See, that's how advertising should be done. Irene's acting skills were so convincing, I almost believed for one second that I wanted some stretch fabric, elastic waist, comfort fit, ugly trousers just like Harstem's (but obviously much much shorter, because I'm not a giant) before common sense snapped me back to reality with the realisation that even my own wife wouldn't sleep with me if I did that.
@@ghosthunter0950 He might be a centaur, just like Tasteless and Artosis We never get to see his lower half when he's playing (the one on the ad is a stunt double)
The video of Harstem with pants on is clearly AI generated. You can tell by the way the pixels are. And also by the fact that Harstem is wearing pants.
@@ThueJanusKristensen A.I. generation is most commonly identified by mistakes in logic. Key points to identify include the number and orientation of fingers, the hair, and the fact that Harstem does not wear pants.
I wanted to point out that Hackerinos spotted the zealots with his viking a minute or so before Harstem pointed out how weird it was that he found them. So that move at least seemed legit.
Agreed. I don't think Hackerinos is a cheater. He's just a typical bad mech terran who's only skill seems to be spotting obs shimmers in the game graphics. He also occasionally remembers that toss opponents will try to do small prism/zealot attacks to distract and lure the slow mech army out of position, in order to then target one of the outside terran bases with their main toss army. This is why he immediately runs back with his army after clearing up the first few zealot pushes into his main and natural. Still, Killa absolutely carved him up like a prime steak in this game, gg wp!
@@aquilegia9734 Yeah, I think I agree with the army movement. He seemed to be paranoid of prism harass. Also I was thinking about it but the Viking spotting the zealots also explains why he was microing it so much, he knew there had to be a prism flying around, as how else would the zealots be there, so he was looking for it
SimpleOne here, thanks for reviewing my game! It's really weird how obvious the cheating was in hindsight. Also I was aware that this wasn't my best performance, but man, do I suck 😅
@@trufflepudding4704 Cheating in SC is extraordinarily rare bro, selling your laptop because there is a 0.1% chance of encountering a cheater does not make sense, on top due to the skillgaps in sc will a objectively better player still win a good majority or have the gut feeling something was off like Simpleone felt. Most players wont be able to capitalize andor are easily caught when reviewing the replay, i know how you feel but this aint counterstrike
Did you win? I wanted to see the ending :D. You were doing very well given that the dude was extremely likely to be hacking, don't be too hard on yourself.
OK what cinches the last guy being a hacker for me is what you see at 27:34 - the Observer is hanging out in anti-f2 mode and the hacker scans the exact spot where the obs is. Hits the cloaked unit dead center with it.
This happens again at 22:20 - the single viking is positioned and the scan is placed EXACTLY on the observer. Do maphacks reveal invisible units as well? I mean, once is a coincidence, by two perfect scans centered on the observer?
@@MathBar there is a shimmer in the graphics when there's a cloaked unit. hard to spot, but visible if you move the camera. I dont think the guy is cheating he's 1. really bad (about as bad as I am lol) 2. gets lucky few times 3. has good eye to shimmers from observers.
That's actually pretty interesting, I never once even suspected an opponent of maphacking but with thousands of games it seems quite likely to have happened at least once.
The only time I've ever been *sure* an opponent was maphacking was when the guy started sending me unsolicited critique of my build order. Which was a bit weird, given that he didn't have vision of *any* part of my build.
The reason you make those depots is because you want it to look like that's what you were going to do and thats how you knew the attack was coming. Ex-map hacker. A lot of map hacking (To not get caught) is looking like you're trash on purpose but making the right calls directly afterwards. You work reactively instead of proactively. No need to scout ever if you see things moving on the minimap. The second he started putting those depots down and canceled them immediately ANDDD selected all those workers to move them instantly, having shown a sheer lack of speed in move commanding things is just evidence enough to me that he was cheating. It follows no logic. He hasn't been quick to do anything all game and somehow suddenly, he canceled both depots, selects all of those workers, lifts his command center, moves his army all at once? Nah I dont buy it.
The stalkers were in vision when he was queuing them, and he cancelled them also in vision. He might not be fast at reacting at the map but okay at reacting at things on screen (like me)
@@assault410 I didn't say he was good. Also, sometimes, to appear as if you're not cheating, you'd sacrifice things. Obviously, if he is cheating, which I am sure he is, he seems like he knows what watching replays in FP view looks like and is trying to make it hard to tell he's cheating.
@@kurt7937 Yea, that was long ago though. It was in broodwars before sc2 was even announced. I was in a group that had no idea I was maphacking and mineral glitching. I was youngggg back then and wanted people to respect me. It wasn't worth the time because when I went to sc2, I sucked real bad and had to relearn how to play. Stuck in bronze then worked my way to plat. If I had just played legit I'd never have had that many issues.
When a low level player is literally spotting every observer despite having no map awareness at all I think that's worth noting too. Definitely would help the analysis to remember that hackers are not very bright and make terrible decisions constantly.
And just because he has vision doesn’t mean he’s actually looking at the minimap. His movements are only sus when nothing else is going on. Once his attention is elsewhere he’s immediately overwhelmed. This ain’t rank roulette, but this dude is def punching above his weight
This guy ain't mech-turtling right, no turrets guarding the main and the natural expo (did he ever build them ??), also no sensor towers as mentioned by Harstem, that's kinda sus if you ask me
The logic of the depo's was simple if you try to think like a moron, to wall and stall for time as his army was out of position but as he is a stupid hacker he started his masterplan when it was already way to late. Harstem assumes these script kiddie hackers are gonna acct like giga brain pros hacking when in fact they cheat to compensate for the fact that they suck. Map hack does not give you multitasking, micro or macro skills it gives unfair situational awareness but not the skill to utilize it.
Point is he changes his mind once information shows up on his player view multiple times throughout the game so either he is toggling or trying to meta check spectators.
