Destiny 2 - WHAT THE VEIL IS! Paracausal Connection, Pale Heart and the Truth Revealed
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- Опубліковано 2 бер 2023
- The Veil.. A mysterious object linked to the Traveler and main focus of Lightfalls campaign. The Witness needed it to achieve something with the Traveler.. Perhaps start this final shape. Today we are going to explain what we know on the veil and the secrets that may await inside the Traveler. Additional info is revealed in quests and lore and let's dive right in.
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“Destiny 2 What Is The Veil”
“Destiny 2 The Veil”
“Destiny 2 Lightfall Story”
“Destiny 2 Veil Explained”
Thanks for watching! - Ігри
Today we discuss the Veil! WHAT WE CURRENT KNOW from the Campaign, exotic LMG quest, lore and community speculation! We don’t have all the answers.. Leave your theories below!
Edit: patrol dialogue from the news reporter explains how the veil made a connection to the Travelers pale heart
Imho this campaign is a setup for a season where we resurrect Savathun, she's the only being in D2 universe that can give us some answers about the Veil, Witness and it's plans. And by doing so we'll finally have a fragile alliance with the Lucent Hive, the only race we're missing.
I am so confused about the Cloud riders. How can there be cloud riders when all of population of neomuna has gone full matrix?
i hope they will expand on the veil and light and darkness in the current season and the next ones but also i hope they'll build some lore around osiris especially. after not being able to be part of the action he was frustrated without sagira, i hope that they'll make him go a bit mad to the point where he builds a new ghost or something, or uses some pouka to fuse it with light and make himself a new ghost. also there was some line of dialogue from the exotic machine gun mission where there were 2 characters speaking, could that be savathun and nezarec speaking to each other after they betrayed the witness?
@@wp1432 The people are just temporary since the attack in the CloudARK uploaded. Their bodies are sleeping in safe areas of the city in cryopods. When the attack ends their minds are going back into the Body, because this was mention in the story
@@phnx_tom5400 thanks. Cuz this was seriously missing
Now that we can see the bigger picture, it’s pretty clear the light chose savathun, she already saved the traveler once. Savathun was only an enemy to us and the witness, not the traveler. Seeing as how she can be resurrected, it would be cool to have to revive her as a last resort and have cabal, fallen, and hive on our side against the witness in the final shape.
Vex: I missed the part where that's my problem.
@@cor7ger7g43 we have Asher so we will have some vex too
Great thought!
The Hive, as in the Lucent Hive maybe. Because the Wrathborn is obviously still on the Witness side, and under Xivu's control.
I've been thinking about this since WQ. Savathun will most likely return, not as a friend but as an ally, with its Luscent Hive and go against the witness.
The fact that I have to watch this to understand this makes me feel like I need to re evaluate what good story writing is
It's not good "story," per se. It may be a good or interesting concept, but a good *story* is one that you understand at least on the sruface during your first go-around, but gets better and deeper with each successive re-telling. I could play the Destiny campaign from beginning to end several times, and without the effort of people who dig through the lore, I still wouldn't have a damned clue what's going on.
Wait theres a story???
The story is great, but the downside is stretching it across seasonal missions week after week. If this were a movie/tv series, then we would definitely have a more coherent storyline.
@@maltdairy2164 I have a long list of media that are popular or even considered classics because they are very confusing on the first go-around and a few that continue to be confusing with re-telling. Maybe mystery and confusion is exactly the kind of stuff I like in the media I enjoy the most because I think it's boring to have everything laid out for me with no guess work. I know it's not for everyone, just like searching into the text-based lore isn't enjoyed by everyone, but disliking how something is told doesn't make it bad.
It's good storytelling, it's just a slow drip of information that's sprinkled throughout the content. You have to look around a bit to find it, but it DOES tell you. It appeals to the kind of TV viewer who likes picking apart things and theorizing. If it was spoonfed to you directly all the time, it'd be criticized as on-the-nose and clunky.
The light being a Terraformer makes sense because when will kill beings of darkness it sprouts a tree and calus’s last stand in the campaign the veil sprouts roots around us when we enter the middle.
Same with tormentors and rhulk
all disciples of the witness sprout those trees. yeah the traveler is the gardener. also we know it terraforms coz thats like the first thing you learn in destiny when the traveler arrives (it terraforms all our planets)
@@raven-0621That stuff is really freaky
Our light is not what does that to enemies
the travelers roots and the roots we see come from disciples are different
I just noticed something when I was rewatching the cutscenes. In the first cutscene of Lightfall when you see the Traveler shooting its beam and you can see inside it. There is a round object in the center. That object looks like The Veil.
