Evidences of the Book of Abraham: Facsimiles
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- The Book of Abraham in unique in the scriptural canon of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because it is the only book in that canon that has pictures. The three facsimiles of the Book of Abraham have attracted attention (and controversy) ever since they were first published along with the text in 1842. Many have asked how well Joseph Smith’s interpretations of the facsimiles align with those offered by Egyptologists.
The answer to this question is actually more complicated than it might initially seem. Besides considering some of the methodological issues that need to be kept in mind when answering this question, this video highlights some of the noteworthy instances where Joseph Smith’s interpretations of the facsimiles converge with modern scholarship, or where they otherwise accurately convey ancient concepts.
Documentation for the claims made in this video can be found in the accompanying blog post (link below). Additional evidence for the historicity of the Book of Abraham and other study resources (including an extensive bibliography) can be read at Pearl of Great Price Central (link below).
bookofmormonce...
www.pearlofgre...
So why did he replace Anubis head with a human head? Is it because Anubis head was torn off and he had nothing else to go by so gave an educated guess that it was human? There are at least eight surviving colour copies of the artwork used for facsimile 1 which are more complete than the one Joseph Smith bought from the trader.
He gave it a good guess and he guessed wrong. This was the ultimate test and Joseph passed at the time because no one had ever seen the image before and had literally no way to dispute this. As time has passed now though, we have rediscovered the original (thankfully) and can see as bright as day that the Anubis head was not on the document. The skin of the character is ink black even in Smith's version. It is so clear that the original artwork depicted Anubis.
Please google Facsimile 1 and scroll down until you see the eight images of an almost identical scene (the mormonhandbook image). This is literally some of the best evidence of a crime I have ever seen in my life. If you have the truth then it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth then it ought to be harmed.
YOU ARE A LIAR...THE ORIGINAL SHOWED A BALD PRIEST...
@Alpha Centauri The original does not exist. Somebody lied to you. Best study up. Bald priests were often drawn in the book of Ra. Joseph Smith got that right. How did he do that?
@@henochparks the original does exist, it is just one single Google search away my friend
@@IITaDHGdALToNII no it does not? Tell us where and produce a copy and you will be rich. But of course you choose to lie. Why?
@@henochparks easy google "where is the extant joseph smith papyri"
"Not all fragments were destroyed however, and some fragments were eventually acquired in 1947 by the Metropolitan Museum of Art (the Met)."
They show the original he clearly used to copy, the only things missing are the Anubis head and the bird which Joseph smith misinterpreted as a hand; it's clear, the skin of anubis is black even in the original and the males in facsimile one are both white faced but still the skin of the Anubis character is black because... wait for it.... the original was in fact Anubis.
I'm sorry to be the barer of bad news but you will be thankful that you have not continued on the legacy of a charlatan
At 4:08 it says "this scene depicts Abraham fastened upon the altar before some idolatrous gods. An Idolatrous priest is about to sacrifice Abraham who is protected the angel of the Lord."
How does your subsequent discussion of Gee suggesting scenes of ritual violence have anything to do with supporting that statement? Your video doesn't provide any evidence that shows egyptologists have found out that the scene really does say it's Abraham, that Abraham is about to be sacrificed on an altar before idolatrous gods (or any god other than the god Jehovah), nor that there is an idolatrous priest about to sacrifice Abraham, nor that there is a protecting angel of the god Jehovah. Saying ritual violence is depicted doesn't get anyone closer to that at all.
Can you describe how that suggests that the scene described by Joseph Smith is accurate?
the author and compiler of the Book of Abraham lived about 250 BC. He used a "book of the dead" as a template to tell elements of the life of Abraham. The Jewish Testament of Abraham which is scriptures to Jews in Ethiopia does the same thing, during the same time, in the same place. No one in America had ever heard of the Testament of Abraham until the 20th century. No one knew of the Book of the Dead template connection until the late 20th century. How did Joseph Smith get that right?
@Alpha Centauri it wasn’t entirely wrong. What’s your source saying it was “entirely wrong”? I’d like to take a look.
@Alpha Centauri so what’s your source? I’ll check it out. By the way, were you excommunicated or did you just leave the church? Are you still a believer in Christ or an atheist now? I’m just curious that’s all, no judgement.
@Alpha Centauri Hummm what was translated?
@Alpha Centauri Do you know what determinative hieroglyphs are? No? Tell us how Joseph Smith did before they were known to scholars. Do you know what an ascension text is? No? Tell us how Joseph Smith knew before scholars did? Did you know Jews used common Egyptian texts to use as a template to write events in the life of Abraham and other prophets? No? Tell us how Joseph Smith did before the scholars did. Shall I add more and more? No you can't even answer the few I gave you. Best study up before you post.
I am thankful that the Lord has not made things easy and fool proof. Otherwise we might have a church full of shallow, insincere people who are there only because of museum evidence. God will require faith (spiritual evidence), and that reality exists with Book of Abraham authenticity. He knows exactly what He's doing. Also thankful for scholar faithful's like Kerry Muhlestein, Alexander L. Baugh, John Gee, and Andrew H. Hedges.
@@Flintlock1776 Oh anonymous Evangelical friend, your defecation of contempt melts my heart. Your hate sets me straight. I am therefore ready to receive your lord. Will you escort me to the stage at your mega church and help me offer myself? Your insulting diatribe has readied me. I can see you have the love of god in you.
Oh brother
@@Flintlock1776 Flintlock friend, you exemplify the old Christian campfire song, “🎼 And they’ll know we are Christian by our love, by our love, yes they’ll know we are Christian by our love.” 🎶 Your defecation of contempt melts my heart. Your hate sets me straight. I am ready to be saved. Your insulting diatribe rescues me. Your acrid spree sets me free.
HC Kimball said that after Kirkland safety society bank failed and half the apostles left the church, he never saw the church in a better place b/c the complainers were gone!
@@sarahbelle256 I didn’t know that, fascinating. Thanks so much sister Sarah! 🫡💛
Your assessment is very problematic. I don’t believe God expects us to believe in the face of obvious contradictions.
The book of Abraham is a fraudulent document. There is absolutely no evidence to show its validity. It is only as valid as the ancient Egyptian myths the papyri actually represent.
Sorry, I think facts really do matter.
None of this solves the msin criticism: Smith's translation has nothing to do with the actual translation Egyptologists have provided.
He showed several examples of how close joseph's explanations were to what egyptologists say. The earth in its four quarters= the four cardinal directions. Just a lucky guess? The god of pharaoh. god sitting upon his throne. Even many of the examples that say joseph was "wrong" are very close to what egyptologists claim. Joseph called it a "sacrificial altar" while egyptologists call it a common funerary bier. Google "libation table" and you'll find it is an "altar for sacrifice" that looks exactly like the lion couch with the lion heads. The "idolatrous gods". The "pillars of heaven". Most of josephs explanations are just a slight tweak from what egyptologists claim. Even the purpose of facsimile 2.....Joseph claimed it was "A cosmological map depicting the hierarchy of heavenly bodies as they relate to the temple" while egyptologists claim it is " a guide through the after life to becoming a God"-which is an explanation i found on anti-mormon website. I studied the book of abraham facsimiles expecting it would prove my doubts about the church and found it only serves as evidence that Joseph Smith was a prophet.
says you? when we post evidence that Joseph Smith translated the text correctly youtube deletes our evidence,,,,,
Maybe he had a revelation about abraham, then assumed it was related to the papyrus, and fit his opinion of the abrahamic revelation to the facsimiles.
Could you list all the things that he translated incorrectly?
Because Ritner has and it is a long list.
Everything.
Here are a few examples from Egyptologist Robert Ritner's paper "The Breathing Permit Of Hor":
"Smith misunderstood 'Pharaoh' as a personal name (cf. Abraham 1:25), and the
name above fig. 2 is unquestionably that of the female Isis. Osiris (fig. 1)
is certainly not 'Abraham,' nor is it possible that the altar of Osiris (fig.3) 'signifies Abraham.' Maat (fig. 4) is not a male 'prince,' Hor (fig. 5) is
not a 'waiter,' nor is Anubis (fig. 6) a 'slave' (because of his dark skin).
Such interpretations are uninspired fantasies and are defended only with the
forfeiture of scholarly judgement and credibility."
@@Toppo2099incorrect watch this video
Thanks for your work here, I wonder what knowledge and inspirations Moses received from his Egyptian learning only available to Egyptian elite that could have assisted in his inspired prophetic writing of the first books of the Bible. Parts of Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham has helped wittiness to me also of Gods love and saving plan for all his children.
You leave out mentioning that Gee’s more senior Egyptologists completely reject his writings on this topic. This is not a complete presentation of the current academic understanding
usually they shadowban comments like this, u got lucky
@@uwvadertje Shadowban? What is that even supposed to mean?
@@porters.5811 then research it
Yeah, when he said "Some scholars have raised considerable objections to this explanation" I just knew that the incoming quote would be from Gee. Gee is essentially the *only* Egyptologist who lends any credence to the book of Abraham. I mean, what is more likely, that out of all Egyptologists in the world, he's the only one who sees these things, *or* that his religious views are clouding his judgement?
Baloney. Dr. Gee towers over most of his colleagues. The political/religious bias and pre-conceptions are what keeps them from acknowledging his talents and veracity. They are so steeped in secularism that they just cannot believe that a modern day Prophet of God brought forth a record of the Book of Abraham, and that it testifies of Christ and his restored gospel. That's what the issue really is...
0:45 It's really not complicated though
A. Joseph said he could translate a text by divine means
B. If the translation is accurate, 1. he probably did translate it by divine means, if not he was 2. either lying or confused
C. We have a clear example of what he claimed to translate in which he says "this symbol means this, this symbol means that etc."
