Let Men be Men - Because We Believe Men are Great! - Episode 219
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- Опубліковано 10 січ 2024
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Mark Gungor's clip about preferring a dog to a wife who talks to you
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Love recognizes that one’s wife is equally made in the image and likeness of a creative God. She has a brain, gifts, skills, and talents. She was likewise created to have dominion over the earth. A wise loving man recognizes his weaknesses and knows that his wife is not his competitor and her gifts and talents benefit them both.
I remember once doing a Wednesday night "Bible study" at my old church which used material that disparaged the idea of self-esteem; in retrospect, I think they were conflating self-esteem as a psychological concept with the self-esteem movement. They emphasized the idea that the focus on self-esteem bred narcissism in children. I suspect, though, that the authors (as well as other people in my church) wouldn't have recognized that so many popular Christian marriage books are essentially the self-esteem movement for married men.
That’s a good point.
love your unpacking of how the 'let men be men' message infantilises men.
Shock - adult humans can take someone pointing out that they missed a turning, whether the driver is male or female, and getting where you are going is always more important than random circling.
Rebecca should do stand up comedy, I’m dying right now 🤣
Katie is having a baby? 🥹 Congratulations! So happy for your family. Sending so much love. ❤
The decision thing is huge with my husband. One time we were driving in an unfamiliar city and he asked me to help navigate so I did with my phone .My phone said to turn left. He did not believe me and he turned right and we kept circling around! Then he put it in his phone and his phone told him the same thing but this time he turned left. So, this type of man also believes that only his phone is correct! Narcissism is the correct term for someone who always has to be right, no matter what. Everyone else must put their brain in neutral and let them “lead”. Very tragic indeed that so many famous authors are advocating to let men be narcissistic in the name of “biblical leadership”. No, it’s a personality disorder, not a sign of manliness.
Looking at history in general with men denying women this, putting women down about that, etc (and why? What is the why of sexism?), it goes back to male entitlement mentality. This mentality infected the church, and now, men and women read the Bible through the lenses of male entitlement. Conservative religion, any religion but most certainly Christianity, attracts narcissistic men and creates narcissistic men. I hope you and your husband had a conversation about his being disrespectful to you.
Y'all came out swinging for this episode and I am here for it. 💕 Happy new year, indeed.
This was a fantastic podcast! My husband and I were both listening and you two did a great job on this subject.
How much must Grudem and Piper look down on women to come to these ridiculous conclusions? Would do they do about Deborah, Huldah, Priscilla, and Phoebe? God won't hold a wife accountable for a husband's adultery either. These books seem to have been written by male narcissists. Rebecca was hilarious btw!
Conservative religion, any religion but certainly Christianity, is structured for male comfort/male entitlement/male ego and attracts narcissistic men and creates narcissistic men.
Rebecca deserves a medal for this episode!
12:30ish I feel echoes here of the tide of anti-intellectualism that we're struggling with in society generally - people getting upset simply because someone else knows more than them about anything, and demanding that their ignorance be given (at least) equal weight.
Yes, it bears a lot of similarities to that!
Your book GSR has been monumental for me to learn from! This podcast has also been very enlightening. Thank you for sharing this info with the church. I do want to say, though, opening a door for a lady is engrained in me, but not for reasons of superiority, but for reasons of "it's the right thing to do, and a way to show respect and honor for women." Anyway, really enjoying the info you're putting out there. It's a God-send for me! Thanks!
Great points. Esp "Humility is the antidote to a puffed-up ego." I love the book You Are Not What You Think by David Richo.
Modesty In a Country Town
An Uncomfortable Situation
A while ago now, I read an article written by a man who lived in a rural town. He wrote that while living there, money had grown tight, so tight, he’d resorted to buying second-hand clothing, but while wearing his recycled outfit at a function, he gained the uncomfortable feeling that the original owner of the clothes he wore was at the same event and had recognised his clothing. I can relate to this experience because I have also lived in a country town and while there, resorted to second-hand shopping. While at a church event, I also grew uncomfortable when I noticed a woman looking at my outfit with recognition in her eyes. That’s a humbling experience that I hope no one else will ever endure.
This embarrassment reminds me of another fashion faux pas I made while living in that country town. After buying a new outfit, I wore it at church, but as I walked through its foyer, I found that three other women had purchased it also and worn it that same Sunday. Some women wake up in the middle of the night, in a cold sweat, at the thought of wearing the same outfit as even one other woman, so imagine our horror when we discovered we’d become one of four women all wearing the same dress. It’s the stuff of nightmares.
Sharing the Responsibility
The township I lived in had only four clothing stores, so that made buying the same outfit as someone you knew more of a likelihood, and so that’s how those women and I had managed our fashion gaffe. It provided everyone at church that week with a good laugh, but what if wearing the same clothes as multiple other people stopped feeling funny and started feeling scary instead? I say this because while I lived in that town, Australia went through a fashion season where finding “modest” clothing became difficult. It made me wonder, What if our clothing options grow so slim that only one outfit in these four stores meets the modesty rules? Should every woman in town, buy that one outfit and wear it every day, so our town starts resembling a hamlet full of Heaven’s Gate cult members?
