Destiny 2 Lightfall - My 1st impressions after 24 hours of play time (this… isn’t great)
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- Опубліковано 28 лют 2023
- Destiny 2’s Lightfall expansion has a lore of problems with its story. After about 24 hours I can confirm that the campaign makes some major mistakes and fails to explain basic plot elements. These are my first impressions of the narrative, lore and how the expansion is shaping up.
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"This was the worst time to rediscover mediocrity". This is exactly how I felt finishing the campaign. I don't understand how this wasn't caught in storyboarding
At this point I don't think bungie has Profesional writers on staff nor qa for the writing they really need some people that understand good storytelling and narrative structure to proofread their crap
@@quikain17 Iirc didn't the witch queen have a resident evil writer on the team? Might explain why the WQ was good.
@@quikain17 There's also a typo on a Solar fragment, lol
How in the world do you go from being one of the best gaming companies to a mediocre, lazy, woke company? It’s truly mind boggling
I think it is all part of the plan, you aren’t supposed to know everything yet. Think of the mysteries we’ve unraveled so far what we’re unraveling now. If we just knew everything about what was going on, and what exactly everything was there would be no mystery, no unwrapping no payoff for a conclusion 😊
The fact that Lightfall and The Final Shape were once a single expansion is really starting to show. Lightfall feels like the first act of the finale, not a story that could stand on its own
Gotta make that money
yearly releases really just dont work in gaming, it ALWAYS ends up failing, I honestly wish that lightfall and final shape never got split and we just had a 2 year gap from witch queen to final shape
but knowing this community they would complain equally as much because of "content drought" you know what has a lot of content? OTHER FUCKING GAMES
@@flamingscar5263 People would be complaining about a content drought and lack of updates
Honestly I hope bungie delay final shape to really nail the landing, there are simply too many threads and questions to need to be answered 10 years in and still waiting on further explanation of what any of this conflict really is
@@flamingscar5263 People complained about the content drought. Then those same people complain about the seasonal model. It happens. Its usually why I stay away from social media and form my own conclusions on things.
I was really really looking forward to a morally gray ground to interact with the Cloudstriders. But no, they were immediately friendly and teamed up ona whim. I wanted to see tension between us, Osiris, and the Cloudstriders. It could've been as easy as saying they don't trust us and will not reveal the secrets of the veil to us.
That would have made us not knowing what the Veil is make way more sense.
Would've been nice...it felt very off putting to me how we manage to track this place down that was once only a vision Osiris had and then we are like immediately allies and best buds with these dudes who just blind trust us.
We (complete strangers) rolled up in literally the same drop pods being used in the massive invasion of their city. Rohan even mentions how the Cloudstriders believed the immortal warlords of Earth would come to Neomuna as conquerors. It would have been more logical for them to try and ice Osiris and the guardian on the spot.
But isn’t this made by Disney? We are aaaaall friends and super duper friendly riiight?
Nimbus and Rohan talked on how they heard stories of the power hungry warlords that ruled over the mortals and has enough power to wipe any alien race off the galaxy. And you’re right… why didn’t they stay cautious?
One of the most blantently weird things I've seen from this story. To the people of Neomuna, The last city is *just now* barely functioning on the same level of civilization as them. For centuries earth was a wasteland where anyone that had a talking polyhedron on their side was a essentially an nigh unkillable god that could do anything they want with people who didn't. Then when a city was actually built, it was centered around some new agey cultist guy, his students, and a gaggle of batshit armed ideolouges that no modern, stable, democratic society of the golden age would ever have or even listen to (nihilist escapists, insane xenophobes hooked on unstable vex tech, and just monarchists). Plus they didn't touch any of the golden age leftovers (Mass defensive AI, weird magic people around a black hole in the asteroid belt, and the melagomanic corporatist freak known as Clovis). They had reason to, if they any helped or contacted anybody them, chances were they would've been wiped long ago by like Oryx or Ghaul. Nimbus could still be like the kid that wants to be friends with the new one that moves in, but Rohan should've shut down and question about what the veil is and only give what is nessecary to help Neomuna.
My favorite part of the campaign was the fight right before the last one where you and Caitl are defending the vault against waves of Calus’s cabal. In the final battle against Calus, my greatest enemy was the pit.
SERIOUSLY!!! whose idea was it to surround the arena with a pit, when the boss and all 3 mini bosses he summons has a knock back, AND the mini bosses can spam a suppress?
me and my friend watching caitl 1v1 a tormentor was the highlight of the campaign, the entire time we were also happy because finally an NPC actually helps us fight shit instead of just watching and being like "yeah we make a good team haha!"
I just screamed FACTS in my car after reading this. My goodness what a point!
Add to that you were not given a second of down time, so your health never really healed.
I had to sit under the stairs and just light him and the tormentors up because of that.
@@urboi6307 after many failures dealing with the tormentors i decide the strat was to get in caluses face and only leave it to lure the tormentors away o they could be ignored. Wored super well till phase 2...
Zavala and Caitl felt more emotional in haunted than the entirety of lightfall
I think that’s because that’s when they were going through their emotions. If I’m honest I feel they were emotionally fine after.
Ikora in Seraph: Were fucked and this may be our last time together so I want you to know that it was an honor fighting with you
Ikora in Lightfall: Oh we lost, we'll get them next time!
The entirety? It's been a day.
caiatl was pretty good especially the part where she calls the shadow legion cowards i just feel that she needed a much more presence on neomuna, where are her ships? also she should have dealt the final blow on calus
Broh imma be real. I dont feel like we lost. Like at all. Sure Traveler has hole it. But why the fuck do I care ? Ghost still can rez me. Still have light. And besides over the last year we learned the Traveler is a cowardly bitch who only thinks for itself. Further more we just killed Calus a discple of the witness who was threatening the last vestiges of our golden age. On top of that Humanity for the very first time since before the collapse find's itself surrounded by allies it can trust. Then when I got to talk to Zavala he bassically echo's those thoughts. Barely mentions the hole in the traveler and instead focusses on our allies. Its dogshit writing.
When I watched infinity war when I came out of that theater I felt both gutted but elated. I had just watch super heros which had never failed before even in the darkest day fucking lose. And they lost super hard. The villain fucking won. What I watched with this campaign feels nothing like that.
A hilarious moment in the campaign was when Osiris said we need to use strand to surprise Calus’ forces and the very next enemy had a strand shield??
RIGHT???
I agree, but, honestly, enemy shields have never made sense lol No one has the powers of light other than Guardians (and now Lighthive I guess), yet they have ALWAYS had Solar/Arc/Void shields? So I'm not surprised to see Strand shields tbh, as that's just been the norm. It just seems like a "gamey" mechanic that is handwaved for its combat use.
Lmao I literally Said the same thing when Osiris says we will surprise Calus wit strand then next enemy shield strand lmao I think calus know strand 😂😂🤦🏾♂️
Enemy Shields having a damage type is just video game mechanics.
What Characters in game see: Enemy has a Shield.
What Players see: Enemy has a shield we know means use that type of Weapon or Ability.
Yeah this campaign sucked massive caballs
The Witch Queen integrated some amazing things into the campaign DURING the campaign... The Evidence Board. Alters of Reflection. Memory Fragments. All of this was INTEGRATED into the main campaign story. it wasn't a "campaign mission" but it was quests during that helped explain the story, the serious threat of savathun, why she was there, why she was such a threat. It even lead to amazing plot twists that answered a lot of questions. The campaign was SOLELY focused on Savathun and the threat of Savathun. That's why the Witch Queen campaign felt so much more complete.
Don’t worry lightfall is now integrating itself into seasonal content. Now for the low price of $40 you can enjoy the full story of a stand-alone expansion
The extra talk of savathuun was annoying we already knew everything they haven't stfu about her for years before the dlc by the time witch queen dropped I didn't even care I'm enjoying lightfall way more qnd can't wait to see what's next through seasons and the final dlc
the witch queen campaign also had alot more to it, it had more than just the 8 story missions, and the missions were longer. on top of that, all the things introduced throughout the campaign, like savathun's worm and the altars stayed relevant post campaign and set up more things as well as answering more things. Lightfall has done a great job of fleshing things out in the post campaign story, but not as much as witch queen. Lightfall suffered from having strand too focused on and Calus as a villain. while it's always great to see calus since he's such a well written character. his story and lore, as well as the cabal's didn't really have any room to add more context or huge plot twists like Savathun and the hive did.
It was well polished and it felt amazing very high replay value everything flowed
Can we talk about how this campaign ends with Zavala giving us the "The real Traveler was the friends we made along the way" speech?
We called it as a community x)
"Zavala, the Traveler is how we're even here standing in the first place or even stand a chance fighting. Shut it"
He goes from crisis of faith at learning of the Lucent Hive to optimistic acceptance. That is bullshit. Here is the thing that elevated and protected humanity, the thing that has been the closest thing to an actual God since Man first looked up at the Sun, that Zavala always rallied to, that gave him and countless others hope just by existing, and he's just OK with it being stolen and carved up like a jack-o-lantern. How many centuries has he lived beneath it? Zero grief. That it's not Zavala.
Could you imagine Rohan teaching us all year through the seasonal stuff and THEN dropping this on us at the end? "Yeah my decade is up"
Could have been so many feels...
imagine the last season before finale shape is just us with Rohan in his last moments. Would of been amazing. Instead he died destroying the Radial mast, which is another thing that is introduce in LF, all characters know (including ghosts) what it is, but yet the player has zero background on.
@@darmorel549 bungie has shitty writers
@@darmorel549 bro that whole mission they said radial mast like 20 times, and every time they said it is thought “are they gonna give us some context on what this is?”
@@darmorel549 I mean honestly just knowing that the Mast was a darkness imbued doohickey of sorts that was powering Calus' ship was enough explanation why destroying it was good imo but yeah expecting us to care about Rohan dying was laughable.
Bro even the end, like no one said a word once he drew the portal on the traveler, like no one cares
Everyone in the campaign: “You must reach the veil before it’s too late!”
Players: “…what’s the veil?”
