Lance, the new group head part does not made from teflon , it is made from pps plastic. One of their prototype was made from teflon, but it had issues.
@@LanceHedrick Dear Lance, It would be really wonderful if influencers like you could start to push for more non-toxic builds 🙏 Toxic coatings like Teflon as well as most plastics that leach forever chemicals especially at higher temps are rampant in coffee machines. Awareness is spreading for cookware like pots and pans, but still seems non-existent across high temp high pressure espresso machines 😢
found out the hard way of the teflon use in my Breville. Took off the shower screen and the teflon was flaking! Even in Hoffman's review of the $20k Manument they use a teflon coated group head piece. Bought a Flair and it's the only 'machine' I'll use from now on.
@@alang253 I had the sage/breville dual boiler and the Teflon coated parts flaked off for me too .On the decent, it use solid Teflon tube, not coated. And the group head part is made from Solid PPS. Even if you scratch it it won't peel like a coated parts.
For those like me that want to know the alternatives mentioned in the introduction, they are Maro Model 1, Kafmasino, Unica pro, Synesso and Meticulous
Maro: same price and ugly Kafmasino: ugly Unica Pro: double the price Synesso: triple the price Meticulous: half price, but refilling water manually.... The decent has alternatives, but at this price point, it kills the competition.
This video is really confusing. The title implies this is an assessment of the current product, yet most of the discussion is about your past experience......
2.5 years into the DE1XL and I'd buy it again in a heart-beat if I had to. It's small, it's fast to heat up, I had no issues with it. I have upgraded group-head, steam-wand and tip, there is constantly new things to try with software from the community or new hardware or new ideas to make coffee. I use it for espresso, for filter and for tea and I love how community focussed the team at Decent is. This is probably going to be the last coffee machine I'll ever buy and I've already stashed the usual replacement parts just in case. It's the first joy of every morning at home.
@@LanceHedrick Would be cool to hear from you how the different steam flow-rate settings in the Decent change the milk steaming or affect the outcome. Or how boiler steaming and thermal block steaming differ. Learned a lot from your videos on making latte art and it'd be a cool deep dive! Or maybe I have just not found that in your videos yet? Thanks for making all this content!
@@baselsalam There are two ways: 1. Use their V60 programs with their specialty filter basket and ... put a V60 cone on a cup with a paper filter under the brew head. The filter basket has just 9 tiny holes creating water jets that agitate the filter coffee grounds nicely and over 2+ minutes or so. It takes away the variability of a manual poor and makes for very consistent temperature and results. 2. Use the largest basket you have (22 or 24g) put a paper filter disk on the bottom, grind 15g of coffee coarsely for filter and have them sit evenly and untempered in the basket. They have a Filter 2.1 program to support this, but I found better results creating my own program to slowly saturate the grounds with a little water over and over again. It's technically more like an immersion brew that drains regularly and the coffee is not quite as crisp and clean as the V60 since some muddier water slips around the paper filter disk, but it makes for consistent and very flavourful brews.
since im a flair 58 owner i always wonder what makes completely automating away the brewing experience exciting. I guess you can make shots much quicker with different variable settings, other than that it's a very detached experience that's not remotely the same as a lever machine. I wouldn't limit yourself to such automated tools over the more manual experience
I've had a Decent for several years -- their first one without the grouphead controls and now a new XL. During that time I've also had a GS3, Slayer, Londinium R and Speedster. I recommend the Decent to friends with limited counter space, want to play around and learn, and those who can benefit from its quick heatup and ease of use once it's set up. HOWEVER, the big problem with the Decent is that the coffee it makes is never as good as that which it is trying to replicate. One can set up seemingly the same parameters and simply not get as good a shot. This is obvious even to my wife when pulling side by side shots. What becomes clear is that there is an unaccounted-for variable in espresso making. So while it seems like all this control gives the best of all worlds, the result is simply that it is its own machine with its own quirks just like the rest. In the end, I think that makes it great for what it is, but perhaps less than what it promises to be.
The more I see/read feedback from actual users the more I believe that this machine is basically a jack-of-all-trades kind of machine, but sadly master of none.
@@googlereviewer2743 that was exactly my experience after 3 years of owning it. It is good for sure, but most of the features are useless (not eventually used) in the real world. So, why bother?
Bought a Decent three years ago and wouldn’t trade it for any other. If I ever get bored of a profile, someone in the community has some new funky ideas to test. It’s a machine for continuous exploration.
I have drank espresso from the decent for 4 years. For 48 months I've tried over 100 beans and they all require something a little different profile or adjustment to bring out the best. Something a lever machine or literally every other machine couldn't hope to achieve. Occasionally software bugs sure, but I've had other espresso machines have weird behavior too. Decent is great still :)
@@WeBuild4Life might want to check out the Meticulous, it seems like it might be a good combination of lever mechanics and Decent tweaking and repeatability!
Hey Lance, you should cover the Gaggiuino. They have a PCB kit you can buy now that makes installation much easier. It would be interesting to see the comparison to the Decent at a fraction of the price.
I've had my DE1Pro for almost 9 months now, looking forward to watching this. I've encountered so many software bugs (Bluetooth disconnections, visualiser upload failures, skip first step) that a simpler machine is tempting. However, nothing else will give me the combo of small footprint, quick heat up time, awesome community of people making new and interesting profiles, and data storage (via visualiser). I think I'd buy a decent again right now, but if i had more space and willingness to wait for a longer heat up, a LR24 would be very tempting. I'd miss fun profiles like ExDos though.
“I’m so glad you enjoyed the dinner we prepared for you my friends! Unfortunately, due to multiple software glitches we will not be having the promised espresso this evening.”
I’ve got the decent homebridge plugin running so I can turn it on with Siri or Apple HomeKit. Wake up, turn on espresso machine, get out of bed, shuffle around and by the time I’m down stairs and infront of the machine it’s ready for me.
Oh, just a slight correction, the limit on pre-infusion on that default pressure profile editor isn't a pressure limit for the pre-infusion, it's a "move on at" value. So it would move to the rise and hold step at 0.6 bar, not maintain it for that whole time.
😂 1 million thanks for the guy who plugged back the tablet. I couldn't stop looking at the cable since you unplugged it and I was like - PLUG THE DAMN CABLE!!!
