How good are Dromons? (New AoE2 unit)
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- Опубліковано 5 тра 2023
- How good are the new Dromons? Note, they're available for not just the Romans, but also the Byzantines, Goths, and Huns! Even if you don't buy the DLC you still may encounter this surprisingly good new unit.
0:40 Dromon vs Cannon Galleon
3:50 Dromon vs buildings
4:45 Dromon vs galleons
7:00 Dromon vs land units
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition - Ігри
Note: a popular question is whether Dromons require chemistry to create, like cannon galleons.
The answer is no, Dromons are ready to go straight out of the gate when you hit Imperial. That's another advantage they have, and I should have mentioned that. Chemistry just gives them +1 attack and lights up their projectiles.
does Chemistry give +1 attack to additional projectiles or just the main one?
Congratulations to Spirit! I was unaware he had become a father. I look forward to more of his dad jokes like the one he slipped in at the end of this video 😊
It's a bit late into the DLC now, but were you aware that the Byzantines have an increased fire rate for them (25%), essentially making them go toe to toe with some of the best naval units in a 1v1.
Especially if you then combine them with the Byzantines' up-ranged and faster-firing fire ships. Making Byzantines one of the dominant water civs now, I feel.
Was switching out dromons actually better or did Romans just win because they have better galleons?
Do they cut trees?
"I feel like i've been dromon on about this unit for quite long enough" Sotl never fails to deliver a killer pun somewhere on his vids
So I'll call it there
The Dromon Empire
3:39 it’s so strange (nicely) that its death animation is so smooth while other ships still die in 1 frame per second
The benefits of coming in a later DLC I guess ^^
The dravidian Thirisadai also have a relatively detailed death animation ;)
I wish they renew ship destroyed animation. I mean buildings now have beautiful colapse animation....
It looks like a collapsing building 😂
It would have been nice if they redid those animations for the expansion
There's a few ships with better death animations, but mostly unique ships. Regular ones are still AoE1 standard
Dromon not needing chemistry (I assume) is a pretty big deal too. Saving that time and the resources could give a pretty good edge.
There might be a play with the Byz quick imperial.
They seem very strong to me, much stronger than what an ~archaic precursor~ ship should be. From what he's demonstrated, as long as your economy permits, you can mix them into your fleet without weakening your firepower, and if/after you win the engagements you can immediately push for the enemy shoreline.
In my mind they should've probably kept the building bonus similar, however reduce the base damage to something like 35-40, maybe give them an elite version that goes to 40-45, as they are they seem too strong, especially if they don't require chemistry.
@@vartosu11 Don't forget: its mainly compared to the canon galeon, the elit is way better for their main job.
When canons arrived they weren't immediatly better than what existed before, it took a one or two centuries to make them objectively better than older weapons. (Don't forget, we talk about black powder weapons, basic way to forge the barrels and rock for projectiles. Everything would be improved significantly over time multiple times, it's not even close to modern weapons, or even a XVII century canon.)
So having the Dromon with stats almost similar to the galeon and a bit inferior to the elite version is a good move.
From a gameplay perspective I think the range difference could be more important than it seems, for example it put them in range of bombard cannons. But I agree we will certainly see them more than cannon galeons.
@@MrMorvana can't underestimate the range differential either. 12 v 15 is huge, as you generally want your canon galleons to take out castles/towers while keeping them save from other ships. Needing to be 3 tiles closer makes it way way way easier to snipe for enemies.
Surprised SOTL forgot to pick up on this. If it's the case then it's a really nice perk.
I like the historical accuracy of Teuton castles outranging dromonds. That’s how Varus was beaten, I think.
Probably also part of why the teutons have that extra range to begin with
Not sure wether that was a clever joke or not. But it wasn't the teuton castles ^^ The image of Varus biting his nails off bc. he's being outranged is hillarious.
@@merlin3361 Not sure if it’s clever but it is a joke )
Now I picture Dromonds in a Black Forest-like pond and Germanic villagers frantically building a castle just out of reach. Seems very plausible to me now that I put it like that!
