitting the Vikings as a civilization.
Well deserved buffs for the vikings. Before the only major advantage they had that caused them to be chosen was their eco bonus, now there's other reasons too
My fav civ! I've been having a blast playing them and am interested to see what you have to say.
EDIT: afaik the healing of berserkers is still 20 hp/min in castle age, only with the elite upgrade does it get automatically upgraded to 40 hp/min as per the official update notes
You're wrong. As per official update notes, both non-elite and elite heals 40 HP/min. (Elite) means both non-elite and elite. And Elite means only elite.
@@mubashirulmoula1798 oh okay, if thats the case then thats great, in all the vids regarding the update I also heard people saying its only after the elite upgrade, didnt test it myself
@@ave3360 it was the case during Public test, but when it is live I think they just gave both version 40hp/min
Dude I replayed the part at 1:17 like 5 times and was still dumbfounded by the slingers ability to decimate the swordsman before the handcannoneer😂
What bothers me with the Viking ship is that it has statistics that are too similar to the standard galleon. Why not make a more unique boat? With relatively different stats, pv, cost? Not that it is stronger or weaker than a galleon, but less comparable
Make it faster, but dealing less damage (or costing more), so in equal resources they would lose if not well microed.
Kind of a "water cav. archer".
And maybe they should also generate gold from raiding fishing ships and other unit.
@@thomasfplm It's a possibility ! The goal would be to have a unique boat and not similar to the standard ones
The stats look the same, but they behave completely differently.
Longboats stack very closely, so you can concentrate their fire very well if you got a lot of them. You can easily focus fire with them, on the flipside, they are more vulnerable to AOE, which usually doesn't matter.
Longboats shoot one arrow with the advertised damage and multiple additional arrows with 1 dmg, which makes them quite good against buildings. On the flipside, they shoot a bit less frequent if I recall correctly, which makes them a bit less good against other ships.
I'm not 100 % sure on the details anymore, but the similiar stats are very misleading to how both ships actually behave.
@@thomasfplm Would be sick if longboats were indeed a tad faster and acted as like Mangudai on water 11
5:55 Love me some high accuracy armour! :D
I agree with the sentiment about liking UTs affecting both land and water.
I see the main advantage for the addition of gambesons and beserks getting healing by default as being reducing the relative value of cavalry for the Vikings, especially in mid - late Castle age.
They'll probably still be played primarily as a crossbow -> arbalest civ for their most 'on-meta' strategy, but rather than teching into knights as a support unit through castle age, they can use infantry instead. An army of beserks/long swords/pikes (depending on what your opponent is fielding) with crossbows in the back provides coverage for everything except siege - though the beserk is certainly fast enough to do a decent job.
This is especially true given they can survive a direct mangonel shot (elites can survive a direct onager shot - but not siege onager) and their healing will do a lot to offset the smaller splash damage peripheral units receive - a knock-on effect of which is that defensive mangonels will do less to discourage or turn away raids. Without the ability to heal, taking a significant enough mangonel shot can make an infantry army effectively useless at raiding as they're just too susceptible to arrow fire from defensive archers/buildings. They don't have the speed or range to avoid defensive shots or unfavourable fights.
The main disadvantage of infantry was always that knights were just better in castle age and the subsequent high tech cost in imperial. Especially if you're opening archers in feudal so you have to go all the way from militia to champ + blacksmith, barracks and castle upgrades. By making infantry more viable in castle (especially mid - late) it distributes that tech cost over a wider timeframe - giving each tech a greater chance to contribute and return on the investment.
Knights will still probably be the *fastest* power option in early castle - but no bloodlines or bonuses makes them drop off quickly, and their cavaliers are nothing special. This makes buying any cavalry upgrades that much less appealing, freeing up those resources for infantry upgrades instead. Similarly, rather than dropping a stable they can either double down on archer production (as they already have a barracks because it's required for the first archery range), step up infantry production, or simply redeploy the wood elsewhere (such as extra farms/TCs for a faster imperial time).
Berserkers always had healing by default. Now they simply heal faster.
Swedes/Kalmar Union
Christian , late game focus, expensive units , using Hand cannoneers, Arbs, Knights + warhammer plated infantry to crush their enemies.
Architecture: Current ‘’Viking set’’.