D. The overwhelming majority of these translations are wrong.
E. Therefore option 2. "he was either lying or confused" is the best explanation.
If there are any flaws in this logic I would be glad to hear them
#1 you ignored my questions. Why? #2 you claim he made translations? We note you did not post said examples. #3 Why do you ignore telling us what the alleged translations by the so call experts mean? #4 You did not mention what so called experts claim the purpose of the texts are for other than to generalize? #5 So what does "made to represent" mean which is quoted often in the LDS texts? #6 What does determintive translation mean? A method ancient Egyptians used to tell the meaning of a word and it's content. #7 Why do so called experts ignore this method? #8 Why are the translations of the so call experts different from each other!!? #9 Why do their translations not tell us specifically what the purpose of the text is? Example what was the reason the ancient Egyptians placed the hypocephalus next to the body? #10. Answer they don't know. Why not? #11 Why can't so called experts tell us if they can translate ancient Egyptian perfectly? 12 The so called experts have no idea what most of the Pyramid text spells or the spells in " the coming forth of Ra" mean. Why not? They are the basis for the religion of ancient Egypt yet they cannot even translate them to make sense? The figure on the altar in the LDS facsimile #1 is in the praying position. However the so called experts say he is dead and being embalmed to claim it is a funerary text. Humm how do dead people pray? Why are their no other examples of this in funeral texts? That indicates the LDS text is unique and not about a dead guy but a living one as Joseph Smith said. Thus the so called experts got it wrong. Why do so called experts ignore the Hebrew in Joseph Smith's translation of the text? What do the Hebrew words have to do with "The Coming Forth of Ra"? Fact the so called experts ignore the LDS text and are guessing about what the ancient Egyptian text means because they don't know. Why do their so called translations of said alleged experts not match each other or make sense? Answer: They are guessing. . Again what is an ascension text? What is " the Coming forth of Ra" mean? Do you know? Do the so called experts know? Answer: No. Fact: the so called experts can translate words but are guessing to what the words symbolically mean. Joseph Smith's translations indicate an ancient Jewish scholar is using an ancient Egyptian text as a template to tell a story in the life of Abraham. This method is found elsewhere. It was unknown until the 20th century. It was used by the same folks who put the Old Testament Abraham together at the same place, at the same time, using the very same text!! Now we have numerous evidence from archeology and other sources that match the LDS Book of Abraham unknown in Joseph's time. How is that possible unless the LDS Book of Abraham is correct? Your so called translation is not a single one but several depending on who you ask and none of them match and none of them are sure what the meaning is. Best study up.
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists, how do you respond?
Was facsimile 2 hand drawn or was it fully casted or a cloth put on and a pencil scribbled on top to get a complete etching of it? Because it looks like some parts of things may be missing which may effect translation.
Thank you so much for tackling this difficult topic...i loved this!!!
You are so welcome!
This is an awesome video! Thank you! Combined with the quotes and additional readings it's impossible for someone with an open mind to not see that the facsimiles represent significant evidence for the historical authenticity of the Book of Abraham. The scholarship reveals it and backs it up. And this is only going to increase in the coming years.
@@adamholloway7963 seriously do you have nothing better to do with your time than troll lds topics!? Get a life. Fing ex Mormons. Can leave the Church but can't leave it alone. The ultimate Karen's
@@Madrok7
And, YOU, Jack, demonstrates that Mormons have a very difficult time leaving LDS apostates alone.
Thanks for the 100,000th demonstration!
@@Madrok7 Did Joseph translate it correctly? Or does it not matter because his incorrect translations feel right?
Guys....
Joseph smith getting close when guessing some parts of the facsimiles, does not make it a translation.
Why do we continue to ignore that according to Joseph, it was translated by the power of God, and so the close and incorrect annotations would only mean Gods power isn't great.
Either the power I'd God is not that accurate or Joseph guessed.
You can guess some Chinese characters too. Like the symbol from tree, person and sun.
That all Joseph Did, that or the power of God isn't very powerful.
@@getharryonsax are you a worthy LDS MEMBER?
If you are, you should talk to your bishop, if you aren’t you should get your facts straight…
Im so grateful for Joseph Smith a true prophet
I am grateful for the Rosetta Stone so we can translate Egyptian properly.
@@maryelms4821 I’m grateful for critical thinking. I’m grateful for the scientific method. I’m grateful for not starting with assumptions and following the evidence.
I believe the book of Mormon to be true...whether you not want to believe that's your choice...JS is a True prophet ..please don't put down the church...this is our belief and we stand by it...
But it all comes down to believing what is true. Joseph Smith is a lowlife con man.
No
user-gx4zvsd6v
s0 what ?
y0ur faith d0esn`t teach y0u t0 gr0w a pair ?
0r d0 y0u enj0y being abject ?
it d0esn`t seem t0 be giving y0u strength
rather has turned y0u int0 a mewIing wimp
" pIease d0nt put d0wn the church "
is n0t a c0nfident decIarati0n 0f faith
I don’t honestly know why people take so much time out of their lives to bash other people’s faith. I’m a member as well, and I have a strong testimony of the truthfulness of the Gospel. I would never go around and badmouth or dismiss another person’s religious faith. I instead choose to spend whatever time I have left building my own up!
He fails the test of a prophet in Deuteronomy.... That means, he's not a true prophet. Either gods a liar or he's not a prophet.
If you think he's a prophet after finding out he failed the test..... Probably need to give your Bible to someone, cause you obviously aren't using it.
Vary good , did Joseph Smith understand all these concepts that you pointed out no not in his day. And that's one of the reasons that makes it so fascinating you couldn't have known. Because at that time they were still learning about the Egyptians and the languages and what everything meant good work
It's obvious that Joseph Smith had no clue as to the meaning of the papyrus. If he had said something like "This is an ancient Egyptian funerary text, but through my prophetic gifts I see a hidden story about Abraham," we could cut him a little slack. But he didn't. What most likely happened was, he saw the lion-couch vignette, and got the idea to make up a story about Abraham on an altar being attacked by a wicked Egyptian priest. He probably got that idea from the Bible story of Abraham sacrificing his son Isaac. Smith's fanciful "interpretations" of the documents were debunked by scholars by 1859.
One name: Robert Ritner, teacher and debunker of John Gee. Ritner is clear on the facsimiles, book of Abraham "translation", and the first to show how Smith was copy-pasting missing pieces of the facsimiles as he (Ritner) was researching them early on. Smith was messing up badly (completely) with such things as the word "lake", which is made of two symbols, that Smith treats as two separate paragraphs of text completely unrelated to "lake" or even "water", not even one word. He also credits one facsimile as a copy of a missing/damaged temple wall painting (and has published on it), but that it still has nothing to do with the books of Abraham or Jacob. He also has debunked Gee many times and shown him not only to be a plagiarist of Ritner's own words and work, but that he has made fraudulent and misleading statements that no egyptologist could possibly make in good faith. His book and his looong youtube interviews about the subject are worth a read or listen, if only to understand the actual argument against the book of Abraham; but gird up your loins first. It will break the honest and the weak.
Thanks for your reply. I actually had Robert Ritner as a teacher before he passed away and respect him as a fellow Egyptologist, but I will say that the way the issues and evidence in relation to Joseph Smith are framed and then explained are problematic logically, although they are understandable when you come from a lens of disbelief and make assumptions based on that unbelief. I can only address some briefly here, but I do want it to be understood that nothing has definitively been "debunked" when all the evidence is carefully weighed and the framings or premises are correctly understood. For example, many people, including Ritner, assert that Joseph Smith ignorantly believed the three vignettes that became illustrations for the Book of Abraham were originally drawn next to the Book of Abraham text on the papyri, but this assumption does not hold up logically when the evidence is fully weighed. Egyptologists know that all three vignettes that Joseph Smith used to illustrate the Book of Abraham did not appear together next a singular text nor did they all come from the same papyrus, so Joseph Smith is clearly, logically, collecting pictures from multiple contexts and then relating them to the Book of Abraham text he claimed to translate. We know that the original context of these vignettes was that they were used for ancient Egyptian religious purposes, and it is possible that Joseph Smith also knew they were not originally illustrations for the Book of Abraham since he was collecting them from different locations in his collection of Egyptian papyri. Joseph Smith never claimed he was trying to restore ancient Egyptian religion. He claimed to be restoring the original Judeo-Christian religion, so he takes the Egyptian vignettes he collected from different parts of his collection and reinterprets them to match the story of Abraham and to address ancient but eternal truths that he wanted people to understand. Reinterpreting images or texts from one religious tradition for another is something that has been done for millennia. Since Joseph Smith is not trying to restore ancient Egyptian religion, then it should be of no surprise to us that he is not concerned with accurate restorations of the texts inside the facsimile (which he does not translate) because these texts deal with Egyptian religious ideas. Neither is he concerned with restoring with 100% accuracy all the broken figures of the vignettes as an ancient Egyptian would, because, again, he is not trying to restore Egyptian religion. Joseph Smith is merely trying to convey ancient ideas from the pictures and he is likening the characters in vignettes (like Osiris) to characters in the Book of Abraham (like Abraham) in order to teach eternal principles that are central to the Judeo-Christian religion. Now, you may not agree with the way I am framing this, but it is logical and is actually a more consistent view of the evidence than what Ritner and others have asserted.
@@johnthompson8540 So it sounds like you're saying Joseph is performing some kind of pseudoepigrapha with at least the vignettes. From Egyptian religion "rewritten/redrawn" to a form of judeo-christian text and imagery. It's definitely a better position than "translation". You have put a lot of words and thoughts of Joseph into your response that unfortunately read like opinion of what Joseph was doing. But if pseudoepigrapha is where you're going, there's at least some precedence in the Bible to lean on and make that argument that he's doing what others have done.
