BMW N47 TIMING CHAIN RATTLE NOISE
Вставка
- Опубліковано 13 лют 2024
- Is the timing chain on my N47 powered BMW 318D about to snap?
Donate To The Channel Via Paypal HERE: bit.ly/3u2yEMz
Join Patreon HERE: / georgeausters
The following links are affiliate links that the channel recieves commission for
Tools I Use!
Topdon Scan Tool: amzn.to/41esgCk
BMW Jacket: ebay.us/ZpdbIM
Nitrile Gloves: ebay.us/LehsUZ
Sealey Cordless Ratchet Kit: amzn.to/3bgAsKn
Small Dewalt Impact Wrench: amzn.to/2T4igdi
Big Dewalt Impact Wrench: amzn.to/39NOrEu
Dewalt 5ah Battery: amzn.to/39tRRhL
Dewalt Battery Charger: amzn.to/3dkwlxb
Impact Socket Set: amzn.to/3a8zcpQ
Torx Socket Set: amzn.to/32EbnDV
Female Torx Socket Set: amzn.to/2PzAZMQ
Digital Torque Wrench: amzn.to/3dlCP37
Torque Wrench: amzn.to/2VF0YpI
Oil Drain Pan: amzn.to/3dm00pJ
Rhino Ramps: amzn.to/3zKGiy7
Jack Stands: amzn.to/3pTSKs5
Oil Transfer Pump: amzn.to/3UAYTqX
Smoke Vacuum Leak Tester: amzn.to/3rVN9lG
ISTA D / BMW Coding Kit: ebay.us/Bndqwa
➢ Subscribe For Regular Videos ➢ goo.gl/x0Juyl
➢ Instagram: / georgeausters
➢ Facebook: / georgeausterspage
➢ Email: GeorgeAustersBusiness@gmail.com
➢Amazon Prime Free 30 Day Trial: amzn.to/2v6kVe5
➢Best Place For Car Parts: amzn.to/3DZykGe - Авто та транспорт
![BAD vs GOOD TIMING CHAIN CHECK! [BMW N47 Timing Chain Noise and PicoScope 2204A] | Mechanic Mindset](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gkA2oyf6sAc/mqdefault.jpg)
I’d love to see a video of you replacing the timing chain. Your video quality has gotten a lot better since the old timing chain series, I think you could add a lot more value to these new ones.
Hi George,
I have been working in r&d on those engines (not bmw but buyer of those engine I will not mention...).
Lot of times, those chains are elongated on engines doing lot of idling (low oil pressure and lot of chain tensioner oscillations. Actually the core issue with this engine is a résonnance in the oil circuit making the chain tensioner oscillates crazy and wear the chain). But the main factor is late oil change. If your car had oil changes past 20000km, the chain starts to wear very quickly (like 20 times faster than fresh oil).
Anyway, an elongated chain makes more noise the first 2 seconds after cold start (no oil pressure in chain tensioner).
When the chain elongates (1.6%), there are 2 scenarios: chain tensioner gets to maximum and stops there, your chain jump on the sprocket, the piston hits the valve and usually the chain breaks and gets crushed by the sprocket... Not good...
2nd scénario, is the chain tensioner breaks and thus is able to continue to push on the chain and you can run like this a long time, at 2 to 3 % of chain elongation, the chain jump on the sprocket , the piston hit the valve, and the chain goes back into its position. This usually result in a noticable boom in the engine. I've seen engines doing many miles like this. What usually happens is the sprockets wear with lots of jumps and the phenomenon amplifies. The rocker arms fails and the engine lose one valve, then 2 etc... You can have intake or exhaust valve hitting the piston as the chain can also jump forward (I know hard to believed , I had to get it on camera for people to believe it ! )
What you can do is to put your engine at top dead center, and remove your chain tensioner. If it is broken, meaning you can pull on the piston and remove it, it means your chain is so long you are already at stage 2. So you should change the chain and the camshaft sprocket.
If not broken I think you can check where the tensioner is working, it will give you an idea of the chain elongation.
Last thing is that is you are at a point where you have a lot of chain jumps, your piston will be marked with the valve, so you could see that with an endoscope.
Hope this help, thanks for your videos, very helpful on my n52 ! Don't forget to specify tightening torque when you know them ;)
Cheers.