Look at the camera movement in the end, where Harstem thinks he isn’t looking sus. He pans the camera BEFORE the army shows up TWICE. I think he maybe turned MH off or something for a while. Nice to see you crushed him anyway.
I disagree, based on that moment in the end. He was caught by zealots while right-clicking pylon? It's a finale, zealots are 5 tiles away from him, and he couldn't react in time... Where was he looking at?)
Im a programmer, and know a little bit how hacks work, and how they get around detection. The anticheat warden doesnt run all the time, it does periodic checks of the memory. The not as good hacks will detect when warden is doing the check, and disable the hack momentarily until warden is finished, and then reenable when its done. The best hacks will completely fudge the data warden collects, so it never has to turn off. I think that last game may have been a perfect example of the not as good hack.
From a cheat perspective I think it's easier to disable the warden if you figure out the entry point than to disable your own cheat, right? It's just adding an early return. Else you need to somehow figure out when warden is running etc
I'm sitting on 95% sure for hackerinos and it's mostly the way the Viking tracked the Prism. Mirrored movement, excessive focus/clicking, out of vision, all while there's an active threat to respond to. In fact, with how much focus he devotes to defending against drops, it's impressive he never builds a Sensor Tower.... or a turret.
To me it was hackerinos retreating his entire thor army back to base disengaging an advantageous chase to defend from a zealot runby he had no vision of yet.
That alone wouldn't be conclusive for me, we have to look at other examples where he moves the viking into that deadzone. If he ever spam clicks when there's nothing there then it could just be something he does. I think he's a hacker that' bad at the game. Like the reaper early wasn't a fake scout, but an actual attempt to harass
@@DudethatGross My issue with this rebuttal is that you can apply this to almost any hacker. You can take the most egregious fog-of-war peeker and they're still going to make moves that don't align with the information they should have.
There were also too many times he scanned directly on top of an observer. Sure there was the one time he reasonably should have known it was there, but there were two other quite random times where the observer was dead center.
I think a general rule that is often true in these cases is if you are above 5k MMR and you don't scout, you are automatically either a hacker or a very weird person.
Could make sense if he only scans after seeing the shimmer, but never scanning otherwise on top of never building a Sensor Tower or Turret despite the constant drops? Definitely hacker.
@@fluffyfang4213 the observers weren't moving before or during the scan what shimmer ? And at least 2 of them were out of sight before moving towards them and scanning for them.... Also the scan of the initial observer, Harstem argument that it makes sense because those stalkers were shooting up the ramp hence must be an observer would hold if he scanned immediately after deflecting the attack but he didn't he scanned a minute later exactly on top of the thing ....
@@euLIRIC Observers shimmer even without moving. There was a recent update that greatly increased their visibility while invisible by making them bigger and making their idle animation faster.
The issue with Hackerinos is that it's full of moments that look like obvious hacks, and also full of moments that look like it's impossible any hacker would play that way.
Harstem doesn't seem to understand that lower-level players, even just under GM, don't have the mental APM to look at mini map constantly, even if they have no fog of war. All the times they didn't notice something and it "seemed odd" can simply be explained by they were paying attention to something else and didn't even look at the mini map. I get at the professional level that seems unheard of and "crazy" but everyone below that just isn't able to keep up, even when relatively noting is happening.
One thing worth bearing in mind for the second game, with the viking/prism behaviour, and the zealots in the mineral line afterwards, is that I find lower elo players tend to hyperfocus on small things (because that's what pro players do) while throwing the bigger picture out of the window (not what pro players do). It wouldn't surprise me at all if the prism/zealots were the only thing on his mind at that point, and the massive fight happening outside the front of his base was an afterthought. Same with the unsieging of the tanks only to move them into a worse spot; how many games of iodis have we seen where players perform negative micro?
Regarding second games, it's common for dropships to hug the edge of the map to avoid overlord when you're dropping. That said, the fact that he didn't scout at all is kind of stupid. I haven't done that since my early days in the silver league.
Just really started watching your channel as I have bounced around to the other guys. I have to say; that ad at the start is amazing, like… too good. Well done sir.
At 23:32, terran sees the zealots just afk'ing. They're not moving with the protoss army, so they're gonna be coming back in a prism. The only really suspicious thing is the viking movement. terran has already been hit twice by prisms in that same spot and he knows there are zealots there. You can't give someone credit for hugging the edge of the map with a medivac and then blame someone for checking the edge of the map with a viking when he knows an attack is coming from exactly there.
I think the zealot find on the 2nd game didn't seem too suspicious. He saw them with the banshee and viking earlier so makes sense to think there might still be zealots in the area
3rd Replay: Re: Zealot Find east of Main Base. You see the Zealots running around there when his Viking is chasing after the Warp Prism. He reasonably could've known they were there. I'm more convinced he is a hacker by virtue of how poorly several of his decisions were for him to be in that MMR range. But it could've just been a bad matchup.
38:00 find on the zealots: they have been spottet before! see 25:59 / 25:36 since he shot the warpprism the zealots must still be there. Also the calling the forces back after the move-out ... could just be that he is a typical terrain turtle and too afraid to walk across the map, especially since there had been 2 run by's before from the top...
To me, the fast worker pull at the fourth with no other worker pulls all game, the unit movement to the fourth before the zealots were spotted and watching the fourth beforehand, the Viking movement and attacking idling zealots archon prism out of vision on the left were all Uber suspicious for such a low apm seeming mech Terran. It’s all circumstantial though, and being in position between the natural and third for most the game doesn’t really prove much. I agree another game is needed. I also would guess the tanks remaining unsieged in moveouts and late walls/responses are more a testament to skill level and playstyle than innocence and more likely to happen again than one might assume whether they are cheating or not.