The Battle of Varus vs Arminius in 9 BC happened in the Teutenburg Forest. Forested area. No castles or boats anywhere nearby. The Cheruscians under Arminius used ambush tactics and attacked Varus's Legion from the flanks while they were marching.
@@TheBeastCH No btarczy5067 is right, there have been recent archelogical findings in Teutenburg forest that show Arminius likely used a gutsy forward castle to halt the Romans advance and deny a vital gold vein. Varus built docks along a small river that ran past the castle and all the way up Arminius's woodline with the objective of taking out the castle and then disrupting Arminuses eco but in his rush forgot about the Teuton castles extra range. After Arminius cleaned up most of the Legionarys with his T. Knights it was gg.
Actually the Huns DID have the Cannon Galleon when they first deputed with the Conquerors in 2000 and only lost it with the Forgotten in 2013. So they've technically HAD a Siege ship (2000-2013) for longer than they haven't (2013-2023). Of course the time between the Conquerors and the Forgotten has been a lot less competitive than between the Forgotten and Return to Rome for AoE2, from what I can tell. So the Huns regaining a type of Siege ship now should have at least some form of impact.
When I first was reading your comment I thought you were talking about the Huns in real life and was very confused
There was definitely a large competetive scene, but with a lot of civ repeating and mirror matchups in tournaments. :)
@@MrAbgeBrandt Well, either way, I'd say the Huns definitely appreciates getting back a Siege ship of some kind for the first time in about 10 years.
Spirit, you know you're gonna have to revist your Rome scenario with the new civ!
That is nice that it was included even for those without the DLC. It's always nice to have a little treat if you aren't feeling like picking the latest DLC at that time.
It's interesting that the game brings the new regional units for civs
Not so much a regional unit as a... temporal unit?! Given that they are all late Roman period civs.
Kinda hoping we might get the Vandals in the future...
Honestly we need to give the Meso civs like the archer canoes in game: faster, cheaper but weaker water units that can be good at harrassing maybe? To give em a regional unique unit for water maps since most of them dont have any decent navy bonuses or incentives.
@@KhanWolf95 I agree even if they would be useless castle/imperial age
I think it was a marketing ploy to get people interested in the port of the original Age of Empires, rather than just ignore it.
And to make the Aoe 2 meta feel fresh with changes.
@@Imperiused
We need more regional units. This is a partly unique units (as its one for several civs instead of one for one) but still make battles looks much less homogenous
The Dromon is meant to be a replacement for the AOE2 timeline of the Catapult Trireme from AOE1, which threw rocks instead of cannonballs.
Yeah, such a shame the catapult part doesn't animate
i would have thought it was the "hidden secret" upgrade to the Juggernaut: it goes Catapult Trireme -> Juggernaut -> Dromon
Should have called it Liburna then. Dromons were greek fire ships used in the east.
My only thing is that the Persians should probably have gotten it as well since the Persia in game seems to be Sassanid Persia with the archers and war elephants and not the Safavids who would be more of a camel and guns civ
I agree, the Persians should have gotten it as well. Maybe we'll see new civs that'll get it, like the Vandals.
Persians seem like a mix of both Sassanid and Safavid (also why would Safavid be a camel civ? I understand they were a gunpowder empire but camels?)
@@johnxina5126 All about those gattling camels... (only AOE3 fans will know)
I always wanted a naval onager. The galleon is kinda a scorpion on water and the cannon galleon is kinda a bombard cannon on water.
I would describe galleons as war wagons and caravels as socrpions 😂
Now we just need a ram and we'll have a full set!
@@the_SolLoser essentially fire ships right?
@@LGreymark more of an elephant than anything
@@The-jy3yq if you've ever attacked a scorpion or magonel with a ram, you know fire ships are the rams of the sea.
"... for Romans and their friends..."
Ah yes, the Goths. Rome's best friend. Lol
and the Huns! Rome´s BFF xD
@@DarthSupervian yeah the romans loved the huns
Well the Goths did have that time where they where the Romans for about 50 years
@@DarthSupervian well Huns were mercs for Romans for a while
in-between raiding them, that is
Rome's best friends: Goths,Huns,Dacians,Celts,Persians and Carthage
dromon has significantly more death animation stats than the cannon galleon
Historically Dromon is a Byzantine ship and the word is Greek (Δρόμων or Δρόμωνας) and it's considered a newer type of triereme... The original Fire ships were Dromons in which on the front tip Dromons have a dragons head in which they had a sifon from where the greek fire was shot at the enemies..
