277FURY & 6.8x51 Vs. Level IV Armor Plates
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
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In this video we take a look at 277 Fury and its counterpart 6.8 x 51. We see how it fares against level IV armor plates.
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Just to keep in mind that the 6.8x51 shown here is not the "actual" military round, which is AP. The x51 here is the military's training ammo. The real deal is supposed to penetrate but nobody is gonna be able to get their hands on it easily.
It's the hybrid case, that's the military loading. I highly doubt sig would spend the money on making practice, military, AND fake military just for UA-camrs.
I think the reality is this round is a dud until they find tune it in some later iteration.
@@harukiri2738 considering they sell Thai rifle to the public I find it rather feasible that they would make different loadings
@@zb6618 I understand, I just don't believe it.
Making a standard quality ammunition for their military contract? Yeah obviously.
Making lower quality ammunition for civilians? Sure yeah that makes sense.
Making a lower quality ammunition that's made to only LOOK like standard military quality ammunition for civilians? No that doesn't make sense.
If that were true, then that means the REAL military ammunition would have to be hybrid cased with some type of penetrator. That means there are 4 completely separate production lines for slight variations of the same ammunition and I just find that really hard to believe coming from a manufacturing background.
The entire point of the hybrid case is so their ammunition can handle the higher pressure. And they did show in the video that the round was going at the correct fps as stated numerous times in other videos.
I think this is the real deal, and it's a big waste of money like the f35 is.
@@harukiri2738 It's not that the powder loading or cases are different: the military ammunition is supposed to be like M855A1 or M80A1. A solid copper projectile with a hardened steel penetrator tip. I still doubt it will defeat Level IV armor, which is rated to withstand .30-06 M2 AP (and has been shown for some plates capable of withstanding Swiss-P, M993, and M2 AP and M993 projectiles fired out of .300 Winmag casings at over 3300 FPS), a very similar projectile but carrying a giant tungsten penetrator.
It's not illegal to possess, but it is illegal for the manufacturer to cell to civilians in the US.
@@MillionFoul what do you mean? The case is the reason the rounds can go up to 80,000psi.
Either way, this video is them shooting a hybrid case round at nearly 3000psi out of a 13" barrel. Thats pretty much identical to what the military would be using so I think it's safe to assume this is the military ammunition.
The camera stabilizing the recoil relative to the gun looks so cool.
It is isn’t it? It was kind of a happy accident then I found a way to slightly amplify the effect and that’s what you get. I kinda like it. Thanks for watching!
It’s like watching the world recoil every time you shoot
came here to say that! Insanely cool shot.
@@AlabamaArsenal Which editing suite are you using?
I just wanna see these things in 20"+ barrels. That's a wild amount of power for a 140gr pill
Indeed! Thanks for watching!
I'd just like to see even a 16 inch barrel. From 13.5 up the gains pretty large starting that low. This powder is designed to perform in a short barrel. If they put a slower burning powder that is optimized for a longer barrel it would get really interesting out of a 16 to 20 inch barrel rifle. It would make a great DMR rifle.
@@paulbarclay4114 technically "no need" but since more power and penetration was the primary goal and range secondary then it would make sense to use 16 inch barrel. I'm thinking something like tavor 7 could have 17 inch barrel plus suppressor and still be the same length
This
@@actionjksn there is no such thing as a bullet losing speed in a long barrel because it is "optimized for short barrel".
9mm is optimized for 5", still faster out of a 16". So yeah, the 6.8 will be faster out of a 20". Such big round will never reach its full potential out of such short barrel, no matter how optimized it is.
If Sig can make an M80A1 style projectile that penetrates IV from 6.8x51, I'll be impressed. IV by definition stops steel M2AP at .30-06 velocity, and it generally takes tungsten M993 7.62x51 or WWII era German 8mm SmKH to defeat level IV.
These aren’t tungsten or steel penetrator. So when AP .277 fury comes out that plate is done for
The math I came up with is the 6.8mm military round can one shot penetrate level 4 armor at up to 100 meters, level 3+ body armor at up to 300 meters and level 3 body armor at 600 meters.
@@orlock20 I have no doubt they could make a tungsten core 6.8 penetrate. The big win would be penetrating with steel.
Guess I missed the memo when it was changed from XM5 to XM7 - just checked Wikipedia and says Sig did that this month to "avoid a trademark conflict with Colt's M5 carbine".
