23:22 - Hey Kevin, I've heard there is this UA-camr called Harstem who has a format "Is It Imba Or Do I Suck?" If you write him a little text on why Terran eco is broken and then send him this replay along with it, he'll be able to tell you if you're right.
that mass immortal hallucination was high tier mind games ngl, perfect time to do it since he had minimal info on your tech & immortals counter stalkers
Ah, the void ray years, I remember them well. My favorite race was random, and my favorite matchup in that case was TvP. Silly Tosses would keep Skytossing even after they saw me playing the Marine only challenge. Not kidding, 50 SCVs, 150 Marines, lots of scans, and finally lots of salt.
I want some of that marine armor. Damn boys take a direct hit from a void ray capable of shredding armor and just keep shooting like it’s raining outside
Loved this video, when i started playing sc2 this was the height of cheese (especially with the batteries like game 3) and id play this every three games or so, albiet at gold. Thanks captain o7
Ahh, I still remember when they used to have 10 +15 vs armored when charged up. And even in spite of having to charge up it was apparently considered too strong and they changed it to 8 +8. Melted buildings like no tomorrow. In the very early days when we were all completely clueless I had a Stalker army absolutely annihiliated by a friend massing Voidrays.
damn, a true youtuber simp.. copying all his jokes xD instead of being a smart ass try to use ur logic and guess that i ment units what actually can damage air units. I am a terran main, im not crying ;)@@alanclw6024
i can't believe he clawed back in that game 3. i thought he was toast for sure when i saw how many scvs and mules that terran had and finding the expansion.
back when i played in wings of liberty i did this build all the time with stalkers and voids, a sentry and blink. it worked perfectly every single time, if i remember correctly my winrate was something like 10 to 1.
48:27 -- would have been worth it to CONTINUE attackin the Nexus, even at the risk of sacrificing ALL void rays in this position, because it was *CERTAINLY* going down, as long as he stayed... What a weird move to pull away, honestly... .
If ur having trouble against mass voidrays, u can try mixing in some archons with ur stalkers, of course he can out maneuver your slow army tho so watch out for that, but voids always lose to archons in a straight up fight
Harstem i have to admit after discovering uThermal i think he might be the true cheesiest man alive lmao. I was watching him alot when i found him and i saw some ques vs you and you beat him everytime hahaha.
but all these kinda proofs how imbalanced sc2 is. one should think in a strategy game that doing one unit type thing would always be an easy counter. dow as example you can mass T2 or even T3 tanks, even titans; and it will be easy mode countered by its actual counter (melters, missiles, heavy plasma etc. but anything not meant to take down heavy big armoured stuff will have next to zero effect and even having maxed out on such will not even be able to take 20% off a T3 heavy armoured anything before its all wiped; bc actual strategy balance); while in sc2 it doesn't matter; just mass ghost into zerglings, or mines into ultralisk, or ravens into air, or nothing but t1 vs. t3 or other such nonesense and you can still do well with the completely wrong units; which shows that the balance is just not right and counters are simply not strong enough. as example; banes is supposed to be a hardcounter to mass T1, but yet they die in one grouped shot and easily sniped by the unit they are supposed to counter; so if they where actually created well for a strategy game you would give them ultra armour, making T1 units do no noteworthy dmg; and lower their hp to like 20, meaning that bigger stuff like tank shots that are their counters would oneshot them even with ultralisk armour.. see it's stupid easy and yet bliztard fails all the way... its hard to keep watching year after year after year, where units counters and unit types means less and less and everything need to counter everything just use a thousind apm and all units becomes absurd; banes split and move in ways tanks can only hit one at a time, marines splits perfectly and becomes immune to banes, stalkers becomes impossible to ever kill, workers with mineral walking abuse becomes stupidly strong and can beat almost all melee units, etc..... it just such a sht balance for strategy; which is so damn provoking when the units are there and its just stupid numbers which anyone with a spreadsheet and decent understanding could do better....
