Henry Ford vs Karl Marx. Epic Rap Battles Of History (Reaction)
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ORIGINAL: • Henry Ford vs Karl Mar...
Henry Ford vs Karl Marx. Epic Rap Battles Of History (Reaction) - Розваги
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No
“Um actually, Ford was good for Michigan, it was the laws that changed” 🤓, yeah bro, no shit, Ford Motors weren’t going to be allowed to abuse their workers anymore. Also saying he didn’t have anything to do with that is crazy, he made Michigan reliant on the car industry without thinking about the long term consequences of having only one main source of employment.
Yep. What I came to the comments to say. His line about liberal policies is wildly inaccurate.
The view that "greed is an essential part of the human condition" is just as dogmatic as the view that "greed is purely a product of one's social and material conditions". The insistence that one of these must be right is what keeps leading capitalist and communist societies to their failures.
Well, the first statement about greed is objectively true. Verified by evolutionary biology and reaffirmed by psychology in both behavioral and neurological study. It’s a survival trait like many others that humans do not need to learn to possess. The second statement is objectively false. Do with that information what you will for developing the rest of your philosophy.
@@WeSkeem Both greed and altruism came about through evolutionary means and are adaptive responses to different kinds of circumstances. The presence and prominence of either one is deeply context dependent, even if they're neither completely determined by social and material conditions nor, in any practical sense, eliminable. If you have studies that say something to the contrary, can you please send me a link?
@@nickolashessler314 He's using the word objective without even knowing the meaning, you think he has a source?
@@Oakwin_mb He said he's done reading on this and he sounded very confident in his conclusions. He even used big boy words like "evolutionary" and "neurological". Surely he must have good scientific resources to cite. You don't think he would just make that up just to look authoritative on the subject, do you?
@@nickolashessler314 ...You are asking for proof that desire is inherent to humanity. You are asking for proof that *DESIRE* is inherent to humanity! You might as well ask for him to cite the studies that prove 2+2=4. Desire might be exacerbated by social conditions, but it isn't caused by them. Why would you even think anything other than this?
Your entire life is driven by one desire or another. This video is a prime example of the concept at work. We desired entertainment, so we watched this video, and then you desired to make a comment about it and I desired to see what other people thought. The societal construct of a social website like UA-cam allow us to act on that desire, leading to this conversation.
The desires all originate in your biology and are then molded by your environment. Just like how it is for literally every creature that exists.
I really think Marx had this one. It wasn't a blowout, but it was a W.
- Ford ordered the police and security to open fire on the employees that went on strike. He may not have done it himself, but it was enough to make America wake up to the problem that corporate money could cause these kinds of problems. It's under the same umbrella that moustache man didn't personally go into combat, but ordered the funny cross lads to do it for him.
- Ford only made like 4 real disses and one of them was used like 3-4 times. It's like, yeah, we get it, Marx was a dirty dude. Got anything else? It wasn't as bad as Babe Ruth vs. Lance Armstrong, but it was approaching that.
- Marx had a solid 8 disses. Compared to Ford's only 4 unique ones.
- imo, Ford = better flow, Marx = better disses. 90% of rap battle is what you say. Saying it creatively helps, but the verse has to actually be good. Ford's dad jokes and flexes really weren't enough for me.
Marx was literally in favor of death with his communist ideas dummy. You know NOTHING about history.
Honestly? Literally this.
From a RAP BATTLE standpoint, Marx won.
We can argue all day about whether he won ideology-wise... but the BATTLE was a Marx W.
A solid 8 disses, that Skeem explained were not really hits since it wasn't really something Ford would be affected by, or the 'comebacks' had deep rooted issues from Karl's side that he's ignoring. So no, I disagree. Karl should've gone for Ford's personal life, but only hit him there twice. Not good enough.
A grim reminder that police's primary function back then was not so much law and order, but corporate security, suppressing striking workers. They've been crushing strikes in Boston or in one of those atrocities, that were company towns.
He's a brainwashed neoliberal. Anyone with a brain will say Marx won and had the more correct bars but his brain is still hooked on Cold war Reaganomics koolaid.
One thing I disliked about Ford was he used the "you are poor, stinky, dirty" line again and again. Most ERB with most counts of the same bar since Lance Armstrong v Babe Ruth. That being said, I still really liked that battle.
Yeah i didnt realize on my initial listen just how many times that got brought up until I listened to skeem ranting about it. It really did feel a bit like lance going "Hey did you know babe was fat?!" Its probably offset by the number of other varied shots ford took on unrelated issues.
At least in Armstrong v Ruth the reused line is a serious diss about something that ruined Armstrong's career. I'd say this is closer to Gordon Ramsay finding a ton of ways to call Julia Childs ugly.
This is what I said. He played the poor, dirty, hippy line way too much. And I saw someone say ‘Marx called himself a drinker/alcoholic’ which is a self diss but also he brings up 8mile/Eminem later which is how Rabbit wins the battle by owning his flaws and taking the power away
Dude you very obviously never bever read marx. He literally wrote a whole ass book against utopianists.
Which was horribly ironic.
I agree with your assessment that neither pure socialism nor pure capitalism are healthy for society.
However, it seems like you're holding Marx and Ford to drastically different standards. You thought it was fine when Ford blamed Marx for what people did with his ideas decades after he was dead (he died in 1883, the Russian revolution was in 1917). But you didn't like it when Marx laid out the long term effects of the rise of the automotive industry. Before the rise of the automobile, the US had a booming rail system, both trans-continental, and expanding into mass transit for the growing urban centers. The auto industry (sometimes with the help of political corruption) helped stymie that growth, and in some cases (like LA in the US and Brisbane where I currently live) even dismantled top quality mass transit. Rail is not only cleaner, but also safer (by distance travelled, you are 10x more likely to die in a car than a train). Unlike Marx, the long term effects could be seen in Ford's life; people had been concerned about pollution of the air, water, and ground since the late 1800s.