Yeah from what I understand it happened within the last week. I knew Colt had a gun called that but I thought a genuine military designation trumped that. Looks like I was wrong. Thanks for watching.
I'm glad you made note it's the same cup and core ball projectile on both. I'm curious to see a similar test with the projectile they'll actually adopt.
This is one hell of an advertisement for Guard Dog as an armor brand.
Well look at that.. the 2 calibers I’m most interested by at the moment. Right on time.
They are pretty interesting. Thanks for watching!
I went to your most recent video to reach out to you. I think your videos are excellent & very informative. The content is so well thought out. I was looking at the EL TT Beretta 92 video & all of my questions/concerns were answered. Especially the comparison to the WC Beretta, which was very unexpected & a real bonus. Very concise & detailed. Great job. Really enjoy well made, quality videos w/out any BS. I look forward to more great content. Thanks.
Thanks for this video!
We are all living through a leap in tech similar to leap from black powder cartridges to smokeless powder cartridges. It’s pretty exciting.
I agree with you that the 6.8x51 has the juice to punch through level IV armor. I would assume that there will be a projectile similar to M80A1 or M1158 that will come out in the future. Even a less expensive projectile like the M993 would probably defeat level IV. There is a reason the Army said this cartridge has to generate 3000fps with a 130gr projectile. These are the numbers that consistently defeat Ratnik (Russian) plates or the like at distance with current AP projectiles.
Also note that the Sig Hybrid Case tech haven’t even showed all it can do. The ceiling operating pressure for these cartridges is over 100k PSI and the current hot 6.8x51 is operating at around 80k PSI. Once barrels and bolts are optimized to take these pressures we will see even more velocity out of short barrels. We will also surely see other cartridges using this tech that will be in 5.56x45 form and even pistol rounds. Exciting times!
Now I would just love to see the POF Revolution in 6.8x51. It’ll take some changes in the metal that the barrel and bolt are made of but POF can crack that code. A sub 6lb rifle with this cartridge would be truly “Revolutionary”.
Hats off to Guard Dog... that is impressive plates for the price.
Guard Dog is chinesium
@@skinnymun chinesium that stopped the US's latest and greatest round lmfao
@@harukiri2738 "stopped"
Buddy that hardly stopped an OTM, not AP or ball
That was very interesting. Like others, I would have liked to see the test using a 16” barrel, but ALSO, I’d really like to see the follow-up shots being a little further away from the first where the ceramic is already turned to dust. I suspect a 5.56 follow-up shot would have penetrated too when punching through essentially the same hole. Thanks for the video! I am now a subscriber.
Great video, super interesting. These hybrid cases are game changers
Man I wish I could have one of those rifles. Love this channel! You guys do exceptional work! The video quality is so good, Thank you guys for another good one!
Really appreciate that! Yeah I hope to have one of these rifles one day, they’re very impressive. Thanks for watching!
@@AlabamaArsenal .277 chambered Sig Spears potentially on sale later this year after 308 and 6.5 after February.
I think both of those first hits are taking the guy out of the fight from breaking ribs and breast bone. The one from the hot round may very well be fatal. That would be a lot of impact against someones chest. A lot of kinetic energy in a pretty small area. I'm guessing those plates ride pretty tight against your chest? I've had fully broken ribs with a punctured lung, you are not fighting like that.
I 100% agree and also "Good, better, best!"
I thought the same thing. Seriously, all may have been fatal to a lot of humans. Possibly most.
What a nasty cartidge! Nice job fellas!
Awesome rifle and cartridges , not to mention the always impeccable videos and narration !
Really appreciate that man! Thanks for watching!
I've been waiting on content like this.
Hope it lives up to your expectations! Thanks for watching!
Suddenly I can’t help but wonder if this cartridge is designed for something besides Chinese / Russian armor. 🤫
Yeah no kidding. They'll get to try them out soon enough. Something something 40 million.
Yeah that definitely makes you wonder. Thanks for watching!
It made for defeating all the civilians with 3+ plates
Bingo, who has the most body armor other than Chinese and Russians?
Yep. I came here to find someone else thought the same...
The DU in 7.62x51 will penetrate AR500 at 100m.
DU NATO ammo can be found from select sources for typically $2 per round.
