LLF - Will The Church of England Spilt?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
- Bishops and different groups are uniting against the trajectory of the Church of England over same-sex blessings. If the General Synod votes them through, will the Church of England spilt?
Engage with me online - linktr.ee/monoingles
Buy Me A Coffee - bit.ly/coffee_please
Paypal: bit.ly/paypalrevdan
Email: revdan@btrministries.org
Article Links:
www.premierchristianity.com/e...
alliancecofe.org/letters/
www.sswsh.com/news.php
www.forwardinfaith.com/fullpo...
www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/...
ESV Bible Study Bible - I have used this for years, it is excellent.
UK - amzn.to/3Q7Sqly
US - amzn.to/3i5Qeym
00:00 Introduction
01:17 The 11 Bishops
11:20 The Alliance
24:25 The Society
26:50 Forward in Faith
30:26 The Telegraph
As a Vicar, I am so grateful for the courage and leadership of the orthodox bishops and the alliance.
Brother, as a layman, I am so grateful for the courage and leadership of the Holy Orthodox Church. an ex-Anglican now happily Orthodox. (I know that's not what you mean by 'orthodox').
Nowhere to be found in my King James Bible.
@@marcokite Greetings from Holy Russia.
God bless you in this fight. And it is a fight and those on the other side are your enemies as they are enemies of Christs Cross
Ordaining women isn’t what god ordered. Jesus and holy spirit would be the same as god on that one.
Surely the only route to an informed decision is via Biblical Truth.
Yes, there needs to be a split. What that might look like, I am unsure. But we should take seriously 2 Corinthians 6:14-17 about separation from wickedness.
Such a mess and a feeling of loss of tearing away from our lords teachings .
Remind me where our Lord condemned single sex relationships?
2015 pew research found 67% of all christians worldwide think homosexuality should be accepted.
@@JohnGaleLondon55 Matthew 19:5-6 Not a condemnation but laid out plain and simple what our heavenly farther intended for us confirmed by our Lord the living word of God Jesus Christ.
@@vidarr7827 What has this got to do with it? Jesus was trying to answer a question from the Pharisees in relation to divorce - so of course his answer only mentions a man and a women. Why would he have engaged in a discussion on single sex relationships - something that certainly existed at the time and were as common in ancient cultures as they are today.
@@JohnGaleLondon55 why did you ask the question if not to open up a healthy discussion or simply have an answer? I wish to keep this respectful as I believe I have been. He also said. Those who have ears to hear let them hear. Some other verses if you are interested in exploring this further are 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Romans 1:26-27. Peace be with you my friend.
Yes and its down to leadership. They are so removed from the teachings.
I left the C of E a while ago and now attend a Free Evangelical Church. ✝️
There’s one in Stanley park (fountains way) Liverpool or even morcambe FCE.
Sadly, I know of too many parishes and parishioners who haven't a clue what's going on. If LLF gets a mention in PCC meetings, or the general congregation, it's usually told as a "done deal" rather than something to be discussed and agreed upon.
There's also the problem of some parishes now having such tiny congregations, with only people left are those inline with their minister.
Years ago I warned against the Minster model, something which was forced through in our area, and I was castigated at the PCC AGM by those brought in to push agenda changes through. The 4 parishes included have now greatly reduced congregations.
This LLF debacle is history being repeated 😢
As a Catholic I thought we had issues but they pale into insignificance compared to the CofE it seems
I agree I was Anglican now Catholic thank goodness. I don’t even know what Rev Dan is talking about - what’s the issue exactly?
The CofE is just one church in the Communion. It is like the Synodal Way problem in Germany among the RCC. Since 2022, hundreds of thousands of Catholics left the Church. In that year 2.4% of German Catholics left in a single year and another 400K left last year. Ireland and Poland are seeing massive falls in Mass attendance as well.
European Christianity as a whole is in crisis.