Nice vid Lance 👏 btw, imo the tea portafilter is a highly underrated accessory. It brews tea so much better than the normal dose and steep in hot water. It's gotten me and my partner into and excited about teas
Really enjoyed the review! It was very fair, and quite on point with most of the observations, although I don't encounter the inconsistency you mentioned as a result of the machine. I pull max 5-10 shots a day as a home user. I've been a decent owner for almost 9 months now, and the decent community has taught me so much about coffee (not just how to make it better in many different ways) that I feel like I've been into this hobby for years. This machine helps the user understand the science behind espresso and coffee as much as the art and the cup. I cannot be happier with my purchase and would buy it again if faced a choice today.
Excellent review update! I really like how their approach to iterating and providing upgrades to current customers. I think as someone looking for something with flow profiling and likes nerding out on coffee this is an excellent machine and with the iterative process makes it easy to keep it current without replacing the machine completely.
Why is the shot inconsistency not an issue for home baristas? Did you incur that due to the very high temperature / steam build up as a result of pulling the ~100 shots, or because you were experimenting with high temperatures and a home barista won’t? This comment will likely pause many considering purchasing so we would love to hear more from you!
For all those following the comments, I’ve decided to purchase despite this. I don’t think there is enough evidence here that suggests decent machines have a problem with shot consistency..
I too have the Decent. I also experience the crazy making inconsistencies and I too put it down to my puck prep even though I M very confident and consistent. Thank goodness it’s not just me and that a world class barista also shares this annoyance.
That’s the biggest thing, I’ve got a LMLM and I appreciate the stability, it’s consistent and very good at it. The last thing I want to do is mess around with a tablet when I wake up lol.
We typically use a slightly modded default profile for cafe shots. The shot times vary 1-4 seconds, which we usually attribute to puck prep. See a slightly shorter shot time, wdt better next shot and it is usually fine. The biggest issue we see is when we go hit a new bag of beans in the hopper, even though its all the "same" roast from the same bean. Overall, the consistency is remarkable.
@StephenProsserHCC Do you guys use the XXL version in your cafe? I just purchased the XL for a coffee cart, and am having thoughts of returning it (mainly because of the slow steam/not steaming at the same time as pulling a shot) What are your thoughts on this?
@@travisdip we use 2 XXLs and 1 XXXL (prototype). The XXXL steams ~10 seconds faster than the XXL. We mainly pull shots on the xxls and steam on the xxxl.
Would you consider doing a brief review on a Decent equipped with all of the big aftermarket upgrades? They're a huge aspect of the corner of the Decent community focused on achieving perfection. Just as you mention the Gaggia kit, there have been parallel strides made by those modding/upgrading Decent machines (e.g., Decent's own 3-hole steam wand tip, silicone gasket, and water intake filter; or SWD's group head water diffuser block and spacer). Personally, I've experienced huge gains in consistency and workflow with these modifications. Possibly the biggest part of owning a Decent is the ongoing feedback loop between the company and its product's users. How many other espresso machine manufacturers offer continuous iterative upgrades with backward compatibility for existing users to incorporate in their own machines?
Nice review... I also don't have the inconsistency you mention. I only update once in two months or so... and that I do in the evening when I'm not having coffee. I also like the machine gun pump... because when I hear how varied the intermittency is, I know it's doing something clever! Oh, I upgraded my tablet to a samsung, and when I'm working in the kitchen I watch youtube/netflix/whatever, and use my moveable tablet to keep me entertained while making curry or sourdough!
Great video Lance! Would you consider doing a video on which profiles you like the best on the Decent and for which types of coffees? Or posting that info sometime?
I thought for sure the "elephant in the room" section would be that this machine was selling for about $1000 and now sells for $4000. Sure, it was on kickstarter and there was risk associated with that, and sure inflation has been bad, but quadrupling the price is pretty hard to swallow.
I do have a lot of reboots and update issues with software. I have done a lot of physical updates to reduce the puck head space. I have noticed some shot inconsistencies and just thought it was my Niche grinder. It doesn't always happen though. I think I should calibrate my machine which I have not done.
Worked as a manager at an Italian restaurant where we had a La Marzocco and I used to run the coffee bar. Very cool to learn cause it wasn’t my money lmao. Had a janky old nespresso machine for years but finally upgrading my home bar. Was eyeing a decent since the summer and glad to see there are some updated thoughts on it. Now that I’ve gotten a bunch of fat reimbursements for business trips and I’ve finished buying holiday gifts it is time. I love me some tech, unnecessary tech problems, and diy mods so this things looking like a dream… I mean minus being like $4000 but hey I’ve done worse… no wait nope, no this is probably the most I’ve spent on a single hobby non vehicle.
I just got a decent 1.44 last month. Upgraded from a Rocket and it’s been really great to be able to replicate the e61 profile while at the same time being able to pull high EY% shots like the blooming espresso - which is something I’ve never had the privilege of experiencing at home. Although I will say it can all get really overwhelming really fast 😂
yeah sure, calibrate it and then measure on a scale some calibration points such as 3-5-6g/s you will see the calibrations are not accurate, so it sucks.
The Decent is passé. You’re nothing in today’s incredibly competitive home espresso world if you don’t have the $5900 Linea Micra, of course with the $1600 flow control addition. You also must have one of the coveted grinders (such as the $2500 Kafetek), with $800 custom burrs. Add in the $400 Weber Unibasket and the $425 Moonraker WDT tool, along with the most professional knockbox… oh, and I forgot the mag-pulse anti static tool to add to the grinder. Nope, you have no business trying to make a small cup of black coffee at home unless you can muster the $14,000.00 entry fee
It has nothing to do with new group head parts. I've got them and have had them for a while. It's definitely a pump issue or a conroller issue. Plus, how often do you pull one hundred shots? Ha! As I said, probably not a big deal for normal users
I just bought a DE1XL and I frequently see big temperature differences in the first 4-6 seconds (the start of the pre-infusion phase) shot-to-shot. I wonder how much this might influence shot consistency given that higher temperatures generally lead to faster flowing shots. Typically I see mix temperature dips immediately to around 5C below the goal temperature, but recovers in a second or so. The basket temperature probe typically takes 5-6 seconds to come up from the dip though. Various people suggest that this is due to the temperature of the coffee, but if you run the same profile without a portafilter then you see the exact same thing still happening, so I don't buy this explanation at all. (All of this is with the standard Default profile, so nothing fancy to explain it.) It would be very interesting to see more analysis on the impact of those first few seconds of flow temperature on the shot if you have the right tools to do so. I think it would be interesting both in the context of the Decent but also what it means for other machines.