Always was questioning why instead of tungsten, we wouldn’t go DU. Think it’s an environmental issue.
DU isn't a thing for rifles and machineguns, it's tungsten cores.
Well now you have to figure out if it can penetrate level iv plates with 1) armor piecing rounds and 2) at 300 yards and 3) how many hits it takes to penetrate given 1&2.
.277/6.8 Fury is just necked down .308 Win to between .260 Rem and 7mm-08. It does what all the rest of the .308 case family do in short suppressed gas guns with similar bullet weights and types. If 6.8 needs a special AP bullet to penetrate then it really accomplishes nothing over the already fielded cartridges which have AP loads. Yeah, you get the extra 300 FPS with the steel case head from your new heavy sbr, but if it still doesn't penetrate then you aren't getting anything extra for your recoil and part service life sacrifice.
This whole thing seems like another SCAR or M14 debacle. A new expensive shortie rifle that is also NFA taxed with a new case that is marginally different from 3-4 other cartridges already in existence for 20-60 years, expensive overpressure fancy ammo, all for extra fps that doesnt even do the job without the special AP bullet anyways, which is also government regulated out of civilian hands. Just seems like a bad joke, but good video, nothing against you guys.
I am so excited for this gun, I can’t wait until the 277 fury version is available. Thanks AA for another great video
I am too! I hope to get one that I can keep, because I need this in my life! Thanks for watching!
Well done and very interesting.
Can you do a comparison of the 277 fury vs the AP 6.5 creedmoor? Especially since the ap 6.5 was able to penetrate level 4 body armor like it was a hot knife through butter
Thanks for the reply. I get it. None the less, unless the cartridge is burning a special formulated powder; no way to get a full burn with such a short pipe. It’s case capacity is on par with .308/7.67 nato 7.62x51. I load a 168.gr. Pill and push it with 42.gr of H335 with heavier pill’s running up to 48.gr of propellant. Perhaps they will build a DMR with enough barrel for a full burn. Maybe a Ruger precision rifle. Thanks again for your reply.
thanks
14 lbs, 2 charging handles, and a forward assist… Jealous poge over here rationalizing why I’m glad I’ll never have to carry one - ‘cause I sure won’t ever shoot one in combat😂.
Good work - great videos.
This entire requirement came from the "Perfumed Princes in the Pentagon", not the trigger pullers. SOCOM has the URG-I uppers in 5.56x45 and is very happy.
I can't wait to see 6.8x51 shot out of a 20 inch barrel. I know you don't need the longer barrel. That was the point of this weapon/cartridge combination. I still want to see it.
Should get close to 3150fps
That's what the suppressor is for. Its not quite as effective as just having a long barrel, but it wouldn't be a very noticeable difference. Not much point in looking into it
Ok. That I definitely want to see.
@@mysterymeat1216 not at all 😂
@@conman1395 the fuck are you on about? That's literally why they come standard with suppressors so they don't have to use a longer barrel. Makes them more compact and gives the range you need. SIG said this themselves in multiple interviews
Great vid guys! What part of the woods y'all from here in Alabama?
The biggest advantage to this system, is the new high pressure ammunition, I feel like they could update cartridges like 5.56, 6ARC, or 6.8 spc and gain similar performance in a small frame platform. Would just have to change the bolt and barrel components. Very cool
Seriously a bimetal 6arc would be crazy
@@newerest1 hell yeah, and just imagine a version of a 7.5 fk type cartridge in a new subgun. Could make subguns relevant again in the military
Yep. I think this is what's going to happen. And I think there will be an LT mk2 very soon to be able to handle the chamber pressures of a hybrid 5.56.
Exactly what I've been wondering. But it seems the military uses some sort of 'percentage of improvement gain over what's currently available versus dollar spent' ratio to make these determinations.
Steel core 6ARC would be cheaper and overall more effective. 6.8x51 is way too expensive and needs a rifle that's too heavy.
Really curious about seeing a 6.8x51 steel core or even a mild steel core out of the 13" barrel and how good FMJ 6.8x51 does out of a longer barrel (like 18.5" to 20" and then a combination of the steel core with a longer barrel, (I know currently the longest barrel production gun in 6.8x51 is the Cross with a 16") which could be interesting. Probably the best video on the 6.8 and NGSW (Spear) rifle on youtube.
I think even a solid copper bullet might get through that armor using the hotter version.
