I'm an AGP transsexual and I transitioned hormonally and socially at 19 and I think it was exactly the right time for me. I'm in a great romantic relationship with a wonderful woman, I'm more at peace with my body now than I've been my whole life, I pass well as a woman, and my career is on track. I thought about transitioning as early as 13 years old but the prospect both terrified and excited me. I didn't want to masculinize but I also heard detransition stories that terrified me, and I thought I'd never be allowed to transition due to my autogynephilic feelings. I personally think it is a bad idea to offer castration to an adolescent though. It's a horrifying decision to make at such a young age. I suppose GNRH agonists are better than the alternative of self castration, but I think great caution is needed here. Anne's book helped me greatly to understand and accept myself as I am and to pursue a meaningful life. I'm glad I've transitioned and laid my cards on the table before marriage and kids like i would have if i was born in the 50s or 60s. I feel I can pursue my life honestly now, without such a big skeleton in the closet to hide. But gender transition is a very serious endeavor.
Yikes! He mentioned how important the aspect of developing a romantic relationship is with the female artifact, and that takes a long time. So how then, can he think kastration at 13-15 is a good idea. Once their balls are gone, so will be the relationship they had just started to build with the artifact. He’s not being consistent. And it’s easy for him to say what he thinks he would have done, and to think he would have lived a better life? He got to middle age, and was able to reach so many goals/aspirations that are actually innate to het men(marriage, children, career), before sacrificing it all for the female partner he created within himself.
He’s a deeply disordered man, a pervert and a likely predator. I don’t think he has many cohesive ideas. His whole life has been in service of a fetish. Of course he’s sad. The only way to help these people, ironically, is to completely refuse to accept this behavior early on…when they’re teenagers told their behavior is wrong they can still have a chance to get help for their fetish and course correct their life.
You can’t have a relationship with an “artifact” or object…only with a being. Fantasies inside your head aren’t beings. So the only relationship they have is with themselves: pathological narcissism. I also think it’s hilarious that people can’t guess that he has a castration fetish. His obviously faux-concern for young boys in encouraging them to harm themselves doesn’t fool me in the slightest. He’s a predator through and through, as his sexual misconduct firing also suggests. 🤢🤮
Self-aware males with autogynephilia seem so rare. As others have said, acknowledging it would shatter the fantasy. What’s the difference between those who can handle the truth and even find relief from knowing themselves more truly versus the majority who can’t or won’t? Is it autism?
Autistic people are not exceptionally self aware, though I do have trouble understanding how a boy/man with autism can develop autogynephilia. It actually would seem that boys with autism may be more likely to develop a cross seggs identity, not due to autogynephilia. It seems they would be inclined to feel like they aren’t men, or don’t want to be men, rather than actively wanting to be women. Especially due to how they process p0rn0graphy in such a different way than neurotypical people. I can see how autogynephilia would happen more in boys/men with ADHD though. That makes sense. Also keep in mind that autism is certainty overdiagnosed now, and often misdiagnosed, especially among females. Many people who think they have ASD and even ADHD, do not have it. I don’t know if it’s because of practitioners’ lack of understanding/knowledge about cluster B personality disorders(more likely), or their reluctance to diagnose them, because of stigma, but most of the people walking around who just got a diagnosis of either ASD or ADHD in adulthood, probably have a personality disorder and not ASD or ADHD. Particularly if they are under a certain age, as public schools have been on top of autism for quite a long time now. I have one kid with ASD and one with ADHD. There’s just no way that someone can get through their entire school career and not have it picked up by their parents and teachers that something is off. But personality disorders, especially BPD, doesn’t typically start to even show symptoms until mid to late teens, often older. Even Stella and Sasha won’t talk about, or don’t understand, that most of the girls with ROGD whose parents they work with have a personality disorder. That’s how stigmatized it is, and it stigmatizes family more than even the patient.
@@katieandnick4113 fascinating, what you are saying makes complete sense to me. Absolutely, asd is over diagnosed. I have seen several detransitioners mention being diagnosed with bpd. There are many males with autogynephila who are outspoken online about trans rights who seem to having raging NPD (eg Rachel McKinnon types) - if someone where to tell them they are autistic, they’d probably revel in it and add it to the list about why they are the most marginalized woman ever. I associate bpd more with females and npd more with males, but I’m not sure if that association is completely correct. I don’t know as much about NPD. I can’t tell if the TW with raging NPD lack self awareness or if they are aware but manipulative.
@@katieandnick4113 I do know one male who I believe has asp and agp. I don’t know him well, so I could be misinterpreting, but the way I can make sense of the situation is this - his father was abusive and he related more to females growing up, even though all of his interests are male typical. I see the autogynephila developing as part of him not wanting to be like his father and also not wanting to objectify women. He’s in his forties, does not pass at all even though he’s had ffs, and is very emotionally stunted and lacks self awareness. Has an ok job in computer science related field but is very lonely, longs for a lesbian relationship. He posts online about getting misgendered all the time and just says it’s part of the casual transphobia he faces every day. I think he conceptualizases himself as a tomboy, but in his very large male frame it just reads as a man with long hair. I feel like having an awareness of autogynephilia would have been more helpful to him than to go on thinking his whole life that he’s a woman trapped in a large man’s body. He doesn’t strike me as having npd, though he is very self centered and clueless. I find it ironic that he never wanted to be like his father, but in his own confused way, is still “harming” (maybe too strong a word) some women by taking up space that does not belong to him (he’s held positions in feminist organizations; feminism is something he considers a part of him). Maybe I am miss reading the situation, but this is how I have made sense of it.
It's worth keeping in mind that influential activists have denied that AGP is real for at least twenty years now. Accurate information simply isn't given out to most gender-questioning youth. Instead they're told that their feelings mean they're 'really women inside'. Have a look at the blogs of activists Jack Molay and Julia Serano for examples. I have AGP, but I didn't even hear of the concept until a couple of years ago, in my mid-thirties (thanks to accidentally stumbling into r/GenderCritical after midnight, haha). And I thought I knew a decent amount about sexuality research. It's not clear whether it's a majority or a minority who can't handle the truth ... because the ones who can't handle the truth have shouted down and bullied the others into keeping quiet.
Ann Lawrence, formerly Mark Lawrence, was forced to resign from his previous job as an anesthesiologist due to a filed complaint by medical personnel who witnessed what they felt was misconduct by Lawrence towards a female patient: Lawrence questioned repeatedly whether an Ethiopian patient had signs of genital mutilation. The gynecologist said no multiple times. After the gynecologist left the room, Lawrence put on a glove and performed a vulva exam without the patient’s or gynecologist’s consent on the anesthetized patient. In order to not go through the formal investigation, which would, in his words, cause unwanted media attention, Lawrence resigned. There are other allegations of misconduct from Lawrence by multiple trans women that Lawrence made inappropriate comments of a sexual nature when photographing their genitals for his website page on genital surgery. There was also concern that although Lawrence has worked as a sex therapist, he never received training for counseling or psychotherapy, and has professed an erotic interest in surgical genital modification. Edit: I’ll add that Lawrence touched the genitals of the unconscious patient during his presence in the operating room as the attending anesthesiologist. I mention this to draw attention to magnitude of the inappropriateness of an anesthesiologist (with gloves on or not) examining or touching the patient at all other than in their role of anesthetizing the patient for surgery or checking vitals (still usually done by monitoring medical devices), let alone examining or touching the patient’s genitals, to the point where anesthesiologists are usually not even “scrubbed” ie sterilized bc it is assumed they will not be touching the patient bc that’s not a part of their job.
@@nastja33 I think there’s a blog post about it by a trans woman? But if you Google the keywords (Ann Lawrence + anesthesiologist + resignation + sexual misconduct + allegations) you can find the facsimiles of the university hospital paperwork outlining the allegations, the details of the occurrence, a report on the intended investigation, and then Lawrence’s resignation.
It all sounds a bit hearsay... If you write such allegations at least quote the source. And isn't it a bit suspicious a trans woman wrote about it,given all the negative feedback Lawrence received by many fellow transitioners?
@@ivanlondon I mean there are legal documents outlining the whole thing from the university hospital he used to work at. It’s not like the documents are forged or something. He even admits he did it, but that he didn’t mean anything inappropriate (?!) by it. I agree the comments from the trans women are unprovable, but there are multiple allegations.
Re Children , the early studies of young boys assumed pre-transexual showed that psychotherapy didn't even need to work (re gender identity/ dysphoria). Because in both the treatment and the control groups , desistance was the outcome for almost all participants. The assumption that gender- something is children's real problem ( rather than merely the presenting problem, or something that is falsely framed as a problem ) is part of what has fuelled the contagion first among therapists/ clinicians , then among parents ( as important re the early childhood " wrong body " phenomenon as a different kind of contagion is among adolescents and young adults). We need to recognise that the normalisation of transition laundered medical abuse of young children , and susceptible parents framing of children in that way is in part iatrogenic, and that failure of ordinary desistance is not only iatrogenic ( which is also propped up by a cult like cultural narrative ), but further than that , many therapy practices are designed to " cure " ( prevent ) desistance. None of this negates the fact that compassionate , ethical , and reality grounded counselling / therapy is needed urgently to help provide support and to cut children free from the horrific drift-net into fish finger factory that is conducted under the pretext of " identifying trans children early ". .. But that can't be achieved without undoing the assumption that gender- focussed therapy will provide the answers. We need grounded , ethical , and developmentally literate psychologists , therapists and counsellors to have training in reprogramming families and children from the gender spell , rather than a whole new generation of therapists exclusively focussed on gender . There is definately a place for an association ( or better more than one , and definately without a dangerous peak body structure ) to train people , from therapists to teachers , to GPs ) pediatricians to respond in ways that avoid sending children to the funnel to gender framed self - estrangement and sterilization. And it would be great for there to be lists of therapists ( NOT under a single accreditation process ) who are comfortable in dealing with gender as the presenting problem , and in ways that respond to expectations of parents and others indoctrinated in the current gender response meme. But where children and parents arrive needs to be not centrally focused on gender , or at least the practitioners need to understand normal development , and to be comfortable in conducting " differential diagnosis" ( not necessarily in the sense of ending at a diagnosis, there are many useful approaches that aren't clinical. ) . These points are about early childhood/ prepubescent children currently framed as having gender trouble or having bodies that will be " wrong " if allowed to mature. And it is very young children who were and are the primary target of WPATH since their relaunch , and the target of the interests that back WPATH and who have backed the propaganda and legal battles to change laws and remove protections against sterilizing interventions and pathways enacted for social reasons. And as this conversation shows , the prototypical early Benjamin Society acolytes are very much attached to and motivated by the "trans child" mythology
I have known a lot of mtf /ftm trans people , not just AGP this applies to HSTS also.Anne is right when he says post op trans mtf end up lonely. Pre op partners are available but usually strange people, but once they get rid of their bits , no one is interested…….it’s sad
@@MysticalPotatoHeadGrooveThing There have been countless of studies that have proven that gender and sex are 2 different things and this dude clearly knows nothing about gender dysphoria. Studies have proven his theories wrong for example the one where he thinks that straight trans women are confused gay men and that the other half are perverts. Studies have proven countless of times that that is not really the case but yet he is still clinging on to them and I am surprised that this dude was in charge of the gender clinic in Toronto. He stopped working there in 2009.
@@Simpy553which ppl ? TRAs ? You’re not a sexology expert. Ann is and knows he’s a man and knows the word for his condition : heterosexual trans identified males. You’re not even trans but a sad loud troon 🤡
We should distinguish between metaphors and reality. Nobody can be in a wrong body, nobody can be trapped in a body. The mind is not something that exists outside of bodily reality - it is produced and maintained by the body. This book and the entire concept of transition are based on metaphysical beliefs and false premises.
no, you are wrong. First of all, with a name such as "Stunning and Brave" you are ridiculing a debilitating and crippling condition like gender dysphoria. Our brain is wired a certain way. Certain individuals are born with eyes of different colors (heterochromia), so, why is it that far-fetched to imagine that some individuals are born with a brain that is not sexed in a congruent manner with their biological sex? This has nothing to do with soul, mind, spirit and all that metaphysical rubbish. Gender dysphoria is a neurobiological condition that is innate and not induced. There is no solution. This is what I do not get. Transphobes like yourself, what do you suggest? What alternative does one have? I am much, much, much happier now that I am fully transitioned, but I am not AGP. I am very angry I was not allowed to transition earlier. I am attracted exclusively to males. I do not care about my chromosomes. All I cared was living the gender role as a woman and being able to attract males as a woman. Whether I am XX or XY, is totally irrelevant to me.
@@tarcisiasiniscalchi6641 Can you explain what your reasoning is for believing that gender dysphoria is an innate biological/genetic condition? If we look at brain cells we aren't going to see different DNA there to the rest of the body surely. I thought the whole brain in a different body was debunked long ago. I also don't think that idea fits the available research, current trends in diagnosis and the variation we see in different societies throughout history. How do you explain this variation? You are also suggesting there is no solution but clearly most gender dysphoric kids grow out of it via puberty. We can also see that the majority of trans ppl don't fully transition and in those who have they unfortunately seem to have worse outcomes for life expectancy. The trans ppl who seem to do well have gone through a therapeutic process where they come to terms with never actually being able to be the other sex. Why do you wish you transitioned earlier? When you say you weren't allowed was that due to age?
