LLF - Is There Any Integrity Left?
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- 11 people who were on the Working Groups for Living in Love and Faith (LLF), have released a shocking statement saying nothing they recommended as a group will be brought before the General Synod!
Statement Link:
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Email: revdan@btrministries.org
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Living in Lust and Fornication never had any integrity! The fact it even exists shows an incredible departure from scripture and a clear desire by the revisionists to push the church into sexual immortality and apostasy.
Amen Reverend.
Dan, the truth is that the differences are irreconcilable. The Alliances's time would be better spent managing the separation and declaring the word of the Lord. Oil and water do not mix. Have no fellowship with those who promote and indeed celebrate sin.
2 Cor 6:17 Therefore “Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.”
I left the C of E and now attend a Free Evangelical Church
I left the C of E and now attend an Orthodox Church
Good for you
Great
I left the C of E and joined my local bible believing Baptist church
Good for you
I left the C of E and joined my local bible believing Holy Orthodox Church.
@@alanfromenglandcamino7149they also are on the road to “wokery”…
Baptist's and C of E don't partake in the Sacrament of Holy Communion - Orthdoox and Catholic only.
I now stand on the solid dock of a GAFcon church and sadly watch the ship of the C of E slowly sinking, as the crew keeps drilling more holes in its side! Is there a life raft for the Orthodox left on the boat I ask myself to row towards a bible believing church for salvation? Chris x
Rev Brett Murphy calls it.. “Living in Lust and Fornication”
Love Brother Brett :)
@@simeonyves5940 He's one of the most clever men!
God bless you! 🙌
In my opinion, the "LLF process" had a pre-determined outcome from the start. The Revisionists talk a big game about "listening" and "mutual flourishing" and such high-minded ideals; but in fact they are willing to manipulate the processes if necessary to have their way in the end. Period. At this point, if the C of E leaders do push for further accommodation of revisionist faith & morals (and I expect they will ram it through), I hope the Alliance and other groups will indeed create a third Province that can walk in true fellowship with Anglicans in the Global South and GAFCON provinces.
Get a hobby like knitting or walking.
I agree there is a lack of honesty about what the actual direction of travel is. Jesus always spoke clearly and directly in relation to sin and didn't mince his words.
yep, read my main comment on this page. totally pre determined.
@@Rosiedelaroux i see you are enlightened. we are discussing serious things about people's salvation and souls. if all you can do is offer bitchy comments, step away. also, you being a woman making a bitchy comment gives those who think women should not speak an excuse. get your heart right with Jesus.
@@Rosiedelaroux spaghetti dinners?
Surely “compromise” is a word neither side can use. Sad though it is, I think that the sooner there is a clean break between LLF and conservatives the better.
Compromise. Did Jesus wander about the place compromising with people? Sounds like sitting down with the devil and trying to hammer out a deal.There is truth and there are lies - no middle ground.
The invisible iron curtain is going up
Jesus was a progressive and a rebel. Who was also anti-establishment and anti-orthodox. He would have been against everything these old pearl clutchers are desperate to cling on to.
Should be there, not their!
The pedants shall inherit the earth
@@mrbaker7443 - But people who speak English won't it seems.
Well spotted
Five of us at our parish here in Canada had an extended review of the LLF paper, myself as warden, our English priest and 3 others - it declares openness to all views but a "bent" clearly appears - we gave it a good hard look and many hours of meetings on whether to bring it to the parish - unanimously turned down and scrapped - we are a conservative parish in the Anglican church of Canada, a feat in itself
Orthodox these days by the grace of God ☦ Christ is risen ☦
Once again, if these liberal Bishops and clergy clearly disagree so heavily with official Church of England teaching, why are they even there in the first place? Surely the Methodist Church would be suitable for their personal theology?
Because their aim is to change the CofE out of all recognition and they're winning. Time for Orthodoxy
@@marcokiteindeed it is about making everyone else in their image.
Not fully open and honest. That sums it all up.
So you have those who love righteousness and those who love wickedness in the same religious institution having conversations about how they can compromise and mutually flourish together. Forging unity beteeen those who believe the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God and those who think they will.
Find a spirit of pragmatism. It's a spirit alright!
It is not maintaining the unity of the faith, but rather a grotesque caricature of it.
It, is different things to different people.
