I haven't done a lot of packing (some, but not a lot), but I've been raising goats for almost forty years. If you are going to have your goats for multiple purpose use, and not just for packing, my favorite is Oberhasli because they have good-flavored milk.
@@Jonathan-yr3so What the goats eat does affect the flavor of their milk, but if you had several goats of different breeds, all eating the same thing, you would still find some differences in milk flavor between the breeds. Nubians, for example, are known for their sweet, rich milk - and, yes, that is partially due to the higher milk-fat. At least some Toggenburgs were deliberately bred for strong-flavored milk, because they were used for making a special kind of cheese. In my experience, Alpines and Saanens have a little bit of that flavor in their milk. I couldn't detect any of it in the Oberhaslis that I've had. I've never had a LaMancha, but have been told their milk is also good. When my children were young, they wanted chocolate in the milk of the Alpines and the one Saanen that we had. They wouldn't drink Toggenburg milk even with chocolate, though I don't think all Toggs have as strong-flavored milk as the two we had. They had no problem drinking plain milk from our Nubians and Oberhasli. When you get into the smaller breeds, they all seem to have good, sweet milk, mostly due to higher butterfat. But because of their size, they aren't used much for packing. One other breed to consider, in crosses with a dairy breed, is Boer. You probably wouldn't want to milk a purebred Boer, but I had a Boer/Oberhasli cross - a huge doe, almost 200 lbs. - who peaked her production at nearly two gallons of milk per day; the flavor was excellent, and the butterfat was really high. So were the milk solids. The cheese yield per gallon of milk was about double the usual one pound. If you consider a Boer cross for packing and milking, make sure the udder and teats are good, because a lot of Boers still have double teats (can't be milked), or have other teat faults that you wouldn't want.
Interesting. Many years ago 30 plus my wife answered an ad for a “free” goat. Jasper the Goat ( instead of Casper the Ghost 😉). She brought him home in a station wagon with 3 of our own kids. 2 still in car seats. He would butt the front door of the house at night wanting in. Knock the kids down. The last straw for my wife was when Jasper knocked her down from behind. 😲😂 Jasper moved on to a goat farm very soon after. After watching you videos Mark I certainly know aLOT more about what was going on. Great videos. Makes me want to try it again but the right way this time. Thanks for the info and videos.
I can understand your bond with your goat. My goats are literally my family I love them so much I hate the day when one of them passes away. But they are beautiful beautiful animals! I am sorry you lost your Ruby! 🙏
Horn flare is what is called! My alpine is like that. Stupid question, can we shave it off? The horns are massive and he isn't that big. He is two years old.
I have a very serious question. Has anyone considered/tried using an Aoudad, as a pack sheep? I came across your channel by accident, and love it. I'm a multi-generational rancher (dorper/ramboleigh sheep crosses, spanish/boer goat crosses, cattle) in west Texas, and we have aoudad all over the place, and always in the absolutely most inhospitable locations. They're obviously extremely wild, but I'm betting a couple bottle fed lambs could be gentled down extremely well. In arid west Texas, they don't require water, are insanely nimble (I've seen them RUN up and down cliff faces), and have incredibly thick bone structure and musculature. Using your standard of 30% body weight, they could likely carry 80+ pounds. Plus they are obviously highly resistant to parasites. I trap, dart, and sell the bucks in my spare time, but always turn the ewes and lambs loose. Aside from traditional sheep being dumber than goats (don't know about aoudad though), is there a reason for someone to not try and gentle some aoudad lambs down, and train them? We can have this conversation offline, if preferred. -Dale
That and other wild species have been considered for quite a while. The only state they would be legal in is Texas as almost all states will not allow Wilde to stock animals on public land. So that would be the rub. Could be very possible for you but wouldn’t be for much of the rest of the states
@@PackGoatscom Thanks for the reply. Do you know where I can find additional information? Specifically, what criteria they use to make the distinction between "wild" and stock. A wild/domestic cross is something that is feasible for me to jack with, if it could be legal.
smitty334 It’s a State Batesd State qualification and most western states that Pat goat would be used in even small fractions of wild crosses are not allowed, or require lots and lots of testing and verification to be able to even bring them into the state
Hi Marc, the nice thing here in France and Switzerland is that we have a lot of local breeds that seem ideal for this, by themselves or in cross-breeding ; like the corsican or the poitevine. Have you had any experience with Valais Blacknecks ?They're rad looking breed of meat goat from switzerland, they seem to have all the plus' of other meat breeds without the cons : not as lumbering, slow nor too big. Very rustic as well and very amicable. Another question, do you recommend fleece producing goats like angoras or cashmire goats ?