@@actionjksn level IV, doubt it. I’ve punched M80a1 to 3400 fps and a lot of level IV will stop it.
@@actionjksn Nah, some Level IV plates will take 993 or M2 AP at over 3300 FPS no problem. This isn't carrying anywhere close to that amount of energy, and I understand the military rounds will only be a hardened steel penetrator, not a tungsten one.
@@BuffRANGE see 6.8 51 for a different ratio of core length to bullet caliber. Simply put, the bullet is longer and narrower for the same mass. It is in this ratio that the secret of breaking through SMKH armor. Tungsten in the core of the cartridge should give an increase in armor penetration compared to the M993, and pass level 4
With a barrel that long it would be similar to full size M16, which if our into bullpup configuration could be great. If only a bullpup was adopted for the NGSW trials 🤷♂️
NIJ Level IV standard is 30.06 M2AP 163gr Hardened Steel core round at 2950fps from 40yards. I don’t think the 6.8x51mm has the horsepower with a steel core round to punch through a Level IV.
Correct they have to use Tungsten core like are current AP 6.8x51 ammo for the same performance against armor. Therefore the entire concept is a fail.
This kinda makes me wish I got my cross in 277 fury. Hey maybe eventually they will follow through with their commitment to making barrels later on. I’m patient
What tripod you using Alabama Arsenal?
Can you imagine that with a longer "rifleman" profile barrel with the lessons we learned with M855A1... Pretty sure that might punch the side armor of a BMP....
I can't seem to find Guard Dog plates on the NIJ list. Considering that NIJ level IV is supposed to withstand multiple hits from AP 30-06, and back face deformation is also measured, I am not sure I believe Guard Dog's claim that it is actually rated.
You guys are the best for this video
Awesome video brother!
Appreciate you watching man!
How’s the round compared with the LWRCI 6.8 A5 ?
Sig once said that civilians wouldn't have access to the exact ammo the mil would be using. Either this changed or the gun actually got adopted after failing the level 4 requirement.
The “military grade 6.8x51” they have is probably a hunting round that SIG does sell on the commercial market. As they said, with a proper armor piercing projectile, it would sail right through lvl 4 plates.
@@sharqueeshajohnalaneesha2019 The point I was attempting (rather poorly) to make was that civilians obviously don't have access to the exact mil ammo b/c the gun wouldn't have been adopted w/o meeting the lvl 4 requirement.
@@billybob6784 yea i dont understand why people have been doing analysis and ballistics videos without understanding this important fact. Sure may be of value for non-mil customers wanting to understand how a rifle bought off the shelf will perform based on what they can get but its in no way is indicative of the true performance of the round and weapons platform.
@@sharqueeshajohnalaneesha2019 No it won't. Level IV plates are often capable of stopping M2 AP and M993 at over 3300 FPS, the military round with a hardened steel penetrator isn't going to get more pen than that out of 400 less FPS.
@@billybob6784 It is illegal in the Us for the manufacturer to sell you AP ammunition. No, you are not getting the same rounds the Army is until they start falling off of trucks and you buy them for $3 apiece off gunbroker.
Does a double tab within proximity of the firt round penetrate the armour is my question. The guard dog has some hexagons hardbalistic inside it so only one piece breaks. The standard US army lvl 4 have one solid piece that breaks up further so a double tab should make it through
I just saw a new level 4 plate stop a m993 projectile loaded into a 300 win mag case (130 grain at over 3400 fps) . This gun is already obsolete 😂
This rifle military ammo is advertised to penetrate level 4 body armor at 600 meters. Nobody on UA-cam still hasn't challenged the claim.
I would like to see some testing on Level 3 plates, I know it probably will go thru but we need to know for science.
Lol I’m with you 100%, unfortunately I’ve already had to send that gun back to its owner. But I hope to get another 277Fury very soon. Thanks for watching!
No worries man, i enjoy the content. keep up the great work
Even M855/M855A1 can go through most Level 3 plates
Thank you.
This stuff is cooking......time for the Armor makers to get back into the lab and get to work
When ever I see the rifle being fired by a person, it always think “geez that looks like a fairly long barrel” but then remembering that it’s only a 13” barrel and I have to remind myself that the m4 carbine has a 14.5” barrel as a comparison and that I personally run a 18.7” barrel lol
I'm betting this replaces the M-14 as the shortest lived service rifle.