I think the Veil was literally a part of the Traveler. What ever the Witness wanted to do with the Traveler it couldn't do because the Traveler wasn't whole. Savathun may have tricked the Witness in to believing the Veil was destroyed and the Traveler to be dormant/dead. It would explain the huge chunks of the Traveler in the EDZ. It also may explain the Black Heart and Nezerec in the VexNet. He was trying to get the Sol Divisive to recreate the Veil. It was only after the Travelers blast at the end of D2 did the Witness realize he had been fooled.
Gonna be interesting to see how they develops the witness. It doesn’t seem like he is necessarily cackling meniacle villain but rather someone who is singularly obsessed with achieving the final shape.
The way the lines were delivered it sounds like the Witness felt like he was "mercy killing" the traveler, kind of strange if you ask me
The Witness is Sithis
Possibly she you heard some of the dialogue with caluas when he bleeds the witness sounds almost female
@@TomabTT. I don’t think the witness has a gender they always reference it as “it”
Like Thanos. Not necessarily have selfish pure evil ambitions
Yin is negative, dark, and feminine, Yang positive, bright, and masculine. Their interaction is thought to maintain the harmony of the universe and to influence everything within it. My theory is that yang (The Traveler) rejected its darkness and made itself all Light by tearing out its pale heart. But Yin (The Witness) is half of its being. There is an imbalance in the universe because light and dark must be in balance, and the Traveler tried changing the rules. The Traveler itself is incomplete without the pale heart. Where as the Darkness is complete. Together they make Yin and Yang. The Final Shape.
This would be incredible.
I like this view
I really like this concept and honestly would love for this to be the case
Honestly, that makes a lot of sense
Can't be that concept because Bungie has been rejecting gender balance and set roles, it's all over the characters they've been spitting out since D2 started, and only ramped up in the past several years.
Theres also a line from Nezarec in the Unfinished Bussiness quest (if you have his helm or glaive on) and Nezarec mentions Savathun hiding the veil in her betrayal and implied he (Nezarec) also wants the Veil.
I’d imagine naezarec wants to kill off the veil due to all the rage and pain he talks about.
Im 90% sure that we will see nezarec in the raid
Any idea where I can get a full recap of the dialogue? I ended up learning about the whispers right after I finished the mission and every replay I had after didn't have any dialogue so I am very curious what it was I missed.
Great video. Nice to see a constructive video instead of byf weord rant.
Maybe there was some switching stuff around happening at bungie and maybe that caused lightfall to seem a bit like filler content but I still trust that the overall story will end in a satisfying way. It will tie a neat bow on the lesson they want the saga to tell...
A detail from the portal scene. In the shot from above of the witness entering the portal, you can see that the portal is absorbing light and darkness from each side. Perhaps the portal is the Veil's true form, quite literally the border between light and darkness.
That very thin line.
@@zeraphphalanx2794 And we might learn that supporting the witness is possibly a good idea, furthering the question of "which side we are on"
@@ShutInCuber Seeing how the Darkness was the one that almost destroyed humanity, and corrupted the Hive. I would say that the Darkness is actually the enemy.
@@cainabel6356 if the witness did that in order to save many more planets and lives, would trying to kill us be justified?
For the Veil being tied to the Traveler and a byproduct of strand actually makes sense, remember in the Unveiling. The Gardner sought cooperation with the Winnowed, even as they fought, but the Winnower seeks only to win by any means. Maybe the Veil is the culmination of the idea of coexistence between the two forces?
If the gardener was seeking balance with the two, what if the witness isn't representative of the winnower at all, but what if the witness is actually representative of the gardener trying to bring both forces in balance together?
@@RandomThingamajig maybe, Savathun did say in 2 truths 2 lies iirc that the Witness was part of the species uplifted by the traveler.
This makes me feel like the witness isn’t the winnower at all and the traveler was somehow both and the veil being the winnower and once it uplifted a race to go and use the same powers it had over both which then it decided to take the role of one force and sought out to achieve the final shape it had seen. I also feel like the witness was some kind of hivemind race but that’s only because of the way it talks about itself, always using we and group type of subjectives about itself.
@@michaelmarsh3501 The Winnower is the entity that introduced Darkness into the Universe. The Witness merely "wears it like a cloak and gives it a wicked shape". I've never seen any reason to believe they're one and the same. The Winnower is watching the game play out to see if its philosophy is victorious and correct, the Witness is a person within the game trying to reach a certain ending.
If light and dark were once in unity, then that means that the "final shape" was already a thing before.
The traveler is a mindless physical force, and the darkness is a thoughtful shapeless entity with a voice.
The final shape is probably Harmony. Life and death.
Denying life is bad, denying death is bad. Appreciating it is good.