I'm new to this series having only recently seen a link to this episode. I followed the link specifically because I've long admired Dr Lawrence since I read her book (discussed in the video). The issues here are discussed so clearly, sensitively and indeed courageously, with great honesty. But I have to say I was deeply shocked by Dr L's recommendation concerning young males with severe AGP. This wasn't followed through by the interviewers, although the initial spontaneous reaction of one of them, together with that silence, suggests that they might share that sense of shock -- and profound disagreement? Of course I don't know. The names of Dr John Money and the tragic David Reimer came to mind. Dr Lawrence has more right than very many others to have her views on AGP heard with deep respect, but in this case I think, sadly, that's she's simply wrong. Otherwise, a great discussion from which I learned much (although I already know a great deal about the subject, objectively and subjectively). Thank you.
Stella & Sasha made an interesting point in introducing their new season, which will be on video rather than just audio - that it will be good for listeners to see their reactions, since their approach is more often to listen and not to push back & they seem to realize that it would be good for people to see how they react to some things.
@@Poecilia1963IMO they should be more rational and critical of whom they "listen to" in terms of clinical expertise (audio-only or not). It could easily be misconstrued as endorsement.
I’ve read Anne Lawrence book from cover to cover as I was with an AGP man at a time! What’s important to mention is that Autogenophelia is not limited to sexual attraction but also romantic love and attachment. Basically these men are in love with the woman they have created in their head and deeply attached to this made up self woman! IMO is a mental condition and alternative treatments should start being considered as well!
AGP widowhood is tragic, but what is wrong with a man loving his feminine side? IMHO both AGP and AAP are both steps to higher consciousness and the self awareness of the soul.
I appreciate this series of interviews so much as they are helping me think deeply about the various degrees of pain we all share as we seek to discover solutions which are balanced, thoughtful, just, and above all, do no harm. The title of Anne Lawrence’s book, Men Trapped in Men’s Bodies, is such a powerful statement of the torment experienced by one living with AGP, and it also recognizes that even after transition, one is still male. I think that the comment written by one viewer expressing her distress with what is happening to women as males come to claim our private spaces, could possibly be calmed, as it would be for me, if we could just agree that males and females are distinct categories we cannot choose, which deserve a right to privacy and protection. The NCAA swimming championship was held this weekend and we were forced to watch a male who “feels” like a female, take the place of a woman. I was fourteen when Title Nine passed, and here we are once again fighting to have a place of our own. As a society we need to create a way to value all of our members without dismissing females in the way Anne mentioned early in the interview, and as we have seen throughout history. If AGP is a sexual orientation, then let’s recognize it as such, but it should not follow that these males are now women. As I grow older I have learned that we just don’t always get what we want. So many of us share the struggle of integrating our life experiences into a healthy adult self. Will we develop resentment or humility?
I am against the current wave of "trans activism", but I also don't think younger transsexuals like me or older transsexuals like Anne should have to give up our own happiness just so bio women can feel more comfortable. When we pass and blend and have surgery we cause little problem. I don't want big burly hairy untransitioned men in the bathroom with me either.
@@dakotamadeleinel.1973 of course some people can go through transition but not erase women, talk on behalf of them or remove their rights. Otherwise, this is basic mysoginy.
At about @31:00, I think we all may become more androgynous with aging, because our sex drive diminishes. I was listening with interest until the very end, where I reacted with horror when Dr Lawrence said she would have castrated herself at puberty had she known of a way to do it safely. That sounds insanely frightening. I DON’T WANT kids to learn how to do this.
Why are kastration and analogues mentioned for pubescent, supposedly AGP boys, but not spironolactone? I mean, I don’t think any of it’s a good idea, but also, when it comes to preventing masculinization, by the time a boy really understands how he feels, or how he thinks he feels(these are 14 year old, terminally online children we’re talking about), why would kastration work, but not analogues? Anything that fully blocks puberty, and everything that goes with it, shouldn’t be considered, even by doctors who do believe it’s ever beneficial to transition a child. At least with spironolactone, it’s not permanent, and it probably doesn’t cause the full destruction of the endocrine system the way analogues do. Lawrence did make a good point about the internet changing everything, and I don’t believe that he can compare his experiences to those of boys today. I also don’t believe that he got aroused by the idea of wearing a dress when he was prepubescent. In the absence of trauma, prepubescent, gynocentric males rarely even think about girls in a non friend way. Little girls and androcentric boys do get crushes, but they’re not seggsual until puberty starts. Lawrence admitted that most people are reluctant to face regrets about transition when what they’ve done is permanent(like SRS or kastration). He didn’t transition until he was in his 40’s, and probably wouldn’t acknowledge regrets if he had them. Can you imagine kastrating a young male, and what degree of regret he would have? I think it would be insurmountable for most. Jazz Jennings’ friend, Noelle, had SRS at around 19-20, and he has disappeared completely from public life. He doesn’t even seem to have social media. He may not even be alive anymore. Surgeries should be reserved for autogynephilic men over the age of 50, IMO. Unfortunately for their families, they are probably likely to have the best outcome, psychologically, if they’ve been married and had children. I wish we could stop buying into the “born this way” narrative, and get down to what actually causes this in males. Gender critics have been able to, for the most part, conclude that nobody is born in the wrong body. Why, then, have we bought into the narrative than AGP is innate? Seggsual depravity is absolutely a broad category that males seem to lean towards, but what is the cause? I would guess trauma, physical abuse, seggsual abuse, neglect. Gay males do seem to be born with a higher propensity towards cross seggs ideation, and even for those of that group who transition, it seems SRS is a bad idea.
My impression is that Lawrence suggested castration because PBs are difficult to access without medical help. The same would be true of spironolactone. Lawrence appears to have a strong DIY ethos - he began his transition by taking some sort of industrial oestrogen that he sourced himself. The whole picture here is extremely disturbing, especially from someone who worked as a medical doctor.
@@Gerry_Davies agreed. I didn’t know a lot about him before this interview, but I did have the idea that he was somehow different than other men with a similar profile. I was wrong. This actually causes me to have even more respect, I guess, for Debbie Hayton, as he is very vocally opposed to childhood transition. But, damn, the self awareness is so incredibly lacking in transitioned AGPs. My biggest problem with the “born this way” narrative is that it works to make people feel like it’s not necessary to even try and figure out what causes the condition. That’s a big problem.
@@katieandnick4113 *My biggest problem with the “born this way” narrative is that it works to make people feel like it’s not necessary to even try and figure out what causes the condition. That’s a big problem.* Is *"born this way"* a problem to homosexual people too ? Do I need to find a cause of my same-sex attraction before I embrace it ?
@@khanhminhnguyen7274 Katie is saying the 'born this way' narrative is being used by trans activists to prevent therapist from examining why someone might feel distress over their natal sex. People can developed gender dysphoria from sexual abuse, homophobia(internalized or external), AGP, or not fitting in with same-sex peers.
@@scooter-wy3qs Sure. I myself do not like gender ideology; nevertheless, I need to be fair to people who suffer gender dysphoria , especially ones with Blanchard's typology. I were born homosexual. So could gender dysphoric people. Science is less ambiguous about same-sex attraction than gender identity, but that does not mean gender dysphoria is not biological.
Amazing to hear him promoting castration. Wonder if he has anything to do with Eunuch being a gender identity in the new DSM .Has he got anything to do w W Path that you are aware of?
His obsessions and ideology are very representative of the inner controlling membership of the Harry Benjamin Society (now given the WPATH name , and posing as a professional body since 2010/11) . Very telling how he so openly dived into the creep claims about early childhood sexuality. ... His use of the interview to market of self- butchery for children likely made very " pleased ".
It started with a desire and curiosity in wearing a girl's ballet outfit. Well if you remove the "girl's" from that, it was just a little boy that had a desire to wear an outfit he found attractive. Why is there this jump that a boy with such desires must automatically be trans, or be dealing with gender dysphoria? From my own experience the only that had me questioning if I really was a boy were all the things I was told boys didn't do, or like or wear. Perhaps all of this is a result of social rules limits and stereotypes. Girls can have interest of desires of things associated to boys, they don't get these accusations or diagnoses. It just seems like people are pathologizing gender non conformity in kids and yes, adults. Why has this not seemingly to be considered? I have just always preferred looks and styles associated with girls, but if you look at history males wore clothing that cause someone like matt walsh to run for the hills!
Right, it sounds like-at least potentially-a lot could be avoided if boys were allowed to have pretty/fun outfits... instead, they're told that this normal desire is abnormal, creating shame. When young children are shamed for their desires, psychosexual and social development is at risk of becoming warped! We are meaning-making creatures, and the logic of children will run wild when given the task of "what is wrong with me" or "why do I want wrong things." I notice that Lawrence is highly intelligent and that many trans identified people seem to have... busy brains. It seems to me-and I'm definitely stacking up assumptions at this point-that giving an intelligent, busy-brained child such problems is even MORE dangerous when it comes to seeding delusions that will persist throughout life..
@@irradiated_woman8016 Thank you for this response. I wish more would see this. I am thinking much of the trans issue we face today is a direct result of the shaming of "feminine" boys, that otherwise are pretty much your average boy...oh, and very VERY likely NOT gay either (another assumption that needs to die out when it comes to Gender non conforming boys. I really would like Genspec to tackle this issue.
I agree that general gender non-conformity should not be forced or punished or pushed away, but you seem to fail to grasp something related to AGP. If the AGP hypothesis is to be believed, AGP boys do not like particular garment because it's that particular garment. They like it because it's associated with being female. If all women wore pants and all men wore dresses, the AGP would want to wear pants. It is because the clothing is gendered that it is desirable to the AGP. To remove the "girl" as you say would have removed any desire to wear that particular garment.
If something else was culturally female coded, it would be that thing, so I think you're point that tutu dress isn't inherently feminine doesn't stand. Not that I'm that convinced that helping AGP males have body modifications is a productive social policy (I'm having a hard time thinking there is an easy answer to what to do with such a strange and to be real, utterly pointless and paradoxical predicament)
It is refreshing to listen to a studied, reasonable and informed discourse on AGP. There are ,however, a lot of ignorant, disrespectful and weaponized rants on YT that serve only to stir anger and fear. One particularly grubby little man comes to mind! If AGP were to be dealt with as Blanchard intended, as a more accurate diagnostic tool and a GENUINE form of transsexuality, it may be better accepted by a wounded, distrustful and misunderstood Trans community? My advice to any young Trans people is to find a positive role model who can inspire you to courage and a positive self image rather than the shame and disgrace that was more prevalent in the past.
edit: I'm tempted to delete this comment as lately I've been reflecting on where the line is in all this discussion when it comes to cruelty and losing compassion. I know some women will say it shouldn't be asked of us continually to put the feelings & emotional well-being of men first, but I don't know if I was totally misjudging putting these thoughts here under this type of interview? I think the discussion in the replies was worth having. I just do worry if me expressing my darker thoughts & emotions on this subject was appropriate here. These are the more extreme end of my thoughts, and at another time I would temper my response more. I don't know. [Warning in advance, this is a visceral reaction, it’s my extreme response, I’m just having trouble digesting all this] I’m trying to be open minded. I don’t know, there is something about AGP as the more I find out about it, the more it makes my skin crawl. I don’t know if that’s unreasonable of me? I think it’s in the context of the world women are forced to live in - where we’re constantly having to be on guard for the dangers men pose & the sexual element to their violence towards us. It makes my skin crawl to hear of the AGP’s relationship with the “female character” he’s created for himself being likened to a marriage, with all the love and support of a marriage? Then on the topic of relationships: I think when these men are straight, this expectation that they could even be with a female partner, the expectation on her that she’d be ok with it? That’s asking too much. You chose the fetish - you forfeit the relationship with the (real) woman in your life. The whole “blackface” parallel is incendiary, but it’s like a white person having this sex fixation on black people, getting surgeries on themselves to mimic black facial features etc., changing skin pigment, impersonating their style of speech - and then expecting there will be a black person who is cool with that and likes it & will happily be in a relationship with a white person such as that who has created this “alter” self who is black that gets them off. Pretty much the plot of the incredible horror movie ‘Get Out’ - a movie where the more I think about the parallels with trans women, the more it blows me away. It’s not enough the oppressor group dominate you - they have to TAKE your very self, your body, your “eye” (way of seeing life) in the case of the main character. And worst of all, in the analogy I’m making of the white person who impersonates - it’s not enough it’s their private thrill. They demand to be recognised as black by society, by black people! indeed make actual black people call themselves “cis black” to accommodate the “trans black” white person?? & it’s the “trans black” person (a white person) who is MORE oppressed and whose voice most needs centering in black spaces?? The power imbalance of males wanting to EMBODY the woman, to make a second self for themselves (based entirely on stereotypes) and put it on like a costume - it really makes me sick. I don’t know how to get past that feeling, and it only gets stronger the more I see trans women trying to force their way into women’s spaces & language in all these other arenas. And I find the raising of the issue of children here (again) really skeeves me out. It just seems an obvious manoeuvre to glom onto the “born this way” theory from LGB. Clear incentive to make it seem innate, and ditto his view that therapy would do nothing to ameliorate the extreme of this fetish. I’m very glad these interviews are being done, and I’m sorry for having such an extreme reaction.
No it's not unreasonable of you. I feel exactly the same way as you do. The sexual motivation to want to invade women's spaces and be a female is very disturbing. Wanting for us to take part in this sexual arousal by referring to AGPs as she/woman/her, is extremely disturbing. I won't be part of it.