I am actually kind of with you on that. It was touted to penetrate level IV body armor. It didn’t in the first round in this one, while MAC’s channel and of course Flannel Daddies channel it did not penetrate at all. I watched Karl from InRange do a mud test on the weapon and it had a catastrophic malfunction as the extra charging handle allowed debris into the trigger group which seized the weapon. As I know from combat, anything bad that can go wrong will go wrong and it will do so at the most crucial moment.
I also believe that the rifle, optic, and can will make this a quite weighty rifle. Unloaded and with no optic it is already at around 8.6 pounds. Add the Vortex Optic, flashlight, and PEQ with one loaded 20 round magazine you may be upwards of 10 or even more pounds. Now try conducting Air Assault standard with that rifle unslung, full kit and 35lb rucksack and tell me you want to carry that much weight for 12 miles in less than 3 hours. Yeah, I am glad I am out now as I would likely throw down that heavy weapon and opt for something lighter. If I wanted to carry a 10lb rifle I would have carried the M14 EBR in Afghanistan. I traded that in as soon as I could as that weight at 8,000 foot elevation and having to go miles on foot, sucked. I think most Soldiers will like it for a bit and when actually moving with it for long distances and then having to fight with it, they will soon want to go back to intermediate calibers again.
@@williamfoote1609 If you look around YT you will find the former green beret who ran their training program for several years, that was his opinion. A door-kicker's gun and A defenders gun should be very different things in the same way A gun for urban fighting sucks fighting in the mountains or forest. They should have A modular "Light AP" system and modular "Medium AP" system and the bullet, powder charge, and barrel length should be tailored to that end.
@@AKlover, you are meaning Retired Green Beret Operator Jeff Gurwitch? Or, Retired Navy Seal Mark “Coch” Cochiolo? Either way, they both have the same sentiments and thoughts as one of my colleagues, Retired Command Sergeant Major for 5th Battalion, 19th Special Forces Group (Airborne). He agrees that the NGSW is a capable LMG that could replace the M249 and M240. He also believes that the XM5 (now XM7) could become a very capable Designated Marksman Rifle (as it is a few ounces lighter than the M-14 EBR). His issue is widespread issuing of the XM5 (now XM7) as it is a heavier rifle, with less ammunition (meaning achieving fire superiority is going to be harder). His exact thoughts on new training and new weapon systems (which he is still requested to test and give his take on it) is, “We are going to deserve the next ass kicking we get.” His exact thoughts were, “If it isn’t broke, don’t try to fix it. If it looks stupid but works, it isn’t stupid. Soldiers are naturally lazy and giving them heavier things to carry will ensure they revolt and do as little as possible. They expect an 18 year old private that is borderline obese to carry and use an 11 pound rifle when that same private today can’t carry and employ a 7 pound rifle system.”
Which I agree with him and the other two. The round appears capable for distance. It is a few ounces lighter than the M-14 EBR. Make it a DMR that shares ammunition with the NGSW. Have the NGSW replace the M249 and M240. This way range is no longer an issue. Have the Squad Leader and Team Leader run the XM5 (now XM7) if they wish but maintain the rifleman and grenadier with M4a1’s. As it will allow them to obtain fire superiority at close range. If it were up to me, I would replace the 7.62x51 rifles with the 6.8x51 for DMR’s and LMG’s. I would maintain the assault element of the squad with an M249 and M4 so they have lighter weapons with more ammunition in which to assault the enemy after finding them and fixing them.
I'm doubtful. The M14 was pure shit, the spear only has normal battle rifle issues going against it.
@@williamfoote1609the round the military uses in the m7 pierces level four like butter. It’s just illegal to own as a civilian.
The m80a1 style in this cartridge would be so hot
Great video
So basically army requirement, level iv ap without using more exotic mateiral other than steel core.
I wonder if army will just standardized with 68 in the future with dmr and sniper?
Also the xm157, is it just going to be in storage or everyone will actually get them?
A longer barrel and those will penetrate easy if they are reaching those fps numbers at only 13inch barrel. Impressive
The 6.5 with say a m80A1 type projectile would be bad ass
I wonder if its going to be like FN 5.7x28. A bunch of cartridge types with a couple being restricted for military/law enforcement.
what is the suppressor in the opening shot?