Everyone in the campaign: “You know, the veil? The veil? Yeah, the veil.”
Players: “No, what’s the veil?”
Everyone in the campaign: “It’s the veil.”
Players: “oh”
Knowing Bungie, the Veil is probably explained in the flavour text of a random blue sidearm that can drop.
Reminds me of The Hole by tomska lmao
@@epsilon2843 "where'd the story go, bungie?" "It's in the hole" "what hole?" "that hole" *Shoves you into the hole*
They literally say what the veil is in the campaign… it’s the virtual space
Did calus pierce the veil?
The worst thing about Rohan's death in my playthrough, was that I fell off the platform just as the cutscene started, so I couldn't see what was happening and I just kinda hobbled around on the ground listening to it. Still not quite sure what exactly happened.
Lmao same. I was stuck watching it on the ground. But basically we were supposed to use strand to destroy the radial mast and we couldnt so he sacrificed himself to destroy it.
He self destructed and blew up the radial mcguffin
You didn't miss anything.
SAME I WAS SO FRUSTRATED!!
i didn't see a body!
The absolute most freaking PAINFUL part for me personally is the story of Neomuna. When we set foot in the Ishtar Collective structure containing the Veil, I saw the potential of an awesome Sci Fi story of how Neomuna sprouted from this, and that we were walking in the halls of a long ancient heart of a beautiful civilization. The story that could've been told with Lightfall just from that experience alone! And it pains me soooo much that we didn't get anything like that.
They essentially lifted the Terminal Dogma/Lilith plotline and setting from Evangelion but capitalized on absolutely nothing that makes it so dramatically effective and urgent.
They focused way too much on showing off strand and not enough on neomuna itself or the veil. Unless i missed it, i dont even know why threads of strand are on neomuna.
Could you imagine to use deepsight to learn Savathuns secrets and discover strand? To realize the power behind her green magic? To learn another power of darkness over the witch queen seasons (with knowing that the third darkness power is the yellow energy of the disciples, awaiting us in "The Final Shape").
Sending out the green worms to attack or trapping enemies in the green net strands of Savathun...this would have given Strand a character and atmosphere.
Cloudstriders and 80s neon are just a cheap and rushed stand in for the stuff that Bungie was not able to do because of Covid. I am pretty sure this was work of 3rd or 2nd division, because the first division was/is already at work at Final Shape.
@@Thund3rstone I’ve heard theories that even tho the Narrative Director of Lightfall was the same Narrative Director for Witch Queen, that Lightfall’s story was made by the Beyond Light team, which, no disrespect, but like said earlier, too many things just jumped over
I hate the fact that Neomuna has been a thriving civilization. It has advanced technology and probably a sizeable popularity. And we see 2 cloudstiders the only present military forces on the entire city, hell maybe planet! where is everyone? Their could have been destroyed Neomuna craft, we could have had moments where we rescue civilians. When could have found radios that have military chatter like in halo 3 and halo reach. But no we got the explication that everyone on is safe in the cloudark. I know it’s explained post campaign but still their was so much they could have done and I know it’s hard to do in a game like destiny. But I miss feeling like I’m in a losing war just barely pushing through. Instead my guardian is kicking everyone’s ass only for me to randomly be told we lost.
My biggest issue was the lack of consequence. We didn't lose a single character we cared about. Rohan's sacrifice meant literally nothing b/c it was telegraphed so hard
It also wasn't a character we cared about. We were literally just introduced to Rohan, so it meant nothing. If it was Zavala, Ikora, Caital, Osiris, Mara Sov, Elsie, or Mithrax, that would have hit harder.
Plus, it wasn't even a cutscene.
This comes down to fear of losing narrative mechanisms. The death of Cayde-6 will forever be the most brave they have been when it comes to moving the story forward. A critical error in storytelling, or writing in general, is to assume that the reader knows exactly what you're talking about. Instead, like our Guardian, we are in the dark.
Not only was it telegraphed, and a character we had exactly 0 attachment to, LITERALLY NOBODY CARED IN THE STORY
Immediately after the fact when you go to nimbus he has maybe 2 lines about it and then goes back to being a silly plucky unbelievably annoying dude
Yeah and we met him like half an hour before he dies lol. Dude was just a redshirt.
Rohan was the older cop who says 'I've only got two weeks before retirement', thereby damning himself.
Lightfall's Campaign left me with a "That's it?" feeling and its painfully sad. As you said Byf, this was THE moment for the story; and yet there were no satisfying revelations or answers, and all I was left with was more questions because they shoehorned the "need" to master Strand into the story that they left out the entire point of the expansion.
I liked the having to step back and struggle with a power, we’ve always just vacuumed up paracausal powers with no drawbacks so that was refreshing. Did it need to as large a part in the campaign? No I don’t think so
It's nothing new but still improvement over previous DLC.
Warmind DLC ending: Anna: Ok guys, this is it! *the end*
Shadowkeep DLC ending: Witness: We are your... Salvation... *In a minute, Guardian just stands in the tower without any explanation*
Great job copying peoples EXACT comment from the top comment kid.
Ur so original.
I think they should have made the strand thing a quest for the season pass and folded the seasonal story into the main campaign. We really can’t say definitively what this expansion is going to be like until 3 or 4 weeks before the final week of the last season of this years expansion is over and we sit back and go over all that has happened. Not ideal but it’s unfortunately Destiny’s design.
Yeah they did have a chance here to do something special and blew it and this story seems to be dry and empty but then again so was everything else we did except for witch queen and from an exterior perspective it was ONLY interesting because of TTK and how starved for lore we had been up to this point with how Forsaken never resolved the curse and Shadow Keep went in circles…so yeah I feel the pain, been a Halo fan since the beginning and look where it is today…I feel this, but we’ll need to see how this year plays out.
@@Genesiscoupe3000 Whar?
“Oh man, Lightfall is dropping! This a major turning point in Destiny’s story and a bunch of major questions can be answered! We might even get some bombastic cutscenes that really drive points across and give insights into the existence of the Darkness, the Traveler, the Witness, and everything we’ve been dealing with for almost a decade!”
Bungie: “kill Cabal, get Strand”
💀💀💀
Here's a few particularly egregious moments that I'm able to recall off the top of my head:
- Osiris calling the new element "strand" before anyone even knew what it was. He just casually calls it strand in a sentence about needing to learn more about it. It's the first time any of the characters gave it a name and it was even before anyone even said something that was like an analogy to strings or yarn or anything. He uses strand as a proper noun.
- As we see the shadow legion moving the Radial Mast over to where the Veil is, Rohan says something along the lines of, "They're going to attempt a link." Prior to this, we had no idea what the Radial Mast was (granted we still don't and likely never will), we had no idea what the Veil was or how it was connected to the traveler (we still don't), and we had no idea what the Witness's plan was for the Veil other than getting to it and doing something. So for a character to claim that they were "attempting a link" implies either we were supposed to already know what that meant or that character had some insights that they are not sharing.
- (this last one is extremely minor but still irksome to me for whatever reason) In the scene after finishing off Calus, our ghost is possessed by the Witness and flies up to the Veil. Caiatl insists we destroy our ghost and in response, our guardian raises a weapon to shoot the ghost. But that weapon isn't the current weapon in our equipped slot, it is the Khvostov. A weapon we haven't used since D1 and was only in D2 as an easter egg in the EDZ. Why was this choice made here? Trying to get some nostalgia?
Enemies already having Strand shields threw me off. And as for Khvostov, I honestly believe it's the ONLY gun model Bungie designed to be actually interactible in a cutscene (as in aiming down the sights) I get why it must have been limiting, because they could not use every single primary scopes on those few frames. Still, it felt weird, like a bad easter egg. It also show up on you character in the commendation screen, which is laughable.
You hit the nail on the head with the 'attempting a link' part. I felt like I missed something fundamental - I DID miss something but now I know that it wasn't me that screwed up.
@@Atypical_Typo think about the shields in another way: they have light supressing tech that is vulnerable to strand attacks. Similarly, their shields are also vulnerable to strand (if you shoot with a shield with the same element, you cause more damage and it explodes when destroyed), so it's not that they are using strand to power their shields, but their tech is weaker against it. The colors are just gameplay indicators. But besides that, all critics are valid, the story was just a filler
@@marciocruz4758 I thought the Strand element shields were also a bit off, they didn't have to throw them at us straight off the bat as we landed on Neomuna, they could have easily waited until we'd interacted with "those funny green thread thingies" even if it was as soon as we had touched the first bundle that would have been fine.
It was a small touch but fed into removing my suspension of disbelief and reminded me I was playing a game - which makes it "not cool"
@@Atypical_Typo The reason why the Cabal had strand is because when they interacted with the Veil, they found a whole bunch of these reserves. They dont understand it, they dont know how to utilise it properly, nor do they know what else to do with it. They basically scavenged this piece of unknown technomagic and slapped it into their armour because they noticed it made them a bit more resilient to damage.
The Guardian knows what it was used for and eventually through guidance and thought, almost complete mastered it though their journey inside Neomuna. Strand empowered the Guardian and gave them new pathways to decimate their opponents in every corner. The Guardians made strand their own power. Suprising even the Witness.
You hit the nail on the head! My biggest issue with the story is that we lost the most significant war ever and everyone is straight-faced "We'll get 'em next time".
It doesn't feel like we lost. It's so vague that Caitatl had to spell it out for us. We don't know the failure conditions. And we don't get a feeling that we lost. Hell, it feels so last minute that it feels like they forgot we were supposed to lose
When Zavala and ikora were both like "traveler dead rip" I felt like I missed a cutscene. How is my ghost still fine if the traveler is dead? When ghaul snuffed the light, our ghost dropped immediately.
Right? Like, Zavala isn't sure how to feel but hey atleast we got some friends.
That has to be the funniest way I’ve heard it described yet. Sav risked everything to save the traveler, and tricked the witness rhulk and countless others and had a big warning like you guys screwed up good luck. And all year it’s felt like we’re on borrowed time until light fall . Now rapustin is dead, Calus dies after becoming a disciple , nez is back, and according to our fearless leaders the traveler is gone.