Kalmar castle
Visby/Gotland Castle
Monnestary - Lund Cathedral
Sigurd the Crusader
UU castle: Plated war hammer infantry (Heater shield + one handed war hammer)
Slightly stronger than a longsword (Regular) and Champion (Elite) but does bonus damage vs other Swedish units (To depict the numerous civil wars within the Kalmar union)
Weak vs Cav + gunpowder, average vs archers, strong vs siege + buildings + infantry , very strong vs other Swedish units except for cavalry.
UT Castel:Danish Reformation - Swordline + Knight line gain + 25HP
UT Imp: Vryborg bang - All guard towers become upgraded to BBT and when a BBT gets destroyed , it explodes and inflicts area damage around it. (To allied and enemy forces)
Sallet helmet - sword line + arbs gain +1 melee armour
Civ bonus1: Pete houses - Houses built on grass or snow terrain cost - 50% wood.
Civ bonus2:Torps - Houses built next to Berries and woodlines increases villager collection rates of these resources.
Civ bonus3:Burkals - Hunt generates the same amount of gold as they do food (Selling of furs)
Civ bonus 4:House of Vasa - if allied to Poland you gain access to Winged Hussaria
Team Bonus: Elk/Reindeer can be bred in the livestock penn wich provides more food (and more gold for the Swedes) in cold /winter maps
Barracks:
Kiteshield ,nasal helm swordsmen up to Long sword
Two handed swordmen - Plate armoured Heater shield swordmen + Salet Helm
No Gambesons
Spearmen - Kite Shield - Pikemen - Heater shield ,Halb - Plated halberdier no shield
Stable:
Cavalier wearing plate armour and Sallet helmet
Light cav
No husbandry
AR:
Arb
Handcannonner
Elite skirm
SW:
BBC
Onager
Ram
Dock:
Gallion
Fire ship
Demo ship
University:
No Keep
No siege engineers
No Treadmill crane
Wonder: Uppsala Cathedral
Historical battle: Battle of Brunkeberg 1471 AD.
Campaign in the Levant with the Norwegian Crusades under Sigurd the Crusader 1115 AD Siege of Sidon
I think the biggest change with this patch is that regroup and vill pathing seems extremely broken. Either that or I'm misclicking all the time suddenly.
Probably the latter
The pathing is shit
Happens every patch i think
@@kremepye3613 this time is the first it's been bad enough that I noticed the change tbh.
Hitboxes also seem pretty terrible when trying to click things. I'm not sure what's going on but it's the first time I've been like ... "Wtf is going on here."
I actually thought my mouse started having issues.
@@16vSciroccoboi maybe it's to do with the game being altered for xbox?
@@kremepye3613 I dunno. I doubt it, since this patch specifically is the first time I've had noticeable issues at my play level, and the Xbox has been in for a patch or two by now.
Pathing is sort of a meme complaint with every patch, cause vils especially have always done some stupid stuff, but this one seems pretty bad to me.
i just realized that Spirit gave yellow to the viking units, and that is the trademark colour of our favorite norwegian
Iron Dome strat on low ELO Team Islands and Nile Delta 2v2 just got harder. Might be worth swapping to Vikings instead of Koreans as the tower builder now.
Do tell, what is this strat?
Automatic Captions would have me believe that the Viking Art Blaster has been significantly improved.
I still wish theyd find a way to make supplies and gambeson effect unique units the way parthian tactics does. Something like supplies giving -10 food cost to unique infantry. Condo could benefit but not eagles. You can adjust karambit cost and maybe shotels too. For gambesons I'd love to see +2 attack vs archer armor for militia line and unique unit infantry
Berserks are gonna be disgustingly good.
Radi da!
I've been playing a ton of AI team games with HD AI as a challenge with Vikings and have some things to say:
The new tech for archers gives them as much damage as Heavy Cav Archers, Longbows and Rattan Archers, but they still get 100% hard countered by Huskarls but can do more damage to Ghulums (not sure if it actually helps though). And they deal 1 more damage to Paladins of course which is huge.
There's 2 key differences between Champions and Berserks: Champs have +1 pierce armour and Berserks have more movement speed. That's pretty much how I think when I'm playing. I usually always have castles and don't have the time and resources to get Two Handed Swordsmen, so I usually just get Berserks.
I only play AI :D
Hey Spirit of the Law, guys here!
I adore the Vikings Chieftains buff.
It slowly brings them closer to my Norse civ build and I love it!!
