Chain failure is most common on n47 2006-11 engines,after 11 they upgraded the tensioners HOWEVER these chains may still stretch and rattle on all 20.d engines upto 2018!!! Very few snap but it’s not unheard of. N57 which is in 30d/40d cars are ALOT less prone the timing chain failure. I will say this tho, over the course of 12 years I’ve owned 7 different cars will n47/n57 engine and serviced them all ever 10k or 6-8 months and NEVER had 1 issue with a chain or turbo etc. I know 3 people who have stuck to BMW’s 2 year or 18/20k service intervals and 2 of them needed chains replacing. Il leave the math to anyone reading this
@@AlexCapi i didin do it my self. Shop did. It has a 3 year warranty whit out km. Limit. Its a big Chain brand shop and they use fai kits all the time.
The following models have the problem: - E81/E82/E87/E88 116d/118d/120d - LCI cars built before 01/03/2011 only - E90/E91/E92/E93 316d/318d/320d built between September 2007 and 01/03/2011 (anything with Efficient Dynamics could have the problem if it's built before 01/03/2011) - E60/E61 LCI 520d built after September 2007 (models with Efficient Dynamcs, LCI 520ds built before September 2007 do not have this problem as they didn't change the engine until a few months after the LCI model was introduced) - F10/F11 520d with a build date of before 01/03/2011 - E84 X1 18d/20d/23d with a build date of before 01/03/2011 - E83 X3 2.0d built after September 2007 - F25 X3 xDrive20d with a build date of before 01/03/2011 Models built between 05/01/2009 and 01/03/2011 do not require as many parts to be changed as those built before those dates. There is no problem with N47 engines built after 01/03/2011 (for now). More via this link: www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...php?p=82905489
I've 2009 E60 520D , it has full BMW dealer service history ... last service done 17 days ago. Last evening while going on a road the engine came to sudden halt and finally today came to know from BMW workshop that ... timming chain has been snapped and crankshaft broke .. needs engine replacement. The cost is around £10K. BMW provided me with nothing but the conventional sympathies.
Ważne! W dniu 15 stycznia 2015 r. w Polsce BMW ogłosiło akcję serwisową dla samochodów z silnikiem 2.0 diesel z początku produkcji: N47D20A (2007 i cześć 2008 r.). Naprawa polega na wymianie napinacza łańcucha i innych części w razie potrzeby.
honestly every brand now has some major issue with something, cars are just getting more complicated and they are cheaping out on materials and design it just to last the warranty so you go buy the latest one, just like your phone, rarely people fix their phone because 2 years later theres a better model so they buy the new one, cars will be the same..
@@MrTimstaaa I work on German/British car. Jaguar are the worse to fix. It's like 5 hours to remove the supercharger. Audi definitely is more of a bitch to fix than bmw in most cases. I drive a 335i because it's fun as hell and the engine is solid and easy to work on. Its every thing connected to the engine that can have issues(water pump for sure).
@@kylerwinters yeap I drive a 335i too, and it still running like the first day with almost 260000 tkm /160000 miles, I ve fixed the known problems, like oil house gasket, oil pan gasket, vanos solenoids and the water pump.
The timing chain actually is a serviceable item at 100000km . Even the vw golf gtis experience this problem. Diesel oil should also be changed in less than 15k km. It is the dealers fault for giving service intervals that is incorrect but economically viable for them when the car is under their care. I fix bmws for a living to ans with the proper pre 15k km services and pre failure replacements of parts. The cars work perfectly. Same can be said for all cars . Just some more expensive than others.
I never thought that BMW can fail so bad. I was so proud of this company and all the awards that BMW engines won till now. The worst thing of this situation is taking no responsibility and handling the situation as the company like this is supposed to. Shame. Fell so sorry for the customers of N47 engines. The engines been recalled, but anyway, brand felt down
Failed in our 2013 1.6D Mini countryman when it was 6 years old on 52k with full service history. BMW Mini offered 30% off new engine only - would still have cost us £4k to replace - wasn't worth it so sold it on to a local mechanic - whole family will never buy another Mini or BMW and we had lots previous to this!! Shocking scale of known problems to non-serviceable timing chain
I had a bmw and nothing but problems even the dealer couldn't fix the issues after 7 visits finally sold it and bought a honda which I had for 8 years and never seen a dealer for repairs at all only went in for services each year just sold that car and got a toyota and yes I know then have had lots of recalls but at least they had the bloody guts to recall and fix the cars free bmw just showed 2 fingers as shown in the video let the customer pay the £4000 they couldnt give a toss German engineering yes may be good but when something goes wrong it's time to remortgage your house to pay for there ridiculous charges. Always said it Japanese cars are the most reliable cars in the world
Toyota and Honda have gone downhill, both having pretty serious issues like that takata airbag recall, Honda been having serious issues with transmissions and engine issues on the Honda CRV, Toyota had to recall 1 million hybrid cars for fire risk and they also had stalling issue recall.
My timing chain went on my 3 series last year, a 2013 model with 84k miles, thankfully after a month of arguing they agreed to put a brand new engine in if I paid the labour costs. Massive relief from the £11k they originally wanted to replace the engine.
I bought a 2006 118i BMW at 60000km timing chain failed, jumped out of rails. No anti skipping brackets apparently like in later model. Despite 2 requests to BMW they are ignoring my issue, no answer from them. It's going to cost me over $3000 to fix it, $600 just to diagnose the fault. It seems BMW will guarantee repair for 2 years but all services have to be done at an official agent. So disappointed on the car and the brand. After 2 years I will resell it and go and buy Japanese. BMW is crap and their customer services the poorest I have seen. Edited to add 2 new faults found, accelerator and hose failure. Total of repairs over NZ$6000 now
No offence but you bought the entry model. Your engine is not as reliable as the 6 cyl engined variants. Hence why never buy a european car with a small engine variant. If you cheap out on these german cars, you'll pay more afterwards. Hence why always go for a premium version and if you can't buy it, don't buy a bmw until you can. Bmw specialist.
In Thailand has the same problem. People like BMW but they buy Japanese car.Japanese brands have more reliability and cheaper service.Maybe BMW don't want big sales.
@@e36mmm how on Earth can you say so much shit to that poor lady? T chain failure at 60.000 km? Are you serious? This is a very serious design failure. What next? We'll throw away a car after the warranty expires?
There is a decent reason to put the cam drive chain at the rear of the engine. By taking the chain from the load end of the crankshaft the torsional vibration load is reduced, giving more accurate valve timing. But a stronger design might help.
Its a fully known common problem on all BMW owners forums, you'll google and see hundreds of the same cases. Some 50k miles some 150k miles. Some 3 years old some 6 years..etc.Its not just 1 series but all bmw's with the N47 engine. My first bmw i owned and it failed in 1 month of owning it. I am put off of BMW for life, i will never ever buy a BMW vehicle ever again whether has n47 engine or not. POOR QUALITY.
Tomas Kato 6 cylinder diesel also brakes down. My friend had last year first e70 timing chain broke with 230 000 km, than his second x6 same engine 3.0 l 173 kw with 270 000km and this he told me to change timing chain before it brakes maybe 20 days before, and i didn't. Last week my e61 525xd 2008 with 220k died on Autobahn and in service its fck timing chain. And i have x5 with same engine but more km on it, shit. I have to sell shit and buy some other brand but its all same shit, audi, mercedes also. I don't know what to buy that i dont have problems
There is no need to remove the engine to replace the timing chain, it´s done from underneath the car. The issue happens mostly with series 1 cars up to 2009. In 2009 BMW introduced modifications to the chain and parts, but still the chain needs to be replaced at about 100K miles or before if the car is not maintained well. Anyway, all timing chains should be replaced eventually in all cars.
Finally someone understands. There us no such thing as long life or unlimited on timing chains. Ive replaced mine at 91k in 2014. Now 2021 142k going strong. Oil change every 7k/8k. 0w-30 is crap its too thin makes the chain sound really bad. I stuck to 5w-30, but some use 5w-40. My next chain replacement will be at 170k probably 2026 if i keep the car for long.
@@QuattroBajeena I think with more frequent oil changes, this chain should last longer, but most of the BMW customer, without wanting to insult anyone, are clueless when it comes to internal combustion engine and they think, that driving 25k miles between oil changes is ok
I have a 2009 N47 bmw which now has 401,000km on the odometer with original chain and can hardly hear any chain rattling. However as a precaution i want to replace it.
@@ndakandaka Good!. Even if it doesn´t break, it´s a good idea to replace it, since it´s still a mechanical part that gets streched out with its use, so it should be changed to keep the car´s original performance.
Good video, Apart from the expensive and common timing chain problem on the N47 engine, of which I sadly now have personal experience of, BMW also has the oil leakage problem on almost all N47 engines I have seen, the oil consumption is up the wall, and BMW representatives just say " it's normal for this type of engine". BMW doesn't seem to be too concerned about this. My personal opinion is to avoid 4 cylinder BMW's. And what says that newer engines should be any better than the N47?
our n47 did not need any oil at all. not 1 single ml for 30.000km till the next oilchange. it's a shame, because the car is now history because of this chain
If your oil is full of grit you need to check your oil filter. If by full of grit you mean black, that is normal, oil will turn very dark after a few hundred miles.