I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that as a gut reaction. But you're definitely projecting a lot onto this guy's experience and not being very empathetic and also clearly bringing a lot of your own personal fear into the mix. Like what has this guy done to deserve this level of disgust from you? These issues that he has are his to deal with and haven't affected you or anyone else. So I don't think your visceral reaction is wrong but I would also say that you're trying to act like it's a "rational" response, which is absurd. The impression that I got after reading your comment was similar to when other straight guys will say something like "I just think that gay men are disgusting and it grosses me out when I see them kiss or when I see them being all feminine. It's just disgusting and viscerally uncomfortable because a man should be....ect". I understand having that "gut" reaction to something like auto gynophelia because it really is quite strange and abnormal. But it's really just that. This guy never posed a threat to you, you're just being judgmental because of your disgusted reaction. I don't think you're like an awful person. I would just challenge that perhaps you're rationalizing a prejudice based on your personal fear and not an actual good reason.
Serious question: do you review the professional histories of these "pioneers" before you feature them and implicitly endorse them as experts? The credulity here is concerning.
We do not "endorse" any of our guests, but rather seek to have conversations with people who have been an integral part of the history of this issue. As therapists, we don't often respond with our opinions in the moment, we ask questions and listen. We would love for you to check out Episode 69 where we dive into an analysis of this conversation. We know there were some shocking assertions made, so please check out the other episode for more of our thoughts on this conversation with Anne Lawrence. Thanks!
@@widerlenspod Thank you for the clarification. I look forward to E69. Since 2012, I've been working (in total) with an LCSW and a psychiatric MD attached to a major psychiatric hospital (U.S.) as well as a certified trauma therapist in understanding the misdiagnosis and gender-affirmative treatment of an adult family member (the results of which have been devastating). I realize these clinicians'/researchers' biographies and CVs may be new to you, but for many of us, fortunately or unfortunately, they are not.
@@andrea-mj9ce 1:05:46 . Very disturbing. There are other comments in this video about Anne’s sexual misconduct as a medical professional. Very unfortunate because she’s so right about a lot of AGP stuff.
Can someone give a timestamp for the talk of 14 year olds self-castrating? Edit- timestamp is 1:05:46 I think this goes a little beyond “heretical” The thing is, there are Discord servers where older AGPs are instructing boys on how to do this. Recommend the interview Gender Dysphoria Alliance did with Laura Reynolds where they discuss this. there are some really sinister bad actors in those servers coaching boys on how to do these things because these men get a thrill from it. 😞 Obviously not including Anne in that, but certainly there are men encouraging this for their own “kink” in those servers. & Forgive my ignorance - but isn’t the effect of castrating yourself going to impact such a person in ways taking T could never undo…
Have you seen Hacsi Horvath or Walt Heyer speak? There’s a guy named Daniel, who has a small channel on UA-cam, who is in the process of getting a phalloplasty, after undergoing SRS years ago. All of these men are taking testosterone in place of natural production. However, they were all well past puberty when they had their balls removed, and that definitely makes a difference. The longer you’ve had natural testosterone flowing through your body, the harder it is to overcome the effects of it, and the easier it is to go back to presenting as a man, if that makes sense. So I’m sure an 18 year old who is castrated would have a much harder time returning to presenting as a man, if he doesn’t off himself first, than someone who wasn’t castrated until age 35-40 would. I am also positive that long term outcomes for a young AGP who undergoes SRS/castration would be so much worse than a 40 year old who has it done. For one thing, it’s quite possible that the younger person doesn’t even have autogynephilia, especially now, because all the get is affirmation as soon as they decide they want to transition. But, due to the nature of AGP, by age 40, the man has had 25ish years to pair bond with his female alter ego, or artifact, so he’s a lot more comfortable giving up his most prized possession for “her”. I actually think the age is probably older, depending on how much of an AGP he is, as I do think there are degrees, like a spectrum. Bruce Jenner is an example of someone who might have really needed to do it, to save himself. But he was around 65, had a bunch of kids, and accomplished a lot as Bruce. I think that when AGPs get SRS, they are symbolically unaliving their male self, and saving their female self. There’s just no way that anyone so young could have such a progressed form of AGP. I do believe this much older group of AGPs(60+) are the only ones who may truly benefit mentally from SRS. Not all of course. But for men under that age, I think it’s always gonna turn out really bad. Maybe an apt comparison is “would my husband cut off his peenis to save my life at 25?” Probably, but he’d have a whole lot more reservations about it than he would at 65. Any doctor who suggests that SRS on a younger man, or any female, is a good idea, isn’t objective, and is very possibly corrupt.
I received this rather shocking idea as him saying a severely AGP boy won't be able to get the affirming treatment required to get the puberty blockers due to the suppression of the AGP diagnosis, so the only viable method to follow is castration. I also received this as Anne, who went to great personal extremes at a time when there was no support available, suggesting this is what she would have done knowing what she knows now. So, to me, the way to solve this issue isn't to suggest to severely AGP boys that they self-castrate (that seems incredibly bad advice), but to argue for the recognition of AGP so that someone like Anne could get the help they need at the time they need it based on a recognised diagnosis of AGP.
Dr. Lawrence claims to have no knowledge of ROGD, which seems disingenuous, and then quotes 'Trans' by Helen Joyce. Joyce spends quite a long time discussing ROGD in the book.
Because it’s new. He never worked with girls who have it. Doctors and researchers don’t like to talk about conditions that they have no experience working with, and therefore, no hard evidence that they exist.
@@greengardener517 it’s not surprising. Why would he be interested in something that doesn’t affect him? I think maybe his psych credentials have been overblown. He got his PhD specifically because of his autogynephilia. He was not originally a psychologist.
@@katieandnick4113 You are a horrible, hateful individual. You literally think Anne should've just suffered for the rest of her life, as long as you get to be comfortable. I'm not one of those "trans activists", I'm skeptical of the whole thing, but you are a shallow minded person with NO sympathy for transsexuals.
While this subject might be awful to hear, and clearly Sasha and Stella were shocked to hear it, the subject of castration is an important one. There are already boys and men identifying as eunuchs and it is a logical next step if we keep going down the affirmation model. We can't logically transition non-binary people and children and not also consider this. It's no less barbaric. Yet another reason why we need to turn back to therapy and away from this kind of experimentation and transhumanism.
Its quite an interesting condition. You have to imagine though how much good are we doing any of these males? Transitioning them yet they cannot even be "out" about their struggle. The whole things sounds like a jail inside a jail. The real AGP people who speak of this stuff are usually picked apart by their own. What will come of a ton of young boys who are pretty much forced into a female body just because of the hormones in their body. You would think by now instead of attempting to put a uterus in a trans woman, they could research hormones more. If they could manufacture a cocktail that did would block these impulses or urges. Jeeze I dont know atleast a damn support group for them. The way this is going for them now I imagine would produce ""suicide rates" alone. Deny the condition exists and have the man lie about this condition that controls his life, instead stating hes been a woman since birth. I would consider myself gender critical but I do not wish anyone to suffer. I am against how things are going about today, this interview even more reinforces that. Anne describes self castration to be considered, that a pretty hard battle to fight. These boys could be our sons who happen to have this, I would not want him to feel trapped nor forced to transition. It is alarming he would not even be able to tell the truth to a therapist without being seen as a perverted teenager.
From the mildness of the disclaimer at the beginning, I thought the problem would be Lawrence's support of pb's and early transition but as the interview continued it turned out to be SO much worse. Your disclaimer was too mild. In fact, I think you should have cut that section and explained to Lawrence that as a podcast sponsored by an org like genspect you were not able to broadcast advocacy for extreme self harm in adolescents, complete with methodology tips (there was a tools list in there!) and the rationale that this was a viable alternative because pb's were difficult to access without medical help! It's important that someone is doing these interviews, and you two are very good at them - all that UPR gets your guests spilling ALL the beans - but it's looking increasingly untenable for this channel to be so closely linked to a parents' support org without continued, severe reputational damage. You can't credibly talk about the harms of the internet while you're putting it out there yourselves. You don't even age restrict these podcasts. It's like you have no concept of boundaries.
Perhaps this should be age restricted. But I think it is important to hear all perspectives, even those we disagree with. The harms of the internet come from echo chambers where no one is questioned or any push back is given.
@@JA-nl9el That's ONE harm of the internet. For children and young people there are a whole heap of additional potential dangers, including material which advocates self harm - in this case extreme self harm with instructions on how to do it. I agree that it's important to hear all perspectives which is why I said 'It's important that someone is doing these interviews' but at the very least this needs age restricting. And I still don't think this was appropriate on a channel whose focus is on parents and adolescents. 'Hearing all perspectives' does not mean we must hear them all on the same channel. Not everything is suitable for children.
😳 OMG , I've just reached the end part of the interview !! maybe explains why Anne Lawrence doesn't get a lot of air time ! One does wonder if a life of hormones and self deception have pushed him over the edge into complete insanity !
@@LiamPorterFilms Hi, a little while since I listened to the episode so forgive me if I have remembered it wrongly , but as I recall towards the end of the discussion Ann Lawrence was advocating for the castration of children . That definitely sounds very insane to me.
Some of us care about people and their unique situation. Because we have what is called empathy. And we want to love and care for our human brothers and sisters. Jerk
He didn't do it , he just projects a fantasy history of himself onto people who are adolescents now. A lot of fetishist men who " transition" later in life ( after families etc ) then project an imaginary notion of their childhood self onto children they want to be defined as trans. Arguably that propensity by original members was part of how the Harry Benjamin Society was weaponised ( for other purposes ) to construct the conceptual type ( caste ) of " transchild " ( complete with claims of certain characteristics that require ending certain human rights protections for children).
It's called preferred pronouns for a reason - these are the pronouns I prefer someone to use, but you are under no obligation to use them (unless you live in Canada and pronouns are coerced speech)
Is it autogynephilia if one's crossdressing is motivated by trans porn? In other words not being attracted to the idea of dressing like a woman, rather being attracted to the idea of dressing like a man dressing like a woman
Hi, I love that you are exploring this topic :) what about Dr. Debrah Soh? Do you acknowledge the work she has done on AGP? From what I have read about her she seems to have collected significant data on people with AGP or homsexuality and connected it with abnormal brain structure. Seems like this definitely crosses wires with her work. Thanks!
@@pythosdegothos6181 I already listened (if you are referring to this episode). Can you explain what they are wrong about please? You are giving a personal opinion, I have no way of understanding that opinion by listening to other people. Or did you just want to generally moan?
@@robertmarshall2502 My comment was about the comment section. A lot of armchair psychology. Many of the comments that triggered this one have since vanished. Though some concerning AGP are borderline. But also, AGP as far as I can tell is based on flawed research.
@@pythosdegothos6181 Ah yes, the comments have vanished, completely nonsensical given the date you posted and the lack of comments after the date the video was posted. What ideas commented are making it so hard for so many? What in particular is flawed about the research? You seem to be purposefully avoiding committing to a point of view but happy to criticise others. So far I think you're talking out of your arse because you don't like what people say not because what they say is incorrect.
@@sheilaoreilly6826 Bear in mind I fully support your right to free speech, I don't agree with censorship for misgendering. However, I am going to laugh at you when you throw a baby fit because other people don't cater their language to your worldview.
I love that us autogynephilic males are such a fascinating science project for all yall there! I'm trying to live a somewhat normal life of acceptance while still acknowledging concerns of women but i don't think I'm any more abnormal than most people - i dont think AGP defines me. Maybe you didn't know this but autogynephilic males can still love being regular humans doing things like exercise, playing video games, meeting friends, dating (hopefully), start a family (hopefully), catching up with family, cuddling pets, cooking, gardening, drawing, reading and even talking to members of the general public about things like the weather - all without a problem! :))) fascinating! Life is swell here on the agar plate!
Personally I think all of this is the pathologizing of gender non conformity. The problems are not our bodies OR minds, the problem is the strict adherence to gender norms, stereotype, rules and limits. The late 70,s, 80s, and early 90s these were being broken down, for women mostly, but males too were breaking this down, and honestly had blanchard gotten his desired position we may have actually broken even more down.
We don’t find you fascinating, we find you creepy and predatory especially when you intrude into women’s only spaces, institutions, sports, groups, etc, etc, etc. Women need to start standing up and stop accommodating fetishistic men who want to be us but never will.
Yeah I think people forget that at the end of the day we just want to be at peace. Gender transition helped me greatly with that, but it may not be true for everyone
Dress how you want just don't invade women's only spaces and institutions. It's so ironic how the left is anti "patriarchy" and anti "misogyny", yet feel that the gender appropriation of women is acceptable. It's a total joke.
' 'The end of the conversation took an unexpected turn when she described mindset, the intensity and the desperate measures that seem so reasonable when you’re tortured with severe autodynephellia. For the record Anne has not been involved in the field for many years and her reflections do not encompass the ROGD phenomenon. Tella and I feel it's important to listen to ppls exp so we can understand all the manifestations of gd. However we believe in the power of therapeutic intervention and we don’t think a nihilistic approach is helpful to deeply distressed individuals.' Lawrence just advocated for teenage boys to cut off their own testicles and you broadcast that with no age restriction. Children need safeguarding, not a bunch of wet lettuces with no boundaries. Sort yourselves out.
