Gordon at the mine doesn't cause too much of an issue if you consider that the danger sign probably indicates that it is well known WHERE the subsidence can be. Mines aren't usually random sprawls but carefully planned out, and as long as the mine isn't abandoned the documents likely helped the railway plan the limits for where engines can go. Gordon, by not going past the sign, was therefore likely in a safe zone, and his size, weight, and tractive effort would make it easier to prevent Thomas from being buried.
For sure I feel like the only real danger Gordon could’ve been in would be if he went further into the mine or if Thomas caused any damage in HIS escapade. I’d just admittedly be nervous if I was Topham and that was my only way of remedying the issue myself 😅
As for the crane situation, during the time setting, the only cranes seen on sodor were the cowan/sheldon 30 ton ones, which wouldnt have had the rating to lift thomas, and the added risks of: A. having to rotate 180' in order to get the jib clear of its dolly wagon to be in lift position anyway, (which would have sunk the supports into the ground either side) B.even if it were able to do that, it still risks tipping end onwards, which WOULD bury thomas and the crane would either be damaged significantly or derailed in between Even if rocky had been on the island at this point, him being twice as long and 65 ton, whilst he could lift thomas out, he still faces the same issues as the cowan crane
In Topham‘s defense, I think the mineshaft thing does make some sense. Thomas passed over that entire area Gordon had to traverse without collapsing the mine. Considering anything more than a few trucks would collapse the mine it stands to reason that the area Thomas crossed over was probably safe. And also just to be certain they had Gordon roll over very slowly so that he wouldn’t stabilize the mines any further.
moreover, Gordon's greater wheelbase and number of axles serves to spread out the greater weight over a greater area, limiting the additional stress on the ground and on the track.
There is also the episode, Wrong Road where Gordon went onto Edward's branch line due to his driver mistaking a lady's green floppy hat for the guard's green flag, and when Gordon was stopped and brought back, Edward was already late with his train and he set off first. The signalman wasn't told about this change and sent Edward along the mainline and Gordon along the branch. Gordon doesn't derail on the branch line, but I figured that was another point to make. Since the narrator said at the beginning that the tracks on the branch line are not as strong as those on the mainline and Sir Topham Hatt doesn't allow the heavier mainline engines like Gordon to run on them, I was confused that Gordon went along the branch line and had no problems, although I suppose some would say that Gordon was just lucky.
In Heroes, Gordon’s at Brendam just fine. And the multitude of times he’s seen at Brendam in the CGI series. I think it’s more or less because Henry’s supposed to be there a lot, and just made it able to fit Gordon. I mean, hey, if it can fit Murdoch, it can fit Gordon.
I think the reason gordon never had a accident on edwards branch it was because the branch was designed for tender engines allowing gordon to be able to traverse
It's likely that the branches CAN, it's just that as a matter of policy the Northwestern doesn't, for safety and continued condition of the lines. The exception being in the event of emergencies or scheduling conflicts. Also, the NWR was consolidated either during or after WWI, so they may have spec'd the branch lines to be able to handle even the big engines over MOST of the lines in the event of a national need. Which I suspect came in VERY handy indeed come WWII.
I think the reason why Gordon can get to the mine is because it's not on Thomas' branch, but instead it's own line, which is probably a bit stronger. I believe that line is on David Mitton's official map.
I think generally, there are safety concerns as to why the big engines don't go on branchlines. However, exceptions can be made in certain situations, BUT, caution must still be taken. It happens in real life too, like Class 66s going on lines meant for Class 37s, but they go slower and the crew must take caution the entire time.
Another fact in which that I’m surprised you didn’t mention about was the wheel configurations. Off course there are tons of sidings and junctions across thomas’ branch line. If Gordon would run through them, inevitably he would just derail himself if he even dared tried to go down there, but he did anyway and survived, LOL. But really it was the Fat Controller’s fault for that idea from down the mine as you mentioned… Points are smaller and designed for tank/switcher locomotives therefore Gordon’s wheel lengths would not fit those tiny bends, so yeah that’s how he would just come off the rails.
Yeah there was, in 1988 the bridge that spanned over the Els River needed renovations and Thus there was a weight limit placed on it for the meantime, which Thomas exceeded. Thomas was sent to Edward's branch line for the meantime, where he would meet the clay twins for the first time. Thomas returned to the Ffarquhar branch in 1989 after the renovations on the bridge was finished.
What i would like to know is if they could swap jobs successfully Thomas takes the express to Gordon's standards And Gordon shunts trucks to Thomas' standards
I have another question TrainBoy might ask which is how would Henry, Murdoch, Hank, a American engine, Rebecca, Belle, Flynn, The Polar Express, and finally the Hogwarts Express be on Farquhar?
I think that Gordon running on a branchline has already been proven in "Gordon Takes a Tumble". But the branchline wasn't Thomas'. Gordon has not only went on Thomas' branchline, but also Edward's many times and it all didn't start until Wrong Road.
@hitmeuponnicegramTrainBoy01 I think During S8 to 18 the people who were making the sets with the models and CGI didn't know about bigger tender engines like Henry, Emily, Spencer, Hiro, etc can't run on Thomas' branchline, but they probably thought that their audience wouldn't know the physics between bigger engines and smaller branchlines. But guess Edward's Branchline fits for all engines' sizes. :/
My idea maybe maybe the branch I was strengthened to allow tender engines like Gordon to travel on it I mean they did the same with Edward's Branch line and look at Edwards Branch line now Gordon has been down that Branch like often including Henry to go click the flying kipper if you count in the CGI seasons
Personaly it would be the lenght to the cab that would maybe let the steam go down enough to go in :| But Elsebridge viaduct for sure can take that tho
the danger sign indicates where mines start so gordon doesn't have a problem there but what about SHARP BENDS? gordon is long so he'd have a problem turning he'd get easily damaged or derailed no matter the speed he goes at also the faster an engine goes the more pressure it puts onto rails so if gordon is faster and heavier, he'd be more damaging to rails anyway
I don’t think it would be smart enough for any controller to let an A1 steam engine to travel on a rail line meant for smaller steam engines unless you’re willing to pay the consequences if God forbid the A1 tips over while going at high speeds on a branch line
Let me know if you all ever want a part 2 since there’s not only a little more we can talk about with this subject (like radius, track classification, etc.) but PLENTY of characters too! Enjoy guys :)
@Sud I don’t even think he would make the switch on to Ffarquhar unless he was going under 10mph the ENTIRE time 😅 Even then I bet his rods wouldn’t feel the best
To be fair, the branch line to the lead mines isn’t Ffarquhar. In the episode, Thomas gets there by going behind Knapford. And on David Mitton’s map, it’s in the same location. Even with this information though, all of your points are sound and it was a fun watch
You forgot to mention an engines rigid wheelbase. The E2's had a wheelbase of 16 feet. But the A1's had a much larger wheelbase (from the front driving axle to the cab support axle) of 24 feet. So if the branchline were to have any tight turns, Gordon would more than likely damage his wheel flanges and ruin the track
I hope to touch on that in the second part! :) Honestly I feel Gordon may not be the best comparison since the E2 has such a MASSIVE wheelbase itself when compared to the other, do you maybe recommend another engine to bring into the discussion for such?