Hi Nick, By grit I meant small particles....the oil start to feel like potato powder after 10000 kms when you rub it between your finger tips....and that's why I don't think that longer service intervals is any good, despite that the oil itself may still be in good order chemically.
The anti skipping guides have failed in my 2010 118i and I am told there is now swarf in my engine oil. I am awaiting advice from BMW on the likely repair cost. Given that my 2005 model 320td experienced a swirl flap failure (causing the car to be written off) I will never purchase another BMW.
Okay guys my bmw f10 2011 timing chain snapped and bmw paid 8k and I paid 2k towards repair, I had 130k on clock, happy with the result running nice and smooth.
Important! From 15 of January 2015 in Poland BMW announced product recall for cars with early 2.0 diesel engine: N47D20A (2007 and some 2008 cars). They are replacing chain tensioner and other parts if required.
MR Guys, do u have web link for this recall announcement pls? Living in Slovakia currently and I'm planninng to check whether it's applicaple to my 318d or not.
MR BMW UK are acting very strangely. Asked me to book my car in for 'significant enhancement' (whaaat?) And in the same conversation said my mid 2008 N47 engine was not subject to recall. Won't explain why they changed their mind, BMW UK will not say what selection parameters are. All very odd. Trading standards out of scope. So - don't buy a BMW diesel!! Manufacturer is trying every trick in the book to avoid issues.
BMW has dropped the ball on so many models. Have a google at N52 engine issues. This was my first and last BMW. Would never trust or recommend the brand to anyone again.
The same happened with my 118i (2007, 120k km, no garantee). No warning lights, neither before and after. Although a day before I heard some light metallic noise from the front, but I though maybe something around the brakes hitting that metal shield around it. (it was winter, and I was 400km from home in a motel, so I haven't investigated it further) But next day, the engine was at least -60PS weaker, the consumption was sky high (40l/100km), I barely could make it to the work (3-4km distance). Then came ADAC (german "yellow angel"). I told him the symptoms and he known it right away it is the timing chain. He removed the oil cap to make it sure, and it was. He said it will be €€€ to replace the chain. Few days after I have a call from the BMW service, that it can't be replaced and complete new engine is needed, as the lose chain damaged the engine. I read about it, that a new engine will be around €€€€€€ not to mention in Germany in an official BMW service it would be even higher. But after I imagined how I going to smashed the car with a huge hammer and lit it on fire, the service guy continued that the BMW admits this design failure and they will replace it free with a new factory 0km engine. I don't know if this is because I was in Bayern or in Germany, but I'm afraid if this would happened in a not so lucky country I would be doomed, big time. Nevertheless, I'm not a fond of gambling, so 1 year or so, and I will replace it with a Toyota.
Sorry to say this as a Bimmer tech, i fix bimmers for living but will not buy one for my self anymore. Most car makers make one mistake, maybe engine mistake or trans mistake etc, bimmer have problems in engine, trans sucks, timing sucks, cross over pipes sucks, valve seals are sucks and sooooo many other problems, stay away from BMW less you are doctor or lawyer.
Twin turbo engines are fairly new and yet no one having major problems yet, but im sure its a ticking bomb that is wating to blow up some day. Just imagine when turbo goes out and the bmw building they will go out soon and imagine a price to buy a new turbo. For twin turbo engine its very slow car comparing to my 4.6is.
i am planning to buy e90, have few choices, 330d pre fl, 320i n43b20 engine, and 335i. or maybe bimmer with 335d engine... or 123d e87 (twin turbo n47)
My dudes, bmw is a great brand or at least was. Stay away from all Bmw’s in the last ten years. It’s all about the E34, E39, E36, E46 and the E38s are alright. I don’t know about diesels though. I live in the US. Basically stick to the early nineties to the mid two thousands petrol Bmw’s and you’ll be alright.
I've been driving and servicing my BMWs for over 12 years now had over dozen of them. Currently have 4 in my possession. Not one of them have given me an engine failure where it is catastrophic. Yes parts are designed to time out and preventative maintenance is crucial and expensive but never catastrophic like example above. However engine sizes are critical when choosing to own a BMW. Never own a small engined european car like BMW, audi or Mercedes. Yes they make engines as small as 1.5L 3 cyl engine but I never buy BMWs with engine capacity below 2.5L I6 because any engine size below is gutless, engine can have strain due to chassis weight and BMWs especially are known for their inline 6 technology. Not 4 cylinder! 4 of my BMWs vary from 2.5L, 2.7L, 3.0L and 3.2L not one of them in 10 years of ownership has given me headaches like what you see in the video. People buy entry model products thinking they will run like the premium versions but they won't. Hence why it's cheaper than the premium versions like 3, 5 and 7 series. Same with audi or mercedes. Never buy entry models and go for proper versions and you'll be okay. If you don't have the money to look after it, don't own one and buy a Toyota. Simple. Ps: the known issue above is rectified in MY11+
Ex-BMW customer from the UK. Car with the N53 engine had failures, spent nearly £ 1,000 on two trips to the garage to be told neither worked and they believed it needed another £ 3,500 worth of work. Discovered that in the USA this would have been covered even though it was out of standard warranty because the parts are notoriously unreliable. BMW UK don't care for customers who have religiously had their cars serviced at their dealerships. Searching the internet I have discovered many of their engines have inherent problems, not just the N47 or N53 but many. Bimmerboost claim BMW just try to ensure the engines in the M3 / M4 last long enough to get out of warranty then leave the owners without support! I will never buy BMW again.
i just suffered an engine failure on 2010 740il petrol, with 101500 km. if bmw do not cover the repair it is cheaper to sell the car for scarab (cost estimate is 20,000 usd). i knew about their reliability issues from repetition, but never found solid evidence such as this during my search. i now will make it my mission to let people know their design philosophy. you better light your money on fire instead of buying a bmw. for compassion i have a Lexus ls 460 2007 with 250,000 km and the engine is in perfect condition. the biggest maintenance i did were injector cleaning.
On n47 motor , you must change timing chain every 100k km and that's it , problem solved ! The engine have some problems from the factory but you can avoid that changing it every 100k km.
BMW are now doing a free recall on these engines. So next time your car needs servicing take it to a BMW dealership and they'll fix the timing chain free of charge (provided it hasn't already failed of course). This is for 2.0 diesels N47 engine from 2007-2011 models (1, 3 and 5 series). This has been the case since April 2015. If it's too late and engine has already failed, go onto the bimmer forums to find a reputable Independent BMW garage that rebuilds these engines. The cost can range from £1800 to £2500, if someone offers to fix it for less or more, stay away. The parts alone are £1200 before labour and VAT. If you need any more advice let me know, had the same problem and took 6 months to resolve. If you're planning to buy one, get a reputable warranty with BMW or warranty direct and do your homework before signing up.
Hi Simon, brought a 2nd hand 2012year 123D Automatic from a car dealer just under a month ago, only 43,000miles on the clock. Gonna upload a video with noise tomorrow, dealership which is non BMW has given me a 3 month warranty for any amount if anything goes wrong. Hoping to god it's not the timing chain though.
This type of mechanical issue is NOT a BMW problem, its a business problem repeating itself throughout the automotive environment. Ford, Chevy, Nissan, ect all have serious issues that creep up AFTER warranty. Parts materials are being skimped upon and the result is "its not a warranty problem." Way to many specific and repeatable examples to list. There is a lot of shame going around in the business world and its often mistaken for cleverness and penny pinching.
accordingly to BMW maintenance data, the timing chain should not be replaced unless there is a problem in the system like a rattle. BMW always had some sort of issues with its engines. like the seals in the vanos system of the m54 engines, they were not design to withstand that kind of heat and would fail.
BMW`s M57T2 must be one of the best engines they ever made!!!? (fully aluminium, front mounted timing chain, variable vane turbo, piezo injectors, common rail,etc.) in the case of the x25d no swirl-flaps so this engine has no apparent weakness.
Just happened to my 520d 2010 model, car stopped in the middle of the road. The car has a mileage of less than 70k, and full service history. BMW agreed to pay partial cost of repair but still costed me over £1200 to repair. Gutted that such failure should happen at all!!
The earlier m47 engine never had this problem and was featured in the 2005 - 2006 e90 models I own a 2006 e90 320d and I would consider it to be bulletproof
Iv been driving my 2008 118D now for nearly 100k and i only just heard about this failure today! Why don't garages say anything about this? This makes me frightened even driving my car now...
Zksay OK. Sure, there are SOME people who never drive over 50 mph. So what? In my mechanic's view, you cannot drive frequently on European motorways at average speeds with an N47 engine and not experience a breakdown. He cannot believe BMW has got away with this. Neither can I.
I'm so sorry to hear that Tom. There are people who do preventative conditioning of the motor (new sliders, chain and sprocket). My mechanic says that makes it as good as any of the other engines. He cannot believe BMW did not do a recall. How many people do not buy BMWs now because of this? A reputation is hard to make and easy to ruin - after the top dogs have milked their share, of course. He says shame on those who put our lives at risk.