Yet it feels like we’re 12 year olds playing little league after striking out and being told “you’ll get ‘em next time slugger”. This should’ve been infinity war. We lose and we lose bad. It’s like if the snap went off and then thanos dips and nothing happens except cap going “yeah we lost”.
@@iponce2 Right? I half expected us to lose Ghost and have to befriend a Neomunian fish.
I think the worst part about Lightfall's story is that after the campaign and a few post-campaign quests, I learned more about The Black Heart then I did about The Veil, which was the SUBJECT OF THE ENTIRE STORY.
I was really hoping to get insights from the traveler's side, from the horses mouth, so to speak. Bungie for some reason, feels like it doesn't need to expand on the light (I think they said in Beyond Light) which is really aggravating, considering how much we've been seeing of the darkness. Maybe they changed their mind about it and want the light being silent as a narrative thing, but not getting ANYTHING about the Veil, or ANYTHING about the light really rubs me the wrong way, especially after it being so hyped up. We still have a raid that'll probably add more story, and the seasons ahead as well, but they really dropped the ball on the veil
How would you suggest for somebody who's on a fix low income to wait for the expansion to go on sale?
Or worth the $139.99CAN ???
@@peterjohnstone7867 NOT worth it so far. I would not buy the annual pass. If you want season of the defiance, strand and neomuna along with some exotics and other events and goodies then contemplate buying the 50 USD version. But by all means, we don’t know how this story and game will progress so hold off on the 100 USD version. In my opinion, strand feels fine and neomuna looks cool enough and has some verticality and cool events and aspects. The story is meh. The exotics are cool enough. They have some busy quests tied to them. You will need to play to get all your strand fragments. There is also a raid coming with some nice looking armor (the armor was leaked so don’t go searching for it if you don’t want to spoil it). But I’d recommend seeing how the sorry and game progresses before comitting 100 USD, unless you have money to spare of course. If Destiny 2 is the ONLY video game you play, then go ahead and spend that money. Hogwarts legacy is cool. I’d recommend that game if you like the idea of fighting foes with magic. You can split the DLC + season pass (50 USD) with Hogwarts Legacy (60 USD) and you’d have some good variation.
@@obscurit_y4536 I play league of legends, Fortnite, Surviving Mars and Destiny 2(for lore)
I'm on a fixed income so $139.99 CAN is a very steep price ATM.
Have 15-25 games I haven't played on Steam yet.
I'll download one of those 👍🏾
Thanks for the reply
@@peterjohnstone7867 only way i would recommend it is if you can get it for less than 50 bucks as the deluxe edition, for only the expansion i would say max is 15 i would give
I think a small change that could have helped is having the other characters be just as confused as us. One reason I got so frustrated with the story is because I felt like I was the only one who didn't know what was going on. Plus, if Bungie is planning on slowly revealing information over the next year of seasonal content, it would be nice to feel like all the characters are learning together.
Don't worry, one of the seasons this year might just be another filler season about "time to be a pirate matey!" Oh wait.. that's not a good thing. Rip
Yep. That would have done it.
@Oscar Sevilla nope that gonna be this season but instead of a pirate you get to be a queensguard ooooo how exciting. I just absolutely love doing battle ground activities non stop
@Oscar Sevilla ....I thought the next filler season was going to be Camalot: Knights & Knaves 😮
But honestly, the next 3 seasons will all be 99% filler just like last year.
I think it’s very obvious that Strand was meant for the Witch Queen, it matches thematically and makes a lot more sense to find it within Savathûn’s memories rather than on the side of the road
It also helps explain how lacklustre this campaign is. My opinion is that this expansion was never meant to be, but since they delayed Strand they needed another expansion to introduce all of the Darkness subclasses. Lightfall was planned to be the last expansion, but they moved all of its content to Final Shape and cobbled together this DLC out of a potential cyberpunk season. This explains why absolutely nothing happens this expansion, and it’s all basically a Strand tutorial. They said we’d learn more about the fate of Destiny during Lightfall and we got nothing
If you splice together the opening and closing cutscenes in Lightfall, you’ll notice that they were originally the same scene and each character is in the exact same position in both. Nothing that happens in this expansion mattered at all, which explains how light in actual story and content this expansion was. That’s also why everything is a reskin, none of it was originally meant to be a full expansion
Couldn't explain it better. Especially since lightfall was originally supposed to be the last expansion.
this is a very fun theory that i like a lot
I agree completely, strand was supposed to be part of witch Queen. It makes sense even narratively. Savathun steals the light, we steal a power of the hive. Weaving, unraveling, tangling, these are hive terms. Constraints on needing to get content out vs the programing time to get it ready caused this.
I don't feel it deserves all the hate it is getting, but it deserves a lot of it.
Late to the party, but I agree. I also think the "flash to Neptune" part of this cut scene was either
A. Added in after they realized they needed another expansion to give the witness a reason to go to Neptune.
B. Already there and was supposed to be a small part of the entire 'lightfall" (now final shape) campaign
"The veil" feels tacked on as a "well, we need something to chase after in lightfall" and that's why we have no idea and never get an explanation as to what it is. They don't know and needed the seasons between lightfall and final shape to explain it.
Essentially, Bungie gave us half a burger for 40 to 50 dollars, and they said the other half will be available in a year.
Honestly, mad respect for not pulling your punches and giving an honest take. It's not an easy thing to do when your livelihood depends on people engaging with this content.
Very respectable
Byf strikes me as someone who understands the power of community sentiment and knows that if the game doesn’t improve, community sentiment will fall and so will player numbers making his job infinitely harder.
He’s brilliant, I hope he succeeds far beyond Bungies rotten greed
Grants to Bungie for shoveling the same sh*t down our throats for nearly a decade.
For real i usually dont comment or like videos on yt but this man deserved it good job, bungie needs to do better or maybe they just dont give a damn…
I'm convinced that the main reason this felt so bad was cause it was so slow. The training montage with Osiris should've happened in the second or third mission, max. We could spend the rest of the time saving citizens physical forms, pushing cabal back, researching what the hell the veil is, and attempting to be proactive against calus instead of always on his heels.
Exactly - the campaign should have started with a cutscene or mission where you explore Neomuna - learn about striders and the veil - THEN the invasion should have started - the players would care about the city being destroyed - the stakes would be higher
Could've just left it alone at "the training montages shouldn't have happened" lol.
@@zealobiron as well as those times we had to interact with strand to grapple up and get a stun animation. Definitely not filler.
@@zealobiron no the training montage was good, it just took much too long
I really cant get over how obvious it is that Strand was suppose to be the WQ subclass the color, the motif, the fact that there is an enemy in WQ called a threadweaver, the fact that Osiris got info about it from Sav's mind, the warlock subclass symbol looks alot like there WQ armor symbol. They legit took the subclass that was important to WQ and decided to smash it together with what is most likely the first act of OG lightfall. I also cant get over the fact that the beginning and ending cutscene are clearly the same cutscene but split in half
Bungie has claimed it was never meant for WQ but it's pretty hard to believe. Maybe a previous version of it that wasn't technically Strand was intended to be in WQ, and they're getting off on a technicality because three years ago it was in dev as 'Deepsight' or something rather than Strand despite sharing a lot of similarities.
@@atomic_wait I don't believe those mfs a WORD lmao
Did anyone else feel like there should have been more of Calus' transformation scene? Like when he gets in the pyramid bath thing. I feel like there was probably more to that scene that got cut from the final release.
yes! I was anticipating seeing the part that had been in one of the trailers. where Calus looks like crap & is sitting inside his rectangular hot tub thingy while the Witness is watching him. the blocks start to close around him... what happened before & after that?!? so confusing 😒
I feel like it's just a Dune visual reference and nothing more, really.
Thats because all of these expansions were cut from the Destiny 1 campaign and then sold to us every year as new content. You didn't know that?
There's a famous line from D1 that perfectly captures my feelings when I got to the end of the campaign, "I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain"
best part? that line was used many times in arguments for why vanilla d1 story was lackluster
@@creamyusbport4647 Destiny 1 was still infinite times better than 2 though.
😂
Sadly just completed the campaign spoke to Osiris and he referred to it as the convergence of primordial light and dark, he just said it to late
The whole story was a cheap B movie....we even have the cliche hero sacrifice himself scene and the all so classic "Antagonist screams at his villain helper and then the villain throws something at the screen" scene. Like seriously.
The strand discovery should have been a seperate storyline. A fully optional thing. First of all it was annoying to have and suddenly not have it during missions, over and over again. And secondly it felt out of place as well, with all the war(s) going on. It was a filler for missions because they ran out of ideas how to stretch the really boring story board going on.
It felt like a complete regression to the type of storytelling we had in D1Y1 “we know what’s going on but we won’t tell you”
"I don't even have time to explain why I don't have time to explain."
I think AngryJoe summed it up best in his D1 review.
“I could tell you…but I won’t!(Evil laughter”
While simultaneously pulling the same lazy story telling tropes like you've failed me for the last time starscream level bullshit. Calus felt very disappointing.
@@0uttaS1TE that's it! Cayde is the final shape! We solved it everyone. We can go home now
Except it's FAR worse. Everyone shits on the Ishtar Academy cutscene, the Stranger didn't have time to explain why she didn't have time to explain, BUT she did explain, she gave us exposition and a direction in that cutscene as well as establishing herself as a mysterious character. In fact the entirety of the D1 campaign is literally a better version of the Lightfall campaign, even down to the mysterious unexplained MacGuffin of the Black Heart, which was actually properly pulled off.
This? They just brought up the veil. What is the veil? Who the fuck knows, you don't get exposition or explanation.
Guardian: “What’s the Veil?”
Nimbus: “I don’t have time to explain to-“
Guardian: “Don’t you f$&@ing dare!”
Byf, I’ve been watching you since D1, and as a player of this franchise since beta, I couldn’t have said it better myself. Kudos to you for voicing our largely shared opinion
I'm so glad other people have the same questions. To add a few I've had:
- How does Ghost just know what Tormentors are called? What even are they?
