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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Tom Vasel, Zee Garcia, and Sam Healey give their final, spoiler-free review for SeaFall from Plaid Hat Games.
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Sam always said he'd see us on the flip side. And there he is.
Watching all 4 Seafall videos was like watching a found footage horror movie. You start with a group of friends recording themselves in front of a camera, all excited to be exploring some new mystery. Then as the videos go on they become confused, concerned, and increasingly worried until finally by the end everyone is mad and yelling.
Haha
Sam's face throughout the video is the best possible review of this game. He seemed bored to even just talk about the game!
Absolutely brutal. Thanks for the due diligence and honesty guys. What a shame.
This, right here, is the problem with the internet. If a reviewer comes and says they love the game, then people say this reviewer is getting paid to say it. For most people, they are only honest when they are crushing a game, moive or whatever. This is what drives the "hate cutlure" out there.
Not saying that this is your case, Matthew, don't get me wrong. I don't know you and I have never read any comment you made before, I just read this one and that "honesty" part activated this small runt that I decided to write here now.
Well, I also thank them for their honesty. Always, in every video.
The Johnny is on the Table absolutely. I set high store in their opinions and always trust them to be honest.
I meant more that it's got to be tough (emotionally) to take one of the most anticipated games of the year, from a beloved designer who spent years of his life on it, and one of the most respected publishers, and be that brutally (not unfairly) honest about why it just doesn't work.
I'd do the same, and I knew that they would be aboveboard and honest, but I'd still feel really bad for everyone who worked on it while doing it, you know? A lot of blood, sweat & tears went into Seafall, I'm sure. Such a shame the result doesn't work.
The Johnny is on the Table that said, I also don't understand the (immature IMHO) shrill accusations of reviewers being paid off on the internet. I may be weird since I review board games as a (newbie) podcaster myself as well as assessing 500+ food products a year professionally.
My reaction when I disagree with a review, positive or negative, is to assume differing tastes. Or sometimes, I have to admit, bad taste.
The Johnny is on the Table I happen to emphatically disagree with them (and others) on Time Stories being amazing (or even good), for example. I'm with Shut Up & Sit Down on that one. But I've never suspected/accused any reviewer of being paid off.
Those who would would do well to learn about Occam's Razor, IMHO. Which is more likely - a conspiracy, or a differing opinion?
It's a pretty sturdy box, I have it holding up one leg of my game table so that we can play games that will likely be more fun.
I'm playing through this now as part of a 5-person group. Resources aren't as much of an issue since more exploring is happening meaning more resource "sources" exist. The beginning of the campaign brought up some rules issues that are not laid out well in the rulebook. We've since figured everything out with some forum searching. The game time sounds the same as the experience described above. Downtime can absolutely be long, but we're generally interested in each other's turns. We also play Friday nights so we're not as concerned with the game length overall. All that to say we've still loved the experiences, stories being told, mechanisms, wars, and hate we've developed. Not a perfect game, but the interpersonal aspect and exploration of this game keeps us coming back for more. We've played 6 games as well and only opened about half the spoiler stuff. We intend on finishing the campaign at this time. Not a game for everyone, but well worth a look at!
Thanks for the honest, if disappointing, review.
Edit: To clarify, I'm disappointed in the game, not the review.
My group loves it. Different strokes...
Was that supposed to be a pun?
I must say... Zee, you are awesome at articulating your opinions about the game, regardless of good or bad.
I wish I made games for your taste too ;)
I really think that Legacy games should be ripe for review after just a few plays. Even if it may become awesome after 10 hour investment, most players will not want those slog hours. And SeaFall didn't become great at 21 hours either.
I highly recommend future reviews of Legacy go out after just 2-3 plays. Majority of gamers want a game to be at least good even the early beginning.
My girlfriend and I are enjoying it through 4 or 5 games. We also haven't seen a lot of the complaints they have. Perhaps they will come up for us.
Sam looks mighty grumpy. This did not float his boat...
yeah, and he was the most hopeful at the first review.
I'd be in his shoes if a game that was hyped to the moon and back turns out to be a huge let down.
After watching the review I no longer feel bad that I wasn't able to score a copy at this years GenCon.
I feel you, Kelly.
