Thank you for this video. I have been thinking alot about this fix for cold start rattle and i think a lot of n47/n57 engines could have been saved by changing this tensioner. I changed mine last september and the rattle is gone completely.
For a diy repair this is a great solution if you just need the tensioner. Although I know why a garage would likely want to fit the full timing kit, because the customer expects a full warranty of the work and parts. Garages don’t want to risk doing it twice just to save other people cash. Great video, I’m sure it’ll save a lot of people a lot of money. 👍
Thanks for watching! 100% correct. Timing chains are an issue on N47 engines; it’s a well-known problem, unfortunately. What I've tried to show in this video is that, in many cases, the chain is still okay. By changing the tensioner, it will give some time for the owner to use the car, but the timing chain needs replacing eventually.
Thank You for this great video, it's a good and easier idea to try replace it tensioner first, i will try this. I like your videos and channel, its very helpful, i am subscribed.👍👌
Thanks for watching. Yes, unfortunately if the chain is stretched it needs replacing, as I’ve mentioned in the video. But replacing the tensioner is still worth trying as you’ve got nothing to lose, in my experience it has worked in many cases.
I got a car really really cheap because the garage said it needs a new chain kit and would cost alot to do so the guy sold it me quater the value of the car i done this and sorted the problem 2 years on its still running great
Just changed the tensioner only on a N47 bmw 1 series alongside usual oil and filter etc, completely eliminated the noise (was very noticeable) . Completely agree the tensioner is weak and short, the new one is strong and little bigger. Absolutely recommend doing this before getting the engine out. Some tips would be remove the scuttle, sway bar and the wires and vacuum pipe going across the top of the engine, then you can get a breaker bar in there easily. Was an hours work, well worth it.
By all accounts it's the plastic chain guides which break. The last decent engine BMW made was the M47. Good for 500k miles on original chain and guides
Thanks for watching. To demonstrate this properly, it would require oil pressure and the timing chain with the engine in rotation. Faulty one will fluctuate, while the good one is more steady.
Is it a good idea to take it out first and check if it is working before buying a new one ? I had timing chain 2 years ago but told it’s now rattling again ?
Thanks for watching! It’s not really possible to tell if it’s faulty or not by the look of it, tensioner works/or fails to work under oil pressure. What timing chain kit was used 2 years ago? Original or aftermarket?
@@kirilakmadjov8307all newer cars with chains can have a faulty tensioner, even the Mercedes OM651 and OM642 have issues with the tensioners so do the VAG 3.0d V6s
I'm puzzled as to what you're trying to say nobody is suggesting not replacing everything whilst accessing the chain for replacement also the 2 litre BMW diesel very very very definitely suffer tensioner problems especially those without regular oil change@@kirilakmadjov8307
I'm puzzled as to what you're trying to say nobody is suggesting not replacing everything whilst accessing the chain for replacement also the 2 litre BMW diesel very very very definitely suffer tensioner problems especially those without regular oil change
@@W15Garage hmmm makes you wonder how many garages or main dealers that have known this and charged a thousand instead of 70 pounds? Respect for letting people know 5*
If you don’t rotate the engine while the tensioner is out, it’s safe. If you think there’s the risk of any kind of rotation, you can lock the flywheel, but I’ve done it on several occasions without locking it.
On the n47 is the external tensioner for the cam chain only, the main chain is all internal and the tensioner is inside the cover? I thought it was the main chain that had the issues
Thanks for watching. The middle chain(main chain) has internal tensioner and it’s thicker than the upper cam chain. Upper one is the weaker one out of the two, and the upper tensioner is also the trouble maker… over time looses oil pressure, causing rattling while the chain is still ok. But as I’ve mentioned in the video, in many cases the timing chain itself is stretched, and needs replaced.
@@crustybmw No one could guarantee that this issue will never happen, lol. If you fit a new tensioner and it cures the noise then at the least you would have bought some more time with the current chains. If the chains aren't stretched at all when you changed the tensioner, then they'd likely last many 10s of thousands of miles.
I had the rattle and i decided to change the whole kit OE. Its waaaay to risky and expensive if it snaps !!! 250k KM was enough, the chain guides are plastic. My problem was the tensioner indeed but i didnt risk it by changing only the tensioner
Just fitted a new top tensioner to my 2010 330d (N57) with ~145k miles (FSH, factory intervals which is ~2yrs/15 miles), sadly it didn't fix it, so I'm going to have to replace the chains and guides 🙁. The old tensioner was knackered though (it was 27mm head btw), it didn't spring out much and I couldn't push the piston in just using my finger and thumb (whereas I could with the new one). Perhaps the guides have got damaged as a result? FWIW, my car only makes a modest rhythmic scrapping noise when the engine is hot (fully warmed up), and I could only hear it with the door open revving the engine to ~2k RPM (stationary obviously, lol).