This is not just a problem in the Church of England. We do seem to be in the midst of the Great Apostasy, as predicted in the Sacred Scriptures, which will be a prelude to the End Times, apart from one thing. The Church in Africa is growing rapidly. It remains faithful to the Sacred Scriptures and to the Tradition of the Church. This was brought into sharp focus when Cardinal Fernandez tried to impose a piece of Jesuitic Casuistry on the Catholic Church - Fidicucia Supplicans, which could be read almost any way you wanted. When Cardinal Fernandez tried to assuage the African Bishops by explaining that the Church had not changed its teaching in any way, the African Bishops replied “Good - we are pleased to hear that the Church has not altered its teaching in any way, so we shall throw Fiducia Supplicans in the rubbish bin.” In the end, humiliated, Cardinal Fernandez had to grant the African Bishops a formal exemption from Fiducia Supplicans. However, both he and the Pope then went on to humiliate the African Bishops and Cardinal Sarah, by saying that Africans were simple people, of limited intellectual ability, still bound by their ancient tribal beliefs. Quite simply, that is not true. The ancient tribal beliefs of the African people included various sexual perversions, including homosexuality, polygamy, etc and they consider that there were set free from their former sinful lifestyles by the Christian Faith. It is they who now remain true to that Faith, which saved them from sin and it is those who brought them that Faith, the European missionaries, who have now abandoned that Faith. The history of salvation is full of such examples - those who were given the Faith rejected it and it was then taken from them and given to others. The Church will not die - it might die in parts of the world. The early Church was based in Asia Minor and North Africa - it has died out almost completely there, to be replaced by the Muslim Faith, but it then flourished in the former Pagan lands of Europe, and, as it dies out there, it will be passed on to the new people favoured by the Lord because of their simple faith and trust in him - the people of Africa and other poor parts of the world.
Hummm... Forgive me Rev. Dan the off-topic, but does really anyone thinks the Roman Catholic issues are smaller than the CofE ones? Really? Really???...
Certainly the RCC has a more centralized way of governance and once they own their own state, they don't need to be accountable with a civilian Parliament. This is perhaps the biggest problem concerning CofE. Without UK's parliament approval they'd probably to lose some privileges. That's not our problem. We can to hide our problems for longer once the Pope acts quite like a absolute Monarch, even though the current one is quite critical of some aspects of a model he can't change by himself.
That said our crisis is far large than CofE's one. First of all and like on many other aspects of our life, size matters. The RCC is simply the largest Christian body on earth! That said our problems couldn't be smaller than CofE's one. Practically impossible.
Then there is the particulars on the smaller area scale: There's no institution losing as many individuals than the RCC at the moment at least on the Western developed countries, perhaps, but not limited, due to that horrendous worldwide pedo Priests scandal. The younger generations are leaving in droves and our Parishes are now being attended mostly by the oldsters, even on the rural areas. My own rural area Parish is basically 75+ on any given Sunday. At my late 40's I'm surely one of the 10 youngest regularly attending. A whole celibate male hierarchy is slowly but consistently imploding the institution from the inside, and that is not far more visible right now... Because really the younger people are leaving in larger droves year after year! If nothing would be done in some 25 years our Church will be done in most places like my own little village and even in most towns it will be reduced to the resisting Cathedrals and the odd resisting large mega Parish.
Finally let me to make a friendly advice to all those unhappy "conservative" (whatever else may be) Anglicans: I will be extremely happy to receive you on the Catholic Faith, but make me a favor, please: Come because this is your new place on your Faith journey. Don't come as an escape to a problematic Faith elsewhere! Yes: I'm a Catholic but from time to time I feel the pain of our problems as well. There are no perfect worlds in this world. The RCC is not surely a perfect world as well! Keep your good Faith wherever you feel right... For your Faith, not to escape whatever problem maybe!
Have a nice day!
. Romans 16:17- "Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them."
How far removed all this is from the church of the NT.
The Orthodox Church is the church of the NT
A long long way. The rot became visible with the ordination of women.
@@albertito77 I think it predates that. There always was a rotten element in the make up of the C of E, the liberal establishment that John Stott tried to overcome with evanglicalism.
You have always had this battle between those who take the bible seriously and those who don't and follow a wishy-washy kind of religious churchianity, devoid of the Spirit.