I think the witnesses goal is to remove the cycle of life and death from the universe, in the final Shape there is no light and there is no dark as light and dark are united into one force or maby they were always one force, like a river. And when this river split it created light and dark.
And guardians deny both 🤝
The travelor decides who lives again & who doesn’t. It promises life but keeps dying cause of the physical form. What if there is a whole species of witness that the travelor keeps inside & selfishly chooses who is rebirthed In the light & who’s sole is trapped
@Jamie Middleton which is confusing because lore states in the beginning it was light and darkness, well the gardener and winnower. Also what if the final shape is the future we got a glimpse of in the infinite garden? It was dark with a sliver of light in the horizon
@@jamiemiddleton5587 I agree- I think it's like the Synthesis ending in Mass Effect 3
Anybody else think the veil and the awoken share a lot in common? I swear I remember Mara talking about "piercing through the veil" when we have gone into the ascendant realm in the past. They also like talk about "bending the fabric of reality" and all that jazz which sounds a lot like how strand works/is (strand being a "byproduct" of the veil). Our ghost stated that the veil feels a lot like the traveler and Mithrax (idk if I spelled his name right) has an interaction with Mara in the new season that goes something like "her light powers will help" "my powers are not of the light". Also, the veil needed both light and dark to make the connection right? Weren't the awoken originally created in a clash of light and dark? Finally, the colors man. The veil colors remind me a lot of the dreaming city's colors and themes, the otherworldly purple and pink combination is just to familiar. I feel like Mara should have been with us at the veil, she might actually know how to use the dang thing
Strand is not actually the force of the strings of existence, just us controlling it. The veil basically made those strings visible and controllable.
Indeed, the awoken were said to be created while in their ship. During the collapse, during the battle between the traveler and pyramid ships, the ship was like in between that or something. Or like entered a black hole as it happened. And this was said to be of light and dark creation, making the awoken a product of both Light and Dark.
Furthermore, just as you said, the awoken do share many Light and darkness themed powers. Specifically with becoming a new race and Mara sov deciding what shape they would all be and mortal or immortals etc. Bringing them back into the realm of the physical. However, they still all hold powers relating to darkness as well, such as the mind stuff and ley lines. Recall that Mara sov "died" during the taken War and was missing for a long time, and it turned out her body had vaporized, but her spirit or soul or consciousness was still "alive." And then once again, she gains a physical form again and we regroup with her. Mara Sov probably knows more than what she has revealed or said to us. Remember, throne worlds are inside the ascendant realm; something her and the awoken are gifted with knowledge of and ways to traverse in the realm.
And don't forget about the Nine too, which we still need more knowledge and answers from.
Also recall that the exos were made with 'Clarity,' something of the darkness. It was able to give proper consciousness to the exos. Transforming them from the material realm, from a body into a new artificial body, while keeping the personality intact. Basically like the veil and the Neomuna people's transforming from material bodies to another realm of being/consciousness.
Guardians also die, and lose their material bodies or aspects in the physical realm, only to be brought back by our Ghost. More evidence of light and dark and going from material world to a spiritual world and back and forth.
Really digging your videos. I took a break from Destiny for a couple years, so your videos helped me piece together what I missed, and these newer videos have helped bring clarity to the tale of The Traveler and The Witness. Thank you so much!
This is my current hypothesis: Light is what we see (material reality/land of the living) and Darkness is what we don't see (non-material reality/land of the dead/psyche/conciousness). Main forces of material world (Light) are: electromagnetic force (Arc?), nuclear force (Solar?) and gravity (Void?). For me it seems like Veil gives a power to enter the Darkness (non-material reality). People of Neomuna used Veil and actually moved from material world to non-material. Maybe Witness did the same. He opened a portal (which even looked like a psychodelic fractal) and entered the Darkness (non-material reality). If he wants to end life (light) and death (darkness) then he could achieve this in 2 ways: by destroying both realities or by taking the barrier between them. Maybe the Final Shape is a reality which combines both Light and Darkness: where dead (souls from non-material world) and alive (bodies from material world) exist in a same dimension. This could be Witness vision of a world without pain.
Death stranding?
Damn. They should give you the fucking job of story writing at Bungie. This, your theory, and the ones Evaze made on the video, sound way more logical than any of the what I've seen in the game since September 20-mother-fucking-14.
Funny thing that isn't mentioned enough:
The Radial Mast thing that we were chasing for.....
Is made with Light.
That must mean that the Witness also has access to light powers, too, not just dark.
And if you look at the Tormentors, they aren't Darkness creatures, they also use void light powers. Not to mention, Nezerac himself must also be a lightbearer as well, if his helmet which feeds on Void kills is anything to go by.
And what's more, Ghost is used as a conduit of the Witness to connect to the Veil!