But I hate that they get an archer buff.
Norse/Vikings
Pagan, early aggression, raiding using Infantry, cheap trash,Strong Agnon Skirms, transported in longboats.
Architecture: Norse architecture that resemble their beautiful Norse church wonder.
Knut The Great
Sven Forkbeard
Ivar the Boneless
Erik the Red
Erik Blood Axe
Ragnar Lothbruk
Harald Hadrada
Olaf Siggurdson
Rollo
Harald Bluetooth
Olaf Tryggvason
UU castle: Berserk (infantry) - Unique infantry unit that slowly heals itself. (Dane axe + round shield on back) Can repair Longboats
UU Dock: Longboat (warship) - Unique ship that fires multiple arrows (from castle age) as well as transport foot units (Infantry/skirms/vils/monks/kings only)
In feudal age Longboats can’t fire arrows.
Longboats transporting skirmishers gain added pierce armour and attack.
Feudal age longboats transporting skirmishers gains an attack.
UT Imp: Chieftains Longforts - Beserkers can be trained in docks + Killing a villager loots food/gold.
UT Castle: Bogsfeigar : Longboats & Skirms get +1 attack.
Civ bonus1: Dane Geld:Skirmishers, Pikemen, Halberdiers cost -25%
Civ bonus2: Infantry and skirms +20% hit points starting in Feudal Age
Civ bonus3:Warships+fishing ships cost -15% Feudal Age, -15% Castle Age, -20% Imperial Age
Civ bonus4: When infantry destroys an eco building 100 of the connected resource gets looted and added to your stockpile.
Lumber camp = 100 Wood
Mill = 100 food
Dock = 100 Food
Mining Camp = 100 gold + 200 Stone
Market = 300 Gold
Monastery = 500 gold
TC = 500 gold
Shared unit Barracks:
SU2:Throwing Axe men - Shared with Goths + Franks
Franks only get regular, no elite.
If allied to Byzantines, both civs gain access to: the technology of Varangian Guard from the Feudal age.
In Feudal age , Byzantine army (As well as Norse allies) gain access to a special unit in the Barracks called the Varangian Guard. - Expensive , slow moving with a limited build amount.
Since the Byzantines are a Defensive civ, the Varangian Guards have a high attack boost when in the vicinity of a TC or Castle but outside a certain radius from these buildings the VG lose the strong attack bonus and are just as strong as a normal Man at Arms/Long Sword/Champion.
(guards of the Emperor) To defend against early rushes , but since they are expensive,slow and limited, you will have to think strategically as to when and where to deploy/station them.
(Automatically upgrades with each age)
drive.google.com/file/d/1KGqx1q7JKH8DmwxjTifLq0UD7chw358K/view?usp=share_link
Team Bonus: Arson becomes available in the feudal age. (Civs whom did not have access to arson now do gain access to arson)
Barracks:
Champion
Up to long sword - Round shield + small war axe
2handed sword to Champion - Round Shield + sword
Gambesons
Halb - Round shield spear line
Throwing axemen + Elite Throwing Axemen
Stable:
Light cav
AR:
Elite Skirm - Angon Skirms (does slightly more damage to villagers)
archer
SW:
Siege ram
Siege onager
scorpion
Dock:
Fire galley
Galley
Heavy Demo
Transport ship
UU - Longboat (warship) - Unique ship that fires multiple arrows (from castle age) as well as transport foot units (Infantry/vils/monks/kings only)
In feudal age Longboats can’t fire arrows.
Longboats transporting skirmishers gain added pierce armour and attack.
Feudal age longboats transporting skirmishers gains an attack.
No shipwrite
Pagan Temple:
No Redemption
No atonement
No Theocracy
No Illumination
No Herrecy
Blacksmith:
No plate boarding armour
University:
No keep
No BBT
No Siege engineers
No fortified wall
Don’t gain access to Livestock penn unless allied to the Swedes.
No crop Rotation
Wonder: Borgund/Hedel/Hopperstad Stave Church
Pls do Sicilian update overview thank u
Now my dumb question that came to mind when watching this video is if the 20 gold per trade unit kill works with trade cogs or if it's exclusively trade carts. Not that I think anyone is going to be raiding ships with infantry, but I wonder if on the 1/100 chance of that happening in a game if it actually works.
it's an option, and however low the gold is, it just means a bigger win, assentually stealing their money they put into that unit, and putting it into your own eccon. very situational, but i would say very worth it if it's a game where you see plenty of times to kill villagers, maybe even find a huge trade cog waterway.
