I actually remember during vanilla destiny 2, everyone saw this massive fish swimming in the methane on titan and thought it was oryx's worm that how somehow ended up here. Man. Hard to believe we got THIS close.
While the glimpses of the leviathan you could see from the surface were most likely ahsa, the shadow on the wall when you were in rooms bellow the surface could still be oryxs worm, after all, it was notably absent from his remains in ghosts of the deep and that shadow was not nearly as large as ahsa is
I remember when the leviathan raid was about to come out, i was talking to some people on LFG and leviathan on fundament was to most people still an obscure reference to the books of sorrow. After it turned out the ship was also named leviathan, i never expected the leviathan species to make an appearance...
@@aljazslemc9569The species Calus based the Leviathan off is different to Ahsa and the other leviathan in the lore books. The Leviathan is based off Torobatls land whales.
@@Cappy_Cat yes i know. I was talking about how when the raid was about to release we didn't know that. And how the leviathans of fundament really sort of took a back seat and it didn't seem like they'd be back till we got to see a rib in Rhulk s pyramid
Something I'm picking up from this is that the original leviathan/proto-worm species also formed bonds with other lifeforms, but the sword logic turned what was once a beneficial relationship into a one-sided parasitic one. Makes me wonder what the original nature of these partnerships was, and if we'll eventually find out via Sloane.
Mutualism to parasitism? That makes a lot of sense to me. Like how the eliksni house of gentle weavers became the house wolves. Bringing out the worst in a species
At this point it's looking like the had the same ancestor(s) but ended up following a couple of different paths, Like Humans -> Humans, Awoken, and Exo.
@Akuma Imayaruk seems like it the protoworms accepted the traveler and became the leviathan Some who fled became ahmkara Those who stayed and fought accepted the deep
She's not the same Levi Rhulk injured on Fundament, that's for sure. Her mentioning the Disciple of Fear striking is during the Collapse so it sounds like it's Nezarec
true, the leviathan was killed by the hive long before the traveler came to sol. the leviathan was seemingly gifted some form of the light by the traveler
It would actually make sense in context why the Leviathan of Fundament was guarding the Worm Gods. As well as why The Witness sent Rhulk to retrieve and subjugate the remaining Worm Gods. They were the last members of their species still remaining on Fundament. The rest rendered each other to extinction, save Ahsa who fled via the Ascendant Realm to a far away and safe locale. At one point, Fundament must've been bustling with a great deal of Leviathans who seemed to possess incredible paracasual powers (such as accessing the Ascendant Realm). At some point however, The Witness must have reached out through the Ascendant Realm through the Darkness...and whispering to some of the species to embrace the Sword Logic. They underwent their own transformation similar to the Kril and Hive. In fact, it's almost a mirror of the two species. This may also explain how when the Osmium siblings ingested the Worm God larva and became gods they were able to create Throne Worlds. Because the Worms/Leviathans had a deep connection to the Ascendant Realm to begin with. Which also explains why when Oryx slew Akka, created the tablets of Ruin (and the Dreadnought), he could effectively communicate with The Witness more clearly and learn to take.
They did not gain Throne Worlds upon receiving their larva. The sisters didn't even gain access to the ascendant plane at first. After liberating the Osmium Dynasty they then had to slaughter the city of Kaharn so that the Worm gods could open an ascendant portal for them to get to the moons of Fundament. It would take much more killing before Auryx accidentally created a throne world without knowing, and ended up there when betrayed by Savathun.
Glad to see some of the community’s theories on what Ahsa was still have some merit. If Ahsa really is a proto worm god it will be interesting to see what “gifts” she will be able to lend us.
@@qasidfarooqi9821 that is true! She has given a number of things so far. But if that’s a sample maybe she could give even greater ones, like reversing the taken corruption?
@@Drizztbc remember, oryx took the knowledge of taking from akka, the worm god of secrets. maybe ahsa will have knowledge of taking or something similar. it might be how sloane got all creepy with no one else around to take her. (though maybe when titan was taken she got infected.)
Well, the Leviathan and Ahsa could be the same species. It's possible the Leviathan and the worm gods are the same species, but the darkness warped the worms. If so, that would lend itself to the idea that the side opposed to the Witness did indeed win the war. The Leviathan, as a general or leader, then guarded the corrupt worms until the siblings showed up.
@@TheSuperRatt remember the traveler was going to uplift the hive what if the pre corrupted worm gods were on ancient fundament and the witness got to them first before the traveler got there or the other species grew on fundament and after the worm gods became the worm gods they got wiped by the last surviving uncorrupted of their species the leviathan hence why rhulk had to fight it to get to the thing it took and to get the larvae it laid as a trap for the siblings to start their voyage into darkness the witness saw his first attempt to corrupt fundament failed so instead of losing it to the traveler it set things in motion to try again and this time it not only succeeded but got a 2 for one via the worm gods coming back from the ones imprisoned by the leviathan hell its possible some early one escaped the civil war and became ahamkhara too given their natures but basically fundament got fucked by the witness twice it would make assha a proto leviathan probably and mean the love and light she chased was the traveler trying to find it to stag close to it for safety possibly her own species having been uplifted in a way by it then the witness corrupting them like its own species got corrupted (spoiler sorry but it is coming and its a doozy)
I think Ahsa can make Hive worm type pacts, but instead of giving a hive power and draining it of life overtime, Ahsa's is the opposite. She wants love and to be known in exchange for giving their bonded person life
Ahsa imples that her species were the first "victims" of the Witness. I think it is clear that the Worm Gods killed all of Asha's species, as they 'survived' (and thus the strongest, according to the Sword Logic) But not strong enough to leave Fundament, as one, more powerful than they kept them there, (the Leviathan) until the three siblings of the Osmium Dynasty arrived and made their bargain in turn.
@@zacharyhansen9103 Ya it would have made no sense for The Witness to come back for the Krill/Hive after dealing with the "Worm Gods" and moving onto find Rhulk
In the garden before time there were dragonflies (ahamkara) and worms (leviathans) that buzzed and dug around the tree of silver wings. I hope we get the full connection to all this soon, especially with the tree.
Also, could “aiat” be the leviathans version of the anthem anatheme? Or their way of calling upon it? Didn’t we have lore that directly stated that the worms and ahamkara didn’t evolve from one another but alongside each other? I wouldn’t try and keep looking to connect the two species but rather their origins as separate species, instead.
Unfortunately Irish has about four or five "correct" pronunciations given accents and regional dialects, but I'd pronounce Síocháin along the lines of She-ock-awn. The í and á are longer vowel sounds than the regular vowel, and ch is the equivalent of a k as it's one of those letters we don't have in the Irish alphabet. Pretty good attempt though 👍
Scottish Gaelic is similar - it's fascinatingly frustrating how many variations there are with accents and dialects, and how many letters and syllables we're used to in English that simply don't exist, lol "Is that a silent letter or a phlegmy sound?" "What does that flick mean..?" lol
I love Byf’s tone when reading lore tabs. It’s an amazing way to keep someone interested, and there’s a clear sense of professionalism in how it’s narrated
Honestly, it seems like Ahsa has some connection to taken energy. She might even be the species who controlled said taken energy before the Witness found the energy to take to pass it to the Taken King. If Ahsa does use taken energy for her own purposes all be it good purposes, does that mean the ability to take is something that stems from the deep itself and these species are the origin of the taken energy. It seems to be heading in this direction I think. Just like Light and Darkness, Stasis, Strand so on they can all be used for good and bad. I think this is also true for the taken energy. I also think the source of the taken energy is something their species held and the "Calcified version" of this energy is impure taken energy that can bend people's will, hence the statues. It would make sense. I don't think Slone is inherently in danger of being taken. I think it's just a way to access the ascendant plane for para-causal beings. Ahsa might be para-causal herself. She may have knowledge of the universe. Hell with this line of thinking it could now give more context to what actually happened to the exodus black. It makes no sense that that event was the witnesses doing. I ultimately think now after seeing this, it was Ahsa. That was the connection before the collapse she is talking about. The connection to queen mara sov before she became the awoken queen. This could make sense. Especially the connection to the ascendant plane that the awoken have. Stay with me here, I think to pass through the gate, we will have to make use of the taken energy. Think about it. If what Ahsa uses is taken energy then it would make sense for the witness to use something similar. Maybe the Veil is the origin of all para-causal power in the universe. Whatever energy/power the Witness possesses is not what the taken energy is supposed to be. Maybe now that energy is so corrupted it bends the laws of time and space itself connecting past to future. It's the echos of the never where. The final shape.
