All cancers are sick mitochondria. You used the word stealing; I would use the word sharing. The cancer cell is actually a survival cell that is trying to survive with sick mitochondria. Cancer cells become immortal because the sick mitochondria cannot initiate apoptosis. The cancer cell needs to have healthy mitochondria so it can die or mature into an adult functioning cell. Mitochondria in the healthy cell will replicate quickly and replenish the metabolic activity in the donor cell. As you point out the donor cell packages the mitochondria to be shared with the deficient cancer cell. If you gift wrap a present and give it to a friend, that is gift-giving not stealing! Yes, cancer is sick metabolism.
It’s important to distinguish cancer initiation from cancer treatment. I dislike how these are always conflated. Once initiated, cancer is a metabolic war between the cancer cells and the immune system. The law of conservation of energy must be preserved. This war also has genetic factors, as it should. The answer is it’s both genetic and metabolic. With that being said, the metabolic aspects have been largely ignored in cancer treatment and that is heartbreaking. Keto and fasting will improve cancer patients lives for most cancers. Can keto cure cancer alone? Probably not unless your cancer is highly detectable by your immune system (msi-h status), or you suddenly made changes to strengthen your immune system response. We know that keto is ineffective if T cells are depleted. Read “Ketogenic diet and ketone bodies enhance the anticancer effects of PD-1 blockade” as it has some very interesting findings. In particular, intermittent ketone bodies are more effective than continuous ketone bodies. This would help explain why intermittent fasting seems to be more effective than continuous keto. Gustave Roussy is doing human clinical clinical trials that are well designed based on the above paper. Unfortunately the medical establishment in the USA is more resistant to change, likely due to the large amount of consulting fees paid by drug companies to doctors. France and Japan are leading the way. I was diagnosed with too large to operate cancer last year. I achieved NED from immunotherapy, intermittent ketosis, plus 20 different repurposed things based on pubmed research. I can’t elaborate further or this comment will get deleted or shadow banned by UA-cam.
I'm looking forward to your metabolic disease video - been looking into that as a layman for 11 years. I had 3 oncologists deny the Warburg effect, and that insulin is anabolic, and had questionable things to say about cancer growth being anaerobic. One thought Lew Cantley (PI 3-kinase) was a chiro with a website... he's a leading researcher in HER field.
Wow 😲 having had breast Cancer 15 years ago when I was 50 I guess those cancer cells were having a heyday with my mitochondria !! How incredibly interesting !! Thank you for your research have a beautiful day 😊
The Cell needs more Mitochondria to Fix itself. Warburg effect: Mitochondrial dysfunction and death, triggers aerobic glycolysis, leading to DNA damage, and Cancer. The cell needs more Mitochondria, so it's taking them from immune cells, which are mobile and expendable.
^^^THIS^^^ I came here to say the same thing. The cancer cells are not stealing mitochondria to “avoid detection”. Cancer is a mitochondrial disease. They are stealing mitochondria to transform themselves into non-cancerous cells. If they become cancerous, the immune cell will refrain from killing them. Why is this not obvious? This is a win-win exchange. 1: The immune cells are still destroying the cancer. 2: And the cancer cell gets to keep living by destroying the cancer. Everybody wins. Except cancer. Watch this video: Channel: Low Carb Down Under Title: Cancer: A Metabolic Disease: Implications for Novel Therapies Speaker: Thomas Seyfried: Date: 2020-09-02
I love when you get excited about the mechanics of what's taking place, I do the same lol It's kinda weird how your videos always seem to match where I'm at in my journey. Just learned I have not one but 84 mutations in my mitochondrial DNA(90 counting the 6 haplotype indicators), including a low-grade slow-growth cancer that I've been spent my entire life masking and adapting to that should've killed me over a decade ago. This video is great & allows me to further understand why my immune system is cranked all the way up and how its helping keep me alive. I genuinely wish I had more to contribute each month, your understanding of the science helps validate my own and/or redirects me when I get stuck on something. Thank you.
I'm "under-educated." This, I believe, means I didn't go to college. In HS biology, i did manage to get an A one quarter. It was when we were looking into and learning about the cell. The rest of the year I got D's, maybe a C. I hated school (long story). I didn't find out that I was intelligent until my early 40's, when being anylized for ADHD... my IQ, 140...Now what? Anyway... I love your channel, am fascinated with healthy aging... and even though you go way over my head, I hang in there... because I want to learn, even in geezerdom... because I've too much to do... and need to live 20 or 30 more years to get it done... I've lost a lot of friends and peers... the first to go were the obese males, next, the heavy partyiers, now, cancer is picking them off one by one... Some need canes, crutches, walkers, to get around... inspiring me to get my ass in the gym, and eat real food.... avoid crap. I found this video fascinating...
Thanks for covering this one Nick! I actually corresponded with Bo Li, the lead researcher there at UPENN. So far they are struggling to find targets for GTPase inhibs and other compounds (like L-778123) that might inhibit the assembly of the intercellular nanotubes. So far they are still searching for better targets, and so treatment effects have been mild at best. HOWEVER, while this process likely occurs beyond immune cells, he seemed to really think there is merit to a potential 'trojan horse' concept that i suggested. That is, if we could selectively compromise the mitochondria in these T-cells (to whom the cancer cells seem to have a particular affinity), it may present a novel treatment. The idea being that when these cells are 'hijacked', instead of supporting the cancer cell, they send the signal to 'self destruct' via cytochrome c or other similar apoptotic pathways! One way or another, i think this research potentially holds the key to more effective cancer treatments in the future. Very exciting!!
Physionic is by far the best content creator I have been given the chance to discover on youtube. I can't believe the consistency and accuracy in terms medical of researches that are made behind each of his videos. Needless to say health and aging should be the N1 priority for anyone who take a step back and see the big picture. I am actualy attempting to reduce my aging as I believe that we will be able to reach immortality by the end of the century, either through cloned body part transplants, stem cells generators or Brain machine interface where the composition of the brain synapase and neurones are tranfered to a 100% digital copy of the brain in a cloud to re-upload ourselves etc... Thank you souch for your work! Alexandre Dumas
Here's a thought: During the fasted state mitochondria fuse - creating larger mitochondria - might the increased mitochondrial mass make them harder to steal and so yield another potential benefit of fasting in combatting cancer?
