If you enjoyed this episode please remember to like and subscribe! Also visit our Substack here www.widerlenspod.com/ and sign up for a Paid Subscription for Bonus Content with Dr. Jillian Spencer and other guests. It is the best way to support this show. Thank you so much! Or you can Join our UA-cam Membership as a "GWL Fan" and access the bonus content with Dr. Spencer right here!
I'm very interested in the topics you cover but I have never watched one of your videos because there is so much chit chat at the beginning I don't know when the actual content starts. It would be helpful if you had "chapters" or before the intro you mention at what point the discussion begins.
@@giseletheriault8633if you're watching on a touch screen, such as a smart phone, you can double tap on the right side to advance 20sec or on the left to rewind. Bear in mind, they intro the topic shortly after greeting each other.
As a child psychiatrist - a medical specialist who is the equivalent of a heart surgeon or an intensive care specialist - Jillian exercised her professional responsibility to lead. The question I have is why did the other 54 child psychiatrists abdicate their responsibilities?
I got choked up every time Jillian got a bit teary .. I so very much relate to the pain of having my intentions misunderstood when I was working with youth. It’s heartbreaking to feel so rejected from a field so much of your passion and energy is derived from. I first saw Jillian on a 60 mins show and was grateful to see her speak publicly with her concerns. Have not seen many from the Southern Hemisphere. I’m in New Zealand and it’s even more isolated than Australia. Is there any one in your organisation from New Zealand?
I admire Dr Jillian Spencer so much. A true health warrior. Morals that run deep & a heart that is huge to drive her incredible courage. She is supported more than she knows! From a fellow Aussie, avid listener, health professional, and a parent, thanks you Dr Jillian Spencer for advocating for Aussie kids & teens.
As an Aussie, we need more of Dr Jillian. I dont want to see us go down this sewer hole that other countries are grappeling with this revolting ideology. Women are being degraded and children abused under a 'we care' . When will this nutty stuff die off ?
Thank you to Jillian Spencer for taking a brave stand to defend children against ideologically driven practices that devastate children's capacity to fully grow and become.
Thank you for being such a ‘lion’, Doctor Jillian. What you’ve done and are still doing takes a lot of courage borne of genuine concern for young Australians. Kindest regards, a fellow Aussie.
My teen attended the Brisbane gender clinic, thankfully during covid restrictions so only via telehealth. They say they are "multidisciplinary" and provide a "team approach" but we only ever spoke to one nurse. When my daughter was going though a mental health crisis we asked if we could talk to one of their psychologists or psychiatrists - they said they didn't have any available and referred us to private psychologists (all who turned out to work part time at the gender clinic). They offered for us to come in and try on binders - with zero risks mentioned of using them. They gave us a handful of journal articles to support affirmation only - all very poor quality articles and no mention of the risks of "gender affirming care". Thankfully our kid slowly came out of this on her own. She's autistic and gay - prime fodder for this cult. Queensland state politicians and Qld Health have ignored my pleas asking them to review the evidence - and to look into the Cass review. Now the Melbourne gender clinic want to allow any general practitioners in the country to prescribe cross sex hormones - when there is zero high quality evidence it's helpful, and much evidence that it's harmful.
😳 cultists are never interested in evidence. That‘s why they have all their „mantras“ to turn back to when they don‘t have answers to ppl with a real interest in evidence based regulation and concerns that this practice was neglected/denied…It‘s horrible for all the kids who are victims of an ideology😢😢😢
I just don't understand how so many people, whose primary responsibility was the care of children, could be so unbelievably blind to something so clearly misguided and dangerous. 50 books, 2 responses! I hope with all my heart that this phenomenon prompts serious research that can provide answers as to why some people see this immediately, yet others not only don't see it, but seem to actively work to shut down dissenters. What makes some people (the majority?) so vulnerable to the proclamations of authority? Every story about the clinicians involved in this leaves me baffled, these are trained professionals, exactly the people that should be LESS vulnerable to nonsense, who should be up on the research, that should know about delusions etc.
I believe that as so much is at risk for them, in terms of their career, reputation, and the energy resource investment they have made gaining status as an “expert” in the field, that avoidance of any dissent is just becomes a survival protection mechanism. Can’t question the collective, because the collective is what supports them. It’s appalling what has happened to Jillian’s career!
Very happy you have Dr Jillian on today. Was actually hoping a couple of days ago that you'd do an episode with her. It's clear from this interview she's a very thoughtful and caring person. She was unfairly portrayed by the ABC Four Corners program earlier in the year where a child's death was used to manipulate the viewers. So very glad to hear her speak in full. Hope you'll have more Australians on in future.
Yes, it was obvious when comparing Dr Spencer on 4 Corners vs 7 Spotlight how deliberately the ABC show edited Dr Spencer and detransitioner Courtney Coulson to make them seem less authoritative, and to leave out half their stories.
big love to Jillian. i bet she's been a wonderful psychiatrist to children and teens going through scary times. I look forward to future government inquiries where the Queensland gender clinic gets exposed for all this
Thank you to Jillian Spencer for speaking out . It is important that GP's, psychiatrists, and anyone who can refer to " gender services " must be dis-abused of the false notion that there is a special expertise that allows diagnosis of children who would inevitably grow up to be trans adults. It's also important that the public must learn that there is no test or diagnostic in childhood that could reliably predict being gender distressed in adulthood , no matter how " expert " the clinician seeing the child is. Most children will desist from gender distress / cross- identity without intervention. The affirmative model , and the timing at which they advocate " blockers " are designed to prevent desistance , a " cure" to prevent the growth and conflict that usually lead to recovery. While it's true that many duplicating that model are unaware of that intention , any who are well read in the original publications of the founders of the " affirmation model " must understand its purpose ( it's very sad that so many do terrible things they wouldn't do if they bothered to read original studies instead of relying on propaganda level summaries).