This week I've noticed some spots on Ahsa that look like those small "puddles" of taken energy that don't damage you, the one's that look like shimmering pools of blackness and stars. One up above her eye and another to the right and down a little. Also, she seems to have electricity or arc pulses across parts of her at times too. She very much could be a being of Light and Dark, wielding both in some measure. Her Telepathic nature is very much darkness related after all, however being alive is enough to have some measure of Light within her as well. As she is so big, it's probable she has quite a sizable core of Light compared to other living organisms. Her eye is very similar to the veil, both in size and it's iris design. The Disciple of Fear, Nezerac, very well could have been the one to take her left eye during the collapse. This fight probably occurred near the Exodus ship Mara was on, Ahsa possibly was attempting to flee and reached out to Mara or her exodus ship for help. The Traveller possibly intervened with it's "Life Beam" attack making an initial connection to Ahsa's left eye, Traveller to Veil rather than Veil to Traveller, which created the Awoken realm by accident in an attempt to save the ship. The Traveller probably suffered damage from a resonance based feedback from Nezeracs ship through Ahsa's now dislodged left eye. Shortly after this, Savathûn likely enacted her betrayal, hid his ship on Luna and pinned the blame on Nezerac to maintain her appearance of Loyalty to the Witness. Claiming Nezerac took Ahsa/the veil elsewhere to use it to cause more pain and fear to out grow the Witness's power. She probably almost left the Witness no choice but to leave Savathûn, under the direct supervision of Rhulk, to keep watch over the Traveller and ensure it doesn't escape. That and wait for Oryx to Arrive to finish off humanity, which resulted in his demise.
@@soulsurvivor8293 Exactly. I also believe this energy will be used to accidentally bring Cayde back when going through the portal using the taken energy. It makes a lot of sense.
This all makes perfect sense even the glow on travelers chosen matches what ahsa has and cayde in the trailer has I'm wondering if the power to take wasn't somehow perverted by the witness or the deep
From what I understand as a veteran player we were supposed to take the mantle of taken king after slaying oryx and we didn’t and hear me out real quick what if our next subclass is taken i dont think it’s impossible for us to take over and completely wrest control of the taken and all of its capabilities from the witness cuz with how strongly we are connected to the light And how strong willed an individual we are we could very well take his stuff from him cuz he’s just using the darkness like us whose to say the darkness hasn’t been trying to rebel against the witness the entire time and that’s why we’ve been advancing so rapidly with darkness powers because we are a contender to stop him permanently he is so focused on keeping us distant from him that appears to me hes actually worried about an encounter with us at the stage of development we’re at. This is just something I’ve been thinking about. Cuz I’m noticing little under tones and hints that indicate we are just rapidly gaining strength and yet the traveler is done how is it the witness has done what he did and yet our light seems to have gotten stronger not weaker and has continued to evolve more now than when it was alive. These little shifts in tone I can’t ignore I will say the AI tweak Bungie did is pretty welcome cuz now they feel a bit more lore accurate to how strong they are especially the hive.
Ahsa is to the worm gods, just as the krill are to the Hive. No wonder she looked so similar in her silhouette. She looks like a giant version of a larval worm
I think Asha, the Worm Gods and Ahamkara shared a common ancestor before evolving into what they are now. Asha is a positive symbiotic relationship with the one she bonded with, in the case of Sloane. The Worm Gods was parasitic in nature, demanding violence in exchange for immortality and power or be eaten from the inside. Ahamkara in their relationships with [hosts] feed on desire wishes that they grant…but not without it possibly becoming a monkey’s paw in the process. They all have in common is the need of another being as a host or partner in some way to sustain their lives. Anyone else have anything to add in speculative stuff?
Just want to say I love the extra little commentary throughout the readings. I often listen to these while doing other things and it’s easy to get lost in some of the lore excerpts. The little clarifications when things are being presented a bit indirectly are super helpful.
Yep, apparently Reed was killed by the Witness during the short battle above Earth. Aisha seems to be taking it slowly, but Shayura is still coming to terms with it, and trying to make sense of the grey view Guardians have adopted in wielding Darkenss and Light in balance since Beyond Light. It seems like she’d been visited by a follower of Osiris’ cult in the Tower. Osiris may not care at all about his followers who twisted his words long ago. But, he could be the best person to teach Shayura that Darkness and Light are not necessarily defined as good or bad, but rather forces of nature and the immaterial.
Now this brings new meaning to the levithan giving Oryx and her sisters a warning meant. He was what ever Ahsa is, and saw what the curse of the deep could do.
If the Disciple of Fear (Nezarec, almost certainly) attacked Ahsa during the collapse, that means Eramis is the only (known) Disciple of the Witness to never have interacted with any sort of Leviathan.
Hey byf, what if the bond ahsa had before the collapse was with Sloane's past life? I know it's pretty up in the air, but this is destiny improbable is not impossible
I’ve always wondered why “Oh (noun) mine.” Came across as affectionate from such cruel creatures. Given Ahsa’s emphasis on love and family it was probably meant as a sort of bonding ritual.
Tbh I think the Leviathan is what you get if you give a member of Ahsa's species the Light, just as Worm Gods are what happens if they embrace the Darkness. Ahsa in my opinion is a member of the base species that never received the blessings of either the Light or the Darkness.
BYF!! Bro, major congrats on a million, thx for always piecing the story's together for the community and delivering it in such a complete and captivating fashion.
That makes her millions of years old. I never thought that the Leviathan and Worms could even have been the same species which makes perfect sense now I think about it. Why would it be guarding the worms from discovery if it didn't have history with them? So many mysterious to be solved it's insane
Anyone else see the couple of taken looking specs on Ahsa this week? One was on their eyebrow area... did not notices it there last week but might have missed it.
Sky: Leviathans Neutral: Ahamkara Deep: Worms What if they’re all the same species but are changed based on their alignment? It would explain why the Vanguard purged the Ahamkara, as each is a potential enemy if claimed by the Deep and the Vanguard was probably unaware of Leviathans at the time.
The Great Hunt seems to have been Mara's idea- and likely aided by Riven. Mara had wished for a unique, one-sided source of power that would advantage her against future enemies, and Riven granted it by orchestrating the destruction of all other Ahamkara
@@raynmoriit was a joint operation. Mara had her reasons, and the Vanguard was sick of Guardians making wishes that ended up getting turned around on them.
Hey Byf Call it a footnote of 14:06 In one of the seasonal armour lore tabs (for Warlock at least) there’s an entry where Sloane is having a vision of a golden age scientist. He is the one who formed that original bond with Ahsa. Siochain then confirms it’s not a vision but a temporal anomaly because the space at which she’s seeing this golden age ‘vision’ occur in has the same atmospheric conditions of golden age Titan.
Her being a proto-worm god is clear IMO, she is referred as "worm" in the story many times and she certainly can bestow gifts, as we see in the deep dive missions. Her kind also seemed to know the "magics" that were forbidden before being changed by The Witness
I think savathun was the one who hid the planets because each of the returning ones and the discovery of neo muna were all places where there was a potential ally or weapon against the witness. Savathun is not a friend by any definition but I think she really was trying to keep the traveler out of the hands of the witness so that whats happened with the veil may never have happened. In the same regard I think she hid ahsa who warned the krill against the deep in the first place.