We only have Nigerian Dwarfs and then one mini lamancha doe 😂 Then again, could be cool just for fun hiking trips. Considering teaching our two wethers so they can have a "job" on the farm beyond just pets and love. If nothing else, they can hike our land and go on short trips with us
Just found you today. I was wondering how are goats around loud noises, like firearms. I hunt with rifles generally but would be open to the Idea of raising some pack goats in the future if I find a house with enough space. I just wouldn't want to freak them out or make them mean and or terrified of people.
Great thoughts! Most discussion seems to center around conformation and traits that are best for colder temps and higher altitudes. (Understandable given the natural history and traits.) I live in the hot, humid, swampy Gulf South. Do you know of anyone using pack goats in or breeding for this area? Any hypotheses about breeds or crosses that might do well here? Also, can a pack goat be cross trained to be a cart goat? Or should you plan on a single discipline per animal?
Spanish has line that is adapted for swamp and is hoof rot resistant. Idk much about pack goating but this is known for meat farming goats. Lamancha is derivative of Spanish and Alpine created in south cali, so it should be hot tolerant. @packgoats.com I would like to know if you have seen any cross trained pack/cart goats.
Has anyone ever tried mixing in Ibex? I don't know if they're genetically compatible with domestic goats, but talk about a perfect goat for backcountry packing(?), in terms of agility, and strength. They might even carry on the survival instincts of their wild ancestors? The horns might be a problem, depending on how dominant that trait would express itself. I just found your channel, and the subject is something I've been intrigued by for years. I've grown up around livestock, and packed in with horses. I have had some serious spine surgeries, and carrying my pack is becoming problematic. I love to long distance hike though, and this seems like a great way to keep that a part of my life. I'd love to be able to section hike portions of the PCT again, and goats might make that realistic for me? I would appreciate any suggestions you might have. This subject is entirely new to me, aside from knowing folks do this. Good stuff. I'll continue through your video archive. Very interesting to me. Be well and best regards.
Yes, I have entertain that at length. The problem is they are illegal in most western states even to own. Even more illegal to bring on the public land. They also are incredibly inbred so very susceptible to disease and parasites. On top of that I believe it would be risky to see how bondable they would be as They are still mostly wild. So great idea, but one I would pass on.
packgoats.com can help you with every facet of getting into the sport from babies to equipment to training. Spend a little time there and feel free to reach out anytime if I can answer questions. Sounds like they would be a game changer for you
@@PackGoatscom thank you for replying Marc. It's encouraging that it wasn't an entirely dumb question to ask. Lol. An ibex hybrid seems like it would have been a good cross, but I see you've sussed it out as an unrealistic idea. Glad to find your channel. It's opened some new possibilities in my mind. Thank you.
I would love to get into pack goat breeding. I breed Sables (colored Saanen) for milking and show. I have a small herd and everyone is handled and trained to have manors. I prefer to get stock from national champions with high linear appraisals because conformation is important. My wethers are so gentle and hardy. It’s hard to find them “pet” homes since most around here want minis for pets and not these tall guys. I don’t have a problem if they become “meat” for a family either but they could be of better use as pack goats. Plus I’m on 5 acres of virgin forest way up in upper Michigan. My goats are born and raised in harsh terrain and brutal weather.
If only people could experience a nice "tall goat" they'd stop wanting miniature ones. My Nigerian Dwarf is an absolute terror, mannerless to people and a downright bully to goats. Thankfully he was st least taught not to head butt people in the 4 years before I got him, but he bullies his Nubian herdmate. The Nubian on the other hand is like a giant puppy, and I'd love to have a dozen like him... but first I need to get another butthead to keep the Nigerian company!
Gonna be raising Spanish, is it possible to pack goat them or too much trouble. Got two bucklings who will follow sometimes off lease for grain and have progress in taking on short hour long hikes. Trying to get dual purpose out of meat goats.
Would you consider a good goat as draft animal? Really thinking about getting a couple to pull a small cart on the parts of the property that’s too awkward for the tractor.