Problem is, skeem was talking about Human and technological advancements. With the human population being so fucking huge these days, there is no way a rail system would be enough to sustain travel for so many people, especially since roads supporting cars and other motor vehicles are far more common than one that sustains an entire railway line. (Im talking about structure btw, as in making road stable for lighter vehicles is far easier than sustaining a train) Its the whole reason cars were made in the first place, to replace Horses and carriages for travel. By your argument, you could say ditch the horses, use trains instead but as I mentioned, the booming population would make train commutes a nightmare. Even in a country like Japan where the Trains are considered the fastest and most efficient in the world, and the fact many Japanese dont use cars and prefer bicycles or the train, the train stations are still a fucking mess. Sure, it moves a lot faster and more efficiently than other countries, but still a crowded hot mess.
Climate change and car crashes are just a side effect, hell, there are so many causes to Climate change and the rise of carbon dioxide and other shit that blaming the automotive industry isnt really that big of a diss especially now that we're advancing to Electric cars for this very reason. in 50 years or so, its very likely electric cars will be the norm, and this climate change line will hold even less water. And as for car crashes, that's the human factor. Very few car crashes were caused by tech failure, and most were human error. Not really something you can blame Ford for.
Now for Marx's side, we have a different can of worms. His ideology, while it was twisted by people with an agenda, true, would have prevented a ton of deaths had it not existed in the first place. That's the thing. Cars, vehicles, any form of transportation will be developed sooner or later, if not by Ford, by someone else. Same thing with Air travel. These are inevitable. But Marx brought his half-baked ideologies into the limelight causing the masses to start going nuts and for world leaders to look at it and go "Hmm, cool book now how do we twist it to fuck everyone up?"
So even if you say that he didn't directly cause or encourage Communists nutcase leaders to murder millions, the fact remains that if the bastard never existed, a lot less damage would've been caused. Socialism, communism are ideals that could've stayed buried, but technological advancement is inevitable is what I'm saying.
The masses were treated like dirt. They had every right to go nuts.
And would have with or without Marx's ideas.
If Marx gets the wrap for Communism he must also get the credit of the fruits of Social Democracy which *saw gigantic strides in worker's rights and social security - lifting 10s millions out of poverty and drastically improving living standards for all of us.*
I would count that a bigger achievement than Ford's technological advances - you admit yourself were coming down the track anyway.
The rest of your comment, I agree with.
and don't forget, electric cars predate gas ones, by like, 50 years. the earliest electric cars were made 1832. which means that, yes, while karl and Lincoln were exchanging letters about ending slavery and the civil war in the US, there were workshops around the world where people were working on electric cars.
It was the auto-industry, and Ford that worked to keep them from the public and pushed the gasoline engine (which needed more maintenance, thus more servicing, thus more profit.) Henry directly help prevent 100 years of technological advancement. and that tech could have helped the rail industry, too.
Marx was an idealist, that caused harm indirectly (China and Russia's leaders), Ford caused harm directly (his personal bodyguards DID kill people during the protests) AND indirectly (he supported Germany during WW2), so in MY book, Marx won.
And if Marx never wrote his concepts down, bad people would have found other systems to abuse and excuses for murder.
? Marx was quite literally the opposite of an Idealist, he didn't even say how to run a communist country or what one should look like. He was a Materialist who with Das Kapital and his other writings criticized Capitalism, more importantly Victorian Era capitalism which was horrendous work conditions with no pay.
@@sleepyllama3673 As Marx said in the rap "You didn't read shit." Or what Ford called "Das Krapital". People love to shit on Marx without ever reading any of his work, or at best reading the pamphlet that is The Communist Manifesto. I'm not saying there aren't valid criticisms of Marx or his work but this is what Marx is referring to in the rap, in my opinion.
Marx didn’t do anything, but his ideas caused a lot of bad and indirectly some could argue some good. But he, at the end of the day, was a leech on society who caused more damage than many delusional religious leaders throughout history. Ford did stuff, and his work caused a mixed bag of results good and bad.
So far as the battle here, I like Fords stuff better. Mostly because it was more true, even if repetitive. So Ford wins for me.
But both these real-life dudes can lick my butt stuff.
Bruh at worst you can say Marx influenced Lenin but after that he has nothing to do with what came after. Marx never gave guidelines as to how socialist leaders should run their countries.
I can't really agree with your assessment that Marx caused "nothing but harm" the same philosophy that brought the USSR and China to communism is what made Europe and America adopt social programs around the same time... And also pretty much every government in history was capitalist, and lots of them were awful. Tbh the closest thing to Marxs vision when it comes to countries is Sweden, the Unions there are extremely powerful. But of course, that's because his vision is unrealistic at such a large scale. There are small communes that do practice it.. But there's tiny groups of people.
This is incorrect btw. All of this post by Lev.
@@Ace22 Which part?
Didn't he talk about how nations would need to disband, and people gather into small communes, for Communism to work effectively?
As a Michigan resident, Ford has had a long-lasting impact on the great lakes, that are in fact worse than flint's water pipes, one of the most saught out things in Michigan come from the waters around Ford factories, I think they're called "ford stones" but I'm not sure, they're "rocks" made up of all the lead based paint they were dumping in the water, which have solidified into hard chunks.
“Karl Marx’s ideas were simplistic” bro fr has never read Das Kapital
I have, his ideas were simplistic. Not because of any inherent fault but just because industry hadn't developed that far yet, he couldn't see what was coming any more than anyone else.
Bro.. you must of been alot of fun in your sociology classes haha.