I think even the suspicious moments in that last game could have a legit explanation. The weirdness at the 4th: he was already focussed on expanding in that area and when the attack started he had no army there to micro, so he cancelled the depots and pulled the workers. During the drops/run-bys he was concentrating on his units so didn't bother moving the workers. His unit movement is just turtley for the most part - not chasing too far, regularly moving back to the middle ramp, etc. The viking movement seems sus, but he saw zealots being ported into the fog-of-war warp prism so wouldn't be hard to figure out that it was about to attack and there was only a sliver of FoW left to the south. Seeing that there was zealots positioned there would also explain why he sent a part of his army down to check later in the game. The only observer he blind scanned was the one that let the stalkers hit the high ground so was obviously in the FoW. Terran could even be an off-race for him, which would explain the lack of sensor and missile towers, weird unit composition/build order/upgrades and limited use of siege mode. Not being familiar with the race would probably explain a lot of discrepancies. He seems like a guy who likes to sit back and build up his ideal army before attacking. I had a similar style in the OG StarCraft back in the day, I also scrolled the screen a lot and barely used hotkeys. And/or he was just getting off-race practice and wasn't sure what he was doing a lot of the time. And/or he's a filthy hacker 😅 Really hard to tell with that single game without at least knowing his match history.
in the mind of a gold player (mine), I would build depots to block the attack if my units weren't in position. Assuming the attack was still being staged. Hackerino's is definitely a Gold player and at that level its next to impossible to spot a non-moving observer.
@@kooldad1 Harstem said that it was ~5k MMR game. Also if you think that is gold level macro (which is not really that effected by potential cheats) respectfully you really need to watch the game again. At the *very* least it's master's macro or maybe high diamond IMO
a few things that stuck out to me that Harstem didn't notice or mentioned during the Killa vs Hackerinos game that makes me suspicious of hackerinos. Hackerinos never once scanned the map to check the enemies bases or potential army movements despite knowing about the Scan ability which they used to perfectly catch the Observers (I can see the first scan making sense but not the second. At 20:41 Hackerinos sends the Banchee over to the Prism despite not having vision in that corner of the map (no depot). I could be wrong but I don't think pro players are going to be that accurate when the prism or the medivac wasn't spotted. In my opinion, the reason hackerinos makes sloppy mistakes is to make it less obvious he's a hacker, but there are far too many coincidences for to make me think he's a genuine player.
The fact that hackerino scrolls everywhere without having a single camera hotkey is the reason why his plays were so bad. He couldnt keep up with everything killa was doing. Its very clear that killa is over 2k mmr more in skill then hackerino. The mirroring of the viking, and not paying attention to the fight leads me to believe he had some outside help
Most sus things for me w/ Hackerinos was bending the Viking back towards the base before he'd seen the warp, and the reaction time while he's placing the depots. If you watch it back at .5 speed, you can see he all armies a few frames before the zealots break the fog of war. To say: he didn't notice the attack on his mini map, was placing depots when he saw them run onto his screen (still in the fog) and reacted with an "oh shit all army" before they got to him.
I could dox the Ingame name of this guy. I´m killa and still have the replay as well as name. Not sure if I want to do it though. Let it be harstems job to find the puzzle pieces. Definitely felt super suspicious after playing that game vs Hackerino (I´m killa btw :D)
@@AK-747 no he’s 100% hacking a lot of people don’t say it but he did a lot of things unintentionally to make it look realistic because if he had defended everything before you attacked it would give it away notice his reaction of army movement it’s not even about the Viking at this point it’s him knowing the pre location of attack without seeing I remember when I played and was masters even I couldn’t predict this it would all be a random attack I would be waiting for
16:31 He perfectly moved the banshee to stay out of the vision of the observer that you can see on the mini map a bit later when Harstem switches to both players vision. I do find it funny that a few seconds after this he says “this banshee movement seems legit”
I enjoyed the sponsored advert about the cool pants. You have a fun, nonchalant attitude, which i feel your girlfriend shares and it works so well. I hope you got paid well for that cause you and your girl deserve it. so stylish and fun.
How's this for a series idea: You over-analyze a game in its entirety, going over every mistake you see and how you would fix it. That game with the proxy hatcheries would have been solved with a reaper, but that takes time to know that you're also macroing up and preparing behind that. The last game with mech was weird. He didn't make sensor towers, but then again he didn't expand very far and wasn't active on the map. That center position before the fight at the fourth was the center of the three, a natural resting place. His movement with the Viking could have been to remove that one annoyance while trusting his defenses to hold while he killed that mosquito. If he was a hacker he needed to have been more active on the map in order to not fall behind. Which is the idea of the series. You have the skill and knowledge to give a small example of everything you think of in a game. Making those examples be of varying levels would give all of those levels solid ways to improve. I don't know how long the videos would be, I'm guessing not short. But they likely wouldn't need to be updated, unit control/movement, generic fight tactics, hotkey/vision hotkey setup. Ways/ideas for others to improve. Otherwise, I still love your channel! It's always great to hear your explanations and willingness to operate in good faith.
Please show the endings of the replays quick if it was close! I was pulling for the first person SimpleOne to beat the opponent despite it being an obvious hacker, and I'm so curious now :D. Fun series, thanks.
The game between IdontTalk and hacker legit looked like hacker was going for a medivac drop, where you try to skirt the edges of the map to avoid any of your opponent's scouts, and he had a 50/50 shot of stumbling on IdontTalk's hidden bases; probably due solely to the creep spread...
I do think it's better to be careful and only look for 99.99-100% certain things. Circumstantial evidence in this kind of series is super easy to work into your head that you just see the patterns, it's actually a really hard psychological problem to deal with.
At 30:00 the 2x depots at the 4th base look like a bluff. There is only a single frame after the Protoss come into view before all SCV's & mules are selected & moving away to the top left, no other responses in the game have been anywhere near that fast. Also the prism tracking from earlier was way too accurate, compared with how you would normally do a random search & patrol.