It would be neat if the Greek Fire upgrade of the Byzantines also gave the Dromon the ability to switch to a fire ship mode similar to the Ratha.
Historically they WERE the Romans, as Greeks didn't exist yet. Their nationality, their culture, even their language was called Roman and some still call it that
@@mortache congrats, you won most idiotic comment of the day award.
I think the Dromon was a bit of a mistake. Romans don't siege castles from the ocean, at least I've never head of them doing that. What the Roman navy WAS famous for was creating land battles on water. Hence I think the Dromon should have been swapped for the Corvus, a transport ship that has a melee attack that goes up the more infantry units are garrisoned inside it (like archers in a tower). To be fair, the Devs already wanted to do something very similar to this with the Viking Longboat all the way back in the 90s so I don't see why they couldn't have done that here. Hell since the Devs are obsessed with giving Romans charged attacks all over the place, why not give the Corvus the "Bronze Ram" unique tech and give the Corvus a charge attack too?
@@shykorustotora "Romans don't siege castles from the ocean, at least I've never head of them doing that" You'll be surprised then: for example, the siege of New Carthage and the siege of Utica both by Scipio Africanus, and the famous siege of Syracuse (with Archimedes on the side of the defenders), were accomplished with the help of ships attacking the city walls.
The subtitles gave me "Candy Galleons", which sounds like something a mod crew is already working on.
"The Germans" 💀
Why didn't Celts also get the Dromon? They are also one of the earliest civilizations from the game, and don't have access to gunpowder.
Up
Yeah, it makes more sense than a steppe nomadic people like the Huns ^^'
I think it is less era appropriate and more of mediterannia region appropriate. Huns, Goths, and Byzantines were located around there and have interracted with the Romans in one way or another so they getting Dromon make sense. Celts however, didn't go anywhere near that place, it would've been like american civilizations getting Dromon.
@@CrnaStrela actually, Celts lived all over the Mediterranean region. Not only did Gaul have a Mediterranean coast (like France today), but most of what today is northern Italy and Spain was inhabited by Celtic peoples. Finally, the Galatians were a Celtic people that lived in Asia Minor, which is in what is today Turkey. They just weren't particularly known as great seafarers, but neither were the Huns.
@@CptRyaffio Too bad those particular celts were genocided and assimilated in AOE 1
yes the Byzantines got it
Isn't this a nerf for Byzantines?
@@SidheKnightthe Byzantine dromon is also buffed by the faster attack bonus for fire ships
@@SidheKnight Remember they already have higher damage output against ships than regular galleons plus they have the 25% byzantine firing rate bonus! And they don't require chemistry so I expect them to be a stong unit in the byzantine fleet!
They should get dromon and cannon galleon because Byzantines
@@NishizumiMaho-um9gy unnecessary sure, but unbalanced? They’re essentially the same ship or at the very least same ship role (main difference is the dromon is better at doing things besides blowing up buildings)
This is actually making me think of the Turtle Ship now, the Korean's are credited with having an early form of rocket artillery thanks to the Hwacha, which is where I've always seen as the inspiration for their Onager bonuses. They would have a strong argument to use Dromons as the Injim wars were one of the places they were noted to be used. It would be pretty interesting to see the Koreans with the Dromons along side Turtle Ships for that reason alone.
But Koreans were pretty avid early adopters of cannons in naval combat. It would be quite strange for them to have the dromon instead of the cannon galleon.
@@Kidneyjoe42 That's true, and it's reflected in the Turtle Ship as well (cannons were on turtle ships, the Hwacha would have been used on other ships)
In a not that long ago patch. Koreans got access to Elite Cannon Galleon, specifically so that they can outrange their own Towers in case of a ditto. Giving them the Dromon would not only be weird considering this is meant for late Antique civs rather than late Medieval civs, but also would bring back their potential stalemates.