I mean your not wrong clearly what Marx was striving for was an academic bubble ideal of a utopian society where humanity actually worked for the improvement of society as a whole. But as we know and you pointed out correctly that historically people are self interested and greedy which leads to always having someone that wants to be at the top.. usually the worst sort through out history. To immediately dismiss what his personal ideals were based on how history played out though I felt was a was a bit much.
Oh and I wouldn't even bring it up but you kept going back to the point claiming that communism has killed more people that capitalism. While the totals can vary from source to source most agree that capitalism / fascism has killed VASTLY more people then socialism / communism.
Either way great to have you reacting to new stuff always a good time. :)
I was a villain to everyone except the professor in my Sociology 101 and Philosophy 101 classes. Would’ve been interesting if more people were on my side aside from the professor in the higher level courses, but I went into psychology instead and the “non-science” topics became less frequent.
And I’ve looked at the Reddit fueled “consensus” and the lengths that are gone to pretend Capitalism has a higher death toll are always entertaining. In order to get an accurate toll you have to use consistent parameters. Sample same amount of years, calculate death per capita rather than raw total, be very specific on the causes of death that could qualify, etc. And even without this level of scrutiny, it’s still a stretch to give capitalism the higher death toll if you’re being honest about the numbers.
@@WeSkeem Eh well I meant it.. if I had been in that class with you I bet it would of been an absolute riot and I likely would of taken your side given that I find it more amusing to have to debate against the majority.
Regarding taking 'facts' from Reddit.. agreed that is a potentially dangerous hole to fall in to but there ARE sources outside of that. Also I agree that using consistent parameters is important but difficult given that as with most things people can and will cherry pick figures that support their argument.
There is also the issue that there are multiple forms of each system and not really any one ideal absolute to compare so people always end up jumping to the extreme's of each side. An example being that you did go in with Stalin/Mao regarding communism but didn't really go in at all on the fact that Hitler was an extreme on the other side of the spectrum. Terrible leaders all around!
Can't lie I really want to go into this further but youtube isn't really the place haha... so will just end it with saying that I enjoy your work bud and will definitely be along for the ride. ;)
@@WeSkeem Lol I love this projection because to inflate communist's kill count you count dead nazi soldiers, dead civilians killed by nazis/japanese, non births, dying of old age (at a higher life expectancy than pre-communism) and covid deaths as communism's fault.
The fact you liberals don't get that this is done in response to your insane counting of deaths under communism speaks volume.
If you believe 100 million killed by communism. I'll say 1.3 billion were killed by capitalism in the same time frame.
@@WeSkeem your miserable country is responsible for the capitalist dictatorships in south america during the 70s
@@WeSkeem Because people that are pro-capitalism don't think deaths related to the exploitation of the working class or foreign citizens count.
Ima just go and say, skeem got a lil triggered about Marx saying greed caused graves. lol. That rant went from informative to personal lol
Deservedly so. People not taking responsibility for their own dumb ideas causing problems is annoying lol
@WeSkeem yeah but then when Marx got to the shooting dead in the street line you felt the need to clarify that Ford himself didn't shoot the protesters. Who did Karl Marx personally kill?
@@WeSkeemtomorrow I will go and do some stupid stuff and say I was inspired by you. You then will become the piece of shit according to your logic lol
grow up
@@NoPawn well, himself, I suppose? He really was a homeless drunk who abused his own body...
I was of course waiting for the reaction from "The Official ERB Reaction Channel" :)
And I was not disappointed
This is the battle that made me not understand the diss' or mentions, I know who both are but never knew much about them, but glad we have you to break this down, good stuff 👌
Even if you don't like socialism itself, who the hell do you think was marching for all of the protections that we have now? It's always been socialists and those that align with them that have lead the way to making our lives better.
Not Marx, that is for sure. Most people who call themselves socialist and like Marx haven't read him and don't know the first thing about what he wanted. 99% of socialists are capitalists who like safety regulations.
Lmao!!! That ism breakdown/rant was worth every minute waiting for this to drop 😂😂😂
I missed Skeem and new ERB. As Ice Cube once said. Today is a good day
The Jenny thing was addressed by Vlogging Through History during his reaction to the battle. At the time, it was normal for Prussians to name all their kids the same way. They differentiated them by their middle names
Oh yay, another rant of someone who doesn't understand even the basics of Marx's ideology.
Marx only outlined what he predicted the "next step" that would then be the point when they figure out what the next step would actually look like.
To sum up the part that Marx(not Lenin or anyone who came later) talked about was basically getting rid of the owners, and let the workers own the businesses instead. So that companies would work closer to a democracy rather than the monarchy that they currently do.
As for at least a single important thing that Marx did - Unions. How Unions function is to collectivize the power of the workers to counter the power of the business and owners. That's the core of what Marx wrote about.
It’s almost like I mentioned that and mocked the idea of the workers “owning” everything as being practical at all. It’s laughable. And unions are not a good thing. They are a reflection of where capitalism fails. And they don’t do an adequate job to fix the problems they address and often simply bring new problems. You don’t fix capitalism with socialism. You have to create a different system. Marx attempted to do just that. And his system sucked.
Been waiting for this one
"Grrr, i dont like what this dude did irl so i dont like him in this fictional rap battle" what a childish POV
Scru face Jean stays at the top of rap reactors for me
You clearly didn’t watch the video.
Also SFJ a top reactor? Funny joke man.
@@The-X-Territory you know this dude sucks when many literal historians have said that Marx won
@@milky677avocado2, what historians? How many of them are trying to be unbiased? Skeem has enough knowledge in his field to have what should be considered a professional opinion, so I’ll listen to him over a biased “historian”.