Fully agree with you on everything you said but the aspect of some professionals being naive - there is no excuse at this point for anyone - professional or public- to be ignorant of the grave harms. It’s a model that is totally in opposition to ANY psychological/psychiatric knowledge/literature/treatment models in terms of symptoms and how to respond. At this point everyone knows that this is wrong- the professionals advocating for this are either afraid of external forces -social/professional punishment or are actively lying to themselves and know they are doing it or they are empowering themselves with a narcissistic need to be a special helper. Whatever it is driving this collusion in delusion - It’s totally disgusting.
Jillian makes a good point about the female-teen typical behaviour of teens girls who trans identify. " Trans boi " subculture is very much a hyper - female-typical teen culture.
@@rachelforshee6014And too much artificial expectations & pressure created by sm/too much consumption of it before they can properly analyze the content and the complexity of the cause of their fears. Puberty is naturally a challenge, a whole new world& internal experiences unknown are coming one‘s way and instead of discussing the real inner struggles, they are replaced by sth easier to grasp, a simple explanation with following steps and procedures they think give them security but will make them more miserable. It‘s very sad, I agree😢
My interest in this topic is to familiarize myself with the topic so I'm prepared to engage with others from a strong, knowledgeable place. Thank you for the excellent guests and stimulating discussions! Keep it up❤
The physiotherapy clinic in st James Hospital Dublin also has a ton of flags, trans terminology etc. It made me very uncomfortable. The new children’s hospital in Dublin also boasts the biggest “Rainbow Garden” in Europe…whatever that means. It’s terrifying.
Just came here to express my love and respect for Stella, Sasha and the courageous Dr Spencer (who I’m proud to call a fellow Australian). 💜 Olivia - Woman / Adult Human Female
I worked as a Psych. nurse in Melbourne but retired mid 2010 before this garbage had really taken hold. I have spoken to several people recently who have recently completed psychology degrees and it was concerning to learn that they are still being taught John Money's ideas but his name is not familiar to them.
When Sasha asked about Dr Spencer's tears and where all the emotion was coming from, I smiled and thought, "ever the therapist." I am such a crier that I have heard those comments and questions with every therapist and probably supervisor I've ever had. I think I could count on 1 hand (without the thumb!) the times I have NOT cried in supervision or any sort of "constructive criticism" meeting! I think I am just sooo shame-based and approval-hungry that I come into any mtg in the "1-down" position. I keep listening to your podcasts even tho I have no personal interactions with gender issues, because I love your (both of you) soothing tone and approach. I'm also learning a lot about current culture. In my late 60's, working retail because mental health was too stressful, yet wanting to engage in some aspect of human services. I got training as an ADHD Coach, but choked on the last quarter when I was supposed to set up a website etc. I understand the importance, and want to be more savvy with digital stuff, but maybe it was the reality of actually working with clients that stopped me. I think I have some trauma outcomes from those supervision sessions... I just really like listening to and learning from you both.
Sydney resident here. The gay community is very strong here. You do not know what to say to people. You can not risk saying the wrong thing tbh. The job market is small it could be financial and career ruining for you if you are percieved to be homaphobic, trans phobic or even just a non ally.
19min, outrageous that a mental health leader was touting Diane Erensaft's meaningless "insistent, consistent, persistent " as diagnostic. Re waiting list , while letting kids know they are on a waiting list can contribute to waiting fixation , given that the clinics are what they are, the longer the waiting list for those type of clinics , the better chance the child has of receiving more trustworthy care in the mean time , or simply desisting . There is no redeeming the clinics and practitioners who have been complicit in affirmative model interventions , so anything creating shorter waiting lists for their access to children is a danger.
Omg!😂 "human" is the problematic word. I busted out laughing at that point of the story. I have the ' Woman Adult Human Female' tshirt. Love it. Love the show❤
I tried to speak to my local MP about this issue and was told I sounded transphobic for using the word 'help' in the context of trans-identified children. Apparently saying they need 'help' implies there is something wrong with them and they need 'fixing'. I tried to explain that I most definitely don't think they need 'fixing', especially not the 'fixing' which involves drugs and surgery.
@@elizabeththrift7697I find this at once immediately relatable and bizarre. How do they claim kids need medical intervention because they are "trans kids" and yet think they don't need help at the very same time? I repeatedly get hit by their cognitive dissonance over and again.
We stopped going to our teen’s pediatrician because they kept referring her back to the gender clinic even she wants nothing to do with the gender clinic. So we started going to walk in clinics for health care in the hopes of just avoiding the referrals. Yes, its 400.00 out of pocket but … The thought was, they would just treat the current issue she would have, like a flu. But last time I was there, the attending doctor walked in with her iPad and guess what flag was on the cover? A giant trans pride flag! So does this mean they will prescribe hormones there? I didn’t ask, I just wanted to get my kid out of there asap. I just pray my kid doesn’t get sick, because I hate taking her to any doctor now! I’ve been reprimanded by medical staff for not using proper pronouns even though our medical insurance has her birth sex and name on it! How else can you care for a child without knowing their sex?! We are leaving the US to escape this madness, to a country that only has two gender clinics, not over 100+.
When my daughter desisted, our doctor knew. One time we had to see a different, younger doctor about a skin thing. When we'd finished discussing that the Dr pipes up "how's the gender stuff going?" even though it had been over a year since our teen had desisted and that was not what we were attending for. Imagine reviewing our chart before we came into the room and picking that as something to bring up when it wasn't even relevant? All roads lead to gender, even if you're running away from it.
@@TSmithQld I’m sorry you had to go through that. Hopefully your daughter was just as annoyed as you. They think hey are so right, these doctors! Where we’re going is slow to adopt, hopefully buying us some time. We’ve spent some time there and it’s just not so much a thing in the region we’re moving too. All surrounding countries have recently halted this madness.