Lawrence didn’t get into the psychology field until after his transition. He was originally an anesthesiologist, and only went into psych because of his personal circumstances. I don’t believe we can rely on autogynephiles, especially those who’ve transitioned, to not only be honest about their experiences on a conscious level, but even to have a firm grasp of what their actual history is. Most autogynephiles either don’t know that’s what they’re experiencing(which is understandable considering the social climate), or they will acknowledge they have it, but insist they were born that way. I do believe trauma is at the root of most paraphilias, and I don’t think it needs to be direct abuse. There is a relatively new form of trauma that nearly 100% of adolescent boys experience, and a high percentage of pre adolescent boys as well. So even boys who come from a relatively stable home are not safe now, because of the extremely high prevalence of indirect seggsual abuse that boys go through. Couple that with the fact that, when they are being exposed/abused, that abuse is coupled with a huge release of dopamine. It’s really not that different from a boy watching, in person, a young woman, many of whom often look like 14 year olds, being essentially r*ped, on a daily basis, and ejackulating while he’s watching it. Only, instead of one person, it’s many people, within a short period of time, and they’re different every day. I’m quite disgusted with myself that I did not realize what a, and I’m not being hyperbolic, humanity ending impact internet p0rn0graphy is having, just two years ago. I do believe that most women, and older men, have absolutely no idea what internet p0rn0graphy is like. Anne, who probably experienced trauma as a young child, and quite likely got into p0rn(I mean watching it) before it came online, still cannot grasp what internet p0rn0graphy does to the brain of a developing boy. For one thing, what is online is sooo much worse than anything that existed when he was a teenager. He was pubescent during the 60’s. Instead of insisting AGP is innate, and trying to figure out the best options to treat a 15 year old boy who wants to amputate his balls, maybe we should be looking deeper, for the real root cause, and take steps to preventing boys from getting to a place where they think kastration is a good idea? But, even Stella and Sasha don’t talk about the root causes, like CSA, child on child SA, and how internet p0rn0graphy has caused a gigantic spike in the incidence of it. Have they ever done an episode on p0rn0graphy? I don’t believe they have.
@@katieandnick4113 The Angus Fox interview kind of touched on it but it wasn't fully explored (young boys getting into anime and lesbian p orn) They should have Sheila Jeffreys on, she'd blast this whole thing wide open. ua-cam.com/video/oZ_zfMwk_RQ/v-deo.html
@@katieandnick4113 Sigh ... I'm disappointed to see you repeating the same old canard that paraphilias are 'caused by trauma'. Looking for the real root cause? C'mon, sexologists have been looking for the real root cause of paraphilias for over a hundred years! Maybe Stella and Sasha don't talk about the 'real root causes' you list (CSA, porn, etc.) because neither they nor the experts they talk to think those things are the causes? If you want to blame porn, you first have to explain why paraphilias, including AGP's various forms, were prevalent and well-known long before porn went mainstream and easily accessible. (That includes fetishes for trees, moss, hair, balloons, and/or the stuff you find in the toilet, among other things.) What the researchers have consistently found (to my knowledge) is that paraphilias are a mostly male phenomenon, and they tend to be fixed early in life and unchangeable. Just like homosexuality tends to be fixed early in life and unchangeable. They're virtually impossible to budge with treatment, just as it's virtually impossible to turn a gay guy straight, or a straight guy gay. There's this weird idea currently prevalent in gender-critical circles that "We mustn't let them claim it's innate, because then we'll be forced to accept it and put up with it." But that doesn't follow. A thing can be innate and yet lead to *behaviour* that's prohibited because it's harmful. P-philia is pretty clearly innate, but it's also clearly harmful if acted upon, so society has consistently told P-phile advocacy groups to piss off. (Except for a brief moment of madness during the sexual revolution.) Clinical psychopaths are probably born that way, or at least predisposed to it, but we don't let them go around murdering randos in bars who looked at them funny. Regarding AGP itself, the most common expression is erotic cross-dressing (transvestic fetishism). Zucker and Langstrom's 2005 paper 'Transvestic fetishism in the general population: prevalence and correlates' didn't find any correlation between erotic cross-dressing and childhood victimisation. To be fair, they did find a correlation with being separated from parents at an early age, which arguably qualifies as emotional trauma ... but I suspect that's not what most people are thinking of. Granted, that's only one study. Research so far is limited (arguably because certain activists really don't like it when people take AGP seriously) but I hear there's some interesting stuff coming down the pipeline. There's only one other form of trauma I've heard of that appears to be correlated with one particular paraphilia (P-philia). It's a very direct and blunt kind of trauma: a brain injury in early childhood, e.g. from being dropped accidentally. Whether this is associated with other paraphilias as well, I'm not sure. I'd be the first to agree that having paraphilias probably means there's something wrong or glitchy in your brain. (I believe there's some correlation with being left-handed, which is another sign that something's a bit disorganised or cross-wired.) The opinion of one sexologist I've spoken to is that *specific* paraphilias probably aren't inborn. Obviously no one is born with a fetish for high heels, since those are a recent invention. But they do think that the *predisposition* to develop paraphilias is innate. In other words, you may be born with a glitchy, error-prone brain that tends to latch onto the wrong things as erotic. That may be why people often have more than one paraphilia. (See Blanchard's concept of the 'erotic target location error'.) If that's so, then I would expect that some form of AGP has been present in most times and places throughout history. High heels might not exist in every culture, but women do. BTW, I do think internet porn has become a big problem, mainly due to smartphones. But purely in terms of its effects on males, I see it less as an 'abuse' problem and more of a 'junk food' problem. It's like eating McDonald's or KFC--it might taste good but it's not real food and it will make you sick in the libido if you eat it every day.
@@SchrodingersTransCat I’ve lost a lot of trust in the few seggsologists that I have been listening to for a while. I’d be curious to know the prevalence of childhood abuse among females compared to non HS males, and compare it to the prevalence of BPD/C-PTSD in females compared to paraphilias in non HS males. Because I think those are the two most prevalent ways in which trauma manifests in females and males, respectively. Of course, females can be subjected to abuse that doesn’t lead to a personality disorder(rare), and males can be subjected to abuse that doesn’t lead to a paraphilia(far less rare). Males also manifest abuse in other ways, like PTSD, narcissism, rarely BPD. There is only evidence that homoseggsuality in males is a born this way thing. And there’s evidence for what causes it(uterine hormonal environment). What then, could explain a boy being born an AGP or born a pedoughfile? We’ve certainly seen a huge increase in autogynephilia and pedoughfilia(though nobody wants to talk about that) since the advent of internet p0rn0graphy, which is absolutely a type of seggsual abuse when people under a certain age are exposed to it, and id argue, even adult men can suffer in all sorts of ways from watching it, aside from the destruction of their self esteem, romantic relationships, general productivity, etc. Blanchard, in one interview, says that nobody can become an AGP without being born with a propensity to develop it. And I think that may be true in a way, that some boys are born with a lower threshold for escaping that long term effects of trauma/abuse, but I don’t think it’s specific to AGP, or pedoughfilia, or any other paraphilia. But then, in another interview, he talks about how the rate of HSTS is staying about the same, while the rate of AGP is going up. It used to be split about 35/65, and now it’s more like 20/80, and the HSTS group hasn’t budged much. Trauma can happen so early in childhood, and even infancy, that people don’t remember it, but it still impacts us tremendously. And what will have a profound impact on one person may not effect another person much at all. What I’m most concerned about are the kids whose parents aren’t directly abusing them(because those people aren’t going to change anyway), but rather the parents who think they’re doing their best, but are allowing a whole lot of stuff to get in and hurt their kids. The parents who genuinely believe that p0rn0graphy is not harmful to kids(I swear, they are out there, and they use that opinion to virtue signal what open minded, seggs positive people they are), the parents who acknowledge it’s harmful, but wouldn’t even consider that their sweet 11 year old son is watching stepsister r*pe p0rn in his bedroom at night on his ipad, the mothers who trust their new boyfriends to be alone with their children, the parents who allow their pubescent and adolescent sons, who are heavily influenced by p0rn0graphy and haven’t developed the impulse control that grows with them during puberty and adolescence, to be alone with their younger children, especially their girls, and more. The parents who want to be good parents, but don’t know how, or are too busy to stop for a minute and consider what’s happening with their kids. So much of the abuse that small children are experiencing now is happening at the hands of older children. I was just thinking about the fact that, of all of the girlfriends I had during my childhood, and both of the long term relationships I’ve had with men, I am the only one who didn’t come from a highly stressful home environment. I’m the only one who had pretty normal parents. And I don’t think that’s indicative of the types of people I’m drawn to, or who are drawn to me. I just think it shows how incredibly rare it is for kids to grow up in really stable, safe environments. And, there was no internet p0rn0graphy when I was a kid. All of the female friends I had, who had older brothers, stopped being touched by their brothers by the time their brothers were 13ish. Older brothers “experimenting” with and on their younger sisters has ALWAYS been a thing. Even my friend whose brother turned out to be gay did it. But now, with the early exposure to internet p0rn0graphy, especially certain types(like insest), the increase in developmental disorders, and the literal brain damage that results from early, frequent exposure to not only internet p0rn, but the internet at all, the prevalence, severity, and length of time that abuse lasts, has absolutely skyrocketed. You know, there absolutely is a proven connection between CSA and masochism, and there is undoubtedly a connection between masochism and AGP. Psychologists have always known that girls who experience CSA often develop masochism. Why would we think it would be so much different for boys?
Is there any reason why women cannot or are not considered to experience AGP? IMHO men experience (i experience) AGP as a sympathetic emotion in harmony with the sacred feminine…
@@katieandnick4113 I don't use female pronouns for any male unless my job depends on it. HSTS may not pose the same risk to women and children as AGP but they are still men. Womanhood is not some sort of reward for relatively harmless feminine men. We need clear language.
@@katieandnick4113I respect that you don’t consider or refer to HSTS as women. I understand where you and many females are coming from. I don’t think AGP or HSTS “deserve” to womanhood, it’s something we try to integrate into with grace. I just hope wish we could all still respect each other.
So bothersome to listen to non-science based peopole talk about behavioural biology with their essentially spiritual framework so dominant. Relatively recently, brain research at Karolinska Institute and Stockholm University (papers came out in 2021, first authors are 'Khorashad' for one and 'Wang' on the others) show that transsexual patients have a different brain anatomy compared to cis patients. Lower gyrification index in post-centralis gyrus. You cannot change the macrolevel brain architecture through talking nicely and holding their hand. It's like trying to talk someone out of their gayness, or dyslexia, or ADHD. There is no medical therapy that can reliably normalise these brains, although the abnormal function (note, not the architecture) that is linked to patient suffering is reduced following hormone therapy. Now, it's of course possible that the AGP transsexual brain doesn't have these abnormalities quite to the same degree, which does give some slight hope of some part of that patient population maybe having a better life-long utility from not transitioning socially or medically, but managing the desire and the self-loathing. But it'd be deeply unethical to place patients in the placebo control group in a study regarding this.
Karolinska institute found that heterosexual, and so presumably autogynephilic, gender dysphoric males have differences in neural structure from heterosexual males without gender dysphoria. So yes, it presumably cannot be cured.
@@dakotamadeleinel.1973 I have found no literature whatsoever reporting successful 'curing' of any natal male patient with transsexualism, whether the sexual attraction is towards males or females. Now, misdiagnosed transsexualism should not be confused with that situation. A patient that is misdiagnosed and then subsequently comes to change their mind never had the transsexualism atypicality (or disorder) to begin with. Since writing my original comment I read Lawrence's Men Trapped in Men's Bodies, which I cannot recommend highly enough. I did this to overcome my emotional reaction to the verbal expressions some transwomen make regarding women on the whole, or themselves as women -- without accepting them as they are, and finding a genuine sympathy for the individual and the patient population, I could not have taken them on as my own patients. I truly feel bad for them now. Regardless of the exact etiology, the patients cannot be cured, so it doesn't make that big of a difference in the treatment pathway. But if there's childhood trauma or a personality disorder, then addressing those in therapy before going too far down the transition pathway seems like a decent enough way to minimise harm from mistreatment following a misdiagnosis? We wouldn't want a patient to master their deep trauma from childhood and realise they don't really need to transition only to get re-traumatised from hastily given hormones or surgery, right?
I'm an AGP transsexual and I transitioned hormonally and socially at 19 and I think it was exactly the right time for me. I'm in a great romantic relationship with a wonderful woman, I'm more at peace with my body now than I've been my whole life, I pass well as a woman, and my career is on track.
I thought about transitioning as early as 13 years old but the prospect both terrified and excited me. I didn't want to masculinize but I also heard detransition stories that terrified me, and I thought I'd never be allowed to transition due to my autogynephilic feelings. I personally think it is a bad idea to offer castration to an adolescent though. It's a horrifying decision to make at such a young age. I suppose GNRH agonists are better than the alternative of self castration, but I think great caution is needed here.
Anne's book helped me greatly to understand and accept myself as I am and to pursue a meaningful life. I'm glad I've transitioned and laid my cards on the table before marriage and kids like i would have if i was born in the 50s or 60s. I feel I can pursue my life honestly now, without such a big skeleton in the closet to hide. But gender transition is a very serious endeavor.
You make things uncomfortable for women because you are a male
Yikes! He mentioned how important the aspect of developing a romantic relationship is with the female artifact, and that takes a long time. So how then, can he think kastration at 13-15 is a good idea. Once their balls are gone, so will be the relationship they had just started to build with the artifact. He’s not being consistent. And it’s easy for him to say what he thinks he would have done, and to think he would have lived a better life? He got to middle age, and was able to reach so many goals/aspirations that are actually innate to het men(marriage, children, career), before sacrificing it all for the female partner he created within himself.
Yeah his narrative is very confusing. No consistency at all
He’s a deeply disordered man, a pervert and a likely predator. I don’t think he has many cohesive ideas. His whole life has been in service of a fetish. Of course he’s sad. The only way to help these people, ironically, is to completely refuse to accept this behavior early on…when they’re teenagers told their behavior is wrong they can still have a chance to get help for their fetish and course correct their life.