What I'm getting at is perhaps we're not seeing the greater picture here. My theory is that the Witness isn't the Winnower nor the Gardener, but as his name implies:
He is the one who watches. Or the one who saw what the Traveler did. It killed the Winnower, throwing the universe into chaos.
Why did it do as it did? No one knows except the Witness. It makes more sense to me if the Witness is the cosmic neutral force between the Gardener and the Winnower.
Void is not really light only it's mix with darkness tho
@@lazyvoid7107 Yeah they don't use void LIGHT, just void. Whenever void light is involved (Savathun's song strike and during Witch Queen) the ghost goes "THAT'S VOID LIGHT!!"
Nezerec will use the light, as he most probably was ressurected by the beam traveller shot at pyramid
The veil is likely a paracausal transference mechanism. Its what allows the traveler to pluck non-phsyical souls and put them [back] into bodies (resurrecting guardians). But being cut off from The Witness/The Darkness, doesn't allow the physical to be transferred to the non-physical.
The CloudArk used The Veil as a precursor/power source to do just that. The people on neptune were transferred from their physical bodies to a non-physical (digital) form.
Is it possible that since the Veil and Black Heart created by the vex are similar and Savathun knew this, she deceived the Witness and gave the Black Heart in place of the Veil and that’s how she saved the Traveler?
We destroyed the Black Heart in the vanilla D1 campaign.
@@bobross8585 Which is hundreds of years post-collapse so @Nathaniel Jackson's theory still holds up pretty well. I mean think about how the stry of Destiny has only unfolded since the Black Heart was destroyed. Before that, the pyramid fleet was at the literal edge of the universe.
@@bobross8585 Savathun was with the Witness during the collapse. Which means there was plenty of time before D1 for her to perform that trick.
@@xreptarbreex tbf the pyramids woke up at the end of red war when the traveler did something for the first time since the collapse, but the black heart savathun theory still holds up well regardless
Pretty sure the black heart was discovered by the vex and then worshiped by them not created by the vex. At least that's what the lore had been up till now. Really no reason for them to retcon it now.
What's really interesting looking back is how much Ghaul actually accomplished in the Red War. Imprisoning and waking the Traveler has been the reason for everything that's happened ever since.
I also find it interesting that the Veil is extremely similar to the egregore plants. Really it just looks like a Giant Egregore Plant tbh
The amount of effort you put in is unreal! Great weaving bro! Gratitude 🙂
I appreciate that!
This is definitely the most (only really) likely interpretation of the story of light and dark. I wouldn’t have pieced this together myself. Thank you!
theres a dialogue line where (i think?) nimbus refers to the veil and the pale heart as separate entities. and theres also a line that states the veil manifests strand and mastering strand is easiest on neptune due to its proximity to "the darkness artifact".
i do NOT think the veil is the pale heart
Interesting! Do you know where nimbus says this?
Thank you for the explanation, and this helps clear out some of the confusion I had?
This video shows the reason why the community at large needs to take a step back on criticizing the campaign's story. I've read several articles that explained how the community was upset because the campaign didn't answer anything, just brought up questions.
YES! This is only the first week of a story that's supposed to unfold over four seasons... Over an entire year. If we knew all of the answers at the beginning of the first season of the story, then what would we have to find out. The initial campaign's story was simply the introduction to the situation and the first turning point.
I can't wait to see what happens next.
Excellent job on this video and others that you've made.
These is so interesting and makes so much sense so the witness was basically looking for the traveler's heart to be able to use he's power
Thanks for the great work!!
Watching this, makes me appreciate the story a bit more
With the witness turning the traveller into some type of portal maybe that’s what it is. Something like a sentient drone created by the veil to keep the dark forces in balance and it has counter measures like ghosts or the light beam.
This would play into the savathun lie/truth of there being multiple and the witness used the pale heart to access an override like a return home failsafe
This whole season reminded me of Carl Jungs theory on the Shadow self. Especially as you learn about strand. Furthermore we see a mural on a wall when the one cloud rider dude dies. It depicts some figures who are half light like and half dark.
Pale Heart and Black Heart, just made that connection
I like how Nimbus is a total chill bro
It'd be awesome if in the final shape we could use light and dark abilities at the same time, it could even do that instead of this final 3rd darkness subclass everyone is assuming we're going to eventually get (to make it even, 3 light, 3 dark), or maybe it would be more thematic for that to come after a 3rd darkness subclass
I know its been months since this came out but at 14:10 notice how the step leading into the pool also highly resemble the darkness "snakes" we kept seeing in cutscenes when we had collapses. Seems kinda weird to have that imagery when we talk about the river of souls and it just looks so like the other "snake" effect in older cutscenes.