@@NorCalMomAs a British man who will hopefully have a family in the near future but living in Spain I'm really dreading it coming here. They've already made some legal changes for self-id and some schools added non-binary to the list for gender/sex even though it rather laughably has to be written in either masculine or feminine. I'm hoping the fact most of the ideology falls to pieces when you translate it will make a difference. I had a conversation with a "non-binary" male (you know how you can almost always tell) and they were thoroughly confused when I asked why they didn't put their pronouns in Spanish and only had them in English because they thought that was a ridiculous idea. Irony seems to have passed a certain generation by.
Great interview. I don't work in this field, but I have thought it must be like this from other testimonials. I still don't understand how they came to the basic premise that medicalizing a minor in this way (puberty blockers, HRT) could possibly be the right move at this age. The responsible professionals and adults are being pushed out. I've interacted with several anonymous people in UA-cam comment sections, that I think were GD minors (can't confirm), arguing for puberty blockers and HRT for minors. It definitely seems that the young people have been convinced there is no risk, and this is a magic pill to fix everything they are uncomfortable with in life. As if they can switch bodies as easily as someone can select a new avatar in a video game. I seriously miss the 1990's, before the internet and social media. I struggled for so many years, well into adulthood, but when I decided to transition- I knew I had given 110% effort to overcoming my gender issues in every way for years and years. It was not until my late 30's that I started to think about cross-dressing and transition. I was 39 when I first dressed as a woman, and 43 when I started HRT. I understand that everyone is different. And I know that I had some serious setbacks very young (childhood SA, absentee father), and a lifetime of psychological difficulty (anxiety, major depression with PTSD). But I am grateful for who I am now, because of the struggles that I went through, and despite them. I know it is challenging and frustrating, but my position is that there should be an age minimum for medical transition, like 21 or 25, to try to ensure that people have really had the chance to mature physically and to overcome these issues by other means. I think that the long struggle is why I am so confident, and also so relieved by my transition. I'm so glad that no one told me I needed this or that it would fix things, back when I was younger. I think I might have done it, and then might have had serious doubt and regret that I did not give life a chance. Even though transition has gone wonderfully for me, I don't know that I would have been so sure if I hadn't exhausted other means to overcome it, and been able to really reflect and compare my pre- and post-transition mental health with a lifetime of experience to draw on. Thank you for the wonderful interview, as usual! Sorry for the long self-centered post! I got up really early on this Sunday and am drinking my coffee. :) much love to you both. -Jen
Hey Jen, I am always pleased when I spot a comment of yours on here because it is always nuanced and personal. Have you watched any of the Genspect speeches? Any thoughts on the recent controversy?
@robertmarshall2502 hi there! Thank you for writing. How are you? :) are you referring to the attire of "Phil"? That is their name, correct? Pretty sure. Yes, I'm aware. I watched Benjamin Boyce's video. What are your thoughts? I don't mean to make short of it, but just for the sake of time, I think Phil should take the point of the people who have said they feel uncomfortable, and should listen and respect that.
@@jeng3609 Hi yeah I was referencing Phil. I think it's a bit of a shame because the speeches I've heard of so far have been really high quality and thought-provoking and yet overshadowed by a man in a dress. I'm not 100% what my thoughts are yet tbh. I do agree that Phil has a personal responsibility. I'm actually not sure what his reaction has been, I feel like it's probably been good publicity for his book which sounds a bit pseudo scientific. We really need more info on autogynephiles at the same time. For the men as much as anyone else. I also think Stella/Genspect were put in a position where they couldn't really do anything about it. If they'd have kicked him out then the ideologues would have had an absolute field day. Maybe they could have asked him to change? But if he said no then they were powerless and would they be making an issue out of it when they want to play it down. Clearly the photo shouldn't have gone out but also you can't have an event like this and have the leaders spending hours scrutinizing social media posts. I feel very sorry for the woman who took it and I really want to avoid criminalizing ppl who make overwhelmingly positive contributions. Ppl shouldn't have to feel terrible and apologize for easily made mistakes. I feel the same Stella. It feels like the ppl who attacked J K Rowling when she's been a ridiculously force for good in terms of literacy let alone money to women's charities. The subjects it did open me up to considering, which I'd probably neglected, are things like: If/when it is appropriate for an agp male to wear women's clothing (and what constitutes women's clothing, where do you draw the line) Is it possible to live out a paraphilia in public with ppl in attendance in a harmless way? (to which I think the answer is no but at the same time it probably happens to women regularly) Should ppl with paraphilias, e.g. Hayton be allowed to teach children? (my instinct is no but then the knock on effect of making autogynephiles go underground worries me. Logically a male teacher struggling with a paraphilia may well not come out with the information and not just for nefarious reasons but because he wants to be a good teacher, thinks he will control it etc.) Does being fully post-op change how we treat agp males? I don't really know what I think about a lot of that tbh. I'm looking forward to the Wpath files being released although honestly from the Shellenberger speech I felt like it's more making what we already know reach a public audience because I'd already heard of the shocking idea of transitioning someone who is a "system" of different personalities with different genders.
@robertmarshall2502 hi there. I agree that Phil got a good amount of publicity from the dress. Benjamin Boyce does an interview/debate with him about it, where Phil defends it as part of his regular attire. But I get the sense that he is somewhat of a shock-junkie, and enjoys making others a bit uncomfortable. I don't like that at all. Tbh. It seems disingenuous and overall problematic for others of us who want to blend in and don't want to make people feel uncomfortable. I dont think it's possible or appropriate for the organization or the public to police that type of attire, but I think it's up to him, and those close to him, and his counselors or therapists to help him to see what he is doing and how he is making others feel, so that he can police himself. In my opinion, those who fall into this AGP group are the "transvestites" and "cross dressors" of the past, they should not be supported in transition by their doctors or society. I don't think they should be forced underground, I think they should be free to cross dress, and to live their lives, but like I said above- they should take account of how their actions affect other people. I think intent is really important here. Though difficult to suss out, I really don't think Phil's behavior is as innocent or innocuous as he suggests in his interview with Benjamin. The difficulty is that we cannot make assumptions about people's intent and so can't police based on that, but I think that's what friends and therapists should help with.