I think he simply wasn't looking at the mininmap, the guy is insanely slow and he just dealt with a prism and started macroing and then the moment the toss shows on his screen still in fog of war, he f2s his army there and pulls away his workers. He was mirroring the toss army movement all game except when he was under pressure
@@norberthiz9318 That's not correct. The units would be in his camera when he scheduled the depots, so he didn't even need to see the minimap. I do feel like he's just doing the depots to pretend not hacking tho, but it's not conclusive evidence to me.
Harstem PLEASE use the “player camera view” more. So many of hackerino’s engagements could have been gauged one way or another if we just saw what he was looking at on his screen
31:37 lets make sense out of it: if hackerino was maphacking they knew that rescuing that base would be a very tight call, so they build some distraction depots to gain a few more seconds to defend the base. The depots didnt make it in time, but then killa barely didnt destroy the base, but then it burned down anyway.. Droping mules is also not completely incorrect, because if you loose that base you at least gonna a few extra minerals from these patches by using the mules, whereas keeping the energy might not archive much, because theres a reasonable chance that the first 3 bases run out minerals anyway.
it might be interesting to do a video where you play a game against someone better than you but you have full vision, just to further get inside the mind of a map hacker or even do a challenge where you have a group of people play but one of them is map hacking and you try to pick them out
29:21 I think terran just sees a mass of units to the right and starts setting up a depot wall just before the zealots start moving forward _edit_ yeah 29:58
The weird thing about the barcode toss is he sees no oracle, but doesn't go DT. I didn't see whether there was a cannon or not, but there definitely wasn't an observer. DTs would deal massive damage to this player, but the guy who can see everything doesn't use them. You can snipe his robo if he has one and his stargate and this guy would be screwed, 0 detection and all he can do is try to build cannons hoping they don't get scouted before completing. That is death's door right there, no advantage taken.
Harstem for visual fidelity can you always leave Anti-aliasing graphic setting to its highest, even for your low res pro matches the AA just improves the smoothness of the different objects and won't negatively impact your visibility. If your wondering what it affects when your looking at the edge of a nexus its very visible like a staircase when Anti-aliasing is off.
![[ENG] 2024 GSL S2 Ro.16 Group D 「Full VOD」](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CrB_cC0dMaY/mqdefault.jpg)
Use intotheam.com/HARSTEM10-pants for a discount on the prettiest pants you'll ever find.
Mate, you can easily get a new career as an ad creator. That was gold!
Jesus christ...SEND A PROBE IF YOUR GONNA SCREEN PEAK! at least cover your damned tracks!
we forgive you ad.
however, it will make you richer and less care about us 😿
great sponsor Captain always on the look for pretty trousers
See, that's how advertising should be done. Irene's acting skills were so convincing, I almost believed for one second that I wanted some stretch fabric, elastic waist, comfort fit, ugly trousers just like Harstem's (but obviously much much shorter, because I'm not a giant) before common sense snapped me back to reality with the realisation that even my own wife wouldn't sleep with me if I did that.
Harstem advertises pants, then goes to his regular videos where he is wearing nothing but a shirt sitting on a ball-chair.
I want the cabinetry Harstem has in the ad background.
we don't even know if he's wearing underwear. have you thought of that?
@@ghosthunter0950 He might be a centaur, just like Tasteless and Artosis
We never get to see his lower half when he's playing (the one on the ad is a stunt double)
@@ghosthunter0950 I said nothing but a shirt.
@AntiDoctor-cx2jd dang, i can't get that image out of my head, thank you genius.
I'm surprisingly OK with the Harstem ads, hah.
Same! My reaction was "Our boy snagged a sponsership! Good for him!"
Yea, didn't even skip it, because it was entertaining.
Funniest pants ad I've seen so far by far 😂
Also,... doggo :)
Nice intro Harstem but do not fool us. You do not wear any pants
The video of Harstem with pants on is clearly AI generated. You can tell by the way the pixels are. And also by the fact that Harstem is wearing pants.
@@ThueJanusKristensen A.I. generation is most commonly identified by mistakes in logic. Key points to identify include the number and orientation of fingers, the hair, and the fact that Harstem does not wear pants.
I am not a fan of sitting on the ball chair naked. It is uncomfortable. You need at least some shorts or a towel.
I wanted to point out that Hackerinos spotted the zealots with his viking a minute or so before Harstem pointed out how weird it was that he found them. So that move at least seemed legit.
Agreed. I don't think Hackerinos is a cheater. He's just a typical bad mech terran who's only skill seems to be spotting obs shimmers in the game graphics. He also occasionally remembers that toss opponents will try to do small prism/zealot attacks to distract and lure the slow mech army out of position, in order to then target one of the outside terran bases with their main toss army. This is why he immediately runs back with his army after clearing up the first few zealot pushes into his main and natural. Still, Killa absolutely carved him up like a prime steak in this game, gg wp!
@@aquilegia9734 Yeah, I think I agree with the army movement. He seemed to be paranoid of prism harass. Also I was thinking about it but the Viking spotting the zealots also explains why he was microing it so much, he knew there had to be a prism flying around, as how else would the zealots be there, so he was looking for it
@@aquilegia9734 Agreed, that's a traumatized mech grinder.
SimpleOne here, thanks for reviewing my game!
It's really weird how obvious the cheating was in hindsight. Also I was aware that this wasn't my best performance, but man, do I suck 😅
You dont suck man... just because of these things I sold my laptop and dont play multiplayer at all.😢 at least you still playing
@@trufflepudding4704 Cheating in SC is extraordinarily rare bro, selling your laptop because there is a 0.1% chance of encountering a cheater does not make sense, on top due to the skillgaps in sc will a objectively better player still win a good majority or have the gut feeling something was off like Simpleone felt.
Most players wont be able to capitalize andor are easily caught when reviewing the replay, i know how you feel but this aint counterstrike
Are you sure it wasn't just that maphacks are imba? If only there was someone who could tell us the difference...