You can’t have a relationship with an “artifact” or object…only with a being. Fantasies inside your head aren’t beings. So the only relationship they have is with themselves: pathological narcissism. I also think it’s hilarious that people can’t guess that he has a castration fetish. His obviously faux-concern for young boys in encouraging them to harm themselves doesn’t fool me in the slightest. He’s a predator through and through, as his sexual misconduct firing also suggests. 🤢🤮
Self-aware males with autogynephilia seem so rare. As others have said, acknowledging it would shatter the fantasy. What’s the difference between those who can handle the truth and even find relief from knowing themselves more truly versus the majority who can’t or won’t? Is it autism?
That's a good question. I wish autism were covered in this interview.
Autistic people are not exceptionally self aware, though I do have trouble understanding how a boy/man with autism can develop autogynephilia. It actually would seem that boys with autism may be more likely to develop a cross seggs identity, not due to autogynephilia. It seems they would be inclined to feel like they aren’t men, or don’t want to be men, rather than actively wanting to be women. Especially due to how they process p0rn0graphy in such a different way than neurotypical people. I can see how autogynephilia would happen more in boys/men with ADHD though. That makes sense. Also keep in mind that autism is certainty overdiagnosed now, and often misdiagnosed, especially among females. Many people who think they have ASD and even ADHD, do not have it. I don’t know if it’s because of practitioners’ lack of understanding/knowledge about cluster B personality disorders(more likely), or their reluctance to diagnose them, because of stigma, but most of the people walking around who just got a diagnosis of either ASD or ADHD in adulthood, probably have a personality disorder and not ASD or ADHD. Particularly if they are under a certain age, as public schools have been on top of autism for quite a long time now. I have one kid with ASD and one with ADHD. There’s just no way that someone can get through their entire school career and not have it picked up by their parents and teachers that something is off. But personality disorders, especially BPD, doesn’t typically start to even show symptoms until mid to late teens, often older. Even Stella and Sasha won’t talk about, or don’t understand, that most of the girls with ROGD whose parents they work with have a personality disorder. That’s how stigmatized it is, and it stigmatizes family more than even the patient.
@@katieandnick4113 fascinating, what you are saying makes complete sense to me. Absolutely, asd is over diagnosed. I have seen several detransitioners mention being diagnosed with bpd. There are many males with autogynephila who are outspoken online about trans rights who seem to having raging NPD (eg Rachel McKinnon types) - if someone where to tell them they are autistic, they’d probably revel in it and add it to the list about why they are the most marginalized woman ever. I associate bpd more with females and npd more with males, but I’m not sure if that association is completely correct. I don’t know as much about NPD. I can’t tell if the TW with raging NPD lack self awareness or if they are aware but manipulative.
@@katieandnick4113 I do know one male who I believe has asp and agp. I don’t know him well, so I could be misinterpreting, but the way I can make sense of the situation is this - his father was abusive and he related more to females growing up, even though all of his interests are male typical. I see the autogynephila developing as part of him not wanting to be like his father and also not wanting to objectify women. He’s in his forties, does not pass at all even though he’s had ffs, and is very emotionally stunted and lacks self awareness. Has an ok job in computer science related field but is very lonely, longs for a lesbian relationship. He posts online about getting misgendered all the time and just says it’s part of the casual transphobia he faces every day. I think he conceptualizases himself as a tomboy, but in his very large male frame it just reads as a man with long hair. I feel like having an awareness of autogynephilia would have been more helpful to him than to go on thinking his whole life that he’s a woman trapped in a large man’s body. He doesn’t strike me as having npd, though he is very self centered and clueless. I find it ironic that he never wanted to be like his father, but in his own confused way, is still “harming” (maybe too strong a word) some women by taking up space that does not belong to him (he’s held positions in feminist organizations; feminism is something he considers a part of him). Maybe I am miss reading the situation, but this is how I have made sense of it.
It's worth keeping in mind that influential activists have denied that AGP is real for at least twenty years now. Accurate information simply isn't given out to most gender-questioning youth. Instead they're told that their feelings mean they're 'really women inside'. Have a look at the blogs of activists Jack Molay and Julia Serano for examples.
I have AGP, but I didn't even hear of the concept until a couple of years ago, in my mid-thirties (thanks to accidentally stumbling into r/GenderCritical after midnight, haha). And I thought I knew a decent amount about sexuality research.
It's not clear whether it's a majority or a minority who can't handle the truth ... because the ones who can't handle the truth have shouted down and bullied the others into keeping quiet.
Ann Lawrence, formerly Mark Lawrence, was forced to resign from his previous job as an anesthesiologist due to a filed complaint by medical personnel who witnessed what they felt was misconduct by Lawrence towards a female patient: Lawrence questioned repeatedly whether an Ethiopian patient had signs of genital mutilation. The gynecologist said no multiple times. After the gynecologist left the room, Lawrence put on a glove and performed a vulva exam without the patient’s or gynecologist’s consent on the anesthetized patient. In order to not go through the formal investigation, which would, in his words, cause unwanted media attention, Lawrence resigned. There are other allegations of misconduct from Lawrence by multiple trans women that Lawrence made inappropriate comments of a sexual nature when photographing their genitals for his website page on genital surgery. There was also concern that although Lawrence has worked as a sex therapist, he never received training for counseling or psychotherapy, and has professed an erotic interest in surgical genital modification.
Edit: I’ll add that Lawrence touched the genitals of the unconscious patient during his presence in the operating room as the attending anesthesiologist. I mention this to draw attention to magnitude of the inappropriateness of an anesthesiologist (with gloves on or not) examining or touching the patient at all other than in their role of anesthetizing the patient for surgery or checking vitals (still usually done by monitoring medical devices), let alone examining or touching the patient’s genitals, to the point where anesthesiologists are usually not even “scrubbed” ie sterilized bc it is assumed they will not be touching the patient bc that’s not a part of their job.
is there an account of this i read somewhere?
@@nastja33 I think there’s a blog post about it by a trans woman? But if you Google the keywords (Ann Lawrence + anesthesiologist + resignation + sexual misconduct + allegations) you can find the facsimiles of the university hospital paperwork outlining the allegations, the details of the occurrence, a report on the intended investigation, and then Lawrence’s resignation.
It all sounds a bit hearsay... If you write such allegations at least quote the source. And isn't it a bit suspicious a trans woman wrote about it,given all the negative feedback Lawrence received by many fellow transitioners?
@@ivanlondon I mean there are legal documents outlining the whole thing from the university hospital he used to work at. It’s not like the documents are forged or something. He even admits he did it, but that he didn’t mean anything inappropriate (?!) by it. I agree the comments from the trans women are unprovable, but there are multiple allegations.
So all you are doing here is reinforcing concerns around fetishistic transvestism. Perhaps this trans identifying male is just one of many ?
Re Children , the early studies of young boys assumed pre-transexual showed that psychotherapy didn't even need to work (re gender identity/ dysphoria). Because in both the treatment and the control groups , desistance was the outcome for almost all participants. The assumption that gender- something is children's real problem ( rather than merely the presenting problem, or something that is falsely framed as a problem ) is part of what has fuelled the contagion first among therapists/ clinicians , then among parents ( as important re the early childhood " wrong body " phenomenon as a different kind of contagion is among adolescents and young adults). We need to recognise that the normalisation of transition laundered medical abuse of young children , and susceptible parents framing of children in that way is in part iatrogenic, and that failure of ordinary desistance is not only iatrogenic ( which is also propped up by a cult like cultural narrative ), but further than that , many therapy practices are designed to " cure " ( prevent ) desistance.
None of this negates the fact that compassionate , ethical , and reality grounded counselling / therapy is needed urgently to help provide support and to cut children free from the horrific drift-net into fish finger factory that is conducted under the pretext of " identifying trans children early ". ..
But that can't be achieved without undoing the assumption that gender- focussed therapy will provide the answers.
We need grounded , ethical , and developmentally literate psychologists , therapists and counsellors to have training in reprogramming families and children from the gender spell , rather than a whole new generation of therapists exclusively focussed on gender . There is definately a place for an association ( or better more than one , and definately without a dangerous peak body structure ) to train people , from therapists to teachers , to GPs ) pediatricians to respond in ways that avoid sending children to the funnel to gender framed self - estrangement and sterilization. And it would be great for there to be lists of therapists ( NOT under a single accreditation process ) who are comfortable in dealing with gender as the presenting problem , and in ways that respond to expectations of parents and others indoctrinated in the current gender response meme. But where children and parents arrive needs to be not centrally focused on gender , or at least the practitioners need to understand normal development , and to be comfortable in conducting " differential diagnosis" ( not necessarily in the sense of ending at a diagnosis, there are many useful approaches that aren't clinical. ) .
These points are about early childhood/ prepubescent children currently framed as having gender trouble or having bodies that will be " wrong " if allowed to mature. And it is very young children who were and are the primary target of WPATH since their relaunch , and the target of the interests that back WPATH and who have backed the propaganda and legal battles to change laws and remove protections against sterilizing interventions and pathways enacted for social reasons.
And as this conversation shows , the prototypical early Benjamin Society acolytes are very much attached to and motivated by the "trans child" mythology
I have known a lot of mtf /ftm trans people , not just AGP this applies to HSTS also.Anne is right when he says post op trans mtf end up lonely. Pre op partners are available but usually strange people, but once they get rid of their bits , no one is interested…….it’s sad
@@MysticalPotatoHeadGrooveThing He ...
People have realized that Blanchard's theories are full of garbage.
@@MysticalPotatoHeadGrooveThing There have been countless of studies that have proven that gender and sex are 2 different things and this dude clearly knows nothing about gender dysphoria. Studies have proven his theories wrong for example the one where he thinks that straight trans women are confused gay men and that the other half are perverts. Studies have proven countless of times that that is not really the case but yet he is still clinging on to them and I am surprised that this dude was in charge of the gender clinic in Toronto. He stopped working there in 2009.
@@Simpy553which ppl ? TRAs ? You’re not a sexology expert. Ann is and knows he’s a man and knows the word for his condition : heterosexual trans identified males. You’re not even trans but a sad loud troon 🤡
@@MysticalPotatoHeadGrooveThing why did you even watch this video ?
We should distinguish between metaphors and reality. Nobody can be in a wrong body, nobody can be trapped in a body. The mind is not something that exists outside of bodily reality - it is produced and maintained by the body. This book and the entire concept of transition are based on metaphysical beliefs and false premises.
no, you are wrong. First of all, with a name such as "Stunning and Brave" you are ridiculing a debilitating and crippling condition like gender dysphoria. Our brain is wired a certain way. Certain individuals are born with eyes of different colors (heterochromia), so, why is it that far-fetched to imagine that some individuals are born with a brain that is not sexed in a congruent manner with their biological sex? This has nothing to do with soul, mind, spirit and all that metaphysical rubbish. Gender dysphoria is a neurobiological condition that is innate and not induced. There is no solution. This is what I do not get. Transphobes like yourself, what do you suggest? What alternative does one have? I am much, much, much happier now that I am fully transitioned, but I am not AGP. I am very angry I was not allowed to transition earlier. I am attracted exclusively to males. I do not care about my chromosomes. All I cared was living the gender role as a woman and being able to attract males as a woman. Whether I am XX or XY, is totally irrelevant to me.
@@tarcisiasiniscalchi6641 Can you explain what your reasoning is for believing that gender dysphoria is an innate biological/genetic condition? If we look at brain cells we aren't going to see different DNA there to the rest of the body surely. I thought the whole brain in a different body was debunked long ago.
I also don't think that idea fits the available research, current trends in diagnosis and the variation we see in different societies throughout history. How do you explain this variation?
You are also suggesting there is no solution but clearly most gender dysphoric kids grow out of it via puberty. We can also see that the majority of trans ppl don't fully transition and in those who have they unfortunately seem to have worse outcomes for life expectancy. The trans ppl who seem to do well have gone through a therapeutic process where they come to terms with never actually being able to be the other sex. Why do you wish you transitioned earlier? When you say you weren't allowed was that due to age?
I'm new to this series having only recently seen a link to this episode. I followed the link specifically because I've long admired Dr Lawrence since I read her book (discussed in the video). The issues here are discussed so clearly, sensitively and indeed courageously, with great honesty. But I have to say I was deeply shocked by Dr L's recommendation concerning young males with severe AGP. This wasn't followed through by the interviewers, although the initial spontaneous reaction of one of them, together with that silence, suggests that they might share that sense of shock -- and profound disagreement? Of course I don't know. The names of Dr John Money and the tragic David Reimer came to mind. Dr Lawrence has more right than very many others to have her views on AGP heard with deep respect, but in this case I think, sadly, that's she's simply wrong. Otherwise, a great discussion from which I learned much (although I already know a great deal about the subject, objectively and subjectively). Thank you.
Stella & Sasha made an interesting point in introducing their new season, which will be on video rather than just audio - that it will be good for listeners to see their reactions, since their approach is more often to listen and not to push back & they seem to realize that it would be good for people to see how they react to some things.
@@Poecilia1963IMO they should be more rational and critical of whom they "listen to" in terms of clinical expertise (audio-only or not). It could easily be misconstrued as endorsement.
I love the diversity of guests you guys have.
I’ve read Anne Lawrence book from cover to cover as I was with an AGP man at a time! What’s important to mention is that Autogenophelia is not limited to sexual attraction but also romantic love and attachment. Basically these men are in love with the woman they have created in their head and deeply attached to this made up self woman! IMO is a mental condition and alternative treatments should start being considered as well!
I agree with you, but AGPs are markedly different from androphilic transsexuals
AGP widowhood is tragic, but what is wrong with a man loving his feminine side?
IMHO both AGP and AAP are both steps to higher consciousness and the self awareness of the soul.