@@jeng3609 I haven't watched that interview so I guess I should judge after but I can't really think of a non-suss reason for his choice of clothing. At best I'd class it as a publicity stunt. But I can't see a way to take those actions without a certain amount of narcissism and/or disregard for others.
Hi….the link to your website is not working, strangely enough! I was hoping to contact you about an experience I had today. Could you possibly double check the link please. Thank you. Great episode btw!
@Gender: A Wider Lens , a question: is there one of your episodes that describes or considers a possible phenomenon of ‘automutilation by proxy’? As some kind of variant of anorexia, scratching yourself, suicide by pills, etc? So that you say and actually believe you are genderdysphoric and ask for transition but hidden there is the (unconscious) desire to damage yourself?
While we don't have anything exactly as you described, you might want to check out our episode with Victoria Smith where we do touch on some similar themes. It's Episode 105.
Thank you very much! I am very impressed about your podcast. Found out about only 2 weeks ago since the Dutch revolution is also finally happening in the media. Your interviews are very insightful. 👌👌👌
The psychiatric term for what you are describing is "self harm." It is prominently associated with women/girls with eating disorders and borderline personality disorder/complex PTSD.
I think by proxy indicates someone else is inflicting it on the young person, as in Munchausen by proxy, but I could be wrong. The 'auto' part refers to the self. I get what you mean though. It's an important thought. It seems like explorative therapy would help to uncover something like that.
Thank you all. I am Dutch so this is what i thought as the best description and you all caught exactly what I meant :) Indeed self harm in combi with some kind of Munchhausen attention seeking in an unconscious way. Self diagnosing this as a gender identity and through that get the feeling you are unique/special but meanwhile you harm yourself. To be clear: this is not my hard conclusion, but i can imagine this is partly why there is such an explosion of dysphoric teenager/adolescents. My biggest question is: is this well researched when you visit the hospital with your self claimed identity? I get the impression that many organisations too quickly accept the way the patient presents him or herself as truth or something everybody has to respect. I don’t think such a respect is received when you present yourself as an anorexic, because that is visually easier to recognize as unhealthy. With transgenderism the possible problems occur after the self harm (if that is the case of course). I hope I stayed respectful and not offensive. That was not my intention. Just worried. 😢
In the Netherlands the main problem with Gender care is also the waiting list.. (sometimes 2 or 3 years) Everyone is getting way worse while on the list. And the waiting list also works like a one way fish trap. Right now my hypothesis is that every thing you have to wait for makes you more likely to choose the thing you're waiting for? The covid lockdowns seemed to cause a lot of GD, puberty blockers, time to think, were just 'time to wait for what you want', and now the waiting lists are doing the same thing. So what we kinda need is a way to help these kids whlie they are waiting for the gender clinic..
It's called therapy. I don't think anyone should be referred to the gender clinic without first having had 1-hour long weekly therapy for at least a year with a therapist who doesn't focus on gender but who tries to figure out what's really going on (almost always something else). I also don't think anyone should medically transition because it's simply bad medicine. Even worse when done on minors.
There shoudn`t be any "gender" clinics in the first place. Humanity survived without them for millenia without problems. The more we make kids believe in "gender"(whatever that means) the more they become obsessed with it. We should also stop using the language of the gender mob. Transgender, trans child, trans woman, trans man, gender identity, gender expression, gender presentation, cis etc are terms designed to let people believe in this rubbish.
I have a theory about your subscriber numbers. I postulate that vastly more people listen to your podcasts than actually subscribe. People fear that they will suffer retribution by their employers if it is discovered that they are subscribers. I am sure that UA-cam has the metrics to prove my theory. It is a sign of the times we are in. Your approach to this topic is too valuable for me to not support you.
I created an account under a pseudonym in order to study this topic freely. I'm a clinical psychologist who is deeply disturbed by the transgender phenomenon.
The trans movement using intersex as an excuse is insulting to those rare individuals who might actually have a legitimate issue with their gender. Trans people are not intersex. They are mostly males with autogynephillia.
If you enjoyed this episode please remember to like and subscribe! Also visit our Substack here www.widerlenspod.com/ and sign up for a Paid Subscription for Bonus Content with Dr. Jillian Spencer and other guests. It is the best way to support this show. Thank you so much! Or you can Join our UA-cam Membership as a "GWL Fan" and access the bonus content with Dr. Spencer right here!
I'm very interested in the topics you cover but I have never watched one of your videos because there is so much chit chat at the beginning I don't know when the actual content starts. It would be helpful if you had "chapters" or before the intro you mention at what point the discussion begins.
I just joined on youtube to hear the extra video but I can't see it listed. Has it not been uploaded yet?
@@anonanonannayou have to join at the “GWL Fan” level to get the bonus content.
@@giseletheriault8633if you're watching on a touch screen, such as a smart phone, you can double tap on the right side to advance 20sec or on the left to rewind. Bear in mind, they intro the topic shortly after greeting each other.
Now That's a proper doctor! Well done Jillian! 👏
As a child psychiatrist - a medical specialist who is the equivalent of a heart surgeon or an intensive care specialist - Jillian exercised her professional responsibility to lead. The question I have is why did the other 54 child psychiatrists abdicate their responsibilities?
They're afraid of losing their careers, licenses, their income, their homes, etc.
Makes you wonder about the directive to "do no harm" doesn't it...