I posted a similar comment on Mylens video, but just a random thought, isnt there a lore entry from Vow about Rhulk going down and meeting the OG worm gods. Where he beats up and steals a rib of the leviathan, and then ends up "stealing" the mother worm thats in the raid? I swear thats in an item entry or lore book somewhere, which also implied that the Witness did tell Rhulk to go down there and do stuff at one point. Whats now a bit confusing is if what I said is true (again someone fact check me) I'm not sure I get the timeline of Ahsa's species getting corrupted > turned into worm gods > "trapped" > and then Rhulk showing up, especially if the witness and one of its disciples knew they were there. I also dont remember if they ever describe what the worms look like when Rhulk first finds them and enslaves/converts/corrupts them. The entry on the ghost about Ahsa's backstory could just be her perspective of this event. Rhulk doing whatever he did to the other worms her family, stealing the mother worm and Ahsa barely gets away. And whatever Rhulk ends up doing to them alters their appearance into what we know them to look like now
it's likely that during the fighting over sword logic, the worm gods lost a battle to the remaining proto worms and were imprisoned and rhulk later freed them
At the start of the season I had the theory, that maybe Ahsa, was the mysteriously unknown other disciple from the RON lorebooks. Where they were questioning the final shape, maybe that's why Ahsa left and it would explain why Ahsa knows so much about the witness. But I like this video.
I'm loving the lore this season I really hope that Ahsa's species is related to the leviathan perhaps the Leviathan was their mother or their Alpha of sorts this would be really interesting as a parellell the Leviathan fought till the very end meanwhile Xita was quick to become subservient to the witness
I’m surprised you didn’t speculate on the “bond” Ahsa made during the Collapse. My notion is that Ahsa and Savathun bonded…Savathun helped Ahsa escape Fundament via the Veil.
@@aidenfanucci9523Is it the cold comfort rocket launcher you're talking about? It's about how some scientists try to escape the collapse in a submarine and Ahsa comes to them so they don't die alone.
The "disciple of fear" is likely in reference to Rhulk. As the first disciple of the Witness, he was there when the Witness came for Ahsa's race and Fundament. He also struck a leviathan in the deep, likely in reference to Ahsa herself, who was wounded by Rhulk and then fled.
the leviathan was later killed by the hive and fed to their worm gods, ahsa is a different worm, and the only disciple known for fear or nightmares is nezerac
I always wondered why Saladin referred to Ahsa as an 'outcast worm' during Deep Dives. That kind of came out of nowhere, since it's not said or mentioned in any cutscene or line of dialogue previous to it, and I only got the Ghost shell recently.
In the new trial ship, you can see one of shayuras fireteam, reed-7, was one of the casualties in the one cutscene where the witness cuts all the ships into pieces
I was under the impression that Ahsa and the Leviathan were the same. That Rhulk is the disciple of fear and Nezarec of pain, and the rib bone in Rhulks ship was Ahsa's from perhaps around the time she fled Fundament.
I think Ahsa is a uncorrupted worm if I remember correctly in my first deep dive after doing the two pressure challenges I think Drifter or Zavala said something "Can you believe an outcast worm" I think she is one and I want to protect her even more after hearing her story now
i would like to point out that at 10:45 the quote says "A solar opposite to that which Takes love." it could be a type, of course, but the fact that shes from fundament and refers to something as capital T take makes me think of oryx. could just be reference to him, but its gettin my gears spinning for sure
oryx at the time of the events of fundament was then known as Aurash and didn't have taken abilities yet, the witness seemed to have had taken abilities though
Disciple of fear, while it’s probably nezarec I would like mention an old call back to season of splicer, Skira. The evil that haunted the elksni before the traveler but was defeated when the elksni stopped being afraid because skira fed on fear.
@Girth Check I'm thinking Bungie is going to reveal that the Worm Gods and the Ahamkara evolved from whatever race Ahsa is. Over millions of years, they became distinct species. What Ahsa said about "Magics deemed too cruel" could be the possessive "O, (noun), mine" pact magic also used by Savathûn and the Worm Gods.
@mkultra2958 so ahsa is the base form and the worm gods are darkness evolved the ahamkara are the light evolved? She said she ran away and it seems like she's the only one who didn't go dark but I guess we don't know for sure
This subplot is becoming so incredibly interesting. The one thing that doesn’t add up for me is Ahsa describes she was struck by “the disciple of fear”, which to me also suggests Nezarec. But the Vow of Disciple lore tells us it was Rhulk who wounded the Leviathan (assumably Ahsa) in the depths of Fundament and displayed one of its ribs in his pyramid ship. I suppose it could have been another leviathan, and not Ahsa, that Rhulk assailed. But if nothing more this passage suggests that both Nezarec and Rhulk visited Fundament and made contact with the Worm Gods and Leviathan, and this is absolutely tantalizing storytelling as you put it, Mr. Byf. I want MORE.
Ahsa is not the Leviathan, she may be one of Leviathan's species, but she's not it. The Leviathan was killed by hive on one of Fundament's moons, where it fled.
Hey Byf! So real fast there's a giant sea monster in Ghost of the Deep dungeon. If you look in the distance in the drill shaft room you can see a massive creature.
I was really hoping after what they did in Light Fall that carrying The Whisper of the Worm sniper would have had us hearing Xol during some of the story, seeing as the gun has his soul. No dice though.
I'm really starting to feel like that Ahsa's race were once one. But because of the Witnesses and the war they evolved into different species. Ahsa is what the species once was. Some of them became worm gods bound to the Witness and the darkness and the rest became the Ahamkara cursed with the O mine paracausal trap. If Asha states that she is the last of her species she could be talking about the original species. There are still hive god worm left and the Ahamkara are now extinct with he death of Riven.
Honestly, i think the Leviathan species is what Ahsa is. It might have been that she was a young one and chose to flee instead of fighting family. Perhapse her dads friend was the one who survived and beat the Hive Worms of the Deep down and locked them away for their betrayal. If so, not only is she the most ancient being we know of in Sol but also the lone survivor of the Witness, the only being we have access to that might know the Witness' weakness or have the power to overcome the witness/what we need to traverse the triangle portal....
I belive it is one of the pieces of seasonal armour reveals ahsa's first bond, it's with a marine biologist. During the golden age, she tried to warn him and others about the witness.
I’ve been saying for years that all these paracausal worms and dragons and such are the same thing but morphed by the surrounding energies. Glad we’re finally getting around to that.
I reckon if Ahsa is a proto worm god, she may be the one to give us our 3rd darkness subclass. And that might be a pre witness version of hive magic. I can see something happening with our skills and abilities in that subclass getting stronger in different ways for killing enemies in certain ways for a set period of time (emulating the sword logic). For instance: if you kill 3 or more enemies with a single ability, you gain one temporary charge for that ability. Once the extra charge is used, it goes away, and this skill is put on a short cooldown. Could be a very fun idea to play with.
The witness came from an ancient tribe of desert nomads who originally found the traveler. They got mad it didn't give them "purpose" so they found the veil and tried to stick it in the traveler. Traveler said pce out and left. All the desert nomads got angry and combined themselves to make the witness and proceeded to go on a "if I can't have it, no one can" tantrum. Cursing and culling every species that comes into contact with big white ball.
This season is what Destiny is really all about, mystery for the community to think and converse about the story as it goes forward...I'm hoping Ahsa knows something about the Va~ joking but maybe she may know something. It would be cool if Bungie gives us more story to compliment the events in Lightfall and justify what we think were shortcomings, hopefully it makes us appreciate the campaign later.
