Evidences of the Book of Mormon: Complexity
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- ***Correction: The use of Harold Bloom’s description of Joseph Smith as a “religious genius” in this video may mislead viewers into thinking Bloom was referring directly to the Book of Mormon. Instead, Bloom’s praise was for Joseph Smith’s theological ideas from the Nauvoo period. Bloom actually found the Book of Mormon to be tedious and admitted that he hadn’t seriously read it. However, the essence of the video’s claim is still valid. Over the years, many critics of the Book of Mormon have acknowledged its merits. For instance, Dan Vogel and Brent Lee Metcalfe have described it as possessing “impressive literary, theological, psychological, and spiritual qualities,” and they remarked upon the “beauty and brilliance of [its] sermons, visions, and other imagery.” Also, it should be understood that the video isn’t claiming these or any specific individuals changed their minds concerning the merits of the Book of Mormon, but rather that critics generally have changed their perspective over the years.
Source: Dan Vogel and Brent Lee Metcalfe, eds., “Editors’ Introduction,” in American Apocrypha: Essays on the Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books, 2002), ix.
For further information on the evolution of the critical reception of the Book of Mormon, see Daniel C. Peterson, “Editor’s Introduction: ‘In the Hope That Something Will Stick’: Changing Explanations for the Book of Mormon,” FARMS Review 16, no. 2 (2004): xi-xxxv; Book of Mormon Central, “Why is the Book of Mormon a Classic? (Ether 12:25),” KnoWhy 63 (March 26, 2016).***
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Some early critics of the Book of Mormon ridiculed its literary qualities. Over time, however, it’s become clear that the Book of Mormon is actually a remarkably complex and sophisticated text. This can be demonstrated on dozens of different levels, and when looked at together, its impressive literary features offer excellent evidence that Joseph Smith truly translated it by the gift and power of God.
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I was an atheist know-it-all college student and the Book of Mormon converted me to Jesus Christ brought this prideful boy on his knees in repentance and tasted and knew of the true God and I became born again, a new creature in Christ. I served a mission after that as I wanted to proclaim what I found out to everyone. All my friends turned their backs on me. My own mother threw my scriptures across the room slamming me in the head with them. But I knew it was true. The Spirit of God changed me forever. I'll never be the same and I'll deserve hell should I ever deny it, God as my witness.
Thank you for sharing your personal testimony of conversion. God bless
God bless you Adam. I have gone through similar instances.
So the BOM saved you when the Bible could not...Go Joe...
@@johnrowley310 Jesus saves. Read both and you’ll learn that!
@@johnrowley310 We don't know if he ever read the Bible; he doesn't say. The Book of Mormon teaches the same doctrine as the original Church that Christ started.
The Lord says that we will "know them by their fruits". And "by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost, ye may know the truth of all things". Look at the "fruits" of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and see for yourself.
May I add: you will find what you look for. If you go in looking for faults, you will find them. If you look for great works, you will find them. Let God tell you what is true. ❤
The Book of Mormon, is famously said to be one of those books people have an opinion of even without having read it.
That’s true
@@Irvingdector
that is because the ridicuI0us nature 0f m0rm0nism precedes it wherever it g0es
and every0ne kn0ws it was invented by a kn0wn charIatan
the detaiIs 0nIy make it Iess beIievabIe
it is s0 far fetched it`s n0t surprising he was assasinated
I've read it cover to cover many times, and I don't think it's true.
@@LockeDemosthenes2 I know it's true and I've read it cover to cover multiple times and I'm reading a replica of the 1830 and it is completely true.
@@elderinisrael My pet Cureloms and Cumoms agree with you. Please tell me that you have a barge tightener, I need to make it tight, like unto a dish for underwater exploration.
But in all seriousness -- does it bother you that they changed it so many times, even the 1830 versions? Or does it bother you that he used supernatural techniques, witchcraft, to obtain the book for treasure?
I’ve been an inactive church member for almost 5 years because I’ve questioned so much about the church and I have been searching for evidence like this for a very long time! I want to believe so badly that The Church is true, and these videos have got me leaning more towards the possibility that it is! They make so much sense! Thank you so much for making these! Please continue making them because the world needs this kind of education more than ever! God Bless!💜
Good luck in your quest. I thought of suggesting a couple of sources that might help you, however I'm being restrained from doing so knowing you are being guided at your own pace of wanting to know.
You don't need to believe the church is true. Just get a testimony of the BoM. They are separate things, even though some would believe you to think otherwise. I honor and hold it to be a true book, but I no longer subscribe to the church, and many of its cultural practices and judgements. God is the God of the Whole Earth and he has no limits. He reveals as he wills and to whom and whatever people He wants. Don't box God. Circumscribe all truth into one great whole.
Sorry Freemasonry, satanic symbolism and so forth doesn't convince me
I wish you well in your gospel journey! I would give one piece of advice. Facts, evidence, science, none of those things are capable of proving truth beyond a shadow of a doubt, so we need faith or belief to fill in the gaps. That goes for any religion or belief system. I've found that choosing to believe from the very start, can make the answers come to a lot easier. Sort of like building a house. First, you've got to build your framework of faith, everything that's necessary, and then you can add little facts and answers to questions like insulation, carpets, furniture, stuff that makes the house easier to live in, and makes you want to stay living in it more. Sorry if that was kind of a silly analogy but it's that best one I could come up with.
My dear friend, believe whatever makes you happy. But the book was plagiarized, there's no archeological evidence, Joseph was a fraud that married children, Brigham Young endorsed racism and the church acts like a corporation l
An 18 year old un-educated boy wouldn’t be able to “make up” the Book of Mormon. He was able to translate it solely because of God
There's so much covered in this short video. Very well done, The Book of Mormon is so rich and beautiful. It makes me really grateful for everything all these prophets have done and what God has done for us to have this scripture to stand beside the Bible exactly in the times when the world would need it as another witness
You guys are awesome!! Thank you for taking the time out of your life to defend such miraculous work. I wish I was as articulate as you guys when defending this gospel. Great job!!!
37 years ago when I was 15 I read and prayed to ask God if the Book of Mormon is true. I felt the Holy Ghost testify to me with great power that this record is true and that I should live this gospel. The Spirit I felt at that you age was the most amazing and wonderful event of my life. It is super cool to see this video and these evidences but I know from God that this record is true. I challenge all to read the Book of Mormon and let God testify to them of its truthfulness.
It'd be great to have spanish subtitles (and other languages) to share this with my family in South America. Keep doing stuff like this please! 🔥🔥🔥
I agree with everything here but I would like to add that it has the power to change peoples lives for the better. On my mission I saw people that gave up drugs, drinking, immorality, and turn from their former life to turn towards Christ and that is truly amazing.
Oops, I forgot to mention how much I LOVED this video. Thank you so much for making it. It is amazing, the best yet, and I look forward to more.
This is very well done. I really like the fact that critics were also addressed, as this is just what is needed in this day and age. Those critical of the Boof of Mormon really need to analyze why. More often it is their own rejection of Mormonism rather than the Book of Mormon itself. I know the Book of Mormon to be the word of God, just as Joseph Smith claimed it was.
Thanks Anna, this is a wonderful comment. The Book of Mormon has been such a blessing in my life.
Robert Swenson - so how much of the Book of Mormon have you read Robert? I read it everyday with the Bible and it enriches my life. I feel the Holy Spirit in every page. The Bible even speaks of it coming forth. When you come to the Lord with full purpose of heart, and a desire to serve Him, He can and will guide you. But you can’t ask about the truth of a book you have not read. I invite you to make this a more diligent effort on your part. It is blessing millions of people all over the world. It cold be you. Think about it. Read it. God bless you in your search.
I recently finished the Book of Mormon again this year. But this time I was studying it more thoroughly. I read and marked a lot of fascinating things that I never saw before.
I was nearing the end when I followed a footnote that led me to John 10:20-21
(Think of Joseph Smith in these verses.) "And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him? Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?"
The "EYES OF THE BLIND." Does the Book of Mormon open one's eyes? Yes! Plainly.
I was not expecting the Bible to tell me the Book of Mormon was true.
So now I'm in the middle of reading the New Testament and may I add, I'm surprised on how Mormon this book is!
Lucifer’s Apron
When Lucifer appears in the Mormon temple ceremony he is wearing an apron. When Adam asks him about it Lucifer boldly replies: “It is an emblem of my power and Priesthoods” (25:15). So, there is no ambiguity here-the apron has nothing to do with God; it is an emblem of Satan’s power and priesthoods. A few minutes later, when they hear God coming, Lucifer tells Adam and Eve to make themselves aprons and hide (25:45).
Adam replies, “Come, let us hide,” and at that point in the ceremony everyone is told to put on their aprons. And they do. So, for the rest of the ritual, on top of their temple undergarments with the masonic-type markings, and on top of their white temple clothes, temple patrons wear a dark green apron-in obedience to Lucifer and symbolizing his power and priesthoods.
This stands in stark contrast to what happens in the Bible: God removes the fig-leaf coverings that Adam and Eve make and replaces them with animal skins He provides. This foreshadows and represents the covering for sins provided by Jesus when he was slain on the cross as the Lamb of God (see John 1:29; Hebrews 9:22).
Will We Listen to Lucifer or Jesus?
Lucifer says, “Make you aprons.” In effect, do some of it yourself-it’s the only way to preserve some semblance of pride, dignity, and self-respect, and to gain for yourself what you need. That is quite consistent with the instructions every Latter-day Saint is given before going through the temple endowment ceremony.
Your Endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord, which are necessary for you, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and the tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and thus gain your eternal exaltation. (7:05)
Jesus said, “It is finished” (John 19:30). In effect, “I’ve done it for you, all of it. Now are you willing to humble yourself enough to simply take it?”
As long as you are trying to contribute anything of your own to merit God’s provision of eternal life in His presence, you are rejecting the gift of Jesus Christ’s finished work on your behalf.
Maybe the reason your life and relationships are not all you know they should and could be is because you’re still spiritually tied to Lucifer’s apron strings. When you’re ready to be free here’s what you do. Call out in humility to Jesus, tell him you’re sorry for trying to contribute to your own worthiness and that you accept God’s forgiveness, perfection and eternal life as free gifts. When you do Jesus will cut your spiritual ties to Lucifer forever.
Jesus said: "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest” (Matt. 11:28). (Nowhere in the Scriptures does Jesus say anything about an apron…or grips…or signs and tokens.) You can trust Jesus.