- How does Neomuna seem to know about everything post-collapse? I get Maya Sundaresh knowing about Exo experiments, but they know about the Red War, the Hive, and were fully aware the Pyramids would return. BUT, they still think Guardians were Warlords?
- Wtf was the Witness and the Vanguard doing whilst we were on Neptune? The start and ending cutscene could play 1 after the other and they are in the same place. How long were they all just standing there in the HELM?
Like seriously, this is beyond suspension of disbelief
Your Ghost comment highlights something I mentioned to former Destiny buds asking me about the new content.
Strand is just randomly named by Osiris at one point. With subtitles on, it's a Proper Noun that comes out of nowhere in one of his old man yells at cloud (striders) moments. Then a couple sentences later, "strands" is in quotation marks as though someone is struggling to describe the ability. The whole conversation seems like the order of everything was jumbled up after the initial writing.
Doin what all politicians do, just standing around talking what to do about the problem hahaha
another question ive had and one that realllyy shoulda been answered; if the witness needed to commune with the traveller and enter it, why did they want to destroy it at the end of seraph
The Vangard, their allies, and The Witness all probably just sat down for Poker until the Player and Osiris were done bumbling around on Neptune.
The people of neomuna knowing about everything I guess could be explained that they kept an eye on earth
The main reason that Witch Queen was so good was because it answered previous questions we had and ones we didn’t have.
And had much better more interesting and unique enemy encounters
@@Shakenmike117 I actually think the *quality* of the encounters is better in Lightfall, for what they are. The problem is that Lightfall basically only has murder gauntlets, whereas nearly every encounter in Witch Queen felt incredibly unique, as you said.
@@Shakenmike117 The encounters in Lightfall were more fun from a kill everything standpoint, but is otherwise shallow in uniqueness. I wanted more Tormentor bosses, being that they should have been treated like actual bosses
@@Shakenmike117 I actually enjoyed the enemy encounters in Lightfall way better. They started giving vex spawns a standardized pattern like stormtroopers which supports them being, robots.
the reveal that the entire hive has been lied to and their entire existence is built on that lie… was crazy imo! it changed everything
Imagine if Nimbus was the rookie trying to live up to Rohan's legend especially because Rohan had little time left to live.
But then it would be Nimbus who sacrifices himself, destroying Rohan, Osiris would help him dealing with loss etc.
Instead, we got quirky dialogue...
The thing that personally gets me the worst is how they treated the final fight with Calus. I remember being so wary when Witch Queen was coming out that they would waste our confrontation with Savathuun, one of the single greatest villains we've ever had in Destiny. I was pleasantly surprised after it came out because her fight had depth, good mechanics, and some of the best voice lines and lore moments I've heard from this game. On top of that, the post-fight cutscene set up quite a lot with warning us about the Witness. It all came together to make something truly amazing by today's standards and I was hoping we would get something similar this time around.
And then we got Calus. He was a colossus who turned into a gladiator with some attacks borrowed from Rhulk. That's it. No mechanics, no story elements, nothing. Yeah, he had some lines during the fight, but they really didn't mean anything. Like I don't understand why the freaking taken hydra strike boss had a more interesting fight than the main villain of the campaign.
I thought the same thing! How is it possible that a generic strike boss is more engaging and memorable than Calus? All the build-up of lore and seasonal missions discussing Calus' visions and experiments with darkness to gain The Witness' favour and become a disciple, to end up in such an underwhelming fight is insulting. He has nothing unique to show for all that power he supposedly got. It's baffling.
@@nechoplex8654 most strikes just have better writing than destiny 2 plot. I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if more time went into their writing than dlc.
@@nechoplex8654 sounds like typical post-halo bungie
This might be a hot take, but I actually kinda like how they treated Calus in his final fight with us.
Think about everything Calus is: he’s arrogant and narcissistic. He has this vision of himself that is beyond grandeur. He not only believed that he would be the final shape…he thought he it was his RIGHT. This is a guy so full of himself that he even (stupidly) dared to talk back to the Witness when it insulted him.
In reality, Calus is a pathetic person who basically cried when he was exiled and wallowed in drunken despair on the Leviathan for ages. It wasn’t until he encountered the Witness at the edge of the universe that he saw a chance to become his image of himself.
Calus built several robotic versions of himself that were more challenging to fight because it wasn’t really him but his VISION of himself.
In the end, the Witness not only abandoned Calus, it actively worked against him by showing us conversations it had with him so we knew the plans. The Witness knew Calus would fail because Calus, for all his bluster, is weak and useless.
Instead of getting his glorious end as the final shape, he died in a one on one fight against his “favorite” Guardian who he insisted he would devour at the end of Season of the Haunted. He wasn’t even important enough to be the raid boss.
A fitting and kind of poetic ending to one so narcissistic:
The taken hydra strike boss sucked, it was just a big version of an enemy we already fight
The calus boss fight was actually challenging (assuming you didn’t even play it on legendary) but yeah the mechanics could’ve been better
Even that one random guardian being sliced up with his ghost was more impactful then Rohan's death
Its not even a random guardian its the og fireteam who is there since beginning of D1.. Look up on youtube: Rip og Destiny fireteam
Doesn't really help either that almost everyone was already expecting this guy to die. Was hoping Bungie wouldnt take this route but oh well
@@wastedv8 i know, and them being killed off so effortlessly in the first cutscene makes you think there is no messing around here, things are serious, ppl are dying... And then the campaign fails to capture that tone they set with that first cutscene
seriously, watching that sent shivers down my spine, watching Rohan die made me mad cause we just.. sat there
One hundred percent this 2 hours in you don't even know Rohan and bam dead like I didn't even care
The end got me just like Byf, I was "ok, so, I can still use the light, what exactly happened? We lost? Lost what?"
I can't believe Bungie dropped the ball like this just after Witch Queen, which was good and dealt with a great villain and a twist very well...
And everyone at the tower is like, “booohooo it’s gone.”
I’m like, no it’s not. It’s literally right there. Nothing has changed that we can see. Have we tried flying into the opening? Are we going to look into that? What was earth doing while we were off learning new abilities that we found on the street?
Think that’s the problem. This dlc was up against witch queen. Don’t think anything can touch that at this point.
@@jareddavulture58 That's definitely not the problem. Even in isolation, without comparing to WQ, there are sooo many problems with this expansion so far.
I think the campaign needed three more cutscenes (not ink blots): one to show more of the carnage and loss fighting the Witness so I can feel tension and stakes; one to show Calus himself commiting atrocities so I have a reason to hate him; and one to explain the new world building (i.e. Neomuna, The Veil, CloudArk, etc).
Also, the moment at the end, when we sit with the idea of shooting our own ghost, if they made the decision to go through with it, it would have saved the campaign for me. Lightfall needed irreversible change to occur. It needed to make the entire Destiny experience feel different going forward. Bungie has one last chance to make this right with The Final Shape.
Killing Ghost is a step that I don't think Destiny can handle.
I like this kind of story telling. There is mystery. There is a similarity to a book with the books already established. Knowing that each unanswered question will be further revealed in the next. Something to look forward to. The Veil is going to to be revealed.
I hated the trend we've had. Each season leaving nothing to be desired. A hollow experience. Every season we were left with nothing. Rasputins story ended with 19. It was as if every event was in a bubble. My greatest enjoyment out of this story was that there are things that can still be answered. My job isnt done by the end of the campaign.
But yeah I like those suggestions.
Exactly show the dark fleet arriving atleast taking out defenses we had set up
A cutscene or atleast the vanguard checking in on us or us checking in with them sure saint and osiris talking was nice but more involvement would help and would've helped too instead of at the end telling zavala what happened
This was going to be my big return to Destiny after a 2 year hiatus. Prior to that break I had been playing daily and often since the Beta for D1. After hearing my friends and reading reviews online I immediately changed my mind on returning. This was supposed to be a big climax and turning point in the story of the Destiny world. Something along the lines of Luke finding out Vader is his father or anything that scale. But instead everyone is just saying the campaign is nothing more than a strand tutorial with very little narrative progression and half the time the important stuff is happening, you aren’t even there. You’re off on Neptune playing fuck fuck games with strings.
I think my favorite part was when our ghost got possesed and was making the "link." Everyone wanted us to shoot our ghost like it was a huge issue to stop it, but then Nimbus just flies up there and grabs it AFTER it's made the link...
literally could've just grappled it with strand... the whole campaign was filled with our guardian conveniently getting disadvantaged so something interesting could happen, like Rohan sacrifice when strand conveniently stopped working, when before he had also said all known methods by the witness wont work in destroying it.
my clanmates missed Rohan due to how that encounter was structured, they died and came back out of the play area and didn't see it, but also, our gun wasn't a weapon of sorrow so we couldn't if we wanted
@@fishervt same here mumy friend was on top of the that wall in the middle while i was on the ground and he activated it thinking it would be fine then we go "exhausted" and since i was on the ground i couldnt see shit about rohans death
It was kind of ridiculous how Nimbus crashed into the ground like he'd been hit by a missile to.
@@fishervt you don’t need a weapon of sorrow to kill a Ghost btw
The difference in quality between Witch Queen and Lightfall is bigger than the difference between the Traveler and the Witness.
More like the difference between Curse of Osiris and Forsaken. I enjoy the combat and difficulty of the Legendary Campaign but holy snap the story was hyper shallow and the environments nowhere near as expansive as I expected.
This expansion was absolutely rushed. There's no way this was finished, even the cinematics looked half finished.
Can you explain the comparison? Oh, wait, no one fkn does! Speculation is the cocaine of lore gaps
The writers wanted to add a blm mural and some “hay guize” into the game
I liked it but I k8nda agree
I wanna say that the narrative teams are split. You have a seasonal team, and then a DLC team, and I wonder if there was a disconnect between those two teams in telling Destiny's story.
I mean, just look at the first few cutscenes of Season of the Defiant. Completely different tone and feel
The anticlimax of the expansion has actually made me question how much I'll play this year. After Witch Queen all I wanted to do for a month was uncover all the secrets in the Throne World. It's all I could, or wanted, to think about. I took the weekend off work for Lightfall, and I'm going to use it to finish exotic quests and farm some things. But this expansion has actually made me want to take a break from D2. I can't understand how anyone at Bungie played this and thought the narrative was good enough.