Hey King, I've come across numerous medical books that precede the era of petro-pharmacy. Interestingly, authors often allocated at least one-third of their books to discussing parasites. Please make a video on this topic. I'm eager to hear your insights on the dangers of worm infestation.
Can you please make a video on Cytomegalovirus (CMV) and what can be done to restrict it to cause any diseases in immunocompetent people? Although, I've done my extensive research on it but would love to know your take on the same. Please also talk about recent CMV vaccine developments and is the vaccine useful in already CMV seropositive patients? CMV is a wide spread incurable infection which majority of people aren't even aware about. Your video on this entire thing would be really really helpful.
Totally agree, and also Epstein Barr, the "silent pandemic" that 90% of us have, and causes at least 7 autoimmune conditions and 200,000 cancers per year!
Reminds me of something I saw recently showing immune cells donating mitochondria to cells around the body. Perhaps that process is what was hijacked here, with the cancer not releasing the immune cells after donation. Also seems like an explanation for how cancer metastasizes.
Have you read Jane McClelland's book 'How to Starve Cancer'? She looks at multiple pathways, I think a more diverse approach than Prof. Seyfried's. Thanks for this introducing us to this amazing mitochondria stealing phenomenon.
An evolutionary echo of the event which gave rise to the eukaryotic cell, whereby mitochondria ( originally free living bacteria) were engulfed by a cell type lacking oxidative phosphorylation ?
Very interesting work. How does this work relate to the theory of Cancer as a metabolic disease. This theory argues that the origin of cancer is a problem in the mitochondria. This work shows that there is an important role in the exchange of mitochondria between a cancer cell and T cells. Does this result reinforce this theory? There is also the hypothesis that macrophyte hybridization plays a role in the formation of metastases. Could this be related? Thanks for the video. Keep up the excellent work.
The standard answer in chemistry as to why do certain reactions happen is, to lower the free energy of the system. Perhaps the question should be , what is the delta energy released from the mitochondria movement?
Yah, but don't we need to figure into the equation, the light environments, and how they are so different to how we were evolutionarily adapted to to thrive in outdoors?
Cancer cells are less reliant on mitochondria which are essentially broken, they're dependent upon glycolysis in the cytoplasm. (Dr Thomas Seyfried) The broken cancer cells are asking the immune cells for energy and the immune cells respond by sending mobile power generators.
I heard cancer cells have crap mitochondria that can only use glucose or glutamine, and then only in a very ineficient way. Getting some decent mitochondria would be HUGE advantage to it.
@@carlloeber Most people misinterpret and extrapolate data that isn't there. Pancreatic tumour cells can also use Uridine which is not a glucose molecule.
I'm not sure that stands up. Were a person a ketovore over long period would it not be the case that their cancer cells' mitochondria work with ketones too; then switching back to a glicose based diet would screw with their metabolism. I wonder if the mitochidria theft would would help the cancer adopt to the hosts current diet changes.
I think there are 4 situations where this mechanism could work in non cancerous cells: 1. Fast growing and dividing cells can grow faster when they don't have to grow all the mitochondria they need. (wound healing, embryo genesis, immune system cells and ??) 2. Cells with defective mitochondria are donated healthy mitochondria. 3. Cells with a shortage of energy can be saved from dying. 4. Cells that have to die can donate the mitochondria to other cells before dying (skin cells, cells in the gut, red blood cells).
You teach me so much, thanks!😊 This is amazing is this a new discovery? Looks like I get to watch & learn more. 🎉( party on lol) Look everyone I'm a nerd too!
@@Physionic Thanks. I can't copy and paste the study into a browser it so this helps. Amazing to see it's stealing from t cells of which there are many types. In this case, I'm wondering about the more the merrier of T cells and if this cell Is a recent mutant. I assume the substrate was neutral but that's another question.
If I supercharge mitochondria energy through use of Methylene Blue(MB), increasing the chemical energy potential, will that strengthen the cancer cell when it steals the mitochondria ?? OR will higher mitochondrial energy attack the cancer cell from the inside? Just curious, as I have not seen any effect of MB on my CRC but have perceived benefit from a stack of green based supplements. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated !!
Maybe? the immune cells are Trojan tricking the C cell? Is there glucose sweetness also transiting the nanotube into the C cell? Voracious demand for glucose/glutamine, may cause C cell vulnerability that mitochondrial transport could increase ROS enough to help attack the C cell. Maybe that glucose addiction is quite an addiction encouraging immune donation to sneak in the little ROS factories?
Maybe the NIR irradiation of immune cells, from sunlight outdoors, overcomes the mitochondrial suboptimal melatonin levels (from the NIR starvation of LED light and prolonged disruption of darkness) in the indoor lifestyles so common now? So, super-charged structured water 'batteries' in the immune cells could be able to really increase the ROS production to possibly disadvantage the C cell?
The first thing that popped in my mind: Are these nanotubes used in normal cells and for what? Otherwise how would the cancer cells able to utilize them?
❤ SOOO.. does this mean that if we have supercharged mitacondria through Infrared therapy which, if I understand correctly, increases melatonin in the mitacondria, boosting it's antioxidant potential, that if consumed by the cancer cell could begin to attack the cancer cell from the inside? Just curious, a question to possibly consider as an experiment.
I am hoping such! Been doing red light therapy for several mo the plus bought my own home unit. It does other things, primarily at the mitichondrial level.
@@whitewolf6730 Does the complexity of wavelengths of NIR, beyond the more narrow selection via using only narrow bands in LEDs, from using daylight perform better? And, sunlight sourcing NIR wide bands, may be providing other important benefits like D3, plus it's active metabolites too? That all could be important in affecting the tumor environment? Perhaps we err in being so afraid of sunshine, and thus eliminate multiple benefits? Maybe our hubris oversimplifies too much in just using manufactured LED light for the NIR narrow band? It might be very good, but not as good as sun exposure?
Maybe the NIR starvation we induce when we live much of our lives indoors w/o daylight, creates an over-simplified environment in which narrow sky blue wavelengths of LEDs 'white light' becomes so toxic that it enables the tumor environments in the first place, or tends toward pathogenesis in multiple ways? I may indeed want to purchase expensive red light panels, but I'm betting that sunlight exposure w/o burning, especially sitting under a shade tree very frequently might be a better exposure regime.... and even free?