The sooner the better I was cancelled when I moved church as I started my lay ministry training. I was taken off the course web site before I even got home. The reason was I wanted to look at the mens rights movement and how my christian faith and spirituality in Christ would work in my life and as a lay minister. , I go to a Baptist church presently but as an Anglo Catholic I feel lost and not in communion with the sacrament of communion, I wish we had a Free church of England here.
Investigate Holy Orthodoxy
A church near me has already split. Not C of E but was Evengelical. So now 1 is Vineyard n the other Riverside, which is pushing 'all are welcome' esp LBGT+ as The Bible is out dated n needs to be taught in modern terms!!! The 'vicar' apparently said 'the disciples wrote the gospels with their time n views in mind, so we should read it n apply what we feel is right in our time! So twisting scripture to justify their views! I'm in UK.
Lgb… lifestyles are sinful as with anything else.
Thanks Dan for guiding us through the mess. I was reading in the book of Malachi the other day and came across this verse "You have wearied the Lord with your words. "How have we wearied him?"you ask. By saying "All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord and he is pleased with them". (Mal. 2:17). The verse seems to be very appropriate to the teaching of those who want to change the church's doctrine on marriage and claim that God wants to bless same sex couples. How can God bless what he has forbidden? Yet this is what the revisionists seem to be trying to achieve. They have swallowed the woke mentality hook line and sinker. Blessings, John
I haven't yet heard any bishop spell out why he, or she, claims there are no doctrinal changes involved in these proposals... Of course these are changes and are unacceptable.
Vicar: I can’t accept this! It’s the last straw! I’ll have to leave the Church!
Wife: But darling, think of the children’s education!
Vicar: Oh, well, better postpone it then.
Children should be Homeschooled!
good on those 11 faithful bishops ... the lay hardly have a voice, the junior shepherds are speaking up about apostasy in the leadership, if the leadership refuses to listen, the faithful (lay & ordained) must 'come out from among them' ... God will provide if they trust Him as they 'follow the Cloud' ... our family did that 30+ yrs ago when we left the Uniting Church (Aust) & became a Pentecostal fellowship ... we must be faithful to Jesus first, & respond to the leading of the Holy Spirit ...
In early 1980's my church members prayed for me to be 'healed' in my sexuality. In obedience I listened hard to my church and believed in my healing - and was married four years later completely believing in that healing. It took ten years for everything to fall part, years of therapy, worry, suicidal and depressive days and months. Divorce after ten years. Gave my wife everthing I had - including the house and found a room. That's the shape of a healing church. A killer. Answers? Repentance? Or split please.
I am very heavy hearted this month being overwhelmed at my job by barage of LGBTQ+ celebrations & then no clear relief of being able to share this burden in my church life. Supported by chosen individuals of course, if I talk freely about my feelings in my parish, I am as likely to be accused of bigotry as cared for.
People who have been oppressed have difficulty empathizing with their oppressors.
@@davidsprouse151 Thank you for that. While I get what you mean to a degree, and maybe I deserve to feel burdened with concern. But I obviously have no insight into what you personally have been through, it's important that the opressor/ oppressed narrative doesn't switch between sides as any form of "revenge" ,or else vicious cycle.of never-ending victimhood/ bullying can ensue. Also because I want to disagree well with somebody, I should respectfully still give them the space to say what they want and be what they want within the law even.If I disagree, it doesn't mean I'm oppressor, even if it may feel like that to people. Kind truth can feel very hurtful. It's really important to put Bible and theology above my feelings, or your feelings, while allow us both to express them. I worry that agape truth is getting lost in my/ your sensitivity.
@@saintwatson1 I'm not oppressed
they did a survey on attitudes towards homosexuality worldwide in 2015. For catholics, orthodox christians and mainline protestants 70% said it should be accepted! Black churches 51%, evangelicals 36%. Those aren't insignificant numbers. Unfortunately for many gay people all they hear are the homophobes. It turns them off to christianity.
@@saintwatson1 all these traditionally oppressed minorities have learned to carve out (territorialize?) safe spaces. You might feel otherized in those situations. All affinity groups do it really.
I just try to put forth the idea that everyone is an other of an other. And , that the position of the outsider is actually a privileged point of view. It can lead to discernment.