Exact same here. I am looking at a year of this as a chore. Once another game catches my interest (as always happens with gamers) what will inspire me to come back?
Same here. Also, I don't care about the story anymore.
Exactly I'm getting the same feelings I had from the warmind DLC
Same! Witch Queen got me back into Destiny after a long break. I clocked in nearly 300 hours and was really invested in the story. After this one I’ll play the raid and come back one last time for Final Shape. This really deflated my interest even though I think the campaigns gameplay was fun
I've had this feeling ever since Shadowkeep. I still played every now and again since then but this time i didn't purchase the new expansion. The price hike alone was enough reason for me to say no.
One thing I gotta say is props to the person who did sound for that bit where calus is breaking in to the facility behind us. That felt actually really cool.
Really cool, as soon I heard it while going down the only thing in my mind was "BRO WE GOTTA GO NOW"
If you listen closely you can hear him growling
The music when you finally get to the veil was incredible, it reminded me of the music from Flamerock Refuge from tiny Tina’s dlc
Which mission was this and what part did it happen cause I can’t remember?
One of the things that really pissed me off was, why didn't the cloudstriders question us at all for our need for the veil, like they knew us as warlords, so warlords just show up and want access to the one thing that basically powers your whole city and you don't even bat an eye, like tf.
Yes also nobody in the last city even comments the fact that we have fucking discovered a new civilisation at the edge of the solar system that survived for centuries without us even knowing like if it were normal
I'm glad I'm not the only one who wondered that. When Osiris emerged from his drop pod, he should have been immediately slammed to the ground with a gun to his head. The cloud striders knew Earth during the collapse meaning the bloodbath, the desperation, and a true fight for survival. An Earth in turmoil, overrun but warlords, monsters, and death. They should have been terrified of our/Osiris's presence but they just accepted it.
Shit bothered me too like Osiris had already group chat with the whole planet of Neptune or something
@M J Yep, it is ridiculous. Like half the story is missing. First thing would be to speak to the uploaded citizens of the cloud ark.. "someone explain to me what this veil is that powers your entire city, so I can asses the threat level" nope. I mean someone must mantain this power source, must have harnessed it.... they must have some idea what it is. God, I honestly can't beleive how bad it is. I can take anti-climatic on the chin.. I mean I have seen my share of it on certain tv shows I will not mention. This was beyond anti-climatic.. I mean I didn't really know what the hell was going on.
my honest take during the campaign was that they figured between us and the literal invasion they were facing, we were probably the good guys since we didn't you know.... start blowing up the city.
I love that you told your heartfelt opinion, not to defend, not to appease Bungie as a studio, but I can tell as a true fan. You are a real fan and like a lot of us, absolutely love the world and lore along with the experience of gameplay, and that lore was not given the love it deserves by this release.
"What did the Witness just do? Did it destroy the Traveler?"
"No sir... but it certainly did something. "
I was really sad when Rohan died. Not because I cared about him, but because he seemed like he could have been a really interesting character that I wish that I could have known and cared for.
I wish they killed nimbus instead
@@Lntrn.x I think that that would only work if they got rid of the 10 year expiration thing, which I think is stupid to begin with.
I feel like Osiris could have become a Cloudstrider in Rohan's wake. He didn't have his Light, and being a protector again would allow for him to stop sitting there and complaining and start being active so he can have a sense of closure.
I also feel like Cloudstriders should have had more beef with us for being immortal while they only live 10 years. It felt like a perfect setup for character tension, and it was all resolved in a few words in the beginning of the campaign, when Rohan said "Not all of us have lives to spare."
@@clayless8701 the entire plot felt rushed. We meet the cloudstriders and are immediately friends with them, no one seems to question how we can even see or use strand, we're expected to know about the entire city of neomuna and show it works, we're expected to really care about a place we've literally never heard of. Rohans death lacks impact because we don't even know the guy, not a single other memeber of the Vanguard is even consulted about strand or what it could be (no driftor no Eris etc) it's like the whole campaign is missing chunks or was rewritten or something
I felt the same. He coulda been, shoulda been, woulda been and instead they cut his throat before he had a chance.
seriously, Byf is the ONLY content creator who actually has come out and said how bad this stuff actually is. Everyone all of a sudden "oh story was never my thing anyway..." lol. good job Byf. An actual honest person.
Definitely agreed. For this to be the penultimate chapter of the sage, I’m so deeply disappointed and infuriated. Especially coming off of Witch Queen. When they announced these expansions like they did, I thought they had a clear vision of the story and how they’d wrap things up. The campaign also felt choppy like they cut out story bits for time, but they were like very important bits?
I'm just deeply disappointed that I ended up more worried about Caiatl dying in the last mission than I was for Rohan.
Because we had years with her, but like 2h with him, so who cares about it if you dont even know why, how and when
bro same
Rohan’s death seemed unnecessary when he only had 10 years to live as a cloud strider.
@@imarubronzen all of em only got 10. it was implied he was near his end. 2 years away iirc
@@ADIMIS Yeah, but his death would’ve meant more if he died trying to keep Calus from physically getting to the veil at the end.
You know, for an expansion called Lightfall I was expecting a bit of a, you know, FALL. Like some characters dying, or the city being lost or something other than "The witness has the veil thing, tune in next week for the next episode"
Like imagine if we knew what would happen if the witness got the veil, then osiris sacrifices himself to stop calus only for us to lose anyway, that might have carried some weight.
Yea catial said we lost and then we just went back to acting like everything is fine
Kinda like how in Halo Reach. The one Spartan dies destroying the Convenient ship only for the whole fleet to show up right after.
@@Barrett1alright if they did that and say removed all the light subclasses cause the traveler is gone . Your kind would cry about it. At this point I would say fuck it and cancel the series . You people will never be satisfied
@@JoshuaSigloch His name was Jorge, give the man the respect he deserves.
That hulk hogan in tinfoil died , remember we knew him for 5 minutes
This video was something I needed.
It's good to hear a notable public figure in the Destiny Lore say the exact same things I was complaining about with my group of friends. To see someone share my frustration and anger at all the missed opportunities that made up Lightfall. I came into this DLC excited for all the amazing, jaw-dropping revelations that would be revealed. My jaw did drop, but for all the wrong reasons. I was floored by how bad this story was. How almost nothing was explained. We almost get more information from post campaign PATROLS than we do from the cutscenes of the damn campaign itself!!
What hurts the most for me is the end. The Traveler has been the centerpiece of this story for ages and ages now. And now, it's "gone". Dead? Maybe, but maybe not, who knows? But there was no set up for this other than it leaving the city in Seraph, which, while a big emotional moment, wasn't enough. This was the time where we needed the Traveler to act with a clear motive, to do something that wasn't left to ambiguity. Something to make us feel a connection with it. Kind of like when Cayde died. We went on one last mission with him. This is what we needed with the Traveler and it wasn't given to us. Now the Traveler is "gone" and we didn't get a chance to say goodbye. The biggest mystery of the entire story, the one voice in the room we have heard almost nothing from, and they just throw it to the side while giving us no time with it or explanation of its motives or plans.
The only thing that gives me even a sliver of hope is that the Traveler is far too important for this to be the last time we hear from it. There are too many mysteries about this giant white ball that to leave it at that would be the most disappointing and absurd thing that Bungie could do, so I have to hope that they have plans in the future. But that means I have to have faith in the Devs, which, as was stated in this video, is now not something a lot of people are willing to do. It also means that I now, again, have to WAIT to get any of these answers while the Traveler yet again hovers somewhere and does absolutely nothing. But it's even WORSE now because now we don't even know if the damned thing is alive or not!
It's just so frustrating.
I always thought the Veil was what separated Light and Dark, or material space from the Garden with the Flower Game - and by saying "it's bridging time" and bridging it, the Witnessing Witness has traversed the bridging bridge and gained control of the Flowering Flowers, the Lighting Light and the Darkening Darkness, making this one of the smaller "bridging" expansions - like Shadowkeep before Witch Queen, where the last expansion will be the payoff.
I cannot fathom how they went from The Witch Queen being such a good point in the story to Lightfall in just a year.
Bungie has clearly allocated most of their development resources to non-destiny stuff. They’re quite literally giving the bare minimum until they can drop the IP entirely for whatever next thing they do.
Idk what you guys liked about twq, it was long and it was mechanically not fun (a game must be fun in the first place) and this one has a lot of flaws, but it's just destiny, it's just destiny and a big corporation funded game so it's sure to be shit, so I was impressed at how fun this campaign was compared to the previous ones (i don't think it saves the problems mentioned in the video though) I was expecting 10 other 3 immune phase minibosses before another unfun big boss, but not really, underleveled high diff campaign was fun and we killed fucking calus i was like damn
I’m telling you. The beginning and ending cutscenes are one cutscene. They were split apart in order to craft a story between it.
@@aidenboyle3573 You’re absolutely right, the cutscenes could be played back to back and it’s like no time has passed at all.
Witch Queen felt so good, and it brought me back after 3 years for a reason. Now I’m like……
The story feels so much more about us discovering strand, rather than actually answering the big questions and further developing plots that have been building up for the past years
Oh and the traveler is dead? but who cares lets kill some more cabals
As a story about discovering a new power, it's great! As a "beginning of the end" of the 10 year saga, it's a pile of dog mess
It's because destiny spent all resources explaining a new stupid power instead of making the original classes feel new again like with forsaken, would've been better to have new types of solar, arc and void classes like they did in forsaken than make up some bs power that makes no sense
@@tommyewen6344 exactly this! This was supposed to be part 1 of the end of the story we've been playing for almost a decade now and it failed miserably on that front. This story didn't even do any thing "Lightfall" related whatsoever.
The Darkness/Pyramids/Witness have been an absolute joke ever since they showed up in season of Arrivals. How are we supposed to be afraid of an enemy that showed up 3 years ago and has done absolutely nothing since it arrived?