It's at least 2000$ to change timing chain on N47 because you need to take out engine
Hi George, one of the clips on the cable ducting has broken and is rattling on the engine cover which would be some of the initial noise.
Also there is meant to be an acoustic barrier behind the engine, it could be that the barrier wasn't replaced or fell apart which is why it may be noisier that previously.
Take the valve cover off and try to get a look at the timing chain that way, with an inspection camera you should be able to see the whole lot.
I removed the engine and replaced the timing chain on my E90 n47 a few years ago with the help of your videos after the timing chain guides broke, no damage to the valves or anything else, the car is still running perfectly 3 years on!
I'm so glad you made this video. It's helped me realise it's not my chain but my hydraulic valve lifters being abit bunged up. So forte top end cleaner and it should be all good :)
A friend of mine has a MG ZTT CDT rover 75 estate 136bhp. He fitted a solid flywheel along with a clutch with springs about 4 years ago and he tows a heavy trailer with it. The car is absolutely fine but must be driven correctly no labouring. I think DMFs are good at concealing bad driving. Solid flywheel highly recomnended.
Yeah, theres some sound but it could be other things. Theres a tester for the upper chain which is a good indicator of the condition of the timing set
I think that the engine is out of phase (crankshaft-camshaft coleration) and with the new timing chain kit instalation and properly putting it would probably solve the loud engine noise, at least in my experience with these N47 engines, i have done about 30 timing chain replacements.
My top timing chain broke at 240000km, I put a new one in from above with the engine still in the car, and no issues with the valves 🎉
It broke when the engine was idling😅
I've been driving it for 85000km with no issues since I changed it
🎉
It sounded bad every time when i cold started the car at fist so I changed the tensioner, and it became quiet for a time period,
But after a couple of weeks started to sound at cold start again, and the just broke one day😮
Thanks for all the great instruction videos on how to Diy!
God bless you! ❤
Thats a very lucky scenario. But the fuel pump chain also streches and should be replaces and so do the plastic skids
@daviddorado5632 Yes indeed, but to do that on a x1 x-drive was quite a big job, so I just took my chances on this!
And the fuel pump chain is dipt in oil so it last twice the mileage i hope🫣?
Hi Roine, can you point me to a video where it is explained how to change only the top timing chain from above? Thanks
I don't know if there is such a video? I just tried my way forward, and tested different methods, until i successfully managed to fit the new chain, the hardest part was to get the new chain a round the pump gear, if your chain has not broken its a lot easier just connect the old and new chain together and rotate the engine (while stretching them)until the new chain is in place! @lucagrazioso416
My plastic clip together 😱 air intake pipes rattle like blazes... I've taped with pvc tape at the joins, which has helped a bit...
Definitely doing my tensioner next service, and then periodically. Can't hurt...
I have had 3 N47’s. Two 320d LCI and a 116d LCI. I had timing chain noise from two of them and next owners had the chains replaced. The chain noise that I remember doesn’t sound like yours, so my best guess is that your timing chains are ok.
Sound fine to me
Sounds fine, my 318d sounds exactly the same and has done since the chain was replaced 14k miles ago. Before replacing it there was a a definite "pedalling backwards on a bike" noise when revving and a pronounced regular metallic chut chut at idle. However, given the issues with the potential dishonesty from the previous owner it might be better to be safe than sorry.
Hi not sure if you know about this. Wear indicator for camshaft drive chain for BMW.Check first before pulling the engine out and good luck.👍
N52B30 in this chassis is top tier.
Love your videos if I was you , I probably pull the timing cover off and check the timing chain when you have the flywheel off . It’s just a few more bolts . Then make your decision. Good luck mate from USA
You could try changing the upper tensioner first. Not so expensive and just a bit fiddly. I changed mine before rattling. Just have a bit ”drag” sound which did not change after replacement. Newest revision tensioner was a bit longer and had a harder spring.
Hi George - I was warned against fitting a single mass conversion because of the risk of overloading the crankshaft...just a thought
i would say it could be the dual mass flywheel clacking .. i had similar on my n47 i thought it was a chain and turned out the dual mass lost a spring on its rotation and caused a rattle
I wouldn’t take the chance and drive it until get the chain replaced. That rattling and vibration can induce stress on all kind of other parts in the engine, cracks in places you wouldn’t expect. Vibration is transfered into bearings, seals, gaskets, mounts, everywhere. It can go as far as welding joints in the body frame. I work in engineering for a helicopter company and I can’t describe in words how distructive vibrations can be.