And, if melatonin does really have a half life of 20 to 30 minutes, it might suggest that being outside in daylight might do a far better job at keeping mitochondria 'topped off' better that indoors with only very intermittent applications of light from red LEDs?
Mind boggling. What'll they think of next? If the cancer cells can do this with the nanotubes, doesn't that imply that our cells already have this capability inherent in our genes, and the cancerous cell has found a way to turn on this capability? Otherwise, where is this capability coming from?
Stealing mitochondria may help cancer cells to initiate reverse Krebs cycle to produce more intermediates that can promote carcinogenesis…any thoughts on this?
I'm more inclined to think that the stealing of mitochondria is a benefit because your body might assume that the cancer should not be attacked because it has healthy mitochondria, which it stole. It's like.me.stealing the uniform of the other army so that I can sneak around
Mitochondria can be involved in apoptosis. What do you think about the idea that the immune cells "inject" the mitos into the tumor cells, trying to induce apoptosis?
@@volkervolltrottel8429 Suboptimal functioning mitochondria, degrading in the tumor, may signal o/s the tumor for assistance to attract immune response?
It's always a battle of biochemical 'wits' between the two cells. Immune cells have devastating weapons at their disposal and cancer cells have tricky ways of being elusive. Sometimes immune cells win, sometimes cancer wins.
@Physionic is it possible that cancer cells steal mitochondria to try and "masquerade" as a "normal healthy cell" and evade the immune system? Like stealing the uniform from the other army so that you can sneak?
Wow Nick, this is crazy/fascinating stuff. Thanks for sharing this info. Like a bad episode of Star Trek. This raises so many questions. Does this school yard theft by cancer accelerate cancer production or by taking on a healthy mitochondria does this somehow lead to cancer turning to a healthy version? My wife has advanced stage 4 metastatic breast cancer. It even took a tour of her brain. Now some 6+ months later employing the fast mimicking diet with high dose melatonin, particular attention to diet/gut health and an immune check point inhibitor she is currently cancer free according to CT/PET and the Signatera genetic marker test. Oncologist and radiologist are baffled by the result. I wonder if we would see the same hijacking in a fasted state? And if not, why not? Some evidence fasting can erode the cancer defense mechanism. -The Stapler
Sorry if it’s a stupid question , but does this means. : If there were less mitochondria….. is it possible for cancer NOT be able to spread as easily as it can’t “ jump“ ?
Can you please share the reference you made to where they transplanted the nucleus from a cancer cell to a healthy cell and it did not cause cancer however, when they transplanted the mitochondria, it did cause cancer thank you
theoretically would there be a way to reverse the process? as in perhaps the cancer cell could be reprogramed to give out T-cells with mitochondria to fight the cancer ultimately nullifying itself?
is this unique to cancer cells or is this a new cell behavior that was previously undiscovered. Since the immune cells are the ones that create the nanotubes is this mitochondria replenishing behavior happening with normal cells whose mitochondria have been damaged.
A 'normal' immune function mechanism at work toward sneaking in more ROS ability to attack the C? Lured in by what, perhaps a glucose hit delivered by the nanotube?
You've previously discussed how mitochondria can adapt to become more or less efficient (by getting longer or shorter), and that the longer, more efficient condition can be a result of fasting/exercise/nutrient deprivation. I'm curious if these less efficient mitochondria are less likely to travel down these nanotubes?
Please correct the errors in my thinking. 1. Cancer thrives on glucose as its energy source 2. Mitochondria thrive when glucose is its energy source 3. Cancer can deprive the cell of glucose starving mitochondria leading to cancer devouring the cell and growing? 4. The two organs in the body that do not seem to suffer from cancers are the heart and brain 5. These two organs use ketones for energy. Mitochondria can use ketones through gluconeogenisis and also lipid synthesis. It seems that cancer is a mitochondrial battle that it often wins due to the available blood sugar. It has the ability to outcompete mitochondria. Mitochondria appear to be a species that the human Co opted or that co opted us way back in evolution. Cancer cannot metabolise ketones or lipids? Rather than trying to poison the cancer through chemotherapy which also poisons our cells, we should deprive the cancer of its fuel by going totally ketogenic in our diets for however long this would take to starve the cancer cells and allow our immune system the time to deal with the tumours. Unfortunately nobody will fund this study as it may appear to be unethical to convince sufferers to forego traditional treatment and dietary control removes the pharma control and profits to be made. Although my analysis may be incorrect and my understanding may have flaws?
A few inaccuracies in your post. For 2, mitochondria don't directly use glucose as an energy source. They only use acetyl-CoA, which can come either from pyruvate, or from fatty acids or ketone bodies. They also can't do gluconeogenesis. Brains do get cancers, although mostly gliomas affecting the glial cells, rather than the neurons. Brains also use more glucose than any other part of the body. They can adapt to use ketone bodies for some energy, but only red blood cells are more dependent on glucose than neurons. Arguably, cancer cells are even more glucose-dependent once they switch to aerobic glycolysis, so the idea of starving them of glucose through dietary changes, has some logic to it.
Cancer cells adapt to ketogenic diets. I have stage four cancer and I know loads of people who do keto, some forgoing treatment all together. I have one friend who died of testicular cancer after trying keto instead and a friend who ended up paralyzed after trying keto instead of chemo…the tumors in her spine ended up pressing on her spinal column. She’s on a CDK4 inhibitor and anastrozole now and is doing well after a year of treatment. Oncologists see patients all the time who tried diet instead of conventional treatment and come in after it’s too late. It’s an extremely common occurrence actually. My dad is an oncologist and had many, many patients in that situation. That being said, if a person with advanced cancer would rather do a diet than chemo, no one would stop them. They could die while dieting, or die in the medical system. It’s up to them. For people with early stage cancers, however, surgery and chemo are often very curative, especially for breast and colon cancer.
I wonder whether this is cancer and immune cell specific or a more general phenomena. Maybe cancer cells are also stealing mitochondria from each other in sort of competition for aerobic energy
Is this a new finding? Also the term "cancer" refers to a wide range of cancers, is this all cancer that does this? I wonder how this will change the approach to anti-cancer treatment?