After more experimenting, I've found the first shot of the day often drops by about 5C for the first few seconds. The 2nd shot of the day often drops by about 15C for the first few seconds. (This is with the Default profile.) By the time the reported temperature recovers to within 1C of the target temperature, 25% of the water for the entire shot has been dispensed. This feels like it might be a big deal for a machine that prides itself on temperature accuracy and given how important temperature is for espresso extraction?
As far as inconsistency goes, I think it has something to do with temperature, I remember reading a baristahuscle article on it. On my old sage, I found that my temperature would be wildly different for each shot and my pulls would vary by as much as 11 seconds, but if I waited and restarted the machine, it would be within a second. I believe this might be because the decent doesn't fully heat up the portafilter because of the whole temperature profiling thing. Maybe pulling shots the "budget machine" way where you run a few blank shots through the portafilter to heat it up, it would fix the issue. I love your reviews btw! They're super in depth and informative.
The Decent has a heater for the portafilter. And as Lance stated, temperature is very consistent on the Decent. Consistent, not just stable, because you can choose a stable or fluctuating temperature
@@LanceHedrick the question of consistency is *huge* for a lot of home enthusiasts, especially the ones interested in Decent. If I use the same recipe two days in a row it is very important for me to get a nearly identical result, otherwise I don't know what I'm doing i.e. I don't know how the recipe is affecting the taste. Consistency is key when chasing god shots i.e. trying to replicate them :)
Oh I'm aware haha. I've pulled not a few espressos at home on not a few machines. The consistency was not a normal thing hence my not noticing it on the newer one. I haven't done a 100 shot test on this new one. It is consistent enough as I clearly stated in the video for normal usage
Baskets has very little contact area with a bottomless pf so it only takes a few seconds to heat up. I think focusing on consistency in shot time on the Decent is a red herring as the servo feedback is correcting the flow, pressure and temp. It's no wonder that a small low workload machine isn't as thermally stable as a semi professional unit, but it corrects for that.
Hi Lance In regards to the Dynamic Thermal Control, I believe, but could very well be wrong, there is another machine on the market that does that: The Heylo Espresso Machine. Then again, could be wrong. :) Thanks for your interesting videos! Kind regards from Denmark
I think that variation is due to vibe pump regulating the pressure with OPV set to 12bar. I feel like it could never match consistency of hard 9 bar OPV bleed with consistent pumping VS vibe pump pulsating to hit target pressure.
Hi Lance, I think it's worth mentioning the latest DE1 has just seen a big price drop, especially for overseas buyers. Combination of good exchange rate and Decent no longer applying a 15% shipping uplift. As an example UK prices have dropped about £800-900. Significant.
I purposefully don't mention pricing because it varies so much globally. And I'm not a sales person ha! Intrigued people are a Google away from finding it lol
You may want to know that Dalla corte Mina has implemented flow control (not pressure ) for a long time . Have you ever had the chance to look at and review it?
i think Rancillio came out with an espresso machine that was capable of temperature profiling. i forget the name of it but i believe they debuted it at one of the Seattle sca (maybe even scaa) conventions. i think it was a commercial machine however.
All of these fancy new machines just make me glad I bought the Cafelat Robot a year ago. I can do all the pressure and flow profiles I want and there is definitely something to be said about the fact that you can actually feel how the coffee puck reacts to your manual pressure, unlike with all these more expensive automatic machines. I generally stick to 2 bar pre-infusion + 1g/s yield flow, and adjusting the pressure manually to achieve that doesn't require fiddling with a screen or downloading a script to do it. As a data scientist, I appreciate all the data an automatic machine like the decent can collect but there's a point at which you lose touch with what's actually happening to your coffee when all you see is a line on a graph, rather than experience it yourself with your hands. And I know that my robot will last multiple generations while these machines will just end up as e-waste once software updates stop and they become attack vectors for hackers.
Great review, I want one, if I could justify it to sit close to my Linea Mini. My only nit: dude, when you slurp the coffee, I need to turn the volume off :)
That’s right, Vincent designed the Group Head Paddle - I bought mine from him - great guy 👍 sorry for the mix up but thanks for the shoutout on the drip tray covers.
Thanks! I crave tactile UI/UX, and the Synesso MVP Hydra style paddle is a big improvement. Can't imagine using a DE1 without it now. I'm not currently selling them, though I may open-source a hardwired version at some point if I have time to actually finish it. Too many projects!
I prefer the tactile feel and “ art” of pulling each shot on my Lelit Bianca. But I am an analog guy living in a digital world. Heck, I just bought a new sports car with a standard transmission even though an automatic is faster. 😂
I’m kinda like you but I still prefer the decent to a traditional machine somewhat because the of the modding upgrading and community behind it somewhat because of the modularity of the profiles in a automatic Also it’s funny to say but Manuel transmissions are banned in a lot of drag-racing classes because there a unfair advantage to make the car go faster you could absolutely make your car faster than the automatic with some training and shifter modifications
You can create Micra profile on the Decent and run that profile all day long until you want something else. With the Micra, you are limited to what the Micra can do. And if that's all you want it's a decent assumption you don't need the Decent.
Great insight as always. Being able to temperature profile shots could offer additional control flavor profiles in the espresso world! Looking forward to future content on temperature profiling in both pour-over and espresso
Lance did you see Black Colour mode??? Fxxing bowling ball handle..... Also 220v 60hz country Not enough pump power although pressuer can't make 9bar just limit 6bar..... john ignore this problem
I hope the Sanremo You goes down a similar route though, improving the app and utilizing things like Visualizer to build a community and increase customization.
You should make a video with a overview of machines inspired in the Decent-inspired category it was really difficult to catch all the names you gave in 2 minutes
For me coffee machines have two roles... one to make great coffee and two ... to look great and have a nice user experience. The latter for me is an e61 style or traditional looking machine. I would love the technology in this but without the looks and screen etc. Give me a Profitect 400 Pro look or ECM Mechanicka and add in the modern group head and controls etc underneath the skin and I'll be happy
Good follow up review Lance! I have had mine now for 2 years and love it. However from that stand point, I still do not recommend for the average espresso lover. This is for those of us that really want to play with profiles.