Plus, they're currently the only civ to have all generic Gun Powder fully upgraded (ECG with Dry Dock + Ship Right, HC with full armor, BBC with Siege Engineers and BBT with Architecture, Bracer and Heated Shot).
Would the Byzantine unique upgrade give the dromon more blast damage? I feel like that would go perfectly along their bombard towers.
Greek fire? No. However, one of their civ bonus for fire ships fire 25% faster has been updated to included Dromons as well
Top op lol
@@KGS17 That’s really good. Unupgraded Byzantine Dromons will be better against buildings than regular Canon Galleons. Early Imp Byzantines in water maps will be a real threat.
Still want a just strait up Onager ship
I find it really weird how so many multi-projectile units deal 1 damage on the other projectiles. I'd think it makes more sense to split the damage across them, or at least give the others a little more weight (subtracting some from the main to keep it balanced) so the other ones aren't basically a visual effect
The main reason for it would be because if you split an attack into 5 you give armor 5 times the advantage, means that any unit that does this will be hard countered by any armor, or it will slaughter unarmored units to well, though some armor piercing effect could be added, but then the effect is basically the same
That's a good point especially considering they recently improved the Portuguese Organ Gun to have this issue fixed
@@calebbarnhouse496 But then, what's the point of the 1 damage projectile? Might as well just make it a regular splash damage projectile?
@@Appletank8 not really, that increases it's accuracy, it may not need that, it's just way to keep them viable vs armor without overdoing it, I would reccomend giving them a minor armor piercing effect, but I don't control balancing
@@calebbarnhouse496 What do you mean by increasing accuracy? If a unit gets hit by the side projectile, they take one damage, which almost barely matters. I was thinking they could just be like mangonels and do radial splash damage. So missing a bit will still do like 25% damage.
The fact that the extra projectiles are almost completely cosmetic makes me sad. Would have really liked to see a proper Mangonel Ship, but as is they seem to be little more than era-appropriate reskins. Which I'm all for, for the record! Just seemed more exciting than it's looking now.
But i saw videos that show the splash damage...
@@francopereyra6659 The splash is from the main projectile.
Yah…i really wish we had the dock overhaul mod SOTL showed us several months ago
What's the difference between non cosmetic secondary projectiles with lower aoe and a single projectile with larger aoe? This way works more consistent as in less randomly affected, which is good for me
@@achaean4780 Exactly I was about to say the way these commenters want it would make it way more random and chance based. This way its a lot more consistent.
The dromon death animation is hilarous, its like a lego vehicle death from the games
I feel like there could have been a little bit of room for a quick note about projectile speed, given that they are faster than normal cannon galleons but slower than spanish cannon galleons
nobody expects the spanish cannon galleons
I never understood why all the multi projectile units only deal damage with one of them instead of distributing the damage on all projectiles.
I'm a little surprised that the Dromons cost less given that they don't really seem to be weaker than the Cannon Galleon. I understand that they bombard buildings less effectively, but I feel like their other advantages make up for that
The quality of your videos is always top notch.
SOTL after dark is... about ships. Sounds about right.
Even though the extra projectiles are essentially cosmetic, couldn't you argue that their presence is the reason the blast radius is larger?
I think the blast radius is specifically referring to the projectile doing 50 damage. The extra ones add more of an area of effect and will help out against groups of land units, but I don’t think the devs technically consider that a blast radius.
I think the extra projectiles are only to give us a visual hint it has a blast damage. They don't contribute much to the damage itself
8:29 spotted the water-based pun. Thought we wouldnt notice, but we did
Dromons vs Spanish Elite cannon galleon 😊
Mixing in Dromans might be particularly effective against longboats as they stack in a tighter formation.
The projectiles really give me an Onager vibe here with the Droman. So it's sort of like comparing Onagers and Bombard Cannons. And it seems to me that the Droman is the anti unit bombardment ship vs the Cannon Galleon being better as an anti building ship.
And with this unit being a generic unit, what do we call Romans, Huns, Romans and Byzantines? We got Mesoamerican civs with the Eagle line, and Elephant civs with its namesake unit in it. Pre-Medieval? First era? That latter one being how these four are technically the first civs chronologically in AOE2.