Fortunately, things didn’t get that dire because then Boho came in style. Now, those four stores had an abundance of long, loose feminine clothing. It made some women so relieved that I heard a woman on talk-back radio express how happy she felt that young girls now had the option of going back to looking like women again instead of hookers. It made me happy as well because I hated that fad of “immodest” apparel. It increased the frequency and intensity of reprimands and sexual harassment I experienced while younger. It made me wish that guys could get taught that vanity is not the only reason why women wear the clothing that they wear. Sometimes, we don’t have many other options, and during those seasons of fashion, should we all buy the same dress and wear it every day, so our churches start looking like cults?
Sanity Over “Modesty”
1 Timothy 2:9 says women should dress discreetly. Literal Bible app says the word discreetly can mean soundness of mind, good sense or sanity. I venture, that if “modest” clothing options ever become so scarce again that we verge on only having one “modest” option available, having every woman in town wear that one outfit would breach the Bible’s command that women should look of sound mind, of good sense and sane. So, we must teach men, that sexual restraint is a shared responsibility. Some women do what they can to wear “modest” clothing but men also have a responsibility to control themselves. Thankfully, online shopping exists these days. We have so many more options if we can’t find what we want at a brick-and-mortar store, but, even today, not all remote areas have internet access. Some rural areas still only have four or less clothing stores. In these cases, we must show country women leniency and respect, no matter what they’re wearing.
"Become Faramir" - S. W. GREGOIRE
I love this episode so much I’ve listened to it four times already. You hit the nail on the head repeatedly and had me in stitches Plenty of times! Thank you for the work you do!
As a middle-aged divorced guy who has always considered himself egalitarian, and yet did buy into a lot of the teaching these ladies are talking about, (I was a big fan of love and respect, still have the book, I think.), this causes me to do some serious reflection. I've said for years that I would not date a woman who makes a lot more money than me. Honestly, thinking about being in that situation terrifies me. I think the fear is that my partner would use it as a weapon. That may say more about me than any potential partner I would have. The other thing is I'm a guitar player. It would probably feel uncomfortable to be with someone who was a better musician. Again, that probably says more about me than them. I appreciate this podcast because it makes me dig in and do some soul searching
These dudes griping about women giving directions and guidance, obviously never read about Deborah, the JUDGE OF ISRAEL APPOINTED BY GOD. 🤦🏼♀️
"The knight who made it to Kroger" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Whoa. This is 🔥🔥🔥
Subscribed
I only recently saw the 2019 film "Long Shots" on Netflix and Seth Rogan's character is exactly the kind of man we need. Able to change, put in work, make changes and sacrifice for their woman, and put themselves second.
In my experience the "manly" man does not think he is capable at home (nor should he be) nor is he supposed to take any direction from any woman. Not supporting...just saying these men do exist and have these expectations of women being their cheerleader and nothing else as a human. Yes...icky
Many of these books remind me of CS Lewis’ book “Men Without Chests”. The book talks about how in a Relativistic society, people become people pleasers.
If there’s no objective truth to stand for, than the only way we can know we are okay is if others approve of us.
The men in these books are heavily reliant on their wife approving of them. They are men without chests.
Which is funny, since conservatives would typically agree with this book, but somehow don’t see it when they have become part of the people pleasing Relativistic culture.
My church is putting on a man’s study class of what it is to be a man. My hope is that it doesn’t come from a traditional misogynist stance. I will say my church seems to have a good balance on many topics and remain biblically sound and they don’t appear to be the fundamentalist type so there is hope.
I honesty don't know why churches even need this. Why not just talk about how to be Jesus' hands and feet in our community? Why so gendered?
Are the Christian authors trying to get women to push nominal Christian men to maturity because they don't believe the men will do it. The spiritually mature men I know are great men!
confused by your post - agree plenty of spiritually and emotional mature men. But the message from various channels are proclaiming 'real men' as in charge and dominant, and there are those considered spiritually mature who live up (or down) to that version of masculinity. Not sure where that fits with your reference to 'nominal Christian men'
Yeah, I know I have watched some of their presentations. I saw an interview with a Christian woman author, (wish I could remember her name) who stirred the pot when she revealed that research found abuse was high in some Christian circles. She said she wished people would have read more closely what she said. The spiritually mature men were not the ones driving the abuse numbers up. It was the nominal Christian men who were around the teachings of the Bible and knew the vocabulary and even could look mature in public, but are not mature.@@helenr4300
John Piper Rubbish - a woman can design road layouts that direct people but not stand as a police officer directly waving a driver on or not? So it is only when they as a man see a woman in charge then there is a problem, not about who is actually skilled and equipped for the task - only the idea that a woman might be that skilled person, leaves them feeling 'less manly'. Rather than all the men that have no issues with this stuff
So sad that women laughed at mark gungor
I know!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