Andrew Goddard has written
It is clear that not all of these contributors are quite on the same page from the fact that the language of “three spaces” which Bishop Martyn introduced only two weeks ago (and I explored and Ian Paul has critiqued) has been withdrawn late in the process (para 10, p. 4). Instead we have simply returned to the language of “a generous space where all can thrive and where different theological convictions are honoured, recognising also that there are many congregations where a diversity of views of held” (para 4, p. 1). Despite having questions about how “three spaces” was being used, this is I think a retrograde step as it risks avoiding the need to face the deep doctrinal divisions we are facing and their implications for the nature of our unity.
That para 4.1 is nothing but a departure from solid Scripture. Paul wrote in his Epistles regarding savage wolves in sheep's clothing destroying the Flock with false teaching and doctrine, tickling itching ears and following their own lusts, leading people straight into sin - rebellion - against G,-d the Father's plain word. Yes, those caught up in their sin can be freed from it, through prayer and repentance, because that was something Christ died for.
In Romans, Paul indicates that being under Grace frees us to anything we want, but not everything is beneficial for us, and this LLF is and imposition on canonical belief in a velvet glove.
I do not give a damn about whatever bishop, arch or whomever, says of their own opinion if it doesn't reflect the Full Counsel of G-d the Father, not a 'penumbra' or loose interpretation because of false compassion and love, because G-d's love comes with justice, and that justice is clearly laid out in the 10 Commandments.
You will, of course say, they don't apply to Christians, but Jesus said He came to fulfil them, *not abolish them!* They apply to those who step out of His Grace, and Paul says that Grace does not give us licence to sin. However, he reserves the worst chastisement, let's say, to the teachers of the Word who misteach deliberately and refuse to be reproved. The Bible is touchstone here.
And don't drag out the old "so you're saying that homosexuals have to be dragged out and stoned to death" canard here - Jesus died and rose again to redeem them from that, as I said 'fulfil', that includes the due penalty demanded by the Law, but G-d the Father is not above letting them go full on in their sin because they will get the due chastisement in their bodies, especially men (male protein stays in another man's body for 7 years and adversely affects immune systems, apparently - fact check *that,* if you want).
The C of E is going down folks. Those of you who wish to stay, you'd better stand up and fight this, diocese by diocese, parish by parish, PCC by PCC, vicar by viar, rector by rector - but underpinned by some *fervent prayer* first! Or leave your church if they accept LFF and find a better, more orthodox Bible-teaching church.
There can be no "unity" when the Word of God is being ignored. The worst part of this is the deception that is being deployed on gay people. They are being told that they can remain in their sin but yet are covered by the sacrifice of Jesus and are therefore holy and acceptable before God. And considering that the church leadership has so blatantly lied to them, they might just be forgiven on judgment day. However, will the leadership of the church be forgiven on judgment day? The Fear of the Lord is completely absent here.
No - none. It's the end of the CofE, institutionally speaking.
When the first 'women priest' was 'ordained' it was the end, institutionally speaking.
@@marcokite Agreed. Although it was seen as a 'secondary' issue, it was a clear strike against biblical authority.
So if the 'official' working group decides on wording to be presented to synod, who is making changes or deciding on the wording presented?
Please leave Rev Dan,leave the apostacy
I found images of a Facebook page for the Christian Greenbelt festival pretty surprising
I think the green belt festival has been captured by the progressives. Bible believing Christian’s would not thrive there.
I was surrounded and threatened with violence at Greenbelt 2000 for being same sex attracted and asking why a Christian festival was teaching us that sleeping around, getting drunk and taking illegal drugs was OK because Jesus said something else. The entire room erupted with other gays screaming and shouting at me, surrounding me and threatening me with violence. People came up to me for the following two days and said they wished they had stood up for me but they were "too scared" as most of them said to me. Oh yes, people were scared at a "Christian" festival. Other years, Greenbelt has had lgbt "Christian" organisations such as Courage who used to be Biblical but went to Greenbelt and taught that wives of bisexual men need to accept and bless their husbands having affairs with men. A Biblical LGBT organisation told me their phone doesn't stop ringing the week after Greenbelt, especially the Monday. I was messed up for a couple of days following my one experience at Greenbelt. I would never recommend that place to anyone. Paul Northup was acting festival organiser at the time and his emails to me said he agreed with the threats of violence etc i faced because I am "evangelical". No, I am not evangelical but even if i was, he was condoning threats of violence at his festival. He has since written for pacifist organisations and has refused any of my messages and public statements about him condoning violence against me.