I'm not saying mass VR is viable at the highest level, but I think it's a very underrated unit. It beats most air, I think only kiting vikings can beat VR, and I'm not completely sure if that works with teh speed upgrade. It can handle marines if you abuse the terrain effectively.
mutas, phoenixes and vikings all beat voids very easily, plus marines and hydras all destroye them if they don't have very good support, stalkers can struggle cause they are armored, but most of the time they also beat them. And I didn't even talk about spell casters, fungal, para bomb, emp, and archons all annihilate them. Voids can be good in very specific situations like in the game against disc, but they still suck hard in any normal game
@@norberthiz9318 Marines do not destroy mass VR. They destroy small numbers of VR, but in large numbers the extra range and terran tip it towards VR. Vikings beat anything protoss but they have to build something.
@@AntiDoctor-cx2jd marines murder voids, voids can't stutter step, so the range difference is irrelevant. Voids also don't have armor, so marines do an absolute shit ton of damage to them, while marines take low damage from voids. Just test it, a big marine ball absolutely deletes any amount of void rays with insane efficiency. obv if you camp behind static d and colossi or disruptor they can't run into it, but that is true for literally every single unit in the game
@@norberthiz9318 the range matters. You are just making stuff up. with terrain and buildings, there's plenty of places that marines can't beat voidrays.
I've always found mules bs; free, you get one every minute, collects 225 minerals over it's 1 minute lifespawn so 3 orbitals gives you 6750 minerals over 10 minutes. They also make you auto-win in case of a base trade. Nah terran is fair.
@@ZCasavant Mate Phoenix 5.95 Viking 3.85 There is more than a 2.0 speed difference between these units. But I know why you picked the fastest unit in the game for this comparison.
@@quineloe Fine, but they're not slow persay; just slower than Phoenix, Corrupters, and Mutas. They also have better range, because they're meant to combat capital ships, not actually AA fighters. It's for balance.
Why such a short list? They're also slower than warp prisms and void rays. They're slightly faster than Colossi and Tempests, so they can still easily retreat from them. Vikings can only fight if the opponent fights, too.@@ZCasavant
@@quineloe Because of balancing. Range 9. They're faster than anything that outranges them, and slower than anything they outrange. They are fine. Do you want Vikings to be faster?
@@enymus3081 why not? I thought the video was really entertaining. It performed really well in terms of views and likes. I would think 1 video a week on it would also break pf the metonymy of sc2
1:00 - Don't get me wrong ( Not trying to be angry or anything like that ), but Kyiv has different pronunciation. Its closer to "kih-yeev" (K that is closer to English's K, short I; also kind-of like uh ). Hard to say its pronunciation 100% in a text, so a better way of knowing how to say it is either by opening Wikipedia and listening to Ukranian version of it. Kiev, and the way how you pronounced it, either refers to 15th century capital of Kievskaya Rus, or Soviet Union "modified" name of the city and not how its officially called in 21th century. I don't think that WCS and Startcraft 2 existed before 21th century, so ... most likely your story was from Kyiv ;-) Also, yes, airports get it wrong aswell. They are too lazy to update destination name from Kiev to Kyiv. They still have the old, Soviet-era name for it in most cases. But this is at least more technically-correct, as that was at least somewhat "official" airport city code in 21th century.
It's Kijevas, Kijów, Киев, and Київ. As it has been for a thousand years. Each name equally glorious and beautiful for this gem of a city. Don't give Muscovy the power of owning your ancestral name.
@@povilzemYes, its all of that. But when you are talking about modern version of it the official way of saying is Kyiv. No one says Londinium ( the predecessor of London ), or Lutetia ( the predecessor for Paris ). At the same time no one should forget about historic name of a city, but this names should be used when you are talking about past version of a city.
@@ITechoManI You can thank the Grand Duchy of Lithuania for the existence of your national identity another time, my friend. In the meanwhile, I'll continue using the traditional Lithuanian name of your capital as I provide quality medical care for the children of your refugees.