I wonder if it would have made a dfference coming out of a longer barrel, something like the Sig Sauer Cross Rifle
I definitely think a longer barrel increasing velocity would make a difference. Thanks for watching!
the question that i have is with the elevated chamber pressures, how quickly will you burn out the barrel
These rifles have quick change barrels and probably have them for a reason. In casual use, I believe the number was 10,000 rounds, but they are probably going to be swapped out after one or two heavy fire fights.
The Army went back to the old ways during the Cold War.
Shout out fellow Alabamaians.
So what's the difference between this round and 30-06, except for being more expensive?
What would you like to be that the 6.8x51 military ball load will use a M855A1 / M80A1 style projectile.
I think it's fine and would make an excellent DMR replacement for the M110 with a 16" barrel. Other than that, it's simply too much rifle and cartridge for actual effective direct confrontation distances, which in the modern world are within 300 meters or less. A soldier's rifle is a PDW. It is not something you take a position with, like in WWII. It is what you use to lay down fire during initial engagement with an enemy while you call in the bigger assets to finish the job i.e. drone, A10, Cobra or Apache, long range artillery and armor, etc.
Powerful and robust. SIG knocks it out of the park again. Sig Fanboy here.
Favorite gun channel right here!
Really appreciate that man! Tell your friends! Thanks for watching!
Considering that the military version is 16+ inch barrel and the tip is most likely Armor piercing, it truly seems that they hit the spot there.
Content we didn't know we needed!
LOL! Appreciate you watching!
Lvl 4 body arnor, some, are rated against a 30-06 AP 166gr at 2880 fps....so doubt the AP version would have more capability.
Although the bullet was trapped by the armor, I've seen in other armor test videos where they say that a large bulge in the back could still be fatal. Wonder if this qualifies as too much bulge
I think 40mm is the cutoff for backfac3 deformation. Im pretty sure that was technically a failure.
The impact can still make a kill. It will break your organ cause bleeding. Plus the bulge in a chest willing cause hard breathing.
Backface deformation isn't healthy for you, but its lethality is probably over-exaggerated, especially with the most common kinds of weapons that are out there.
I challenge anybody to find a single case of a person being fatally wounded from backface deformation to their NIJ-certified body armor. Not, "passed away 5 years later from complications related to the injury", but "the backface deformation made them drop dead".
There is exactly one mention of somebody being killed by BFD "from a very heavy rifle bullet" in official NIJ documents , and that happened over 30 years ago (the document mentioning it was from 1992).
@NDX I'd say it's all a matter of where it hits. Like the other guy says you get that impacting higher in the chest cavity you might stop someones heart. You'd damage other tissue but probably have just really bad bruising. I mean this still doesn't account for a trauma backer and soft armor layered behind either.
Your biggest issue would probably be from something like a cracked rib puncturing something, or the shock causing arrhythmia..
Fantastic video! You are quickly becoming one of my favorite pewtubers!
but I wanna know at what distance could it penetrate LVL4.
The program called for 3000FPS and being able to shoot through a level 4 plate from 100 yards. 2900 is pretty close and two shots are pretty close but I wonder what other factors are required to make that happen
It think a true armor piercing projectile would get it really close if not to those specifications. Thanks for watching!
I think adding a steel core would make it zip right through.
As already said, steel core like the ole green tips, or something like M855A1. Or tugsten, that would be nice.
@@argonzeit Unlikely. Some Level IV plates have been shown to withstand M2 AP and M993 at over 3300 FPS. 2900-300 with a steel core isn't going to cut it.
@@MillionFoul You aren't accounting for the fact that this projectile is thinner so even if it has slightly less energy its focusing it in a smaller area. 6.8 will want to poke through armor easier than a 7.62.
What you've got is the civilian version of the ammo. Even though the plate held I still wouldn't want to get shot by this round. The deformation alone would have you on the ground in serious pain.
One of these days we gotta do a 6.8 Spear vs SCAR-H match. Is the 6.8 Spear an overall improvement from the SCAR? Or more like a sidegrade?
My personal opinion is it is a huge improvement especially given the caliber. They're closer to equal if they were in the same caliber but I'd still take the Spear, and I do have a couple SCARs. The Spear is just newer so it can make improvements upon the SCARs short comings. Thanks for watching!