Dear Pastor Dan, I just saw your subject, not yet see your entire message, but while watching our Royals visiting your country, I remembered a Japanese Christian woman standing at a gap of both country caused by warfare. Reconciliation is our Christian's duty and obligation as you would be aware. Can't you take forward to step in such a direction? I really feel sorry and sad to hear splitting CE. As standing at a Charismatic independent tent making worker, I could imagine how blessed and protected to be in such a big organization. I chose myself as independent, because I wished the Holy Spirit would work freely. But when you/they grew up in the church, I recommend to stay there. Hope it might not be an outsider's big mouth. Thank you!
Thanks
It's going to happen, the moment Jesus comes to divide the world into his sheep and the goats.
Sadly there is an increasing disconnect between following Jesus and institutional Christianity- I resonate with very little outside the parish community. All the changes in the last 50 years have done nothing to halt the decline.
These changes, from women's ordination, to attempting to he an arm of the State, and now to Alphabet Mafia nonsense, have CAUSED the decline in the Church
I'm not sure whether the question "Will the Church of England Spilt?" is an appropriate question in that structurally there is no mechanism for such a split. It is possible that a number of priests and parishioners will walk away from the C of E and form some form association. However, the physical churches and all that is implicit in that will be retained by the those fall in line with the power brokers in the C of E. It's a right mess.
Dan should be abc! We need more labour representation. ❤
The words of an imaginary super hero (Starlight)
'If you jump ship and let the arseholes steer, then you are part of the problem'
Hey Rev Dan, Is there any chance you have a video that lays out the relationship between the Anglican Communion, the CofE, the provinces etc? If not, where is there a good resource that can lay it out. I and many others I've spoken to are trying to accurately following what is happening, but the dynamics of the eccelsiological structure becomes somewhat hard to follow - especially coming from a non CofE background.
Anyway, you're great and I find everything you cover extremely helpful and you are asssisting myself and others in making decisions about church.
How can you know which bishops follow which side? I would be interested to know
Whether you agree with the blessings or not, the Bishops aren't following the correct legal procedures for introducing new liturgy. If individual churches didn't follow safeguarding procedures, there'd be an uproar, and rightly so. The Bishops are sadly doing the same. They are bypassing the correct and agreed procedures as the letter says, put there for everyone's benefit and to avoid this sort of thing. They are muscling through something against to democratic process.
Muscling through progressive trojan horses is what enemies of the Cross of Christ have been doing since time immemorial
Would make it so much easier if they all stuck with what God originally said in His Word!!..we are all to be conformed to Christ
As we all know, God created MAN AND WOMAN, NOTHING ELSE. Many lost souls are now lost,looking for somewhere to belong to, so many untruths have been spoken to many of different ages groups, confusion of Gods creation is lost,frightened,struggling to find answers for their struggling souls. Some of the clergy, bishops et al have also fallen into darkness and not attended to their flock in time of need.The bishops et al need to stop this darkness and pray to our lord Jesus, for their sins against him,and be guided back to our lords teachings of the bible. Not this dangerous woke nonsence that is damaging humanity. Children and adults need proper Christian guidence and also pray for forgiveness and send the dark one back to where he should be,with his helpers. Praying for our lord to protect us from all dark forces and guide us from harm,that many have experienced not just here, but around the world. Pray for the C of E to be saved for all us lost souls. AMEN.🕊️🙏✝️🇬🇧
As we all know...
Yes apparently there is a deal ready with Rome to welcome home a part of the COE who accept the traditional faith
Frankly, since returning to Christ after 45 years, I found the Cof E to be a pale shadow of its former self. I now think the CofE is just a "fat lesbian christian cosplay LARP", and in my reading and researching, have followed Gavin Ashenden into the Catholic Church -not out of disgust, but more as a series of revelations all pointing in one direction. I actually attended packed Christmas Midnight Mass, and was pretty horrified at the slapdash way it was conducted.
Brother, welcome back.
But name calling is something that Jesus tells us in Matthew’s Gospel to not call people names, our people down etc. He said it is a sin akin to murder because you have murdered that person in your heart.
We can criticise the c of e without resorting to name calling and lowering ourselves to the low bar that many others conduct themselves.
If we are better, we have to be better.