Michael McGovern The car has been sold, and every garage, 2nd hand dealer or new dealer KNOWS about these problems so you only get very little back for these cars ...
i dont understand why the build one engine to fail completely... is it worth the people who wont buy another one.. after 40 years of having bmw, we wont buy a new one anymore.. is this worth it? what a bunch of idiots.
+Axtschnitzel haha yeah. Our family is growing and we were planning to buy a new 5-serie soon. Now we bought an Audi instead.. bmw lost a lot more than the selfcost to repair our car and thats just the first of many we would have bought. Its trouly an old capitalistic way of handling this kind of matters. Even though they missed the long-way economic view. In our case they would have sold a new car the same day the old was repaired.
@@Axtschnitzel it seems years ago they over engineerd cars by (I'm guessing) about 70%. So older cars could take quite a bit of punishment is; no/long oil changes. Today(last 15/10yrs it seems Fkg accounts run BMW and they cheap out on the quality and materials. Judging by the high amount of failures modern cars are no longer over engineerd more underegineered why? Who knows money? If they fix just one BMW N47 timing chain they'll have to fix them all.
note: the tech at 2:45 says the timing chain is designed to last the life time of the engine. he is correct. the entire car is designed to fail before 100k. I am a shop owner, I see it every day. I have worked as a dealer technician for a few brands. it is all brands, not just bmw
same happened to me with my bmw 320d 2012 with 133000 mileage chain belt snapped on m6 at 12:30 at night with my wife and kida on board it was terrible i will never trust bmw again i am moving to Japanese cars
S Lax listen, 100,000 miles is when a major service is meant to be done. Timing chains are like any other part, like the brake pads, have to be replaced. Going 133000 miles on one chain and then being surprised when a chain snaps? You're delusional.
Michael G you're completely wrong. Timing BELTS last around 60-120k km... chains usually outlast the car. I've had a mercedes benz which was at 550.000km on the original chain when I sold it and that's not a 1 off scenario, that's the way it's meant to be. Also, it's usually not the chain which snaps, it's a sprocket which fails on the N47.
Elís Kjartansson absolutely not, chains stretch, ever heard of Audi/Volkswagen owners discuss chain rattle on diesels? That's the chain stretching past the point where the tensioner can compensate. Then they explode and destroy the engine. Also, you might be right about old mercs and old cars in general, the chains were different, they were thicker and stronger withless joints. Today they are meant to last 100000 miles to make the $$ on replacement parts. BMW make almost more money servicing their cars than selling them. And also, not replacing a chain after 500,000 miles is neglegance in my opinion. Cars lifetime ends when the chain does, so I guess that's why they say it's lifetime. I service my cars myself and maybe I'm a bit pedantic but I'd rather change them every 150000 miles than rely on the "assurance" that it's a quality component. Nothing lasts forever no matter what blabber the BMW sales manager tells you.
gabigowriel how exactly does modern technology effect chain strength? It's not like technology can magically make metal or the joints stronger. Look at a timing chain of an old BMW 5 series from before the 90s, then look at the timing chain in the video. New timing chains on modern engines are made so that they JUST about hold together so they explode as soon as you surpass the warranty or the change by date. It's thin, one layer and the joints are smaller and more brittle.
Michael G they don't change the timing chain on a major service you drip. Timing chains don't need to be replaced at 100k either you dum dum. They are checked as and when required. The guy is not delusional at all. This engine is just shite end of. I rebuild engines and this is just a shit design mistake.
I build these in the factory, I only build a N47 engine 2 or 3 times out of every 100 cars. Its by far the least popular of the 5 different engines we put together
There are cars with design flaws for sure but many timing chain jobs I’ve done were due to people not changing the oil frequently enough. Manufacturers recommend crazy intervals like 10,000 miles for an oil change. If you can’t afford to change your oil at least every 5,000 miles then you have no business buying a bmw or any European car for that matter.
Timing chains are preferred over timing belts because they should never need replacing and therefore last the duration of the vehicle. Timing gears are far better but are more expensive to mass produce, although Honda employed this idea on many of its motorcycles. If I was a BMW engineer, I would design the engine to have the timing chain at the front regardless, as my way of thinking would be," what if". I would be thinking of ever possible eventuality. Don't make them like they use to. :(
Theoretically it shouldn´t break, but with poor maintenance (oil changes), eventually it will. Anyway, even with good maintenance, the chain is a mechanical part that gets stretched out with its use and it´s a good idea to replace it to keep the engine performing as new.
Their previous Diesel engine was the M47, I've got a Rover 75 with the M47R, a Rover re-engineered version. I've had 7 of these cars without any problem and my latest 75 has the M47R with 225,000 miles on it. A shame they upgraded it. Why diss a good thing?
My 118d is currently in the dealers having new timing chain tensioner and upper and lower timing chains installed, following a BMW recall notice. Seems they have now identified there is a problem, and are replacing the necessary parts in affected models, at no cost to the customer. My advice, if you have one of these models, check with your dealer.
+Jithin James mine is an 08 plate, with only 54000 miles on the clock. Had had no problems at all with it, but when I booked it in for its service they told me it was due the upgrade under the Quality Enhancement Program recall.
+Jithin James u have an 118i and thats not a n47 diesel!!! U dont have this problem! Your motor is a petrol! Just check your oil level! If the level is not right you will have chain problems!
Wow that is bad, putting the timing chain at the back of the engine is incredibly bad design! Who's idea was that? That a rival for VWs emissions cheat software in terms of stupid car design! Older BMWs seem to last longer and be much better made and easier to work on too!
I have 2 BMWs, and just bought another one (didn't arrive yet). First has the n47 engine, it runs fine so far but only 50k km, and the other is a 2008 z4 3.0 265ps n52 160k km . Oil filter gasket slightly leaking now, scheduled for replacement for 110$(equivalent). They are for sale now, first because of the n47 and the z because I want something built racetrack only like i.e. Westfield xtr2 although the z is very good.
I was going down the highway a few years ago in my old 94 Mazda pick-up. All of the sudden my engine died. I turns out my timing belt broke. My little 2.3l four cylinder was a non-interference engine as opposed to an interference engine. I was lucky. It was a few hundred dollars to have the belt replaced. If you have an interference engine and the timing chain literally breaks while running, the engine is pretty much toast. You need to be "religious" about regular oil / filter changes and don't abuse the engine. Here's a good definition from Wiki. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_engine
“Sudden loss of power” lol More like complete destruction of engine and valves and metal shreds flying out of exhaust and seen rattling along the road.
I've got a 123d 2008 and had a chain replacement couple years back, but it ran dry a little few month back after a oil leak now that's sorted I have a little rattle from the chain, been told might be worth trying to change the tensioner bolt that accessible from the outside, what do you think and where is it? Thanks mate good video
Yesterday was driving on motorway 70mph, suddenly engine cut out, when stopped at the curb tried to start it, the sound was like starter just spins and no any noises from the engine, on the dash no engine management light etc, is it timing chain???? Its 2008 e91 320d
No the issue was rectified in 2009 , however their has been cases of failure beyond that up to 2011. BMW did a "factory bodge " on all N47s built after this tightening the sprockets and chain. This on a cold morning gives harsh vibration from the engine , as i am well aware as my 2012 F10 is feels like a MK1 Transit in the morning !!
Should it matter if the vehicle has been serviced by a non BMW approved garage ? So long as no parts are not BMW for example if its just oil change filters then I see no reason a filter can affect the timing chain weakness. BMW are using this as an easy excuse.Come on #BMW accept that you go this part wrong. Be the bigger respectable car manufacturer you say you are. Even if you do have everything done by BMW it seems they have decided to no longer offer a recall and that is quite shocking.
The error is due to contamination of the engine oil with fuel on the post injection time. Solution is remuved diesel particulate filter !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Manu - Yeah rubbish, nothing to do with post injection & the DPF (which is their to stop the crap getting into the air!), bad timing chain components design on the N47.
My 2006 Honda Civic Petrol automatic has done 211,000 miles I’m now on my third Battery and I’ve replaced the i-Shift clutch at 160,000 miles service at Honda main dealer for £450 and replaced the front suspension once I’ve been all around Europe in it and I’ve never broken down except a failed battery, I even started the car in Norway in -31 without an issue The Vtec engine on my car is running like new
part of the problem is the "long-life" oil. so they make the car difficult to repair by putting the chain at the back, tell you only change the oil every 2 years and then when it fails slightly out of warranty expect you to pay for it all. They're scamming people, nothing more to say.
It is shit design through and through. If it is lubrication problem, the journal on crankshaft and the oil ring on piston are gonna go long before a well speced chain have any sign of problem.