Really interesting paper, which I hadn’t seen and excellent presentation. I don’t know if the below counts as what you would define as a critique, if you feel it does please delete the comment I will in no way be offended! Other aspects to consider. Mitochondrial rDNA genes contain open reading frames that encode ‘mitochondrial peptides’ (MDPs) e.g. Humanim. MDPs have intriguing in metabolism and cell growth and potential anti-programmed cell death mechanisms. Hence ‘stealing’ mitochondria could be beneficial. On the converse, mitochondria are essential for Apoptosis as the cytochrome C they ‘release’ after pro-apoptosis factors ‘punch holes’ in their membranes, is required to form CASP9 ‘wheel of death’ complex. Therefore mitochondria must be preserved intact unless apoptosis is either inhibited or fully deactivated, in in vivo cancers. It might be the nanotubes are stealing the mitochondria or the immune cells donating them.
Individual Cells seem to do conscience actions. Combine these actions with the actions of all the various Protein Motors inside Cells .... and it begs the question = HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE ???.
Not so much consciousness but rather what we would consider instinct, it is a self-preservation function of the body gone haywire. Much like how the immune system would invoke a Cytokine Storm to destroy healthy tissue that is around the infected area (Ebola/Filoviridae) to prevent further infection.
So at this point immunotherapy may do more good than harm to the cancer, but we know that some people (15-20% cure rate) have been cured by it. So why is it?
Some people are “super responders” I have stage four breast cancer and have met several patients who have survived for over a decade. Some women die within a few months of diagnosis. No one really knows why, even when controlling for various mutations. So, you can have two women, with the exact same type of breast cancer, on the same treatment and one may live for years, the other might die within months.
Question: cancer cells can be targeted with fasting and vitamin C cuz their mitochondrias are voracious. So, basically now we know that they are also composed of normal mitochondrias? or these will become cancerous as well? I think this is extremely important as voracious mitochondrias are what distinguish cancer cells from normal. If motherfuckers steal normal mito as well it can be a problem. Hope they will find an answer soon
We could super=charge to immune mitochondria with NIR, put them in proximity to the C microenvironment, and then 'trojan horse' the C with much higher ROS?
We humans possess similar genes for regeneration like Axolotls and other life that have it. Those genes however are either junk DNA at this point. When a lifeform that has those active genes sustains and injury such as a lost limb, the cells around the wound site revert back to their embryonic state to reconstruct what is lost over a few weeks. Zebrafish and Axolotls are most known for this regenerative ability.
Wow. Awesome Mitochondrial DNA not from our own DNA. Possibly introduced during Evolution became symbiotic in our body .. I recall reading . Ps recent treatment for brain cancer using inactivated Polio virus into tumor has cured people. Was on major news last year. Perhaps do a show on that. May help someone. שלום Excellent channel 👍
I swear to me that word was just recently invented because I never heard that bizarre word never my whole entire life until 2023 and I've been watching health videos for more than 10 now
![How Much do these 5 Health Habits Extend your Life? [Study 247]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nA9l3mIhmz4/mqdefault.jpg)
![How Much do these 5 Health Habits Extend your Life? [Study 247]](/img/tr.png)
Is cancer a metabolic disease? - find out here: ua-cam.com/video/lrjhoMHw3g0/v-deo.html
No Amendments, currently.
All cancers are sick mitochondria. You used the word stealing; I would use the word sharing. The cancer cell is actually a survival cell that is trying to survive with sick mitochondria. Cancer cells become immortal because the sick mitochondria cannot initiate apoptosis. The cancer cell needs to have healthy mitochondria so it can die or mature into an adult functioning cell. Mitochondria in the healthy cell will replicate quickly and replenish the metabolic activity in the donor cell. As you point out the donor cell packages the mitochondria to be shared with the deficient cancer cell. If you gift wrap a present and give it to a friend, that is gift-giving not stealing!
Yes, cancer is sick metabolism.
It’s important to distinguish cancer initiation from cancer treatment. I dislike how these are always conflated.
Once initiated, cancer is a metabolic war between the cancer cells and the immune system. The law of conservation of energy must be preserved. This war also has genetic factors, as it should. The answer is it’s both genetic and metabolic.
With that being said, the metabolic aspects have been largely ignored in cancer treatment and that is heartbreaking.
Keto and fasting will improve cancer patients lives for most cancers. Can keto cure cancer alone? Probably not unless your cancer is highly detectable by your immune system (msi-h status), or you suddenly made changes to strengthen your immune system response.
We know that keto is ineffective if T cells are depleted.
Read “Ketogenic diet and ketone bodies enhance the anticancer effects of PD-1 blockade” as it has some very interesting findings.
In particular, intermittent ketone bodies are more effective than continuous ketone bodies. This would help explain why intermittent fasting seems to be more effective than continuous keto.
Gustave Roussy is doing human clinical clinical trials that are well designed based on the above paper.
Unfortunately the medical establishment in the USA is more resistant to change, likely due to the large amount of consulting fees paid by drug companies to doctors. France and Japan are leading the way.
I was diagnosed with too large to operate cancer last year. I achieved NED from immunotherapy, intermittent ketosis, plus 20 different repurposed things based on pubmed research. I can’t elaborate further or this comment will get deleted or shadow banned by UA-cam.
I'm looking forward to your metabolic disease video - been looking into that as a layman for 11 years.
I had 3 oncologists deny the Warburg effect, and that insulin is anabolic, and had questionable things to say about cancer growth being anaerobic. One thought Lew Cantley (PI 3-kinase) was a chiro with a website... he's a leading researcher in HER field.
Wow 😲 having had breast Cancer 15 years ago when I was 50 I guess those cancer cells were having a heyday with my mitochondria !! How incredibly interesting !! Thank you for your research have a beautiful day 😊
✨️💕👍
The Cell needs more Mitochondria to Fix itself. Warburg effect: Mitochondrial dysfunction and death, triggers aerobic glycolysis, leading to DNA damage, and Cancer. The cell needs more Mitochondria, so it's taking them from immune cells, which are mobile and expendable.
^^^THIS^^^
I came here to say the same thing.
The cancer cells are not stealing mitochondria to “avoid detection”.