I appreciate this series of interviews so much as they are helping me think deeply about the various degrees of pain we all share as we seek to discover solutions which are balanced, thoughtful, just, and above all, do no harm.
The title of Anne Lawrence’s book, Men Trapped in Men’s Bodies, is such a powerful statement of the torment experienced by one living with AGP, and it also recognizes that even after transition, one is still male.
I think that the comment written by one viewer expressing her distress with what is happening to women as males come to claim our private spaces, could possibly be calmed, as it would be for me, if we could just agree that males and females are distinct categories we cannot choose, which deserve a right to privacy and protection.
The NCAA swimming championship was held this weekend and we were forced to watch a male who “feels” like a female, take the place of a woman. I was fourteen when Title Nine passed, and here we are once again fighting to have a place of our own.
As a society we need to create a way to value all of our members without dismissing females in the way Anne mentioned early in the interview, and as we have seen throughout history.
If AGP is a sexual orientation, then let’s recognize it as such, but it should not follow that these males are now women. As I grow older I have learned that we just don’t always get what we want. So many of us share the struggle of integrating our life experiences into a healthy adult self. Will we develop resentment or humility?
I am against the current wave of "trans activism", but I also don't think younger transsexuals like me or older transsexuals like Anne should have to give up our own happiness just so bio women can feel more comfortable. When we pass and blend and have surgery we cause little problem. I don't want big burly hairy untransitioned men in the bathroom with me either.
@@dakotamadeleinel.1973 we are not talking comfort here.
Intimacy, security and equity are not details don’t you think ?
@@Souxie123 I think there are better solutions than to say people can't transition at all.
@@dakotamadeleinel.1973 of course some people can go through transition but not erase women, talk on behalf of them or remove their rights. Otherwise, this is basic mysoginy.
@@Souxie123 I agree.
At about @31:00, I think we all may become more androgynous with aging, because our sex drive diminishes.
I was listening with interest until the very end, where I reacted with horror when Dr Lawrence said she would have castrated herself at puberty had she known of a way to do it safely. That sounds insanely frightening. I DON’T WANT kids to learn how to do this.
Why are kastration and analogues mentioned for pubescent, supposedly AGP boys, but not spironolactone? I mean, I don’t think any of it’s a good idea, but also, when it comes to preventing masculinization, by the time a boy really understands how he feels, or how he thinks he feels(these are 14 year old, terminally online children we’re talking about), why would kastration work, but not analogues? Anything that fully blocks puberty, and everything that goes with it, shouldn’t be considered, even by doctors who do believe it’s ever beneficial to transition a child. At least with spironolactone, it’s not permanent, and it probably doesn’t cause the full destruction of the endocrine system the way analogues do. Lawrence did make a good point about the internet changing everything, and I don’t believe that he can compare his experiences to those of boys today. I also don’t believe that he got aroused by the idea of wearing a dress when he was prepubescent. In the absence of trauma, prepubescent, gynocentric males rarely even think about girls in a non friend way. Little girls and androcentric boys do get crushes, but they’re not seggsual until puberty starts. Lawrence admitted that most people are reluctant to face regrets about transition when what they’ve done is permanent(like SRS or kastration). He didn’t transition until he was in his 40’s, and probably wouldn’t acknowledge regrets if he had them. Can you imagine kastrating a young male, and what degree of regret he would have? I think it would be insurmountable for most. Jazz Jennings’ friend, Noelle, had SRS at around 19-20, and he has disappeared completely from public life. He doesn’t even seem to have social media. He may not even be alive anymore. Surgeries should be reserved for autogynephilic men over the age of 50, IMO. Unfortunately for their families, they are probably likely to have the best outcome, psychologically, if they’ve been married and had children. I wish we could stop buying into the “born this way” narrative, and get down to what actually causes this in males. Gender critics have been able to, for the most part, conclude that nobody is born in the wrong body. Why, then, have we bought into the narrative than AGP is innate? Seggsual depravity is absolutely a broad category that males seem to lean towards, but what is the cause? I would guess trauma, physical abuse, seggsual abuse, neglect. Gay males do seem to be born with a higher propensity towards cross seggs ideation, and even for those of that group who transition, it seems SRS is a bad idea.
My impression is that Lawrence suggested castration because PBs are difficult to access without medical help. The same would be true of spironolactone. Lawrence appears to have a strong DIY ethos - he began his transition by taking some sort of industrial oestrogen that he sourced himself. The whole picture here is extremely disturbing, especially from someone who worked as a medical doctor.
@@Gerry_Davies agreed. I didn’t know a lot about him before this interview, but I did have the idea that he was somehow different than other men with a similar profile. I was wrong. This actually causes me to have even more respect, I guess, for Debbie Hayton, as he is very vocally opposed to childhood transition. But, damn, the self awareness is so incredibly lacking in transitioned AGPs. My biggest problem with the “born this way” narrative is that it works to make people feel like it’s not necessary to even try and figure out what causes the condition. That’s a big problem.
@@katieandnick4113 *My biggest problem with the “born this way” narrative is that it works to make people feel like it’s not necessary to even try and figure out what causes the condition. That’s a big problem.*
Is *"born this way"* a problem to homosexual people too ? Do I need to find a cause of my same-sex attraction before I embrace it ?
@@khanhminhnguyen7274 Katie is saying the 'born this way' narrative is being used by trans activists to prevent therapist from examining why someone might feel distress over their natal sex. People can developed gender dysphoria from sexual abuse, homophobia(internalized or external), AGP, or not fitting in with same-sex peers.
@@scooter-wy3qs Sure. I myself do not like gender ideology; nevertheless, I need to be fair to people who suffer gender dysphoria , especially ones with Blanchard's typology.
I were born homosexual. So could gender dysphoric people. Science is less ambiguous about same-sex attraction than gender identity, but that does not mean gender dysphoria is not biological.
Amazing to hear him promoting castration. Wonder if he has anything to do with Eunuch being a gender identity in the new DSM .Has he got anything to do w W Path that you are aware of?
His obsessions and ideology are very representative of the inner controlling membership of the Harry Benjamin Society (now given the WPATH name , and posing as a professional body since 2010/11) . Very telling how he so openly dived into the creep claims about early childhood sexuality. ... His use of the interview to market of self- butchery for children likely made very " pleased ".
Interesting. I admire the bravery of the three of you
I dont refer to men as she or her. No matter the social pressure.
It started with a desire and curiosity in wearing a girl's ballet outfit. Well if you remove the "girl's" from that, it was just a little boy that had a desire to wear an outfit he found attractive. Why is there this jump that a boy with such desires must automatically be trans, or be dealing with gender dysphoria? From my own experience the only that had me questioning if I really was a boy were all the things I was told boys didn't do, or like or wear. Perhaps all of this is a result of social rules limits and stereotypes. Girls can have interest of desires of things associated to boys, they don't get these accusations or diagnoses. It just seems like people are pathologizing gender non conformity in kids and yes, adults. Why has this not seemingly to be considered? I have just always preferred looks and styles associated with girls, but if you look at history males wore clothing that cause someone like matt walsh to run for the hills!
Right, it sounds like-at least potentially-a lot could be avoided if boys were allowed to have pretty/fun outfits... instead, they're told that this normal desire is abnormal, creating shame. When young children are shamed for their desires, psychosexual and social development is at risk of becoming warped! We are meaning-making creatures, and the logic of children will run wild when given the task of "what is wrong with me" or "why do I want wrong things."
I notice that Lawrence is highly intelligent and that many trans identified people seem to have... busy brains. It seems to me-and I'm definitely stacking up assumptions at this point-that giving an intelligent, busy-brained child such problems is even MORE dangerous when it comes to seeding delusions that will persist throughout life..
@@irradiated_woman8016 Thank you for this response. I wish more would see this. I am thinking much of the trans issue we face today is a direct result of the shaming of "feminine" boys, that otherwise are pretty much your average boy...oh, and very VERY likely NOT gay either (another assumption that needs to die out when it comes to Gender non conforming boys. I really would like Genspec to tackle this issue.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Yes some of the anti gender-bending backlash is really troubling to us as well.
I agree that general gender non-conformity should not be forced or punished or pushed away, but you seem to fail to grasp something related to AGP.
If the AGP hypothesis is to be believed, AGP boys do not like particular garment because it's that particular garment. They like it because it's associated with being female. If all women wore pants and all men wore dresses, the AGP would want to wear pants. It is because the clothing is gendered that it is desirable to the AGP. To remove the "girl" as you say would have removed any desire to wear that particular garment.
If something else was culturally female coded, it would be that thing, so I think you're point that tutu dress isn't inherently feminine doesn't stand. Not that I'm that convinced that helping AGP males have body modifications is a productive social policy (I'm having a hard time thinking there is an easy answer to what to do with such a strange and to be real, utterly pointless and paradoxical predicament)
It is refreshing to listen to a studied, reasonable and informed discourse on AGP. There are ,however, a lot of ignorant, disrespectful and weaponized rants on YT that serve only to stir anger and fear. One particularly grubby little man comes to mind! If AGP were to be dealt with as Blanchard intended, as a more accurate diagnostic tool and a GENUINE form of transsexuality, it may be better accepted by a wounded, distrustful and misunderstood Trans community? My advice to any young Trans people is to find a positive role model who can inspire you to courage and a positive self image rather than the shame and disgrace that was more prevalent in the past.
edit: I'm tempted to delete this comment as lately I've been reflecting on where the line is in all this discussion when it comes to cruelty and losing compassion. I know some women will say it shouldn't be asked of us continually to put the feelings & emotional well-being of men first, but I don't know if I was totally misjudging putting these thoughts here under this type of interview? I think the discussion in the replies was worth having. I just do worry if me expressing my darker thoughts & emotions on this subject was appropriate here. These are the more extreme end of my thoughts, and at another time I would temper my response more. I don't know.
[Warning in advance, this is a visceral reaction, it’s my extreme response, I’m just having trouble digesting all this]
I’m trying to be open minded. I don’t know, there is something about AGP as the more I find out about it, the more it makes my skin crawl. I don’t know if that’s unreasonable of me? I think it’s in the context of the world women are forced to live in - where we’re constantly having to be on guard for the dangers men pose & the sexual element to their violence towards us.
It makes my skin crawl to hear of the AGP’s relationship with the “female character” he’s created for himself being likened to a marriage, with all the love and support of a marriage?
Then on the topic of relationships: I think when these men are straight, this expectation that they could even be with a female partner, the expectation on her that she’d be ok with it? That’s asking too much. You chose the fetish - you forfeit the relationship with the (real) woman in your life.
The whole “blackface” parallel is incendiary, but it’s like a white person having this sex fixation on black people, getting surgeries on themselves to mimic black facial features etc., changing skin pigment, impersonating their style of speech - and then expecting there will be a black person who is cool with that and likes it & will happily be in a relationship with a white person such as that who has created this “alter” self who is black that gets them off. Pretty much the plot of the incredible horror movie ‘Get Out’ - a movie where the more I think about the parallels with trans women, the more it blows me away. It’s not enough the oppressor group dominate you - they have to TAKE your very self, your body, your “eye” (way of seeing life) in the case of the main character.
And worst of all, in the analogy I’m making of the white person who impersonates - it’s not enough it’s their private thrill. They demand to be recognised as black by society, by black people! indeed make actual black people call themselves “cis black” to accommodate the “trans black” white person?? & it’s the “trans black” person (a white person) who is MORE oppressed and whose voice most needs centering in black spaces??
The power imbalance of males wanting to EMBODY the woman, to make a second self for themselves (based entirely on stereotypes) and put it on like a costume - it really makes me sick. I don’t know how to get past that feeling, and it only gets stronger the more I see trans women trying to force their way into women’s spaces & language in all these other arenas.
And I find the raising of the issue of children here (again) really skeeves me out. It just seems an obvious manoeuvre to glom onto the “born this way” theory from LGB. Clear incentive to make it seem innate, and ditto his view that therapy would do nothing to ameliorate the extreme of this fetish.
I’m very glad these interviews are being done, and I’m sorry for having such an extreme reaction.
It''s a scary world you live in lol
@@czukarpathian6621 For women & kids having to share this world with men - yes, it is scary.
No it's not unreasonable of you. I feel exactly the same way as you do. The sexual motivation to want to invade women's spaces and be a female is very disturbing. Wanting for us to take part in this sexual arousal by referring to AGPs as she/woman/her, is extremely disturbing. I won't be part of it.
The analogy to race is perfect. His reference to a boy toddler having an erection when put in girl clothes the first few minutes made my skin crawl.
I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that as a gut reaction. But you're definitely projecting a lot onto this guy's experience and not being very empathetic and also clearly bringing a lot of your own personal fear into the mix. Like what has this guy done to deserve this level of disgust from you? These issues that he has are his to deal with and haven't affected you or anyone else. So I don't think your visceral reaction is wrong but I would also say that you're trying to act like it's a "rational" response, which is absurd. The impression that I got after reading your comment was similar to when other straight guys will say something like "I just think that gay men are disgusting and it grosses me out when I see them kiss or when I see them being all feminine. It's just disgusting and viscerally uncomfortable because a man should be....ect". I understand having that "gut" reaction to something like auto gynophelia because it really is quite strange and abnormal. But it's really just that. This guy never posed a threat to you, you're just being judgmental because of your disgusted reaction. I don't think you're like an awful person. I would just challenge that perhaps you're rationalizing a prejudice based on your personal fear and not an actual good reason.
Sounds like he’s lying when he says he doesn’t know of Lisa’s ROGD paper.
The Hippocratic oath is no longer important, is it?
Serious question: do you review the professional histories of these "pioneers" before you feature them and implicitly endorse them as experts? The credulity here is concerning.