As an Australian I've been very keen for this dr jillian we support you!
Dr Jillian, you give Australians hope that one day this nightmare will end. Thank you
I got choked up every time Jillian got a bit teary .. I so very much relate to the pain of having my intentions misunderstood when I was working with youth.
It’s heartbreaking to feel so rejected from a field so much of your passion and energy is derived from.
I first saw Jillian on a 60 mins show and was grateful to see her speak publicly with her concerns. Have not seen many from the Southern Hemisphere. I’m in New Zealand and it’s even more isolated than Australia. Is there any one in your organisation from New Zealand?
I admire Dr Jillian Spencer so much. A true health warrior. Morals that run deep & a heart that is huge to drive her incredible courage. She is supported more than she knows! From a fellow Aussie, avid listener, health professional, and a parent, thanks you Dr Jillian Spencer for advocating for Aussie kids & teens.
As an Aussie, we need more of Dr Jillian. I dont want to see us go down this sewer hole that other countries are grappeling with this revolting ideology. Women are being degraded and children abused under a
'we care' .
When will this nutty stuff die off ?
Thank you to Jillian Spencer for taking a brave stand to defend children against ideologically driven practices that devastate children's capacity to fully grow and become.
This woman is so brave, very inspiring. Even though her voice is timid and shaking she did what was right. That’s not easy
Thank you for being such a ‘lion’, Doctor Jillian. What you’ve done and are still doing takes a lot of courage borne of genuine concern for young Australians. Kindest regards, a fellow Aussie.
My teen attended the Brisbane gender clinic, thankfully during covid restrictions so only via telehealth. They say they are "multidisciplinary" and provide a "team approach" but we only ever spoke to one nurse. When my daughter was going though a mental health crisis we asked if we could talk to one of their psychologists or psychiatrists - they said they didn't have any available and referred us to private psychologists (all who turned out to work part time at the gender clinic). They offered for us to come in and try on binders - with zero risks mentioned of using them. They gave us a handful of journal articles to support affirmation only - all very poor quality articles and no mention of the risks of "gender affirming care". Thankfully our kid slowly came out of this on her own. She's autistic and gay - prime fodder for this cult. Queensland state politicians and Qld Health have ignored my pleas asking them to review the evidence - and to look into the Cass review. Now the Melbourne gender clinic want to allow any general practitioners in the country to prescribe cross sex hormones - when there is zero high quality evidence it's helpful, and much evidence that it's harmful.
😳 cultists are never interested in evidence. That‘s why they have all their „mantras“ to turn back to when they don‘t have answers to ppl with a real interest in evidence based regulation and concerns that this practice was neglected/denied…It‘s horrible for all the kids who are victims of an ideology😢😢😢
Only lawsuits will arrest this utter insanity.
Omg...your poor family and daughter. These so called professional s are brainwashed.
So the rot is really here !
I hope you are all doing well. ❤
I just don't understand how so many people, whose primary responsibility was the care of children, could be so unbelievably blind to something so clearly misguided and dangerous. 50 books, 2 responses!
I hope with all my heart that this phenomenon prompts serious research that can provide answers as to why some people see this immediately, yet others not only don't see it, but seem to actively work to shut down dissenters. What makes some people (the majority?) so vulnerable to the proclamations of authority? Every story about the clinicians involved in this leaves me baffled, these are trained professionals, exactly the people that should be LESS vulnerable to nonsense, who should be up on the research, that should know about delusions etc.
I believe that as so much is at risk for them, in terms of their career, reputation, and the energy resource investment they have made gaining status as an “expert” in the field, that avoidance of any dissent is just becomes a survival protection mechanism. Can’t question the collective, because the collective is what supports them.
It’s appalling what has happened to Jillian’s career!
Very happy you have Dr Jillian on today. Was actually hoping a couple of days ago that you'd do an episode with her. It's clear from this interview she's a very thoughtful and caring person. She was unfairly portrayed by the ABC Four Corners program earlier in the year where a child's death was used to manipulate the viewers. So very glad to hear her speak in full. Hope you'll have more Australians on in future.
Just finished watching. Thanks Dr Jillian for your bravery.
Yes, it was obvious when comparing Dr Spencer on 4 Corners vs 7 Spotlight how deliberately the ABC show edited Dr Spencer and detransitioner Courtney Coulson to make them seem less authoritative, and to leave out half their stories.
That they would use the death of a child to push their agenda makes me sick. Is there no level they will not stoop to?
big love to Jillian. i bet she's been a wonderful psychiatrist to children and teens going through scary times. I look forward to future government inquiries where the Queensland gender clinic gets exposed for all this
Thank you to Jillian Spencer for speaking out .
It is important that GP's, psychiatrists, and anyone who can refer to " gender services " must be dis-abused of the false notion that there is a special expertise that allows diagnosis of children who would inevitably grow up to be trans adults. It's also important that the public must learn that there is no test or diagnostic in childhood that could reliably predict being gender distressed in adulthood , no matter how " expert " the clinician seeing the child is. Most children will desist from gender distress / cross- identity without intervention.
The affirmative model , and the timing at which they advocate " blockers " are designed to prevent desistance , a " cure" to prevent the growth and conflict that usually lead to recovery.
While it's true that many duplicating that model are unaware of that intention , any who are well read in the original publications of the founders of the " affirmation model " must understand its purpose ( it's very sad that so many do terrible things they wouldn't do if they bothered to read original studies instead of relying on propaganda level summaries).
Fully agree with you on everything you said but the aspect of some professionals being naive - there is no excuse at this point for anyone - professional or public- to be ignorant of the grave harms. It’s a model that is totally in opposition to ANY psychological/psychiatric knowledge/literature/treatment models in terms of symptoms and how to respond.
