The New Persians!
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2023
- Ever heard of the Savar? Don't worry, it's new and I'm breaking it down for you: all the new changes to the Persians and how to play them. I cannot wait to try them out! Let me know what you think about the Civilization in the comments!
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TheViper | Professional Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition Player for GamerLegion | Sponsored by Re-Bo - Ігри
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Make sure to check out my Georgians Overview: ua-cam.com/video/x0CEb4ERCkY/v-deo.html
And the Armenians overview: ua-cam.com/video/8GGo2XnzPoM/v-deo.html
That citadel tech looks pretty good, on top of everything else, I like what the devs are doing.
Exactly!!! :D:D:D
Always loved the Persians as a civ. Hopefully the changes help it become a stronger civ in the game.
now they are probably to strong.. i am sure they will nerf some stuff later
this is a bot comment / payed for comment if I've EVER seen one ... "hopefully the changes help it get stronger" ??? What the fuck lmaooo... The changes literally buffed the absolute shit out of a civ, that's not the worst civ in the game, but was already a solid pick.
@@GummBo3 thanks ill try to be more human next time 💀
@@Founder- Let's just hope and cross our fingers that the civ gets better in the game ong
the comment is very human@@Founder-
I, personally, cannot wait for more rage forrest full elephant strats
I like the savar. My biggest nitpick with AOE is the fact that all units look the same for all civs (except unique ones of course). I wish they were at least visually different depending on the culture, and the savar is something close to my wish.
That's a lot more information to remember.
@@josephc5990 Get a better brain.
@@josephc5990It's not that hard. And you can keep some design patterns among all different looking units so its easier to identify which is which.
Fully agreed! Loving the unique upgrade and regional unit concepts the devs are focusing on
might teutonic knights be the next option
Awesome!!!
Man I love the 2 new civs from the looks of them and now one of my old favourites, the Persians, are reworked and more unique again, fantastic!
Persians best pocket civ in team games now imo. Good eco. A unit thats beats Paladin and is better vs archers and better trade. Top pick in futur tournaments
They barely beat generic paladins so if they are to fight against paladins with civ bonus like Teuton or Frank, they will lose for sure.
@@windwindy5356 Not by much though. Teuton Paladins are slower too so it will be better raiding and helping your team.
@@windwindy5356 they had generic paladins before this anyway. straight upgrade for persians.
@@windwindy5356 They will beat those in teamgames. Usual imp comp is paladin + arbalest and Savar are A LOT more resistant to arbalest fire. Coupled with already being slightly better than paladins in melee... yeah, they will dominate. Basically Persian player will be losing his cavalry a lot slower than opponent and once cavalry is gone from one side, ranged units get mopped up quickly.
I love these videos! So much information in a short amount of time, everything broken down nicely, additional clear information on the screen - and everything still presented in a very pleasant way. Great work 👍
Viper thanks for the effort you put into making these so quickly!
The visual breakdowns of the changes and comparison of Savar(Paladin) stats was so clean!
I legit lol’d when you said “Make Elephants great again” - great video Vipy as always keep it up good sir
The two new civs look fun, but Persia is my personal highlight, really looking forward to them.
I thnk they should try to do more unique upgrade for normal unit for each civ, which add more uniqeness to it, for example knight templar to replace teuton paladin, maybe make them have more attack, and extra melee armor.
LOVE this idea!
there is a unit called crusader knight that appears in the campaign that on Teuton side, it's basically a paladin with -60hp but with a wooping 4/4 armor and 18 attack
and that cannot be converted, which is a cool detail
I hope we see more of these "secondary" unique units replacing classic units and being just slightly better than the original
Or maybe more specialized
just the 5% work rate in dark age made them S-tier at DE's launch... so yeah, they're back already
I really like that they did not just give them another random bonus (sometimes to improve a civ, they just get something for free or more effective which does not fit into the whole picture of the civilisation), but some things that fit the civilisation or does not change their identity with the war elephants and cavalry.