We do not "endorse" any of our guests, but rather seek to have conversations with people who have been an integral part of the history of this issue. As therapists, we don't often respond with our opinions in the moment, we ask questions and listen. We would love for you to check out Episode 69 where we dive into an analysis of this conversation. We know there were some shocking assertions made, so please check out the other episode for more of our thoughts on this conversation with Anne Lawrence. Thanks!
@@widerlenspod Thank you for the clarification. I look forward to E69. Since 2012, I've been working (in total) with an LCSW and a psychiatric MD attached to a major psychiatric hospital (U.S.) as well as a certified trauma therapist in understanding the misdiagnosis and gender-affirmative treatment of an adult family member (the results of which have been devastating). I realize these clinicians'/researchers' biographies and CVs may be new to you, but for many of us, fortunately or unfortunately, they are not.
Anne’s and Blanchards perspective and experience with AGP and HSTS is important but that bit about literal castration... absolutely not.
Timestamp please?
@@andrea-mj9ce 1:05:46 . Very disturbing. There are other comments in this video about Anne’s sexual misconduct as a medical professional. Very unfortunate because she’s so right about a lot of AGP stuff.
He doesn't condone castration, he just says he would have castrated himself
What about the trans widows who say they are sadic ? What can we think about it since it takes so much place in our society ???
Out of curiosity, is this computer art from Dr. Lawrence online anywhere?
Not sure - does anyone else know?
Can someone give a timestamp for the talk of 14 year olds self-castrating?
Edit- timestamp is 1:05:46
I think this goes a little beyond “heretical”
The thing is, there are Discord servers where older AGPs are instructing boys on how to do this.
Recommend the interview Gender Dysphoria Alliance did with Laura Reynolds where they discuss this. there are some really sinister bad actors in those servers coaching boys on how to do these things because these men get a thrill from it. 😞 Obviously not including Anne in that, but certainly there are men encouraging this for their own “kink” in those servers.
& Forgive my ignorance - but isn’t the effect of castrating yourself going to impact such a person in ways taking T could never undo…
Have you seen Hacsi Horvath or Walt Heyer speak? There’s a guy named Daniel, who has a small channel on UA-cam, who is in the process of getting a phalloplasty, after undergoing SRS years ago. All of these men are taking testosterone in place of natural production. However, they were all well past puberty when they had their balls removed, and that definitely makes a difference. The longer you’ve had natural testosterone flowing through your body, the harder it is to overcome the effects of it, and the easier it is to go back to presenting as a man, if that makes sense. So I’m sure an 18 year old who is castrated would have a much harder time returning to presenting as a man, if he doesn’t off himself first, than someone who wasn’t castrated until age 35-40 would. I am also positive that long term outcomes for a young AGP who undergoes SRS/castration would be so much worse than a 40 year old who has it done. For one thing, it’s quite possible that the younger person doesn’t even have autogynephilia, especially now, because all the get is affirmation as soon as they decide they want to transition. But, due to the nature of AGP, by age 40, the man has had 25ish years to pair bond with his female alter ego, or artifact, so he’s a lot more comfortable giving up his most prized possession for “her”. I actually think the age is probably older, depending on how much of an AGP he is, as I do think there are degrees, like a spectrum. Bruce Jenner is an example of someone who might have really needed to do it, to save himself. But he was around 65, had a bunch of kids, and accomplished a lot as Bruce. I think that when AGPs get SRS, they are symbolically unaliving their male self, and saving their female self. There’s just no way that anyone so young could have such a progressed form of AGP. I do believe this much older group of AGPs(60+) are the only ones who may truly benefit mentally from SRS. Not all of course. But for men under that age, I think it’s always gonna turn out really bad. Maybe an apt comparison is “would my husband cut off his peenis to save my life at 25?” Probably, but he’d have a whole lot more reservations about it than he would at 65. Any doctor who suggests that SRS on a younger man, or any female, is a good idea, isn’t objective, and is very possibly corrupt.
I received this rather shocking idea as him saying a severely AGP boy won't be able to get the affirming treatment required to get the puberty blockers due to the suppression of the AGP diagnosis, so the only viable method to follow is castration. I also received this as Anne, who went to great personal extremes at a time when there was no support available, suggesting this is what she would have done knowing what she knows now. So, to me, the way to solve this issue isn't to suggest to severely AGP boys that they self-castrate (that seems incredibly bad advice), but to argue for the recognition of AGP so that someone like Anne could get the help they need at the time they need it based on a recognised diagnosis of AGP.
Dr. Lawrence claims to have no knowledge of ROGD, which seems disingenuous, and then quotes 'Trans' by Helen Joyce. Joyce spends quite a long time discussing ROGD in the book.
Because it’s new. He never worked with girls who have it. Doctors and researchers don’t like to talk about conditions that they have no experience working with, and therefore, no hard evidence that they exist.
@@katieandnick4113 Lawrence didn't say Lawrence 'didn't want to talk about it', Lawrence said Lawrence had literally never heard of it.
@@greengardener517 it’s not surprising. Why would he be interested in something that doesn’t affect him? I think maybe his psych credentials have been overblown. He got his PhD specifically because of his autogynephilia. He was not originally a psychologist.
@@katieandnick4113 You are a horrible, hateful individual. You literally think Anne should've just suffered for the rest of her life, as long as you get to be comfortable.
I'm not one of those "trans activists", I'm skeptical of the whole thing, but you are a shallow minded person with NO sympathy for transsexuals.
While this subject might be awful to hear, and clearly Sasha and Stella were shocked to hear it, the subject of castration is an important one.
There are already boys and men identifying as eunuchs and it is a logical next step if we keep going down the affirmation model. We can't logically transition non-binary people and children and not also consider this. It's no less barbaric.
Yet another reason why we need to turn back to therapy and away from this kind of experimentation and transhumanism.
Gender questioning means confused. Adults are free to be adults but promoting this nonsensical worldview on children is criminal.
not true, I wish I had transitioned earlier and I am very very angry about that
He does not explain his situation enough !
Its quite an interesting condition. You have to imagine though how much good are we doing any of these males? Transitioning them yet they cannot even be "out" about their struggle. The whole things sounds like a jail inside a jail. The real AGP people who speak of this stuff are usually picked apart by their own. What will come of a ton of young boys who are pretty much forced into a female body just because of the hormones in their body. You would think by now instead of attempting to put a uterus in a trans woman, they could research hormones more. If they could manufacture a cocktail that did would block these impulses or urges. Jeeze I dont know atleast a damn support group for them. The way this is going for them now I imagine would produce ""suicide rates" alone. Deny the condition exists and have the man lie about this condition that controls his life, instead stating hes been a woman since birth.
I would consider myself gender critical but I do not wish anyone to suffer. I am against how things are going about today, this interview even more reinforces that. Anne describes self castration to be considered, that a pretty hard battle to fight. These boys could be our sons who happen to have this, I would not want him to feel trapped nor forced to transition. It is alarming he would not even be able to tell the truth to a therapist without being seen as a perverted teenager.
From the mildness of the disclaimer at the beginning, I thought the problem would be Lawrence's support of pb's and early transition but as the interview continued it turned out to be SO much worse. Your disclaimer was too mild. In fact, I think you should have cut that section and explained to Lawrence that as a podcast sponsored by an org like genspect you were not able to broadcast advocacy for extreme self harm in adolescents, complete with methodology tips (there was a tools list in there!) and the rationale that this was a viable alternative because pb's were difficult to access without medical help!
It's important that someone is doing these interviews, and you two are very good at them - all that UPR gets your guests spilling ALL the beans - but it's looking increasingly untenable for this channel to be so closely linked to a parents' support org without continued, severe reputational damage.
You can't credibly talk about the harms of the internet while you're putting it out there yourselves. You don't even age restrict these podcasts. It's like you have no concept of boundaries.
Perhaps this should be age restricted. But I think it is important to hear all perspectives, even those we disagree with. The harms of the internet come from echo chambers where no one is questioned or any push back is given.
Plus they said in another comment that they push back on it in ep. 69.
@@JA-nl9el That's ONE harm of the internet. For children and young people there are a whole heap of additional potential dangers, including material which advocates self harm - in this case extreme self harm with instructions on how to do it. I agree that it's important to hear all perspectives which is why I said 'It's important that someone is doing these interviews' but at the very least this needs age restricting. And I still don't think this was appropriate on a channel whose focus is on parents and adolescents. 'Hearing all perspectives' does not mean we must hear them all on the same channel. Not everything is suitable for children.
@@JA-nl9el Too late by then.
😳 OMG , I've just reached the end part of the interview !! maybe explains why Anne Lawrence doesn't get a lot of air time ! One does wonder if a life of hormones and self deception have pushed him over the edge into complete insanity !
What are you referring to with "the end part"? I didn't hear anything which sounded like mental illness.
@@LiamPorterFilms Hi, a little while since I listened to the episode so forgive me if I have remembered it wrongly , but as I recall towards the end of the discussion Ann Lawrence was advocating for the castration of children . That definitely sounds very insane to me.
Some of us care about people and their unique situation. Because we have what is called empathy. And we want to love and care for our human brothers and sisters. Jerk
Wow, self mutilation at the age of 14.
He can't go around advocating for self-mutilation or even surgical castration for 14-year-olds with dysphoria - that is madness!
He didn't do it , he just projects a fantasy history of himself onto people who are adolescents now. A lot of fetishist men who " transition" later in life ( after families etc ) then project an imaginary notion of their childhood self onto children they want to be defined as trans. Arguably that propensity by original members was part of how the Harry Benjamin Society was weaponised ( for other purposes ) to construct the conceptual type ( caste ) of " transchild " ( complete with claims of certain characteristics that require ending certain human rights protections for children).
This person is a man…the willingness to use “preferred pronouns” makes all the other good info seem less credible…
It's called preferred pronouns for a reason - these are the pronouns I prefer someone to use, but you are under no obligation to use them (unless you live in Canada and pronouns are coerced speech)
Is it autogynephilia if one's crossdressing is motivated by trans porn? In other words not being attracted to the idea of dressing like a woman, rather being attracted to the idea of dressing like a man dressing like a woman
Transvestite !
Hi, I love that you are exploring this topic :) what about Dr. Debrah Soh? Do you acknowledge the work she has done on AGP?
From what I have read about her she seems to have collected significant data on people with AGP or homsexuality and connected it with abnormal brain structure.
Seems like this definitely crosses wires with her work. Thanks!
A lot of the comments here come off as the natterings of arm chair psychiatrists. Your sort are what make life so hard for many.
What exactly do they have wrong?
@@robertmarshall2502 Listen to the pod cast, then ask this question.
@@pythosdegothos6181 I already listened (if you are referring to this episode). Can you explain what they are wrong about please? You are giving a personal opinion, I have no way of understanding that opinion by listening to other people. Or did you just want to generally moan?
@@robertmarshall2502 My comment was about the comment section. A lot of armchair psychology. Many of the comments that triggered this one have since vanished. Though some concerning AGP are borderline. But also, AGP as far as I can tell is based on flawed research.
@@pythosdegothos6181 Ah yes, the comments have vanished, completely nonsensical given the date you posted and the lack of comments after the date the video was posted.
What ideas commented are making it so hard for so many?
What in particular is flawed about the research?
You seem to be purposefully avoiding committing to a point of view but happy to criticise others. So far I think you're talking out of your arse because you don't like what people say not because what they say is incorrect.
He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He.
His. His. His. His. His. His. His. Use accurate language. Don't confuse people. That is gaslighting. Name reality. Be #proreality
It seems like the existence of trans people deeply offends and triggers you. I hope you move on someday.
@@sheilaoreilly6826 Bear in mind I fully support your right to free speech, I don't agree with censorship for misgendering. However, I am going to laugh at you when you throw a baby fit because other people don't cater their language to your worldview.
@@sheilaoreilly6826 you have a serious problem with all this don't you? I've seen that you have commented on a few of these videos
@@dakotamadeleinel.1973 biological reality isn't a "worldview". That's literally the point.
I love that us autogynephilic males are such a fascinating science project for all yall there! I'm trying to live a somewhat normal life of acceptance while still acknowledging concerns of women but i don't think I'm any more abnormal than most people - i dont think AGP defines me. Maybe you didn't know this but autogynephilic males can still love being regular humans doing things like exercise, playing video games, meeting friends, dating (hopefully), start a family (hopefully), catching up with family, cuddling pets, cooking, gardening, drawing, reading and even talking to members of the general public about things like the weather - all without a problem! :))) fascinating! Life is swell here on the agar plate!
Personally I think all of this is the pathologizing of gender non conformity. The problems are not our bodies OR minds, the problem is the strict adherence to gender norms, stereotype, rules and limits. The late 70,s, 80s, and early 90s these were being broken down, for women mostly, but males too were breaking this down, and honestly had blanchard gotten his desired position we may have actually broken even more down.
What stinks is it is always seemingly focussed on men, almost never women. I guess its cause guys have more visible signs of arousal.
We don’t find you fascinating, we find you creepy and predatory especially when you intrude into women’s only spaces, institutions, sports, groups, etc, etc, etc. Women need to start standing up
and stop accommodating fetishistic men who want to be us but never will.
Yeah I think people forget that at the end of the day we just want to be at peace. Gender transition helped me greatly with that, but it may not be true for everyone
Dress how you want just don't invade women's only spaces and institutions. It's so ironic how the left is anti "patriarchy" and anti "misogyny", yet feel that the gender appropriation of women is acceptable. It's a total joke.