We know that Traveller was in fact near Fundament, and was in contact with Hive(at least Savathun), maybe he was in contact with Ahsa's species aswell and maybe Leviathan is what came of it. Traveller gave him power to contain Worm Gods and well, guard them. So even without the ghost Leviathan probably was akin to Guardians, transformed by light and guarding what remained of their species. Maybe he hoped Traveller can reverse what has been done to them, but for the moment being he was jsut guarding them. They obviously could not overpower him(not without help they got from Hive later), so he could kill them if he really wanted, but he refrained from it. The main reason for this might be hope that they can be cured, drive to save his species. So he stayed to guard them, Ahsa fled to ascendant plane, but other defectors? Maybe they left with traveler, followed him around, and eventually transformed into Ahamkara. Bonds and pacts are very tied to this species nature, and even Ahsa who is not transformed talks about bond as something of utter importance to her. P.S. Words about "garden" "nomads" "travelers" "planting seeds of hope". Can we entertain a thought that Traveller might be not one of his kind? My head canon for a long time is that in fact Traveller is not uniqe, but he might be the last. Even wilder thought: Pyramid ships are Travellers that were hunted down by Witness and transformed by his will, can be something tied to Taking.
I wonder if Ahsa could potentially give new powers to those eho bond with her like the worm gods gave to the osmium sisters.. Because that in conjunction with having Savathun's body at hand could lead to interesting situations..
We have both Oryx'x and Savathun's body at the moment. IF we also kill Xivu Arath and get her body, what are we going to do with all that unoccupied power? Maybe take their power for ourselves or maybe Ahsa can do something with worm infected species?
something I’ve noticed but haven’t heard discussed, is how ahsas’ eye shimmers and contracts/expands when she’s speaking through the deputy commander, it even mentions this happening a few other times(i think) in lore from this season talking about how ahsa helped her survive all this time. Isn’t this yet another similarity between the worm gods, or *proto-worm gods, and the ahamkara? ahamkaras’ shimmering eye is what would betray their wish magic when it was in play, if I remember correctly. damn forsaken was a long time ago lol. anyways, is this making sense to anyone?
I wonder if the Leviathan may have also been of the original Worm God species, but couldn't bring itself to kill the Worm Gods (maybe they were family?) and so it contained them in the depths of Fundament instead.
Could the Leviathan have been the mother/father of the proto worms? They rejected the witness but couldnt fight their sons and daughters when the conflict broke out. When the worms that won turned into the worm gods that we know, they vowed to contain them on fundament. The worm gods had to then, essentially create the hive to leave and continue the witness' design?
When I heard Ahsa name for a brief moment I thought about the end of the Insight Terminus Strike where ghost says who is Ahsa? I went a replayed the strike and the spelling is Oxa so I guess no relation, but still one of Destiny's mysteries they have never explained, or I've missed it. Great content as always Byf!!
that is INSANE - because that means the Leviathan likely couldn't speak or communicate long enough with the Krill Siblnings because their whole race likely has a more limited ability to communicate in ways that most other ones understand it? so you have reasoning for why the Leviathan was on Fundament (it's the Proto-Worms planet), why he was guarding the Worm Gods (to keep the Sword Logic from spreading but also out of love, a desire not to kill the last of his kind and hope they could change), and why he couldn't simply tell the siblings why and what was going on. Still curious about what Aiat means... But man... Poor Ahsa... The loving worm and possibly the last of her kind...
hey byf, have you ever considered uploading your lore videos as podcasts? i love to listen to them in the background and spotify or other platforms would be a great way to do that.
And we where able to see her YEARS ago as a small secret traversing Titan. Not knowing anything more than "big seamonster" and speculations. If this really whas bungies plan all along, man, thats cool.. Im looking forward to whats ahead!
Has it been retconned or is there still a sandworm on the Cabal Homeworld called the Leviathan that Calus’ ship is based off of? Also, love how Sloan’s Ghost is ready to cut-a-bitch 🤣
Reckon it's not just worm gods that came from her species. I bet the wish dragon are also a off shot as well, they chased the traveller instead. Asha is the original and neutral in a sense.
With Siochain, I'm pretty sure that Sloan does say the Ghost's name in game. I think Destiny Lore Vault has the clip but I'm not 100% sure. All I am sure on is that the name has been said in game.
Now I'm wondering why Rhulk would have had to fight the Leviathan, and remove one of its ribs, in order to reach and conscript the Worm Gods if they were proto-Worms that had already been corrupted by the Witness in the first place.
Could be like mass effect where the reapers indoctrinated the Protheons and they fought each other which resulted in the collapse of the species? The darkness indoctrinated the proto-worms and caused a faction split?
![[ FREE ] Future Type Beat 2024 “Future”](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sF96cGMa4EM/mqdefault.jpg)
I actually remember during vanilla destiny 2, everyone saw this massive fish swimming in the methane on titan and thought it was oryx's worm that how somehow ended up here. Man. Hard to believe we got THIS close.
While the glimpses of the leviathan you could see from the surface were most likely ahsa, the shadow on the wall when you were in rooms bellow the surface could still be oryxs worm, after all, it was notably absent from his remains in ghosts of the deep and that shadow was not nearly as large as ahsa is
I remember when the leviathan raid was about to come out, i was talking to some people on LFG and leviathan on fundament was to most people still an obscure reference to the books of sorrow. After it turned out the ship was also named leviathan, i never expected the leviathan species to make an appearance...
@@aljazslemc9569The species Calus based the Leviathan off is different to Ahsa and the other leviathan in the lore books. The Leviathan is based off Torobatls land whales.
@@jacobgeist6580 I think the leviathan we see through the glass is the one you see when going from the first boss to the final boss in the new dungeon
@@Cappy_Cat yes i know. I was talking about how when the raid was about to release we didn't know that. And how the leviathans of fundament really sort of took a back seat and it didn't seem like they'd be back till we got to see a rib in Rhulk s pyramid
Something I'm picking up from this is that the original leviathan/proto-worm species also formed bonds with other lifeforms, but the sword logic turned what was once a beneficial relationship into a one-sided parasitic one. Makes me wonder what the original nature of these partnerships was, and if we'll eventually find out via Sloane.
Mutualism to parasitism? That makes a lot of sense to me. Like how the eliksni house of gentle weavers became the house wolves. Bringing out the worst in a species
Reminds me a lot of the Ahamkara, they were parasitic in nature as well
@@iponce2 yeah it makes sense
@@aksis7187 Ahamkara seem more like a symbiote than a parasite though.
this might also give us insight to what happens to a worm after the host dies, though in ahsa's case it is different
Great, now I need to know the full connection between Ahamkara, the Worms, Ahsa(proto-Worms), and the Leviathan.
I think the Leviathan must have been another proto-worm who rejected the Deep and was blessed with the Light/Sky.
At this point it's looking like the had the same ancestor(s) but ended up following a couple of different paths, Like Humans -> Humans, Awoken, and Exo.
@Akuma Imayaruk seems like it the protoworms accepted the traveler and became the leviathan
Some who fled became ahmkara
Those who stayed and fought accepted the deep
Personally, I'm still praying the ahamkara are unrelated to the worm gods... They're just cooler separated.
Everyone is asking who is Ahsa, but not how is Ahsa 😢
Fish. 🐟
Or why is Ahsa???
But why is Asha
Or whence is Ahsa.
Or AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHsa
She's not the same Levi Rhulk injured on Fundament, that's for sure. Her mentioning the Disciple of Fear striking is during the Collapse so it sounds like it's Nezarec
true, the leviathan was killed by the hive long before the traveler came to sol. the leviathan was seemingly gifted some form of the light by the traveler
It would actually make sense in context why the Leviathan of Fundament was guarding the Worm Gods. As well as why The Witness sent Rhulk to retrieve and subjugate the remaining Worm Gods.
They were the last members of their species still remaining on Fundament. The rest rendered each other to extinction, save Ahsa who fled via the Ascendant Realm to a far away and safe locale.