@@chuckkv Joseph claimed he translated the Book of Abraham text from a text on the papyri. Then he adapts and reinterprets a few vignettes from different contexts in relation to his translated text. Neither of these statements require the Book of Abraham text nor the explanations of the pictures to be called pseudepigrapha based on the actual meaning of the word.
@@johnthompson8540 No... Ritner very clearly demonstrated text, on the papyri, copied to the "translation" notes (gael etc), that Smith is completely mistranslating with paragraphs of English text next to them, and doesn't even show recognition that the two characters combine to be one word, and nowhere does he even begin to approach the understanding that it simply means one word, "lake". The concepts of Smith's mistranslated paragraphs then make their way into the Book of Abraham.
You need to explain what you mean when you say he [Joseph] then "reinterpreted" vignettes from different scrolls and contexts, to fit his "translation" of the text. The real context is the Egyptian contemporaries of those vignettes are plentiful and well known now, nearly 200 yrs later, and he got those vignette "reinterpretations" completely wrong. Are you arguing that the vignettes were Joseph using his imagination, driven by his textual "translation" , to copy-paste and redraw them into the pictures of the story of Abraham? That also is a better argument than saying the vignettes are _actual_ representations of the Book of Abraham, but that position necessarily weakens the argument that he was imagining here in the vignettes, but inspired over there in the text "translation". How can we tell when he's inspired or imagining if that's the case?
@@chuckkv The relationship of the GAEL to the Book of Abraham is a separate issue; nevertheless, when you look more closely at the evidence, it is not as clear as many have assumed. It requires one to ignore a lot of fundamental problems in order to conclude that Joseph Smith was creating whole paragraphs from single characters on the Breathing papyrus. I addressed this in my review article “We May Not Understand Our Words:The Book of Abraham and the Concept of Translation in The Pearl of Greatest Price." I don't think we are allowed to post links here but it easy to find via search if you are interested in being better informed on the issues.
And the mental gymnastics gold medal goes to…
They are always running away from the past, why?
Seriously, it's almost impressive how they deal with the cognitive dissonance they have to endure.
You do know that book was proved to be something totally different, right?
You do know that Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists, right?
Catalyst theory eh? You should watch Dr Ritners work on the issue. It’s really quite clear.
@@Think_4_Yourself Looking at it now.
These are some long videos.
@@Think_4_Yourself Ritner?
You are right, Jospeh Smith is the worst false prophet next to Muhammad
Thanks for posting this
If Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, then the Book of Abraham is true, regardless of whether it can be reconciled to the learning of the world that we have today or any historical evidence that we have found to date. Many will use that to "disprove" the Book of Abraham or to "prove" that Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet of God. Well, as in most cases, prophets were never proven by their alignment with the world view. Those who followed the prophets in the old days and in these days have the promise of the Holy Ghost to testify of the truth. I can't prove the Book of Mormon but I know its true. Every time I read it and ask I get an answer. And if in the end, it turns out to be not true, well, I'll be proud of the life I tried to live following its teachings of the Savior. I know Joseph Smith was a prophet also. I've received answers to that or to the confirmations I've received that our current prophet President Nelson is a prophet of God today. I'm grateful for that.
@@bossendenwoodconvict agree to disagree, but even still, you can look at the Book of Mormon and discover for yourself if it is true by its teachings. If it is true then Joseph Smith is a prophet also. Either way you go it works.
@@bossendenwoodconvict God has promised the spirit of truth to testify of God and Christ, their doctrine, their works, and their truth to all those who sincerely seek with real intent. It sounds like you want a certain type of proof. Well, I'm not the person to give that to you.
I personally believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, called by him to bring forth the Book of Mormon, which is another testament of Jesus Christ. I have a personal spiritual witness of both. Those witnesses, along with the teachings of the Book of Mormon have brought me peace and happiness. I certainly am open to new scripture. Our faith actually promises that more is coming. I do not however believe that it will come in the form of a new religion that has broken off from ours (such as the Book of Jeranek professes).
I believe that God has a prophet on the earth to lead His Church. I have a spiritual witness of that as well (our current and past prophets). So I will follow that witness, and our prophet who I believe speaks and leads as Jesus Christ directs (and the great thing is that I can receive this witness again any time I ask or have doubts). If our prophet rejects the Book of Jeranek as false scripture then I certainly will listen.
I can't prove this for you and you are entitled to your opinion which I respect. God bless!
@@bossendenwoodconvict I agree, lots of people will find a different path. I try not to judge that. I will try and be true to what I believe. It will all be sorted out in the end. God is more powerful than any of us.
David Holdstock
I agree with you too, that all can’t be right. Because as it’s written in the Bible:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 7 KJV)
7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.(Amos 3 KJV)
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; (Ephesians 3 KJV)
They all can’t be right if there is no the unity of the spirits,
this is what Apostle Paul wrote:
“3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
Only ONE is RIGHT, with the true foundations, with Jesus Christ as the chief corner stone :
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; (Ephesians 2 KJV)
The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints
David Holdstock
You are right,👍
Thank you, I am not trying to change your faith. I am sharing not debating😁🙏🏻
Jesus did build His Church along with the keys of kingdom of heaven and also the conditions:
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 16 KJV)
Then also just like you said, also this is what Jesus said :
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
(Matthew 21 KJV)
So I believe that the Kingdom Of God with the keys have given to the nation of The USA
The same kingdom with Jesus Christ as the chief corner stone,
and the apostles and prophets
who were given the keys and power of the Priesthood as the foundations:
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
...................................................
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Thank you for reading my reply.
May God Bless you and your family 🙏🏻❤️
Video well done👌👌. Thank you for all the time and work that went into this👍.
@@joek2364 I suggest getting a life and stop trolling lds topics.
@@joek2364 Get a life, poor Joe, I fell bad for you, u must be so lonely.
The scroll was found with an Egyptian mummy and is a common scroll buried with Egyptians. It speaks about the mans life, death, and resurrection. The notion that it would have anything to do with Abraham would have to be supported by an overwhelming amount of evidence that would only increase with the advancements in Egyptology. We have less than zero here.
This channel is alarmingly stupid. All the presenters have spaghetti arms.
Why are you ignoring the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologists?
@@Glen.Danielsen I don't understand the question. My child? Evangelical preschool? Are you making a statement of some kind?
What I always find interesting is that people always want "signs" that what is presented is true and factual. The Book of Mormon is replete with examples of individuals who wanted a "sign." Unfortunately, that didn't work out for most of them, and it won't work out well for those of this age who want a "sign." Read the book, pray about what you are reading with honesty of heart. That is the way to test your doubts.
timcrae8826
pretend y0u mean ?
aIways w0rks
Do you apply this same level of scrutiny to other areas of your life?
Yeah. God struck them dumb and the people trampled them. "And thus we see what happens to those who use logic and empirical evidence."
Weird how so many negative comments ignore everything the video says.
I guess haters gotta hate? I just wish some of us could have a rational dialogue on Zoom or Teams so we’d have enough time to talk our positions through and make some headway.
I’d be happy to zoom with you
because virtually everything said in the video is nonsense.
@@allzeenamesaretaken What would be the purpose? To “enlighten” me as to what these facsimiles really represent?
@@duane9166 you said you wanted a rational dialogue and that’s what my intention would be. I would let the information speak for itself and would be respectful to your point of view and seriously consider and discuss your opinion.
@@duane9166 you made the invitation so I don’t understand why you are being so defensive and accusatory. Is that not what your intention was? Or did you just want confirmation of your own beliefs? If that’s the case then don’t offer these kinds of dialogues (edited for typos)
The Egyptian environment artwork is amazing. Who did the artwork? A studio or artist in UT?
Abraham!
@@adamholloway7963 Yes lol. You do know the Bible teaches that Abraham went down into Egypt after God revealed himself to Abraham right? Abraham was the first generation of believers after about 4 apostate generations. He was a decendant of Shem. The Egyptians were descendants of Ham. I wonder if God had a purpose in having the famine wax sore in the land forcing Abraham to go into the land of his cousins? Maybe it was teach the Gospel and call the children of Noah through the loins of Ham to repentance. I wonder if God would have revealed himself just prior to that in order for Abraham to bear the Name of God among the Apostate Egyptians and try to restore them to the knowledge of the true God of Heaven and abandon their idolatry. God calling prophets to reclaim lost and apostate branches of the family of Adam? Surely Abraham would have kept a record? How do you know that the original funerary facimilies werent produced by Abraham while he was in Egypt proselytizing among Gods other children? Certainly the documents weren't the originals but you can't prove Abraham wasn't the original source for the extensive knowledge the Egyptians had of the cosmos? Here is another thought. If moses wrote the 5 books of Moses where did he get so much knowledge about the events that preceeded him up to the creation? The Hebrews were in an apostate condition and in servitude to Hams children. There were no prophets among them or why choose Moses to deliver them if another Prophet was already among the captives? Where did moses come up with the information about the creation, the fall, the coming of the Messiah, Abraham's travels, Melchizedek, Noahs boat and everything else? I wonder if Abraham left a record among the Hamites and 600 years later Moses is being schooled in all the best learning Egypt had to offer and then he stumbles upon the writings of Abraham. I imagine there was a prophecy in Abraham's record of someone being raised up to deliver Gods people. God put Moses in Pharaoh's court for a reason. The israelites new of a prophecy. What aboyt Joesph of Egypt? Wonder if he left any records in Egypt while he was basically Pharoah there for decades? Do you have any records or writings of Joseph of egypt? He was the greatest of seers even above Abraham Issac and Jacob. Your Bible is incomplete and you don't have all the writings of the Prophets. The Bible even mentions many other books and references other records that aren't in the Bible so that should tell you something! I'm not saying the Bible isn't true. I'm saying it doesn’t contain all the writings of every prophet ever called by God. You can't deny that because the Bible itself proves that. Where are the records of Adam, Seth, Enos, Mahahlaleel, jared, Enoch, Nahom, Jeremy, Esaias, Jethro, Joesph of Egypt, Abraham, Gad the seer, and many others. Here is a sample of what is yet to come forth:
Lost books
book of the covenant, Ex. 24:7.
book of the wars of the Lord, Num. 21:14.
book of Jasher, Josh. 10:13 (2 Sam. 1:18).