Great vid Bipey!
Cool Video Viper!!!
Nice, will be fun to try out
Leaving the Indian elephant inaccuracy, I'm happy with their technology for castles and Savar's armour. In the old AoE2, Persians had "boiling oil" upgrade to destroy Rams very easily. This Citadel tech is a new version of that along with stronger castles, very neat!
It is noteworthy the AoE2 Persians are still based on the Sasanian culture with religions like Zoroastrianism and Manichaeism (200-600 AD). Some people are confusing Citadel castle "bullets" to refer to hand cannoneers of post-Sasanian empires. These "bullets" are actually referring to fire brands and blazing projectiles used in and around the Indian subcontinent to disrupt enemy siege formations. Parthian and Sasanian empires employed these techniques, with older records even mentioning "thunderous fire from the heavens" when Macedonians-Greeks like Alexander attacked Indian frontiers. These techniques were indeed predecessors of modern gunpowder, maybe that's why the devs called them "bullets".
I really doubt that Alexander the Great encountered gunpowder at all...
@@krystofcisar469 AFAIK true, but just trying to put history in context since devs called them "bullets" (and they are not gunpowder per se, but rather projectiles of some other inflammable material)
We all expected this for a long time, let's wait the replacement for the Franks "Super paladin" into unique unit... And make guns great again!
Japanese civ change proposal: Devs should change Samurai to stable cavalry unit in place of knight-line & and add a *new unique infantry unit Ninja* (with heavy bonus damage against defensive buildings like castles)
Reason: Samurai were really good at fighting on horseback and the knight-line seems wrong for them. Ninja unique unit can relate to their tradition of sneaking into fortifications and destroying them (maybe give them high pierce armour but low hp and low melee armour).
Umm no however the japanese will receive cav archer bonus damage agaisnt archers
Would it make sense if there was a monk tech that requires the enemy to use 2 monks to convert a unit? Or more specifically convert an elephant (and possibly siege)?
As a Persian fan since the 90es, I'm really happy that they finally got some love. What I like especially is that each of the changes seems to try and address one of the common weaknesses/criticisms with the Persians.
- only having 2 civ bonuses -> now you have 5, 3.5 more than before
- the faster TCs starting in Feudal being a clunky and temporary eco bonus at best -> the 5% faster TCs in Dark Age will give you essentially one more free villager, which can smoothly snowball into one of the best ecos in the game. On top of that, you get the cav generating gold as a long term eco bonus on top. It's not game breaking, but definitely helpful. In a standard game with 100-200 military deaths, that's 500-1000 more gold. Finally, you get the Caveranserai for team games. So the Persians now have essentially 4 eco bonuses on top of having all eco upgrades, all addressing different stages and aspects of the game, definitely pretty wild.
- only having generic units in the middle stages of the game -> Parthian Tactics in Castle Ages gives you straight up one of the best cav archers at that stage. It's not cheap, but definitely also not impossible at that stage. It will still fall off in Imperial due to missing Bracer, but from late Castle to early Imp, it's definitely a strong option to help overcome that period. Savar being the endgame of knights also gives you a valid reason to go for them in the mid-game.
- having functionally no Unique Unit in most cases -> The Savar not only looks badass but gives Persians a viable Peusdo Unique Unit outside the War Elephant. It's still locked behind a expensive Imp tech, but if you get there you get essentially a cheaper Paladin which does everything a generic Paladin does while also attacking slightly faster, taking 83 Arb shots instead of 60, having +5 Bonus damage against archers and generating gold when killing units.
- War Elephants being completely unviable in most cases -> They will likely remain a niche unit, but still, between Mahouts and the cheaper Elite upgrade, you save 1250 resources, they now double as a Pseudo Siege Elephants with the +30 against buildings, move slightly faster and generate gold when killing units. And you have an even stronger eco behind it. Should make switching into them at least a bit more viable.