@@TriangleChloros No way, map hackers haven't been doing well in the recent tournaments... If anything, map hacking needs a buff! 🤣🤣
Did you win? I wanted to see the ending :D. You were doing very well given that the dude was extremely likely to be hacking, don't be too hard on yourself.
First time I haven't skipped a ad, keep it up Captain
27:34 - "it's not crazy to look for observers"
But scanning in it's exact position is kinda sus
0:20 that image is now burned in my mind and theres nothing i can do to get it out of there
Ads i am not even mad about, you guys are JUST talented actors!
I think Hackerinos is a hacker, but he is too weak a player so he forgets to look at the minimap half the time, hence the f-ups.
OK what cinches the last guy being a hacker for me is what you see at 27:34 - the Observer is hanging out in anti-f2 mode and the hacker scans the exact spot where the obs is. Hits the cloaked unit dead center with it.
This happens again at 22:20 - the single viking is positioned and the scan is placed EXACTLY on the observer. Do maphacks reveal invisible units as well? I mean, once is a coincidence, by two perfect scans centered on the observer?
@@MathBar there is a shimmer in the graphics when there's a cloaked unit. hard to spot, but visible if you move the camera. I dont think the guy is cheating he's 1. really bad (about as bad as I am lol) 2. gets lucky few times 3. has good eye to shimmers from observers.
That's actually pretty interesting, I never once even suspected an opponent of maphacking but with thousands of games it seems quite likely to have happened at least once.
The only time I've ever been *sure* an opponent was maphacking was when the guy started sending me unsolicited critique of my build order.
Which was a bit weird, given that he didn't have vision of *any* part of my build.
@@TriangleChloros ngl, that's kind of funny
The reason you make those depots is because you want it to look like that's what you were going to do and thats how you knew the attack was coming. Ex-map hacker. A lot of map hacking (To not get caught) is looking like you're trash on purpose but making the right calls directly afterwards. You work reactively instead of proactively. No need to scout ever if you see things moving on the minimap. The second he started putting those depots down and canceled them immediately ANDDD selected all those workers to move them instantly, having shown a sheer lack of speed in move commanding things is just evidence enough to me that he was cheating. It follows no logic. He hasn't been quick to do anything all game and somehow suddenly, he canceled both depots, selects all of those workers, lifts his command center, moves his army all at once? Nah I dont buy it.
Then why doesnt he move his army to save his base lol?
interesting take and insight. ill take your word for it, cheaters always can spot cheaters. i know a league scripter when i see one
The stalkers were in vision when he was queuing them, and he cancelled them also in vision. He might not be fast at reacting at the map but okay at reacting at things on screen (like me)
@@assault410 I didn't say he was good.
Also, sometimes, to appear as if you're not cheating, you'd sacrifice things. Obviously, if he is cheating, which I am sure he is, he seems like he knows what watching replays in FP view looks like and is trying to make it hard to tell he's cheating.
@@kurt7937 Yea, that was long ago though. It was in broodwars before sc2 was even announced. I was in a group that had no idea I was maphacking and mineral glitching. I was youngggg back then and wanted people to respect me. It wasn't worth the time because when I went to sc2, I sucked real bad and had to relearn how to play. Stuck in bronze then worked my way to plat. If I had just played legit I'd never have had that many issues.
When a low level player is literally spotting every observer despite having no map awareness at all I think that's worth noting too. Definitely would help the analysis to remember that hackers are not very bright and make terrible decisions constantly.
And just because he has vision doesn’t mean he’s actually looking at the minimap. His movements are only sus when nothing else is going on. Once his attention is elsewhere he’s immediately overwhelmed. This ain’t rank roulette, but this dude is def punching above his weight
@@OurayTheOwl Yeah the MMR difference is insane. Killa is miles and miles better
This guy ain't mech-turtling right, no turrets guarding the main and the natural expo (did he ever build them ??), also no sensor towers as mentioned by Harstem, that's kinda sus if you ask me
so frustrating every time he says "you wouldnt do this, you wouldnt play this". good players arent hacking bro, stop giving them so much benefit
The logic of the depo's was simple if you try to think like a moron, to wall and stall for time as his army was out of position but as he is a stupid hacker he started his masterplan when it was already way to late. Harstem assumes these script kiddie hackers are gonna acct like giga brain pros hacking when in fact they cheat to compensate for the fact that they suck. Map hack does not give you multitasking, micro or macro skills it gives unfair situational awareness but not the skill to utilize it.
as me, Killa, I completely agree hahaha:D
Point is he changes his mind once information shows up on his player view multiple times throughout the game so either he is toggling or trying to meta check spectators.
Look at the camera movement in the end, where Harstem thinks he isn’t looking sus. He pans the camera BEFORE the army shows up TWICE. I think he maybe turned MH off or something for a while. Nice to see you crushed him anyway.
I disagree, based on that moment in the end. He was caught by zealots while right-clicking pylon? It's a finale, zealots are 5 tiles away from him, and he couldn't react in time... Where was he looking at?)
I was thinking the same thing. He probably saw zealots massed, and wanted to get a wall up quickly, hoping they wouldn't attack for a bit.
Finally a fitting sponsorship for gamers without pants
Im a programmer, and know a little bit how hacks work, and how they get around detection.
The anticheat warden doesnt run all the time, it does periodic checks of the memory. The not as good hacks will detect when warden is doing the check, and disable the hack momentarily until warden is finished, and then reenable when its done.
The best hacks will completely fudge the data warden collects, so it never has to turn off.
I think that last game may have been a perfect example of the not as good hack.
From a cheat perspective I think it's easier to disable the warden if you figure out the entry point than to disable your own cheat, right? It's just adding an early return. Else you need to somehow figure out when warden is running etc
Omg 😂
That Harstem shuffle dance is now my computer screen saver.