Samuel … wrote it in a book, 1 Sam. 10:25.
book of the acts of Solomon, 1 Kgs. 11:41.
book of Samuel the seer, 1 Chr.
book of Nathan the prophet, 2 Chr. 9:29.
book of Shemaiah the prophet, 2 Chr. 12:15.
acts of Abijah … in the story of the prophet Iddo, 2 Chr. 13:22.
book of Jehu, 2 Chr. 20:34.
written among the sayings of the seers, 2 Chr. 33:19.
spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene, Matt. 2:23.
I wrote unto you in an epistle, 1 Cor. 5:9.
as I wrote afore in few words, Eph. 3:3.
read the epistle from Laodicea, Col. 4:16. when I gave all diligence to write unto you, Jude 1:3.
Enoch also … prophesied of these, Jude 1:14.
There are many more records that would make the cannon of Scripture complete. Aren't you the least bit interested to learn about the other records and prophecies concerning Christ? I wonder what other knowledge was revealed to these other Prophets? If your not interested in all God has caused to be spoken or written about Him or that he has ever caused to be prophesied you should probably ask yourself why?
Lost books
The so-called lost books of the Bible are those documents that are mentioned in the Bible in such a way that it is evident they were considered authentic and valuable but that are not found in the Bible today. Sometimes called missing scripture, they consist of at least the following: book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14); book of Jasher (Josh. 10:13; 2 Sam. 1:18); book of the acts of Solomon (1 Kgs. 11:41); book of Samuel the seer (1 Chr. 29:29); book of Gad the seer (1 Chr. 29:29); book of Nathan the prophet (1 Chr. 29:29; 2 Chr. 9:29); prophecy of Ahijah (2 Chr. 9:29); visions of Iddo the seer (2 Chr. 9:29; 12:15; 13:22); book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12:15); book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34); sayings of the seers (2 Chr. 33:19); an epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, earlier than our present 1 Corinthians (1 Cor. 5:9); possibly an earlier epistle to the Ephesians (Eph. 3:3); an epistle to the Church at Laodicea (Col. 4:16); and some prophecies of Enoch, known to Jude (Jude 1:14). To these rather clear references to inspired writings other than our current Bible may be added another list that has allusions to writings that may or may not be contained within our present text but may perhaps be known by a different title; for example, the book of the covenant (Ex. 24:7), which may or may not be included in the current book of Exodus; the manner of the kingdom, written by Samuel (1 Sam. 10:25); the rest of the acts of Uzziah written by Isaiah (2 Chr. 26:22).
The foregoing items attest to the fact that our present Bible does not contain all of the word of the Lord that He gave to His people in former times and remind us that the Bible, in its present form, is rather incomplete.
Matthew’s reference to a prophecy that Jesus would be a Nazarene (2:23) is interesting when it is considered that our present Old Testament seems to have no statement as such. There is a possibility, however, that Matthew alluded to Isa. 11:1, which prophesies of the Messiah as a Branch from the root of Jesse, the father of David. The Hebrew word for branch in this case is netzer, the source word of Nazarene and Nazareth. Additional references to the Branch as the Savior and Messiah are found in Jer. 23:5; 33:15; Zech. 3:8; 6:12; these use a synonymous Hebrew word for branch, tzemakh.
The Book of Mormon makes reference to writings of Old Testament times and connection that are not found in the Bible, the Book of Mormon, or in any other known source. These writings are of Zenock, Zenos, and Neum (1 Ne. 19:10; Alma 33:3-17). An extensive prophecy by Joseph in Egypt (which is not in the Bible) is also apparent from 2 Ne. 3:4-22, and a prophecy of Jacob (not found in the Bible) is given in Alma 46:24-26. These writings were evidently contained on the plates of brass spoken of in the Book of Mormon (1 Ne. 5:10-13).
@@adamholloway7963 You can't seriously be this ignorant! God does not have to appear to me personally for me to know the Bible is true! Has God appeared to you and told you my religon is false? Guess your wrong if we're using your logic. I've already told you it came directly from God. That is my witness and Testimony. How i obtained my personal revelation is none of your business lol. The bible is not only incomplete but has many errors and interpolations and changes by wicked priests who sought to destroy the true doctrine of Christ. I believe its true history if its translated correctly which large portions of it aren't. You would know that if you were being led by Prophets of God!
@@adamholloway7963 Also the underlying assumption was not that the Bible is accurate History. In fact it was partially the opposite! If the record is incomplete then how could it possibly be completely accurate history? Accurate would be having a complete map and not just 1/2 the map or portions of the map! Thats why there are so many christian religions today. They all have pieces of the map and try and interpret the Bible based on an incomplete cannon. If we had everything we would be unified. As as side note. If your going to try and tell me no man can see the face of God and live, which is most likely why you keep asking me if God has personally visited me, I can prove through Old Testament and New Testament scripture that that is a part that is not translated correctly and was intentionally changed to mislead people. There are other places where Moses Spake to God Face to Face and Steven saw Christ sitting on the right hand of God.
8:49 The irony of quoting Dr Ritner in this video can’t be overstated. 😊
Whats so sad and pathetic is that this comment section is filled with folks that have no respect for religion. Its one thing to find the Book of Abraham to be false, and go about your day. It's another to publically and pathetically attempt to tear it and those who believe it to be authentic down.
I dont believe in Islam, but I and any other respectful person wouldn't get on the comment section of a video about Muhammed and try and tear it down.
The LDS Church tore down my religion when they published an essay that contradicted my beliefs and what I was taught for decades. Why did they go around doing that? Couldn't they just leave me alone?
What are you talking about? The LDS church has taunted and attempted to refute many religions... the important word there is attempted. The LDS church is full of hypocrisy and I think people here just want to get current LDS followers, and potential converts, to see the light and steer away from Josephs teachings
@RiIesw00Iner
Whats so sad and pathetic
is that y0u think s0IeIy because s0me0ne beIieves in an invisibIe man they have t0 be respected ???!!!
why w0uId I respect any0ne trying t0 f0rce n0n reIigi0us members 0f s0ciety t0 c0mpIy with reIigi0us Iaws 0n ab0rti0n and h0m0sexuaIity f0r exampIe ?
0r steering the p0IiticaI agenda t0wards the0cracy
why d0es s0me0ne wh0 wants t0 impIement church auth0rity 0ver secuIar s0ciety deserve t0 be respected ?
is it because they think they kn0w better ?
because they have an imaginary friend?
p0inting 0ut that the b00k is faIse,
is a way 0f iIIustrating these pe0pIe with their imaginary invisibIe friend have n0 auth0rity, their p0siti0n is em0ti0naI their g0d fake and n0thing t0 d0 with reaIity and are thus unw0rthy 0f respect
I haven`t even menti0ned the very 0bvi0us charIatans wh0se s0Ie purp0se is t0 grift cash 0ut 0f guIIibIe idi0ts wh0 wiII beIieve anything
d0 they deserve respect ?
if y0u want t0 have respect f0r a reIIgi0n that caIIs f0r a h0Iy war against the infideI ie y0u and me then g0 ahead
c0z thats a reaI sign they respect y0u and y0ur beIief right ?
No one is under any obligation to hold respect for ridiculous fairytales.
The thing is how would one man just come up with all this stuff by himself and especially during this time it doesn’t make sense that it would be made up or fraud.
And if he was a nobody how would he and where would he get all this information and education Especially during this time where they didn’t have much education and it really doesn’t seem like he was into or very educated like a professor or someone that was studying or learning things from Egypt it had to of come from something or someone it just wouldn’t make sense for it to be false, fraud, and or made up.
a large amount of the book is blatant plagiarism. he was a charlatan before he wrote the book and he convinced a guy with a lot of wealth that he had golden plates. he had to come up with something. he couldnt copy the exact story again after Martin Harris "lost" which is another GLARING show of falsehoods.
Once he was the leader of the church he was marrying women, their daughters etc. with promises of saving them in the afterlife. He definitely consummated many of these marriages. a man will do a LOT for money and women. This is only a few hundred years ago, people were writing huge stories even THOUSANDS of years ago. I don't see how it is so far fetched. JRR Tolkien and JK Rowling and LR Hubbard all wrote hundreds of thousands of words of gripping fiction and there are very few people who believe these stories to be true (except the latter part of LRH's work)
@@coltonwilding2192 I believe Joseph Smith was inspired for us.
@@IITaDHGdALToNII I don't know if they are glaring. I suppose I live more by faith than trying to prove. Thanks for your input.
We get arguments on both sides of the fence. I wonder how it will turn out.
4:10 HOW CAN YOU NOT MENTION THAT THIS IMAGE WAS INCOMPLETE AND IN FRAGMENTS AND JOSEPH SMITH "COMPLETED" THE MISSING PORTIONS???!!!!!!!!!
@@krismurphy7711 and that he completed it WRONG
There is no way to compare what you’re claiming to the correct, historical, scholarly, or Biblical understanding of anything remotely connected to this.
Love how they gloss over that all of Joseph smiths translations were wrong. 🙄
I love how you must have not watched this video. As more comes out, it looks more and more like he was pretty accurate. Enjoy your week!
@Alpha Centauri what’s your source? I’d like to take a look.
@Alpha Centauri we still waiting on your source...
@@dcarts5616 just because you can barely make some connections to a few of the things doesn't mean there is any evidence, for two things that maybe match there are 50 things that are entirely wrong, how do you defend that?