At one point, Fundament must've been bustling with a great deal of Leviathans who seemed to possess incredible paracasual powers (such as accessing the Ascendant Realm). At some point however, The Witness must have reached out through the Ascendant Realm through the Darkness...and whispering to some of the species to embrace the Sword Logic. They underwent their own transformation similar to the Kril and Hive. In fact, it's almost a mirror of the two species.
This may also explain how when the Osmium siblings ingested the Worm God larva and became gods they were able to create Throne Worlds. Because the Worms/Leviathans had a deep connection to the Ascendant Realm to begin with.
Which also explains why when Oryx slew Akka, created the tablets of Ruin (and the Dreadnought), he could effectively communicate with The Witness more clearly and learn to take.
They did not gain Throne Worlds upon receiving their larva. The sisters didn't even gain access to the ascendant plane at first. After liberating the Osmium Dynasty they then had to slaughter the city of Kaharn so that the Worm gods could open an ascendant portal for them to get to the moons of Fundament. It would take much more killing before Auryx accidentally created a throne world without knowing, and ended up there when betrayed by Savathun.
Glad to see some of the community’s theories on what Ahsa was still have some merit. If Ahsa really is a proto worm god it will be interesting to see what “gifts” she will be able to lend us.
aren't her 'gifts' the blessings she gives us in the seasonal activities?
@@qasidfarooqi9821 that is true! She has given a number of things so far. But if that’s a sample maybe she could give even greater ones, like reversing the taken corruption?
@@Drizztbc remember, oryx took the knowledge of taking from akka, the worm god of secrets. maybe ahsa will have knowledge of taking or something similar. it might be how sloane got all creepy with no one else around to take her. (though maybe when titan was taken she got infected.)
@@ZamersYTno, she got infected because she chose to be infected. She said it in the first week.
Right now her gifts seem limited to 300% dodge speed and a 10% heavy weapon damage boost
I'm a free to play player and I love experiencing the lore of the universe through your videos. Thanks :)
What do you play on?
@@jasonadams7878 UA-cam lol
@@apockypocky2345 lmaoo
Well, the Leviathan and Ahsa could be the same species. It's possible the Leviathan and the worm gods are the same species, but the darkness warped the worms. If so, that would lend itself to the idea that the side opposed to the Witness did indeed win the war. The Leviathan, as a general or leader, then guarded the corrupt worms until the siblings showed up.
dont forget rhulk showing up and having a tussle w the leviathan probably weakening it to where it couldnt stop the siblings
Leviathan's looks like Calus "leviathan" (source - grenade launcher from "Eater of the worlds")
@@DanKitagawa And Ahsa looks nothing like a Worm God. Means it's still plausible they descend from the same common ancestor.
@@TheSuperRatt we see how looks ahsa in ghosts of the deep. It's worm.
@@TheSuperRatt remember the traveler was going to uplift the hive
what if the pre corrupted worm gods were on ancient fundament and the witness got to them first before the traveler got there or the other species grew on fundament and after the worm gods became the worm gods they got wiped by the last surviving uncorrupted of their species the leviathan
hence why rhulk had to fight it to get to the thing it took and to get the larvae it laid as a trap for the siblings to start their voyage into darkness
the witness saw his first attempt to corrupt fundament failed
so instead of losing it to the traveler it set things in motion to try again and this time it not only succeeded but got a 2 for one via the worm gods coming back from the ones imprisoned by the leviathan
hell its possible some early one escaped the civil war and became ahamkhara too given their natures
but basically fundament got fucked by the witness twice
it would make assha a proto leviathan probably
and mean the love and light she chased was the traveler trying to find it to stag close to it for safety possibly her own species having been uplifted in a way by it then the witness corrupting them like its own species got corrupted (spoiler sorry but it is coming and its a doozy)
I don't believe the worm gods "Evolve" pre say, it's more likely that they were transformed by darkness like Calus or Rulk.
I think Ahsa can make Hive worm type pacts, but instead of giving a hive power and draining it of life overtime, Ahsa's is the opposite. She wants love and to be known in exchange for giving their bonded person life
Ahsa imples that her species were the first "victims" of the Witness. I think it is clear that the Worm Gods killed all of Asha's species, as they 'survived' (and thus the strongest, according to the Sword Logic) But not strong enough to leave Fundament, as one, more powerful than they kept them there, (the Leviathan) until the three siblings of the Osmium Dynasty arrived and made their bargain in turn.
The Worm Gods gained strength enough to leave when they bonded with the Krill.
Ahsa is referring to something else when she speaks of the first victims of the Witness. It is cleared up in the leaked cutscene.
I don’t think that they would be The Witness’ first victims given how Rhulk existed before them.
@@zacharyhansen9103 Ya it would have made no sense for The Witness to come back for the Krill/Hive after dealing with the "Worm Gods" and moving onto find Rhulk
@@ulyssespeterson6821 That's spoilers. The scene is in the game, yes, but it has yet to play out in game.
In the garden before time there were dragonflies (ahamkara) and worms (leviathans) that buzzed and dug around the tree of silver wings. I hope we get the full connection to all this soon, especially with the tree.
Also, could “aiat” be the leviathans version of the anthem anatheme? Or their way of calling upon it? Didn’t we have lore that directly stated that the worms and ahamkara didn’t evolve from one another but alongside each other? I wouldn’t try and keep looking to connect the two species but rather their origins as separate species, instead.
@@stormtroop3016Aiat means "Everything will go as it must." It's like an assuring mantra.
Now I wanna see a leviathan flying through space so badly. Can't imagine how awesome an image that would be
Unfortunately Irish has about four or five "correct" pronunciations given accents and regional dialects, but I'd pronounce Síocháin along the lines of She-ock-awn. The í and á are longer vowel sounds than the regular vowel, and ch is the equivalent of a k as it's one of those letters we don't have in the Irish alphabet. Pretty good attempt though 👍
Scottish Gaelic is similar - it's fascinatingly frustrating how many variations there are with accents and dialects, and how many letters and syllables we're used to in English that simply don't exist, lol
"Is that a silent letter or a phlegmy sound?"
"What does that flick mean..?" lol
Oh well 🤷🏽♂️
Brits will always butcher our language like how the butchered our people
I’m sure that’s right, similar to An Garda Síochána. The Irish police force for the people that don’t know.
In the preamble to the Mayday mission this week, Sloane pronounces it close to “Sho-kan”
I love Byf’s tone when reading lore tabs. It’s an amazing way to keep someone interested, and there’s a clear sense of professionalism in how it’s narrated
Ahsa has given me weapon buffs and ammo multiple times.
Ahsa is my new favorite character.
Honestly, it seems like Ahsa has some connection to taken energy. She might even be the species who controlled said taken energy before the Witness found the energy to take to pass it to the Taken King. If Ahsa does use taken energy for her own purposes all be it good purposes, does that mean the ability to take is something that stems from the deep itself and these species are the origin of the taken energy. It seems to be heading in this direction I think. Just like Light and Darkness, Stasis, Strand so on they can all be used for good and bad. I think this is also true for the taken energy. I also think the source of the taken energy is something their species held and the "Calcified version" of this energy is impure taken energy that can bend people's will, hence the statues. It would make sense. I don't think Slone is inherently in danger of being taken. I think it's just a way to access the ascendant plane for para-causal beings. Ahsa might be para-causal herself. She may have knowledge of the universe.
Hell with this line of thinking it could now give more context to what actually happened to the exodus black. It makes no sense that that event was the witnesses doing. I ultimately think now after seeing this, it was Ahsa. That was the connection before the collapse she is talking about. The connection to queen mara sov before she became the awoken queen. This could make sense. Especially the connection to the ascendant plane that the awoken have.