If it didn’t spring out, unfortunately it means that the chain is stretched, and the tensioner was fully extended to follow and try to keep the chain tensioned. As I mentioned in the video, unfortunately tensioner is not always the problem. N47 does suffer from timing chain issues. I would recommend replacing the timing chain ASAP before it snaps and causes further expenses in repair.
@@W15Garage Did you mean N57? Yes I know and remembered that you said a new tensioner wouldn't always fix it, I didn't say otherwise😉 I've already decided to replace the chains (I've already got timing tool kit), not sure I will go for the OEM chains etc atm (depends on price, hopefully find out tomorrow). I just need to re-watch your video about what parts are needed [edit] Was it you that made that? I can't find it...... I didn't mention it last time, but after trying a new tensioner, and it not fixing the noise, I stopped driving. Driving my (supposed to be a weekend car) 08 M3 atm, which is good fun, but using double the fuel!😬 Btw, what made you decide to do it engine out method? (which I think I'll do it that way) Apologies if I've already asked you that, lol.
@@Assimilator1 n57 chains only last a bit longer than n47 because the additional 2.5liters of oil, the engine holds. More oil will withstand better the long ugly oil intervals than the 5.2liter in the n47, but eventually the n57 chains will wear out too. If it’s automatic and 4x4 I always remove the engine. Small n47 with a manual gearbox, it’s ok on the car-easy job. But n57 is a big unit, I would remove it.
Thanks for watching. Original guides don’t break up. Aftermarket cheap guides start to fall apart, clogging the pickup tube, but if you’re filtering the oil you’re draining at the oil change, you can detect that as well.
It is relevant yes, my Mercedes CLS OM642 engine had this issue, cold start rattle…new tensioner fixed the issue, till this day it’s spot on. 😄 I’ve lost count, I would say between 25-30. Still a long way to go till 100 😃
@@W15Garage Ah a fair amount then 🙂, roughly how many would you say of the N47/57 engines you've done which have been fixed by just a new tensioner? Btw, my 2010 330d has an engine rattle (gotta confirm with some former work mates at BMW, might also post you a link to a video I took😉), ~145k miles.
@@Assimilator1 all depends on maintenance, I’ve had a 2012 f25 x3 2.0d at 178000 miles the original timing chain had the same length as the new one i replaced with not 1mm stretch, BUT it was rattling slightly. On the other hand f20 1 series at 91000 miles, chain was completely stretched. I can t confirm exact data just yet. My mercedes cls 320 om642 engine had a strong rattle in the morning. Timing chain being in the front through the oil filler cap I could see the tensioner. Over night it went soft and retracted causing the rattle. After replacement it’s spot on. This got me thinking about bmw n47 57 chain rattling+a lot of rattling bmw chains measuring the exact same length as the new one i was installing
@@W15Garage So roughly how many would you say have been fixed by just a tensioner? Interesting thing I've noticed on my car, I only get the rattle (well, more like a zee-zee-zee noise) once it's warmed up. Have you found that before?
If the rattle is still there, timing chain needs to be replaced ASAP. In your case the tensioner wasn’t faulty. I would advise replacing it before it snaps, and you can reuse the tensioner you’ve just replaced.
Maybe you’ve had an aftermarket tensioner on the car. I ve seen that before, or the new tensioner is an upgraded version, it has no impact on the job, just torque it down correctly.
New tensioner installed bought from BMW & new tensioner was a tiny bit longer all fitted & torqued to 70 nm sounds much smoother thanks for the advice 👍
@@W15Garage l have got g20 b47 on 94000miles no problems at the moment not sure if l should change the kit before it starts making problems any signs l should look at before it snaps?
It’s still low milage in your case, make sure oil is changed regularly around 8k. Before it snaps it rattles. I’ve seen 178.000miles car on the original chain. Oil change is the key.
All te chains I have replaced have been because the crankshaft sprocket is too soft and the teeth wear so I doubt very much your solution would work at all this is a known fault
Thanks for watching. In this case a new chain kit is pointless as well?! Yet many engines are on the 2nd or even 3rd set of chain without the crankshaft being replaced.
Thank you for this video. I have been thinking alot about this fix for cold start rattle and i think a lot of n47/n57 engines could have been saved by changing this tensioner. I changed mine last september and the rattle is gone completely.