WP but all these kinda proofs how imbalanced sc2 is. one should think in a strategy game that doing one unit type thing would always be an easy counter. dow as example you can mass T2 or even T3 tanks, even titans; and it will be easy mode countered by its actual counter (melters, missiles, heavy plasma etc. but anything not meant to take down heavy big armoured stuff will have next to zero effect and even having maxed out on such will not even be able to take 20% off a T3 heavy armoured anything before its all wiped; bc actual strategy balance); while in sc2 it doesn't matter; just mass ghost into zerglings, or mines into ultralisk, or ravens into air, or nothing but t1 vs. t3 or other such nonesense and you can still do well with the completely wrong units; which shows that the balance is just not right and counters are simply not strong enough. as example; banes is supposed to be a hardcounter to mass T1, but yet they die in one grouped shot and easily sniped by the unit they are supposed to counter; so if they where actually created well for a strategy game you would give them ultra armour, making T1 units do no noteworthy dmg; and lower their hp to like 20, meaning that bigger stuff like tank shots that are their counters would oneshot them even with ultralisk armour.. see it's stupid easy and yet bliztard fails all the way... its hard to keep watching year after year after year, where units counters and unit types means less and less and everything need to counter everything just use a thousind apm and all units becomes absurd; banes split and move in ways tanks can only hit one at a time, marines splits perfectly and becomes immune to banes, stalkers becomes impossible to ever kill, workers with mineral walking abuse becomes stupidly strong and can beat almost all melee units, etc..... it just such a sht balance for strategy; which is so damn provoking when the units are there and its just stupid numbers which anyone with a spreadsheet and decent understanding could do better....
this should also be shown to scarlett so their new RTS doesn't make the same mistake (though the ultralisk in that at least doesn't seem to die instantly to T1 bc they look at it funny). but still again there i see micro being silly good compared to correct composition.
That is not how starcraft works, and it should never work like that. Harstem didn't just mass a single unit and a move. He played a a very spesific build which forced his opponent to stay on low base counts and have a unit comp that requires good eco to work well, while Harstem was able to expand very rapidly even tho theoretically in a stalker vs void game the stalker player should be the one who gets to expand freely, while the void player is supposed to just turtle. He won the game through execution AND strategy, which is how sc worked since 1998. What you want is to be able to just build the right units and a move with no micro and win. Play aoe if that is what you want because starcraft has always been about excecution first and strategy a close second. It is a REAL TIME strategy game, not a turn based one, so stfu
23:22 - Hey Kevin, I've heard there is this UA-camr called Harstem who has a format "Is It Imba Or Do I Suck?" If you write him a little text on why Terran eco is broken and then send him this replay along with it, he'll be able to tell you if you're right.
No longer the best void ray rush I've never heard about.
Underrated
that mass immortal hallucination was high tier mind games ngl, perfect time to do it since he had minimal info on your tech & immortals counter stalkers
haha yeah that worked so well :D the instant blink
Ah, the void ray years, I remember them well. My favorite race was random, and my favorite matchup in that case was TvP. Silly Tosses would keep Skytossing even after they saw me playing the Marine only challenge. Not kidding, 50 SCVs, 150 Marines, lots of scans, and finally lots of salt.
They didn't think of building colossi, the other unit with the C hotkey
@@Fimbu1vetr you play on default hotkeys?
@@Amoeby No. But most production facilities I still have using default hotkeys.
@@Amoebyhotkeys?
"People telling me my Oracle is top 25 in Europe"
Jokes that Harstem is able to make while playing on such high level are making me double LOL 😂
2024 = Year of Harstem. I've been waiting for the Void / Observer combo to open my wallet 😂. Thanks Captain!!!
I want some of that marine armor. Damn boys take a direct hit from a void ray capable of shredding armor and just keep shooting like it’s raining outside
It's actually infuriating how good a bunch of simple shooty boys are against the might of the Golden Armada
"Contrary to popular belief, Immortals don't shoot up" XDDDD
It warms my heart to see an old protoss rediscover the joys of mass voidray.
50:22 that smile across your face... you are one sick puppy! Relishing in his pain.
Loved this video, when i started playing sc2 this was the height of cheese (especially with the batteries like game 3) and id play this every three games or so, albiet at gold. Thanks captain o7
I like void rays.
Glad to see you are still doing this.
That last game was giving off some Alarak Death Fleet vibes. 😈
the death fleet descends
38:17 -- yeah, I could SWEAR so too... Wtf? :O
1:36 How *sadistic* one has to be to want to shake a *broken* hand. 😈😆
Ahh, I still remember when they used to have 10 +15 vs armored when charged up. And even in spite of having to charge up it was apparently considered too strong and they changed it to 8 +8. Melted buildings like no tomorrow. In the very early days when we were all completely clueless I had a Stalker army absolutely annihiliated by a friend massing Voidrays.
everything what terran can make counters voids
Flying tanks, jet pack SCVs, anti-air marauders, atam banshees, no fly zone liberators, and best of all, ravens with seeker missles.