'
'The end of the conversation took an unexpected turn when she described mindset, the intensity and the desperate measures that seem so reasonable when you’re tortured with severe autodynephellia. For the record Anne has not been involved in the field for many years and her reflections do not encompass the ROGD phenomenon. Tella and I feel it's important to listen to ppls exp so we can understand all the manifestations of gd. However we believe in the power of therapeutic intervention and we don’t think a nihilistic approach is helpful to deeply distressed individuals.'
Lawrence just advocated for teenage boys to cut off their own testicles and you broadcast that with no age restriction. Children need safeguarding, not a bunch of wet lettuces with no boundaries. Sort yourselves out.
Lawrence didn’t get into the psychology field until after his transition. He was originally an anesthesiologist, and only went into psych because of his personal circumstances. I don’t believe we can rely on autogynephiles, especially those who’ve transitioned, to not only be honest about their experiences on a conscious level, but even to have a firm grasp of what their actual history is. Most autogynephiles either don’t know that’s what they’re experiencing(which is understandable considering the social climate), or they will acknowledge they have it, but insist they were born that way. I do believe trauma is at the root of most paraphilias, and I don’t think it needs to be direct abuse. There is a relatively new form of trauma that nearly 100% of adolescent boys experience, and a high percentage of pre adolescent boys as well. So even boys who come from a relatively stable home are not safe now, because of the extremely high prevalence of indirect seggsual abuse that boys go through. Couple that with the fact that, when they are being exposed/abused, that abuse is coupled with a huge release of dopamine. It’s really not that different from a boy watching, in person, a young woman, many of whom often look like 14 year olds, being essentially r*ped, on a daily basis, and ejackulating while he’s watching it. Only, instead of one person, it’s many people, within a short period of time, and they’re different every day. I’m quite disgusted with myself that I did not realize what a, and I’m not being hyperbolic, humanity ending impact internet p0rn0graphy is having, just two years ago. I do believe that most women, and older men, have absolutely no idea what internet p0rn0graphy is like. Anne, who probably experienced trauma as a young child, and quite likely got into p0rn(I mean watching it) before it came online, still cannot grasp what internet p0rn0graphy does to the brain of a developing boy. For one thing, what is online is sooo much worse than anything that existed when he was a teenager. He was pubescent during the 60’s. Instead of insisting AGP is innate, and trying to figure out the best options to treat a 15 year old boy who wants to amputate his balls, maybe we should be looking deeper, for the real root cause, and take steps to preventing boys from getting to a place where they think kastration is a good idea? But, even Stella and Sasha don’t talk about the root causes, like CSA, child on child SA, and how internet p0rn0graphy has caused a gigantic spike in the incidence of it. Have they ever done an episode on p0rn0graphy? I don’t believe they have.
@@katieandnick4113 The Angus Fox interview kind of touched on it but it wasn't fully explored (young boys getting into anime and lesbian p orn) They should have Sheila Jeffreys on, she'd blast this whole thing wide open.
ua-cam.com/video/oZ_zfMwk_RQ/v-deo.html
@@katieandnick4113 Sigh ... I'm disappointed to see you repeating the same old canard that paraphilias are 'caused by trauma'.
Looking for the real root cause? C'mon, sexologists have been looking for the real root cause of paraphilias for over a hundred years! Maybe Stella and Sasha don't talk about the 'real root causes' you list (CSA, porn, etc.) because neither they nor the experts they talk to think those things are the causes?
If you want to blame porn, you first have to explain why paraphilias, including AGP's various forms, were prevalent and well-known long before porn went mainstream and easily accessible. (That includes fetishes for trees, moss, hair, balloons, and/or the stuff you find in the toilet, among other things.)
What the researchers have consistently found (to my knowledge) is that paraphilias are a mostly male phenomenon, and they tend to be fixed early in life and unchangeable. Just like homosexuality tends to be fixed early in life and unchangeable. They're virtually impossible to budge with treatment, just as it's virtually impossible to turn a gay guy straight, or a straight guy gay.
There's this weird idea currently prevalent in gender-critical circles that "We mustn't let them claim it's innate, because then we'll be forced to accept it and put up with it." But that doesn't follow. A thing can be innate and yet lead to *behaviour* that's prohibited because it's harmful. P-philia is pretty clearly innate, but it's also clearly harmful if acted upon, so society has consistently told P-phile advocacy groups to piss off. (Except for a brief moment of madness during the sexual revolution.) Clinical psychopaths are probably born that way, or at least predisposed to it, but we don't let them go around murdering randos in bars who looked at them funny.
Regarding AGP itself, the most common expression is erotic cross-dressing (transvestic fetishism). Zucker and Langstrom's 2005 paper 'Transvestic fetishism in the general population: prevalence and correlates' didn't find any correlation between erotic cross-dressing and childhood victimisation. To be fair, they did find a correlation with being separated from parents at an early age, which arguably qualifies as emotional trauma ... but I suspect that's not what most people are thinking of.
Granted, that's only one study. Research so far is limited (arguably because certain activists really don't like it when people take AGP seriously) but I hear there's some interesting stuff coming down the pipeline.
There's only one other form of trauma I've heard of that appears to be correlated with one particular paraphilia (P-philia). It's a very direct and blunt kind of trauma: a brain injury in early childhood, e.g. from being dropped accidentally. Whether this is associated with other paraphilias as well, I'm not sure.
I'd be the first to agree that having paraphilias probably means there's something wrong or glitchy in your brain. (I believe there's some correlation with being left-handed, which is another sign that something's a bit disorganised or cross-wired.)
The opinion of one sexologist I've spoken to is that *specific* paraphilias probably aren't inborn. Obviously no one is born with a fetish for high heels, since those are a recent invention. But they do think that the *predisposition* to develop paraphilias is innate. In other words, you may be born with a glitchy, error-prone brain that tends to latch onto the wrong things as erotic. That may be why people often have more than one paraphilia. (See Blanchard's concept of the 'erotic target location error'.) If that's so, then I would expect that some form of AGP has been present in most times and places throughout history. High heels might not exist in every culture, but women do.
BTW, I do think internet porn has become a big problem, mainly due to smartphones. But purely in terms of its effects on males, I see it less as an 'abuse' problem and more of a 'junk food' problem. It's like eating McDonald's or KFC--it might taste good but it's not real food and it will make you sick in the libido if you eat it every day.
@@SchrodingersTransCat I’ve lost a lot of trust in the few seggsologists that I have been listening to for a while. I’d be curious to know the prevalence of childhood abuse among females compared to non HS males, and compare it to the prevalence of BPD/C-PTSD in females compared to paraphilias in non HS males. Because I think those are the two most prevalent ways in which trauma manifests in females and males, respectively. Of course, females can be subjected to abuse that doesn’t lead to a personality disorder(rare), and males can be subjected to abuse that doesn’t lead to a paraphilia(far less rare). Males also manifest abuse in other ways, like PTSD, narcissism, rarely BPD. There is only evidence that homoseggsuality in males is a born this way thing. And there’s evidence for what causes it(uterine hormonal environment). What then, could explain a boy being born an AGP or born a pedoughfile? We’ve certainly seen a huge increase in autogynephilia and pedoughfilia(though nobody wants to talk about that) since the advent of internet p0rn0graphy, which is absolutely a type of seggsual abuse when people under a certain age are exposed to it, and id argue, even adult men can suffer in all sorts of ways from watching it, aside from the destruction of their self esteem, romantic relationships, general productivity, etc. Blanchard, in one interview, says that nobody can become an AGP without being born with a propensity to develop it. And I think that may be true in a way, that some boys are born with a lower threshold for escaping that long term effects of trauma/abuse, but I don’t think it’s specific to AGP, or pedoughfilia, or any other paraphilia. But then, in another interview, he talks about how the rate of HSTS is staying about the same, while the rate of AGP is going up. It used to be split about 35/65, and now it’s more like 20/80, and the HSTS group hasn’t budged much. Trauma can happen so early in childhood, and even infancy, that people don’t remember it, but it still impacts us tremendously. And what will have a profound impact on one person may not effect another person much at all. What I’m most concerned about are the kids whose parents aren’t directly abusing them(because those people aren’t going to change anyway), but rather the parents who think they’re doing their best, but are allowing a whole lot of stuff to get in and hurt their kids. The parents who genuinely believe that p0rn0graphy is not harmful to kids(I swear, they are out there, and they use that opinion to virtue signal what open minded, seggs positive people they are), the parents who acknowledge it’s harmful, but wouldn’t even consider that their sweet 11 year old son is watching stepsister r*pe p0rn in his bedroom at night on his ipad, the mothers who trust their new boyfriends to be alone with their children, the parents who allow their pubescent and adolescent sons, who are heavily influenced by p0rn0graphy and haven’t developed the impulse control that grows with them during puberty and adolescence, to be alone with their younger children, especially their girls, and more. The parents who want to be good parents, but don’t know how, or are too busy to stop for a minute and consider what’s happening with their kids. So much of the abuse that small children are experiencing now is happening at the hands of older children. I was just thinking about the fact that, of all of the girlfriends I had during my childhood, and both of the long term relationships I’ve had with men, I am the only one who didn’t come from a highly stressful home environment. I’m the only one who had pretty normal parents. And I don’t think that’s indicative of the types of people I’m drawn to, or who are drawn to me. I just think it shows how incredibly rare it is for kids to grow up in really stable, safe environments. And, there was no internet p0rn0graphy when I was a kid. All of the female friends I had, who had older brothers, stopped being touched by their brothers by the time their brothers were 13ish. Older brothers “experimenting” with and on their younger sisters has ALWAYS been a thing. Even my friend whose brother turned out to be gay did it. But now, with the early exposure to internet p0rn0graphy, especially certain types(like insest), the increase in developmental disorders, and the literal brain damage that results from early, frequent exposure to not only internet p0rn, but the internet at all, the prevalence, severity, and length of time that abuse lasts, has absolutely skyrocketed. You know, there absolutely is a proven connection between CSA and masochism, and there is undoubtedly a connection between masochism and AGP. Psychologists have always known that girls who experience CSA often develop masochism. Why would we think it would be so much different for boys?
@@katieandnick4113 I think increased acceptance of homosexuality plays a role in the agp/hsts ratio Increase.
Is there any reason why women cannot or are not considered to experience AGP? IMHO men experience (i experience) AGP as a sympathetic emotion in harmony with the sacred feminine…
49:40 min
I don’t like the fact that the man was being referred to with female pronouns. Sure be called any name but female pronouns do not belong to an AGP.
Do you use them for HSTS? That’s one area I still struggle with. And I’m referring to males, as I don’t believe HSTS females exist in the same way.
@@katieandnick4113 I don't use female pronouns for any male unless my job depends on it. HSTS may not pose the same risk to women and children as AGP but they are still men. Womanhood is not some sort of reward for relatively harmless feminine men. We need clear language.
@@Gerry_Davies I support your freedom of speech even if I think the hill you're determined to die on is idiotic.
@@katieandnick4113I respect that you don’t consider or refer to HSTS as women. I understand where you and many females are coming from. I don’t think AGP or HSTS “deserve” to womanhood, it’s something we try to integrate into with grace. I just hope wish we could all still respect each other.
So bothersome to listen to non-science based peopole talk about behavioural biology with their essentially spiritual framework so dominant. Relatively recently, brain research at Karolinska Institute and Stockholm University (papers came out in 2021, first authors are 'Khorashad' for one and 'Wang' on the others) show that transsexual patients have a different brain anatomy compared to cis patients. Lower gyrification index in post-centralis gyrus. You cannot change the macrolevel brain architecture through talking nicely and holding their hand. It's like trying to talk someone out of their gayness, or dyslexia, or ADHD. There is no medical therapy that can reliably normalise these brains, although the abnormal function (note, not the architecture) that is linked to patient suffering is reduced following hormone therapy. Now, it's of course possible that the AGP transsexual brain doesn't have these abnormalities quite to the same degree, which does give some slight hope of some part of that patient population maybe having a better life-long utility from not transitioning socially or medically, but managing the desire and the self-loathing. But it'd be deeply unethical to place patients in the placebo control group in a study regarding this.
Karolinska institute found that heterosexual, and so presumably autogynephilic, gender dysphoric males have differences in neural structure from heterosexual males without gender dysphoria. So yes, it presumably cannot be cured.
@@dakotamadeleinel.1973 I have found no literature whatsoever reporting successful 'curing' of any natal male patient with transsexualism, whether the sexual attraction is towards males or females. Now, misdiagnosed transsexualism should not be confused with that situation. A patient that is misdiagnosed and then subsequently comes to change their mind never had the transsexualism atypicality (or disorder) to begin with. Since writing my original comment I read Lawrence's Men Trapped in Men's Bodies, which I cannot recommend highly enough. I did this to overcome my emotional reaction to the verbal expressions some transwomen make regarding women on the whole, or themselves as women -- without accepting them as they are, and finding a genuine sympathy for the individual and the patient population, I could not have taken them on as my own patients. I truly feel bad for them now.
Regardless of the exact etiology, the patients cannot be cured, so it doesn't make that big of a difference in the treatment pathway. But if there's childhood trauma or a personality disorder, then addressing those in therapy before going too far down the transition pathway seems like a decent enough way to minimise harm from mistreatment following a misdiagnosis? We wouldn't want a patient to master their deep trauma from childhood and realise they don't really need to transition only to get re-traumatised from hastily given hormones or surgery, right?
@@viljakainu1548 Fully agree!
Did you get that info from Dr. Soh?
Fascinating info!
A better link to Anne Lawrence's paper (2008 - the given link above doesn't work) is annelawrence.com/shame_&_narcissistic_rage.pdf