Cancer is a mitochondrial disease.
They are stealing mitochondria to transform themselves into non-cancerous cells.
If they become cancerous, the immune cell will refrain from killing them.
Why is this not obvious?
This is a win-win exchange.
1: The immune cells are still destroying the cancer.
2: And the cancer cell gets to keep living by destroying the cancer.
Everybody wins.
Except cancer.
Watch this video:
Channel: Low Carb Down Under
Title: Cancer: A Metabolic Disease: Implications for Novel Therapies
Speaker: Thomas Seyfried:
Date: 2020-09-02
Bingo. Dr. Seyfried is out here really helping folks understand this. He helped me!
Sunlight boost mitochondria
@@vicguani2108nad+, b vitamins too
@@nickcarroll8565Nad?
This sheds new light on the famous (but neglected) theory of carcinogenesis by Otto Warburg from 1924.
Despite being 100 years ago it’s still novel now. He was way ahead of his time.
I love when you get excited about the mechanics of what's taking place, I do the same lol
It's kinda weird how your videos always seem to match where I'm at in my journey.
Just learned I have not one but 84 mutations in my mitochondrial DNA(90 counting the 6 haplotype indicators), including a low-grade slow-growth cancer that I've been spent my entire life masking and adapting to that should've killed me over a decade ago.
This video is great & allows me to further understand why my immune system is cranked all the way up and how its helping keep me alive.
I genuinely wish I had more to contribute each month, your understanding of the science helps validate my own and/or redirects me when I get stuck on something.
Thank you.
I'm "under-educated." This, I believe, means I didn't go to college.
In HS biology, i did manage to get an A one quarter. It was when we were looking into and learning about the cell. The rest of the year I got D's, maybe a C. I hated school (long story).
I didn't find out that I was intelligent until my early 40's, when being anylized for ADHD... my IQ, 140...Now what?
Anyway... I love your channel, am fascinated with healthy aging... and even though you go way over my head, I hang in there... because I want to learn, even in geezerdom... because I've too much to do... and need to live 20 or 30 more years to get it done...
I've lost a lot of friends and peers... the first to go were the obese males, next, the heavy partyiers, now, cancer is picking them off one by one...
Some need canes, crutches, walkers, to get around... inspiring me to get my ass in the gym, and eat real food.... avoid crap.
I found this video fascinating...
Great comment. I found it inspirational. Let’s study up! 🎉
Thanks for covering this one Nick! I actually corresponded with Bo Li, the lead researcher there at UPENN. So far they are struggling to find targets for GTPase inhibs and other compounds (like L-778123) that might inhibit the assembly of the intercellular nanotubes.
So far they are still searching for better targets, and so treatment effects have been mild at best.
HOWEVER, while this process likely occurs beyond immune cells, he seemed to really think there is merit to a potential 'trojan horse' concept that i suggested. That is, if we could selectively compromise the mitochondria in these T-cells (to whom the cancer cells seem to have a particular affinity), it may present a novel treatment. The idea being that when these cells are 'hijacked', instead of supporting the cancer cell, they send the signal to 'self destruct' via cytochrome c or other similar apoptotic pathways!
One way or another, i think this research potentially holds the key to more effective cancer treatments in the future. Very exciting!!
More knowledge means more hope
Thanks for providing a great channel
Physionic is by far the best content creator I have been given the chance to discover on youtube. I can't believe the consistency and accuracy in terms medical of researches that are made behind each of his videos. Needless to say health and aging should be the N1 priority for anyone who take a step back and see the big picture. I am actualy attempting to reduce my aging as I believe that we will be able to reach immortality by the end of the century, either through cloned body part transplants, stem cells generators or Brain machine interface where the composition of the brain synapase and neurones are tranfered to a 100% digital copy of the brain in a cloud to re-upload ourselves etc...
Thank you souch for your work!
Alexandre Dumas
Love your content! Great voice, tempo and pretty easy to follow(even if it’s adv. Stuff😅)
I would think both. Also it would fuel rapid division of the cancer cell.
prolonged fasting is one ennemy of cancer cells
Here's a thought: During the fasted state mitochondria fuse - creating larger mitochondria - might the increased mitochondrial mass make them harder to steal and so yield another potential benefit of fasting in combatting cancer?
Never heard that is a thing. That would be interesting and account for positive results from fasting.
Hey King,
I've come across numerous medical books that precede the era of petro-pharmacy. Interestingly, authors often allocated at least one-third of their books to discussing parasites. Please make a video on this topic. I'm eager to hear your insights on the dangers of worm infestation.
Brilliant! If this is nerdy, then I'm proud to be a nerd.
Love this channel 🎉
Can you please make a video on Cytomegalovirus (CMV) and what can be done to restrict it to cause any diseases in immunocompetent people?
Although, I've done my extensive research on it but would love to know your take on the same.
Please also talk about recent CMV vaccine developments and is the vaccine useful in already CMV seropositive patients?
CMV is a wide spread incurable infection which majority of people aren't even aware about. Your video on this entire thing would be really really helpful.
Totally agree, and also Epstein Barr, the "silent pandemic" that 90% of us have, and causes at least 7 autoimmune conditions and 200,000 cancers per year!
So would putting a patient on an immuno suppressant when they have cancer help minimize the cancer’s ability to spread?
Fascinating and terrifying. Thank you so much for sharing.
As a cancer researcher in metastasis, this is nuts!
Reminds me of something I saw recently showing immune cells donating mitochondria to cells around the body.
Perhaps that process is what was hijacked here, with the cancer not releasing the immune cells after donation.
Also seems like an explanation for how cancer metastasizes.
Perhaps?!
Have you read Jane McClelland's book 'How to Starve Cancer'? She looks at multiple pathways, I think a more diverse approach than Prof. Seyfried's. Thanks for this introducing us to this amazing mitochondria stealing phenomenon.
An evolutionary echo of the event which gave rise to the eukaryotic cell, whereby mitochondria ( originally free living bacteria) were engulfed by a cell type lacking oxidative phosphorylation ?
Thanks for education...❤❤🎉🎉 Appreciate it 👍..
Very interesting work. How does this work relate to the theory of Cancer as a metabolic disease. This theory argues that the origin of cancer is a problem in the mitochondria.