Keep on shuffling little buddy 😎
I'm sitting on 95% sure for hackerinos and it's mostly the way the Viking tracked the Prism. Mirrored movement, excessive focus/clicking, out of vision, all while there's an active threat to respond to. In fact, with how much focus he devotes to defending against drops, it's impressive he never builds a Sensor Tower.... or a turret.
To me it was hackerinos retreating his entire thor army back to base disengaging an advantageous chase to defend from a zealot runby he had no vision of yet.
@@LeicaFleury but there are also counter examples of him not responding to Killa's entire army when he has no vision. I think he is not a hacker.
That alone wouldn't be conclusive for me, we have to look at other examples where he moves the viking into that deadzone. If he ever spam clicks when there's nothing there then it could just be something he does.
I think he's a hacker that' bad at the game. Like the reaper early wasn't a fake scout, but an actual attempt to harass
@@DudethatGross My issue with this rebuttal is that you can apply this to almost any hacker. You can take the most egregious fog-of-war peeker and they're still going to make moves that don't align with the information they should have.
There were also too many times he scanned directly on top of an observer. Sure there was the one time he reasonably should have known it was there, but there were two other quite random times where the observer was dead center.
I do often find that my pants don't match the situation!
but do they match better than *no pants*? the glass is half full :)
More dog in all future videos please.
I think a general rule that is often true in these cases is if you are above 5k MMR and you don't scout, you are automatically either a hacker or a very weird person.
Hackerinos is definitely a hacker. All of his scans are perfectly on center of an observer, and he never scans otherwise.
Could make sense if he only scans after seeing the shimmer, but never scanning otherwise on top of never building a Sensor Tower or Turret despite the constant drops? Definitely hacker.
That and the viking mirror, I agree. A very low IQ hacker though, goddamn.
@@fluffyfang4213 the observers weren't moving before or during the scan what shimmer ? And at least 2 of them were out of sight before moving towards them and scanning for them.... Also the scan of the initial observer, Harstem argument that it makes sense because those stalkers were shooting up the ramp hence must be an observer would hold if he scanned immediately after deflecting the attack but he didn't he scanned a minute later exactly on top of the thing ....
@@euLIRIC Observers shimmer even without moving. There was a recent update that greatly increased their visibility while invisible by making them bigger and making their idle animation faster.
The issue with Hackerinos is that it's full of moments that look like obvious hacks, and also full of moments that look like it's impossible any hacker would play that way.
ayo, what is that intro man? why is it so relatable?
Harstem doesn't seem to understand that lower-level players, even just under GM, don't have the mental APM to look at mini map constantly, even if they have no fog of war. All the times they didn't notice something and it "seemed odd" can simply be explained by they were paying attention to something else and didn't even look at the mini map. I get at the professional level that seems unheard of and "crazy" but everyone below that just isn't able to keep up, even when relatively noting is happening.
for something like a prism getting into your base sure, but I think an army coming in to attack is a lot harder to miss
If the last guy is map hacking he's so good at pretending he doesn't have it that he forgets to actually use it ^_^
That ad was inspired, bro gets laughed at by his girl literally wearing the drapes, you can't make this up. Love you both.
I think this the first time I've genuinly needed something and a random ass youtube ad fits perfectly lmfao
One thing worth bearing in mind for the second game, with the viking/prism behaviour, and the zealots in the mineral line afterwards, is that I find lower elo players tend to hyperfocus on small things (because that's what pro players do) while throwing the bigger picture out of the window (not what pro players do). It wouldn't surprise me at all if the prism/zealots were the only thing on his mind at that point, and the massive fight happening outside the front of his base was an afterthought. Same with the unsieging of the tanks only to move them into a worse spot; how many games of iodis have we seen where players perform negative micro?
Regarding second games, it's common for dropships to hug the edge of the map to avoid overlord when you're dropping. That said, the fact that he didn't scout at all is kind of stupid. I haven't done that since my early days in the silver league.
I mean, Harstem calling someone a hacker for not scouting would be a bit...
Seeing the full match would have helped a lot. It's hard to draw any sort of conclusions from the short clip we got.
This is the best advertisement ever
The 2 zealots at 4th were visible during the Viking Dead Space attack.
If all youtube video ads were like this I wouldn't mind being advertised to
Just really started watching your channel as I have bounced around to the other guys. I have to say; that ad at the start is amazing, like… too good. Well done sir.
At 23:32, terran sees the zealots just afk'ing. They're not moving with the protoss army, so they're gonna be coming back in a prism. The only really suspicious thing is the viking movement. terran has already been hit twice by prisms in that same spot and he knows there are zealots there. You can't give someone credit for hugging the edge of the map with a medivac and then blame someone for checking the edge of the map with a viking when he knows an attack is coming from exactly there.
I think the zealot find on the 2nd game didn't seem too suspicious. He saw them with the banshee and viking earlier so makes sense to think there might still be zealots in the area
3rd Replay: Re: Zealot Find east of Main Base.
You see the Zealots running around there when his Viking is chasing after the Warp Prism. He reasonably could've known they were there.
I'm more convinced he is a hacker by virtue of how poorly several of his decisions were for him to be in that MMR range. But it could've just been a bad matchup.
It has to be said, that was probably the greatest advertisement for pants, ever. I've never been more inspired to wear pants. Kudos.
38:00 find on the zealots: they have been spottet before! see 25:59 / 25:36
since he shot the warpprism the zealots must still be there. Also the calling the forces back after the move-out ... could just be that he is a typical terrain turtle and too afraid to walk across the map, especially since there had been 2 run by's before from the top...
I finally see a full body shot of Harstem and those shorts are exactly what I suspected. Captain up top, pool Miami boy below.
Man, I watch you a bit high and I gotta say. It absolutely tickles me every time you do an ad yourself. I'm glad I watch you.