The church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is indeed the everlasting gospel as stated in the book of 'Revelation' below
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Revelation
@@janicebaice6870 The gospel is “everlasting” in that is an eternally unchanging message. False doctrines come and go, and new teachings are like wind and waves that toss the unsuspecting every which way (Ephesians 4:14). Especially chaotic and dangerous is the doctrine of the Antichrist and his false prophet in Revelation 13. Countering the lies and false teaching of the beast is the everlasting gospel in Revelation 14. The message of salvation through faith in Christ is eternal truth; it is as solid and unchanging as God Himself, and those who believe the gospel will reap everlasting benefits.
The CJCLDS has a false gospel. They ridicule Jesus Christ and claim he is the brother of Lucifer. The Bible calls this blasphemy. The brother of Lucifer never died on a cross.
Jesus said your sins would not be forgiven if you did not believe He was God.
John 8:19 So they were saying to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.”
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
It should have led you to this instead...
Galatians 1:8, ESV: "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the ONE we preached to you, let him be accursed."
If you truly feel that your false religion can stand up on its own, watch the Bible vs. Joseph Smith. (Amazon prime)
I dare you...
The Bible is the only authority that stands. The BOM contradicts it in every way. You cannot become a god. You cannot save yourselves from your sin and you cannot just throw out parts of God's Revelation that don't suit your doctrines.
But the Bible also says that anyone tries to change the gospel, even an angel, that it is from the devil. One hand you say the Bible is corrupt and not true gospel but on the other hand you quote it when it supports your opinion.
Even in New Testament times, people didn’t believe the divinity of Jesus as the Messiah. Some people thought the things he said were very strange (or complete blasphemy). In John 6 He said that He was the bread from heaven, “the bread that I give is my flesh… whoso eateth of my flesh and drinketh of my blood hath eternal life” and many stopped following him afterward. He even asked them “doth this offend you?” Reasoning only in your mind and not with your heart and spirit will not allow truth to enter. It takes an open mind and heart.
What is important to me is "is it of God or not?" If it is not, then who cares about all this other stuff?
I guess there are a mulititude of things going on, eg how did Jesus get up to Heaven without back pack jet propulsion unit, or why did he have the wounds in his hands and feet , when we speak of a perfect resurrected Body, or even wine making, when many back then were alcoholics at a wedding, Ive heard even that using your Son as a sacrifice was the most disgusting thing one could do, not my words but Richard Dawkins. I even recall a Doco recently on NDE when this particular person went to paradise , came back and recounted the experiance, he said that the ones there were of the same body an blood of christ, I guess thats true because we all have the spirit of christ in us, having taken the emblems here on earth to signify his people thru thr ordinance.
Great job on the video! I still think it's crazy people refuse to read the book for themselves and instead resort to trying to find faults with it or those that were involved in the translation. Love this book, love the whole Bible, and love the continuing revelation that Christ bestows upon all of his followers who are of an open heart and a willing mind.
Neil home:how do you love the bible if LDS teaching supersedes the bible. the LDS jesus was once a man like you and me (KING FOLLET DISCOURSE)and PROGRESSED to Godhood(he wasnt always God) the BIBLICAL jesus is God ETERNALLY ,PAST ,PRESENT AND FUTURE.There was NEVER a time that jesus wasnt God....
I read it. Best book ever. Now I know the next time someone gives me anything to do with religion, to just burn it in my backyard
@@Pugkin5405lol. What the?!
@@sevensickszero6112interesting take. Have you read the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ from cover to cover without any biases or negativity in your mind?
@@dcarts5616 Hi?
You show an image of Joseph Smith dictating the book from the seer stone in his hat. Why did God and his prophets go through all the effort of creating and protecting the plates if Joseph didn’t even need them?
One idea I've been thinking about is he probably put the seer stone in his hat just like what we do with our phone when we put our hand over it-he was blocking the light outside do he could see the (even just Spiritual) light from the stone better.
If you are reading this comment section and have not yet read the Book of Mormon, let me call attention to one fact and then mention my experience. Critics of the Book of Mormon always make the same old claim: that Joseph Smith made it all up. Overlooking a mountain of evidence making it impossible for ANYONE of the early 19th century to invent that book, these critics, you will notice, always write with contempt. You will feel their hatred. And hatred cannot be inspired of God. One question they will never be able to answer is this: Why would a man give his life in order to FOOL people... into BEING GOOD??? No one tries to con others into coming to Christ. Doesn’t happen. And yet there will be No doubt in your mind after reading the book that its entire purpose is to bring people to Christ and help them live better lives. Another question these critics cannot answer is this: How did that book, if it were a con, convince me and millions of others that is IS true scripture and cause us to change their lives for the better? That book rescued me from a life of selfishness and self-destruction, and no one can say otherwise. I know the Book of Mormon is true because of the overwhelming evidence in favor of it (If you’re looking FOR that), because it has convinced the logic of my mind, and because it has convinced the feelings of my heart. And this happened in a way, difficult to describe, that made me CERTAIN that the force or fact and force of feeling came from God. Don’t listen to critics who need the book to be false in order to justify their rejection of it. Read the book for yourself, prayerfully, and with the intent to know the truth, not to verify an assumption. God will step in and help you know that He authored the Book of Mormon through ancient prophets. He did for me.
bkgoulding I’ve read the BoM many times. It’s very poorly written and mainly copied from other similar books that were around at the time. There were no horses, sheep or elephants living in the America’s at that time. There were no steel swords, chariots and massive battles. Nothing has been found. DNA has been checked and the Indians did not come from Hebrew stock. Joseph Smith put his head in a hat and dictated the book and there were no gold plates used in the translation. You may read it a million times and get a witness, but the Jews also get a witness the Tora is true and the Muslims get a similar witness the Quran is true and so on but it don’t make it so. Joseph Smith made it up as well as the Book of Abraham and the Book of Moses. He also made up the D&C and his own translation of the Bible. The same way he made up his ability to find treasure.
Sorry dude but your argument doesn't hold up. Joseph didn't selflessly go e up his life for a cause. He destroyed a printing press and was arrested. That's hardly "selfless". Also, I read the Book of Mormon. It's plaigarized. Heavily. There's plenty of evidence against the Book. And Millions of people believe in the Torah and the Quran. Your points aren't valid.
Robert Swenson this is not true.
Robert Swenson everything you say. You never read The Book of Mormon. We can see that. So, you have no right to say this things.
@Robert Swenson is the bible also disqualified?
Jaw drop. That was one impressive video. Thank you for making this! Incredible!
seek the truth and the truth will sent you free
Hey cade isnt it ironic I seen this. We attended the same ward now lol
Is Kwaku El, like Jor-El and Kal-El, from Krypton?
It always gets me how these so called evangelicals are the most rude, vile, twisted commenters on all these type articles. They claim if you don't believe what they believe you are going to hell. Yet, hell seems to be exactly what I get from there comments about their religion. Jesus Christ never preached in the manner these people do. They say do not trust in the Holy Ghost, only the bible. Yet, they all have different interpretations of what the Bible says. The Latter-Day Saints say to read The Book of Mormon yourself and pray about it, and ask God if it's true. In contrast, these vile so called Christian commenters say, you don't need to pray, just believe us. If people like Robert Swenson and others like him are representative of what they think a Christian is, I don't want to be one.
KevlarX2 Haha yeah. If these so called “Christian” guys are going to heaven, then I’d rather be in hell with the people who AREN’T yelling and gnashing their teeth at others.
@KevlarX2 - Very well said.
@Robert Swenson Thats just a claim or a hypothesis not a fact.
@Robert Swenson No, that's not what I was saying. Christ visited the Americas. And we aren't Mormon. Its the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. We believe in Christ, the same Christ in the Bible. The Book of Mormon is another proof of Christ. The stick of Joseph and the Stick of Judah. The Book of Mormon fulfills Prophecy.
@Robert Swenson okay, first off it was to correct minor grammatical errors, along with adding chapters, chapter summary's.
"The intricate structure and detailed complexity of The Book of Mormon seem far better explained as the work of several ancient writers using various written sources over the space of centuries than exploding suddenly from the mind of a barely educated manual laborer on the American frontier." -- Daniel Peterson
DrTerminus “The horses in the Book of Mormon could probably be tapirs or something.”- Daniel Peterson
Oh Daniel Petersen, Mormon apologist who said there was no suppression of the first vision accounts, completely denying the fact that Joseph Fielding Smith tore out the part of the first vision account from Joseph Smith's diary, hiding it away in a safe, only realizing it once word got out?
Remember Oliver helped and he was a school teacher
@@lynnanderson7146ho was a scribe prior to when Joseph met Oliver? Also, Oliver never took credit for the BoM nor did he deny how he swore it came about, even as one who left the church.
@@stelladavis7832did the church hide it or did a person lock it away for another purpose? We still had many other accounts from Joseph or from an interviewer of Joseph about the first vision. Joseph knew he was being quoted and interviewed, you think he didn’t know that the record of what he said and wrote about the first vision in each instance wouldn’t get out? You’re disingenuous if you think he didn’t describe what happened accurately in each account, even the one that JFS “hid” from us. I love the Joseph Smith Papers, they deflate many a grand accusation and argument. I love that I can read them whenever I want to.
For those who say the Book of Mormon is NOT from a divine source, to what source could you ascribe the Book of Mormon? This video lists many of the arguments that must be overcome in order to disprove the Origin of the Book of Mormon as anything other than from divine source. So, If someone wants to disprove the Book of Mormon They would have to disprove these evidences AND THEN, He or She must find evidences in favor of a different Origin.
If you cannot do these TWO things (1. Disprove the BoM's divine source, and 2. Prove a different source), then YOU MUST accept the DIVINE SOURCE as the most probable source. If I could quote Sherlock Holmes, "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
If you need suggestions for other options to explore AFTER you have somehow disproved evidences sited in this video; let me make some suggestions for OTHER ORIGINS below, and explain few of the many challenges you have to overcome for each.
1. Joseph Smith was A GENIUS.
- Why did he pretend it was true?
- Why did he include thing like cement buildings, when the experts at the time believed that cement buildings were not ever built by precolonial Americans?
- Why did his Genius expertise Fail in other areas of life? (Literacy- couldn't write his own letters. Politically- offended many leaders, and failed campaigns. Financially- obviously risky investments that failed, bankrupted banks...)
- What was his motivation for writing it?
- Power/Popularity? Then- What drove him to make up religious beliefs that HE knew would be offensive. (anti-slavery, polygamy, law of consecration, divine potential of mankind...)
- Money? Then- Why did he struggle with poverty for years, when so many followers would have given up their wealth if he simply requested it?
- To set up Polygamy? Then- Why did he write in the book of Jacob that it is an abomination with the rare exception when the Lord commands otherwise?
2. DEMONIC forces influenced Joseph Smith write the book and gave him the ability to do this.
- Why is the message of the Book of Mormon, and the teachings of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, centered around Jesus Christ, the Family, and doing good to all mankind?