Vikings + Mines
damn, a true youtuber simp.. copying all his jokes xD instead of being a smart ass try to use ur logic and guess that i ment units what actually can damage air units. I am a terran main, im not crying ;)@@alanclw6024
I vote for the Flying tans 👍@@alanclw6024
They nerfed void rays into the ground because people were salty about dying to proxy void ray + battery cheese. Now practically useless unit
fantastic games hilarious well done
The King at it again
This build was so sick. Not exactly a cheese cuz it was definitely a macro build, but it felt like a really cool old school BGMWSS
As a creature from the sea of the type "other", I feel left out
i can't believe he clawed back in that game 3. i thought he was toast for sure when i saw how many scvs and mules that terran had and finding the expansion.
back when i played in wings of liberty i did this build all the time with stalkers and voids, a sentry and blink.
it worked perfectly every single time, if i remember correctly my winrate was something like 10 to 1.
This looks like hell to play against. I am shocked how long your opponents were able to defend against that hell.
48:27 -- would have been worth it to CONTINUE attackin the Nexus, even at the risk of sacrificing ALL void rays in this position, because it was *CERTAINLY* going down, as long as he stayed...
What a weird move to pull away, honestly...
.
Was that Reynor he was talking to? Sounds like him. I think him and Harstem are pulling our legs.
awesome, would it do well against zerg?
you won last game because of the hallucinated immortals :)
Stasis Wards and Hallucinations underused to this day in pro plays.
At 13:14 you can see a probe move up the ramp on the mini-map and spot his stargate.
im a big fan of cannon rushing to psi storm
23:22 is it imba or do i suck?
TRULY TOP 25 EU ORACLE
Just a friendly reminder that nexi is not a word, the plural of nexus is either nexus (latin) or nexuses (english).
Goblin was like, no gg?
Silly Protoss thinking he can defeat the "Mon'keigh" with his feeble little Void Rays. The Emperor protects, Battle Sisters and Brothers ✊🦅
If ur having trouble against mass voidrays, u can try mixing in some archons with ur stalkers, of course he can out maneuver your slow army tho so watch out for that, but voids always lose to archons in a straight up fight
any time i ever saw voids i just went storm. to shreds, you say?
What about storm, or range Phoenix?
@@myselfremade Yeah Storm and upgraded Phoenixes are great too, but with Archons you dont even need to micro lol
Top 25 oracle EU? Nah i've heard that you're the best Chinese Amateur Oracle user
Last game, why the opponent doesn't make high templars and archons?
If you build more zealots with it, the stalkers can't stand still and fight
Harstem i have to admit after discovering uThermal i think he might be the true cheesiest man alive lmao. I was watching him alot when i found him and i saw some ques vs you and you beat him everytime hahaha.
Happens with passwords for me. I can't remember the password but I can type it.
DrogoSmash
did monke olive oil send that medivac empty and get free rent
Harstem's Oracle is at least top 500 in Europe...
Seems viable still. Can we see this refined and attempted again? Maybe merge this with The Bob Build
but all these kinda proofs how imbalanced sc2 is. one should think in a strategy game that doing one unit type thing would always be an easy counter.
dow as example you can mass T2 or even T3 tanks, even titans; and it will be easy mode countered by its actual counter (melters, missiles, heavy plasma etc. but anything not meant to take down heavy big armoured stuff will have next to zero effect and even having maxed out on such will not even be able to take 20% off a T3 heavy armoured anything before its all wiped; bc actual strategy balance);
while in sc2 it doesn't matter; just mass ghost into zerglings, or mines into ultralisk, or ravens into air, or nothing but t1 vs. t3 or other such nonesense and you can still do well with the completely wrong units; which shows that the balance is just not right and counters are simply not strong enough.
as example; banes is supposed to be a hardcounter to mass T1, but yet they die in one grouped shot and easily sniped by the unit they are supposed to counter; so if they where actually created well for a strategy game you would give them ultra armour, making T1 units do no noteworthy dmg; and lower their hp to like 20, meaning that bigger stuff like tank shots that are their counters would oneshot them even with ultralisk armour..
see it's stupid easy and yet bliztard fails all the way... its hard to keep watching year after year after year, where units counters and unit types means less and less and everything need to counter everything just use a thousind apm and all units becomes absurd; banes split and move in ways tanks can only hit one at a time, marines splits perfectly and becomes immune to banes, stalkers becomes impossible to ever kill, workers with mineral walking abuse becomes stupidly strong and can beat almost all melee units, etc..... it just such a sht balance for strategy; which is so damn provoking when the units are there and its just stupid numbers which anyone with a spreadsheet and decent understanding could do better....