Thanks for watching! I’m glad it’s working for others too. Best part, there is nothing to lose, but a lot to gain😊 All the best!
Great video, well explained and well filmed and edited. Thank you! 👍🙏
Many thanks! 🙏
Great video. No bullshit, straight to the point
Thank for watching! Apreciate it!!
Excellent video, keep up the good work!
Thanks appreciate it!
For a diy repair this is a great solution if you just need the tensioner. Although I know why a garage would likely want to fit the full timing kit, because the customer expects a full warranty of the work and parts. Garages don’t want to risk doing it twice just to save other people cash. Great video, I’m sure it’ll save a lot of people a lot of money. 👍
Thanks for watching! 100% correct. Timing chains are an issue on N47 engines; it’s a well-known problem, unfortunately. What I've tried to show in this video is that, in many cases, the chain is still okay. By changing the tensioner, it will give some time for the owner to use the car, but the timing chain needs replacing eventually.
great info keep up the good work
Appreciate it, thanks for watching!
So helpful and informative video
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the tips
Thanks for watching!
Thank You for this great video, it's a good and easier idea to try replace it tensioner first, i will try this. I like your videos and channel, its very helpful, i am subscribed.👍👌
Thanks for watching! Appreciate your comment!
Good mechanic 🙂👍
Thanks for watching! Appreciate your comment!
Depends in which state of wear is the timing chain, sometimes they just reduce the rattle sometimes you won't notice difference
Thanks for watching. Yes, unfortunately if the chain is stretched it needs replacing, as I’ve mentioned in the video. But replacing the tensioner is still worth trying as you’ve got nothing to lose, in my experience it has worked in many cases.
I got a car really really cheap because the garage said it needs a new chain kit and would cost alot to do so the guy sold it me quater the value of the car i done this and sorted the problem 2 years on its still running great
That’s what I like to hear😄! All the best.
Hi, thanks for the video. where is your garage?
Well done
Thanks!
Just changed the tensioner only on a N47 bmw 1 series alongside usual oil and filter etc, completely eliminated the noise (was very noticeable) . Completely agree the tensioner is weak and short, the new one is strong and little bigger. Absolutely recommend doing this before getting the engine out. Some tips would be remove the scuttle, sway bar and the wires and vacuum pipe going across the top of the engine, then you can get a breaker bar in there easily. Was an hours work, well worth it.
Thanks for watching! I m glad it worked for you as well. All the best
How to remuve that do you have a video ?
I m glad it worked out for you!
Great vid. Do you need to lock anything in place ?
Thanks for watching! Valid question! No special tools required, timing doesn’t need to be locked. 70Nm final torque and good to go.
A good practice is removing the plastics where the cabin filter is located. Makes better space, being that it's limited on 1 series / X1. Great video
Good point, that way it’s easier to reach the tensioner!
By all accounts it's the plastic chain guides which break.
The last decent engine BMW made was the M47.
Good for 500k miles on original chain and guides
Thanks for watching! The M47 indeed was a good engine
Good video, do you have a failed tensioner to show for comparison?.
Thanks for watching. To demonstrate this properly, it would require oil pressure and the timing chain with the engine in rotation. Faulty one will fluctuate, while the good one is more steady.
@@W15Garage thanks for your reply,do the tensioners feel the same out of the engine?.
Is it a good idea to take it out first and check if it is working before buying a new one ?
I had timing chain 2 years ago but told it’s now rattling again ?
Thanks for watching! It’s not really possible to tell if it’s faulty or not by the look of it, tensioner works/or fails to work under oil pressure. What timing chain kit was used 2 years ago? Original or aftermarket?
Good tip I wonder how many thousands of pounds have been spent unnecessarily replacing chains when it may have just been a weak tensioner 😵💫
Thanks for watching! It’s worth a try, from experience I can confirm it sorted out a lot of noisy chains
I dont think anyone replacing a chain on the back of the engine is replacing just the chain plus 2.0diesels dont suffer from chain tensioner problems
@@kirilakmadjov8307all newer cars with chains can have a faulty tensioner, even the Mercedes OM651 and OM642 have issues with the tensioners so do the VAG 3.0d V6s
I'm puzzled as to what you're trying to say nobody is suggesting not replacing everything whilst accessing the chain for replacement also the 2 litre BMW diesel very very very definitely suffer tensioner problems especially those without regular oil change@@kirilakmadjov8307
I'm puzzled as to what you're trying to say nobody is suggesting not replacing everything whilst accessing the chain for replacement also the 2 litre BMW diesel very very very definitely suffer tensioner problems especially those without regular oil change
would this work on golf 1.4 tsi engine and mazda 2.2 diesel engine? both renowned for same problem?