@@gamerguru2924 they literally revamped all 3 of those subclasses last over the last year, the only subclass needing some change is stasis
I loved it when The Witness said "It's Witnessing time!" And Witnessed a crime scene and is now on Witness Protection
😂😂😂😂😂😂 take my like you mad lad
This pretty well explains my experience. super fun to play, much like witch queen was. but this time i got no clue whats going on in the story sense, the veil reminds me of the black heart from vanilla d1. Osiris being all rushy has "No time to explain why i dont have time to explain" energy stretched through the whole campaign.
I still find it crazy that they haven't learned anything from witch queen campaign. the way we were trying to figure out where savathuuns power both old and new came from, her history, the plot twist that she was tricked into working for the darkness and the witness through the worms, the way we use that to make her emotionally volatile, the fight to the final area and the final boss and her death which felt melancholic because she was trying to protect the traveller. like its crazy they do that last year then regress a year later. like they understood we liked learning about things in games not having it hidden from us.
witch queen was such a highlight for destiny. story and content-wise. we had so much to do. esp the end of season of the seraph, a very heart wrenching sacrifice by rasputin and the traveler leaving the city. and then this....
Lmaoo they haven’t learned anything since ttk
A lot of this did get explained and it's kinda much. Most open ended things will probably be a seasonal beat bc man there's so much shit going on.
But tldr; she wanted light to break free from her worm, since that and Sword Logic is directly tied to Darkness. Witness spoke to her since siblings grew mad with Power.
We've viewed Savathuun as a threat as all Hive Gods, yet she bode time for us til the Witness eventually would come in, causing another Collapse. Something she has already seen before. Her final trick was hiding the veil but her death made that possibility of discovery a reality.
Tldr of tldr; she was the anti hero all along, some plot points will probs be expanded later on I hope, and we fucked ourselves but fighting against the current.
What I find crazy is that people are still surprised by the constant let down by bungie. Like, bruh its been this way since 2014. When will you learn?
Yup.
It was honestly depressing to have the story fall so flat on its face. I LOVE the lore and story of Destiny. I was so excited for the culmination of YEARS of storytelling, and it just... It hurt.
Game of thrones season 8 all over again
@@CBRN-115 pls no
Where's Jason Jones, maybe he can fix the lore😉
What storytelling? I've been with destiny since first game (with breaks obviously) and i don't remember a single instance of good storytelling. The lore was good, true but the way they presented ALL of their stories was pathetic and unfocused with very minimal continuity.
I am honestly suprised how people only now realize the storytelling of this series is bad
@@mactiger98 Witch Queen was quite good.
I hope we get the answers and I hope you still keep making more content explaining lore because you helped me understand destiny than anyone else.
Btw, watching you hop up and down to look into the hall of heroes around @13:00 made me smile, because I did the exact same thing.
Oh boy I sure can't wait to learn exactly what the veil is
sorry bro, you gotta wait until the next saga for that answer
the veil the the mast!!
You wanna know? You're gonna have to pay.
Yeah it's a miss but i wouldnt give all my hopes up until after the raid. I mean it was the raid that showed us the first discipline of the witness, gave us an exotic quest that fleshed out the hive a lot more, and the raid itself explained a lot more as well.
@@casondouberly2140 that's what I'm hoping for
Three main issues with the story.
1) What is the veil? Why is it important and what power did it grant the witness? Why can't the witness just go to the veil itself?
2) Strand was shoehorned in. We just sort of gain the power. Everybody goes, "Huh. That's neat. I guess that's a thing. Anyway, the veil..." Why couldn't we see more confusion from Osiris and the cloudstriders? Why weren't the strand nexuses explained more? Osiris kind of explains darkness subclasses, but fails to really complete the thought. Also; "Feel the ebb and flow" feels so cliche. It couldn't be that our guardian has to make an effort to envision the things they are materializing or pluck things out of a quantum web. Nope. Just be a surfer dude. And then we spend the majority of the campaign focused on strand instead of explaining the story.
3) There's too little going on with the witness and Calus. Witch Queen made the lucent hive and Savathun's possession of the light a major point of the plot. We saw characters shaken to their very cores seeing the hive wield what we thought was our gift, and there were stakes with us having to reveal the truth to Savathun and defeat her to bring the traveler back to Earth. With Lightfall, we barely get to see the main characters. What was going on back at Earth while we were in Neptune? How did Zavala, Holliday, Crow, and Ikora handle the arrival of the pyramid ships in orbit? How incredibly terrified was everybody? Why does the Traveler just sit there? Why do we get so much build up with no payoff?
I think that's what really does it for me. There's no climax to the story. It just ends and we are left to ask, "What just happened and why did that matter?"
It was also backwards, like we didn't get any introduction or the city, culture or anything (not even the striders) until after you beat the campaign and start doing side missions for Quinn or whatever, and it really bothered me that all the people were just digital echos with barely any explanation
Just played the intro mission and upon arrival of the Pyramid Ships and the Witness, Zavala just sounds like he’s casually ordering you to go into a strike.
Like, where is the fright in everyone?
The Witness Almost destroyed humanity during the collapse, and they all be like when the Witness Arrives: ..”Ah shit, here we go again.” No emotion or fright whatsoever. Just another tuesday
Couldn’t have said it better
Wow just like shadow keep
Don't worry, I'm sure all your questions will be answered in the *next* dlc. Or at least you'll get new questions to keep you strung along and continuing to pay money to get the rest of the story.
My main 2 issues with the campaign are that 1 in the most pivotal battles of the franchise we don’t participate in it. Like if there was a time to introduce space combat that intro was the time to do it to wet our appetites, hell I’d even take us infiltrating a pyramid to try and bring it down from the inside or even a turret sequence,but instead I get halo infinite’d and have to watch it happen instead of playing it. 2 honestly I forgot that neomuna was in the middle of an invasion from the shadow legion, I’d have liked to have a few more missions where maybe we helped out the people by liberating some of them that were captured, or helped resetsblished some of their defenses for them, or take out some high ranking cabal, etc. just something that made it feel more like we were doing our part to help out the people instead of just dicking around with strand most of the time.
I also want to mention that I keep seeing the khovustave we see it in the cutscene when the witness is about to use our ghost to link to the veil and when u go into the accommodation tab after a strike or something like what’s that about if ur gonna bring back the exotic version of the gun do it but it feels like place holders that they never bothered to change it
The fact that we didn’t even see the witness and the traveler leave in the end and we had to find out what happened through text with Zavala and Ikora is wild to me. Also, the big 4 sit in the helm with the curtains up during this whole things is even wilder to me. Old habits die hard I guess
That's because the cutscenes seem to have original been just one cutscene. The shutters go down, and maybe in a minute or so they come back up.
Also the traveller didn't leave, it's still up there with the pyramid portal thing. You can see it on the map. The dialogue from zavala and ikora should probably be just completely discarded because it makes no sense at all. The traveller can still bless the "enemies of humanity" if a ghost happens to want to do that. We still have our light so it's clearly not dead, and zavalas whole "oh no we lost.. but there's a new hope now" is almost as bad as Nimbus just exclaiming the veil is safe now
@@HoneyDoll894 Thinking back on it now, I wonder if the dialogue was meant to be the closing of The Final Shape? It makes zero sense otherwise.
@@patchworkcat6932 yeah honestly I almost think thats the case
@@HoneyDoll894 The dialogue seems to imply that whatever the Witness did it didn't exactly kill the Traveler, but it seems to be incapacitated and nonresponsive in some capacity. Though obviously not dead because we still have the Light.
Where is the text?
As a somewhat casual player when it came to lore, Witch Queen had me binge-watching Byf lore videos to fully grasp the full story. It turned me into a full fan and got me SO much more interested in the full lore of the game. Was LightFall fun? Sure. But it didn't deliver on story for me. I agree with so much of what you said!
I'm sorry for your loss. Not the best time to enter the franchise, apparently, story wise. Feels like it was cobbled together by a bunch of 8 year olds with fortune cookies.
@@gregbrown3082 Oh, I've been playing for a few years! I've played through all the campaigns, but the seasons leading up to Witch Queen and the Witch Queen campaign itself turned me from occassional player into full fan. Soooo yeah, this was a let down as a follow-up.
@@DiscoLiz my mistake! Some of the lore is just... So rich! It makes you wish the team writing weapon descriptions, and some of the Bray story... Had command of the flagship narrative for Lightfall.
I feel so bummed for everyone that had your experience. It's like discovering Game of Thrones after Season six only to be hit with 7 😔
@@gregbrown3082 absolutely! I feel like this was meant to just be a piece of The Final Shape and they forced it to work. Fingers crossed they reevaluate and take the constructive criticism for the final chapter of this saga!
"How did we go from Witch Queen to this?"
That sums up everything.
I feel about Lightfall the way I feel about watching a sports team lose by a narrow margin on a series of small errors. Like this expansion is a few paragraphs of dialogue and maybe an extra mission or two from being great stuff. Slightly more set-up for the stakes, slightly more strength in the reactions, slightly more focus in the marketing on what we were actually getting... then the reaction isn't what it is right now.
They marketed this expansion as having lots of pay off moments but instead it feels like we’ve gotten even more setup, there are so many threads and unanswered things that I’m worried for the final shape. I didn’t think at a normal campaign length the final shape will be Able to fully tie together all the threads without it feeling like every single scene is lore exposition that goes on forever
Nice 360 profile icon,.
Haha...*THREADS*
@@boom-jr8vi looks like we need to use strand irl to figure this out
The marketing team deserves a raise because they made this turd of a story look like a delicious piece of chocolate
@@sombrashadow0013yeah cause the marketing team had to use the only two important cutscenes to show it off. Minus the purple door you can gather the whole story.
The best part of the campaign was the Strike where Nezarec shows up on comms.
My favourite part was Nezarec revealing he's a Batman fanboy.
yeah basically, my hopes were high for some loregasm moments like in WQ where we learned the hive were lied to.
But here, our biggest "loregasm" was that nazarec is still around, which many already assumed.