Important to note: In Wrong Road, Awdry's reason for Gordon not going on branchlines is because he's too heavy for the track and bridges. Thing is, later that same episode, Gordon is sent down Edward's branch and makes it all the way to Brendam. It's also implied that Gordon took the entire express down the branch as well, since the signalman meant to send Edward and his train that way. So considering this, if Edward's line was strong enough for Gordon to literally take the express down it, then Thomas' branch could likely do the same thing probably up until the quarry tramway, though we don't know if the rails would survive his return journy.
Being too heavy doesn't mean that the line will immediately break when he goes on it, it just means the lines rated weight capacity is below his weight and that they're effectively sailing in uncharted waters. (ie. The line is being exposed to conditions beyond what it is rated to handle, it may hold up and just degrade faster than it otherwise would or it may just break in a particularly weak section, even if that section is still up to the standard on the branch line) This happened in real life too, by the way. An old branch-line near where I live was built for small 1880s steam engines and never upgraded because almost everything it carried was hauled by a small shunter. With one exception: The handful of times there wasn't a Y or W class shunter to haul a freight pilot, they'd sometimes use a B class which is Australia's F-Unit despite the rails not being rated for anything close to it.
There's also the tightness of curve tracks to consider, too small a radius for Gordon's coupled wheel length and he'd derail. The E2's curve clearness was an issue when they worked at Southampton Docks, which led to the USA Tanks taking over.
That a good point and ties into another I’d like to hit in the second installment (if there is one) since Thomas’s long wheelbase would have to be accommodated pretty much the whole way through? Ofc this entire argument also banks on the real life basis too, if we use the actual “modified E2” basis that Thomas really is this all goes right out the window 🤣
Don't forget turntables. According to the wiki, Knapford sheds is the only place on Thomas' branch line that has one and, if I recall, it's considered dangerous for large tender engines to travel backwards.
@@spearmintpony7105 Not dangerous so much as not ideal to a degree where you'll want to try and turn around. Main restriction is a much lower speed limit, which Gordon would have to follow on a lightly laid branchline regardless of which direction he was facing.
While Thomas can clear tunnels (specifically Hackenbeck Tunnel), 5 inches can be the difference between an engine clearing a bridge or tunnel, or scraping the tunnel ceiling. I feel Gordon can go up Thomas’ branch just fine, but he can only travel the line south of Hackenbeck.
Hope this doesn't get too wordy, but this is a subject I've given some thought to in the past :) It's not so much a locomotive's weight as how that weight is distributed - the axle-load. We don't have a loading diagram for Thomas but at fifty two tons he likely has an axle-load of about 17.3 tons. So that's 17.3 tons exerted at each pair of wheels. By comparison, Murdoch the 9F, although heavier than Thomas (86 tons without tender) spreads that weight over more axles, giving him a considerably axle-loading lower than Thomas: 15.5 tons! Gordon, as an A1, has a known axle loading of 20 long tons. Those three-or-so tons difference between him and Thomas might make all the difference since every structure on the Ffarquhar branch would be rated for a specific maximum load, with ultimate authority for this decision lying with the railway's Civil Engineer (who is responsible for all track and infrastructure - bridges, tunnels, etc). We have historical examples of a railway's Civil Engineer barring certain locomotives from operating over certain lines - for example, one reason the Great Eastern 'Decapod' locomotive never took off was because of the GER's Civil Engineer expressing concerns over such a large and weighty machine operating over the many viaducts on the commuter lines into their London terminus at Liverpool Street. Likewise, the GWR were not able to build their 'King' class locos until after a number of bridges had been strengthened and the Civil Engineer agreed to allow for an increased axle-load over the relevant lines. Now, as far as we know there are no major structures below Toryreck, the furthest up the branch that Gordon canonically went in the RWS. Above Toryreck however, we have the bridges over the Els and the Hackenbeck. The Hackenbeck bridge is a timber structure, and so probably has a fairly low axle-loading, and during the events of 'Thomas and the Twins', the Els bridge needed work done, and Thomas was temporarily deemed too heavy to use it. This suggests that the axle-loading of the Ffarquhar Branch, at least above Elsbridge, is enough to take Thomas with a decent margin of error. Gordon however is probably pushing that envelope. As for fitting through bridges and tunnels, that's all based on the loading-gauge, which establishes structural clearances. Since the NWR was built comparatively late and during wartime, I suspect a very large loading-gauge was used to maximise loads that could be carried, and we know that Gordon could fit through all main-line tunnels easily. This same large loading-gauge then probably set the standard for future extensions of the NWR, including the extension to Ffarquhar. The other factor defining an engine's suitability for specific lines is the characteristics of the engine itself, and the work it is optimised for. Gordon, with his big driving wheels and large boiler, is suited for endurance work at high speeds, like on the Main Line. Thomas meanwhile, with smaller driving wheels, is better suited for snappy acceleration and quick point-to-point operations, as you would expect on the Ffaquhar Branch. Stick Gordon on the branch and you're not only wasting his strength, but you're also wasting money - he would be far more costly to operate under such conditions than a smaller, more optimised branch engine like Thomas or Percy.
I personally wouldn’t count it too much JUST because we see Boco, Donald, and Douglas work those rails so the weight/ radius accommodations are PROBABLY there? Or at least similar to Ffarquhar which has an E2 on it so it still works in my mind 🤣
The main thing I’d be worried about is weight restrictions on the bridges. As you said, Thomas is pretty big for a tank engine. Plus the Knapford to Elsbridge stretch was made for Coffee Pots. We also know Toby and Percy are smaller than Thomas. It’s very possible that Thomas maxes out the branches restrictions already. Gordon going to the mines worked, because the old route didn’t have any bridges until Elsbridge, but he probably couldn’t go much further.
One thing that needs to be talked about is axle load. Gordon, being a Pacific, has 8 axles plus however many tender axles to spread his 90 tons on. Meanwhile, Thomas is just an 0-6-0 who has only 3 axles to spread his 56 tons. Doing some quick math with giving Gordon a 6-wheel tender (meaning 11 axles total), Gordon bears down on the rails at 8 tons per axle. Thomas, meanwhile, has a whopping 18 tons per axle. So, weight limitations in mind, Gordon would be less damaging to the rails in that regard than Thomas would be. Thomas my man, you be fat.