- Why choose a christian, farm-boy, without education nor a highly influential position?
3. SOMEONE ELSE wrote the Book of Mormon and had Joseph Smith convince people of its divinity and start a church.
- Why did another person take the effort to write the Book to have Joseph Smith take all the credit for it?
- How did that person write the Book with all its evidences?
- Why choose a christian, farm-boy, without education nor a highly influential position?
- How did Joseph Smith receive these instructions/writings while still convincing others that He wrote them, along with the witnesses of the Book of Mormon?
4. ALIENS brainwashed Joseph Smith.
- I have actually heard an anti-mormon say this one before. All I have to say is... Really???
5. Joseph Smith is actually from the FUTURE and brought the Book of Mormon back with him.
- Again...Really???
Is there any other origin possibility that I missed?
@@enigmaticvaran6597 you would think that such a big, collaborated effort, by Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, Martin Harris, the Page family, other members of the Whitmer family, members of Joseph Smith's immediate family, including spouses/parents/siblings....you would think that ONE OF THEM would have tried to expose it. Martin Harris' wife was surely a sceptic, pressuring Martin Harris to turn over the translated portion of the Book of Lehi. Many looked at Joseph very skeptically. But those in his innermost circles, those involved in the translation process, never once said a word trying to expose the work as false.
@@Ether-pb5gb Because they were co- conspirators.
Let's look at #2 in your list. Satan works by deception. What is more deceptive, to offer someone a wooden nickel, or to give them a shiny coin that looks just like a nickel? What is more deceptive: to appear as a wild, rebellious, and wholly corrupt angel, or to appear as a good angel of mercy, but introduce subtle theories that misguide souls and lead them down a false path? Clearly, the latter is far more deceptive. You must vastly underestimate the power and ingenuity of evil angels, if you think they will appear with horns and pitchforks.
The Catholic Church is considered to be a leading representative of Christianity, by many millions. Think of her hospitals, the sacrifices and outward piety of her devotees, the great works of art adorning her halls, the work of the orders of charity, etc. Surely this must prove her to be divine? Not at all. How easily we are fooled by outward show.
That same church teaches that she has the authority to change God's law. She teaches that God burns the wicked forever in an eternally burning hell fire. She teaches that heretics should be punished by the state if they will not convert. She teaches that man can do works of supererogation (works beyond what God requires that can act as a store of goodness). She teaches that real faith is belief in the sacraments, and that salvation only comes through the ministration of her priesthood. She teaches that the common man cannot be trusted with the Bible, except it be interpreted for them by the priests. She teaches that Christ took a super-pure humanity that none of us have, and therefore, we cannot truly follow Him. And many, many other heresies that lead away from Christ, are all taught by her.
While it is nicer to be around people who are trying to do good, in the end, only those whose faith is that of Jesus Christ himself, and who keep the commandments of God as He intended them to be kept, will be safe. The rest will all follow the passions of their hearts, as their own nature, and Satan's influences work upon them. There are terrible times ahead that will lay bare all the hypocrisy that masks as true religion.
Having said all that, I have met some very wonderful people who come from the Mormon church or background, and I hope that their faith is sincere, and that in spite of any errors that they are surrounded with, they are, "by nature" following the truth because God has set the love of it in their hearts. But there is no stopping point for those who want to "follow the Lamb wherever He goes..." We cannot rest on a tradition and take pride in it...that is not resting in God and building on His foundation.
Look up and read “View of the Hebrews” by Ethan Smith
@@PracticaPropheticaI’ve truly had a powerful spiritual witness that this is the restored gospel. If you want, I can share more with you :)
Words of the Apostle Paul are nearly or exactly quoted supposedly
long before St. Paul’s birth in the Old Testament portion of the Book of
Mormon: “steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works” (Mosiah
5:15; 3:21/I Cor. 15:58); “mortal shall put on immortality” (Enos 27;46;
I Cor.15:53); “the nurture and admonition of the Lord” (Enos 1; l/Eph.
6:4).55
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from the Philippines. Your video presentation is excellent. May I know what software you are using?
Fawn Brodie called Joseph Smith "A MYTHMAKER of prodigious talent". That is hardly a compliment?
His early critics call him a blockhead and an idiot. His later critics called him prodigios and a genius. There in lies the compliment.
@@caseykaelin2352 Still don't hear a compliment?
Of all that content and you fixate upon what a critic THINKS of Joseph Smith. The point there was that the critics are still critics but now have to change their point of attack. There is enough evidence here for you to stop listening to the critics and start asking the Lord. It's your own journey enjoy.
When I first read the Book Of Mormon I remember it took me about as long to read it as it took the Prophet a Joseph Smith to translate it!!!!!!!!!! I remember that the missionaries that taught me the Gospel gave me the Book Of Mormon in February and I finished it in April and on April 16th I was baptized and joined the the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints!!!!!!! And even though I'm inactive my personal testimony of the Book Of Mormon and the Church and the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior is still the same!!!!!!!!!!! I encourage all nonmembers to please Read the Book Of Mormon along with the Bible plus pray 🙏 along and at the same time and learn from the missionaries because they do speak the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember that the truth will set you free and the Book Of Mormon contains the truth and the Gospel of Jesus Christ!!!!!!! So please open your spirit your heart and your mind so that you'll learn through the Spirit of the Holy Spirit!!!!!!! This is my personal testimony that I know that the Book Of Mormon is true and that the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is the true Church on the Earth 🌎🌍🌏 today!!!!!!!!!!!!! The missionaries know the truth and will speak it to you!!!!!!!!!!! Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for sharing your personal story, God is amazing and His scriptures are powerful!
Its crazy how the missionaries back in the day went to spread the gospel yet when it came to the blacks getting their covenanted rights, seems to be selective
I'm confused. The complexity of the book isn't evidence that it's accurate. There isn't archaeological evidence to back up simple of claims made in the book, such as horses and chariots in the Americas, let alone claims that some ancient Israelites migrated to the Americas. Being a literary genius capable of dictating a complex book is one thing, but I don't quite follow how the jump can be made to say it's undeniable proof that it's the word of god.
The video never claimed that the Book of Mormon's complexity is "undeniable proof that it's the word of god." The book's complexity provides good evidence that it was brought forth via miraculous means, and such a miraculous production invites belief that Joseph Smith's story about the book's origin and translation are valid. This in turn provides one (of many) valid reasons to make the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon a matter of sincere prayer and study.
Ralph,
Unlike most non-profit organizations, none of the executives working for Book of Mormon Central make any money from the organization. In many cases, they have volunteered their own time and money to help provide the funding necessary to make such resources available. And those who work full time for Book of Mormon Central are clearly not in it for the money. The salaries are very modest.
@@ryandahle541 maybe it would have been better to say that dictating a story doesn't indicate any heavenly intervention in itself, especially as many of the claims made therein (the animals and crops mentioned, the lack of smelting sites for metals, lack of chariots and metal weapons, how the Atlantic was crossed, battle at the foot of Camorah etc) can't be backed up by archaeological evidence, nor corroborated by native American or Amerindian accounts of their history. It's through studying that I've been brought to this video, but its explaination is disappointing. I know its a different book, but could you explain to me how the Joseph Smith's translation of Egyptian funeral scrolls is accurate? Without that, I find it impossible to believe the accuracy by which he could translate the plates for the BoM.
Ralph,
In the "About Us" tab on BMC's website it states "Book of Mormon Central is not an official part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but rather an independent organization." And contrary to your assertions, it does not receive "massive donations from the Church to produce content like this." As far as I know, BMC doesn't receive any funding from the Church.
The executives don't get any salary, period. It is all volunteer for them. Only the regular staff (researchers, web designers, video production team, etc.) get paid. As for modest salaries, I'm not going to throw numbers around, so let's just say it is not the type of job one takes for purely monetary incentives.
As far as I know, no one at FairMormon is receiving any type of "handsome compensation" for their research.
Adam,
Archaeology cuts both ways. Many things mentioned in the Book of Mormon are found in ancient America. And many things that people thought were wrong about the book, including a lack of archaeological support for some items of material culture etc., have flipped flopped. Archaeology, especially for ancient Mesoamerica (where most LDS scholars believe the Book of Mormon took place) is not very good at proving negatives based on an absence of evidence.
As for the "Egyptian funeral scrolls," there are a number of things in the Book of Abraham and its facsimiles that indicate ancient origin. That is a big topic, though, and I don't have time to explain my views about it. If you are truly interested in it, I recommend going through Jeff Lindsay's website for a primer on the types of evidences I am referring to.
www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Abraham.shtml
You Know what's very Great in this Video? It gets the attention of critics and that make themselves write a very long comments of which the Spirit can't be felt.
Sorry, I would rather see the deconstruction of a cult than feel the burning in the bosom to feel if a fake book is right!
😂
What a wonderful presentation! The Book of Mormon is a powerful witness of Jesus Christ. I know it is of God.
DrTerminus - with all do respect, but how? 😊
Well... It's plagiarized from the Bible, so I guess it is from "God". Whatever the Bible says it's "God".
Wonderful summation of Book of Mormon scholarship. One of the most influential books in my life, outside of the Book of Mormon itself, is Book of Mormon Authorship: New Light on Ancient Origins. Highly recommended. Keep up the great work!
read the original 1832 book of Mormon and todays book and you will see the truth and it will set you free
Leaping Leads the original 1832 book? You antimormons are so smart. I sure hope the church never publishes a critical edition of the Book of Mormon. Oh wait, they already have ... and The Book of Mormon is still true!
I regularly read an 1830 edition, in my view it's much clearer, there are some typos but the early modern English language is nice. I also have the original text version which is direct from the manuscript where it exists and from the printers manuscript, it's also excellent. If Leaping Leads thinks there is a vast difference between the meaning, and doctrine taught in those early versions and what we have now he is mistaken.
Thanks for sharing that, By the way what is the name of the song, playing behind?
Wonderful compilation, WOW - I thought my "Echoes and Evidences" book was detailed. Good job.
Not only did Joseph Smith repeatedly testify saying the book was translated by the gift and the power of God, he also suffered for it, was arrested for it, and eventually killed for it.
From the Futon What I meant by my comment was that he never refuted his claims, even in the face of death.
Sorry, you just said that he didn't have time to refute his claims because he was too busy handling a gun? What? I'm not understanding your argument. It sounds like you're just spitting out random things that actually have absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
From the Futon Again, you are rambling on about things that have nothing to do with my comment. Are you going to debate with me about what I said or just babble on and on to yourself about irrelevant matters?
From the Futon 👍
Nop nop the BOM never talks about the 3 degrees of glories...
Why do you suggest it ???
Just be more honest... Please!