- Having an mostly useless Imp UT (on top of a situational Castle UT) -> Citadelles now just gives you straight up one of the best castles in the game. This also addresses the Persians otherwise lackluster defenses
Overall, all the changes add some much-needed flavor to the Persians while keeping their core aspects alive and I hope it will help them to finally have a place outside of Persian Douche and Michi Meme strategies again.
Not to mention in a long 1v1 post imp game, you can justify making elephants when gold runs out for pop efficiency with hussar kills.
Mahouts like Berserkergang and original Royal Heirs is implemented in the Elite upgrade
We just need logistica on cataphract now to be added in the elite upgrade, so every civ can have real unique tech that aren't just necessary buff on some unique units (cataphract without logistica are just weak cavalier that tank pikemens).
Then byzantine could have another imperial age unique tech, like a buff to their siege (which would be nice considering their cheap trash to defend it), something to help their archers/cav/infantery to be a power unit in late game, or anything else to make them the late game monster they should be
So hyped! I’ve been playing Persians lately as I was worried the overhaul would make them so different I’d miss out on playing with the OG Persians. Now it turns out they kept their cav identity, war eles and trashbows, and now they got more viable cav archers! I think it will most likely be nerfed soon after release as they may become too strong with all of this, but I’m hyped nonetheless.
And the Architecture is being changed.
question: do castles still ahve ballistics if they shoot bullets not arrows? Bullets are usally gunpowder associated and not effected by ballistics. But bombard towers get ballsitics too. So why castles shouldnt, right??? Nice vid. THX
I think they should give the CA plus one range in imp but not attack and still no bracer just so only having 6 range in imp isn’t a problem as historically if I’m not mistaken they did use cavalry archers more than a lot of other civs
What are your thoughts on the dark age bonus being back? I thought the removal of it was a good thing but now they get it back with all these other changes? That's the only thing I'm questioning
The Persians not getting Parthian tactics really rubbed me the wrong way previously so I think this is a very good fix considering the Parthians as a civilisation were Persian.
The reason is Parthians were too old to be put in AEO2. 247 BC-224 AD.
The Persians in AOE2 are The Sassanid Empire which they lived 224 to 651 AD.
However the Campaign they made For Ismael is not anywhere near the Sassanid Empire... Which ruled Safavid Empire from 1501 to 1524.
i love age 2 the best age by far! great they keep making expansions instant buy
Where I can find updated tech tree?
It Makes a lot of historical sense for the Persians to have Parthian tactics, given that the Persian Civ in game represents, amongst other civilisations, the Sassanid Persians, who made heavy use of Parthian Horse Archers, the Parthians themselves were an Iranic people, just like the Persians.
I'm coming back from the zone days. How does the multiplayer match making in DE compare to msn gaming zone? Can I find game rooms and chat inside the room and also chat outside the lobby? I'm thinking about the "social" aspect of it.
i do find it funny that we see the persians; who effectively were the Inventors of Cataphract armor (heavy armor), actually have it on a unit now.
They should lose +50f & +50w civ bonus in the start
i count literally 7 buffs lmao. persians did kinda need it tho
Idea: Give them the regular elephants with +30 vs buildings, remove the knight line and put the mahut as uu from the castle? Would give them a much more unique feeling i think. Now they sound a little much like hindoustanis to me.
Also I think the Byzantines should get the warrior monks and get a new team bonus (eg. share unique castle units,).
I get and like that they change these things but persians were not horrible. Already great in Teamgames and on Nomad I.e. Now they thought how many buffs do persians need and the answer was: Yes!...?
+5 gold sounds very OP
I'm starting to get really worried about power creep in AoE2.
I still find a lot of the newer UUs overpowered. Gbeto massed massacre everything.
@@synergygaming65 Anything massed is of course dangerous.
Today I won a game with a mass of elite Teutonic Knights, which are not generally considered a strong unit. My opponent just didn't know how to respond to it and took bad engagements as I pushed.
Still, there's a pretty clear trend in AoE2 to tune civs towards being stronger rather than towards the baseline. This is dangerous game design.