It would be interesting if the tech also affected longboats and got money from fishing ships.
yes, it gives gold if infantry kill trade cog as well
They should split Vikings into Danes, Swedes & Norwegians, each with their own buff to the Longboat. My take would be: Norwegians: Longboats can carry 5 Infantry, Swedes: Longboats regenerate like Berserks, Danes: Longboats have 20% more HP - or something like that
spamming berserkers was already one of my fav strategies in comp stomps with my friends. these changes are insane lol.
So it has begun. Spirit of the Content has awakenend D:
The only things I like about the new Vikings is having berserkergang folded into the elite upgrade and having chieftains introduce a small raiding mechanic (finally, the Vikings are now actually 'viking'). Berserkergang has forever been a tech that's pretty cool and is an effective pick against archer civs, but never in a million years justified how much it cost. Other than that bogsveigar is a mostly nothing tech, against infantry it is functionally the same as having thumb ring, against archers it's worse, and against heavy cav it's functionally the same as having thumb ring. That sweet spot of 7/8/9 pierce armor is... skirmishers, eagle warriors, and paladins. The skirmisher interaction is very nice and a positive thing I can say about the tech, like there's actually a reason to get it, but arbalest still dies horribly to eagles and paladins and the tech really doesn't help that much because it requires focus fire.
I always wanted Vikings to be the ultimate late-game water civ, but these days it feels like the devs have settled on giving them early game power and punishing them if they fail to seize water control by the time imperial age rolls around (against civs with Shipwright anyway). A fair trade-off, I think. But also one that Viking players should have in mind when they choose their civ on water maps.
Failing to capitalize on the power and speed of Longboats in Castle Age makes their high gold cost extra painful, and rather than cementing Vikings as a late-game powerhouse, the Elite upgrade for the Longboat along with the new unique tech feels more like you're being given one last chance to make a heavy investment into your navy to wrest control of the water before it's too late. And again, failing that, the high cost will no doubt come back to bite you.
Does viking infrantry gain 20 gold for killing a trade cog?
I was thinking the same thing, but for 5 gold from fishing ships.
😂
No more invincible Berserks via the Berserkergang x256 times route, tho I wonder how chieftains will benefit from that mod in terms of obtaining gold
i'm 1300, vikings have always been my go too, i worry about the nerfs/buffs because i've been so used to playing them a certain way for like over a decade
yay viking love!
Frankly, I think this raiding mechanic should be given to ALL civs, but only melee units, with the vikings tech giving them a bonus on how much they gain and infantry gaining more gold than cavalry.
This way you nudge newer players to raid and finally balance ranged units VS melee units, because archers already have several advantages.
The way I'd implement it:
Whenever a villager is slain in melee, the slayer civ gains 5 food if cavalry or 10 food if infantry. Trade carts and monks give 5 gold instead. The vikings upgrade continues to work as it is but as a BONUS to the resources you'd usually get.
Heck, maybe even extend this to razed buildings with a more in depth chart. Defensive buildings = 0, houses = 20 food, storage buildings = 50 food/50 wood/ 25 gold and stone depending on type. Feudal and basic military buildings give 100 food. Castle age buildings give 100 gold. Castles give 100 gold and stone. Wonders give 200 of every resource.
Vikings i find to be the best "all rounder" except for Naval, being that they don't have fire ships; but instead have longboats which in some form, are a long range substitute.
How do vikings deal with feudal age without fire galleyes? Just demo spam?
Finally, a "raider" civ in development is truly a "raider" civ by actually getting gold from raiding
I'm really liking the new Viking tech. The gold generation from infantry, especially Spearman line, will pay back for their cost, and give you a net gain in gold, if played right.
Cavalry dominates too much, so Vikings seem to be a great anti cav civ with Arbs doing more damage and Infantry generating gold can counter cav heavy civs like Frank's, Mongols, and Tatars.
So I'm happy for this. But it would be better if it affected Longships too to give Naval Vikings that more authentic feel as Raiders instead of a generic naval civ.
I like Buffs to Unique units. Berseker looking good now
Castle age infantry buffs were a huge effect, totally worth it. Cheiftains buff, it was good before and I'm not complaining about Vikings finally get some semblance of plunder mechanics.
