Let Men Be Dads! Why Do So Many Evangelical Resources Portray Men as Pathetic Dads? - Episode 221
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
- Join us for Episode 221 of the Bare Marriage podcast, as we ask the question: Why do evangelical resources paint men as pathetic dads?" We're analyzing two big passages from Gary Thomas today, plus some smaller examples. Because we believe men can be amazing dads, and want the church to start painting them that way (rather than portraying them as jealous toddlers vying for the wife's attention).
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"I had room on my plate. My plate got bigger." A great quote, and reminder that us guys can often do a lot more than we think we can!
Wonderful conversation! My husband and I homeschooled our 4 children. We also both worked outside the home. I was envious of all my homeschooling mom friends who got to stay home full time with their children. But what I often saw as a curse of our financial situation, turned out to be a blessing. Because I worked outside the home, my husband stepped it up big time.
He changed diapers. He cooked. He did laundry. He cleaned....well, maybe not so much. And, he helped get the kids ready for church on Sunday mornings while my other mom friends were doing it solo. Their husbands were patiently....not, they were honking the horn....waiting in the car. Consequently they were often late and frazzled while we were always early and ready to worship.
When our youngest child could not be in the church nursery due to severe allergies, we kept him with us in church. He would cry and wiggle around for me, but when my husband held him, for some reason, he was quiet and calm, and often slept through the service. People were amazed. My husband never even considered it a possible solution that I would take our child out of the service while he stayed.
I could go on and on about what a wonderful dad my husband was and is, but I do want to get this in there: if my husband went on a jog and forgot his water, I would chase him down (in the car) and bring it to him. But then I know he would also do the same for me. We take care of each other.
If someone is emotionally triggered and jealous of their own dang kid, that needs to be looked at and worked through because it’s possible it’s some old wounds needs to heal so they can grow tf up and take care of a kid. 🤦🏻♀️
My father was like this. I believe he resented us kids, and we could FEEL it, especially in his rage and spankings.😢
I'm 43 and I still do not have a close relationship with my father. My parents are retired and he has allllll my moms attention now. They are growing and learning but my father....I just wish I knew him more 😢
Thomas's marriage advice has the exact same structure as 90s purity culture--be patient now so that you can have everything you want later. The prosperity gospel carrot continues to be just out of reach. It's sad, really, if the only point of being "godly" now is so that you can earn the right to be selfish.
Great point!
Ironically I am drinking carrot juice and took a sip right as I read your comment! But I totally agree. The carrot is a promise of false success and security that doesn't come from God, but rather agreeable circumstances.
I know I praise Keith all the time for joining in this cause, but can we give it up for Conner too?! I loved the segment with Rebecca and Conner!!! Here’s to good men! 🎉
Part of the "distant father" family arrangement of 50's families had a lot to do with the fact that so many of those dads hadn't processed the trauma of WWII combat and weren't safe or healthy men to be around kids. A lot of the alcohol and cigarettes from that generation was self-medicating. Instead of replicating that family dynamic, we can, and should aspire to do better. Great episode!
That’s a really good point and something which isn’t mentioned nearly enough. Imagine that a family system informed by deep trauma is now being held up as the ideal.
Wow, you might have helped me understand my one grandpa a little better. My aunt shared with me within the last few years that the only time she could remember him giving her a kiss was on her wedding day, and he always came across to me as very cold and strict when I was a kid. But he was also a combat veteran of the European theatre, so he probably saw some stuff.
My mind is being BLOWN. I just can't wrap my mind around where our society has gotten 😢 It's overwhelming!!
But..... GOD.
You all are doing a public service announcement! Things are changing _because of you guys!_
(And the others who've partnered with you!)❤
Hope. This gives me so much HOPE.
Amen
The bedtime with Connor and Vivian was the absolute sweetest!!! Thank you for all you are doing to change the marriage culture. I lived that scenario. My first husband was EXTREMELY jealous of our first son. I lived the scene of the baby crying during sex and my husband expecting me to wait for him to get what he wanted before I could go to my son. Today I am blessed with a wonderful husband.
15:09 "If I want sex, Im not doing enough."
52:24 "We are parents first, together." I love this SO much 💓
This whole show is so good, & so nurturing, but from ~50:00 on it's amazing.
Ugh, I cannot get over the baby crying during sex! How can anyone focus during sex when the baby is crying?! And comparing sex to changing a poopy diaper! Way to tell on yourself dude, you are a bad lover!