@@catherinehume9193 Oh my goodness that sounds terrible. It is a shame as I loved going as a child and as a teenager and would have loved to take my children but not as it is, it seems very political.
There is *No such thing* as a "Christian Festival" ! Revelry is a SIN and is a Forbidden work of the Flesh that is utterly Condemned in Galatians Chapter 5!
It appears that an "honest and even-handed compromise" is probably impossible. So now what?
“Is THERE any Integrity Left?” .!??!
There will be no even handed discussion. I used to be in Leicester Diocese.
The key point not being discussed is: What does God think to all this, what does the Bible have to say about human sexual relationships?
The Torah explaines it on differing levels of awareness and understanding.
The phonetic script is a basic description of what should be done.
The symbolism of each letter of each word gives a deeper level but you must be able to reliquish modern evangelical perception to get to grips with Hebrew bible symbolism.
To simplify.
Eve symbolizes the higher awarness of Adam and Adam is general awareness of the mind created to see God.
Male and female. Bare with me.
God talked to Adam and showed him the animals.
Adam simply names them as a child would.
Hence God upgrades the mind by adding to it.
As you talk to yourself in your mind, God created Eve for the same purpose.
This helps the created mind develop at a faster rate.
Unfortunately this also created the awareness of self.
Thought energy is symbolically male. Its the doing or working part of the mind. The female is knowledge.
Energy allows thought to take place.
In creation God seperates energy from knowledge.
Energy is flowed into the void to form a non thinking framework.
When God breaths life into the framework He also adds knowledge very slowly so that Adam can assimilate the knowledge and remember it.
Adam will have to work with the sweat of his brow to overcome the fall.
Good and evil represents Godly thought and evil represents self only thought.
The self desires power of thought to rule itself.
Marriage therefore is the joining of energy and knowledge to think.
In the begining this was to allow thought about God.
After the fall it is about thinking of self.
If either party hoard power or information, life stops.
The power sllows a flow of energy so that thought can be shared. It is like your mind.
Starve the flow of life to part of the mind and your thought is altered or decieved.
God desires the collective mind to think with God.
The deciever desires you energize his collective thought.
So same sex marriage is a form of self love that encapsulates itself and shuts out others.
The seperation from God did the same.
The Earth was dependent on itself without Gods direct thought. Self.
The flow of energy and thought remained on Earth.
Hence the knowledge of birth and death. What is born here, stays here but the soul lives on. Thats too much for here.
For Isreal to overcome this world it had to stand together with God.
When knowledge of God was extended outwardly like a growing collective mind in the camp of Isreal, it was the children.
They prospered by developing in size and awareness of God.
There thought was connected to God via the Tabernacle and Ark of the covenant.
If homosexuality had been allowed it would have disrupted the development of Isreal knowledge and power to do God's purpose.
As you can imagine, this does go deeper.
I hope you did not mind me writing this too you.
God be with you and the world.
What God thinks about these issues seems to be last thing on the minds of the C of E hierarchy!
You didn't mention Holy Tradition which is the EQUAL of the Bible, the Bible is a PART of Tradition.
@@kenbeach5021 Yep
@@woodtier-gv8hesuch folly. We all encounter texts differently. Hermeneutics is involved. Teach people to find meaning rather then telling them what things mean.😢
Are we surprised? So they listened then spun it towards the initial goal of the house of bishops? This simply paints those who want to hold to traditional orthodoxy as splitters going against a spirit of unity.
Bread is made for laughter, and wine gladdens life, and money answers everything
Got to get st Philips church in Southport uk
to stop doing weddings and christenings. Just a community church and gathering would be Better status
Is it usefull you fight the living in list and fornication? . I would feel dirty when I had to participate.
I (we) left the bad church, joined a conservative Baptist Church. Spend all my time on spreading the Gospel to those that never heard it. The LLF won't listen. Don't waste your time. Blessings to you.
There, not their.
Once more I am glad that I am not a Christian - I don't have to put up with people trying to massage what I believe into something else entirely different. I haven't read the bible for a long time, but I don't remember hearing about it being changed to suit current trends. COE leadership is a bad joke (sorry).
@@sillypuppy5940 Do please read the Bible. It tells the truth about everything because God is the ultimate truth. I am afraid that all this nonsense is yet another case of an organisation deciding that it must perpetuate itself at all costs.
the COE no longer the christianity of the bible. it would be better for its members who still adhere to the teachings of Jesus Christ to join the anglican ordinariate
Um, what is "the christianity of the bible"?