I’m gay and live for Jesus. Please don’t use gay as an insult. It’s not amazing behaviour and it is not close to Christ’s heart.
Investigate Holy Orthodoxy - the RCC is doing its best to become the CofE.
Sound, Biblically-focused churches do exist in the C of E if you know where to look.
I may have to go to Rome.
A falling away from traditional apostolic ministry & teaching is occuring in the Catholic Church as well as the Anglican communion. Could not this be the time for traditional Christians to seriously seek unity under the catholic umbrella, whilst leaving liberal modernists to follow the creation of a church of their own making.
In rural areas with Benefices it will definitely spilit local church communities... in fact it already is...
Trad biblical, apostolic Anglicans joining the Catholic church would help influence a return to orthodoxy in the Catholic church too.
Only 11 Bishops.. How sad....
On reflection the answer could be simple: restart the "peculiar" system.
I doubt that there will be a split in terms of roughly equal proportions. However, I would think you will see various groups and affiliations form up. I would strongly advise anyone who is thinking of leaving the CoE, to look into existing jurisdictions like ACC-DUK or FCE, as opposed to starting something new.
From a Catholic outsider, I'm almost certain of what you're telling. Actually very few will leave. Some more noisy than others and the current conservative evangelical minority is far more noisy than the ones on former splits. This one will be on the usual 10-15% usual size observed on all US mainline Churches but eh UMC where things are being larger and more complex. The conservatives will have their place as the mainline Church will continue more or less as it is. There is here a bureaucratic problem that will perhaps delay the split for a while: CofE is a state Church and they need ultimately a say from the Parliament. That sorted of after UK general elections, it will just to be a matter of time to get this sorted out.
Regarding your comment of ‘anyone leaving cofe to consider an existing jurisdiction rather than setting up something new’ what would the problems be there
@maryjudith3681 I have two problems with starting something new. First would be the human tendency to desire leadership. This can lead an offshoot group to think they need their own new bishop and seek out episcopi vagantes, which can risk elevating a man in an almost cult like setting.
Second, and perhaps more importantly, is that by having so many small isolated groups that are not in fellowship with each other, it is easy for darkness and evil to divide and conquer us.
To some extent, we are well advised not to try and reinvent the wheel.
What’s the issue exactly?
Ideally C of E needs a top/higher clergy clear out and reform, rather than split, I note two of the signing 11 bishops are female, currently they have no where to do if the church splits because all alternative Anglican groups do not accept bishops who are female and/or divorced/remarried. This is indicative of other issues in splitting in that many laity will fall in between the two groups or structures. One group will be too liberal for some and the other will be too conservative for others. Firstly the C of E needs to choose its own leadership and remove/distance itself from political influence, it’s crazy how currently non Anglicans choose the first among equals. Hang in there C of E faithful, unity and peace should be aimed for as long as the Gospel can still be preached. Prayers are will you all.
Well said. In the event of a split I don't know which way I'd jump. I believe in Biblical inerrancy and regard homosexual relationships as incompatible with its teaching. But at the same time I'm getting increasingly concerned at some of the extreme social conservatism (much influenced by the norms of middle class southern England in about 1975) going unchallenged in the UK evangelical movement, where it certainly would have been challenged 10-20 years ago.
No if we get rid of all the riff raff I don't se why not it can't carry on, bad news to Labour thou. They intend to do away with it, but let these muslim have there places,... 🌹🏴🏴🇨🇮🏴🇬🇧
Reform is our only hope
Surely the great glory of the Church of England is the fact that it is an 'umbrella' church, capable of including a wide variety of theological teaching and social attitudes. Surely if Calvinists, Lutherans, Evangelicals and Catholics can live happily in the same church, both those who support and those who oppose the ordination of women - then surely we can accept relationships which are not a problem in many other Christian denominations. The Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement was founded in 1976, nearly half a century ago! It is only a matter of time before marriage between same sex couples becomes a common event. I walked past a well known high school yesterday who were celebrating Pride. If the church has any hope of attracting the younger generation, it needs to get wise, concentrate on faith and worship and spend less time worrying about who lives with whom.
'Nearly Half a century ago'. For a church which is 2000 years old, that's yesterday.