This work shows that there is an important role in the exchange of mitochondria between a cancer cell and T cells. Does this result reinforce this theory?
There is also the hypothesis that macrophyte hybridization plays a role in the formation of metastases. Could this be related? Thanks for the video. Keep up the excellent work.
Maybe thats why they r using T cells to target cancer cells .Car T cells therapy
The standard answer in chemistry as to why do certain reactions happen is, to lower the free energy of the system. Perhaps the question should be , what is the delta energy released from the mitochondria movement?
Yah, but don't we need to figure into the equation, the light environments, and how they are so different to how we were evolutionarily adapted to to thrive in outdoors?
@@raykinney9907 You got a point.
Cancer cells are less reliant on mitochondria which are essentially broken, they're dependent upon glycolysis in the cytoplasm. (Dr Thomas Seyfried) The broken cancer cells are asking the immune cells for energy and the immune cells respond by sending mobile power generators.
Why ARE the mitochondria in the C cells breaking? Does it have to do with light energy problems? Chicken or the egg?
it's like a life drain ability in games
I heard cancer cells have crap mitochondria that can only use glucose or glutamine, and then only in a very ineficient way. Getting some decent mitochondria would be HUGE advantage to it.
It's the effect discovered by Otto, Warburg and popularized after studies today by Dr Seyfried of Boston University
@@carlloeber So it is true yes?
Da @@robdixson196
@@carlloeber Most people misinterpret and extrapolate data that isn't there. Pancreatic tumour cells can also use Uridine which is not a glucose molecule.
I'm not sure that stands up. Were a person a ketovore over long period would it not be the case that their cancer cells' mitochondria work with ketones too; then switching back to a glicose based diet would screw with their metabolism. I wonder if the mitochidria theft would would help the cancer adopt to the hosts current diet changes.
This explains how Sabizabulin works by disrupting microtubules
I think there are 4 situations where this mechanism could work in non cancerous cells:
1. Fast growing and dividing cells can grow faster when they don't have to grow all the mitochondria they need. (wound healing, embryo genesis, immune system cells and ??)
2. Cells with defective mitochondria are donated healthy mitochondria.
3. Cells with a shortage of energy can be saved from dying.
4. Cells that have to die can donate the mitochondria to other cells before dying (skin cells, cells in the gut, red blood cells).
Mitochondria with survival on their 'minds'? Sinking ship?
Does PQQ help with cancer?
You teach me so much, thanks!😊 This is amazing is this a new discovery? Looks like I get to watch & learn more. 🎉( party on lol) Look everyone I'm a nerd too!
So how can this knowledge be used to fight cancer? That is the question.
lol.. Cancer is easily cured despite western media and medicine saying other wise..
Surgery and chemo are palliative care not cures..
Inhibitors
great content. What sort of chair are you sitting on? Is it good for your lower back?
I'm standing
What type of cancer cell is it? This is captured in vitro, not an in vivo from biopsy? Is all of that information in the study??
MB-231, breast
In vitro
Yea, it’s in the study
@@Physionic Thanks. I can't copy and paste the study into a browser it so this helps. Amazing to see it's stealing from t cells of which there are many types. In this case, I'm wondering about the more the merrier of T cells and if this cell Is a recent mutant. I assume the substrate was neutral but that's another question.
Why is easy, with some mitochondria from the immune cell the cancer is now seen as "friend."
HOW to stop this is the important part.
So would something like methylene blue that help mitochondria be beneficial to fight cancer?
If I supercharge mitochondria energy through use of Methylene Blue(MB), increasing the chemical energy potential, will that strengthen the cancer cell when it steals the mitochondria ??
OR
will higher mitochondrial energy attack the cancer cell from the inside?
Just curious, as I have not seen any effect of MB on my CRC but have perceived benefit from a stack of green based supplements. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated !!
Maybe? the immune cells are Trojan tricking the C cell? Is there glucose sweetness also transiting the nanotube into the C cell? Voracious demand for glucose/glutamine, may cause C cell vulnerability that mitochondrial transport could increase ROS enough to help attack the C cell. Maybe that glucose addiction is quite an addiction encouraging immune donation to sneak in the little ROS factories?
Maybe the NIR irradiation of immune cells, from sunlight outdoors, overcomes the mitochondrial suboptimal melatonin levels (from the NIR starvation of LED light and prolonged disruption of darkness) in the indoor lifestyles so common now? So, super-charged structured water 'batteries' in the immune cells could be able to really increase the ROS production to possibly disadvantage the C cell?
The first thing that popped in my mind: Are these nanotubes used in normal cells and for what? Otherwise how would the cancer cells able to utilize them?
❤ SOOO.. does this mean that if we have supercharged mitacondria through Infrared therapy which, if I understand correctly, increases melatonin in the mitacondria, boosting it's antioxidant potential, that if consumed by the cancer cell could begin to attack the cancer cell from the inside? Just curious, a question to possibly consider as an experiment.
I am hoping such! Been doing red light therapy for several mo the plus bought my own home unit. It does other things, primarily at the mitichondrial level.
Why such a hyppthesis? By logic RLT would actually empower cancer cell growth. Light doesn't discriminate where are which cells.
@@whitewolf6730 Does the complexity of wavelengths of NIR, beyond the more narrow selection via using only narrow bands in LEDs, from using daylight perform better? And, sunlight sourcing NIR wide bands, may be providing other important benefits like D3, plus it's active metabolites too? That all could be important in affecting the tumor environment? Perhaps we err in being so afraid of sunshine, and thus eliminate multiple benefits? Maybe our hubris oversimplifies too much in just using manufactured LED light for the NIR narrow band? It might be very good, but not as good as sun exposure?
Maybe the NIR starvation we induce when we live much of our lives indoors w/o daylight, creates an over-simplified environment in which narrow sky blue wavelengths of LEDs 'white light' becomes so toxic that it enables the tumor environments in the first place, or tends toward pathogenesis in multiple ways? I may indeed want to purchase expensive red light panels, but I'm betting that sunlight exposure w/o burning, especially sitting under a shade tree very frequently might be a better exposure regime.... and even free?
And, if melatonin does really have a half life of 20 to 30 minutes, it might suggest that being outside in daylight might do a far better job at keeping mitochondria 'topped off' better that indoors with only very intermittent applications of light from red LEDs?