Damn, it's an ambiguous one... Almost like hackerino's pants didn't match the situation
To me, the fast worker pull at the fourth with no other worker pulls all game, the unit movement to the fourth before the zealots were spotted and watching the fourth beforehand, the Viking movement and attacking idling zealots archon prism out of vision on the left were all Uber suspicious for such a low apm seeming mech Terran. It’s all circumstantial though, and being in position between the natural and third for most the game doesn’t really prove much. I agree another game is needed. I also would guess the tanks remaining unsieged in moveouts and late walls/responses are more a testament to skill level and playstyle than innocence and more likely to happen again than one might assume whether they are cheating or not.
Also have to say the segment at the start was very cool. 10/10 sponsor segment
I think even the suspicious moments in that last game could have a legit explanation. The weirdness at the 4th: he was already focussed on expanding in that area and when the attack started he had no army there to micro, so he cancelled the depots and pulled the workers. During the drops/run-bys he was concentrating on his units so didn't bother moving the workers. His unit movement is just turtley for the most part - not chasing too far, regularly moving back to the middle ramp, etc. The viking movement seems sus, but he saw zealots being ported into the fog-of-war warp prism so wouldn't be hard to figure out that it was about to attack and there was only a sliver of FoW left to the south. Seeing that there was zealots positioned there would also explain why he sent a part of his army down to check later in the game. The only observer he blind scanned was the one that let the stalkers hit the high ground so was obviously in the FoW. Terran could even be an off-race for him, which would explain the lack of sensor and missile towers, weird unit composition/build order/upgrades and limited use of siege mode. Not being familiar with the race would probably explain a lot of discrepancies.
He seems like a guy who likes to sit back and build up his ideal army before attacking. I had a similar style in the OG StarCraft back in the day, I also scrolled the screen a lot and barely used hotkeys. And/or he was just getting off-race practice and wasn't sure what he was doing a lot of the time. And/or he's a filthy hacker 😅
Really hard to tell with that single game without at least knowing his match history.
Hands down my favorite series by you so far!! Keep up the good stuff my Captain!!
If the depots don't fit you must acquit!
in the mind of a gold player (mine), I would build depots to block the attack if my units weren't in position. Assuming the attack was still being staged. Hackerino's is definitely a Gold player and at that level its next to impossible to spot a non-moving observer.
@@kooldad1 Harstem said that it was ~5k MMR game. Also if you think that is gold level macro (which is not really that effected by potential cheats) respectfully you really need to watch the game again. At the *very* least it's master's macro or maybe high diamond IMO
a few things that stuck out to me that Harstem didn't notice or mentioned during the Killa vs Hackerinos game that makes me suspicious of hackerinos. Hackerinos never once scanned the map to check the enemies bases or potential army movements despite knowing about the Scan ability which they used to perfectly catch the Observers (I can see the first scan making sense but not the second. At 20:41 Hackerinos sends the Banchee over to the Prism despite not having vision in that corner of the map (no depot). I could be wrong but I don't think pro players are going to be that accurate when the prism or the medivac wasn't spotted. In my opinion, the reason hackerinos makes sloppy mistakes is to make it less obvious he's a hacker, but there are far too many coincidences for to make me think he's a genuine player.
The fact that hackerino scrolls everywhere without having a single camera hotkey is the reason why his plays were so bad. He couldnt keep up with everything killa was doing. Its very clear that killa is over 2k mmr more in skill then hackerino. The mirroring of the viking, and not paying attention to the fight leads me to believe he had some outside help
Another job for the Special Hacking Investigation Team (SHIT) from our most valued member Harstem. Your service is appreciated!
Most sus things for me w/ Hackerinos was bending the Viking back towards the base before he'd seen the warp, and the reaction time while he's placing the depots. If you watch it back at .5 speed, you can see he all armies a few frames before the zealots break the fog of war. To say: he didn't notice the attack on his mini map, was placing depots when he saw them run onto his screen (still in the fog) and reacted with an "oh shit all army" before they got to him.
The advertisment was fantastic
“We do the procedure” - Kramnik
I think someone else needs to send in a replay against hackerinos so we can really decide
I could dox the Ingame name of this guy. I´m killa and still have the replay as well as name. Not sure if I want to do it though. Let it be harstems job to find the puzzle pieces. Definitely felt super suspicious after playing that game vs Hackerino (I´m killa btw :D)
@@AK-747 It is Maru? Or is it Not Maru?
@@AK-747 good job with the drops and warp ins i would have had massive panic attacks and rage quit if i wa the terran
@@AK-747he was defo a hacker
@@AK-747 no he’s 100% hacking a lot of people don’t say it but he did a lot of things unintentionally to make it look realistic because if he had defended everything before you attacked it would give it away notice his reaction of army movement it’s not even about the Viking at this point it’s him knowing the pre location of attack without seeing I remember when I played and was masters even I couldn’t predict this it would all be a random attack I would be waiting for
I really like these catching the hacker vids. great content
also good for you on getting a sponsor
24:40 the clicks into the edge of the main where the prism was unloading with no vision on it
16:31 He perfectly moved the banshee to stay out of the vision of the observer that you can see on the mini map a bit later when Harstem switches to both players vision. I do find it funny that a few seconds after this he says “this banshee movement seems legit”
that add at the start had some stellar acting in it absolutely amazing
okay, your sponsor segment is the best I've ever seen on UA-cam xD 😂😂 - nice dance-skills btw 🕺
10:59 So we went from aleeged to aledged.
12:41 Ah yes, Aleedged.
I enjoyed the sponsored advert about the cool pants. You have a fun, nonchalant attitude, which i feel your girlfriend shares and it works so well. I hope you got paid well for that cause you and your girl deserve it. so stylish and fun.
How's this for a series idea: You over-analyze a game in its entirety, going over every mistake you see and how you would fix it.
That game with the proxy hatcheries would have been solved with a reaper, but that takes time to know that you're also macroing up and preparing behind that. The last game with mech was weird. He didn't make sensor towers, but then again he didn't expand very far and wasn't active on the map. That center position before the fight at the fourth was the center of the three, a natural resting place. His movement with the Viking could have been to remove that one annoyance while trusting his defenses to hold while he killed that mosquito. If he was a hacker he needed to have been more active on the map in order to not fall behind.