The chart is just a visual to help people know what the video is talking about. You'll notice, though, that the specific aspects of the plan of salvation that are in the Book of Mormon are listed with specific references given, and then the animation gravitates all of those concepts into the first three stages of the diagram, thus visually clarifying which part of the plan is represented in the Book of Mormon.
"Intertextual relationships" not that difficult when ONE author writes the book........
Actually repeated stylometric analysis of the Book of Mormon consistently favors the idea that each book of the Book of Mormon was written by a separate author, each with their own writing style.
yeah I was thinking that too, haha, though it might be difficult to state something verbatim after going over a bunch of other stuff and not looking back at it, but they should have explained the idea with that one a little better
I'm absolutely amazed how something is purported as true but lacking historical facts! Fiction vs. Non.
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
If you don’t think it’s true then prove it. I’ll wait.
This is excellent! I'm so proud that you're setting the record straight for others who have doubts. Please research where this book takes place. Rod Meldrum, (Provo, UT), Wayne May and others, proves over and over the BofM happened in this great land of America not Central or South America! N America is the promised land. While you're at it, please as him about translating out of a hat.
Keep going dear friends you're doing a great job. God bless you.
Mark Twain described the Book of Mormon as such: "The book seems to be merely a prosy detail of imaginary history, with the Old Testament for a model; followed by a tedious plagiarism of the New Testament."
I can see what he meant. Nephi is clearly a reboot of Joseph from the Old testament. Sam is Benjamin. The 10 murmuring older brothers are consolidated into 2. His father is a prophet. He receives visions in dreams. His older bros resent him for it.
Twain said a lot more about the book. Most of it wasn't positive.
We now know that Chiasmus occur completely by accident. You can find them in books like A Tale of Two Cities and Sense & Sensability. The Book of Mormon doesn't have the most or even the longest Chiasmus. You can find a 40-line one in The First Book of Napoleon.
"...exploding suddenly from the mind of [Smith]" Except we know for a fact that it didn't. According to the journal of Joseph's mother, Smith was telling his family stories about these ancient people for years before he ever began dictating anything. Also, we know that much of the book was plagiarized from existing books of the time.
The Book of Mormon also says that people with dark skin are cursed by god. 2nd Nephi 5:20-25, Jacob 3:8, and Enos 1:20. That's why the church didn't grant equal rights to black mormons until 1978 Care to comment on that?
Why not put this energy into proving the BoM?
@@yevz6360 that is called shifting the burden of proof . The one making the claim the book is correct needs to provide the proof . Not the other way around
@@daniellima2973 i’m merely making the point proving the book would be far more noteworthy than not
@Yevz ...Maybe if your goal was to prove it, sure?
Joseph Smith did ordain black men to the priesthood, Brigham Young and his followers changed the practice but that wasnt Joseph's teachings, and furthermore didnt have inspiration in the Book of Mormon. The predominant view that ive heard is that the Lamanites were afflicted with a kind of skin blight or cancer, this isnt a melanin vs non-melanin issue. The Nephites pure skin represented their righteousness and was a sign of a covenant like circumcision in the OT. Just as the Bible taught we might all be spiritually circumcised, (heirs to a covenant), the Nephites taught that 'anybodys skin could be made pure', meaning that anybody could join in with the covenant.. which sounds like the opposite of racism. Furthermore the Nephites and Lamanites were very genetically similar and that doesnt leave a whole lot of room for racism. Maybe discrimination of religious or national/tribal natures, but there just wouldnt be enough of a racial divide for racism to be an issue.
It’s nuts. This books shouldn’t exist but it does.
The Book is blue, and the Book is true. Hurrah for Zion!
Oh my goodness! I just came from one of the other videos on this channel, the comments of which was simply TEEMING with negative, rude comments about the church. So good to see that that isn't the case with this video. Thank you everyone for veing kind and uplifting. I do care if you share our beliefs or not, being respectful is just a good thing to do. Thank you all!
Any lie is always complex it doesn't make it true....
Haha yeah. You could argue the same with the new testament.
The more complex a lie is, the easier it is to expose. If The Book of Mormon was a lie, it would have been exposed as such, the church would have fallen a long time ago.
@@elderinisrael The lie WAS a long time ago , it Fell back then.
I really don't know if the book of mormon is true or not but this video could help well done
All I ever hear is it is true. TRUE TRUE TRUE. I know it's true, mom said it was true pray it to be true. It has to be true. It must be true. TRUE TRUE TRUE. How come we don't think of the Bible in this true, true true way??? Because you don't have to be mind controlled to believe in the Bible. If the Mormon church can get you to call The BOM true. Then they can get you to believe everything they throw at you...Good luck with explaining to our Lord how you are on the way to become a god.....
beautiful video! I'd love to see the full presentations shown here
I LOVE reading the Book of Mormon!! Wonderful video!
Amazing, just amazing. If only people would read the book and think and pray
I have sincerely prayed and the true and living God of the Bible has told me the Book of Mormon is false.
That’s not how it works. If you need to see or feel something to know it’s true, you’re always in unbelief.
These are great!! I can't wait to see more! For those who truly want to find answers please study both sides of this topic in depth. From the research I have been able to perform. I am convinced on a logical level that this book did not come from 1-3 men in the matter of a few months. Please read the Church scholars work as in depth as Anti-Mormon literature. You might be surprised what you learn.
Why would gods true church have such a sketchy history from the get go. Why would he withold the priesthood from children of a different tone of skin, but impress upon his prophet to change that when civil rights issues were becoming addressed heavily in the 70s. You'd think the true church would be ahead of it's time in setting the example and being the standard of truth. Does polygamy devalue women? Why do the majority of members feel weird and awkward in the temple instead of comforted and enlightened lmao.
@OKLAHOMAWILD EDC - I can't think of a religion that doesn't have a sketchy history from the get go. The Israelites adopted the worship of El and YHWH from pagan religion(s). That is the foundation of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
The Lord of the Rings Trilogy was very complex also. Does that make it Scripture?
deskjockie49
If J. R. R. Tolkien and others had claimed to their dying breaths that it was, if he had only taken about 2 months to produce it, if the text itself was about 100 times more complex, if it had any spiritual value and teachings, and most importantly, if the Spirit of God testified of its truthfulness to literally every single reader who read and asked if it were true with a sincere heart, real intent, and faith in Christ...then yes, it would definitely be scripture.
But the Lord of the Rings has none of those qualities, so it's definitely not.
From the Futon, you dismissing it as a hoax is your freedom of choice. However, you are a hypocrite because your argument goes both ways. You say we are wrong and you are right because you claim you "studied it more objectively and diligently." I've read the Book of Mormon more than twenty times, and I'm still a believer; can I not say I've studied it more diligently, and therefore you are wrong? From my own personal experience, people who dismiss the Book of Mormon as a hoax do not understand what they read or have been misinformed by other sources or both. For example, the BoM says that a part of the Hebrew colony were cursed with a skin of darkness, and people point to this as proof that it is racist because it says Africans and other cultures of color are curse, and therefore the book is false. But the curse has nothing to do with Africans and other cultures; the curse only concerns itself with a Hebrew group. Another example, some say the book is false because it says the Nephites were using coins, and there are no Nephite coins discovered in the Americas. The problem with this example is that the BoM doesn't say the Nephite used coins. It says they measured weights of gold and silver to determine their value. You don't measure weights of coins because the value is already inscribed on the coin. These are just one of many, many examples of foolish conclusions and arguments I've come across over the years.
From the Futon, if you are going accuse Joseph Smith of being a conman, please provide proof that he printed fake money and more. Better yet, show me a conviction affidavit of his conviction, or tell me what city and county or state has an affidavit of Smith's conviction so I can go and look at it. I've asked these questionsnmany times before and all I hear is: crickets. C'mon, provide evidence from the archives, not from some anti-Mormon source that only spews filth, but can't back it up with actual proof.
I don't need to read Fawn Brodie's book because she ignores many facts and jumps to conclusions without any factual support. For example, she says that J. Smith had married women sealed to him to be his wives in the afterlife and therefore he had sex with these women who were married to other men. The sex part of her claims has no evidence to support it. In fact, it's the evidence supports the opposite, that although he was sealed to these marry women, it did not mean slept with them. One support for the contrary is that he sealed himself to a single woman for the afterlife, then asked another man to marry the single woman he was sealed to for this life only. What the evidence shows is that Smith did not marry these married, he was only sealed to them for the afterlife. Also, she also brought up many facts that I already know. For example, she mentions polygamy. Heck, I already know the church once practiced polygamy. So, why should I read about something I already know? She just drew up her own conclusions without factual backing.
"Did the Burning in the Bosom thing work in calculus classes, too?"
How silly. What does it have to do with calculus? But I guess it's because you have no argument at all. And before you even think that I've forgotten, I asked to tell me where I can get a court affidavit of Smith's convictions. Did you find out where I could get a court affidavit of Joseph Smith's convictions?... (crickets)
So you've got physical historical evidence?
Yeah. The Book of Mormon is its own proof.
NO ONE in over 200 years has been able to disprove it as Sacred Scripture.
Are there PDF's or anything I can get with the diagrams illustrated in the video?
They gathered all their references here: bookofmormoncentral.org/blog/watch-evidence-of-the-book-of-mormon-internal-complexity
I think Joseph Smith is a lot smarter than what people knew think he was more educated
Here is an article from BMC on Joseph Smith's education:
knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/why-would-god-choose-an-uneducated-man-to-translate-the-book-of-mormon
There are many journals from people during his day that describe him as barely educated and even struggled to read. However he was trained in some way by the angel Moroni, one day each year prior to taking the book for translation. Perhaps he was A genius beyond Einstein because even his most popular theories took years to prove.
So are the people cursed by God still stuck down with dark skin? The sinners if you will?
Because Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, David Whitmer, Martin Hail, etc. were all living in an age where people could be hold views and opinions that most would find ridiculously racist today.
I have checked your claims in this video and you have provided no real evidence. The book says it's TRUE therefore it's TRUE? PS...... the plan of salvation isnt in the book of mormon.
A great man will know the truth when he realizes the evidence but the greatest of all men know the truth by faith and prayer. The BOM isn't true because UA-cam's make videos and scholars workout fine details, the BOM is true because it is. Joseph Smith is a true prophet. The truth doesn't stop being the truth just because people don't believe it. Critics will be humbled but it will be okay, even those who fight nonsensically against the church will be welcomed with smiles and charity and peace.
J McGlynn there are many cases in history in which a person is slandered and there are rumors and lies spread to turn the public away from them. Some of the thing you have heard about Joseph may be true, some may not. But Joseph was human. He was not perfect.