The problem is bmw’s service interval is designed to delay all problems until just after the warranty period expires. 15k mike oil changes are ridiculous
How to avoid: Change oil every 5-6k miles If buying second hand, having service history is helpful as you can see how often the car was serviced Listen to the back of your engine regularly and try to determine wether it sounds rattly, if so, get something done SOONER rather than later. Don’t buy these privately, it may end in disaster pretty quickly Respect your engine (don’t work it hard in 1st gear every time you move off) Just give it a general visual inspection every week or so, don’t be afraid to open the bonnet - you see people all the time who think they ‘don’t know anything about cars’ never checking under the bonnet, but some problems are quite easy to see even to someone who knows nothing about engines (ie. if there’s oil everywhere, you have a problem. Or if your engine has no coolant in the expansion tank, you might have a leak.) It’s simple stuff. Just be vigilante and you should avoid problems! (This generally applies to all cars to be honest!)
Hey >> Same thing happened >> I have E60 520d 08plate 100k, I notice Gear slipping and some small engine sound, and my MOT is also due. Last Friday(08-May-2015) I booked service, MOT and complete engine check in BMW Heathrow London, Friday evening they called me and said I have Timing Chain Issue > I told them ok let me know the parts as I have Cairgaint 3years complete engine warranty> yesterday(Monday) I again called them > they said its gonna take time as full engine has o remove to fix. I afraid that it gonna cost me high and labor. Today(12-May-2015) I called them.. Guy named Harry told me I no need to buy any parts.. and BMW is going to pay for it and will take another 3 days to fix!! I was like ... Ohh whatttt ..... then I Google the issue and found your post... hope they will not charge me... I Just seen in Wikipedia >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N47 (There is now a recall (15th January 2015) by BMW to replace the chain tensioner and, if required, the timing chain.) I would be lucky if thy really do for free of charge.
I've got a 2000 model 328se. I was going to upgrade this year, and get a newer model. Not now, I'll stick with my old girl, 155000 miles on the clock, still going strong, can't believe she's only worth about £500 !!
I have a 2010 F10 520d and this has just happened to mine on 100k, still owe £6k on the car and dealerships not getting back to me. I thought BMW rectified this issue in 2009, obviously not as mine was September 2010 and it has not got the uprated tensioners which I will get on my reconditioned engine. I have loved BMW for years, owned a few but this is my last now. I NEVER expecteed this to happen to a well maintained car this new. What a F****** joke.
I own one E91 318D and I just got the noise from the timing chain. My car is getting new timing chain and other parts around it, and this will fix the problem hopefully. But I wonder if this problem will come back later after the repair? the timing chain got changed after 120 000km.
Odin Slåttvik yeah, unfortunately this problem returns again. I have the same car too and i changed the timing chain twice. So, good luck! If you don’t want another problems, sell the car and fuck bmw!😡
One can say BMW has improved the chain since many years 🤔... but it's not good enough for engine life cycle. 520d prod.date 2011.9 and 170tkm now I have that problem too. For an engine life about 150tkm it's actually perfect timed time chain. 😉
Type your cars designation on google and n47 at the end if the wiki appears than you have an n47 engine,i have it to so basically we are timing belt buddies
Still common problem with the n47... Friend of mine changed the chain and everything timing related for about 1000€. Of course the engine was still running then so there wasnt any exess damage
@@LorenzoClara97 I believe so yeah. The problem is caused by the tensioner where the chain eventually gets loose and starts rattling. Updated parts will fix it.
It doesn't help that, for a given engine displacement, power output and reliability are generally inversely proportional. BMW seem to eek more and more power and torque out of these 2 litre diesels every few years; look at the results.
Oh shit, well I was looking at getting a '08/'09 123d next year as an upgrade. So what does everybody suggest instead? Has to be at least a 2.0 diesel (for economy) have at least 170bhp, roughly 250-300 ftlb of torque, 5 door, fun to drive, preferably cruise control or the option to fit as well, and lastly... reliable....... Fire away :) I considered the same year Audi A3 2.0 tdi, a lot less power, but quality interior, bit less fun to drive but still good enough. Might get hate for this as well... but I kinda like the look of the Skoda Octavia Vrs 2.0 diesel, so yeah that sort of car that won't break down
the problem in the camshaft... in it there isn't the little hole for the oil passage... the oil arrive to the chain flowing inside the camshaft ! Opposite the pulley you must insert a plug to close the camshaft. and the oil will go out on the chain ;)
mi contatteresti su facebook per favore? scambierei volentieri 2 parole perchè vorrei prendere una bmw ma mi sto orientando su un mazda 6 per ovvi motivi di affidabilità.
colleague at work suffered this expensive failure; well over £2k to fix; poor fellah's stuck with it cos he can't afford another car for the time being; he hates that car!
Just put a 500eur deposit on a 2012bmw f10 msport 2.0d, should I be worried, she was first registered June 2012, have engine number but no idea of build date.Due to pay balance on Friday should I walk? Thanks
Dude my march 2011 built 320d had this issue. from my research they half assed fixed it in 2009 and then properly fixed it in march 2011. i caught mine before it failed because i heard the chain rattling. managed to get the Dell-Boy dealer to pay for it, plus a new flywheel for my troubles.
![BAD vs GOOD TIMING CHAIN CHECK! [BMW N47 Timing Chain Noise and PicoScope 2204A] | Mechanic Mindset](/img/n.gif)
Chain failure is most common on n47 2006-11 engines,after 11 they upgraded the tensioners HOWEVER these chains may still stretch and rattle on all 20.d engines upto 2018!!! Very few snap but it’s not unheard of. N57 which is in 30d/40d cars are ALOT less prone the timing chain failure. I will say this tho, over the course of 12 years I’ve owned 7 different cars will n47/n57 engine and serviced them all ever 10k or 6-8 months and NEVER had 1 issue with a chain or turbo etc. I know 3 people who have stuck to BMW’s 2 year or 18/20k service intervals and 2 of them needed chains replacing. Il leave the math to anyone reading this
They changed things in 2010 not 2011..
N47D20C. 2012. 223000km. No chain issues but i got all changed for peace of mind. Used the FAI kit.
@@raimom3179so you went through the hassle to change the timing chain and you didn’t even use the original brand? 😂
@@AlexCapi i didin do it my self. Shop did. It has a 3 year warranty whit out km. Limit. Its a big Chain brand shop and they use fai kits all the time.
What about 116 ed 1.6 diesel 2013? Thanks
The following models have the problem:
- E81/E82/E87/E88 116d/118d/120d - LCI cars built before 01/03/2011 only
- E90/E91/E92/E93 316d/318d/320d built between September 2007 and 01/03/2011 (anything with Efficient Dynamics could have the problem if it's built before 01/03/2011)
- E60/E61 LCI 520d built after September 2007 (models with Efficient Dynamcs, LCI 520ds built before September 2007 do not have this problem as they didn't change the engine until a few months after the LCI model was introduced)
- F10/F11 520d with a build date of before 01/03/2011
- E84 X1 18d/20d/23d with a build date of before 01/03/2011
- E83 X3 2.0d built after September 2007
- F25 X3 xDrive20d with a build date of before 01/03/2011
Models built between 05/01/2009 and 01/03/2011 do not require as many parts to be changed as those built before those dates.
There is no problem with N47 engines built after 01/03/2011 (for now).
More via this link: www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...php?p=82905489
I've 2009 E60 520D , it has full BMW dealer service history ... last service done 17 days ago.
Last evening while going on a road the engine came to sudden halt and finally today came to know from BMW workshop that ... timming chain has been snapped and crankshaft broke .. needs engine replacement.
The cost is around £10K.
BMW provided me with nothing but the conventional sympathies.
Ważne! W dniu 15 stycznia 2015 r. w Polsce BMW ogłosiło akcję serwisową dla samochodów z silnikiem 2.0 diesel z początku produkcji: N47D20A (2007 i cześć 2008 r.). Naprawa polega na wymianie napinacza łańcucha i innych części w razie potrzeby.
German cars are long gone in terms of reliability. All top brands had a lot of serious problems, but ppl still buys them like crazy. 👍🚘
honestly every brand now has some major issue with something, cars are just getting more complicated and they are cheaping out on materials and design it just to last the warranty so you go buy the latest one, just like your phone, rarely people fix their phone because 2 years later theres a better model so they buy the new one, cars will be the same..
but crazy ppl still buy them. /fixed
S-tech. Your exactly right. Bmw = too many problems
@@MrTimstaaa I work on German/British car. Jaguar are the worse to fix. It's like 5 hours to remove the supercharger. Audi definitely is more of a bitch to fix than bmw in most cases.
I drive a 335i because it's fun as hell and the engine is solid and easy to work on. Its every thing connected to the engine that can have issues(water pump for sure).
@@kylerwinters yeap I drive a 335i too, and it still running like the first day with almost 260000 tkm /160000 miles, I ve fixed the known problems, like oil house gasket, oil pan gasket, vanos solenoids and the water pump.
The timing chain actually is a serviceable item at 100000km . Even the vw golf gtis experience this problem. Diesel oil should also be changed in less than 15k km. It is the dealers fault for giving service intervals that is incorrect but economically viable for them when the car is under their care. I fix bmws for a living to ans with the proper pre 15k km services and pre failure replacements of parts. The cars work perfectly. Same can be said for all cars . Just some more expensive than others.