Imperial age, the loss of Thumb Ring adds accuracy dice rolls that didn't exist before, and basically Thumb Ring is nearly always better than the much more expensive Bogsveigr. Against Cavalier / Paladin, and pretty much anything else in the 7/8/9 pierce armor bracket, your Champs/Berserks are far superior options. Vikings had Thumb Ring for *decades* before some moron decided to remove it, then slide back with an overpriced band-aid. Thumb Ring was only a minor bonus to Skirmishers but considering how utterly horrible Viking Cavalry is, you kind of do need to lean really hard on Skirms against archer balls.
Seriously, keep Chieftains as-is, drop Bogsveigr entirely, restore thumb ring, and figure out basically anything for the replacement unique tech.
I mean we say Vikings have to pay for that last damage upgrade on longboats now but they did just get berserker gang for free so
Does the gold bonus from killing vils, monks and trade carts work even by an opponent that has surrended/was defeated?
I believe it does
Italians need gambesons now so that vikings aren’t the only ones to get good archer+gambeson combo
Japanese are another civ that also have that combo come to think of it.
I still reckon Italians could use the love, even though I suppose they may then want to tweak their unique tech, to give +2p for condotierro instead of 1, just so that isn't a factor when deciding whether or not to make those or champions. Or should Condotierro just get the +1p in all situations?
Maybe this is why Italians didn't get gambesons ;-;
Cool, now Vikings can roleplay the true raiding ability against vils and trade!
Really hope they go what they did to the Bezerks to the War elephants, making the UT incorperated in Elite and give them a UT for their CA
Berserkergang comes in castle age? I thought it was incorporated with the elite upgrade?
Edit: nevermind. I read the patch notes better now
I think you confused with shotel warriors.
I like all the changes to my favorite civ!
But Bogsveigar is quite expensive.
Now we just need to rename them to the "Norse" and they'll be perfect.
The real question is how will this affect fatslob gameplay?
He uses an older version of the game, so the effect is zero.
But I would love to see him playing with the new vikings.
I would probably suggest dev remove Arbalest from viking and instead buff that tech to compensate. That way viking would have glass cannon archers with +1 or +2 more attack but less health compared to the trash xbows from Persians. Also, the regular crossbow looks better for the nordic aesthetics they have.
I love the vikings. The only thing i hate is that it kind of feels stupid to use both champions and berzerkers. I did wish there was an incentive to use both. Sure champions are cheaper. But they are quite expensive to upgrade along with berzerkers. Anyway, with the archer changes. Can scorpions replace them? Thinking a simple pike, berz scorp and ram combo?
Why give berserkergang in castle but old Royal heirs in imperial?
Is 4 sec creation in castle age too op?
A single forward castle in early castle age would be... devastating with a 4 second creation time
Longboats should have the ability to garrison troops and go faster, as rams do. It would do more for them than that tech!
Ngl i did not even know what did the patch do. I just picked vikings one match and won in castle age with berserks "Literally only berserkers" and i was like" hmmm were they always that strong and whatsup with this healing they just won't die"
Now i understand why
Wondering what is going to be the distribution of civs with gambesons vs without gambesons on the tournaments drafts now :)
I love the nod to TheViper in this video. You always have the Vikings in Yellow, which Viper always plays as yellow. :)
Vikings ✊
If Bogsveigar effects towers would be nice
So far my experience with gambison even with Slavs (get supplies and gambison for free) is that I can’t just go infantry. In feudal I’m obviously still losing to archers and being out run by scouts. fast castle into long swords is so many upgrades I don’t have any numbers to actually fight and without upgrades it’s just like prepatch.
But what did anyone else find out?
if you want to play infantry try to FC into longswords with malians, it was already decent before the patch but now with the new gold passive its even better (they dont have gambesons tho)
Still the best!
You should consider making a video about winrates. Sometimes I think devs put an inmense amount of effort into balancing civs and, at least to me, a 46% winrate isn't that big of a deal. What's the impact of a 3% increase in winrate?
ODIN BLESS THIS PATCH
Im been getting RUN over my malian and viking mass rax longsword play…jesus its strong
Where were all of these buffs when I was a little kid? I pretty much refused to use the stable ever and only used swordsmen or archers.
When the market is bottomed out, you can normally spend 100 food for 14 gold, 17 with a tech.