Most of the storytelling problems could be helped by simply having more of an 'orientation' phase to Neomuna between mission 1 and 2. As of now, you land on Neomuna, meet Cloudstriders and instantly befriend them, then mission 2 you're off chasing the Veil (which everyone is already aware of and on the same page about). If there was a phase between those missions where you run around with Rohan, receive specific exposition about why and how everyone exists in the Cloud at the moment, then receive a specific definition of what the Veil is, what it does, why it's here, and why Callus wants it.
In short, Bungie just really doesn't do beginnings outside of En Medias Res action prologues. Halo 1? Practically starts in the middle of Captain Keyes' sentence. Halo 3? Has skipped a day or two after Halo 2's cliffhanger. Destiny 1? Resurrected in a parking lot. Marathon? Starts you off right in a hallway. Marathon 2? Starts with badguys in the room with you -- so it's a long-running issue. Halo 2 is about the only one that starts at a 'natural' start point and eases you into things before the explosions start happening.
One of the biggest gripes I have is with the title Lightfall. What do they mean with that because the traveller is still here, our light is still here and everything else practically the same. I was expecting something along the lines of Tormentors stealing our light during the campaign, we find strand in a more meaningful, organic way and learn to fight the tormentors with it up until the point we have "mastered" strand and then going on to calus but can't defeat him quite yet and he is getting pulled away with the witness into the veil portal. Also it feels like the whole campaign has been reset sometime during the development period and this is the result.
A lot of people will have a lot of things to say about the campaign as a whole, so I just want to highlight something small and that was when Osiris tried to talk to Sagira, that was such an unexpected gut punch. More moments like that please
There were some great moments, but the over-arching story really didn't hit very hard. And anything with Nimbus in it felt very corny, especially for a story about the second coming of the apocalypse.
This was the only Osiris moment that was actually played by Osiris. The rest was just played by angry old man.
@@benamende5897 I don't know how many times I muttered STFU to Osiris whenever he opened his mouth during the campaign.
The fact that we saw what most of the campaign had to offer in the trailer and no major shock factors within the gameplay itself it's really something.
Honestly… yeah. Pretty much every cutscene was shown in a trailer and the biggest “reveals” of the campaign happened in the first two or three missions. The Witness has made connection with the Traveler, Calus is a Disciple (which means nothing because we have no idea what being a Disciple does or means) and that there’s this thing called “The Veil” that the Witness wants
@@Asheslit Witness wants a veil to be able to marry the Traveler. Simple! /s
Literally didn’t see a cutscene they didn’t use in the trailer. Even the final cutscene was in the trailers.
Did everyone forget that Destiny's original story was scrapped? They are making everything up as they go. Nothing has ever made sense. Its just a skinner box lol
Didnt watch the trailers, they didnt have that much of a wow factor anyway.
At least the knot on the belt around the mask is tied correctly. Nice little detail.
I finally finished the campaign last night. I was having fun with it, and the first part reminded me of some classic Halo campaign especially ODST. However getting Strand just took up too much time narratively. We should have temporarily received the subclass maybe up to two times, had the Rocky training montage with Osiris then do that mission where we fight the vex and have the class unlocked permanently.
Was I supposed to feel bad about Rohans death like it was a war story? Because I physically cannot I only knew the guy for like 15mins I shed more tears listening to the audio clips at cayde’s memorial in the tower.
He also told us right before he died that he was about to die because he was approaching the end of his life-cycle.... so he kinda just died a few days earlier than he would have otherwise, with the benefit of dying a martyr.
Nimbus gay ass didn’t feel bad either oddly enough.
“Cloudstrider Rohan sacrificed himself to prevent the Witness from using the Radial Mast to seize the Veil.”
Is a sentence that means exactly the same thing to Destiny players and non-Destiny players.
this is actually so true. I loved the expansion from a gameplay perspective, but god damn. The story literally left me with more questions than answers.
Fucking facts!
@@Psyshimmer yes yes exactly and not in a good interesting mysterious way either. Just in a dumb poorly done way.
I’ll admit that when they were making a whole thing of getting used to strand I actually liked that because it felt like I had to really learn to use it properly. But all of that went out the window when I realized that was the entirety of the storytelling in the dlc. I was chasing something that apparently has value even though I have no bloody clue as to why it does.
Thank you. I’ve been trying to find the words and you did it perfectly. I feel like a bitter empty after taste after the campaign. So many unanswered questions: Like, what’s the vail, where are the actual inhabitants of Neptune if they’re only projections in the city, why is Calus obsessed with cups, if the ghost was so important, why did the witness a slice one to ribbons in space….the list goes on….
Above all else, I’m terrified that I’m gonna leave The Final Shape feeling like I wasted hundreds of dollars and nearly a decade of my life being invested in this story
This though, I've been worried about this myself since Beyond Light. Since BL I've felt like there are obvious opportunities for plot points and answers and more mysteries but Bungie just bungles it time and time again. I've got 0 drive to play lightfall. I told my husband when the trailers came out, "it feels nothing like a destiny trailer, I feel like I'm watching something entirely different and I don't care for it" and it's remained true. I've spent YEARS and hundreds of dollars to follow a story I thought would be well rounded, full of secrets to discover and would coherent at the end. But it's really not shaping up that way 😐
Its like the game of thrones feeling
@@IXONERU yeah! In a way! All build up and hype and lore....for the most disappointing ending in existence.
If you were entertained, it wasnt a waste.
Gaming is fun but you have to be able to walk away when you are tired of a specific game. Its the feeling of 'all the wasted time' the keeps you in it. But leaving doeant have to be permanent. Skip a season or two and if you dont miss, you'll aways have the memories.
@@QuietQuin with me I spent my middle school years and high school years playing this game, I’m a freshman in college now and I feel like I wasted so much of my childhood on this franchise after this
One thing I don't see coming up that often that needs to be said.
Narratively, Calus deserved better. He's been around since D2 Year 1 and all we got from him is "Gah, I'm Calus, I like my gold stuff. Har Har Har. I do but don't like the Witness." And that was basically it. He did nothing until the very end. Meanwhile, Savathun actually got off her ass and did stuff while we were doing our thing. Calus just sat in a chair while his Legions did stuff and then he showed up in the final mission to take all the credit.
Of all things that was probably the most narratively accurate thing here. Calus is just like that, a selfish lazy brute who only did what he was told out of fear. He wants to be the last thing in all of existence and he disdains the witness because he knows that without the power he receives he can never achieve that goal.
That’s Calus’ personality and it’s been that since year 1. He’s lazy, greedy, weak and pitiful. He’s been overthrown and sought the witness for any sort of power he could possibly get. The witness granted it and used him as a pawn. The witness and Calus are alike in their selfish determination.
@@obscurit_y4536 I don’t understand why does everyone say calus is weak never made sense to for a weakling he sure has a lot of power even when he was overthrown it’s not like he was challenged to a 1v1 by ghaul or his daughter it was a bunch of people who ganged up on him
@@ivory867 Yep. He was a Tyrant that had a lot of loyalty.
Someone hit the chronicon(chronomican?) sauce a bit hard lol
It makes me really wonder if there are 2 teams, one that handles expansions, one that handles seasons.
Or 2 teams that alternate projects as the work thru an expansion.
Like team A works on story for expaniins, team B is prepping and working on the next season of expanion, and it's alternated?
Like how do they go from where we were end of last season to this?
Going along with a few points you made in the videos with my take on it and basically agreeing with all of them and my thoughts on what they could've done/can do to fix or touch up on concepts in the story as a whole.
1. First and foremost, definitely seems like they had to rush this with the idea of what they showed off during the Witch Queen reveal/brekdown streams that Lightfall was SUPPOSED to be in the Last City but they moved it to Neomuna for the sake of having to find something somewhere else so it would make sense we never knew it was there. That's fine, but I feel like it should've been in the Last City more so and then the seasons introduce the idea that the Witness needs something to fully win over the Traveler that isn't the Traveler itself and still sends Calus, but the seasons are us hindering him at whatever front he's at or him disappearing for a couple of them before reappearing telling us this place he's at is very important. Not to mention, like you brought up, the big bad just being offed in a story mission instead of a big endgame level event like a raid, something Bungie does way too often. Taken King did it right, why can nothing else?
2. The Veil could've been so much better if we got snippets of dialogue about what it is from everyone. Cloud Striders, Neomuna scientists helping out during this, Osiris seeing Strand and making connections literally and discovery wise, even between Calus and the Witness. "Find the Veil." "Ok." And Calus just knows what that is? It's on a city on Neptune, cool, got that, obvious. But how does he know what he's looking for?? Not to mention there is no explanation to why it is what it is, how it's a battery, or why the Witness needed it. Another point on connections that could've been made is with it and Strand and Neomuna as a whole, that I'll go into with this next point about the Strand story focus.
3. Strand being shoehorned in as a new power to use and not any origin or reasoning behind it was a massive misstep in every category. It makes sense us wanting to find and master this power to overcome our enemies preparing for what we already knew was a great way to validate it, but it definitely took up way too much time over other parts, like the Veil. What they could've done for Strand is use their explanation of it to link EVERYTHING together, literally what Strand is about, so even better. Why haven't we seen it everywhere else, and why can only we and Osiris seen it? Because the Veil could've been used for the CloudArk tech since it's about taking consciousness and projecting it and connect everyone with the city, and there have never been Lightbearers on Neptune, so no one has seen them before. And because of the Veil, that's the reason why it's so very clearly seen because of what it is and what people have used it for in the CloudArk stuff. But they never explained Strand or the CloudArk or the city or anything as a whole beyond "Strand is like the thread of all minds that connects everything to one whole existence" and that is ALL we got.
4. Everyone treats the entire climax to the story as either another win or the end of existence as a whole and completely ignore everything that went on. Like you said with Ikora, Zavala, and Nimbus, none of their reactions fit (although that definitely fits Nimbus considering what they were doing after we beat Calus, but I'm not diving into that mess) and none of them feel like they were made for what we got. Vanguard acting like the end of the 10 year plan happened and Nimbus acting like we won and nothing bad happened at all, like they saved Ghost BEFORE he created the link.