They do nerf DLC civs after release and buff weak old civs so no worry
@@Infinite_Jesterthe obvious response is massed japanese kataparuto trebs 11 - seriously have done this though and it works and they can kite the etk
@@windwindy5356 Buffing "weak old civs" is what makes the power creep so insidious.
Not nerfing new civs to the old power level is a problem. You shouldn't need to buff new civs to a higher power level.
This is a well-documented problem in game design. The reasons developers create power creep is either because A) factors independent of the game itself (e.g. they need people to buy a product to remain competitive) or B) they've failed to balance the game properly.
I would posit that, yes, you and me should both worry if they are looking to buff old civs.
Persians huge Buff
I hope more civs will have some cool rework since Hindoustanis.
Når kommer disse endringene? Samtidig som de nye civene i enden av måneden?
I am polishing my tusks in anticipation of the new Persians!
Persians should be one of the strongest civs to be honest.
Persians without parhian tactics make as much historical sense as Chinese without black printing... ou wait. :
When is the new patch coming? Or has it already came?
I played a couple of days ago Bukhara, but there was no Savar available. So, I mainly lost the Paladin haha. Maybe I'm missing some upgrade or something.
persion castles going pew pew :O
i hope we see this mechanic maybe on other civs too in the future... maybe turks with pew pew towers?
I seriously expected that they were going to give battle elephants to the Persians and make the War elephant an unique upgrade for them (like imperial camels/skirms). I guess making them faster helps but still will be very niche and used only for late games in 3vs3/4vs4.
Also i find funny they gave them back the 5% work rate at dark age, when i remember clearly that single bonus made the civ broken in all hybrid maps and everyone was bitching about the civ.
persions look dope!!!
How is the cavalry raid rate compared to Keshigs? I feel it attacks that unit's niche
This sounds like a huge buff, are they going to be a top civ??
we need more normal line unique units like this, the savar alone is enough for me to pick up persians
looks OP af !
vipy giving us bedroom eyes
The same should be done for the Teutons. They should replace the Paladins as the Savars do here but with Crusader Knights, with the immunity against monks and all.
So the town center working faster perk.... Does that effect vill production AND tech research times?
Thats literally everything it does :D they used to have 10% bonus in dark age.
Un abrazo Viper :D excelente video, please si puedes date una vuelta por el aoe 4, que también esta por lanzar nuevas civilizaciones :)
Persian Elephant spam will be super broken on some tgs
I love the changes to the Persians.
Wait, if the new armenian composite bowman has great matchup against chu ko nu and rattan archer, which are anti anti archer archers, that mean they are the anti anti anti archer archer archer?
Why would composite bowman has great matchup against chu ko nu? Composite bowman only ignore pierce armour. Doesn't deal additional damage vs other archers as far as we know it. Base on Mike's empire video, they actually lose against chu ko nu.
Edit: they actually also lost against rattan archer as well due to less range.
every archer is basically superior to composite bowman in this case.. i mean 4dmg and 4 range is really poor. Suppose they gonna work rather as situational unit...
No, they are garbage against other archers due to short range. They're good vs melee units with medium-high pierce armor
The question that really matters: Will condotierros do bonus damage against a castle with Citadels?
😮
Hmmm if so -25%.
I think not though.
MEGA
Make Elephants Great Again
It's perfect
So Persian is the new meta, good to know xD
Do they receive Bracer now? Cheap archers and good cavalry archers are nice, but without bracer they're too weak vs other archers in imperial
3:23 - Viper: 1,000 food and 600 gold
Text: Upgrade from Cavalier: 1,000 food and 500 gold
huh? 11
I always thought Paladin was a strange unit for Persians simply because they had mounted units of their own. Savar is just perfect addition to the game.