The difference is that the above positions all placed priority on what God has revealed, and had ultimately mild disagreements on what exactly that was. Theological Liberals are different in that they differ not just on what was revealed, but on it's priority, believing that culture should dominate doctrine
The role of the church is not to attract a younger generation.its to preach the gospel and save souls.the road is narrow for a reason,only a few will find it.
@@dacdail15 Besides, the young want the actual faith, not the waterer down version
@@dacdail15 I totally agree, (I was brought up as a Baptist) but you can only preach the gospel if you have people who are listening. I seem to remember that our Lord spent most of his time with those the establishment referred to as 'publicans and sinners. Turning away those whose lifestyle one does not accept, seems to me a rather strange way of trying to achieve our mission as a church. When I was a boy, my Baptist church would not admit anyone as a member who had been divorced. Today, even our clergy get divorced and remarry, so things do change.
Those who support the Alphabet Mafia are apostates and their true master is Satan.
Temple worship and sacrifice, along with the priesthood, were completely abolished by the Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary. Hebrews chapters 7-10 in the King James Bible.
There's nothing in my King James Bible about going to church or church buildings.
“Do not neglect to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encourage one another, and more than ever as you see the day drawing near.” You are right, of course - there is nothing about having to meet together in a dedicated building.
@Mark3ABE
A small group of saved people say in a home in fellowship. Worshipping , praying, and studying the word ( King James Bible or language equivalent )
will ensure faithful Christian Church teaching and practice.
Elder oversight, of course, as the scriptures teach. When I see the pitiful examples of so-called Christian practice in the denominations, then little wonder they are in terminal decline. My days are spent on the streets ( on my scooter, weather permitting ) with the Holy Ghost, my King James Bible, Gospel tracts, and the peace and joy of the Lord Jesus Christ in my heart. Colin. ( Yorkshire UK ).
@@colvinator1611 I agree, save for the use of the original Authorised Version. I see no objection to using the most recent update of the Authorised Version. Ideally, the English Standard Version, which does not alter the text to make use of “gender neutral language”, as does the NRSV, currently used by the Church of England. The difficulty with the King James Version is that, while it was a perfectly good and reliable translation at the time it was published, the English language has altered very considerably in the intervening years. For example, at the time it was published, “thee” and “thou” were not considered “holy” words, anymore than they are now in the Yorkshire dialect. I know that there are some who suggest that the translators of later versions have tried to “slip in” their own views and opinions, however, I do not find any real evidence for that, myself.
@Mark3ABE
In 1997, the King James Bible, along with the 23 top selling bibles, were subject to the Flesch Kincaid grade level indicator process in the USA.
The King James Bible came out on top ( there was an = score in one category ).
The process proved the KJV was the most accurate translation with a grade level of 9 years of age ( in the USA ).
Sentence structure simplicity, vowelisation, and sylable structure make the KJV pure English supreme in accuracy.
Thee , thine , thou et al are for singular definition.
Yea , your , you are for plural definition. ( see John 3 : 7 where the Lord Jesus refers to Nicodemus and the Jews respectively ).
Evil lies and heresy is deliberately sown in ALL modern so-called bibles. They all use the heavily corrupted minority Alexandrian manuscripts aleph ( the fake Siniaticus of 1844 ) and the incomplete codex B ( vaticanus ).
See Gail Riplingers' exhaustive research ( New Age Bible Versions ) and David Daniels books and research.
We slipped since the 1990s or from 1960s. St Philips church, Southport uk should have stopped weddings and Christenings from 2010s.
We've slipped since Adam and eve.😢
@@davidsprouse151 my mum and dad are church goers but false teachers.
SP ILT or SPLIT which?
I don't think any ecclesia (congregation) under financially controlled administration is what Jesus had in mind when He told us "Go make disciples of all nations." And denominations (45,000 of them?) must be a complete anathema to Him.
The rcc is really the one true church. 😮 but Peter got lots of things wrong. It's all a great drama, really.
@davidsprouse151
But the rcc is pagan in so many ways and extremely wicked (priests diddling little boys) and unashamedly rich, that it's not possible to see it as anything other than satan's whore.