@@Valeriamtzp anachronistically speaking the list was over 250 items, and as time goes on it’s been cut down to where about 85% have been found accurate, possible, or leaning true. So 50 FROM 250 is pretty good. Stay tuned! Great comment though.
This was uploaded on my birthday!
Where are the CC for us hard of hearing?????????
WOW!!
Talk about mental gymnastics!!
This video is a great example...which mean you must have an infinite amount of FAITH
to believe it.
DJ
Can I bring back Santa Claus (my fav. fictional character), if I exercise enough faith??
Just because an answer is more nuanced and takes more explanation dosen't mean you're doing mental gymnastics to try and get around the truth. Some answers are incredibly complex and it takes a great deal of patience and focus to come to a correct interpretation of the evidence. That is what is happening with the Book of Abraham. We would love a simple "Yes, Joseph Smith got everything right as modern Egyptologists interpret it," or "no, he got it all wrong." The fact of the matter is that he got a surprising amounr of things right and a lot of things wrong. To me, its more impressive the things he got right because if he were just making things up, there is no way he could guess so many things that turned out to be true. That leaves us with the question of why are there things that don't appear consistent with modern Egyptological interpretations. Which I personally think the second approach the video mentions is the most likely explanation.
@@tylerahlstrom4553 You win the Gold Medal!
@@tylerahlstrom4553 "The fact of the matter is that he got a surprising amounr of things right and a lot of things wrong."
Bottom line though is, the papyrus have nothing to do with the Biblical character Abraham or the Judeo-Christian religion at all. Joseph Smith claimed that the hieratic writing was in Abraham's own hand, and was an account of events in Abraham's life. Since none of that is true, it doesn't matter what else Smith may have gotten right. If he wasn't 100% right about everything on the papyrus, then the Book of Abraham is not a "translation" of the papyrus and Smith had no ability to "translate" ancient Egyptian writing.
You know damned well that Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists.
I love how our standard works has a picture of an erect phallus.
Min the symbol of creation.
God, sitting upon his throne-ah, with a bon-ah.
Incredible amount of thought and excellent delivery of it. David I wish you could explain it all on a more rudimentary level for me, one on one. I very much appreciate the thought you leave us with at the end. Continue...by study and faith! Thank you.
I don't think anyone fully understands it yet, the reality of what brother Gregersen has opened up for us in his videos. He has unveiled an issue here that no one in the church has successfully tackled at least academically. This is obviously about the timeline of a covenant path back to Gods presence. As I stated before, this whole problem exists because Joseph Smith was killed before he could fully finish this project and therefore didn't explain his full intentions for completing his entire explanation. Anti Mormons have taken full advantage of his missing conclusions by spinning their own manufactured theories, thus hindering many church members faith and testimonies. What Paul has done as shed new light on their fraudulent anti Mormon presentations placed on line. I now have a new and greater degree of faith as a direct result of his hard work.
No one since the time of Joseph Smith has ever defined what this actually means today. Paul is demonstrating verifiably sound evidence, it is well articulated into such great detail by his many videos. Paul takes it so much farther by relating all of this directly to an old testament vision where the book of Daniel opens this up so vividly for the first time. It is an amazing continuity fully explained in his other videos. I don't think it has quite sunk in yet, exactly how such an academic achievement as this is, has suddenly exploded on the scene right here today!. Watch his new video titled "Book of Abraham part 9"
a lot of words said with little clear content
Everything we have of JS where he translated and we can compare it he was wrong 100% of the time. The lengths you went to in order to make these things fit is incredible.
of course you are lying grownup
Yes. Instead of spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ to the world, tens of thousands hours will be spent on trying to prove that the Book of Mormon is true, and how are they trying to do it? With tales of Egypt, Meso America, North American mound builders, Hopewell forts, etc etc. It's so evident it hurts, can't people see it, just understand? Everything, all evidence videos I've watched so far (and they are many) proves absolutely nothing, nothing at all. But I suppose they are made to keep members of the church satisfied like you can satisfy your child by reading a fairytale before he falls asleep.
@@petrisalonen4893 hahaha you are an archeologist? No
@@petrisalonen4893 yea never study history. You might learn something that interferes with your ignorance.
I believe in Jesus Christ! I also believe that Joseph Smith Jr. was the foreordained Prophet to come to this earth to start the process of the restoration of Christs Gospel! I love Joseph Smith Jr. He definitely was not perfect, but That just makes all that he did seem even more impossible. Because it shows that it was not him, but it was God who enabled and quickened him.
All who judge, you will be judged with that same judgement in the which you judge.
So, how do you feel about Joseph Smith plural marrying eleven women who were already married to other men? Including the wife of apostle Orson Hyde?
it holds up! as good as astrology does. free to instill any meaning that confirmation bias has worked its way through.
@@chinmeysway "All who judge, you will be judged with that same judgement in the which you judge." Seeing how I'm not committing fraud in order to have sex with underage women, I'm ok with that.
So you're saying God deceived Joseph Smith to incorrectly translating the egyptian languages that are clearly legible on facsimile #2 & #3?
There's a great book by an LDS author that shows that there's perfect harmony between the prophetic statements concerning the garden of Eden being in Missouri and the Old Testament account concerning the garden of Eden. It's called Canaan, Babylon, and Egypt A Comparative Theological Analysis on Creation sold by Eborn Books.
Question: Do you think that the Indians who lived all around the Garden of Eden in western Missouri had to be very quiet so Adam and Eve wouldn't know they were there?
@@randyjordan5521 If you would like a logical response, first, come up with a logical question.
@@randyjordan5521 bruh. That's probably the dumbest objection to Mormonism I've ever heard
@@FlyingAlfredoSaucer So it should be easy for you to answer my question then.
Archaeological research shows that Asian people crossed the Bering straits and began populating the Americas 20-25k years ago.
How did those thousands of Amerinds manage to survive the global flood of Noah, and continue to occupy the Americas until the Spaniards arrived in the 1500s?
@@randyjordan5521 oh I'm not a Mormon, so I agree that it doesn't make sense with the whole Garden of Eden being in Missouri thing and such.
I just think Adam and Eve having a noise complaint over their Native neighbors isn't a good objection
Brilliant. Thank you.
All of these points are counter to what Joseph said. Was Joseph wrong about the origin of the papyrus and it’s translation but somehow it’s still right? Joseph said he was literally translating them and started creating a grammar and alphabet of the Egyptian language where he used symbols from the papyrus giving the degrees and it’s translation into English. Zub Zool Oan was one of the characters translations. Either it’s what Joseph said it was when god revealed his ability to translate or it’s not. Joseph can be wrong about it’s origin and translation but correct about the boa text.
Can you find the quote where he stated this or is this just your opinion?
hahaha Joseph Smith translated many parts of text of the Book of Abraham which even Egyptologists agree are correct. Humm how did he do that? Best tell the truth pal
@Alpha Centauri Hor used the Book of the Dead which had the Book of Abraham on it. He added his name. A common practice.
Oh Shawn you replied to me and it came across my e-mail. Sorry you seemed rather angry. I don't know why? Has the LDS Church hurt you in some way? If so I'm dang sorry. People need to shape up and not be so critical, including me at times.
And not be offensive. I guess we all have our views from side or the other. The truth will be revealed some day I suspect.
I wonder which way it will go and what will occur. I lean toward Joseph Smith being a prophet. I don't have that pure know-
ledge that some LDS have claimed to have. If Joseph Smith was a scoundrel, people should try reading the LDS D & C.
A scoundrel wouldn't say things that are contained in there I don't believe. All the best to you.
You're supposed to compare the facsimiles to the Book of Abraham, not the facsimiles to the explanation. You're supposed to compare the facsimiles to the Book of Abraham to show contrast between God and Satan. This is proper interpretation. This proper interpretation is what debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith.
EXACTLY….. PEOPLE SHOULD ONLY TRANSLATE IN WAYS THAT PROVE JOSEPH TRUE…. LIKE PAUL GREGERSON….. NOT ACADEMICALLY OR FACTUALLY LIKE THE ARROGANT LDS FUNDED EGYPTOLOGISTS DO
Step 1: Start with the conclusion that the Book of Abraham is infallible, and Joseph Smith accurately translated the papyri.
Step 2: Find any crumb of evidence to support that JS "interpreted" something mostly-accurately, even if it is pretty obvious to anyone looking at the facsimiles.
Step 3: Get a faithful Mormon Egyptologist to agree with these to provide an academic facade.
Step 4: Profit?
@@stephengnbThe papyri, from what I understand, was never translated.
@@stephengnbThe papyri represents Satan.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii There were at least some parts that were "translated," at least some of which was used to read the names of some of the people depicted in the scenes. Of course, he didn't translate the names correctly. Not even close.
Thanks for posting this!
Smith purchased a papyrus from a travelling raree show and "translated" it. This document still exists. It is a Ptolemaic- Period copy of the Egyptian Book of The Dead. End of story.
He actually purchased multiple papyri, one of which is a copy of the Book of Breathings. That does not tell us what the others, which were lost in Great Chicago fire.
@@brettmajeske3525look up the Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language by the church. Also the papyrus that survived the fire have been compared to the facsimiles and they match. We can look at both and see Joseph Smith got it wrong.
@@allzeenamesaretaken Umm. you might want to check again. None of the papyrus sold to the Chicago museum survived the fire. I am curious why you think any did?
I am very familiar with the GAEL, a document compiled at Nauvoo long after the production of the Book of Abraham by William Phelps and other scribes. No one is claiming the GAEL is accurate, but since it is a purely secular document that does not claim to be the result of miraculous translation I am not sure why it matters.
It's never the end of story (that smith was a fraud) unless you ignore a host of other evidence...like that the book of Mormon has 15 million evidences and counting
Why dont you take a look at an actual egyptologyst like dr Robert Ritner who can tell you what these facsimiles are and how J.S could not translate egyptian to save his life. But yea keep up the good work. 👏👏👏
The Egyptologists were debunked, proven stupid. Joseph Smith was right, the arrogant Egyptologists were wrong. Care to refute?