I'd love a 6.8 barrel for my scar, would be rad
I wonder how hot you could handload 6.8x51 cases
When will 277 fury be available
YESSS! I am so excited to see the results. I've been waiting for a video like this for a while. It would be even more relevant if you guys had russian and chinese plates. Also do we even know what kind of projectile is going to be used in the military?
I suspect that the military load will employ an armor penetrating round of some type.
An AP round would be a pretty quick and easy change to make if we needed it. I think the guy wearing either of those plates is going to the hospital from the first hit.
@@Snapper314 Considering the damage I guess even a mild steel penetrator like in m855 would be sufficient. And yeah I wouldn't want to get hit in a plate with 6.8
@@professionalschizo That would make sense
It would be nice if you would test True Velocity 308 ammo In the Sig. I used it my M1A and it worked fine. But it is ‘Hot’
If it wasn’t for the ATF it would be cool to see how armored core stuff preformed against lvl 3 stuff.
Personally I can see 277 fury/6.8x51 as a very versatile hunting cartridge esp with the much hotter loads in a light hunting rifle it may just even be good enough for elk.
I’d love to see those military hot loads out of a 18” or 20”
M7s with AP rounds on the civilian market is not the best idea. The army claims the rounds can penetrate level 4 armor at 600 meters.
@@orlock20 fuck off fudd. That’s the exact reason it should be!
would deffinatly need a 3a soft backer behind tht lvl 4 to make that hurt ALOT less
That would be a very good idea if you’re planning on trying to catch a 277Fury. Thanks for watching!
Wait, won't the energy transferred to the clay do considerable damage to the wearer of that armor? Could it cause internal bleeding?
Idk about you, but I wouldn't want to be hit with a 277 fury at any range and have that kind of 1" punch right to my gut or my ribcage.
thank god its actually 6.8, every other video with the m5 is a different cartridge
So what you're saying is pick up Guard Dog body armor JUST IN CASE
Probably wouldn’t be a bad move! 🤣 thanks for watching!
That’s going to leave a mark!😂
Yeah definitely going to be a bad day! Thanks for watching!
@@AlabamaArsenal I always enjoy your videos
So it would appear the 6.8x51 can do velocity wise from the 13” barrel what the 22” 7.62 NATO can do. Making some assumptions here that would make the 6.8 M80a1 equivalent pretty much a level IV requirement across the board. Applying the XM1158 tech to 6.8 would likely mean level IV penetration out to a couple hundred yards against regular level IV from a 13” barrel :0. Well in theory.
Nah. Level Iv plates can often withstand M993/M2 AP (a bigger threat than M80A1) at over 3300 FPS. A Steel penetrator at 400 FPS less? It's up there, but it ain't there.
@@MillionFoul I respectfully disagree. I’ve used dozens of M993 and it routinely destroys level IV armor from a 16” barrel velocity of about 27-2800 fps. Yes some plates will take M2AP at 3300 fps. Only the Adept Colossus plate has stopped M993 at over 3300 fps.
Given that no level III has stopped M80a1 at 3000 fps, 6.8’s design will require a good thick ceramic strike face to stop it and that generally means a level IV plate.
@@BuffRANGE I definitely agree it will pen level III plates, after all, so will a hot .25-06. Make no mistake. 6.8x51 is definitely in the range of M2 AP performance, but I just don't think it exceeds it enough to defeat armors which are rated to stop it with a safety factor.
Not that it matters particularly overmuch to the Army, since GOST armors Russian and Chinee soldiers wear are not really Level IV equivalent.
@@MillionFoul the XM1158 as far as the US propaganda tells us is superior in performance to M993 which M993 is vastly superior to M2AP in regards to personal armor penetration. If the 6.8 tungsten variant is of similar model and getting 3,000fps + from the 13” it’s going to put a lot of personal armor at a huge disadvantage :)
@@BuffRANGE Supposedly it's basically tubgsten core M80A1. From what I understand, that won't happen for the 6.8 cartridge (at least initially) because steel core aummintion is significantly cheaper than tungsten core ammunition and they are planning wide adoption.
We'll have to see of course, the Amry is a fan of having random wierdo speciality rounds, but not always a fan of buying them.
If you use the steel tipped projectiles like the ones in m855a1 this will easily go through level 4
Unlikely. Some Level IV plates have been shown to withstand M2 AP and M993 at over 3300 FPS. 2900-300 with a steel core isn't going to cut it.