Stay with me here, I think to pass through the gate, we will have to make use of the taken energy. Think about it. If what Ahsa uses is taken energy then it would make sense for the witness to use something similar. Maybe the Veil is the origin of all para-causal power in the universe. Whatever energy/power the Witness possesses is not what the taken energy is supposed to be. Maybe now that energy is so corrupted it bends the laws of time and space itself connecting past to future. It's the echos of the never where. The final shape.
This week I've noticed some spots on Ahsa that look like those small "puddles" of taken energy that don't damage you, the one's that look like shimmering pools of blackness and stars.
One up above her eye and another to the right and down a little. Also, she seems to have electricity or arc pulses across parts of her at times too.
She very much could be a being of Light and Dark, wielding both in some measure. Her Telepathic nature is very much darkness related after all, however being alive is enough to have some measure of Light within her as well. As she is so big, it's probable she has quite a sizable core of Light compared to other living organisms.
Her eye is very similar to the veil, both in size and it's iris design. The Disciple of Fear, Nezerac, very well could have been the one to take her left eye during the collapse.
This fight probably occurred near the Exodus ship Mara was on, Ahsa possibly was attempting to flee and reached out to Mara or her exodus ship for help.
The Traveller possibly intervened with it's "Life Beam" attack making an initial connection to Ahsa's left eye, Traveller to Veil rather than Veil to Traveller, which created the Awoken realm by accident in an attempt to save the ship.
The Traveller probably suffered damage from a resonance based feedback from Nezeracs ship through Ahsa's now dislodged left eye.
Shortly after this, Savathûn likely enacted her betrayal, hid his ship on Luna and pinned the blame on Nezerac to maintain her appearance of Loyalty to the Witness. Claiming Nezerac took Ahsa/the veil elsewhere to use it to cause more pain and fear to out grow the Witness's power.
She probably almost left the Witness no choice but to leave Savathûn, under the direct supervision of Rhulk, to keep watch over the Traveller and ensure it doesn't escape.
That and wait for Oryx to Arrive to finish off humanity, which resulted in his demise.
@@soulsurvivor8293 Exactly. I also believe this energy will be used to accidentally bring Cayde back when going through the portal using the taken energy. It makes a lot of sense.
This all makes perfect sense even the glow on travelers chosen matches what ahsa has and cayde in the trailer has I'm wondering if the power to take wasn't somehow perverted by the witness or the deep
From what I understand as a veteran player we were supposed to take the mantle of taken king after slaying oryx and we didn’t and hear me out real quick what if our next subclass is taken i dont think it’s impossible for us to take over and completely wrest control of the taken and all of its capabilities from the witness cuz with how strongly we are connected to the light And how strong willed an individual we are we could very well take his stuff from him cuz he’s just using the darkness like us whose to say the darkness hasn’t been trying to rebel against the witness the entire time and that’s why we’ve been advancing so rapidly with darkness powers because we are a contender to stop him permanently he is so focused on keeping us distant from him that appears to me hes actually worried about an encounter with us at the stage of development we’re at. This is just something I’ve been thinking about. Cuz I’m noticing little under tones and hints that indicate we are just rapidly gaining strength and yet the traveler is done how is it the witness has done what he did and yet our light seems to have gotten stronger not weaker and has continued to evolve more now than when it was alive. These little shifts in tone I can’t ignore I will say the AI tweak Bungie did is pretty welcome cuz now they feel a bit more lore accurate to how strong they are especially the hive.
Ahsa is to the worm gods, just as the krill are to the Hive. No wonder she looked so similar in her silhouette. She looks like a giant version of a larval worm
I think Asha, the Worm Gods and Ahamkara shared a common ancestor before evolving into what they are now.
Asha is a positive symbiotic relationship with the one she bonded with, in the case of Sloane.
The Worm Gods was parasitic in nature, demanding violence in exchange for immortality and power or be eaten from the inside.
Ahamkara in their relationships with [hosts] feed on desire wishes that they grant…but not without it possibly becoming a monkey’s paw in the process.
They all have in common is the need of another being as a host or partner in some way to sustain their lives. Anyone else have anything to add in speculative stuff?
Just want to say I love the extra little commentary throughout the readings. I often listen to these while doing other things and it’s easy to get lost in some of the lore excerpts. The little clarifications when things are being presented a bit indirectly are super helpful.
This guy is one of the few reasons I still play this game
On ishtar search up the name Reed-7 and look at the lore for season of the deep
Yep, apparently Reed was killed by the Witness during the short battle above Earth. Aisha seems to be taking it slowly, but Shayura is still coming to terms with it, and trying to make sense of the grey view Guardians have adopted in wielding Darkenss and Light in balance since Beyond Light. It seems like she’d been visited by a follower of Osiris’ cult in the Tower. Osiris may not care at all about his followers who twisted his words long ago. But, he could be the best person to teach Shayura that Darkness and Light are not necessarily defined as good or bad, but rather forces of nature and the immaterial.
Now this brings new meaning to the levithan giving Oryx and her sisters a warning meant.
He was what ever Ahsa is, and saw what the curse of the deep could do.
"Ahsa pursues the bond of family" Fast and Furious XI confirmed!
Well this is just some SPICY lore and I just cannot wait for more
I love the additional lore in item descriptions, but I always forget to read them. Your videos are phenomenal Byf!
If the Disciple of Fear (Nezarec, almost certainly) attacked Ahsa during the collapse, that means Eramis is the only (known) Disciple of the Witness to never have interacted with any sort of Leviathan.
Hey byf, what if the bond ahsa had before the collapse was with Sloane's past life? I know it's pretty up in the air, but this is destiny improbable is not impossible
I’ve always wondered why “Oh (noun) mine.” Came across as affectionate from such cruel creatures. Given Ahsa’s emphasis on love and family it was probably meant as a sort of bonding ritual.
4:34 the sass our Ghost would give us is almost worth the effort.
Tbh I think the Leviathan is what you get if you give a member of Ahsa's species the Light, just as Worm Gods are what happens if they embrace the Darkness. Ahsa in my opinion is a member of the base species that never received the blessings of either the Light or the Darkness.
BYF!! Bro, major congrats on a million, thx for always piecing the story's together for the community and delivering it in such a complete and captivating fashion.
That makes her millions of years old. I never thought that the Leviathan and Worms could even have been the same species which makes perfect sense now I think about it. Why would it be guarding the worms from discovery if it didn't have history with them? So many mysterious to be solved it's insane
Anyone else see the couple of taken looking specs on Ahsa this week? One was on their eyebrow area... did not notices it there last week but might have missed it.
They were there in the first week too
@@michaelthigpen4570 good to know! Was worried that Ahsa was getting corrupted by their weekly connections to Sloane
Sky: Leviathans
Neutral: Ahamkara
Deep: Worms
What if they’re all the same species but are changed based on their alignment? It would explain why the Vanguard purged the Ahamkara, as each is a potential enemy if claimed by the Deep and the Vanguard was probably unaware of Leviathans at the time.
The Great Hunt seems to have been Mara's idea- and likely aided by Riven. Mara had wished for a unique, one-sided source of power that would advantage her against future enemies, and Riven granted it by orchestrating the destruction of all other Ahamkara
@@archivesEris I gotta brush up on reading! I thought the hunt was executed by the Vanguard.
@@raynmoriit was a joint operation. Mara had her reasons, and the Vanguard was sick of Guardians making wishes that ended up getting turned around on them.
This latest set of lore from this expansion has been amazing
From what I can see, I think your pronunciation is spot on Byf.
Hey Byf
Call it a footnote of 14:06
In one of the seasonal armour lore tabs (for Warlock at least) there’s an entry where Sloane is having a vision of a golden age scientist. He is the one who formed that original bond with Ahsa. Siochain then confirms it’s not a vision but a temporal anomaly because the space at which she’s seeing this golden age ‘vision’ occur in has the same atmospheric conditions of golden age Titan.