I never thought that BMW can fail so bad.
I was so proud of this company and all the awards that BMW engines won till now. The worst thing of this situation is taking no responsibility and handling the situation as the company like this is supposed to.
Shame.
Fell so sorry for the customers of N47 engines.
The engines been recalled, but anyway, brand felt down
Failed in our 2013 1.6D Mini countryman when it was 6 years old on 52k with full service history. BMW Mini offered 30% off new engine only - would still have cost us £4k to replace - wasn't worth it so sold it on to a local mechanic - whole family will never buy another Mini or BMW and we had lots previous to this!! Shocking scale of known problems to non-serviceable timing chain
I had a bmw and nothing but problems even the dealer couldn't fix the issues after 7 visits finally sold it and bought a honda which I had for 8 years and never seen a dealer for repairs at all only went in for services each year just sold that car and got a toyota and yes I know then have had lots of recalls but at least they had the bloody guts to recall and fix the cars free bmw just showed 2 fingers as shown in the video let the customer pay the £4000 they couldnt give a toss German engineering yes may be good but when something goes wrong it's time to remortgage your house to pay for there ridiculous charges.
Always said it Japanese cars are the most reliable cars in the world
Toyota and Honda have gone downhill, both having pretty serious issues like that takata airbag recall, Honda been having serious issues with transmissions and engine issues on the Honda CRV, Toyota had to recall 1 million hybrid cars for fire risk and they also had stalling issue recall.
At least they admit unlike bmw will never admit
E46 6 cylinder crew checking in with 0 problems ever. Lol
e39 6 cylinder squad confirmed! :D
M54 ftw
E32 with the senior six saying hello.
M47 engine cars too, if they have deleted the swirl flap :D
M57 👍
My timing chain went on my 3 series last year, a 2013 model with 84k miles, thankfully after a month of arguing they agreed to put a brand new engine in if I paid the labour costs. Massive relief from the £11k they originally wanted to replace the engine.
How much was the labour cost ?
I bought a 2006 118i BMW at 60000km timing chain failed, jumped out of rails. No anti skipping brackets apparently like in later model. Despite 2 requests to BMW they are ignoring my issue, no answer from them. It's going to cost me over $3000 to fix it, $600 just to diagnose the fault. It seems BMW will guarantee repair for 2 years but all services have to be done at an official agent. So disappointed on the car and the brand. After 2 years I will resell it and go and buy Japanese. BMW is crap and their customer services the poorest I have seen.
Edited to add 2 new faults found, accelerator and hose failure. Total of repairs over NZ$6000 now
I would take it to trents ,poole and leave it there
No offence but you bought the entry model. Your engine is not as reliable as the 6 cyl engined variants. Hence why never buy a european car with a small engine variant. If you cheap out on these german cars, you'll pay more afterwards. Hence why always go for a premium version and if you can't buy it, don't buy a bmw until you can. Bmw specialist.
In Thailand has the same problem. People like BMW but they buy Japanese car.Japanese brands have more reliability and cheaper service.Maybe BMW don't want big sales.
@@e36mmm how on Earth can you say so much shit to that poor lady? T chain failure at 60.000 km? Are you serious? This is a very serious design failure. What next? We'll throw away a car after the warranty expires?
@@e36mmm - What a load of BS! Just because you buy a small engined version doesn't mean it's ok for it to blow up! Idiot!
There is a decent reason to put the cam drive chain at the rear of the engine. By taking the chain from the load end of the crankshaft the torsional vibration load is reduced, giving more accurate valve timing.
But a stronger design might help.
Why on earth didn’t they use a duplex chain..
It might help if I could actually hear the goddam video!
Its a fully known common problem on all BMW owners forums, you'll google and see hundreds of the same cases. Some 50k miles some 150k miles. Some 3 years old some 6 years..etc.Its not just 1 series but all bmw's with the N47 engine. My first bmw i owned and it failed in 1 month of owning it. I am put off of BMW for life, i will never ever buy a BMW vehicle ever again whether has n47 engine or not. POOR QUALITY.
You got what you paid for !
diesel, four-cylinder with turbo is not true bmw engine, its downsize shit for EU and her co2 limits politics
Tomas Kato
6 cylinder diesel also brakes down. My friend had last year first e70 timing chain broke with 230 000 km, than his second x6 same engine 3.0 l 173 kw with 270 000km and this he told me to change timing chain before it brakes maybe 20 days before, and i didn't.
Last week my e61 525xd 2008 with 220k died on Autobahn and in service its fck timing chain. And i have x5 with same engine but more km on it, shit. I have to sell shit and buy some other brand but its all same shit, audi, mercedes also. I don't know what to buy that i dont have problems
There is no need to remove the engine to replace the timing chain, it´s done from underneath the car. The issue happens mostly with series 1 cars up to 2009. In 2009 BMW introduced modifications to the chain and parts, but still the chain needs to be replaced at about 100K miles or before if the car is not maintained well. Anyway, all timing chains should be replaced eventually in all cars.
Finally someone understands. There us no such thing as long life or unlimited on timing chains.
Ive replaced mine at 91k in 2014.
Now 2021 142k going strong. Oil change every 7k/8k.
0w-30 is crap its too thin makes the chain sound really bad. I stuck to 5w-30, but some use 5w-40.
My next chain replacement will be at 170k probably 2026 if i keep the car for long.
@@QuattroBajeena I think with more frequent oil changes, this chain should last longer, but most of the BMW customer, without wanting to insult anyone, are clueless when it comes to internal combustion engine and they think, that driving 25k miles between oil changes is ok
I have a 2009 N47 bmw which now has 401,000km on the odometer with original chain and can hardly hear any chain rattling. However as a precaution i want to replace it.
@@ndakandaka Good!. Even if it doesn´t break, it´s a good idea to replace it, since it´s still a mechanical part that gets streched out with its use, so it should be changed to keep the car´s original performance.
Good video,
Apart from the expensive and common timing chain problem on the N47 engine, of which I sadly now have personal experience of, BMW also has the oil leakage problem on almost all N47 engines I have seen, the oil consumption is up the wall, and BMW representatives just say " it's normal for this type of engine". BMW doesn't seem to be too concerned about this.
My personal opinion is to avoid 4 cylinder BMW's. And what says that newer engines should be any better than the N47?
our n47 did not need any oil at all. not 1 single ml for 30.000km till the next oilchange.
it's a shame, because the car is now history because of this chain
I wonder if 30,000 km is a good recommendation. Even though the oil hasn't degraded, the oil usually is full of grit after 10000 km, regardless car.
If your oil is full of grit you need to check your oil filter. If by full of grit you mean black, that is normal, oil will turn very dark after a few hundred miles.
Hi Nick,
By grit I meant small particles....the oil start to feel like potato powder after 10000 kms when you rub it between your finger tips....and
that's why I don't think that longer service intervals is any good, despite that the oil itself may still be in good order chemically.
Best to change the oil more frequently, like 10,000 miles or every year.
The anti skipping guides have failed in my 2010 118i and I am told there is now swarf in my engine oil. I am awaiting advice from BMW on the likely repair cost. Given that my 2005 model 320td experienced a swirl flap failure (causing the car to be written off) I will never purchase another BMW.
"Timing Chain, no Expensive timing belt changes" I love it when I see adverts for cars with this in the description........
Okay guys my bmw f10 2011 timing chain snapped and bmw paid 8k and I paid 2k towards repair, I had 130k on clock, happy with the result running nice and smooth.
Important! From 15 of January 2015 in Poland BMW announced product recall for cars with early 2.0 diesel engine: N47D20A (2007 and some 2008 cars). They are replacing chain tensioner and other parts if required.
also in Croatia
MR
Guys, do u have web link for this recall announcement pls? Living in Slovakia currently and I'm planninng to check whether it's applicaple to my 318d or not.
Ersin Ersoy
Hi,
Just call your nearest BMW dealer and give them your car VIN number.
MR BMW UK are acting very strangely. Asked me to book my car in for 'significant enhancement' (whaaat?) And in the same conversation said my mid 2008 N47 engine was not subject to recall. Won't explain why they changed their mind, BMW UK will not say what selection parameters are. All very odd. Trading standards out of scope. So - don't buy a BMW diesel!! Manufacturer is trying every trick in the book to avoid issues.
Wait, why was Dan driving to work with his children in the car?
Because is a fake story, just like the whole video
@@cathardy7186 Whole video? This chain issue with the N47 is widely known among BMW circles, doesn't take much looking in forums to see
BMW has dropped the ball on so many models. Have a google at N52 engine issues. This was my first and last BMW. Would never trust or recommend the brand to anyone again.