Because they would have to admit Jospeh Smith is a false prophet. That is a big no for these morons.
Sorry, *Mormans
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists, how do you respond?
@@richardholmes5676 you're saying that false prophet Jospeh Smith actually translated that scroll correctly?
why are you deleting my posts?
Are you putting links in your comments? Comments with links are automatically removed to prevent spam. Posts are only deleted by admin if they contain excessive profanity, are hateful or otherwise disrespectful.
@@Bookofmormoncentralofficial NO LINKS, NO PROFANITY, NO HATE, NO DISRESPECT...ONLY CENSORSHIP. TELL ME AGAIN YOU ARE NOT CENSORINGTHE EVIDENCE FOR THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM.
@@michaelparks5669you seem angry
@@mikkifrompreston4396 Censorship was the first act the Nazis did to Jews and Christians to create hate. Note removing LDS voices is the modern version hiding the truth. As a former paratrooper who was willing to give my life for our freedoms it makes me very angry to see religion and free speech attacked by those who repeat what the Nazi monsters did. I HATE NAZIS...Indiana Jones.
Ill take the explanations of a prophet, seer and revelator over scholars any day
Touché, I concur! So grateful we have Latter Day ones !
Oh wow, dangerous path you are on.
I have watched so many documentaries about religions, sects, cults.
Their members all say the same that you do, always adding that they felt “the Spirit” when their leader spoke and that they couldn’t deny their testimonies. Mormonism seems to not have a monopoly on feeling the “Holy Spirit”.
However, many religious people were misled, taken advantage off, abused, and many even ended up dead because of their blind faith in their leader.
The only person you are ever able to trust in your faith is yourself. Only you have the best intentions for yourself.
I believe you're right. As Paul Gregersen debunked the Egyptologist scholar opinions against Joseph Smith by presenting proper interpretational understanding on translation.
All you have to do is READ Joseph Smith's original writing on what he said about BOA, and then read the modern confirmed translation. HE LIED!
Is there a link to this?
How would you know? You don't have to original papyri. Most of it was burned in the chicago fire.
@@GADBabaganoosh There are more than enough of Josephs writings to show that he is a liar, on this issue and many others. Open your eyes, read the Gospel of John, and then call out to the Jesus of the Bible! Your eternity depends on it! You are in danger of hell my friend!
@@howardedward5339
aIways an unassaiIabIe p0siti0n
decrying 0ne reIigi0n as n0nsense whiIst pr0p0sing 0ne which is equaIIy n0nsense
y0u cant even see the ir0ny
and y0u get a viIe and hide0us threat 0f eternaI t0rture in there t00
and y0u think y0u are d0ing us a fav0r I0I
sheer arr0gance
Personally, I doubt Abraham himself, even though he lived for a while in Egyptian settings, knew accurately the meaning of the facsimiles. Regardless of whether he did, he wanted to convey his inspirations from God, and conveniently used these facsimiles to depict his own history and revelations from God about the universe. Therefore, attempting to reconcile the inspired Book of Abraham and make it subordinate with modern secular understandings of the facsimiles, etc. is contrarily and a waste of time.
Yeah that sounds way more plausible…. Abraham must have been SO insecure about his own drawing skills that rather than draw his own depictions it makes WAY more sense for him to stumble across some random drawings and project his story onto them…. Plus think of all the time he saved not having to draw his own depictions. I mean look at the detail of the facsimiles! Must have saved him an entire afternoon’s worth of work.
I am utterly baffled that people believe this nonsense…. It’s sad that so many people NEED to believe that the church is true so badly that they are willing to accept the most ridiculous theories.
The Church Essay on the topic renders this video irrelevant. The LDS Church has admitted the papyri have nothing to do with Abraham. For some reason apologists, like in this video, are attempting to undo the Church Essay and revert back to these falsehoods.
What church essay on the topic? Please provide evidence.
I think you're conflating the papyri (which were destroyed in a museum fire in the 19th century) and an extant scrap of facsimile 1. Joseph Smith translated The Book of Abraham from a large papyri scroll and a small papyri scroll. The Facsimiles are translated in context with these scrolls and inspiration of ancient meanings.
@@lynphillips2109 That's all too convenient to say "it must have existed but oops, it got destroyed".
The same logic is used for why there is no Book of Mormon evidence. It was destroyed.
I reject these claims. The evidence for the book of Mormon does exist, just not where anyone is looking.
No evidence for the Book of Mormon? Really? How do you explain the testimony of the 8 witnesses and the 3 witnesses? With integrity please.
@@Jakey-puff I said the evidence does exist. Read my comment again.
The testimony of the 8 and 3 witnesses isn't the type of evidence I'm talking about. That is evidence of the Golden Plates, not internal evidence of the Book of Mormon. The two can be separate. And they are.
Robert Ritner is much more convincing, logical, and detailed in his explanations. Also, he doesn't have any animosity for the church nor does he make any claims about the veracity of the church. He's not anti-mormon, his claim is only specific to his field of study and his desire to disprove shoddy scientific egyptological study. Go read and listen to Ritner as an apposing argument to this so you can hear both sides.
Ritner lied.......he was a anti Mormon.....never translated the text parts which proved Joseph Smith was correct....He did not know what the purpose of facsimile #2 was for.....etc etc
Liar liar pants on fire...is that your counter argument?@@michaelparks5669
John Doe obviously didn't watch the video 😂
Seriously fella, you need to man up and stop being economical with the truth & start telling people the facts.
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii In your mind maybe so but away from that, no he didn't. Is Gregersen still pushing that ancient biblical mathematical code that was revealed to him? 😂 He's delusional.
have never seen Paul Gregersen lose the argument.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii Maybe that's because he's a pathological liar.
@@johnmichaelson9173Could you provide the data on pathological liars never losing arguments?
CUANDO EN ESPAÑOL'?
He said "and holding a flagellum" with a straight face. Impressive. 9:44
There are 29 known sources for the BOOK of Breathing which the facimilie in the book of abraham is one, specifacly facimilie 1
in the original 1842 version joseph smith gives his interpretation of the image.
After recovering the original papary, scholars have unanimously agreed it is from a copy of the book of breathing.
18 of the 29 available sources for this book of breathing have images/facimilies which always are to the context of the story.
So what are the facts?
Joseph smith did give an interpretaion of this specific image.
We know what the context and image actually mean and they dont support Joseph at all.
You can believe Josephs interpretation over the evidence if you would like. Or even believe that he knew the true meaning of the document, despite the context of that document, but we would call that making stuff up down here in reality.
The arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith were debunked due to false assumptions on translational understanding.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8iiNo, they were not.
@@adamchristensen2648 I don't know what your objecting to
Well, he deleted his comment so at this point neither do I. I assume he was claiming something about the papyri or the book of breathing that was not supported by the evidence and instead tried to justify a con man's lies after the fact.
@@adamchristensen2648 ahh I see, I can see you replying to him now aswell. Well all you can do is put out the facts haha if he deleted his objection he must have looked into it? Hopefully for the better haha
subtitle please, thank you!
Subtitles and automatic translations need to be activated
If you look at the example of the hypocephalus a boat with an insect appears in that spot.
"Some scholars" = That one Egyptologists who's a Mormon and thus agrees without regardless of the evidence = John Gee.
Let's face it, if the book of Mormon were true, Egyptologists would be able to back it up. Instead, it's only less than a handful of all Egyptologists in the whole world who fight to support the Mormon perspective. If you have facts on your side, it's not difficult to defend your side, but because Mormonism is the most obvious scam in a millennium, it's impossible to honestly defend.
What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith?
Really..how many proper scholars have debunked the book of abraham...it is not about abraham at all...how could so many pages come out of this piece of paper....its josephs magic world view.....
I don’t know. It seems like a lot to make up to me. Especially considering Joseph was a kid
Proper scholars? Paul Gregersen debunked the scholars by presenting proper interpretation.
Imagine being the Egyptian who spent all the time and effort writing a text to help his homies prepare funerals only for some racist pasty polygamist white dude to completely mistranslate it lol
Joseph Smith didn't mistranslate it. He merely used the lion-couch scene on the papyrus as inspiration to make up a story about Abraham being sacrificed by a wicked priest.
The arrogant Egyptologists were debunked, proven stupid.
The argument against the phallus is ridiculous. Saying he wasn’t always depicted with one is like saying Jesus isn’t always depicted with a beard. Well, yea it probably does exist but it’s one of his defining characteristics in art. Just google Min and tell me how many images you see of him (from the Egyptian times, not modern) that don’t have an erect phallus.
You're supposed to compare the facsimiles to the Book of Abraham, not the facsimiles to the explanation. You're supposed to compare the facsimiles (counterfeit) to the Book of Abraham as a way to show contrast.
Even the translations of the facsimile are wrong. The whole book is just pseudographia based on common funerary texts that come from multiple different mummies.
Hmmm...
Thursday - November 19, 2020.
Verily, through a stone in a hat, saith the Lord God: "I would that ye should return, in the facsimile, the phallus."
15 min video and you never even address the egyptian languages that are legible on the facsimiles themselves. Joseph Smith numbers and points directly to the language's characters and tells us what they mean. He was 100% wrong in his translation of the egyptian languages on the facsimiles!
The egyptian writing tells us who the people are and what scene it is and to whom it is for... yet you never once even elude to this fact. Many would consider that a lie by the sin of Omission. I'm embarrassed for you.
You literally ignored the content of the entire video. Oh, and he practically quotes your complaint here at 3:25.
@@vendingdudes are you kidding me? He never addresses the actual egyptian language written on the facsimiles. Not the interpretations, the actual language that can be read and properly translated by Egyptologist and scholars today. Joseph Smith got them 100% wrong.