I was hesitant to buy a copy at SPIEL and felt almost reliefed when it was out of stock after I decided to get it afterall. Looks like I've dodged a bullet there.
There are still quite a few positive reviews though. I think i'll wait a couple months before re-evaluating.
I think it might not be only because of the game, but because Zee took his seat :)
With regards to benefits effecting game play for players from one game to the next, it seems like co-op games are the best fit for the "Legacy" treatment. My vote: Legendary Marvel: Legacy!
That game needs a 2.0 anyway...
Anyone else got annoyed by the swapped position betwen Zee and Sam?
Yep. This is about as bad as Tom having a game on his shelf upside down or backwards.
So not at all?
I'm still reeling from it.
not sure I would've noticed
xxlildevilxx29 Drives me crazy
I'm curious if you guys are planning on doing a similar group runthrough / review of Gloomhaven when it comes out.
I really appreciate your honest review. I don't like the idea of legacy games but thought I should try one before I knock them and there's a dozen copies of this reduced to clear at my local games store.
I thought this might a cheap opportunity to give them a go and I'm glad you have done this honest review and I can save my money for another, better game.
So I guess I just wanted to say thank you. This just makes me trust you guys even more.
This was like a watching you guys go to a Wake. Poor Sam looks like he's been forced to be here or go into time out... THANKFULLY there's many many many other great games for us all to play!
Thanks as always guys!
My OCD wouldn't let me ignore the fact that Colosseum is on the shelf in a different direction than all of the other games >.
Sad to hear, but will play it anyway as a friend bought it and who knows maybe we will enjoy it more... :)
I really didn't think that Sam and Zee swapping seats would spin me out so much haha! Great video as always, gents.
Interesting. We're enjoying our play through pretty well so far.
Man, people seem to have option paralysis. I keep hearing people saying it takes 3 hours and to not play more than 4. Ive been playing this with 5 players and it tends to only go an hour and a half for my group.
This reminds me of the time I bought Xenosaga Chronicles after reading tons of glowing reviews declaring it the 2nd coming. I played for a little over one hour and was so bored out of my mind I had to stop. I asked people online what the heck game they were playing because mine was a painful snoozefest. "Yeah it starts out slow, but you've got to stick with it because it gets AMAZING after 30 hours!"
screw--->that
I can't say that SeaFall knocks it out of the park like Pandemic: Legacy did, but after the prologue and four full games, I am thoroughly enjoying it. My main complaint is that not a lot carries over from game to game with regard to upgrading your ships and province. But as for the complaint that you are being forced into one strategy, I just don't see that happening. We have one player who raids constantly, two others who are playing a balanced economic game, and I have recently shifted to a speedy evasion and exploration strategy.
TheJohnnyonthespot1 I found Pandemic Legacy somewhat bland, so I'd probably hate this.
Despite the review I am still going to give this a go. I wonder if it is possible to have a "game save" developed for this to allow you to break one round into more than one session, kind of like Time Stories.
Six games in and I am still completely enthralled.
I was asked to be in a playtest group for this game, I bailed after the 4th or 5th session. I couldn't play it any more, it was just not enjoyable for me at all. Not surprised at this review, and they hit on a lot of the points I had at the time.
At 25:10, It seems like that's like the second or third hint I've seen within the space of a few videos that Sam's favorite game, TI3, has been dethroned. I love the mystery! I'm guessing Blood Rage did it! I love Blood Rage, might just be a worthy successor, if only because it's an awesome game packed into a shorter amount of time.
I'm curious - what does Jason (Every Game is Awesome) Levine think of this game, as I respect his opinion too. Just curious...
Sam looks mad.
I've got a question about your spoiler review, does it go to the very end or does it only get to basically most boxes open? We had all but one box open by game 5. And we've got a good fair thought after 8 games of problems this board game has. Basically exploration vs raid vs economy vs colony vs whatnot balance is not ideal.
Btw, my group thinks it'd be better if milestones gave no points, they only give the bonuses, and points would be from other things.
We also house ruled a few things to improve balance. Like anyone that's less than half the points with the leader also gets bonuses. Or that exploration glory is half than what they claim in the game rules.
I'm curious, is there a way to streamline the rules and tighten up the game play an dome out with a seafall 2? do you think these guys would be willing to try it?