You dont get it... It is a mirror matchup, in that case its always viable to mass a single unit.@@Erebus2075
@Erebus2075 I highly recommend you play another game, if you are so frustrated. There are many to pick from. Why are you here?
Void Ray, Mothership and Immortal nerfs killed all the fun of playing Protoss for me.
the lack of any good unit did it for me
Did I hear terran is IMBA during game 3?
I'm not saying mass VR is viable at the highest level, but I think it's a very underrated unit. It beats most air, I think only kiting vikings can beat VR, and I'm not completely sure if that works with teh speed upgrade. It can handle marines if you abuse the terrain effectively.
mutas, phoenixes and vikings all beat voids very easily, plus marines and hydras all destroye them if they don't have very good support, stalkers can struggle cause they are armored, but most of the time they also beat them. And I didn't even talk about spell casters, fungal, para bomb, emp, and archons all annihilate them.
Voids can be good in very specific situations like in the game against disc, but they still suck hard in any normal game
@@norberthiz9318 Marines do not destroy mass VR. They destroy small numbers of VR, but in large numbers the extra range and terran tip it towards VR. Vikings beat anything protoss but they have to build something.
@@AntiDoctor-cx2jd marines murder voids, voids can't stutter step, so the range difference is irrelevant. Voids also don't have armor, so marines do an absolute shit ton of damage to them, while marines take low damage from voids. Just test it, a big marine ball absolutely deletes any amount of void rays with insane efficiency.
obv if you camp behind static d and colossi or disruptor they can't run into it, but that is true for literally every single unit in the game
@@AntiDoctor-cx2jdyou forgot marines have stim and medvac support, along with dps that’s just too good all around.
@@norberthiz9318 the range matters. You are just making stuff up. with terrain and buildings, there's plenty of places that marines can't beat voidrays.
Title is now innaccurate
what if next patch, medivacs can heal mines
Hastem can you make best builds against Zerg and Terran? Trying to climb the ladder and I cannot beat Terran to save my life 😂.
Bro!
Can I send in an Iodis request with this replay pls the void Ray is TO STRONG
The voidray is generally known as one of the weakest units in the game in this patch.
You should add a third counter - total games played. So we could see your cheesy win rate
I made this request at one point in the comments, so I'm taking credit before I even watch it.
70+ Void Rays???? Clickbait Harstem??? you are better than this my guy
I've always found mules bs; free, you get one every minute, collects 225 minerals over it's 1 minute lifespawn so 3 orbitals gives you 6750 minerals over 10 minutes. They also make you auto-win in case of a base trade.
Nah terran is fair.
gg wp
I don't get why Vikings are so slow compared to all other air units. It's like F-35s vs WWI biplanes
For balance. They'd be so OP if they were the speed of a Phoenix with 9 range.
@@ZCasavant
Mate
Phoenix 5.95
Viking 3.85
There is more than a 2.0 speed difference between these units. But I know why you picked the fastest unit in the game for this comparison.
@@quineloe Fine, but they're not slow persay; just slower than Phoenix, Corrupters, and Mutas. They also have better range, because they're meant to combat capital ships, not actually AA fighters. It's for balance.
Why such a short list? They're also slower than warp prisms and void rays. They're slightly faster than Colossi and Tempests, so they can still easily retreat from them. Vikings can only fight if the opponent fights, too.@@ZCasavant
@@quineloe Because of balancing. Range 9. They're faster than anything that outranges them, and slower than anything they outrange. They are fine. Do you want Vikings to be faster?
video before 4 minutes and it have 76 views
322
I actually quit this game because of maphackers. I wish maphacks were forbidden :(
thors > all air u can think off, 0 chance
I quit starcraft along with many others after the voidray buff
thats cool and all but how about some more zerospace and stormgate content. people are tired of SC2.
Please more zerospace !!
No!