@@vendingdudes Open your scriptures and read where Joseph points to the languages and even numbers them giving the translations, incorrectly.
@@franklinanderson9687 Do you notice that he attempts an interpretation of the pictures in facsimile 2 but when it comes to writing it is usually "will be given in the own due time of the Lord" There is no original fac 2 but we have a sketch and we can see parts were missing in the upper right hand corner. When fac 2 was published in Times and Seasons parts were inserted in the gaps that do not normally belong there. The figure in the boat was copied from another piece of JS papyri. Normally there is in hypocephalus a figure in a boat with and insect. Do a google search British museum hypocephalus and you will see what I mean.
Joseph Smith was right. The arrogant Egyptologists were wrong. I never lose the argument on this. Care to refute?
In the 1960s when the documents were discovered, the Church was excited and thought this was going to be a big win for Joseph Smith as a prophet. Things did not work out that way and apologists have been playing defense ever since trying to explain away why Joseph Smith blew it.
ha...semi joke but, is why they are very careful to not use the word sorry or make public apologies lol.
No they were not ...only scraps were found. Best study up.
@@henochparks Right back at ya!
@@henochparks you’ve studied up then? What are your credentials in this field so that we may have confirmation of your “studying up”?
@@W.A.J.J. Do you need a PHD in climatology to known which way the wind is blowing?Have you read Dr. Aziz Atiyah's reports on the discovery of the scraps of the papyrus he discovered in the New York Metropolitan Museum? Nope Have you the original papyrus of facsimile numbers 2 or 3? Nope . Does anyone have the 20 plus feet of the scroll the Book of Abraham was on? Nope. Have papyri with the same scene from the Book of Abraham oon it mentions Abraham? Yep. Is there other Books of Abraham which uses the Egyptian Book of the Dead to tell an event in the life of Abraham? Yep the Testament of Abraham does. Is there other text of Abraham written as the same time and the same place as the LDS Book of Abraham? Yep. The Torah was written in Egypt at the same time and the same place. Etc. Humm best study up.
Fantastic. I love how you're taking a head on approach to some of the common criticisms. Very interesting and exciting stuff.
How about he spent 7 years MAKING IT ALL UP????
Joseph was translating the origins of the traditions, not the facsimiles themselves.
That's not what he said. Who should I believe? You or Joseph Smith?
That's simply not true.
You obviously haven't read the descriptions of the facsimiles that Joseph made that are in the cannon. He points to, or numbers egyptian language characters and gives their translations. He was 100% wrong in his translations of the egyptian language. Curious how this video and it's creators don't come anywhere near addressing this fact.
notice how the BoA opens with “written by his [Abraham's] own hand, upon papyrus.” 😂😂
That sounds similar to Paul Gregersens videos. Paul clearly debunks the anti-Mormon and Egyptologist cult
David aways has a good presentation.
You keep using the term “Jews” in discussing the Egyptian Abraham papyri. There were no Jews in his day. Indeed, Abraham was the first Jew (or Hebrew), if you will.
The Church sure wishes the Angel Moroni had taken these manuscripts to heaven with the plates.
🙂
What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologists?
@@richardholmes5676 The same as Hugh Nibley's interpretation.
@@protochris Which is?
@@richardholmes5676 The esoteric interpretation.
The concepts presented throughout this video are total smoke and mirrors. This is so far crossing the line beyond apologetics and into deception. You should be ashamed of yourself.
My gosh Jason, I think your whole Evangelical Sunday school class is here. We have more than the usual “truth spoken in love.” I have an idea: rather than merely posting a cheap shot, give us some information to talk about. Let’s discuss your fuss. The usual ‘Christian’ hate spate is getting old.
Well done as always. Please keep it up!
Behold, thus, through the rod of nature, saith the Lord: "I would that ye should know that the Book of Abraham was intended to be a comic book."
Yes, this is a good example of mental gymnastics and the use of prestige jargon in a failed attempt to justify the misinterpretation Smith made, concerning the information on the Facsimiles contained in the Book of Abraham.
There is strong, valid rational to explain why Smith failed to accurately interpret the Facsimiles. Smith simply could not read Egyptian hieroglyphics. There is a strong probability that Smith just made up his interpretation, and there was no one available to scholarly contest his interpretation at that time, in that locality. So he go away with it during his lifetime.
Today, scholarship has dismissed Smith's interpretation of the Facsimiles, and the only people who accept that supposition are supporters of the LDS Church.
Be Well,
DZ
It's more than a strong probability. It's a 100% certainty that Smith just made up his story.
Dear@@randyjordan5521 ,
I probably would agree with you if pressed on that point. However. I tend to shy away from absolute statements. I would confidently say 99.99% certain Smith is the creator of the Book of Mormon, but he could have had help, and perhaps the help was not aware they were helping create the text.
I would also say I believe Smith was the creator of the Book of Mormon beyond any reasonable shadow of a doubt; which means any doubts are unreasonable doubts.
In the early 1980s, I took a photocopy of the facsimiles from the Book of Abraham to my Egyptian archaeology professor, (Austrian Egyptologist Dr. Rienhold Englemeyer) and asked him to translate the facsimiles for me.
I didn't get it past him. He looked at facsimiles and asked me if I was a member of the LDS Church. I said no, and he told me that these came out of the Book of Abraham, which Mormons believe to be Scripture. He told me that they do not mean what Smith said they meant and he translated the meaning of each glyph for me. He told me that when Smith wrote this interpretation, it is clear that he had no idea what it meant, and apparently just made up a meaning to fit his religion and fooled many gullible people. He regarded Smith as a religious con-man.
Be Well,
DZ
@@Silverheart1956 It's cool that you were able to get a qualified Egyptologist to tell you the real meaning of the documents so long ago. It took me until the late '90s to begin studying them and to realize that Joseph Smith's "interpretations" did not match those of professionals in the field.
I "got a clue" when I read a 1955 book my mother had, titled "The Story of the Pearl of Great Price," by BYU scholar James R. Clark. He noted that after Joseph Smith's death, the fragments and mummies were eventually sold to the St.
Louis Museum.
In 1859, that museum published a catalog which included a description of the
artifacts. That those artifacts were the ones which JS possessed is
irrefutable, as a reading of the catalog entry proves.
A professor Gustavus Seyffarth, who was apparently familiar with Egyptology as
it could be interpreted to that time in history, gave his interpretation of
the
fragments thus, as published in the 1859 catalog:
"These mummies were obtained in the catacombs of Egypt... forwarded to New
York...purchased in the year 1835, by Joe Smith, the Mormon prophet, on
account
of the writings found in the chest of one of them, and which he pretended to
translate, as stating them to belong to the family of the Pharoahs---but,
according to Prof. Seyffarth, the papyrus roll is not a record, but an
invocation to the deity Osirus, in which occurs the name of the person
(Horus),
and a picture of the attendant spirits, introducing the dead to the judge,
Osirus."
So, scholars knew that Joseph Smith's interpretations were completely bogus as early as 1859. But here we are a century and a half later, and Mormon apologists are still defending an obvious fraud.
Dear@@randyjordan5521 ,
I had heard that Dr. Englemeyer was a prominent Egyptologist but I didn't know how what he had done until well after his death. I found that he was an associate of fellow Austrian Egyptologist Manfred Bietak who was famous for his 70 seasons of excavations of Tell-el-Daba (Avaris), where the Hebrews were thought to have lived along with the Hyksos.
Dr. Englemeyer was critical of J. Smith. He said the only identifiable site in America associated with the Book of Mormon was the Hill Cumorah in New York. He told me if the Mormon Church wanted to provide some objective evidence for their claims, they should excavate that hill because they claim there was a great war there and there would surely be plenty of evidence left for such a war in that location. However, He remarked they never would do that, because it is so much of a risk for them. He said if they did I am very certain they would find nothing there, to support a great war ever occurred there. So if they excavate, that would prove that what Smith said was wrong. How could they have an unreliable prophet as the head of their church ? I think he would have taken the job of conducting and excavation there if he had the rights to publish a book about his findings.
He did once tell me that though he does not accept the miraculous portions of the Biblical documents, he said of the Historical parts, "It tells us where to dig"". That is not a common attitude of skeptics today. He tried to be intellectually honest and thought that philosophical atheism was not an intellectually feasible position to hold.
Though he told me he would consider himself an agnostic, he was never critical of my Christian beliefs and respected my Christian World view. I considered him a friend and had a sad moment when I heard of his death. He had my respect.
Be Well,
DZ
@@Silverheart1956 LOL. That hill was formerly called "Gold Bible hill" because Joseph Smith and his band of treasure-seekers dug holes all over it in the 1820s. Joseph Smith called it "Cumorah" in his Book of Mormon. There is nothing about the hill or the area around it that lends any credence to the authenticity of the Book of Mormon.
Appreciate your time.
Gee... an Egyptologist? Please, give me a break.
He has a Ph.D. from Yale in Egyptology and a Master's from Berkeley in Near Eastern Studies. Even if you don't agree with his interpretations or religion, he is an Egyptologist.
The arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith were debunked due to false assumptions on translational understanding.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8iidebunked by youtuber paul gregerson right? 😂
@@mikkifrompreston4396Obviously Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith?
@@RichardHolmes-ll8iiits not
Test
Test verified.
It makes sense for someone to defend their personal belief in order to protect their personal dignity but it's pretty ridiculous for someone to defend not just their personal security but also their personal delusion.
People of any kind of theology should always find ways to challenge themselves so they can actually prove to non sayers that they believe in something because they went through hell and to back (symbolically, not literally) and then specifically made a life changing decision based on that experience of hell.
Members of monotheistic cults haven't done anything that is remotely like that, instead they just make assumptions and create a hypothesis based on those assumptions.