@davidsprouse151
i don't think so: “The Pope is...the man on earth who represents the Son of God, who ‘takes the place’ of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity.”-Pope John Paul II, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 3
Represents. Just like the bread and wine are a representation. The priest represents christ
What is a presentation?
@@davidsprouse151
Christian means little Christ-like one; we are ALL representatives of Christ, but none of us, not even a pope, 'takes the place' of Christ on earth.
Jesus made it very clear "I go to be with the Father that the Spirit may come". (my paraphrase) What's the pope trying to do TAKING CHRIST's place, send the Spirit away?
Be extremely careful with catholicism and be completely sure that you are saved by grace, through faith...not of works, lest any man should boast.
Bless you David-praying for you...
it split decades ago
The heading should read Split ….not Spilt…..
Every single Protestant church has split since the reformation, why would Anglican be any different! The only church which has never wavered or split is the church Jesus Christ began and that is the Holy Catholic Church. Catholic means universal and for all Mankind. Proud to be a Catholic and will die Catholic.
Orthodox church says the Catholic church is schismatic
That Society statement was not satisfactory! Are they going gay?
You're a real 💎
No evidence of direction by the Holy Spirit. Time to look at who is humbly implementing the divine commission of Matt 28;19,20 in the great harvest in this ‘time of the end’.
That'd be me
@@davidsprouse151Don’t forget it’s a global commission! Jesus says so; his is the ‘spiritual authority’. (Matt 28;19. 24;14 7;21). In every tongue, to every tribe and nation! This is why JWs are so united and organised, focussed on being in the ‘yoke’ with the Christ. He is ‘with’ us in that work until the end (Matt 28;20) which won’t be long!
Love your informative talks BUT please pronounce “diocesan” correctly Diocesan- dio-ses-an
Will the Church of England split? No, and for one very simple reason. When the Scottish Church split in the 1840s it had enough ministers and parishioners with deep pockets to build churches and pay salaries for the new body, the Free Church of Scotland. A Free Anglican Church would have a tiny number of followers and not enough funds to create a new infrastructure for itself. It would be like the American Episcopalians who lose adherents, but keep hold of the buildings, so the new parishes have to meet in a hired hall or someone's front room.
Then how do you explain the Continuing Anglican denominations started in 1977 (with some earlier) and the Anglican Church of North America in the United States and Canada? We're not rich but we're trying as best we can to keep the faith once delivered to the saints!
Meeting in livings rooms has a very early church feel to it. Don't fear to do church that way if it means preserving your faith
@@albertito77Rather be there hearing the Gospel than in the grandest Episcopal Church in the country having to hear how bad I am for being a white male who believes what the Bible says!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not impressed by this guy - waffle
DAN: When the 'Rev' Brett Murphy refers to "Living in Love and Faith", as "Living in Lust and Fornication", without batting an eyelid at the cruelties of his language, then you just know the Church Universal is in trouble, and will split: but - perhaps - not in the way you envisage. As you know, I am a homosexual Christian man of seventy-two, who has shared forty-two years of life with a handsome, gentle, male atheist (77). Because I am a homosexual man, I obviously stopped partaking in the Eucharist around fifty years ago: wouldn't want to spoil that little club! Toward the end of his autobiography, the former Primus of the Episcopal Church of Scotland, Richard Holloway says this: "I was beginning to suspect there was more forgiveness outside the Church than in. And I became grateful for what the American poet Wendell Berry called 'the magnanimity of the world'." (p 334). And there you have it: the 'world' (so often despised by clerics and churchgoers like the 'Rev' Brett Murphy) is actually a finer place to be than the Church. The Church is nasty, unpleasant, and cruel: the complete antithesis of the young male Jew I find described in the Gospels. THAT is why the Church ios doomed to fail. God has moved on!
With all the hate and hurt and suffering in the world, I am amazed how those who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus and his upturning of Jewish orthodoxy ( for example the laws regarding the stoning of women caught in adultery) get so focused on issues to do with who people fall in love with and wish to spend their lives with. Those who have bothered to study the OT will note how ideas regarding marriage have changed enormously. David had at least 8 wives and countless concubines. One is hard pressed to find a definitive concept of what God ordained as acceptable marriage. Whilst Jesus made no comments about homosexuality ( after all, the concept of same sex marriage or co-habiting, was not something anybody thought of ), Jesus had much to say about adultery, greed, spiritual pride and hypocrisy. I presume that those parts of the CofE ( designated as the orthodox branch) have zero tolerance towards marrying divorcees or those who have had sexual relations before marriage. It is no wonder that so many people find organised religion so unattractive and unloving.