We’ll have to wait til the end of this saga to fully judge it as a whole, Forsaken had us believing the story was going in one direction and after that it has gone in a different direction that what we had imagined.
My biggest complaint about the story really has been the supposed 5th race, that was teased not only since the beginning with that D1 promo art, but even in Forsaken with both Cayde mentioning said creatures in his journal. And more noteworthy Drifter with that icy world, where he and his team discovered creatures frozen in prison like cells like a zoo, but that suppressed light. (Drifters story has more merit because we see frozen or crystallized hive scorn and cabal in the Pyramid ships, or those frozen creatures in the ending cutscene of Witch Queen the ones The Witness walks past by). But I honestly expected to see something in Beyond Light in relation to a new enemy race one tied to the Pyramids and the Witness directly. The Tormentors are the first of a completely “new enemy race” (excluding Rhulk who was the last of his kind, and Nezarec whatever he turns out to be). Those Pyramid ships have been eerily empty, not including the enemies we continue to rinse and repeat, but each Pyramid ship has similar cultural architecture inside, art and statues. They’re not just empty vessels, and I doubt each one would have a Disciple. I have been waiting to see what The Witness’s actual army is like. Like I said the Tormentors are the first official Pyramid unit, but I want more.
Maybe and hope TFS will do it but I have feeling no since Xivu Arath is still alive and I'm 100% sure she is the main bad guy for the campaign. My theory is hive again but like the cabal it's going to look different with a new power, taken again and maybe Scorn.
What about xur though? Hes a jovian.
Its nice to go in depth on these things, I enjoy the lore. I been having a lot of fun in lightfall. I feel as if it's getting slammed with review bombs regarding the story and it seems to have that same effect on just about all other DLC's. The story is to my understanding supposed to be divided up across the seasons and entire expansion to get use out of all the content in it. to me, I personally am okay with that, it keeps me coming back for more. Just it seems so many people thought they were gonna get everything within a years worth of content to come in one go. Everyones entitled to ther own opinion of course, but I've been enjoying it and look forward to more.
P.S. Alot of the theories going around in the comments are dope ideas, I'm excited to see how this unfolds
Completely random thought I had whilst watching this: The Veil reminded me a lot of the Day of the Dead. On the Day of the Dead, the border between the spirit world and the real world is at its thinnest, or dissolved, allowing the souls of the deceased to come back to our world to celebrate. (I do not celebrate this holiday so I could be wrong about that description, my apologies). This makes me think that the Veil is a similar thing, but instead of being the border between life and death, it's the border between light and dark. I agree with the theory that the Veil is what keeps light and dark separated, and by 'lifting the veil' (or merging it with the Traveler or what have you), that binary, or separation, is dissolved (much like the border between life and death on the Day of the Dead).
I also am leaning towards the feeling that the 'final shape' isn't about balance, but about nothingness. Because how can one suffer if one doesn't even exist? If nothing exists, there is nothing to lose, nothing to gain (which could actually also be considered 'balance' but whatever). I also feel like a lot of villains/antagonists have this idea that they are 'saving' people by ending them because that way they can't suffer anymore (very generalised thinking).
Awesome video by the way!
plus! surely if they veil was moved, hell maybe removed, from the traveller, that could explain why guardians have no memory of their past life. the traveller can only recreate the physical form of the guardian, but not their memories. memories are of course an element of darkness, as we found out via deepsight
That'd be really cool
Osiri's quote here: "But even studying the failed attempt can lead to useful information" this is our attempt in a nutshell lol to study Lightfall/Bungie's narration in this expansion.
Certain exotics trigger voice lines that confirm savathun used the veil, hid it, and luckily didn't destroy it as it is potentially fragile
You know Evaze I think you have got it. It all makes sense going by the evidence you have provided. This will likely be my head canon until TFS or new evidence arises.
I think the veil is a glorious, paracausal energy source. Not just for Neomuna but also the traveler.
This explains the not life, not death quote. The traveller has been turned off by the link. Like a lightbulb. It is not dead just off.
The thing that still gets me, is if its just like the Traveler or Similar... Why did he make the comment that he felt like he shouldnt be there
Light and Dark are 2 halves of the same whole. If we consider Strand to be a Darkness power, it would make sense that the Veil to be of the Darkness. The "Witness" is still pretty ambiguous as a name. What did he witness? Did the Light and Dark come to a compromise and he disagrees?
Maybe the Witness is named that not for what he has Witness, but for what he wants to Witness or will Witness and that is the final shape
Beings as old or older than time, their cat and mouse game (traveler and witness) has gone on longer than we can comprehend. I look at it in two ways, either A. He's literally witnessed everything, all the species in the universe die off inevitably, but he's been there always, so he's "the witness". Alternatively, seems like The Final Shape was present beforehand. At least that's how I looked at his dialogue, maybe he's The Witness to the loss/corruption/breaking of The Final Shape.