Regardless of Joseph’s standing, or even the validity of the book he translated, the Book of Mormon teaches nothing but goodness. People read Harry Potter because it’s entertaining, but also because it has good morals. The characters learn to choose light, and it uplifts those who read it. It’s not gospel, but that’s no reason to slander it and claim that it’s of the devil. The same should be true for the Book of Mormon. Why would someone with malicious intent create a book with no ill will towards anyone?
To build on what you said, well your point is a higher spiritual point, but to build on the unimpeachable logic which I am about to give that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God, I point to the first ever fulfillment of Revelation 12. (see LDS Revelation 12 Utube video)
Joseph Smith could not have chosen to be born 27 years before the first ever fulfillment of Revelation 12. Joseph Smith simply did not know Revelation 12 was being fulfilled during Rosh Hashanah blowing of the Shofar representing new word from God when Maroni gave him the gold plates. Joseph Smith could not have thought at age 13 that I am going to orchestrate events and stories to harmonize with the first ever Revelation 12 event.
When you watch the video I suggested you will see that God organized the planets and stars to show us that Joseph Smith is His prophet, and that the Book of Mormon is true. Of course you can put this unimpeachable proof in front of a person and they will still reason it away in their own mind. These same people find a way to believe idols are somehow gods, one wokeism is somehow morally superior to God's commandments.
This is a great video! :) Well done!
Is there a place where we can learn more about how to read the Book of Mormon with the knowledge of specific Hebraisms in mind? A free course? A Book of Mormon Central essay or other resource?
Here is a link to find out more information on Hebraisms archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/search/google/Hebraisms#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=Hebraisms&gsc.sort= and Here is a free book you can read online from BYU all about Hebraisms in the Book of Mormon
rsc.byu.edu/book/preserved-translation
Excellent videos. Thank you.
‘Background’ music is annoyingly loud and needs to move ‘to the background’.
Why do people erroneously state that JS was uneducated ?? Do some self dilligent research and you will discover that one of his parents was in fact ( documented) a school teacher. Pardon the pun, but leave no stone unturned in your quest to seek out the truth for yourself...
The Book of Mormon is the word of God, by it's fruit it has proven it's veracity!
Even if you didn't believe in the Book Of Mormon, it is a magnificent book translated or not. Joseph Smith was a very young man whom I don't believe would have been able to write it all by himself were it not for divine intervention. Just my opinion of course.
If you think the Book of Mormon is "magnificent" you haven't read enough books. It's repetitive beyond belief, boring, full of absurdities, irrelevant information, and terrible writing.
@@DoctorZisIN 1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
@@Ether-pb5gb Formula for the book of Mormon: Take any bible passage, copy it, make it more wordy, repeat words and sentences like "natural man", "forever", "becometh" and "submit", sprinkle a few more words about being obedient to the cult, and there you go:
"For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father." Mosiah 3:19
@@DoctorZisIN WOW!! You have a problem with somebody in the Book of Mormon mentioning the "natural man". If the Book of Mormon really is the word of God, wouldn't you expect there to be teachings about the "flesh", or the "natural man"? I would.
@@Ether-pb5gb Maybe but if the book of Mormon is the product of a family of charlatans I would expect it to contain bible verses, some exactly copied, some altered, which it does. I would expect it to contain events from the writers life transplanted into the book, such as Joseph Senior's dream, which became Lehi's dream. I would expect it to contain things about the bible shown to be fictional, like the story of the tower of babel, the patriarchs of the Jews, such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph with his multi-colored coat. I would expect it to contain errors from the KJV bible, which it does. I would expect it to contain anachronisms, animals, plants and objects which don't belong in the time and place, which it does, and so on.
And I would expect it to be boring and full of Shiz, which it is.
You need to look into the fonoprint tests of the book and am how they match up with other great books like the Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. It shows that no two books within the Book of Mormon could’ve possibly been written by the same people. And due to the names found within, we see many different cultures which are distinct, while Tolkien’s LOTR shows multiple races and tons of names but all of the names are connected somehow - thus they were created by the same author.
yeah, anything in this video could turn into a hole video on its own
I love this testimony of Joseph Smith as a prophet on God.
Do you think he was fully thinking of the church when he was having relations with his two 14 year old wives. I think not...
Video is very well done. However I do need to correct you on a couple of points. 1. The Book of Mormon location takes place in North America where the United States currently resides. 2. Joseph was not uneducated. As a boy he was most likely far more knowledgeable than most of our current society. His knowledge continued to build through God.
jason christensen I agree with you, the setting for the BofM was in the midwestern US. But Joseph was uneducated, he did not have much formal education. Whether or not youre making a case that he was tutored from on high, he had been schooled in the basics of reading & writing, and scraps of the math and science of his day. Such was the case for most of the poor back then, which included his family.
I just finished the Book of Mormon recently. And after much research, my conclusion is that Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, perhaps with help but that would be risky for Joseph. Long story short, I believe Joseph hid a stack of pages to read from in the bottom of his hat. Perhaps the hat had a compartment similar to a magician's hat that's large enough to conceal a rabbit.
Me too! But I don't think he needed to hide anything, i think he just wrote it beforehand and studied it before starting translating for the day
That is such an obscure, unlikely situation to have happened. Seems you already believed the BoM isn’t true
@@yevz6360 I wouldn’t be much of an investigator if I didn’t investigate and consider all options. For all that the characters of the Book of Mormon supposedly went through to protect the plates it seems odd that the plates didn’t even need to be in the room for translation. And the papyri that resulted in The Book of Abraham didn’t even need to be translated correctly. In my investigation I am leaning towards Joseph being a conman that was able to fool the pre-Rosetta Stone folks of the 1800’s.
Come on Jeff. And just how did he read those pages in the dark hat? How did he hide this from all of the witnesses? Where did he keep all of these pages? How was his monumental effort of composing all these pages of detailed complexity not noticed by anyone? How would he compose such a masterpiece with his limited education and experience? Have you read any of his actual writing to see just how poor his literary skills were at that time? Watch the video again and you will realize that your theory is far more wild and unlikely than the claim of Joseph Smith and all the eyewitnesses who were there to witness it.
@@rockartalan I've read the whole Book of Mormon and I have to say, I agree with Mark Twain. But to hide a small portion of pages at a time inside a hat is no difficult task. And if the hat was white, as is shown by the one Russell Nelson is holding in photos, then that would assist with letting light pass thru. It's my understanding they needed a good deal of light for the scribes to see. The same light would benefit the magician Joseph as well. Some believe that Joseph may have had access to Solomon Spaulding's "Manuscript Found" which could have been the foundational text. Then sprinkle in some King James Bible with 1611 translation errors and careful attention to tweak the italicized words added by the 1611 translators and you've got yourself a Book of Mormon. If Joseph could convince people there was buried treasure on their property and then get them to believe, after digging, that it was an angel that moved the treasure deeper into the ground so they couldn't get it, he would have no trouble keeping his pages secret. ie, "don't look in there lest you be cursed, turned to stone, made to be blind, etc". Personally I imagine if he's already keeping what people think are the plates covered in a bag or with a fabric, manuscript pages could be in there as well. I've been an investigator now for 2 or 3 years. I feel like I'm about to close my investigation and spend more time focusing on the Bible rather than the Book of Mormon. Whenever I've prayed about the BOM the message I receive is "Use caution with regards to this book". And when I read the Bible I get the exact opposite reaction to that of Mark Twain. The Bible is a masterpiece. The BOM to me seems like a see-saw ride between Nephites and Lamanites. Back and forth between times of contention and peace. Contention and peace. Contention and peace. Lather, rinse, repeat. Just my opinion. Mean no harm. I really have tried it. Not sure why, but my mind is still open. For now though, I lean towards Galatians 1:8.
Lost me at 1:55 when Kwaku said the BOM is essentially free from error....time has shown through over 3000 revisions/corrections that is not true...just more lies, deception and misrepresentation....
You dought the BOM, how it all truefull the phrophet told me it was so . Well at least it will be correct when its revised another 10 times. Then then you will eat your words, Ha ha. Especially with the witters we can now afford due to the generous contributions due to this video appeal. lol
@@RichieWellock I KNOW the BOM not to be true. :-) But most LDS people I know are pretty nice.
@@billhays6826 yeah I dont know any of them. I would not bother reading Bom got better things to do. funny video though.
This is probably a preacher at a babtist church that thinks god only let his gospel go to the European side of the world in ancient times
Furthermore, Harold Bloom was never a critic of Joseph Smith. He's a literary critic. He was a Joseph Smith fanboy.
If there is one true church then Satan owns all others. If Satan owns all others that means he will attack the true church persecute them. The church he attacks is the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. So members of the church don't get angry about these comments against our church and try to .
The Book of Mormon is true, I know it and God knows it!
@@richardholmes7199
Are you a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
@@richardholmes7199
Then let us testify against the Anti-mormons and nay sayers! The Book of Mormon is true Brother!
@@thurbs123 "complexity" is not a proof.
Where's the actual proof?
Arel R complexity isn’t a proof u are right. Although in this case the BoM’s complexity suggests it would have required multiple geniuses with the information that wasn’t available to them back then. It’s “complexity” is that Joseph Smith had a 3rd grade education...so after we know of the factual complexity of the book. How do u then say Joseph wrote it? U can’t. There’s a book out called a case for the Book of Mormon that goes over this
"it can be demonstrated on so many different levels ... (names xyz)" - well, Game of Thrones, Starwars, Harry Potter etc. also have most of those things, maybe not the hebrew elements. And JS did have four years between the first vision and the day he got to have the golden plates to think of these things. So he had time to prepare his spontaneity.
Your turn! Let's see you dictate a book that can convert millions to a false gospel in the same amount of time.
@@jacobaarongarner the difference between me and JS is that I don't want to act with malicious intent. Therefore I lack the motivation of lying to people. But the fantasy stories I mentioned before pretty much serve the same purpose in our modern age of technology. Game of Thrones, Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter etc., some people follow these religiously. They come together on specific dates to worship in their fandom (aka Comic Con), they dress up as their favorite characters, spend a big portion (maybe even more than 10 percent) on merchandise, even learn the fantasy languages and the entire lore and defend it agains anyone who calls it bad names or dumb. Since we have the internet, a stunt like JS pulled, would not really be possible today because things do get debunked rather quickly, so new media and fiction has turned into our new "gospel". We don't live in 1830 anymore, so stop acting like we do.
And three more words that prove that it can still happen, just in a different way: NEW AGE MOVEMENT. People these days pay top dollar to get a reading from someone who claims they can speak to the dead or angels or whatever, like all of those mediums on TV.