Hi George that definitely needs investigating, it is a loud rattle . Yes, i was lucky once with a 5 series when the belt snapped, no damage was sustained as it happened as I stared the car. The interesting thing about this the service history had been recorded that the belt had been changed at the prescribed time by the garage which was carrying out regular service on the car before i bought it.. This was the very first clutch change on a BMW i would undertake.. but I was 30 years younger and was excited about getting on my back. Surprise surprise the belt had not been changed as it was the original bmw belt. It was a lesson learnt.
That should say Belt change (not clutch).
This engine sounds like it’s had the balance shafts removed? Probably wrong but that is one loud N47 but one way to check if it’s been replaced kind of is checking the chain tensioner spanner size 27 is oem from factory nowadays everything else is 24mm even from bmw
I can hear the turbo is whistling slightly as well
I’d do the clutch to eliminate that potential noise - you never know.
I’d have to see how involved the timing chain swap is on that engine. I just completed the timing set on the Mini N14 engine everybody loves to hate. It took a while due to severe cold in my area but it’s done.
I would guess that it needs a change but I doubt it will snap given the computer locking it down over the clutch.
Sounds alright in my opinion probably not been done and obviously got abit of stretch.
Keep running it!
When mine went on my E91 2010 it had slight rattle on startup but only for a spilt second, I presumed it was time taken for oil to get up to the top end, after a split second it was fine, no noise no indication
@GeorgeAusters, i have just replaced the harmonic balance pulley on the crankshaft as mine was completely cracked all the way around, since iv had that done the engine is so so much smoother and less of a noise as the vibration of the engine has reduced, this makes sense as it plays an important part in balance of the cakshaft. Id investigate this znd do that before anything, honestly!!
It has been replaced already on this engine
I have the same engine and you definitely have some noise that I don’t. I do have the same squeaking though
Hi George. Not a fun job taking out the engine and replacing the timing chain, I would leave it for now do the oil change see if that helps, it did sound a bit rattely on the left side of the engine. Leave it for now if it goes, it goes. Mabe something to consider when the weather starts improving and the days are longer.
I'd say it could definitely do with a timing chain replacement kit , we have a 118d x1 xdrive and it snapped at 72000 miles ...... costly repair that was ....
Take a special tool if you got one and check if chain needs changing
My first thought is you need to hook up a decent scanner and gather some live data to confirm if the engine timing is indeed off. I'm not sure the noise you're hearing is conclusive enough. If you do eventually conclude the timing chain is buggered, you had better replace it asap. I'm not terribly familiar with N47s, but I'd assume they are an interference engine. If so, you will incur major damage if the chain breaks. Not worth taking a chance IMO.
I would wait til you get the Lift in your new garage - just take it easy in the meantime,
Defo change the Oil.
Just a shame you have to do the clutch now before you can do them both together :(.
Roll on the new garage - best wishes
The sound could be the clutch my mom’s 116d clutch made the engine sound loud just saying everything is guessing till something goes wrong
Yes
Its a shame in this day and age, i bought a 120D not long ago. Day after getting it airbag light came on but im getting no communication from the computers even garages cant get communication, so its end journey is scrap yard or break for parts 😢
George, could you also dovideo on 318d coolant flush? Very looking forward to it
Already done plenty of coolant flush videos
Sounds like injector seal blowing or injector intermittent
How much does a Single mass flywheel improve performance?
I had timing chain noise on my 2016 Astra j 1.6 cdti (b16dth-136 hp) at 100k miles I just change motor oil with mobil 1 esp 0w40 and noise stopped.I sold the car at 130k miles without change timing chain set.reccomend you try to use that motor oil and see the difference
Sounds quieter than mine and I had new timing chain 2 years ago and only 8k miles since
Well if it’s worth a clutch, an inspection of the TC whilst you’re in there is worth doing. Didn’t sound bad to me just typical 4 cylinder diesel, but I’m no expert.