The same happened with my 118i (2007, 120k km, no garantee). No warning lights, neither before and after. Although a day before I heard some light metallic noise from the front, but I though maybe something around the brakes hitting that metal shield around it. (it was winter, and I was 400km from home in a motel, so I haven't investigated it further) But next day, the engine was at least -60PS weaker, the consumption was sky high (40l/100km), I barely could make it to the work (3-4km distance). Then came ADAC (german "yellow angel"). I told him the symptoms and he known it right away it is the timing chain. He removed the oil cap to make it sure, and it was. He said it will be €€€ to replace the chain. Few days after I have a call from the BMW service, that it can't be replaced and complete new engine is needed, as the lose chain damaged the engine. I read about it, that a new engine will be around €€€€€€ not to mention in Germany in an official BMW service it would be even higher. But after I imagined how I going to smashed the car with a huge hammer and lit it on fire, the service guy continued that the BMW admits this design failure and they will replace it free with a new factory 0km engine. I don't know if this is because I was in Bayern or in Germany, but I'm afraid if this would happened in a not so lucky country I would be doomed, big time. Nevertheless, I'm not a fond of gambling, so 1 year or so, and I will replace it with a Toyota.
So did the BMW gave you new engine?
@@Dom_czech no
Sorry to say this as a Bimmer tech, i fix bimmers for living but will not buy one for my self anymore. Most car makers make one mistake, maybe engine mistake or trans mistake etc, bimmer have problems in engine, trans sucks, timing sucks, cross over pipes sucks, valve seals are sucks and sooooo many other problems, stay away from BMW less you are doctor or lawyer.
+Jafar Akhmedov What do you think about the F10 5 series?
Twin turbo engines are fairly new and yet no one having major problems yet, but im sure its a ticking bomb that is wating to blow up some day. Just imagine when turbo goes out and the bmw building they will go out soon and imagine a price to buy a new turbo. For twin turbo engine its very slow car comparing to my 4.6is.
also the 1 series after 2012 or? How are the 2015 ones(new model)?
i am planning to buy e90, have few choices, 330d pre fl, 320i n43b20 engine, and 335i. or maybe bimmer with 335d engine... or 123d e87 (twin turbo n47)
My dudes, bmw is a great brand or at least was. Stay away from all Bmw’s in the last ten years. It’s all about the E34, E39, E36, E46 and the E38s are alright. I don’t know about diesels though. I live in the US. Basically stick to the early nineties to the mid two thousands petrol Bmw’s and you’ll be alright.
I've been driving and servicing my BMWs for over 12 years now had over dozen of them. Currently have 4 in my possession. Not one of them have given me an engine failure where it is catastrophic. Yes parts are designed to time out and preventative maintenance is crucial and expensive but never catastrophic like example above. However engine sizes are critical when choosing to own a BMW. Never own a small engined european car like BMW, audi or Mercedes. Yes they make engines as small as 1.5L 3 cyl engine but I never buy BMWs with engine capacity below 2.5L I6 because any engine size below is gutless, engine can have strain due to chassis weight and BMWs especially are known for their inline 6 technology. Not 4 cylinder! 4 of my BMWs vary from 2.5L, 2.7L, 3.0L and 3.2L not one of them in 10 years of ownership has given me headaches like what you see in the video. People buy entry model products thinking they will run like the premium versions but they won't. Hence why it's cheaper than the premium versions like 3, 5 and 7 series. Same with audi or mercedes. Never buy entry models and go for proper versions and you'll be okay. If you don't have the money to look after it, don't own one and buy a Toyota. Simple. Ps: the known issue above is rectified in MY11+
Ex-BMW customer from the UK. Car with the N53 engine had failures, spent nearly £ 1,000 on two trips to the garage to be told neither worked and they believed it needed another £ 3,500 worth of work. Discovered that in the USA this would have been covered even though it was out of standard warranty because the parts are notoriously unreliable. BMW UK don't care for customers who have religiously had their cars serviced at their dealerships.
Searching the internet I have discovered many of their engines have inherent problems, not just the N47 or N53 but many. Bimmerboost claim BMW just try to ensure the engines in the M3 / M4 last long enough to get out of warranty then leave the owners without support!
I will never buy BMW again.
i just suffered an engine failure on 2010 740il petrol, with 101500 km. if bmw do not cover the repair it is cheaper to sell the car for scarab (cost estimate is 20,000 usd). i knew about their reliability issues from repetition, but never found solid evidence such as this during my search. i now will make it my mission to let people know their design philosophy. you better light your money on fire instead of buying a bmw.
for compassion i have a Lexus ls 460 2007 with 250,000 km and the engine is in perfect condition. the biggest maintenance i did were injector cleaning.
falkhlaiwi what caused the engine failure?
the new models (2013 until today) have the same problem... :(
On n47 motor , you must change timing chain every 100k km and that's it , problem solved ! The engine have some problems from the factory but you can avoid that changing it every 100k km.
Problem ism that’s a lot of money since the chain is at the back of the damn engine
Alex, want to change my chain, i give you 30 pound
Change a cam belt £350 change bmw chain £1200
BMW are now doing a free recall on these engines. So next time your car needs servicing take it to a BMW dealership and they'll fix the timing chain free of charge (provided it hasn't already failed of course). This is for 2.0 diesels N47 engine from 2007-2011 models (1, 3 and 5 series). This has been the case since April 2015. If it's too late and engine has already failed, go onto the bimmer forums to find a reputable Independent BMW garage that rebuilds these engines. The cost can range from £1800 to £2500, if someone offers to fix it for less or more, stay away. The parts alone are £1200 before labour and VAT. If you need any more advice let me know, had the same problem and took 6 months to resolve. If you're planning to buy one, get a reputable warranty with BMW or warranty direct and do your homework before signing up.
Hi Simon, brought a 2nd hand 2012year 123D Automatic from a car dealer just under a month ago, only 43,000miles on the clock. Gonna upload a video with noise tomorrow, dealership which is non BMW has given me a 3 month warranty for any amount if anything goes wrong. Hoping to god it's not the timing chain though.
Hi. I rang BMW who denied this.
Simon Mignott
Hi. I rang BMW who said this was not true.
This type of mechanical issue is NOT a BMW problem, its a business problem repeating itself throughout the automotive environment. Ford, Chevy, Nissan, ect all have serious issues that creep up AFTER warranty. Parts materials are being skimped upon and the result is "its not a warranty problem." Way to many specific and repeatable examples to list.
There is a lot of shame going around in the business world and its often mistaken for cleverness and penny pinching.
accordingly to BMW maintenance data, the timing chain should not be replaced unless there is a problem in the system like a rattle. BMW always had some sort of issues with its engines. like the seals in the vanos system of the m54 engines, they were not design to withstand that kind of heat and would fail.
BMW`s M57T2 must be one of the best engines they ever made!!!? (fully aluminium, front mounted timing chain, variable vane turbo, piezo injectors, common rail,etc.) in the case of the x25d no swirl-flaps so this engine has no apparent weakness.
M57 was a great engine especially the TU2TOP (Twin Turbo ones) just make sure to delete the swirl flaps.
Just happened to my 520d 2010 model, car stopped in the middle of the road. The car has a mileage of less than 70k, and full service history. BMW agreed to pay partial cost of repair but still costed me over £1200 to repair. Gutted that such failure should happen at all!!
They should pay the full cost as it is due to their poor design and product
The earlier m47 engine never had this problem and was featured in the 2005 - 2006 e90 models I own a 2006 e90 320d and I would consider it to be bulletproof
Definitely
But that said the late n47 seem to be good
Iv been driving my 2008 118D now for nearly 100k and i only just heard about this failure today! Why don't garages say anything about this?
This makes me frightened even driving my car now...
there are n47 with 600 000 KM and no problems not all of them have problems
Zksay OK. Sure, there are SOME people who never drive over 50 mph. So what? In my mechanic's view, you cannot drive frequently on European motorways at average speeds with an N47 engine and not experience a breakdown. He cannot believe BMW has got away with this. Neither can I.
I'm so sorry to hear that Tom. There are people who do preventative conditioning of the motor (new sliders, chain and sprocket). My mechanic says that makes it as good as any of the other engines. He cannot believe BMW did not do a recall. How many people do not buy BMWs now because of this? A reputation is hard to make and easy to ruin - after the top dogs have milked their share, of course. He says shame on those who put our lives at risk.
Michael McGovern The car has been sold, and every garage, 2nd hand dealer or new dealer KNOWS about these problems so you only get very little back for these cars ...
I have 215 000 km and now problems yet, N47
All BMW's with 2.0 Diesel engines have this problem. BMW knows it but they don't recall free these cars. My new car will not be a BMW anymore.
Bull shit. Only N47
It is N47 idiot...learn to read first then talk....
Does the N46 engine have the same problem? (for the X3 2005-2006 year, petrol 2.0i)
ActualProx
M47 is bulletproof
Going to look at a 2006 reg 320d soon. Would all 05 and 06 e90s have had the older M47 from the e46? Did the n47 just appear in early 2007?
Honda all the way, best cars on the road for bulid quality and reliability
William Grant same goes with Toyota
Toyota uses bmw engine too . And that n47 diesel on some avensis and rav 4
Apart from rust
Same for us! No help. Full service. 149 000km. 2008. Never bmw again.
i dont understand why the build one engine to fail completely... is it worth the people who wont buy another one.. after 40 years of having bmw, we wont buy a new one anymore.. is this worth it? what a bunch of idiots.