So I tested out the new civs right off the bat there okay to play with but I think the fortified church’s are going to be a problem as they defensive power could be abused quite easily with more so offensive by going forward to the opponent and potentially drop forward towers and fortified churches which could easily snowball your opponent pritty quickly if not careful especially given their cheep cost to build and has the same HP to a standard TC does which costs both wood and stone to build which arguably should apply to the fortified churches as soon as the next patch comes out to nerf the cost to include stone cost as well as increasing the wood cost slightly to a total possible cost of 300W and 100S to build
Idea: remove elite skirmisher from Persians, but give them bracer?
Would be unique aside from Turks, already have trashbows lategame, and would make their CA viable in imp.
how much overpowered do you want your persians? yes
But Turks have hussars with + 1 extra pierce for fighting against archer in every time. Persian dont and they need Elite skirm in Castle.
@@lloydreed4721 Persians get trashbows, knight bonus and now even infinite gold trickle. Losing elite skirm is a reasonable nerf, offset with full CA for their 'cav-only' identity.
@@user-xo9ig8kc3u but the infinite gold trickle is why you don't need to give them bracer. That would enable a never ending spam of CA in Imp. We'll have to see how strong they are like this. Remeber they were considered the best civ when they had the +5% faster working TC in dark age without the new bonuses. Now they have a even better economy, better paladin and good CA's. I'm sure there going to be top 3 on all maps even like this.
@@nemossangeomatrix6841 Ok, maybe give them bracer and remove E.Skirm *&* Halberds from Persians lol
3:22 I think there's a discrepancy between what's being said and the graphic on screen, otherwise great video.
Why always certain civs get good upgrades?
I'm glad they are keeping the civilisation mostly the same and just making adjustments, it's a classic civilisation that just needed a bit of rebalancing.
I'm still waiting for the Ghaznavids to be split out from the Persians.
Viper maybe the Shavar is the gate for the developers to introduce more unique units for civs, and stop the generic ones. What do you think? It will be more atractive that Japanese catn make Paladins for example, and be able to create their own paladin?? What do you think
LETS FUCKINGGGG GOOOOOOO
This guy should work for Tell Sell😅
I love this game
They need to rework the Chinese into 3 civs depending on the dynasty with focus on different unit type. The current Chinese is so weak
It needs Bombard Cannons fr. How can a civ that invented gunpowder, has Bombard Towers and Cannon Galleons, but cannot put the damn cannons on wheels.
These changes all seem cool, but like too much powerwise. Like yes, they were below average, but giving them like 6 relevant buffs seems way too much. I really want to try to play them, they seem super cool, but also like the number one civ in the game, easily.
Really glad they didn't break up a classic civ, that would have been blasphemous.
Savar with new armor 4+4 will melt archer line and cav archers.....Imagine a group of 40 savar, can kill 100 plume archers/arbalest, even can deal with 60 mangudai 🥶
They also have a +3 bonus against archers lol
@@varunmanjunath9123 How ? I only know about the +2 bonus against archer
@@franbeliz1960 Viper says it at 3:50
@@varunmanjunath9123Total +5 he said, with all the bonus, crazy damage haha
Personally I always loved Persians. Can't wait to see the CA and the Savars in action
😢Just give the Persian cav archer one more tile range please
Parthian tactics will probably just be researched on the way to imp. The investment is quite high to slow your treb / bracer timing.
Edit: wait no bracer 11.... dead end CA
More elephants!
What’s the attack speed of savar vs paladin. Anyone know
Paladin is 1.9 while savar is 1.8
So savar is slightly faster
@@Limu80 thanks bro. Movement speed?
❤
wow
Why does Viper always sound sarcastic.
I like your tender voice.
Keen to see a China expansion with Khitans and Jurchens as available civs
NoicE!
Yeah!!! 💚🐍 elephantos now will be worthy
Savar will stomp archer civs…
Persians have the strongest per pop unit in the game
especially since Mahouts is now built in.
Does the Persian team bonus apply to the horse archers？
No, that states knights.
Ths, but my question should be re-phrased: are Persian knights do 2 more damage against horse archers?@@TheViperAOE
Georgians was my wayto go but... boy does this look awesome!