I just came across your Chanel and watched all your videos. Totally amazing! I am now seriously considering getting some goats so thanks. What goat breeds do you like for hardiness and parasite resistance? I know kikos are pretty hardy. What milk goats have you found to have these traits? Again thanks for the info.
Sounds like we need a selective breeding program, if its done carefully it may only take 10 generations to see a significant change and a new "breed" forming.
I have 7 Alpines! None are aggressive to me. The queen doe is stern to the others but they respect her and she can be extremely sweet at times.
I like the goat with the huge horns with his head is in the feeder behind you!!
I haven't done a lot of packing (some, but not a lot), but I've been raising goats for almost forty years. If you are going to have your goats for multiple purpose use, and not just for packing, my favorite is Oberhasli because they have good-flavored milk.
@@Jonathan-yr3so What the goats eat does affect the flavor of their milk, but if you had several goats of different breeds, all eating the same thing, you would still find some differences in milk flavor between the breeds. Nubians, for example, are known for their sweet, rich milk - and, yes, that is partially due to the higher milk-fat. At least some Toggenburgs were deliberately bred for strong-flavored milk, because they were used for making a special kind of cheese. In my experience, Alpines and Saanens have a little bit of that flavor in their milk. I couldn't detect any of it in the Oberhaslis that I've had. I've never had a LaMancha, but have been told their milk is also good. When my children were young, they wanted chocolate in the milk of the Alpines and the one Saanen that we had. They wouldn't drink Toggenburg milk even with chocolate, though I don't think all Toggs have as strong-flavored milk as the two we had. They had no problem drinking plain milk from our Nubians and Oberhasli. When you get into the smaller breeds, they all seem to have good, sweet milk, mostly due to higher butterfat. But because of their size, they aren't used much for packing. One other breed to consider, in crosses with a dairy breed, is Boer. You probably wouldn't want to milk a purebred Boer, but I had a Boer/Oberhasli cross - a huge doe, almost 200 lbs. - who peaked her production at nearly two gallons of milk per day; the flavor was excellent, and the butterfat was really high. So were the milk solids. The cheese yield per gallon of milk was about double the usual one pound. If you consider a Boer cross for packing and milking, make sure the udder and teats are good, because a lot of Boers still have double teats (can't be milked), or have other teat faults that you wouldn't want.
Love your videos! Lamancha ...Alpine...Ober....all the way!
Interesting. Many years ago 30 plus my wife answered an ad for a “free” goat. Jasper the Goat ( instead of Casper the Ghost 😉). She brought him home in a station wagon with 3 of our own kids. 2 still in car seats. He would butt the front door of the house at night wanting in. Knock the kids down. The last straw for my wife was when Jasper knocked her down from behind. 😲😂 Jasper moved on to a goat farm very soon after. After watching you videos Mark I certainly know aLOT more about what was going on. Great videos. Makes me want to try it again but the right way this time. Thanks for the info and videos.
Saanen Angora cross. Great disposition. Heat tolerant and athletic. Cold tolerant. Not too big.
With Kikos I would say that I love the worm ability in them as well as their feet.
So interesting. Thank you, Mark.
Newbie here,...thanks for the info as it has been extremely valuable.
Have you heard of the Damara goats indigenous to Southern Africa? You should do some research on this breed. Enjoy your channel
Super helpful and informative 👍🏻👍🏻👌👌
How would one go about moving goats across country? What sort of trailer would be sufficient for 4 goats? Speaking of trailers... Lol
We are starting with Lamancha/Nubian cross.
My BEST packgoat was a white LaMancha. God, I miss her!
I love you Ruby.😓🐐❤️ Rest In Peace.
Imho, LaManchas are amongst the best pack goats.
I can understand your bond with your goat. My goats are literally my family I love them so much I hate the day when one of them passes away. But they are beautiful beautiful animals! I am sorry you lost your Ruby! 🙏
@@vikingmountainranchlife7447 Thanks.🐐❤️🙏
Top
Hmm alpine is one of my favorites too. But how about kinko? I've heard good things about them.
I’m not a fan of Kiko too inconsistent, too fat, horizontal Horn configurations
Would LOVE it if you came you came up with your own breed!!!
Horn flare is what is called! My alpine is like that. Stupid question, can we shave it off? The horns are massive and he isn't that big. He is two years old.