A normal civ can generate 4 villagers for 200 food, while Imperial age Hindustani could generate 5
If the Viking infantry killed all 5 of those Hindustani villagers, they would make 25 gold, for 12.5 gold per 100 food.
So, in conclusion, it is not worth it to create a barbaric sacrifice pit where Vikings slaughter Hindustani vills for gold
And i was thinking of trying Vikings at 2 vs 2 lol... anyways i love em
I wish we could transport berserks(only berserks) with longboats
SOTL, very important question - in your intro are you still saying "Spirit of the La Hire"? I can't tell
The Viking that took down the night is a total chad. lol
Also important is that these buffs should help Vikings not plateau at high-ELO games.
How well do Viking Longswords men hold up against Knights?
I would love to see which longsword with gambeson is best vs crossbows with micro. Will it be the extra hp Vikings, the faster Celts, the higher attack Burmese, who wins?
Lol they gave you berserkergang for free, but replaced it with a something that USED to be free. Personally, I would much rather have free Berserkergang than free +1 longboat attack, and the archer bonus is a welcome addition, if a bit odd.
vikings are supposed to be played in black forest with wall rush/boom only! NO MATTER WHAT !
I'm a little bit worried about these changes. Before the loss of Thumb Ring, Vikings were one of the most prevalent civs in both 1v1 Arabia and on water maps and I think the older changes were justified and still left them reasonably strong (as shown by being 8th on the 1v1 stats), but a lot of people were crying out that they'd been ruined despite having one of the best eco bonuses in the game.
I'm glad to see that their infantry identity is being pushed more, but the things like the full effect of Berserkergang for free, cheaper Chieftains and +1 attack Arbalesters feels like they're just going to be pushed back up to the top of the ladder of being potentially too dominant again. While the improvements to the militia-line is good for the Vikings on paper, I don't see why people would make them over the now even stronger Berserk.
Because supplies and gambessons makes them cheaper and more resistent against arrows? And as always not needing a castle is a big plus. I think they made both options very much worth a consideration now wich is good.
The important differences between Thumb Ring and Bogsveigar are a) Archery Range vs Castle, b) Castle Age vs Imperial Age and c) the cost of the two technologies.
Thumb Ring being available an age earlier, from a much cheaper structure and for less than half the resources (and no gold) positions it to have a far bigger impact on every match. Bogsveigar is basically just an option to help out in the late game if the Viking player has spare resources and has gone for all the other Archery upgrades first.
I agree the changes are significant, but there also is quite heavy and deliberate powercreep happening to strengthen each civs identity. So I am somewhat worried about some civs being a tad bit strong rn as well, however I would prefer if that would mostly be balanced by improving the significantly lacking civs now rather then nerfing not fully OP civs. I really like having those more and more strongly defined civ identities the devs are pushing the last patches.
They’re perfect now. Why do you want them to be a one dimensional infantry civ that no one likes? Losing thumbring made the civ so boring. It’s a good change.
@@longbow857 With all the techs you need to actually get the Long Swordsman and Champion fully online you've already spent a large amount of resources to get there. Even with the upgrade costs now being cheaper Berserks are going to usually be much more cost effective. Supplies only reduces the food cost as well, which isn't as much of a factor later on. Also, Gambesons isn't going to change the fact that infantry can still get easily kited by archers so even with Gambesons the Berserk is still going to be the better unit as it's simply much faster. Because of their speed Berserks are also just going to be much better at taking advantage of the new "pillaging" mechanic from Chieftains, making them even more cost effective.
I think the only time you'd use the militia line over berserks later on would be if you're struggling to keep your castles up.
Bogsveigar seems a bit overcosted for what it does. For about the same gold cost you can make 11 more arbalests, is 11 more arbs better?
An extra point about Bogsveigar is that it negates Gambesons, so opposing Militia-line are not any better against their Archers than they used to be before the patch.
i thought the beserkergang healing buff only applied to the elite beserk and the castle age beserk still had the standard non-beserkergang healing rate?
can you do an updated review of burmese?
Give Beserkers comparable building damage to Tarkans and you've got a UNIT.
So how much do they heal before Castle Age (if added in scenario editor)?
I think it was just a roundabout way of saying "Berserkergang has been removed. Berserks now heal twice as fast by default".
Where did you get that data on civ performance in arabia?
Viking Should be named Norsemen
Viking is a profession, not a civ.