Had the engine changed on a 116d the engine made much more noise it wouldn’t rev so I’m not sure if yours just yet
I wouldn't gamble om the chain breaking and then hoping its salvageable. Because then you still need to change the chain with a lot of more stuff to fix.
I fitted a SMF instead of a DMF on my Mini R53 and it drives a hell of a lot better. Yes you need to be able to control the clutch properly otherwise you get uncomfortable shifts. I changed it because the SMF Valeonkit was way cheaper than the LUK DMF kit.
Do both jobs on your ramps and you should be able to drive around cheaply for a long time to come.
Defenitely change engine oil if you haven't done it yet.
Engine sounds pretty good in my opinion.
If you can change clutch yourself it's only matter of pay for necessary parts (you don't pay for labour) so I would go with dual mass flywheel.
Cheers 👍
Doesn’t sound like a chain to me. I’ve seen many with bad chains. It does run rough though. Trying running the smooth running control test to see injector adaptations in ISTA.
Too many people worry about the dual mass flywheel, chances car its ok, it obvious when they are no good. I would get a second hand one. Converting to single mass is only a good idea if you are tuning the engine.
Sounds more like a knock than a timing chain rattle. An injector off a bit?
You need to do the clutch so replacing the timing chain at the same time would be sensible. I think you would regret not doing the extra work.
Hi George, I honestly think if it's just a run about use it till it dies then break it. There's far better cheap bmw's you could work on and do the jobs you want to do for the channel.
Sounds like guides/tensioners/sprockets have broken or something, and making a clunking noise, not the chain itself but who knows. I recommend replacing or at least a thorough inspection of chain state, better safe than sorry.
If you end up replacing it, do it by taking the gearbox off. You don't have a video on doing it that way, it seems easier (to me) and you can also do the clutch as you said, two birds with one stone. Good luck!
Definitely not easier.. would be an absolute nightmare trying to do the timing chain kit lying on the floor.. Much more comfortable having the engine out of the car
@@GeorgeAusters Working lying down is definitely harder than standing. I was just thinking it was easier in a sense that disconnecting every single thing from the engine seems complicated versus removing the transmission. I trust you though, you've done it and I haven't.
I saw a video where a guy was checking his timing chain condition by removing the valve cover and feeling out the chain by hand to see if it's loose. Maybe that's a way you can check if it's really the chain making the sound.
If it was me, replace the timing chain tensioner. That could be a video in of itself. Then If the noise persist do the timing chain replacment
Mine sounds the same after cold start up but goes smooth after 5 seconds, your timing chain sounds not lubricated at your start up. The 0w 30 is to blame, use 5w30 full syn euro high mileage.
It’s a case of when do you stop working on it if you do much more you have to do it all
I had the timing chain on my n47 e92 changed 2 weeks ago.. now after a long drive I’m getting a rough idle on restart, any ideas ?
I have 320d 11 plate N47 engine with 150 000 miles . Timing chain was replaced 50 k miles ago . Few days ago noticed engine become louder , went to mechanic who told me I need to change timing chain . They are supposed to last around 100 k miles . How in hell mine started to rattle after 50 k miles 😢 I am looking into £ 1300 repair
Why dont you get a used dual mass flywheel from scrapyard or forums where ppl strip wrecked bmws for parts?
Don’t think I could do all that labour just to put a used one in
For example I use always motul oil in my opinion its the best oil. And engine sounds more quet
What oil is 5w30 or 5w40
@@ventsislavivanov4542 5w30
Thought it sounded ok for a diesel
Anyway, if youre gonna replace the clutch it doesnt make any sense you dont at least check and recheck the timing set
I don’t think the timing chain needs replacing
I have known a few people who could go through a brand new clutch in 10k miles......most the daft buggas rest their left foot on it and the others just drive it like tgey stole it, so......
N47 = It will go. High pitch rattle sounds exactly same as on mine (RIP) 118d N47. There's a few vids showing how it sounds before change and after. Yours sounds bad as mine did.
Good luck.
I think need replacing.i not trust us well previous owner
Sounds like any other n47 to me. Out of interest does it use much oil? My 118d didnt use any but has suddenly started getting though 1l/1000 miles....
It doesn’t use any now I sorted the oil leak
How does the car recognise that the clutch is on its way out?