Omg the violence of the initial letdown. 😂 Some of us still occasionally experience the sensation of letdown years after weaning! 😅
Yes! 😂
Absolutely love this! I pray that my kids marriages will be so different than what I experienced because they will have this perspective. This is how it should be!
10:30 nail on the head Keith! This was the expectation in my marriage almost 4 years ago, because of the church we attended. The quiet part was actually said out loud, it wasn't implied. It was explictedly taught to new parents.
Oh Queen of Stats Joanna, I wonder how this over-dependent man scenario affects rates of PPD & PPA. 🤔
Bump! I wanna know too! ... although I will say I was supported decently well and still had PPD.
Ugh that clip at the end! 😭
I didn’t have a father like that and went on to have children with a man-child who refused to help parent them with me. It gives me hope that they exist, but it still feels like hunting for unicorns. 😒
This all seems so silly to me now in hind sight. But I was once there with a newborn, in heart failure, a traumatic birth being told I would likely die, stitched up, in pain, learning how to breastfeed, sitting in the chair nursing our two week old son and again my husband told me I needed to put that baby down and save some of me for him. I felt so guilty that I had neglected my husband. Compounding the trauma. Never mind he should have been waiting on me hand and foot.
oh my goodness! I'm so, so sorry. That's awful. Just disgusting. I hope you're in a better place now.
It's really helpful to think of reframing some of these assumptions about marriage, roles, and teamwork. Love the emphasis on working together and growing together!
👏
I was so lucky that my parents were like Rebecca & Conner. They both worked outside of the home, and they both did a balanced share of housework and childcare.
Loved the sweet outro of this episode! ❤
Im sad but oh so free.
This episode brought me to tears.
While my gothardite exhusband was in army recruiting, we had 2 children under 3 and I was pregnant. He resented me for the few times I woke him up at night saying I was a reason recuiting was so stressful for him. Meanwhile Im sick from a Ciprofloxin reaction in and out of the emergency room for panic attacks, passing out at home with small children, my infant had impeded breathing at night, I was passing blood and mucus, my parents having to take me home with them, having to move into a friends basement apt for it to be safer for my children, etc. He says to me you never say how hard it was for me during that time. Oh you mean the infections you went out and found somewhere. . .that was hard Im sure. But also my fault because of my slack in being a wife.
Thank you. Just thank yuall. You are shining the light on evil. And helping us who were made to feel responsible for it, see the injustice and lie for what it was and is.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that!
I had an experience where I was on Ciproflaxin and another antibiotic at the same time and was having bad insomnia, which caused me to start to fall asleep at the wheel one evening when I was driving home from class. Luckily my car starting to veer off the road woke me up and I was only a couple miles from home, but it was scary!! Also had a time while I was on those meds where I had trouble keeping down anything, even water.
Was your husband involved with IBLP pre-military or did he get involved with it while serving? I've heard in one of the videos about IBLP that it used to get pushed to service members and families a lot so was curious if that was your experience.
I'm so happy you finished that quote "...in Azkaban!" lol amazing
Hey Shiela, I watched your speech at the Restore Conference on Julie Roy’s channel. It was fantastic. I know I’ve asked this before but could you please do a collaboration with Brittni De La Mora from Love Always Ministries. That would be an amazing conversation.
Your podcast is just fabulous thank you so much for this!!!!!
I wonder if the husband making the tweet understands that leaving a baby in a dirty diaper for too long can actually hurt the baby's health??
I am glad society as a whole seems to be changing and encouraging men to be more involved as dads. I am also very thankful my husband and I are equal partners and I have faith he will be a good dad when we reach that chapter of our lives, based on how I've seen him with our nephew and friends' kids. Yay for good men!
Another GREAT podcast. You guys have been killing it this January! Keep up the good work. 💪🏻❤️🙏🏻
Excellent thanks very much 👍👍
Just threw away my copy of "Intended for Pleasure". I did not realize that it was on the toxic list. I previously burnt my other toxic books. What are your thoughts for "Intimate Allies" by Dan B. Allender and Tremper Longman? It is the only marriage book still on my shelf.
@elleneebarrett5683 I know you are asking the host specifically this question but from my opinion, Dan Allender's books have bee full of truth, love, and wisdom. I do watch how authors treat and respond to others in their lives around them either through podcasts or videos. Dan has consistently shown grace, kindness, and understanding towards those suffering and seems to have awareness of power dynamics in the world. I believe that Dan has sought to bring to light the atrocities of abuse and he desires that women are treated with dignity and equality.
The advice and attitude displayed in the article is incredibly patronizing.