@@enymus3081 why not? I thought the video was really entertaining. It performed really well in terms of views and likes. I would think 1 video a week on it would also break pf the metonymy of sc2
nerds.
Hello friends.
1:00 - Don't get me wrong ( Not trying to be angry or anything like that ), but Kyiv has different pronunciation. Its closer to "kih-yeev" (K that is closer to English's K, short I; also kind-of like uh ). Hard to say its pronunciation 100% in a text, so a better way of knowing how to say it is either by opening Wikipedia and listening to Ukranian version of it.
Kiev, and the way how you pronounced it, either refers to 15th century capital of Kievskaya Rus, or Soviet Union "modified" name of the city and not how its officially called in 21th century.
I don't think that WCS and Startcraft 2 existed before 21th century, so ... most likely your story was from Kyiv ;-)
Also, yes, airports get it wrong aswell. They are too lazy to update destination name from Kiev to Kyiv. They still have the old, Soviet-era name for it in most cases. But this is at least more technically-correct, as that was at least somewhat "official" airport city code in 21th century.
it's kiev
It's Kijevas, Kijów, Киев, and Київ. As it has been for a thousand years. Each name equally glorious and beautiful for this gem of a city.
Don't give Muscovy the power of owning your ancestral name.
@@povilzemYes, its all of that. But when you are talking about modern version of it the official way of saying is Kyiv. No one says Londinium ( the predecessor of London ), or Lutetia ( the predecessor for Paris ).
At the same time no one should forget about historic name of a city, but this names should be used when you are talking about past version of a city.
This guy was big into pre-Elon twitter and is definitely on reddit
@@ITechoManI You can thank the Grand Duchy of Lithuania for the existence of your national identity another time, my friend.
In the meanwhile, I'll continue using the traditional Lithuanian name of your capital as I provide quality medical care for the children of your refugees.
first
WP
but all these kinda proofs how imbalanced sc2 is. one should think in a strategy game that doing one unit type thing would always be an easy counter.
dow as example you can mass T2 or even T3 tanks, even titans; and it will be easy mode countered by its actual counter (melters, missiles, heavy plasma etc. but anything not meant to take down heavy big armoured stuff will have next to zero effect and even having maxed out on such will not even be able to take 20% off a T3 heavy armoured anything before its all wiped; bc actual strategy balance);
while in sc2 it doesn't matter; just mass ghost into zerglings, or mines into ultralisk, or ravens into air, or nothing but t1 vs. t3 or other such nonesense and you can still do well with the completely wrong units; which shows that the balance is just not right and counters are simply not strong enough.
as example; banes is supposed to be a hardcounter to mass T1, but yet they die in one grouped shot and easily sniped by the unit they are supposed to counter; so if they where actually created well for a strategy game you would give them ultra armour, making T1 units do no noteworthy dmg; and lower their hp to like 20, meaning that bigger stuff like tank shots that are their counters would oneshot them even with ultralisk armour..
see it's stupid easy and yet bliztard fails all the way... its hard to keep watching year after year after year, where units counters and unit types means less and less and everything need to counter everything just use a thousind apm and all units becomes absurd; banes split and move in ways tanks can only hit one at a time, marines splits perfectly and becomes immune to banes, stalkers becomes impossible to ever kill, workers with mineral walking abuse becomes stupidly strong and can beat almost all melee units, etc..... it just such a sht balance for strategy; which is so damn provoking when the units are there and its just stupid numbers which anyone with a spreadsheet and decent understanding could do better....
this should also be shown to scarlett so their new RTS doesn't make the same mistake (though the ultralisk in that at least doesn't seem to die instantly to T1 bc they look at it funny).
but still again there i see micro being silly good compared to correct composition.
what a wrong blabla
That is not how starcraft works, and it should never work like that.
Harstem didn't just mass a single unit and a move. He played a a very spesific build which forced his opponent to stay on low base counts and have a unit comp that requires good eco to work well, while Harstem was able to expand very rapidly even tho theoretically in a stalker vs void game the stalker player should be the one who gets to expand freely, while the void player is supposed to just turtle. He won the game through execution AND strategy, which is how sc worked since 1998. What you want is to be able to just build the right units and a move with no micro and win. Play aoe if that is what you want because starcraft has always been about excecution first and strategy a close second. It is a REAL TIME strategy game, not a turn based one, so stfu
thank u @@norberthiz9318