@@EpticityOGmaybe he was the referee of the flower game? The being that would witness the ending. Call the game. It would mean they witnessed the final shape take place over and over? And when the game got new rules and spiraled the witness was left trying to bring it to an end. The right end, as it sees it, being the final shape
D2 year 1 I remember reading something where the Traveler was injured in the battle with the Darkness before the Pyramids were driven off; the Traveler cast a corrupted part of itself off before going dormant. This was supposed to have happened around the time Rasputin shot it. All that lore was a little sketchy at the time though
This image at the tower , for years. White circle with triangle in the middle
11:12 more like VR chairs, to upload the mind to the Cloud Ark prototype
Didn't know this woukd spoil the new exotic quest, thanks for the warning...
The fact that this video gave me more insight for free than the $50 campaign is crazy 💀💀💀
I really wish the unfinished bussiness quest was a part of the campaign. Just comparing it to the black heart helps explain a decent amount an shouldnt be a side quest thing
A lot of deathz suffering and hassle could have been averted if the Traveler would just speak to or through someone. Instead, it leaves us to fumble around in the... DARKNESS 🤯
just a theory here, but i think the veil is a life-consciousness engine. While the traveler can create life, it might not be able to bestow consciousness to said life. its like creating a body without a soul, the traveler can create the physical body, due to the light being a force for the realm of the physical, but cannot give said body consciousness. If the veil is an artifact of the traveler, but is in fact tied to the darkness, the veil could be what gives any life spawned by the traveler consciousness, due to the darkness being a force for the realm of the psychic.
What I think is that the darkness and light together being the cycle of life and death the traveller just extended life wherever it went destroying that natural cycle. Darkness/witness is coming in to stop that and make the cycle whole again
I LOVE YOU MAN THEY SHOULD SHOW YOUR VIDEO FOR THE INTRO
I hope we have a season where we find that strand can remake ghosts and we have the seasonal activity be us going after missing pieces or chunks of ghosts. Sure there might be lore reasons for some guardians being unable to return but would be nice to get a few back
I think the veil is a part of the traveller. Think sav damaged the traveller in order to remove the veil. Early concept art depicts a circular structure on the traveller. So do all the spherical stone carvings on Nesus
Inb4 we turn the leftover pieces of the Traveler into a gun that we use to kill the Witness. Imagine an exotic trace rifle that shoots that awesome terraforming beam we saw from the Traveler in the seasons cutscenes, and instead of vaporizing enemies, turns them into a nest of flowers, tree trunks, and bugs/birds. I personally think that'd be cool as shit
I believe the Hawkmoon was made from a husk of the Traveler.
But your idea is wild....and I like it. xD
Imagine having exotic armor made from the Traveler.
Very interesting and makes sense
I just want that yellow gravity darkness stuff as a subclass
this clears alot
Did you find the veil?
I think so...
What did it cost?
I have no idea
Good job
My theory is that the "galaxy pools" from the EDZ will be one of the locations on the other side of the portal the witness opened. instead of whatever it was going to be used for in the edz it's assets will be repurposed for something else.
In the some of the beginning, dialogue of destiny one it says the traveler instead, of abandoning us like it did with the fallen it stayed and fought back the darkness this actually makes sense because the traveler was too powerful to be destroyed, until the veil connection was made
I think you are right in the sense that the “veil” has been lifted and that light and dark are on the same playing field however I believe that the traveler is everything physical while the darkness is metaphysical. The traveler is body while the darkness is mind. Examples being when you go to Osiris on Neomuna you listen to his notes on the subclasses in the jars and it says the light subclasses are all physical while the dark subclasses are more concepts light stasis being will and strand being consciousness. I also believe that the final shape will be the union of mind and body of light and dark to make the whole or the final shape.
The Final Shape is squares, change my mind.
Makes sense. The whole light and dark has always been a play on heaven and hell or spiritual realm / physical realm where it's often said to be a veil separating the two.
When we first see the veil, it sure looks like the traveler to me when it fired that beam in the beginning. Maybe there is another "Veil" inside the traveler, that was trapped inside maybe? And thats why the witness said "be free"? Idk, feel like I'm grasping at the air with this campaign trying to figure it out.
It actually does look like a heart from an angle with it having what looks like an artery from where we fought Calus.
I honestly believe the witness used to control or be inside the traveler and was kicked out in a way some how and now is trying to destroy it out of revenge or reclaim what was rightfully his
Not happy that the story fell short in its delivery. However, thank you for compiling and sharing this lore. It doesn’t fix the campaign, but it is helping clarify things and making the bitter pill that was Lightfall, easier to swallow.