"there is a tentacle" it always comes back to Cthulhu I swear 🤣
Mind boggling. What'll they think of next? If the cancer cells can do this with the nanotubes, doesn't that imply that our cells already have this capability inherent in our genes, and the cancerous cell has found a way to turn on this capability? Otherwise, where is this capability coming from?
That's how the cells engulfed mitochondria, which in ancient times was a separate organism altogether.
Do bigger mitochondria prevent to be stolen? Is that how fasting prevents cancer?
I wonder how this works for cancers of the immune system? Say like the leukemia’s.
opposite hold the same, that is cancerous white blood cells hijack other healthy cells mitochondria for energy to multiply
Stealing mitochondria may help cancer cells to initiate reverse Krebs cycle to produce more intermediates that can promote carcinogenesis…any thoughts on this?
I'm more inclined to think that the stealing of mitochondria is a benefit because your body might assume that the cancer should not be attacked because it has healthy mitochondria, which it stole.
It's like.me.stealing the uniform of the other army so that I can sneak around
Mitochondria can be involved in apoptosis. What do you think about the idea that the immune cells "inject" the mitos into the tumor cells, trying to induce apoptosis?
Or other types of cell death, e.g. by inducing oxidative stress...
Doesn't oxidative damage label the cancer cell for NK cell response?
@@volkervolltrottel8429That would be true if you assumed the cancer didn't have an enhanced DNA damage response or mutations in antioxidant genes
@@volkervolltrottel8429 Suboptimal functioning mitochondria, degrading in the tumor, may signal o/s the tumor for assistance to attract immune response?
Please make your volume higher, it's hard to hear you on max volume in open earphones near a city road.
its the criminal stealing the gun out of the police officer's holster
More like stealing the copper's heart while he's calling for backup
Non science person here. Why does the immune cell allow the nano tube to invade and suck out mitochondria?
It's always a battle of biochemical 'wits' between the two cells. Immune cells have devastating weapons at their disposal and cancer cells have tricky ways of being elusive. Sometimes immune cells win, sometimes cancer wins.
@@Physionic On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for both immune cells and cancer cells drops to zero.
@Physionic is it possible that cancer cells steal mitochondria to try and "masquerade" as a "normal healthy cell" and evade the immune system?
Like stealing the uniform from the other army so that you can sneak?
Wow Nick, this is crazy/fascinating stuff. Thanks for sharing this info. Like a bad episode of Star Trek. This raises so many questions. Does this school yard theft by cancer accelerate cancer production or by taking on a healthy mitochondria does this somehow lead to cancer turning to a healthy version? My wife has advanced stage 4 metastatic breast cancer. It even took a tour of her brain. Now some 6+ months later employing the fast mimicking diet with high dose melatonin, particular attention to diet/gut health and an immune check point inhibitor she is currently cancer free according to CT/PET and the Signatera genetic marker test. Oncologist and radiologist are baffled by the result. I wonder if we would see the same hijacking in a fasted state? And if not, why not? Some evidence fasting can erode the cancer defense mechanism. -The Stapler
Does red light therapy help normal cells more than cancer cells?
Wow.. cancer is like a monster from a manga comic!
Sorry if it’s a stupid question , but does this means. : If there were less mitochondria….. is it possible for cancer NOT be able to spread as easily as it can’t “ jump“ ?
Can you please share the reference you made to where they transplanted the nucleus from a cancer cell to a healthy cell and it did not cause cancer however, when they transplanted the mitochondria, it did cause cancer thank you
theoretically would there be a way to reverse the process? as in perhaps the cancer cell could be reprogramed to give out T-cells with mitochondria to fight the cancer ultimately nullifying itself?
is this unique to cancer cells or is this a new cell behavior that was previously undiscovered. Since the immune cells are the ones that create the nanotubes is this mitochondria replenishing behavior happening with normal cells whose mitochondria have been damaged.
A 'normal' immune function mechanism at work toward sneaking in more ROS ability to attack the C? Lured in by what, perhaps a glucose hit delivered by the nanotube?
Amazing. Really REALLY liked this. Fascinating. Cancer is so damn evil.
If a cancer cell is doing it then the reason must be bad so it must be interrupted if possible.
Amazing and this could lead to new ways of destroying cancer cells.
Does this enable the cancer cells to be recognized as healthy 'self' cells?
Cancer cells still display CD47 (Do Not Eat) marker on their surface like healthy cells.
Cancer hijacks the powerhouse of the cell.
Is it that, or trojan horse mechanism of immune cell attempts toward increasing ROS to damage the C cell?
You've previously discussed how mitochondria can adapt to become more or less efficient (by getting longer or shorter), and that the longer, more efficient condition can be a result of fasting/exercise/nutrient deprivation. I'm curious if these less efficient mitochondria are less likely to travel down these nanotubes?
That's an excellent idea. I honestly don't know, but they would certainly need more motor units to allow them down this path. Fantastic thought.
Please correct the errors in my thinking. 1. Cancer thrives on glucose as its energy source 2. Mitochondria thrive when glucose is its energy source 3. Cancer can deprive the cell of glucose starving mitochondria leading to cancer devouring the cell and growing? 4. The two organs in the body that do not seem to suffer from cancers are the heart and brain 5. These two organs use ketones for energy. Mitochondria can use ketones through gluconeogenisis and also lipid synthesis. It seems that cancer is a mitochondrial battle that it often wins due to the available blood sugar. It has the ability to outcompete mitochondria. Mitochondria appear to be a species that the human Co opted or that co opted us way back in evolution. Cancer cannot metabolise ketones or lipids? Rather than trying to poison the cancer through chemotherapy which also poisons our cells, we should deprive the cancer of its fuel by going totally ketogenic in our diets for however long this would take to starve the cancer cells and allow our immune system the time to deal with the tumours. Unfortunately nobody will fund this study as it may appear to be unethical to convince sufferers to forego traditional treatment and dietary control removes the pharma control and profits to be made. Although my analysis may be incorrect and my understanding may have flaws?
A few inaccuracies in your post. For 2, mitochondria don't directly use glucose as an energy source. They only use acetyl-CoA, which can come either from pyruvate, or from fatty acids or ketone bodies. They also can't do gluconeogenesis.