In a nutshell:- Jesus wasn't a Christian, and neither were the Apostles, they were Messianic Jews preaching Messiah, translated to Christus in Greek, then Christ in Latin, of which we are stuck with.
They were 'Followers of The Way" until some Roman Emperor, Diocletian I think, used the term 'Christian' as term of insult, meaning "Little Christs".
And here we are.
Then Constantine, and the Council of Nicea, disavowed the Jews as 'Christ killers', and developed their own rituals, times and seasons, and punishments for anyone having anything to do with the Jews and, again, here we are.
So, define your terms.
@@chrismaguire3667 read church history and read the didache
@@chrismaguire3667Good history lesson but Jesus himself told us not to fornicate…. Whether straight or homosexual, and as the biblical definition of marriage is one man and one woman, then draw the obvious conclusion….
@@chrismaguire3667 we worship god through Jesus, so it’s called judeo Christianity
It's not just the Bible, the Bible is only a PART of Holy Tradition
*there
I think there is a degree of integrity and sincerity involved - albeit mistaken. I suspect that the majority of the pro-SSM group sincerely believe the common gay propaganda idea that in effect 'being gay is like being black' and if that is true then opposing gays and SSM would be a sin/crime of the same kind as racism. People who believe that would sincerely push for SSM and would reasonably believe it actually immoral to oppose it. We should respect that intention....
Thing is, however, that actually 'being gay' is in a different moral area altogether. NOT a situation where people 'just are' gay and have 'no choice'; instead it's a situation where the key thing is something people very much DO and therefore unless insane are CHOOSING to DO, ie the sexual acts. The nearest thing in this situation that can be claimed as 'being' is not simple stuff at all but very complex matters of the urges and desires to do whatever - and I do mean whatever, get into this category and we are not just dealing with the limited area of sexuality, almost all human behaviour is in this category of things 'done and chosen because urges and desires'. And here's the sting - it can't be automatically assumed, without further consideration, that the urges and desires people have are just natural and perfectly OK to be lived out/acted out. Lots of people have urges and desires such that you wouldn't want to be on the receiving end if they were lived out.
Urges and desires - and not just the sexual ones - cover the whole gamut of human behaviour and can create complex moral issues. But for the current CofE discussions the key bit is that simple point that a claim to have certain urges and desires is a very different thing to having an ethnic difference or say a different eye colour.
What is your position on this Rev Dan?
Danny boy
I’m a Society Priest. I must confess I found our statement disappointing, weak and political. We usually look to Rome for authority but looked like we were now using a lower case ‘C’
Better off looking to the Orthodox patriarchs for authority.
👍😀
Let's hope and pray that a way is found for the CofE to stay together. In some ways the Leicester discussions sound similar to the Code of Conduct I suggested to the CofE Evangelical Council (CEEC) more than a year ago, just after signing the 'Greater Love' declaration, which seeks to preserve the orthodox view. I didn't get a substantive reply. My suggestion was a Code of Conduct which the sensible 90+% of people in all branches of the CofE could accept. It would protect our right to express the orthodox view, its Biblical basis to be recognised, and nobody forced to bless same sex relationships if we disagree with doing so. At the same time, we should all agree not to try to change a person's sexual orientation - nobody has provided convincing evidence of it being possible to do so - nor to portray non-heterosexual orientation (as opposed to practice) as sinful. A Code of Conduct on this basis should also, in my view, go a long was towards defending anyone against criminal allegations in the event of conversion therapy becoming illegal. Sadly, I still see some of my fellow conservatives spouting views of homosexuality based on 1970s secular thinking. I'm also concerned that the conservative wing of the CofE is increasingly becoming fertile ground for extremist views on other issues, such as smacking children (the Bible does not prescribe a specific form of punishment for misbehaving 'dustbin lids'), or objecting to women with young children holding professional jobs. Such views would have been challenged 10-20 years ago.
Problem is, you broke away from the original church...
Yes, the Holy Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholics did too.
@@jovanblom7742 What would be the point in staying in a church that had lost the gospel and obscured it with unbiblical traditions?
the celtic church was the original church here in the uk. The church in judea was the original church!!!!
@@marcokite2015 pew research petitioned rcc members and orthodox members. 70%of catholics said homosexuality should be accepted, it was 63% for orthodox believers.