“Thomas, dude, lay off the coal man it’s really not helping the curves..” - Percy 🤣 And my dude that is a HUGE and awesome point, I was waiting to see if people liked this installment and then follow up with radius restrictions and axle loads and you’ve blown my mind already. I wouldn’t have imagined it to come out in that way but now, I’m even more excited to look into it 😅
That and you have to remember that technically Gordon is an A1/1 due to modifications or upgrades he receved during a rebuild in.. 1939 i think? So hes probably a slight bit heavier than the standard Gresley A1/A3s. Probably.
Gordon is actually just less than 5 tons lighter than Thomas once you factor in that coal tender, spreading around 150 tons across 11 Axels would be a little over 13 tons per Axel
The big thing to remember about weight and speed restrictions on things like branch lines: They're not made to prevent "if this happens once, it will happen once" type accidents, they're made to prevent "if we make a habit of this, it will happen too regularly to be acceptable" accidents. This is especially true for things like bridges. Even with modern roadway bridges, we're running into problems where old construction isn't built to handle regular use by hundreds of heavier vehicles carrying heavier loads. Transportation like rails, bridges, and infrastructure needs to be built with long-term safety in mind as well as short-term. An emergency situation like Down the Mine, especially early enough in the NWR's history for Gordon to be the biggest and most effective engine for the job of hauling an E2 out of a hole, would waive those restrictions temporarily, but that's an extreme case. I always remember what my grandfather told me: "If it's stupid and it works, it's still stupid, and you're lucky."
Keep in mind that it's not so much about the weight of an engine. But more of an axle load. Gordon may be much larger but his weight is spread across more axles and therfore would proberbly cause no more damage to the rails than Thomas would.
To figure out if the Ffarquhar branch could handle Gordon or not, we'd need to know the max axle loading of the line and it's tightest curve (essentially the most important factors). Height clearances wouldn't be too bad a problem as we Daisy standing at 3.72 meters can easily clear the tunnel, so I assume 3.99 meters max would at worst be rather close.
Other issues may include: Trees, minimum curves, weight of the tender, turntable/loop sizes, passing loops, yard-limits, signals, sheds, ashpits, water-towers, Coaling Stages, Platforms (why the LMS's Hughes Crabs were built with inclined cylinders in the 20's) ground-pressure (distinct from axle-load) exhaust effects, Compulsory Cowcatchers in/near the quarry ect.
@It'sTrainBoy I've got a topic for you. In the All Engines Go episode Overnight Stop, Thomas Percy and Nia are assigned to take tankers to Wayland Station. Wayland is an area in Norfolk, England. Norfolk is a county in East Anglia, which is the location of the Wisbech and Upwell Tramway, where Toby used to work. Could this mean that Thomas, Percy and Nia went all the way across the mainland to Toby's old line?
That does brings an interesting thought. Though in Wrong Road, the reasoning why Gordon isn't allowed to run on branch lines was because the tracks and bridges aren't strong enough as the main line. In my headcanon though, after the events of Wrong Road some years later in 1970 when the NWR was undergoing reconstruction and repairs (reference to MRR being my favorite movie even though it's a not officially canon into the actual universe), it was decided that Edward's Branch Line should undergo rebuilding the tracks and bridges so that the bigger engines can travel to Brendam Docks. Might not sound right, but it could be interesting. And also, I think there would've been a speed limit on Thomas' line so Gordon would've been able to get there and back safely. As for the discussion, this sorta reminded me of two original stories called 'Green Grass for Gordon' (SidekickJason) and 'Gordon Takes the Branch Line' (cactus190706) where Gordon once traveled on Thomas' Branch Line. But in all honesty, if Thomas' Branch Line were to be rebuilt to accommodate bigger engines too like Edward's Branch, the Peel Godred Branch and Kirk Ronan Line, I think it would've made things a bit easier for Gordon as well (but with still a speed limit just in case).
I feel like a point worth mentioning here is weight distribution. While gordon is heavier than thomas when put to a scale, his weight is also spread out over his many sets of wheels, including the tender. Granted, this is going into potentially very mathy business that I don't have the patience to do myself, but perhaps if a part two does happen you could look into Gordon's weight distribution (axle load is the term I think) and speak on that.
I suppose too Gordon's weight is spread out over a larger area. Using the figures you've quoted, Thomas' weight relative to his length comes out at 1.6 tons per foot in length, while Gordon is 1.3 tons per foot in length. Plus Gordon has 18 wheels (including his tender) while Thomas only has 6, so that's 5 tons per wheel and 8.7 tons per wheel respectively.
flying Scotsman goes down minor lines pretty often so in theory Gordon should be able to go down the Ffarquhar branch also the fat controller probably wanted the strongest engine to help Thomas
Industrial welder/fabricator here. It would be smart to factor in weight distribution. Gordon is heavier but he has more wheels to distribute the weight, like snowshoes. The formula for weight distribution is weight divided by the points of contact (wheels).
Gordon has 9 axles (including tender) so an average weight per axle of 10 tons, Thomas has three axles, so an average weight per axle of just under 17 tons. So in terms of axle weight, Gordon would do less damage than Thomas! Remember too that his tender can swing from side to side, as can his front bogie, so his rigid length is somewhat less than 70'. However Awdry does mention that Gordon is not allowed on Thomas's and Edward's branch lines owing to being too big and heavy (although Gordon did wind up at Edward's terminus where Bill and Ben debated whether he should be scrapped or dumped in the harbour!) With regards to "Down the Mine", the illustrations in the book have Gordon the "safe" side of the "Engines must not pass this point" notice, attached to Thomas by a much longer cable than that seen on TV.
I mean the hardest part would be just before the tunnel, as now you have a very tight curve leading into a tunnel with no straight to deal with overhang. I think he would get stuck there with his buffer beam smashed into the side of the tunnel.
I remember something being said that bigger engines, such as Gordon, weren’t allowed on branch lines due to reasons such as the ground those types of lines were built on being less stable than the ground main lines were on. That or the tracks weren’t able to take the weight of such large engines all that well…
In this installment sadly and thank you for pointing that out, if people are interested I want to make a second installment hitting that and radius restrictions that would come with an E2!! (and what else would be able to run that line by effect if that makes sense)
Loved this video! I say you do a video, discussing if Gordon could have handled Edwards branch-line, the Brendam branch, as we do see Gordon at the docks in some episodes.