+Axtschnitzel haha yeah. Our family is growing and we were planning to buy a new 5-serie soon. Now we bought an Audi instead.. bmw lost a lot more than the selfcost to repair our car and thats just the first of many we would have bought. Its trouly an old capitalistic way of handling this kind of matters. Even though they missed the long-way economic view. In our case they would have sold a new car the same day the old was repaired.
@@Axtschnitzel it seems years ago they over engineerd cars by (I'm guessing) about 70%.
So older cars could take quite a bit of punishment is; no/long oil changes.
Today(last 15/10yrs it seems Fkg accounts run BMW and they cheap out on the quality and materials.
Judging by the high amount of failures modern cars are no longer over engineerd more underegineered why?
Who knows
money?
If they fix just one BMW N47 timing chain they'll have to fix them all.
woah extremely specific channel 😲
Timing chain failure is common on M62 blocks as well, at least the chain is at the front.
note: the tech at 2:45 says the timing chain is designed to last the life time of the engine. he is correct. the entire car is designed to fail before 100k. I am a shop owner, I see it every day. I have worked as a dealer technician for a few brands. it is all brands, not just bmw
same happened to me with my bmw 320d 2012 with 133000 mileage chain belt snapped on m6 at 12:30 at night with my wife and kida on board it was terrible i will never trust bmw again i am moving to Japanese cars
S Lax listen, 100,000 miles is when a major service is meant to be done. Timing chains are like any other part, like the brake pads, have to be replaced. Going 133000 miles on one chain and then being surprised when a chain snaps? You're delusional.
Michael G you're completely wrong. Timing BELTS last around 60-120k km... chains usually outlast the car. I've had a mercedes benz which was at 550.000km on the original chain when I sold it and that's not a 1 off scenario, that's the way it's meant to be.
Also, it's usually not the chain which snaps, it's a sprocket which fails on the N47.
Elís Kjartansson absolutely not, chains stretch, ever heard of Audi/Volkswagen owners discuss chain rattle on diesels? That's the chain stretching past the point where the tensioner can compensate. Then they explode and destroy the engine. Also, you might be right about old mercs and old cars in general, the chains were different, they were thicker and stronger withless joints. Today they are meant to last 100000 miles to make the $$ on replacement parts. BMW make almost more money servicing their cars than selling them. And also, not replacing a chain after 500,000 miles is neglegance in my opinion. Cars lifetime ends when the chain does, so I guess that's why they say it's lifetime. I service my cars myself and maybe I'm a bit pedantic but I'd rather change them every 150000 miles than rely on the "assurance" that it's a quality component. Nothing lasts forever no matter what blabber the BMW sales manager tells you.
gabigowriel how exactly does modern technology effect chain strength? It's not like technology can magically make metal or the joints stronger. Look at a timing chain of an old BMW 5 series from before the 90s, then look at the timing chain in the video. New timing chains on modern engines are made so that they JUST about hold together so they explode as soon as you surpass the warranty or the change by date. It's thin, one layer and the joints are smaller and more brittle.
Michael G they don't change the timing chain on a major service you drip. Timing chains don't need to be replaced at 100k either you dum dum. They are checked as and when required. The guy is not delusional at all. This engine is just shite end of. I rebuild engines and this is just a shit design mistake.
I build these in the factory, I only build a N47 engine 2 or 3 times out of every 100 cars. Its by far the least popular of the 5 different engines we put together
Chris Porter 9
why is that?
trusted BMWs for long time, Since had exact same issue recently with a 2010 320D. no warnings, no indication. Sudden break down into engine seizure.
Hi, what was the mileage please?
what warning do you want to receive on a mechanical part? How often did you service the oil?
I love how everyone gives up on the Bmw brand, only the true enthusiasts survive in this game.😉
Enthusiasts? :))) More like f**ls who still find excuses because of their ego.
C G shut up silly goose
Does the updated 2010 and onward N47 engine with 184hp still has this problem or is it solved?
BrateTebra123 t.z. Streptomicin za muski rod n47, yes
There are cars with design flaws for sure but many timing chain jobs I’ve done were due to people not changing the oil frequently enough. Manufacturers recommend crazy intervals like 10,000 miles for an oil change. If you can’t afford to change your oil at least every 5,000 miles then you have no business buying a bmw or any European car for that matter.
Timing chains are preferred over timing belts because they should never need replacing and therefore last the duration of the vehicle. Timing gears are far better but are more expensive to mass produce, although Honda employed this idea on many of its motorcycles. If I was a BMW engineer, I would design the engine to have the timing chain at the front regardless, as my way of thinking would be," what if". I would be thinking of ever possible eventuality. Don't make them like they use to. :(
Theoretically it shouldn´t break, but with poor maintenance (oil changes), eventually it will. Anyway, even with good maintenance, the chain is a mechanical part that gets stretched out with its use and it´s a good idea to replace it to keep the engine performing as new.
I have got 2011 320d suffers from the same issue hopefully its getting done under warranty
Their previous Diesel engine was the M47, I've got a Rover 75 with the M47R, a Rover re-engineered version. I've had 7 of these cars without any problem and my latest 75 has the M47R with 225,000 miles on it.
A shame they upgraded it. Why diss a good thing?
My 118d is currently in the dealers having new timing chain tensioner and upper and lower timing chains installed, following a BMW recall notice. Seems they have now identified there is a problem, and are replacing the necessary parts in affected models, at no cost to the customer. My advice, if you have one of these models, check with your dealer.
Richard Parker is this which modal year.. my 118i got same issue today.. its 2007 model, 120000 miles done
+Jithin James mine is an 08 plate, with only 54000 miles on the clock. Had had no problems at all with it, but when I booked it in for its service they told me it was due the upgrade under the Quality Enhancement Program recall.
+Jithin James u have an 118i and thats not a n47 diesel!!! U dont have this problem! Your motor is a petrol! Just check your oil level! If the level is not right you will have chain problems!
Wow that is bad, putting the timing chain at the back of the engine is incredibly bad design! Who's idea was that?
That a rival for VWs emissions cheat software in terms of stupid car design! Older BMWs seem to last longer and be much better made and easier to work on too!
All cars were easier to work on 10-20 yrs ago, to varying degrees their a PITA now!
soundseeker63 probably this idea came from the ford 4.0L
They designed the engine that way because camchains used to last the life of the engine...little did they know...lol
I have 2 BMWs, and just bought another one (didn't arrive yet). First has the n47 engine, it runs fine so far but only 50k km, and the other is a 2008 z4 3.0 265ps n52 160k km . Oil filter gasket slightly leaking now, scheduled for replacement for 110$(equivalent). They are for sale now, first because of the n47 and the z because I want something built racetrack only like i.e. Westfield xtr2 although the z is very good.
I was going down the highway a few years ago in my old 94 Mazda pick-up. All of the sudden my engine died. I turns out my timing belt broke. My little 2.3l four cylinder was a non-interference engine as opposed to an interference engine. I was lucky. It was a few hundred dollars to have the belt replaced. If you have an interference engine and the timing chain literally breaks while running, the engine is pretty much toast. You need to be "religious" about regular oil / filter changes and don't abuse the engine. Here's a good definition from Wiki. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_engine
“Sudden loss of power” lol
More like complete destruction of engine and valves and metal shreds flying out of exhaust and seen rattling along the road.
Bent valves, excess damage beyond repairable by the owner, unless you’re a hgv mechanic ! Hahah
I've got a 123d 2008 and had a chain replacement couple years back, but it ran dry a little few month back after a oil leak now that's sorted I have a little rattle from the chain, been told might be worth trying to change the tensioner bolt that accessible from the outside, what do you think and where is it? Thanks mate good video
How much did it cost to replace the chain ?
Yesterday was driving on motorway 70mph, suddenly engine cut out, when stopped at the curb tried to start it, the sound was like starter just spins and no any noises from the engine, on the dash no engine management light etc, is it timing chain???? Its 2008 e91 320d
i got a N47 in my 2015 X3 28d. Any word if BMW updated the engine or does it still have this problem? Car only has 60k km.
No the issue was rectified in 2009 , however their has been cases of failure beyond that up to 2011. BMW did a "factory bodge " on all N47s built after this tightening the sprockets and chain. This on a cold morning gives harsh vibration from the engine , as i am well aware as my 2012 F10 is feels like a MK1 Transit in the morning !!
Should it matter if the vehicle has been serviced by a non BMW approved garage ? So long as no parts are not BMW for example if its just oil change filters then I see no reason a filter can affect the timing chain weakness. BMW are using this as an easy excuse.Come on #BMW accept that you go this part wrong. Be the bigger respectable car manufacturer you say you are.
Even if you do have everything done by BMW it seems they have decided to no longer offer a recall and that is quite shocking.
Honestly, they do a good job in marketing a shitty product. I'd suggest a merc or a lexus.
Got a 2nd hand bmw 116d(ed)/4cylinder and the timing chain is worn i think, because the engine maled rattling noises. It has now 130k km on it.
The error is due to contamination of the engine oil with fuel on the post injection time. Solution is remuved diesel particulate filter !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Manu - Yeah rubbish, nothing to do with post injection & the DPF (which is their to stop the crap getting into the air!), bad timing chain components design on the N47.