Early civs? I'd say Dark Age civs but that would cause confusion
Early Medieval.
Late Classical Civs?
I like to use "late antiquity civs" for those 4, since that time period is the common element between them in this case
@Junkyard Emperor Honestly, I think this one you suggested, Late Classical or Early Medieval sound the best, and fitting too for the era.
Totally going to do some trolling hiding my ships behind my enemy's fishing ships
Spirit’s puns never disappoint
I still think that a mecanic that just makes ships but you need to man them for them to be able to lose arrows (with archers inside) and to capture other vessels (with infantry inside) would be much better that what we have today
I think they should add it to the mesoamericans civs or do something similar, for them to clear the shore of defences
For sure... The Chimu were a bit of a naval culture and the Andeans overall had ships that could carry 20-25 tons. They need a new siege ship, especially if more american civs are gonna be added down the line.
@@ahmicqui9396 Either a siege like ship or maybe a conoe unit that is fast but weak harrassing unit to give em some spice in options on water maps they lack any bonuses on.
At the very least they had slingers which would actually do "melee damage at a range" and could sling heated stones (which isn't in the game right now, I mean, slinger stones could be heated up just like onager stones in RL)
REALLY NICE VIDEO !!
I’d still like to see the scout boats from the Rome at war mod added to AOE. It’d also be nice since it’d give you a trashboat option. Still loving the dromon. Maybe a few more civs should get it.
Dromon not having an elite version is a huge difference for imperial age
I'm stoked for this! Cannot wait!
The only thing I truly dislike in design of Age of Empires is the "cosmetic projectiles" I just praised it for removing it from the organ guns, only for them to reintroduce a new flagship fake projectiles unit into the gane literally the next update
Dude, that pun at the end was like 23 knives to the back. Thanks!
Great analysis. And I'm slowing warming to this expansion.
The Dromon:
- a water Onager
- that is lower damage against building (which should no mater)
- surprisingly useful as backline on water
The wrong unit for the Romans. The Roman navy was famous for "Creating land battles on water". Unique ship should have been the Corvus
Why do they keep doing the 1 real projectile & a buch of 1 damage projectiles thing? Its silly
My guess is that it is to show the larger blast area
I'd love to see them implement more semi-unique units for civ clusters. Like a naginata wielding unit that replaces pikes/halbs for the asian civs and so on.
It seems the byzantines bonus, 25% faster attack will be very powerful with the dromons
At this point I really, really wonder - why no regional villager skins.
Looking forward to seeing Goths take over the water meta.
"Romans and their friends"
>Huns
>Goths
man, I feel bad for them
Huns have been in a love-hate relationship with Romans for as long as they could remember
Goths were _the_ Roman after they strolled in and took the reins (then, the Ostrogothic Empire collapsed and the Middle Ages began)
@@The-jy3yq Yeah imagine having friends like that lol "I took your house that means I'm you now"
I don’t know what I would do without your genius
I think that the Spanish rapid fire Cannon Galleon with april patch blast radius deserve a honorable mention though, Spanish Elite Galleons can easily take out the Dromons, but I can't wait to see this in practice
This German looks to be a very interesting unit. Great subtitles in this vid btw.
good job ^^
@spirit what are your thoughts on the Ram-ship from AoM bein added as another potential siege-ship? Anti fire and Docks maybe
onager on the sea
I love the AoE2 Rome content!
8:30 "I feel like I've been dromon on. . ." Hahah nice one
Fun stuff 😊
As a casual player the only "mode" I play is using the Spanish Cannon Galleons to control endless waves of extreme AI units. Which is fun, but I only got to play that with the Spanish for years now. I hope Dromons will allow me to do the same and give me other civs to play with.
Ive definitely found that if my dromons arent helped by fireships, i always get rekt by galleons
The real question is if other civs' dromons still have the roman eagle on their sails. That would be pretty funny. Especially for huns and goths.