@@robertusga My opinion, by no means am I a professional, this is based on mine and friends experience: Gagia Classic Pro w/PID or Rocket Appartamento. Both are opposite end of spectrum for price and build quality but both have been tried and true to us. No bullshit, they work. Good puck prep and go. None of us have ever said we hate them either. Just my thoughts.
Off topic, but I'd like to see home roaster machines with similar profile sharing capabilities. Maybe we could build a DIY version, similar to gagguino, based on a cheap air roaster sold on Ali
Enjoyed this video and I ultimately decided to finally buy one. Have you had any problem connecting the Acaia lunar to the DE1 app. You seemed to be using ‘stop at weight’ without any difficulties. Any tricks or tips for successfully connecting DE1 with the Lunar ?
You say the machine is inconsistent in shot time, but does it taste inconsistent? I think focusing on consistency in shot time on the Decent is a red herring as the servo feedback is correcting the flow, pressure and temp. As you say it's a small flash boiler so it's much less thermally stable as the La Marzocco, but in principle it should correct for that in the end result.
what i said, if you listened carefully, is when I pulled a great number of shots, it was inconsistent and the data had to be thrown out. I immediately said this issue likely would not affect home users. cheers
Do all these variables actually produce tangible benefits? One thing is having it, another is whether its any good. For example is there a tangible positive differnce to shots with temp variation? It must be really hard to debug so many variables. Given the choice I’d take a Micra any day because as someone in IT already I dont wanna patch my coffee machine.
@@LanceHedrickmoving from flat 9 bars to lowering pressure profiles was a game changer for me. Dark Kenyan roasts lost the bitterness and became beautifully sweet.
@@LanceHedrick ive read of people who set conventional machines to 6 bar to get more modern shots. Lever type shots do sound meaningfully different and better to some. Still waiting for the perfect machine with integrated steamer.
@@LanceHedrick Are there machines around or under $2000 that can do the type of espresso you enjoy easily and repeatably without modding or micromanaging the machine with manual flow control and such? I just want a machine that can do any roast level reasonably well, including lights roasts, and can do it simply and repeatably. Been considering machines like Profitec Move, Ascaso Steel Duo PID, and Breville Dual Boiler, but don't want to buy a $1500-$2000 machine only to discover that they can only brew mediocre light roast espresso due to not enough control.
I've had a chance to use this toy for about 3 weeks, in the end, I decided to return it, as I just couldn't get used to the software and strange sounds that made my espresso making routine less enjoyable.
You mention back to back shots are all over the place. I just purchased a Decent XL for a coffee cart setup, and I'm wondering if you think that the inconsistency will be a problem in a commercial setting? I seem to have more trouble dialing in on this machine too, could that be from the inconsistency?
Lance, the new group head part does not made from teflon , it is made from pps plastic. One of their prototype was made from teflon, but it had issues.
Mine is Teflon. Good call. I'll update in description.
@@LanceHedrick
Dear Lance,
It would be really wonderful if influencers like you could start to push for more non-toxic builds 🙏
Toxic coatings like Teflon as well as most plastics that leach forever chemicals especially at higher temps are rampant in coffee machines.
Awareness is spreading for cookware like pots and pans, but still seems non-existent across high temp high pressure espresso machines 😢
@@AK27AK highly agree, teflon in a coffee machine is a catastrophic idea.
found out the hard way of the teflon use in my Breville. Took off the shower screen and the teflon was flaking! Even in Hoffman's review of the $20k Manument they use a teflon coated group head piece. Bought a Flair and it's the only 'machine' I'll use from now on.
@@alang253 I had the sage/breville dual boiler and the Teflon coated parts flaked off for me too .On the decent, it use solid Teflon tube, not coated. And the group head part is made from Solid PPS. Even if you scratch it it won't peel like a coated parts.
For those like me that want to know the alternatives mentioned in the introduction, they are Maro Model 1, Kafmasino, Unica pro, Synesso and Meticulous
Maro: same price and ugly
Kafmasino: ugly
Unica Pro: double the price
Synesso: triple the price
Meticulous: half price, but refilling water manually....
The decent has alternatives, but at this price point, it kills the competition.
refilling water manually has more advantages than the disadvantage you mentioned tho@@fratista
This video is really confusing. The title implies this is an assessment of the current product, yet most of the discussion is about your past experience......
2.5 years into the DE1XL and I'd buy it again in a heart-beat if I had to. It's small, it's fast to heat up, I had no issues with it. I have upgraded group-head, steam-wand and tip, there is constantly new things to try with software from the community or new hardware or new ideas to make coffee. I use it for espresso, for filter and for tea and I love how community focussed the team at Decent is. This is probably going to be the last coffee machine I'll ever buy and I've already stashed the usual replacement parts just in case. It's the first joy of every morning at home.
Heck yeah! Love to hear that!
@@LanceHedrick Would be cool to hear from you how the different steam flow-rate settings in the Decent change the milk steaming or affect the outcome. Or how boiler steaming and thermal block steaming differ. Learned a lot from your videos on making latte art and it'd be a cool deep dive! Or maybe I have just not found that in your videos yet?
Thanks for making all this content!
@serrynaimo how do you make filter in it??
@@baselsalam There are two ways:
1. Use their V60 programs with their specialty filter basket and ... put a V60 cone on a cup with a paper filter under the brew head. The filter basket has just 9 tiny holes creating water jets that agitate the filter coffee grounds nicely and over 2+ minutes or so. It takes away the variability of a manual poor and makes for very consistent temperature and results.
2. Use the largest basket you have (22 or 24g) put a paper filter disk on the bottom, grind 15g of coffee coarsely for filter and have them sit evenly and untempered in the basket. They have a Filter 2.1 program to support this, but I found better results creating my own program to slowly saturate the grounds with a little water over and over again. It's technically more like an immersion brew that drains regularly and the coffee is not quite as crisp and clean as the V60 since some muddier water slips around the paper filter disk, but it makes for consistent and very flavourful brews.
since im a flair 58 owner i always wonder what makes completely automating away the brewing experience exciting. I guess you can make shots much quicker with different variable settings, other than that it's a very detached experience that's not remotely the same as a lever machine.