If Gordon did take over the Farquhar branch line, that means Thomas would still be a station pilot. And the events of Trouble In the Shed wouldn’t happen, because the reason why Gordon, Henry, and James went on strike in the first place is because they didn’t want to fetch their own coaches while Thomas was on his branch line. If Gordon is taking over the branch line, the big engines wouldn’t have a reason to go on strike because Thomas would still be the station pilot.
Gordon’s route availability would affect his ability to “normally” operate over the branch line. By that, I’m suggesting that he would struggle to stick to timetable. Due to his relative heavy axle loading, he would be limited in running speed over specific structures, that’s just how it works in the UK. The likelihood of Gordon not fitting the loading gauge over the branch is actually slim, it’s not often that the British railway builders stray from the standard loading gauge. The weight of Gordon is the issue more than anything else, but it’d just mean reduced running speeds over specific structures, as per a RT 3185 form in the modern era.
Gordon could run on the vast majority of Thomas' branch line, if not all of it albeit at vastly reduced speeds and probably with a lot of extra track maintenance. It wouldn't be something I'd be doing on the regular, but if we're talking about something akin to Thomas derailing and Gordon being the only engine available to pull the breakdown train over to him, it's 100% doable. For reference, I'm basing this off of non-fiction stories I've heard about an old former branch-line ending in two sidings near where I live that was built relatively cheaply in the 1880s and never got upgraded for heavier trains (Literally used the quartz which is abundant in the area and old steam train ash for ballast) because all that ever went down it was small freight pilots (ie. 1-10 freight cars hauled by a small shunting loco for local freight movements) along with a rail tractor on the actual sidings for the shunting itself but at the same time, I've heard a story from a former driver for both VR and V/Line that they did once send a B Class diesel (Australia's version of the F-Unit) down there a few times when there wasn't any working shunting locos to haul the pilots, albeit at like 10-15km/h for safety.
In the RWS, the lead mine is on the first part of the branch before Elsbridge, which isn't really far from Knapford, in the TVS however, the lead mine is just west of Knapford as its own little line, which is why it passes the ocean in the episode
Down The Mine was a WV Awdry story. We know how much he researched things. The weight you give for Gordon is just for the A1 locomotive. The tender takes the total weight up to 150t
The thing is though: who operated his branch line prior? Seems like there weren’t prior tank engines, so the line may have been helped by the bigger engines. Hence why Gordon was upset when he had to run back to front the one time, he may have had to do it previously.
"Coffee Pot" engines, from the early 1900's used to run the branch line, back when the line only went as far as Elsbridge. In 1925, the line was extended to Ffarquhar and the coffee pots couldn't do the work alone so Thomas arrived to take over and it is believed that the coffee pots went to the quarry to work and after Toby arrived, they were most likely scraped. Side Note: The coffee pots were much smaller than even Percy and they were nicknamed "Coffee Pots" as their boilers we're placed vertically, making them look like coffee pots.
One thing always bugged me was that the "big" engines' bumpers were always shown as being well above those of the small engines...but of course they must all be at a standard height? Thomas shunts Gordon's cars and the engines often trade off their cars with each other. I'm assuming this is just an illustrator's trick to make the engines seem so unequal, for story purposes.
actually, gordon isnt the biggest engine on sodor, its henry, because if you compare them both henry's tender is just slightly bigger which makes him the biggest engine and also known as the strongest engine for taking the kipper as it is very long and heavy, unless the idea of him being the strongest in CGI isnt cannon.
Oh they can go in branch lines mainkine locomotives have been in branchlines for years but only for a good reason. They can in it more than once as it ps not durable with the tighter turns but they can go in the branch lines as Gordon did in down the mine.
i believe in down the mine the track gordon travels on is completely fine for him, we dont see him cross small bridges like on the ffarquhar branch for example and those set heavy weight restrictions on engines, usually being the main limiter and not the track itself, and he doesnt move past any unreasonably tight turns for how long he is compared to a tank engine like thomas
Gordon at the mine doesn't cause too much of an issue if you consider that the danger sign probably indicates that it is well known WHERE the subsidence can be. Mines aren't usually random sprawls but carefully planned out, and as long as the mine isn't abandoned the documents likely helped the railway plan the limits for where engines can go. Gordon, by not going past the sign, was therefore likely in a safe zone, and his size, weight, and tractive effort would make it easier to prevent Thomas from being buried.
For sure I feel like the only real danger Gordon could’ve been in would be if he went further into the mine or if Thomas caused any damage in HIS escapade. I’d just admittedly be nervous if I was Topham and that was my only way of remedying the issue myself 😅
As for the crane situation, during the time setting, the only cranes seen on sodor were the cowan/sheldon 30 ton ones, which wouldnt have had the rating to lift thomas, and the added risks of:
A. having to rotate 180' in order to get the jib clear of its dolly wagon to be in lift position anyway, (which would have sunk the supports into the ground either side)
B.even if it were able to do that, it still risks tipping end onwards, which WOULD bury thomas and the crane would either be damaged significantly or derailed in between
Even if rocky had been on the island at this point, him being twice as long and 65 ton, whilst he could lift thomas out, he still faces the same issues as the cowan crane
In Topham‘s defense, I think the mineshaft thing does make some sense. Thomas passed over that entire area Gordon had to traverse without collapsing the mine. Considering anything more than a few trucks would collapse the mine it stands to reason that the area Thomas crossed over was probably safe. And also just to be certain they had Gordon roll over very slowly so that he wouldn’t stabilize the mines any further.
moreover, Gordon's greater wheelbase and number of axles serves to spread out the greater weight over a greater area, limiting the additional stress on the ground and on the track.
There is also the episode, Wrong Road where Gordon went onto Edward's branch line due to his driver mistaking a lady's green floppy hat for the guard's green flag, and when Gordon was stopped and brought back, Edward was already late with his train and he set off first. The signalman wasn't told about this change and sent Edward along the mainline and Gordon along the branch. Gordon doesn't derail on the branch line, but I figured that was another point to make. Since the narrator said at the beginning that the tracks on the branch line are not as strong as those on the mainline and Sir Topham Hatt doesn't allow the heavier mainline engines like Gordon to run on them, I was confused that Gordon went along the branch line and had no problems, although I suppose some would say that Gordon was just lucky.
In Heroes, Gordon’s at Brendam just fine.
And the multitude of times he’s seen at Brendam in the CGI series.
I think it’s more or less because Henry’s supposed to be there a lot, and just made it able to fit Gordon. I mean, hey, if it can fit Murdoch, it can fit Gordon.