I'm amazed when people get the impression that the Lord Jesus was wrong when He taught us not to sin?
@@marcokiteAnd as for marriage he reinstated what God had intended it to be from the beginning, but fallen men had often drifted away from.
😊it is interesting how the church responds to domestic abuse. The world says flee and stay alive. The church says marriage is until you die even if you die at the hand of your spouse.
I know that on the ground, those with a pastoral heart read St. Paul's admonition to stay away from abusers and say get away to save your life. Sadly one of the challenges faced by those dealing with domestic violence is church teaching about marriage.
@@everyonecancraft70 I do not doubt that pastors have not always given the best advice on marriage, but they are not at liberty to set aside its permanent nature at the first sign of trouble. I can't imagine any pastor worth his salt would counsel a woman to stay where her physical safely is at stake.
The 'problem' with the church's i.e. the NT teaching on marriage is that it is not lived out. If it were and people kept the promises they made there would be no abuse, even if the marriage is not problem free in a fallen world.
When Did Jesus do this? Perhaps you refer to the passage concerning the woman taken in adultery (John 8)? Accepting this as canonical, did he not tell those who were with out sin to cast the first stone? And then the accusers were all gone. With out accusers she could not be found guilty. Given that she was said to have been caught in the act of adultery both parties should have been charged not just one. This was a judicial law given to the theocratic nation and Jesus respected it fully.
In return to Douglas Murray’s question: what could you be doing if you were not spending your time on this?
As a gay who lives for Jesus, I am glad I left the c of e. I left because of a situation that blew up, there was homophobia and Justin said none of it happened. He never spoke with me and any of the others. Justin is a liar who defends homophobic vicars. He is different people depending if there are cameras there or not.
I left the c of e and I am so glad. When I go to h church, I go to worship Jesus. I would hate my gayness to become anything that gets in the way of me worshipping Christ. And any emphasis on lgbt in the church makes a big deal out of something that isn’t.
The c of E is sunk. There are some good faithful servants left but most have left. Either Christ is King or He isn’t. Either we live for Christ or we don’t. Either we are on fire for Christ or we are lukewarm and will be spat out.
I choose Jesus, I choose life. I choose to forget self, pick up my cross and follow Christ.
We cannot be unequally yoked.
Whom do I thank for this wonderful yolk?
You are right: we cannot be unequally yolked. Repent and believe the Gospel. Go! And sin no more.
Thank you for your openness, Catherine. We need more people like you in the C of E. I'm in an evangelical church where we regard homosexual practice as contrary to Bible teaching, but I accept that other Christians take a different view on this point. However I'm saddened to hear intelligent, mature fellow believers spout views of homosexuality based on 1970s secular thinking which is not supported by the evidence. Some of them still think it possible to change a person's orientation, for example. Almost none of them have experience of the long-term singleness they advocate for gay and lesbian Christians, and do not appear to have thought about its long term effects on people, nor how to address it.
@timpearson5086 well said.
In 2015 a pew poll found that in all denominations 70% of respondants said homosexuality should be accepted..except evangelicals. It's only 36% for them.
@@timpearson5086 it seems difficult or impossible to change a homosexual to a heterosexual. Because I thimkmit doesn't work and that attempts to do so cause more harm than good, I am against them.
Yes I believe that my same sex attracted brethren are called to celibacy. But this doesn't mean absence of friendship and fellowship. We as the church can help provide that.
Time to accept all Gods children.
Acceptance is a different word to acquiescence.
So the Lord Jesus was wrong when He taught us not to sin? interesting
Whether they repent or not?
@@johnhudghton3535 indeed. It's not for you to determine whether another believer has repented.
@@davidsprouse151 ah the thought police are here again.
A nothing will split into two even smaller nothings? Who cares???