@@ladyknight4162There's quite a big difference between the gospel and Harry Potter. One of these might actually be true and important. In everything Joseph Smith ever wrote, every letter and journal entry. Nothing, I mean nothing, shows his selfish intent. It's so much easier to believe the coming forth of the Book of Mormon as Joseph claimed. Despite all the bad things he did and what we don't understand and what we think is bad but is not, Hyrum stayed with him. Emma stayed with him. Not one of the witnesses denounced what they said. The Book of Mormon is astoundingly complex and has the ancient feel and evidences. There's too much to pan it off as a conman. This religion is serious. We're talking about our eternal salvation. What other evidence do you need to see? You need evidence to have faith at fist but when you finally have a trial of faith, the Holy Ghost witnesses truth. And this is truth eternal that we have a right to know the truth. We have the right to receive personal revelation.
@@mdennisrva4301 I know the history. I know the stupid things Joseph did a lot of that not including the things that are just rumors. I also know that we don't know a lot and I've accepted the imperfect man as a prophet of God. Something
I've noticed is how hard Satin's followers has tried to push people away from the church. There's not a lot that has been attacked more fiercely than the early saints and Joseph Smith. It's utterly unbelievable all the bad things that have happened to them.
And you're totally wrong about the dictation. Did you watch this video? It enplanes the intricacy so well. I doubt you'd be able to dictate a single chiasmus on the spot. The Book of Mormon is impossibly genuine and holds its own as an ancient Hebrew text.
why should we believe nephi is there a manuscript to nephis time?
The Book of Mormon is about a people who lived in a place and time that archaeologists and historians knew virtually nothing about when the book was published. Since then dozens and dozens of discoveries about ancient America have supported what the Book of Mormon claims about these people and nothing has been discovered that disproves its authenticity.
@@rockartalan give me some examples? or sources.
I do not need any of that because the answer is there just by reading the book of mormon, and having the humility to learn to sincerely seek the truth of these scriptures and if it is true ask God he will answer in a while but when you least expect it you receive in the most beautiful way I have not forgotten it yet and I will never forget it. God wants Faith, the rest will come and strengthen what you have already demonstrated to God that you are hungry to know from him to know the truth and light will come and when you least expect it, that light will be with you constantly.
Part 1:
I'm watching to be open minded. If there is evidence then there is evidence. I'm a believer and I'm trying to give the same benefit of the doubt to them as I give to the book I trust. Although I've just started the video, I'm already set up to be skeptical. When you present a case as important as this one could be, it is imperative that you begin with good, solid, and rational openings but this fella doesn't do that. I know its minor but it set the tone for the rest of presentation. It makes you wonder how honest hes being.
What I am referencing in the video is his suggestion that "some of the most skeptical critics have felt compelled to changed their tune." He then goes to quote TWO different people. One a biographer of the other one. The second quote, meant to convey a change in attitude toward the BoM, is not given in context and could be a negative comment towards J.Smith as it could be a positive one. I doubt many wouldn't see the genius in J.Smith's inventions and ability to hold them all together but that could be the genius of a con artist at the top of his game. We don't know, because there is no context. But, the mere fact that to support his claim that "some of the most skeptical critics" have changed their mind, he could not even produce 1 for this video. Instead he took two separate opinions. Thats not a critic changing their mind even if the "genius" comment was meant to be positive.
I'm sorry but that make me suspicious of anything else he may present.
Part 2:
Ok, he doesn't fail to follow on his first generalities with more. He gives a long list of complex topics that I can only guess he is using to suggest the BoM is special, but he throws so many at you its hard to process them all, therefore it feels as if hes listing an awe inspiring catalogue of special and difficult topics to get right by a man not inspired by God. Now, I'm ok with someone suggesting that their book is unique due to various qualities but lets look at many of these items on the list. Most are mundane and easily found in other books of the time.
List of unimpressive topics List of interesting topics
Political Histories Over 1000 Hebrew literary elements
Editorial Prefaces and Conclusions Numerous fulfilled prophecies
Extended Genealogies Over 1000 intertextual relationships
Over 150 named locations(none of which are in the New World) Realistic Demographic Data
Typological narratives
Realistic naming conventions
Brilliant doctrinal discourses
Extended analogies
Pervasive early modern English
complex source texts
multiple migrations
epic literature
realistic battles
distinct cultures
Embedded flashbacks
Competing Religious ideologies.....
Part 3:
So, why would we take a title or prophecy of Jesus found twice in a single book written(dictated) by a single man, in any way remarkable?
Part 4:
The plan of salvation, the chiasmas etc are all interesting points to ponder. The problem is that chiasmas are found in other literature as well. Its found in the bible and its found in the Quran. The Quran has one that is quite large and covers many books if I remember right. So, its interesting, I concede, but what does it really tell us? I'd say not much at all. Definitely not enough to confirm a divine inspiration. I believe there is a hierarchy to "evidence" beginning with direct historical evidence. This would include something like Hezekiah's Tunnel and Bulae of Hezekiah himself. These evidences confirm directly a claim of existence. The second type would be indirect evidence. Joseph was said to have been thrown into a well in a certain town so that his brother's could sell him to the Egyptians. In that town today we find many ancient well sites and it sits on one of the main trading routes that led from Egypt through to the north. We have no direct evidence of Joseph and his well but every detail of the story fits perfectly with the narrative. Finally we have minor evidences. These evidences would be things like dogs as pets in the ancient world, or camels being ridden. These latter evidences wouldn't really mean much to us if there wasn't the direct and indirect evidences coming before. They serve to only enhance our confidence in the narratives transmission and helps us to date the story.
I think this is at best what you have with the BoM. Talks of swords or broad geographies or literary genius is rather unimpressive unless it comes with the direct and indirect evidences that prove the foundations of the story.
Anyway, I could go on. I think its clear why I'm unimpressed. Most of the parameters in this list that are meant to impress and cause us to conclude there is something special about the BoM are descriptions of literature that can be found elsewhere. Really? Your going to put "realistic battles" in your list of convincing evidences or "extended geneologies?" or later put "synonyms" as one of the many Hebrewisms that exist in the book? What would be impressive, imo, would be if you could put in that list, "Previously unknown historical battles," or "Direct evidence of people in a geneology." Now, that would get my attention. So, the conclusion so far remains... Hes still grasping at straws to make a case. The video is more about production and persuasion then actual evidence.
I also felt that the presentation was more like a sales-hype. One of the key techniques being that there is no time to think, it's just one fireworks show after another, designed to excite the senses.
Now, any Bible believer also believes that there are thousands, or maybe millions of fallen angels, each one who has an intellect vastly superior to puny man, and who can machinate and produce a book that would have intricacies that would boggle man's relatively tiny mind. So the iteration of complexities of detail is no evidence of inspiration from God...the source could be from a fallen angel (or angels).
How then could we really distinguish whether a supernatural work would be from God, or from Satan? There are a number of tests:
1. Does it present God's character in a proper light? Satan's work is to distort the character of God, so that he can lead men to fear God, rather than love God. Then Satan can insinuate himself as an agent of "mercy" as opposed to the "hard God", and his subtle theories are accepted as "love".
2. Does it exalt Christ as the Saviour and hope of man? Along with this, does it present the sin problem in a proper way, so that people can see their own goodness is not enough, and that they need the goodness of God put into them again? Does it present a way to receive this goodness, and how to have the sin and uncleanness removed?
3. Since sin cannot be seen except by the law ("by the law is the knowledge of sin" Rom. 3:20), does it exalt the law of God? First as a means of showing the sinner his sinfulness, and then as a means to lead to Christ? Does it present the law as a standard by which the Christian can determine if his works are of God, or of himself?
4. Does it exalt the Word of God? Satan's work was to lead away from God's word to another word (his own) in the place of that word. Any book that God would give by inspiration must exalt the written word (Old and New Testaments). It is by unbelief that Eden was lost, and it is by an unwavering faith in the word that it will be regained. Is faith in the Bible upheld as the only way to salvation?
5. Does it direct men to the work of Christ our High Priest, in the temple in heaven? The book of Revelation clearly shows that this is where our focus should be. Or does it rather point to human priests, human temples, down here on this old earth, to distract us from the work of Christ in heaven?
These would be far more important tests of the book of Mormon.
Those things you have mentioned are insightful points. I think its important to remember that this individual is an individual not the church speaking. That being said you have some good thoughts. I think because of the quick nature of the video you may have missed why some points are significant, like the chiasmus. That literary style being used elsewhere is actually a big solidifier for the claim that the first authors of the text came from the middle east and not from someone's imagination. And to use it with such skill requires the writer to have greater exposure to this style of writing, which Joseph Smith did not have alot of. Also, historical battles and architecture, has had some interesting developments as of late, you should check out national geographic, secrets of the ancient Maya and cross compare it to the battlements in alma 36-60.
@@jaromsthoughts8427 I appreciate your thought. I've actually read up on most of what you reference though it was some time ago. Chiastic literary structures were are found in both the Iliad as well as Beowulf among others. J.Smith would have had access to all of these including the ones found in the Bible. I don't know if he would have had access to a Quran but I doubt it. You must judge for yourself but I don't find it that convincing. It still only falls into that last category of minor evidences that don't mean much without direct and indirect evidences.
What about the wars impress you the most? I looked through them real quick. The most interesting parts are the fortified cities and the swords. I've looked into these in the past. The best I have found is that the ancient weapons that resembled swords were not used as swords are used. They were clubs with embedded chunks of obsidian. They were bludgeoning instruments and not slashing instruments. As for fortified cities, nearly every ancient continent contains fortified cities. They are scattered throughout Mexico and S.America, the Middle East, Africa, Europe and in the Orient. So unless their can be a direct link between one of these fortified cities and those found in the BoM, I'm not that impressed. I'm looking for something, anything, that says that any one of the people groups mentioned in the BoM existed in the Americas.
@@blusheep2 Joseph's smith's ability to access those types of works and whether it was reasonably plausible are fairly differs. But that's not really here not there. These pieces of trivia are tnot the foundational to my belief or to the teachings of the church.
The fortified cites are significant because at the time of Joseph Smith cement structures in the central and South America's were not widely known, and civilizations of this scale in the central America's were unheard of until recent discoveries. That's why it's significant because the record claimed something, and it was found later, not that the nature of having fortified structures was particularly unique
@@gm6856 I really appreciate your concern that my preconceived conclusions may bias me against the BoM regardless of what evidence is placed before me. That is, of course, always a possibility. I can only say that I do my best to follow the obvious. My number 1 desire is to know the truth regardless of how difficult it might be, initially, to accept. Therefore, I have truly tried to give the BoM a fair shake and I'm always open to new information.
There was a boat load of issues I raised about the BoM in my previous comments. Did you, by chance, read them all?