Hey Byf love your content
síocháin - also the Irish word for peace
Pronunciation - She-ukh-awn
Keep up the amazing work.
Her being a proto-worm god is clear IMO, she is referred as "worm" in the story many times and she certainly can bestow gifts, as we see in the deep dive missions. Her kind also seemed to know the "magics" that were forbidden before being changed by The Witness
I think savathun was the one who hid the planets because each of the returning ones and the discovery of neo muna were all places where there was a potential ally or weapon against the witness. Savathun is not a friend by any definition but I think she really was trying to keep the traveler out of the hands of the witness so that whats happened with the veil may never have happened. In the same regard I think she hid ahsa who warned the krill against the deep in the first place.
I posted a similar comment on Mylens video, but just a random thought, isnt there a lore entry from Vow about Rhulk going down and meeting the OG worm gods. Where he beats up and steals a rib of the leviathan, and then ends up "stealing" the mother worm thats in the raid? I swear thats in an item entry or lore book somewhere, which also implied that the Witness did tell Rhulk to go down there and do stuff at one point. Whats now a bit confusing is if what I said is true (again someone fact check me) I'm not sure I get the timeline of Ahsa's species getting corrupted > turned into worm gods > "trapped" > and then Rhulk showing up, especially if the witness and one of its disciples knew they were there.
I also dont remember if they ever describe what the worms look like when Rhulk first finds them and enslaves/converts/corrupts them. The entry on the ghost about Ahsa's backstory could just be her perspective of this event. Rhulk doing whatever he did to the other worms her family, stealing the mother worm and Ahsa barely gets away. And whatever Rhulk ends up doing to them alters their appearance into what we know them to look like now
it's likely that during the fighting over sword logic, the worm gods lost a battle to the remaining proto worms and were imprisoned and rhulk later freed them
Nezarec also has some dialouge about Ahsa and her species in Root of Nightmares. Its not much but he clearly knows about her and the Worm God origins
Ballin, respectfully
Nice timing with the end of the encounter there
I really feel like a video like this needs to be longer, should’ve waited.
At the start of the season I had the theory, that maybe Ahsa, was the mysteriously unknown other disciple from the RON lorebooks. Where they were questioning the final shape, maybe that's why Ahsa left and it would explain why Ahsa knows so much about the witness. But I like this video.
I'm loving the lore this season I really hope that Ahsa's species is related to the leviathan perhaps the Leviathan was their mother or their Alpha of sorts this would be really interesting as a parellell the Leviathan fought till the very end meanwhile Xita was quick to become subservient to the witness
I’m surprised you didn’t speculate on the “bond” Ahsa made during the Collapse. My notion is that Ahsa and Savathun bonded…Savathun helped Ahsa escape Fundament via the Veil.
There's lore about how some golden age scientist bonded with her
Edit: it's on the armour pieces I think, Sloane sees it during Titans taking
@@aidenfanucci9523Is it the cold comfort rocket launcher you're talking about? It's about how some scientists try to escape the collapse in a submarine and Ahsa comes to them so they don't die alone.
@Cappy Cat There was another part where she bonded and hid others in a cove and kept them calm until they died.
So, multiple attempts from her.
Pretty funny to look back at all the videos Byf made about Titan's sea monster 5 years ago in hindsight.
The "disciple of fear" is likely in reference to Rhulk. As the first disciple of the Witness, he was there when the Witness came for Ahsa's race and Fundament. He also struck a leviathan in the deep, likely in reference to Ahsa herself, who was wounded by Rhulk and then fled.
the leviathan was later killed by the hive and fed to their worm gods, ahsa is a different worm, and the only disciple known for fear or nightmares is nezerac
ahsa was likely struck during the collapse as nezarec was present during it and led the attack
I always wondered why Saladin referred to Ahsa as an 'outcast worm' during Deep Dives. That kind of came out of nowhere, since it's not said or mentioned in any cutscene or line of dialogue previous to it, and I only got the Ghost shell recently.
In the new trial ship, you can see one of shayuras fireteam, reed-7, was one of the casualties in the one cutscene where the witness cuts all the ships into pieces
Thank you Byf,every season I look forward to the lore and theory that you bring.
Bungie gave us a a worm plush now give us an ahsa plush.
I was under the impression that Ahsa and the Leviathan were the same. That Rhulk is the disciple of fear and Nezarec of pain, and the rib bone in Rhulks ship was Ahsa's from perhaps around the time she fled Fundament.
idk what to discuss but all i know is that without the Byf there is no destiny story
he's literally just reading the story already available to you and then speculating, I love his work but lmao he didn't write it
Some serious "lemme give 'em the clamps, boss" energy coming from Siochain in this lore entry.
tbh, can't wait for Byf to dive in to the madhousery that is Marathon
I think Ahsa is a uncorrupted worm if I remember correctly in my first deep dive after doing the two pressure challenges I think Drifter or Zavala said something "Can you believe an outcast worm" I think she is one and I want to protect her even more after hearing her story now
All I'll say be sure to do those pressure challenges on deep dive I think there's so interesting dialogue in there that could lead to stuff
i would like to point out that at 10:45 the quote says "A solar opposite to that which Takes love." it could be a type, of course, but the fact that shes from fundament and refers to something as capital T take makes me think of oryx. could just be reference to him, but its gettin my gears spinning for sure
oryx at the time of the events of fundament was then known as Aurash and didn't have taken abilities yet, the witness seemed to have had taken abilities though
Disciple of fear, while it’s probably nezarec I would like mention an old call back to season of splicer, Skira. The evil that haunted the elksni before the traveler but was defeated when the elksni stopped being afraid because skira fed on fear.
it's likely skira and nezarec are one in the same based off similarities
A wyrm battle between Ahsa and one of the worm gods as a climax would be insane
I believe we hear Sloane pronounce her Ghosts name, "Show-Khan" in the recent story mission.
can we all take a moment to appreciate byf trying to voice act?
Sloan's looking for a new ghost shell " what's this movie phantasm about"
I think there's a reason Saladin mentioned the Ahamkara hunts to Sloane.
Idk what they might have to do with this but it's confirmed ahsa is a worm god race. You think the worm gods before they were turned were ahamkara?
@Girth Check I'm thinking Bungie is going to reveal that the Worm Gods and the Ahamkara evolved from whatever race Ahsa is. Over millions of years, they became distinct species. What Ahsa said about "Magics deemed too cruel" could be the possessive "O, (noun), mine" pact magic also used by Savathûn and the Worm Gods.
@mkultra2958 so ahsa is the base form and the worm gods are darkness evolved the ahamkara are the light evolved? She said she ran away and it seems like she's the only one who didn't go dark but I guess we don't know for sure
@Girth Check Oh, I like that angle more. I didn't consider whether wish magic was just an Ahamkara thing, or that it could be from the Light.
This subplot is becoming so incredibly interesting. The one thing that doesn’t add up for me is Ahsa describes she was struck by “the disciple of fear”, which to me also suggests Nezarec. But the Vow of Disciple lore tells us it was Rhulk who wounded the Leviathan (assumably Ahsa) in the depths of Fundament and displayed one of its ribs in his pyramid ship.
I suppose it could have been another leviathan, and not Ahsa, that Rhulk assailed. But if nothing more this passage suggests that both Nezarec and Rhulk visited Fundament and made contact with the Worm Gods and Leviathan, and this is absolutely tantalizing storytelling as you put it, Mr. Byf. I want MORE.
Ahsa is not the Leviathan, she may be one of Leviathan's species, but she's not it. The Leviathan was killed by hive on one of Fundament's moons, where it fled.
Being struck by the Disciple of Fear is mentioned AFTER she settled into Titan and the Collapse had begun.
Hey Byf! So real fast there's a giant sea monster in Ghost of the Deep dungeon. If you look in the distance in the drill shaft room you can see a massive creature.