I wouldn't limit yourself to such automated tools over the more manual experience
I've had a Decent for several years -- their first one without the grouphead controls and now a new XL. During that time I've also had a GS3, Slayer, Londinium R and Speedster. I recommend the Decent to friends with limited counter space, want to play around and learn, and those who can benefit from its quick heatup and ease of use once it's set up. HOWEVER, the big problem with the Decent is that the coffee it makes is never as good as that which it is trying to replicate. One can set up seemingly the same parameters and simply not get as good a shot. This is obvious even to my wife when pulling side by side shots. What becomes clear is that there is an unaccounted-for variable in espresso making. So while it seems like all this control gives the best of all worlds, the result is simply that it is its own machine with its own quirks just like the rest. In the end, I think that makes it great for what it is, but perhaps less than what it promises to be.
The more I see/read feedback from actual users the more I believe that this machine is basically a jack-of-all-trades kind of machine, but sadly master of none.
@@googlereviewer2743 that was exactly my experience after 3 years of owning it. It is good for sure, but most of the features are useless (not eventually used) in the real world. So, why bother?
Bought a Decent three years ago and wouldn’t trade it for any other. If I ever get bored of a profile, someone in the community has some new funky ideas to test. It’s a machine for continuous exploration.
I have drank espresso from the decent for 4 years. For 48 months I've tried over 100 beans and they all require something a little different profile or adjustment to bring out the best. Something a lever machine or literally every other machine couldn't hope to achieve. Occasionally software bugs sure, but I've had other espresso machines have weird behavior too. Decent is great still :)
@@WeBuild4Life might want to check out the Meticulous, it seems like it might be a good combination of lever mechanics and Decent tweaking and repeatability!
@@madison4698 I steam milk daily though
@@WeBuild4Life then why do shops run old school LA MRZCO
@@MrTacoma because the goal there isn’t to make the best shot of espresso, but hundreds every day.
Hey Lance, you should cover the Gaggiuino. They have a PCB kit you can buy now that makes installation much easier. It would be interesting to see the comparison to the Decent at a fraction of the price.
I've had my DE1Pro for almost 9 months now, looking forward to watching this.
I've encountered so many software bugs (Bluetooth disconnections, visualiser upload failures, skip first step) that a simpler machine is tempting. However, nothing else will give me the combo of small footprint, quick heat up time, awesome community of people making new and interesting profiles, and data storage (via visualiser).
I think I'd buy a decent again right now, but if i had more space and willingness to wait for a longer heat up, a LR24 would be very tempting. I'd miss fun profiles like ExDos though.
Turn off nightly updates, unless you want to be a beta tester. Same as with any sw, wait for a stable release or be prepared for some issues.
I'm on the stable release, these bugs are all common on stable.
“I’m so glad you enjoyed the dinner we prepared for you my friends! Unfortunately, due to multiple software glitches we will not be having the promised espresso this evening.”
I’ve got the decent homebridge plugin running so I can turn it on with Siri or Apple HomeKit. Wake up, turn on espresso machine, get out of bed, shuffle around and by the time I’m down stairs and infront of the machine it’s ready for me.
Oh, just a slight correction, the limit on pre-infusion on that default pressure profile editor isn't a pressure limit for the pre-infusion, it's a "move on at" value. So it would move to the rise and hold step at 0.6 bar, not maintain it for that whole time.
Correct. Hard to keep everything straight when filming. Good catch.
😂 1 million thanks for the guy who plugged back the tablet. I couldn't stop looking at the cable since you unplugged it and I was like
- PLUG THE DAMN CABLE!!!
Nice vid Lance 👏 btw, imo the tea portafilter is a highly underrated accessory. It brews tea so much better than the normal dose and steep in hot water. It's gotten me and my partner into and excited about teas
Yep, I don't make tea any other way anymore.
Really enjoyed the review! It was very fair, and quite on point with most of the observations, although I don't encounter the inconsistency you mentioned as a result of the machine. I pull max 5-10 shots a day as a home user.
I've been a decent owner for almost 9 months now, and the decent community has taught me so much about coffee (not just how to make it better in many different ways) that I feel like I've been into this hobby for years. This machine helps the user understand the science behind espresso and coffee as much as the art and the cup. I cannot be happier with my purchase and would buy it again if faced a choice today.
Excellent review update! I really like how their approach to iterating and providing upgrades to current customers. I think as someone looking for something with flow profiling and likes nerding out on coffee this is an excellent machine and with the iterative process makes it easy to keep it current without replacing the machine completely.
Why is the shot inconsistency not an issue for home baristas? Did you incur that due to the very high temperature / steam build up as a result of pulling the ~100 shots, or because you were experimenting with high temperatures and a home barista won’t? This comment will likely pause many considering purchasing so we would love to hear more from you!
For all those following the comments, I’ve decided to purchase despite this. I don’t think there is enough evidence here that suggests decent machines have a problem with shot consistency..
If you're based out of India, let me know if you'd like to be a part of the Indian decent owners group. I'll add you in.
@@pulakbhatnagar I’m not but cool to know there is a India focused group. I do visit often if that counts haha.
Lance can you dress up as one of the members of KISS for Halloween?
This needs to happen
Thanks for the laugh
And also Hugo
Geezer Butler from Black Sabbath
No weird al?
I too have the Decent. I also experience the crazy making inconsistencies and I too put it down to my puck prep even though I M very confident and consistent.
Thank goodness it’s not just me and that a world class barista also shares this annoyance.
Thats kinda suspicious though no?
Isn't that a huge issue after forking over 4k?
I've had a DE1Pro for almost 2 years now and this I can say with confidence: It makes impossible things possible and simple things complicated.
I notice inconsistency in my shots too! Thought I just sucked at puck prep. I always give my wife the better looking shot haha
Two used in production at Naomi Joe Coffee in Tacoma, Washington’s 7 Seas Brewery. Little slice of magic!
I’ve been meaning to check this out, thanks for the reminder 😎
Things like this make me appreciate my Flair. I wouldn't have enough patience to debug this thing without the caffeine I'd be trying to get from it 🤣
That’s the biggest thing, I’ve got a LMLM and I appreciate the stability, it’s consistent and very good at it. The last thing I want to do is mess around with a tablet when I wake up lol.
@@Cancer484you don't have to mess with the tablet. You pick a profile and it just works.
We typically use a slightly modded default profile for cafe shots. The shot times vary 1-4 seconds, which we usually attribute to puck prep. See a slightly shorter shot time, wdt better next shot and it is usually fine. The biggest issue we see is when we go hit a new bag of beans in the hopper, even though its all the "same" roast from the same bean. Overall, the consistency is remarkable.