This topic needs an update, as the devs made several changes to dromons yesterday! I seems like they have made them more mangonel-like than before.
thank you for that dromon on pun
can't wait to play a land map with a few small puddles on it and slap down a dock for the aquatic mangos
I wonder how much Byzantine Fire Ships extra range will affect their synergy with Dromons... will it result in less friendly fire? Or to put it differently, less cases of the dromon not firing so as to avoid friendly fire
It seems like it would be really good in Black forest if there are lakes.
I think the Dromon was intended mostly to be an anti-mass-ship unit (specifically because of the constant mass galleons or longboats on late game full water 🌊 maps 🗺).
It also serves the function of attacking buildings from range.
Kind of like a Bombard Cannon on the sea ⛵ with more of a focus on an anti-massed units role.
but can they cut trees down :P?
The dromon should be more weaker when compared to a gunpowder cannon galleon, catapult vs explosion is a huge technology gap. Maybe if a civilization built a trebuchet on a ship would even out the playing field.
it be interesting to see how they compare to some civs that do have canon gallon bonuses
" I think i have been dromoning on for quite a while...."
This made my day
Honestly I'd like to see something like this added to all civs in general, and not really as a bombard cannon replacement. It really does shake up the entire water meta the way onagers on land maps counter massed archers if used properly. It would also allow the Meso civs to have some option for fighting shore castles on water maps.
It is good to think of them as part Onager as ships that bunch up such as Fire Ships and Longboats may need micro to avoid the splash and extra shots.
Neat unit, but does seem a little bit overtuned. Time will tell, I'm sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some of those numbers drop a bit.
As a 15 year+ byzantine main i am concerned yet excited.
Concered as i tend to play rivers, using cannon galleons to smash trebs without opening my gates and smash enemy castles within range of the coast. The 1-3 reduction in range hurts both goals by reducing where i can shell, not to mention castles or towers with increased range that can fire back.
However the increased rpm, Aoe hit and bonus seige damage means it will break any trebs that get too close aswell as rams and army massing like the ai does
Hey Spirit, I've been practicing my walling on arabia by playing skirmish as single player. I've noticed that I often see the same maps. Playing skirmish feels like there are only 40 map seeds and I remember how to wall the map (which is bad for training.) What is going on here? Does arabia in general have that few generation (from a woodline perspective) or is that just skirmish mode?
Do Byzantines Dromons benefit from the fire ship bonus? Cause I think I saw that in another video mentioning them. Though I may be mistaken
They get the increased fire rate, but not the blast radius.
They get the increased fire rate, but not the blast radius.
Sotl: Byzantines get Dromones
me: Does that mean they lose cannon galleons?
Yes.
@@jeffmorris5802 Oh no
Slam dunk pun at the end
Interesting. I dont know how much I care for the Dromon being cheaper and not requiring chemistry despite being an arguably better ship.
Gunpowder was used often during the last period of the byzantin empire.
Im really sad to miss them.
I like the historical aspect of the successor civ to the Roman Empire (Byzantines) and civs known for waging successful campaigns against the late Roman Empire (Goths & Huns) get access to this ship, but I am concerned about the water balance of the Meso civs and the Cumans still not having a siege ship. The fact that even fewer civs are missing a siege ship than before really makes the ones that are missing it stand out more.
Based on the time period, Navies involved, and first hand sources, these would have been the majority of the ships at Lepanto right?
Are these tests done with the new cannon galleon's blast radius?
Hmm, wonder if Triremes are also a thing in the DLC, even if only in the AoE 1 part of it?
Considering the aoe1 part of the dlc is basically just aoe1 in the aoe2 system, I'd assume so
great unit
Do each of the bonus projectiles get the +bonus to seige and building?
Ooooh... my Gothy Bois got ANOTHER birthday present this year!
Does it require Chemistry tech to create?
Does the sail logo (eagle?) of the dromon change for huns and goths?
Wait, so Goths have a Roman-time shore bombarder, but also have things like hand cannoneers...
Droming on about it
now i miss the mangonel delete trick
It's like a long ranged, lateen rigged version of the Carrack from "Realms".
Is Spirit planning to take a look at the fixed Organ Gun?
mangonel on a ship basically. i think it could be a substitute to demo ships to blow up enemy units near shoreline or on shallows.
It's just water mangonel replacing cannon galleon that's better against other ships and worse against buildings.