@@The-X-Territory nope. Historians aren't biased. They're historians judging these guys off of what was said in the battle and it's significance irl. These historians arent even from communist countries
Karl Marx's line that his concept didn't cause mass graves is correct. Since, Mao and Stalin didn't "implement" Marxism, they followed Marxist-Leninism, which is considerably different, with vanguard party and other shit.
Moreover Karl Marx meant communism to be applied in a industrialized country like Western Europe and US, not agricultural and poorer nations like Russia and China.
Russia had been industrializing since the late 1800s, hence the reason for demands for workers' rights.
@@mikkitoro8933 only the urban areas were slightly industrialized at the time the revolution. The majority of the population, around 82% was dependent on agriculture. compare that to around 37% during the USSR and 6.7% in 2015. That is kinda the reason Stalin's forced industrialization had so many bad effects
Now, i get what youre saying about both communism and capitalism being inherently wrong due to not accounting for Humanity as a whole. Thst said, i would argue thats why Karl marx is a philosopher not a world leader. Its the responsibility of people in positions to impliment these systems to prevent the abuses, not the guy who came up with it. He's producing ideas for the people to act on, not doing so himself.
Also, I'd rank Ford association with ole' mustace worse than Marx' with Mao and Stalin. Marx was dead long before either of them had any power, and some of their actions are directly opposed by Marx' writings. That's like blaming Jesus because some dipshit used the bible to justify their actions.
Ford, meanwhile, was not only alive while Hitler was, but actively supported him and even received a medal from the Nazis. It wasn't just Hitler likes him, therefore bad. Ford was one of the only US companies working in German, and you'd better believe that the factorys workers losing fingers over there were "undesireables".
Overall, i give it to Marx because he actually talked about the fucked up shit Ford did, while Ford talked aboit the fucked up shit everyone else did by cherrypicking Marx' writing to get power. Yeah, he took a few shots at Marx' hygeine, but those fall short of "when they marched for better wages, you shot them dead in the streets."
I think there were plenty of good hits on Marx directly. Such as his hypocrite nature, his lifetime of failures, his lack of contribution to the world around him, and yes- being a dirty stinky hippie.
Ford got a good haymaker in round 1 with his Jenny bar, but everything after that was just him making "You're poor and stinky."
Marx on the other did a body blow to him in each round, hitting him with an ultra combo at the end.
Not a marxist, socialist, communist, etc. But i think you miss a lot of what Marx was right about; the real reason those systems dont work isnt "just" greed, thats a very rudimentary take. Its the fact that the people dont unite to hold leaders accountable.
Thats the same reason OUR OWN system doesnt work, voters dont hold corrupt politicians accountable and therefore the governemnt cant make proper checks on corporations. Marx talked about it (most famously blamed religion as "the opiate of the masses") which some of his complaints havent aged well, but the core part is true; goverment and industry benfit from pacifying citizens. Then they feel isolated and hopeless and unable to hold leaders accountable.
Marx's ideology was flawed for sure, any philosophy made by humans will be, but the reasons he so influential, even outside of far left leaning spheres, is because he identified a major root cause for political system failures.
He's not influential outside of the leftist sphere this person is lying to you all. They hate him in fact as they should ngl.
Man it’s been a few years since I’ve watched weskeem. Glad to know you’re still going!
One could argue that Socialism was needed at the time to counter Free Market Capitalism so in the long run we could figure out some middle ground that could actually work. We will get there someday and in some places it is pretty close.
We can only hope. But I don’t think we needed an idea as foolish as communism to get there.
We can see that in hindsight but in the early to mid 1900's it was a very alluring message. We do know what happened but I do feel for the idealists at the time who thought they were fighting for a good cause
The middle ground is social democracy, wich in its basis has a Marxist foundation revised through Bernstein. Clear as water.
I mean... my only real gripe with this breakdown isnt even with the breakdown... 😅
Id argue that insurance SHOULDNT be *for profit*
Nothing that's necessary for life SHOULD be.
Healthcare... shelter... food... water... should be DIRECTLY correllated with how hard/expensive it is to produce.
Period.
So michigan failing because insuramce companies cant make profit sounds to me like a capitalism problem... not a leftist/socialist one. 😅😅😅
Insurance companies profit margins are usually regulated to be very slim. We’re talking as little as $0.10/$1 maximum profit before they are forced to lower rates. Most income from insurance companies is made via investing customer premiums in low risk consistent yield investments.
Out of interest have you ever red a single book from Marx? Because it really looks like you have at max read a summary of his thoughts.
I read “The Communist Manifesto” back in my college days. I never got around to “On the Jewish Question,” which I hear is delightfully antisemitic. I wanted to bring that up in this video since some of Marx’s bars seemed a bit hypocritical in that, but I didn’t go into that in this video since I haven’t read it and didn’t find a whole lot of into about it to be confident about how antisemitic it actually was.
@@WeSkeem but you never read either of the capital books?
@@WeSkeemOn the Jewish question was a response to Bruno Bauer's anti-Semitic work. Marx was also a secular Jew.
The point is... the manifesto is not the epicenter of Marxist theory, communists don't treat it that way and no one else should. The manifesto is just that: a manifesto. A public relations pamphlet. Propaganda for the political movement. You will not understand the inner machinations of Marxist socio-economics just by reading the propaganda leaflet.
As for your rant about greed and humans being naturally greedy... That part of the video really showed your general lack of knowledge on the subject. I'm not looking for a fight or anything, but if you truly believe that freaking KARL MARX of all people would be so childish as to not take greed into account and that all ideology is ineffective because of that... you just don't know what are you talking about.