I think the reason gordon never had a accident on edwards branch it was because the branch was designed for tender engines allowing gordon to be able to traverse
Or maybe there’s a unseen loop line for big engines to travel to Brendum
It's likely that the branches CAN, it's just that as a matter of policy the Northwestern doesn't, for safety and continued condition of the lines. The exception being in the event of emergencies or scheduling conflicts. Also, the NWR was consolidated either during or after WWI, so they may have spec'd the branch lines to be able to handle even the big engines over MOST of the lines in the event of a national need.
Which I suspect came in VERY handy indeed come WWII.
I think the reason why Gordon can get to the mine is because it's not on Thomas' branch, but instead it's own line, which is probably a bit stronger. I believe that line is on David Mitton's official map.
I think generally, there are safety concerns as to why the big engines don't go on branchlines. However, exceptions can be made in certain situations, BUT, caution must still be taken. It happens in real life too, like Class 66s going on lines meant for Class 37s, but they go slower and the crew must take caution the entire time.
In one of the Railway stories, I think 'Thomas vs Bertie'.
James is mentioned being on the Branchline.
Let’s not forget that Gordon was once switched onto Edward’s branch by mistake, and he seemed to make it to Brendam Docks with absolutely no issue(s).
Another fact in which that I’m surprised you didn’t mention about was the wheel configurations.
Off course there are tons of sidings and junctions across thomas’ branch line. If Gordon would run through them, inevitably he would just derail himself if he even dared tried to go down there, but he did anyway and survived, LOL. But really it was the Fat Controller’s fault for that idea from down the mine as you mentioned…
Points are smaller and designed for tank/switcher locomotives therefore Gordon’s wheel lengths would not fit those tiny bends, so yeah that’s how he would just come off the rails.
Wasn't there a story written by Christopher about Thomas being kicked from his branchline for being too heavy for a bridge?
Yeah there was, in 1988 the bridge that spanned over the Els River needed renovations and Thus there was a weight limit placed on it for the meantime, which Thomas exceeded. Thomas was sent to Edward's branch line for the meantime, where he would meet the clay twins for the first time. Thomas returned to the Ffarquhar branch in 1989 after the renovations on the bridge was finished.
That. .......I love I absolutely love
Honestly, I don't think the Ffarquhar line have sharp corners except for the shunting yards, sheds, and the quarries
What i would like to know is if they could swap jobs successfully
Thomas takes the express to Gordon's standards
And
Gordon shunts trucks to Thomas' standards
I have another question TrainBoy might ask which is how would Henry, Murdoch, Hank, a American engine, Rebecca, Belle, Flynn, The Polar Express, and finally the Hogwarts Express be on Farquhar?
turns out the Lead Mines were actually outside of Knapford and not actually on the branchline.
I think that Gordon running on a branchline has already been proven in "Gordon Takes a Tumble".
But the branchline wasn't Thomas'.
Gordon has not only went on Thomas' branchline, but also Edward's many times and it all didn't start until Wrong Road.
@hitmeuponnicegramTrainBoy01 I think During S8 to 18 the people who were making the sets with the models and CGI didn't know about bigger tender engines like Henry, Emily, Spencer, Hiro, etc can't run on Thomas' branchline, but they probably thought that their audience wouldn't know the physics between bigger engines and smaller branchlines.
But guess Edward's Branchline fits for all engines' sizes. :/
My idea maybe maybe the branch I was strengthened to allow tender engines like Gordon to travel on it I mean they did the same with Edward's Branch line and look at Edwards Branch line now Gordon has been down that Branch like often including Henry to go click the flying kipper if you count in the CGI seasons
How do you think James will go on thomas' branchline or Henry can you do a video about those two when you get the chance
6:18 *Dingyfried* actually....
Personaly it would be the lenght to the cab that would maybe let the steam go down enough to go in :|
But Elsebridge viaduct for sure can take that tho
I could think that Gordon could fit on the branch because not to mention he has been on Kirk Ronan Branch and Edwards branch
If he did go on Thomas' branchline, he would die. That's all there is to it. I'm only joking, but great video !
Can you do custom Neville he's a Q1 class
the danger sign indicates where mines start so gordon doesn't have a problem there
but what about SHARP BENDS? gordon is long so he'd have a problem turning
he'd get easily damaged or derailed no matter the speed he goes at
also the faster an engine goes the more pressure it puts onto rails so if gordon is faster and heavier, he'd be more damaging to rails anyway
whens the next diesels vs steamies?
Because James is smaller than Gordon and Henry I think it'll be just fine on thomas'branchline
better view for gordon takes place on the kirk ronan branch
If he can go down Edwards branchline, he can sure as hell go down the blue puffballs path…
I don’t think it would be smart enough for any controller to let an A1 steam engine to travel on a rail line meant for smaller steam engines unless you’re willing to pay the consequences if God forbid the A1 tips over while going at high speeds on a branch line
Do you make beats? You be having some 🔥 sample material in your vids
Let me know if you all ever want a part 2 since there’s not only a little more we can talk about with this subject (like radius, track classification, etc.) but PLENTY of characters too! Enjoy guys :)
I want a part 2
sure, i'd like a part 2
what are your thoughts on the season 5 themed Thomas episode that is being made by some fans using G scale models
@Sud I don’t even think he would make the switch on to Ffarquhar unless he was going under 10mph the ENTIRE time 😅
Even then I bet his rods wouldn’t feel the best
Can we have a part Two
Actually Gordon is 92 tons, WITHOUT the tender, with his tender he's about 150, so 3 times the weight of Thomas
Ah my mistake!! Thank you so much homie :)
@@ItsTrainBoy No problem dude
You get 3 Thomeses and BOOM! you got a Gorden
Ok nerd (this is a joke)
@@ItsTrainBoyalso the prototype A1 is known as the A0
To be fair, the branch line to the lead mines isn’t Ffarquhar. In the episode, Thomas gets there by going behind Knapford. And on David Mitton’s map, it’s in the same location. Even with this information though, all of your points are sound and it was a fun watch
It isn't wrong for big strong Mainline Engines to travel on Branch Lines, but we just don't do it!
This maybe is a stupid question but can Diesel 10 really tear an engine to pieces? I wanna know if it’s possible.
That may just be the next video brother man- you got me curious too 👀
You forgot to mention an engines rigid wheelbase. The E2's had a wheelbase of 16 feet. But the A1's had a much larger wheelbase (from the front driving axle to the cab support axle) of 24 feet. So if the branchline were to have any tight turns, Gordon would more than likely damage his wheel flanges and ruin the track
I hope to touch on that in the second part! :)
Honestly I feel Gordon may not be the best comparison since the E2 has such a MASSIVE wheelbase itself when compared to the other, do you maybe recommend another engine to bring into the discussion for such?
Important to note: In Wrong Road, Awdry's reason for Gordon not going on branchlines is because he's too heavy for the track and bridges.