Which is the idea of the series. You have the skill and knowledge to give a small example of everything you think of in a game. Making those examples be of varying levels would give all of those levels solid ways to improve. I don't know how long the videos would be, I'm guessing not short. But they likely wouldn't need to be updated, unit control/movement, generic fight tactics, hotkey/vision hotkey setup. Ways/ideas for others to improve.
Otherwise, I still love your channel! It's always great to hear your explanations and willingness to operate in good faith.
12:15: I'm gonna guess that the blue Terran here is not a hacker.
Guy literally called hacker in game: wait a second! Are you blaming me in smurfing?
You do realize Harstem intentionally changed their name to hacker or Hackerino or stuff to hide their real ID right?
Please show the endings of the replays quick if it was close! I was pulling for the first person SimpleOne to beat the opponent despite it being an obvious hacker, and I'm so curious now :D. Fun series, thanks.
yeah this ad is hilarious, well done lmao
lmfao the pants commercial im dyin
The game between IdontTalk and hacker legit looked like hacker was going for a medivac drop, where you try to skirt the edges of the map to avoid any of your opponent's scouts, and he had a 50/50 shot of stumbling on IdontTalk's hidden bases; probably due solely to the creep spread...
I do think it's better to be careful and only look for 99.99-100% certain things. Circumstantial evidence in this kind of series is super easy to work into your head that you just see the patterns, it's actually a really hard psychological problem to deal with.
at 23:32 the terrans sees the zealots in bottom base and this might explain one of the suspicious moves he made
The ad was s+ tier. Whatever that was, it just made my day.
We are so fortunate to be enjoying so much wonderful sc content. But hacker analysis is imo the most interesting.
I didn't know Harstem have legs until today 😂😂😂
Togglers are people who toggle cheats off and on when needed during the game. Makes them harder to catch.
Worst hacker ever, tells everyone he's hacking and forgets to use hacks.
At 30:00 the 2x depots at the 4th base look like a bluff. There is only a single frame after the Protoss come into view before all SCV's & mules are selected & moving away to the top left, no other responses in the game have been anywhere near that fast. Also the prism tracking from earlier was way too accurate, compared with how you would normally do a random search & patrol.
I think he simply wasn't looking at the mininmap, the guy is insanely slow and he just dealt with a prism and started macroing and then the moment the toss shows on his screen still in fog of war, he f2s his army there and pulls away his workers. He was mirroring the toss army movement all game except when he was under pressure
@@norberthiz9318 That's not correct. The units would be in his camera when he scheduled the depots, so he didn't even need to see the minimap. I do feel like he's just doing the depots to pretend not hacking tho, but it's not conclusive evidence to me.
mate this is the best ad i have ever seen 😂😂, and yeah he was prolly setting his camera hotkeys lmao 😂
27:32 he perfectly scans the opserver that's a dead give away
Harstem PLEASE use the “player camera view” more. So many of hackerino’s engagements could have been gauged one way or another if we just saw what he was looking at on his screen
That map vision by green at 11:30 😂
Wow. That pant commercial was the real banger.
The mirroring of the prism was enough evidence for me.
Detective work by Harstem on point lmao
i like the first person with the hackers series
I love these Harstem edition sponsorships
Harstem with the sponsors. He's making it!
31:50: The logic for making the deptos is give him an excuse to "find" the attacking army. He is doing those things to look less like a hacker.
Love the commercial at the start... Can I buy they signed by Harstem as well?
Always feels like Hackers are cleverly hiding their hacks by overall just having terrible responses and reacting incredibly slow.
31:37 lets make sense out of it: if hackerino was maphacking they knew that rescuing that base would be a very tight call, so they build some distraction depots to gain a few more seconds to defend the base. The depots didnt make it in time, but then killa barely didnt destroy the base, but then it burned down anyway..
Droping mules is also not completely incorrect, because if you loose that base you at least gonna a few extra minerals from these patches by using the mules, whereas keeping the energy might not archive much, because theres a reasonable chance that the first 3 bases run out minerals anyway.
You got me with that ad xD brilliant
it might be interesting to do a video where you play a game against someone better than you but you have full vision, just to further get inside the mind of a map hacker
or even do a challenge where you have a group of people play but one of them is map hacking and you try to pick them out
29:21 I think terran just sees a mass of units to the right and starts setting up a depot wall just before the zealots start moving forward _edit_ yeah 29:58
The weird thing about the barcode toss is he sees no oracle, but doesn't go DT. I didn't see whether there was a cannon or not, but there definitely wasn't an observer. DTs would deal massive damage to this player, but the guy who can see everything doesn't use them. You can snipe his robo if he has one and his stargate and this guy would be screwed, 0 detection and all he can do is try to build cannons hoping they don't get scouted before completing. That is death's door right there, no advantage taken.
Last guy way of playing reminds me alot of someone who is good but is watching netflix while playing.
Hackerinos had seen the two zealots with his viking before, he could have just thought they might have stayed (and be right about it).
Harstem for visual fidelity can you always leave Anti-aliasing graphic setting to its highest, even for your low res pro matches the AA just improves the smoothness of the different objects and won't negatively impact your visibility. If your wondering what it affects when your looking at the edge of a nexus its very visible like a staircase when Anti-aliasing is off.
That ad was soooo good. Do an extra Imba video and I promise I'll buy some pants.
In Hackerino replay, the only scans I saw were directly on observers. Push the dial more towards hacker...
That's the only ad I am willing to watch on youtube
I'm fairly sure that the only time Hackerino scanned was directly on observers. No scanning for army movement or scanning for obs but not finding one.
The real question is why the protoss didn't make A SINGLE INMORTAL against full ground terran mech, it's just free win