Brains do get cancers, although mostly gliomas affecting the glial cells, rather than the neurons. Brains also use more glucose than any other part of the body. They can adapt to use ketone bodies for some energy, but only red blood cells are more dependent on glucose than neurons. Arguably, cancer cells are even more glucose-dependent once they switch to aerobic glycolysis, so the idea of starving them of glucose through dietary changes, has some logic to it.
Cancer cells adapt to ketogenic diets. I have stage four cancer and I know loads of people who do keto, some forgoing treatment all together. I have one friend who died of testicular cancer after trying keto instead and a friend who ended up paralyzed after trying keto instead of chemo…the tumors in her spine ended up pressing on her spinal column. She’s on a CDK4 inhibitor and anastrozole now and is doing well after a year of treatment.
Oncologists see patients all the time who tried diet instead of conventional treatment and come in after it’s too late. It’s an extremely common occurrence actually. My dad is an oncologist and had many, many patients in that situation.
That being said, if a person with advanced cancer would rather do a diet than chemo, no one would stop them. They could die while dieting, or die in the medical system. It’s up to them. For people with early stage cancers, however, surgery and chemo are often very curative, especially for breast and colon cancer.
The use of methilene blue could get worse or better this process?
I wonder whether this is cancer and immune cell specific or a more general phenomena. Maybe cancer cells are also stealing mitochondria from each other in sort of competition for aerobic energy
Wow..thats insane!😮
Well, cancer cells as vampire cells.
Can you make video about Peptides E4?
Is this a new finding? Also the term "cancer" refers to a wide range of cancers, is this all cancer that does this? I wonder how this will change the approach to anti-cancer treatment?
Not all cancers are the same, highly heterogeneous.
Really interesting paper, which I hadn’t seen and excellent presentation.
I don’t know if the below counts as what you would define as a critique, if you feel it does please delete the comment I will in no way be offended!
Other aspects to consider. Mitochondrial rDNA genes contain open reading frames that encode ‘mitochondrial peptides’ (MDPs) e.g. Humanim. MDPs have intriguing in metabolism and cell growth and potential anti-programmed cell death mechanisms. Hence ‘stealing’ mitochondria could be beneficial. On the converse, mitochondria are essential for Apoptosis as the cytochrome C they ‘release’ after pro-apoptosis factors ‘punch holes’ in their membranes, is required to form CASP9 ‘wheel of death’ complex. Therefore mitochondria must be preserved intact unless apoptosis is either inhibited or fully deactivated, in in vivo cancers.
It might be the nanotubes are stealing the mitochondria or the immune cells donating them.
Or maybe the immune cells are trying to cure tumor cells by donating their healthy mitochondria, which the tumor cells don't have.
You should do a collab video with Dr. Thomas Seyfried. You guys are on the same wavelength on this topic!👍🔬🧬
We are not :)
Sorry.. I take that back!
Phytosterol supplements can you clear up conflicting studies 😮
The great mitochondria bank robbery case
Reminds me of the Running Away Balloon meme
Does this mean that cancer is literally power-hungry?
This is a bit more joke than an open question.
Individual Cells seem to do conscience actions. Combine these actions with the actions of all the various Protein Motors inside Cells .... and it begs the question = HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE ???.
Not so much consciousness but rather what we would consider instinct, it is a self-preservation function of the body gone haywire. Much like how the immune system would invoke a Cytokine Storm to destroy healthy tissue that is around the infected area (Ebola/Filoviridae) to prevent further infection.
So at this point immunotherapy may do more good than harm to the cancer, but we know that some people (15-20% cure rate) have been cured by it. So why is it?
Some people are “super responders”
I have stage four breast cancer and have met several patients who have survived for over a decade. Some women die within a few months of diagnosis. No one really knows why, even when controlling for various mutations. So, you can have two women, with the exact same type of breast cancer, on the same treatment and one may live for years, the other might die within months.
Methylene Blue!
Question: cancer cells can be targeted with fasting and vitamin C cuz their mitochondrias are voracious. So, basically now we know that they are also composed of normal mitochondrias? or these will become cancerous as well? I think this is extremely important as voracious mitochondrias are what distinguish cancer cells from normal. If motherfuckers steal normal mito as well it can be a problem. Hope they will find an answer soon
The cancer cells are "defunding" the immune system. Does that remind you of something?
Ok boomer
Welcome toomer
The Mitochondria Wars have begun. #Yoda
Is that a spider behind you on your wall ?!?!?!?!?!?
No its his pet micochondria 😮
Fascinating? Yes. Alarming? Absolutely. Cool? Not so much.
Highjackers and Bushwhackers!
We are joining to see a lot more of this stealing in the future.
I don’t have a degree in biochemistry but it doesn’t take a genius to know that the Mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.
Those 'arms' remind me of fungal hyphae...
So they steal the batteries
Like virus?!
That's really jacked up....wth..
The cancer cells have damaged mitochondria thus desire replacement mitochondria wherever they can find them. lol
We could super=charge to immune mitochondria with NIR, put them in proximity to the C microenvironment, and then 'trojan horse' the C with much higher ROS?
WHY WOULD “Source” Creator, “God” make us soo defective ?!?!
We humans possess similar genes for regeneration like Axolotls and other life that have it. Those genes however are either junk DNA at this point. When a lifeform that has those active genes sustains and injury such as a lost limb, the cells around the wound site revert back to their embryonic state to reconstruct what is lost over a few weeks.
Zebrafish and Axolotls are most known for this regenerative ability.
To signal to us that by living indoor lifestyles, we are heading down mechanistic pathways that disadvantage us?!?!
It reminds me of UK stole diamond and other minerals from India and Africa countries.
Wow. Awesome
Mitochondrial DNA not from our own DNA.
Possibly introduced during Evolution became symbiotic in our body .. I recall reading .
Ps recent treatment for brain cancer using inactivated Polio virus into tumor has cured people.
Was on major news last year.
Perhaps do a show on that.
May help someone.
שלום
Excellent channel 👍
Zombie cells…
Grand Theft Mitochondria?
I swear to me that word was just recently invented because I never heard that bizarre word never my whole entire life until 2023 and I've been watching health videos for more than 10 now
Hello !
Hello!