Spoon full of sugar eh?
if i had to guess, the pale heart, is referring to the travelers heart, meaning there is something inside the traveler.
seemingly the veil could be the pale heart, but what if there’s another veil, but a light version, just inside the traveler. what if the gardener created a ship around his “veil” (or these seed looking things that channel the paracausal energy of either the light or the dark) while the witness used his veil to instead create an army, his fleet of pyramid ships.
both “shapes” seem to just be some sort of vessel that the light and dark created, because we’ve seen pieces of the traveler come off, and we’ve even see the core activated at a certain time. this shows that the sphere that gives the traveler its appearance is just that, some sort of armor.
him saying the pale heart holds the key, probably means he knows what the core of the traveler truly is, and he is the only one capable of attacking it, as long as he creates this link between both of these power sources. this would be why the traveler is so much more powerful than the pyramid ships, yet the light doesn’t seem to exist outside of the traveler like the darkness does with the pyramids.
both the witness and the veil spread the influence of the darkness through our solar system, but anything related to the light seems to only have power that was chosen by the traveler, meaning whatever, or wherever this source of light is, as well as the gardener, has to be somewhere inside the traveler’s shell
I don't know why but I laughed really hard at the line "What kind of beings create their own god?"
Veil has a few definitions: a transparent material worn for concealment or protection from the elements; something that covers, separates, screens, or conceals; a mask, disguise, or pretense (among other definitions). With that being said, what if the physical form of the Traveller was the protection to a pocket universe that could be moved, and the Witness is trying to get home. Within the pocket universe is a hyper advanced species (maybe a 4th dimensional one…think similar to the Nine). With the Veil, the Traveller was able to conceal its contents and protect it from the elements. And maybe, the Veil concealed that the Traveller isn’t a “being” of pure Light. I have more to this thought but won’t write a novel in the comments. PS a synonym of veil is shroud…which I find interesting
Has anyone else noticed the weapon the guardian was holding is the same as the first weapon you get in the first destiny now idk if they just brought back a similar or same weapon in the second game I no longer play but it’s pretty cool and nostalgic for me.
My current short theory as to what happens in the campaign. The Veil is the Travelers heart, the Traveler once was a wielder of Light and Dark but got rid of it's heart to become pure Light. The Witness can only control Darkness so it needed to give the Traveler it's heart back so it can use the Darkness within it to open the portal, killing the Traveler.
Think it's been confirmed the traveler is all light. Would make no since for it to be both light and darkness. Kinda defeats the whole light vs darkness/garden vs winnower thing going on
when the traveller hit the pyramid ships with light it caused life to grow on the pyramid, beyond the final shape or whats in the portal must be a world in which there is total balance between the two creating a world that is balanced between light and dark with the veil being the bridge or door between both worlds
You need to look at the winter bite stuff and the hall of hero’s the occlusion a vex mind inside the network turns out to be the colony ship that left the spire of the watcher
I’ve got a theory.
The forces of Light and Dark were once aspects of a single paracausal Entity whose purpose was to both seed and weed out life in the universe, but could not to interfere beyond that. The Entity, possibly unable to bare the natural conflict of its two opposing aspects, split itself in two, the aspect of Life (the light and the traveler) taking a more active, possibly manipulating role in our universe, seeding more life and uplifting species to survive in situations they’d naturally be unable to. The aspect of Death (the witness and the pyramid ships) sought to undo what it believe to be aberrant behavior that threatened that natural balance of the cosmos, would naturally be seen as an antagonist due to its utter destruction of races touched by the traveler.
The witness needs the Veil because it is the object that keeps the two aspects separated. The purpose of a Veil is to conceal or act as a partition. The witness hopes to force the traveler to recombine into a single entity, and return to its role as an observer of the universe rather than a manipulator of it.
We get hints throughout Destiny’s story that the Light and Dark aren’t so different. We hear lines repeated constantly;
“The line between light and dark is so very thin”
“Light and dark a two sides of the same coin”
I the nine outright tell us that “there is no difference” when we consult them during the prophecy dungeon. I took this literally to mean that they’re essentially the same paracausal force, just different manifestations of it.