I should just start calling .277 spear spicy .270 winchester. I realize there hasn't been a huge blip in the threat matrix where dudes who wear body armor were putting deer hunters on their list of possible adversaries, but this was clearly an oversight on their part.
I'm thinking that the Army will want to use a similar 2-piece bullet to the M855A1 & M80A1. Those should sail right through Level IV ballistic plates.
I completely agree. Thanks for watching!
Some Level IV plates have been shown to withstand M2 AP and M993 at over 3300 FPS. 2900-300 with a steel core isn't going to cut it.
@@MillionFoul M993 would be VERY distance sensitive. I wouldn't expect it to consistently penetrate a Level IV plate. Hence, why the Army is stepping it up to the 6.8x51.
@@skookapalooza2016 Well they usually test at about 12 meters, so I don't think energy retention is an issue in regards to testing penetration. The 6.8x51 should retain energy further, but what it can't do at zero it won't do at 300.
It would be interesting be intersting what the forensics say that 1st shot bulge hit will do to a body as that is a bit more than a Bruce Lee 1 inch punch.
Is that not dead but down permently, with huge internal damage, or is that dead without even pen?
Would be so cool to do that again with a forensic dummy than clay.
Where did you find it was supposed to defeat lvl 4 body armor in a official document? everything I have found talks vaguely about lethality and effectiveness over distance. Only things I have found on being able to defeat armor is journalist parroting each other.
I'd like to see what happens on level 4 steel plate
I'm still not convinced that this is going to fully replace the m4. It will probably replace the scar h if anything. You got to realize that with bigger bullets comes more recoil and it's a heavier gun. A-1 remember how the bald Future Weapons a guy marketed 6.8 SPC incorrectly as a 556 killer. What it actually was was a 7.62x39 killer.
I haven't watched the video yet, but people need to stop saying that this round was designed to “defeat” body armor. That is entirely not true.
It was designed in response to body armor. As body armor technology advances, nothing is going to get through. The Chineese are rumored to have exoskeleton armor that can withstand sustained 5.56 fire without affecting the soldier wearing it.
A 5.56 round at range does not transfer enough energy to hurt the target through the armor. 6.8x51mm does.
It might not be lethal, but you are definitely going to feel it.
Why not a 16" barrel?
Assuming the US army will get the hybrid case with steel penetrators on the bullets id say theres a pretty good chance it will pen lvl4
The fact that it didn't penetrate is really inconsequential. There is a thing called behind armor blunt trauma (BABT) which is injury caused by the transfer of kinetic energy from the round through the armor and into the body. There are a number of studies that have analyzed how it works and the conclusions usually are that a heavy and fast enough projectile can still cause an injury debilitating enough to put someone out of a fight.
2900FPS is pretty amazing out of a 13 inch barrel. Really want to pick this gun up in the 13 inch 308 version when it’s available. Then get the .277 barrel at a later point. I really like how easy the barrel swap is going to be one this rifle. I wish it was coming in 1k less heard it’s going to be around 4300.00
Yeah I really want the rifle but that $4300 pricetag is definitely gonna sting
My concern with these barrel conversions is that history shows more often than not, other manufacturers made these claims of upcoming conversion kits, but they were never made available.
@@billydanzz Other manufacturers? Sig has offered barrel conversions multiple times and never delivered…. lol
@@sethrich5998 Lol..sheesh. Never knew Sig was also in that group of companies.
@@billydanzz MCX promised conversions, took years and rarely available. MPX promised caliber conversions, never happened. When asked about it, Sig just said they sell complete rifles fast enough, so it isn’t worth taking parts to support conversions. They’ll sell you the idea to buy the rifle, but never actually offer the conversion kit.
How about lv 4 steel plate
i wonder if they're going to load 6.8x51mm with the same bullet type that M855A1 and M80A1 use. If they do, it would likely shred that plate.
I agree and I would speculate that it would be something similar. Thanks for watching!
You can see those projectiles (and higher threat ones like M993 and M2 AP) being fired into Level Iv plates at over 3300 FPS, and they usually do not penetrate.
The amount of destruction this would do to your internal organs and bones is insane. As AK Jesus once said “you don’t necessarily need to penetrate armor to be lethal, you just need to smack it hard enough to vibe check their internal organs”
I’ll keep my 308 tavor 7 and galil ace