5. And on top of that, how can the Witness control our Ghosts? What's the connection there, did he make them with the Traveler and then they broke up and the Traveler took them all to use with the Light so he knows how they work? Can them being pure Light allow him to take hold easier compared to Guardians/Awoken/Hive/etc. because they care both Light and Darkness capable and since it's US that channels the Darkness around us, not our Ghost? And why doesn't he just get rid of all our Ghosts and make every single barrier he has ever had vanish entirely? There's no reason to consider that we aren't the biggest hurdle to every plan he has because of what we have done to stop it constantly. Yeah, it's all been worthless basically every season because it just makes it so we don't lose, but we still manage to halt what he was making, especially here. Yes, our being there is what made the Veil link, but if we WEREN'T there, he would've had it MUCH sooner because the Striders likely would not have been able to do it themselves.
All of this just added up too much too quickly because of how quick the story felt because of the aforementioned Strand focus limiting other potentials and explanations. One minor change I want to get out there that wouldn't really change is Rohan's death. I think it's fine and works for the story, but I think it's a little bit of a cop-out to make us feel bad for not being able to control a new power. Yes, it's my faultI couldn't control a new thing immediately. What should've been done is not him blowing himself up, but the game actually forcing us to use our Strand to destroy it while he's still there so we HAVE to live with the fact we had to kill one of our allies we just made and that he willingly let it happen because he trusted us after such a short time despite all the stories of the warlords and us being the first contact of a Lightbearer he had. It would've made his death hit so much harder because while we knew it was coming, WE were the ones who actively had to do it.
A smart explanation for the Veil would've been that it was actually a Darkness artifact Savathun stole from the Witness and hid on Neptune. The Neomuni would've found it and used it to create their city and CloudArk not knowing its importance. The Witness might need it because it can bolster them enough to crack open the Traveler, and we could use it instead to shield ourselves because the Darkness cannot fight itself. And it could explain Strand too, because they could've said the approach of the Pyramids has aggravated the Veil, causing its energy to manifest wildly throughout Neomuna as Strand.
Bro just made a campaign better than bungie
@@Johnny-zp5dm yep lol
This one paragraph is narratively superior to the roughly 6 hours it took me to finish this expansion lol
this is beautiful
You’re hired!
So let me get this straight. The witness literally came to sol in season of arrivals (which was a dope ass season btw), gave us stasis in beyond light, parked it for 3 or so years witnessing sol while knocking back a cold one, then finally shows up at our doorstep, opens a transdimensional doorway using the veil, refuses to elaborate, then goes through and fracks off.
This was supposed to be bungie’s infinity war, and all we got was infinity scuffle with an anemic discount Thanos. The witness was more intimidating and interesting back in shadowkeep when it transported us to the black garden and took our form to talk to us. My theories were so much better than what bungie delivered. Wow
Oh we def got the ol MCU treatment of "goofy ass dialogue while the world is ending".
Witness wasn't in sol till now. He was off in deep space till lightfall.
@@Mechimmortal diD wE jUsT lOoSe?!
“Well, that just happened!” - Nimbus (probably)
They wanted to make an Infinity War, but we got a Multiverse of Madness and Quantumania.
I finished the campaign last night and I’m so glad I’m not alone in this. I felt like I was already suppose to know what the veil was and I was just suppose to go along with it. It’s like every time we almost got an explanation, nothing was given.
The way you started this video is why Im a fan. " I just need to talk" super relatable
The first mission of Witch Queen was filled with intrigue and mystery and "wtf" moments
The first mission of Lightfall is "Remember the key card mechanic from Duality and the Leviathan raid? Do that"
????
Witch queen first mission is “Remember Wrath of the Machine where you carry heavy mechanical parts? Do that”
@@jayla6499 Yes, however there was more to it than that. THe craziest part of it was a Tormentor coming in, and we know exactly why it's here, because the Witness gave them to buff up Calus' forces. Hive Guardians we didn't know other than Savathun had the Light and that it seemed impossible, then we got straight into the Throne World and see nothing Hive related at all. Nothing made sense considering our knowledge of everything before contradicting all of this entirely.
I was at maximum copium levels that Calus was gonna expo dump info on the veil. This campaign really does remind me of the D1 vanilla campaign where we just kinda do whatever we're told and everyone knows what's up but us
that's a funny thought, Calus does seem like the kind of character to start fucking over his teammate after he loses by revealing info.
that minus d1 feeling of Mistery and hope for the future of the game :(
The thing that especially sucks about this whole situation is that the story is one of, if not the reason I play Destiny as much as I do nowadays. The last couple years of seasons have had very good storytelling to the point where that is why I want to come back every week. When D1 came out, back when I was 13, I had time to no-life the game. I had time to invest in aspects of the game that weren't the story (partly because there wasn't much of one). But today, I don't have that time. I've been able to invest in this game through the story. That's why this campaign feels like such a slap in the face. I really hope Bungie learns from all the feedback they're getting.
Yeah dude. Pound it bro. This expansion is gnarly. - Nimbus
Two big missed opportunities for me was not actually showing Neptunian people aside from the cloudstriders (makes it hard to feel the weight of a city under siege) and the lack of any dynamic between characters, like there isn’t really a mentor and student vibe between Rohan and Nimbus or our character and Osiris even though that seems like what they wanted
It was pretty lame, but also wholly explained.
What annoyed me is the radio says the citizens should take up arms like how cool would that be flying around the city as bullets fly from the citizens the cabal and the vex instead they all live in a “virtual world”
@@bigboss425 they’d get psion sniped to shit💀
@@obscurit_y4536 ik thats why you make them invincible they dont have to be true enemies they could be like the robots from that one lost sector on europa
Should have shown people dying, the cities buildings being destroyed.
This video makes me feel extremely validated. At the end of the story I was distraught, I was so deeply disappointed I felt like it was me being too critical. The fact is we're all emotionally attached to this story, and to see an almost Game of Thrones level of fumble is.... like you said "Heart Breaking" .
They fumbled worse than game of thrones. A complete and utter failure.
@@danperkins4781 True and they fumbled it years ago, just took a while for it to sink in to the rabid fanbase.
I think comparing this to Game of motherfucking Thrones is nothing short of hysterical. Are there flaws? Yes. Are they major? YES. Is this anything close to Game of Thrones' final two seasons? That's fucking insane.
@@possiblyarose1397 You're right at least the final 2 seasons of game of thrones had production value. Also strange calling someone's point hysterical when you weigh in by swearing, agreeing with the point, then back to swearing to decry insanity.
@@Smratboy bro did not swear 😱 (this fully invalidates their point)
Everything here that was said....totally agree. My fireteam and myself were asking he exact same questions as the campaign progressed. So many missed opportunities and it seemed as a quickly put together Strand course.
I agree with this, and it feels like such a big miss. Another third or so of campaign missions (so 12 total) would have been good - explain what the Veil is, why it would be bad for the Witness to gain access to it, what does the Radial Mast do (2nd most egregious Plot Macguffin of the expansion) and just a bit more time with Rohan so that his sacrifice matters. Might make the campaign long enough to take the focus away from the discovery of Strand.
The gameplay of the campaign was very fun for the most part, but it's just a shame that the storytelling wasn't there.
this really felt like beyond light 2.0, using the darkness was really the main focal point of that expansion and it worked well, it made sense that we had to claim stasis to defeat Eramis who already had stasis,fight fire with fire fight darkness with darkness, so much of this expansion was Osiris telling us that we NEED strand for… reasons? We should have fully unlocked strand half way through the campaign so they could have shifted the narrative focus to what was actually going on, but they didn’t.
strand was even optional in the final fight
The only reason we needed strand was because of the paracausal supressors and they don't even appear in the final mission omegalul
Yes
Strand is new and paracausal disrupters don’t affect it. Honestly, the campaign is easy with strand once you got fragments going. Suspended the tormentors makes them a cake walk.
@@lil_question7449 Hell not only was it optional, I personally didn't use it because it simply wasn't as strong as the build I was using, so it isn't even like I "needed" to use it in the final fight.
You know whats more strange?
One of the sidequests we do to complete rohan's notes, we enter the black garden and the characters discuss the black heart and reveal that it was another veil.
Like... are veils essentially things that affect the traveller cause the black heart was killing the traveller in D1, so what does this veil do exactly?!
Imagine that after 8 years the black garden is finally revealed to just be a thing that does something and that's all you'll ever know ✌️
the veil might have been holding back the witness's powers. in the end cutscene SPOILERS AHEAD
the witness when its opening that portal. it looks like orange energy moving throughout its body. the link the veil made to the traveler probably enhanced the witness in some way. the veil was stopping the witness from opening that thing on the traveler.
I assume the veils are gateways to other planes of existence. I haven't done the quest you're talking about in specific but I assume it's a separate veil from the one in the campaign. The veil we were after was tied to the light most likely due to Ghosts' comments about it giving the same energy as the Traveler. Whereas the one in the quest you're talking about is likely tied to the darkness as it took you to the black garden, a plane of darkness.
No, it's not another veil ..it was an attempt to make a copy of the veil
Its the heart of the traveller. Witness literally says in witch queen (your pale heart holds the key) and now he is in the Traveller. The black heart was a failed attempt
I'm glad I'm not the only one who was wondering what the veil even is the whole time. I totally thought I had accidentally skipped a cutscene explaining why the veil is such a big deal.
Like the what the infinity gauntlet in avengers infinity war is was explained to the audience so the build up and tension in avengers infinity war was so satisfying and understood as a great defeat.
The rohan death reallyyyy bugged me, i wish they had done a switch on us, as in nimbus dies instead of rohan, that way there is more time for rohan to develop and also opens up a plot line of how he deals with carrying on the cloud striders or leaving neptune to be guarded by us instead. Everyone of my fireteam picked up on him going to be killed off, everyone of us found nimbus to be a bad character, i'm just disappointed in the clod striders so much
Honestly this felt like a seasonal story without the weekly lockouts and that really hurts
That is actually how I felt.
bullseye
THANK YOU! This is exactly how I felt, even halfway through the campaign I kept telling myself...there has to be more to this, please let the final mission blow me away...