You said you read a bit of Wikipedia about this, which is cool, you get some background context. But if you are not familiar with Marx's political and socio-economic works, it may be a good idea not to start criticizing, as this just shows how unfamiliar you are with the subject. The objective of the organized working class taking over the government, at least in the Lenenist sense, is to ensure that people cannot exploit each other. It doesn't matter if people are greedy if they can't manifest that greed through labor exploitation. This is the main point of what Marx called the “dictatorship of the proletariat”.
What he didn't consider was political power as a form of capital, which led to the totalitarian disaster of China and Stalinist Russia... some of the reasons I became a democratic socialist and began studying the participatory economy project.@@WeSkeem
@@joaopedropelisson5925 Boot licker.
Oof, you know your opinion is bad when an actual historian (amimarchy history) says that Kar Marx destroyed Ford in this battle
Your head bopping at the beginning was literally me first listening to this. 😂👍
Marx wins this one. as much as battle raps go, this should be favoring to the M. if we start w no bias, Marx has a lot of haymakers compared to Ford. (just to clarify, both of them are horrible people in their own right)
My personal notes:
Round 1 was almost a 50-50
Both each questioned each other's links (coms & nzis)
ford went for personals with jenny, Marx went w the BigBrother line
other bars are solid punches, that was balanced by each other's bars.
R2 Marx went wild on this one
Ford with the ERB classic dick bar, and that Animal Farm bar??? sheesh
Marx with 4 severed fingers a week, got shot in the streets. those lines would be enough in giving Marx the edge, especially on how he delivered it. but he ddnt stopped there, Eminem bar and Flint's. thats a clear W.
R3 another Marx W
that capitalist line from Ford was cold, but was properly defrosted by Marx's rebuttal w the explanation.
Ford ended with a bit more jabs and some dadjokes
Marx showed his dirty laundry ala B Rabbit(quite literally, w the pants), but he aired more of Ford's blood stained shirt. Edsel's Cancer, Bad father figure, the Newspaper, Nzi Factory,
This line and delivery -> "Facist sympathizing cause of global warming and car crashes"
The Auschwitz and F.O.R.D. word play was the K.O. 1-2 punch
Ford attacked Marx's physicals as much as his ideals, akin to dadjokes,but Marx went ham on Ford's ideology and humanity. We see Marx as that grandpa of red, sickles and hammer but with how he dismantled Ford, you would imagine that Ford was the mustache's direct auto supplier
you can give Ford the debatable R1, but its clear that Marx wins atleast 2/3.
Was looking forward for this video since the erb dropped. Glad you're still around.
This one had some pretty great writing. Marx and Ford were both throwing all the punches at each other
15:38 I disagree, this is the reason my country has free healthcare and education.
6:40 Communism has a smaller death count than Capitalism - Capitalism kills at least 10 million people around the world yearly from thirst and hunger. Capitalism - especially late stage - has an exorbitant death count.
Even then the famines alone caused by the British Empire racks up their death count to at LEAST 80 million. Please do your research on that before you state it in a public video
I like that capitalism is blamed for deaths in socialist/fascist countries because it doesn’t step in to help. Sorry, I only deal in factual data, not manipulation of data for an agenda.
Capitalism: bad. Communism: worse. Just study WWII and it becomes fairly obvious.
@@WeSkeemWhat is your proof for the communist death count? The Black Book of Communism has been proven to have overblown figures, and, once again, Capitalism kills if you look at UN statistics for hunger. If the world was socialist, there wouldn’t be people going hungry because we have enough food in the world currently to prevent that.
If that were the case you could at least take into account the massive amounts of death capitalism causes from overwork, or adress the fact that you can have a more balanced approach to socialism than just pure communism, such as what a lot of Europe or even Canada has to a way lesser extent. You really just seem to think in extremes regarding marx here.@@WeSkeem
@@WeSkeembut fascist countries ARE (or at least can be) capitalist... Fascism is a political model while capitalism is an economic model. A county can have both.
@@WeSkeemWell, WW1, WW2 both are imperialistic and capitalistic wars. You should have been studying more.
so happy to see this
Love the set up! lol
So much bias with a Wikipedia level knowledge base. We have plenty of Socialism in America that people really like.
Cologne isn't a country, it's a major city in Germany. 100th like, btw.
Hello, as a friendly Socialist, I am always happy to hear criticism on the topic. One thing I would like to point out though is that Karl Marx didn't actually write an ideology. There are no demands or call to action in his critique, Das Kapital, on overthrowing governments or anything like it, what he wrote was a critique of the capitalist mode of production, nothing more, nothing less.
Anything like it, applied socialism in some form or another, came later, initially with Lenin, and then other writers and people attempting to use Marx's critique to change things.
Marx's own book on the topic doesn't do anything of the sort, and it doesn't assume people aren't corrupt either, or as you call it "in fucking imagination land". His topic simply wasn't one that had anything to do with judging the character of people or how building a system of government would work if his criticism of capitalism is taken into account.
I do understand it seems to be a very emotional topic to you, for one reason or another. But if you feel the need to yell about it, I hope you can make sure the point of what annoys you is, well, correct.
If you want to yell at people for socialist regimes, you would have to look at the specific ideology and case surrounding it, it's not as simple as going "Socialism is bad, it killed people cause corruption and doesn't work", I'd appreciate that much objectivity when talking about a very expansive topic that can hardly be summed up in a few sentences.
It's been a while but I always come back to your reactions on ERB. Faithfully.
❤ love it you are the best. Love your videos
And you don't hide your bias very well.
It’s not “bias” if one believes the earth is a sphere rather than flat. Your delusion is showing 😉
Don’t think Skeem is being biased. he has a lot of hate for both of them
@@Kaizerchief11 🧢
not bias, just delusions. which is the thing you have when you think your very debatable opinion is the essence of absolute truth. @@WeSkeem
It's amazing that you actually went in on the politics while every other reactor is just gonna nod along to the beat. Great stuff
See Knox Hill's reaction
@@ThetrueKidGoku It was pro commie garbage.