Where’s this cafe!? 😮
@@gandkaidos Hazard, KY!
@@StephenProsserHCC I have a reason to visit KY now!
@StephenProsserHCC Do you guys use the XXL version in your cafe? I just purchased the XL for a coffee cart, and am having thoughts of returning it (mainly because of the slow steam/not steaming at the same time as pulling a shot) What are your thoughts on this?
@@travisdip we use 2 XXLs and 1 XXXL (prototype). The XXXL steams ~10 seconds faster than the XXL. We mainly pull shots on the xxls and steam on the xxxl.
Good to see a Kafatek on the counter. Great review/update.! I love my Decent overall.
Would you consider doing a brief review on a Decent equipped with all of the big aftermarket upgrades? They're a huge aspect of the corner of the Decent community focused on achieving perfection. Just as you mention the Gaggia kit, there have been parallel strides made by those modding/upgrading Decent machines (e.g., Decent's own 3-hole steam wand tip, silicone gasket, and water intake filter; or SWD's group head water diffuser block and spacer). Personally, I've experienced huge gains in consistency and workflow with these modifications. Possibly the biggest part of owning a Decent is the ongoing feedback loop between the company and its product's users. How many other espresso machine manufacturers offer continuous iterative upgrades with backward compatibility for existing users to incorporate in their own machines?
The issue is then you're at a massive price for the machine. Those aftermarket pieces from sworks aren't cheap ha!
@@LanceHedrick That may be so, but a bit more marginal relative to the upfront cost of the machine. 😅
Nice review... I also don't have the inconsistency you mention. I only update once in two months or so... and that I do in the evening when I'm not having coffee. I also like the machine gun pump... because when I hear how varied the intermittency is, I know it's doing something clever! Oh, I upgraded my tablet to a samsung, and when I'm working in the kitchen I watch youtube/netflix/whatever, and use my moveable tablet to keep me entertained while making curry or sourdough!
Great video Lance! Would you consider doing a video on which profiles you like the best on the Decent and for which types of coffees? Or posting that info sometime?
I thought for sure the "elephant in the room" section would be that this machine was selling for about $1000 and now sells for $4000. Sure, it was on kickstarter and there was risk associated with that, and sure inflation has been bad, but quadrupling the price is pretty hard to swallow.
I do have a lot of reboots and update issues with software. I have done a lot of physical updates to reduce the puck head space. I have noticed some shot inconsistencies and just thought it was my Niche grinder. It doesn't always happen though. I think I should calibrate my machine which I have not done.
Worked as a manager at an Italian restaurant where we had a La Marzocco and I used to run the coffee bar. Very cool to learn cause it wasn’t my money lmao. Had a janky old nespresso machine for years but finally upgrading my home bar. Was eyeing a decent since the summer and glad to see there are some updated thoughts on it. Now that I’ve gotten a bunch of fat reimbursements for business trips and I’ve finished buying holiday gifts it is time.
I love me some tech, unnecessary tech problems, and diy mods so this things looking like a dream… I mean minus being like $4000 but hey I’ve done worse… no wait nope, no this is probably the most I’ve spent on a single hobby non vehicle.
😂😂😂😂😂 at your impression of the pump 🤣🤣 like a super chunky duck running 😂😂
I just got a decent 1.44 last month. Upgraded from a Rocket and it’s been really great to be able to replicate the e61 profile while at the same time being able to pull high EY% shots like the blooming espresso - which is something I’ve never had the privilege of experiencing at home. Although I will say it can all get really overwhelming really fast 😂
Same here! Did you get a smart scale for it?
@@gandkaidos I’m using the lunar that I already had with Euan’s drip tray.
Shout out to Dalla Corte Mina! No one talks about it but I think it's a marvelous machine with dynamic flow control.
it sort of has flow control. I've played on one and have one on the way. I'll show what I mean shortly.
yeah sure, calibrate it and then measure on a scale some calibration points such as 3-5-6g/s you will see the calibrations are not accurate, so it sucks.
The Decent is passé. You’re nothing in today’s incredibly competitive home espresso world if you don’t have the $5900 Linea Micra, of course with the $1600 flow control addition. You also must have one of the coveted grinders (such as the $2500 Kafetek), with $800 custom burrs. Add in the $400 Weber Unibasket and the $425 Moonraker WDT tool, along with the most professional knockbox… oh, and I forgot the mag-pulse anti static tool to add to the grinder. Nope, you have no business trying to make a small cup of black coffee at home unless you can muster the $14,000.00 entry fee
Hahahahahaha zinger
Mmmm…. $30 Moka Pot…😂
…Turkish coffee…😂😂
i had very view inconsistent shots. After switching to the new group head parts my shots are shot on. Give it a try!
It has nothing to do with new group head parts. I've got them and have had them for a while. It's definitely a pump issue or a conroller issue.
Plus, how often do you pull one hundred shots? Ha!
As I said, probably not a big deal for normal users
I just bought a DE1XL and I frequently see big temperature differences in the first 4-6 seconds (the start of the pre-infusion phase) shot-to-shot. I wonder how much this might influence shot consistency given that higher temperatures generally lead to faster flowing shots. Typically I see mix temperature dips immediately to around 5C below the goal temperature, but recovers in a second or so. The basket temperature probe typically takes 5-6 seconds to come up from the dip though. Various people suggest that this is due to the temperature of the coffee, but if you run the same profile without a portafilter then you see the exact same thing still happening, so I don't buy this explanation at all. (All of this is with the standard Default profile, so nothing fancy to explain it.) It would be very interesting to see more analysis on the impact of those first few seconds of flow temperature on the shot if you have the right tools to do so. I think it would be interesting both in the context of the Decent but also what it means for other machines.
After more experimenting, I've found the first shot of the day often drops by about 5C for the first few seconds. The 2nd shot of the day often drops by about 15C for the first few seconds. (This is with the Default profile.) By the time the reported temperature recovers to within 1C of the target temperature, 25% of the water for the entire shot has been dispensed. This feels like it might be a big deal for a machine that prides itself on temperature accuracy and given how important temperature is for espresso extraction?
As far as inconsistency goes, I think it has something to do with temperature, I remember reading a baristahuscle article on it. On my old sage, I found that my temperature would be wildly different for each shot and my pulls would vary by as much as 11 seconds, but if I waited and restarted the machine, it would be within a second.