I was thinking that but it must have a way of measuring slip
Probably easier to hear on an N57. The N47 just sounds like a tractor anyway😊
It’s ok to me.
Good UA-cam experiment to just leave it...
If your going to lose money on it bin it for parts if it’s your pride and joy and your not going to sell go ahead
BMW will sell you 20 litre trade pack cube of oil for £57 , i bought 2 to oil change my 123d .
don't they sell Japanese import engines that side...easy way out as they come complete with clutch and flywheel...otherwise cut your loses as previous owner lied about many things on the car.
My opinion ..Go old ...1970's 80's BMW's - more intterestring, no plastic , no computers, not complicated and not boring!
I have a 1979 520
@@GeorgeAusters Yes i know , be great for you to get into welding , with summer aproaching it will not be such a bad job. looking forward.
Unfortunately George it's become a money pit, uneconomical to repair. Pass it on or part it out. Move on to another but 'not the cheapest.' 😅
Don’t touch it da car works ok
Chain stretched !! Replace !!
You got 7000 miles out of it. It's about what it's worth to you.
Sounds like an n47 lol
Their are generally a noisy diesel engine.
They are a noisy engine from new
That is to much of a noise comming from it. I have N47 and it doesn't sound as nearly loud as this. Timing chain would rattle only in first 2-4 seconds on cold start. Unfortunatelly yours is too loud to actually hear the rattle. You clearly need someone to take a look at it, since it is so loud for N47. Usually when they are healthy they are not as loud as M47, and yours are pretty loud for N47. Also when you turned on the enging it shakes too much... Again take it to someone who is specialist... Would recommend fixing that pulley before you actually try to hear the timing chain.
May sound louder because I put the microphone right upto the engine
@@GeorgeAusters mmm, can't really tell, but when you put mike back on yourself even then it sounds a lot louder then usual. I have a neighbor that has M47 TU2 I think it is, it's not this loud. I can tell you my N47 is whisper quite when compared to this one, even when you take mike back. There is a rattle, and I don't think it comes from chain, at least I couldn't tell since the rattle is constant. I can assure you that you can only hear rattle from chain in first few seconds on cold start. The rattle on chain is most similar to, or you can compare to the bracelets on used watch with stainless steel bracelets and you shake it, and you hear the chain on watch, similar sound is on timing chain, but a lot louder ofc, in those 2-4 sec. In order to hear that, you have to get rid of this rattle you have now. Maybe it is a pulley, that has bad bearings that produces a lot of noise and vibrations, maybe it is something else. In your position I would fix those things "around" it, that are not that expensive, because your motor noise is consistent so it doesn't look like the motor/engine itself has some issues. Then when you get rid of those, you would probably be able to clearly hear the rattle of the timing chain if it is present. Hope this makes some sense...
Time to cut your losses with this?
It’s turning out to be a bit of a turd that needs money and time chucking at it. Not sure I’d persevere given that is a four pot.
All cars need money spent on them and this hasn’t required that much given how much I bought it for
@@GeorgeAusters yeah, but versus what the car is actually worth it seems like chucking bad money after bad. It’s still just a four cylinder diesel (sorry, I’m a six cylinder snob).
I would say, sell it. 318d isn't a good engine. 320d is much better I think!
It's 95% the same engine in 16d 18d and 20d
Basically the same engine just different injectors and turbo.. I wanted the 318d because no swirl flaps and cheaper on tax
Hope for your sake it was cheap for this shitbox
This guy keeps saying about some E65 with 2.0d engine 🤣🤣🤣 I am yet to see 720d 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think he said e60 520d. He was talking about a 5 Series before :D But i get it, thats kinda confusing between e60 5series and e65.
@@luckylike3 No. The man just has no idea about BMW cars. I watched another video of him and again he was talking about E65 with 2 ltr diesel...and in another video he went to remap his E60 with empty fuel tank on 86km fuel reserve...the guy is a full retard hands down.
E60 520D
She’s a rattler 😂
Where is f***king workshop men? You told me it would be done this week and you have dissapear and you always keep saying you are back you need to focus then you go again another week after posting! Stay posting everyday and stop lying to us where is this workshop
New video up today at 6PM regarding the dream car garage👍🏻
If your going to change the clutch the timing chain is a no brainer.
KFC car 😂