At this point everyone knows that this is wrong- the professionals advocating for this are either afraid of external forces -social/professional punishment or are actively lying to themselves and know they are doing it or they are empowering themselves with a narcissistic need to be a special helper.
Whatever it is driving this collusion in delusion -
It’s totally disgusting.
Jillian makes a good point about the female-teen typical behaviour of teens girls who trans identify. " Trans boi " subculture is very much a hyper - female-typical teen culture.
@@rachelforshee6014And too much artificial expectations & pressure created by sm/too much consumption of it before they can properly analyze the content and the complexity of the cause of their fears. Puberty is naturally a challenge, a whole new world& internal experiences unknown are coming one‘s way and instead of discussing the real inner struggles, they are replaced by sth easier to grasp, a simple explanation with following steps and procedures they think give them security but will make them more miserable. It‘s very sad, I agree😢
Thank you for giving the enormously courageous Dr Spender a voice.
I admire Dr. Jillian Spencer so much!
Thank you for this fascinating conversation; what a courageous and compassionate psychiatrist!
Glad you enjoyed it!
No matter how serious and grave the subject, I always come away from your episodes feeling positive and uplifted.
When stating fact is seen as hate/ bigotry and doing so can end your career, we can no longer deny the decent into facism
My interest in this topic is to familiarize myself with the topic so I'm prepared to engage with others from a strong, knowledgeable place. Thank you for the excellent guests and stimulating discussions! Keep it up❤
I had no idea this was so deliberate
The physiotherapy clinic in st James Hospital Dublin also has a ton of flags, trans terminology etc. It made me very uncomfortable. The new children’s hospital in Dublin also boasts the biggest “Rainbow Garden” in Europe…whatever that means. It’s terrifying.
Top down billionaire agenda. Transgender to Transhumanism Martine Rothblatt
Just came here to express my love and respect for Stella, Sasha and the courageous Dr Spencer (who I’m proud to call a fellow Australian).
💜 Olivia -
Woman / Adult Human Female
an amazingly brave woman, all sounds terrifying. Thank you
I worked as a Psych. nurse in Melbourne but retired mid 2010 before this garbage had really taken hold. I have spoken to several people recently who have recently completed psychology degrees and it was concerning to learn that they are still being taught John Money's ideas but his name is not familiar to them.
Read Wikipedia's whitewashed version of John Money. All truth is being subverted.
Sending hugs to you Jillian. I also find it so very upsetting.
When Sasha asked about Dr Spencer's tears and where all the emotion was coming from, I smiled and thought, "ever the therapist." I am such a crier that I have heard those comments and questions with every therapist and probably supervisor I've ever had. I think I could count on 1 hand (without the thumb!) the times I have NOT cried in supervision or any sort of "constructive criticism" meeting! I think I am just sooo shame-based and approval-hungry that I come into any mtg in the "1-down" position. I keep listening to your podcasts even tho I have no personal interactions with gender issues, because I love your (both of you) soothing tone and approach. I'm also learning a lot about current culture. In my late 60's, working retail because mental health was too stressful, yet wanting to engage in some aspect of human services. I got training as an ADHD Coach, but choked on the last quarter when I was supposed to set up a website etc. I understand the importance, and want to be more savvy with digital stuff, but maybe it was the reality of actually working with clients that stopped me. I think I have some trauma outcomes from those supervision sessions...
I just really like listening to and learning from you both.
Thank you Dr. Spencer! We support you and your work! Be well!❤
Sydney resident here. The gay community is very strong here. You do not know what to say to people. You can not risk saying the wrong thing tbh. The job market is small it could be financial and career ruining for you if you are percieved to be homaphobic, trans phobic or even just a non ally.
19min, outrageous that a mental health leader was touting Diane Erensaft's meaningless "insistent, consistent, persistent " as diagnostic.
Re waiting list , while letting kids know they are on a waiting list can contribute to waiting fixation , given that the clinics are what they are, the longer the waiting list for those type of clinics , the better chance the child has of receiving more trustworthy care in the mean time , or simply desisting . There is no redeeming the clinics and practitioners who have been complicit in affirmative model interventions , so anything creating shorter waiting lists for their access to children is a danger.
Wow “Insistent, Consistent, Persistent”
That’s OCD
Or hyperfixation ADHD Autism
@@thenonpartisan- this!
Omg!😂 "human" is the problematic word. I busted out laughing at that point of the story.
I have the ' Woman Adult Human Female' tshirt. Love it.
Love the show❤
I tried to speak to my local MP about this issue and was told I sounded transphobic for using the word 'help' in the context of trans-identified children. Apparently saying they need 'help' implies there is something wrong with them and they need 'fixing'. I tried to explain that I most definitely don't think they need 'fixing', especially not the 'fixing' which involves drugs and surgery.
@@elizabeththrift7697I find this at once immediately relatable and bizarre.
How do they claim kids need medical intervention because they are "trans kids" and yet think they don't need help at the very same time? I repeatedly get hit by their cognitive dissonance over and again.
Kudos.
I love her!
Phenomenal ❤
So inspiring
Do fish cry?
Do fish commit suicide?
Salmon do.
@@mht5875 Elephants, whales and dogs all sometimes do (commit suicide). And moths.
You beat me to it 😂
We stopped going to our teen’s pediatrician because they kept referring her back to the gender clinic even she wants nothing to do with the gender clinic. So we started going to walk in clinics for health care in the hopes of just avoiding the referrals. Yes, its 400.00 out of pocket but … The thought was, they would just treat the current issue she would have, like a flu. But last time I was there, the attending doctor walked in with her iPad and guess what flag was on the cover? A giant trans pride flag! So does this mean they will prescribe hormones there? I didn’t ask, I just wanted to get my kid out of there asap. I just pray my kid doesn’t get sick, because I hate taking her to any doctor now! I’ve been reprimanded by medical staff for not using proper pronouns even though our medical insurance has her birth sex and name on it! How else can you care for a child without knowing their sex?! We are leaving the US to escape this madness, to a country that only has two gender clinics, not over 100+.