Not listening to the politics of a brainrotten neoliberal, especially not what he has to say about a philosopher he never read.
what can you except from the rappers some actual knowledge? bich please(especially the colored ones *cough*)
Universal healthcare = Socialist construct (something the US desperately needs)
Social Security = Socialist construct
Police = Socialist construct
Fire dept = Socialist construct
Road infrastructure = Socialist construct
40 hour week = Socialists won that
8 hour day = Socialists won that
2 days off a week = Socialists won that
Socialist ideology has done a lot for the world; is it perfect, no, but it is better than Capitalism.
Greed is a major issue that can undo a lot of the good Socialism has done and can do; which is where it might be worth having that trait genetically engineered out
The notion that the type of communism/socialism Marx thought up is responsible for all of these concepts (most of which well predated Marxism) is always funny to me. Also, greed is a pretty essential survival trait as well as envy, jealousy, fear, etc. In excess any trait can be dangerous. However, the trait itself is not the issue.
Do i dig the whole reaction? Absolutely. But will the conversation starting at 8:17 live rent free in my head for awhile? HECK YES!
I love your reactions mane I love rewatching your Thanos vs Oppenheimer
13:18 Brazillian here. Henry Ford tried to make a city in Amazon called Fordland
Must be tough licking boots with that tape over your mouth. lol
To each according to their need
From each according to their ability
Loved the pantomiming lmao
Oh. I am here for skeem to spit truth. Thjs comment section sadness me so much. Capitalism is better overall hands down. It's like a cold war of making a better product for the people. Well that ment to be the idea. However ever since Japan completely had the best products and nobody even came close. It's been about selling the bad products and gaslighting the customers into buying from them again when their made in china thing breaks. Personally I agree with just being with a small busines. However the thing about a small busines is because they can't make it big to get profit they cut the small things to get by and make their money. Which is by overcharging or by making a weid deal with suppliers to get thing cheeper. There is a whole bunch of micro feuds that go in with business. It truly is just humans being awful and cannot balance anything amongst themselves. But at least they are motivated to get work done. Unlike the other system that has to motivate you to work. Anyway I am probably going to have skeem completely school me in my rant about all this. But yeah I really hate how bias to the higher death toal side they are. ERB wouldn't work if it wasn't run in a capitalists business style.
Alternate title: Capitalist complains about communism instead of actually judging the rap
for a long time since I picked up and learned about Socialism/Communism I have found real quickly that neither Capitalism and Socialism/Communism were not going to work. They sound solid on paper when you read it but you are correct they are not considering human factors. Really the best is part of both worlds as best as we can (in a way the introduction of Unions and the governmental influence into parts of the private sector, etc... It is a good starting to factor in the human aspects
Socialism works just fine in Europe, actually.
@@beatles123 socialism in Europe isn't true socialism as written by Marx. It takes pieces of socialism and pieces of capitalism and makes them work together we in the states did a similar thing with government funded services like Medicare/Medicaid, SSI, ETC. HOWEVER we really fucked them up, they aren't as good as they could be and they were never meant to be forever in the States
@@beatles123europe does not have socialism. We have Social democracies that are basically the middle ground between socialism and free market capitalism
Exactly, my point is that the way you adopt socialist principals works fine, and therefore a model like that is worth considering. Not everything has to be a sharp push toward communism. Socialism can bring about things other than Mao, Stalin or any sort of dictatorship, and even then: America will still tell you that any and all socialism is the devil. @@illansuu9572
@@beatles123 america practices a form of socialism called welfare
Dammit why didn’t I get notified of this yesterday?😭😭
13:40 No, Cologne is a city in Germany.
EDIT: Jesus Christ. Were you drunk for this? Even before your "mask off" you were extremely biased. ERB is about the best punchlines. Not about your political leanings. Like, I hate Donald Trump, but at least I have no problem saying that he won against Hillary Clinton in the ERB. And I'm not a marxist/communist/socialist either, so I don't have a political stake in this. But god damn.
he’s back!
You need much more education on things besides wikipeida to really understand this. Its not hard to point to something good communism did such as the greatest economic growth in history which happened in communist China.
My boi Skeemy and erb equals informative entertaining slightly condescending but humbling content.
Accurate
I believe in “Absolute power corrupts absolutely” Humans just like any other animal aren’t born to be inherently good or evil we just exist. Any system that only accounts for the absolute worse in humanity or the absolute best in humanity is going to be a little flawed.
Marx won and i will NOT hear it otherwise everything went perfectly for marx. fords lines were just shit talking karls appearance meanwhile marx went for personal blows. Handing the win to KARL MARX
This whole battle is pretty much twitter in a nutshell.
I'm a software developer, and been in and around the Open Source community almost since it was formed, starting with Richard Stallman and GNU. The Free Software/Open Source "universe" is the closest thing to a functioning communist system as we could have, and it works fantastic. But there is one CRITICAL difference between Free Software communism and "meat space" (real world) communism: Scarcity. In the virtual world, there is no scarcity. You can copy one program a billion times, and no one is impoverished. But in the real world, we have to make things out of materials, which are limited.
That scarcity screws with the communal mindset. If everything is free, and you can have infinite copies, then everyone is as wealthy as everyone else, and there is no greed because that is an incoherent concept in that environment. But as soon as you have scarcity of things, then suddenly you will have some people who want more than others.
I agree with you that a functioning economic & social philosophy & strategy needs to take human foibles into account. I'm curious to see what we will come up with now that we've seen some of the failures of naked capitalism.
A 25-minute ERB reaction? We're eating good today
not really. did like 6th graders worth of reserch on the controversial idiology really disapointed with his lack of acurate breakdowns this time
Congrats on officially becoming the official reaction channel for ERB!!