Thing is, later that same episode, Gordon is sent down Edward's branch and makes it all the way to Brendam. It's also implied that Gordon took the entire express down the branch as well, since the signalman meant to send Edward and his train that way.
So considering this, if Edward's line was strong enough for Gordon to literally take the express down it, then Thomas' branch could likely do the same thing probably up until the quarry tramway, though we don't know if the rails would survive his return journy.
Problem is that it's okay once. Long term, the extra weight and forces from the wheels would do more damage to the track.
Being too heavy doesn't mean that the line will immediately break when he goes on it, it just means the lines rated weight capacity is below his weight and that they're effectively sailing in uncharted waters. (ie. The line is being exposed to conditions beyond what it is rated to handle, it may hold up and just degrade faster than it otherwise would or it may just break in a particularly weak section, even if that section is still up to the standard on the branch line)
This happened in real life too, by the way. An old branch-line near where I live was built for small 1880s steam engines and never upgraded because almost everything it carried was hauled by a small shunter. With one exception: The handful of times there wasn't a Y or W class shunter to haul a freight pilot, they'd sometimes use a B class which is Australia's F-Unit despite the rails not being rated for anything close to it.
He may face speed restrictions on branch lines, even below the rated line speed, robbing him of his biggest benefit
There is the question of bridges: Thomas's branch line has several, whereas iirc Edward's branch only has 1 or 2.
There's also the tightness of curve tracks to consider, too small a radius for Gordon's coupled wheel length and he'd derail. The E2's curve clearness was an issue when they worked at Southampton Docks, which led to the USA Tanks taking over.
That a good point and ties into another I’d like to hit in the second installment (if there is one) since Thomas’s long wheelbase would have to be accommodated pretty much the whole way through? Ofc this entire argument also banks on the real life basis too, if we use the actual “modified E2” basis that Thomas really is this all goes right out the window 🤣
@@ItsTrainBoy imo i think after TFC bought thomas, he made the middle pair of drivers flangeless,which would fix the issue.
Don't forget turntables. According to the wiki, Knapford sheds is the only place on Thomas' branch line that has one and, if I recall, it's considered dangerous for large tender engines to travel backwards.
I think a tender engine can only travel at a maximum speed of 40mph with its tender leading
@@spearmintpony7105 Not dangerous so much as not ideal to a degree where you'll want to try and turn around. Main restriction is a much lower speed limit, which Gordon would have to follow on a lightly laid branchline regardless of which direction he was facing.
While Thomas can clear tunnels (specifically Hackenbeck Tunnel), 5 inches can be the difference between an engine clearing a bridge or tunnel, or scraping the tunnel ceiling. I feel Gordon can go up Thomas’ branch just fine, but he can only travel the line south of Hackenbeck.
Hope this doesn't get too wordy, but this is a subject I've given some thought to in the past :)
It's not so much a locomotive's weight as how that weight is distributed - the axle-load. We don't have a loading diagram for Thomas but at fifty two tons he likely has an axle-load of about 17.3 tons. So that's 17.3 tons exerted at each pair of wheels.
By comparison, Murdoch the 9F, although heavier than Thomas (86 tons without tender) spreads that weight over more axles, giving him a considerably axle-loading lower than Thomas: 15.5 tons!
Gordon, as an A1, has a known axle loading of 20 long tons. Those three-or-so tons difference between him and Thomas might make all the difference since every structure on the Ffarquhar branch would be rated for a specific maximum load, with ultimate authority for this decision lying with the railway's Civil Engineer (who is responsible for all track and infrastructure - bridges, tunnels, etc). We have historical examples of a railway's Civil Engineer barring certain locomotives from operating over certain lines - for example, one reason the Great Eastern 'Decapod' locomotive never took off was because of the GER's Civil Engineer expressing concerns over such a large and weighty machine operating over the many viaducts on the commuter lines into their London terminus at Liverpool Street. Likewise, the GWR were not able to build their 'King' class locos until after a number of bridges had been strengthened and the Civil Engineer agreed to allow for an increased axle-load over the relevant lines.
Now, as far as we know there are no major structures below Toryreck, the furthest up the branch that Gordon canonically went in the RWS. Above Toryreck however, we have the bridges over the Els and the Hackenbeck. The Hackenbeck bridge is a timber structure, and so probably has a fairly low axle-loading, and during the events of 'Thomas and the Twins', the Els bridge needed work done, and Thomas was temporarily deemed too heavy to use it.
This suggests that the axle-loading of the Ffarquhar Branch, at least above Elsbridge, is enough to take Thomas with a decent margin of error. Gordon however is probably pushing that envelope.
As for fitting through bridges and tunnels, that's all based on the loading-gauge, which establishes structural clearances. Since the NWR was built comparatively late and during wartime, I suspect a very large loading-gauge was used to maximise loads that could be carried, and we know that Gordon could fit through all main-line tunnels easily. This same large loading-gauge then probably set the standard for future extensions of the NWR, including the extension to Ffarquhar.
The other factor defining an engine's suitability for specific lines is the characteristics of the engine itself, and the work it is optimised for. Gordon, with his big driving wheels and large boiler, is suited for endurance work at high speeds, like on the Main Line. Thomas meanwhile, with smaller driving wheels, is better suited for snappy acceleration and quick point-to-point operations, as you would expect on the Ffaquhar Branch. Stick Gordon on the branch and you're not only wasting his strength, but you're also wasting money - he would be far more costly to operate under such conditions than a smaller, more optimised branch engine like Thomas or Percy.
How about wrong road? Gordon goes down the Wellsworth Branch line and meets Bill and Ben?
I personally wouldn’t count it too much JUST because we see Boco, Donald, and Douglas work those rails so the weight/ radius accommodations are PROBABLY there? Or at least similar to Ffarquhar which has an E2 on it so it still works in my mind 🤣
The main thing I’d be worried about is weight restrictions on the bridges. As you said, Thomas is pretty big for a tank engine. Plus the Knapford to Elsbridge stretch was made for Coffee Pots. We also know Toby and Percy are smaller than Thomas. It’s very possible that Thomas maxes out the branches restrictions already. Gordon going to the mines worked, because the old route didn’t have any bridges until Elsbridge, but he probably couldn’t go much further.
One thing that needs to be talked about is axle load. Gordon, being a Pacific, has 8 axles plus however many tender axles to spread his 90 tons on. Meanwhile, Thomas is just an 0-6-0 who has only 3 axles to spread his 56 tons. Doing some quick math with giving Gordon a 6-wheel tender (meaning 11 axles total), Gordon bears down on the rails at 8 tons per axle. Thomas, meanwhile, has a whopping 18 tons per axle. So, weight limitations in mind, Gordon would be less damaging to the rails in that regard than Thomas would be. Thomas my man, you be fat.