A bit yes. Sawsall is the best tool. Usually about 4 inches doesn’t have blood flow inside.
I have a very serious question. Has anyone considered/tried using an Aoudad, as a pack sheep? I came across your channel by accident, and love it. I'm a multi-generational rancher (dorper/ramboleigh sheep crosses, spanish/boer goat crosses, cattle) in west Texas, and we have aoudad all over the place, and always in the absolutely most inhospitable locations. They're obviously extremely wild, but I'm betting a couple bottle fed lambs could be gentled down extremely well. In arid west Texas, they don't require water, are insanely nimble (I've seen them RUN up and down cliff faces), and have incredibly thick bone structure and musculature. Using your standard of 30% body weight, they could likely carry 80+ pounds. Plus they are obviously highly resistant to parasites. I trap, dart, and sell the bucks in my spare time, but always turn the ewes and lambs loose. Aside from traditional sheep being dumber than goats (don't know about aoudad though), is there a reason for someone to not try and gentle some aoudad lambs down, and train them? We can have this conversation offline, if preferred. -Dale
That and other wild species have been considered for quite a while. The only state they would be legal in is Texas as almost all states will not allow Wilde to stock animals on public land. So that would be the rub. Could be very possible for you but wouldn’t be for much of the rest of the states
@@PackGoatscom Thanks for the reply. Do you know where I can find additional information? Specifically, what criteria they use to make the distinction between "wild" and stock. A wild/domestic cross is something that is feasible for me to jack with, if it could be legal.
smitty334 It’s a State Batesd State qualification and most western states that Pat goat would be used in even small fractions of wild crosses are not allowed, or require lots and lots of testing and verification to be able to even bring them into the state
Hi Marc, the nice thing here in France and Switzerland is that we have a lot of local breeds that seem ideal for this, by themselves or in cross-breeding ; like the corsican or the poitevine.
Have you had any experience with Valais Blacknecks ?They're rad looking breed of meat goat from switzerland, they seem to have all the plus' of other meat breeds without the cons : not as lumbering, slow nor too big. Very rustic as well and very amicable.
Another question, do you recommend fleece producing goats like angoras or cashmire goats ?
I don’t have any experience with black necks
I don’t recommend fiber boats they will battle heat on the trail too much.
We only have Nigerian Dwarfs and then one mini lamancha doe 😂 Then again, could be cool just for fun hiking trips. Considering teaching our two wethers so they can have a "job" on the farm beyond just pets and love. If nothing else, they can hike our land and go on short trips with us
Sweet. This saddle will fit them. packgoats.com/affordable-pack-goat-saddle-and-panniers-for-4h-and-nigerians/
I have Alpine lamancha mix
Look up Cabra Verata from Extremadura Spain, endangered species only about 10,000 left
11k views on 11 min n 11 seconds *goat intensifies*
Just found you today. I was wondering how are goats around loud noises, like firearms. I hunt with rifles generally but would be open to the Idea of raising some pack goats in the future if I find a house with enough space. I just wouldn't want to freak them out or make them mean and or terrified of people.
I have no input but I’m commenting to see if this is answered. I’m curious as well.
@@ezntertainment3601 I still haven't seen anything on this subject. I'm still curious. It be cool to go on an adventure with a rifle and some goats
@@kuriboh635 or how epic would it be to have a goat as your range buddy lol
@@ezntertainment3601 I like your style. A Goat ammo bearer, would be great.
@@kuriboh635 haha exactly! I need to get me a couple
Great thoughts! Most discussion seems to center around conformation and traits that are best for colder temps and higher altitudes. (Understandable given the natural history and traits.) I live in the hot, humid, swampy Gulf South. Do you know of anyone using pack goats in or breeding for this area? Any hypotheses about breeds or crosses that might do well here?
Also, can a pack goat be cross trained to be a cart goat? Or should you plan on a single discipline per animal?
Spanish has line that is adapted for swamp and is hoof rot resistant. Idk much about pack goating but this is known for meat farming goats. Lamancha is derivative of Spanish and Alpine created in south cali, so it should be hot tolerant.
@packgoats.com I would like to know if you have seen any cross trained pack/cart goats.
Has anyone ever tried mixing in Ibex? I don't know if they're genetically compatible with domestic goats, but talk about a perfect goat for backcountry packing(?), in terms of agility, and strength. They might even carry on the survival instincts of their wild ancestors? The horns might be a problem, depending on how dominant that trait would express itself.