I feel like we need more lightfall content throughout the seasons up to lightfall
This remind me a lot of neon genesis with whole idea of a veil or barrier being broken when to parscuasal or god like entities meet intertwine and as the witness says “no more life nor more death” an implication of some alternate existence
Speaking of the Primordial Garden, 12:16 there's a reddit post I saw that actually made a fairly good theory about what the story of the Primordial Garden might actually be about. Not sure if I can link it here in the comment section actually...
anyways, it's in r/DestinyLore titled "A thought (or hypothesis) regarding the origin of the Traveler, the Witness, and the Vex"
anyone remember that scene from season of arrivals where the 3 enemy races look towards a pyramid ?
at the time i thought we would gain allies as we went forward towards this expansion but i guess till the final shape
we have a cabal ally
fallen ally
now we just need hive which would likely be savathun in season 21
osiris basically confirms that darkness is emotion, pain, memory.....so its our conciousness..... the pale heart is a darkeness force(or it has both light and dark) and it was used to transfer neomuna's peoples consciousness from physical/brain (light) form to a digital and metaphysical form (similar to darkness)
this ties together the veil being the transit between light and dark and the facility being an cloudark protype (these stations look like pods for uploading conciousness)
Regardless of what it is, the purpose of the veil is clear, to keep light and dark separate. It’s now been lifted and the final shape is starting to form. It’ll probably be up to us what that final shape ends up being
7:11 “there is no good and no evil” I think you meant that light isn’t necessarily good nor is darkness evil. The entire struggle and conflict in Destiny is that you, as the Guardian, are fighting for what you believe is right.
I feel this is a personal vengeance situation from the witness. There's an altercation between Calus and the witness when Calus almost revealed the real reason why the witness is doing this
4:32 Ghost buddy, the Fallen of House Devils tried to create a machine god out of SIVA.
Light and Darkness now seriously remind me Yin and Yang natures from Naruto. Yin can give something form aka Strand like Shadow Style, nightmares/dreams like Genjutsu and Yang breathes life into a form which is reminiscent to Wood Style.
im pretty sure they were there before the explansion, but if you look around the tower there are circles (traveler) with a triangle inside of them, they are all over the walls throughout the tower, if anyone has any footage of before the expansion perhaps they were there before and we didnt notice? perhaps it was forshadowing this whole time?
I dont think the traveler and the witness are gardner/winower....in the unveiling lord tab "the first knife" the Gardner claimed they would make the m selves a law in the game. But the game needed to run parallel to the existing game so outside the garden?
So when they started playing universes were born. In that lore tab though something interesting is talked about. The flowers from that garden escaped. I think that's the witness and traveler's for this universe. One of dark one of light.
I think the witness is going back to the garden to get the two to stop what they are doing. Fighting/playing.
I also believe when the Gardner started the game it believed in itself so much of creating more life/complexity it created the veil. To lift the blocade of the garden and game and create the universes.
On the other hand the widower only believed in one course of action the same action that he was programmed to do, which is to reap what was sown. Hence the first knife. Hence why it is not as strong as the light. Because it doesn't believe It should change or have bigger aspirations it wants to be the same as its always been. So it can't think of anything else.
Or maybe they are winower and Gardner with now physical bodies??? Fk idk
The longer the story goes on..the more and more the Cosmic Egg Theory makes sense
just seems like the veil is the dark mirror that xur mentions. the traveler and light create life, while the veil and darkness follows and creates consciousness.
I’d also point out that Osiris description of the traveler being focused on the “Physical” and the Darkness on the “Metaphysical” is very similar to Gnosticism, where the “Demiurge” is a false god that created the physical universe that traps the souls of living beings in physical bodies, drastically limiting their ability to view the “true” nature of the universe. Is Osiris foreshadowing that perhaps the Traveler isn’t as benevolent as we thought? I thought that was a rather interesting revelation in an otherwise lackluster story.
So what your saying is that the veil is the other side of the traveler like dark and light. Traveler is [pure light] the veil is [pure dark]. This would just make subclass as a product from both light classes from traveler and dark from veil. When both combine it means trouble
If the goal is to end pain, death cures all. On that note what if the whitless turned the traveler into a ghost factory, giving them to everyone everywhere friend and foe using the black fleet as materials. Oh and making them uncrushable. That would end wars.
Maybe the veil is how the traveler created the ghosts. (I don't know if you already suggested it I just started watching)
16:36 on the right. A statue of nezarak or a tormentor?
The Veil is just a big, magic flower. At the base it has roots, and then it blooms at the top
Damn so Rohan the OG died for nothing. Thanks Ghost
I can’t help but think that the Veil is a domain rather than an object or entity. Much like the ascendant plane, but a place where light nor dark rules supreme. Maybe it’s a place where an untapped power awaits. I think that kind of explains the Witness and his “Final Shape” plan. As we know it, he can’t use light to create what he wants. Maybe the Veil is a place where he can create his Final Shape and be the “Supreme Ruler” of his new domain? I don’t know.
Wait how do you get the scene with nimbus, and Osiris about the river speech?
We went to Neonuma, and found a plant with a chaleidoscussy, which ghost flew into, then the Witness gave the Traveler a big triangle chaleidoscussy and he and his buddies all dove into it while everybody fuckin' watched. Nasty!