“Thomas, dude, lay off the coal man it’s really not helping the curves..” - Percy 🤣
And my dude that is a HUGE and awesome point, I was waiting to see if people liked this installment and then follow up with radius restrictions and axle loads and you’ve blown my mind already. I wouldn’t have imagined it to come out in that way but now, I’m even more excited to look into it 😅
This would be true if not for weight distribution. Most of Gordon’s weight is resting on his 6 drivers, giving him an axle loading equal to Thomas
@@Ty-yt3lj, even with that point, Gordon and the other A1/3 Pacifics still have less or equitable weight on the axles than an E2
That and you have to remember that technically Gordon is an A1/1 due to modifications or upgrades he receved during a rebuild in.. 1939 i think? So hes probably a slight bit heavier than the standard Gresley A1/A3s. Probably.
Gordon is actually just less than 5 tons lighter than Thomas once you factor in that coal tender, spreading around 150 tons across 11 Axels would be a little over 13 tons per Axel
Gordon also went down Edward's branchline in Wrong Road, although that happened mostly offscreen. We only see Gordon arriving at Brendam.
The big thing to remember about weight and speed restrictions on things like branch lines: They're not made to prevent "if this happens once, it will happen once" type accidents, they're made to prevent "if we make a habit of this, it will happen too regularly to be acceptable" accidents. This is especially true for things like bridges. Even with modern roadway bridges, we're running into problems where old construction isn't built to handle regular use by hundreds of heavier vehicles carrying heavier loads.
Transportation like rails, bridges, and infrastructure needs to be built with long-term safety in mind as well as short-term. An emergency situation like Down the Mine, especially early enough in the NWR's history for Gordon to be the biggest and most effective engine for the job of hauling an E2 out of a hole, would waive those restrictions temporarily, but that's an extreme case.
I always remember what my grandfather told me: "If it's stupid and it works, it's still stupid, and you're lucky."
Keep in mind that it's not so much about the weight of an engine. But more of an axle load. Gordon may be much larger but his weight is spread across more axles and therfore would proberbly cause no more damage to the rails than Thomas would.
This was a episode I was going to make about Gordon wanting to go on every line on Sodor in my new show “The Adventures of Sodor” YOU CAN READ MINDS
To figure out if the Ffarquhar branch could handle Gordon or not, we'd need to know the max axle loading of the line and it's tightest curve (essentially the most important factors).
Height clearances wouldn't be too bad a problem as we Daisy standing at 3.72 meters can easily clear the tunnel, so I assume 3.99 meters max would at worst be rather close.
The tunnel argument in favour of Gordon doesn't really hold water when you remember Duncan.
Other issues may include: Trees, minimum curves, weight of the tender, turntable/loop sizes, passing loops, yard-limits, signals, sheds, ashpits, water-towers, Coaling Stages, Platforms (why the LMS's Hughes Crabs were built with inclined cylinders in the 20's) ground-pressure (distinct from axle-load) exhaust effects, Compulsory Cowcatchers in/near the quarry ect.
@It'sTrainBoy I've got a topic for you. In the All Engines Go episode Overnight Stop, Thomas Percy and Nia are assigned to take tankers to Wayland Station. Wayland is an area in Norfolk, England. Norfolk is a county in East Anglia, which is the location of the Wisbech and Upwell Tramway, where Toby used to work. Could this mean that Thomas, Percy and Nia went all the way across the mainland to Toby's old line?
It also depends on width
Gordon’s cylinders may be too wide for the platforms
That does brings an interesting thought. Though in Wrong Road, the reasoning why Gordon isn't allowed to run on branch lines was because the tracks and bridges aren't strong enough as the main line. In my headcanon though, after the events of Wrong Road some years later in 1970 when the NWR was undergoing reconstruction and repairs (reference to MRR being my favorite movie even though it's a not officially canon into the actual universe), it was decided that Edward's Branch Line should undergo rebuilding the tracks and bridges so that the bigger engines can travel to Brendam Docks. Might not sound right, but it could be interesting. And also, I think there would've been a speed limit on Thomas' line so Gordon would've been able to get there and back safely.
As for the discussion, this sorta reminded me of two original stories called 'Green Grass for Gordon' (SidekickJason) and 'Gordon Takes the Branch Line' (cactus190706) where Gordon once traveled on Thomas' Branch Line. But in all honesty, if Thomas' Branch Line were to be rebuilt to accommodate bigger engines too like Edward's Branch, the Peel Godred Branch and Kirk Ronan Line, I think it would've made things a bit easier for Gordon as well (but with still a speed limit just in case).
This is really interesting to think about now we need to figure out if Murdoch would fit 😆
"Well, Gordon! You wanted to show Salty a thing or two, and you've certainly done that! You've shown him how silly it is to ignore 'Go Slow' signs!"
The real question is can Hank run on Thomas’s branchline?
What if Henry kept his old shape?
I feel like a point worth mentioning here is weight distribution. While gordon is heavier than thomas when put to a scale, his weight is also spread out over his many sets of wheels, including the tender. Granted, this is going into potentially very mathy business that I don't have the patience to do myself, but perhaps if a part two does happen you could look into Gordon's weight distribution (axle load is the term I think) and speak on that.
I think the HORNBY Toby would have trouble passing under bridges. He’s literally a electric paper weight
I suppose too Gordon's weight is spread out over a larger area. Using the figures you've quoted, Thomas' weight relative to his length comes out at 1.6 tons per foot in length, while Gordon is 1.3 tons per foot in length. Plus Gordon has 18 wheels (including his tender) while Thomas only has 6, so that's 5 tons per wheel and 8.7 tons per wheel respectively.
flying Scotsman goes down minor lines pretty often so in theory Gordon should be able to go down the Ffarquhar branch also the fat controller probably wanted the strongest engine to help Thomas
The tvs leadmines is actually not in thomas’ branchline rather a branch after knapford according to the david map iirc
Don’t ever let Gordon hear you call him fat, he will riot
Industrial welder/fabricator here. It would be smart to factor in weight distribution. Gordon is heavier but he has more wheels to distribute the weight, like snowshoes. The formula for weight distribution is weight divided by the points of contact (wheels).
Please consider Doing a video on what if D5704 (one of bocos relatives) came to sodor on trial instead of the other diesels that came to sodor
Is that the Ski-On Neon coin collection sound I hear at the start of this video?!?
These are the answers to those questions you randomly think about.