When my daughter desisted, our doctor knew. One time we had to see a different, younger doctor about a skin thing. When we'd finished discussing that the Dr pipes up "how's the gender stuff going?" even though it had been over a year since our teen had desisted and that was not what we were attending for. Imagine reviewing our chart before we came into the room and picking that as something to bring up when it wasn't even relevant? All roads lead to gender, even if you're running away from it.
@@TSmithQld I’m sorry you had to go through that. Hopefully your daughter was just as annoyed as you. They think hey are so right, these doctors! Where we’re going is slow to adopt, hopefully buying us some time. We’ve spent some time there and it’s just not so much a thing in the region we’re moving too. All surrounding countries have recently halted this madness.
@@NorCalMomAs a British man who will hopefully have a family in the near future but living in Spain I'm really dreading it coming here. They've already made some legal changes for self-id and some schools added non-binary to the list for gender/sex even though it rather laughably has to be written in either masculine or feminine. I'm hoping the fact most of the ideology falls to pieces when you translate it will make a difference.
I had a conversation with a "non-binary" male (you know how you can almost always tell) and they were thoroughly confused when I asked why they didn't put their pronouns in Spanish and only had them in English because they thought that was a ridiculous idea. Irony seems to have passed a certain generation by.
I sure hope this has blown over by the time you have a family. I would t wish this nightmare on anyone. @@robertmarshall2502
@@robertmarshall2502 But why are you referring to him as "they"? It's confusing!
Great interview. I don't work in this field, but I have thought it must be like this from other testimonials. I still don't understand how they came to the basic premise that medicalizing a minor in this way (puberty blockers, HRT) could possibly be the right move at this age. The responsible professionals and adults are being pushed out. I've interacted with several anonymous people in UA-cam comment sections, that I think were GD minors (can't confirm), arguing for puberty blockers and HRT for minors. It definitely seems that the young people have been convinced there is no risk, and this is a magic pill to fix everything they are uncomfortable with in life. As if they can switch bodies as easily as someone can select a new avatar in a video game. I seriously miss the 1990's, before the internet and social media. I struggled for so many years, well into adulthood, but when I decided to transition- I knew I had given 110% effort to overcoming my gender issues in every way for years and years. It was not until my late 30's that I started to think about cross-dressing and transition. I was 39 when I first dressed as a woman, and 43 when I started HRT. I understand that everyone is different. And I know that I had some serious setbacks very young (childhood SA, absentee father), and a lifetime of psychological difficulty (anxiety, major depression with PTSD). But I am grateful for who I am now, because of the struggles that I went through, and despite them. I know it is challenging and frustrating, but my position is that there should be an age minimum for medical transition, like 21 or 25, to try to ensure that people have really had the chance to mature physically and to overcome these issues by other means. I think that the long struggle is why I am so confident, and also so relieved by my transition. I'm so glad that no one told me I needed this or that it would fix things, back when I was younger. I think I might have done it, and then might have had serious doubt and regret that I did not give life a chance. Even though transition has gone wonderfully for me, I don't know that I would have been so sure if I hadn't exhausted other means to overcome it, and been able to really reflect and compare my pre- and post-transition mental health with a lifetime of experience to draw on.
Thank you for the wonderful interview, as usual! Sorry for the long self-centered post! I got up really early on this Sunday and am drinking my coffee. :) much love to you both. -Jen
Hey Jen, I am always pleased when I spot a comment of yours on here because it is always nuanced and personal. Have you watched any of the Genspect speeches? Any thoughts on the recent controversy?
@robertmarshall2502 hi there! Thank you for writing. How are you? :) are you referring to the attire of "Phil"? That is their name, correct? Pretty sure. Yes, I'm aware. I watched Benjamin Boyce's video. What are your thoughts? I don't mean to make short of it, but just for the sake of time, I think Phil should take the point of the people who have said they feel uncomfortable, and should listen and respect that.
@@jeng3609 Hi yeah I was referencing Phil. I think it's a bit of a shame because the speeches I've heard of so far have been really high quality and thought-provoking and yet overshadowed by a man in a dress.
I'm not 100% what my thoughts are yet tbh. I do agree that Phil has a personal responsibility. I'm actually not sure what his reaction has been, I feel like it's probably been good publicity for his book which sounds a bit pseudo scientific. We really need more info on autogynephiles at the same time. For the men as much as anyone else.
I also think Stella/Genspect were put in a position where they couldn't really do anything about it. If they'd have kicked him out then the ideologues would have had an absolute field day. Maybe they could have asked him to change? But if he said no then they were powerless and would they be making an issue out of it when they want to play it down. Clearly the photo shouldn't have gone out but also you can't have an event like this and have the leaders spending hours scrutinizing social media posts. I feel very sorry for the woman who took it and I really want to avoid criminalizing ppl who make overwhelmingly positive contributions. Ppl shouldn't have to feel terrible and apologize for easily made mistakes. I feel the same Stella. It feels like the ppl who attacked J K Rowling when she's been a ridiculously force for good in terms of literacy let alone money to women's charities.
The subjects it did open me up to considering, which I'd probably neglected, are things like:
If/when it is appropriate for an agp male to wear women's clothing (and what constitutes women's clothing, where do you draw the line)
Is it possible to live out a paraphilia in public with ppl in attendance in a harmless way? (to which I think the answer is no but at the same time it probably happens to women regularly)
Should ppl with paraphilias, e.g. Hayton be allowed to teach children? (my instinct is no but then the knock on effect of making autogynephiles go underground worries me. Logically a male teacher struggling with a paraphilia may well not come out with the information and not just for nefarious reasons but because he wants to be a good teacher, thinks he will control it etc.)