How is E90 straight six petrol engine? I hear always it is bulletproof. Is that the case?
i have a bmw 520 d 177 and today my timming chain failed ....66 000 km .... thank you bmw
Robert Ticuta what year ?
My 2006 Honda Civic Petrol automatic has done 211,000 miles I’m now on my third Battery and I’ve replaced the i-Shift clutch at 160,000 miles service at Honda main dealer for £450 and replaced the front suspension once I’ve been all around Europe in it and I’ve never broken down except a failed battery, I even started the car in Norway in -31 without an issue
The Vtec engine on my car is running like new
repaired loads of n47 chains no internal damage just snap the rockers and I normally take gearbox out leave engine in
Ashter Egg were are you located please
It is harder with removing only the gearbox?
Hi, does the break in the timing chain not affect the valves?
@@darrenpowell7225 did you find someone to fix yours?
does this affect the 2104 bmw 1 series 118d?
no but replace the chain beyond 120k miles or just get rid of the car and sell it.
part of the problem is the "long-life" oil. so they make the car difficult to repair by putting the chain at the back, tell you only change the oil every 2 years and then when it fails slightly out of warranty expect you to pay for it all. They're scamming people, nothing more to say.
It is shit design through and through. If it is lubrication problem, the journal on crankshaft and the oil ring on piston are gonna go long before a well speced chain have any sign of problem.
I am in shock ! I have this car and problem as well already !!!
The problem is bmw’s service interval is designed to delay all problems until just after the warranty period expires. 15k mike oil changes are ridiculous
How to avoid: Change oil every 5-6k miles
If buying second hand, having service history is helpful as you can see how often the car was serviced
Listen to the back of your engine regularly and try to determine wether it sounds rattly, if so, get something done SOONER rather than later.
Don’t buy these privately, it may end in disaster pretty quickly
Respect your engine (don’t work it hard in 1st gear every time you move off)
Just give it a general visual inspection every week or so, don’t be afraid to open the bonnet - you see people all the time who think they ‘don’t know anything about cars’ never checking under the bonnet, but some problems are quite easy to see even to someone who knows nothing about engines (ie. if there’s oil everywhere, you have a problem. Or if your engine has no coolant in the expansion tank, you might have a leak.) It’s simple stuff. Just be vigilante and you should avoid problems!
(This generally applies to all cars to be honest!)
buy an HDI 1,6 peugeot/citroen
I drive BMW 520 d (N47). the same thing happened to my car. Repairs cost me 4200 €. I was only at the BMW three days before for an inspection
get an HDI 1,6 peugeot. much much better engines and cheaper in parts and fuel
I own e38 735 IL from 1999, never had engine problem , 400000 km
You have burned the annual production of opec in gasoline 😂😂😂
how about the 2014 + 116d engine? Toyotas have now installed them in their Auris, Verso and Avensis engines!
Hey >> Same thing happened >> I have E60 520d 08plate 100k, I notice Gear slipping and some small engine sound, and my MOT is also due. Last Friday(08-May-2015) I booked service, MOT and complete engine check in BMW Heathrow London, Friday evening they called me and said I have Timing Chain Issue > I told them ok let me know the parts as I have Cairgaint 3years complete engine warranty> yesterday(Monday) I again called them > they said its gonna take time as full engine has o remove to fix. I afraid that it gonna cost me high and labor. Today(12-May-2015) I called them.. Guy named Harry told me I no need to buy any parts.. and BMW is going to pay for it and will take another 3 days to fix!! I was like ... Ohh whatttt ..... then I Google the issue and found your post... hope they will not charge me...
I Just seen in Wikipedia >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N47
(There is now a recall (15th January 2015) by BMW to replace the chain tensioner and, if required, the timing chain.)
I would be lucky if thy really do for free of charge.
I've got a 2000 model 328se. I was going to upgrade this year, and get a newer model. Not now, I'll stick with my old girl, 155000 miles on the clock, still going strong, can't believe she's only worth about £500 !!
I have a 2010 F10 520d and this has just happened to mine on 100k, still owe £6k on the car and dealerships not getting back to me. I thought BMW rectified this issue in 2009, obviously not as mine was September 2010 and it has not got the uprated tensioners which I will get on my reconditioned engine. I have loved BMW for years, owned a few but this is my last now. I NEVER expecteed this to happen to a well maintained car this new. What a F****** joke.
Stephen Cable how often did you change the oil?
I own one E91 318D and I just got the noise from the timing chain. My car is getting new timing chain and other parts around it, and this will fix the problem hopefully. But I wonder if this problem will come back later after the repair?
the timing chain got changed after 120 000km.
Odin Slåttvik yeah, unfortunately this problem returns again. I have the same car too and i changed the timing chain twice. So, good luck! If you don’t want another problems, sell the car and fuck bmw!😡
I have a 2008 BMW 520d and had to replace the engine 2 years ago. I dont trust BMW anymore.
BMW:
- Bring Me Women :)
- Bring More Worries :(
- Break My Wallet :(
like FIAT fix it Again tino
No?
HA HA HA
Sadly it’s totally worth it 💯😫
Buy more warranty
bmw x1. 53000.miles,one morning orange light,in two seconds red one and seized engine...amazing cars!!!
What's more amazing is that BMW haven't had to rectify this.
One can say BMW has improved the chain since many years 🤔... but it's not good enough for engine life cycle. 520d prod.date 2011.9 and 170tkm now I have that problem too. For an engine life about 150tkm it's actually perfect timed time chain. 😉
2009 330k first chain
Might be a stupid question but how can I check to see if a BMW has the N47 engine or are all 320d built with the N47?
Type your cars designation on google and n47 at the end if the wiki appears than you have an n47 engine,i have it to so basically we are timing belt buddies
+Novac Hi what do you mean by designation? I have a 320d is this the designation?
+faz7862 you have a n47 engine
+Daniel Santos you are correct,i wonder why youtube doesnt notify me when i get replies anymore :/
+faz7862 bmw also claim that the cars with the n47 after 2011 are less likely to have this problem
I own a 520d with N47 engine, my timing chain snap on the way to home... The cost to fix it is 1200-1500 pounds, depends of mechanic
That sucks, but 1200 actually sounds pretty cheap, guess it isn't a BMW garage?
Still common problem with the n47... Friend of mine changed the chain and everything timing related for about 1000€. Of course the engine was still running then so there wasnt any exess damage
And It will be fixed forever?
@@LorenzoClara97 I believe so yeah. The problem is caused by the tensioner where the chain eventually gets loose and starts rattling. Updated parts will fix it.
@@unuseableb what year model or N47 engine is ok?
It doesn't help that, for a given engine displacement, power output and reliability are generally inversely proportional. BMW seem to eek more and more power and torque out of these 2 litre diesels every few years; look at the results.
Oh shit, well I was looking at getting a '08/'09 123d next year as an upgrade. So what does everybody suggest instead? Has to be at least a 2.0 diesel (for economy) have at least 170bhp, roughly 250-300 ftlb of torque, 5 door, fun to drive, preferably cruise control or the option to fit as well, and lastly... reliable....... Fire away :)
I considered the same year Audi A3 2.0 tdi, a lot less power, but quality interior, bit less fun to drive but still good enough. Might get hate for this as well... but I kinda like the look of the Skoda Octavia Vrs 2.0 diesel, so yeah that sort of car that won't break down
Did you guys forget to upload the volume?!
the problem in the camshaft... in it there isn't the little hole for the oil passage... the oil arrive to the chain flowing inside the camshaft ! Opposite the pulley you must insert a plug to close the camshaft. and the oil will go out on the chain ;)
you are the inventor of this modify ;)*****
mi contatteresti su facebook per favore? scambierei volentieri 2 parole perchè vorrei prendere una bmw ma mi sto orientando su un mazda 6 per ovvi motivi di affidabilità.
colleague at work suffered this expensive failure; well over £2k to fix; poor fellah's stuck with it cos he can't afford another car for the time being; he hates that car!
From what i have seen, cars are built for the lease market now. Short term ownership.
Just put a 500eur deposit on a 2012bmw f10 msport 2.0d, should I be worried, she was first registered June 2012, have engine number but no idea of build date.Due to pay balance on Friday should I walk? Thanks
Did you bought the car ?
is this problem still present in the f30 and f20 models with the n47 engine?
oldschool rs fanatic yup, n47 mate
Dude my march 2011 built 320d had this issue.
from my research they half assed fixed it in 2009 and then properly fixed it in march 2011.
i caught mine before it failed because i heard the chain rattling. managed to get the Dell-Boy dealer to pay for it, plus a new flywheel for my troubles.
N46 engine here. Apart from a VVT motor fault at one point, flawless engine even at 240,000kms
What year ?
@@Digging-life 2005
Hello All, how critical is this issue timing chain issue ? And should it be dealt straight away . Advise would be much appreciated - thank you
H B did an analysis
If you go for BMW buy only 6 cylinder or 4cylinder but pre 2007 and don't worry about the mileage!