Hi, thanks for watching! It’s worth a try, on my 2006 Mercedes CLS 320CDI V6 diesel it sorted the rattle as well.
@@W15Garage hmmm makes you wonder how many garages or main dealers that
have known this and charged a thousand instead of 70 pounds? Respect for letting people know 5*
👍🏻
Thanks for watching!
Do u need to put new tentioner in oil atall before installing ?
No, it’s crucial not to put in any oil
I’ve been told that the components need to be locked in order to do this?
How true is this?
If you don’t rotate the engine while the tensioner is out, it’s safe. If you think there’s the risk of any kind of rotation, you can lock the flywheel, but I’ve done it on several occasions without locking it.
On the n47 is the external tensioner for the cam chain only, the main chain is all internal and the tensioner is inside the cover? I thought it was the main chain that had the issues
Thanks for watching. The middle chain(main chain) has internal tensioner and it’s thicker than the upper cam chain. Upper one is the weaker one out of the two, and the upper tensioner is also the trouble maker… over time looses oil pressure, causing rattling while the chain is still ok. But as I’ve mentioned in the video, in many cases the timing chain itself is stretched, and needs replaced.
@@W15Garage Ok so if I buy one and I change the tensioner preventatively and do very regular oil changes will this issue not happen?
@@crustybmw No one could guarantee that this issue will never happen, lol. If you fit a new tensioner and it cures the noise then at the least you would have bought some more time with the current chains. If the chains aren't stretched at all when you changed the tensioner, then they'd likely last many 10s of thousands of miles.
I had the rattle and i decided to change the whole kit OE. Its waaaay to risky and expensive if it snaps !!! 250k KM was enough, the chain guides are plastic. My problem was the tensioner indeed but i didnt risk it by changing only the tensioner
Thanks for watching!
Not risky if it doesn't rattle, if the chain stretched at a later point you'd hear the rattle again, then you would do the whole monty.
@@Assimilator1 Agreed 👍
Just fitted a new top tensioner to my 2010 330d (N57) with ~145k miles (FSH, factory intervals which is ~2yrs/15 miles), sadly it didn't fix it, so I'm going to have to replace the chains and guides 🙁.
The old tensioner was knackered though (it was 27mm head btw), it didn't spring out much and I couldn't push the piston in just using my finger and thumb (whereas I could with the new one). Perhaps the guides have got damaged as a result?
FWIW, my car only makes a modest rhythmic scrapping noise when the engine is hot (fully warmed up), and I could only hear it with the door open revving the engine to ~2k RPM (stationary obviously, lol).
If it didn’t spring out, unfortunately it means that the chain is stretched, and the tensioner was fully extended to follow and try to keep the chain tensioned. As I mentioned in the video, unfortunately tensioner is not always the problem. N47 does suffer from timing chain issues. I would recommend replacing the timing chain ASAP before it snaps and causes further expenses in repair.
@@W15Garage Did you mean N57? Yes I know and remembered that you said a new tensioner wouldn't always fix it, I didn't say otherwise😉
I've already decided to replace the chains (I've already got timing tool kit), not sure I will go for the OEM chains etc atm (depends on price, hopefully find out tomorrow). I just need to re-watch your video about what parts are needed [edit] Was it you that made that? I can't find it......
I didn't mention it last time, but after trying a new tensioner, and it not fixing the noise, I stopped driving. Driving my (supposed to be a weekend car) 08 M3 atm, which is good fun, but using double the fuel!😬
Btw, what made you decide to do it engine out method? (which I think I'll do it that way) Apologies if I've already asked you that, lol.
@@Assimilator1 n57 n47 same issue, unfortunately applies for both variants
@@W15Garage Yea roger that, although I hear it's less common with the N57. Btw, did you see my question about which method to get to the chain?
@@Assimilator1 n57 chains only last a bit longer than n47 because the additional 2.5liters of oil, the engine holds. More oil will withstand better the long ugly oil intervals than the 5.2liter in the n47, but eventually the n57 chains will wear out too. If it’s automatic and 4x4 I always remove the engine. Small n47 with a manual gearbox, it’s ok on the car-easy job. But n57 is a big unit, I would remove it.
Does this work on 320d e90 n47 engine 2011 ?
Thanks for watching. Yes e90 has the same N47D20C engine
What about the guides breaking up ?