This kind of issue isn't even unique to Mormonism or Christianity, every person of whatever theology can use these kinds of fallacies.
Ant-Theists who dismiss religions and mythologies as deliberate hoaxes (as opposed to exaggerated events) are one example.
They believe that the supernatural is fake no matter and refuse to listen to arguments that prove it's legitimacy in any kind of realistic way.
makes sense absolutely, until...the supernatural part, which mormons are founded on essentially. i dont get the paradox here, like christianity etc is supernatural essentially but you endorse its relevance as real?
@@chinmeysway The whole supernatural part is a grey area and a matter of personal perspective.
I personally believe that most people misunderstand the idea of something that is beyond understanding and or beyond comprehension.
The supernatural could mean anything that's either super or natural.
Whether it's actually a super power created by a deity (or a super particle created by an alien) is up to anyone's best guess.
Who knows, it could just be a scientific anomaly that someone misinterpreted in the past and just branded it as something that isn't of our reality.
You could not be more wrong.
This man used a Tosan's words instead of just one: HOAX.
If I pray about the Book of Abraham and obtain an erect phallus does that mean it's true?
It means you’re a necrophiliac. … ew.
Man, these Mormons go to great lengths to make their religion “seem “ true 😂.
My gosh cn, brother of stark snark, dog with dark bark: a spasm of sarcasm! Should the Latter-day Saints apologize for defending something worth defending? What you are hearing are quotes from Egyptologists with academic credentials. If the lore seems a bore, I don’t blame you. But taken all together, it makes a case hard to erase. But bear in mind that the proof of the truth of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints only comes from God as answer to sincere prayer. Give it a try, sly guy. God bless you; have peace.
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists, how do you respond?
Egyptian paganism. All that is.
A mass of sass here in Comments - anti-LDS sewage. That is why I do not tout _Scripture Central_ to friends. I don’t want them exposed to that scat. ⚠️
gIen danieIsen
" a mess 0f sass"
aIs0 kn0wn, in m0re c0nfident circIes, as dissent and rig0ur0us questi0ning
is it reaIIy that weak y0u have t0 pr0tect it ?
kinda gives the game away
y0u d0nt want debate as scrutiny exp0ses h0w infantiIe it is
what a iame ickIe sn0wfIake y0u are
This channel should be ashamed of itself, and anyone that believes this video needs to do more homework.
Ted, please explain your stain, give more of your lore. We’ll need more of your feces so that we can properly flush the toilet.
@@Glen.Danielsen 😂😂😂😂😂❤🎉
@@analynabuginfelicia194 Kumusta ka, sister Analyn! My wife is also a marvelous Pinay. Ingat, faithful one! 🇺🇸💛🇵🇭
I ike how the easiest and most plausable explanation of : he literally just made it up is not accepted but Mormons about to accept any of these ridiculous "explanations"
What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologists?
ALL of Mormonism comes from Ethiopian Jews. The Book of Mormon is the history of Ethiopian Jews. The Book of Abraham was written (or at least kept) by them. It is just an apocryphal account of Abraham that isn't totally consistent with the Bible. It has anachronisms in it that actually come from Islam and an "Ibraham" that immediately preceded Muhammad.
The Book of Abraham and the Book of Mormon were discovered at the same time, either in Ethiopia or Egypt. Joseph Smith had it all from the beginning. He used the opportunity of the discovery of the papyri to publish what he already had. He almost did it again with the Kinderhook plates.
He attributed the history of Ethiopia to America. In 600 BC the 'New Promise Land" and the "New Jerusalem" was to be in Ethiopia according to Ethiopian Jews. These are the Jews that fled to Ethiopia in 600 BC. This is where Lehi went. Lehi is an Ethiopian Jew. The Nephites are Ethiopian Jews.
The Land South is Africa and the Narrow Neck of Land is The Isthmus of Suez.
Lehi was commanded to go to the Garden of Eden in the Tree of Life Vision. This is in Ethiopia according to Genesis 2:13. This is the belief of Ethiopian Jews.
If The Book of Mormon is about East African Jews, why would having dark skin be considered a curse?
How could Joseph Smith get the Book of Mormon if it was in Ethiopia? Hebrew never left America; he never could.
My theory is that everything Joseph Smith published was discovered in Ethiopia by James Bruce in 1760's.
Bruce returned to Europe with hundreds of manuscripts he copied from Ethiopian Temples.
After he translated and published the Book of Enoch and the Kebra Nagast, the publics desire for these "apocryphal" accounts of religion from Ethiopia turned sour. Many believed reading what Ethiopians believed about Christ would be sacrilegious and non-Biblical.
The Book of Mormon was never translated and never published before Bruce died. At that point it fell into the hands of the professors and scholars he associated with.
It obviously made it's way to America, specifically Dartmouth. I believe it was at Dartmouth that the Book of Mormon was translated into English.
It was at Dartmouth that the agenda was devised to use the Book of Mormon as a parable for the Native American Indians.
The history of Ethiopia was attributed to America. Once upon a time Ethiopia was the New Promise Land, now it is America.
America wasn't even discovered when the Nephites were living in Ethiopia and writing the Book of Mormon.
The reason Dartmouth was founded and moved to New Hampshire was to baptize the Native American Indian. The Dartmouth Seal is two Native American Indians coming to the school holding an open Bible.
Joseph Smith Jr. had a First Cousin Thrice Removed who was a professor at Dartmouth. His name is Professor John Smith. It is now known that he was lecturing on Mormonism before the Book of Mormon was published.
His lectures have been made public and recently a book made 20 points of comparison between his lectures on religion and the future Mormonism that his relative would found.
When Joseph Smith Jr. founded Mormonism and claimed he was going on a mission to baptize the Native America Indians, he was doing the work of Dartmouth with one big difference. He claimed the Book of Mormon was found in America and was written in Ancient America.
It's not, it never was. It was written in Ethiopia by Ethiopian Jews.
@@DavidPeel-fo9xv
@@redfightblue There’s no evidence that Joseph got the Book of Mormon from his third cousin. The Book of Mormon isn’t the African Bible, and if it was, one would think that there would be more widespread evidence pertaining to the origin of the Book of Mormon, especially around Ethiopia, since the Old World has been combed over by archaeologists compared to little archaeology in the Nee World (which could be used as an explanation as to why evidence for the Book of Mormon in the Americas hasn’t turned up until recently). To put it simply, your narrative is ludicrous at best.
You don't know anything about Ethiopian Jews. ALL the evidence is in Ethiopia. There's mountains of it. Nobody denies Jews were in Ethiopia in 600 BC. They make History Channel shows about it.
Also, Ethiopia fits the geography perfectly. It fits the religion, culture and traditions. Its a perfect match. It's so perfect it's unbelievable.
On the other hand you have ZERO evidence in America and you're explanation appears to be that it was all destroyed or just not found yet.
With all due respect, THAT is Ludacris.
You don't know enough about the Book of Mormon or the history of Joseph Smith and the founding of Mormonism. You need to continue your journey.
The Bible says Ethiopia is the Garden of Eden (Gen 2:13) and that's where Lehi was commanded to go (1 Nephi 1:8).
Jeremiah 44 and Helaman 3 both describe Egypt as "Desolation" where Jews will be destroyed. This is what happened to the Nephites. They were destroyed in Egypt. Helaman 3 describes their migration North to Egypt. They left Ethiopia.
Have you read the Book of Enoch? Have you read the Kebra Nagast? These books are Ethiopian and so is the Book of Mormon.
The notion that the Native American Indian is a "Lost Tribe" was invented in early frontier America. It's not based on evidence. It was a religious conclusion that answered the very difficult question of their origin. We now know this is totally false.
The decision was made to publish the history of Jews in Ethiopia and claim it was about America. This is what Joseph Smith did.
Most likely edits were made to conceal the Ethiopian origin. But those edits are not enough. More than enough "Easter Eggs" were left behind to conclude that the Book of Mormon is Ethiopian. You just don't see them because you don't know Ethiopia and you don't know the Bible.
The most egregious errors are those that were thought to be true in Joseph Smiths day but we now know are false like horses and steel. How can you continue to defend this?
The Book of Mormon was written in the Old World. Lehi circumnavigated Africa in 600 BC and remained in the Old World. The Geography in Herodotus Book 4, Chapter 40-42 is identical to Alma 22:32. They both describe Africa.
@@DavidPeel-fo9xv
it holds up! as good as astrology does. free to instill any meaning that confirmation bias has worked its way into.
Bro- you’re embarrassing
This is the absolute best explanation in support of Joseph smith's ability to translate the book of Abraham.
It helped me realize that if this is the best defense of Joseph Smith still proves he was a fraud and a con man.
I really wanted videos like this to prove the church true.
But trying to make an argument about Joseph bring right about the book of Abraham is about as convincing as making an argument that a baby scribbling with a crayon is really teaching us advanced physics.
This literally proves Joseph Smith was wrong on 99.9% of the translation. You have to just accept like many lds members that Joseph was making it up, but at least there are some good things about the church to still support. If you want to bow your head and say yes, then that's totally great and absolutely your choice, but to claim it's the one and only true church is proven false time and time again.
Lol, no.
It's the only church that even claims to be like the church in 1 Corinthians 12:28!
@@robbhays8077Lol, yes.
@@robbhays8077 lol yes
You literally can't claim its false because you don't have the original papyri.
Hahahahahahah 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Wake up
You should be ashamed of yourself.
I: Rather than spit spite, at least explain in the main why you need to shame someone, for heaven’s sake. Have something to give.
The bible gives us an easy test to tell if a prophet is true--- that being, if a prophet gets at most ONE THING wrong... ONE prophacy etc -- then that person is a false prophet... and Joseph has errored several times.
The bible doesn't say that. You are a false prophet
Every prophet is human; only One being is perfect.