I believe this might be because the decent doesn't fully heat up the portafilter because of the whole temperature profiling thing. Maybe pulling shots the "budget machine" way where you run a few blank shots through the portafilter to heat it up, it would fix the issue.
I love your reviews btw! They're super in depth and informative.
I have done scace testing. The temp stability is insanely good once the PF is heated.thanks for the kind words!
The Decent has a heater for the portafilter. And as Lance stated, temperature is very consistent on the Decent. Consistent, not just stable, because you can choose a stable or fluctuating temperature
@@LanceHedrick the question of consistency is *huge* for a lot of home enthusiasts, especially the ones interested in Decent. If I use the same recipe two days in a row it is very important for me to get a nearly identical result, otherwise I don't know what I'm doing i.e. I don't know how the recipe is affecting the taste. Consistency is key when chasing god shots i.e. trying to replicate them :)
Oh I'm aware haha. I've pulled not a few espressos at home on not a few machines. The consistency was not a normal thing hence my not noticing it on the newer one. I haven't done a 100 shot test on this new one. It is consistent enough as I clearly stated in the video for normal usage
Baskets has very little contact area with a bottomless pf so it only takes a few seconds to heat up. I think focusing on consistency in shot time on the Decent is a red herring as the servo feedback is correcting the flow, pressure and temp. It's no wonder that a small low workload machine isn't as thermally stable as a semi professional unit, but it corrects for that.
Hi Lance
In regards to the Dynamic Thermal Control, I believe, but could very well be wrong, there is another machine on the market that does that: The Heylo Espresso Machine. Then again, could be wrong. :)
Thanks for your interesting videos!
Kind regards from Denmark
This guy is a legend in the adult movie industry.
😂😂😂
I think that variation is due to vibe pump regulating the pressure with OPV set to 12bar.
I feel like it could never match consistency of hard 9 bar OPV bleed with consistent pumping VS vibe pump pulsating to hit target pressure.
Hi Lance, I think it's worth mentioning the latest DE1 has just seen a big price drop, especially for overseas buyers. Combination of good exchange rate and Decent no longer applying a 15% shipping uplift. As an example UK prices have dropped about £800-900. Significant.
I purposefully don't mention pricing because it varies so much globally. And I'm not a sales person ha!
Intrigued people are a Google away from finding it lol
Super excited for that gaggia mod! I just ordered the PCB off of the discord and am looking forward to getting it up and running pretty soon here!
You may want to know that Dalla corte Mina has implemented flow control (not pressure ) for a long time . Have you ever had the chance to look at and review it?
It sorta does. Not really true flow control. I have one on the way. But have used at expos
i think Rancillio came out with an espresso machine that was capable of temperature profiling. i forget the name of it but i believe they debuted it at one of the Seattle sca (maybe even scaa) conventions. i think it was a commercial machine however.
Enjoyed the update, especially the pump imitation, must give you bad dreams.
All of these fancy new machines just make me glad I bought the Cafelat Robot a year ago. I can do all the pressure and flow profiles I want and there is definitely something to be said about the fact that you can actually feel how the coffee puck reacts to your manual pressure, unlike with all these more expensive automatic machines. I generally stick to 2 bar pre-infusion + 1g/s yield flow, and adjusting the pressure manually to achieve that doesn't require fiddling with a screen or downloading a script to do it. As a data scientist, I appreciate all the data an automatic machine like the decent can collect but there's a point at which you lose touch with what's actually happening to your coffee when all you see is a line on a graph, rather than experience it yourself with your hands. And I know that my robot will last multiple generations while these machines will just end up as e-waste once software updates stop and they become attack vectors for hackers.
Machines all hit the buffers when the power goes down…..🤔
that new model is so nice. I feel like I should upgrade now lol.
I thought the selling point of the de1 was its consistency and control. Are there machines with more reliability?
Very excited to hear about the Gagguino part! Actually discovered it a few days ago and will definitely get into that!
Great review, I want one, if I could justify it to sit close to my Linea Mini. My only nit: dude, when you slurp the coffee, I need to turn the volume off :)
5:18 I think it was Vincent Politzer whom first created the paddle and then Euan followed his steps.
Good call!
That’s right, Vincent designed the Group Head Paddle - I bought mine from him - great guy 👍 sorry for the mix up but thanks for the shoutout on the drip tray covers.
Thanks! I crave tactile UI/UX, and the Synesso MVP Hydra style paddle is a big improvement. Can't imagine using a DE1 without it now. I'm not currently selling them, though I may open-source a hardwired version at some point if I have time to actually finish it. Too many projects!
Super excited to watch this. Planning on getting a White Pro here in the next couple of months.
I prefer the tactile feel and “ art” of pulling each shot on my Lelit Bianca. But I am an analog guy living in a digital world. Heck, I just bought a new sports car with a standard transmission even though an automatic is faster. 😂
I’m kinda like you but I still prefer the decent to a traditional machine somewhat because the of the modding upgrading and community behind it somewhat because of the modularity of the profiles in a automatic
Also it’s funny to say but Manuel transmissions are banned in a lot of drag-racing classes because there a unfair advantage to make the car go faster you could absolutely make your car faster than the automatic with some training and shifter modifications
Sounds like you want a lever
Wife just walked in, asked what I was watching and her feedback was " he has lovely hair"
This is the only comment that matters
“We are gonna get inundated with Lance!” 😅😂🤣
Haha the validation I needed for my lm micra purchase over decent
You can create Micra profile on the Decent and run that profile all day long until you want something else. With the Micra, you are limited to what the Micra can do. And if that's all you want it's a decent assumption you don't need the Decent.
It's a huge issue the lack of consistency . I was not expecting this from Decent. I was thinking to buy one.
Great insight as always. Being able to temperature profile shots could offer additional control flavor profiles in the espresso world! Looking forward to future content on temperature profiling in both pour-over and espresso
I hope to one day own this machine. It will be my first and my last. I love the tea portafilter.
Fantastic video. if I didnt already own one I would be sold after watching this
Eagerly awaiting that Gaggiuino video! That looks super interesting
Lance did you see Black Colour mode??? Fxxing bowling ball handle..... Also 220v 60hz country Not enough pump power although pressuer can't make 9bar just limit 6bar..... john ignore this problem
will you talk about the sanremo you? thank you
can you please post names and or links to the upcoming machines you mentioned?