Thank's for review. You save my money. ;)
And they still managed to do spoilers, although not about SeaFall :D
How has Seafall done? Is it performing well for Plaid Hat?
I feel bad that you guys did not enjoy this game. My group is a few games in and we are loving it. We find the story interesting and have all created backstories for our leaders. The theme is really hitting with us and we cannot wait to see what else Seafall has in store for us.
That's great! We hope you really have a fantastic time!
Curious, you still think it's great after a few months? Cause my group enjoys it, but we definitely have serious issues with a lot of the balance. Exploration is too strong and never really hindered by any game event like the other options to play are hindered (and those other options aren't all that strong)
I really enjoyed this longer format for such an industry important game. Wouldn't want to see it for everything, it for those titan games - yes please.
Noooo switching seats Sam and Zee. My OCD is in overdrive.
Just watch it in a mirror 😉👍🏻
I would also like to play 21 hours of my favorite game of all time over Seafall :)
It's certainly more hilarious and entertaining footage when the table is disgusted!
Did Sam want to be there or was he forced ?
Why didn't they just make Merchants & Marauders Legacy with storytelling elements per "path" taken that eventually flow together Telltale-wise readying for a next season.
Also weird they took the "we're evil colonisers" in a world where certain historic facts in popular culture are forced to be changed... or maybe that does makes "sense".
I missed out on pre-ordering this thing and I was sad, but after I've heard all the negative buzz on it, I'm not so disappointed anymore. Seems like I dodged a bullet.
I'd still like to play it at some point, but not buying it at full price was definitely good. Already, the game is $32 just over a year after it was published, so I can likely pick it up for a bargain price just to see what it has to offer at some point.
It's a shame, because my friends and I loved Pandemic Legacy like many others and were obviously excited for this. However, there are lots more games coming out/already out that are playing around with legacy mechanics, so I have no doubt that there will be plenty more of those games to scratch some itches.
Thanks for sticking it out as long as you did, guys.
I was trying to figure out why it was so cheap in Amazon, now I know why.
Sam's favorite game = Blood Rage confirmed?
21 hours is about the time investment you put in Pandemic Legacy. And you seemed much happier at the end of that.
EVERYTHING IS BACKWARD!!!!! I AM SO CONFUSED!!!!!
The dice endeavor mechanic was mediocre. I kind of wish that it utilized the exploding dice concept (like Arcadia Quest)...it might have added some excitement to the dice rolling.
Wow! This is definitely disappointing to hear. I was looking forward to this one, and I know my friend bought it, so we are likely to start playing it anytime soon now. I hope I enjoy it more than the DT gang did, but it sure sounds like their reasons are sound.
But... after 25 minutes are nonstop criticism, you still gave the game a 5! Huh?? Given that 90% of your comments are negative, shouldn't this be a "1" or "2" ??
Sounds like this game needs a 2nd edition.
Some how i feel that Dice Tower wouldn't like to review legacy games all the time. It's a painful task to not be able to talk freely.
Oh my Knock Knock -----Hard Pass!!!
"Shut up you two", says Sam. Ha ha ha!
Wow. Totally brutal. They didn't even finish! Just got up and said "enough is enough". But considering the reviews are either "It's great!" or "It sucks!" is telling. The comments regarding being forced down a given path may be the very thing that irritates some players, and I can see why. You seem to have to be an ass and that is probably what grates.
I'm still trying this next week with our hard core group. I'll see how we make out. I remain hopeful considering various other reviews claiming it's like a Legacy version of Merchants & Marauders, one of our favourite games. We'll see.
*told in a calm matter of fact voice*
Well, the lords and ladies that were in control back then were NOT heroes. They were, almost everyone , a***holes. Look at Pizarro, was he a nice guy? They felt that they belonged to a higher class or race or God. They didn't have the notion that the natives were equal. They were at best to be educated to be good citizens, - when they had forsaken their savage backgrounds.
I think that this game has really taken upon itself to educate the gaming community that colonialism is BAD. And is really is. I'm from a country that had colonies, and I can see with my own eyes that the colonies my country had has problems that stems from colonialism.