I just found your channel, and the subject is something I've been intrigued by for years. I've grown up around livestock, and packed in with horses.
I have had some serious spine surgeries, and carrying my pack is becoming problematic. I love to long distance hike though, and this seems like a great way to keep that a part of my life. I'd love to be able to section hike portions of the PCT again, and goats might make that realistic for me? I would appreciate any suggestions you might have. This subject is entirely new to me, aside from knowing folks do this. Good stuff. I'll continue through your video archive. Very interesting to me. Be well and best regards.
Yes, I have entertain that at length. The problem is they are illegal in most western states even to own. Even more illegal to bring on the public land. They also are incredibly inbred so very susceptible to disease and parasites. On top of that I believe it would be risky to see how bondable they would be as They are still mostly wild. So great idea, but one I would pass on.
packgoats.com can help you with every facet of getting into the sport from babies to equipment to training. Spend a little time there and feel free to reach out anytime if I can answer questions. Sounds like they would be a game changer for you
@@PackGoatscom thank you for replying Marc. It's encouraging that it wasn't an entirely dumb question to ask. Lol. An ibex hybrid seems like it would have been a good cross, but I see you've sussed it out as an unrealistic idea. Glad to find your channel. It's opened some new possibilities in my mind. Thank you.
What about anglo nubians
What kind of hay do you feed your pack hoats?
Hi what do you think of pygmys
I would love to get into pack goat breeding. I breed Sables (colored Saanen) for milking and show. I have a small herd and everyone is handled and trained to have manors. I prefer to get stock from national champions with high linear appraisals because conformation is important. My wethers are so gentle and hardy. It’s hard to find them “pet” homes since most around here want minis for pets and not these tall guys. I don’t have a problem if they become “meat” for a family either but they could be of better use as pack goats. Plus I’m on 5 acres of virgin forest way up in upper Michigan. My goats are born and raised in harsh terrain and brutal weather.
Great to know!
If only people could experience a nice "tall goat" they'd stop wanting miniature ones. My Nigerian Dwarf is an absolute terror, mannerless to people and a downright bully to goats. Thankfully he was st least taught not to head butt people in the 4 years before I got him, but he bullies his Nubian herdmate. The Nubian on the other hand is like a giant puppy, and I'd love to have a dozen like him... but first I need to get another butthead to keep the Nigerian company!
Do sables have any difference to saanens except the colour?
@@lucyxodonoghue they are pretty much the same besides the color. Even two full saanens can have colored kids which are then registered as sables.
@@NorthlandSLC thanks!
Gonna be raising Spanish, is it possible to pack goat them or too much trouble. Got two bucklings who will follow sometimes off lease for grain and have progress in taking on short hour long hikes. Trying to get dual purpose out of meat goats.
I think any bonded goat can make a good packer, you just need the proper fundamentals and then all the rest is just degrees of success
Would you consider a good goat as draft animal? Really thinking about getting a couple to pull a small cart on the parts of the property that’s too awkward for the tractor.
Ya they do that awesome.
Shout out to Karen she raises very nice Kikos
Just subbed. I live in wolf country; have you had any experiences with predators? How did your goats respond?
Here I go packgoats.com/pack-goats-and-predators-how-to-prevent-issues-before-they-occur/
@@PackGoatscom Thanks!
I just came across your Chanel and watched all your videos. Totally amazing! I am now seriously considering getting some goats so thanks. What goat breeds do you like for hardiness and parasite resistance? I know kikos are pretty hardy. What milk goats have you found to have these traits? Again thanks for the info.
Noah Cashmere I like lamancha crosses for those traits most. packgoats.com/goats-for-sale/
Have you ever used wolf/spiked collars on your pack goats, to keep predators from being able to attack their neck? @@PackGoatscom
That’s funny. My Alpine gets their butt handed to them by my mini Boer.
But I bet your Alpine hauls the mail do the math!
Sounds like we need a selective breeding program, if its done carefully it may only take 10 generations to see a significant change and a new "breed" forming.
Lol I always say that a smart dog is not necessarily a good dog. I assume that applies to most animals
would a mini work for a pack goat
They can... just. Any carry a lot.
What about Nubians?
Ya, Nubians are a real risky packer...traditionally loud and lazy.