🎉
if only jesus told us about the horrors that nixon and his liberal horde would bring upon the world.
You clearly don’t understand Marxism.
I liked your reaction and analysis!
it is ironic for ERB to have Karl Marx pressing Ford for hating Jewish people even though Karl Marx himself wrote a book literally called "On The Jewish Question". It seems pretty odd for ERB to leave that detail out.
*Edited a spelling error lol
I may be rusty, but if memory serves i dont think he was proposing the jews be gotten rid of, unlike "The other guy"
Karl was antisemitic but I highly doubt he would support a mass genocide. Again he did not like slavery.
@@generalkinobi6215 granted, but by saying in his book "What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money", that doesn't mean that people won't take that idea and use it for nefarious use. At worst he would be indirectly responsible for spreading antisemitism which would inspire world leaders into enacting anti-Jewish/anti-religious policies.
first of all if you even read "on the jewish question: you would know its not a book you fucking conservative point parroting moron. Second of all on the jewish question is actually a letter that is a response to antisemtitism. Karl himself had jewish blood and while his stances might be seen as somewhat "problematic" by today's standards he literally defends the jews in that letter.
While Marx's belief in harmful stereotypes is not laudable, there is at least a kernel of truth in that in Europe, non-christians were not allowed to own land, banning all jews from farm work and manufacturing. Forcing most to seek their refuge in banking, as judaism is the Abrahamic religion that does not criminalize charging interest. But for all the benefits that loans and exchange had, nobody actually likes the man who's holding your money in trust, and might lose it all on a bad investment. It's misdirected, as banking was already becoming less controversial than in medieval times and not solely the business of jews. But it shows even a journalist like Marx wasn't free of centuries of anti-jewish views on usury, despite his own jewish ancestry.
Henry Ford though, is far more insidious. The man was engrossed in anti-semitic conspiracy theories and actively spread them in his newspaper. He completely bought into the claims of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion". A forged document purporting to show a jewish link between liberal capitalism and radical socialism as a plot to spread idealogies that diminished the prominent racism laws. It claimed that jewish leaders wanted to stoke discord between these idealogies so that if either won, the new political order would welcome them as equals and repeal exclusionary jewish laws. Because in the view of the writers, jews are parasitic and weaken the societies that tolerate them by profiting off of christians. And only the Tsar of Russia can stop them from taking over. Ergo, if you oppose the autocracy of the Tsar, you are a henchman of the jews and an enemy of the Russian people. Despite the Tsar no longer being relevant by the time the Dearborn Independent started publishing the Protocols, it would reinvigorate anti-semitism and propel it to new heights of bigotry. Hitler and Ford both fully believed that these documents were true, despite even the last Tsar knowing and admitting it was a bunch of lies. And not surprisingly, Nazi ideology took the perceived threat of the jewish conspiracy very seriously. Enough to strip german jews of their citizenship, property, and finally their lives.
Marx's views were bad, and it's not as though no jew ever suffered from the mischaracterization he perpetuated. But it is still a far cry from the alarmist notion that society is under imminent threat, and that all means are warranted to neutralize the conspiritators, as was the case for Hitler and Ford. One results in name calling, individuals getting beat up, and communities harassed. The other resulted in deliberate genocide on a continental, industrial scale by people gullible enough to convince themselves that they were doing the nation a great service carrying out the most repulsive forms of torture, human experimentation and mass slaughter.
The ERB comment section for this battle was RED af.
If you'd just stop interrupting him to yell "Get personal" over and over again, then maybe we could get to the personal shots. =p
Man you know everything.
Not gonna lie I kinda wanna hear what you think of Ren's music. I'd love a review or reaction to his Money Game trilogy after seeing this.
Funniest thing I learnt about Marx was when Engels sister died, Marx legit just goes “man that sucks, btw rents on the way, can I have some money?”
Dude was a legit parasite.
Edit: I also feel the need, thanks to my tism, to point out that fascism, Nazism, not the same thing. Similar, but also very different. The Nazi's often mocked fascists for being lesser Nazi's, and Fascists tended to think the Nazi's were fascists that went a bit too far. By half way into the war, (I'd say 42-43) most of the Axis European leaders that weren't German, were in a state of "Oh jesus oh fuck what have I gotten myself into, he's mental" which is incredibly funny to me.
I didn't know that Karl Marx populated the police force of Pallet Town😂😊
the origin of pull yourself up by your bootstraps was meant to be an oxymoron because you cant physically pull yourself up by your bootstraps but as time went on meaning change definitions change and that includes every concept
under socialism there is no private property only personal property your home car the things you actually own that arent business related like a corporation will utilize the police to arrest teens for hanging out on the owners private property
I'd rather be in a grave then be in chains
So you want to be buried and then have your corpse chained up? Odd fetish, but do you.
@@WeSkeem ideally I won't be buried in a coffin
Hey skeem, there was a toned down few words around 3:02-3:04 does it have anything to do with the spoilers?
My man def watched the reaction and made notes before the video he recorded
I like how u werent even able to explain what socialism and communism is and just went "guys both pure capitalism and socialism are bad" 💀💀
If you had to make a rap battle, as in, you decide who should battle, who would you pick?
ua-cam.com/play/PLLQNCzo4XdiXfdJcJEi8Fp0WThPucdeCA.html
Best reaction I've seen so far, although I'm surprised you skipped over the "take your bourgeois pigs pigs back to Animal Farm", the book where Orwell predicts the fall of the Soviet Union not from a violent revolution, but from the pigs in power going full circle back to a totalitarian capitalism.