Thanks for watching. Original guides don’t break up. Aftermarket cheap guides start to fall apart, clogging the pickup tube, but if you’re filtering the oil you’re draining at the oil change, you can detect that as well.
Isn't this relevant to the N57 and e9x series too?
How many N47/57 timing chains have you done btw?
It is relevant yes, my Mercedes CLS OM642 engine had this issue, cold start rattle…new tensioner fixed the issue, till this day it’s spot on. 😄 I’ve lost count, I would say between 25-30. Still a long way to go till 100 😃
@@W15Garage Ah a fair amount then 🙂, roughly how many would you say of the N47/57 engines you've done which have been fixed by just a new tensioner?
Btw, my 2010 330d has an engine rattle (gotta confirm with some former work mates at BMW, might also post you a link to a video I took😉), ~145k miles.
@@Assimilator1 all depends on maintenance, I’ve had a 2012 f25 x3 2.0d at 178000 miles the original timing chain had the same length as the new one i replaced with not 1mm stretch, BUT it was rattling slightly. On the other hand f20 1 series at 91000 miles, chain was completely stretched. I can t confirm exact data just yet. My mercedes cls 320 om642 engine had a strong rattle in the morning. Timing chain being in the front through the oil filler cap I could see the tensioner. Over night it went soft and retracted causing the rattle. After replacement it’s spot on. This got me thinking about bmw n47 57 chain rattling+a lot of rattling bmw chains measuring the exact same length as the new one i was installing
@@W15Garage ah ok, I was just wondering roughly what proportion of the N47/57 rattlers you did were fixed with just a tensioner? 🙂
@@W15Garage So roughly how many would you say have been fixed by just a tensioner?
Interesting thing I've noticed on my car, I only get the rattle (well, more like a zee-zee-zee noise) once it's warmed up. Have you found that before?
What BMW engine is that? Can I do it on the BMW N20 engine?
N47 diesel. Yes, it’s worth trying it. My 2006 Mercedes CLS 320CDI had a cold start rattling, a new tensioner sorted the problem.
So if the timing chain is stretched, couldn't I just remove the washer??😁
😁 you have a good point here, in theory it would work, only the oil leak would cause problems.
Changed mine yesterday still have a small rattle at low revs any ideas?
If the rattle is still there, timing chain needs to be replaced ASAP. In your case the tensioner wasn’t faulty. I would advise replacing it before it snaps, and you can reuse the tensioner you’ve just replaced.
Why is the tentioner head bigger then 24mm on the car & the new tentioner I got is 24mm head, defo right bolt just find it strange ?
27mm, new tensioner 24mm head
Maybe you’ve had an aftermarket tensioner on the car. I ve seen that before, or the new tensioner is an upgraded version, it has no impact on the job, just torque it down correctly.
New tensioner installed bought from BMW & new tensioner was a tiny bit longer all fitted & torqued to 70 nm sounds much smoother thanks for the advice 👍
How much wd u charge for a chain replacement on a 2012 vw 1.4tsi engine..?
Hi. Thanks for watching! I’m only a hobbyist so not set up to take on any clients at the moment, sorry!
How about g20 b47 engines do they have timing chain problems?
I’ve seen stretched b47 chains on f30 facelift, also b37 in mini. Didn’t owned g20 model yet
@@W15Garage l have got g20 b47 on 94000miles no problems at the moment not sure if l should change the kit before it starts making problems any signs l should look at before it snaps?
It’s still low milage in your case, make sure oil is changed regularly around 8k. Before it snaps it rattles. I’ve seen 178.000miles car on the original chain. Oil change is the key.
@@W15Garage thanks all the best👍
Is this definitely an oil fed tensioner?
Thanks for watching. Upper chain tensioner OEM part number 11 31 8 490 219
I meant it looks spring tensioned, I couldn't see an oil passage/hole
Could be wrong though
@@marcwebb687 Spring is just for when there's no oil pressure, as in at start up. Once oil pressure is built up, that is what pushes the piston out.
@@W15Garage Did you say in the video you were going to put the part number in the description? Or did I imagine that? 😉
@@Assimilator1 11 31 8 490 219 I will add it to the description now.
❤❤❤❤😮😅!
Thanks for watching!
How is that easy to remuve ?
It’s not that difficult really. A few basic tools and patience.
You should be jailed
Thanks for watching!
All te chains I have replaced have been because the crankshaft sprocket is too soft and the teeth wear so I doubt very much your solution would work at all this is a known fault
Thanks for watching. In this case a new chain kit is pointless as well?! Yet many engines are on the 2nd or even 3rd set of chain without the crankshaft being replaced.