Does being fully post-op change how we treat agp males?
I don't really know what I think about a lot of that tbh. I'm looking forward to the Wpath files being released although honestly from the Shellenberger speech I felt like it's more making what we already know reach a public audience because I'd already heard of the shocking idea of transitioning someone who is a "system" of different personalities with different genders.
@robertmarshall2502 hi there. I agree that Phil got a good amount of publicity from the dress. Benjamin Boyce does an interview/debate with him about it, where Phil defends it as part of his regular attire. But I get the sense that he is somewhat of a shock-junkie, and enjoys making others a bit uncomfortable. I don't like that at all. Tbh. It seems disingenuous and overall problematic for others of us who want to blend in and don't want to make people feel uncomfortable.
I dont think it's possible or appropriate for the organization or the public to police that type of attire, but I think it's up to him, and those close to him, and his counselors or therapists to help him to see what he is doing and how he is making others feel, so that he can police himself.
In my opinion, those who fall into this AGP group are the "transvestites" and "cross dressors" of the past, they should not be supported in transition by their doctors or society. I don't think they should be forced underground, I think they should be free to cross dress, and to live their lives, but like I said above- they should take account of how their actions affect other people. I think intent is really important here. Though difficult to suss out, I really don't think Phil's behavior is as innocent or innocuous as he suggests in his interview with Benjamin. The difficulty is that we cannot make assumptions about people's intent and so can't police based on that, but I think that's what friends and therapists should help with.
@@jeng3609 I haven't watched that interview so I guess I should judge after but I can't really think of a non-suss reason for his choice of clothing. At best I'd class it as a publicity stunt. But I can't see a way to take those actions without a certain amount of narcissism and/or disregard for others.
Hi….the link to your website is not working, strangely enough! I was hoping to contact you about an experience I had today. Could you possibly double check the link please. Thank you. Great episode btw!
She lost her job over pronouns? This is madness.
They're a bit too smart for that. She may never actually "lose" her job.
I wonder if abbreviating adult human female as "AHF" would make it sound enough like an exotic identity to slip under the radar?
@Gender: A Wider Lens , a question: is there one of your episodes that describes or considers a possible phenomenon of ‘automutilation by proxy’? As some kind of variant of anorexia, scratching yourself, suicide by pills, etc? So that you say and actually believe you are genderdysphoric and ask for transition but hidden there is the (unconscious) desire to damage yourself?
While we don't have anything exactly as you described, you might want to check out our episode with Victoria Smith where we do touch on some similar themes. It's Episode 105.
Thank you very much! I am very impressed about your podcast. Found out about only 2 weeks ago since the Dutch revolution is also finally happening in the media. Your interviews are very insightful. 👌👌👌
The psychiatric term for what you are describing is "self harm." It is prominently associated with women/girls with eating disorders and borderline personality disorder/complex PTSD.
I think by proxy indicates someone else is inflicting it on the young person, as in Munchausen by proxy, but I could be wrong. The 'auto' part refers to the self. I get what you mean though. It's an important thought. It seems like explorative therapy would help to uncover something like that.
Thank you all. I am Dutch so this is what i thought as the best description and you all caught exactly what I meant :)
Indeed self harm in combi with some kind of Munchhausen attention seeking in an unconscious way. Self diagnosing this as a gender identity and through that get the feeling you are unique/special but meanwhile you harm yourself.
To be clear: this is not my hard conclusion, but i can imagine this is partly why there is such an explosion of dysphoric teenager/adolescents.
My biggest question is: is this well researched when you visit the hospital with your self claimed identity? I get the impression that many organisations too quickly accept the way the patient presents him or herself as truth or something everybody has to respect. I don’t think such a respect is received when you present yourself as an anorexic, because that is visually easier to recognize as unhealthy. With transgenderism the possible problems occur after the self harm (if that is the case of course).
I hope I stayed respectful and not offensive. That was not my intention. Just worried. 😢
In the Netherlands the main problem with Gender care is also the waiting list.. (sometimes 2 or 3 years) Everyone is getting way worse while on the list. And the waiting list also works like a one way fish trap.
Right now my hypothesis is that every thing you have to wait for makes you more likely to choose the thing you're waiting for?
The covid lockdowns seemed to cause a lot of GD, puberty blockers, time to think, were just 'time to wait for what you want', and now the waiting lists are doing the same thing.
So what we kinda need is a way to help these kids whlie they are waiting for the gender clinic..
It's called therapy. I don't think anyone should be referred to the gender clinic without first having had 1-hour long weekly therapy for at least a year with a therapist who doesn't focus on gender but who tries to figure out what's really going on (almost always something else). I also don't think anyone should medically transition because it's simply bad medicine. Even worse when done on minors.
There shoudn`t be any "gender" clinics in the first place. Humanity survived without them for millenia without problems. The more we make kids believe in "gender"(whatever that means) the more they become obsessed with it. We should also stop using the language of the gender mob. Transgender, trans child, trans woman, trans man, gender identity, gender expression, gender presentation, cis etc are terms designed to let people believe in this rubbish.
We don't need gender clinics. Get a clue. There is no gender dysphoria. It's a psyops.
I have a theory about your subscriber numbers. I postulate that vastly more people listen to your podcasts than actually subscribe. People fear that they will suffer retribution by their employers if it is discovered that they are subscribers. I am sure that UA-cam has the metrics to prove my theory. It is a sign of the times we are in. Your approach to this topic is too valuable for me to not support you.
Thank you so much for your support!
I created an account under a pseudonym in order to study this topic freely. I'm a clinical psychologist who is deeply disturbed by the transgender phenomenon.
comment for the algorithm
Intersex?
The trans movement using intersex as an excuse is insulting to those rare individuals who might actually have a legitimate issue with their gender.
Trans people are not intersex. They are mostly males with autogynephillia.