I agree with you Ford won the battle, but it was not a slaughter. Ford called out Marx's hypocrisy, how he left his kids die before getting a job, and how his ideas caused much more damage than Ford ever could. I don't know how Marx thought being a drunk or pawing his pants was a flex, the Flint water was a false equivalence, saying his mother died in childbirth of a sibling is not at all Ford's fault. At some point the attacks of dirty hobo and Mustache Man sympathizer became repetitive on both sides, but I felt a slight edge on disses and flow toward Ford.
Lol seething liberal
Even if Karl’s rebuttals didn’t work in his favors, I did like the fact that they seemed authentic to his character, like if you actually asked him he would probably use similar points to those to refute the disses. Anyhow great reaction and nice breakdown!
Marxism, socialism and communism are not the same thing and should not be used interchangeably, even though they're related.
I don't subscribe to any of those ideologies, even if there are useful bits and pieces to be extracted from them.
But using them without distinction is kind of like saying that everyone on the Right is a Nazi or slavetrader or murderous religious fanatic.
It's simply not true.
I'm on neither on the Right or the Left, as I think it's obvious that they both failed humanity quite miserably and have very little to offer.
As for capitalism and communism, they're ultimately the same and in their pure form would spell doom and extinction for humanity.
Ah yes, I'm beginning to remember why I don't watch this guy anymore.
Omg I’m so glad I found your channel again😁
👋
-Marxism is a systemic and existential position in relation to society. How will we reproduce ourselves in our current conditions?
-Class war, for marx, being the law of history, of being the norm, is an acknowledgement of the antagonism of people existing in social relations. Marx, similar to hegel here, is incredibly pessimist. Yes, class war is forever.
-Yes, people are jealous. Marx wouldnt deny that.
-marxs work is symptomatic and laid the work for freud and theories of ideology/modern psych.
-Marxist thought preserved minimum wages, pension plans, and social security. Marxism is simply about how to come to terms with capitalism, it is a kind of social relation to capitalism as a process.
- capitalism no longer exists. Merger theory.
Actually, capitalism accounted for the whole "people are selfish pricks that would stomp over your head to get a 1 dollar raise" concept.. I mean, its the concept this system was builded on. Capitalism embraces this and thrives because of it. That's why is probably the only system that will ever "kinda work" (for the people that is supposed to work for at least), and comunism is a nice idea that could work in a society completly different from ours. The "best" we could achieve is some sort of "mild capitalism" that now and then throws us a bone so we can pay our rent and be able to watch Netflix and thinking we have true freedom. Something like "im gonna choke you, but not to kill you, just enought so you're a little afraid but also some part of you actually enjoys it"
Well stated, and creative analogy.
Lol capitalism is exactly what fueled this concept and individualistic behavior. Capitalism is a fart in the wind compared to all of Human history but you libs think it represents human nature.
I think you need to learn a bit more of the subject before you go spouting off very biased opinions(and then state them like facts).
this battle rap needs to include Benjamin Hertzel, who funded Zionism's ideology. before Israel was established in 1967 as a capitalist country, Zionism was supposed to be a bridge between communism and capitalism, Jews around the world helped in these ideologies, enough support to convince countries to bring the land to this community, which meant, Jews in the west will help the countries with the capitalism, while Jews in the east will help to the communists' countries, but more and more propagandas come on the Jews people and the nazism ideology change the game completely, and the true goal of the zionists is today a total mystery to find out.
What I like about these closer battles is that you can have differing opinions on them because both have good hits. Personally, I think Marx won simply because Ford for some reason just kept on with the same disses. Not saying Marx didn't either, but not to such a great extent as Ford. I think he used the dirty joke what... like four or five times? Like that last bar about the soap box just falls flat because he already used it WAY too many times, and because he used it so much, it weakened the bunch.
I would say thag the good socialism and communism brings is the idea of social safety nets. Like capitalism and the pursuit of profit does not incentive productive work.
So company would see various social safely nets as expesnes that can be cut or ignored for the sake of profits.
As a left leaning person. The appeal of socialism and communism is simply due to the unchecked power of capitalism and suffering under a capitalist system. Like wages and dealing with complex issues between rich and poor.
Lastly, Marx isnt directly responsible for the communist woes. He had ideas, other ppl took those idea and tried to implement them for their own devices. There an air of seperation for marx whereas ford had a direct relation to facism and hitler.
🎭 they're back baybeee
Your political analysis is lacking but nice reaction ig bro
8:46 Completely free market capitalism does account for greed that's literally it's whole basis.. if there's no government there is no monopoly on violence and without a monopoly on violence you cannot force people to do as you wish. Natural monopolies do not exist you need a government in order to create a monopoly. Anarchism/free-market capitalism maximizes freedom and doesn't need any third party to moderate the whole system it functions how it's meant to on its own. If your system requires you to steal money for it to survive it is an immoral, evil, absolutely incoherent system that should never have been thought of let alone exist. Anarchism is the only just system as well as the only one that functions as it's meant to.
Thanks Skeem. You Rock! Also cause you wear a mask… couldn’t you just rerecord the scenes where the camera shutoff?
Where’s the fun in that?
@@WeSkeem you have a point... DAMN YOU SKEEM!
more of michigans woes are from conservative policies and conservatives hampering of more liberal policies. the reason detroit went bankrupt was because michigan has no land use regulations, meaning people just built further and further out to the point it couldn't support itself. The insurance thing too, it's kind of funny, the no fault law is great because we realized the insurance is going to pay for it all one way or another so instead of needing to sue anyone first you just get the payout. The reason it is still on the books is because one republican rep's family actually had to use it and saw what a great move it was, so he always voted against his party to keep it in law.
Did you see ERBs post about reactors that mentioned you?
I commented on it the first 7 seconds it was posted 🫡
@@WeSkeem nice!
Stateless actually references the part of communism ideology of Stateless society too.