And that's the historian in me talking. You wouldn't hear the rest of me yelling. I'm being reasonably matter of fact here, and that's what, in my opinion, historians should be.
Your characters are ruthless... because your characters are pirates. Right?
They look so serious. Seafall must be a total drag.
PHG has yet to release a updated FAQ for Ashes spite them saying numerous times that "its coming." Why would PHG provide a FAQ for this game?
Davieu is the Art Garfunkel of game design. That is not a true statement, but I wanted to post it anyway, for self aggrandizement. I also spelt his name wrong, and used the incorrect conjugation of spelled. this tweet is longer than it should be. BERNIE 2017.
Sounds like a case of getting your orange juice in my glass of milk - I like story driven dice chuckers, I like heavy economic Euros, and while I like some hybrids... I'm not sure I want a story driven heavy economic euro dice chucker. Also sounds like you found it too scripted compared to what it felt like it was selling itself as. Plus a load of pacing issues, aside the legacy issues, from what you guys are saying.
gotta say guys... after watchin all of the free spoiler reviews... i think your expectations of the game got the better of you...
the game is indeed based on the luck of the dice or luck of the draw.... and yes- you choose a number and read...
but its a legacy game... and a light one too...
so no need to think about this as a complex heavy euro game in order to enjoy it? because i've been waiting till now to get it... and im sorry i did... all of those reviews made me scared of this game i waited for so long- and when i did bought it and opened it up- i discovered a new expiriance in the game play..
naming thing? sticking up stickers, reading those text...? whats so wrong with that?
btw- you still do have control over your turn.. the actions are simple and clear, just pick a strategy- and try as best you can to execute it well- with the luck factor taking under considiration...
i think you were too harsh with this game...
Thanks for the honest review guys, so sad this game was a letdown, will try to get it later if it gets cheap.
Why not just come out and say Blood Rage is your favorite game, Sam? Why bother with pretending?
This review had to have been caused by Tom wanting to rage quit his last game. Sam and Zee are already off the bandwagon, and I feel like one bad game caused Tom to flip-flop on his opinion.
Sam seems a little clueless. I'm not sure you can accurately talk about colonialism without bashing it. History is terrible thing to ignore.
Sam has an issue with them being critical of colonialism? Seems like he was finding things to be mad at because that's his trope.
This sounds like a dud. Really unfortunate. :/
Could the characters and choices being awful be intentional? Colonialism was a pretty awful ideology and many of the people from that era were pretty awful as well.
It might not make for an enjoyable experience but part of me has to respect Daviau for not glorifying the ills of colonialism.
That being said, I probably won't be checking this one out. It's a shame too because Pandemic Legacy is my favorite game ever.
Robert Niven Sure, I bet that was the point. But the game was never really presented as being populated by antiheroes.
Robert Niven so there's no assumption that the players are looking to play the bad guys - thus you're taking agency & character development choices away from them by forcing them down a narrow path to choose between bad & worse.
Matthew Johnson That's totally fair. Like I said, I don't personally plan on playing the game, despite having an appreciation for the "pull-no-punches" way it presents colonialism.
A game is probably not the best place to explore this sort of concept. Or rather, a portion of a game isn't. It doesn't sound like the theme applies to much else outside of the story book in the game. If every aspect of the game informed this theme it might've ended up a more cohesive piece of art. As it is, this idea seems like just one more thing haphazardly tossed into the "soup" as Zee put it.
Check out the RPG "Dog eat Dog" for a game that intelligently and respectfully introduces colonialism in such a way that players are forced to confront the evils of produces through meaningful reflection and realization of their own selfishness. SUSD did an excellent review on this a while ago. :)
Caden Laptad I'll keep that in mind! Thanks!
I am so disappointed I had to pay so much for this game...at least it isn't opened yet.
Apocrypha2012 better get it on ebay now.
Sounds completely overhyped. For shame Plaid Hat. Thank you Dice Tower.
The lack of character development is kind of what is turning me off. Plus I don't like the idea that the story kind of forces you to be a douchebag, as you say, it would be good to have a choice.
Seafall? Sounds more like Seafail.
I like watching you guys, but it feels like there was some level of group think in this situation....including talking in the terms of we and us. My local game club is thoroughly enjoying the experience.
That's great! We hope you have an amazing time!