I was really hoping after what they did in Light Fall that carrying The Whisper of the Worm sniper would have had us hearing Xol during some of the story, seeing as the gun has his soul. No dice though.
I'm really starting to feel like that Ahsa's race were once one. But because of the Witnesses and the war they evolved into different species. Ahsa is what the species once was. Some of them became worm gods bound to the Witness and the darkness and the rest became the Ahamkara cursed with the O mine paracausal trap. If Asha states that she is the last of her species she could be talking about the original species. There are still hive god worm left and the Ahamkara are now extinct with he death of Riven.
Honestly, i think the Leviathan species is what Ahsa is. It might have been that she was a young one and chose to flee instead of fighting family. Perhapse her dads friend was the one who survived and beat the Hive Worms of the Deep down and locked them away for their betrayal. If so, not only is she the most ancient being we know of in Sol but also the lone survivor of the Witness, the only being we have access to that might know the Witness' weakness or have the power to overcome the witness/what we need to traverse the triangle portal....
I belive it is one of the pieces of seasonal armour reveals ahsa's first bond, it's with a marine biologist. During the golden age, she tried to warn him and others about the witness.
Also btw the understanding the Veil quest is on neomuna in the bttm left hand corner.
I’ve been saying for years that all these paracausal worms and dragons and such are the same thing but morphed by the surrounding energies. Glad we’re finally getting around to that.
Nezarec striking Ahsa seems very familiar to Rhulk attacking the Leviathan
Just in time for me to listen in and cook.
I reckon if Ahsa is a proto worm god, she may be the one to give us our 3rd darkness subclass.
And that might be a pre witness version of hive magic.
I can see something happening with our skills and abilities in that subclass getting stronger in different ways for killing enemies in certain ways for a set period of time (emulating the sword logic).
For instance: if you kill 3 or more enemies with a single ability, you gain one temporary charge for that ability. Once the extra charge is used, it goes away, and this skill is put on a short cooldown.
Could be a very fun idea to play with.
The witness came from an ancient tribe of desert nomads who originally found the traveler. They got mad it didn't give them "purpose" so they found the veil and tried to stick it in the traveler. Traveler said pce out and left. All the desert nomads got angry and combined themselves to make the witness and proceeded to go on a "if I can't have it, no one can" tantrum. Cursing and culling every species that comes into contact with big white ball.
This season is what Destiny is really all about, mystery for the community to think and converse about the story as it goes forward...I'm hoping Ahsa knows something about the Va~ joking but maybe she may know something. It would be cool if Bungie gives us more story to compliment the events in Lightfall and justify what we think were shortcomings, hopefully it makes us appreciate the campaign later.
We know that Traveller was in fact near Fundament, and was in contact with Hive(at least Savathun), maybe he was in contact with Ahsa's species aswell and maybe Leviathan is what came of it. Traveller gave him power to contain Worm Gods and well, guard them. So even without the ghost Leviathan probably was akin to Guardians, transformed by light and guarding what remained of their species. Maybe he hoped Traveller can reverse what has been done to them, but for the moment being he was jsut guarding them. They obviously could not overpower him(not without help they got from Hive later), so he could kill them if he really wanted, but he refrained from it. The main reason for this might be hope that they can be cured, drive to save his species. So he stayed to guard them, Ahsa fled to ascendant plane, but other defectors? Maybe they left with traveler, followed him around, and eventually transformed into Ahamkara. Bonds and pacts are very tied to this species nature, and even Ahsa who is not transformed talks about bond as something of utter importance to her.
P.S. Words about "garden" "nomads" "travelers" "planting seeds of hope". Can we entertain a thought that Traveller might be not one of his kind? My head canon for a long time is that in fact Traveller is not uniqe, but he might be the last. Even wilder thought: Pyramid ships are Travellers that were hunted down by Witness and transformed by his will, can be something tied to Taking.
I wonder if Ahsa could potentially give new powers to those eho bond with her like the worm gods gave to the osmium sisters..
Because that in conjunction with having Savathun's body at hand could lead to interesting situations..
We have both Oryx'x and Savathun's body at the moment. IF we also kill Xivu Arath and get her body, what are we going to do with all that unoccupied power? Maybe take their power for ourselves or maybe Ahsa can do something with worm infected species?
something I’ve noticed but haven’t heard discussed, is how ahsas’ eye shimmers and contracts/expands when she’s speaking through the deputy commander, it even mentions this happening a few other times(i think) in lore from this season talking about how ahsa helped her survive all this time. Isn’t this yet another similarity between the worm gods, or *proto-worm gods, and the ahamkara? ahamkaras’ shimmering eye is what would betray their wish magic when it was in play, if I remember correctly. damn forsaken was a long time ago lol. anyways, is this making sense to anyone?
Oh this saddening to imagine
The worm species who forms seem to change by environmental factors or powers.
There are so few of those gods left
The odds that the witness has no access to Sloanes memory or consciousness are zero.
I wonder if the Leviathan may have also been of the original Worm God species, but couldn't bring itself to kill the Worm Gods (maybe they were family?) and so it contained them in the depths of Fundament instead.
Could the Leviathan have been the mother/father of the proto worms? They rejected the witness but couldnt fight their sons and daughters when the conflict broke out. When the worms that won turned into the worm gods that we know, they vowed to contain them on fundament. The worm gods had to then, essentially create the hive to leave and continue the witness' design?
imagine if bringing whisper or parasite into the ahsa airlock place triggered some unique/cool voicelines
This entire lore card needs to be a cutscene
When I heard Ahsa name for a brief moment I thought about the end of the Insight Terminus Strike where ghost says who is Ahsa? I went a replayed the strike and the spelling is Oxa so I guess no relation, but still one of Destiny's mysteries they have never explained, or I've missed it. Great content as always Byf!!
OXA was explained, its a machine made by the psion Otzat also mentioned in the same strike, the machines purpose is to see into the future
that is INSANE - because that means the Leviathan likely couldn't speak or communicate long enough with the Krill Siblnings because their whole race likely has a more limited ability to communicate in ways that most other ones understand it? so you have reasoning for why the Leviathan was on Fundament (it's the Proto-Worms planet), why he was guarding the Worm Gods (to keep the Sword Logic from spreading but also out of love, a desire not to kill the last of his kind and hope they could change), and why he couldn't simply tell the siblings why and what was going on.
Still curious about what Aiat means... But man... Poor Ahsa... The loving worm and possibly the last of her kind...
Yeah, poor Ahsa...
hey byf, have you ever considered uploading your lore videos as podcasts? i love to listen to them in the background and spotify or other platforms would be a great way to do that.
And we where able to see her YEARS ago as a small secret traversing Titan. Not knowing anything more than "big seamonster" and speculations. If this really whas bungies plan all along, man, thats cool.. Im looking forward to whats ahead!
Has it been retconned or is there still a sandworm on the Cabal Homeworld called the Leviathan that Calus’ ship is based off of? Also, love how Sloan’s Ghost is ready to cut-a-bitch 🤣
They are referred to as land whales in Lightfall Collectors' edition lore
Siocháin is that ride or die friend every Guardian should have.
Reckon it's not just worm gods that came from her species. I bet the wish dragon are also a off shot as well, they chased the traveller instead. Asha is the original and neutral in a sense.
With Siochain, I'm pretty sure that Sloan does say the Ghost's name in game. I think Destiny Lore Vault has the clip but I'm not 100% sure. All I am sure on is that the name has been said in game.
Now I'm wondering why Rhulk would have had to fight the Leviathan, and remove one of its ribs, in order to reach and conscript the Worm Gods if they were proto-Worms that had already been corrupted by the Witness in the first place.
Could be like mass effect where the reapers indoctrinated the Protheons and they fought each other which resulted in the collapse of the species? The darkness indoctrinated the proto-worms and caused a faction split?