I will always watch. Video about the decent. Still my dream machine 😊
I hope the Sanremo You goes down a similar route though, improving the app and utilizing things like Visualizer to build a community and increase customization.
I would love this machine but with a rotary pump - the day they have such a machine i will buy it.
Or just a quieter / muffled pump 🙉
Rotary pump is incapable of the 10th of a second changes required.
First thought was "Decent" might not be a great brand name if you want to be a premium product.
Just me? 😅
You should make a video with a overview of machines inspired in the Decent-inspired category it was really difficult to catch all the names you gave in 2 minutes
Can you write out the list of similar machines? It would be nice to look into them.
thanks for sharing the elephant in the room. I'll keep looking for the expresso machine for me.
Love your content Lance, but what’s with the Ron Jeremy look?
The community is the biggest selling point. Real maker community and lots of tinkering
I know all this ability to control extractions makes different espresso, but does this endless amount of options make better espresso?
Decent Espresso is the best. Short review.
Ha! It's good. Hardly the best. Imo.
Nothin like watching Lance videos about espresso even though I don’t own a machine nothin like it.
And this is why youre the goat.
Hey Lance… how about some first thoughts on that machine immediately to your left? Of course we will need the full review when you’re ready..
Id just like to know how it went from a predicted launch price of $1,000 to it's current price of $3,700
Hahaha you'd have to ask them 😅😅😅
The Max2 in the background 😯
Love my decent and its paired with a Kafatek Flat Max 2 SLM tasty shots daily
Hey Lance when you make the gaggiunino can you compare it to the decent?
CANT WAIT TO SEE YOUR GAGGIUNIO VIDEO!!!
🙌 Hail Zer0-bit and the mighty Gaggiuino 🙌
Can't wait to see how you like it if you ever get to finishing it, man!
just the single boiler setup with an induction steamer is something i want to see someone copy!
5:58 I believe some commercial Rancilio machines can do temperature profiling
For me coffee machines have two roles... one to make great coffee and two ... to look great and have a nice user experience. The latter for me is an e61 style or traditional looking machine. I would love the technology in this but without the looks and screen etc. Give me a Profitect 400 Pro look or ECM Mechanicka and add in the modern group head and controls etc underneath the skin and I'll be happy
The inconsistency sounds terrible omg
Good follow up review Lance! I have had mine now for 2 years and love it. However from that stand point, I still do not recommend for the average espresso lover. This is for those of us that really want to play with profiles.
What do you recommend for the espresso lover who wants to pull CONSISTENT good shots without needing a magic touch. Just basic good puck prep and go!
@@robertusga My opinion, by no means am I a professional, this is based on mine and friends experience: Gagia Classic Pro w/PID or Rocket Appartamento. Both are opposite end of spectrum for price and build quality but both have been tried and true to us. No bullshit, they work. Good puck prep and go. None of us have ever said we hate them either. Just my thoughts.
Btw, your standart link isn't hyperlinked which you may cause you to lose out on clicks!
What was the machine you mentioned in the intro - the "Caf Mesino"- "Machine from AliExpress with a tablet on it"?
I have the same question, never heard about that project
im sooo keen to see how you rate the Gaggiuino, i have been slowly gathering all the parts to get it done myself.
But how does this compare to the Breville Lance Hedrick special? Still waiting on that model to come to market...
Off topic, but I'd like to see home roaster machines with similar profile sharing capabilities. Maybe we could build a DIY version, similar to gagguino, based on a cheap air roaster sold on Ali
Kaffeelogic
Enjoyed this video and I ultimately decided to finally buy one.
Have you had any problem connecting the Acaia lunar to the DE1 app. You seemed to be using ‘stop at weight’ without any difficulties. Any tricks or tips for successfully connecting DE1 with the Lunar ?
9 months later. Did you buy one? Do you recommend it?
You say the machine is inconsistent in shot time, but does it taste inconsistent?
I think focusing on consistency in shot time on the Decent is a red herring as the servo feedback is correcting the flow, pressure and temp. As you say it's a small flash boiler so it's much less thermally stable as the La Marzocco, but in principle it should correct for that in the end result.
what i said, if you listened carefully, is when I pulled a great number of shots, it was inconsistent and the data had to be thrown out. I immediately said this issue likely would not affect home users. cheers
And yes. The 18s shots vs the 28s shots tasted incredibly different.
@@LanceHedrick it varies over 50%? Wow, that's really bad regardless what type of user you are.
Do all these variables actually produce tangible benefits? One thing is having it, another is whether its any good. For example is there a tangible positive differnce to shots with temp variation? It must be really hard to debug so many variables. Given the choice I’d take a Micra any day because as someone in IT already I dont wanna patch my coffee machine.
I don't even enjoy flat 9 bar espresso most of the time. The window for tasty is so miniscule. If going for a simple machine, do a spring lever.
@@LanceHedrickmoving from flat 9 bars to lowering pressure profiles was a game changer for me. Dark Kenyan roasts lost the bitterness and became beautifully sweet.
@@LanceHedrick ive read of people who set conventional machines to 6 bar to get more modern shots. Lever type shots do sound meaningfully different and better to some. Still waiting for the perfect machine with integrated steamer.
@@LanceHedrick Are there machines around or under $2000 that can do the type of espresso you enjoy easily and repeatably without modding or micromanaging the machine with manual flow control and such? I just want a machine that can do any roast level reasonably well, including lights roasts, and can do it simply and repeatably. Been considering machines like Profitec Move, Ascaso Steel Duo PID, and Breville Dual Boiler, but don't want to buy a $1500-$2000 machine only to discover that they can only brew mediocre light roast espresso due to not enough control.
I've had a chance to use this toy for about 3 weeks, in the end, I decided to return it, as I just couldn't get used to the software and strange sounds that made my espresso making routine less enjoyable.
Your the cool skateboarder kid of the coffee world ❤
Tnx for that! You’re great!
Amazing video!
But when are we playing with the YOU😊
Would like to have heard something about steaming. Otherwise, yes, I have one and yes. To all that.
You mention back to back shots are all over the place. I just purchased a Decent XL for a coffee cart setup, and I'm wondering if you think that the inconsistency will be a problem in a commercial setting?
I seem to have more trouble dialing in on this machine too, could that be from the inconsistency?