Writing a book in 90 days is indeed impressive but not unheard of. Many authors over the years have written their novels in less time. With all do respect, to me,(and maybe this is my bias thinking) 90 days seems to long.
Let us both try to put our biases aside and examine the 90 days and try to learn from them.
In the BoM there are 6604 verses. That would translate to 75 verses a day. Less than an hour of work a day. Do you really still think that is impressive. To me this actually sounds lazy if, in fact, J.Smith was translating ancient tablets he discovered, through supernatural means off a rock in a hat. How could someone only work an hour a day on that?
I believe that your point though, is that regardless of this, writing a book from scratch in 90 days is impressive and therefore it is unlikely that J.Smith invented it. And this of course would be powerful if it wasn't for the evidence that he copied it(the outline at least) from other pre-existing sources and the fact that others have done so as well.
Here is some more evidence that points to the BoM as untrue.
The View of the Hebrews.
-Already addressed in above posts
The First Book of Napoleon. Written 1809 with similar themes and phrases
-Read this and tell me if it sounds familiar(style, not story)
"1. And behold it came to pass, in these latter days, that an evil spirit arose on the face of the earth, and greatly troubled the sons of men.
2. And this spirit seized upon, and spread amongst the people who dwell in the land of Gaul.
3. Now, in this people the fear of the Lord had not been for many generations, and they had become a corrupt and perverse people; and their chief priests, and the nobles of
the land, and the learned men thereof, had become wicked in the imagines of their hearts, and in the practices of their lives.
4. And the evil spirit went abroad amongst the people, and they raged like unto the heathen, and they rose up against their lawful king, and slew him, and his queen also, and
the prince their son; yea, verily, with a cruel and bloody death.
5. And they moreover smote, with mighty wrath, the king’s guards, and banished the priests, and nobles of the land, and seized upon, and took unto themselves, their
inheritances, their gold and silver, corn and oil, and whatsoever belonged unto them.
6. Now it came to pass, that the nation of the Gauls continued to be sorely troubled and vexed, and the evil spirit whispered unto the people, even unto the meanest and
vilest thereof...
-Now lets compare some of the key phrases of this book and the book of Mormon.
First book of Napoleon
Condemn not the (writing)...an account...the First Book of Napoleon... upon the face of the earth...it came to pass...the land...their inheritances their gold and silver
and...the commandments of the Lord...the foolish imaginations of their hearts...small in stature...Jerusalem...because of the perverse wickedness of the people.
The BoM
Condemn not the (writing)...an account...the First Book of Nephi... upon the face of the earth...it came to pass...the land...his inheritance and his gold and his silver
and...the commandments of the Lord...the foolish imaginations of his heart...large in stature...Jerusalem...because of the wickedness of the people.
Guess what. The phrases from the 1 BoN come from the beginning of that book and the phrases from the BoM come from the beginning of that book.
Lets look at another area where we see copying, not revelation. The KJV Bible that Joseph Smith owned. The 1769 version. The KJV translators would occasionally put there own words into the text to make it more readable. We know these words because they were italicized. Word for italicized word is copied into the BoM. 2 Nephi 19:1 copies verbatim the KJV italicized additions.
One last thing to consider.... The geographical names found in the BoM are just copied from the surrounding places in that part of the US whose names were created by the settlers. Lets compare.
Modern BoM Geography...........................................Modern BoM
Alma Valley of Alma Lehigh Lehi
Antrim Antum Mantua Manta
Boaz Boaz Oneida Onidah
Hellam Helam Rama Rahmah
Jacobsburg Jacobugath Shiloh Shilom
Kishkiminetas Kishkumen
These are not all of them.
So it is possible that I am just closed minded and won't be convinced by even a monkey writing the book. Is it possible that you are not open enough as well and that you hold to your comfort zone and your long held faith in the BoM inspite of all this very convincing evidence against it?
God Bless. I truly love the Mormons. I have spent quite a bit of time with them. They don't know the real Jesus. Jesus is not a brother of Lucifer. We cannot become Gods. I only want you to know the true Jesus. Hopefully you care about truth more then you care about your belief systems.
-Lets see the facts 1st why is the 1832 book of Mormon and todays book not the same so many changes from the original
- The book of Mormon mentions 150 names of cities names of regions. where as of today we have not a slightest clue where they happened and occurred.
-it speaks of that Lamanites and Nephites spoke some kind of revised Egyptian; that today we see no proof.
(The oldest American Indians the Olmecas, Toltecas Chichimecas, Maya, Incas and the Aztecs have no Egyptian nor Hebrew origin
-Multiple migration so DNA shows they did not come from those origins
-What distinct cultures the American Indians had no Hebrew costumes ( Like the pass over) or some kind of Moses reference.
-Book of Mormon shows 3 calendar systems (But the only one that Hebrew followed was the lunar calendar)
The truth to Mormon is that they base on a "feelings" not on facts.
As you read the Bible as history shows more truth and facts.
I challenge you to see the truth prove the world that the Book of Mormon is true.
Being Christian is 1st. FACTS 2nd FAITH 3rd. Belief and feeling (in this order)
Being Mormon is 1st. Belief and feelings 2nd Faith 3rd Facts
Please seek the truth so the truth can set you free As Yeshua (JESUS) Love you and wants you to now the truth.......
“Realistic battles” Ether 15:2 “He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly two millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.”
He didn't say ALL battles were realistic. Some weren't mentioned at all. "and we fought many years ..." Some give summary like the one you mentioned. Some discuss strategy, angle of attack, requests for surrender, and post battle efforts to care for the wounded and dead.
The Bible plainly states that the gospel, with its inclusion of Gentiles, was not fully revealed until after Christ's death.
Eph. 3:3-7 Paul writes "by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) which in other ages was not made knownunto the sons of men as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: whereof I was made a minister ...... (See also Col. 1:26; 1 Peter 1: 1-12; Romans 16:25-26)
However, the Book of Mormon maintains that this knowledge was had in 545 B.C.
2 Nephi 25:19 "For according to the words of the prophets, the Messiah cometh... his name shall be Jesus Christ, the Son of God. ... (v.23) For we labor... to persuade... our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
2 Nephi 26:12 "And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus in the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;"
2 Nephi 30:2 "For behold, I say unto you that as many of the Gentiles as will repent are the covenant people of the Lord; and as many of the Jews as will not repent shall be cast off,"
2 Nephi 31:17 "For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and the Holy Ghost."
During Jesus' ministry He spoke of His church as something in the future.
Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
After Christ's resurrection and the day of Pentecost we read "And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." (Acts 2:47)
However, the Book of Mormon claims the Christian church was established as early as 147 B.C.
Mosiah 18:17 "And they were called the church of God, or the church of Christ, from that time forward."
The Bible says believers were first called Christians after Paul's ministry in Antioch.
Acts 11:26 "And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."
However, the Book of Mormon claims people were known by this title as early as 73 B.C.
Alma 46:15 "...yea, all those who were true believes in Christ took upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or Christians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come."
The Holy Ghost was bestowed on the Christians at the time of Pentecost.
Luke 24:49 "And, behold, I send the promise of my Father unto you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high."
Acts 2:1-4 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. ... And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost,..."
Yet the Book of Mormon claims that people received the gift of the Holy Ghost as early as 545 B.C.
2 Nephi 31:12-13 "...the voice of the Son came unto me, saying: He that is baptized in my name, to him will the Father give the Holy Ghost, like unto me... Wherefore, my beloved brethren,... by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost;..."
Although Isaiah had many prophecies of Christ, and the Jews, as a chosen people, could have done the work the apostles did, had they understood the promises of God, there is no justification for 2 Nephi 31, if it is indeed supposedly written in the time period you state.
The day of Pentecost could not come, except Christ was sacrificed first. It was the revelation of the love of God, vs. the malice of Satan, revealed at the cross, that prepared and united the disciples to make them agents of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Since Christ did not die in 545 BC, Pentecost could not happen then.
Consider also the prophecy of Psalm 68:18 "You have ascended on high, you have led captivity captive: you have received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them." First was to come Christ's ascension, taking some resurrected souls with him (the captivity of the grave), and then would come the "gifts for men" in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Clearly, then, no death and resurrection of Christ = no outpouring of the Holy Spirit in Pentecostal power.
Well done!
I love how God thought so much of the 1769 KJV bible that he used many of its verses in the Book of Mormon (including its errors and added words). Now that's efficiency!
Approximately 7% of the text can be associated to the KJV 1769 Blaney Revision, most of which are atributions as direct Isaiah quotes. The "KJV errors", some are open to interpretation as to whether or not they are "errors" but the use of the KJV text can also be attributed to the production of the handwritten Printer's Manuscript or to the type setter using their own KJV to help read or punctuate the Manuscript. Either way, What about the remaining 90% plus?
Ani-mormons are real quiet on this one
Fawn Brodie calling him a mythmaker was not a compliment? Who made this?
Wow... the only complexity of the Book of Mormon is understanding how anyone with the least degree of rational thought could even consider it complex. Since every point that's made has zero historical support... the same complexity could be said of Mother Goose.
Back in 1827, nobody in the United States thought that the indigenous peoples of the Americas would be capable of building city-states with hundreds of thousands of inhabitants, cement structures and cement houses, multiple temples scattered throughout the land, city walls, metallurgy and metal work with gold and precious metals, numerous kings and kingdoms filled with politics, religious disputes, trade and merchants, and some of the most violent wars of Ancient History... just as presented in the Book of Mormon. Until all of these things began to be proven one by one by archeologists during the 20th century.
This does not describe what Joseph Smith knew about native cultures in New York..does it? How could Joseph describe Mesoamerican societies with such precision, without knowing anything about them? But of course, you could ignore all of this and keep chanting your chantra: 'no evidence, no evidence..'
Large civilizations were well known in the Americas.... For instance and only one of dozens of examples...in 1518 Hernán Cortés began his conquest of the Aztec empire in Mexico..... Last time I checked, that is 309 years Before Joseph Smith began fabricating the Book of Mormon. Books were well known and read in the early 1800's. They even had schools and "GASP" Universities! The point being that information was known and available. Many theories were also out there which have proved to be completely incorrect. Joseph Smith used many of those incorrect theories in the Book of Mormon which is a clear demonstration of the fact that the book is a imaginary work of fiction. It would be fun going point by point debunking your beliefs and misunderstandings... but that would serve no purpose. Beliefs can't be defeated by facts when validation is all your looking for. Clearly, this pathetic video has served it's purpose well in validating your beliefs. Continue to drink your Kool Aid if you wish, but don't pretend to know anything about this subject because you clearly don't.
I live in Mexico. I have studied Mesoamerican civilizations ever since I was 6 years old, so I probably do know much more about them than you do. Thank you for your preoccupation.