Gordon has 9 axles (including tender) so an average weight per axle of 10 tons, Thomas has three axles, so an average weight per axle of just under 17 tons. So in terms of axle weight, Gordon would do less damage than Thomas! Remember too that his tender can swing from side to side, as can his front bogie, so his rigid length is somewhat less than 70'. However Awdry does mention that Gordon is not allowed on Thomas's and Edward's branch lines owing to being too big and heavy (although Gordon did wind up at Edward's terminus where Bill and Ben debated whether he should be scrapped or dumped in the harbour!)
With regards to "Down the Mine", the illustrations in the book have Gordon the "safe" side of the "Engines must not pass this point" notice, attached to Thomas by a much longer cable than that seen on TV.
I mean the hardest part would be just before the tunnel, as now you have a very tight curve leading into a tunnel with no straight to deal with overhang. I think he would get stuck there with his buffer beam smashed into the side of the tunnel.
Didn't Gordon go on Edward's branch line in ''Wrong Road''?
Gordon: ok I’m gonna try this!
*Later*
Gordon: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I remember something being said that bigger engines, such as Gordon, weren’t allowed on branch lines due to reasons such as the ground those types of lines were built on being less stable than the ground main lines were on. That or the tracks weren’t able to take the weight of such large engines all that well…
Awesome thumbnail 😄👍👍
time to see if we thought alike
edit: i'm pretty sure we did not think alike
Or perhaps Topham had Gordon put on a cash of plot armor that he keeps out behind the sheds.
Gordon also went on Edwards Branch line in the episode wrong road
You forgot axle weight or axle loading the weight the loco puts down
In this installment sadly and thank you for pointing that out, if people are interested I want to make a second installment hitting that and radius restrictions that would come with an E2!! (and what else would be able to run that line by effect if that makes sense)
Gordon is so 🔥 awesome
"Hm.. a crane would be to heavy to lift Thomas out without the ground sinking. I KNOW! Lets use our A1 Pacific that is way heavier instead!"
I like trains 🙂
Loved this video! I say you do a video, discussing if Gordon could have handled Edwards branch-line, the Brendam branch, as we do see Gordon at the docks in some episodes.
If Gordon did take over the Farquhar branch line, that means Thomas would still be a station pilot. And the events of Trouble In the Shed wouldn’t happen, because the reason why Gordon, Henry, and James went on strike in the first place is because they didn’t want to fetch their own coaches while Thomas was on his branch line. If Gordon is taking over the branch line, the big engines wouldn’t have a reason to go on strike because Thomas would still be the station pilot.
Gordon’s route availability would affect his ability to “normally” operate over the branch line.
By that, I’m suggesting that he would struggle to stick to timetable.
Due to his relative heavy axle loading, he would be limited in running speed over specific structures, that’s just how it works in the UK.
The likelihood of Gordon not fitting the loading gauge over the branch is actually slim, it’s not often that the British railway builders stray from the standard loading gauge.
The weight of Gordon is the issue more than anything else, but it’d just mean reduced running speeds over specific structures, as per a RT 3185 form in the modern era.
Gordon could run on the vast majority of Thomas' branch line, if not all of it albeit at vastly reduced speeds and probably with a lot of extra track maintenance. It wouldn't be something I'd be doing on the regular, but if we're talking about something akin to Thomas derailing and Gordon being the only engine available to pull the breakdown train over to him, it's 100% doable.
For reference, I'm basing this off of non-fiction stories I've heard about an old former branch-line ending in two sidings near where I live that was built relatively cheaply in the 1880s and never got upgraded for heavier trains (Literally used the quartz which is abundant in the area and old steam train ash for ballast) because all that ever went down it was small freight pilots (ie. 1-10 freight cars hauled by a small shunting loco for local freight movements) along with a rail tractor on the actual sidings for the shunting itself but at the same time, I've heard a story from a former driver for both VR and V/Line that they did once send a B Class diesel (Australia's version of the F-Unit) down there a few times when there wasn't any working shunting locos to haul the pilots, albeit at like 10-15km/h for safety.
In the RWS, the lead mine is on the first part of the branch before Elsbridge, which isn't really far from Knapford, in the TVS however, the lead mine is just west of Knapford as its own little line, which is why it passes the ocean in the episode
Damn, Topham really has some questionable decisions like sending out Gordon to rescue Thomas instead of a breakdown train.
I’ve found aeg rainbow thomas kina or kima and diesel with rainbow decals for $4:63
Down The Mine was a WV Awdry story. We know how much he researched things.
The weight you give for Gordon is just for the A1 locomotive. The tender takes the total weight up to 150t
The thing is though: who operated his branch line prior? Seems like there weren’t prior tank engines, so the line may have been helped by the bigger engines. Hence why Gordon was upset when he had to run back to front the one time, he may have had to do it previously.
"Coffee Pot" engines, from the early 1900's used to run the branch line, back when the line only went as far as Elsbridge. In 1925, the line was extended to Ffarquhar and the coffee pots couldn't do the work alone so Thomas arrived to take over and it is believed that the coffee pots went to the quarry to work and after Toby arrived, they were most likely scraped.
Side Note: The coffee pots were much smaller than even Percy and they were nicknamed "Coffee Pots" as their boilers we're placed vertically, making them look like coffee pots.
I knew Thomas and Gordon were about the same size in real life!
Bruh your vids are so good when you upload I literally put off watching because it's so good.
One thing always bugged me was that the "big" engines' bumpers were always shown as being well above those of the small engines...but of course they must all be at a standard height? Thomas shunts Gordon's cars and the engines often trade off their cars with each other. I'm assuming this is just an illustrator's trick to make the engines seem so unequal, for story purposes.
actually, gordon isnt the biggest engine on sodor, its henry, because if you compare them both henry's tender is just slightly bigger which makes him the biggest engine and also known as the strongest engine for taking the kipper as it is very long and heavy, unless the idea of him being the strongest in CGI isnt cannon.
gordon: i can go on the branchline.
Murdoch: ... what about me?
Sam: dont forget me.
"I won't run on branch lines!"
- Gordon.
Oh they can go in branch lines mainkine locomotives have been in branchlines for years but only for a good reason. They can in it more than once as it ps not durable with the tighter turns but they can go in the branch lines as Gordon did in down the mine.
hey there weren't only 2 episodes there were much more that featured Gordon on a branchline in S3 too!
Marvel had the Thomas license for a while, were was this issue of "What If..."
i believe in down the mine the track gordon travels on is completely fine for him, we dont see him cross small bridges like on the ffarquhar branch for example and those set heavy weight restrictions on engines, usually being the main limiter and not the track itself, and he doesnt move past any unreasonably tight turns for how long he is compared to a tank engine like thomas
This lady is just enjoying the thought process n tonnes of cute gordon (and Thomas)
"The answer may surprise you"
If your gonna say that my answer is yes Gordon could work on farquhar