But I agree with your point that these civilizations could have been discussed in some scholarly works during the early 19th century. However, these publications tended to be very expensive, and not at all available or well-known to the general public; especially for someone like Joseph Smith who was *GASP* uneducated.
The last volume of Lord Kingsborough's "Antiquities of Mexico", and probably the first book in the English language to contain illustrations of Mayan cities, apparently sold only one copy in the United States
Even when Parley P. Pratt presented the Book of Mormon to an Illinois minister in 1831, the minister replied that "there were no antiquities in America, no ruined cities, buildings, monuments, inscriptions, mounds, or fortifications, to show the existence of such a people as the Book of Mormon described"
If we read further accounts written by associates of Joseph Smith around that time, we can confirm that people close to Joseph, but even more educated than him, knew little or nothing about these large civilizations. For instance, David Whitmer stated:
"When we [the Witnesses] were first told to publish our statement, we felt sure that the people would not believe it, for the Book told of a people who were refined and dwelt in large cities".
So please stop pretending that Joseph Smith was some kind of mastermind or naturally gifted writer who spent all his life studying Mesoamerican civilizations extensively, because that simply isn't the case. All the evidence from both Mormon and non-Mormon sources indicates that Joseph Smith "wasn't well-read" and "wasn't into books".
As Emma Hale said in her last testimony: "He had neither manuscript nor book to read from, if he had had anything of the kind he could not have concealed it from me. Joseph Smith could neither write nor dictate a coherent and well-worded letter, let alone dictate a book like the Book of Mormon."
So your argument is that the scarcity and cost of books prevented Joseph Smith from knowing anything about Mesoamerican civilizations? Really? You do know that Joseph Smith SR... Joseph Smiths father was a teacher right? Joseph Smith got virtually everything wrong historically, and that's my point. Your arguments are weak and not well researched... Looks like another Kool Aid drinker to me. Evidence of the Book of mormon isn't some 1831 preacher or any followers of Joseph Smith... evidence is Nephite Coins, Horses, Steel, Identifiable cities, Wheat, Sheep, Honey Bees, Elephants, Artwork etc..... You have none. Oh, DNA is helpful too.... good luck... keep sippin' the Kool Aid.
I'm going to respond to your claims real quick.
1. The word coin , or any of its variants, appears zero times in the Book of Mormon.
2. Archeologists no longuer argue that pre-Columbian horses did not exist. Actually, the Radiocarbon Laboratory of the University of Arizona already dated a sample of horse fossils from Mexico at approximately 2500 years ago, right at the time of the Book of Mormon.
3. Modern steel was not invented until 1846. 'Steel' was a generic word in English from 1830, that could refer to copper, bronze or even brass.
4. This is so stupid that I'm not even going to argue about it
5. You forgot to mention barley. Ah no, three species of barley have been found in the New World. You know, when people like you were so sure that Ancient mesoamericans knew nothing about barley. Still waiting for wheat though. They also cultivated two species of amaranth, a grain native to the Americas, which is what the translation might be referring to.
6. There are sheep native to the Americas, the most common species is Ovis canadensi.
7. The Book of Mormon never claims that honey bees were carried across the ocean, it only claims that the Jaredites brought them during their land travels in the wilderness.
8. Five species of Proboscideans have been found in the Americas. 9. Same as point 4.
6 out of 9 of your claims (67%) are plainly wrong, two are debatable and one is a fallacy. Not surprised.
Now that you have determined that the Book of Mormon is an authentic record, when will we truly believe its doctrine, prophesies and precepts and apply the many references of the last days to the intended and correct people i.e who are the "Gentiles" referred to throughout the book?
leo .designdude excellent point, also, which version of the book of Mormon are people to investigate? Since the nature Christ was changed in today's version from the original version of the book of mormon, Which states that Jesus is God.
Have you read the Book of Mormon?
The Gentiles are the Heathen nations, who are not of the house of Israel.
David Holdstock That was the title page, it was not written through revelation. The spiritual witness is of the Book of Mormon
You might not believe them but I do
Joseph Smith would not have allowed that presenter to hold the priesthood as he said they were cursed with a black skin.
Robbie Robertson
Uh, Joseph ordained black people to the priesthood. Show me where Joseph Smith himself said that?
What black person did Joseph Smith ordain to the priesthood?
Joseph Smith ordained black people to the priesthood. Joseph ordained Elder Elijah Abel and Elder Walker Lewis.
The priesthood ban started with Brigham Young.
0:36 He probably finally kicked that football.
Brilliant. Thank you!
This video is unbelievably awesome!!!!!! You guys ROCK!!!
Katie seek the truth I'm sorry read the original 1832 book of Mormon and todays book and you will see the truth and it will set you free
I actually have read it. I've even read the version without punctuation, which predates that.
Leaping Leads obviously has not read both versions or he would know there is absolutely no argument in what he presents. The 1830 edition is not a lesser edition than the current version. It's just a bit harder to use in Sunday school without the current verse and chapter divisions and numbering.
Katie Payne's opinion after she loses interest in the Mormon boyfriend and gets the hots for an Atheist: "This Atheist video is unbelievably awesome!!!!!! Atheist guys ROCK!!!"
As you study the book of Mormon and the truths found there, it becomes clear that The great lakes area holds so many evidences of the books truth and validation. Now DNA found in the ancestors of the heartland Indians, Hebrew and reformed Egyptian found in native artifacts and affirmed by nonLDS scholarship. Truly the Lord has caused evedence to come forth out of the ground, and it turns out that the native peoples our ancestors treated so badly have the addional knowledge we seek just as Joseph sent the first misionaries to the North American Indians they hold the some of the keys to this sacred books past.
Pump the brakes there bud.
Did you really just quote " His biographer Fawn Brodie"?
As in author of No Man Knows my History as a positive thing? If I am not mistaken, she was ex'ed for writing this, and was considered Anti-Mormon at the time. She said , "He was a mythmaker of Genius talent." Therefore, he was a genius???
The reason she was quoted is because people wouldn't believe LDS sources making that claim. If she was against Joseph Smith, and called him a secret supergenius, then why would she do that? Because it's the only way that (honest) critics have of refuting the claims proposed in the video. The problem is that that does a very poor job of doing that, since he would have to have an intellect which was higher than even Tolkien by order of magnitudes, while only having a 3rd grade education. How many 3rd graders do you know that could dictate this book, without outside references or even referring back to the previously dictated text?
@@carterstelter8511 When she wrote that book, she Was an LDS source. Her whole excommunication was because she did all the research and published that book. The church has spent a lot of effort in framing her as an Anti-Mormon, driven by anger and hate, who Made up Lies about Joseph Smith.
But now because her work has been proven to be correct in it's details it is Ok to cited?
Just seems a little 2 faced to me.
And the myth that Joseph "was a 3rd grader" is not exactly accurate either.
" Don't judge a person of the past by today's standards." Ever heard that one?
Ever seen what a 3rd grade education looked like back then? The church says "3rd Grade education " because it conjures up in most American minds the image of an 8 year old. Yeah- I don't know too many 8 year olds who are that smart. Know plenty of "Uneducated " 20 year olds who are much smarter than I will ever be. ( Which admittedly doesn't necessarily require all that much...low bar to clear I suppose.)
So many omissions, grandiose assumptions and logical fallacies in this video. However, it would impress people who have no idea about the back story.
*yawn*
I am aware of the backstory. And the BOM is still from God. 🤷♂️
The book has 4000 edits.
He is not talking about spelling edit...
Most "edits" are grammatical or were meant to make the verse easier to understand.
So what's your point?
I would agree that it is, like it or not, an example of some of the great American literature. Smith, Cowdery, Rigdon, Whitmer, Hail, all masterfully wove together a huge story that, while it may not hold a candle to the Bible, certainly shows the influence that scripture had over those men involved to the extent of dogged and unashamed imitation.
Stylometry has demonstrated that those people did not write the Book of Mormon. See this video by the same organization.
ua-cam.com/video/hBcAKdbCbEc/v-deo.html
Sidney Rigdon was not involved in the production of the Book of Mormon. It was published almost 2 years before he first saw it. There is no legitimate evidence to the contrary.
Awesome a gay black man now representing Mormons Truly the Book of Mormon has come a long way, the over 4000 changes from joseph smith's original translation were well needed. I think we should let witches and magicians in to the church, with comparison to Lord of the Rings , it would seem appropriate
This argument reminds me of those that claim they can clearly realize and appreciate the subtle genius inherent in a Jackson Pollack painting; if you only see paint splatters, it's because you allegedly lack the necessary intellectual depth to see otherwise. The BoM is firmly a product of the early 19th century, "complexities" be damned.
@Zane Le’ Geire Are you arguing that coherent and accurate Hebrew poetic forms just showed up in a book by an uneducated farmers son from the 1820s by pure chance?
So I and most active, LDS church members, see and appreciate what you're saying, but non-members still think of Joseph Smith, as Jim Jones and the LDS Church and Book of Mormon, as Kool-Aid. When they're not actually ridiculing and deriding us, they're busy laughing. We are nothing but a South Park joke to them. Most of my grown children think that "Dad is a "mormon-whacko" despite the fact they were all raised as active Latter-Day Saints. I can only maintain family peace now, by keeping my religion, strictly to myself.
So the Book of Mormon remains controversial and divisive, no matter how truly remarkable it is. It greaves me to see it trampled on and treated as trash, or worse yet,..simply ignored.
I pray it may not always be this way.
The BoM foretold these situations. Nephis vision of the great and spacious building is so accurate for so many members, it furthers my testimony.
Thank HEAVENLY FATHER & HEAVENLY MOTHER Brother KAKU, your helps people know that, the BOOK Of MORMON is true.
What do Mormons say about other New Religious Movements who have companion books to the Bible? Such books include Mary Baker Eddy's Science and Health and Sun Myung Moon's Divine Principle. If you call them false, they can point their finger right back at you and say the Book of Mormon is false.
Unlike Sun Myung Moon's Divine Principle, and Mary Baker Eddy's Science and Health, the Book of Mormon is a record of a fallen people of the House of Israel who knew the Lord Jesus Christ as well as His Father. It is not a commentary. It was not researched and plotted out. The Book of Mormon uniquely stands as another testament of Jesus Christ. Of these, only the Book of Mormon is prophesied of in the Bible. Only the Book of Mormon gathers scattered Israel.
I got a bridge I want to sell you. Its in Antarctica.....
after you wake up
Thank you!
I don't believe in the Book of Mormon (or the Bible either for that mattwr) but there is something about the Book of Mormon that has me in ongoing fascination with it, even though I don't find the KJV or the overly-Christian (aka defying Jesus) elements to be appealing.
Hey, it’s Kwaku! ☀️